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Guffwatch

Posted on March 15, 2013 by

We have to go out this afternoon so we’ll make this quick. Blah blah too poor blah blah no jobs blah blah individual smear blah blah fascist state blah blah invaded by Belgium or something blah blah. Frankly we wouldn’t even bother clicking the links if we were you. If you miss them today, the same stories – or very slight variations on them – will be back in the Scottish media tomorrow, and the day after that, and the day after that, and the day after that, and all the days after that all the way to autumn 2014.

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    62 to “Guffwatch”

    1. Ghengis says:

      LOL .. our dying press. Die already! ūüôā I suppose it keeps Gordon Brewer in bullshit.

    2. Doug Daniel says:

      Frankly we wouldn’t even bother clicking the links if we were you.
       
      I have taken your advice.

    3. Yesitis says:

      The white noise splatterfud brigade.
       
      Chinese water torture, but with buckets of pish hurled daily in your general direction, courtesy of the No campaign`s little helpers in the media.
      I wonder what the levels of FUD will be like by next year?  The three Hs: Hysteria! Hysteria! Hysteria!
      Well, it`s like that now, I guess. Och well, eh. I`ll put the kettle on ūüôā
       

    4. Ghengis says:

      Having said the above, in reality I’d prefer they just stopped being so biased.¬†
      It occurs to me that the Scotsman newspaper might keel over dead just prior to the indyref. At which point the rest of the media will start screaming, look what Alex Salmond’s Leveson legislation did!
       

    5. Doug Daniel says:

      Ghengis – The outrage on Twitter from Tom Gordon, Kenny Farquharson, Tory press officers and the likes is not only absolutely hilarious, it also suggests the report has gotten things bang on. I don’t think they realise how much they sound like bankers being told to stop paying themselves massive bonuses.
       
      “Oh no! Our crumbling empire! We’re going to have to start behaving ourselves now!”

    6. ianbrotherhood says:

      Try this link for a wee break – food for thought, and none of the usual faces in sight…well, not many…
       
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Allegory_of_Good_and_Bad_Government

    7. Dee says:

      Can we take any of these daily newspapers to court for lying continiously to the scottish public…

    8. JuanBonnets says:

      Sort of O/T – talking about watching guff, check out First Minister’s Questions from yesterday.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmBUZdhs07A

      Lamont and Davidson are a disgrace. Although their desperate negativity is also becoming hilarious, so it’s not all bad.

    9. dmw42 says:

      Expect ‘absolute outrage’ from Davidson, Rennie and Whitsherface in tomorrows papers about McCluskey’s report. More of the ‘we need a UK wide system… blah, blah, blah”. Even though press regulation is probably the only thing the Westminster parties don’t agree on.
       
      I don’t expect to see any commentary from the BBC on McCluskey stating that public broadcasters such as the BBC have a ‘statutory duty to be impartial‘. Ha, as if.

      Worth noting though if implemented as is, it could impact on posts on this site!

    10. Hermione says:

      “the same stories ‚Äď or very slight variations on them ‚Äď will be back in the Scottish media tomorrow, and the day after that, and the day after that, and the day after that, and all the days after that all the way to autumn 2014”
       
      Yes indeed. Pity you’ve never yet managed to come up with a counter to any of these very valid points, isn’t it?

    11. Adrian B says:

      Link Supplied from Sneekyboy on Twitter
       
      MUST READ
       
      Sometimes I wish Conservative cabinet ministers would couch their arguments in favour of the Union in terms of principle, not process or drab accountancy. Philip Hammond, the unimpressive Secretary of State for Defence, is the latest minister to warn that some of the perfectly solvable problems that are an inescapable feature of unwinding the United Kingdom are in fact so intractable that it’s a fool’s mission to even think about resolving them.
      http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/alex-massie/2013/03/nemo-me-impune-lacessit-defending-an-independent-scotland/
       

      Not that defence issues will determine the outcome of the referendum. Nevertheless it is plainly silly to pretend that an independent Scotland would somehow be defenceless. The problem with these¬†‚Äúprocess‚Ä̬†oriented unionist arguments is that, in the end, they generally rest upon the proposition that Scotland must be an unusually¬†fusionless¬†or otherwise incompetent place. This would be depressing if it were true but, since one suspects it is not true, it is simply vexing.
       

    12. FreddieThreepwood says:

      Not in the same league, I know, and hardly a) surprising or b) all that important, but I just wanted it recorded that we notice these things – check out the Record’s front page splash on Eric Joyce’s latest drunken brawl. Not a single mention of what party he represents.
      Who wants to have a stab at what that page would look like if it was an SNP MP involved?

    13. muttley79 says:

      Anti-independence stories have been around for decades in the Unionist media in Scotland.  You just need to cite the one about Shetland remaining in the UK, and taking all the oil (supposedly) as a prime example.  Only the most die hard Unionists, such as Hermione, thinks Scotland will be invaded if we vote for independence (and such like).  Even they cannot produce the much promised positive case for the Union.  It seems to involve throwing as much bile at the SNP, and anyone else who supports independence, as possible.  Their negativity about Scotland is astonishing.  They really seem to believe that Scotland is too poor, too small and too stupid, and is uniquely incapable of running its own affairs.  They will never admit this though.  Their transparent lack of confidence in Scotland is hardly a ringing endorsement of what the Union has done to Scottish self confidence either.     

    14. cath says:

      Radio Clyde has a similar bias in that it now has pretty much a fixed format.
       
      1. Story – however petty or nonsense – that knocks “the Scottish government” for something the Labour party has cooked up.
      2. Story about how some policy like welfare that “the government” has brought in is hammering people, usually with a comment from a Labour MP.

    15. Adrian B says:

      Who Benefits from Westminster rule?
       
      https://twitter.com/YesScotland/status/312616187743830016/photo/1
       
       

    16. Hermione says:

      Threepwood:
       
      “Not a single mention of what party he represents.”
       
      Well, which party does the Galloping Major “represent”?
       
      Careful now. Can’t have anyone making a fool of themselves in public.

    17. Fergie says:

      ” Their transparent lack of confidence in Scotland is hardly a ringing endorsement of what the Union has done to Scottish self confidence either. ”
       
      I don’t think Hermione is either Scottish or based in Scotland. So her disdain of us is nothing to do with any kind of cringe.

    18. Adrian B says:

      Rev posts ‘Guffwatch’ and up pops Hermione – Hilarious Irony

    19. Jiggsbro says:

      Not a single mention of what party he represents
       
      Perhaps because he doesn’t represent a party. He’s an independent.

    20. cath says:

      An independent who was elected as a Labour MP though.

    21. Jiggsbro says:

      But an independent now, representing no party.

    22. Juteman says:

      @Hermione.
      I can’t decide wether to feel sorry for you, laugh at you, or despise you.
      Do you actually have a shred of common decency in you?

    23. Yesitis says:

      @Juteman
      “Do you actually have a shred of common decency in you?”
      Yes, but it was found to contain horse DNA.

    24. FreddieThreepwood says:

      Can I repeat the advice of others on this site re the trolls. Ignore them.
       
      Re Joyce – the MIB memory eraser deployed by Labour may work on the likes of the Record and the BBC (took them to the end of their report before mentioning he was elected a Labour MP) but it doesn’t with everyone. Same question applies nevertheless – how many ‘nationalist’s or ‘SNP’s or ‘Salmond’s embarrassment’s or ‘blows to separation cause’s would there have been in the headline and first two pars if the hapless Joyce had been an SNP MP?

    25. scottish_skier says:

      @Adrain
      Edinburgh biggest contributor per person to UK economy
      http://local.stv.tv/edinburgh/31886-edinburgh-biggest-contributor-per-person-to-uk-economy/

    26. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Yes indeed. Pity you‚Äôve never yet managed to come up with a counter to any of these very valid points, isn‚Äôt it?”

      We’re coming up on 1000 posts now, every one backing up its assertions with facts, sourced and linked. Even Tories like yourself – see the Alex Massie blog linked elsewhere – acknowledge that Hammond’s talking ridiculous bollocks. So such a petty, unimaginative, dishonest little snipe can only be aimed at provoking disruption, not discussion. Shall we call that an official warning? Yes, let’s. You’re boring me.

    27. scottish_skier says:

      @Freddie
      Trolls are intelligent and adept at winding people up. Not noticed any on WoS.

    28. muttley79 says:

      @Juteman
       
      Hermione first post on here was about social justice (I thought it was someone who was from Labour’s Red Paper¬†Collective as that was the thread he/she first posted on).¬† However, this assumption was somewhat blasted by semtex when Hermione pronounced that apparently “capitalism is doing fine.”¬† Therefore, despite the largest financial crash in the Western world since the 1930s, and the continuingly insane austerity policies, Hermione appeared to be only concerned with how well his/her portfolio was doing.¬† Not a¬†great advocate¬†for BT eh…

    29. Iain says:

      @FreddieThreepwood
       
      ‘how many ‚Äėnationalist‚Äôs or ‚ÄėSNP‚Äôs or ‚ÄėSalmond‚Äôs embarrassment‚Äôs or ‚Äėblows to separation cause‚Äôs would there have been in the headline and first two pars if the hapless Joyce had been an SNP MP?’
       
      Or if it had been John Finnie or Jean Urquhart or Bill Walker or Jim Sillars etc, etc?

    30. Jiggsbro says:

      how many ‚Äėnationalist‚Äôs or ‚ÄėSNP‚Äôs or ‚ÄėSalmond‚Äôs embarrassment‚Äôs or ‚Äėblows to separation cause‚Äôs would there have been in the headline and first two pars if the hapless Joyce had been an SNP MP?

      Three. One in the Sun, one in Exchange and Mart and one on Ebay (reserve not met). Plus a bonus one in the Guardian which calls him a Nutritionist MP.

       
      It’s fun, this Fantasy Bias game.¬† I thought there was enough genuine bias to keep people outraged, but the real stuff generates nowhere near the right levels of self-satisfied, self-righteous indignation. This is much better. And this pretendy stuff is sure to convince those who don’t think the media is biased. Next time someone says the BBC is impartial, I’ll point them to a video I’m imagining on Youtube, in which John Humphrey’s orders Radio 4 listeners to burn Saltires. That should convince them (I’m paranoid).

    31. molly says:

      Hermione,does Falkirks longest serving Labour Councillor  still work for Mr Joyce in an independently Labour kind of way ?

    32. ianbrotherhood says:

      I’m offering Evens that Hermione will try to get sent-off before midnight.¬†
      If you want to double it up with a bawbag-eyed Joyce announcing his withdrawal from public life before tomorrow lunchtime, 3-1.
      You’ll not get that at Paddy Power.

    33. kininvie says:

      I’ve been searching for many a long month for someone who consistently puts the unionist case forward relatively dispassionately and without scaremongering.¬† I’ve come to the conclusion that there’s no one in the MSM and precious few, if any, on Twitter. In the blogosphere? One only, so far as I can tell. http://effiedeans.blogspot.co.uk/ Give her a read; see what you think.

    34. Yesitis says:

      @kininvie
      Oh yeah, oor Effie.
      I`m sorry, but she lost me at
      “After studying in Edinburgh, Cambridge, Copenhagen and Nizhny Novgorod, Effie returned home to rural Aberdeenshire, where she reads Dostoevsky in Russian and finds unionist inspiration in the works of Walter Scott”

    35. Morag says:

      Pretentious?  Moi?

    36. Marian says:

      I sincerely trust that the Scots government does not chicken out of applying Lord McCluskey’s panel’s recommendation’s in full as soon as possible just because of the rhetoric of a few hysterical politicians who would oppose the introduction of the wheel if the Scots government had thought of it first.

      We must fight to ensure there is absolutely no dilution of Lord McCluskey’s recommendation’s because there is too much at stake here for the thousands of people like Kate and Gerry McCann whose lives have been made a misery and frequently ruined by a British MSM that thought they could do whatever they liked because they were the puppet masters of the last and the present Westminster governments.

      I have to say that Lord McCluskey’s recommendation’s don’t go far enough for me as I would very much like to see financial penalties added to the recommendation’s when they go before Holyrood in the not too distant future.

    37. Indion says:

      kininvie @ 8:12pm
      Effie – the ‘Lily from St Leonards’, therein dressed in top to toe brown – got her pre-uni ‘education’¬†from the wrong side of examined history’s¬†tracks in our patron saint’s town. And,¬†living in a past that never was what it was made out to be, still seems to have no difficulty questioning¬†the British¬†nationalist form of propoganda.¬†¬†Of what little¬†exists, her reasoning gives semantics a good name¬†and¬†clearly¬†exhibits a blissful ignorance of its¬†fully-clothed Orwellian streak leaving her nakedly exposed.
      Given the paucity of her publication’s attracting comment¬†on¬†day’s empty of other than her own dissembling, it’s perhaps best to leave the likes of Hermione and Effie to¬†her/their¬†own transparent rambling devices.

    38. kininvie says:

      @yesitis @morag @indion Attacking someone for their background rather than their arguments is not a good start. We could all do that. Dismissing said arguments as ‘Transparent rambling devices’ and thus feeling good about it is scarcely better. This site (I hope) is not some kind of mutual back-slapping club where everyone on the other side is dismissed with a sneer – though I sometimes worry it is beginning to look just like that. We have a lot of people to persuade – we are not going to do that by going around in little circles saying that we are automatically right, and so, by definition, everyone else is a misguided right-winger from ‘the wrong side of the tracks’

    39. ianbrotherhood says:

      Is Effie Deans a real person? Or, at any rate, more ‘real’ than Hermione?
      I’ll wager neither of them are as real as Brian Taylor. He was in Dundee today on his quest for truth. I didn’t catch the start, don’t know what the line-up was, but ’twas splendid entertainment. I spent a very pleasant forty minutes or so listening to it while shampooing and blow-drying my budgie.
      There was a fair bit of heckling too – this roadshow is gathering pace, and passion, and a fair smattering of noisy nutters. God only knows what it’ll be like a year from now. Could get very tasty. Taylor will need a team of minders and have to travel incognito between venues where he’s least expected. (He may even require the services of a double – if anyone knows a Brian Taylor doppleganger, give them the nod that a good gig could be in the offing.)
      Keep it up Brian!

    40. Yesitis says:

      @kininvie
      I`ve read a few of Effie`s blog articles and, frankly, she speaks nonsense (I had to restrain myself there). I know we have a lot of people to persuade of the merits in voting Yes, but I will not lower myself to outright arse licking of someone who`s opinions, to be frank, I find distasteful and offensive.
       

    41. kininvie says:

      @yesitis No one suggested arse licking, so far as I am aware. So, if you don’t like my suggestion, can you recommend a pro-union source that puts forward the case more dispassionately/better? There’s a clear reason for asking: If you look at the vox pop (especially 16/17 yr olds this week) there’s a demand for information. I take that to mean unbiased. Now, I’d dearly like to put out a leaflet or some such containing the best places to visit online. I can come up with half a dozen on the Indy side that are reasonable in their arguments, but damned if I can find anything on the pro-Union side. But if I just stick out one-sided stuff – well, Im obviously biased. So what do I put forward?

    42. Jiggsbro says:

      if anyone knows a Brian Taylor doppleganger, give them the nod that a good gig could be in the offing
       
      If I knew a Brian Taylor doppelganger, I’d give them the nod that a good pie could be in the offing.

    43. Yesitis says:

      @kininvie
       
      I`m sorry if I came across as aggressive. I see what you are trying to do, and it is a good idea. But I honestly don`t know any decent pro-union sources you could use which aren`t  so biased as to be insulting. I find it telling that you already have half a dozen reasonable pro-independence sites, but are struggling to find any decent pro-union sites.
       
      I`m going to suggest (I know, really obvious) the Better Together page as I guess it may have links to other sites, but I couldn`t guarantee those other sites won`t be, shall we say, unreasonably anti-independence.
      Hopefully, someone else might be able to help you out with this. I wish you the best of luck.

    44. ianbrotherhood says:

      Just did a wee search all by myself, and sure enough, Effie is ‘real’?!
      Gordon Bennett!! Youse could’ve told me!
      This, from a recent missive:
      ‘Germans treat other Germans quite differently from how they treat Greeks.’
      Wow…
      Nuff said?
      If you feel a journalistic urge to scrutinise the original document, for ‘context’ etc, it’s here:
      http://www.openunionism.com/the-difference-between-a-compatriot-and-a-foreigner/
      Another roaster to add to the list…
      …damn, where did I put the ‘Roasters’ list?…somewhere under the ‘Belters’… slipped in-between ‘Boilers’ and ‘Total Screamers’…ah, here it is…, aye, typical, I’ve been in such a bad mod, full of Lambrini, I put it in ‘Trolls’.
      Doh!
      Oh well, they get sorted….eventually!
      Bottoms-up!
      Have a braw week-end ‘Effie Deans’!
       

    45. ianbrotherhood says:

      @Jiggsbro –
      ‘If I knew a Brian Taylor doppelganger, I‚Äôd give them the nod that a good pie could be in the offing.’
      Cheers mate. My wife just came in and asked me if I’m alright as I laughed so hard I went into a coughing fit.¬†
      I blamed the Golden Virginia, naturally.
      Slainte.

    46. cath says:

      ” If you look at the vox pop (especially 16/17 yr olds this week) there‚Äôs a demand for information. I take that to mean unbiased.”
       
      Yes, not just from young folk either. Many people want information and unbiased sources of information. It’s no good telling them the mainstream media is biased – they either know already or don’t care. What most people claim to want is somewhere they can go for unbiased pros and cons.
       
      I really struggle with this too as there is no unbiased source. I can tell folk the Yes side is a lot less biased, but being Yes side myself, that sounds (and possibly is) biased.
       
      What we really need to be doing, I think, is running regular events, perhaps once a month or once a week in bigger cities, which are a mixture of hustings, debates and entertainment (music, speech etc). Events that are neither YES or NO events but open to all. Come along and debate your case, or come along and listen and ask questions if you’re undecided. Invited speakers from YES and Better Together, or just Yes and No sides. Get some interest, momentum and fun going. If Better Together weren’t willing to participate, that would be telling, but they would have been invited. Hopefully they would though. I’d love to see debates like that happening.
       
      I just get the sense right now that most folk feel excluded.
       

    47. Albert Herring says:

      @ianbrotherhood 
      Brian Taylor to¬†Brian Taylor doppelganger (or vice versa) “This town ain’t big enough for both of us”
      OK I’ll get my coat, but before I go,
      @Yesitis
      I wouldn’t recommend the better Together website as it’s front page contains several direct, demonstrable lies (at least it did before it went down).
       
       

    48. ianbrotherhood says:

      @Cath-
      Don’t know whereabouts you are, but¬†SSP are having a public meeting in Irvine next Tuesday. It’s about the Bedroom Tax, but these meetings always spiral off into other ¬†stuff too, depending on what folk want to discuss. The last one we had, week before last, got a turnout of 80, and that was a freezing foggy night.
      It’s in the Fullarton Comm Centre, Ayr Rd, Irvine (near the high-risers) and starts 7.30. Richie Venton speaking.
      Abody welcome.

    49. cath says:

      “SSP are having a public meeting in Irvine next Tuesday. It‚Äôs about the Bedroom Tax,”
       
      But that’s a political meeting. We need something beyond politics – something “normal” people would come to for a night out. Political meetings, even in the biggest cities, tend to attract the same handful of activists and that’s what we need to be moving away from, to engage those who aren’t that political but are beginning to ask “what’s all this about then and where can I find non-political, non-biased information?” Fun, engaging events. Not quite sure how to do that or what they’d look like, but not normal political events.
       
       

    50. cath says:

      Obviously I’m not saying political meetings aren’t also important, btw – especially on things like bedroom tax. Just that for the referendum we need something more on top.

    51. Indion says:

      kininvie says:
      15 March, 2013 at 10:15 pm

      @yesitis @morag @indion Attacking someone for their background rather than their arguments is not a good start. We could all do that. Dismissing said arguments as ‚ÄėTransparent rambling devices‚Äô and thus feeling good about it is scarcely better. This site (I hope) is not some kind of mutual back-slapping club where everyone on the other side is dismissed with a sneer ‚Äď though I sometimes worry it is beginning to look just like that. We have a lot of people to persuade ‚Äď we are not going to do that by going around in little circles saying that we are automatically right, and so, by definition, everyone else is a misguided right-winger from ‚Äėthe wrong side of the tracks‚Äô

      Before I respond, as you quoted me twice, here again is what i did write:
      Indion says:
      15 March, 2013 at 9:49 pm

      kininvie @ 8:12pm
      Effie ‚Äď the ‚ÄėLily from St Leonards‚Äô, therein dressed in top to toe brown ‚Äď got her pre-uni ‚Äėeducation‚Äô¬†from the wrong side of examined history‚Äôs¬†tracks in our patron saint‚Äôs town. And,¬†living in a past that never was what it was made out to be, still seems to have no difficulty questioning¬†the British¬†nationalist form of propoganda.¬†¬†Of what little¬†exists, her reasoning gives semantics a good name¬†and¬†clearly¬†exhibits a blissful ignorance of its¬†fully-clothed Orwellian streak leaving her nakedly exposed.
      Given the paucity of her publication’s attracting comment on day’s empty of other than her own dissembling, it’s perhaps best to leave the likes of Hermione and Effie to her/their own transparent rambling devices.

      In the order you quoted, I said nothing about ‘thus feeling good about it’ her/their ‘transparent rambling devices’. In fact, I don’t feel good about anyone’s lack of a full appreciation of Scotland’s history from their education, especially if in Scotland as in her as mine case.

      As to ‘the wrong side of examined histories tracks in St Andrews’,¬†you do indeed have a point as I should have left the original¬†‘private east’ rather the ‘wrong’ in contrast to mine gained from the ‘senior secondary west’ end of the same street, which is where¬†I as¬†a¬†Russian beginner learnt of the Russians appreciation of Burns (also edited out).

      Also, I didn’t and don’t know if she is right-wing, but having read all her stuff and never thought it worth my time engaging in comment with an unpersuable a died in the wool Unitarist in Unionist guise as so many are,¬†I’d agree with your assessment that she is indeed right-wing.

    52. ianbrotherhood says:

      @Cath-
      Understood.
      But it’s not a ‘political’ meeting. It’s public. It’s hosted by a political party, sure, but I wonder whether it’s any more or less ‘political’ than the events being organised by the BBC and ‘hosted’ by Brian Taylor, Wark, or whoever else.¬†
      One thing’s for sure – we (i.e. the SSP) don’t knock our pans in just to get a chance to hear our own voices. The point of the meeting is to give concerned folk, from whatever party (or none) the chance ¬†to hear some hard information – there’s no big script, questions aren’t written-down and screened beforehand, no-one’s walking about with a big microphone, and it’s happening in real-time, isn’t recorded, dissected and sterilised prior to broadcast.
      It won’t be broadcast, and that’s why it’s important – it’s real people, in real-time, having a real debate. We’re not posing. This is what real ‘politics’ used to be about, pre-MSM.
      Okay, it’s edgy, sometimes a bit hair-raising, never sure what’s going to happen, but it’s the way we have to go now – expecting the Beeb or any of the print media to facilitate such exchange is futile. We have to do it ourselves, and more power to any party with the gumption and determination to make it happen, regardless of where they lie in the ‘spectrum’. I’d rather see the BNP have a public meeting in my own area, open to all locals, than see their pish being broadcast via whatever media.
      Cath, I take your points on-board, and understand what you’re saying, but, bottom-line, this Bedroom Tax is energising people. Something serious is happening – something that cannot be acknowledged via MSM.
      On the ground, it’s real – the only way to confirm that is to see it for yourself. Just ask folk. Stand in your local pedestrian precinct wearing a high-viz jacket and hold a clip-board. Ask random strangers – they’ll tell you how they feel, and they’re chuffed even to be asked. ¬†They’re furious about this shite. And it doesn’t matter who gives them the chance to sound-off about it.
      People come to these meetings because they need to find out more about what’s happening. Yes, the meeting next week happens to be hosted by the SSP, but it’s the topic they want to hear about, not our policies on this, that or whatever else.
      Earlier this week, also in Irvine, I gave a leaflet about the meeting to a very elderly man who was waiting for his daughter to emerge from a nearby shop. I haven’t been active with the SSP for a long time, but the party has always coveted that particular spot at the end of the Bridgegate. The man accepted the leaflet, peered up at me, smiling, and said, ‘Aye, youse are aye greetin an girnin aboot some hing ay ither, eh?’
      Aye. We are!
      Kin right!
       

    53. Indion says:

      kininvie says:
      15 March, 2013 at 10:56 pm

      @yesitis No one suggested arse licking, so far as I am aware. So, if you don‚Äôt like my suggestion, can you recommend a pro-union source that puts forward the case more dispassionately/better? There‚Äôs a clear reason for asking: If you look at the vox pop (especially 16/17 yr olds this week) there‚Äôs a demand for information. I take that to mean unbiased. Now, I‚Äôd dearly like to put out a leaflet or some such containing the best places to visit online. I can come up with half a dozen on the Indy side that are reasonable in their arguments, but damned if I can find anything on the pro-Union side. But if I just stick out one-sided stuff ‚Äď well, Im obviously biased. So what do I put forward?

       Dammed if I can either, so regret unable to help! kininvie

    54. Indion says:

      kininvie at 10:56 pm

      Dammed if I can either yet, so regret unable to help as of now!

      (Apologies Rev Stu, please delete superflous previous at 01:19am)

    55. cath says:

      “bottom-line, this Bedroom Tax is energising people. Something serious is happening ‚Äď something that cannot be acknowledged via MSM.”
       
      Oh I totally agree. I’m really glad to see there is a growing backlash against welfare reform – it’s vital, and if that radicalises people more generally that’s a great thing.The SSP and others are doing a great job on that, including some left-labour folk down south.
      Sadly though, there are still far too many people – especially among the better off who’re never touched by welfare issues – who just get their information from the mainstream media, and aren’t interested. They genuinely believe the scroungers guff. Even people who really should know better.
       
      In terms of the referendum – and wider issues like welfare and what’s happening to the most vulnerable – it’s those people we need to be engaging and waking up. They’ll go to pubs and events, but you’ll never see them at political meetings. Which is why I think the debate has to branch out into pubs and venues and look at ways of involving them. They’re also the kind of folk who are often “I hate all politicians, they’re all the same” and kind of revel in their anti-politicalness.

    56. ianbrotherhood says:

      @Cath-
      You’re right. I know you are. I’m maybe just too much of a ‘glass half-full’ person and have taken quite a few pelters for assuming that we’ll secure a clear Yes. I don’t care what the polls say, and religiously ignore anyone who cites them as the foundation for any argument, be it yea or nay.
      Tackling apathy and ignorance is a hardy perennial, so your suggestions would be valid at any time – here’s hoping the broader interest you want to see starts kicking-in as soon as possible, but it’ll have to be instigated by us. There’s no substitute for face-to-face exchange.
      Up and at ’em, every day!
      Slainte

    57. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      Indion, kininvie: I actually tend to agree that – while it’s clearing a VERY low bar – “Effie Deans” is about as good as partisan Unionist bloggers get at the moment. She, if it is indeed a she, at least engages with comments (on her own blog rather than on Open Unionism, which had banned them entirely last time I looked) and makes a case that isn’t just a rewritten “Better Together” press release.

      I think we should distinguish between people making their arguments in an unreasonable way and people making arguments that don’t win us over. I’m not exactly an admirer, but as I say it’s a very thin field and it doesn’t take much to lead it. In fact, I might invite her to a Straight Debate.

    58. cath says:

      “I‚Äôm maybe just too much of a ‚Äėglass half-full‚Äô person and have taken quite a few pelters for assuming that we‚Äôll secure a clear Yes.”
       
      I hope you’re right ūüôā
       
      And yes, you’re definitely right that we have to do it ourselves. And one of my pet hates is people who say “someone should do…x,y,z” then expects there’ll be someone else to magically do it. So maybe I’ll bite the bullet and try and start something in Glasgow…

    59. Holebender says:

      The one I absolutely abhor is when someone says ‘those Euromillions winners should pay for (insert pet indy project here)’. Gets me seething every time!

    60. deewal says:

      Holebender says:
      16 March, 2013 at 5:07 pm

      The one I absolutely abhor is when someone says ‚Äėthose Euromillions winners should pay for (Independent Television Company)‚Äô. Gets me seething every time!

    61. Albert Herring says:

      @cath
      There’s streetwork, stalls, doorknocking etc going on all over Glasgow every weekend and through the week too in some areas. The YesScotland office should be able to point you to your local organiser.¬†

    62. ianbrotherhood says:

      @Rev-
      re ‘Effie Deans’.
      Thought any more about inviting her to debate? Hermione’s gone awfy quiet and Niko’s away wrestling with his loyalties, poor sowel.



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