The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


Four years on

Posted on April 19, 2011 by

Many, many caveats, of course. And a long spoon is clearly required.

But it's hard to class this as anything other than a significant victory. The Sun is the biggest-selling newspaper in Scotland, and while it's unlikely to have much direct influence on how people vote, it changes the atmosphere of the election considerably. Game on.

0 to “Four years on”

  1. Matty says:

    Wasn't there a period in the mid or late '90s when the Sun suddenly decided it was in favour of Scottish independence (but only the edition north of the border) and had "Fighting for Independence" on every front page before quietly dropping it? I've never quite understood what all that was about.

    Reply
  2. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    There was. It had a front page for (maybe) the 2003 Holyrood elections urging a vote for the SNP under the headline "Rise Now And Be A Nation Again" or something. So I'm taking their current conversion with a pinch of salt…

    Reply
  3. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    Wow. A quick bit of Googling reveals that it was actually 1992 (man, I'm getting SO OLD), and that the paper was actually backing independence, but explicitly NOT the actual SNP. Their position now, of course, is that they back the SNP but explicitly NOT independence.

    Reply
  4. Tom Camfield says:

    Hey Stu, can we have a "What I would happen after Independence" article? It's possible you've answered it elsewhere, but would you move back to Scotland, or would you stay in England with an even bluer nation around you? What would you gain from Scottish independence?
    Also, what would happen to Wales and N.Ireland?
    I'm from the South, so I grew up with the idea that we were subsidising these other regions (not Scotland, obv), do you think the union will fall apart? I'm not sure England needs Wales and N.Ireland, but they sure seem to care a lot about the Falklands and the oil fields nearby…
    Also, do you think Scotland would manage itself effectively? I don't mean this in a patronising way, since it can't be much worse than the UK, but the most powerful men up there would be Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling, or Charles Kennedy and Menzies Campbell; would they work together? What would stop them making the same mistakes they made south of the border? Would they be able to wrestle the oil fields from England? Would they set up a sovereign wealth fund, or spend the money on free prescriptions? High tax or low? Would there be a flight of business and businessmen to England, or from England?
    Just your opinion. Thanks!

    Reply
  5. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    I know you're not inviting me to do so, but I'm not going to get carried away with a chicken-counting exercise at this point. If and when the SNP win I'll definitely be writing something very substantial about it, but to answer a few direct questions for now:

    1. I don't accept that Brown, Darling, Kennedy and Campbell (etc) would be the most powerful men in an independent Scotland. For one thing, none of them are standing or likely to stand as an MSP any time soon, and independence would take a few years to happen even if there was a referendum and a Yes vote, by which time they'd all be pretty old or dead. Their parties would still want to siphon all their best talent to Westminster, and Brown also wants the IMF job.

    By far the strongest figure would be Salmond, because he already is the strongest figure in Scottish politics by a country mile and if he actually delivered independence he'd become something akin to a god. He'd be Nelson Mandela and Che Guevara rolled into one. (And he already looks like two people rolled into one, bless his fat-clogged Scottish arteries.)

    2. It would be almost impossible under international law for the remnant UK to hold onto anything but a tiny fraction of the oil fields. And the redrawing of the boundaries perpetrated by Blair in the late 90s would be very likely to be challenged to recoup the 6000 square miles of ocean he reassigned from Scotland to England.

    3. The SNP have already proved themselves canny and financially adept at managing the devolved Parliament's block grant. Their stated policy is to build up a Norway-style oil fund (the Norwegian one stands at somewhere around £350bn at the moment AFAIK, a vast reserve of money for a country of 5m people), and my view is that they'd likely focus much of their spending on infrastructure for renewable energy. (As well as a few crowd-pleasers.) Renewables potentially offer Scotland a bonanza of wealth greater even than that of oil, and by its nature an essentially infinite one. The country is at the epicentre of Europe's wind and wave power, and covered in enormous amounts of empty space in which to stick windfarms and hydro stations and the like without anyone getting too huffy about it.

    4. I think the rest of the UK would stay intact. The Welsh could barely be persuaded to come out and vote for more powers for their Assembly a few weeks ago, and I think they're happy with devolved status. They have none of Scotland's abundance of natural resources and would be in a much tougher position as an independent country, and I think they know it. They're indulged heavily with regard to the Welsh language too, which assuages a lot of nationalist sentiment.

    Norn Iron, meanwhile, would I think be extremely reluctant to separate from the UK for their own very particular reasons. I suspect the Loyalist community would consider such a move as rendering them much more vulnerable to being rejoined to the Republic sooner or later.

    5. As for me, clearly I wouldn't benefit directly from Scottish independence. I do plan to move back home later in life, but right now I have too many personal ties where I am. It'd be a comforting thought to know I always had somewhere to retreat to if the Tory-dominated rump UK that would almost certainly result from Scottish independence became too intolerable, though.

    Reply


Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.


  • About

    Wings Over Scotland is a thing that exists.

    Stats: 6,990 Posts, 1,253,190 Comments

  • Recent Posts

  • Archives

  • Categories

  • Tags

  • Recent Comments

    • Hatey McHateface on Faces In Sand: “Mony a guid idea said in jest, twathater. Sturgeon is still immensely popular in Scotland. An experienced and plausible player…” Oct 27, 07:20
    • Hatey McHateface on Faces In Sand: “It’s the pitiless crushing gets me down. That, and the eternal promises of cheese which never materialises. I like cheese.” Oct 27, 07:09
    • twathater on Faces In Sand: “So Alex Neil and William Duguid who have feasted at the snp trough for years and done absolutely fuck all…” Oct 27, 03:27
    • sarah on Faces In Sand: “Yes United and Independence Forum Scotland have started Yes2030.scot – it had a spot at the SSRG Conference to publicise…” Oct 26, 21:47
    • William Smith on Faces In Sand: “Drat! Here I was, waiting on our impending liberation! I don’t know about you, but I can’t cope with any…” Oct 26, 21:15
    • Captain Caveman on Faces In Sand: “”Have you any idea how stupid these statements make you look?” I’m going with “no”.” Oct 26, 21:08
    • Alf Baird on Faces In Sand: “‘Unionist’ cheerleaders need to believe that a union exists, in fact their colonial ‘condition’ depends on maintaining the hoax at…” Oct 26, 20:45
    • Hatey McHateface on Faces In Sand: “The usual suspects can’t believe in the impending bankruptcy of the U.K. because they already believe Scotland is hoaching with…” Oct 26, 20:31
    • Hatey McHateface on Faces In Sand: “So you’re saying there’s no date to save? I’ve been saving a space on the front of the fridge to…” Oct 26, 20:11
    • Chas on Faces In Sand: “Word reaches me that the ‘High Executive’ at the UN have met in secret session to discuss the recent presentation…” Oct 26, 19:54
    • Aidan on Faces In Sand: “I believe the tidal generation project in the Pentland Firth will be the highest capacity tidal project in the world…” Oct 26, 19:27
    • Dan on Faces In Sand: “Like other articles, this starts ok but ends with pushing nuclear. Ideal as it only takes a couple of months…” Oct 26, 18:58
    • Hatey McHateface on Faces In Sand: “Nah, CC, Confused retired from a long, successful and lucrative career in the higher echelons of the diplomatic service. That’s…” Oct 26, 18:38
    • Hatey McHateface on Faces In Sand: “Nope, Marie, I didn’t.” Oct 26, 18:21
    • Aidan on Faces In Sand: “On point 1: yes I am obviously saying that, I don’t know how anyone could think anything different. The treaty…” Oct 26, 18:18
    • Xaracen on Faces In Sand: “Aidan, are you claiming that the 1707 Treaty was not voided by England’s coercion of Scotland to bring it to…” Oct 26, 18:15
    • Xaracen on Faces In Sand: “Are you claiming that the 1707 Treaty was not voided by England’s coercion of Scotland to bring it to the…” Oct 26, 17:52
    • Aidan on Faces In Sand: “The only thing missing from your explanation is the eccentric bit which is; “I, Xaracen, posting on Wings over Scotland…” Oct 26, 17:08
    • Xaracen on Faces In Sand: “@Northcode; Re your “The Myth They All Rely On” post of 21 October; (I was too busy with a flitting…” Oct 26, 16:42
    • Aidan on Faces In Sand: “It is extremely tedious, and it is not presented with the intent to provoke debate or discussion, it is simply…” Oct 26, 14:44
    • Spartan 117 on Faces In Sand: “I doubt anybody in the M25 omniclusterfuckpermashambles-on-Thames is paying any attention to the UN capers (all of which is just…” Oct 26, 13:41
    • Spartan 117 on Faces In Sand: “Pished, hysterical, incoherent rambling as per.” Oct 26, 13:31
    • Captain Caveman on Faces In Sand: “Yes, the “useful idiot” argument (from a Unionist POV) isn’t lost on me. 🙂 However, it is bloody tedious, isn’t…” Oct 26, 13:25
    • Aidan on Faces In Sand: “I think Confused is having a tougher time as an adult. I would guess passing the days drinking very strong,…” Oct 26, 13:24
    • Aidan on Faces In Sand: “It has a practical purpose in driving the cause of independence down a dead end and diverting time and resources,…” Oct 26, 13:18
    • Captain Caveman on Faces In Sand: “I’m guessing you had a tough time at school, Confused, and were no stranger to the “bogwash”.” Oct 26, 12:40
    • Confused on Faces In Sand: “getting into the english at the UN is useful, and enjoyable, because it “hits them where they live” – they…” Oct 26, 12:17
    • Confused on Faces In Sand: ““Rewilding” is another con job – what it means is : GET ORFF MOI LAND – and whenever an ANGLO…” Oct 26, 12:14
    • Lorncal on Faces In Sand: “Northcode: although contemporary international law would back us up in most areas, the Treaty will almost certainly come into play…” Oct 26, 11:30
    • Spartan 117 on Faces In Sand: “Alf, but the UK *does* exist, legally, politically and physically, not just within its territory but it is internationally recognised.…” Oct 26, 10:55
  • A tall tale



↑ Top