Filed in Receptacle 13
We haven’t bothered sending a submission to the Smith Commission.
Here’s why.
It’s not even for the obvious reasons we’ve discussed previously, namely that the Commission’s report will be roundly ignored by whoever ends up in 10 Downing Street next May. It’s naive beyond words to imagine that a party that’s just won an election will execute anything but its own plan for devolution, if it bothers to execute one at all.
Rather, it’s this, from today’s Sunday Times:
And this, from today’s Scotland on Sunday:
The problem, for anyone who hasn’t spotted it yet, is that according to Gordon Brown’s infamous timetable for “The Vow”, the Commission is due to arrive at its final conclusion by the 30th of November. It has to do that by consulting with representatives from all the major parties, as well as “civic Scotland”.
In the weeks leading up to the referendum, Wings was getting mere hundreds of emails a day, and you can take it from us: if you think it’s possible to get even remotely CLOSE to managing to read 10,000 submissions – even short ones – in that period of time, while also engaged in complex and difficult discussions with opposing sets of politicians, let alone give them any intelligent consideration, then we’d like you to get in touch with us as soon as possible, as we’re actually Nigerian princes and we need to deposit millions of pounds in your bank account.
For the Commission to pretend that it was worth normal people bothering to share their views isn’t just an insult to the intelligence, it’s verging on fraud.
I’ve been encouraging folk to submit something so that the numbers will be so big that the fraud will be obvious.
I dont care. The only one of the 10,000 he needs to read is mine.
Well I agree with that but I sent a response anyway, just in case they tried to say the public couldna be bothered. Naturally I said anything short of total control of all revenues & resources would be unacceptable.
Oi! worth normal people bothering to share their views
You’re not implying I’m abnormal … are you?
Yes, the trappings and processes of democracy and engagement doesn’t mean its happening.
Scotland, priding itself on it’s socialist and Labour heritage, is a bystander while a banker and Lord promises to do right by us.
Two former FMs, now Lords, witter about, well it doesn’t really matter.
Labour ‘activists’ talk about a new Labour party, after 50 years of not doing anything, and maybe in 10 years it will be done, they say.
Malcom Bruce and others talk about the debate in Scotland, something they played no part in, as if they had gone through a great transformation in democracy.
All the energy and activity and discussion was, and is, in the yes campaign, but these other politicians are like vampires or ghosts, they want that life, they envy it.
They have trapped us in limbo, just watching.
So I would say the message to them should be, just fuck, fuck, fuck the fuck off. You are in the way.
My estimate is 40+ weeks to read those 10,000 submissions. 10 mins per submission, 100K minutes = 41 weeks @ 8 hrs per day Mon-Fri reading.
Ain’t gonnae happen.
Handclapping honey – I’m sure your abs are normal.
The only thing we are going to get is cuts more cuts and even more cuts, well done to the older folks that voted no, you should have knowen better after all werent yous about in the 80s and seen what happened after the 79 referendum?
I agree that it will be a sham but I have emailed a response.
It felt good to write down all the reasons why I want – well full independence, that’s not going to happen -but as near as dammit.
Also I don’t want him saying that no-one was bothered.
Plus if we don’t get full devo then we will be within our rights to say they have failed to deliver what was promised hence indy ref 2 at the first opportunity.
I think a lot will depend on the GE results, it’s going to be harder to convince folk to vote for a party rather than Yes/No
Lord Smitthie will no doubt use the BBC’s complaints handling agency to filter the submissions into categories; eg., Nae Chance, Looney-Toons, Haud-the-horses, Steady-the-Buffs, That’s a brammer fae McTiernan – nice man BTW, Hisnae a sna-ba’s chance, etc.
But, that’s a real go-er fae Ruthie baby’s pal, so we’ll put it in with the other six that fit’s the bill for Lord Smitthie to get his teeth right intae before the looming deadline.
Whit a charade!
They all go straight into the big bin marked ” Santa’s mail”
With just as much relevance!
There is an element of, if you dont express your opinion then dont moan about the outcome, however, in this instance it will have no effect whatsoever on the outcome, as said above, the new party in government will not implement anyway!
We need more to concentrate our efforts on relieving Labour of their seats in the General Election.
Sent my relatively short submission in, full FFA and no party political shenanigans, a couple of weeks ago.
I did note that Smith he was observing trends developing and he was clear that his piece was not to be tied to other constitutional changes.
I take what Stu says and I confess I a sceptical too but at least if Smith receives lots of FFA submissions the message is there whether they act on it or not.
@liz
I think a lot will depend on the GE results, it’s going to be harder to convince folk to vote for a party rather than Yes/No
But it can be done. Glasgow East Bye-election got a 22.5% swing Labour to SNP when the polls weren’t in favour by dint of hard work by the whole of the SNP at the time which was only about 16000 IIRC. Now the SNP has more than 1000 in every constituency they can probably fight a Glasgow East type campaign in all 59 Westminster seats.
But if they’re asking for volunteers to leaflet the whole constituency before 7 am, … well I’m sure some of the youngsters from Yes will be happy to help instead of me.
On the nose Rev.
The whole exercise is a waste of time. The only significant legislation which Westminster will ever produce for Scotland will be aimed at hamstringing the Scottish Government/parliament. The only way to stall this whilst we work on indyref2 is to send as many pro indy representatives to Westminster to act as a buffer against such a legislative assault and turn Holyrood into a pro indy rainbow alliance. A house filled with parties who put self determination and people first.
Spot on with that article, Stu, but as others have said if nobody
had bothered then that is exactly the excuse they would use.
Now that the submission figures seem to be well in excess of 10G
you can bet your last that they will use that as one of their
excuses to delay – to help get them closer to the elections.
Something along the lines of not anticipating such a huge response.
Even though there could have been well in excess of 3 million responses.
AYE, but i still wonder if wee Jo-han has submitted hers,
now that she’s a free woman – free from party constraints, eh.
We must make sure that all those proud scots spread their votes equally between the Unionist parties; pooling and sharing and all that xx
Ditto what others are saying.
I didn’t spend a lot of time on my response..well, how long does it take to say “Devo-max” or else!
It doesn’t matter what you call it – it’s still long grass and “more powers” are just being tee’d up for a kick into it
Maybe he has a few thousand elves (like Santa does) and they will read all the letters from the little boys and girls of Scotland?
I just emailed him saying,Independence Nothing Less. I’ve had a lifetime of phoney whitewashers.
I’m quite happy to let the unionist parties discredit the Smith Commission themselves. (Which they of course will.)
Doesn’t mean the scottish public shouldn’t feel it worthwhile to have their say on it though. It will actually be extremely useful to point to all the public submissions from ordinary scots, the 45 and Yes parties. We will need them when the unionist media attack dogs and LabConLib start trying to blame the SNP and Yes parties for the failure of any kind of credible proposals for more powers while smearing the SNP and Yes parties as somehow being unwilling to make more powers work. (which again, as everyone knows, they will obviously try to do come 2015 and 2016)
I sent a response (‘submission’ feels like a dirty word these days) but I was a little conflicted. On the one hand if they only got a few hundred entries the mood would be ‘oh well, the public doesn’t really care what they get then’, but if there are tens or even hundreds of thousands it might be used as a sop to avoid further, more rigorous public engagement – ‘we had so many submissions that we obviously don’t need a proper constitutional convention, you don’t need to tell us again’. It’s so obviously structurally inadequate that it maybe shouldn’t be endorsed. You could always include such criticisms in your response, of course.
I still have mine to submit. Yes, the numbers seem huge and it is unlike every one will be read in detail.
I think I will reduce mine dramatically and make sure the couple of main points are bold. I can live in hope that perhaps someone will take a look through them and get some vague statistics about what people seem to want.
Do I believe I will have much, if any, influence? Probably not!
To me, the commission is like being asked whether you want your prison cell painted white or cream. All I care about is independence. I know as much devo as possible is obviously good and the way to indy. But I find I cannot raise any enthusiasm that is not independence ONE HUNDRED PERCENT!
This is easy for Smith. He’ll simply draw a line exactly half-way between all the devo-nanoists requests and all the devo-maxxers requests on and then declare that he has given careful consideration to all parties blah blah blah and his conclusions are as follows, which are a brilliant compromise skilfully done with political aplomb only executable by with years of experience blah blah blah – now can I have my £100,000 consultants fee? Please?
now what’s the ploblim?
We all know Scotland will get sod all new powers, any we do get will be a gargantuan millstone round the Scottish governments neck.
Will the Smith Commission actually tell us that they had no time to read any of the emails.
Because they knew what the timetable was and it was they who put out the request for anyone with any ideas to email them into the Commission.
We all know the whole thing is a sham, but I suppose we have to play along with it.
It’s a bit like telling the kids that Santa Claus will bring your presents at xmas as long as you behave yourself.
I’m “outraged from Bishopbriggs” do you mean to say the wishes of the sovereign people of our beloved country will be ignored. I am astonished and bewildered at the very thought of such a vile accusation, that the noble lord could, or would do such a thing
“BASTIRT”
Too much?
I take issue with that, if no-one bothered then it gives them ammunition to say that we don’t give a rats ass and will treat us in a similar manner to vermin. I think you are wrong on this and need to get as many people as you can to send even a one liner email as it lets them know this isn’t over and we’ve not rolled over and went belly up. Please retract this or encourage the people to write and do it quickly to benefit us all. Totall not like Wings over Scotland, have you been got at. Get off your arses and support the people.
I think the Smith Commission will have staff who simply sort through the submissions and sort them into groups. Scrap devolution, No change, the specific party proposals and “others”.
They may read the “others”, the rest they will simply weigh and look at the overall sentiment.
I still think the Smith Commission will go further than Labour wanted at the outset. However, whether it goes anywhere once Westminster gets its mitts on it is open to debate (but probably not much debate).
I’m quite happy to take care of all submissions.
10,000? That’s just over 0.5% of the Yes vote alone. Consider how many tens of thousands have signed up for membership of pro-indy parties.
It would have been nice to see at least 50% of the TOTAL vote, both Yes and No, submit something to leave the Good Lord in no doubt that ordinary individuals at grassroots level still care and that they’re watching and waiting (even a three-word e-mail like “Full fiscal autonomy” – easy to read, easy to put in a pile to count).
It may or may not cause a delay in the deadline, but it would leave any future Government in 2015 in no doubt about the continuing level of engagement and discourage any thoughts of trying to renege on the outcome.
I’m just hoping Lamont comes forward to stick the knife in with proof that the referendum was fixed, and calls for a re-vote :). Can you imagine the chaos that would ensue!
It would certainly save us a few years to reach indy.
If only. Hehe.
Just sent a response. It was short and to the point.
Even if the commission puts forward proposals in good faith, before the 2015 ge
After the ge, the bill will be slaughtered in the hol, same as calman
But it might be enough to convince people to vote for the unionists in the ge
Me, I couldn’t even bring myself to email the commission
Our chance to define what devo max means will be at the ge
I get your point Stu, but for me (and others at the recent meeting we had in Aberdeen about it), it’s about making sure they can’t just go “oh look, no one responded, so they must be happy with the status quo.” It’s just like with the SNP proposals – everyone knows they’ll get rejected, but at least by putting them forward the SNP forces them to specifically rule out devo max on the record.
If nothing else, it’s just something else to use to get people a bit more informed as to how little power Scotland truly has, and to highlight some of the nonsensical aspects of the current devolution settlement – Scott Minto came up with a brilliant one about architects registration in his submission.
sorry me O/T again…
Live Indy are broadcasting a music event “Overheard in the Westend”
“You can overhear some of the finest independent musicians in the best independent cafe/ bar in the westend”
link to tinyurl.com
I think it’s better to make a submission than not to: it adds a bit more pressure and makes it clear there is popular interest.
Don’t dismiss the Smith Commission because it won’t deliver devo max, it will deliver further powers.
Maybe, as others have intimated, the point of public submissions, is as a gauge of public interest/desire for devolution.
As such, I think every single one counts. If they had received just say, 50 public responses, then it is quite possible that Smith may have concluded that most Scots don’t really care, so there would be no need to hand over the powers for real devo max.
That’s how I see it.
If an agreement is reached to give devo max (everything but defence and foreign affairs), which the Scottish Government if happy with, then it will be time for referendum 2, if a new Westminster Government chooses to ignore it.
I fully expect however, that Devo max will not be delivered as promised, and as such the vow/promise of Westminster will be exposed as a lie for all to see, and all bets will be off.
Deja vue all over again, I think I posted before
that the work of the commission was a charade, that the Commission didn’t have enough staff, and that what staff they had would throw any thing asking for Devo max would be put in a big bag marked NO.
Or did I imagine it?
Stu, you don’t believe in massively parallel architectures?
Remember the transputer…
My response to Smiffie was a version of: you are going to achieve nothing because what needs to happen (FFA) is a non starter with your bosses in Westminster and you know it.
You are actually just a waste of Scottish taxpayers money.
C’mon now read 10000 replies? — easy just pass them over to GCHQ and they will give you a full analysis in hours. Come to think of it, if they were all on email, they will already know what people have said……
Our imperial masters are going to use it for bog roll. If Scotland or Scottish government is any different in 10 years, well it its not going to happen. But BBC propaganda will make it look as if something has, so welcome to teamGB as we all slither out of Europe and down into Tory boy rule Britannia heaven, which is going to cost Scotland a lot more as England looks to make up the EU bye bye difference.
All that’s remotely interesting about Crash and The Vow is why they did it anyway, when all polls, Prof Curtice, bookies etc showed all cringers, Tory’s, proud Scots Buts, No to Scots Yes to Shetland etc were all going to vote no.
Panicky idiots our imperial masters.
@Paula Rose:
You’re a stakhanovite?
Sadly, I’m in the Rev’s camp.
The phrase ‘window dressing’ comes to mind.
I don’t feel inclined to join in their game of phony consultation.
Personally, I think the ‘Commission’ should be shunned, boycotted.
Dumbing the Dumb – grousebeater-wordpress
Shuggy says:
26 October, 2014 at 6:40 pm
“It would have been nice to see at least 50% of the TOTAL vote, both Yes and No, submit something to leave the Good Lord in no doubt that ordinary individuals at grassroots level still care and that they’re watching and waiting (even a three-word e-mail like “Full fiscal autonomy” – easy to read, easy to put in a pile to count).”
________________
And easier to put in the bin.
As far as i know, going by the online application guidelines, they want you to give detailed reasons in support of your submissions.
Struck me as a very deliberate move to deter a very large percentage of the population from submitting requests.
I firmly believe they already know what they’re doing and all this Commission nonsense is just a smokescreen.
Time will tell.
A NO vote always meant ‘do as you please cos’ nothing is going to happen here’.
How many NO voters thought that the offer of “more powers” would end up being dealt with by a Lord? As soon as I saw that,I knew it was long grass time.
yes it is a total waste of time, and it also creates an emotional/moral course of action.
the strength of pro indy AND devo max feeling is already known and established.
why water this down in any way.
i see the smith commission as a delaying distraction, to dilute proceedings and cause division.
it will be used as a lever against “us”, and put power back into their hands.
they will own the process.
primarily we need jobs/tax creating powers, it is vital to OWN, (as in real ownership) and reinvigorate the scottish economy.
our economy must not stay(staid), as a oneway direction wealth pump, if it does, we get/are being sucked dry.
I can’t work out the lack of concentrate fury being shown over the last few articles we’ve been shown.
We were trying to decide our constitutional future and now we are told of the serious shambolic , dishonest nature of what Labour in Scotland was allowed to tell us.
A commission run by a Lord banker is deciding what they might ‘give’ us, while we are expected to stand and wait.
In 8 months we will vote on should we just elect the most unpopular leader of a party, in Miliband, and we are idly wondering if people will be tribal enough to revert to old voting habits.
There is a dream like disconnect between what we are hearing and how we are dealing, or not dealing, with the information.
After wading through the “guidelines” for submissions I came to 2 conclusions. First, that if submissions didn’t have every last penny accounted for then it would be discounted post haste and second that it is a side show as Westminster, and I mean specifically Westminster, offered all Scottish citizens Devo Max if we voted no, both the offer and it’s definition is on record thanks to the obliging MSM, therefore the Smith commission is irrelevant as the powers to be devolved are known to all. In reality the commission and Lamonts ‘resignation’ are to keep us occupied whilst the popcorn politics of Westminster play out in the hope that we will eventually just go away – No chance!
Since the Smith Commission is collecting personal information from individuals and information on these individuals preferences for devolution, shouldn’t it have a data protection act registration saying for what purposes the data are held, and who will be given access to the information?
So at some time we should all be able to see it, or the organisations who are authorised to see it can crunch the numbers for us.
I’ve read all the above and there are many valid points made nevertheless like elections where I always vote so that afterwards I have the right to complain about everything that they get up to or don’t for that matter. So get your submissions in and do not give them the excuse as many have pointed out above. Let’s make it 1.6M submissions by Friday.
Auld Rock
what system, if any, do the Smith Commission have in place for processing these submissions? They must be able to evidence the journey of each comment, for instance by recording who processed the comment, which log it was registered against, if it was dismissed, whether it was finally included in the report and if so, which section of the report took that particular comment into consideration. But I think Wings is right, the first step in any comments process was probably the trash bin.
AuldA – honey, if it weren’t for your soft mattress I would be perturbed at your suggestion that I am of a stakhanovite persuasion. I am more than happy to describe myself as a Luddite – very few on the left understand what that means, when they do they begin to dance.
It would be useful for some other body to collect very publicly submissions for the Smith Commission and publicly announce them.
Like
1,600,000 submissions for independence
200,000 submissions for FFA
200,000 submissions for all revenues raised in Scotland kept by Scotland
200,000 submissions for all oil and gas revenues being kept in Scotland and previous oil and gas revenues being counted against any national debt Scotland may be judged to have
and so on
It shouldn’t be difficult to have demand for independence as the most popular submission to the commission
which would sink it without trace
We all know its a con but I’ve submitted mine because I’m not giving them any ammunition to say we didn’t engage, people have lost interest in powers for Scotland or that submissions didn’t reflect devomax as most favoured option. FOI requests might be interesting afterwards
They made the VOW they should be left to they’re own devices in delivering DEVO MAX. I have said it many times before the SNP should,nt take part in this FARCE,
Lord Smith is well aware of what the SNP Gov wanted Independance, now backed up by 45% of the Scottish People,who,s paying for this Farce US or the Westminster Parly.
What about simply writing, “Whatever the SNP propose” and for the reason; they hold Scotlands interests first and foremost.
At first I was all for making my submission to Smithie . I pondered a few days and found my self thinking like you Rev , What’s the point .
Now like some above , I’m thinking it’s not gonna take long to do and the more submissions Smiffy gets the better .
If Smiffy bins them , he’ll mend him .
The 45% are more active and more likely to post submissions , whether we influence is the million dollar question .
So I have decided to do mine tonight . What’s another 10 mins instead of thon duncing !
O/T
Livestream covering a YES Spooky night in Partick in Glasgow tonight.
link to tinyurl.com
.”You can overhear some of the finest independent musicians in the best independent cafe/ bar in the westend on Sunday October 26th with a Halloween theme. It takes place the week before Halloween gets totes too commercial.”
link to facebook.com
Now correct me if I’m being simple –
There was a fair and reliable debate about Independence recently?
All parties behaved impeccably?
The benefits of the UK were explained rationally?
Not that simple is it?
@ Paula Rose Yeh yer simples,You never read the packaging ( may contain NUTS )
Regarding all the offers, promises, vows etc made prior to the 18th …. Does anyone know of a definitive list online of exactly who, what and when each Unionist high-heid person said?
If there isn’t such a list, perhaps one should be created as a focal point for their collective everlasting shame.
My late father ,a lifelong Labour voter would be spinning in his grave at what they have become today. Labour whether Scottish or any other variety, once stood to defend those who had no power of their own to facilitate change. I think part of the problem is that Labour like many previous working class people, have climbed the social ladder along with this grouping of now middle class and have left the defence of the poor behind, and we all know that the really poor still exist. It has become more of a sound- bite to talk about” the poor” rather than a true cause, a bit like the Tories” hardworking people” line. I have a cousin who serves for Labour at Westminster, who attained the position courtesy of union backing and not necessarily for any depth of intellect. Labour are a party of the middle classes with aspirations to make inroads to the social elite localities in Conservative heartlands. They have left ordinary people behind ,but view, them as a necessary burden to be shed post election. Glad your not around to see it dad.
I have my own angle.
I’ve written to the Smith Commission requesting a copy of a key document, namely, “the vow”. I need a true copy of the statement signed by the 3 leaders. I haven’t seen it yet and won’t comment to the Commission until I do.
Surely no one expects the good Lord himself to do the data capture? Wonder what the backroom staffing levels are and if sufficient resources have been allocated to cope. It would surely be improper otherwise.
On a related note, this is open to everyone in the UK, is it not? Imagine that 8000 of the submissions so far have come from London and the Home Counties. Doesn’t that put a bit of fire in your belly?
Paula Rose says:
26 October, 2014 at 6:36 pm
“I’m quite happy to take care of all submissions.”
Oooooooh, Matron!
__________________
ronnie anderson says:
26 October, 2014 at 7:20 pm
“Lord Smith is well aware of what the SNP Gov wanted Independance,
now backed up by 45% of the Scottish People,
who,s paying for this Farce US or the Westminster Parly.”
Aye, Ronnie, at least 45%.
I would imagine that figure has grown post referendum.
___________________
I’ve just seen an advertisement for the first time on TV.
It’s from the Electoral Commission and its alerting people to
be aware of the impending changes to the way people register to
vote in Scotland. Anyone know what that’s all about?
Are they getting rid of all the old registers, or something,
before they get investigated?
@Paula Rose
After you casting nastertiums on my 6 pack (lager) I’ll take up ronnie’s packaging theme as its made out of Fantastically Extendable Anti Referendum but it breaks down within 6 weeks so you can recycle
herit in the compostablesThe slight flaw Rev is that, as far as I understand it, all submissions (including my own) will be available for “public access”. So if 10,000 members of the public submit something and 90% are in favour of full fiscal autonomy yet that is rejected by the Smith Commission then it will be clear for all the world to see that the commission was a stitch up. For that reason alone I think (hope?) my submission was worthwhile.
Sorry darlings – I’m getting confused by the nuts.
I know you’re right, but I sent an e-mail to Smith, two in fact, and I copied you in, with the observation that we have to be seen to be ignored in vast numbers. That’s grist to our mill. It’s a stich up, but it’s one that has to be exposed. We have to show it up for the fraud it is. Along with the “vow” that spawned it. Along with the disgraceful propaganda arm that is the “B”BC, Along with Scottish Labour, who have plumbed new depths of betrayal; and I speak as a one time voter for them, but NEVER again.
Lady Alba coming up at the Livestream after the break..
O/T
Ronnie Anderson
Ian Brotherhood is getting things put together for the Labour Party shindig in Glasgow Town Centre on Thursday.
Are you up for paying Ed and is merry men a visit. I quite fancy it. Give the Wings banner an airing.
Maybe Murphy, the saviour of the Union, will stop for a chat.
hanclapping honey – oh gosh doll the chance to rub nasturtiums into your torso – swoon.
@Paula Rose:
Dear Paula, each time I marvel at how easily and limberly you use both quill and quilt.
Luddite vous dites ? You’re a freegan? I thought you were a sybarite?
Donald mac says:
26 October, 2014 at 6:41 pm
I’m just hoping Lamont comes forward to stick the knife in with proof that the referendum was fixed, and calls for a re-vote :). Can you imagine the chaos that would ensue!
It would certainly save us a few years to reach indy.
If only. Hehe.
==============================
Wonder if she will be given a seat in the House of Lords. Baroness Lamont of Pinnochio
farrochie says:
26 October, 2014 at 7:42 pm
I have my own angle.
I’ve written to the Smith Commission requesting a copy of a key document, namely, “the vow”. I need a true copy of the statement signed by the 3 leaders. I haven’t seen it yet and won’t comment to the Commission until I do.
_____________________________
Like yer style.
I fired off an email to my MP, politely requesting a copy as i needed it to back up my submissions, a few days ago.
I even pointed out it was the one signed by his boss, allegedly.
I’ve not even received an acknowledgement.
I put my tuppence worth into the Smith Commission, but rather than saying what I would like, I merely pointed out the facts about how Scotland was fraudulently cheated out of her Independence by the No campaign breaking the Edinburgh agreement, and that he is merely a puppet who will do whatever he is told to do, or words to this effect.
So that’s one he can probably score off his list right off the bat.
If I was a clever Labour tactician I’d be making sure the Scottish Labour Party was discussing independence as an option and that some of them declared for it.
What better way to spike the SNP guns for May?
And then they’d decide against it after the election.
We (The 45) want independence. The Smith commission knows it, the treasury select committee know it, the unionist parties know it and the rUK MP’s at WM know it, oh and the lords know it.
As far as i’m concerned it is the ‘no’ voters that wanted ‘more powers’ who should be lobbying for them and hoping that their wishes can make it through all the above … some chance!
Interesting
link to alanwyllie.info
And there was all those ‘no’ voters who though that Scottish politics would go back to sleep once the referendum was over?
We may have ‘lost’ the vote …but I don’t think we’ve lost anything half as much as the Unionists have in this last month.
I think us yes voters and campaigners were Green and niaive, I won’t be next time. Vote no you vote for another country to run Scotland!
Ive replied to smithys commissariat that i’m up for more power re air guns.
I also wish we had powers to prevent knife crime.
I also desire that libraries should be more accountable to its readers.
I also want more devolvement re licensing of cinemas and clubs
I doubt if we will get them, but its worth a try anyway………….
Hope this makes you smile
link to dropbox.com
@Alastair Wright:
26 October, 2014 at 7:08 pm
This from the guidelines site:
“With that in mind, we have produced the following guidelines to help ensure that the content of submissions received best assists us in meeting our terms of reference. The Commission would like to emphasise that these have been produced for guidance only – all submissions will be considered. However, submissions that answer the following key questions, where relevant, are likely to be most helpful to the Commission in its work.”
The Commission CANNOT disregard your submission because of how you set it out. It simply helps if you arrange your points as suggested in the guidelines – makes it easier for data-capturers to read/digest, which is what you want. Hope this helps.
On your second point, the Commission might well be seen as just a distraction for the disgruntled masses, BUT – Swinney, Fabiani, Harvie and Chapman are not giving up on it. Nor should anyone else. Last man standing and all that!
But seriously folks, they’re in there battling for Scotland and they’re outnumbered. They deserve all the support they can get.
OT: Stand easy it’s all under control!
Revealed: 316 nuclear safety blunders, 71 fires and a drug problem at Faslane
OT: Stand easy it’s all under control!
Revealed: 316 nuclear safety blunders, 71 fires and a drug problem at Faslane
My submission was for Devo-Max, full fiscal autonomy in the truest sense, anything else isn’t what was promised. We must hold Westminster to account.
Where do we stand if UKIP for a coalition with the Tories which has been my best guess at who will end up in power on the next election. UKIP had no part in the “vow”, will they be the get out of jail card Westminster are waiting for?
@steveasaneilean says:
“The slight flaw Rev is that, as far as I understand it, all submissions (including my own) will be available for “public access”. So if 10,000 members of the public submit something and 90% are in favour of full fiscal autonomy yet that is rejected by the Smith Commission then it will be clear for all the world to see that the commission was a stitch up. For that reason alone I think (hope?) my submission was worthwhile.”
Agree with this.
It doesn’t take long to fire off an email, and although it will probably be ignored, we should still demonstrate that the public interest is there for maximum devolution.
As others mentioned, I assume the submissions will simply be roughly lumped into various categories, rather than read in any great detail.
They do want REASONS for powers devolved though, not just a list of powers.
I imagine one of the most effective reasons will be the genuine threat of another referendum with a successful YES vote, if promises and Scottish public opinion is basically ignored.
The issue isn’t just going to go away.
We have to engage with this whether or not its a stitch up. If we don’t, the participation level we’ve all got used to will gradually decline, in a spirit of helplessness … and “It doesn’t matter they’ll only ignore us” is a counsel of despair. But if we do we may swamp them and they may realise we still care enough to bang our heids agin their wall. Better 20,000 than 200.
Arguing for non-participation could equally be used in the 2015 election (they’re all neoliberals at WM so why bother?).
And my response is a damn sight better argued and reasoned than Broon’s vow. So Smith needs to realise the professional political class only have a monopoly on hubris and self aggrandisement – when it comes to reasoned argument we can show them up.
‘There is, however, one small flaw in your plan’, there is no such thing as a ‘clever Labour tactician’.
I’m painting a cartoon pig, and want to make it scary, so some advice would be appreciated: which is scarier – red pupils with a white background, or white pupils on red background? Red on black?…
This one’s quite scary methinks…
link to archive.today
Rancid Graun now tries boost/explain Labour in Scotland collapse with whatever con they sold us for a few years, the dear old blue tories masquerading as progressive liberal types they are,
eg. on their Lamont disaster/triumph, genius/sneering malice
“She is at least the fourth leader to depart fulminating at the UK party’s disastrous failure to adapt to the altered world created by its own successful introduction of a devolved Scottish parliamen
“For the sake of its future in Scotland, that must change. And not only for that reason. Labour is promising wider devolution across the UK. It will be at the heart of its manifesto. It will be a hollow offer if the party continues to fail to deliver it for its own people.”
Another day, another UKOK devo fraud drips out the back end of teamGB hackdom. I have much more respect for Graun’s Steve Bell. At least that reprobate is honest, kind of.
Caz m
I was gonna come through to Glasgow on Thursday to give the Yes Bar some custom.
If you’re telling me there’s a wee demo against the labour party on the same night i’m in.
What a bonus
Stoker says:
26 October, 2014 at 8:17 pm
Like yer style.
I fired off an email to my MP, politely requesting a copy as i needed it to back up my submissions, a few days ago.
I even pointed out it was the one signed by his boss, allegedly.
I’ve not even received an acknowledgement.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
My MP has acknowledged my mail, but after a month is only now checking with Nick Clegg’s office.
I’m astonished that the 3 leaders didn’t send a signed copy to every one of their MPs and MSPs.
Why don’t we all post our submissions here? Then at least the public can read what they were. Here’s mine:
Dear members of the Smith Commission,
Thank you for inviting comments on the process of further devolution. Here are some of the things I would like to see:
– The Scottish Parliament to have full control over all revenue generated in Scotland
– The Scottish Parliament to have the power to veto, within Scotland, any Westminster policy or initiative affecting the environment that could lead to lasting significant damage on Scottish ground, e.g. fracking, nuclear weapons, new nuclear power stations
– The Scottish parliament to have the power to decommission/close down existing nuclear facilities, both civil and military, on Scottish ground
– The Scottish Parliament to have the power to veto, within Scotland, any Westminster policy or initiative that is in breach of human rights, e.g. secret courts, censorship, benefits cards
– The Scottish Parliament to have the power to veto a British exit from the European Union in the event of a majority of the Scottish electorate voting to remain in the European Union
– In the absence of a British constitution, a constitution for Scotland, based on human rights as defined by the United Nations, and with a clear dedication to peace, social justice and the protection of the environment
– The establishment of a Scottish Constitutional Court which would safeguard these constitutional rights
– Guarantees that Scottish interests will be appropriately represented in the European Parliament and not, as we have seen in the past, be side-lined by English interests
– The continuation of the Scottish Parliament to be guaranteed for as long as the people of Scotland desire it to exist
– The right to hold future referenda about independence and similar issues of national interest, e.g. the adoption of a constitution, to be guaranteed
– The general voting age to be dropped to 16 in Scotland, with a view to eventually introducing this UK-wide
– The Scottish parliament to have the power to establish Scotland as a demilitarised zone
– Devolution of BBC Scotland
I would like to point out that even if all these demands would be fulfilled (and the chances of this are very remote indeed) I would still consider Scottish Independence preferable to devolution due to several fundamental flaws in the British political system, namely:
1. The absence of a) a constitution that guarantees human rights and of b) a constitutional court to safeguard these
2. The majority voting system which regularly leads to parliaments that do not adequately represent the will of the electorate
3. The House of Lords
4. The monarchy
As long as these factors are not eliminated, Britain cannot be considered a fully democratic nation. Hereditary public offices like those found in the House of Lords and in the monarchy are in breach of human rights as defined by the United Nations and of civil rights as defined by the European Union. I am aware that many people in Britain tolerate these undemocratic institutions as part of their heritage. Since I was born and raised in Germany, I have no such sentimental delusions and can see them for what they are. Unless I get the opportunity to become a citizen of a fully democratic British federal republic with a constitution as good as or better than the constitution of Germany, I will continue to work towards an independent Scottish republic.
People… whichever constituency the new Labour Leader is standing for… I propose Wings crowdfund and make extra effort to support the SNP and make sure Labour bite the dust.
What do you think?
Do we have enough muscle?
Well I have to say I’m quite disappointed and I disagree with you for perhaps the first time ever Wings. There are electronic surveys (my own MSP has one on her website, the results of which will be submitted as a batch) which makes data collection easier. 10,000 paper responses to a survey take almost next to no time to analyse. 1 data entry clerk would likely get through 10,000 check box responses received by paper in a few days. The free text comments would likely take longer but certainly not a month and with the right software could be analysed by 1 person in a matter of days.
“There are electronic surveys (my own MSP has one on her website, the results of which will be submitted as a batch) which makes data collection easier. 10,000 paper responses to a survey take almost next to no time to analyse.”
Indeed they don’t – the Smith Commission SPECIFICALLY told people not to send in check-box/form submissions, so those will go STRAIGHT in the bin.
@Annette Wunderbar! Excellent!
Ian,
black on red.
Ian Brotherhood
Much too attractive, I’d vote for her. Errr.
I just watched the Brewer Sarwar interview. Fair dos to Brewer he really dismantled Sarwar. Short but very revealing.
Sarwar basically says we are all very grateful to Johann but everything she says is pish. You couldn’t make this stuff up. It is like a In The Thick Of It script.
Caz_m will be there on Thurs night , pity todays outing cancelled.
Stoker its to a change in the Electorial register & the Open Electorial register,the Open register anyone can pay the Council & get a copy for whatever purpose.
I agree it is a waste of time in terms of trying to influence the outcome. That said, just as I gain something from articulating my thoughts on Wings, I found it quite cathartic to work through an argument for Smith to read, aware as I was that it would never see the light of day.
Think of it as a little light homework working through what Smith’s comission should come up with and why.
Of course, after I had worked this all out in my own manner, I found out that I was over 5000 characters and in the process of editing it down I managed to accidently paste something over the whole bleedin thing and lost it.
“Wot the SNP said” it is then.
By the way, look at the guidelines on the website and then try and put your proposals within 5000 characters – impossible. What is expressly rejected – the shopping list approach of a simple list of demands is much more suited to the length constraint than trying to articulate a proper evidence based argument for Devo-Max in a few of short paragraphs.
We were promised full devo anyway so why we need a comission to talk about it escapes me.
10,000 people.
0.2% of the Scottish population were in favour of new powers for Scotland. The rest weren’t.
That’s what they’ll say.
They’ll use it to kill any calls for indyref2.
We have to engage with this whether or not its a stitch up. If we don’t, the participation level we’ve all got used to will gradually decline, in a spirit of helplessness … and “It doesn’t matter they’ll only ignore us” is a counsel of despair. But if we do we may swamp them and they may realise we still care enough to bang our heids agin their wall. Better 20,000 than 200.
Arguing for non-participation could equally be used in the 2015 election (they’re all neoliberals at WM so why bother?).
And my response is a damn sight better argued and reasoned than Broon’s vow. So Smith needs to realise the professional political class only have a monopoly on hubris and self aggrandisement – when it comes to reasoned argument we can show them up.
I like Annette’s points about the German constitution – it’s light years better than our medieval system
Folks.
A lot of people are saying that we should all make a contribution, no matter how small, I agree.
But, nobody yet has put a link to where we can do this.
Thanks in advance, as I feel another Guinness coming on.
Are we just going from dodgy postal voting shenanigans straight to dodgy email submissions ?
Dear smith comisshun, no more powers please, its all bwilliant here!!
@flipper.trough.co.ukok
I sent an email to the Commision stating that I fully endorse the SNP proposals for Devo Max.
I just wanted to make sure that no excuses would be made that there was a lack of interest from the public, we all don’t need to type a 20 page proposal, just one single line that I typed is in my view sufficient as it meant that I have read the SNP proposal and fully endorsed it
castle hills chavie says:
26 October, 2014 at 10:17 pm
Folks.
A lot of people are saying that we should all make a contribution, no matter how small, I agree.
But, nobody yet has put a link to where we can do this.
Thanks in advance, as I feel another Guinness coming on.
link to smith-commission.scot
@ Annette, brilliant! I have nicked it or as the greatest artists always say, I am influenced by your excellent work:D
@castle hills chavie
Here’s the link.
link to smith-commission.scot
FWIW I wasn’t going to send anything but this article made me decide to do just that. It wasn’t much, but it’s the principle.
“Regarding the process and discussions on further powers for the Scottish Parliament my views are straight forward.
The Scottish government must be responsible for the raising and spending of all taxes generated in Scotland.”
I requested, among other stuff, full control over broadcasting.
I don’t suppose they will ever devolve broadcasting control to Holyrood, but I would sure like to hear their excuse for not doing so.
Cheers Luigi.
Another Guinness primed and ready to be o’er tha thrapple.
They know 1.6million voted YES and the majority didn’t vote NO.
5.2Million in Scotland. Only 2Million voted NO.
What happened to the Chilcott Verdict from 5 years? Ago. Mason Brown has buried it secretly, again. Secrecy and lies. They sup their fine wines while people sleep on the streets.
Andrew Wilson says:
26 October, 2014 at 8:55 pm
My submission was for Devo-Max, full fiscal autonomy in the truest sense, anything else isn’t what was promised. We must hold Westminster to account.
Anything less will be an insult to 70% of the population that want DevoMax
.
Please email your responses to haveyoursay@smith-commission.scot
Perhaps some folk would be interested in submitting something along the lines of mine: that both the Faroe Islands and Greenland are part of the Kingdom of Denmark, but look after their internal affairs and are free to decide for themselves about EU membership. Those links have worked stably within Europe and are the best examples of how to manage relationships known to us.
@castle hills chavie,I hope thats the rite addy.
I e-mailed them before they put up a web form, so wasn’t restricted in length. I’m sure you can also send them a letter by post.
@angelswithdirtyfaces: The German constitution is not without flaws and is also beginning to show its age (for example sexual orientation isn’t listed in the “Nobody shall be discriminated against on the basis of…” clause.). Nevertheless, it’s till pretty good. Just think how great a bright, shiny, brand new modern Scottish constitution would be!
farrochie says:
26 October, 2014 at 9:30 pm
My MP has acknowledged my mail, but after a month is only now checking with Nick Clegg’s office.
I’m astonished that the 3 leaders didn’t send a signed copy to every one of their MPs and MSPs.
________________________________
Mmmmm, interesting to see how this pans out.
See if i get a similar response as you.
I’ve also made it clear i don’t want a copy of the front page
of the DR, that i need a copy of the original proper document
as it is extremely important to supporting my submissions.
I know fine well it doesn’t exist but i want them to tell me that.
I am not on the fence at all on this. I wont be submitting anything. WHAT IS THE POINT. As you say, WHAT IS THE POINT. As if it would make one single IOTA of a difference. THere have been commissions already that concluded that Scotland should have extensive further powers, what happened, well, those in charge read the report, then said, well their not getting that, black penned it and through it in the bin. Do you honestly believe they wont do the same. They have it now, we lost the referendum, were their bitches!
Just submit
Dear Mr Smith Unionist stooge
as @ Annette 26 October, 2014 at 9.46 pm x 3.2Million
That should do it : – (
Or, awey an’ boil yer heid Smithy : – )
castle hills chavie says:
26 October, 2014 at 10:17 pm
Folks.
A lot of people are saying that we should all make a contribution, no matter how small, I agree.
But, nobody yet has put a link to where we can do this.
Thanks in advance, as I feel another Guinness coming on.
__________________
The links appeared on various WOS threads over the past weeks.
Here it is again, just click the link then click on
“Have your say”, then take it from there.
link to smith-commission.scot
I don’t have to do what you tell me. YOU’RE NOT MY REAL DAD
Anyway, I also realise the futility of the task, but I found value in the exercise of writing it for my own benefit, if not for the Commission’s.
link to wildernessofpeace.wordpress.com
Dear Lord Smith,
As you are aware, 1,617,989 Scots voted for independence on the 18th of September 2014. I am confident in saying that, in the event of a No vote, each one of those voters would demand as many powers devolved to the Scottish Parliament as possible, by virtue of their support for complete sovereignty from Westminster. If they voted to have all powers, then I cannot see that position changing in the event of Scotland remaining in the UK.
As such, I would argue that the obvious goal for the Smith Commission is to devolve every power possible to the Scottish Parliament, and ensure that those powers currently devolved, remain devolved. Rather than arguing a case for why any particular power should be devolved, the argument must instead be why any particular power should remain reserved to Westminster. Such powers include, but are not limited to:
Full Fiscal Autonomy
Income tax
Corporation tax
Currency
Pensions
Economics
Oil & gas revenues
Mining & Fracking
Energy Regulation
Renewable Energy
Human Rights
Education
Law
Health
Welfare
Charities
Proceeds of Crime (“Cashback for Communities”)
VAT
Defence
Nuclear Deterrent
Foreign policy
Trade & industry
Agriculture
Fisheries & Dairy
Food & Drink
Transport
Energy regulation
Constitution
Crown Estates & Affairs
Civil service
National security
Immigration
Media
Broadcasting
Resources
Coastguard and Maritime Affairs
Internal Affairs
Insolvency powers
Time powers
Land
Presence in Europe
Presence in NATO
Space exploration
Science & Technology
If the Smith Commission concludes a power should remain reserved to Westminster, then the Commission must provide a full and detailed explanation as to why that power should remain in the hands of the UK Government, rather than the Scottish Government.
While the people of Scotland had no say in your appointment, in the interests of good faith and confidence, we hope that you use your influence as a Lord to gain the best possible outcome for the people of Scotland.
I am at your disposal to answer any questions you may have in regards to these matters.
Sincerely,
Al Harron
Basically, I want New Labour in Scotland, the Tories and Lib Dems to explain exactly why certain things should be reserved – and without saying “because we’re one nation/it would undermine the UK/ it’s TOO MUCH power fur us tae handle!” or something along those lines.
I don’t think they were anticipating this number of responses – the guidelines on the website relating to treatment of submissions suggest that they will publish some but not necessarily all of the submissions.
Just imagine the tomes – Encyclopedia Britannica would look like a mere series of brochures were they to publish all our submissions! It would be ludicrous.
Having something on their site that says they plan to actually read all submissions would be a start. But then this process is an extension of the vow and as such is just meaningless feelgood gibberish that amounts to nothing concrete.
Have you noticed how all these unionist tactics are so rushed and panicky? Ill thought through? I had to laugh when unionist after unionist insisted the most important consideration in electing a new Scottish leader of labour was to do so as quickly as possible.
Will they ever learn?
For folk wanting to submit quines for indy have posted up a template letter and say feel free to use and adapt if you wish
link to indyquines.blogspot.co.uk
I gave my view that Independence is the only logical sustainable solution. But I don’t really expect any submission containing the word Independence to be considered.
My submission would be for independence. What else would you submit?
Perhaps the Sunday Herald would consider publishing a few open submissions from ordinary people, just to keep the pressure on.
testing testing
Reminds me of Ben Elton’s book Chart Throb. Its a piss take of the TV x factor/pop idol thing. These programs make you believe the judges sit through all the auditions. In the book, they shit all over the idea, something tells me, Lord whats-his-pus wont have lots of lackies to go through viable submissions only putting through those that are worthy of attention.
Ah well. Another fudge, plus ca change etc.
FWIW, I do agree with Rev, largely because I haven’t the will to compose anything, however short – direct contact with any of these characters seems utterly futile.
But those who have taken the time to set down their thoughts – some excellent examples have been posted above – should be congratulated on their positivity. The sheer volume of submissions is, in itself, important.
Put it this way – if the Indyref result had been t’other way around, and the ‘losing’ BTUKOKers were then asked to submit proposals for solid constitutional changes based on a vague promise from leaders of the Yes-backing parties? how many submissions would it have received by now?
I emailed the Smith Commission with the expectation that he will fulfill the promises made by the Better Together spokesmen i.e. for Devo Max/Home Rule/Federalism and to the timetable published.
Two reasons:
1 If people don’t respond then he will have an excuse to say that nobody was interested.
2 I’m taking the advice of the Great Helmsman to
a) join something (I joined the SNP) and
b) “hold their feet to the fire”.
If nothing like Devo Max is offered by 30th November then we have good reason to demand full independence since the majority were for yes until they made that panic promise of Devo Max in the last few days. Which broke the Edinburgh Agreement.
I feel involved with the scottish independence issue for several reasons but as irish i cannot send any submission to the smith commission.
I would encourage everyone else to do so because you need to make your voices heard – whether they are listened to or not.
If you don’t know what to write or are unsure just copy any one of the proposals outlined above by diverse posters and e mail it, even if if does not fully express your point of view. it will suffice.
As irish i appreciate Wings non co-operation (how could I not?) but scotland is where it is today and has to maximise gains, from whatever source – whether Smith is/is not influenced by responses can be turned to the YES advantage
Having said all that – completely O/T – the hamster is dead! have a look at link to eurofree3.wordpress.com
hope it raises a smile!!! we’re winning!
Was the Edinburgh Agreement ‘fit’ for breaking?
What did it legally mean?
Why was the purdah period not enforceable and if it was who would have been responsible to see it was upheld?
Like the infamous ‘VOW’ – who is going to dishonour it and if so, who’s going to make them stick by what they vowed Scotland and how?
If Lord Smith cannot come up with positive answers, as proposals – he would be as well go and play with his train-set.
I’ve just been carrying out some major overhauling of what laughing passes for my laptop and just want to see if I can post here. For some obscure reason I can’t post on other sites.
Confused … you soon will be if you stick around and read this post.
@Capella
“If nothing like Devo Max is offered by 30th November then we have good reason to demand full independence since the majority were for yes until they made that panic promise of Devo Max in the last few days. Which broke the Edinburgh Agreement.”
This really ought to be straightforward. Legally, the contract is broken. But everyone is ignoring the law. What kind of country is this? I’ll tell you what kind. This is the country of the Bully. The Bully breaks the Law; what are you Scots plebs going to do about it? You can do nothing about it. Why, because what I say goes and no one can stand up to me. I am the Bully. The playground is mine.
Stoker
Faisal Islam tweeted the other day about the emails going back and forward between the grandees of Labour and the Tories.
Someone knows who cobbled together the vow and there must be emails to prove it.
The Daily Record editor knows , the Sky correspondent knows , it’s just the public who are not privvy .
This trick was pulled before, in 2000.
The UK govt launched a “consultation” on the NHS National Plan … which turned out to have been printed before the consultation was launched
Brian Powell at 5.34pm
‘You are in the way’
That sums up these dinosaurs and their processes succinctly.
The people need to be in control and to tell the servants of the people what is to be done
I just watched a recording of Anas Sarwar on the sunday politics show intereviewed by Gordon Brewer. He lied. There you go. a non-existent party with a clean slate and they can do no other than lie about who got the heave from the cabal. What hope for the future if the present is all predicated on a lie? I for one am sick of being bare-faced lied to. We are being asked to believe that everybody works tirelessly and selflessly for this non-existent party and that they all resign honourably with no gagging clause inserted up their arse before they are shoved. Really?
paul gerard mccormack
I couoldn’t believe that Gordon Brewer actually held him to account and did not allow the usual waffle. I was reminded of a public Meeting in Clydebank when he was howled down by an angry audience,who forcibly reminded him he was not on the BBC noo and to answer the question. Eventually they drowned out his waffle with cries of “Out!” Out!”.
I contributed to it. I particularly emphasized the need for immigration rights in Scotland to issue Scotland only visas, a bit like Hong Kong Special Admin area deal with China. Its not hard to make a work/study/study then stay type visa for employment or study in Scotland only as its a very defined area.
We need new talent (and to stop our own going away) and the South needs to stem the tide..solution..Scottish Visa Service.
Of course Id rather have indy but Ill take what I can get just now while campaigning for it.
SSBA
Dundee United Supporters for an Independent Scotland
link to facebook.com
I also think it’s important to send in a submission if for no other reason than to let them know what we expect and that we’re not going away
This is mine
“As a Scottish citizen and supporter of full independance for my country I have to accept the result of the recent referendum in spite of the lies, misinformation and scaremongering inflicted on the Scottish people by the UK Unionist coillition and mainstream media.
I respectfully ask the commission uphold the coersive promises made by the UK Prime Minister David Cameron, Nick Clegg & Ed Milliband as proposed by our national ("Tractor" - Ed) Gordon Brown MP to the Scottish people to devolve all political powers possible within the United Kingdom framework (DEVOMAX) in particular full tax raising powers including all oil revenues so they can be levied for the benefit of the Scottish people to whome it belongs.
Only forgien affairs, defence & currency control to be retained by the United Kingdom government
I would also ask the commision to seriously consider granting the Scottish parliament full control of broadcasting within Scotland
I trust you will consider my submission in good faith”
I haven’t responded either. Simply because if Westminster sees fit to rig voting counts, as they did, to keep Scotland under her thumb, they are hardly likely to give us any powers worth having, are they?
They will never give us ANYTHING of note, anything of value, anything that might conceivably be detrimental to their power over our resources and finances.
UDI, that is my hope. Might be a dim one but I’m hoping they give us nothing, and that Scotland gets some backbone and TAKES back our country without caring what England wants.
Annette said
Why don’t we all post our submissions here?
Good idea Annette
Heres mine written on 10/10/14
“Full fiscal autonomy Scotland was promised and full fiscal autonomy we should have, there is need need for a commission, the agreement was laid out by the “VOW” there is no going back , we need to have a fully devolved parliament with full tax raising powers including North sea oil revenue with Westminster carrying responsibility for defence and foreign affairs nothing more.
NOTHING LESS WILL BE ACCEPTABLE!”
In order to save himself Mason Brown has destroyed his Party. Just like he destroyed Britain. Secrecy and lies. Getting found out.
Hi guys,
Just a wee reminder that there will be less newspapers sold today in Scotland than were sold last Monday in Scotland.There are thousands less unionists than a month ago.REMEMBER THE BBC.We need to have little chats with folk each day to undermine confidence in the state broadcaster.This is our campaign for independence.
Unionist free by 2016. That’s a start.
Look at the wider perspective. The NUMBER of responses will be a matter of record. So it’s not just about giving your views to the Commission. It’s also a message to every MP in every seat that nobody’s giving up, nobody’s going away.
No matter what, this Genie is NOT going back in the bottle.
To victors the spoils. There’s no point in being an imperial master if you’re not going to be richer than god.
From the Herald who fought so hard for this nonsense union because we’re too small poor stupid. That last bits true,
“WELL DRILLED: Lord Smith of Kelvin said there was a capable skills base in Scotland to develop fracking. Picture: Mark Mainz
Lord Smith of Kelvin highlighted how much of the manufacturing in other energy technologies such as nuclear and wind comes from outside the UK.
He believes that could be reversed for fracking and pointed out Weir Group, where he is chairman, already has about 30% of the fracking market in the US.”
If nothing else, you could at least say you want broadcasting devolved and why.
Surely that’s worth a couple of sentences in an e-mail.
Luigi
Perhaps the Sunday Herald would consider publishing a few open submissions from ordinary people, just to keep the pressure on.
Great idea – can I suggest anyone who has their submission sends to letters@sundayherald.com.
paul gerard mccormack
Anas is a company man through and through. There is very little of Anas Sarwar left now – its just labour spin there now. Take his voting record- a man who has never voted against the labour party line, NOT ONCE, is just parroting a script fed to him.
He doesn’t deviate because he doesn’t know how. I hope Anas gets the job – we could then plan a wake for SLAB right now.
And as you say Paul, now they have a chance to be honest, Frank and start again – trouble is they are much more comfortable lying than telling the truth.
Lord Smith is a Unionist liar. Scotland is surplus in energy (25%) and exports it. Doesn’t need to import it from anywhere. Recently for the first time Renewables (wind?) outproduced nuclear (the dearest and more dangerous).
Thought we were trying to save the world. Not create an unnecessary paper chase. A complete waste of paper, time and money.
Unionist free by 2016. Just vote SNP.
James Harrington, in his ‘Commonwealth of Oceana’, a civic-republican utopia published in 1653, argued that constitution-making could not be conveniently done with the people, nor safely without them. He though that, on the one hand, the people had to feel they were involved and had some ownership over the outcome; but on the other hand, if these decisions were to be made by ordinary people who don’t know any better, we’d end up with an unworkable mess. His solution was to have a constitution-building mechanism whereby any citizen could make suggestions. There would be a big office for this purpose, and all the suggestions would be taken very seriously indeed. Then a few people in a room would get together and actually hammer out a deal. The people would have the impression of being listened to, but in reality it would be a stitch-up (for their own good, of course, all done by characters of the highest integrity, wisdom, honour, and dedication to the public weal). Nice to know we’ve moved on in the last 350 years.
“My Lord Archon, in opening the Council of legislators, made it appear how unsafe a thing it is to follow fancy in the fabric of a commonwealth; and how necessary that the archives of ancient prudence should be ransacked before any councillor should presume to offer any other matter in order to the work in hand, or toward the consideration to be had by the Council upon a model of government. Wherefore he caused an urn to be brought, and every one of the councillors to draw a lot. By the lots as they were drawn,
The Commonwealth of Fell to
Israel…… Phosphorus de Auge
Athens….. Navarchus de Paralo
Lacedaemon….. Laco de Scytale
Carthage.. Mago de Syrtibus
The Achaeans, AEtolians, and Lycians….Aratus de Isthmo
The Switz Alpester de Fulmine
Holland and the United Provinces Glaucus de Ulna
Rome…… Dolabella de Enyo
Venice….. Lynceus de Stella
These contained in them all those excellencies whereof a commonwealth is capable; so that to have added more had been to no purpose. Upon time given to the councillors, by their own studies and those of their friends, to prepare themselves, they were opened in the order, and by the persons mentioned at the Council of legislators, and afterward by order of the same were repeated at the council of the prytans to the people; for in drawing of the lots, there were about a dozen of them inscribed with the letter P, whereby the councillors that drew them became prytans.
The prytans were a committee or council sitting in the great hall of Pantheon, to whom it was lawful for any man to offer anything in order to the fabric of the commonwealth; for which cause, that they might not be oppressed by the throng, there was a rail about the table where they sat, and on each side of the same a pulpit; that on the right hand for any man that would propose anything, and that on the left for any other that would oppose him. And all parties (being indemnified by proclamation of the Archon) were invited to dispute their own interests, or propose whatever they thought fit (in order to the future government) to the council of the prytans, who, having a guard of about two or three hundred men, lest the heat of dispute might break the peace, had the right of moderators, and were to report from time to time such propositions or occurrences as they thought fit, to the Council of legislators sitting more privately in the palace called Alma.
This was that which made the people (who were neither safely to be admitted, nor conveniently to be excluded in the framing of the commonwealth) verily believe, when it came forth, that it was no other than that whereof they themselves had been the makers.
Moreover, this Council sat divers months after the publishing and during the promulgation of the model to the people; by which means there is scarce anything was said or written for or against the said model but you shall have it with the next impression of this work, by way of oration addressed to and moderated by the prytans.
By this means the Council of legislators had their necessary solitude and due aim in their greater work, as being acquainted from time to time with the pulse of the people, and yet without any manner of interruption or disturbance.”
The Weir Group are corrupt, were fined. False accounting, in debt etc.
Taken from today’s Scotsman:
Mr Murphy was yesterday understood to be discussing with his family whether to make a bid for the Scottish leadership. One of his backers said: “It would mean taking a cut in salary, running for the Scottish Parliament and ending his career at Westminster, so there is a lot for Jim to think about.”
link to archive.today
There you have it. Consideration one for this extremely wealthy man: his MPS salary. Can you imagine Alex Salmond talking about his wages as a consideration at such a time? Or Nicola Sturgeon?
Please stand Jim. Pretty please. With cherries on top.
UKOK Unionism is corrupt. Its whole ethos is corrupt. Get in, take everything, terrorise the natives, make them feel safe.
Another crappy vote Labour or else Scotland thing from rancid old Graun who also promote/demote oor Anas this morning, multi millionaire Anas daddys boy Anas.
“An MP can be elected – provided that individual then seeks to be Labour’s candidate for first minister at the Holyrood elections in 2016.
The alternatives are a new generation of MSPs: Anas Sarwar, Lamont’s deputy, and Kezia Dugdale. “
Slightly O/T, but not entirely unconnected.
According to the ‘national’ news on UK TV this morning, the UK Government has outlined plans for a new high speed rail link to connect Northern cities. High speed 3 (HS3), will offer a ‘revolution in Northern journey times.
I for one am looking forward to this high speed revolution connecting the UK’s northern cities. Just imagine, high speed rail from Aberdeen to Inverness, then on to the Kyle of Lochalsh and Fort William.
It will be worth every penny of the estimated 4.65 billion pounds of Scottish taxes which will be used to pay for it.
Molly says:
27 October, 2014 at 1:38 am
Stoker
Faisal Islam tweeted the other day about the emails going back and forward between the grandees of Labour and the Tories.
Someone knows who cobbled together the vow and there must be emails to prove it.
The Daily Record editor knows , the Sky correspondent knows , it’s just the public who are not privvy .
____________________________________
Thank you for that, Molly.
I still very much doubt “a document” ever existed.
Going by what you’ve stated and what we witnessed (front page DR),
it looks increasingly likely that a very hastily arranged pact
was made between the 3 unionist parties (over the phone) with
Labour taking the lead, to their man at the DR and Crash Broon.
Time will most definately tell because the truth will out.
One way or another the truth ALWAYS gets out.
PS: If this “Edinburgh Agreement” was broken and, as some have
claimed, laws have been broken then should this not be getting
pursued vigorously with a view to having those responsible put
in jail? Then go for a declaration of Independence?
Stoker
Like you I doubt a proper agreement exists but surely something has to be produced if only for historical reasons.
In years to come do the historians say ” then came the vow” to study that you’ll need to get a copy of the Daily Record? Is that the amount of contempt they have for Scotland ?
Nah rhetorical question.
Tam,
I know you’ve archived the article but i still wouldn’t go near
that rag if you paid me. Just wanted to make a wee observation
going by what you’ve told us.
That could mean that its Murphy who is getting the vacant post
of manager at the Scottish branch office of UK Labour.
They might already be promoting him, ie; awe look at oor Jim,
see wit a great guy he is, jist look at the sacrificies that
man is making, he’s paure laybur frew n frew, hiz comitment is
paure dead brulliant so it iz etc etc etc.
I know you’ve been saying you want it to be him and for similar
reasons i agree with you but i don’t know if my heart could
stand up to the extreme blood pressure levels.
I hate the slimy b@st@rd with a passion.
The very site of the weirdo creep makes my blood boil.
Mind you, i get a similar reaction to all the other ("Tractor" - Ed)s.
Molly says:
27 October, 2014 at 8:40 am
In years to come do the historians say ” then came the vow” to study that you’ll need to get a copy of the Daily Record? Is that the amount of contempt they have for Scotland ?
Nah rhetorical question.
_______________________
@Tim Jardine
“He doesn’t deviate because he doesn’t know how. I hope Anas gets the job – we could then plan a wake for SLAB right now.”
What a good idea. A Soviet style funeral procession for SLAB with Matt Lygate in his rickshaw blaring out the Funeral Mach
link to youtube.com
I wrote a submission because I would not be surprised if there has been a letter writing campaign by those of unionist persuasion for the minimal/non-existant devo.
Whilst the Yes campaign was honest during indyref; it was also a little naive and wasn’t prepared for the BetterTogether dirty tricks. I think the Smith commission has the hallmarks of a dirty trick being played on the people of Scotland and we’re even less prepared than before.
SLab are totally and completely out of touch with reality, and the electorate. They put party before all else. After their antics of the last 1-2-5-8 years, their support is in decline. After being Tory frontmen and lying mouthpieces in the referendum they are further down, and perhaps even out!
How can this trend be turned around? Not a clue! The job of branch leader is a thankless dead end, a poison chalice to anyone’s career prospects.
I hope they chose someone who deserves the role!
HS2 is a waste of public money, no business case. No custom base. While the vulnerable are sleeping on the streets.
Hi John King. My submission was along the same lines as yours. We were promised devo max, all powers except foreign affairs and defence. All monies due to us including oil. What we were promised nothing less will do.
I also reminded him that we are watching carefully and that we are not going away. WE ARE NO DONE YET.
I asked Smith for Fiscal and Legislature Autonomy except Defence and Foreign Policy. I also emailed Ming Campbell asking for a copy of the Vow. No reply, even automated, from him yet!
Morning call is covering the Labour Party,s demise. Asking the listeners who would they like to be elected as England,s Labour Party leader in Scotland. It’s hilarious! The yessers are doing well this morning! Well done you guys! That’s labour told!
I have sent in my submission, here it is summarised;
“INDEPENDENCE and NOTHING but INDEPENDENCE. You can stick DEVO-MINUS, DEVO-PLUS and DEVO-MAX up your ERMINED ARSE”
I think I have put my arguement well.
My submission simply asked that the Prime Minister, Deputy Prime Minister, leader of the Opposition and of course former Prime Minister GB keep their promises! Independence is the only answer to their refusal to keep their promise!
Don’t reply. It’s a trap. The will be used against Scotland. An excuse for illegal wars and Trident, while the most vulnerable suffer.
They know 1.6million voted YES and a minority voted NO. 2million to 5.2million. 3.2million did not vote NO. They know that already.
Unionist free by 2016. Vote SNP
Jackie baillie is on the radio this morning trying to backtrack the fact that they sold us out bastards..
I am so angry with these people trying to make out that they have been hard done to AARGH
Come on Rev, thats almost 24 hours and no comedy piece on Anas Sarwar with Gordon Brewer? ( lets leave Ian Smarts performance for another day)
Im still laughing at his “Theres HR considerations ongoing” style defence when asked about Jolas man at arms getting the Apanish Archer.
I just sat there wondering “Why would there be any HR considerations if the guy simply resigned?..more skeletons in the cupboard await us?”. Oh dear Anas, me thinks the Leadership isnt for you despite your ranting about 75% of the party choosing you as deputy dawg.
Ken500,
Can you explain your numbers, they don’t make sense to me. You know that children can’t vote?
Perhaps I’m naive, but I think any further cooperation with the state is a bad idea. It only provides it aid or will be manipulated to the state’s interests. It has already shown it cares little for democracy, so might it not be disillusion to think your opinion will now bring about the change you desire.
No voters, you had your chance, now live with your shame.
I’d been swithering about making a submission, and drafted a few words last week. On balance I’m convinced by those auguring that engagement is key to longer term success – just as happened with voter registration.
So for once Rev, sorry but I think you got it wrong. However, in doing so you have encouraged more folks to think and talk about it, and some to take action. So job done, and my submission in
!
Taranaich you put it much better than me – but I like your thinking …
The principle underpinning the role of your Commission should be to deliver a coherent set of devolved controls which best satisfy the stated aspirations of most Scots voters. There has been much talk since the Referendum regarding the “settled will of Scots” being to remain within the UK. Since this desire expressed by 55% must clearly be accepted I hope that your Commission will give even stronger recognition and weighting to the “settled will” of a larger majority who wish ALL areas of controls (other than Defence and Foreign Policy) to reside with the Scottish Parliament.
The majority holding this view lies in the range of 60-80% (dependant on the specific area under discussion); evidence for this comes primarily from the recent Scottish Social Attitudes Survey, and 2014 Opinion Polls, and are discussed in some detail by Prof. John Curtice here: link to blog.whatscotlandthinks.org
It is possible that there may be some specific instances where control can only be retained at the UK level, however I would contend that since the settled will is for all domestic areas to be devolved that this should be the default assumption. The burden of proof must therefore lie with those on your Commission arguing that a particular power requires to be reserved to UK level show that this is clearly the case, and to gain clear support within your Commission of representatives of substantially greater than 50% of Scots voters (based on votes cast at the last Scottish Parliament Election). Any such exceptions should be as narrow as possible, clearly documented and the full justification for each published for public analysis.
One particular area of Scottish Parliament control which I would highlight would be in the area of Broadcasting and Press Regulation. Given the distinctly different priorities at a UK level, and the natural reliance there on the basis of English rather than Scots Law I would ask that your Commission ensure that this area is fully devolved.
In anticipation,
gillie says:
27 October, 2014 at 9:37 am
I have sent in my submission, here it is summarised;
“INDEPENDENCE and NOTHING but INDEPENDENCE. You can stick DEVO-MINUS, DEVO-PLUS and DEVO-MAX up your ERMINED ARSE”
I think I have put my arguement well.
I think we can safely say your request went straight to the bin.
_______________________________
Flower of Scotland says:
27 October, 2014 at 9:30 am
“I asked Smith for Fiscal and Legislature Autonomy except Defence and Foreign Policy. I also emailed Ming Campbell asking for a copy of the Vow. No reply, even automated, from him yet!”
There seems to be a wee pattern forming here when a Fib Dem is
asked for a copy of “the vow” – no reply came the answer!
_______________________________
Capella says:
27 October, 2014 at 9:00 am
“What a good idea. A Soviet style funeral procession for SLAB with Matt Lygate in his rickshaw blaring out the Funeral March”
And i’ve got first shout on being head grave digger.
It’s not that i don’t trust anyone, you understand, just an overwhelming desire to make sure the job is done correctly.
For what it’s worth here’s my submission. I agree it probably won’t be read, but on balance I’d rather the bastirts were swamped and couldn’t say naebody bothered. Ye’re gonnae get whit ye’re gonnae get oaneyweys!
The least that can now happen is that Scotland has Full Fiscal Autonomy. This would mean that decisions based on Scotland’s wealth and wellbeing would be made in Scotland, rather by an elite based in the South East part of another country. Scotland would then pay for any UK services still provided to Scotland.
This would also have the effect of giving the lie to the notion often expressed in the media and by certain politicians, that Scotland is somehow subsidised by the rest of the UK. It would give transparency to where all money is raised and where it is spent. At present Uk governments are in denial about the huge sums raised by Scottish oil and whisky, and squandered by the parasitic and morally (and potentially financially) bankrupt UK.
Broadcasting needs to be devolved as well. We’ve just seen the results of a referendum stolen by extremely dodgy practices by unionist parties, including totally one sided coverage by labour controlled BBC.
in response to those on this thread, i relented and posted my submission to the commission
still not convinced it will achieve anything
o/t
for any mp to be the new leader, wouldnt they need to have a bye election for a seat in holyrood?
if jola is gone, they will need someone temporary
@ gfaetheblock 27 October 2014 at 10.01 am
So do the Unionist. Their parents can and there are also non voters. Non voters did not vote NO
There’s the answer how many non voters. It’s not as cut and dry as they think.
The know the statistics. There is no need for this Commission. It’s a trap and a trick. To keep Scotland tied to a malicious Union. Trident, illegal lies and the vulnerable suffering. If there are any negoitiations to be done let the elected Scottish Gov do it and publish the results.
Tomkins, Curtice, McCrone et al are Unionist stooges using Scottish public money to canvass against Scotland. Greedy, ignorant liars. They should be stopped. Smith is a Unionist stooge wasting taxpayers money.
jackie g says:
27 October, 2014 at 9:57 am
“Jackie baillie is on the radio this morning trying to backtrack the fact that they sold us out bastards..
I am so angry with these people trying to make out that they have been hard done to AARGH”
________________________
That is why it is so important that every action possible,
individually and collectively, should be taken against the BBC
at every single opportunity.
It is a Slabber Unionist propaganda machine and i’ve said it
many times before, forget all about any other ins and outs about
devolution powers – it does not matter what “powers” we end up
with, if any, we as a country will be constantly peeing against
the wind if we don’t have control of broadcasting.
Without full control of broadcasting, with broadcasters having
to answer to OUR parliament and politicians the BBC will always
act in the interests of its London masters.
Keep London out of Scotland – kill off the red tories – vote SNP
Sorry,
That last paragraph in my post @ 10.43 should read:
“Without full control of broadcasting and press regulation
the BBC etc will always act in the interests of their London masters.”
Keep London out of Scotland – Kill off the red tories – vote SNP
@Taranaich:
Genius! Absolutely, reverse the burden of proof!
Stop listening/watching the BBC. No viewers listeners. No programmes. Or as little possible just to check out the enemy. The BBC is canvassing against Scotland. The need for impartiality, gives a false report.
On the other hand Baillie et al shows up as a complete useless idiot. Making folks angry and losing Labour votes.
Unionist free by 2016. Vote SNP
Ken500 says:
27 October, 2014 at 10:42 am
@ gfaetheblock 27 October 2014 at 10.01 am
THERE WERE 4,285,323 REGISTERED TO VOTE AS RECORDED BY THE ELECTORAL COMMISSION.
THE NO VOTE GOT 2,001,926 WHICH IS JUST BELOW 47% OF THE REGISTERED VOTE.
THE YES VOTE WAS DECLARED AS 1,617,989 WHICH IS JUST BELOW 38% OF THE REGISTERED VOTE.
A REMARKABLE 665,408 VOTERS WERE REGISTERED TO VOTE, BUT THEIR VOTES WERE NOT DECLARED – CALL IT DIRTY TRICKS, IF YOU SO BELIEVE IT POSSIBLE, OR CALL IT VOTER INDOLENCE, WHICH IS WHAT MAKES IT ALL THE MORE REMARKABLE GIVEN THE UNPRECEDENTED VERY HIGH LEVEL OF VOTER ENGAGEMENT IN THE REFERENDUM. THESE NON-VOTES ACCOUNTED FOR OVER 15%.
IT’S FAIR TO SAY THAT ‘NO’ DID NOT WIN A MAJORITY OF THE REGISTERED VOTE, WHICH IS VERY SIGNIFICANT.
Every voice matters. IF you do not make a submission you cannot complain about your voice not being heard.
I wrote my letter to Santa.
My wish list included devolved broadcasting and control over all revenues from Scotland.
Just waiting for the wee Elf’s and Rudolf to drop in by for a chat
It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if the public submissions system was abused to reflect a lower negotiating pitch. We have no idea how many submissions they have received. I have no doubt that labour members will be mirroring their parties offers of additional powers. For that reason only I will submit my views in the hope that the majority mirror my own hopes of maximum devolved powers.
I put in my tupenceworth because we got the chance to speak, maybe it wont be taken into consideration but it wont be because they said you got your opportunity and didn`t take it.
Reluctantly I have to agree, and having many other things on my plate just now I have given this a miss. I agree that it was disingenuous of the Smith Commission to give the public an opportunity to submit while knowing full well they could not even start to take their views on board. Also, and I know this could be perceived as snobbish, I for one would prefer that the Commission spent its limited time seeking the views of a wide range constitutional and economic experts alongside those of politicians.
Well, I sent something in, an hour before the deadline. It was a quiet afternoon at work so I used a spare half an hour to write about a page and a half.
I basically just said, we were promised devo max so pony up or else and less of the back-tracking. And if nothing else at least that will stop all the accusations of “subsidy-junkies!”
Hardly worth agonising for days or weeks over a detailed submission, but worth a few minutes to add another increment to the overall numbers of submissions.