Donkeys led by donkeys
Most newspapers have a story today about the resignation of Labour parliamentary candidate Kathy Wiles after her long history of abusive and offensive comments on social media was exposed on this site on Monday and Tuesday.
The BBC, STV, Scotsman, Herald, Daily Record, Express, Times, Courier and most others all report the story to varying degrees of accuracy, and most of the pieces are all but identical, featuring the same quotes. (Only the Telegraph declines to mention it, perhaps out of embarrassment over this unfortunately-timed, one-sided Alan Cochrane rant about “cybernats” on the same day Ms Wiles caught everyone’s attention.)
As the local paper of the would-be MP for Angus the Courier’s coverage is the best, with not only the standard resignation story but also a slightly deeper delve into her lengthy record of nasty postings and an editorial leader column, which is the only place we’ve seen raise the more important question arising from the incident.
Because as we noted ourselves yesterday and as the Courier points out, it wasn’t the least bit difficult to find out what sort of a person Kathy Wiles was. Five minutes looking at her Twitter and Facebook accounts, now deleted, threw up dozens of glaring examples of abusive conduct, aimed largely at the SNP and its voters but also more widely, such as the page (now private) she created calling for Top Gear presenter Jeremy Clarkson to be shot, and left to fester in his own excrement in old age.
And it’s not as if the Angus Constituency Labour Party which selected Ms Wiles as its candidate isn’t online-savvy. Its chair, John Ruddy, is a man whose name will be very familiar to anyone following the independence debate online, being a regular feature of most newspaper politics sections with pro-Labour, anti-SNP comments (of which he’s posted almost 3000 on the Guardian alone) and as one of the most prolific contributors to the late and little-lamented “LabourHame”.
Mr Ruddy has gone to ground since the story broke. His Twitter account has also been made private and he appears to have taken a vow of silence in the newspaper comment sections. But as far as we know he remains chair of Angus CLP, and he, more than Kathy Wiles, is the person with serious questions to answer.
Ms Wiles is an imbecile, but there’s no law against that. Her views were only of any consequence and newsworthiness because Labour selected her to be a prospective Member of Parliament, and the responsibility for that rests on John Ruddy’s shoulders.
As we and the Courier both observe, it can’t possibly be that Angus CLP was unaware of her character. Even the most superficial and cursory vetting would have revealed it in all its gory detail. So we can only assume that the party simply didn’t care. All that appears to have mattered is that Ms Wiles really, really hated the SNP and anyone who voted for it, or might have voted for it, or for independence, or was foreign.
(We are, of course, absolutely NOT suggesting that there’s any connection between the Nazi graffiti painted on the Angus South SNP MSP’s office and the fact that Kathy Wiles was canvassing in Arbroath last weekend. We link the story merely to highlight the depth of hatred that exists among some No campaigners for the Yes movement, and which Ms Wiles – who suggested among other things that SNP supporters were “racist” and “anti-democratic” – appears to have shared to some degree.)
Readers would be forgiven for wondering how many other such candidates lurk in the Labour lists, waiting to be cast into the spotlight by a single witless tweet that invites scrutiny onto their murky histories. Indeed, it might be reasonable to wonder if Labour itself knows, or ever tried to find out.
Because at the moment, its entire selection process seems to consist of “Loathe the Nats blindly and with every fibre of your being? You’re in!” And that has implications which risk disfiguring the entire future of Scottish politics.
I would think that in order to be a candidate for Scottish Labour an extreme hatred of the SNP would be a prerequisite?
Think of the minute of hate in 1984.
It is a groupthink thing.
Wiles was also a featured BT spokesperson and worked for the Scottish Office:
link to stand.tab.co.uk
Oh how I wish I’d taken a screenshot of a LabourHame blog where John Ruddy was ranting about Angus not giving the Labour candidate the votes because the candidate was English. When I objected to this and pointed out that Nigel Don SNP MSP was elected by Angus votes and clearly had an Englich accent, I was promptly silenced by the delete button and my other attempts never made it past pre-moderation.
Things not going well for BT in Angus:
link to thecourier.co.uk
It’s an example of the groupthink and tribalism within labour personified by their leadership and supporters in the MSM that encourages this type of behaviour. They can’t dare let their policies speak for themselves so they have to distract voters from that by smearing the ‘other’ side. A sad relic of a once great party.
I always think a single scalp on your teepee looks, well, a bit lonely.
Is it the whole Entity that is the Human Race? Are there that many idiots? Ah man, I am close to despair.
My Parents brought me up to respect my fellow man, do good to others as you would have them do to you. I was brought up to judge people on their actions (Honesty and Integrity) and not on their religion sexuality etc.
How did Humanity become so ‘off track’?
There seems to be so many MORONS! I have always believed in the 80/20 rule, but it seems as if there is a maths problem here, politics seems to attract more than its fair share of ‘brainless wonders’.
Please someone reassure me that this isn’t true.
The problem runs far deeper than this Ruddy character.
Alistair Darling – “blood & soil nationalists”.
Johann Lamont – “nationalism is a virus”.
Ian Davidson – “all that will be left is to bayonet the wounded”.
Little wonder their minions behave the way they do when the leadership use such language.
I look forward to the media hounding these people out of office.
To be fair Stu, Gerry Braiden did comment on her rather lurid facebook antics in his piece for the Herald
It has been said before but needs to be repeated over and over again: the Labour party in Scotland is a party of spite and malignant negativity. A disgrace to Scotland.
I don’t see it in the Metro and yet Jk Rowling’s abuse got front page coverage.
Little wonder their minions behave the way they do when the leadership use such language.
That’s it exactly.
politics seems to attract more than its fair share of ‘brainless wonders’.
Actually I’d disagree. That’s one thing this referendum campaign has really opened my eyes to – the incredibly dire quality of Labour, Tory & Lib Dem MPs and MSPs compared with normal, grassroots activists.
Some undecideds worry because they say we don’t have the political quality in Scotland to be independent. But they’re looking at those who are elected for mainstream parties. The SNP have some genuinely far better quality. But within the wider independence movement there are so many brilliant speakers and political thinkers. The problem is that the stifling party and political structures no longer allow them to play a part. Dennis Canavan was shoved out of Labour. And can anyone imagine Cat Boyd or Robin McAlpine being welcomed into any mainstream Westminster party?
That’s not just a Scottish issue. I’ve no doubt at all there will be equally talented people in Liverpool, Manchester, London etc who are entirely shut out by the political party system.
The problem for Labour in Scotland is that they’ve pushed decent people away to such a huge extent that they really are left with extremist dregs.
John Ruddy has form for abuse himself.
In an exchange with myself at “ukpollingreport” on the constituency of Dundee East, he was so abusive of this very “Wings” site that the owner, Anthony Wells of YouGov, felt compelled to delete the abusive quote in these terms:
“I don’t know who you are libelling, but please don’t do it here – AW]”
What sort of political party has hatred as its main core value?
What type of organisation seems to be dedicated to the persecution and abuse of a particular group in society?
What style of politics is it to place Party before electorate?
What kind of elite hold even their own supporters in contempt?
Well, I won’t state the obvious.
I think the comment earlier about “the only person to apply” may be pretty acurrate.
Since all the socialists have either declared against party leadership (LFI), or (at least temporarily) joined the SNP, who’s left that Labour Party leadership can appoint?
Sorry to go o/t so soon but this is really starting to bug me.
What’s the use of having a majority for Yes if the vote could be fixed or rigged to favour a no vote?
I’ve no idea how or even if they could do that but you can be certain that they’re thinking about it.
Some form of national monitoring of the vote on the day needs to be put in place. Urgently.
The more they object to that, the more you can be sure they’re trying to fix it.
O/T
Interesting that the US opinion on Catalonian independence should be so different from their opinion on Scottish Independence.
link to catalannewsagency.com
Cath 9.55
“Actually I’d disagree. That’s one thing this referendum campaign has really opened my eyes to – the incredibly dire quality of Labour, Tory & Lib Dem MPs and MSPs compared with normal, grassroots activists.”
Good point you make here Cath. Some of the branch meetings of political parties have only a handful of attendees. It is quite easy to be nominated to stand as a councillor and kick off a political career.
There are many talented grassroots people who don”t stand for office simply because politics is a dirty business to be in.
Oh this is going to be fun…………
She got what she deserved but you can find just as bad in London papers from so called ”journalists”, not to mention the racist comments which follow.
Time to call them all out as they are playing dangerous games.
ticktock says:
“but you can be certain that they’re thinking about it.
Some form of national monitoring of the vote on the day needs to be put in place. Urgently.”
Agree absolutely. We’ll have to organise a citizens monitor for the polling stations and ballot boxes. We need to know what can be done to have complete scrutiny over postal votes as that is the favoured way to rig any vote and labour have form here.
Considering the groups registered on the No side isn’t there at least a chance that it was someone with nazi sympathies who wrote UKOK…
which is the entire reason for the nazi slurs in the first place imo. You don’t want anyone looking at who the actual fascists are supporting in the referendum.
R-type Grunt says:
problem runs far deeper
Very true!
You can add, Curran and Alec Salmond being hit by a bus!
Courier: “… ill-advised for a normal member of the public. But for someone seeking election to public office, inexplicable. Ms Wiles was foolish in the extreme… ”
This is one of the many BIG differences between YES and NO.
While idiot ‘members of the public’ on both sides post abusive and offensive comments, to my knowledge ONLY NO politicians, candidates, officials etc also indulge. The worst which has been levelled at YES officialdom is an email about a woman posing as ordinary!
It’s crass to say, but it’s all looking too much like Good versus Evil !
I have the misfortune to know john ruddy from his time on the BRPS ( local railway society) and he is a diddy. Also employed in local ,SNP , government in Angus . Bite the hand that feeds u !!
A further part of the problem lies in Scottish Labour’s declining membership. As the party declines in Scotland it has an ever decreasing list of members to select for possible election.
The Scottish Labour political vision is being sourced from a stagnating well of ideas. The people who discuss and have to go out and “sell” these ideas to the public come from a smaller concentration of people.
Given this, it seems highly likely that the political vision will become stunted and the messengers more extreme.
The English and Welsh need to get a grip and stop voting for the same old labour.
For some time its been the practice to form dynasties within the parties and labour are the worst offenders. When I hear the likes of Blair and Straw wanting their sons to ‘take over’ I get worried but also very angry.
I seem to recall Prescott wanted his son to take up politics as well but don’t remember if he did. Kinnock is another one with his son already entrenched and my goodness the bbc is full of them. Just watch the Sarah one to see the calibre of labour dross in action, talentless and only there due to mummy.
This is a dangerous practice for democracy with more and more placemen at the heart of government and the media.
Major Bloodnok
As with all things you have to start somewhere. Try twins next time…
If we do get a No vote the Labour party will be effectively destroyed. Lies and damned Lies will be scrutinised after the referendum and then the voter will see what had been happening. The voter will exact there revenge at the next election destroying any hope of a Labour revival.
The Tory’s will be protected by this scrutinisation simply because they haven’t been the mouth peace of the no campaign. They have only been the puppet master.
She is an idiot. So is Bill Walker. Maybe there are idiots everywhere.
Nana Smith 10.15
“The English and Welsh need to get a grip and stop voting for the same old labour.”
Looks like they already have Nana. UKIP won the last UK wide election.
UKIP EU MEP,s turn backs on parliament that pays their wages
link to holyroodchronicles.blogspot.co.uk
MP Tom Harris was responsible for the “Joan’s Downfall” spoof nazi video (like much else when it comes to Scottish Labour members’ online activities, no longer available) and he makes crass, nasty indefensible statements all the time. How come he’s still in a job?
You can see where Kathy might have been thinking that if a Scottish Labour leadership candidate can get away with then so could she.
X_Sticks
Good to speak to you again albeit briefly on Sunday.
Re Monitoring of the Count on Sept 18/19th
I thought the plan was that as WOS is a registered player in the referendum that we put out monitors at the count.
I guess the rev would have to vet the volunteers but it needs to be done, don’t know how we can check authenticity of postal votes – anybody got any idea?
@X_Sticks @ticktock
BT are playing so dirty, ballot fixing is bound to be on their minds. And yes, postal votes (~25% I think) are the obvious weak link.
My understanding is that postal vote results can be different from the main vote. The reason given is that the demographic is different. Strikes me that with a simple yes/no situation, if you knew the postal results separately for each ward you could statistically spot any significant anomaly. Any demographic difference should apply country wide. Any wards with unusual differences should raise alarms.
If it turns out close and postal votes swing it to No, I’d be very suspicious.
The Case of the Nazi Graffiti:
The symbolism, what was written, they way it was written, the intended smear by association not only suggests someone who is politically aware but someone who is also politically active.
Kathy Wiles has an office in Arbroath on the High Street just along from the SNP’s office. Kathy Wiles, John Ruddy and other Labour members were canvassing the town.
Means, motive and opportunity are all staring you in the face.
My Take link to norrie.wordpress.com
Looks like it’s Mr Ruddy in the spotlight this time!
This is the chickens coming home to roost. Ever since Better Together shrieked and howled about the ‘abuse’ that Unionists were getting, it was only natural that this was going to go full circle. Go to any major papers (or the BBC’s) comments page, and you just see attack after attack on Nationalists.
So when a list is held up with names from the Better Together camp who have used abusive language then they must explain (if they can) why they said what they said.
For John Ruddy, he must now explain why he failed in the process of not spotting that Ms Wiles was not a suitable candidate. If he also has said anything derogatory about Nationalists, then this must also be explained. And if it means going all the way to the top of Scottish Labour, and finding people like Lamont, Curran and anyone else who slandered half of Scotland (‘Nationalists are a virus’) then this needs to be explained.
What do you say, Johann?
It strikes me that the attempts by labour to smear Yes, the SNP and us by association with the Nazis are something straight out of the John McTernan political strategy book.
Kathy volunteers at the Angus Independent Advocacy
link to siaa.org.uk
I’ve read their aims and values and wonder how Kathy, with her views, can fit in to an organisation like this?
I think the reason that the Better Together lot and in particular Labour have complained that this campaign has become nasty is because they are aware in some strange detached way that there is a lot of anger and vitriol flying around. What Darling and Co seem to singularly fail to realise is that most of it is coming from them.
The people making death threats are No supporters. The people posting offensive pictures of ordinary Yes supporters like the Weirs are No supporters and the politicians making Nazi accusations are No supporters. It is not before time that the newspapers have cottoned onto that fact. For too long have had accusations that it is the Yes side that have been guilty of these things with nary a shred of evidence. Yet still journalists quote, as if it is received wisdom from Mount Sinai, that Susan Calman received death threats. Yet, not a single Tweet has been produced to back this claim up.
@ Bugger the Panda 9:35
It was 2 minutes of hate BtP, here
link to youtube.com
Liquid Lenny says:
“I thought the plan was that as WOS is a registered player in the referendum that we put out monitors at the count.”
Has been discussed here and there Lenny, but nothing firm yet to my knowledge. Maybe Stu has some ideas about this and I’d be keen to know his thoughts.
Yes, good to see you and Rab on Sunday. Damn fine day in Glasgow visiting our beloved state propaganda broadcaster. Are you intending to go to the Newsroom gathering?
We’ll have to organise a citizens monitor for the polling stations and ballot boxes.
Bullying of vote riggers! You vile Nats.
Re: Vote Rigging:
Doesn’t every registered body (with the electoral commission) get the option to post watchers at every counting?
So Wings could easily have someone at every counting.
It’s unfortunate that we don’t trust the SNP and the official Yes Campaign to do that and actually stand up against any fiddling, but I guess that’s just indicadive of how they’ve been acting in everything else so far. They’ve been so quiet, trying to not give the media anything to work against them, they’ve basically left everything to the grassroots campaign.
Then again, that might be the plan, keep the “politicians” in the background, let the ordinary people on the ground show the way. Democracy in action, and what a moral high ground: “We (the politicians) didn’t have to do anything to win a Yes Vote, we just sat back and let the people make their choice!”
The Labour Party was infiltrated by self serving gangsters decades ago. The Blairs, Browns, Murphys, Davidsons and Alexanders have only one goal in life and that is to make lots of money at the expense of the taxpayer.
In Scotland, the Gansters ensured that Labour has degenerated into a cult, populated by angry, bitter people who channel their energy into hate.
These people, Kathy Wiles and John Ruddy being examples, care absolutely nothing about policies or working toward a society centric ideal.
In this strange cult the high priests wax lyrical from their gilded temple in London, Proselytising the ignorant and condeming the unbelievers.
Opponents are painted in colours of hate, bile and nastiness. They are called Nazis, compared to evil dictators and insulted. Even children are considered fair game.
To be welcomed into this cult you have to go through an initiation where you have to display extreme amounts of hate towards those who do not believe in your cult or your faith.
Blind alegiance is rewarded with an elevation to the temple in London with the rich rewards (expenses) that go with it.
Deviation away from the strict codes of belief, e.g. by talking about socialism, Independence, or saying nice things about the unbelievers will see you ejected from the cult and subjected to vile abuse from the cult scribes (newspapers and the BBC).
Red is the livery and hate is the language from the pulpit.
Try that again
“http://norrie.wordpress.com/2014/07/02/godwins-law/
With all the man/woman-power that WOS and the YES groups can muster, I don’t think securing the normal vote for 24 hrs on the 18th should be much of a problem.
What does make me very uneasy is how many hands does a postal vote go through before it reaches the “potential” voter and who has it before it’s delivered or given up to be counted.
Labour has form with this sort of thing and I wouldn’t trust them, especially as it’s life or death for them on the 18th.
It’s a simple problem with political office in this country – especially when it comes to the Labour Party. There is an old saying which I have embellished and, although it’s very much tongue-in-cheek, it appears to hold-up well when it comes to Labour:
Those who can, do,
Those who can’t, teach,
Those who can’t teach, teach others to teach,
Those who can’t teach others to teach, become Labour MP’s!
My own mother was a teacher and I’m certainly not having a go at the profession. There are lots of very good teachers about, but it has to be recognised that there are always a few who are not up to par. For some reason, the Labour Party is a magnet for these people.
HOWEVER, I’ve said this before and I’ll repeat if till I’m blue in the face…. The problem with politics is not the people standing – it’s the numpties who vote for them regardless of their suitability for the job.
I’m glad the topic of vote rigging by the Brit establishment is gaining traction. Make no mistake, they WILL attempt it if they think they are losing (and as others have said there’s a feeling abroad that that tipping point has been reached in their minds).
Remember that they already have printed 120% of the referendum ballot papers – no clear explanation was forthcoming from Mary Pitcaithly as to why this was. And remember Glenrothes, when even the odious Jim Murphy was taken aback in the BBC studios when the predicted SNP victory suddenly morphed into a comfortable Labour hold. So what precisely happened behind the scenes when even Labour politicos were unaware of it?
I’m not sure if this is OT.
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
This cool article will be, as the very best ones always are, shared widely via my own personal social media activity and I suggest others do otherwise.
I would suggest that mild moderation of the accusations by Gillie be removed and i am proud to that while I know Poirot from having read A Christie as a pre pubescent, I have no idea who PC Murdoch is.
O/T – anyone following the Max Keiser comment on twitter that he was banned by Ofcom from airing Scottish Independence views and, in particular, not being allowed to have our own beloved Frankie Boyle on his show will have, no doubt, been sorely disappointed in the state’s interference with free speech (because they never do that, do they?).
I fired off an FOI request to Ofcom, basically asking it they had, since 1st Jan 2011 (didn’t want to make their job too dificult) ever directed/ordered/recommended that any person or organisation be barred from participating in any broadcast media programming. The answer was quicker than I expected and is:
“Dear Mr Thomson
Thank you for your e-mail.
Ofcom has not directed any of its licensed broadcast services to stop, or not have, broadcast interviews or broadcast discussions with any individual or organisation since 1st January 2011.
For your information, Ofcom is a post transmission regulator, and, beyond broadcasters being required to give due consideration to the rules of the Broadcasting Code (link to stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk) when setting up interviews, for example, we would not explicitly direct a broadcaster against programming including an individual or organisation in advance. Nor would there be a general prohibition by Ofcom against broadcasters including an individual or organisation in programming, provided that any inclusion is sufficiently contextualised to ensure compliance with the Code.
Yours sincerely “
So, if Max Keiser is a reader of this august journal, please, Max, take heart and feel free to broadcast away
Bawbaggery correction.
F*cking “likewise’ was intended not “otherwise”!
There is absolutely no doubt the whole, financed by Tory/led by Labour, Better Together campaign NAZI smears are being pushed by those at the very top of the anti-independence movement.
From the whole unelected, cross-party, House of Lords to the whole boorach of numpties in the Westminster Commons there has issued a constant stream of such vile insulting and lying tirades as would make normal members of the public demand an end to the Lords and a root and branch clear-out and end to the present system of government of the Commons and a return to real democracy.
That is, of course, if the general public were properly informed of the excess’s and abuse’s within both those houses. However, the media of the United Kingdom is even more corrupt and biased that the UK system of government.
There really is only one solution for Scotland
INDEPENDENCE
“Birds of a feather flock together”.
They are nothing more than a flock of shitehawks!
Jim Marshall, this is absolutley correct.
“There are many talented grassroots people who don”t stand for office simply because politics is a dirty business to be in.”
I would be involved in politics, I would love to be involved in politics, but to reach any high level in it invites dirt digging scrutiny from anyone who doesn’t like you, and I have a few slightly grubby closets in my past; nothing terminally naughty but a few juvenile brushes with legality and one other issue which still dogs me but very few people get to know about, the point not being to hide it, the point being it’s my problem to deal with and no one else need know because it doesn’t affect them in any way. Those who research details about people would have no difficulty finding all of those things, and my political career would be dumped in the cesspit very publicly.
Having my smalls aired in public keeps me firmly out of politics on all but a commenting and light activism level.
Off topic, sorry, but yay!
I thought I was on dodgy ground for Friday because a colleague had arranged her leaving party for 7.30 that evening so the best I could hope to manage would be to call in to the Newsroom very late after the leaving party was over.
So, I was approached yesterday by the person organising the party, saying “Linsey is wanting to move her leaving party to lunch time instead of the evening and I was wondering if you would be OK with that?”
Oh yes, I’m absolutely OK with that.
Peter Macbeastie
I would prefer my politicians to have had some life experience, to have lived a little. How else can one form an opinion that relates to reality?
link to academia.edu
@Colin says: 2 July, 2014 at 10:35 am
“Kathy volunteers at the Angus Independent Advocacy”.
Well one explanation might be this that when I clicked the link Colin gave my security system reported it as a suspected dangerous website.
Slightly O/T
The most significant thing I think about today’s press apart from the Wiles affair is the tiny coverage of the Times’ YouGov poll. It is bottom of the page stuff.
The papers know the poll is bollocks.
The Rt Hon. the Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale
The Scotsman—Tuesday
“bad people” in the referendum campaign with “too much abuse” on the internet by both sides.
Twitter—Wed
Interesting NEGATIVE reaction to yesterday’s speech. From YES activists. But not from the public. Good feedback. That’ll do me.
I blame BT for all of this, they are childish and so stupid that they could not see where this would lead. Wizard’s first rule is that people are stupid, and they are collectively stupid that is why there is a need for good and decent leadership. When none is available the head cases come out to play.
I have come to the conclusion that those who dwell at Westminster are living not only in a bubble but a hermetically sealed one at that. They, and I blame the late Donald Dewar for this, took the worst of the worst for Holyrood in an attempt to belittle the Scottish Parliament which they really grudged it’s existence. The SNP were the blade at their throat through out the Devolution campaigns and they disliked that, but they disliked the idea that they would lose power. So we have the likes of Johann Lamont and all the rest of the small minded clique. It will only get worse unless we can rid ourselves of them.
@Robert Peffers
The link works for me, I’m using bitfinder anti virus and it’s not flagging it.
The link is to a charity, nothing dodgy about it other than Kathy works there.
And I certainly wouldn’t give you a link to a dodgy site.
Try it again or google it and try from there.
Proof if it was ever wanted that political journalists do read Wings. Where else was all this material set out in such an accessible and referenced format? I haven’t read all the links but did any of them so much as hat-tip you for the journalistic donkey work of ferreting this stuff out for them?
I think all the people calling for monitoring of polling stations and ballot boxes need to remember that this happens every time. Every party (and individual candidate) is evntitled to nominate polling agents and counting agents to observe the polling stations and the count. Anyone who has ever voted will have seen people with various party affiliations lurking around the polling stations – that’s what they’re doing. The count is absolutely crawling with people with beady eyes and clipboards. I’ve done it myself. If you’re nominated as an agent you get sent a wee official letter authorising you to go into any polling station and ask certain questions, and to attend the count.
The SNP in particular is well used for decades to following ballot boxes on the roads from the polling stations to the count. I remember absolute bloody paranoia was the name of the game at the time of the 2008 Glasgow East by-election.
Wings as a registered participant will also have the right to nominate polling and counting agents. The more sets of eyes the better. But don’t run away with the idea that you only just thought of this, or that it isn’t already well organised and provided for in the legislation.
Article in RT, Sorry for the O/T
Scotland unlikely to vote for independence in September – poll
Scotland looks unlikely to vote for independence in September, Reuters reported, citing researchers. A study by the University of Stirling estimates a 79 percent chance that the people of Scotland will reject the chance to end a 307-year-old union with England, up from 70 percent in April. Some polls had shown earlier this year the pro-independence Yes campaign closing the gap on the pro-union campaign’s lead. A YouGov poll for the Times newspaper on Tuesday found that backing for the anti-independence campaign had risen.
Muscleguy: ah well the reward is in the facts getting out there!
So Kathy Wiles has resigned as a candidate. Jumped before she was pushed.
Does she remain a Labour Party member though?
“Both sides are as bad as each other” is the way our noble and honest media usually sell it with their usual sneaky lying malice ie. wise and sage Cochrane of the Torygraph wrote on Monday
“Every journalist I know, including all of the BBC ones, knows that the majority of such abuse comes from the cybernat side of the argument.”
and
“I can think of several examples where the impartiality of serious BBC journalists, in both Glasgow and London, has been not just questioned but damned by leading Nats when the hacks stray from what the SNP would regard as the true Wee Eck path.
At the Better Together HQ in Glasgow, there are many who reckon that some at least of BBC Scotland’s output is edited from the First Ministerial bunker at Bute House”
“The true Wee Eck path” teamGB Pulitzer in the post Mr Cochrane.
If Labour are nasty now, what on earth will they be like the day before Referendum day?…
O/T
Norrie I just click on your name and that takes me to your page!
As far as hateful Unionists and Better Together No Thanks are concerned, hatred towards the SNP is good publicity. What they don’t realise is how much damage they are causing to themselves and the parties they represent.
Scottish Labour are dying in Scotland and the more desperate they become, the more they lash out the further they descend into the quagmire of no return. This is a result of allowing the worst of the party to float to the top and is a reflection of the lack of leadership within the Labour Party itself. Kathy Wiles was never MSP material because she’s a fanatic, Johann Lamont was never MSP material because she’s a fanatic, Ed Miliband looks like he’s ready to sell you a dfs sofa.
RE. Postal Vote Rigging. Westminster just sold off the Royal Mail cheaply to there friends and spivs. Who am I to suggest that letters might go astray. I do not have a postal vote but if I did. I personally would pay the extra and send it by recorded delivery. Saying That I do not trust the Electoral Commission. ( CBI Fiasco ) Vote Yes
@ Morag, but who monitors postal voting? I have a postal vote but I think I’ll change back to the ballot box type as there is way too much bullshit going on out of site. Like, what the hell is going on here?
link to newsnetscotland.com
We cannot trust the E/Commission on anything. Quote CBI mess, where they bent the rules to suit Westminster, or so it appears. Same result.
link to rosaalba.wordpress.com
‘A YouGov poll for the Times newspaper on Tuesday found that backing for the anti-independence campaign had risen.’
And in that bland statement is concealed a multitude of potential fabrications. Who has ever met anyone who, once Yes, has suddenly switched back to No? That’s the scenario we’re being asked to swallow via this Yougov poll, replicated thousands of times over.
The absence of a single poll until 18 September showing Yes ahead makes it far easier to justify a rigged ballot. Look, we told you it was 79% likely that Scotland would vote No…
Does anybody have a link to the story about 140% of the required ballot papers having been printed ?
There is an article in the P&J today saying that support for the Yes campaign has fallen to 35%.
And here was me thinking thomsons were getting on the side of Yes.
‘Wings’ has put it’s lever in at exactly the right point on this one as shown by the amount of coverage that the unionist media has had to give it.
This incident, canvass reports from various parts of the country, the tired and resigned air of BT leaders, for example Carmichael in Helensburgh last week, the repeated jolts being suffered by Cameron et al and the increasingly high morale of all the ‘Yessers’ that I meet are convincing me that we can find the energy for a huge and sustained push over the last eleven weeks of the campaign.
If you look at the way it’s been handled, our side still has significant reserves that have not been fully deployed yet while BT is cracking, tripping over itself and fading in many areas.
I heard from a friend, who is not very sympathetic to ‘YES’, that at a large business meeting that he recently attended, in Aberdeen, the general drift was to get ready for a ‘YES’ win.
We all need to push, push, push up to the last day (and guard the votes on the night). Don’t let the other side regain its balance (such as it ever had).
We really can do this !
@kendomacaroonbar
Here is one for 120%
link to bbc.co.uk
grendel 11:42:-“So Kathy Wiles has resigned as a candidate. Jumped before she was pushed.
Does she remain a Labour Party member though?”
Absolutely no reason why she should cancel her membership—it’s her natural political home.
She has merely withdrawn as candidate for the Angus Westminster seat.
At the end of the day the no campaign has to De legitimise the Yes campaign.This is to avoid addressing the substance of the argument. The goal to make it impossible for opponents to be heard respectfully in the debate.
The ongoing triad of abuse is ultimately to achieve this aim.
Ref vote rigging.
Even at the birth of Democracy ,5th cen bc Athens,there is archaelogical evidence that the vote to ostricise Themistokles was rigged by the use of multiple votes by the same person.
More up to date was the Bush V Gore Florida vote ,the counting was a complete carve up everyone new it but he still got to be President.
A friend of mine who works as a senior nurse in a nursing home tells me that a bundle of postal votes, one for each resident, arrives in a large envelope and the old folk are ‘helped’ by the care assistants to fill them in. There are around 80,000 old folk in care in Scotland – that’s a sizeable and potentially rich seam for those intent on postal vote fraud.
Does the Electoral Commission even care about PV fraud or does it simply do the eyes closed, fingers in ears trick?
I have virtually no confidence in the Electoral Commission for this or any election- it is a UK government quango with place-men already sitting there set on protecting the ‘establishment’.
As for democracy – that’s a mere fanciful notion of what we should expect, not what’s really coming up. Labour have buckets of form on this.
New posts
todayinscotland | The Referendum Blues
link to todayinscotland.wordpress.com
You only have to listen to Labour, during FMQ,s to realise their agenda which is one of all out attack on the SNP.
Slightly off topic. We have had everyones view on Scottish independence. So finally the most important one has been revealed and Shrek says no. Yes now Mike Myers has been asked about independence. A country he knows absolutely nothing about other than a fake accent…couldn’t make it up.
Well, I’ll say one thing for her. The BBC quote her apology as “I tweeted a picture on Sunday which has caused offence for which I apologise unequivocally….”, and it’s not a conditional “sorry-if” fauxpology.
We could do with more apologies like this!
Mike Myers has Scottish blood in him I think, but I agree with you Big Jock.
I see John Ruddy has cancelled all planned Labour party canvassing of Angus towns for this week.
link to facebook.com
What is this telling us?
Aye Helena but so does Alan Cochrane! LOL
O/T
Does anyone know the outcome of a Panelbase poll conducted for Yes Scotland on 24/06/2014?
Never said his Scots blood made him anything, Jock, man is prat as far as I can tell. We can look all over Scotland for those with the same gene’s I am not allowed to use the “T” word, so let us say why should we concern ourselves with those who have no interest with us either.
The problem for Labour is they had so much freedom to spin the myth over the years, they are the party of socialism. Labour defined what socialism is in Britain. Once upon a time , over a century they did, not now.
The problem for them now is there are more ‘ socialists’ outside the party than in it. Listen to everyday conversations, ‘ordinary ‘ people often describe socialist ideals, they just don’t call it by that name because there is a bit of green, a bit of fairness, a bit of humanity mixed up in it all, not defined by any party.
Labour voters please stand up and reclaim your Party, ask yourself, are you supporting the ethos of Labour or just the people running it in your name?
@Jim Duthie
they’re available here:
link to panelbase.com
I’m as disappointed as anyone else when polls are reported to show a decline in support for Yes, but I think we have to be careful.
The idea that a paper reporting such a poll is failing to show support for independence implies that they should censor any unpleasant findings, which I don’t think would be good, and could even lead to complacency. It is true, however, that many journalists do not understand polling, and get over-excited about a single poll (when it is trends that matter) and confused by margin of error. The report is more likely to be biased than the poll itself.
If the YouGov poll is the one I think it is, the change from the previous one is within margin of error (both sides changed by a mere 1%) and therefore reveals nothing more than that there is not a surge in Yes support – amongst those polled.
All pollsters have to assess whether their samples are representative (and big enough to be meaningful); there are different problems with phone polls, face-to-face interviews, and on-line panels. Sine the 1992 general election which a lot of pollsters got spectacularly wrong, they have refined their methods.
Pollsters are commercial businesses; if they get it wrong too often they will lose custom. So it is in their own interests to do their best, and to adhere to industry standards. I don’t think they deliberately rig them; I do think they have issues with hard-to-engage demographics, and with weighting. Since the rise of UKIP, there has been a lot of hot air about pollsters over- or under-estimating their support, not prompting for them in voting intention questions, etc, and this has not yet been properly resolved.
The difference in methodology does lead to certain pollsters tending to be more Labour-friendly, or to give very low LibDem scores, for instance, so of course there will be a temptation for those commissioning polls to use the company which flatters them and to avoid those that don’t. My response to that is to take all polls with a pinch of salt – they are not predictions, but snapshots of opinion on the day(s) the questions were asked.
Remember that there’s never been a snowball’s chance that you’d ever see a yougov or ipsos etc poll showing a clear lead for Yes.
There’s still plenty of no’s around but on the ground I’m seeing and hearing more and more pro Yes sentiments being expressed.
BT and their owners must know it and they’re running scared. To imagine or hope that they wouldn’t sink to vote rigging is delusional. If they’re happy to rig polls, what would prevent them from trying to rig the vote? The vote, postal and otherwise, MUST be monitored closely.
If anyone here knows anyone who is pro indy and who has knowledge and experience of how these things work please ask them about the best ways to prevent vote rigging, especially postal voting.
@Colin says: 2 July, 2014 at 11:36 am.@Robert Peffers
“The link works for me, I’m using bitfinder anti virus and it’s not flagging it.
The link is to a charity, nothing dodgy about it other than Kathy works there.
And I certainly wouldn’t give you a link to a dodgy site.”
I didn’t say you had sent a bad link, Colin.
Having been under severe attack for some time now I’m quite well locked down. Here is the message that comes up on the particular browser on this particular computer when I cut and pasted the link you posted directly from your post.
“To help protect your security Internet Explorer has blocked this website from displaying content with Security Certificate Errors. Click here for options.”
They may be as pure as the driven snow but I have no doubt they have indeed been remiss with their security certification. Beggaring the question, “What else are they careless with, including accepting Ms Wiles’ membership”?
@Jim Thomson 10.55 am
re; O/T
Your post is very informative re Ofcom but I wonder if Max Keiser is in fact being constrained by RT? RT’s coverage of the Scottish referendum has been a bit iffy and they seem too friendly to UKIP.
I think that they have their own agenda and their London based reporters appear to have the same doubtful attitudes to the viability of an independent Scotland as our own MSM. They often use the same data and prognostications used by other metro-centric reporters. Sometimes they sound just like the BBC.
Jim Thomson.
Thanks. However, when I click on the relevant result button nothing comes up. Does this mean the commissioner of the poll doesn’t want the results made public?
It’s the arch-donkeys at the top that get me. When you have imbeciles at the bottom of the unionist pyramid and those at the top are behaving like imbeciles because a compliant press is allowing it then the likes of Kathy Wiles will feel that this sort of behaviour is sanctioned and acceptable.
Alistair Darling compares us to nazis and that means the less gifted members of the rank and file will think that that is the game plan. The problem with playing dirty for Darling & co. is that you can’t very well issue a memo telling morons how to do it “properly” and you can’t explain to them, directly, that the immunity of the heid-yins and the tame approach of sympathetic journalists does not extend to preserving the careers of the likes of Wiles.
This is what happens when you play follow the leader when he is reckless in his actions but immune to their consequences.
Morag,
Good news that you’re going to make it on Friday. Obvious next move is to suggest to your colleagues that they might want to carry on the festivities, maybe at the Newsroom, convenient for public transport etc. ?
link to scottishpokemon.wordpress.com
Good satire.
I wonder if he’s not prophetic?
@Jim Duthie – clicking on the button downloads an Excel file to your PC. Have a look in your downloads folder
Jim Thomson
Silly me! There it is. Thanks for your help. Big difference between that and You Gov one. Any idea why (or is the answer obvious)?
i complained to the public standards commissioner about Terry Kelly’s displays of vitriol and hatred against the SNP and yes voters, they responded that as it is a private blog they can take no action.Even though he was making very similar nazi references, if you want to feel the hate there is a link on this site.
Shouldn’t elected officials be above this, or at least forced to be above it.
@Michael McCabe says: 2 July, 2014 at 11:49 am
“RE. Postal Vote Rigging. Westminster just sold off the Royal Mail cheaply to there friends and spivs. Who am I to suggest that letters might go astray. I do not have a postal vote but if I did. I personally would pay the extra and send it by recorded delivery. Saying That I do not trust the Electoral Commission. ( CBI Fiasco ) Vote Yes”.
Ah! Yes! Michael. However, when you get a postal vote it comes with a set of instructions that includes a web address to contact to show your vote has been registered.
While this doesn’t preclude the more devious cheating it does offer the voter the chance to assure their vote has arrived where it should. In the case of Glenrothes it was entire ballot boxes that vanished and have, to date, never reappeared.
My own opinion was that the ballot should have been declared void and then re-run as it quite obviously had been rigged and at least been interfered with. You must remember that Fife, and Glenrothes in particular, have a long history of, (Ahem!), Labour Party, “Innocent mistakes”, by their hecht heid ains. A La office rentals et al.
@ Grendel
My thoughts too, particularly when I read this quote in the Scotsman from a Labour Party spokesman:
“The debate about Scotland’s future should be held in a respectful and positive way and we will take robust and immediate action if any of our members fall below these standards.”
Domkey says YES.
link to scottcreighton.co.uk
O/T.
There are 11 nuclear submarines, sitting in Devonport, awaiting somewhere to dump their nuclear reactors . If we vote no they,ll probably be dumped in Scotland.
link to bbc.co.uk
Just to say, well done REV Stu, for exposing the pernicious nature of the British Labour party in Scotland, and their current fondness for shouting ‘NAZI’ at anything and anyone in favour of independence. Hardly surprising that this has happened, given the reference to ‘blood and soil nationalism’ made with impunity by Alistair Darling, and for which he has NOT APOLOGISED.
Excellent last few days. Rock solid proper journalism, of the kind you will not find in the Herald, Scotsman, Record, BBC or ITV, where propaganda is the order of the day, every day.
Like a dog with a bone. Superb.
O/T.
Why was the Joseph Roundtree Foundation one of the funders of the Trident Commission.
link to basicint.org
Re Max Keiser. He said that the Electoral Commission “insisted” no mention of referendum was to be made until after the vote, not Ofcom
Donkeys led by donkeys, an no wan of you,s Wingers posted up the Donkey Serenade, ur you,s awe sleepin lol.
There’s a fundamental issue here, what with the selection process in Falkirk and now Angus, is Labour’s Scottish branch (particularly its ‘leadership’) competent to run its own affairs. Shouldn’t the Ed Miller Band be stepping in?
I think we should say a particular well done to Lorna, who managed to screenshot that tweet with the Hitler Youth picture after it had been deleted. Without the screenshot it’s possible Katy would have wriggled out of it.
@CameronB Brodie
Wow, don’t ya just love Jakie Baillies quote..
“The SNP failed to act quickly enough to mitigate the impact of the Tories’ bedroom tax in Scotland.”
I Actually chocked on my tea.. ffs, does this woman have no shame.. (that’s rhetorical, obviously)
Donkeys led by asses?
MajorBloodnok says:
2 July, 2014 at 9:44 am
I hope you are happy – I just spent 5 minutes cleaning a keyboard AND screen!
O/T.
The Ploughshares Fund also contributed to the Trident Commission its an organisation opposed to nuclear weapons.Surely they and the Rowantree Foundation must have known that the Trident Commission would never willingly decommission Trident, or are they naive to think so.
http://www.ploughshares.org
Good journalism by the Courier. They put the others to shame.
I wonder how many facebook accounts have gone private in the last few days?
Labour gives its prospective candidates an intelligence test. If they fail they are selected.
Seems to have fallen off the wall and is now cancelled….
I’ve always regarded John Ruddy as a sort of primitive Hothersall prototype – comes out with the same kind of nonsense, but nowhere near as good at circular arguments and doesn’t have the same obsessive desire to win every argument to avoid ever being seen being wrong on teh interwebz.
He would be an amusing second scalp for Wings…
Surely , Donkeys led by asses
On vote fiddles and Glenrothes:
The electorates of Glenrothes were (votes/%)
2005 66606
2008 69146
2010 67841
1200 would be a reasonable increase in the “electorate” between 2005 and 2010, say 720 between 2005 and 2008, so where did the extra 1820 come from?
Its no good following the ballot boxes you’re too late. You need to look for the people coming onto the register since January, when they got wind that they might be in trouble, who have registered for a postal vote and who are never there when you canvass. Report your suspicions to the Electoral Registration Officer of the Council and the Police.
Because at the moment, its entire selection process seems to consist of “Loathe the Nats blindly and with every fibre of your being? You’re in!” And that has implications which risk disfiguring the entire future of Scottish politics.
I think that Kathy Wiles was in agreement with the rest of the Labour party in her views on the SNP and other independence supporters.
Internally in the Labour party the belief that supporters of independence are racist and facist and that the leadership is fair game for Dictator Bingo is probably fairly widespread. Kathy’s comments and tweets would not have caused any problems if used internally inside the Labour party.
I suspect that is also the reason that none of her comments were highlighted in the vetting process as they simply reflected what the rest of the Labour party thinks. She was in effect simply following the party line.
Her problem was that she took the internal Labour received wisdom of independence supporters as far right, fringe bigots and let it loose into the real world and it was spotted. There’s probably a lot of Labour members who still can’t work out why she had to resign because as far as they’re concerned all she did was tell the Labour truth.
@Frann Leach 1:07
I feel another FOI request coming on …
and here’s the link if anyone else would like to query them:
link to electoralcommission.org.uk
turnbull drier
I watched her at that Glasgow debate, last month, and I was struck by her negativity. I was also less than convinced of her honesty.
As far as I’m concerned, the Poll Tax was the key to undermining local council provision of services and the gradual privatisation of our local democracy. What was British Labour’s response? (also rhetorical
)
Andy B
Re the nuclear sub storage plans there is one in Dumfries.
link to gov.uk
FOI request to Electoral Commission submitted
@Squirrel Towers.
Thanks for that link, I see Chapelcross amongst the candidates, and its the furthest away from London, I honestly believe if Scots vote no, we’ll have to store the 11 nuclear reactors at Devonport, at Chapelcross, just as we’ll have to keep housing WMD’s.
Remember – Polls are often used to [i][b]shape[/b][/i] opnion, not to record it.
This is why they’re desperate to portray Yes as a lost cause, low support, etc. People don’t back lost causes. It’s opinion shaping and trying to push people to vote with the “crowd”.
And I’ve buggered up the tags as I couldn’t remember the format and we can’t edit or delete, but it’s still readable, I guess.
It’s been interesting how the MSM have been spinning the yougov poll as a slump for the Yes side.
35% is -1% yes minus ONE per cent is being reposted as a slump.
To make matters worse, there is a 3% margin of error so the 1% might actually be a rise of 2% for Yes.
I’m sure the MSM would have reported a 2% rise as a huge surge for YES?
The No vote change in this poll was +1% !!! again basicly no change.
Yougov report that they had 15% English people in the last poll and they are very secretive about the methodology they employ in which they split SNP voters into two groups, one who were SNP before the SNP victory and the other group are people who were Labour before the SNP victory.
The person who owns Yougov is a Tory who said at the start of the campaign that the Yes side had No Chance of winning the referendum.
Ignore them!
kendomacaroonbar says:
Does anybody have a link to the story about 140% of the required ballot papers having been printed ?
There are quite a few reports on the 120% number kendo.
link to tinyurl.com
link to tinyurl.com
Here is the pdf from the “ELECTORAL MANAGEMENT BOARD FOR SCOTLAND.” You’ll see in item 6 “Ballot paper printing” on page 3 there is a reference to printing 120% of the ballot papers.
link to tinyurl.com
Squirrel Towers says:
Andy B
Re the nuclear sub storage plans there is one in Dumfries.
link to gov.uk
Aye that’ll be right Andy. They’ll be using Chapelcross o’er my dead body, and not before I’ve shot a gie few many o them afore hand either! That place is less than 5 minutes away from my flat and I’ll be damned, yes floks I know I already am damned but THEY don’t know that…YET
, if they think they can just waltz into Chapelcross and use it as nuke waste storage facility!
Cath – in reply to your point. The trouble with the ‘established’ parties is exactly that. They’re established. They have ‘safe’ seats where you could tie a rosette on a donkey and it would get elected. The SNP have never (and are not yet at the stage) where they have an absolutely safe seat, so their pool of candidates have to actually work to get there; not just spend a number of years in local positions and then automatically get a chance at a parliamentary seat, irrespective of their suitability.
well, that was quick.
FOI request to Electoral Commission on the Max Keiser/Frankie Boyle issue (without specifically mentioning either), with exactly the same question sent to Ofcom has the following extremely helpful response:
“The Commission does not hold information relevant to your request.”
The plot thickens.
Her vile comments warranted a few paragraphs squeezed on page two of the S.n whilst J.K.Rowling got front page billing. But, the media are not really biased are they.
In reply to Bugger (the Panda): Was it only 1 minutes hate, my memory says it was 2 minutes, but either way the BT: NO; or whatever they’re calling themselves now, has exceeded that target admirably as far as, bile directed at the the YES campaigners is concerned.
Please be careful, lookout for troll traps. UK Establishment will be setting traps daily. Don’t feed them live amm0.
MSM will over-hype and BBC will repeat hype daily hourly, with the usual faux outrage.
I’m ex navy and nothing bothers me much, seen it all, done it all, NEARLY. Irreverence is healthy. “Sticks and stones may break my bones But names will never hurt me”.
I like free speech, we must have free speech.
Otherwise we’re not a democracy, which we’re not really.
Why did my parent bother fighting WW2.
They didn’t have to! They could just put their guns down and went home, couldn’t they!
My old soldier pal say Establishment are happy with control of terrestial TV and MSM, because viewers are majority of voters.
YES needs everyone to vote YES.
ps. Pounding Aberdeen main streets(when sun out) and targeting high density car, pedestrian areas in my bespoke double-sided Wings web address TShirt.
Shopping afternoon in local Adsa superstore again in my double-sided Wings TShirt, 100’s of shoppers, their youths and childs clocked Wings web address.
Pounding Aberdeen’s main rat-runs RiversideDrive / HolburnStreet / GreatSouthernRoad in my Wings web address TShirt for 2hours. 1000’s of cars passing in rush-hour.
Not wearing my YES regalia, no toots!
Maybe cars think message is religious, “Wings”, or maybe it sounds like “RedBull gives you Wings”. Its all good the Wings address is getting seen.
Then its up to Wings posts, to make them YES.
I’m going to target all 4 South Aberdeen bridges across River Dee. Traffic bottlenecks, all rush-hour traffic has to across and pass me, 1000’s of cars in 2hours.
If North Aberdeen could do the same for River Don bridges, Wings/YES would capture 1000’s passing rush-hour cars commuting north.
pps. I look a right div. No problemo. Ha Ha!
Horseboy! Send me a T-shirt if you have a spare, I’m right between the two main Don crossings and will easily do some walking. Up n down the parkway, at my age (mid-50s) I don’t give a F**K what anyone thinks. Tomfl787@gmail.com. I don’t have a website as I’m a bit computer-illiterate, but activism is _not_ a problem! Good luck – cheers, take care.
Horseboy p.s. I’m also ex-RN, HMS Glamorgan, Falklands…
Why not boycott individual newspapers that you read, say for a day or two, as a protest against their bias.
Pick them one at a time and see how they like the lost sales revenue, hit them where it hurts, their pockets.
@Tom Foyle
I’ve ONE bespoke front&back Wings web address TShirt spare.
What size you?
Parkway at rushhour will be 1000’s cars. Magic.
I’m without car these days thanks to UK Labour bank crash.
Could easily meet City Centre(or halfway), to handover. I’m Ferryhill.
ps. I’m history nut.
I’d like to hear truth about Falklands.
pps. I’m up for this, get back intouch asap.