Wings Over Scotland

REV will have plenty material after tues debate,scottish devo 1230 pm to 7pm

looking forward to interventions when gordon brown,george Galloway speak

One_Scot
same here, she spoke for me as well, she got it all.
logically we should have walked it.
reconciliation with that and the actual loss is difficult to come to terms with.
my head and heart are as resolute as ever.
the pressure on “them” must continue, we live in very interesting times.
the UK BT fought to save imo is no more, destroyed in their last minute panic to save it.
we stand firm and the r.uk is left in isolated chaos, because the people of scotland refuse to be a political part of it, you’ll see.

An American Wolf in George Square

link to tinyurl.com

Enjoy 🙂

Gordon Brown accuses David Cameron of being ‘unstatesmanlike’.

Gordon Brown told anyone who would listen that transplant operations would be under threat if Scotland voted ‘Yes’. Rev Stu secured point-blank rebuttal of that lie on the same day it was issued. Brown has yet to acknowledge his ‘error’, let alone apologise for any distress it caused.

We’re in the fucking Twilight Zone…

Tommy seems to be like marmite, now we get down to it, post referendum. When I was out on the newsthreads pre ref. correcting the nawbags, the detractors of the FM – TS came up a few times, and as I felt it my duty to correct everybody (you get like that, day after day)I always said, he’s not perfect, BUT, in this debate I would far rather him on my side, for the numbers he can motivate and bring with him, than have him outside the tent etc. That usually shut folk up. It goes back to the that “bus” analogy – you need a lot of different folks on the bus, doing away, to get to your destination, some will jump off or on, but when you get to the destination, there will be folk heading in other directions to get on other buses.

Alex Clark says:

12 October, 2014 at 6:56 pm

at alex
A Small plea, I’m not here to lecture as I have been as guilty as anyone since the referendum result.

Getting into petty spats and in reality lowering the tone of the type of conversations and discussions here that were once an inspiration prior to the referendum is a mistake that I and others have made.

I’m sure I’m not alone,

you are not Alex, you are a better man than me
my apologies for the spat the other night

yours
as ever
Schrodingers cat

Re Tommy – every saint has a past, every sinner has a future. Tommy is on board for the full indy haul, however long it takes. He has done a lot for the cause in recent months in particular. He is not the enemy. We know who they are. Let us reserve our scorn and criticism for them.

@schrodingers cat

Cheers mr cat, but don’t get me greeting 🙂

How wonderful if the uninformed, the ill-informed, and the sheer terrified, had voted Yes.

We could have had a nation state like Evo Morales, where natural resources are put at the disposal of the poor – now fallen to about ‘one in five’ from a figure once over 80% of the Bolivian population.

It seems certain he will be elected soon to a third term of office with a strong socialist agenda, fervently anti-capitalist, yet against all predictions his country’s economic growth has risen by 5% a year.

Even the USA is impressed.

Genuine democracy is everywhere practised. Voting is mandatory. The state is its own booming economy. The poor feel part of the nation, key to its economy.

“We won’t Evo. Nobody gave us anything before.” (Guardian quote)

the ssp taken to task by the NOTW

they descended into infighting

but let us not lose focus of the real villains in this episode

the notw, which has since dissolved and andy coulson is now in jail

sheridans conviction was base on these peoples testimony

it isnt worth toilet paper, sheridan will clear his name

but the ssp was trashed by a red top, remember that

the infighting in the ssp was caused by a newspaper who reputation was so bad it is now folded

let us not lose sight of who the real criminals here, it wasnt fox or sheridan, it was our common enemy, the british msm, and we have all been victims of these people
know your enemy
our enemy is the british media

not tommy sheridan, or anyone who supports indy

We have been humiliated, deceived, impoverished and intimidated for decades, but it wasn’t until the fortnight prior to Sep 18th that it became impossible for even the thickest to ignore. Our weakest, most vulnerable citizens were openly terrorised by colluding MSM/government agencies, and there was precious little we could do to stop it.

The abuse of Scotland’s people and resources has become intolerable, and it’s down to us to stop it – no-one else will do it for us

fighting talk mr brotherhood, i have personal experience of what you say
i saw a wee wify in tears in a village in fife, had been doorsteped bt the bt mob 2 days earlier, threatened to drop by on sept the 19th and relieve her of her pension book

what mr brotherhood says is not a conspiracy theory, it is the truth, i have seen it with my own eyes
regardless of where your politics lie……..this is so, so, wrong
“no-one else will do it for us.”

………..I am still here……..

Margaret Curran calls home a luxury house in Glasgow’s leafy south side. The property, worth around £650,000 is a world away from the kind of housing used by most of her would-be constituents in the city’s deprived East End. She again told voters after a campaign launch that she had lived in the city’s East End ‘all her life’. But the claim has been exposed as untrue after it emerged that she has actually lived in a far more affluent part of the city for several years. The disclosure has sparked accusations from election rivals that Mrs Curran cannot be trusted to tell the truth to voters.

link to caltonjock.com

Ian Brotherhood
very powerfully put.

Just been watching the footage from George Square today…. Why does it remind me of the independence movement in the Baltic nations in the late 1980s….. they were sat upon by the evil empire…. until the evil empire suddenly collapsed a couple of years later…..

@dakk

The 2015 GE is only target number one! but a big target none the less. I hope all the YES supporters will be voting SNP unless there are areas where SNP strategically stand done to offer a “better” candidate a chance.

In 2016 HE all parties in in with a shout, hopefully the pro-indy parties will win massively.

@Ian Brotherhood

Well said, hits the nail on the head me, never bow down to those that proclaim themselves as your Imperial Masters.

I saw the death of the Scottish Labour Party in George Square today. Suicide is perhaps a better description. They just handed our resources, our poor and vulnerable and all of us back to the money men of London by giving a Scottish face to a Tory campaign.

To protect their own positions in the great imperial and loyal British Labour Party and its dreams of winning in Tory Kent and Sussex they sold Scotland. I didn’t hear the people at the Rally today disliking Labour. I heard them despising it (and the Daily Record).

What an uplifting experience. It was a privilege to stand in George Square today and to know, as I watched young person after young person on the stage commit to independence, that my 55 years in the SNP have not been wasted.

And devo max? Forget it. The train has already left on that one. This is about independence and none of our young folk are swallowing the devolution mince.

I was standing at the barrier of the stage with other wingers when Tommy Sheridan opened the days events. Specifically he said how Scotland must rid herself of the Blue Tories and the Red Tories.

Got the biggest cheer for that from the pro-indy crowd. Never forget a great deal of that pro-indy crowd were now ex-labour, dead parrot labour. Nobody votes for dead parrots.

Any labour cooncillor watching on their day off from the chambers across the square will now be wringing their hands or maybe phoning a friend.

Problem, they now have no friends. GIRFUY

@ Tackety Beets, 11;02pm

I have had a bit of fun on other sites debunking the Naw bags ! This fun is insignificant to the fun etc that you all bring to this site .
Sadly the last week or so has been , at times ………… ” stuck for words ”
Perhaps we are all missing the Rev posting new subjects which leaves us wandering O/T

As my other half has said to me, yessers are still angry, aggrieved and feeling more than hurt and bruised by the result of the referendum after a long campaign that was seriously hard work, but, incredibly uplifting and joyous.

It was a shock and some of the reactions are a bit like recovering from concussion; thoughts firing off in all directions until they finally come together and make sense.

Also, you are right, on this site we have not had on a regular basis the glue which holds it together as the Rev takes a well-deserved break. See, you are missed Stu!

The Yes campaign is, however, gathering itself up and moving forward with enthusiasm as can be seen from the gatherings and meetings which have taken place since the referendum.

Folks on this site are adjusting too and normal service is resuming. Look at the posts this evening about carrying on working together all that peace breaking out in the posts. 🙂

I have no doubt that Wings will continue to be our “place to go”.

Naomi on YouTube
link to youtube.com

sunday herald
Seems to be kidding us on ,pretends to be for Scotland but sneaks in division and negativity in almost every written topic (like some on here),one last chance next Sun.

Tommy was stitched up by the Establishment, they wanted him and SSP destroyed,SSP was taking too many votes from Labour and Establishment hate anything called Socialist.

Wow just read that link to calton jock about Margaret Curran – what a litany of filth she has left in her wake. I always thought she was bitchy, but she has went even further down in my estimation. When you read this kind of crap, it is absolutely imperative that this woman is removed! How the f**k can you possibly run up c.£170k in expenses in a year????? Going between Glasgow and Edinburgh, even allowing for other jaunts etc? Beggars belief. Also, it points yet again to Glasgow City Council as a rotten borough for the poor residents – cheated out of decent representatives who seem to think its their birthright to have a seat there 🙁

Read that Scotsman article about the seats Farage is targetting. It’s like the top 10 list that even a big SNP percent like 48% is unlikely to win – without help.

For me, the 70515 target isn’t 20 SNP seats, or 30, or even 40 pro-indy seats. It’s the whole caboodle, the full monty, all 59 of them.

Mmm, back to work with a smile on my face. I’m getting excited.

Can I just point out again that the Sunday Herald is a newspaper, not a YES or SNP broadsheet. It will regularly print stuff from the other side.
And it would lose all credibility as a newspaper if it did not comment strongly on any SNP cock up for instance.

You cannot complain about “lack of balance” in most of the media and then demand lack of balance from the Sunday Herald.
Neither Tom Gordon or Paul Hutcheon are independence supporters. They are staff writers at the Herald and Sunday Herald

The story in today’s Sunday Herald about Nicola and Peter is fair comment (though I very much doubt if Gordon got it from high SNP sources as he claims)

Aye there are loads of folk who want to be British.But most of them are boring bastards.And incontinent.

yesindyref2,

“For me, the 70515 target isn’t 20 SNP seats, or 30, or even 40 pro-indy seats. It’s the whole caboodle, the full monty, all 59 of them.”

Yes, working all out for all 59 seats must be our task now.

But we can only do it as a Yes Alliance. Or in its absence, tactical voting, with WOS providing the guidance per constituency.

Tommy Sheridan may well be able to defeat Ian Davidson in Glasgow, the SNP almost certainly not.

@ Dave McEwan Hill
You say the sunday herald is a newspaper not a YES broadsheet , 04/05/14 front page of sunday herald .
SUNDAY HERALD
SAYS
YES
Thats why we buy/bought it thats why it has grown 111% ,if it has stopped being `pro` YES it should bloody say so and then I can save myself £1.30 because it is not exactly a great read.

So I’m deliberately trying to stifle hope, am I? And I’m ‘Morag’, as if that’s not my name?

Well, ‘Grouse Beater’, who are you? Others have accused you of dissembling, of presenting a false persona and deliberately stirring up trouble in the past. You’ve been extremely careful to conceal your identity, so who knows.

You’ve claimed to have been in a senior position in the BBC, and to have left without a pension after various disagreements. It was always somebody else’s fault from what I remember.

You claimed to have been party to early meetings of Yes Scotland but again to have walked away because the people involved didn’t meet with your approval. All of that might even be true for all I know. If so, it’s a pity you didn’t hang in there and try to influence (I can say that now, I lost a previous post where I tried to say the same thing) the decisions being made.

But hey, we have no idea at all who you are or whether anything you say is true.

Everybody knows who I am, or if they don’t they can easily find out. I’ve posted under my full name here, when Ian had his “use your real name” campaign. I’ve written about what I’ve done in the campaign from time to time, and it’s easily verified – not least by the various people I met up with in the effort to get the WBBs distributed. The WBB that acknowledges me as someone who helped with its production. I’ve exchanged emails with a good few people who post here.

Come to that, I’ve met a lot of Wings people at various get-togethers. I know them by sight, and to talk to, and they know me. Can you say the same? Has “Grouse Beater” ever identified himself at any gathering? Have you given Ronnie a hug?

Far from trying to stifle hope, I’ve been trying to show people that there’s plenty to be optimistic about in the reality of where we are, and that we don’t need to make up exaggerated stories about numbers and so on. I was pointing out that the actual turnout today was very good indeed, and that inflated projections were causing unnecessary disappointment. You on the other hand were busy laying into a new poster with nasty and quite uncalled for accusations.

Now we’re all still a bit raw and liable to go off on one. No doubt I’ve done it myself. But I’ve had enough of your attitude, and it’s not a new thing either. So do us a favour. If you want Stu to appoint you as guardian of the purity of Wings posters, start by introducing yourself as a real, identifiable person.

@ Morag
I am an optimist. I always see the glass as half full. I know that the consensus is that pessimists are more in touch with reality. The glass really is half empty. Nevertheless, that is how I get by.
But I value your realistic assessment of what the possibilities are. You are much more experienced in these matter than me. So don’t let Grouse Beater, whoever he is, divert you.
Bella Caledonia has an interesting post on the idea of UDI, guaranteed to inflame many posters.But worth a visit I think
link to bellacaledonia.org.uk

link to bellacaledonia.org.uk
More grist to the mill.
We have to, somehow, convey the facts to the voting public. The broadcast and press media are universally unionist. That means they lie. Any ideas on how to let people know what the true situation is?

@Cappella, you and I were posting at the same time on that Bella article! Almost the same sentiments too! Our bloody State Broadcaster!

Glad to see Alan Grogan not going back to Labour then, but a bit disappointed in him saying that he can’t/won’t join Labour, as he is not about Nationalism. That comment misrepresents SNP’s objective re. independence. I totally get if he can’t get along with their policies etc., but not for that reason. I’m saying that because in his other Tweet, he talks about the poor etc., and it is very clear that the SNP have done an awful lot for the vulnerable.

@Morag Kerr. You of all people on this site have no need to justify yourself to anybody,most of us know you have a analytical mind & this site is all the better for it,dont let people who dont know you wind you up,as Alex Clarke says the sniping on here should stop,we have more to consentrate on in the coming months. Big Hugs to You Morag xx.

sorry, that should have read – wont join SNP – need to get to bed now!

@Rock

No point telling me “Allan Grogan has been reported as saying that a vote for the SNP in 2015 will let the Tories in”

I have no idea if that is true or not. I supplied you with links to the source when the man himself cut up his Labour membership card.

You ya prick are making the false accusations so you can fuck right off. Diddy.

@Rock

Did you bother even reading the link to the second tweet from Allan Grogan I posted. Nah I doubt it.

Rock
Do you mean this from link to facebook.com

“Conservatives:Vote UKIP get Labour

Labour: Vote SNP, SSP, Green get the Tories..

I would love to see a party say.. vote for us because we are you, we listen to you, we will take care of you… We are YOU!”

If that’s what you mean, read the last sentence again, and note the : after the two parties. He’s saying that’s what THEY say. It’s not what he says.

From the Herald, Labour membership in Scotland last reported at 13,000 and dropping, probably faster after the surge in SNP membership.

Meanwhile Green at 6,300 and rising. Maybe they could overtake Labour on the way down, and even Conservative at 12,000 destination unknown with UKIP on the way, and become the second largest party in Scotland.

Does that mean, if their number of MSPs were also the second largest group in Holyrood, they’d be forced to be the opposition? I can just visualise FMQ:

(Patrick) “Nicola, we in the Green party want Independence, what is the position of the SNP on this?”

(Nicola) “Patrick, our position is we in the SNP want Independence, what is the Green position on this?”

Repeat until Tricia Marwick gets bored.

@yesindyref2

No, I got your point and thank you.

Just wanted to emphasise it so as there could be NO mistake.

I am completely fed up with the shite being thrown at the so called left wing of the Pro-Indy groups.

It is garbage, nothing has changed about our attitudes though it appears that their is a lot of manipulative bullshit going on in order to change certain attitudes towards the Greens and SSP in Particular.

How do I know this, must be because of my bat ears. Else I’m just making it up and would be better off in Broadmoor.

Once more let’s not fall for it. You all have eyes and ears, open them.

As it says on the tin.

Wings Over Scotland : soaring above Scottish politics

@john king

Now I’m wanting to get involved in another petty spat, nut if I remember correctly has told us he lives in the same street as J.K>Rowling.

Is that true Grouse Beater and if so did you hand deliver a Wee Blue Book to her door. I really hope you did but if not why the fuck not.

You know something, I could tolerate your posts, just upto the referendum. See now, YOU are the most divisive person on this site. Now that is just MY opinion, I’m sure you will have plenty supporters.

I look forward to hearing from you and them 🙂

I suspect Mr Grouse Beater, as was certainly the case with Mr GoldenAyr (where he?,) partakes of modified fruit juice and his demeanor on this Blog varies in proportion to that.

Morning posts may reflect the residual from the previous.

TINS, FEKIN TINS!

BUGGER!

re Grousie

I’m sure he’s capable of defending himself against what? Two minor Wingers, one unemployed (me) the other in a call centre.

Bring it on Mr Big BBC ExeC Man living in the same street as JaKey Rollup I say.

@yesindyref2 says: 13 October, 2014 at 12:14 am:

“I think 70515 has a certain ring to it!”

I thought the SNP membership had gone above 70515!
Oh! Wait a mo – that’s not what you’re saying.

Alex: I am completely fed up with the shite being thrown at the so called left wing of the Pro-Indy groups.

Now you sound like me, tetchy, and for the same reason.

@Grouse Beater

You don’t read all your fan mail then? You are deluded, as is obvious from the above posts many regulars do not trust you.

Just for clarity, I’ve always thought of you as a total arsehole and one who could never be trusted. But I only speak for myself.

You have made your own bed and it was not of my making.

I remember Dick Gaughan and myself questioning Grousebeater’s credentials on here, but I became convinced he was genuine enough.

Having individual fall outs – see the famous Peoples Front of Judea thread – doesn’t stop people from wanting independence.

“Forking tines” would have been funnier Bugger… 🙂

Just wondering like, but an annual Hope over Fear day? Something along the lines of a celebration of self determination? Political talking shops, all party, no party representation, music, food etc. A celebration of hope over fear in the shape of a carnival as opposed to a rally. A fixed place which could be used for an event, a place to be used to welcome new converts. More importantly a way of staying in the public consciousness. I’m sure someone has thought of this.

Just the beginning. 🙂

1. Alex Clark says:
at alex
A Small plea, I’m not here to lecture as I have been as guilty as anyone since the referendum result.
Getting into petty spats and in reality lowering the tone of the type of conversations and discussions here that were once an inspiration prior to the referendum is a mistake that I and others have made.
I’m sure I’m not alone,
1. Alex Clark says:
@Rock
Did you bother even reading the link to the second tweet from Allan Grogan I posted. Nah I doubt it.
1. Alex Clark says:
@Rock
No point telling me “Allan Grogan has been reported as saying that a vote for the SNP in 2015 will let the Tories in”
I have no idea if that is true or not. I supplied you with links to the source when the man himself cut up his Labour membership card.
You ya prick are making the false accusations so you can fuck right off. Diddy.
1. Alex Clark says:
@Valerie
Then it is the wider movements job to “educate” him that it’s not about Nationalism. A leopard doesn’t change it’s spots overnight.
But who is to say that you are right!
We are all allowed to come to our our conclusions. I’d say that is the whole fucking point.
Sorry for the sweary word, but helps to emphasise what I’m saying. No one is perfect, not even Alex Salmond or Nicola Sturgeon.
ronnie anderson says:
@Morag Kerr. You of all people on this site have no need to justify yourself to anybody,most of us know you have a analytical mind & this site is all the better for it,dont let people who dont know you wind you up,as Alex Clarke says the sniping on here should stop,we have more to consentrate on in the coming months. Big Hugs to You Morag xx.
yesindyref2 says:
Alex
My point was that it WASN’T Alan Grogan who said “don’t vote SNP it’ll let the Tories in”, it was said about what LABOUR had said. To spell it out, LABOUR are saying “Don’t vote SNP etc. it’ll let the Tories in”.
People don’t fucking read!

1. Alex Clark says:
@john king
Now I’m wanting to get involved in another petty spat, nut if I remember correctly has told us he lives in the same street as J.K>Rowling.
Is that true Grouse Beater and if so did you hand deliver a Wee Blue Book to her door. I really hope you did but if not why the fuck not.
You know something, I could tolerate your posts, just upto the referendum. See now, YOU are the most divisive person on this site. Now that is just MY opinion, I’m sure you will have plenty supporters.
I look forward to hearing from you and them

@ Cat.

Splitter…

Alex: I’ve always thought of you as a total arsehole

I recall one of your posts saying, ‘Got you all wrong, Grouse Beater. I apologise.’ I replied, no need to apologise. I realise there’s an initiation ceremony to go through and we are all aiming for independence.’

Anyhow, you’ve made your point, but I’d rather discuss the way forward to another referendum, or how the rise of Ukip might just activate a reaction in Scotland sufficient to tip the balance to a majority Yes.

Then there’s problem of how to keep enthusiasm high in the greatly increased membership of the SNP. Conventional constituency business will soon bore them to death. They need to be doing something cosntructive that moves things forward to the ideal goal.

Those are the issues.

I’m holding my breath on this whole Labour will get over run by SNP in the GE mindset.

If we won’t vote YES we’re more than capable of giving Labour another chance when we get the scare story that a vote for the SNP will let the Tories in.

My faith in other voters is not quite that of some of the more positve thinkers on here. There is no chance of another vote on indepence in near future. The only window would be if UK as a whole votes to leave the EU and even then I’m not sure how it can be worked.

Macart: an annual Hope over Fear day?

I like that idea – but I hope it became unnecessary sooner than later, when we regain sovereignty.

I just like the thought of continuing the carnival atmo that large YES gathering brought wherever they appeared in the past couple of years.

More importantly I like the thought of bringing genuine interest and dare I say it fun engagement with politics to people. Politics isn’t just for politician its for us and we decide how it should be conducted.

Now say the idea of a fixed event took off. Instead of a party conference, you’d have a people’s conference where we decide how to talk about our governance and how we want parties to conduct that governance. If we want to have a ‘party’ while we’re at it and a bit of of a celebre, then what’s to stop us? If we want to have fun with our politics and get people engaged then we can do that too. 🙂

Anyhow, you’ve made your point, but I’d rather discuss the way forward to another referendum, or how the rise of Ukip might just activate a reaction in Scotland sufficient to tip the balance to a majority Yes.

Then there’s problem of how to keep enthusiasm high in the greatly increased membership of the SNP. Conventional constituency business will soon bore them to death. They need to be doing something cosntructive that moves things forward to the ideal goal.

Those are the issues.

Actually GB, i was thinking similar thoughts last night, my daughter who, recently joined the snp, was complaining that she hadnt heard back from central office yet. i pointed out the inevitable delay due to so many new members etc, but a thought struck me, for anyone who has been involved in party politics in scotland, a constituency branch meeting usually involves meeting in a little used room above the local pub of between 10-20 people. we now have on average 1000 new snp members per constituency, are they voters, members or activists? what happens when at the next branch meeting, 1000 people turn up?
what the fukc do we do now?

@Macart

How about a ‘hub’ in every town,village and city where YES and most importantly disenchanted NO voters can pop in. If such a café or drop in centre were to offer support regarding prescriptions pick up, help for the elderly with lifts or small jobs then such a place in communities could be so valuable to the independence movement.

Perhaps the scotgov could be approached with a view to small grants to cover overheads. If there are buildings lying empty at the moment, would it not be a good idea to make use of them and at the same time give people who are looking for work a way to use their skills and motivation.

Schrodinger: Actually GB, i was thinking similar thoughts last night, my daughter who, recently joined the snp, was complaining that she hadnt heard back from central office yet.

You’re right. Branch admin must be overwhelmed!

As you know, branch officers are volunteers, many with day jobs making a huge increase in membership difficult to manage. My own branch has moved meetings to a vast hall in the centre of Edinburgh to accommodate newcomers.

I’m looking forward to hearing new voices, not a little nervous that mine will become old-school. But that’s the way of it, and life. I joined the SNP so that I could not, would not prevaricate – I wanted to announce my commitment boldly. Alas, if only I’d foreseen how much money I’d lose at Hills backing my judgment!

Grouse, Thepnr, Morag, et al. We all have the same goal in mind though we differ in the idealeans to the end so come on, let’s leave the petty bitching and point scoring behind. It serves no practical purpose other than giving our mutual enemies a laugh at our expense.
Move along now, you’re blocking the road. 😉

@Nana

Excellent idea Nana. Its got to be approachable and considered a place where people can gather to discuss how government and politics can work in their favour as providing the practical useful services you suggest. A network of community based Hope over Fear no less. A network which can be seen to be working against austerity based community difficulties and provide useful talking shops and political engagement at the same time.

They would also provide a useful way of coordinating and advertising events.

I like it.

Matthew Wright on The Wright Stuff has just said to Nadine Dorries that lots of people on his twitter asking how come Nadine is a Tory, she sounds more like Labour to me? Well, her face was a picture.

But there you have it. Labour, Tory, same difference.

@Bill McLean. I’m pretty sure that kind of activity comes within the definition of ‘Terrorism’. I thought Westminster was protecting us against that sort of thing.

@Macart

Exactly. It would be great if YES activists from all the various parties etc could be trying to set up such places.
Anyone having any contact with SNP ministers should maybe bend their ear!

In almost every town I’ve been through in the last few years there are plenty unused small buildings, some left to go to ruin which would benefit from a facelift. Again doing that would surely benefit the towns outlook.

With all the government cutbacks a lot of community centres etc have had to close so elderly people don’t see much community spirit. We need these hubs for everyone’s well being.

@Mealer says: 13 October, 2014 at 12:58 am:

“Aye there are loads of folk who want to be British. But most of them are boring bastards.And incontinent.”

For crying out loud, Mealer, what the hell is it about people who do not stop and think what the words they use actually mean and realise they are talking utter, ” rectally sphinctered bovine waste matter”, (that’s bullshit if you haven’t already caught on. Let’s get things correct, Mealer.

British is, “belonging to Britain”, All Scots, Welsh, English, N. Irish, Channel Islanders and Manx people are British. Westminster isnot owner of Britain.

I’m as British as yon numptie Cameron who so often wrongly claims he is, “Prime Minister of Britain”.

This whole idiotic confusion of such terms as, Britain, England and United Kingdom by the Westminster Mafia is a deliberate tactic to fool people of what is going on before their very eyes. The facts prove they are doing so successfully.

Scottish people seem unable to see what stares them in the face. The fact is that Westminster is Not the Parliament of Britain. That Westminster is Not the Parliament of The United Kingdom of Great Britain for, upon the introduction of Devolved parliaments, Westminster became the actual Parliament of the actual country of England.

The truth though is that the Westminster Parliament operates as the de facto Parliament of the Country of England. It legislates for England and adds wee codicils to English legislation to accommodate Scots, Welsh and N. I. laws. It funds England directly as The United Kingdom and decides the Block Grants of Scotland, Wales & N. I. while tying their funding to that of the Country of England. It devolves the powers of that unelected de facto parliament of England to the three devolved parliaments and by the numbers of elected members assures that under Westminster rule England will remain the Master Race.

533 English UK members
59 Scots UK Members.
40 Welsh UK members.
18 N.I. UK Members.

That is 533 Englanders vs 59+40+18=117 and that’s a clear majority of 533-117=416 Englanders over all other United Kingdom countries.

England has made itself The Master Race, (disguised as the UK), and is dictating English powers over the Welsh, N. Irish and Scotland. All that in what was once a bipartite union of only the Kingdoms of Scotland & England in 1706/7.

Settling for devolution of any kind, while Westminster remains the de facto parliament of England, means that we Scots have voted to remain enslaved by the 533 English parliamentarians disguised as the United Kingdom Parliament.

Anyone able to prove that what I have just claimed is not the actual situation?

I’m all for heated debate (not childish spats) but some of the abusive comments on here recently have me wondering if i want to continue reading Wings and i may not be the only one.
I hope Stu can sort some of this out on his return because reading through some of the, frankly ridiculous, tit for tat abuse is not doing this site any favours.

If i get jumped all over because of this comment so be it.

Robert: Settling for devolution of any kind, while Westminster remains the de facto parliament of England, means that we Scots have voted to remain enslaved by the 533 English parliamentarians disguised as the United Kingdom Parliament.

There are No voters who’d laugh at the suggestion they are ‘enslaved,’ but I know what you mean. We get alien policies imposed on us composed for a different nation.

Anyhow, got to get back to work. Till next time …

Beers were always in tins, never cans.

Why, because, in days on yore they were tine cans were “tinned” on the inside, against corrosion.

@Nana

Well we know that politicians and connected members pay attention to this site and these threads. Hopefully more than one one will have clocked this conversation. We can’t let good ideas and a positive momentum go to waste. People are going to need that kind of network and that kind of aid in the next couple of years.

“Settling for devolution of any kind, while Westminster remains the de facto parliament of England, means that we Scots have voted to remain enslaved by the 533 English parliamentarians disguised as the United Kingdom Parliament.

Anyone able to prove that what I have just claimed is not the actual situation?”

im not settling for devo max, FFA, i just think that in the next 6 months, this is the vehicule we must ride towards independence

It is after all something even the nos agree on

if we achieve this in may 2015, and i believe we can

i will go back to moaning about trident, illegal wars and stupid foriegn policies like pulling out of the EU 🙂

Graeme

I tend to agree, and I have lost track over what the actual argument is about to boot.

We have a job to do, the Smith Commission needs to be held on track, Home Rule (or as near as damn it) secured, Labour prevented from scuppering aspirations for cheap party gain in Westminster and we have a General Election coming up. All the Yes parties are doing well and all support continuing the fight…so should we.

Arguing over which version of the Judean Front we are seems a tad pointless and no doubt delights those who would like to derail the continuation of the Yes impetus. There are plenty of other things to discuss without nipping over the number angels that can stand on a pin head.

We all support independence and we will all take Home Rule as a step towards that. Now that Smith is taking personal submissions I think we should be discussing our wish list to that Commission.

I see Stu is back online, in that he has re-tweeted about three tweets into his timeline.

I was beginning to get a bit worried about him, because he disappeared on Saturday morning shortly after Kate Higgins tweeted something indescribably vile about him. Several Wings people (and a couple of non-Wings people) came to his defence, but he seemed quite upset by it.

I hope he’s been having a pleasant, relaxing time away from the computer, and not seething with rage about a jealous, irrational harpy and her mind-games.

The page for the Smith Commission for those that haven’t sighted it.

link to smith-commission.scot

Nana Smith @9.33

That’s an excellent idea.
Our Yes shop is going to continue as an SNP one, therefore a presence in the community will persist. I really hope they can reach out to that all important grey vote of which there are many around hereabouts.
The Yes canvassers completely missed these folks, in fact all they saw were three last minute No Borders leafletters and the usual Labour lifts to the pollng station.
We also had an elderly lady in tears at our polling station over fear of her pension being stopped and this was relayed to her my her chauffeur.
She was inconsolable because she wanted in her heart of hearts to vote Yes.

There were BTers in the social clubs, bowling greens and in the care homes. We even had one running the polling station FGS!

My dad lives in a Grey vote area and sometimes they don’t see anyone for months.
One old lady froze to death last year because she never saw anyone, she lay dead for 3 months before being found. This should have flagged up the problem but still they live in isolation. BEEB fodder.

Inclusion over fear.

Just wanted to say after reading some very disagreeable posts over the past day it is time for reconciliation and to remember why we are all here. I would also say to many of you and I am a bit of an insomniac that you are better sleeping on it and if not that at least getting away from here of a night. Then you will not regret your words
I confess that I said I would rather have Tommy Sheridan than the people I felt shafted him. I always saw Tommy as one of those charismatic people that the Establishment really wanted rid of. Tommy was taking too many people away from the Establishment first choice, the working class party which they bought many years ago.
We should all remember though and I do try very hard to do so that we all want a free and independent country and if we do not stick together we will be another failed state, within another failing state.

Anyone know the actual attendance at the ‘Hope over Fear’ rally in George Square yesterday?

The Herald says 7000
The Scotsman just says ‘thousands’
and the Daily Record doesn’t mention it at all

Schrodinger: what about some type of web page for posting info etc?

Ah, understood. I like that idea – they’ll want freedom to interchange ideas and experiences that are not subject to a branch agenda or presiding officer’s guillotine.

To the peacemakers:

On the SSP ad infinitum despute – please count me out. I have not engaged in it, nor feel the inclination to get involved.

I’m now going to stop biting my hand and comment. The door is open on this matter and as a great supporter of this forum; I want my tuppence worth heard.

The reason that I have been reading this blog for well over a year has been the incisive and wholly informative wit expressed by many of the ‘regular’ contributors.

Had it not been for WoS I would have not been able to ascertain from the comments and links, much of what was important in the big ‘debate’. Hell, much more honest discussion was (is) being deliberated here than within the institutions that I, and I’m sure many more of us have grown up to believe in and trust.

But…

I was at George Square yesterday with my eldest son.

Since it had been announced that both the gathering was to happen, and that WoS representatives would also be in attendance, I looked forward to a combined appearance for the event and a “how do you do?” (face to meme to face) with the WoS supporters.

In the end, I avoided WoS. Why?

Just recently, I have read nothing but what can simply be put as negative, pompous “you’re not worthy” type sentiments expressed to those who have dared enter the arena of WoS comment. This has been increasing especially since the 18th.

One comment recently even stated “have you seen how many new contributors there have been…” Not written in encouraging tone.

I won’t mention names…you know who they are…you know who you are.

Having done my duty pre-referendum; having printed off and distributed many a copy of the WBB to a very hostile audience (middle management, white collar “my bank balance is all that counts in my life” type head in the sand NO voter) I feel I have earned some right to make my pathetic, un-worthy, illiterate utterances (in comparison to those esteemed long-term contributing word-smiths on here)

I have persuaded many a person to reads this blog, and to contribute if they have a unique point and/or wish to add to an existing debate. I have hoped that many a wavering weak-NO voter might have been persuaded by some of the factors here that have just not persuaded them to switch to a vote of faith elsewhere.

How personally humiliating to now have folks state to me “why bother with WoS, it reads as an elite forum…”read our words, don’t dare contribute or contradict”

My university son was of the same opinion yesterday…”these are the folks who publicly slate a 19 year old for not having the skills to express himself eloquently and in ordered fashion. So much for nurturing the young”

…and yet, comments on here since yesterday from the more progressive contributors praising youthful speech makers at yesterdays event.

Can I therefore ask. Could you please (some of you) start and think about what you say to others who are perhaps not so capable, but all the same, have a point to make.

You few who think you have a right to demean others, either because they are new contributors and/or are not so witty and articulate…think on about the disillusionment you are causing. And this is a negative influence reaching out to those who never do comment, but merely read.

Try a bit of nurture and positivity.

Oh, and hugs to you too Ronnie!

@SquareHaggis

My friend is a thoroughly good person. In that she does as much as she can to help the elderly in her community and has done for many many years. Once a week she picks up prescriptions and other essential items for her ‘dears’ as she calls them and on Thursday she ferries them into town for a weekly shop. She does all this from her own pocket.

Don’t know how much longer she can do this as her own health is not great at the moment, so all will lose out. I bet the old dears will miss her as she is company for a short while each week.

Before the 18th she explained to them the pensions issues and most of them voted YES. Two voted NO and said they were too scared by what they were hearing on the tele and nothing she told them was persuasive enough.

So any help we can give the elderly while at the same time ‘educating’ regarding independence is to be applauded

@ Nana Smith, 9:33am; Macart, 9:43am

Re Yes hubs for education and lending a helping hand in the community.

The first thing will always be how to fund premises such a set up. I know, our little group found that rents/rates expected even for premises which have been empty for years was prohibitive and owners were not keen to be associated with the campaign. So, your idea about seeking out grants might bear some fruit if these hubs are used to assist the wider community.

I believe that some Yes shops are still open and that Yes cafés idea are propsed in a some areas. Encouraging younger people to become involved in such activity would bode well for the future too.

Thank goodness for your posts this morning dealing with practical ideas for moving forward instead of navel gazing.
Too much ego here at the moment and more than enough of the “he said, she said, he said” and I thought peace might be breaking out yesterday!

We’ve got work to do.

@Capella says: 13 October, 2014 at 2:07 am:

“Any ideas on how to let people know what the true situation is?

Sure I have, Capella, and I’m getting tired of telling it to Wingers.

Tell the people the truth of what, “The United Kingdom” originally was and what it has now become. The facts are plain enough and easy enough to prove.

In 1706/7 two equally sovereign independent Kingdoms, (that between them included four countries), signed a Treaty of Union to finally unite the monarchy that wore both crowns as one realm and to also unite their two independent parliaments under a completely new parliament.

Then, on 4 Apr 2009, the whole legal Treaty of Union and its bipartite ideal was upended by Westminster and stands upon its head. The blatant confidence trick of –
DEVOLUTION – was worked against the sovereign people of Scotland by the Westminster Establishment and, to date, most of The People of Scotland still fail to realise they are being played as suckers and taken in by the Establishments clever bunkum trick.

Watch this video folks and realise what we thought we were getting : –
link to youtube.com

Now consider what we have actually been fooled into accepting by getting Devolved powers by the Establishment. Instead of the bipartite United Kingdom returning to two independent parliaments both with a federal parliament at Westminster and with the realm remaining as one United Kingdom the Establishment conned us into accepting a quadratic set-up of four individual countries but with only three of them getting a devolved parliament. That made the United Kingdom’s elected Parliament also assuming the role of an unelected, (as such), Parliament of England.

The numbers game was not at first apparent : – 533 unelected members of the de facto parliament of the country of England sat at Westminster as elected United Kingdom Members and thus English Members outnumbered all others with the figures showing as English 533 minus 59 Scots, 40 Welsh and 18 N.I members. A clear majority of English members of (533-59-40-18=533)-117))= 416.

The situation since then has been exactly as described by David Mundell, “The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as The United Kingdom.“. The Establishment is now the Country of England’s 533 unelected members devolving England’s powers to the other three devolved parliaments while it funds England directly as the United Kingdom, decides the subservient countries block grants by use of Barnett Consequentials and dictates to us all what we can & cannot do and rubbing our noses in it by demanding the rest of us not interfere when the actual UK parliament decides it is the Parliament of England.

Why then are not the Scottish political parties telling it how it is?, (and I’m not talking about the unionist parties here). Why are the actual Scottish Parties not telling the people of Scotland, “Hey Jock, you’ve been had. Na! ni! na! ni! Na! Na!”?

UKIP’s Farage invited to take part in one of the TV election debates with ‘other’ 3 party leaders! No SNP, Greens, etc? Is the UK media driving political agenda…?

Must get control of broadcasting in Smith proposals!

Apologies for the double post. I had a clear out of my computer and downloaded some internet banking protection software and I am having a wee bit of a problem getting it all to behave….see computers.

I have family that live in the south of Edinburgh. Some were definite No voters but some were Dks. This is Ian Murrays district. They had only a couple of leaflets from yes so I sent some of them WBBs. This is labour heartland so I can’t understand why No one from Yes was seen around. We have to target areas like this next year!

@ Morag

I and Kate Higgin’s paths crossed a long time ago, before Wings and does anyone remember her involvement with Geoff Breslin and his unconvinced position on independence and the SNP?

Anyway, I think she an egoistical, unhinged, chancer, always on the look out for the main chance to advance Kate Higgins. A professional feminist, in my book.

If I cam orrect Stu and Kate actually were contemporaneous, for a short period, on G Breslin’s blog. He must have really got up her nose.