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Wings Over Scotland

Breaking geological news

Posted on December 27, 2013 by

Looks like the dastardly SNP have succeeded in digging that giant trench from the Solway to the Tweed and sailing Scotland off towards its Nordic neighbours. Poor England, according to tomorrow’s Mail, is now an island.


We have a feeling, readers, that the Scottish edition won’t be carrying that headline.

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    88 to “Breaking geological news”

    1. HulloHulot says:

      And it seems we took Wales with us!

    2. Derek says:

      I thought that the most densely populated European country was Belgium?

    3. Richard says:

      A double blow, cast adrift AND our beloved Andy Murray denied a much deserved knighthood ;-p

    4. Stevie says:

      By heck, we’d like to take Wales with us

    5. msean says:

      Does that mean we are seperatists right enough.then?Good!

    6. GrutsForTea says:

      That would be Daily Mail Island…

    7. Seasick Dave says:

      On the bright side, there is a 10 quid voucher for Debenhams.

    8. Marcia says:

      I would have thought the most densely country would be Monaco or the Vatican but the newspaper has used the term, major’ and in Europe too.  I thought the Mail believed Europe did not include England?
      Have we spare bedrooms in Scotland that are not subject to the bedroom tax to help them out?

    9. Brian Powell says:

      This is the first stage of shipping the ‘poor’ of England into Scotland.  
      Labour inScotland have pushed the One Nation policy so hard they might be taken at their word and the disadvantaged in Newcastle , London, Birmingham and Manchester moved here.

    10. Arbroath 1320 says:

      I’m thinking the main headline in tomorrow’s Scottish Daily Mail will be “Andy Murray will not be knighted and it woz the Mail that won this non award for that upstart Scot!” 😆

    11. David Agnew says:

      Jesus H Christ – why doesn’t this arse rag of a paper stop with the pretence & start calling itself “Der Sturmer”? 

    12. Gavin Barrie (Jammach) says:

      Wouldn’t it be wonderful to hack into The Daily mail’s content and distribution system … So every so often the Scottish edition went to London and the Home Counties … And vica versa. Might be a bit of an eye opener for some people …

    13. Andrew Morton says:

      OT. BBC Scotland are allowing comments on their story about microchipping dogs. I have made the following comment,
      “My dog has a question. Why don’t BBC Scotland broadcast the fact that they have been censured by the BBC Trust over their misreporting of the Irish Foreign Minister’s remarks about Scotland’s membership of the EU? I’ve tried explaining to him that this would be highly embarrassing for John Boothman and could discredit the BBC’s close association with the no campaign but he won’t accept it.”
      Doubtless the mods will remove it but it’ll be fun while it lasts.

    14. Paula Rose says:

      Speeded up coastal erosion – it’s NOT FAIR.

    15. Calum Craig says:

      Against my better judgement had a quick look at the comments for this story on the Mail website…..
      I now feel so dirty an acid bath wouldn’t clean me. Eg. “UK out of Europe and start sweeping the UK clean and returning the human trash to their own countries unless they contribute positively to the growth of the country.” Which they do….

    16. Calum Craig says:

      Just sorted the comments by “Best rated”…. JFC!!

    17. caz-m says:

      I thought this was the season of goodwill to all people. The press were meant to be playing it low key.

      There must be a good few thousand Don’t Knows who are now YES voters. And that is just going on todays shit.

    18. Angry Weegie says:

      The whole argument’s false.  Everyone knows that if a trench was dug along the Scottish border, England would float off into the Atlantic, as England only stays where it is because it’s supported by Scotland.

    19. Faltdubh says:

      Seems almost every week there’s a headline of this.
      I’m guessing the most liked comment will be something like
      “We should follow Oz and stick a sign up saying we are full” Or ”Not so Great Britain.”

    20. Veda says:

      Sadly – there is more than a grain of truth – England is vastly overcrowded.

      Its simplistic and too easy to pretend Scotland could afford the influx of migrants that England has absorbed.

    21. Seasick Dave says:

      Here’s an interesting article on the Herald from an English woman who has just made her home in Glasgow.

    22. Triangular Ears says:

      Yet the CEBR are telling us that the UK will be the biggest economy in Europe by 2030, because of…

      …population growth!  Their report also says that the UK will become LESS dependent on other European economies.  Really?  How will population growth in an already crowded country that can’t feed itself result in less dependence on neighbouring countries???  Think tanks really are just bullshit scenario tanks.


    23. Doug Daniel says:

      Andy Murray not getting a knighthood? I wonder what that might indicate…?
      “Hey Andy, we’ll put you forward for a knighthood on the condition that you come out against independence.”

    24. joe kane says:

      The Daily Mosley, as usual, paraphrasing far-right slogans and politics, In this case that the island of England is ‘full up’.

      I wonder what the hacks at the Daily Mosley went dressed up as to their xmas office do this year? From a 2005 spat between the then Mayor of London, Ken Livingston, and the Daily Mail –

      …‘when David [English] retired as editor of the Daily Mail in order to take over as chairman of Associated Newspapers, he gave a party wherein he and all his editorial staff dressed up like Hitler and various members of the Third Reich. A memorable appearance of the newspaper’s drama critic Jack Tinker as Goebbels brought the house down.’ This is contained in the book An Unlikely Hero, a history of the Daily Mail, on p171, whose author was assisted in its preparation by the most senior members of the Associated Newspaper group.

    25. Macart says:

      I’d vote YES just for the chance we could see the back of the Mail forevermore. Kinda hoping they’ll take huff at having their UK narrative fully rejected by Scotland and fuck off to whatever rock they crawled out from under.

    26. Seanair says:

      Ah blame that Shakespeare guy who was good at writing but pish at geography (“sceptred isle).

    27. Dorothy Devine says:

      I really hate to write this but is the DM not one of the best selling (news)papers in Scotland?

      Has its share of the market not risen as opposed to plummeted?

      I wonder how aware Scots readers are of the difference ‘twixt the Scottish version and the  English version

      “See that Andy Murray ? Steals our English trophies and insults us by no supporting our big girls blouses at footie!”


    28. Andrew Morton says:

      Perhaps Andy Murray was offered a knighthood and turned it down.

    29. sneddon says:

      Dorothy Devine- the Scottish Daily Mails figures dropped  0.6 % to 102,900 something.  So sales are following the national trend in falling. But reading it and following the paper’s line on everything are two seperate things.  How many people watch Dr Who and follow the BBC’s line on Independnece? So I’m not worried 🙂

    30. Harry Shanks says:

      If the DM’s Andy Murray story turns out to be true then all you need ask yourself is: would Tim Henman have been knighted had he won Wimbledon?
      Silly question really.

    31. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Sadly – there is more than a grain of truth – England is vastly overcrowded.”

      I live in England. It IS quite crowded. With white, English-speaking people (including me, of course). Got a plan to do something about that, or is it just brown/foreign folk you want rid of?

    32. Dorothy Devine says:

      Thanks Sneddon but the figure is still  higher than most other papers.

    33. seoc says:

      England culturally overcrowded? Well they refused to pay a living wage in the 1960’s so their manipulation has come home to roost.

      However, that is a small item compared to the inevitable Sharia Law which is likely to be the wish of the majority before long.

      Cause & Effect, etc.

    34. Dorothy Devine says:

      More bad news!
      From the Herald,
      “NEWSPAPER publisher Johnston Press has reached an agreement to reset its financial covenants, which should give it more ­breathing space as it begins work on renegotiating its £300 million debt pile.”
      £300 million in debt and still spewing out drivel in and about Scotland.

    35. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      I posted a few moments ago but it has disappeared.
      Another of my problems with my software or am I straight into moderation?

      looks like it is software problem unless I put too many links into my original post and it has been cybernabbed

    36. Jimsie says:

      Seems that geography is not a strong point down south. I came across a website recently advertising Harris Tweed made in England in the Isle of Uist !

    37. gordoz says:

      @ Darth Veda
      Its simplistic and too easy to pretend Scotland could afford the influx of migrants that England has absorbed.
      What next  – call in the Death Star ?  Would that not take out the over-run green and pleasant land also ?

    38. Annibale says:

      @ Sneddon –
      My father (a definite YES), buys the Daily Mail on a Saturday – because it has the best T.V. guide!

    39. Ken500 says:

      Andy Murray didn’t want a knighthood.

      The waters have started rising.

      People of Independent thought, could buy up the Scotman

      The right wing tax evading newspaper groups are economic with the truth. They want freedom of speech but want to censor everyone else.

      Scotland is half empty. Depopulated by Westminster centric economic policies. i.e. unemployment in the north is a price worth paying for jobs and prosperity in the south. It is only since Devolution the population has risen.

    40. gordoz says:

      Dont think the UK state machine would allow independents  / YES supporters to control the Scotsman (or any other current paper) on any terms, not at this time, on the run up to the REF – come on ?

      Sorry to disappoint – but pretty sure Mr A Murray will come out on same side as Mr Hoy and that clearly wont be YES side.

      Yes would not be to his financial advantage, all sportsmen are money men at heart nowadays. Scotland comes way down the list.
      Its easier to be an internationalist.

      He will be on his own ‘Bread and Butter’ agenda just like Mr Hoy (Sorry Sir)

    41. Dal Riata says:

      So to make an anti-immigration point they make up a false headline. It is Malta that is officially the most crowded country in Europe, not England. But, the Mail, bless their cotton socks, get away with their lying headline by asserting within the preceding article that England is the most crowded “major” European country… Ah!
      Self-aggrandisement has never been a problem for the UK – sorry- Britain – sorry – England, after all, has it!  

    42. Barontorc says:

      @gordoz – I make that two votes for NO then – and its even questionable if either of the two superstars are actually entitled to vote – don’t get caught up with the blame Andy and Chris for the’ NO getting support’ lobby.
      Its like the daily readership of the DM being maybe 3 to 4 times the daily sales figure of 103,000, but do you really believe they are all swallowing the lies and bile it publishes? It’s more than likely that those who do think its credible and true are already spoken for as NO, but that still leaves a helluva lot of the 300-400,000 readers who will be for YES or as yet DK.
      Go down to Ladbrokes and make yourself some money on a YES- 18th  September bet and stop worrying – its gonna be between 60% and 70%. Folks ain’t daft it’s as clear as night and day what needs to be done.
      PS – I would love to really know what the Scottish showbiz stars and sports people really think, because its sure to be that they’re playing to the gallery that gives then a very good living and bears no relation to what’s in their heart of hearts. Do you not think that’s likely to be the case?

    43. kalmar says:

      Is the Scottish edition “THAT worryingly crowded isle”?  Surely a logical proposition for any Scottish Daily Mail readers terrified of an encroaching tide of immigrants to the UK would be to declare independence, pronto!
      The DM is just a big practical joke though, right?

    44. Dal Riata says:

      Meanwhile, the Mail’s Simon Heffer – yes, HIM! – has a ‘quirky’ and ‘satirical’ look ahead to the year 2014.
      In September, he says that:
      “The Scottish referendum on independence sees a heavy defeat for the nationalists. English taxpayers’ groups (who had hoped that independence would mean an end to them having to pay the Scots around £24?billion a year in subsidies) are outraged.
      They demand a recount and their own referendum on the issue.” 
      Oh, how we laughed… at him, the wanker that he is.

    45. Elizabeth says:

      Talking of satire, I see Jonathan Watson is to include  Johann Lamont in his end of year show ‘Only An Excuse’ 🙂

    46. Geoff Huijer says:

      ‘England’ is seen as interchangeable with ‘Britain’ down south.
      I remember David Cameron being interviewed on the ITN (?)
      News at Ten when Blair left & the discussion about the possibility
      of Brown taking over went along the lines of ‘too many Scots in the
      Government already’ etc. Even my English wife at the time commented
      that she ‘thought we were British’ & ‘imagine if they said “too many blacks
      or Pakistanis” there would be a riot’.

      Originally, when we met, she was horrified at the lack of
      knowledge she had about Scotland and thought initially that I just had a
      big chip on my shoulder. She soon saw for herself that the ‘National’ media was
      actually just the English media. She did comment, however, that the Daily Record
      (which I got occasionally) was full of ‘murders’ & ‘despair’.
      No doubt, she would be a certain YES now if she lived here.

    47. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Mr Hoy did at no point express a support for NO. He very carefully expressed no position whatsover on the question which was then translated into no support for an independent Scotland by media elements.

      That he has said nothing since to challenge that assumption may or may not be significant – or may in fact just be the most convenient way of being asked no more questions he’d rather not answer.

      He did at one point point out that, as Scotland was not an independent country, the question was hypothetical but that had Scotland been independent he would have been representing Scotland.

      He did point out that he’d had to do all his training in England however (which is as good an argument for a properly funded independent Scotland as you are likely to get).

      Andy Murray with his Saltire wrist bands very pointedly did not pick up the Union Jack which was laid on the table for him as he picked up the trophy at Wimbledon. That’ll do for me meanwhile.

    48. Dal Riata says:

      Today’s Herald has the ‘Salmond accused over EU membership’ non-story which was printed in the Independent (in the Daily Express,too) yesterday, and ripped a new one here on WOS by Rev. Stu.
      Presumably, these artices are published to give an excuse to promote headlines with anti-Scottish independence/anti-SNP/anti-Alex Salmond agendas. Whether the ‘news’ given within the articles are worthy of such a name seems to be regarded as of less importance than the negative message. 
      Another example of the demise of Scottish print journalism. 

    49. Andrew Morton says:

      Just received Morag’s Lockerbie book in the post. Added to the pile of Christmas books for reading!

    50. Clarinda says:

      Some weeks ago watching a very late night paper review programme while discussing the possibility of who would win the Sports Personality of the Year – one hack defended Andy Murray’s reticence (?) at declaring his love of England as potentially waving a red flag at those rabid Scot nats and risking being terrorised by them. Everyone on the panel agreed with this interesting analysis.

    51. DougtheDug says:

      Dorothy Devine:
      The debt rescheduling for Johnston Press is along the lines of: “If you owe the bank £100 that’s your problem. If you owe the bank £100 million, that’s the bank’s problem.”
      If Johnston Press’s creditors let it go bust they’ll lose most of their money. Their only option is to let it pay less of the debt each month in the hope that it will last long enough to pay them back what they are owed.

    52. David McCann says:

      I never read the DM, so cant pass judgement on its editorial style, but I understand that it is popular with women readers for its celeb content. Could it be that is why Yes is (supposedly) less popular with the fairer sex?

      BTW. Would those giving links to papers I dont read please dont use the direct link but take it in to and then convert it. That way we can all read it without giving ‘click’ revenue.

    53. gordoz says:

      Know what you mean – its about honour at the end of the day (growing a pair etc). Thats probably why I have never achieved such heights as these 2 people. But pretty sure I would always rather be in a position to speak my mind on issues central to me (to my core), who I am and what Im all about. Big business (and international commerce) dominates all sports these days
      So where sits a sense of belonging, sense of place, standing up for what you believe in. The coming vote is focussed on Scotland  – the Identity v Britian the imposition.
      If you genuinely are a private person and do not wish to say which way you vote, or intend to vote, (fine), but unlike Hoy don’t then go on to step right in it, by trying to be so clever & calculated by saying, as a sportsman “you have to move to England to get on in the world” (?)  No other countries out there (likes of Graeme Obree ?) Hoy’s man very influenced by his circumstances and his success, understandable, but if you want to stay out of limelight – then dissappear and shut up surely. Hoy will come out for No, of that Im sure.
      Andrew Murray has evolved into an internationalist and Im pretty sure he will come out for the side which gives him the notional ‘best of both words’ in his circumstances and is his easier commercial option.
      If this is not the case and they are passionate people who care about Scotlands identity then why not shout it from the rooftops, (methinks its the money).
      If Im wrong I will be delighted to eat my words on this, its purely a gut feeling after all. I like you would like to see the true posturing occuring right now not at the last minute. Scotlands hour of need is right now.
      Where are the great poets (Alan Bissett excluded), International musicians & bands, artists (National collective excluded), Academics, Historians & Professionals who care about our future? Where is the ground breaking inspirational material on this subject.
      Why are works of art, ballads and songs about our future not being produced and circulated right now to support this cause. Too many are swithering to see which way the vote is going to go and thats regrettable.
      Its also regrettable (and I know Rev has covered this) that outlets such as NewsNetScotland are having to cancel ideas and innitiatives as they are unlikely to hit their £40,000 target. Are there really no interested benefactors who could assist with this kind of sum ? I know the punters like us are being squeezed a this time – but BT must be having a right laugh at this fact.
      They have only hit £12,500 of a an admittedly ambitious target with 5 days to go and they had some great ideas they were trying to roll out.
      Time for the YES big guns to start emerging, the ground troops need a ‘tonic’ as the big State controlled TV and Unionist machine is relentless.
      Just to balance the Daily Mail crap here’s something quite supportive from a smaller English paper.

    54. Bertie K says:

      Here here Jeremy Guise and the plymouth herald

    55. Les Wilson says:

      Best is the Unionists call false fury that THEY might be subject to immigrants coming from Scotland if we are Independent ! Huh !

      I am pretty certain it will be the other way around !

    56. Lewy Tee Bee says:

      I’ve produced some artwork regarding the indyref that National Collective said they would share on their Facebook page but never did, believe me I’ve put my artwork “out there” for all on the streets to see cough cough 😉

      Edited to add

    57. Dorothy Devine says:

      Thanks for the explanation Dougthedug . Only shares I ever had came to me accidently via Bradford and Bingley and little good they did me!
      Gordoz , good article  – thanks.

    58. a supporter says:

      Dorothy Devine

      Daily Hate Mail is third largest circ with about 103,000 pd and falling 6% pa in Dailies and fourth if Sundays included. Wings far exceeds it in readership! Apparently it’s bought and read by a large number of women who like its gossipy female pages. But looking at its comments section it is also read by male right wing nutters too.

      My wife gets it even though she is a YES supporter. I keep slagging it off to her with no avail. But like sneddon I do like the TV page on saturdays.

      I would love to see Wings having a real go at the Hate Mail and its writers.

    59. gordoz says:

      @Dorothy Devine – 
      apologies thats the last of 2013 rants over – bring on 2014 can’t wait

    60. Iain Henderson says:

      Might this not be a great visionary article by the mail? Dig a pair of big trenches between Scotland and England and between Wales and England? Thereby providing commercially viable shipping lanes, tidal power at the mouths and hydro power on the slopes. The Scottish (south facing) slope could become invaluable for the production of various crops not currently viable in Scotland, and of course the spoil could be used to improve coastal defences in Eastern England. Brilliant!!!

    61. David Smith says:

      Well if you’re going to do that, use the River Eden  at Carlisle as your western boundary. I’m currently just north of it and I’ll be on tbe right side then! 🙂

    62. Juteman says:

      As England is sinking due to the rebound effect of the last ice age, there may be some truth in their story.

    63. gordoz says:

      From the ‘New York Times’ 25/12/13
      Here’s a viewpoint from the US – love how they quote local ‘Labour official’ and mention Alex Salmond a few times, but don’t take the time to contact him or any Scottish Government official.
      Dont know what to make of it personally (seems status quo biassed overall)- hardly up to speed, but at least some notice is being taken.

    64. Malc says:

      That NY Times article is jsut about as much as you could expect from Americans,  just bollocks.

    65. Rough Bounds. says:

      The Daily Mail is a journalistic rag and everyone with a grain of intelligence knows that.
      But rags have their uses. The Mail is highlighting a problem that too many people are choosing to ignore. England is terribly overcrowded and it’s going to get worse. Their society and culture is teetering on a precipice.
      Scotland is not overcrowded and this will not have escaped the notice of several people in England.
      Has anyone heard of the word ‘Lebensraum’?
      The words sand and ostriches spring to mind regarding some of you.

    66. joe kane says:

      As a major island country, when was the last time an Englishman won the Wimbledon singles men title? That’s what they get for letting foreigners in. If they got rid of them all what a spectacle English football would become for instance, as well as other sporting events like Wimbledon. Bloody foreigners! Coming over here and making sports exciting to watch.

      The match commentators on the ITV4 Bundesliga Football Highlights programme were recently referring to a German domestic team as the only one without a win in any of “Europe’s five major league” top divisions. This seems to be some kind of re-imagining of England/UK’s place in the world.

    67. Andy-B says:

      Apparently Malta is Europes most densely populated country, with 1,265 inhabitants per square kilometre

    68. Juteman says:

      @Rough Bounds.
      “Some of you?”
      Are you not one of us?

    69. Hetty says:

      Looks like Johnston press have been saved for now by ‘lenders’. Rothschilds apparently advising the ‘refinancing’, but no word on bbc about who the lenders are. Would this be a case of FOI? They are also moving out of their Edinburgh headquarters, but it doesn’t say where to. 

    70. Doug Daniel says:

      @Rough Bounds “Has anyone heard of the word ‘Lebensraum’?”
      Yes, it was one of the reasons used by the Nazis for persecuting Jews, so it’s not exactly the sort of thing any sensible person would be trying to push as an ideology to follow. Any more dodgy pearls of wisdom?

    71. Andy-B says:

      @Rough Bounds
      Lebensraum you say!
      Where was your lebensraum when it came to the south spreading the wealth, yes ostrich and sand does spring to mind.
      As for England teetering on a precipice the English people have given their government too much lebensraum (Space of life) to cause such strife in their society.

    72. David says:

      According to this article, England is a “country”. So if our friends in the south are a country, then I assume that Scotland is also a country. Thanks, Daily Mail, for clearing that point up for us! 

    73. Doug Daniel says:

      Oh wait a sec, having re-read the “Lebensraum” comment properly, I see Rough Bounds is implying English folk will be looking towards Scotland as a way of creating “Lebensraum” for themselves. A modern day Highland Clearances presumably.
      So rather than implying that Daily Mail hysteria is somehow warranted, we’re accusing folk in England of being Nazis. How nice. But hey, those Britnats accusing the SNP of being Nazis are terrible, eh? Wouldn’t catch any of us stooping that low…

    74. Derek says:

      In Chris Hoy’s defence, until recently the only velodromes in Scotland were the outdoor ones at Meadowband and Caird Park. With the new covered velodrome in Glasgow there’ll be more local rider development going on.

    75. David says:

      Not sure why a Eurosceptic paper like the Daily Mail is using population density figures based on people per square (cheese-eating surrender monkey) kilometre, instead of per (Rule Brittania) square mile. Surely they have missed a trick here: they could have changed the figures from a cramped & crowded 419 per square km to a spacious & leisurely 162 per square John Bull mile. Much more room in Imperial England!  

    76. Holebender says:

      A square mile is (about 2 1/2 times) bigger than a square kilometer so how do you come up with a smaller density figure? I think you’ve applied the conversion backwards.

    77. Chic McGregor says:

      As pointed out a couple of times before here and many times elsewhere IF the criterion for overpopulation is ONLY the ability to feed yourself then England is overpopulated.  It net imports around half the food and drink it consumes.  It could comfortably support a population of around 25 million.
      In money terms this amounts to about 25 billion in annual trade deficit.  i.e. a grocery bill that needs to be paid before anything else can be paid off.  It represents, in very real money terms, a very large inbuilt grocery bill.  This hardly ever gets any mention or analysis in the media.
      Scotland, OTOH could comfortably support up to around 8 million.
      However, as long as normal international trade continues and England is able to earn the money required in other ways, then that is not a problem.   But if this is disrupted then it will be a different story.  In the second World War, Britain was, with rationing, just about able to survive without serious famine.  If a similar situation arose we can fairly safely assume that an independent Scotland, like ‘neutral’ Ireland did and would presumably also do again, would ensure any surplus they had would go to England, but the problem is the population there is significantly greater than it was then.
      Not that there is any such similar situation in the offing and even if there was the population size problem would probably disappear very quickly.
      The main problem is the size of the net annual grocery bill that needs to be paid for even if England got back to a sustainable borrowing figure, which it is not at at the moment.
      i.e. to ‘pay its way’ it has this large inbuilt deficit to deal with.
      In that most basic context, it is overpopulated.  
      The first problem is that the ruling elite of Britain/England (Bringland?) seem to have some deep seated need to be ‘one of the big boys’ on the European stage, which in their mind requires a population of 60million +.  They would not be happy simply providing a nice fair country for its citizens where most could reach  something like their full potential with good quality educational, health, welfare and justice standards.
      Secondly, even if they ever did decide Britain was just physically too small and settled instead for dropping the delusions of grandeur and just basically doing a good job for a sustainable population not reliant on continued international arrangements (which seem ever more precarious, especially in the financial services sector), how could that be achieved?
      I can’t think of any way to address that problem quickly which would be acceptable.
      Certainly, the 3 million or so that Scotland could potentially absorb, even if most of those were from South of the Border and not returning Scottish diaspora, would only be a drop in the Ocean.
      They could perhaps instigate population reduction measures with some form of family size reduction incentives, like China (which has about 1/3 of the population density of England) but to do so without aggravating the productive to non-productive citizen demographic even more than increasing life expectancy already is would require a very, very long time-scale for that to work.

    78. heres_johnny says:

      @doug daniel – nobody is saying english people are nazis. what we do have is a right wing government in charge who are persecuting the working class/unemployed and the disabled. lots of children just spent christmas at a food bank in the uk. they are also taking up all the wealth(even more than they had). IDS went to germany to study their methods, i think he went to the wrong time period.

      the tories might not be directly killing people but they ARE killing people in a sleekit way(those ATOS figures).

      there is not a huge difference as far as im concerned, one death is too many. if they are allowed to continue things will only get worse.

    79. Ken500 says:

      In most (Europe) industrialised democracy (without immigration) the population are falling. (The Pill, (1960’s) affordable contraception and choice). Populations in Russia, China have gone down. Stabilised in US. (gone up slightly). When other countries can afford better healthcare systems, the populations will stabilise or decline.

      Food waste in the UK is avoidable.

      Immigration to the UK was part of the Empire (duel passports) and UK foreign policies – destabilising other parts of the world for economic gain. Ie illegal wars. The world’s population will peak than decline. Eg in the UK – the ‘baby boomers’ A peak and then fall.

      The only way to halt immigration is to help other countries get better off (EU) and a decline in poverty and deprivation. The immigration scare is a myth. People migrate to get enough food.

    80. Ken500 says:

      # then decline

    81. Ken500 says:

      Right wing tax evading media group/owners, peddle the immigration myth, so they can tax evade. They want no change in a system from which they have most to gain. Migration is the history of the world. People got better off because of healthcare/education. That is why healthcare/education are so important, and should be protected by taxation. Scotland influenced the world by free (church) tertiary education.

    82. Ken500 says:

      Nearly very country in the world now has an immigration policy, as would Scotland. There are as many Scots living and working abroad as there are immigrants in Scotland 10%. The same as the rest of the UK. 10%. Germany has 20% immigrant workers and still has a better mire balanced economy. Many smaller countries have better more balanced economies. It isn’t population size that matters it is economic policies.

      The right wing tax evaders/media groups collude with a system from which they have most to gain, stirring up racial hatred.

    83. Sandy Milne says:

      There is more than a grain of truth to this story unfortunately the Daily Mail’s motive for printing it has more to do with EU immigration rather than a statement of fact. 
      There is no question that the UK and especially England has a high population density and a re-distribution of that population is required. An independent Scotland will help with this problem. An additional 3-5 million can be accommodated in Scotland with no detrimental effect on the countryside. This will help with the growth needed in an independent Scotland and reduce the cost for rUK. The catalyst required to make this happen is a YES vote next year.

    84. Juteman says:

      You’ll have to try a bit harder than that Sandy. Too obvious. 🙂

    85. Sandy Milne says:

      OK Juteman care to let us all know how you intend to vote next year? I’ve declared my YES vote but what is yours?

    86. Juteman says:

      You think that suggesting 3-5 million folk will be imported from down south will help to get a Yes vote?
      Pull the other one.

    87. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      And both of mine

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