Blown away
“Gobsmacked” doesn’t begin to cover it. On February 6th we launched a fundraising appeal to see if Wings Over Scotland’s readers valued it enough to make it a full-time professional enterprise. Giving ourselves 48 days to raise just under £30,000 (we chose the deadline as the symbolic 25th March, the day of adjournment of the old Scottish Parliament in 1707), we sat and watched in astonishment as donations flooded in, bringing us a staggering 28% of our goal in the first EIGHT HOURS.
With such crowdfunding projects the first day obviously tends to be one of the most successful, as the most dedicated readers jump in with contributions, but even so we were simply bowled over by the extent of the phenomenon. We were quietly hoping we might sneak into four figures in the opening 24 hours. In fact we passed £10,000.
It should go without saying that we can barely express the magnitude of our gratitude for both the money and the flood of heartwarming comments and tweets that came with it. We’re struggling for words to convey it. But for all the jaw-dropping magnificence of the response the job is still only partly done, so we’re afraid you’re going to have to look at that crudely-fashioned fundraising banner for a wee while yet.
This post will be pinned at the top of the front page for the duration of the project, and the image link will likely feature in every article until the deadline – if you’ve already donated, then (a) thank you very, very much, and (b) please just try to ignore it.
Everyone else should note that the first day’s incredible results came from just one in every 30 people who read the post making a donation. If you’re one of the other 29, beware – we’re coming for your wallet… 😀
Rev,
Is your percentage take from Café Press worthwhile?
D
I’ll donate after payday 🙂 . You still play games at all stu?
I’ve donated becuase I think you do a great job on fact checking, analysis, and original interpretation. And because although you take the positive side of the Independence issue, as I do, you don’t shirk adressing all sides of an argument.
It takes time.
If you’re too busy writing at the pace of the news cycle, it is something that is almost impossible to do as a sole operator or as a small group. I’m hoping that you get (a lot) more donations and that it allows you also to keep working away at that research-analysis angle that you do so well.
Great opening day total! The response is a measure of how important this site is to readers. It’s also a comment on the Scottish and wider UK media, who are not offering what a lot of readers want. No wonder their circulations are going down. But of course it’s also about the referendum next year and having decent information and analysis in the run up to that. So well done, Rev. Stu!
“Is your percentage take from Café Press worthwhile?”
It’s not too bad. Certainly doesn’t hurt 🙂
“You still play games at all stu?”
Yeah, though almost entirely on my iPhone now.
Away on biz this week but will do something constructive when I get back….
Of course, this means you’re going to have to be nice to us all now. No more Rev Grumpy …
Now don’t blow all this pocket money on computer games and Iron Bru!
“On the spur” I’ve signed up for the £2 pm. On reflection a very small sum.I will commit monthly upwards, Paypal permitting.
To succeed a business needs cashflow. A £30,000 lumpsum will disappear like snae aff a dyke. Best regard it as a comfort zone. A business needs assured cashflow to plan and prosper.
A £2 per month committment from each of your 30,000 readers and you’ve cracked it as regards cashflow.
And we get clear, truthful news and analysis. Seems like a bargain to me.
Hands up those who like bargains.
Hands up those who aren’t bothered about Wings prospering and would rather keep £2 per month in their pockets.
That is the choice facing us all.
Rev,
Thx, I’ll invest in a few things to annoy folk in London & Helensburgh!
D
Just got up after a very late night getting back from Pittodrie so you caught me in a good mood. Delighted to have bunged a few quid in. Hope everyone is using one of the share buttons on the final page to spread the word on their timelines, etc. 🙂
“Of course, this means you’re going to have to be nice to us all now. No more Rev Grumpy …”
You’d think… 😀
I donated because I too am fed up with the unionist media. Okay there are a few single voices out there who are permitted to write on the pros of Scottish independence, but they are few and far between.
Not only are you well researched, but you challenge the lies which we are immersed in daily here in Scotland/Britain.
So thank you. I see there are many of us who truly appreciate this site.
“I’ve donated becuase I think you do a great job on fact checking, analysis, and original interpretation. And because although you take the positive side of the Independence issue, as I do, you don’t shirk adressing all sides of an argument.
It takes time.
If you’re too busy writing at the pace of the news cycle, it is something that is almost impossible to do as a sole operator or as a small group. I’m hoping that you get (a lot) more donations and that it allows you also to keep working away at that research-analysis angle that you do so well. “
No point me re-inventing the wheel so i just quoted orpheuslyre
I note that the total is already over £9,000, if we add in the extra £600 from the off-piste donations. There’s still five hours to go before the 24 hour mark is reached. I’m hoping Stu will break five figures before then.
Ooooh, it really is Never Seconds all over again!
Rev, I donated via Paypal (grrrr). Good luck and and thanks for so much so far.
Now, don’t be going and buying hunners of sweets unless you’re going to share them
I dont’t know where you get the time. Donation made. Far better value than the BBC.
Donation on its way to you…well worth it for giving us a voice against the propaganda machines.
I will donate as soon as I can Rev.
A truly worthy cause.
It’s really encouraging to see so many people are clamouring for the kind of no-nonsense reporting so lacking elsewhere in the media and your always entertaining demolishing of the hopelessly biased spin that the other so called ‘journalists’ and media should be ashamed of.
Just made my donation, keep up the good work.
I think Craig and Frankieboy may have something there you know.
Hunners of sweets, games and a bottle or two of bru. When’s the party Rev?
Payday next week and something a wee bit more than yesterdays token support will be wingin’ its way to indiegogo.
Donated and would like to say thanks to you
Was happy to donate – a small price to pay for such an excellent read!
I suggest that whatever your original donation, everyone gives an additional one pound in the name of Grahamski. It would nice for him if he could see that the campaign raised the target £30,000 – and then an additional £30,000 in his name. I’ve already sent my extra pound. Say thanks to Grahamski, Rev.
On Topic…”Blown Away” Just been watching the FM do the same to the usual suspects at FMQ. He must get really bored having to deal with such weak opposition every Thursday. Viewers must question the intellect of these london scripted puppets.
Wings is helping my better-half and I stay sane & properly informed in the face of unionist media manipulations and madness – please keep going!
A few of your earth pounds shunted your way Rev 🙂
That is the fund well over £9,000. Ye-ha.
My degree in politics had left me almost apathetic about politics in general and in the west of Scotland in particular. I know so many people who vote for the monkey with the red rosette it is unbelievable.
This has done a complete 360 in the last two years, even registering for postal votes in council elections because I knew I would be away.
As almost a complete lurker on this site, having posted twice, I felt I had too contribute to something. I read this blog daily and contrasted against other media it has cemented my own opinions on what will probably be the most important decision in my lifetime.
Keep up the good work Rev Stu.
I’ll chip in an additional £1 for each day Grahamski posts on WoS up until the remaining 47 days are over. This is an inclusive campaign and it’d be good to help make Grahamski feel he’s part of it.
So for yesterday and today, that’s another couple of bucks for the kitty already.
If you are paying for a TV license you are funding the [ Bitter together mob ] !!!!!!
I just noticed that if you add in the £600 Stu said has also come in from people donating off-system, the total is already over £10,000. Still only 22 hours from the off.
I made a donation yesterday and will be doing so again when finances permit. Keep up the good work.
I have posted this on my Facebook page and sent my Paypal donation. Keep up the good work!
£9,548 !! wow, nearly at 5 figures in 24 hours! Well done Rev Stu. This feels like something we’ll be looking back on in a few years time as a turning point. Getting paper copies out to undecideds will make a noticable increase in Yes voters IMO.
My only concern is that with a regular even higher output from wings that the number of hours spent reading it and commenting when we should be working will knacker the Scottish economy but if it means we get the Yes vote I’m sure our productivity will more than bounce back 🙂
Nice of you to call me ‘dedicated’ Stu.
I may continue to donate as your Blog is the best around at the moment.
I visit here more than once a day. Even though times are tight, I believe it is only right to pay for what you use. What you are doing is vital and if our support allows you to continue doing it, then I very happy to contribute. Good luck with the funding!
Stewart
I’ve just had a look at your website and I must say that I am very impressed.
I’m glad, too, that you have been inspired by the Independence debate and how it could be a new dawn for all of us.
http://stewartbremner.co.uk/gallery/elegyfortheendofanempire/
I take it that your paintings are for sale?
Rev ‘ Thats my donation in . is there any way that i can set something up with my bank to donate £5 a month up to the referendum .
Keep up the good work ‘ W.O.S is the best site in town .
Together we can do it in 2014 .
£9765 in one day, 47 days to go – I make that nearly £460,000!!! How many journalists will that pay for?
Just one pont – what is to stop you raising all this money and then converting to one of the Bitters? We’d have paid to read more BritNat guff! 🙂
The fact you are over 10k already (including the 600), speak volumes about just how utterly useless, the MSM (especially the BBC) are in covering the referendum fairly, free of blatant pro Britannia bias.
done
keep up the good work
Inspired by those donating on behalf of Grahamski. Might I suggest some donations are also made in the name of the following Yes campaign assets Cllr Terry Kelly, Ian Smart, Johann Lamont and Ian Davidson.
“‘ Thats my donation in . is there any way that i can set something up with my bank to donate £5 a month up to the referendum .”
If you drop me a line via the contact form I can give you bank details that should enable such a thing. And thanks!
I’ve just noticed what comes up on the mouseover, for the tacky banner!
Hi Rev
Sent a cheque today no much, but better for us than them. !
Well done, you’re over the £10 000 mark now on the indiegogo option
Well spotted Albalha. You beat me by a minute. I’ve been watching for that for ages ya radge! 😉
Dear Rev.I sent you a long coment.I am willing to do political caricatures…bitter wans for free, but I made a wee mistake.I sent you £4 via Pay Pal, but I want to send at least that by standing order or direct debit every month. How no?Please advise how I cna do this?
@richie
I struck at the lucky moment, well done to R Kerr for going for it and getting it over the first five figure hurdle, only two to go, sort of, sure there are still many more to contribute
“Might I suggest some donations are also made in the name of the following Yes campaign assets Cllr Terry Kelly, Ian Smart, Johann Lamont and Ian Davidson. ”
Yup. No point if it isn’t fun.
“If I can’t dance, I don’t want to be part of your revolution.” (Emma Goldman)
..and upon the subject of dance…
Yay!
Over £10,000 now!
WoS has replaced NNS as my first port of call, thanks to the excellent articles and the lively BTL. Happy to forego a few pints to support this effort to get real information out there, despite the MSM.
Let’s hope more and more people get to know about WoS, take a peek and start asking questions of themselves, then the YES campaign and the NO campaign (though the NO campaign probably won’t answer…), thinking about things… Figuring it out for themselves and arriving at the only sane conclusion: Scotland should be an independent country, a modern medium-sized democracy not tied down to the dead weight of a former “world power” which still has delusions of grandeur and increasingly exists to benefit the few at the expense of the many.
I’d like to add that one of the reasons I like WoS so much is the spark of good-natured humour and general goodwill that seems to hover over the site. Well done, Rev, all other contributors and commenters! 😀
Quite a lot of people have been asking about recurring donations. I’ve now added a new multi-option subscription button to the Donate page:
http://wingsland.podgamer.com/donate/
where anyone so inclined can send £2, £5, £10, £25 or (aye, right) £50 a month.
After a few glitches ive just palmed your hand with silver. Job done. Its great to see how everyone has pulled together with this. It fills you with hope. Its a donation ive made and aim to do it on a regular basis.
All this got me to thinking ( i know that can be dangerous!) but there is 30,000 people visiting this site and there is an Independence march/rally coming up later this year….yeh i think you know where im going with this! Imagine as a bottom line having at least 30,000 attend! Anything is possible if we all make the effort and after last years fantastic rally i had the pleasure to be on, imagine the spinning that would ensue from the Nasaying Unionists!
Now given WOS is about the MSM what I’m about to say, I reckon is not really off topic. As has been pointed elsewhere on the site Question Time from Stirling tonight will not be pleasant.
We’ve had the Westminster Gay Marriage vote this week, so the panel includes Brian Souter, and why it’s an SNP MSP and not an SNP MP I don’t know …… given all the others are MPs. I’d rather have Hosie or Angus MacNeil who could talk directly to their not voting in the debate and point out 7 Scottish Labour MPs voted against.
@EdinScot
I would prefer it if they moved the route of the march in September as I think there will be to many people there this year. With around a year to go before the referendum, more publicity etc I think there could be significantly more people attending. Maybe go from Carlton hill to the Meadows this time.
@Albalha
Is Stewart Hosie back after his minor stroke? I think they probably want to give Humza Yousaf more experience on TV.
@Muttley 79
Fair point re S Hosie but there are other SNP MPs I just don’t think an MSP is the best choice, we’ll see. As for TV exposure how often does QT come to Scotland, of course I’ve no idea how the bidding process for those on the panel plays out.
Rev, I remember yesterday somebody asked in the comments about donating the money you have received through the normal channels to the fund, but unfortunately as you said that would mean paying 4% or 9% comission on that money donated. So, I’ve took this to be a wee maths problem as there must be a point where it makes financial sense to donate the money from regular site donations to the ig fund:
So, first equation is the current total of cash in ig, plus the amount you donate to reach the ig total you are seeking i.e.
Current Donation Total + Amount you Donate = £Goal, or
x + y = 29,796 (equation i)
where x = current total on ig and y = the amount required to reach the target.
Now to represent the break even point for y I get the following equation:
4% of current total (x) + 4% of amount to donate (y) = 9% of current total (x), in otherwords the break even point), or:
0.04x + 0.04y = 0.09x
Simplifying:
x = 0.8y (equation ii)
Now, substituting 0.8y for x (equation ii) into equation i, gives us:
0.8y + y = 29,796
Now, solving for y,
1.8y = 29,796
y = 29,796/1.8 = 16,553
So, at the break even point, y the amount to donate = £16,553, and x, the current donation total when this sum is donated = 29,796 – 16,553 = £13,243.
In other words, if you raise £13,243 you pay £1,191.87 commission (9%), but instead if you had and could donate £16,553 of money from other channels you will pay 4% comission on it or £662.12 but, you would save 5% of the commission on £13,243, or £662.15, this makes you a whole 3p better off!!
The maximum saving of course is if the donation total is at £29,795, if you donate 1p you pay 0.04p extra comission, but you save 5% comission on £29,795 or in other words you are £1,489.75 better off. Obviously this would only make financial sense if the target is not reached and you have very little time left. Hopefully there arent any mistakes above ^ but I’m an engineer not a mathematician! 🙂
Donation soon be on its way ..!
Has anyone else noticed the amount of new names who have broken cover to declare themselves and donate???
pmcrek I love the way engineers minds work, my brother’s studying mechanical engineering and spends hours figuring out ridiculously complicated obscure things just because he can’t not know. Guess that’s why we’re so famous for invention.
Fair play to your calculations, I didn’t even try to keep up with you there.
Well done on hitting 10,000 Rev Stu 🙂
pmcrek: Heh. I hadn’t done all the sums, but was indeed keenly aware that near the end if we’re close to the goal a timely donation to get over the line could be +EV, as we say in poker. Thanks for figuring out where the lines are 🙂
pmcrek you’re quite right, but you made life more difficult for yourself than you needed to; the calculation is simply 29796 * (0.04 / 0.09)
This is because you need to work out how much commission would be paid if you make it up to the target: this is 29796 * 0.04. This gives you essentially the smallest amount of commission that can be due if the necessary limit is reached. (i.e. the point at which it is better to put more in to reduce the commission) And to find out what that limit is, you divide by 0.09 to see what sum you would have to pay 9% on, to be paying that much commission.
@Seasick Dave
Thank you very much Dave. Painting is very important to me and I really wanted to make some that reflected how I feel about the independence ‘debate’, as well as my hopes for the futures. And yes, they’re for sale!
@Rev Stu
I shared your fundraiser on Facebook. A friend wrote “Looks too much like a Parteiadler.” Was that intentional?!
@pmcrek
Love your maths! 😀
Could even follow it all, although it’s nearly 25 years since I took my maths higher (a respectable B), and haven’t really used maths since (apart from the everyday kind: how much is 35% off at the sales, converting miles to km etc.)
Let’s make it simple for Rev. If he gets over the target he won’t have to apply your equations and formulas. 😀
Matt
Typical engineer, making life difficult for myself! 😉
Which reminds me, I am currently considering starting a UnionistsForIndependence group… no seriously, the only way to preserve the union, vote for indy and join an expanded British Irish council. Opt-in/out Federalism without waiting decades for the UK to catch up…
“A friend wrote “Looks too much like a Parteiadler.” Was that intentional?!”
Heh. The original version looked like this:
http://wingsland.podgamer.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/wingsquida.jpg
before a wee warning buzzer went off in my head and I went and found the very thing you mention, so I separated the two parts out to reduce the similarity.
I would prefer it if they moved the route of the march in September as I think there will be to many people there this year. With around a year to go before the referendum, more publicity etc I think there could be significantly more people attending. Maybe go from Carlton hill to the Meadows this time.
Yeah that would make sense Mutley for the reasons you give or even what about from the Meadows along George IV Bridge down the High Street to have the rally in Holyrood Park bang next to the Scottish Parliament. Wouldnt that be apt and what a statement that would make in that we demand the return of full powers to a Scottish Parliament. A country not a region as my banner stated from the last march/rally.
Hi Rev,
Well done. I’m pleased for you and the guys there. You’ve done a great job.
Kerry Gill tweets that there is no Nationalist paper. On that, he is right, and it is true, but personally speaking, to me …this site is a Nationalist Paper. I read no other site. I get all the info I will ever need …right here. You boys are top notch when it comes to telling the people the ‘truth’ …the ‘real truth’
…unlike Mr Gill who is only interested in pandering to what he believes is still the main population, when in fact,when you add the die-hard Nationalists with those who believe in Devo-Max option, then the minority is really …the ‘No’ camp. That is Mr Gill’s mistake in his circulation thinking …he is pandering to just under 30,000 people. His circulation is going down, Rev, and your’s is going up!!!
Somehow …if there was a way to get this site out there, and into the minds of the public conscience, then the only way seems to be verbally. We are all doing that. I talk about ‘Wings’ at work all the time, so my colleagues (Nationalist and Unionist) all know what ‘Wings’ is …and that is the point. It is getting out there, Rev …even my Unionist Colleagues know what ‘Wings’ is.
And I think that’s all we can do at the moment …mention this site verbally to anyone and everyone. The only other option is to have Mr Salmond wear a ‘Wings’ t-shirt at First Minister’s questions, and advertise that way!!! (I’m kidding by the way! – though I do believe I could see Johann asking in her first question of the day as to …what is ‘Wings’ First Minister? !!)
Anyway, well done Rev. I just hope that we do succeed when the day of the Referendum comes, and if we do …then this site will have played its part in it.
Keep believing, and keep going. We are all right behind you …all the way!!!
The Guardian churning out more Vote No propaganda with an article from… Brian Wilson. Yes, THAT Brian Wilson!!
It really is quite an incredible article – and not for any good reasons.
It’s there waiting for you to give it the kicking that it rightly deserves!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/feb/07/scottish-nationalists-bread-and-circuses
And oh aye…donated my donation a wee while ago before my last post.
Rev, let us all know, now and again if you need more funds. I’m sure we will all throw more money your way.
All the best !!
Re two entirely different posts earlier this evening …
The ‘march later this year’ … what march, where? I missed the last one an’ a’. So, for those old farts like myself not up to our eyeballs in books with faces and things that go ‘tweet’ – can anybody tell me how, where and by whom these things are organised and advertised?
Tonight’s QT … oh dear. Humza Yousaf was a lightweight pushover the last time I saw him on telly. Between Dimbleby’s usual sneering disdain for anything Scottish and them deliberately dragging out the old queer-basher Souter, I can see a right old BBC anti-independence stitch up. I, for one, won’t bother watching and annoying myself so much I won’t be able to sleep tonight.
Given that I’ve just re-mortgaged the house to keep the Rev Stu in Cuban cigars for the next couple of years, perhaps he would be good enough to watch it for me and give me a précis of only the good bits tomorrow …?
Vronsky says:
7 February, 2013 at 12:37 pm
I suggest that whatever your original donation, everyone gives an additional one pound in the name of Grahamski. It would nice for him if he could see that the campaign raised the target £30,000 – and then an additional £30,000 in his name. I’ve already sent my extra pound. Say thanks to Grahamski, Rev.
That was worth an extra punt, just for the laugh I got there (will have to wait to nect week though, am skint)
Odd. I can post, but not aaaaaaargh…
@Freddie Threepwood
There was a independence march last September in Edinburgh. Started at the Meadows, and finished at the bandstand in Princes Street Gardens. Speeches by Alex Salmond, Dennis Cannavan, Patrick Harvie, Margo MacDonald, Ruth Wishart etc. Labour Voters for Independence were there and Allan Grogan gave a speech. Can’t remember who organised it. Media said 5,000 were there, people that were on the march said about 10,000. There is going to be another one in September.
@EdinScot
Yes, I like your route. Only problem I could see with it is if the forecast was bad, might make speeches in Holyrood Park difficult?
Donated because I could no longer find a newspaper that came anywhere near being as honest and objective as Wings. Thank you and may to donations continue to flood in!
I can’t post the wonderful and wise essay I had written about – oh – everything.
Someone watching from a clifftop saw an old man far below draw in the sand with his walking stick. He suddenly realised he was watching Picasso, and wondered if he had time to hurry home and get his camera. Instead he lay in the grass, cupping his chin on his hand, and watched the incoming tide erase the art.
Last attempt, but I’m bored with it myself now, and clicking ‘submit’ is just technical curiosity
Grahamski has no opinion on anything, it is a gadget tasked with broadcasting an agenda. It isn’t possible to engage with Grahamski: it is automaton, a simulacrum of intelligence. Grahamski fails the Turing Test – its behaviours are indistinguishable from those of a machine.
It is Rev Stu’s noble hope that unionists will come along here and talk to separatists, and perhaps we all might begin, even a little, to understand each other. But the Grahamski machine shuts everybody out – who could possibly feel comfortable finding themselves on the same side as a little android whose operating system consists of a few dozen lines of code? So unionists, assert your humanity and join the conversation, you will be made welcome. And as has been suggested, give Rev Stu a pound every time the android appears – there are some jokes I hope we can share.
Donation sent -given up on the foul press and the BBC!
That’s another tenner donated by Grahamski. He might be a trolling dick but his heart’s in the right place 🙂
@Rev Stu.
I tried to subscribe but the button doesn’t do anything. Tried it with 2 different browsers and nothing happens. Am I fucking it up again?
I donated last night but have been so angry with Question Time from Stirling tonight that I had to do it again tonight. Enough is enough – please continue with your efforts, we cannot afford to fail!
“I tried to subscribe but the button doesn’t do anything. Tried it with 2 different browsers and nothing happens. Am I fucking it up again?”
Nope, that was me. Should work now, ta for the alert.
Rev, I don’t know how it works but is there not income to be made with pay per click advertising on popular websites where the host site gets a cut. I am also positive that it would be possible to find a commission only telesales person to sell reasonably priced advertising space.
Adam Davidson (The artist formally know as Big Cheese)
@eva
What happened on Question Time?
@FreddieThreepwood
You asked about the Independence March & Rally. The web content for the 2012 March is no longer available on their site.However, here are the related events I wrote about: Independence March & Rally on my.mutterings The dates of the 2013 and 2014 events have already been confirmed. Location TBA as Princes Street Gardens will be too small for the hopefully even bigger crowd.
Here is an article about the 2012 March and Rev Stu’s article.
It was a fantastic experience. Not to be missed in 2013 and 2014!
@ Eva
Oh no … sounds like I was right to give it a body swerve!
Question time was a shambolic,disincongruous mess.It felt as though little England had been transplanted into Central Scotland,people,attitude,current affairs and all.
Donation Sent
Thanks for the fresh air in the smog of the MSM.
QT left me feeling that if that’s the best case we can make for the future of Scotland, then we may as well give up now. I really expected better statements from both YH and BS. The audience didn’t help. Just total confused waffle, when simple direct responses were needed. I’m worried.
Worth every penny and more. A great pleasure to do my bit!
@Muttley79 and mutterings – thanks. I shall make sure I am there.
Re QT thank f**k I didn’t watch it (apparently). I would dearly like to make my point again about how the Yes/SNP campaign needs to put success in 2014 over considerations like giving everyone a fair crack of the whip … but since I didn’t actually watch the programme, I can’t.
But, oh … I want to.
@ Ron – I agree up to a point. Brian Soutar is no politician, but I thought he spoke fron the heart, spoke in the language of ordinary people and hit a good balance between social justice and enterprise. Humza Yousaf disappointed me, I really thought he was one for the future. He answered almost every question with the word “look” and failed to nail the question on the 23% support for independence in the social attitudes survey: Which should have been a straightforward task, given much of it was polled during last years Britfest and the questioning was skewed.
I think the programme highlighted the enormity of the task before us. There are many, many folk out there to convince. Unfortunately, at the moment, I am not convinced that we are winning the argument. The no campaign have no argument for the union, but the emotional appeal is strong and the fear great. We must up our game if we are to prevail.
P.S. Rev, as I have said before, sincere thanks for your work, donation ‘winging’ its way south at the weekend.
Took a bit of dicking about with PayPal, but that’s my contribution finally made. As Freddie Threepwood said earlier, I do not expect to see a grumpy Rev. again. 🙂
@ Bill C
Last night I got support for a citizen’s petition from Braco and Christian Wright. Earlier today, I asked if it would be a good idea to include the unionist’s refusal to comply with the EC (on the letter to the Electoral Commission thread). I didn’t get a response, so it looks like it will be up to us, if you are still up for it. I would much prefer if there were more WOS readers involved, particularly the Rev., but there you go.
Any opinions?
@RevStu
Nope, that was me. Should work now, ta for the alert.
Cheers. 30 odd cans of Tesco’s finest winging their way to Bath every month from now on.
BTW Stu, will we all get financial kickbacks when you become First Minister? 🙂
Cameron.
You write, I’ll sign it. As, I’m sure many others will.
Question Time,
Wasn’t great, but at the 26.40 minute mark, when Michael Moore asked would Scotland be better off independent, a good portion of the audience erupted, and shouted him down. What I also found interesting is that no one shouted ‘No’ or ‘Rubbish’ to the Nationalist supporters.
I think there is a further element of the population who may not be die-hard nationalists, but they do have a grievance against the Unionist parties. They did not say anything, but they didn’t back Moore either…
Don’t get me wrong, half the room clapped Moore, but a good portion didn’t. Certainly more than 23% of the audience were Nationalist!!
Question Time
Moore and Falconer are just coming out with the scare-mongering stories again. Not one question on what they would do for Scotland if it was a ‘No’ vote.
Question Time. – 41.21 mins
Disgrace. Hamza finally kicks into gear, and shoots down Mary MacLeod and Lord Falconer and their arguments. He is doing very well.
What happens next…Dimbleby wants to move onto the next question while Hamza is only halfway through his argument. There is defintely a BBC agenda against the SNP.
Question Time – 52.49 mins
I’m out of here. Hamza gives a fantastic view abour religion and gay marriage. Dimbleby harrasses him into trying to say or commit to something. Lord Falconer or MacLeod are not asked. This is a disgrace. Souter is also gets hammered into when he also makes a point, and a sensitive point at that about what do we teach children in schools. It is a touchy subject. Not one of the Unionist members are seriously questioned on the matter, but for Souter and Hamza, it is like the Spanish Inquisition!
Question Time – last 5 mins
Well, we now know why Souter was on it. He was there as a target for those who believe in gay marriage (for me, I’m not bothered about the issue, and that was the point souter makes; for most folk, the bedroom tax, unemployment, welfare changes, etc are more important than what happened in a vote in Westminster this week about gay marriage). In all the weeks and months, why is it that when a vote on gay marriage comes in, let’s get Brian Souter on – an SNP donator? It was a shark-attack and bear-baiting by the BBC.
Personally, Souter did well. I do agree with some of his points (what do we teach children at 12,13,14), but at no point, did Souter ever say …I don’t agree with Gay Marriage. All he is worried about is ‘What do we teach the kids at a tender age?’
Re QT More than 23% English questioners/answers ,I dont know the makeup of the population of Stirling.Also what does the recent mean to politcos,this poll is nine months old.Dimbledor interuptus is what this new game show should be called?
As I said yesterday afternoon, when someone posted the QT panel, it wasn’t going to be pretty. At the end of the day it is going out to a UK wide audience so those who want to secure a YES vote need to consider that when they are being asked to put up a speaker.
Brian Souter was obviously going to be seen as out of touch etc and putting up an SNP MSP, I don’t get it.
The YES campaign is not just about the SNP, Harvie would have been good, or Angus Macneill, or Blair Jenkins ……. the media can be controlled to some extent if parties, organisations, individuals refuse to play the game. It’s not about the studio audience, it’s about the viewers……the chance to point out 7 Labour MPs with Scottish seats made up a third of those who voted against the gay marriage bill, that SNP MPs on principle don’t vote etc ……..HY made an attempt to challenge some of the Falconer nonsense but didn’t really hit home.
It’s not so difficult all they have to say is …..Ah sorry xyz is not available to take part in QT but abc is ……the programme won’t go on air without an attempt, in this case, to inlclude pro-YES, Scottish based people.
Leaves a very bitter taste.
@JLT
I agree that Souter handled himself well given the reception he was likely to get and agree that there are far more important things in peoples everyday life and Hamza’s answer was well balanced, equality does cut both ways.
That said however, we can either teach children everyone is equal or they are not. As far as I can see it is that as black and white an issue. I think it is more a statement of the society we should be. Everyone is the same, no privilege and no discrimination except by your own actions in how you treat other.
Lets just get Phebe Buffay in with her singing guitar.
I tweeted it last night, but one of the first questions really irked me. It was made by a guy with a green t-shirt and glasses and was a faux attack on politicians in general. The man spoke as “the public” and called himself a small business owner.
Indeed, he was a small business owner but what he failed to say was that he was Grahame Reed, once libdem councillor for Stirling and failed in his bid to become a member of parliament for westminster at the last election. His question was asked to another Liberal Democrat politician, Michael Moore (they must know each other???) you’ll recognise him from his picture on the Libdem website: http://www.scotlibdems.org.uk/people/graham-reed
When you realise who he is; his party affiliation and who the question was targeted at; his question looks awfully strange and one could easily think it was an engineered plant. if it wasn’t, it looked like it.
i watched QT last night for the first time in many many weeks, and so further confirmation of why I stopped watching it.
Halfway or more into the program Dimbleby blurted a petted retort to Hamza whilst he was speaking, I would need to watch again on I player, something like “Don’t ….me”.
Panel assessment:
Mary MacLeod i seems to live sheltered live. Did her accent become more Scots as the program progressed?
Moore – a bag of wind.
Falconer – a facade of the benign retiree, to the H of Lords.
Hamza – Did well, youthful vigour and evenhandedness.
Soutar – Did well, spoke good level sense.
And yes, first question out of the bag. ” Concerned small businessman”.His background noted by Callum above.
Cameron – Pretty much up for anything that is legal. Not sure how a Citizen’s Petition would work i.e. who would it be addressed to, how would we collect signatures, are we talking an online petition? As I have said before, I think we need international monitors to ensure fair play in the media, especially the BBC. Just not sure how we go about it, but will certainly help in any way I can.
Some of you mentioned the march, i took part last year – it was a brilliant day out and i’d strongly encourage everyone who can to get along this year.
Organised by Jeff Duncan and Anne McMillan, who did a great job without any official support.
Web: http://www.independencerally.com/main/
FB page – https://www.facebook.com/groups/288342777946182/?fref=ts
@ Bill C
I will need to carry out a bit more research, but I was thinking of addressing it to the UK government, with copies to the EC, the EU, the UN and various other international observer bodies. Although it is the MSM in general that is the problem, I think the state broadcaster has to be the target. An on-line petition will probably be the most manageable and achieve the widest coverage. I am not sure if it would be possible and/or wise to use as many petition carriers as possible. Again, I need to do a bit of research. I’ll try to put forward an initial draft in the next few days. Hopefully this can then be developed further by the WOS readers.
@Cameron – Sounds good, although not sure it should be addressed to the UK Government as the BBC are its’ propaganda wing! I think the EU/EC/UN etc is the way forward. There is supposed to to be a demonstration outside Pacific Quay on 23rd February at 4pm. I am not sure who the organisers are, but hopefully some folk on here might know more about it. As I say, I am very happy to get involved. Looking forward to hearing how you get on with the research.
Cheer Bill
@ Bill C
My reasoning for thinking of the UK gov as the principle recipient, is they are the ones who appoint the BBC’s management. I think the best we can hope for from this, is to raise public and international awareness of our situation. As I said though, I need to put a bit more thought in to this.
Cheers
Just donated, and it’s well worth it. I’ve often told people to look at articles here for real information. Hope you reach your target and can keep going.
If you are looking for any other help too (I’m a developer), I’d be happy to contribute any spare time I have. Got a full-time job and 2 kids, so it’s not loads, but if I can help, let me know.
“If you are looking for any other help too (I’m a developer), I’d be happy to contribute any spare time I have. “
What sort of developer?
Ahhh, if we’re putting in our CVs, then I’m also a developer Stu – 5 years of Java and 18 months of .NET. And I made the website for my band when I was, well, in a band.
Mind you, although I have no kids, I’m also a lazy bastard and incredibly unreliable…
Been a web dev for 11 years. Primarily Coldfusion but tinkered with others. it’s mostly application development rather than basic websites any more, but basically done everything from simple websites to apps that involve complex business processes.
Actually just realised it’s almost 13 years – getting old
Okay, Lorraine wins, get her to do stuff 😛
@Cameron- See where you are coming from, however it seems to me that AS didn’t get much change out of Patten after they had met to discuss BBC bias. Also with the latest revelation that Whitehall spies might be embedded in the Scottish Civil Service, (big surprise? NOT) I don’t think Cameron and Co will be very receptive. Anyway, give me a shout if you come up with anything, keen to help in any way I can.
Cheers Bill
Boabyfett,
That said however, we can either teach children everyone is equal or they are not. As far as I can see it is that as black and white an issue. I think it is more a statement of the society we should be. Everyone is the same, no privilege and no discrimination except by your own actions in how you treat other.
Mate, I can understand what you are saying, but this is a topic that touches a nerve for most people. Personally, if two folk are in love each other then so be it. I wish them well for there is enough bad crap in this world without worrying about what 2 folk from the same sex get up to. If they are happy, then seriously I’m happy for them.
I do agree that if a church doesn’t want to perform gay marriages then so be it – it is the churches choice. Maybe the way out of it, is to set up a new church in the eyes of God where gay, normal, whatever can marry in it, as long as it doesn’t infringe on other religions in case it causes offence. The whole ‘equality’ thing is becoming too over cumbersome as you can’t appease everyone, and sooner or later, you are eventually going to upset someone. An example being, Hamza mentioned you can’t take alcohol into a Mosque, but he or the muslim community is not going out of its way to ban drinking anywhere else. ‘Sensibility’ sometimes needs to be at the forefront over ‘equality’. Either that, or we head down the path of anarchy and everyone screaming ‘human rights, human rights’
As to the kids themselves. At 12,13,14,15 years of age, these kids are already messed up with the changes in their bodies at that age (I have a 14 year old stepdaughter and by god, the mood swings and questions to her mother are aaaaaaaarghhhh!!!). I have no problem with the kids being told that it is okay if 2 females, or 2 males are in love with each other …Love is love, and that should be enough. Love is all that matters.
The fine line here is trying to teach the kids the act of sex. What do we now teach them? Do we still teach them the act of sex between a man and a woman, or are we now to introduce an extra segment as to how the act should be performed between 2 members of the same sex? And remember, these are children we are dealing with …not adults. This is a sensitive area, and for some kids, the explanation of the act may be just too disturbing to them as it screams ‘this does not feel right’ (…and it won’t if we want to be brutally honest. Even adults on both sides (gay / non-gay) would find the act of the other side ‘too weird’ to contemplate doing themselves. We just have to accept that.). The argument …is what do we teach the kids.
And I think, this was the point that Brian Souter was trying to make last night. ‘Sensibility’ and even ‘Sensitivity’ needs to be at the forefront in these matters. I don’t believe Brian Souter is a bigot in any form when it comes to people who are gay. What he is worried about is, what do we teach the kids, and with that, I do agree with him…
Just donated and another first time poster…great site always my first site to check when online
Keep up the good work
“Been a web dev for 11 years. Primarily Coldfusion but tinkered with others. it’s mostly application development rather than basic websites any more, but basically done everything from simple websites to apps that involve complex business processes.”
Ace. May call upon you in the future, then – many thanks.
I am an uncle to two beautiful nieces, now aged 8 and 5. I have a partner of 7 years that I would like to marry … But we’re both blokes. i’m lucky to have a loving, very caring family, but we’d been careful and reserved in front of the kids, until (we thought) they were old enough to properly understand.
When she was 5 years old, the oldest asked her Mum “Do Uncle G and Uncle A kiss each other, when they’re really happy the way that you and Daddy do?” “Yes, just like Mummy and Daddy” came the reply. “good, everyone needs someone to love and be happy with” – said my 5 year old niece.
To anyone out there concerned about what you tell kids and when, just be careful, because unwittingly you may be pointing out the differences that in their heads, simply don’t exist.
Children are born without prejudice, they learn it from adults.
Donated, Wish you all the best, & look fwd to reading the truth.
I see that some of our friends have offered help with site development. Would a free, unlimited hosting package help?
I’m thinking that it could be used as a development platform for a new site and, if the hosting package comes up to expectations, you could continue to use it when the site is ready to go live without having to migrate to a new host.
Send me an email if you think this is worth talking about, Stu.
Been an avid reader for over a year now, happy to chuch in a tenner.
I have also got over 10yrs experience as a financial analyst so if I can help with any economic analysis and forecasting just let me know. Have access to BoE forecasts, etc. through my job if that helps.
Contributed my £1. Sorry it couldn’t be more but not currently working and hubby’s job is not looking too safe right now either. I’m a journalist by the way so if you do hit the target and are looking for contributors in future please remember me! #chancingmyarm
Garth, Fay: duly noted, and thanks!
First point – if we are going to have any kind of petition, please can it be accessed by non twitter/ FB users. I do not think I am alone in using neither (nor wish too)
About the kiddies – kids nowadays are far more wise the the ways of the world and at a much younger age than we would imagine.
I will never forget my mother trying to tell me ‘the ways of the world’ at the age of 16 – I’d learned everything I needed to (2 years earlier) from my school chums about sex, whether it be heterosexual, bi-sexual or homosexual relationships. so the ‘what do we teach the kiddies’ I don’t know, but you can be rest assured their ain’t much they don’t know at 10 or 12 nowadays.
Rev Stu, that is my contribution on its way. Should get it in the next few days.
Stu, could you delete my previous comment? I think this was, probably, the wrong place for it and I’d rather it didn’t sit around.
Thanks.
@ Laura
If you a referring to the petition I am getting together, your comment is dually noted. I am of a similar outlook to yourself, as I wold never dream of using anything that got its seed money from the CIA. I suppose the petition will have to be accessible to those who do though, as everyone and their uncle seams to be at it. For those who might think I have my tinfoil hat back on, here is a link to the CIA’s business incubator.
http://www.iqt.org/about/mission.html
Delighted to donate a modest monthly token to help maintain this very worthy strand of positivity in a sea of mud and slime. I marvel at your prolific output, originality and the width and depth of research across these pages. Be assured that it is very much appreciated.
Just made another donationWe need this site to work
Donation completed as promised Rev, more power to your PC, a whole nation will thank you in 2014.
Further to my previous post.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505123_162-42749309/social-media-is-a-tool-of-the-cia-seriously/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/10/software-tracks-social-media-defence
How about Aaavz.org or 38degrees.org.uk for Petitions ?
Get Donating peoples.
Done. Rev, i’ll see you in the members bar.
@ deewal
I haven’t got that far yet, but I’ll definitely check them out.
Would anyone know if it is a good idea to host petitions on multiple carriers?
I will make a “payday pledge” to send another donation at the end of the month. Anyone else?
Another tenner in the pot, Stu. Freedom don’t come for free!
Just donated to WoS a wee one thanks for your work Stu.
Tom Hogg says:
I will make a “payday pledge” to send another donation at the end of the month. Anyone else?
Aye. Me.
Aye, come next payday I’ll top up my donation a bit too. I’ll not want to be looking back two years from now wishing I had given to the pot.
Donated Stu and delighted to do so
Thanks for all your hard work to date…
Aye
Gavin
There was an item on GMS this morning wherein the BBC cautioned us about the dangers of bloggers like the Rev. Where, asked David Millar, were the checks and balances – and indeed qualifications – respectively required to keep these people in line and to allow them to articulate opinions at all? You know, like the checks and balances the BBC are subject to, and like the qualifications possessed by their reporters.
I’m now so concerned that Stuart Campbell has a) no qualifications and b) is not subject to any checks and balances that this morning I am doubling my original donation.
@Training Day – hang on, the Rev does have qualifications, he has been a journo since the 90’s, and he has checks and balances – us!
Still needs the support though………..
Extrapolating from what was said above about off-system donations, it seems to me the overall total is north of £14,000 now.
Training Day,
Well, well, well the good old BBC warning us on the dangers of bloggers like the good Rev. Stu whatever next?
Gave up with the BBC ages ago, just waiting for them to contact me to update my annual subscription. Think I may tell them I am far too busy keeping up with balanced reporting on the internet and no longer have the time for their British Brainwashing Corporation
What’s there to miss, Eastenders?
Another donation coming your way Rev. as soon as I’m done with them.
I too have contributed to your site, but with mixed feelings, why? well I have trouble
keeping up with your output as it is, as I feel honour bound to read all the following
comments, like your articles some are very informative, and it`s great when someone
breaks the thread with a wee jokey comment, but when you are successful in your
quest for almost thirty grand and increase your out-put by say three-fold I`ll be
buggered trying to read every word plus comments, leaving me no time to attack
“Ol Cockers” he really has a twisted outlook, oh aye what happened to the apprentice lawyer have not seen any comments from him of late, mind you he
reminds me of some apprentices I have had in my working life, half way through
their apprenticeship they think that they know it all!!.
STU. Without any prompting i decided to donate to your site, as it’s the best on the web about the subject. Can’t afford too much as i’m an an O.A.P. Pressed your ‘donate’ button and tried to get through to send a few quid. Tried a few times, followed the instructions but could’nt get any satisfaction. As far as doing these things on the PC is concerned i’m a dumkoff. I’ll get someone to show me how before the week’s out though. Keep up the good work, your country needs you.
Old Mikey, maybe the good old-fashioned bank transfer option on the donate page (scroll down a bit) is the easiest option? It’s also the cheapest for Stuart as it does not incur fees.
“dumkoff” -> Dummkopf
Pay day and another couple of quid.
Good luck Rev.