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Wings Over Scotland


At last, the big questions

Posted on October 08, 2013 by

This, chums, is what the Daily Telegraph thinks of as “a house”:

houseprice

The article appears to go on to suggest that house prices in England would rocket as a result of a Yes vote, while those in Scotland would plummet. We’re not quite sure that the average Scottish voter will reach the same conclusion from that assertion that the Telegraph would want them to.

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    153 to “At last, the big questions”

    1. Triskelion says:

      Anything below that standard would be an indigninty for a Telegraph reader.

    2. Tom Hogg says:

      Jesus wept

    3. Simon says:

      High house prices are bad, just as bad as high fuel prices, high food prices, etc.

      So if independence caused house prices to fall in Scotland that would be good for ordinary people. Our cost of living would fall, we would spend less on our rent or mortgage and we would have more money to spend elsewhere. And we’d be able to afford a better place to live.

      The only people who would lose out are those making a living from property income – landlords, bankers issuing mortgages, etc.

      The bias and propaganda in the English media in favour of high house prices is as universal and insiduous and damaging to peoples interests, as the bias and propaganda here in favour of the Union.

    4. Seasick Dave says:

      I think that Scotland will become deserted of people after Independence because who, in their right mind, would ever want to live in a country that had full control of all its resources?
       
      Its always best if you leave the important levers of power to your neighbours and let them help themselves to your resources.
       
      After all, you can always ask them for a loan until pay day if you need it.
       
      That’s what neighbours are for.

    5. sneddon says:

      I love the assertion that Berwick could cope with an influx of new residents because its is used to being invaded.  This Telegraph article is written as a piss take surely? It is one of the most mental scare stories so far.

    6. Gordon Smith says:

      Good indication of the Strength of an independent Scottish economy I would think, thanks to the Torygraph for pointing it out.

      A commuter belt where houses of ~£1m are snapped up , and their work place being in Scotland, must mean the Scottish economy is booming to support these jobs and paypackets. Only Question, would an Edinburgh Plumber want such a large house, although plenty of room to store the lengths of cotter pipe I suppose?, And would he get the pipe on the new train line?

    7. wee jamie says:

      Think of all the fun flipper Darling could have with that chunk of Cheswick, what, with it’s gate lodge and cottages, the possibilities are endless!. Sadly for the rest of us , at a shade under £ 2,000,000, you would need to be an M.P  to even consider it as a viable second home !

    8. john king says:

      Now thats what I call a but an ben,
      got to have somwhere to hang your purdys up after a long day on the grouse moor
      dontcha know?

    9. PRJ says:

      Everyone has forgotten that our economy is on a knife edge with an increasing debt liability. House prices are only as safe as our economy, we may have indications of a recovery but this remains fragile, that economic crash is still around the corner.

    10. Harry Shanks says:

      At my local Newsagent’s I’ve never actually witnessed anybody buy a copy of the Telegraph.
       

    11. Atypical_Scot says:

      Looks like a nice gaff, plenty of room out front for the trebuchet…,

    12. bramasag says:

      Don’t we have a history of abandoned homes in abandoned glens.  Maybe this is a total spoof and evidence of the swiveled eyed loons of the right preparing to abandon their shooting estates for other pastures. Fingers crossed.

    13. David Smith says:

      In the south when I lived there, it seemed that house prices were the centrepiece of most conversations. Even then it troubled me. I doubt you’d find anywhere else in Europe where having to enslave yourself for 25 years to a lender just to have a roof over your head is viewed as a good thing. I hope that next year I can live in a country that doesn’t consider such vacuousness as normal and aspirational.

    14. Presumably this exodus of the wealthy will be like the flight of bankers the UK, erm, didn’t experience.

      There could be no better illustration of how wealth does not buy happiness that folk MIGHT be prepared to give up home, hearth, rellies, friends and social life and move away for the sake of a few quid in tax.

      I’m starting to come to the conclusion that any indyref story with a MIGHT or a COULD in the first paragraph is not worth the reading.

    15. Luigi says:

      Good grief!  They have said anything and everything against and independent Scotland, except that the sky will fall down.  I guess they are keeping that cherry for the day before the vote (as they did in 2007).

    16. Seasick Dave says:

      A little bird in the house building sector told me recently that Smith Gore had been deliberately talking down property prices in Scotland based on the upcoming referendum.
       
      A little bit naughty, if true.
       
      Does anyone have any corroborating evidence to back this up?

    17. Robert Kerr says:

      @PRJ
      I have not forgotten ! I also know the deference between debt and deficit.
      Hail Caesar!

    18. Gizzit says:

      As I shuffle listlessly towards the twilight of my life, I can remember when a three bedroom semi was fetching around three times the average annual wage.
       
      Of course in those days it was possible for a family to survive on a single salary, and live modestly but well.  Different global economic circumstances of course, but these halcyon days are not so long gone.
       
      Who really benefits from insane house prices?  It’s all part of the wretched cloud-castle pyramid scheme that serves to enrich the wealthy and enslave the poor.

    19. Ivan McKee says:

      Good morning.
       
      Reality-check time.
       
      http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/scottish-housing-market-strengthened-by-independence/
       
      http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/the-independence-dividend-opportunities-for-the-property-sector/
       
      Says who ?
       
      http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/profile-david-morrison/
       
      http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/profile-les-meikle/
       
      http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/profile-michelle-thomson/
       
      Think about it – the capital city of an Independent nation will have all kind of people coming to live and visit – embassies; trade delegations; international agencies; head offices – particularly in the offshore sector – why would you continue to sit in London if all the decision makers you need to influence on policy are in Edinburgh ? London will be as relevant to the Oil Industry as Berlin or Paris.
       
      Take a walk round any of the newly independent states in Eastern Europe and see the large former up-market residential areas of the capital cities now housing embassies, international agencies, corporate offices etc.
       
      The challenge on property in Indy Scotland will be to implement a house building program that provides enough capacity, and to put a brake on rising house prices, not the other way round.

    20. cath says:

      As someone who owns a wee flat in the coveted East End of Glasgow my fear is actually that property prices will rise in an independent Scotland. We’ll need a lot of new buildings, especially commercial and to take on various new functions such as all the embassies we’ll be hosting. I also strongly suspect there’ll be an economic bounce and a lot of new people moving in, especially from other parts of the UK.
       
      One challenge for the Scottish government will be to keep a lid on that boom – or spread it equitably – and on house prices so that it doesn’t end up creating the same kind of rise in inequalities booms in the UK did over the past few decades.
       
      I’m certainly not worried independence will plunge me into negative equity.

    21. Jon D says:

      Ha! The Telegraph; Widnae wipe ma dugs bahookie wi’ it.
      (Sorry for lowering the tone, but this is the best I can do to further the debate).

    22. Les Wilson says:

      My opinion would be that the Scottish housing market would have a temporary hiccup, but would before long become a vibrant market as our economy improves across the board.

    23. cath says:

      “I doubt you’d find anywhere else in Europe where having to enslave yourself for 25 years to a lender just to have a roof over your head”
       
      One of the saddest things I ever read was a story of two sisters who’d bought an ex council flat in London together with a mortgage that basically stretched their entire life and left them with nothing to live on. It wasn’t the story so much that was tragic but the way it was reported as a success story, with the two girls toasting their flat and how they were so lucky they’d managed to get a house. I have a similar feeling with these job programmes where there’s a kind of X-factor “I can’t believe it’s happened, this is a dream come true” emotion to some kid getting a job in Tescos.
       
      Where and when did this country go so totally wrong?

    24. kendomacaroonbar says:

      Looks a lot like Wingsland Towers annexe !

    25. Ananurhing says:

      Lowered house prices is a bullet that will have to be bitten sooner or later. For the sake of the younger generation, I hope it’s sooner.

      I heard Malcolm Fraser on the radio the other day arguing against building new towns. Bollocks! Build them. Loads of them. At least that could allow some kind of controlled deflation in prices.

    26. Albalha says:

      Even though negative I think it continues to normalise the idea that a YES vote is possible. And of course today, as well, we hear of the leaked MOD papers talking about the negative impact a YES vote would have on the rest of the UK.
       
      What it would mean for England, Wales and NI, and their standing in the world.

    27. Gray says:

      I imagine the millions of English trying to move to Scotland to enjoy a better life after independence will inflate the house prices north of the border.

      The Telegraph is quite right to point this out, its readership needs to know the facts after all.

    28. Shinty says:

      House prices? – there won’t be any houses in an iScotland, (since we cannae afford to defend ourselves), we’ll all be living in bunkers for fear of invasion from Mars, amongst others.

    29. Albalha says:

      @kendomacaroonbar
      I bags the belfry.

    30. Ivan McKee says:

      (Sorry Rev, posted this earlier, but too many links so tripped into moderation).

       Reality-check time.
       
      http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/scottish-housing-market-strengthened-by-independence/
       
      http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/the-independence-dividend-opportunities-for-the-property-sector/
        
      Think about it – the capital city of an Independent nation will have all kind of people coming to live and visit – embassies; trade delegations; international agencies; head offices – particularly in the offshore sector – why would you continue to sit in London if all the decision makers you need to influence on policy are in Edinburgh ? London will be as relevant to the Oil Industry as Berlin or Paris.
       
      Take a walk round any of the newly independent states in Eastern Europe and see the large former up-market residential areas of the capital cities now housing embassies, international agencies, corporate offices etc.
       
      The challenge on property in Indy Scotland will be to implement a house building program that provides enough capacity, and to put a brake on rising house prices, not the other way round.

    31. Horacesaysyes says:

      Admit it, Rev. You’ve just got some property in Berwick to off-load, and you’ve mocked up a spoof Telegraph article to get folk to look at them.

      ‘Cause that can’t be a serious article, surely?

    32. Wee_monsieur says:

      I once ‘won’ a week’s free delivery of The Telegraph.
      Happily, I have a coal fire in the house!

    33. Ananurhing says:

      O/T Did anyone else hear Hayley Miller on Radio Scotlend this morning feeding the latest Glibdem Dover House incumbent with the line that the SNP have labelled BT as ” Project Fear”.
       
      He then described this as the SNP’s usual line of abuse. Deliberate lie, or slack jawed incompetence?

    34. MajorBloodnok says:

      How the fuck did they get into my garden?

    35. Albalha says:

      @IvanMckee
      Well quite that’s what happened to Edinburgh prices with the setting up of the Scottish parliament.

      @ananurhring
      Yes sadly I did. I texted in, something I do rarely, pointing out the sheer inaccuracy of the point. Others may have done too.

    36. desimond says:

      Now isnt the boom property area Aberdeen? And didnt Aberdeen really post a poll vote showing massive support for Independence. Thats good enough for me.

    37. Seasick Dave says:

      Who would have thought that letting Scotland control its own affairs would have such a devastating impact on the world?
       
      There must be a Hollywood disaster movie just waiting to be made.
       
      We could call it, erm, Independence Day.

    38. Training Day says:

      So, a quick summary then (takes deep breath):
       
      Scotland will be defenceless, vulnerable to catastrophic terrorist attack, at risk of losing water, gas and electricity, have no shipbuilding industry or ships, have no airlines running services to Scotland, be the heaviest taxed area in the world, have low house prices, high food prices, collapsing oil revenues, will run out of blood supplies, be unable to compete on the sporting field, be drink and drug-addled, won’t be able to run a mail service, won’t want to run any non-electric vehicles, could be bombed by England to shore up their defences, won’t be able to afford pensions, won’t have a financial services industry, won’t be able to afford an NHS, will have the poorest educational standards in the world due to introducing Scottish history into the curriculum, and will be a dictatorship (it is already).
       
      There’s your first script for you, Mr Carmichael.  I realise it’s only just scratched the surface, but it’ll do to be going on with.

    39. The Man in the Jar says:

      I live in Bothwell an “affluent satellite village” just outside Glasgow. A Bothwell post code and phone number is worth a couple of grand on your house price apparently.
       
      Within a radius of about 200 yards from where my house is there are four substantial properties with major building work being carried out. There are lots of builders vans and skips appearing in the streets. On top of that there is a hideous block of 60 “Executive luxury” flats near completion with “Showflat now open” signs everywhere. Interesting that the work on thee flats was dormant all of last winter and it is now a hive of activity. Also at the weekends folk are queuing up to view the showflat.
       
      Whether this is a good thing or not will depend on your own point of view, however like Alex Salmond says “Follow the Money!” 

    40. cadgers says:

      @ MajorBloodnok
      LOL!

    41. Albalha says:

      @TrainingDay
      Very good, you summarise their attempt to do a Mark rent-boy Renton.

    42. jim mitchell says:

      You know we are really going to have to get a list made up of all the things that have been put on the project fear list, you know NATO, Trident, roaming charges, border controls, folk in the rUK going in the huff just because Scotland made a democratic decision etc etc etc.
      I’ve forgotten the half of them!

    43. Seasick Dave says:

      Training Day
       
      Plus, it will have the neighbours from hell 🙂

    44. frankieboy says:

      Are these the very same economic ‘experts’ who didn’t see the recession coming or the credit crunch? I wouldn’t trust on them to call heads or heads correctly with a two headed coin

    45. seoc says:

      @Seasick Dave – brilliant.
      The gloom-mongers remind me of one of those end-of-world scenes where a jesus look-alike figure (pure guesswork) leads a frightened group up some mountain on the predicted last evening.
      Other groups load up their bullock carts and trundle South on the M74.
      They always look so sheepish when the prediction inevitably fails, don’t they?

    46. joe kane says:

      It’s a dagger pointed at the heart of British house prices!
      If the nats go indy they plan to annex the Sudetenland, sorry, I mean Berwick-upon-Tweed. On independence expect Dictator Eck to stir up tensions amongst his Caledonian myrmidons south of the border –
      Berwick-upon-Tweed should return to Scotland 
      https://www.facebook.com/pages/Berwick-upon-Tweed-should-return-to-Scotland/367609779939918 

    47. HenBroon says:

      This was the script pre the 2007 election. Overnight if we elected an SNP Government there would be an immediate house price crash as people of loaded their Scottish assets and ran for the border. Troops would be called in to keep order at the now closed border with England. Scottish based business would see the stock market immediately devalue any thing left here, there would be no cocks crowing North of Gretna on the 8th of May.

      And so it came to pass that Scotland voted for the SNP, and the sky stayed up, Scotland became a more confident country and inward investment has grown ever since. We have since 2007 out performed the UK. What is it with these unionist arseholes that they wish and dream of so much misfortune to befall Scotland.

      And then we come to Carmichael the new SOS. He is being touted as the hard man who is going to eat Salmond up, this treble chinned loud mouthed red faced shouty man who because he once dressed as a Viking for Up Hella Ah has the Daily Record today creaming their collective pants at the thought of his next move. Dear God what desperation is now taking hold of these poor invertebrate unionist beasties. And if that were not enough to send us nats screaming to the cupboard under the stairs, we have Jim Murphy, “you rang.” Apparently now he has been sacked he is to pay much more attention to the referendum campaign. If that attention is anything like his root and branch review of Labour in Scotland, then we can put the Claymores back in the thatch. What a bunch of blowhard no marks they are.

    48. Bubbles says:

      @ Ananurhing
       
      I heard it and quoted it on my FB page. I think that’s what Mr Carstairs brings to the debate – the total ability to lie without blinking. The BBC exist merely to provide a platform for these lies.
       
      On property – at least some of the rich are leaving Scotland, whether it’s to do with forthcoming independence I have no idea. Before anyone shouts “good riddance” please consider how this impacts upon the employees and tenants who live on these estates.
       
      search.savills.com/property-detail/gbedruedr130013?utm_source=SavResi&utm_medium=homepage&utm_campaign=kinpurnie

    49. Murray McCallum says:

      The Telegraph is consistent when you consider their readership and economics model is founded on property speculation and asset price bubbles.
       
      An Englishman’s home is his castle [prison] – delete as appropriate when property prices rising [falling]. They just can’t get enough of it.

    50. HandandShrimp says:

      Soaraway house prices and borrowing against spurious equity values were the things that resulted in the toxic debts of so many banks. Why would this be presented as a good thing?
       
      A house is for living in. People need somewhere to live. If houses are affordable in Scotland and unaffordable in England the only scare is that there might be a stampede of people trying to escape England. However as one of the other scare stories is that there would be gun turrets every 50 yards along the border they wouldn’t be able to do that. This is just a ridiculous story. What are the houses prices in Belgium? Denmark? France? What does it matter? What will matter to young Scots is whether they can afford a home. The cost of a house in another country would have no bearing on their choices in Scotland.

    51. joe kane says:

      Eck’s agents have been hard at work, and by agents I don’t mean estate agents –
      TV poll backs Berwick border move 
      BBC England 
      17 Feb 2008
      http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/7248529.stm

    52. Dorothy Devine says:

      Re the ludicrous DT and its baloney writers, has anyone succeeded in reading the comments or adding to the comments ?

      I cannot access them and yet there appear to be a few available. I can access other DT journalese.

      Disqus is not disclosing them  and I can’t help wondering why.

      Have their esteemed Scotland correspondents had enough of the scorn heaped on them from Scotland?

      Or is it just me??

    53. Patrick Roden says:

      The Scottish Skier Theory?
      It’s getting harder to remain an unbeliever! 🙂

    54. Ananurhing says:

      Bubbles,
      As far as I can see, sales of sporting estates in Scotland are on the up. Lots of international buyers joining the rush to buy land here.

    55. Brian Powell says:

      It is a strange feeling to have the whole world pivot on us and the Referendum; from destabising the whole housing market in the UK to the same on the security of the Western World.

      Far across the world great forces are waiting and planning, their fingers hovering on the nuclear triggers, terrorists are massing, great Boards of banks have the removal men on speed dial, the mighty nations of NATO, the arrayed Minsters of the EU standing over maps of Europe; poised, beads of sweat rising of their collective foreheads.

      Waiting for that moment and only that moment when a Yes or No comes through. In the moment of Yes then even the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse would be swept aside and the very Universe would spin in reverse.

      According to a Better Together leaflet that came through the door the other night; just as I was about to have my tea.

    56. Jimbo says:

      When we become independent:
       
      Haggis will become an endangered species as it will be hunted to near extinction by the half starved natives.
       
      Electricity will become a commodity affordable only to the very rich who come here for the grouse shooting.
       
      Our lochs will run dry as our water is pumped south to help pay off our debts to the rUK.
       
      I’m getting really fekked off with Unionist politicians and the MSM talking about us as if we’re some kind of incapable, inferior society. 

    57. Kenny Campbell says:

      It is actually an interesting question. As a former cross border worker you are normally taxed where you work and you get relief where you live. Therefore if you work in Edinburgh the effort of moving to England would have limited benefit.
       
      The reason rich folk move from France to Belgium is not so much income tax but that the tax regime on dividends and capital gains on investments are much better in Belgium. The tax regime is built to sustain wealth if you have already have it.
       
      Income tax and social security are actually higher in Belgium than in France. Thus if you have money its easier to retain it than if you are a normal worker bee doing PAYE. Just for comparison to what we pay in the UK today.
       
      Belgium taxation for earnings over around 30KEuro gets deducted around 63% across tax,social security and local taxes….most people take home under 50% of what they earn gross. There is little or no tax deductable on pension payments(max 1100Euro annually) and home stamp duty is around 17% with capital gains payable if you sell within 5 years. There is however still some tax deduction on interest payments for house purchases.
       
      Car tax is dependent on engine power/CO2 but it goes up to 2500euros per year….

      VAT is 21%

      There is no council tax if you rent but there is a tax on a house based on theoretical rental value if you own a house.

    58. Frances says:

      Caesar!hla,
      And of course today, as well, we hear of the leaked MOD papers talking about the negative impact a YES vote would have on the rest of the UK.
       
      Where did you hear this, I’d like a listen / read?

    59. jim mitchell says:

      ‘Are these the very same economic ‘experts’ who didn’t see the recession coming or the credit crunch? I wouldn’t trust on them to call heads or heads correctly with a two headed coin’

      Yup frankieboy the very same ones, I guess that like me you think it’s hysterical when unionists give our economic advice, especially as they have shown themselves to be so good a tit in the past, (heavy on the sarcasm),

    60. Kenny Campbell says:

      A cantilevered staircase sweeps up to the four bedrooms. Can the asking price really only be £350,000?
       
      As I watch these ‘property porn’ programs on TV with couples in their 30’s having a budget of 750K I wonder, what do these people do for a living….. I have a good job but 350K is a lot of money.

    61. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Oatrick Roden
       
      Today we have Hallam up in Scotland talking verbal diarrhoea about how we will defenceless, invaded by the Lofoten Islands and unable to buy the toys to defend ourselves.

      I was always on the same track as SS, long time ago for reasons I have expounded slightly less often than Morag posts on a blog line or two.

    62. Arbroath 1320 says:

      Thank you kind Daily Telegraph person.
      I am too poor, too wee and too stupid to understand words like House. Your incredible kindness in this matter in showing me what the simplest of houses looks like is most gratifying.
       
      *Bow and curtsy whilst walking backwards and tugging fore lock.*
       
      Sir I am in awe of all your knowledge of such things as houses I can now return to my simple cardboard box safe in the knowledge that one day I too can dream of owning a double box apartment by the tow path down by the river underneath the bridge. 😆 

    63. Albalha says:

      @Frances
      On GMS this morning, anyway here it is on their site, on RHS of this story.
       
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-24437333

    64. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      O/T but just by the way – cheers for this, Rod Mac. Nice work.

      https://twitter.com/blairmcdougall/status/387344216445046784

      That totally helps.

    65. Albalha says:

      Oh and when I was looking for the link on MOD leaks, came across this on property
       
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-24436356

    66. Simon says:

      £350,000 is not that much money if you are earning over £100,000 a year – it’s a bit over three year’s salary which is a reasonable price for a house to live in.

    67. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Today we have Hallam up in Scotland”

      UNFORTUNATE SUBJECT CROSS-INFECTION ALERT.

    68. molly says:

      See the title, The Big Questions can I ask anyone,following Nordic Horizons and The Common Weal and given yesterdays announcement that the same people who benefit from the status quo are to write a paper on local Govt

      1. If there was a national bank ,then smaller local banks ,kind of  like the Airdries Savings bank, would that not mean house prices in each area would stabilise,reducing a domino effect-dare I say less volatile or susceptible to speculators?

      2.In Naples,underpinning peoples livelihoods are thousands of small businesses and I mean small, bakers,shoe shops etc ,would small local banks not be in the best position to invest and support  small businesses?

      3.I listened to Cathy Mcdonald at the week-end talking about basically, the penny bank. A group of woman, I think in Pollockshaws, had gained advice and financial support,( the penny bank, local church ,Scottish Govt and I think local council)  and set up their own laundry service smack bang in the middle of their community,working for themselves.The difference this had made to the womans lives, choices ,confidence was amazing to hear.Imagine that replicated all over Scotland, the impact it would have?
       

    69. Les Wilson says:

      Here is a thought,
      Westminster will have their enforced referendum on Europe. There is, with  the rise of UKIP and supporters within the Tory and other UK parties a rise for a NO vote to Europe. Let us imagine that a NO vote was returned.

      Let us also imagine a YES vote in Scotland, which would lead to  Scotland being accepted  into Europe.

      What then do, rUK companies who wish close links with a European system find they will effectively be outside of a large historical market. Just how could they keep a hold of business interests within the European Union.

      It could perhaps be as easy as they would want it to be.

      To re register their company in Scotland.

      from such an arrangement they could continue to freely trade with the European market. However, as they would then be a company under Scottish law and taxation system.

      They would like that because business tax rates may well be below those they would be charged through the rUK system, who could ill afford to lower tax thresholds to the lower Scottish level due a taxation need to attempt to service the spiral national debt.

      So we could readily, see why, rUK companies would come to Scotland, they have much to gain, a further bonus would be the costs of a Scottish base as opposed to the sky high  costs in the lower half of rUK.

      The bonus for Scotland is more jobs, possibly many more jobs of all levels. Scotland would get the tax take, from all of this,which would all contribute to the Scottish GDP. Which would make Scotland more important  than ever to r UK if, at least fora number of years Scottish GDP would go through the  Uk Sterling area.

      Could this really happen, well I would think that it certainly could, opinions of others?
       

    70. gerry parker says:

      @training day.
      Yes – and we’re all looking forward to it too!

    71. gerry parker says:

      @Les Wilson
      And hopefully the Scottish Tax rule book would be a bit less than the 11,520 pages the UK one runs to.

    72. Stuart Black says:

      What Gizzit said.
       
      Simplistic analysis I know, but I think the mad boom in property prices, leaving the toxic  CDOs and CDSs aside, was a major contributor to the collapse of 2008 certainly it was the cause of the insane levels of household debt that many bought into, in the expectations of rising prices.
       
      As Gizzit points out, you could buy a decent house for around three times your wage, halcyon days indeed. What those rushing out to buy their new 4×4 did not take into consideration, was how the young were supposed to get on the ladder, once it was pulled up behind the ravening consumers. Because it does not only affect those who wish to buy, rents went crazy on the back of this, and we now have the situation where, in many if not most cases, it is more expensive to rent than to buy (lacking a deposit), shafted every which way indeed.
       
      Fucking bonkers.

    73. Tris says:

      Not only would be be able to make our own decisions, but we’d be able to afford property too. It just gets better!

    74. Ron burgundy says:

      House prices will rise in the next 6 to 12 months. This is a deliberate consequence of the Help to Buy scheme. Creating a property bubble and the sugar rush of a feel good factor is considered by Cameron to be an essential pre-requisite of a Tory victory in 2015.

      Personal indebtedness will increase along with massive money printing. The currency is and will be devalued further and inflation will soar – but the idea is to create the illusion of a mini boom. 

      Never forget the Help to Buy scheme is paid for with Chinese loans and as the British state racks up the debt they are gambling that the Chinese will still be confident they will get their money back. If this falters and it will – rates will rise and the BUST will follow. When it blows it will blow big Something you will never learn by watching the BBC.

      Check out the KEISER report on RT.

    75. Albalha says:

      @Molly
      Re all your points, if you haven’t already, I think you’d enjoy reading Lesley Riddoch’s book ‘Blossom’. Discusses lots of these points and, also, details community, cooperative projects that have been up and running for years.

    76. Robert Louis says:

      Another day, another mindless scare story.  The real irony of the article in the Telegraph, is that in my opinion, house prices in Scotland may rise following independence.  Many of the roles of Government for Scotland are currently performed by people in London.  Once we are independent, these positions will be based principally in Scotland, thereby leading to increased commercial activity and ‘high level’ employment.
       
      slightly o/t,
      Interstingly, I spoke to an old friend yesterday, who I hadn’t properly discussed the referendum with, and he is not a political anorak like myself.  When I started talking about ‘scare stories’ by those opposing democratic self rule for Scotland, he started ranting about it.  He regarded what the anti independence people had been saying in the media as just stupid beyond belief.  
       
      I didn’t need to say anything, he had realised all by himself they were lying.  He will be voting YES.
       
      It really seems as though many people in Scotland have started to realise that these endless moronic, repetitive, scare stories by Better together are just baloney.  The NO vote really is very soft.

    77. southernscot says:

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18623096
      “The urban landscape accounts for 10.6% of England, 1.9% of Scotland, 3.6% of Northern Ireland and 4.1% of Wales.”

      A really good article on actual built on land in the UK. Makes you wonder why they don’t build more houses to reduce the house prices.

    78. Frances says:

      Caesar!lha,
       
      Thanks very much.  Interesting reading.  I wonder if the BBC will cover more of that document they’ve only briefly referred to.  To be quite honest, I can’t believe they’ve even mentioned it.

    79. molly says:

      Thanks Caesar!lha, it’s on the way apparantly.I tried explaining to a colleague ,in a, it does’nt have to be this way , kind of thing and was basically laughed at.She seemed to think a local bank would be a disaster waiting to happen. Not sure if thats a reflection on bankers or the ‘cringe’.

    80. MajorBloodnok says:

      @southernscot
       
      Building more houses to reduce house prices is the last thing any house builder or lender wants.  Preventing the Local Councils from house building was all part of the Tory plan to tie all of us into a system where we had to work hard all our lives to pay interest on the borrowed money we needed to buy houses at inflated prices so the interest cash could keep rolling into the banks.

    81. Frances says:

      Les Wilson,
       
      I totally agree – that has been my view for some time.

    82. Macart says:

      Who gave them permission to photograph my house?

    83. jim mitchell says:

      The Telegraph just couldn’t resist that little bit about Scots canniness with money, I wonder if that tickled the Scots of the NO campaign?

    84. Albalha says:

      @Frances
      I’m wondering if they’ve maybe only seen the slides, the images in the article, from the presentation, could be, not sure.
       

    85. Bubbles says:

      @ Ananurhing
       
      i hope so. Actually, in an independent country I’d prefer to outlaw the ability of the rich to hold so many to ransom in the future.

    86. msean says:

      Non story,non newspaper.Like others,i have never EVER seen anyone buy this newspaper.EVER.

    87. Kenny Campbell says:

      “£350,000 is not that much money if you are earning over £100,000 a year – it’s a bit over three year’s salary which is a reasonable price for a house to live in.”
       
      yes but the average wage is about 25K not 100K…..
       
      350K to repay with a 100K salary would take 7 years to pay if you sunk every penny in after tax and didn’t get charged interest, so not quite 3 years….
       
      A 25 year repayment mortgage with a 50K deposit would cost you 1500 per month from net pay at 3.5% interest.
       
      A 25 year repayment on 100% of the 350K at 4.9% would cost you 2025 per month from net pay. For 25 years….Total cost 608K after tax.
       
      These interest rates are variable….
       
      http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefingsAndFactsheets/S4/SB_12-75.pdf

    88. scottish_skier says:

      The story is for people living in England. They’re being softened up for Scotland’s departure.
       
      If Scotland leaving is portrayed as a disaster for it, then people in the rUK will be less inclined to be worried about it / its effects on the rUK.
       
      What people must remember is that when Scotland becomes independent, no longer will it ‘share’ news with the UK. Quite quickly it will become like Ireland in terms of news coverage south of the border. That way people in the rUK are left with the idea that Scotland will do badly under indy with the rUK a pillar of strength, and by the time the former becomes clearly not the case, most people in the rUK won’t be reading about it any more.

    89. Boorach says:

      Och, you know there are days when it’s just grand to live in a van and not to have to worry myself into an early grave worrying about the value of my assets!
       
      Try it folks, kiss the ulcers goodbye. Trust in your four wheels and change the view from your lounge window to suit your mood.
       
      Scotland will prosper on independence… national pride will assert itself and we need no longer feel the shame and disgust I feel for living in a country which demonises it’s poor, it’s disabled and it’s elderly. 
       
      House prices may dip for a short period BUT they will soon recover as our nation finds it’s feet and moves forward into being a much, much better place to live and work. A country fit for our prodgeny and all future generations to come. Now there’s a legacy worth leaving much better than a few bricks and an insurance policy.

    90. Heather McLean says:

      “Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
       
      O/T but just by the way – cheers for this, Rod Mac. Nice work.
      https://twitter.com/blairmcdougall/status/387344216445046784
      That totally helps.”

      Exactly! That’s what people are constantly warned about on here! He wis telt!

      The NO campaign do not have a sense of humour, they do not understand anything said even in jest, they take all comments literally or out of context, and do not understyand the concept of satire either! ( They probably take BBC Scotlandshire as the gospel truth).

      Be careful what you say as it will be used against you!

    91. southernscot says:

      Thanks MajorB that sorts it, we are destined to be wage slaves.

    92. Kenny Campbell says:

      “Building more houses to reduce house prices is the last thing any house builder or lender wants.  Preventing the Local Councils from house building was all part of the Tory plan to tie all of us into a system where we had to work hard all our lives to pay interest on the borrowed money we needed to buy houses at inflated prices so the interest cash could keep rolling into the banks.”
       
      This is right on the button, in most households both partners now work. In the 50/60’s a house was achievable on a single income. We are slowly being turned into debt servicing robots to allow growth to continue. House price inflation is a bad thing, its pushed as the medicine when it is in fact the disease.

    93. Albalha says:

      @Bubbles
      You living at ******* has brought to mind my Sir James Kayzer story. In ’79/’80, while still at school, I worked nights, weekends, holidays etc at the Mansion House Hotel, near Auchterhouse, sadly no longer there.
       
      Anyway due to a problem with retaining cooks, as I remember, Sir James opted to host luncheon parties at the hotel.
       
      I was on duty during one of his luncheons and when it came to taking their pudding/sweet/dessert order, I’d to tell them we were out of the fresh berries they wanted. 
       
      He said to me, clearly playing to his audience,
       
      “Get down on your hands and knees and humbly apologise”
       
      As it was I stared in disbelief and wandered back to the kitchen.

    94. scottish_skier says:

      I’m struggling to imagine house prices plunging. 
       
      To be honest, I’d rather not see a surge but creating newly independent county will push them up in certain areas, notably the capital. After all, there will be an influx of embassies, corporate HQ’s (e.g. Coca-Cola Scotland, BMW Scotland…), public servants…

    95. Mosstrooper says:

      Hey Macart, 
      If the Major has the garden to attend to, who cleans yir windaes?
      Am sure ah could dae a great job for a reasonable amount.

    96. Dcanmore says:

      Daily Telegraph’s daily circulation figure is around 18,600. Well, there are some Tory voters in Scotland.
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-23288931
       
      Today it is house buyers and home owners, three months ago it was truck drivers and haulage companies etc etc.
      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10147762/Independent-Scottish-hauliers-to-pay-up-to-1000-to-use-UKs-roads.html

    97. Les Wilson says:

      gerry parker
      Yes Gerry, I would certainly hope so ! Pretty  sure it would be substantially smaller and easier to understand. Westminster just loves waffle !

    98. MajorBloodnok says:

      @Mosstrooper

      I get my windows done by a troupe of highly trained right-wing conspiracy-theorists.  It’s a full time job but the upside is that they don’t have time to post here and annoy Morag.

    99. Hetty says:

      I know a Tory voter who bought her big Edinburgh flat 37 years ago for 7K. It is now ‘worth’ what, more than 350k. The damp proof course she had put in was free, a Labour gov was in power at the time, she didn’t like it when I pointed this out. Her University education left her with no debt, ie no tuition fees, and I am sure she would have received a grant. She ‘worked hard’ to afford her big now very dry flat, (unlike my damp, rented one!)  but as a Tory, denies young people the chance of a job nevermind any hope of ever being able to afford a mortgage with such low wages and part time work, the only option to them.

      The right-wing are all about pandering to the rich and wealthly due to property ‘ownership’, and the greedy who do give one iota about the poor or the vulnerable.

      They will keep their wealth and walk over anyone who gets in the way, but I am sure that most people in Scotland have a much stronger moral sense of how society should function for everyone, not just the wealthy and stinking rich.

    100. pmcrek says:

      Buchanan Street Bus Station a few months ago during the two day summer we got the Telegraph were doing a promotion at the newsagents where if you bought a bottle of water you got 50p off if you accepted a free telegraph with the purchase.
       
      Hilariously, I wasnt the only person in the queue who paid full price for the water.

    101. kininvie says:

      Two wee points:

      1) Small banks. Germany has a network of small regional banks & cooperative schemes. Here’s a nice article about one such:
       
      http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/13/us-germany-smallbank-idUSBRE91C0HZ20130213
       
      2) I’m a great fan of the online social lending/borrowing idea, where banks are entirely cut out of the circle. You can either lend/borrow as an individual, lend to small businesses, or lend (on a non-profit /charitable basis) to small third-world enterprises. In all cases, the sites are arranged so there’s a direct personal connection between lender & borrower. Anyone interested should take a ramble through the following:

      http://www.zopa.com/  (personal loans)
      https://www.fundingcircle.com/homepage (loans to small businesses)
      http://www.kiva.org/ (loans to third world – my favourite)

    102. ianbrotherhood says:

      @Major-
       
      Gizzajoab, eh?

    103. Ananurhing says:

      @Bubbles
      The same as most northern European countries do already. I agree with you entirely.

    104. Indy_Scot says:

      The only reason house prices will go up in England is because the ConDem government have devised a Help to Buy scheme to allow people who cannot get a mortgage, obtain one for a house they cannot afford to ensure house prices remain artificially high.
       
      Apparently David Cameron’s government has being criticised for potentially creating a housing bubble. Their defence is that it is okay because the market is recovering from a low base.
       
      Well if it is recovering from such a low base, why can buyers not afford houses and require manipulated mortgages to get a home.
       
      Cameron must think we’re zipped up the back.

    105. Boorach says:

      @ ianbrotherhood
       
      unfortunately neither you nor I, as left wing conspiracy theorists, qualify for the major’s tory bob-a-job scheme! 🙂

    106. sionnach says:

      Well, I for one won’t be moving to Berwick. Isn’t it still (technically) at war with Russia? Prime candidate for a missile strike, if you ask me…

    107. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “The story is for people living in England. They’re being softened up for Scotland’s departure”

      Aye, that was the feeling I got from it too. “Get ready for your house price to soar when [not if] the Jocks leave!”

    108. JLT says:

      Rev,
      To be honest, if you want to store information locally (especially news clippings), and have a fear of cloud based systems not being available when you need them most, then it might be wise to have your own backup systems.

      I would probably invest in a couple of USB external Hard Drives with mirror capabilities. You just plug them into the PC via the USB port, and they act like another Hard Disk to your PC.

      As an example, here’s a link for a Western Digital Hard Drive.
       
      http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-western-digital-4tb-sentinel-dx4000-4-bay-nas-hard-drive/p1538858?cm_mmc=googlebase-extension-_-hard-drives-_-external-hard-drives-_-western-digital-4tb-sentinel-dx4000-4-bay-nas-hard-drive_1538858&utm_source=googlebase-extension&gclid=cpce6ieph7ocfvditaodj04aig
       
      At this point, I have no idea how much data you are saving on a daily basis (all these on-line news paper clippings, etc). If you are storing it on the cloud …is there someway to find out how much info you already have stored there. That will give you an indication as to what you might need if you did decide to buy external Hardware.

      One question might be …do you want to keep your most damaging / conclusive information on a local hard disk? Have it right beside you at all times, so that just in case you need that info straightaway, then all you have to do is plug in the external hard drive, and bring it up, without having to worry about re-visiting the cloud.

      You may want to still use the cloud for ALL YOUR info, but keep an external HD nearby with only your most important info on it. That way (and the best way), you have that info not only in the cloud based systems, but also on a HD which you can keep in your office, or take home with you (which is always damn handy to have if you want to work from home one day (not sure if you already work from home …but you see my point!)).

      In the IT Industry …and I can’t stress this enough. Have a Son – Father -Grandfather system when saving data. In my own house, I keep the same data 3 times over. In other words, on 3 different devices, I keep all information on my PC’s hard disk and on 2 external Hard Disks. That way, I am guaranteed to have that data on 2 out of 3 devices should 1 hard disk fail. It might be extreme to some …but I won’t be the one howling when they realise that they have lost all their information forever.

      If you need further advice, just give me a shout. Cheers

    109. Jingly Jangly says:

      I buy the Torygraph occasionally when I’m travelling by train and want a big bottle of water for the price of the paper, the paper then goes in the bin….

      Re House prices, Rising House prices are not a good thing, Houses are somewhere to stay not a pension. In a proper economy where widgets are made and exports are high, wealth is created by selling these widgets both domestically and internationally and everybody benefits.

      If an economy has nothing except the false promises of rising house prices then only one thing will happen, a big BUST. The next one in Britain will be bigger and more far reaching than the last one in 2008. The UK Govt can no longer afford to bail out the banks (or the little bit of the banks it bailed out before) For those of a short memory or are new to the site go and read the article in Moneyweek magazine called “The End of Britain”

      Its not a matter of if but when this happens, the bond markets have started allowing “Joe Blogs” invest in them for the first time, a sure sign that they want to spread the risk, By 2016 (Independence year) the Ruk’s debt interest is estimated at 64.4 Billion pounds per annum.  that is not paying down the capital,that is on interest alone, and the deficit is still  around £120 Billion per annum. With no growth in the economy that means a further 20% P.A. reduction in public services to meet their targets so that they can eventually start paying off the debt. 

      The BOE has said that interest rates will remain at .5% until 2016 however the international Bond Market is in trouble and its likely interest rates will rise,(Big trouble for the UK’s zombie economy)  Even a small increase in bond interest payments will mean a large rise in the rUK’s debt payments.  The UK total tax and other investments income  for 2012 was just under 600 Billion therefore they will be paying more than 10% of total income to service the debt. (Double the current annual Defence Bill)  Also consider that this is only on balance sheet debt and does not include other liabilities such as PPI, Public service pensions, bank bailouts etc. Quite a few Financial commentators are forecasting a Bond Market Crash, whether we are smart enough to get out of the UK before it happens remains to be seen. One thing is for sure if we vote no in 2014 it will not be Better Together but Broken Together.  

    110. Macart says:

      @Mosstrooper
       
      I have Cirque du Soleil come roond once a month. Outside panes only, I’m no made o’ money. 🙂

    111. Albalha says:

      To add an article to the points made by @jinglyjangly – comments also worth a read
       
      http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/westminster-debt-is-harming-scotlands-economy/

    112. handclapping says:

      Its not only the lack of houses is the problem. It is also that the shortage means houses that are well past their sell by date are having to continue to be used as homes. We ought to have “Weetabix” houses like that “Weetabix” school as a standard, even a prefab, that can be put up everywhere to give everybody a decent home that doesnt need a new mortgage each year to heat.
       
      Heating or eating is not living. */sarcasm*/ Thanks Westminster /*sarcasm/*

    113. HenBroon says:

      “We are slowly being turned into debt servicing robots to allow growth to continue.”

      Anyone who knows the car trade can see that. The phenomenal expansion of Arnold Clark in the UK is the proof. His purchase plans are specifically designed around the “balloon payment plan.” And when you get down to the nitty gritty it was designed for balloons. Buyers are encouraged to focus on the monthly payments and the low deposit whilst ignoring the wee letters describing the rest of the con, err deal. You are encouraged also to think that you can have a new car every two years.

      All of these things are true, but what it all means is that you are tied to Arnold Clark for the rest of time or for as long as you want to have a new car every two years. The registration plate scheme, which changes every six months is another scam to make you think you need to change your car to show how successful you are. All this feeds in to the “have it all” narrative whilst keeping the debt clock ticking for you and your family. It is essential that “hard working families,” are conditioned to accept this. Keeping up with the Joneses and keeping up with the payments in spam valley.

    114. velofello says:

      Its that economic thingy again – supply and demand. Build more houses.Increased supply should ease demand and lead to a price reduction. Reference southernscot’s post, Scotland has a very low urban landscape and so plenty of scope for housebuilds.

      It makes no difference to me should my house fall in value, I’m not selling. Better falling house prices than Scotland adopting the maniacal assisted deposit scheme being offered by Westminster. How many “hardworking families” in the North of England need a loan to buttress a required 30K deposit for a house? More like 30K would buy a house in some areas. London gets what London wants. 

      Westminster has imposed a punitive bedroom tax,now it should impose a punitive tax on private letting,squeeze and squeeze until private letting isn’t attractive.Buy-to-let property will come on the market for sale so helping the supply side. A drawback? Who owns the buy-to-let property?

      Check it out!

    115. Taranaich says:

      I watched the rammy last night with great interest, but chose not to get involved, and respecting everyone’s wishes, I won’t.
       
      But I will say that I value everyone’s comments on WoS for the precise reason that I might disagree. Sometimes I’ll correct mistakes, often times my own errors will be corrected. And while I don’t enjoy knowing that I wrote something that wasn’t correct, I appreciate that everyone here is forthcoming and frank enough to correct misconceptions. I love coming on Wings and seeing just how different some people’s points of view are, reading all the fascinating and informative information on hand, clicking all the links to even more information.
       
      I notice Morag was a bit upset last night, but if you’re reading, Morag: I, for one, always appreciate seeing you around, even if it’s grammatical pedantry. Despite never meeting you, or Rev, IanBrotherhood, Chic, Cath, Doug, Caesar!ha, Arbroath, Jiggsbro, JLT, kininvie, Jon D, Man in the Jar, or any of the other folk here, I feel like part of a real wee community. One I disagree with, one I might have a rammy with in future, but it’s something I’m proud to follow, “right wing conspiracy theorists” or not.
       
      @Rev: O/T but just by the way – cheers for this, Rod Mac. Nice work.
      https://twitter.com/blairmcdougall/status/387344216445046784
       
      Case in point, the comment thread that’s from has tons of people voicing disagreement with, and disapproval of, Rod’s statement. We should probably screenshot a few of those and send them to Blair, just so he knows that – if he couldn’t already tell after last night – there is no set agenda on this site beyond being pro-Independence and holding the media to account, and shows just what a varied group supports the ideal, from all across the spectrum.
       
      Maybe there’s something in all that “positivity” stuff, eh?

    116. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “We should probably screenshot a few of those and send them to Blair, just so he knows that – if he couldn’t already tell after last night – there is no set agenda on this site”

      I’m sure he knows that full well, and doesn’t give a shit. All he wants is stuff he can use against us and the wider independence movement (interesting that his tweet didn’t point out the source of the comment), and Rod Mac gave him that in spades.

    117. Kenny Campbell says:

      Private letting is only attractive due to ultra low interest rates.  Yield is about 7% on average. This is OK as long as you have ultra low interest rates. As soon as rates go up just 1-2% then the yield on bank deposits makes the renting with potential loss of capital no longer worth it.
       
      Many people currently private renting are doing so as they are in negative equity and have been forced to move due to job or divorce. They cannot sell the house as they don;t have the money to make up the loss. Its only going to get worse unless they can magic up another round of ‘growth’….and soon.

    118. Arbroath 1320 says:

      Sorry for being O/T but it’s sort of related, I think.
       
      I see BBC (dis)Reporting Scotland lunchtime news announced the news that the Scottish Government is to take over Prestwick airport. As was mentioned in the piece taking over Prestwick would stop the airport being turned into a housing estate. Now why would they even consider Prestwick as a possible housing estate why not a business estate, just asking!
       
      During the report mention was made of the fact that Prestwick could land Jumbo jets. Well there’s something I never knew, Prestwick can land Jumbos. I’m guessing this must one of the millions of reasons we’re better together huh? 😆
       
      Now I have not been around airports for some considerable period of time but I’m pretty certain there are other airports in Scotland that can also do the unimaginable…….land Jumbo jets that is, Edinburgh airport anyone? :D:
       
      I hope this story turns out to be true, (dis)Reporting Scotland said Nicola Sturgeon was to announce the ‘take over’ in Holyrood this afternoon. Personally I hope when the announcement is made they also announce a change of name for Prestwick. Let’s ditch the ludicrous, in my view, Glasgow Prestwick airport name and rename it Prestwick Rabbie Burns International airport. Let’s bring some pride back to the airport and Ayrshire! :P:

    119. Training Day says:

      @Arbroath
       
      Re Prestwick
       
      Oh, it’s true – but you’d think it was the doing of Labour MP Brian Donohoe given how much of the BBC article is given over to him. 
       
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-24446591
       
      He’s also managed to squeeze in a comment implying wastefulness on the part of the SG.  Well done Brian and BBC Better Together.

    120. Albalha says:

      @arbroath1320
      Done deal, even B Donohoe can’t complain.
       
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-24446591

      @Training Day, you got there first.

    121. Atypical_Scot says:

      @Arbroath 1320
       
      Burns Airport has unfortunate connotation. 

    122. Albalha says:

      @Taranaich
      Re the range of voices here, who comment, or the vast majority, who don’t, it’s, as you say, made up of all sorts. Pretty much like any normal country.

    123. desimond says:

      re Prestwick : 
      “Major money is required to develop the airport which is why I have always said it should be given for a penny to a developer willing to spend the cash.”

      Ah Labour…always thinking about whats best for the people!

    124. ianbrotherhood says:

      @Boorach-
       
      Maybe MajorB would let us do the windaes, but just on the left-wing of his lovely hoose. (Mind you, we’d have to make ourselves scarce behind hedges etc if he’s out for a stroll…)

    125. velofello says:

      Prestwick airport, essentially fog free, staging post for USA military going to Europe, freight jumbos land there and recently an enormous Russian plane landed at Prestwick. NATO exercises use Prestwick. Strategic importance the right term?

      Now I wonder how the Scottish Government will deal with the commercial side of business. Landing fees? Airport tax? Ryanair are always up for commercial advantages.Scotland might even get to export Scotch salmon to the USA from Prestwick rather than Heathrow as was recently reported here.

      Could be a win win here for astute management.

    126. Albalha says:

      @Arbroath1320
      Re jumbos and Prestwick. Just had a look around and one of the previous proposals has been it coud be adapted to accommodate the Airbus A380, not currently able to land in Scotland.

    127. Jingly Jangly says:

      Atypical_Scot
      Not any worse than “Pure Dead Brilliant”

      What about Tam 0’Shanter International and use Prestwick to build up International routes.

      Im sure O’Leary can be persuaded to re site all the Ryanair Routes he has moved to Edinburgh back to Prestwick to get the place moving again.

      I was in Cambodia a couple of years ago and there was a weekly direct flight from Siem Riep to Helsinki Finland. How come countries like Finland  have flights all over the world and we have to go to London or Amsterdam to get onward connections, it used to bug me greatly when I worked in Aberdeen to have to be at the airport at 5am to get a flight to Amsterdam, wait a couple of hours for onward connection to Houston and at about 1100am (if no delays) be flying over my house which I left over six hours previously!!!!

      Im sure that the SG has not taken this move lightly and having seen the success of Manchester which is I believe owned by a few local councils has plans to make Prestwick into a major international hub. With the Aircraft manufacturing facilities onsite it would also be handy to build Saab Gripens under licence. I have been doing some research since my last post on the subject and the Gripens whilst having same performance capability of the Typhoons are a lot cheaper to run.

    128. Bubbles says:

      @ Arbroath 1320
       
      Prestwick is unique in Scotland in being able to land 747’s. It was also one of very few airports able to handle Concorde in it’s day

    129. Albalha says:

      Has anyone wondered why when they make a post and do one return, it’s all joined up.
       
      Well it’s because you need to do two returns. I tend not to get into site housekeeping but today I’ve seen how many posts the WoS team, maybe just Stuart, have had to sort.
       
      Took me a while to catch on but now I nearly always remember to double return when I want a clear line break.

    130. Jingly Jangly says:

      Re Jumbos, or course Macrihanish could land anything including the space shuttle but its turned into an industrial estate now, I may be wrong but the only Jumbo’s that Edinburgh/glasgow  can handle are ones that are not going very far. ie not much fuel onboard.

      I remember a few years ago at Dublin for a Scotland Rugby game waiting to go through customs and a Jumbo from Edinburgh arrived full of Scottish Fans, So short haul jumbo’s maybe but not long haul for that you will need Prestwick. And if you are independent and have control of Passenger Air Duty Tax then you can abolish it (a family of four would  save about £270 on their holiday to the States)

    131. Atypical_Scot says:

      @Jingly Jangly;
      I’m getting on a plane for the third time in my life soon. T’would be great if there was an international hub in Scotland, undoubtedly. ‘Scotland International Airport’ is a good name, no explosions expected…,

    132. Linda's Back says:

      Mind set of Labour MPs exemplified by Brian  Donohoe on BBC Scotland re nationalisation of Prestwick Airport as four times he referred to “the Scottish Exec” rather than bring himself to say the Scottish government.

      Under Labour our government was just an executive implementing London’s policies but we now have some vision..

      Some months ago I recall the CEO of Prestwick saying the airport would thrive under independence but this was of course little reported.

      Part of the explanation lies in the destruction of indigenous Scottish entrepreneurship following the nationalisation of Scottish industry by Westminster governments after the war, and the transfer of their corporate HQs to London. For example, plans by Prestwick-based Scottish Airlines – then one of the biggest private airlines in the world – to create a global network were shattered when its scheduled routes were handed over to new, Heathrow-centric nationalised services.

      Calls by Scottish MPs and chambers of commerce to have local control of public industries devolved to Edinburgh were summarily rejected.

    133. Jingly Jangly says:

      Atypical_Scot
      Enjoy, miss flying all over the world, Once I left Australia on the Friday night, couple of days in NZ and Tahiti, arrived in Aberdeen at 12:30 on Thursday and left for Bolivia via Brazil at 5.00am Saturday. Happy Days..

    134. Taranaich says:

      @Rev: I’m sure he knows that full well, and doesn’t give a shit. All he wants is stuff he can use against us and the wider independence movement (interesting that his tweet didn’t point out the source of the comment), and Rod Mac gave him that in spades.
       
      By “send it to him” I was more meaning “let’s stick it on his Twitter timeline so everyone knows what’s what.” Should’ve said “they” instead. Like you, I’m pretty sure Mr McDougall is well aware this isn’t representative of all Yes voters.
       
      @Caesar!ha: Re the range of voices here, who comment, or the vast majority, who don’t, it’s, as you say, made up of all sorts. Pretty much like any normal country.
       
      🙂

    135. Atypical_Scot says:

      @Jingly Jangly
       
      I on the other hand have not acquired a fondness to flying, nor floating on water. Sometimes I wish my legs grew from my armpits so my arse was closer to the ground. 🙂 

    136. velofello says:

      @Jingly Jangly: I like your idea of building Saab Gripens under license at Prestwick.I did watch the video posted here showing Gripens landing on a road and their ease of maintenance. Way way back in time there was the Prestwick Pioneer aircraft that could take off and land on a football pitch.

    137. Robert Knight says:

      I don’t really think this designed as a scare story, it’s just a journalist running out of ideas for articles speculating wildly in order to make some money… and slanting the article to fit with the editorial angle of the paper. Good business sense.

    138. faolie says:

      Just read it the Telegraph article and this caught me spluttering into my coffee: “It’s widely believed that, if Scotland leaves the Union, taxes and the cost of living will rise north of the border.” OMG! Really? Well, I didn’t know that.
       
      Oh hang on, I see. The words ‘north of the border’ give it away. It’s been edited from “It’s widely believed in England that, if Scotland leaves the Union, taxes and the cost of living will rise north of the border.”
       
      Blethers.

    139. desimond says:

      I await the next First Ministers questions were Johann Lamont will ask how many unrecommended Cancer drugs could have been purchased instead of Prestwick Airport.

      Give it 5-10 years and see how long before Labour, Tories and Lib Dems are calling for it to be re-privatised when suddenly back in profit.

    140. Baheid says:

      They want to know now when it will re-privatised.
       
      Alex Johnstone MSP also asking if this action is legal 

    141. Boorach says:

      @ ianbrotherhood
       
      can’t see the major strolling in his grounds… now lounging in his sedan chair borne by a couple of flunkeys, that I can see! 🙂
       

    142. Boorach says:

      @Velofello
       
      Pioneer aircraft built at Prestwick? The twin pioneer was our lifeline in Borneo in the sixties with their weekly resupply of fragile goods.
       
      Also meant there was less for the RAF to drop through the roofs of our bashas from their beverleys! Nothing personal Archie but they couldn’t hit the wide open spaces hacked out of the jungle but couldn’t miss our wee huts!

    143. ianbrotherhood says:

      @Boorach –
       
      Only thing is, the Major is notorious for paying the staff not with cash, but gin and beans. Bags me the gin.

    144. CameronB says:

      Housing is both a noun and a verb.
       
      It is the shelter that we inhabit and the mechanism through which we ‘bind ourselves to the soil’ in mortgage serfdom.
       
      It is a finite commodity and a means to facilitates the introduction of vast amounts of virtual money into the financial system.
       
      Fnnn bonkers.
      Fnnn bankers.
       
      Vote Yes for a written constitution which will hopefully ensure housing is legally protected as a human right for all.

    145. Firestarter says:

      @Bubbles / Arbroath
      Small point … Glasgow regularly has 747’s through it (Virgin Atlantic) so Prestwick not unique in Scotland for “landing Jumbo’s” 🙂

    146. Angus McLellan says:

      If anyone is interested in going along to hear Lesley Riddoch talking about Blossom and the ideas in it, there is a list of events here on her blog. I’ve never been to the Pearce Institute, so that’d be two birds with one stone.

      And rUK house prices probably would rise after a Yes vote. The Mail and the Express likely have at least one journalist numerate enough to figure out that the population density had risen without Scotland (probably the fashion correspondent would be the best hope, because it surely won’t be the political editor). And if they cranked up the calculator app on their phone they’d discover that instead of being a bit more densely populated than Germany (as is the case for the UK today), rUK would be more densely populated than Japan. Panic ensues!

    147. Boorach says:

      @ ianbrotherhood
       
      You’re welcome to the gin, never been able to get the stuff past my nose! 
       
      Mind you the effect beans have on me and chip’s (my jack russell companion) superior olfactory sensitivity you’ better hae the beans as well 🙂

    148. a supporter says:

      The Daily Telegraph is irrelevant in Scotland. Its circulation is about 18,000 pd and falling. Yet it has THREE or more ‘Scottish’ editors of one sort or another. Are the Barclays Bros aware of this waste of money?

    149. Dunphail says:

      Clive Aslet anti devolution tory toff and author of “Anyone for England” “a search for british indentity” all that needs to be said
       

    150. JP says:

      FOOTNOTE, archive.is : –

      Domain:
       
      archive.is
       
      Registrant:
       
      Denis Petrov

      Address:
       
      16 Bilkova
       
      City/Municipality:
       
      Prague
       
      Postal Code:
       
      11000
       
      Country:
       
      CZ

      E-mail:
       
      isnic [at] denis [dot] biz
       
      Registered:
       
      16. May 2012
       
      Expires:
       
      16. May 2014
       
      Last change:
       
      2. October 2013



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