Any card except THAT one
Posted on
June 25, 2014 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
Sorry, readers, we’re getting addicted to these.
“Better Together” spokesman, 27 September 2013:
Letter from Danny Alexander MP to Alex Salmond, 30 Jan 2014:
The Herald, 25 June 2014:
(Our emphases in all cases.)
Of course, the Scottish press has naturally been reporting the facts (that Salmond ALWAYS said he’d only debate Darling AFTER the Commonwealth Games, and that Darling is empirically, indisputably the one who’s pulled out of the STV event in a strop despite saying he’d debate “any time”) through their own special prism:
Great work there, Scottish Sun. Really, tip-top job. Take the afternoon off. Please.
Is the herald date above wrong?
Rupert Murdoch’s gal Rebecca Brooks walked free yesterday and the SUN can now attack Scottish democracy at will, or just like the BBC etc does daily.
Was it a JoLa “astonishing”
Scottish Sun, take the rest of the year off. Pretty please!
Any excuse to get out of debating Alex Salmon, he must be so scared!
It’s all part of Salmond’s cunning plan.
The view from Foulkes Mansions (£300 a day + expenses), a London-based bastion of Scottish international socialism, given during yet another one-sided “debate” on Scottish Independence in the House of Lords yesterday –
link to theyworkforyou.com
Seems to be just a typo.Guess it’s 2014—that’s what I’ve read elsewhere—-2014.
So one would debate anytime and the other wouldn’t debate with him at all.
And of course Salmond still refuses to debate with UKIP.
Its one thing to take on Darling and another to face a real debate with somebody who is willing to raise unanswerable issues the EU doesn’t want, like the fact we would certainly lose our proportion of the UK’s rebate. Several hundred million gone, for nothing.
Is this one written by you Rev? 😉
Sun tells lie. Steps back in amazement.
I wonder if this is a fuck-up by STV. Salmond’s intention to debate Cameron in July or Darling in August was well-known. If, as has been reported, STV threatened Darling that they’d go ahead with an ’empty chair’ debate if he didn’t show in July, then discovered Salmond’s offer, then had to go and ask Darling to change – well, you can see how that would be annoying.
It really does confirm that you can’t believe ANYTHING in the MSM. Thank heavens for the blogs like this one and all the grassroots supporters. When is Levinson reporting?
Don’t feed the troll.
As ever the rotten British press decide to pander to the prejudices of their readers who do not reside in Scotland.
neil craig or what ever your called – are you one of these drug crazed trolls I keep hearing about?
No one can be that stupid to come out with such dire and idiotic comments such as yours
All we’re after is a little honesty from the media.
Sigh
The unelected anti-democratic House of Lords serial one-sided rage-fests against Salmond are in such stark contrast to the public cowardice of the Unionists, where they won’t even admit to being responsible for their own actions and even blame Alex Salmond for their refusal to engage him in a properly organised public debate.
sorry Leveson.
Sorry grouse beater, I forgot the golden rule of not feeding the trolls 🙂
It’s a non-story.
Darling detests power in the hands of Scotland. If he cannot dictate date and conditions of a debate he won’t take part. There is no shock, horror, surprise in that.
Let us debate the vital aspects of our country’s future.
Darling’s vain hissy fit isn’t one of them.
link to mobile.twitter.com
feeding the trolls
Hi Edward
There’s two – the second only posts one-line inanities.
The Herald hasn’t reported the facts either. Theyre spin is exactly the same as the Suns. The Herald has claimed that STV changed the dates on the behest of the FM after STV reported they didn’t.
Not only is Better Together writing all the headlines for the SUN and Mirror but also for the Scotsman and Herald tabloids as well.
I prefer this one,
news.stv.tv/politics/239901-yes-and-no-campaigns-mark-one-year-until-independence-referendum/
Alistair Darling, chair of Better Together, called for the “yes” campaign to provide answers about the impact of independence on areas such as jobs, pensions and public services.
“I have repeatedly challenged Alex Salmond to publicly debate these issues with me. However, he seems more interested in turning the debate on Scotland’s future into a battle between England and Scotland than he is in providing people with details. I will debate him any time, anywhere,” he said.
So it isn’t just Danny Alexander, or any one else, offering to hold his coat for him. He’s actually on record issuing the challenge.
Oh, that’s a beezer Morag. 😀
The meeja can’t keep up with events apparently.
Neil Craig
Im still trying to get my head around a UKIP supporter arguing for the merits of the EU never mind using one to make a big bold lie regarding the status of any UK treaty with the EU being inapplicable to one of only 2 signatories to the Act of Union 1707.
I should remind BT’s print friends that a lot of people no longer read newspapers anymore and if they do don’t believe everything they print either.
[…] « Any card except THAT one […]
Maybe Darling is moving house again on that date!
OT.
Business for Scotland is going to hit the No campaign hard in the next few weeks and the other side has no idea what we’ve got planned. Every time we get the message out, every time we connect with another voter, we win another convert to Yes. No one wants to wake up on the morning after and wish they’d done a little more, so let’s do everything we can to make that little difference that will win it – it’s the final push.
We’ve raised quite a lot already; we’re two thirds of the way to our target on our crowdfunder and more has been promised so the target is within reach but we need your help to get us over the winning line, we need the funds for the last days campaigning that will take us towards independence. Every single donation gets us a little closer to Yes, no matter how large or how small it makes a difference.
Business for Scotland is 100% self funding from people in business, members and donors, we get nothing from Yes Scotland or any political party and so we need your help.
Every penny we raise is focused on getting Scotland to Yes. You will be surprised and delighted to see what we are going to do with your donation.
Please go to – link to businessforscotland.us7.list-manage.com and make a contribution.
Please dig a little deeper; donate and share this on Twitter/Facebook etc.
Salmond should now agree to the debate on the 16th July, to demonstrate that our side are the more reasonable and credible alternative to the bizarre panicking of the Better-Togethers. We know that Darling does not want this confrontation and is depending on his spinners to manufacture a reason for it not to happen, so the FM must go for it, and see what other reasons the other side come up with to save Ali’s arse.
Who to believe…Alex Salmond who for 7 years in charge, has stood up for Scotland, or Better Together who for 2 years have stood up for Westminster.
No one will believe Alex Salmond ducked a fight. Strangely the only people who would suggest such a thing are the same people who call him uber-arrogant and a veracious attention-seeker!
Neil Craig….mind take wee Duggie out for a walk.
I hope no one is suggesting Darling is a coward and afraid to debate with Alex Salmond.
What could possibly go wrong?
The basis of the UK rebate is the relatively low level of farming in comparison to the rest of the EU. That means that the UK, as a whole. doesn’t get a share of subsidies in proportion to it’s contributions. And yes that does make it a form of wealth redistribution.
The point is that there’d be little justification in Scotland getting a rebate due to our having a larger proportion of our economy based on farming and we’d actually get the full amount of subsidies aimed at bringing our farms up to scratch rather than having them “shared” over the whole of the UK.
So whilst the rebate may be important to Westminster it’s really going to make little difference to Scotland if we lose it.
“Is the herald date above wrong?”
NO. *cough*
@Mike. 1.24pm
Sorry Mike,but it’s not ‘they’re’ it’s ‘their’.
The Scotsman was given pelters for making a similar mistake just a couple of days ago on Munguin.
It’s boring to have to point this out so often but here we go again.
They’re = as in ‘they are’.
There = as in ‘it’s over there’.
Their = as in ‘It’s their dog’.
@Grouse Beater says
“There’s two – the second only posts one-line inanities.”
And don’t we know it. His one liners are puerile as you say.
I ignore both when I see their names. I just scroll down without reading as it’s all drivel and not worth bothering about. Both intellectually incapacitated.
From Alex Salmonds twitter:
Even if David Cameron ducks out of 16 July the #IndyRef debate is on – just accepted STV proposal for debate with Alistair Darling on 5 Aug
–Game on—
So the 5th of August, will Alistair turn to or will he be too astonished?
The whole Bitter Together lot are gutless.
Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
“Is the herald date above wrong?”
NO. *cough*
Careful there Stu I think you might be catching my *ahem* wee cough there. 😛
That’s great news Morag from the F.M. We now have around 6 weeks to see how many “I cannae” or “I willnae” excuses we will get from Darling between now and August 5th. I wonder if he will now be moving in to 10 Downing Street to next to his dear leader for an intensive course on why we’re Better Together! 😉
@TheItalianJob
Both intellectually incapacitated.
Or even ‘intellectually incontinent.’
Erm…Alistair Darling is an MP,and Alex Salmond is First Minister.
I think its reasonable for Mr Salmond to choose the date,after all he has the slightly more demanding job!
Looks like you’ve been a busy little bee Stu. 😛
link to tinyurl.com
A plague on both your houses.*
*By this I mean both campaigns.
Prof Aliesdasbadas Tomkins stat blocking vote NO you ingrates GuardianScotland coverage again but Prof’s dropped the ” in my country Slovenia, the elders have wise old saying” bull, which is nice
link to id.theguardian.com
Classic! Really classic!
“Friends, Lords, countrymen, lend me your ears;
I come to bury Salmond not to praise him.
The evil that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interred with their bones;
So let it be with Salmond”.
Sheeeesh! Bet that speech taxed the guid Lairdie tae the vera quick.
Allow me to return the compliment : –
“Ye see yon birkie, ca’d a lord,
Wha struts, an’ stares, an’ a’ that;
Tho’ hundreds worship at his word,
He’s but a coof for a’ that:
For a’ that, an’ a’ that,
His ribband, star, an’ a’ that:
The man o’ independent mind
He looks an’ laughs at a’ that”.
And laugh I really did.
Debbie says: think its reasonable for Mr Salmond to choose the date,after all he has the slightly more demanding job!
True, but Darling doesn’t have all the answers.
He wants only his scaremongering discussed, whereas our First Minster wants to challenge the UK goverment over both its silence on vital issues, and it’s threats.
Only the UK government can explain what it means by them, and how substantial are its guarantees of more democratic powers, their extent and schedule of implementation.
Darling cannot answer any of those vital concerns. He’s a glorified message boy.
Cameron has the answers, or at least, knows the truth. He can also explain why he seeks to limit democracy for Scotland.
and there was me thinking the A stood for Alistair and now we find it stood for AnytimeAnyplace.
AnytimeAnyplace Darling sounds like 4:15 behind the bike sheds for your first ever knee tremble
That’s not strictly true Grouse. I mean no matter what question is thrown at Darling you will always get an answer…*ahem* “We will make an announcement on this subject after the next General Election.” 😛
Wee WOS badge arrived today… I declare myself officially a UK dissident and Scottish Cybernat.
Thanks Stu
@Edward says: “No one can be that stupid to come out with such dire and idiotic comments such as yours”
Auld Bob says, “Oh! Yes thery can”.
Alistair ‘Martini’ Darling – Any time, any place, anywhere.
Here’s another take on it all, “Arrogance of Anti Scottish Independence Campaign Astonishing”:
link to en.ria.ru
Lesley-Anne reminds us: “after the General Election.”
Chuckle…
been a long time since Ive heard Darling answer any question. He is in his element with statements but questions . . . well that’s another matter, I doubt he could debate with anybody.
Cameron has refused to get into the ring. Has bottled it big time. All sorts of excuses.
Darling is now realising his bluff has just been called. He is now bottling it big time. Again all sorts of excuses.
Which leaves wee Johann.
What’s she doing after the Commonwealth Games? Why doesn’t she step up and lead by example?
Can you imagine?
The Importance of Being Alastair.
Apparently and despite appearances he’s still alive –
Look where @UK_Together’s Darling sits in the Commons during #PMQs. In the back corner! #backbenchMP #indyref
link to twitter.com
I think a Nicola Sturgeon (as Yes campaign SNP) vs David Coburn (Scottish UKIP for No) would be an appropriate debate.
A question on David’s plans to get Scottish women generating more ‘British’ babies as a breakwater to immigrants could be topical. How many each woman should have, what ethnicity was acceptable for the father etc…
They could do it as part of a ‘women and independence’ special.
Saffron Dickson would rip Mr Darling a new one never mind Alex Salmond.
Mr Darling does statements and press releases; when has he ever ‘debated’ anything. And don’t say he debates with his wife about what’s for tea. He’ll get what he’s told.
Grouse Beater says:
Lesley-Anne reminds us: “after the General Election.”
Chuckle…
That was just in case any one had forgotten what the *ahem* real prize is Grouse. 😉
As we all know A/A Darling has no intention of doing the *cough* right thing for Scotland he’s only interested in *ahem* doing the right thing for himself and his bested mates. 😛
Who would win in an actual fight though? That’s the referendum question we should all be asking.
@ wingman 2020@ 2:23
Congratulations man. Will you be at the BBC demonstration on Sunday?
Ok Now i’m getting a wee bit excited .Salmond verse Darling 5th Aug. Noted for diary and Big notice up on my wall. Should be interesting but i worry about the sympathy vote going to Ali as he gets slaughtered by Wee Eck. The sight of a grown man bursting into tears and stuttering and blinking his way through the debate might be too much for some (not me. snigger)
Ordered My badges today. Does that make me an “official Cybernat” ??
And when Jola isn’t asking the same question over and over again at FMQ or scaring workers with the ole “could happen ya know” ,can we get her on as a sub if Ali cries off. Would love to see her try to wiggle her way out of jam tomorrow promises. Am sure Wee Eck has something up his sleeves for her.
Any way This referendum is fast becoming a farce for the BT/NT/UKOK whatever campaign .
A.Darling – Backbencher , Nonentity. Tory puppet.
A.Salmond – First minister , Leader of Scots Govt.
Surely Cameo – Prime minister of Uk(Scotland too!!)Leader of the UK Govt is the one who SHOULD debate?
Having a scapegoat like Darling shows the contempt of the UK govt. Sending a boy to do a mans job.
Still it should be a good laugh. (Unless your the sympathetic type)
Tick tock . Clocks running
For real ‘astonishing’ MSM bias just read the banner headline and then the first paragraph.
link to facebook.com
‘Astonishing!’
“I think it was a draw” – Bernard Ponsonby, Aug 2014.
Its apt that this is announced during World Cup time. Ive been looking at Alex Salmond as the YES star striker that they were trying to keep on the bench for the vital point of the game.
I thought BT would never take the field of play. After all if the opposition dont play, the star striker is never gonna get the golden chance to score you the Big winner.
Now Eck gets a game, okay its more Broadwood than Bernabeu but thats good enough…now pass the dubbin!
@Bigdrone
Ludicrous. The headline contradicts the first para. The headline to match the first par should read.
“Better Together campaign in row with STV over debate switch.”
Damndamndamndamndamn. The girl in the office next to mine is leaving and her leaving do is at 7.30 on 4th July. In Edinburgh, but not that close to the city centre.
Lets face it, this is outright cowardice. BT and it’s PR “Experts” know fine Darling would crumble in a debate, why?
because he never debates. Why not, because he loses the plot, which of course A.Salmond would capitalise on it big time.
BT would look stupid, Darling would look stupid, and it would cost them. So, flunk up an excuse the BBC,media et all back up BT. All to stop debate, as it is the last thing they want.
If they debate they lose, across the board. Same reason they do not turn up for debates, anywhere.
They like to shoot when they are safe only, not to be shot back at with verbal folly, no, they will not debate, if they can help it.
cowardice is the real name for it and that includes the BBC and all media outlets.
You’d get more sense from an empty chair.
OOPS!
Volley, not folly
I hope everyone annoyed at all this chicanery will also be along at BBC Pacific Quay this Sunday 29th for the protest at 2pm – no excuses for not turning up ! How about everyone e-mail or text the BBC scotland radio “news” programs in next two days asking them to come along in person or bring an interview recorder ?
Please post reminders on all friendly websites wherever you can.
so flipper Aug 5th you should write it in your dairy as that is the day of your political suicide ,and if you think posh boy shiny forehead will come running to your rescue then think again ,he would be pissing himself laughing at this if he wasnt to busy trying to dodge his way out of hiring that criminal coulsun.
You need to read this.
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
Outstanding.
I would be surprised if ‘outside events’ are not ‘managed’ to prevent a TV debate happening. Any debate would require a POSITIVE CASE, and no such beast exists. The Scottish themed media will, of course, spin events 180 degrees, as they have today.
How many folk do you reckon, think the FM is a fearty?
Here’s a better one.
link to bbc.co.uk
Whit a gift 🙂
I WOULDN’T be surprised.
Sorry folk, I thought I had the grammar worked out, but it has been such a negative campaign. 🙂
This thing with Darling is not new. The No campaign have been dodging debates with Yes for months. You just need to ask the Yes campaign in Glasgow about this. BT refused to put up speakers for a debate, and the No side was eventually represented by unofficial guests. They see the results of the debates that are taking place, eg Humza Yousaf and Lamont, and have obviously decided to co-operate a little as possible.
They have never been interested in having any kind of a debate because they do not want people to start discussing the potential of independence. That is why we have seen a concerted hate campaign by BT and their MSM buddies against Salmond in particular. They are only interested in democracy Westminster style, where the electorate often has to wait 5 years to vote in a general election, and are then expected to shut up, and let the supposed masters do the governing. This whole carry on by Darling is completely in keeping with their entire campaign.
As Flipper bottles it, his boss and fellow chicken PM Cameron gets the Brooks/Coulson judge query, why has Cameron apologised for hiring Coulson, while the Coulson trial was still in progress?
“”I don’t know whether it’s been done in ignorance or been done deliberately,” he said in a closed hearing on Tuesday after reading his comments.”
It’s like that judge has never heard of Nothanks BetterTogether. Cluck cluck
darling has been pulled out by the faceless masters of better together in london. no way do they want an overhyped, overated darling being humiliated by our first minister, a truly decent man, setting up a nice majority for a yes vote. darling has no form to suggest he is a big beast debater, he is a kidder and a sly lying deceitful self-serving individual. in my opinion, he will not at any time be allowed anywhere near the first minister. darlings handlers realise he is a poor choice.
Another thing worth bearing in mind; what is the difference in having a debate in July or August?
I can see A D coming down with acute laryngitis around 5th august
or another dose of CHICKENpox
Rev,
Have you or anyone seen what that “zoomer” Lord Robertson stated in the House of Lords, according to Andrew Nicol of the Sun ( ya ya ,I know) anyway apparently Robertson stated that “Indy is a risk to world safety should Scotland rid itselfe of nuclear weapons”
So now we in Scotland holds the WORLDS safety in our hands!!, (I think I’ve just bust my appendix laughing ).
Harris Tottle
There their, nobody likes a peddant
I just wish the SNP had been smarter with this one by not giving into BT and instead put Nicola Sturgeon up against Darling. Surely after him being reduced to a raging, blinking, twitching, frothing mess in front of millions of viewers and dragged off the stage to a secure unit, then Cameron would be forced to face AS anytime, anywhere after that?
Yes Borders has had four requests for speakers for joint debates turned down, rudely. So we went ahead and organised our own events.
Prior to the one the other day in West Linton, someone started a complaint on Facebook that the event was “unfair” because No weren’t represented, and criticised Yes for runing a Yes-only debate. (I don’t do Facebook, so this is second-hand information.) Well, we could hardly put on the leaflets that No had rudely rebuffed our efforts to arrange a balanced debate, could we?
There’s something to be said for single-sided events. They’re less likely to develop into a slanging-match I suspect. The obvious solution is for the No campaign to organise its own event for balance. It’s not hard to book a hall and invite speakers and publicise the meeting guys – I did it.
But they won’t. They just sulk in the shadows and then call “unfair” when events go on without them. Well, sod them, we had a full hall and a good debate (with undecideds and No-leaning voters attending) without them.
LOL .this is actually the real words used on BBC coverage :
The (YES) spokesperson added: “We are grateful to the ‘No’ campaign for drawing attention to the fact the prime minister is feart of debating Alex Salmond.”
Darling speaks to Lamont for any tips and pointers on how to debate Alex Salmond
Lamont to Darling – ‘dunno, a jist read from a script that am givin, as a canna understand whit its aboot anyway’
@Kev
They would have the radioactive beachbum Gordon Brown before David Cameron.
If it wasnt for Iraq, I suspected they would have tried to get Tony The Terror on board ( but could they afford him?) I reckon Labour would even let John Rabid Dug Reid “aff the leash” before allowing a Tory airtime.
O/T – A Call for your help dear Scotland
Announcing John Barrowman’s ‘You Raise Me Up’ Tour in 2015
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****LETS MAKE IT HIS LAST FULL UK TOUR PLEASE****
One thing Alex Salmond should not do, is to have the debate on the BBC. Usual reasons.
Albaman says:
Well, I guess you have not heard the threat from space the!
That is even better!
Ah, the news that the Orange Order have registered with Electoral Commission…will this mean more street-based fun?
The Glasgow City Council “More Marches for Labour votes” story was bad enough along with tales that of one of their representatives actually hold their surgeries in an Orange Hall.
Suppose its nice to see that they can all be together in the one place eh? Its just a shame its here.
It seems that nobody asked Darling if he wanted a debate with Salmond. Now that Al has been called up to the hockey it appears that he is not too keen.
Better Together are a laugh a minute, pushing the guy into a situation that he had never agreed to.
Any time, any place, anywhere.thats Darlingi
It’s not like Alan Smart to speak out on this subject.
link to en.ria.ru
I meant to speak out against his kin.
Desmond says
“There their, nobody likes a peddant”
Now thats funny. 🙂
The BBC article is surprisingly good on this, especially the last sentence. I can’t believe they allowed yes to have the last word
Hey Rev, you don’t know what I’m talking about here right? The Herald, 25 June 2013, should it not be 2014?
O/T
I see the Citizens Advice Bureau in Nairn appears to be heavily promoting Armed Forces Day.
O/T
Danny Alexander can’t even keep to a £10 shopping challenge even though ALL the primary school kids did. Overspent by £1.16 lol.
link to telegraph.co.uk
The guardian and the herald are both twisting the Stagecoach/Souter story. The guardian hasn’t opened for comments to enable corrections so the lies continue.
link to heraldscotland.com
link to theguardian.com
Lord Robertson’s speech writer in unfortunate accident.
link to youtube.com
@scottish_skier says: “I think a Nicola Sturgeon (as Yes campaign SNP) vs David Coburn (Scottish UKIP for No) would be an appropriate debate”.
Nah! UKIP has no part in a Scottish referendum. If Cameron can slope shoulders by claiming he has no vote in the referendum then UKIP have no representation as a political party within the Parliament of Scotland. They are totally irrelevant in a Scottish government context and even less in an independence debate.
sorry to go OT, but someone posted earlier, or maybe yesterday, re a YouGov survey asking about referendum/voting views and also a weird question about whether you have recently bought a tv. I have been doing ugov surveys for a while now and been non-committal about voting stance and party preference. Last time I made clear I would be voting YES definitely, and for snp if there was an election right now. I have just been given a new YouGov survey, which also asked about buying a tv in the past 12 months, and other devices also, nd where I accessed news etc, but there were no political questions at all in my survey – Just made me wonder re the tv question, if this is indeed the same survey but with declared Yessers now excluded? Take the next YouGov poll results with a large pinch of salt, folks especially if it shows YEs way behind.
@ Harris Tottie
Are you seriously picking people up for spelling mistakes? That has to be a joke or you are a serious pain in the arse. Given that many people who read this site and the comments may not be good at spelling for any number of reasons, comments akin yours can put them off from ever participating. Unless this site is solely for the grammar police then why not shut up about mistakes or at least put it across in a different way as opposed to saying it is ‘boring’ to remind people. It is not boring to come across comments like yours, it is a reminder of how arsey people can be with regards to the real ‘wee things’ in life. Rant over…
@fiona
I don’t think so. There is a bit of a tv news/print news/internet “which is best” quest going on the now (unrelated to referendum) and they probably just asked you as you’ve earned a place on their “reliable regulars” list.
So Better Together complain about the possibility of Alex Salmond hijacking the commonwealth games for his political gain, only to complain when he wants to wait until after the games to debate with them.
U KOKs!
Why doesn,t Alec call their bluff and say he will donate to a certain charity, the sum to be agreed with the other lot if either call off on the agreed date?
Just received my propaganda booklet from HM Government.
I was just about to find the Freepost return address on Wings when it occurred to me that this booklet actually could be a great help when chappin on doors.
HM Government have just given us a nicely laid out booklet with plenty of room for comments around the edges.
As every house in Scotland have been sent one, keep the booklet and take it with you as an excellent tool to help us win the argument.
What better way is there than to use the Governments own propaganda against them!
Wings article “Lies and replies” from 18th June has all the information you will need to fill in these empty margins!
Rev. Sorry that this is off topic and I’m sorry to ask again. And (before I get accused) I’m not trolling. I’d just like to know if there are any plans to do another Sensible Soccer after the referendum. Thanks.
Just watched that wosserface Roofie on the BBC telling us that in the British Armed forces they are the best trained and best equipped…..
So that whole send the cannon fodder out in IED alley in Afghanistan and Iraq in unprotected land-drovers didn’t happen???
And I must have IMAGINED the whole furore over the lack of helicopters that led to using said death wagons…
How many young men came back in bodybags or missing limbs thanks to how well equipped the British Army was…
GOD that woman makes me sick – lying piece of….
@Gordon E
I got my booklet today and it is now annotated in red ink. I will put it in my handbag so I can use it when asked. And then hand out some Aye Right leaflets.
OT Piccie from Fb
OK I get from the logo it is Team GB, but is it Better Together pulling Scotland United or vice versa? 🙂
OT Piccie from Fb
OK I get from the logo it is Team GB, but is it Better Together pulling Scotland United or vice versa? 🙂
Flipper Martini.
I like the sound of that.
Next Bond girl in the new film, “From Scotland with Love”
Don’y know why that last one double posted I only hit send once?
@GordonE
“I got my booklet today and it is now annotated in red ink. I will put it in my handbag so I can use it when asked. And then hand out some Aye Right leaflets.”
link to dropbox.com
Sorry
Thanks, Chic. Love it!
Krackerman 6.47
This piece on Reporting Scotland was a disgrace. In no way could anyone describe it as an item of news. Sheer propaganda from BTBC.
Made me resolve to be at the demo on Sunday.
I wonder what format the debate would take, whether it will be in front of a live audience or the podium debate with each allowed to cross examine. Either way Flipper is toast and they know it not even Naughtie Jim can save him.
Chic McGregor 7.11
Liked the picture Chic.
Chic McGregor says:
25 June, 2014 at 7:11 pm
Ha Ha..Love the missile!
Who let Gordy Broon out again…
link to theguardian.com
Very hard NO propaganda from Severin Carrell in a nice summer frock and wig. That guy/girl’s definitely given up any pretence of whatever the Guardian thinks its up to in Scotland.
link to archive.today
‘if this is indeed the same survey but with declared Yessers now excluded’
Don’t think so, it didn’t ask about other devices which is why asking about buying a tv seemed worthy of comment.
Also it was a very long survey mostly political, I don’t think there’d be much left in it. I’d add that it asked for postcode so there’s either the aim to work out what areas are leaning which way OR to try and get a more representative cross section of results, perhaps both. postcode was asked up front.
O/T
Troon debate by Independence Live: link to new.livestream.com
Also nice example of hypocrisy on CiF Guardian and their disappeared comments too. Guardian’s got no probs with any and every swivel eyed loony defenderising this nonsense union on the one hand but…
link to archive.today
@Jim marshall
@ Krackerman
I also watched MisReporting Scotland and their triathlon reporter Laura Bicker’s interviews with Keith Brown, Ruth Davidson and the two youngsters that want to join the forces.
Keith Brown, a veteran, answered their questions comprehensively, and came across very well indeed. Ruth, an ex-TA member, was havering as normal, the camera even showed her hands waving about (probably so we could not count the number of blinks of the eyes.) She was very proud of how much we spend on Defence and we are a big army and safer, big budget this,blah,blah. She didn’t answer the question put to her! Despite the significant differences in the standard of answers given, the NO guy did not change his view.
My point is that whilst he is entitled to be a NO voter- he was obviously sought out for broadcast balance. I reckon most undecided voters will will have formed the opinion that Keith Brown spoke like a normal human being and answered the question, while Ruth was in full political campaign mode, which is a turn off. Despite their best efforts to assist BT, the BBC’s output and continued poor quality from BT will convert some undecided voters.
@Gordon Brown
Perhaps I don’t care about a more egalitarian society, and judging from the results of you Premiership, neither do you.
What are the UK’s plan for a written constitution?
Oh yeh, I don’t think it does your credibility any good to suggest the SNP are bound to be the only party to govern iScotland.
Now away back inside before you embarrass yourself.
Read a lot of this in The Daily Record recently while on holiday in Scotland. The amount of Pro-union bias was incredible. I hope nobody believes the spin.
@IcySpark
Was looking forward to hearing the Q&A session, streaming ended! Anyone else wondering why??
Just to cheer everyone up, here is a tweet of the Better Together “grassroots” movement in action..
link to twitter.com
Good warm-up act for Darling at the mega-BTUKOKER gatherings to come…
Reggie Sadler Family, ‘Anytime, Anyplace, Anywhere’ –
link to youtube.com
@Nana Smith
wifi down.
I am waiting for the first unionist to state that he is a ‘political realist,’ meaning, the rest of us are blue sky romantics. Brown is saying that in so many words.
What they really say is, back off. We have the power. You won’t change a thing.
@cynicalHighlander
Thanks. Will be good to know if there is a ballot at the end.
Hi Alistair,
Got an email address for BBC – News?
Auld Rock
Anyone have any updates on the Troon event?
Independence Live Events Del: Duncan has contacted me saying the 4G dongle is not getting a signal! So he has switched to recording the event for upload later tonight. Apologies for the inconvenience 🙁 We also have another live event NOW in Kirkintilloch, see for the link 4 minutes ago
taken from comment.
@Nana Smith says: “Who let Gordy Broon out again…”?
Does it matter? No one believes a thing he says anymore – not even Gordon believes himself now-a-days.
Here’s an example. Around the early 1970s I was working on detached duty from Rosyth Dockyard at a well known electronics factory at the industrial estate on the old Fleet Air Arm base at Donibristle.
We found out about the radioactivity at the then new estate of Dalgety Bay and attempted to get our local MPs and councillors to do something about it. Yet Gordon denies he knew nothing about it until the latest local protests.
Looked around and found this page.
http://www.independencelive.net
o/t
musical interlude cameron
link to youtube.com
it is well worth fighting for
Glen Campbell of BBC Scotland, is said to be distraught at the loss of the “debate” to their neighbours STV.
There was a loud scream 0f NAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWW!!! from his office at Pacific Quay.
He had it all planned, Darling was going to get fitted with a wireless ear piece to coach him through those awkward questions.
And Alex Salmond was getting a special microphone with a two second delay fitted to it. The same as the one he used for the Andrew Marr interview.
Now STV have gone and stole the debate from under there noses.
See you on Sunday Glen. 2pm outside your work.
Business for Scotland just need a couple of thousand pounds to meet their video fund raising exercise.
link to indiegogo.com
Th Wee Ginger Dug bares his teeth..superb..
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
link to youtube.com
Too tough to watch
That Danny Alexander shopping story is absolutely mind boggling 🙂 not only did he massively fail, he had an assistant to help him!
AND the assistant takes the blame saying its not Danny’s fault, I take it he has assistants at the treasury as well.
A safe pair of hands!
O/T
Labour led, Renfrewshire District Council aren’t taking this Referendum thingy too serious. They have big plans for Paisley.
“and pave the way for a bid for UK City of Culture 2021”.
They have just announced plans to give Paisley a £90Million make-over.
The picture of Paisley Abbey in the link below, was a place visited by William Wallace and Robert the Bruce and is now visited by local heroes such as Councillor Terry Kelly and MP Douglas Alexander.
Oh how times have changed down Paisley way.
link to paisley.org.uk
From Munguins it seems FM has sent Flipper a letter…
Dear Alistair,
I am writing to ask if we can change the date of our debate.
As I am sure you will understand, the period of the Commonwealth Games will be extremely busy for members of the Scottish government.
There will be many Commonwealth guests in Glasgow and Edinburgh during this time including High Commissioners, heads of government, heads of state and many businessmen. As you can imagine I am hoping to have as many meetings as possible with these dignitaries in order to promote Scotland and Scottish products to them hopefully to the benefit of Scotland regardless of the outcome of the referendum.
I would be happy to rearrange the debate for after the Games.
As your organisation, Better Together and the most senior serving UK minister in Scotland have pointed out, you have indicated that you are available at any time, in any place to debate this important matter with me, I am sure that you will be able to fit a debate, after the Games, into your busy parliamentary and constituency schedules.
I look forward to your positive reply.
Kind regards
Alex
@Chic McGregor.
This one also.
link to facebook.com
If you get a chance read this. It’s brilliant
link to refractory-online.com
‘See that Danny Alexander? Aw man, ye wouldny even send him tae the shop…’
True dat.
@alexicon
Aye. About 20 minutes later. 🙁
Chic and Alexicon
Those pictures are scary but very true.
O/T – Here’s a good positive article, aimed at English readers, by Irvine Welsh in the London Evening Standard.
link to standard.co.uk
Schrodinger’s cat
😉
Seen this one?
link to facebook.com
Here’s a pretty picture…
link to youtube.com
Another Labour Lord telling the native peasants “up north” whats good for them.
This time Lord Birt one time special adviser to Tony Blair saying that a Scottish Broadcasting Service would be a disaster and we couldn’t afford the best BBC programmes………… like RTE in Ireland can purchase for £20 million per annum.
link to scotsman.com
From the Troon meeting tonight;
entry poll
Yes 209 (49%)
No 118 (28%)
Undecided 99 (23%)
Turn out 426
then they held the debate;
exit poll
Yes 270 (63%)
No 121 (28%)
Undecided 38 (9%)
Turn out 426
@Marcia –
There’s that 63%…again.
link to twitter.com
Video of the Dunfermline meeting
link to youtube.com
Kind regards
Does anybody finish a letter with ‘Unkind Regards’?
“Jist sayin’, like.”
As Ian points out – that 63% figure again, yes but it relies on each and everyone of us getting out there and expressing our enthusiasm, I don’t comment here until I’ve had a chat with someone and shifted their view. We can do this xx
Well done Paula. We WILL do this 🙂
Yes Thepnr we will – now, important matters – have you got a bus with a carpeted lavvy to transport me to Edinburgh?
Next Friday 4th July Independence Day. Another social gathering has been organised in Edinburgh at the Newsroom, Leith St.
We have a private area downstairs and things kick off around 19:30 plenty room in the upstairs bar for a wee drink beforehand if folk get there early or after work.
I had hoped to run a bus from the Dundee and Angus area as we did for the last social in Glasgow, would love to fill a few more seats. So anyone interested please let me know over in Off Topic link to wingsoverscotland.com and I can make suitable arrangements.
For an idea of costs, it will be less than £15/head even if coming from Montrose which is where I think it will start from. Once mealer confirms too 🙂
It’s a party bus and you might never get this chance again. Don’t miss it 🙂
Thepnr dear – is that the same email address as before for the bus?
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
now bleed with me
Just had a conversation with a FB friend who is a Yesser and she suggests DC is angling to be ditched. I now wonder if they are actually trying to lose us – a conversation I have had with my son on several occasions. But am at a loss to understand why in view of oil revenue and UK debt.
Will be happy to see your replies.
Talk face to face – its the only conversation that makes a difference xx
The Herald,
It now seems that Salmond v Darling will probably be shown on STV and BBC.
STV August 5th.
BBC August 12th.
link to heraldscotland.com
Apologies if this has been posted prevously.
How is the Iraq crisis affecting North Sea oil? Reminder: the UK Office for Budget Responsibility is using $100 a barrel as its reference for predicting the oil revenues until 2018-19.
So far, the markets haven’t been panicked by the capture of western Iraq by Sunni insurgents dominated by the Isis group. North Sea Brent crude jumped to a nine-month high of $115 a barrel on 19 June, after Isis seized control of Mosul. Since then it has settled back to $114. That’s roughly where it was a year ago when president Obama threatened to bomb Syria.
Why the superficial calm? One explanation is that Iraqi oil exports don’t come from the areas captured by Isis. They come from Shia-dominated regions to the south, or through Kurdish territory to Turkey. There’s even a sporting chance the Kurds – having used the impotence of the Baghdad regime to seize control of the northern Kirkuk oilfield – could increase exports.
However, that’s hardly the end of the story. According to Seth Kleinman, European head of energy research at Citigroup in London: “The market has worked itself into an extraordinary level of complacency” regarding Iraqi oil supplies. Iraq is slated to provided 60 per cent of all future increases from Opec. Lose Iraqi oil and the global energy situation will be in chaos.
Reuters, the main business news agency, reports some analysts are predicting Brent could spike at $150 if the crisis worsens. Bear in mind that Reuters’ backroom analysts crunch the very numbers for North Sea oil relied on by the UK Office for Financial Responsibility to calculate how much revenue would come to independent Scotland.
link to newsnetscotland.com
@Free at 63!
Just had a conversation with a FB friend who is a Yesser and she suggests DC is angling to be ditched.
Absolutely no chance in my opinion. You’ll have heard of the McCone Report but if you have not read it yet (and you all must) download it here now.
The rUK would have had been in real trouble without Scotland’s oil in the 1970’s and it ever more of a problem now. Find it at the link below.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Darling will be Obliterated in the First Debate. And they will have to put someone else up for the Second Debate. We should ask for Lamont. That would get the labour vote swinging to Yes.
link to newsnetscotland.com
@Marcia (10.44) –
That footage is superb. The final 10/12 mins show Willie Rennie as he really is – a very small man, well out of his depth.
It would be tragic, if it wasn’t so funny.
I doubt Darling will be obliterated. He has been a politician and cabinet minister for a long time. He can hold his own. However he is not an exciting speaker. He tends to go for the dull approach of lists and numbers. He is a verbal version Albiesalba. I am sure Salmond will have the numerical rebuttals at hand but the overall effect will be like have mogadon injected into your eyeballs. The thudding noise all over Scotland will be viewers falling off their chairs fast asleep.
@HandandShrimp
Sorry but I must disagree, I’m sure Alistair Darling might hold his own in the HOC or any any platform other than a debate on Independence.
The man has lied so many times he probably forgets his own lies. I still believe he will chicken out or have his own head handed to him on a plate.
@ Ian i totally agree what a train crash off a man poor wee wullie is ,i just watched the whole debate and at the end he was trying to play party politics with a very hostile crowd ,he was lucky the good people of Dunfermline didnt chase him out of Fife,Tommy was his usual brilliant self and dominated the debate talking lots of sense about the choice we have on the 18th.
No wonder the naysayers dont want to debate they have nothing to debate with, a sound thrashing by the yes side IMO
Anyone know what happened at Troon?
Marcia says:
25 June, 2014 at 10:32 pm
From the Troon meeting tonight;
entry poll
Yes 209 (49%)
No 118 (28%)
Undecided 99 (23%)
Turn out 426
then they held the debate;
exit poll
Yes 270 (63%)
No 121 (28%)
Undecided 38 (9%)
Turn out 426
Apologies Marcia/manandboy –
I thought the figures Marcia originally posted were for the Dunfermline meeting. I’m all mixed-up.
Sorry!
Met two strangers tonight, they were a couple on holiday in the East Neuk from Edinburgh. I’d saw them the last couple of days but we’ed never spoken.
Tonight was my opportunity to get that conversation going when I was outside having a fag at the same time as the wife.
Conversation had nothing to do with the referendum at first of course. They didn’t know me and nor I them so better to get to know each other a wee bit first.n We did.
I liked them and suspected them to be Yessers, so I asked ” what’s your view on the referendum then?”
I’m voting Yes said the husband closely followed by the wife “me too”. I shook both their hands and then we talked of nothing else other than the referendum.
However, I was a tad disappointed in how much awareness they actually had of the issues, it was pretty low. Not enough to argue with for sue, so I gave them both an Aye Right card.
Guy says “no point preaching to the convertedC” I said “Aye there is because there is wher you will find the knowledge to convinces the undecided. “Ahh says he”.
I asked if he had heard of the McCrone report, yes he had but never read it. I’ll meet them tomorrow and he will a printed copy. Good night though, I love these conversations.
Just watched Rennie, followed by Sheridan. What a car crash. And Sheridan is one hell of a rabble-rouser. I wouldn’t have him here on a bet, but in front of the right audience he’s a game-changer.
As I said above, I just heard a colleague’s leaving party is at 7.30 on 4th July, other side of Edinburgh. How long is the Wings shindig likely to last for?
Lies, falsehoods and distortions.
That sums up the press and media’s sustained attack on the integrity of a nation.
Assuming Salmond trounces Darling by sheer dedication to the cause he has adopted to see greater democracy made permanent, by his erudition, and by his honesty, does anybody here really think the press and media will present it as a glorious win for justice, reason and common sense?
@Morag Graham Kerr –
It’s great entertainment though, eh? And no doubt it has some documentary value.
I wish I had the skills to be able to capture wee segments and play them slow-motion.
The bit where Rennie stalks across the stage, as if to confront Sheridan, is hilarious. And then, when TS is up doing his bit, the close-ups of WWR scanning the audience, realising that his tea is well and truly ‘oot’?
Man alive! Desmond Morris and David Attenborough would surely vie for commentary rights – rare footage of a cornered creature, who can neither flee nor fight.
Morag – the last 3 WOS nights, I had to leave @ 11.30 for transport reasons, and there were still WOSers carousing when I left.
I should imagine the Edinburgh night will be the same, and Edinburgh’s not the big to get across. 🙂 (You could get the tram!)
‘the big’ should read ‘that big’.
TJenny says:
(You could get the tram!)
Have they got their wee pretendy tram set up and running then? 😛
Lesley-Anne – we have indeed. They look very swish and sleek and move quietly. I’ve only seen them on their trial runs but a friend’s been on a them a few times and, although apparently their is no air-con onboard, you can open the windows! I really hope they have heaters.
I did read that they were charging £8 to travel on them to the airport whilst the airport bus is only something like £5. Hmm think I fancy a wee trip to the airport now will I go by bus or will I go by tram, hmm £8…£5…£8… 😛
Sorry for O/T here but just read a tweet from Peat Worrier over on Twitter.
Does a bowler hat & an orange apron worn on an anti-independence march constitute a “uniform”? link to legislation.gov.uk … #indyref
I think this raises a rather interesting little question about our favourite sectarian Orange Order and their announcing their backing of the NO Thanks gang. I wonder if they gave serious consideration to their backing considering the fact that an awful lot of people consider the wearing of bowler hats and orange aprons and sashes to actually be a uniform. This is in direct contravention to the Public Order Act of 1936. (Thanks to Peat worrier for highlighting the Act. 😉 ) Mass arrests of members of the Orange Order anyone? 😛
Here’s the link again to the relevant Public Order Act 1936.
link to tinyurl.com
T Jenny
So, after the end of the Edinburgh Newsroom bash, I have a choice of bus or tram to get to the Airport so I can go home?
All the leaders of the European Union countries meet in Belgium today.
You can just see the BBC jouros/Glen Campbell creeping about their Foreign Ministers office’s and asking them,
“Do you think Scotland will have to re-apply for membership of the EU and if so how long will it take”.
And no doubt at least one of the Foreign Ministers will play along with their wee game.
Monarchy costs taxpayers £35.7m.
link to news.uk.msn.com
And £4Million of that was for doing up Will and Kate’s 20 (twenty) bedroom apartment.
That’s a huge “Bedroom Tax” bill there going to have to pay.
OT, but just listened to the local Inverness 5 minute slot on BBC GMS. They featured Ed Davey rabbiting on about how great the UK was for energy prices. Strangely, there was no right of reply from the good guys.
I can’t find the local bulletins online and I think it is only on the FM radio. Makes you wonder how much of this goes on across Scotland’s local BBC stations.
Morag
The Newsroom basement is ours from 7.30-10.30. After that there are options to stay in the bar upstairs or move to surrounding boozers. Alas I’m working Saturday so won’t be out too late but I’m sure we can post an update of any plan for later if you are planning for a long one. Would be great if you can make it St some point.
Next Friday team – the Newsroom on Leith Street has been selected for its proximity to Waverley.
Don’t wake up in Saturday morning and regret your decision
Its reported on the BBC website that Murdo Fraser the Tory MSP is having a fantasy moment today as he gives a speech at Glagow University calling for a Federal UK!
link to bbc.co.uk
O/T,
I am always reluctant to openly criticise the YES campaign, but can I echo what some others here have said, in that the newly re-designed (why??) YES Scotland website is utter pants. It is the most user unfriendly website I have seen in many years. The old one wasn’t perfect, but it got the job done, but this new one is utterly, utterly useless. It took some considerable effort to firstly find the news section, and I actually thought the ‘shop’ section had been permanently removed, until somebody else I know managed to find a link right at the foot of a page in small print.
Considering that many in Scotland only barely have broadband (the old style) creating a website like this overladen with video and images is just dumb. Remember the old marketing adage, ‘Keep it simple, stupid’.
We need money for campaigning, so why on earth has this been done??? What a freaking waste of money. Those responsible should be shot (metaphorically). It needs fixed FAST.
If you too want to experience the mess, here is the link;
link to yesscotland.net
Just watched the Dunfermline debate….
Tommy Sheridan “its squeaky bum time for the british establishment” quote is brilliant.
Oh dear wee wullie rennie hahahahahahahahaha……
Marian 8.42am
“Its reported on the BBC website that Murdo Fraser the Tory MSP is having a fantasy moment today as he gives a speech at Glasgow University calling for a Federal UK!”
Is Murdo Frazer actually warmongering, Ultra Unionist, Ming Campbell in disguise,
link to mingcampbell.org.uk
Labour, Lib/Dem, Tories, UKIP. They all have one thing in common. They offer Scotland utter bullshit if we vote NO(spit).
OT
The calls by Murdo for a federal UK are tantamount to the demotion of Scotland to a region of England.
It is the first step in the changes to the way money is allocated to Scotland.There will no longer be any connection to the monies raised here to the awarded amount deemed necessary to pay services i.e. a per capita share of money divided between all the “regions”.
This has to be stopped in its tracks.
@Schrodinger’s cat says:
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
now bleed with me
Great Scottish night at the Dominion in Edinburgh on Tuesday evening.
Great to see so many of the Braveheart cast wearing their YES badges.
The organisers (20th Century Fox) were having kittens beforehand that Cox, Mullan etc. were going to hijack the event for YES.
They needn’t have worried. Everybody was on their best behaviour. Peter Mullan only did a few wee sweary words.
Just received my copy of Fairy Tales by the Grim establishment. Funnily enough it was tucked inside a brochure from the local undertakers.
Anyone provide the address a return address for this fantasy.
O/T
Meanwhile, down at the BBC sports desk from Brazil, Gary Lineker is ever so grateful for that Suarez bite.
It means they don’t have to talk about how England got sent home, after they only managed to get one point out of a total of nine, with a minus two (-2) goal difference.
Better Together
Freepost
RTAU-2CRB-TELS
Glasgow
G2 4AD
I see BBC are reporting that some helpful organisation has published a database of UK government procurement contracts for 2013.
link to bbc.co.uk
The top twenty firms in the list benefited to the tune of £10.2bn of work. (which is 20% of the £50bn total split between 180,000 firms)
None of the top twenty are Scottish firms of course, but it would be interesting to know what proportion of the rest are.
oh I forgot to add
Far far Away in a distant galaxy
at the start
Nana – return Grim’s best to:-
Better Together,
Freepost RTAU-ZCRB-TELS,
5 Blythswood Square,
Glasgow,
G2 4AD
o/t – just seen the significance of their address and how appropriate. Nothing against the ladies only those pretending to have Scotland’s interests, rather than their own, at heart! Better Together sold their souls!!!
Ming Campbell makes Murdo Fraser look like an intellectual giant.
Ming the Mouth.
Heres the response I got from Morrisons about their behaviour
Good Morning Mr King,
Thanks for contacting us.
I was sorry to learn that you believe that Morrisons are supporting the Better Together campaign for the Scottish Referendum. Please accept my apologies for this.
Please rest assured that Morrisons are impartial to the Scottish Referendum. We believe that the referendum is a matter for the Scottish People.
I can confirm that we do not have staff members handing our Better Together leaflets in our stores. After speaking with the Sterling (eh?) store’s General Manager, I can confirm that the leaflets were supplements that were included in magazines(so there were only better together leaflets in the magazines then?) and were left by customers at the checkouts. The member of staff was simply collecting these up to dispose of.(pull the other one)
We know fundamentally that this is an issue for the people of Scotland alone to decide (correct), and we are not trying to sway public opinion either way.(vindaloo? three lions?) 18,000 of our colleagues live and work in Scotland and will be part of this discussion and decision. Whatever the outcome, we wish the very best for the future of Scotland, and we hope to remain an integral part.(not on this performance you’ll not,oh and by they way you vegetables are on fire.)
Thank you for shopping at Morrisons and please contact me should you require any further assistance.
Kind regards
Laura Winning
Customer Services
@goldenayr
I’d say it’s not really a demotion, more a sideways move.
Them down there already seem to see Scotland as a region of England.
In my opinion, federalism would be far superior to what we have now, but just a further unnecessary step towards indy, which is now within touching distance.
I was at the Troon debate last night. With Troon being quite an affluent and conservative town I was expecting a strong NO leaning from the audience, but to see such support for indy was fantastic (entry poll 49% YES, 28% NO, exit poll 63% YES, 28% NO)
Nana, it’s been suggested by others on this thread or the one before, that keeping the fairytale brochure as a point of reference when talking with don’t knows may be a useful tool in discussion especially on the doorstep. As every household is receiving one, it can be used to expose the lies and frame the counter argument?
Here’s the BT address if you decide to send it back though:
‘Better Together, 5 Blythswood Square, Glasgow, G2 4AD’
Crash Gordon is at it again:
link to news.stv.tv
Federal uk sounds a bit like a new,even more vague “more powers” kind of plan. This sounds like last gasp style stuff,any powers can be taken away by Westminster,so I still say Yes.
Why settle for more powers when you can run things better ourselves?
* Why settle for more powers when we can run things better ourselves?
@Bill McLean Thank you for that.
@K1 That’s a good idea although I have a small notebook with relevant facts this booklet may be useful after all.
After the referendum I can still send it back to them….
MochaChoca says:
In my opinion, federalism would be far superior to what we have now, but just a further unnecessary step towards indy, which is now within touching distance.
As you say, Independence is the way to go solve all the problems associated with London rule.
What the Libs want will never happen, for obvious reasons.
However, Brown too allegedly mentioned federalism. My suspicion is that their idea of federalism falls short even of Home Rule/FFA/DevMax which would be a clear situation – only diplomancy and defence with London. The federalists, no doubt, would want the central federal parliament to retain more power than that.
Federalism probably means Devo-inbetween.
Vote YES, consign all this to history.
Craig Murray on top form.
link to craigmurray.org.uk
There are now so many visions of what a post No landscape would look like that we are starting to enter the realms of EC Escher. Mind bending perspective and inter-connections.
We saw with the Labour blueprint that there were as many interpretations as there were Labour politicians. Brown has his own version which is actually more radical than the official Labour one and Ming and the Liberal view is as vague and as jam tomorrowish as it is possible to be. Strathclyde and the official Tory proposal is surprisingly the most robust…however, I don’t trust them to deliver. Murdo is at least blue sky thinking. A federal solution with that level of devolution would certainly attract the middle ground if it were on the ballot paper. However, it isn’t on the ballot paper and no one likely to be power is offering us a federal solution.
I think the chances of No Thanks pulling a coherent message out of that lot before the 18th Sept is near to nil. Even the Tories think the Labour proposals are mince.
Hand and Shrimp discussed post-No versions of Scotland.
You can add to that Murdo Fraser’s impending call for ‘full’ powers under a federal system.
As a long time reader of Wings,and very tentative poster, I come here to have my spirits lifted as I live in a very difficult area for yes supporters (the south west). Yesterday I went out to lunch with five friends all of whom are dyed in the wool No supporters, which always makes me feel as if I am wasting my time trying to argue the case, although it doesn’t stop me
Sometimes I feel that we are just talking to like minded folk online, although mostly I think we are winning.. We have to win this. Thanks to all for picking me up on a down day.
I take it that the Dunfermline debate was on that sort of Telly thing I don’t watch anymore? Cant find it online.
What channel so I can try and get it on catchup or whatever its called.
Murdo Fraser and UK Federation – What does it mean?
This idea is so far fetched, and is being presented by someone who is barely on the referendum stage, you have to ask the question – what is behind this ‘announcement’?
So let’s look behind it.
Murdo is the placeman for this latest PR exercise by BT courtesy of John McTernan (BT’s PR guru and go to man for sewage and general dirty tricks)
This ‘news’ is designed to maintain BT’s position as the ‘newsmaker’. The ‘newsmaker’ shows the public who it is that has the fresh ideas. The one to follow.
By constantly grabbing the headlines in this way, BT ensures that all the Yes Campaign can do is react to the BT’s agenda.
But the main idea behind this Federal UK proposal
is to make ‘undecideds’ pause and think and wonder along the lines that if the UK is going federal at some stage, then we don’t really need to bother going independent.
Thereby, the seed of doubt is sown in the minds of the electorate.
And that is the intention – to slow the migration to Yes.
@Liquid Lenny –
Here it is, courtesy of Marcia last night –
link to youtube.com
manandboy
True, but it is so patently not on offer as to be pointless. In a way it just highlights how little is on offer from BT/NT. I think that is a point we need to press home. These three parties + UKIP/Orange Order and all the associated fellow travellers of No Thanks could not agree on the time of the day much less what a post No Scotland should look like.
The problem I suppose is that very many commentators are now saying what the unionist parties are offering is ‘Devo-max’.
Now, as far as I’m aware, Devo-max is full fiscal autonomy, with only defence and foreign affairs controlled by Westminster (a bit like Carling, ‘good, but not quite good enough’ compared to independence). But this is a million miles away from what they are actually offering, and even what they are offering would take decades and would be watered down to half of bugger all, if it ever happens at all.
The problem is that plenty of the less inquisitive will hear ‘devo-max’ and think ‘isn’t that what most of us want? and it’s not so scary as indy’.
That’s what we need to counter, Murdo Fraser’s interventon just further muddies the waters of what they want seen to be on offer if we vote NO.
David Cameron is the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom and leads England, Scotland, N.Ireland and Wales therefore he should be going head to head in debate with the First Minister of any of these countries that wish to join the 204 strong independent nations ‘club’. That actually may be 209 but we won’t go into that. Say for example, Wisconsin wanted to become an independent state outwith the U.S., shouldn’t Obama in his capacity as President of the U.S. debate with the Governor of Wisconsin on why they should stay within the U.S.? I would have thought that would be a given.
If I was a No man
I’d be relying on two things
to win the vote.
Propaganda
and
Prejudice.
However, I do believe that these will be insufficient.
But what they will do is take us all to the edge
of a nervous breakdown.
From which we shall all recover instantly on the 19th !
Cheers Ian, watched a wee bit , no wonder the bitters are not keen on turning up -) Will watch the rest later.
BTW I was down in Englands green and pleasant land at the weekend, so missed reading all the comments, so this might have been talked about if not worth a read from STV Referendum section about WOS
link to archive.today
The Eck vs Flipper Debate. I fear folk may be getting their hopes up a little too much here.
Darling will not lose the argument because Darling will not engage with the argument. He will simply state the same lying rhetoric over and over “bigger better stronger”.
Any Claims, Facts and figures will not be scrutinized or evaluated, remeber who is chairing this folks. Pound to a penny that he even dares raise his glorious ‘bank bail outs’ yet again without any words from the Chair.
Sadly this will not be a game changer as Darling will ramble and Jock Public will simply faze out, exactly as BT intend, or at least hope.
The solution?…Take the gloves off. Eck has to park the Nice and Safe Yes campaign and call-out the evil that is Westminster at every turn. Ignore the question, ignore the chair, get the harsh reality in peoples minds. We need plenty of “Haud oan a sec, is that true?” reactions and I dont think playing nice guy will generate those.
As Kenny Rogers says “Sometimes you have to fight to be man”
Some factoids for the wingdroids
link to inactualfact.org.uk
I went out last night to try and gather them BT pamphlets that were posted round my way, I chapped around 30 doors and got 8 of them out of circulation.
The interesting part for me was the fact that only 2 buildings on my street received these Pamphlets, I tried up and down my road and a couple of other street’s to confirm this.
I am wondering if it is because I have Saltires, Yes and WoS materials on my windows, and this is a plot to see who posts on here that they have received them thus flushing out members and gaining their location.
I hope that I don’t sound paranoid but I am suspicious about everything just now and am on high alert, Do feel free to give me a verbal slap if this sounds mad.
I think they were delivered by the postman, who will put one through every door as he is instructed and employed to do, irrespective of saltires, Yes windaes or “no junk mail” stickers on the letterbox.
I’ve got a couple of pretty prominent Yes posters in the window and I got the pamphlet.
desimond
Alex Salmond has been labelled the best debater in the UK by a lot of commentators, so I think he will see through Ponsonby’s soft approach towards Darling and will be more aggressive than usual.
And talking about Kenny Rogers, for a minute last night at the end of the Dunfermline debate, I thought wee Wullie Rennie was going to burst into a singalongawullie when he stood up at the end and walked over to the middle of the stage holding the mic.
O.T.
Anyone else had to collect their Wings fundraiser perk from a sorting office and pay for the privilege?
No UKOK gov leaflet here in Aberdeen either, yet, and, but, so, press and journal today going still more ape shit double page mental over Islamic terror threat in and to Aberdeen. P&j crank up the Muslim fear and tension but it’s all in their BetterTogether news room. Fair enough teamGB endless war with Islam is a perfect project fear gift to far right liggers farting out this kind of garbage but its such a blatant vote no frightener.
@Bruce Wallace:
I think if they really wanted to do that, they’d have done it other ways.
Look up why Lavabit shut down for how they operate, and look up TOR for how to stop it from working.
Bob W – haven’t received mine at all yet. 🙁
Also haven’t rec’d the BT pamphlet, unless it was wrapped inside a page of cut price supermarket offers, in which case, it’s already gone straight in the bin.
@Bob W
Did the Rev forget to put a stamp on it?
caz-m says:
“And talking about Kenny Rogers, for a minute last night at the end of the Dunfermline debate, I thought wee Wullie Rennie was going to burst into a singalongawullie when he stood up at the end and walked over to the middle of the stage holding the mic.”
Brill. 🙂
I saw that too and wondered what he was at, walking around the stage with the mic.
He accused Tommy Sheridan that all the points/proposals Tommy was making, for an Independent Scotland, were not in the SG Whitepaper. Tommy put him right on that by explaining the SG Whitepaper was the basis outlined by the SG for Independence. Following Independence he stated any of his proposals would be for the people of Scotland to vote for if they thought fit.
It’s bizarre watching Wille Rennie angrily tell that debate audience how disappointed he is in them for voting yes and then his boss comes up with this. Tactically, bullshit and blustering intimidation is all they have really. What’s familiar about just one more rancid old hypocrites at vote Naw Guardian’s headline today?
link to theguardian.com
Deputy prime minister says payday loan firm has destroyed its reputation by ‘lying to people to get money’
2 BT junk mail received 2 days in a row, both inside local supermarket leaflets. I’ve marked up & made revisions to them & returned them. Freepost 🙂
Good old blatantly biased BBC, here we are a few weeks from a referendum, and NO coverage of FMQ’s on ANY channel.
Unacceptable.
Robert Louis it’s on BBC1 now.
Re: Last comment about Kenny Rogers and Wullie Rennie bursting into song at the Dunfermline debate last night.
A fitting Kenny Rogers song for Rennie to end the night on would have been,
“Coward of the County”.
Tjenny,
Ahhh the buggers moved it from BBC2 without any warning, due to some tennis rubbish that’s on in London.
@Mariaskid
Its what joining in is all about. 🙂
Every week, such hypocritical incompetence, why Johann why?
12:11:
Ms Lamont says people have been “let down by a government not interested in the NHS” but in independence, the “obsession that took them into politics in the first place”.
Just have to say, and not for the first time, I’m soo proud of oor Alec and the way he stands up for Scotland and the fact that he wipes the floor with his opponents at FMQs, is no bad either. 🙂
What is BBC TV’s excuse for cutting short coverage of FMQs again ?
They would not dare do that to Westminster leaders?
@majorbloodnok
1st class stamp on packet, RMail claimed 18p underpaid postage plus £1 service charge.
(The barstewards)
Maybe they just wanted a cut of the fundraiser.
Extra cost was about 0.2% of donation, so not a bank breaker. 🙂
Mariaskid – a very warm welcome to posting. Are you aware that we Wingers are having a night out in Edinburgh next Fri 4th July at The Newsroom, basement, in Leith Street, from @ 7.30 ish onwards? It would be lovely to welcome you into the WOS fold in person. Bring friends, Yessers, Noers, or Dinnae Kens. 🙂
@Bob W
Bob, was this the ceramic badge that you had to pay additional costs for ?
@Bob W
..was too quick on pasting…
If so, contact me on kenmcdonald1(at)btopenworld(dot)com
My Wings badge was fine but I did have to pay extra for the “Proud Cybernat” badge delivery. What seems to have happened is that two badges slipped over each other in the packet making it too thick to go through that little slot they test the size with. If the badges had been lying in a monolayer it would have been all right.
I didn’t argue because as you say it was only a small surcharge – and in my case the postmaster is a probable Yes and I don’t want to piss him off by being the awkward squad. He lets us advertise Yes events in the PO.
I think some of the fundraiser perks had more than one badge in the packet (mine had three!) so maybe that’s what happened to you.
Robert Loius ,just watched Mr Salmond making lunch of MsLamont and Ms Davidson and some poor berk from the Lib Dums
@kendo
No, the gold wings from the 2014 fundraiser. 🙂
RL – on BBBC 1
TJenny
“Just have to say, and not for the first time, I’m soo proud of oor Alec and the way he stands up for Scotland and the fact that he wipes the floor with his opponents at FMQs, is no bad either”.
By the time it has been edited by BBC Scotland, it is a completely different story. They even make Lamont and Davidson look as if they said something meaningful.
It’s all about sound bites, and I am convinced that Lamont’s questions, and Davidson’s, have “highlighted” the sound bites that BBC Scotland will use in their bulletins later on that day.
Bob, I have a suspicion there would be an Alert Reader badge in there with it, and if the two badges were lying on top of each other it would make the packet too thick for an ordinary stamp.
@morag
Can you ping me off your postal address please.. I have 002 waiting for you as previously discussed. My e-mail address is a few posts up….
@Desimond
@Sinky
@TJenny
Regarding First minister’s questions. I think that Johann is being set up to fail by her scriptwriters. That writer must know that the First Minister will reply by comparing facts and figures when she was in government. EVERY time in the last few weeks, and today she is demolished by the FM. She obviously just does not understand.
Overall FM did a superb job, but had to be reminded about the nicknames, Federal Fraser, ha ha! Mind you Ruth did a good job of being Corporal Fraser from Dad’s army…”we all doomed”
Annoyed that BBC cut it short, very disrespectful to the parliament and the people of Scotland.
@Bob W
send me your postal address too please 🙂
TheItalianJob
Tommy Sheridan is right, this vote on 18th September is about Scottish Independence, not a vote of confidence for Alex Salmond, that vote is in 2016.
OK, just rec’d the BT blurbette. But still NO wee gold wings badge. 🙂
O/T
There are still WoS ceramic badges available ( Blue-on-white ) as well as supermarket trolley coins ( which will be available early July)
Shameless Plug 🙂
link to indiegogo.com
No no no…Yes
She is Ron(a) Burgundy from Anchorman!
Happy to read anything put in front of her.
I cant wait to hear her say “F*ck You Port Glesga!” one day
No no no…Yes says: Thanks for that, I thought that it was one of those asking questions getting the row not the FM, I was finally congratulating Trisha for giving them a row, so how come they all get to call HIM names?
kendomacaroonbar
Trolley token order now in.
The wife deserves a wee gift 🙂
WHERE’S MA FLAG?
Does anybody have a clue what is happening with the 10,000 YES Saltire flags.
Still not received anything. TA!
kendomacaroonbar
How much are the Plugs?
😉
Caz-m – Mark just tweeted that “10,000 flags for yes arrive in Glasgow today, more news later”. I assume there must have been another delay but hopefully the wheels are in motion now.
My leaflet arrived this morning and my teen has rigged it with one of those “sound pods” you get in greeting cards.
Everytime you open it now you get hysterical laughter rippling out ….. I can’t stop testing it!!! The dog is NOT amused – but I am 🙂
Hours of fun for all the family!
@Elaine Colliar
Brilliant!
Everyone should do that before sending them back to Better Together. That or have a Flash Mob style book-opening in a famous library!
@caz-m
I haven’t reviewed my Flag either and I wanted it for Bannockburn on Sat! Really annoyed!
Labour frightening people to death with doom and gloom on the NHS. It’s disgraceful! Have they no shame!
on the survey, I’ve just had another ugov one asking the YES/NO question.
now I’ve been doing these surveys for over a year and only ever been asked the question once months and months ago, then twice in a week!
Things sure are hotting up.
“IRONY” has been deleted or lost from the lexicon of SLAB – along with “Fiscal Prudence” (remember her?)
also deleted from their lexicon of lies are terms like “Goodguy Blair”,”the best chancellor ever” (Brown),dodgy dossier, Iraq, Afghanistan,National Debt left only 4 years ago at an eye-watering £1.46 Trillion – and the list is long but getting longer here in Scotland.
We are witnessing another “Irony” in Scotland as SLAB “Scottish Labour” commit mass suicide when Lamont has disembowelled Sarwar before being dethroned (deflowered?)by Jim Murphy after September?
SLAB politicians who cannot possibly predict their own future have the downright duplicity to predict future failure for an Independent Scotland – from which they increasingly amputate themselves via their version of the Night of the long knives?
It worries me that every single time the polling data (recently closed to 4 x points), but every time it shifts in our direction – Salmond supplies Oxygen, new momentum to BT and Darling`s campaign. What is Salmond playing at?
Why would he want to debate the monkey(Darling) who will never hold power whilst the organ grinder (BamCam) flings bricks from behind his serried array of union jax?
There is more than one way to rig a referendum
@desimond
I’ll enclose a FREE AIR GUITAR ! 🙂
@Desimond
You will earn a FREE Air Guitar with every plug !
“Why would he want to debate the monkey(Darling)”
I would have thought it obvious, Alistair will most likely struggle to seem coherent and he’s the ‘face’ of no for most folk watching the telly. as long as Salmond resists the temptation to twist for cheap points which would seem like bulling it’s a chance to pull a lot of don’t knows over the line.
Memo police to press we know who this is aimed at shame on you no people morally bankrupt: To: News Editor
Date: 17 September 2014
Subject: Independence Referendum
In response to increased press reports and comment implying increased crime and disorder as a consequence of the Independence Referendum Brian Docherty, Chairman of the Scottish Police Federation said;
“The Police Service of Scotland and the men and women who work in it should not be used as a political football at any time and especially so in these last few hours of the referendum campaign.
As I have previously stated the referendum debate has been robust but overwhelmingly good natured.
It was inevitable that the closer we came to the 18th of September passions would increase but that does not justify the exaggerated rhetoric that is being deployed with increased frequency. Any neutral observer could be led to believe Scotland is on the verge of societal disintegration yet nothing could be further from the truth.
Scotland’s citizens are overwhelmingly law abiding and tolerant and it is preposterous to imply that by placing a cross in a box, our citizens will suddenly abandon the personal virtues and values held dear to them all.
At this time it is more important than ever that individuals be they politicians, journalists or whoever should carefully consider their words, maintain level heads and act with respect. Respect is not demonstrated by suggesting a minority of mindless idiots are representative of anything. One of the many joys of this campaign has been how it has awakened political awareness across almost every single section of society. The success enjoyed by the many should not be sullied by the actions of the few.
Police officers must be kept free from the distractions of rhetoric better suited to the playground that the political stump. If crime has been committed it will be investigated and dealt with appropriately but quite simply police officers have better things to do than officiate in spats on social media and respond to baseless speculation of the potential for disorder on and following polling day”