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Answers without words

Posted on January 02, 2016 by

We tweeted this proposition last night (the quote comes from a blog post yesterday by Scottish Labour madcase and all-round comedy relief Ian Smart):

rdfm

We thought you might enjoy some of the responses as much as we did.

If you’ve got any more, reply to the original tweet and we’ll add them in.

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    1. 02 01 16 12:45

      Answers without words | Speymouth

    166 to “Answers without words”

    1. gordoz says:

      Pretty much the same response for the name Ian Smart in connection with serious Loyalist commentary

    2. HandandShrimp says:

      Did Mr Smart have the Labour Party in mind as her possible vehicle to Bute House? I know he sees Unionist parties as pretty much interchangeable.

      The thought of Ruthie wee tank commander in charge of Scotland fills me with horror.

    3. ScotInDortmund says:

      Even if you can imagine Ms 12% as FM, who on earth would fill ministerial posts? You could wade in the unionist talent pool and not get your ankles wet.

    4. shug says:

      It is a measure of the unionist that they are the only ones not embarrassed when they talk.

      Does anyone have any thoughts or views on what is happening with the church of Scotland and church of England and their recent cooperation agreement??

    5. Macart says:

      That’s a toughie. You wouldn’t know whether to :-

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrDIQY6OlTE

      or

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyvd-zasawo

    6. paul gerard mccormack says:

      For years we took that shyster and fraud, Murphy seriously. let’s not waste any brain cells on all the other jokers. That is all they are. Feckin’ comedians. Here today, gone by lunchtime.. moved onto other gigs…

      However, I do like the response of, ‘How’s that going?’ hmmmmm….

    7. Donald Anderson says:

      labour is the footstool for the Tories un Scotland.

    8. Onwards says:

      Ruth riding up to Bute house in her ministerial tank. No thanks.

    9. jimnarlene says:

      Just read his blog.

      Is he, Ian Smart, seriously telling, what’s left of, Labour supporters in Scotland to vote Tory, just so the SNP can’t win an outright majority?

      Delusional, springs to mind.

    10. FiferJP says:

      Surprised no one put Ruth’s own quote from the Telegraph into a picture; ” “Running a … country is not for faint hearted. I don’t think I’m up to it, I don’t want it …”

      https://archive.is/ndIAs

    11. Geoff Huijer says:

      Labour doing what they do best – being the serf to the Tory master.

      Great Twitter response.

    12. Neil Anderson says:

      Here’s a response from way back. Before Ruth Davidson was even thought of.. well, maybe she’s just been thought of. /Users/neilanderson/Desktop/Ruth Davidson Response.jpg

    13. Dr Jim says:

      @jimnarlene

      I think that’s exactly what he’s doing, he’s showing Labour’s hatred of the SNP (and they’re own country) is so deep he’d rather Labour voters choose the Tories

      Says it all eh Yoonionism at any cost

    14. Lesley-Anne says:

      Is it ever so slightly possible that oor wee Mr Smart has finally let the penny drop. 😉

      I mean for yonks we have all been saying, in one form or another, that Labour are one HUGE joke and they would be better placed doing the rounds of the Comedy clubs.

      Has wee Ian finally looked under the red carpet, which is under the red flag 😉 , and found some really hilarious material? 🙂

      Did he do all of this on his own or did he require some help in the process? 😀

    15. JLT says:

      After reading Smart’s blog, I kind of had the same look on my face as the wee lassie above.

      Seriously …WTF???

      That made absolutely no sense at all. A piece that basically said ‘anyone, but the SNP!’ Even being ruled by UKIP would probably be preferable in the world of Smart. It was just a rambling moan about random things that apparently the SNP might do …or might not!

      And yet it really doesn’t matter in Mr Smart’s world, for make no bones about it, no matter what choices John Swinney or Nicola were to make, the boy Smart would still moan. Bring back tolls on the Forth Road Bridge? – Moan! Don’t bring back tolls on the Forth Road Bridge? – Moan! Debate about bringing back tolls on the Forth Road Bridge? – Moan! Don’t debate about bringing back tolls on the Forth Road Bridge? – Moan!

      I’m surprised that he didn’t blame the SNP for the constant rain we’ve had for the last two months. Ooops! Moan!

      Well …I suppose that it’s no surprise that so far, no one has bothered to comment on his article …which will probably end in a moan!

    16. Grouse Beater says:

      Some weeks back found myself and Davidson using opposite sides of a petrol pump in a central Edinburgh gas station.

      (There’s nothing more to be said.)

    17. jdman says:

      Em……no I’ll get it…… eh….em…..no sorry.

    18. Lesley-Anne says:

      I’ve just had a knock at the door.

      When I opened it there were two men standing there wearing what can only be best described as white coats. They asked me if I knew anything about an escaped patient from Carstairs mental hospital?

      I informed them I had no idea what they were talking about … especially as Carstairs was miles and miles and miles away.

      They told me that they knew that but the person they were looking for was a sleekit wee worm of a man who could worm his way into any location without anyone noticing.

      He had last been reported seen entering the back of a BBC truck heading South towards London! 😀

    19. heedtracker says:

      Christina Hendricks gets my vile separatist vote.

      “Strangely I even feel some sympathy for the “#SNPbad” school of criticism.

      I know what we are against but I have absolutely no idea what we are for.

      We are against the Council Tax freeze but will we lift it? No idea.

      We are opposed to the SNP failing to use the Calman powers but would we have used them? No idea.

      We believe Forth Bridge maintenance was underfunded but would we re-introduce tolls? No idea.

      We think the NHS needs more resources but do we support Prescription Charges? No idea.

      We oppose cutting college places and maintenance grants to fund free university education but would we introduce fees, or even bring back the Graduate Endowment? No idea.”

      Are knives out for Kez? Yes.

      They could keep ignoring Scottish independence, with all the UKOK London reigns over you Scotland region zealotry, what their online freak show displays but

      Vote No Idea party this May:D

    20. Bob Mack says:

      Mr Smart clearly has a grouse with the SNP, —as well as several with soda water before he posts.
      Idiot.

    21. ArtyHetty says:

      So the liebour unionists tell the voters to vote for anyone but the SNP. That’s good of them. They have been taking the piss for a very long time, and the people of Scotland know that now and there is no turning back.

      The spin doctors must be about to start working overtime all the way to May, the establishment will be desperate and have all kinds of tactics up their dirty, nasty sleeves.

      Periscopes to the ready.

    22. Alastair Wright says:

      I wonder if May will bring a Yoonie rubicon where they all come together in one Scottish party? After all the yoonies only have one policy / argument – that Westminster should govern Scotland and the actual policies or ideals don’t actually matter one iota.

    23. Heidstaethefiire says:

      To Macart
      Is there no wan for boak?

    24. Kennedy says:

      There is your one party state. The Grand Coalition. The Great Democratic Deceit!

      In reality it’s a Neo-con world. The Tories run everything for the benefit of the power elite, the city of London and the global corporations (the 1%). It’s nothing personal just business. If people suffer, well that’s a price they are willing to pay for their own personal gain.

      If everyone knew the truth there is no way they would get near power. So they hijack the working mans (the 90%) party, wear his clothes, then deceive the public.

      The Indyref turned the electorate on and gave them a belief that they could actually be in control of their future. Without the current establishments involvement. Thereby rendering them obsolete.

      They do not work for us (the 90%) they work for them (the 1%). They have to go.

      If Ruthless gets anywhere near Bute house more people will starve and suicide rates will go through the roof.

      Forgive the ramble I needed to get that off my chest. It’s us v them and we are fighting, collectively, for our lives as well as our democracy.

      Wingers can see that the mask has slipped. How do we convince everyone else?

    25. Thepnr says:

      They’ve had it, finished, gone, defunct and that blog from Ian Smart is the proof.

      The Labour party in Scotland is disintegrating before our very eyes. Well, want to know something I’m happy to say good riddance when it has people representing it like those of Mr not so Smart.

      Don’t let the door hit you on the arse on the way out!

    26. alexicon says:

      I think a lot of you are missing the big picture here and I don’t mean Ruthie.

      What Ian Smart is saying is that Kieza is not a credible alternative.
      More in fighting folks?

    27. @Grouse Beater

      She wasn`t filling up her mobile gun was she,cause that would have needed diesel not petrol.

      Always see Davidson as the Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson of Scotland,

      on the surface they come across as bumbling idiots but underneath they are the same Right Wing fanatics as all Tories.

    28. Lesley-Anne says:

      As we appear to be, kind of, discussing RED Tory and BLUE Tory cronyism here I think I’ll just leave this here … if I may. 😉

      https://archive.is/17j8K

    29. HandandShrimp says:

      Alexicon

      Kezia has never heard of Ian Smart…that is a fact…or something else.

    30. Jack Murphy says:

      “Answers without words”
      Here’s one—Send in the Clowns—Freddie Mercury at the piano—no words. 🙂
      Youtube: http://tinyurl.com/nlz7oz7

    31. yesindyref2 says:

      It’d be kind of handy to photoshop Ruth’s face onto this one:

      http://screenprism.com/assets/img/uploads/stranglovebombride.jpg

    32. heedtracker says:

      As we appear to be, kind of, discussing RED Tory and BLUE Tory cronyism here I think I’ll just leave this here … if I may

      Another day at the UKOK trough.

      What’s gone completely unreported BBC Scotland style, is just how hard Labour left’s been watching the SNP and Sturgeon in particular, as JC ends the careers of assorted Bomber Bliar, Crash Gordon style red toryboys.

      Will JC ever say out loud, “we watched Nic Sturgeon and Scotland and then copied all of it to a UKOK T”

      No

      “Labour is in turmoil on future reshuffle with reports suggesting Shadow Foreign Secretary Hilary Benn could lose his job
      DECEMBER 30TH, 2015 – 12:03 AM KIRSTEEN PATERSON 1 COMMENT
      LABOUR was poised for fresh in-fighting yesterday amid reports that Shadow Foreign Secretary Hilary Benn will lose his role in a reshuffle.

      Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell was questioned about the claims but failed to provide clarity, saying:”Jeremy Corbyn is the party leader. If there’s to be a reshuffle, he will announce that, I’m sure, in the coming weeks.”

    33. nodrog says:

      Perhaps a name change would be in order – drop the Ian and add – Notso ?

    34. shug says:

      Labour might well implode but the voters will not see or hear about it from the BBC and will turn out to vote for them regardless
      That is why getting the message out to non snp voters is essential
      It also has to be a soft message or they will not believe it

    35. Orri says:

      If you were paranoid you might wonder if there’s going to be more than a few constituencies where Labour simply don’t stand. A desperate ploy whereby it’s hoped that Labour supporters will vote Conservative at the local level in exchange for the reverse at the regional.

      It may be unlikely but two parties working in collusion that way might be able to game the voting system in order to secure a combined majority.

    36. Wuffing Dug says:

      January the 2nd and the Yoons are going ape shit already :).

      At this rate they’ll reach climax in about a week.

      UK labour infighting a wee bonus too.

    37. Iain More says:

      I just spilled my whisky, yah dirty!

    38. call me dave says:

      Glimpse of a possible future to come as per the Herald. 🙂

      https://archive.is/Dg634

    39. Clydebuilt says:

      Quote Notso Smart…….“One of the things that you eventually learn about democratic politics…….. Is that the only thing that really matters is elections” …… Aye people’s well being isn’t even a consideration for this senior representative of the British Labour Party in Scotland.

      He then goes on to point out that the Blue Tories have been “mainly running the country for the past 250 years” ……. So knowing this, NOTSO fought tooth and nail to keep Scotland in the Union, to be governed by the Blue Tories.

    40. arthur thomson says:

      @ArtyHetty 1.08
      @Kennedy 1.14

      Spot on.

    41. Skooshcase says:

      What an utter buffoon. The head clown, indeed, in his own Smart’s Circus of Unionist Horrors. Does his job well – makes people laugh.

    42. CameronB Brodie says:

      “Back in your box Scotland, as it is British tradition that you are lorded over by English Tories”, might have saved us the bother.

      Not a fan of his ‘Leader’, is he?

    43. Doug McG says:

      Could it be that Smartie lives in that never-never land of Edinburgh South where all political allegiances are possible and are given reality in the portly shape of Murray , the MP for Hogworts.

    44. Thepnr says:

      @Skooshcase

      Smart’s Circus LOL. Will never be the same, I used to like that.

    45. Albaman says:

      Is this fella Smart a pall of the chap who’s reported in the press as advocating/insisting that the new forth road bridge be — ” mothballed”!, I kid you not, cannot remember his name, who the hell would want to anyway, are these types of people specially bread to amuse?.

    46. Lesley-Anne says:

      Just come across this over on Facebook.

      I thought one or two, ever so slightly mad individuals ( a bit like me actually 😉 ), would be interested. 😉

      https://www.facebook.com/events/915023971880843/

    47. Albaman says:

      Regarding my last posting,
      I believe that numpty who’s advocating that the new forth bridge be —-mothballed , is standing in the forthcoming Hollyrood elections, some Edinburgh district.

    48. galamcennalath says:

      Alastair Wright says:

      “the yoonies only have one policy / argument – that Westminster should govern Scotland and the actual policies or ideals don’t actually matter”

      Well put!

      That really is the situation we have reached. Had the ‘separatists’ all gone to the back of the cupboard, and the SNP disintegrated after the ‘historic failure’ of Sept2014, the Yoonies would have returned to party politics and troughing as before.

      That’s not how things played out! The no-policies, no-ideas, no-vision BetterTogether continues!

    49. Effijy says:

      Smart by name,
      Mind Fart by nature!

      First Munchkin Ruthie Krankie- Tank Commander! lol (Never Ever!)

      What ever happened to Dippity Dug and Dim Jim’s investigation into Smart calling SNP members Nazi Scum?

      Although all 3 exchanged regularly on social media, the gruesome twosome lied about knowing him and the slander that Smart had posted to them.

      Why would we be shocked if the Red and Blue Tory Parties agreed
      to let one of their group stand against SNP?

      They have the same policies, they put Westminster First at all times, and their Scottish representatives are firstly in it for themselves, and the possibility of a nice seat in the Lords awaits those who can cheat and rape Scotland above and beyond the norm.

    50. Lesley-Anne says:

      Immigration explained in simple gumball terms.

      https://www.facebook.com/numbersusa/videos/1034230199967008/?fref=nf

    51. CameronB Brodie says:

      Not such a surprising attitude, given the grandparent’s of both Red and Blue Tory parties, sought to reform British society in such a way as to diverted revolutionary tensions, whilst also maintaining the tradition social equilibrium (i.e. the status quo). Toffs at the top, as is only proper. It’s all down to eugenics, see. 😉

      Unlike on the continent, where Marxism was much more influential and where anarchism and communism posed a seemingly greater challenge, most British socialism sought accommodation with capitalism and was reformist in character. The Fabian, Sidney Webb (1859–1947), represented an administrative type of socialism, based upon efficiency and organization.

      http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Victorianism.aspx

      British Labour – neo-colonial in outlook and crypto-facist in approach, IMHO. Anyone know if Mr. Smart is a Fabian? 🙂

      I wonder if Mr. Smart accepts the proposition that a traditionalist society needs to evolve, if it is to survive in a post-modern world?

    52. Richardinho says:

      the column itself is an eye-opener:

      The only thing in the author’s opinion that matters is winning elections(not governing well as you might think); Labour are in disarray so vote Tory.

    53. Richardinho says:

      Also note in the comments the nasty little implication that Labour should attempt to try and create and exploit sectarian differences between immigrants and native Scots. Lovely people these unionists.

    54. Lollysmum says:

      Lesley-Anne at 3.50pm
      I’d be interested in doing that. Would be good to see wingers taking part 🙂

      104 taking part so far.

    55. heedtracker says:

      Tears of a clown.

      http://labourhame.com/snpbad-is-stifling-scottish-politics/

      So you rage SNP bad! over and over and over and over and over, then complain about it.

      Red tory unionists are a crazy breed:-( or 🙂

      All depends on your UKOKism really

    56. Lesley-Anne says:

      If we had the money we would love to do it as well Lollysmum. 😀

    57. CameronB Brodie says:

      Albaman
      Said commentator has a degree in engineering, which he is rightly proud of. 😉

    58. yesindyref2 says:

      @Lesley-Anne
      Good stuff, great idea. I presume the organisers have / will talk to the police, there’s a lot of single track roads particularly both sides of Durness. My guess is the police would like people taking part to leave a gap, perhaps setting off every minute.

      They did this once with a convoy of about 20 campervans that blocked the road, with a doctor trying to get through to a patient in need. The police were not impressed, nor was the doctor!

    59. bjsalba says:

      @albaman and @cameron Brodie

      But what about contract law?

      see Peter Bell’s insight on http://www.scoop.it/t/politics-scotland Why we should mothball the Forth replacement crossing

    60. yesindyref2 says:

      @call me dave
      Settle is interesting, doesn’t seem to fit what was the Herald mould. Possibly a straight reporter!

    61. frogesque says:

      Albaman says:
      2 January, 2016 at 3:53 pm
      Regarding my last posting,
      I believe that numpty who’s advocating that the new forth bridge be —-mothballed , is standing in the forthcoming Hollyrood elections, some Edinburgh district.

      I feel dirty – but check out Labour Hame

      Bruce Whitehead – whoever he is:

      labourhame.com/why-we-should-mothball-the-forth-replacement-crossing/

    62. william wilson says:

      How did he get the name Smart ? the dumb gobshite #voteSNP

    63. heedtracker says:

      Why we should mothball the Forth replacement crossing

      This is a ridiculous thing.

      Why has red and blue tory UK.gov pumped hundreds of billions into England’s road/rail/air/sea transport infrstucture for decades?

      Because it’s all got massive economic multipliers. Sure they say, well we make the money, then hand it out to you sweaties up there but they were all UKOK crapping themselves last May GE because they knew that SNP anywhere near UK.gov could contining giant UK.gov spends like HS2 or Heathrow 3 in south of England might instead be pulled north up teamGB, into and around their Scogland region. And that’s just never going to happen in the economic UKOK world of the red and blue tory yoon, either side of the border.

    64. CameronB Brodie says:

      bjsalba
      Indeed, what a tube. At least he can be thankful that his sage advice will have a fairly limited readership. 😉

    65. Lesley-Anne says:

      I assume the organisers know what they are doing yesindyref. 😉

      I have just asked John, who I think is one of the organisers, a “village idiot” styled long winded question about this for you yesindyref. 🙂

      Here is one of the latest posts from John for anyone who is interested:

      I am getting all the scenic spots filmed by a drone, our plan is to stop at Helmsdale for half an hour and the Kyle of Tongue for an hour, the guy who owns the Kyle of Tongue hotel is putting coffee and sanwiches on for us.

      Another update gives an idea of what sort of vehicle is going:

      62 cars
      1 horse box
      5 Campervans
      7 Motorbikes
      180 people,
      There are also 46 passenger spaces available for those who don’t drive or don’t have a car.

      Before anyone asks … I have absolutely NO idea about what the horsebox thingy is all about! 😀

    66. cearc says:

      L-A,

      That looks fun but a hell of a lot of driving.

      Might join it north of Ullapool on the second day. They don’t say anything about accommodation for the second day though.

    67. Haggis Hunter says:

      Ian Smart does so much to advance the case for Scottish Nationhood, poor bitter twisted hate filled fool.

    68. jdman says:

      Well we can’t accuse him of not being consistent
      https://twitter.com/ianssmart/status/331137923791589376

    69. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Here’s the ‘Smarter’ brother, with Sheena Wellington, at the launch of the ‘Spirit Of Independence’ in August, 2014.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C4To2I5C_A

    70. Lesley-Anne says:

      I agree Cearc it looks like an EPIC road trip. 🙂

      We are actually, believe it or not, giving serious thought to doing this. Fortunately there are a few month’s to go so we can start saving our pennies.

      Provided there is ample wheelchair access and dogs are accepted at overnight accommodation and we have enough “pennies” saved up then you may well find a Jeep Grand Cherokee stuck somewhere in the mix! 😀

    71. call me dave says:

      @Brian Doonthetoon

      Thanks for that link. A nice rendition of Caledonia indeed.

    72. Taranaich says:

      I would question whether it’s against Other Party rules to openly criticise your leader in Scotland to the point where you actually state their inadequacy as potential leader, but then I look south to see what they’re saying about Corbyn. Evidently it’s perfectly alright to basically call your leader useless and that the opposition would be a better bet. Why doesn’t he just join the Blues then?

      (Am also fuming someone else used a Bill Bailey gif, but all I could think of was THE DEVASTATOR)

    73. joe macfarlane says:

      If the tories and labour in Scotland join together to form one party to try and defeat SNP would they be called labatories, still full of shine

    74. Robert Peffers says:

      @shug says: 2 January, 2016 at 12:17 pm:

      ” … Does anyone have any thoughts or views on what is happening with the church of Scotland and church of England and their recent cooperation agreement??”

      Yes Shug, I most certainly do. In 1688 the English Parliament had their glorious revolution. In which they deposed their monarch, King James II of England.

      Legally at that time the Kingdom of England was composed of three countries. King James II was thus also Monarch of Wales, (annexed by the English Kingdom in 1284, (Statute of Rhuddlan). He was also monarch of all Ireland, (annexed by the Kingdom of England in 1542, (The Crown of Ireland Act). However he was also, as James the Seventh, Monarch of the still legally independent Kingdom of Scotland and the English Parliament deposing him could not legally depose him as King of Scots. So the correct legal situation was that, in the British Isles, there were those two independent kingdoms but also the three Crown Protectorates that were not parts of either Kingdom.

      So the English Parliament just assumed they had sovereignty over Scotland and they had also deposed James as the King of Scots. Many Scots, correctly, thought otherwise and thus began the Jacobite Uprisings as the Scots fought to retain their own royal house. England imported King Billy & Queen Mary range. Which, of course, they were entitled to do but not entitled to force them upon the still independent Scots. The English still refer to the Jacobite’s as rebels but the Scots could not rebel against a monarch not their own.

      Significantly the English were still killing Scots as rebels almost 40 years after the forced Treaty of Union.

      Now to the whole point of why I’m quoting old history.

      The Treaty and both Acts of Union is composed of Legally Binding, “Articles of Union”, each of which is a stand alone legal contract.

      The important one in this context is the second Article of Union : –


      Article 2 (succession to the throne)

      That the Succession to the Monarchy of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and of the Dominions thereunto belonging after Her Most Sacred Majesty, and in default of Issue of Her Majesty be, remain and continue to the Most Excellent Princess Sophia Electoress and Dutchess Dowager of Hanover, and the Heirs of Her body, being Protestants, upon whom the Crown of England is settled by an Act of Parliament made in England in the twelth year of the Reign of His late Majesty King William the Third entituled An Act for the further Limitation of the Crown and better securing the Rights and Liberties of the Subject;

      And that all Papists and persons marrying Papists, shall be excluded from and forever incapable to inherit possess or enjoy the Imperial Crown of Great Britain, and the Dominions thereunto belonging or any part thereof; And in every such case the Crown and Government shall from time to time descend to, and be enjoyed by such person being a Protestant as should have inherited and enjoyed the same, in case such Papists or person marrying a Papist was naturally dead, according to the provision for the Descent of the Crown of England, made by another Act of Parliament in England in the first year of the Reign of their late Majesties King William and Queen Mary entituled an Act declaring the Rights and Liberties of the Subject, and settling the Succession of the Crown.

      What we see there is the Protestant Churches of Scotland and England getting together to agree to prevent the Roman Catholic Stewarts, or their heirs from ever again ruling in either Scotland or England. In fact it really was little to do with religion but of the new English Monarchy taking over Scotland.

      Note that the Present Secretary of State for Scotland said this, “The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as The United Kingdom”.

      They could not defeat the Scots by wars so they did so by subterfuge and they still claim today are sovereign over Scotland

    75. Lollysmum says:

      I’m also seriously considering it.

      They’ve already consulted with Police. As I understand it, camping is the accommodation :-). I’ve already checked that I can borrow my daughter’s camping gear.

      Should be fun.

    76. Skooshcase says:

      Sorry, a wee O/T

      This may well have been mentioned BTL the SNPBAD article the other day, but, whatever, it’s still worth another airing.

      G.A. Ponsonby, writing of the media:

      “But the truth is Scotland isn’t being damaged by a ‘One Party State’. It is in fact suffering due to a ‘One Media State’. There is a lack of plurality. Aside from The National, there is no national newspaper currently backing the SNP or independence. It is why the term ‘SNP Bad’ has taken hold.”

      “a ‘One Media State'”… That’s good. That’s very good!

      http://newsnet.scot/?p=116144

    77. yesindyref2 says:

      @LA
      Sounds good, I might be up and around about then. After Inverness, might be a good idea to fuel up in Wick, that’s where I do it at the fuel station on the right at the lights before you go down to the roundabout and then bridge and town centre. It’s cheap for some reason.

    78. kininvie says:

      @robert peffers 7.39pm

      Robert, that’s a wee bit simplistic, and ignores the meeting of the Convention of estates 1689, which offered the Scottish crown to William & Mary. James VII as Scottish monarch, was not deposed by the English, nor did the Convention argue that he had abdicated. Instead, they argued that he had forfeited the throne through misgovernance.

      That decision actually reinforced the constitutional position established by the Declaration of Arbroath, that the king ruled on the sufferance of the people, and could be deposed by them. You can view it as a further affirmation of the difference in sovereignty between Scotland and England.

      It’s fairly clear that the Convention of 1689 was dominated by Presbyterian interests, who were certainly not prepared to tolerate a Catholic king, but that does not negate the point that James was deposed by a legal body representing the Scottish people, and not by the English.

      It is therefore also true that in a legal sense the Jacobites were just as much ‘rebels’ in Scotland as they were in England.

    79. Iain says:

      I’m a little bit pissed, but reading my brother’s and sisters in the wings movement inspires me to be think that we will be independent and free from this terrible union sooner than you think. There is no turning back to the bad old days of a one party Labour state, we will not go back in our boxes. The UK is finished, they sealed their fate, the only way is down to an normal European middle ranking state. Scotland is fed up providing the money and cannon fodder for their futile foreign war’s, which we have a knack of losing. So just think it’s down to us. We can win our freedom through our own hard work.

    80. Kininvie says:

      How not to encourage a grass roots movement:

      Down south, it appears that Momentum is falling to bits as the Labour party sends in the heavies. Nothing we haven’t seen before. Let’s take it as a warning all the same…

      http://momentumleak.tumblr.com/

    81. Dr Jim says:

      If we put the new bridge back in it’s box unused and unplayed with we’ll be able to sell it for a profit in the future on one of those Bargainy Hunty Shows I’m sure I’ve got a Star Wars thingy as well

      That’s a really clever idea from Labour there
      Cannae fault them fur brains eh

    82. ArtyHetty says:

      Re; Arthur Thompson@2.54pm

      Aw Thank you Arthur.

      Re; Orri@2.18

      Ohh, that idea of the pretendy for the peeple and other right wing unionists, conniving and really working as one, (urgh) to teach their aim of ousting the SNP no matter what, is just so scary, gives me the heeby geebys.

      But you are right and we should take nothing at all for granted, I will be out leafletting again very soon, when the bugs take a hike!

    83. Wulls says:

      if Ian Smart says the sky is blue most of Scotland would open a window and check 🙂
      However as part of the “system” when he says Kezia is not a credible alternative what we can deduce is he is lining up someone who he considers can be.
      Ruthie will never be in power but it is credible she will lead the biggest opposition party.
      Unthinkable a few short years ago.

    84. ArtyHetty says:

      Reach, not teach of course, re my previous comment. :))
      Maybe preach would have sufficed!

    85. CameronB Brodie says:

      Re. the Acts of Union, the monarchy, state churches and all that jazz, here’s what the “The Oxford Companion to British History” (2002), has to say on the matter.

      The English government was driven to seek a union when in 1705, to try to extract economic concessions, the Scottish Parliament passed an act allowing Scotland to choose a successor to the Scottish crown on Anne’s death, putting the prospect of the Hanoverian succession in jeopardy. The articles of union negotiated by the commissioners formed the basis of the Acts passed by both the English and Scottish Parliaments.

      The unitary state of Great Britain was established on 12 May 1707 with Anne as queen, and the succession guaranteed in the house of Hanover. The Scottish Parliament was abolished, and Scottish representation in the British parliament consisted of 45 MPs and 16 representative peers (the numbers based on the respective sizes of the two economies). Free trade between North Britain (Scotland) and South Britain (England) was established, and England’s colonies were open to the Scots on an equal footing. The Scots retained their own legal system (though the House of Lords soon established its position as the highest court of appeal from the Scottish courts), as well as their own Privy Council (this, however, was abolished in 1708). The established churches were to remain the same: Anglican in England and presbyterian in Scotland….

      http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Acts_of_Union.aspx

    86. ArtyHetty says:

      Re; Jo Macfarlane@7.29

      Did you mean to say, ‘still full of shine”? Just one letter and the meaning could change in an instant.
      🙂

    87. Free Scotland says:

      Ian not-so Smart, championing the cause of Ruthie Tank commander – Reminds me of how Johann Lamont and other red tories cheered when David Coburn became Scotland’s first UKIP MEP.

    88. CameronB Brodie says:

      Here’s what the Church of England are saying about things (my emphasis).

      “Our hope is that joint affirmation by our two churches of the Columba Declaration would:

      Affirm and strengthen our relationship at a time when it is likely to be particularly critical in the life of the United Kingdom;

      Provide an effective framework for coordinating present partnership activities and for fostering new initiatives;

      Enable us to speak and act together more effectively in the face of the missionary challenges of our generation.”

      https://www.churchofengland.org/media-centre/news/2015/12/the-church-of-scotland-and-the-church-of-england-reach-an-historic-agreement.aspx

      Let’s just say they appear to be aware the future of UKOK plc. is on a shooglie peg.

      All throughout pre-industrial history, its always been the people struggling against the oppression of landlords, lawyers and the fucking church. These ‘blighters’ have now been joined by industrial moguls and media barons. The trouble they face is, Scots don’t appear interested in what they are saying.

      I wondered why the Church of Scotland allowed Whitehall to challenge the existence of Scotland, without express deep alarm. They appear to support the Union. Who’d a guessed?

      Or have I picked up the wrong end of the thread?

    89. weetroot says:

      Don,t condemn poor Kez, she did appear on Uni challenge and got the correct answer regarding a question about Oor Willie of Sunday Post fame ,what more do want from a Scottish Labour leader – common sense!!!
      Remember Labour MSPs not reknowend for knowing how the voters live.

    90. weetroot says:

      Srry for the spelling error @ 9.44pm

    91. weetroot says:

      oops did it again – no more Jura malt good night all – maybe

    92. Graham MacLure says:

      It’s been said more eloquently than I ever could:

      O wad some Power the giftie gie us
      To see oursels as ithers see us!
      It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
      An’ foolish notion:

    93. Chic McGregor says:

      Response to the idea from a couple of guys who met her when she was over doing an anti-indy deal with the Spanish right.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrHkLv2414o

    94. Chic McGregor says:

      Err allegedly.

    95. schrodingers cat says:

      labour really are in melt down, any delusions they had about their place in Scotland have evaporated. they are staring at another hammering in may, followed perhaps by an eu ref where they will again share both in and out platforms with the tories, which I still think will be an in vote, followed by another hammering in council elections.

      at some point, what remains of labour in Scotland, with no power, or money and few representatives and supporters, will need to decided whether they are labour or unionists. a Scottish unionist party is now inevitable. joining with the tories is unlikely to lose them any more support in Scotland.

      the tweets and greetin’ on social media is just this realisation setting in.

      re- mags curran….I bet she knows who alan grogan is now,

    96. Bob Mack says:

      O/t On a day of slaughter in Saudi Arabia,it is worth remembering that Britain nominated them to take up the Chair of Human Rights Comm That alone is enough reason to leave this bloody union.

    97. Rock says:

      Ruth Davidson is the most disgraceful and dishonest politician in Scotland, in my view.

      Ian Smart is preparing the ground for the formation of United Labour and Tory Party of Scotland.

    98. Marcia says:

      Happy New year to you all. First front page of Sunday Herald in 2016:

      https://twitter.com/newsundayherald/status/683407978876289024

    99. shug says:

      Robert Peffers says:
      2 January, 2016 at 7:39 pm

      @shug says: 2 January, 2016 at 12:17 pm:

      all well and good but what is the deal between the Church of Scotland and England about and what are they planning

      Is the church of Scotland planning to sell out in some way come a second referendum. I know it will be discussed at the general assembly but will anyone there speak up for Scotland or are all members now unionists of the worst variety that know their place

    100. Dr Jim says:

      You can just imagine Ruthy Tank Commander coming in second and getting to ask the most questions at FMQs

      Her chist wid be puffed richt oot bigger than Oooh Ooops!

      She comes across unpleasant and she doesn’t disappoint coz she is (Really Defo Fact) N Ahm no Kiddin, Bliddy Nightmare ae a wummin

      Future Ermine Wearer (She’ll look like a wee diddy man/wummin)

    101. Thepnr says:

      @Marcia

      Thanks for the front page preview of tomorrows Sunday Herald.

      It’s starting to feel like the referendum all over again.

      Ian Smart, John McTernan, bah. Get right intae thum.

    102. Legerwood says:

      Robert Peffers @7.39 pm

      But George the First was a Stewart on his mother’s side. He was the great-grandson of James VI and I.

      George’s mother, Sophia Duches of Hanover was granddaughter of James VI and I and as a Protestant and a Stewart was heiress presumptive to Queen Anne but died shortly before Anne leaving her son as heir.

      There were Stewart’s who had a better claim but they were Catholics and thus ruled out. I believe the Bill of Rights and Claim of Rights passed in the 1680s by the respective Parliaments of England and Scotland ruled out a Catholic succession.

      But while George the First was the first king of the House of Hanover he was still a Stewart on his mother’s side and as such all the monarchs from James VI and I have been descendants of Mary, Queen of Scots. Something that the English historians like to gloss over.

      George was not chosen just because he was a Protestant, the Stewart connection was also important but rarely if ever mentioned.

    103. Molly says:

      Shug there was an interview on BBC Scotland. The Columba Declaration is supposed to be about working with what the two have in common. As the ‘ established Churches of each nation ‘( their words not mine) they feel they can do something or other to support their work.

      Now considering one Church has 26 Bishops, a vicar appear in every other episode of Midsummer Murders or is that Morse and a portfolio and contacts direct to both Govt and HRH while the other is losing parishners,sharing a minister between several churches , I’m not sure how that will work out.

      Plus there are so many faiths now that might not attend those ‘ established’ churches, call me cynical but I think clutching at straws about covers it , on both sides.

      Yours an ex parishner

    104. Effijy says:

      First Munchkin Ruthie Krankie- Tank Commander? Never Ever!

    105. Polscot says:

      O/T – on the State Broadcaster Radio 4 channel at 13:10 today (Saturday 2nd Jan) there was programme called “Correspondents Look Ahead” with four of their “B” list correspondents giving their views on what will happen in 2016. The chat was led by Owen Bennett Jones and one of the other correspondents was Jon Sopel. Mr Sopel offered his views on a Brexit referendum in 2016, and stated:

      “If it is a very, very close vote, and I spent years covering UK politics, that the Conservative Party will continue to tear itself apart over this issue. If Cameron could win by sorta 65% say we stay in, 35% say, eh, we should go out that’s a very comfortable victory and that should take the issue off the table. Maybe the anti-Europeans will reluctantly have to accept that they have been defeated and this issue has gone for another generation. If it is much tighter than that, I kinda foresee that the issue will just carry on debilitating kindof the Conservative Party and affecting British politics and it’s relations with the EU.”

      So there we have it. According to the BBC, if, in a referendum, the margin for victory is anything less than 30%, then the proponents on the losing side do not have to accept that the issue has been defeated for a generation.

      I do wonder what Brillo will make of this latest BBC directive?

    106. Robert Peffers says:

      @kininvie says: 2 January, 2016 at 8:06 pm:

      “Robert, that’s a wee bit simplistic, and ignores the meeting of the Convention of estates 1689, which offered the Scottish crown to William & Mary. James VII as Scottish monarch, was not deposed by the English, nor did the Convention argue that he had abdicated. Instead, they argued that he had forfeited the throne through misgovernance.”

      Perhaps it is simplistic but then again so is imagining that the Southern Establishment were NOT at it back then too. After all we Know that William Paterson, (The London Scot who began the fund to bail out the English parliament/monarchy and which led to the formation of the Bank of England).

      The same William Paterson, who along with his buddy, The English Agent, Daniel Defoe, were in Edinburgh setting up the Darien Expedition and Defoe was sending reports back to Westminster of how he had the ear of the Scottish Parliamentarians.

      If you fondly believe the several factions involved were not up to the equivalents of todays underhanded and dirty tactics then you are the one being rather over simplistic.

      Our entire Scottish history is laced through with turncoats, and Scots born Unionist who sold Scotland’s people down the river for personal gain and they were mainly drawn from the Scots aristocracy, landowners and clan chieftains.

      I haven’t got a religious bone in my body, Kininvie. I thus have no religious axe to grind. A very wise man described it as, “Religion being the opiate of the masses”, and history is laced through with leaders using religion. It is certain religion being guilty of having killed more innocent people than any other force on Earth.

      You will note that David Cameron has said he regularly ask his God for help in making decisions. As have just about every USAsian president who led the USA into wars. Thing is I very much doubt God, any God, has had very much to do with Cameron’s decisions

      My personal policy on history is that if there is no real evidence to confirm it then it probably is lies.

      There is no doubt that Defoe was an active English undercover agent and was a friend and colleague of Paterson’s.

      Paterson himself was quite obviously working for the benefit of Westminster before becoming involved in the Darien Expedition.

    107. Robert Peffers says:

      @shug says: 2 January, 2016 at 10:38 pm:

      ” … all well and good but what is the deal between the Church of Scotland and England about and what are they planning”

      Sorry Shug, I may be misleading you. I have, for many years, held the view that, “The Establishment”, have been around in South Britain since at least Roman Times.

      The Establishment is composed of the Royals, Aristocracy, Unionist Political parties, High ranking military of the navy, army, air force and security services. It includes the Church Lords, the law lords and the media owners and is funded by the financial sector of, “The City”. The Education high heads are in there too.

      The political party in-fighting is a sham. When the Establishment is under threat we can plainly see them all close ranks against the people. See how easily the Unionist parties can form coalitions one with the other.

      The perception of the Blue/Red/Yellow Tories is not in fact an illusion. Their collective blind hatred of the independence movement in general and the SNP in particular only serves to expose them all as just different branches of the Ancient British Establishment.

      Thus the several Christian Churches in the UK are no exception – different names – same objective.

    108. Davy says:

      I believe this concerns two points:

      1. The article is pish because the numpty writing it is pished.

      2. The numpty writing it, thinks it will get him on the honours list.

    109. silver19 says:

      OT: Have a laugh at this BUM story , That the SNP ruined Hogmanay:-
      http://www.capx.co/the-snp-has-even-managed-to-ruin-hogmanay/

    110. Inverclyder says:

      silver19 says:
      3 January, 2016 at 1:23 am
      OT: Have a laugh at this BUM story , That the SNP ruined Hogmanay:-
      http://www.capx.co/the-snp-has-even-managed-to-ruin-hogmanay/

      After reading that you can just imagine the lonely Yoon sitting there watching their black and white 14″ TV by candlelight, bare floorboards with a single threadbare rug and nicotine stained wallpaper peeling.

      Dusty old Coronation picture of Elizabeth Windsor hanging at an angle while sipping slowly on his carefully measured 25ml of the cheapest whisky with a lot of water, single bar burning on the electric fire and taking notes with his notepad and pencil.

      Just too mean to get up and change the channel but prefers to sit there infuriated that the SNP have ruined Hogmanay.

    111. Chic McGregor says:

      Bob Peffers and others.
      Henry VIII regarded Scotland as being rightly his, as attested by the ‘rough wooing’.

      The Reformation in England was seen as primarily one of political expediency. Unlike everywhere else there was no attempt at any kind of democratisation of the church. The only real change in the structure in England was who the head of the church was, the hierarchical structure of archbishops, bishops, mass, confessions etc. remained intact.

      The Catholic church could not accommodate Henry’s predilection for divorce and remarrying but other than that, they were quite at one with the general structure.

      In Scotland, Reformation was, as elsewhere in Europe, seen primarily as a chance to democratise what had become a top down, pseudo-imperialist organisation (despite the term ‘Catholic’ implying permitted diversity (as long as it remained at a cloistered level)).

      That is a very salient difference between the two reformation movements.

      However, although democratisation of the church seems to have been the major driver here in Scotland that did not stop English medieval spin-meisters from spotting a political advantage and reformation in Scotland was seen by Henry’s advisors as a way to help ‘capture Scotland’.

      Hence, we see historical reference to George Wishart (or perhaps his brother) being an agent in the pay of Henry VIII.

      Similar suspicions exist re Knox during the Elizabethan era although Knox and Elizabeth themselves were notoriously at loggerheads.

      My point is, there has always been spin when it is a matter of acquiring new territory.

      And Scots are not exempt. For example as part of Malcolm III’s attempts to annex Northumbria, in addition to numerous invasion attempts, he not only promoted the spread of Northern English throughout his realm but married an ‘English’ princess (who may have been more fluent in Hungarian than in English since she was born and raised there). Political expediency knows no bounds.

    112. yesindyref2 says:

      Interesting discussion here re the Church of Scotland and the Church of England thing. The CoS was involved in the Devolution constitutional commission, and did have some involvement in the Indy Ref. I read the article in the Herald when it came out and didn’t know what to make of it.

      There are a couple of problems, and that’s with Statehood. Both Law and Religion can be seen as measures of a state’s right to – be a State. From that point of view it’s possible the CoS and CoE initiative is alarming. But it’s probably more like they’re trying to keep themselves relevant in an increasingly secular or diverse religious society, both in Scotland and England.

      The other measure of Statehood, Law, is, as said, subject previously to the HoL but not on all matters, and now to the Supreme Court, though Salmond wasn’t happy with that idea. Perhaps with good reason.

      Not really of importance after a YES Referendum as realistically Westminster has no choice but to honour the result. More important though if Westminster refuses a second Ref as Cameron threatens, and the only choice would be to do the UDI and then hold our own Ref. To do so Scotland would have to be considerable as a State, and nothing should weaken that.

      Just my own opinion, IANAL. But it probably strengthens the need to have an absolute majority Government in Holyrood to request (and require) the Referendum, whatever party that is. Obviously the SNP currently. SNP + SNP in May.

    113. Macart says:

      I see Mr McKenna has opted for some wishful thinking over on the Graun in place of reasoned commentary. Basically he’s having a dig at Mr Harris and his observations on the impending irrelevance of Labour in Scottish politics. Now Kevin, being an old Labour supporter of long standing, is never going to take such an observation lying down no matter how accurate.

      In fact he does lay out a number of pertinent and to my mind accurate reasons as to why our electorate have turned their backs on Labour. Where he wanders off the beaten track is in his hopes of reviving Labour in Scotland and his hopes for the direction of travel for Ms Dugdale. He believes that Ms Dugdale should take a leaf from Mr Corbyn’s book no less. Take Labour in Scotland down a road it hasn’t travelled for many a decade, as in being a party of the people.

      Yeah, I know. Firstly Labour in Scotland isn’t a separate entity from Labour anywhere else in the UK. Secondly Mr Corbyn for all the support of England’s membership is NOT a leader in control of his own party and thirdly Labour in Scotland is toxic for a very good reason. They betrayed their own folk on every level for decades whilst reaping the rewards of career. Why on earth would anyone wish to revive this? Why would they trust those who abandoned them, stole from them, manipulated them and abused their trust?

      Labour in Scotland will NOT become a Scottish Labour party until a. They become a truly independent Scottish Labour party b. They clean out the long time tribal careerists tied to the idea of parliament before people c. They’ve spent a considerable period of time on the naughty step

      Lastly his parting advice to Kezia. Attack the SNP where they are weak – NHS, Education and Policing…in the face of results and performance which indicates our institutions are performing above and beyond past records and expectations, STILL this bullshit insinuation that somehow they aren’t fit simply because Labour is not in charge or basically, yes (sigh), SNP bad.

      A lazy end to an otherwise good piece. I suppose he can’t help himself, but damn he can be infuriating at times. No, no institution should consider itself the finished article and all of them should and must continue to constantly evaluate and evolve, strive for improvement. There is always room for improvement, but just what do you have to do to get a pat on the fucking back for jobs well done in difficult circumstances around here?

      In Mr McKenna’s eyes, be run by a Labour administration I suppose.

    114. Dorothy Devine says:

      Macart, just read the piece by oor Kevin , I dubbed it “Ode to Kezia” plagiarised version.

      He gets paid for that!

      Did anyone read the Robert Fisk piece on the Saudi’s ?
      I look forward to the ” weasel words” of the West!

    115. Ken500 says:

      The Church of Scotland was guaranteed separate status, forever under the Act of Union. Anything that compromises that will lead to it’s own demise. The Churches are losing members faster than a sieve loses water. An attempt to stop the flow and stop losing money? CoE Bishops sit in the unelected HoL . Unfair or propping up the Union. It could be to protect their status. ‘Status Quo’. How they can protect a UK Gov that breaks the ‘Law’ at every turn? Still no report of the latest Thatcher revelations, although individual Churchmen did speak out against them, and showed some concern.

      The state of Britain is secular. There are more non religious than religious in Britain. Why Cameron et al keep on banging the drum for Christianity is political, petty and ridiculous. Especially while bombing the Middle East to bits, causing the worst migration in Europe since 11WW. Supporting absolute, despot Monarchies, with no support for civil or voting rights. Sanctioning the vulnerable and starving them. Not very concerning behaviour or ‘Christian’. Breaking every ‘commandmant’ in the book. Pulling off more lying promises at the Referendum, aided by the lying Press.

      Some Churches do speak out against Westminster’s criminal, illegal behaviour some just acquiesce, seeking a future reward. The greedy banks who pay no taxes fund the Unionist Parties. The criminal politicians are in their pockets. Breaking the Law at every turn. Then spouting ‘Christian’ values. Total hypocrites. Farron ‘the Christian’ voted for more bombing in Syria. Even though a majority in Britain are totally against more illegal wars, costing £Trillions of wasted money. £170Billion for Trident, while the vulnerable starve. Trade and give aid. Do not invade. Vote with a conscience.

    116. Macart says:

      @Dorothy

      Just a lazy and senseless dig Dorothy. Kevin McKenna is not a stupid man, he is fully aware of Ms Dugdale’s short comings and record, but he is what he is and no one could accuse the fella of giving upon his beliefs cheaply.

      He wants a peoples Labour movement to have meaning and worth, to be ‘relevant’ to Scotland’s future. I get it.

      How and ever, that will not happen on his terms or narrative, but on the electorate’s.

      Didn’t catch the Fisk piece. Will have a look.

    117. galamcennalath says:

      OT I’m not a Green supporter but for TV and radio coverage in May we must have fair dos.

      https://www.scottishgreens.org.uk/news/bbc-scottish-greens-urge-rethink-of-proposed-election-coverage/

      It would be totally unreasonable if the almost defunct LibDems were given more coverage than the Greens.

      Also, Green and Tory support aren’t all that different. So why should the Tories get a higher profile than the Greens?

      The days of politics being about the Tories, Labour, LibDems plus (perhaps, maybe, if we can be bothered) SNP, are LONG gone.

      I think the Greens can appeal to disaffected Lab and LibDem supporters who have tribal animosity towards the SNP. I want the Greens to soak up Unionist votes. To do so they need to reach those voters, and as we all know, those are probably the people who get their world view from the TV, radio and CorpPress.

    118. Ken500 says:

      Labour Party of illegal war criminals, crooks and liars. McKenna supports them. They betrayed the Electorate at every turn causing a world crisis. The worst migration crisis since 11WW They wasted £Trillions of taxpayers money against the public interest and caused a world recession.

      The Chilcot report is 5 years late. The Unionist Parties are all the same. They are supported by Bankers and Multinational who criminally and illegally pay no taxes. Supported by the Non Dom tax evading Press. The latest Thatcher revelations are still unreported. They should be headline ‘news’ in Scotland. ‘This must be kept secret’, written on the documents’. Kept secret under the Official Secrets Act, to cover up corruption. They should hang their heads in shame.

      Total taxes raised in the UK £515Billion. Total taxes raised in Scotland £54Billion. The rest of the UK borrows and spend £90Billion more than Scotland and doesn’t raise (pro rata) as much tax as Scotland. Scotland was illegally and secretly cheated out of a £200Billion Oil Fund by Unionist politicians. The Unionists have just lied and cheated at the Referendum, with broken promises they had no intention of keeping. That will be their own demise. Vote with a conscience for the only Party that will stand up for Scotland. £170Billion for Trident. That is why public services are under funded n Scotland.

      The Oil sector (Westminster take 75%) ruined, wind turbines banned, no funding for renewables, no CSS funding for coal. Coal production stopped in the UK. More fuel and energy has to be imported putting up the balance of payments and the debt. More borrowed Chinese money for Nuclear by the sea and exported waste. A total waste of taxpayers money. Over budget and over time. That is why there is no money for public services. Westminster colossal wasted policies. Cold, hungry vulnerable people get sick.

    119. Ken500 says:

      Constantly attacking public services is a waste of time. The public appreciate the public services and the job that they do, with qualification. There could be improvements and that is what the SNP Gov is continuing and will continue to do. To keep on attacking public services run until four years ago by Unionists is counter productive. The ‘Unionist’ legacy. The electorate are not stupid. Give then more credibility. They know about pass failures and who is responsible. The lies that have been told. There comes a tipping point. The ‘Status Quo’ rejected. Fast approaching. Unionist/Green politicians total incompetence. Policies reneged upon.

    120. Macart @ 8.38 am.

      Well done for reading people that Mac. Personally, I gave up a long while ago having more worthwhile tasks to perform which hopefully will lead to our independence.
      Just one thing to add. On the doorstep, at least in our constituency which is a former Labour stronghold, the overwhelming reason we get for now voting S.N.P is the fact that they stood side by side with the tories during the referendum campaign. So hell mend them.

    121. call me dave says:

      @galamcennalath

      Aye! Aunties slip is showing. Here is the Herald version.

      https://archive.is/T4OBc

      Just heard that the Tunnocks tea cake is rebranding for daun Sarf!

      The lion is gone (maybe’s up North as well)… Yes looks like it’s a British tea cake now.

      https://archive.is/GffQV

      Never bought a Tunnocks anything for about 3 years
      Wish me luck off to the Glasgow sales… 🙁

    122. Dorothy Devine says:

      Macart , was that my senseless dig or McKenna’s ?

      If he is as you say , then I assume he writes to please the ” management” and his mortgage provider.

      Call me dave , me neither! Not one delicious T cake has passed my lips since their management decided to be nay sayers.

      I wonder who they knew in the GCC who gave them top spot in the Commonwealth Games ” brilliant ” opening – must have only been me that was hiding behind the couch and rolling my eyes!

    123. Ken500 says:

      NHS, Policing and Education. The SNP are having to sort out the Unionist failings. Sort out the Unionist mess as usual. More money has gone into all of them. Along with lower ‘loss leading’ ‘ drink consumption (lower legal allowance), and minimum pricing. The Unionists voted against all of them. No additional specialist training for additional needs pupils. Police 40% of ‘charges’ which had to be processed and never came to court. Annoying folk and more costly. The Police need more ‘Law’ training. There was no integration between hospital and social care.

      All that is changing. Increased NHS funding. Funded social care, prescriptions for the elderly. New Police administration. Increased student funding. Students get loans. Leaves training in additional needs for pupils in education to be comprehensively covered. Lower class sizes to be maintained.

      Councils to spend the money allocated to public services not diverted to wasteful, grotesque projects. Against the majority wishes and the public interest.

    124. heedtracker says:

      The only thing that will revive red tory Kez in their Scotland region, is JC promising to “give” us devo-max, like what they UKOK said they would. if we voted No.

      Has JC got the chops to save SLab in their Scotland region? No.

      And of course, steaming pile of tory lies and hypocrisy that is The Graun, don’t like that. So Mackenna chunters away at the living horror that is Scottish NHS, cops etc.

      Other news

      http://www.cleanforthequeen.co.uk/home/2365

      Oh when will death come.

    125. scottieDog says:

      Was staying with friends over the new year and was subjected a couple of times to bbc news. It’s funny watching it these days (first time in almost 2 years). I wish I had counted the number of times the word ‘terror’ was used. One of the articles was linking terror with a guy on a street pissed with a knife who didn’t even attack anyone.

      I looked around the room and I was the only one laughing….

    126. Ken500 says:

      The Queen certainly cleans up £400Million++ a year. How much dirty money keeps the wheels greased. Blair has just been stopped from staying at British Embassies for free, around the world. Protected by taxpayers money. The £100Million Royal PM jet.

      A £10/20 fine for litter dropping could clean up the state.

    127. Lenny Hartley says:

      Doroth Devine

      Yeah I miss them as well, but Aldi’s and lidl’s do good alternatives for about half price on the biscuits, Lee’s do good tea cakes, no alternative to the Logs mind you, I could murder a couple of them 🙂

    128. galamcennalth says:

      heedtracker says:

      “The only thing that will revive red tory Kez in their Scotland region, is JC promising to “give” us devo-max, like what they UKOK said they would. if we voted No.”

      That most certainly would have worked for Labour and Milliband 3-4 years ago.

      It’s too late now. Labour missed the best opportunity to save their Union, and give themselves a future in Scotland. However, I say that with hindsight!

      Firstly, it could be 5-10-15 years before Labour might be in a position it “give” anything from WM.

      Being the party who pushed for as little devolution as possible with Smith, voters would assume they were lying (again) if they suddenly became the party pushing max, rather than min.

    129. yesindyref2 says:

      @galamcennalath
      Thanks for the Green link, petition here:

      https://www.scottishgreens.org.uk/bbc-fair-coverage/

      I sugggest a throwaway email address, as the petition page doesn’t say the email address is only for the petition, so maybe they’d keep sending party stuff! Or if the BBC get it, Jackie Bird’s North British Newsletter, and Hogmanay 1965 repeats.

      Yes very unfair the Greens get treated like UKIP. while the LibDems get treated as though they’re a political party of note, rather than a political party of snot.

      The BBC should reflect current polls far more, rather than 5 year old history. But then it is itself 50 years back in time and hasn’t moved on over the decades.

    130. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Regarding Kevin McKenna. Mr McKenna now has weekly columns in the Observer, National and Herald newspapers. He may still, as far as I know, have a connection with the Daily Mail.

      This means, he has to, in any week, come up with three or four columns, reflecting roughly the political stance of these four different newspapers.

      Not an easy task, made harder by the fact, McKenna is old-fashioned, “plastic Paddy”-Celtic-supporting-Glasgow Labour. I doubt if he has had four ideas in his life.

      I know he has two: “Rangers bad” and “SNP Bad” and that is hardly a recipe for holding on to all four column commissions for long.

      Certainly, in the case of the Herald – he will never come close to filling the mighty hole which Ian Bell’s death has left.

    131. heedtracker says:

      Being the party who pushed for as little devolution as possible with Smith, voters would assume they were lying (again) if they suddenly became the party pushing max, rather than min.

      Maybe but the whole UKOK teamGB media creep out is specifically avoiding the devo-max underlying driver in their Scotland region.

      There’s a huge ongoing tension at the polls with enough Scots votes determined that Scotland should have devo-max and ofcourse our UKOK chums at BBC Scotland, SLab etc equally determined to rub it all out.

      BBC Scotland etc couldnt give a flying UKOK fudge about how Scottish NHS or the cops are actually performing, they just have to keep focus away from devo-max. And so they all UKOK prey, to the great gods of UKOK propaganda in the center of their British universe, London.

      eg

      My Slovene girlfriend and future Lord Tomkinski of Mayfair loves this hootsman’s toryboy childish routine attempts at SNP bad but what’s missing though? Devo-Max, the Vow, etc. It’s not a toryboy UKOK coincidence

      Adam Tomkins ?@ProfTomkins 15h15 hours ago
      Adam Tomkins Retweeted Aidan Kerr
      Agreed: this is a terrific column from @euanmccolm Adam Tomkins added,
      Aidan Kerr @AidanKerrPol
      Euan McColm: Introducing Sturgeon’s successor (this is a great read for anyone interested in Scottish politics) http://www.scotsman.com/news/euan-mccolm-introducing-sturgeon-s-successor-1-3990019

    132. Dorothy Devine says:

      Lenny, I eat all those mentioned now plus Marks and Spencers T cakes ,though I don’t know who makes them for Markies – I hope it is Lees and not Tunnocks.

      ( I do miss the creamy goo of Tunnocks now you mention your desire for logs!)

    133. North chiel says:

      O/T, however irked this morning listening to hourly local radio
      news giving a party political broadcast to Jackie Baillie , attacking
      the Scottish government on health service waiting times etc.
      with no reply from gov.spokesperson.Perhaps JB as health
      service spokesperson for Slab should start by “setting an example”
      in ” prevention rather than cure” in her own very obvious
      circumstances, as in later years this would reduce the health service
      “workload”.However, I won’t “hold my breath” , probably she has
      “private health cover” . If so preventative action would possibly ” reduce
      her premiums” ??

    134. Fred says:

      McKenna is in it for the dosh, further analysis if futile.

    135. Ken500 says:

      Who cares about a biscuit. There are already too many of them. Higher obesity levels. People eat them no matter what label is put on them. Greed is another motive. Conscience matters.

    136. Bill McLean says:

      Ian Bell, unfortunately, is irreplaceable. Renowned for his integrity and consistency and admired even by those who disagreed with his point of view. Kevin McKenna is as the dunce to Ian’s dux. Mr McKenna, like so many, see making money and pleasing everyone as a success! He will not be successful, in the way Ian was, until he understands this and finds a sense of purpose and some resolution!

    137. steveasaneilean says:

      “We could have said Scottish but you’re then promoting Scotland. We’re British.”

      So says Mr Tunnock.

      Nice (not).

      Wouldn’t do, promoting Scotland and all that now would it?

    138. Effijy says:

      From Boab McShakespurn’s “Hop it”
      (Something rotten in the state of Westminster, a right state)

      To Tea-Cake, or not to Tea-Cake- that is the question:
      Whether ’tis nobler in the mind to stuff in
      The alternatives that don’t cost an outrageous fortune
      Or to take arms against the likes of Tescos,
      And by opposing end them.
      To diet- to eat- No more; and by an SNP Vote to say we end
      The heartache, and the thousand unnatural cuts
      That Scots are heir to. ‘Tis a consummation
      Devoutly to be wish’d.

      To diet- to eat?
      To sleep- perchance to dream of Independence:
      ay, there’s the rub!
      For in that sleep of dearth what dreams may come
      When we have shuffled off this Westminster Boil,
      Must give us pause. There’s the respect
      That makes calamity of so long life.
      For who would bear the Walnut Whips and Cream Horns of time,
      Th’ oppressor’s wrong, the proud man’s contumely,
      The pangs of self determination, the law’s delay,
      The insolence of office, and the spurns
      That patient merit of the unworthy takes.

    139. Dorothy Devine says:

      Effijy, a gold star for that.

      Pure dead brilliant so it is!

    140. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Wouldn’t be at all surprised if all those nasty nats didn’t go into supermarkets and squeeze all the boxes of Tunnocks Tea Cakes

    141. Albaman says:

      Kevin McKenna?,
      He’s a modern day Guy Burgess, the ONLY thing he is interested in is the resurrection of Labour’s fortune,and if he has to ply with his devil (the S.N.P.) then so be it!.
      In short,I don’t trust the fella.

    142. Robert Peffers says:

      @shug says: 2 January, 2016 at 10:38 pm:

      ” … all well and good but what is the deal between the Church of Scotland and England about and what are they planning …

      What I’m saying, Shug, (in my own cack handed way), is that almost all the churches, in both Scotland & England, are now, and always have been, parts of, “The Establishment.

      “The establishment”, being the elite that has been running things since we have had recorded history.

      Think about it – The Romans ruled south Britain by Romanising the existing Briton leadership and letting them do Roman’s bidding. Note that we Britons did not become genetically Mediterranean so the Romans never generally interbred with us.

      After the Romans left they were replaced, by invitation, with the Anglo Saxon, (Germanic), tribes. Yet genetically there are less than 5% of Britons of actual Anglo Saxon descent among us. Thus another ruling elite.

      BTW: The Normans that gave us the Feudal system we still have today, (The Royals, Aristocrats, and with law lords, church lords and hereditary peers still sitting in the HOL).

      Then with an education system that sees the leaders of all Unionist political parties drawn from classmates at a handful of English public schools and onto the Oxbridge Universities. Not to mention they are at the lead in the armed forces, churches, law systems, civil service and even such as the Masons and Orange Order.

      The facts stare us in the face, “The Establishment”, has been an ever present factor in dictating British History since ever there was British history.

      To the man and woman on our streets this has never really been apparent but all evidence points to its existence.

      The Media is led by them and they award, “Honours”, to their loyal servants too.

      I was questioned as regards my take on the Treaty of Union but consider this – The people of Scotland were rioting in the streets. The Scottish Parliamentarians did not meet and dissolve the old Scottish Parliament.

      The people were hunting them down and would have lynched them. It is claimed that one parliamentarian’s signature was obtained on the Treaty paper in what is now a females toilet, in cellar, in a café across the road from the old parliament on the Royal Mile., (how’s that for split infinitives)?

      The old Scots Parliament was never dissolved but was legally prorogued and announced as over by Town Criers around the streets of Edinburgh. Furthermore, the Jacobites were still fighting for Scottish independence at Culloden, early 40 years after the Treaty was signed.

      Does that sound like the treaty was signed by a popular agreement of the people?

      More like being signed by a faction of what Robert Burns describes as, “A Paircel o Rogues”, composed of the Landowners, Lairds, Law Lords and Churchmen that comprised the, “Three Estates”.


      The members of the Parliament of Scotland were collectively referred to as the Three Estates (In Scots, “Thre Estaitis”. These were known as the community of the realm, and until 1690 were :-

      First estate: Prelates (bishops and abbots).

      Second estate: Lairds (dukes, earls, parliamentary peers (after 1437) and lay tenants-in-chief).

      Third estate: Burgh commissioners (representatives chosen by the royal burghs).

      The First Estate was overthrown during the Glorious Revolution and the accession of William III.

      The Second Estate was then split into two to retain the division into three.

      Parliament of Scotland was unicameral, all members sat in the same chamber, as opposed to the separate English House of Lords and House of Commons.

      The Scottish Parliament also had University constituencies from Scotland’s five Ancient universities.

      This system was adopted by the Parliament of England when James VI ascended to the English throne. This continued in the Parliament of Great Britain after 1707 and the Parliament of the United Kingdom until 1950.

    143. Clootie says:

      Robert Peffers say @12:46

      Excellent summary Robert

    144. Helena Brown says:

      Robert Peffers, with regard to the unpopularity of the Union, this is well remembered but I was once told by an Englishman that it was unpopular in England. This I have never had confirmed. Do you know if this in fact was true?

    145. Glamaig says:

      @North Chiel 11:31

      hourly local radio news giving a party political broadcast to Jackie Baillie , attacking
      the Scottish government on health service waiting times etc.
      with no reply from gov.spokesperson

      I can save you the trouble of complaining by telling you exactly what the reply is, because I’ve done it myself on previous occasions. They say, ‘ah but on the next bulletin we broadcast the response’

      Which might be true but you would have to sit and listen to the radio all day taking notes to find out.

      They should have balance within each bulletin.

    146. Robert Peffers says:

      @Legerwood says: 2 January, 2016 at 11:03 pm:

      “But George the First was a Stewart on his mother’s side. He was the great-grandson of James VI and I.”

      So what? Scotland was legally an independent Kingdom between 1603 and 1706/7.

      Thus the Westminster Parliament had no legal authority to depose a Scottish Monarch. Furthermore, under Scots law, (even today), the people and not either Westminster or the Monarch of England are sovereign.

      ” … George’s mother, Sophia Duches of Hanover was granddaughter of James VI and I and as a Protestant and a Stewart was heiress presumptive to Queen Anne but died shortly before Anne leaving her son as heir …

      Again, so what? The point is that the Glorious Revolution was the, (still independent English parliament), attempting interfere and exert English sovereignty over the legally sovereign people of Scotland.

      ” … There were Stewart’s who had a better claim but they were Catholics and thus ruled out. I believe the Bill of Rights and Claim of Rights passed in the 1680s by the respective Parliaments of England and Scotland ruled out a Catholic succession.”

      Again so what? Note that the law of Scotland, as it remains today, states the people, and not either the Royals nor the Parliament of the Kingdom of England, were sovereign. Much like today in fact.

      ” … Something that the English historians like to gloss over.”

      Something that much of Scotland’s historians also tend to, not just gloss over, but lie through their teeth about.

      ” … George was not chosen just because he was a Protestant, the Stewart connection was also important but rarely if ever mentioned.”

      Perhaps for the very good reason that it was only of importance to the Establishment but not to the People.

      It is not generally recognised that parts of North England were joining the Jacobite cause as they marched south.

      As I point out elsewhere the Establishment were well entrenched in the Scottish Parliament between the so called Union of the Crowns and in 1706/7.

      I posted this already :-

      The members of the Parliament of Scotland were collectively referred to as the Three Estates (In Scots, “Thre Estaitis”. These were known as the community of the realm, and until 1690 were :-

      First estate: Prelates (bishops and abbots).

      Second estate: Lairds (dukes, earls, parliamentary peers (after 1437) and lay tenants-in-chief).

      Third estate: Burgh commissioners (representatives chosen by the royal burghs).

      *****
      The First Estate was overthrown during the Glorious Revolution and the accession of William III.

      The Second Estate was then split into two to retain the division into three.

      Parliament of Scotland was unicameral, all members sat in the same chamber, as opposed to the separate English House of Lords and House of Commons.

      The Scottish Parliament also had University constituencies from Scotland’s five Ancient universities.

      This system was adopted by the Parliament of England when James VI ascended to the English throne. This continued in the Parliament of Great Britain after 1707 and the Parliament of the United Kingdom until 1950.

      Note that at the time of the treaty the sovereign people of Scotland were rioting in the streets and stoning the parliamentarians. That the parliament never sat and dissolved itself. It was instead proclaimed ended around the streets of Edinburgh by criers.

      In fact the old parliament was legally prorogued – not dissolved. Legally the Scots parliament required a mandate of the sovereign people but did not have one.

      Remember the armies of England were still illegally killing both Scottish troops and civilians at Culloden almost 40 years later in 1745. To this day the sovereign people of Scotland have never been asked to renounce their legal sovereignty. Need I ask the obvious question of, “Why Not”?

      Note: ***** The Glorious Revolution took place in an independent Kingdom of England. Why then is it applied to the independent Kingdom of Scotland?

    147. yesindyref2 says:

      @Heed
      I read Euan McColm’s column. He hath a great conceit about himself, with nothing to be conceited about.

    148. Lochside says:

      Shug: I saw this item mentioned in the BBC news last week.
      I,like you I guess, sensed something sinister. The Church of Scotland has been and is politically a Trojan Unionist horse in Scottish society.

      Knox was a disloyal to Scotland, colluding with the English to undermine Mary Queen of Scots and the existing Catholic church. Those of us taught crap Scottish history at ‘State’ schools were sold the lies about Mary as weak and ‘loose’; we also had the bullshit about Bonnie Prince Charlie as effete and a drunk.

      All these things may well be true, but the real narrative was and is a sectarian motive designed to reinforce the constitutional position of ‘catholicism’ in relation to the monarchy in the UK as an anathema.

      I have no belief or allegiance to monarchy or religion of any colour. But I know that the COS has had a malign influence on Scottish society. Some of its members and of its ministers are decent and god fearing no doubt, but the institutional mien of the Church is and seems to be one of loyalty to the English crown ( The only Scottish crown is in fact that: a crown only) and the British State.

      The pro establishment stance during the Highland clearances, the anti-Irish propaganda it spewed out in the 1900s. The shocking invitation to the arch criminal Thatcher and her disgusting ‘Sermon on the Mount’. Their institutional silence during the referendum and their weak and pathetic non resistance to the treatment of the poor and defenceless in our country.

      The COS is as Peffers says part of the Institutional oppression of Scotland. It masquerades as ‘Scottish’ yet it is riddled with Unionist lackeys, masons and orange order acolytes. This latest move is completely compatible with its recent history and identity.

      The questions should be: Who authorised this movement and why? Is Unionism now officially part of the COS creed? Have church members been canvassed on this radical move?

    149. Fred says:

      @ Dorothy, treat yersel, the man made a great contribution to the St Abbs lifeboat when the British NLI pulled the plug!

    150. Archie [not Erchie] says:

      @ Effigy 12:18pm – Absolutely stoatin. I love it. Fair made me smile and I will be keeping it in archive.

    151. Dorothy Devine says:

      Fred, well maybe just one – and I will think of our coastal waters and the brave men and women dedicated to saving those on the sea.

    152. Robert Peffers says:

      @Molly says: 2 January, 2016 at 11:07 pm:

      ” … As the ‘ established Churches of each nation ‘(their words not mine) they feel they can do something or other to support their work.

      Ah! Yes! Molly, your comment that it is their words not yours indicates you are aware of the importance of that little misleading statement.

      “The definition of, An Established Church is :-

      Noun. A church that is officially recognized as a national institution by a government; in England it is the Church of England”.

      Under the Treaty of Union there can be no such thing as an Established Church in Scotland. The Monarch cannot be head of a Scottish Church. Which is one good reason there is an Episcopalian, rather than COfE in Scotland.

      The Kingdom of England, “Establishment”, has a legal sovereign head, Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II. The Kingdom of England is, “A Constitutional Monarchy”, formed in 1688, that comprises only the countries of England, Wales, (from 1284), and Ireland, (from 1542 and N. Ireland , from 1800/1).

      Scotland was still a legally independent Kingdom between 1603 and 1706/7 and The Treaty of Union. The Treaty of Union specifically rules out any legal Establishment of any church in Scotland because the Monarch, (legal head of the Establishment), is prohibited from heading a Scottish Church.

      Yet here we have the Church of Scotland claiming to be the Established Church in Scotland. However, myself and many other Scots have always known that the hierarchy of the Scottish Churches have remained always not only royalists but parts of the Establishment and there are no more loyalists in Scotland than the Loyal Orange Order.

      Yet historically there is absolutely no written, or legal, evidence whatsoever that either Westminster or the Royals holds sovereignty over Scotland. It has, though, always been presumed by the Establishment that it does.

      Including, (ironically), the Present Secretary of State for Scotland who said, in the public domain, “The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as The United Kingdom”.

      Cite : – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OIRUr4R7GQ

      However, the fact remains there are recorded precedents under Scottish law that set in stone the legal fact that in Scotland the people are legally sovereign. In other words Mundell and his Establishment cohorts are bare faced liars who will continue to face that hurdle in any moves to prevent a proven majority of the legally sovereign people of Scotland taking their legal independence.

      That’s a legal fact – independence can be legally claimed by a majority of the people of Scotland.

      Let us give Nicola that clear legal mandate.

    153. Robert Peffers says:

      @Helena Brown says: 3 January, 2016 at 1:10 pm

      “Robert Peffers, with regard to the unpopularity of the Union, this is well remembered but I was once told by an Englishman that it was unpopular in England. This I have never had confirmed. Do you know if this in fact was true.”

      Apparently yes. However I’m busy just now and no time for specific cites.

      Apparently Bonnie Prince Charlie’s army, on its march to London, was picking up support in the North of England and as far back as the Scottish Wars of Independence the English Monarch had a Northern Lord or Baron executed for treason for supporting the Scots, (or perhaps rather for not supporting the English Monarchy and not engaging with the Scots troops), but that’s from memory.

      Edward certainly had his hands full around that time suppressing his own aristocracy but the involvement of Scottish independence in all that is quite sketchy.

      Remember the Bruce Family were also English/Norman nobles. In fact the Bruce Family owned land in what is now London’s Whitehall. They no doubt had connections throughout the English nobility.

      This was around the time before the Battle of Old Byland. It might surprise many Scots the large number of battles that are never mentioned between the two Kingdoms.

      It is a period almost unknown to many Scots who are lucky to know of the battles of Bannockburn & Stirling Bridge.

      Check out, for example, these links : –

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battles_between_Scotland_and_England

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Battles_of_the_Wars_of_Scottish_Independence

    154. shug says:

      I don’t have a problem with the Westminster confession stuff.it was a document of its time. They could not have a king that was subservient to Rome. It is also not a lot different from the declaration immigrants currently have to swear when they enter the USA renouncing all foreign potentiate etc
      My issue is the church of Scotland being lined up to do a tunnocks

    155. Ken500 says:

      Buying a Lifeboat is tax deductable. Thanks to those on the production line.

    156. call me dave says:

      @Effijy

      Just read your ode thingy to a tea cake… excellent 🙂

      Just back from the sales in Glasgow…don’t ask!.. and she put the cherry on the top when she plonked an ’empire biscuit’ down with my coffee in John Lewis cafe. 🙁

      I’m sure she’s doing it deliberately although she claims not.

      Off to do all my x-words now as the next thread, although interesting, won’t concern me as I don’t twitter.

    157. call me dave says:

      Bum fluff!

      Forgot to post this…Kezia!

      https://archive.is/tlFwD

    158. Robert Peffers says:

      @shug says: 3 January, 2016 at 5:52 pm:

      ” … My issue is the church of Scotland being lined up to do a tunnocks”

      Well Shug, I was brought up i my early years by my Grandparents as Dad & Mum were conscripted for WWII to fight and work on munitions respectively. My Grandparents were a mixed Protestant/RC couple as were my parents.

      I went to whatever denomination school was nearest home. I am thus non-sectarian and really have never been too impressed by the Biblical fairy tales. I have no axe to grind.

      I have always also rather doubted the history taught in our schools and I treat both, very much interconnected subject with much scepticism and believe nothing of either subject without proof positive. That and what I see, hear, read and detect around me.

      I also spent quite a lot of Sundays at speaker’s corer at the Foot of the Mound in Edinburgh. There used to be a person who was a regular soapbox speaker there called John Cormack.

      This guy was Protestant Action and some of the stuff he spouted would have him instantly arrested now. Thing is he was a Leith Councillor, sat on the bench in court as a Baillie and his biased sentencing of Catholics was disgraceful. I was genuinely shocked at some of the things this guy spouted in public.

      He was also a leading light in the Morningside sectarian riots of 1935

      Here’s Speaker’s Corner:-
      https://www.facebook.com/lostedinburgh/photos/a.251802618210762.62536.162922127098812/569670926423928/

      and a bit about Cormack:-

      http://www.scotsman.com/news/crossing-the-great-divide-1-1187031

      So it always seemed to me the Church of Scotland have been much more establishment and sectarian than they ever let on to be in public. I also have studied the history of Scottish education and sectarianism while researching other things.

      So sorry to say the CofE seem to have encouraged sectarianism and supported the Establishment throughout their entire history. As indeed have several other pillars of Scottish life including the law, education and the individual police forces.

    159. Ken500 says:

      The Churches have privileges above the Law. The Equal Opportunities Law. Supported with public money for service provision. Councils support CoS Old Folks Homes, Cathoilc schools etc. People of faith can be employed as a priority.

      If the Church of Scotland do a Tunnock they lose the right to ‘separate’ existence. Scotland was given the right to a separate (Protestant) Church under the terms of the Act of Union. A shared Protestant Monarch. To be treated equally. Broken many times by Westminster. People rights to religious tolerance could be a civil rights issue. Human Rights Act.

    160. shug says:

      Had not come across Cormack before

      I noticed that he had served in Ireland during the revolution there. I wonder if he saw friends killed etc that caused him to be so anti catholic. (not making excuses for him)

      I always wonder where the perception of Scotland being anti catholic comes from. I can’t think of any other country where;
      an immigrant group comes into the country

      is allowed to have segregated education funded by the state

      is allowed to discriminate against teachers of a different faith

      Where their faith teachers are allowed full participation in the state education system

      A prize is on offer for anyone that can name a country that supports any immigrant community in such a way.

      It strikes me that Orange unionists from northern Ireland and green nationalists from southern Ireland both want to shout down Scotland

      I think it is time for people to want to be Scottish in the same way Tunnocks wants to be British

    161. john young says:

      Why should it bother you shug that Catholic schools employ only Catholic teachers,it is what most Catholic parents want,in these schools the pupils are taught respect for other faiths they are taught to follow in Jesus,s path,you will hear nothing resembling hatred of those of a different persuasion,at Mass we pray for not only our own but all others regardless,it might be better if all the non-believers applied themselves similarly.Religion gets the blame for the worlds ails when inmo it is a lack of true religion/faith,we have lost our spirituality we have lost our soul and it is going to be a very long way back if at all.

    162. shug says:

      John Young
      I am fine with separate schools
      I am fed up hearing about how Scotland is full of bigots. I think we put up with a lot of sh.. from both sides to suit their purposes and herd us into silos to be controlled.
      If either side has a complaint I would pack them off to Ireland (north or south) where they can live under the colour of their choosing
      During the referendum the BBC interviewed a choice individual in a lodge in Wishaw. He really thought the world would end if we voted yes and he would have to move south -I am still looking for a down side there!!
      How did we get onto this??

    163. jdman says:

      In my view Scott, people who join us from other parties should be welcomed with open arms but at the same time have it made perfectly clear they will be expected to “join the queue” when it comes to selection for Councillors and MP/s/MSP’s it is not reasonable to push loyal party members to the end of the queue just because a high flyer from another party sees the writing on the wall.



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