An acceptable answer
Earlier today we published an email from Daily Record editor Murray Foote about “The Vow”. In it he referred to an editorial published in the paper on 8 September, attacking the “confused” and “shambolic” position of the three Unionist parties on further devolution to Scotland in the event of a No vote.
The infamous “Vow” was their response. When publishing it on 16 September, two days before the referendum, the Record announced on its front page that “NOW VOTERS CAN MAKE AN INFORMED CHOICE”, thereby implying that “The Vow” had delivered what the 8 September editorial had demanded.
Readers can judge for themselves.
Below is an edited summary of the piece. You can click for the full version, to show that we haven’t taken it out of context in any way.
“Record View: Cameron, Clegg and Miliband MUST spell out credible alternative to independence
The three parties have cooked up a plan to announce a timetable to deliver more devolution powers. Not an agreement or a cross-party accord on what those powers would be.
They can hardly own the moral high ground without rectifying that.
In not spelling out a coherent vision of more powers, the No parties have sold the people of Scotland short. They have been dragged kicking and screaming to this point and need to agree quickly on what they can meaningfully offer.
We have entered the final furlong and we are well past the time for vague promises. We need a cast-iron devolution offer that all three main Westminster parties are committed to delivering.
What we are saying is: We must know what that offer is before we make up our their minds.
All emphases above are ours. Yet they’re barely necessary. The editorial is scathing about Scots being offered a “timetable” or “vague promises”. It demands a “cast-iron devolution offer”, and says Scotland “must know what that offer is” before the vote.
Yet what the Record published and trumpeted as a comprehensive response from the three leaders was exactly what the paper had scorned previously – a wishy-washy set of, vague, non-specific pledges about “fairness” and “opportunity”, and a timetable. The entire back-of-a-fag-packet text of “The Vow” is below:
“The people of Scotland want to know that all three main parties will deliver change for Scotland.
We are agreed that:
The Scottish Parliament is permanent and extensive new powers for the Parliament will be delivered by the process and to the timetable agreed and announced by our three parties, starting on 19th September.
And it is our hope that the people of Scotland will be engaged directly as each party works to improve the way we are governed in the UK in the years ahead.
We agree that the UK exists to ensure opportunity and security for all by sharing our resources equitably across all four nations to secure the defence, prosperity and welfare of every citizen.
And because of the continuation of the Barnett allocation for resources, and the powers of the Scottish Parliament to raise revenue, we can state categorically that the final say on how much is spent on the NHS will be a matter for the Scottish Parliament.
We believe that the arguments that so powerfully make the case for staying together in the UK should underpin our future as a country. We will honour those principles and values not only before the referendum but after.
People want to see change. A No vote will deliver faster, safer and better change than separation.”
That’s not “a collective Plan B on more devolved powers”. It’s nothing remotely close to a “cast-iron devolution offer”. It identifies NOT A SINGLE new power. It says that health spending – already fully devolved – will stay devolved. It says that the parties will honour the principles of staying in the UK, because the UK is great.
And it promises – emptily, for no government can bind its successors – that Holyrood won’t be abolished. Well, thanks. That’s a bit like going into negotiations for a pay rise and having your employer pledge not to fire you and burn your house down.
If the feeble dribble of nothing of “The Vow” is what it’s prepared to settle for after all its bombastic demands, we hope the Daily Record is never our defence lawyer.
((((( BOYCOTT )))))
Which can never bind a future parliament anyway.
Is the Daily Record below 200,000 sales yet?
I feel for the employees, but not at any price, so ("Tractor" - Ed)s like the DR must face the consequences of their actions.
Free the Vowgate Emails.
Well done Stu,
If we have learned anything from the Referendum it is you can NEVER believe anything you read in the trash newspapers.
Although I have and always will be a supporter of Independence, I never thought bias / corruption was so rife in certain newspapers and media outlets (as some are portrayed as national institutions),until the Referendum. When the time comes we will bring them to task, because for the sake of the Nation we cannot allow the Bitter parties to shaft us again.
Gary
Of course the Vow was so much vapour. That’s why Gordon Brown had to come out on TV and clarify what was being offered.
Devo-max, near federalism, home rule. It could really be clearer.
If we put our faith in the Vow, then we put our faith in the meaning of the phrase “significant new powers” and Scotland’s future then becomes an arguement over semantics. The government will claim “significant” means 15p on income tax and they will sell that poisoned pill as “devo max”. And the Daily RedTory will dutifully oblige, feeding their dumb readers whatever lines they need to sell that crap.
Straight out of 1984.
That’s why GB’s clarification of “home rule” is key. We know that this swung the vote, so Scotland had better see the Home Rule promised in the timescale set out, or the referendum was a corruption of democracy and thus void.
People are already starting to see that this is the case, with all the three parties now backing away from any significant devolution, let along Home Rule. Just look at Labour! They are fighting to see Scotland get NOTHING!!!!
No wonder polls now show a majority of Scots would now vote for independence. No wonder Labour is in freefall.
People don’t like being screwed.
We are in a remarkable situation where the vast majority of a country strongly want something (home rule) and yet the people who are elected to serve us are strongly opposed to it, because of their own selfish needs. Even the majority of no voters want home rule because they know it is the only way to shut us Nats up for a while. They can’t see another way to keep the union they love, without burying democracy and imposing totalitarian restrictions on freedom (which some would like to do).
Westminster are walking a dangerous line. If they deliver nano-nothing and then get the MSM to sell it as what was offered by Brown and the stooges, then they have to hope that the people of Scotland are dumb enough to buy it.
But there are already enough of us with our eyes open to make that task impossible. Scotland has changed for good. Independence is inevitable now, and the only thing the unionists have to buy themselves time is Home Rule. Failure to deliver that will simply hasten independence.
Now watch them fuck it up.
@Stu
(That’s a bit like going into negotiations for a pay rise and having your employer pledge not to fire you and burn your house down)
Classic way to put it
This isn’t democracy. The referendum was rendered null and void by the breaking of the Edinburgh Agreement and the fraudulent publicising of what Gordon Brown described as Devo Max, Home Rule or Federalism as the substance of a NO vote.
Why isn’t the Electoral Commission taking action? If they don’t who can?
I am beginning to dislike the Daily Record more than BBC Scotland, and believe me that takes some doing.
Mr. Foote is doing nothing more than now defending his own decision to print this rubbish & the consequential crash in print sales.
The deflection is there because it was his decision to print it & thus the consequential response by many of its readers to no longer buy the paper, is entirely down to him.
Forget the wishy washy bollocks that is the Vow, the Editor of the Daily Record is simply trying to secure his job.
For if I was a majority shareholder & had just watched the sales of this publication crash, immediately after Foote printed the Vow, I would be asking serious questions of his judgment & suitability as an Editor.
It’s no different to some smart ass in Cumbernauld HQ, changing the ingredients of Irn Bru only to watch their dominant market position immmediately sink down the league.
We can make two simple conclusions. First, the Vow is worth no more than an empty fag packet & secondly, the Editor of the Daily Record is clearly trying to keep his job.
The mystery about who wrote what & signed off when is actually neither here nor there because none of it was published with the express approval of Parliament & thus is null & void.
Surely the DR must be absolutely embarrassed when they look back at their ‘demands’ and assurances about ‘cast iron’ anythings then look at ‘The Vow’ [insert Heavenly trumpets here] and see just how ephemeral it actually is? Nah, it WAS just a rhetorical question.
Well done, Rev. As expected, the MSM all jumped on the Vow bandwagon and spouted it as a 100% guarantee,but not one of them looked at the detail and challenge the 3 stooges.
All guilty as charged!
QUOTES FROM THE DARK SIDE:
“The No campaign needs to start explaining why the Union can make Scotland better not why Independence will be a terrible thing as Scots, mired in a swamp of endless negotiations, wander between our mud huts borrowing cups of woad. If, as their campaign claims, we will be better together, they need to start telling us why.”
source: DR sister rag, Sunday Mail, 17th February 2013.
The above quote was written by the red tory rag over 20 months ago. Yet the Bitter Traitors never did start telling us why and
2 days prior to THE most important day in Scotland’s history they collaborated with the red tory rag to deceive Scotland.
Note the part of ‘Project Fear’ written into that editorial quote above – the bit telling us that Independence would lead to long and protracted negotiations blah blah blah.
Anyone tell me how the Smith Commission is coming along or how that’ll turn out? No? Didn’t think so.
If we had voted for Independence we would already be masters of our own destiny.
Instead, filthy LibLab ("Tractor" - Ed)s have us begging for more.
Folk that were engaged with the campaign knew that the Vow was a pile o pish. Ordinary punters were taken in by this con trick, and I think this is why we are seeing a huge SNP lead over British Labour in the polls.
Nemo me impune lacessit!
[…] An acceptable answer […]
The Record must be panicking .
Sales are down and the online media and tweeting is cursing them. Fantastic news. A boycott is a perfect way to remind them of their disgusting behavior over the ref period.
Many see the vow as an empty promise. It helps fuel the YES campaigners and No voters alike. This rag is a Labour magazine through and through , it should fall with them.
I sent an e-mail off to the Sun promising to buy it faithfully if they supported Scotland in the GE and SE. We need a rag to get the message out to those who stay away from online sources. No answer yet but they must be aware of the Sunday Heralds readership increase and the losses all Scottish papers are suffering.
I can’t stand the Sun either but if it was more open and supported Scots , i would buy the thing. Anything to hurt the Record.
The polls show SNP in a huge lead and these figures say much more than just numbers. It’s good to see so many positive things happening and i’m really enjoying this. We were supposed to die off .
Cracking work Stu. And great comments too.
Off to the Million mask march in Edinburgh. 🙂
Hope to see some Wingers but hoping more for a big crowd.
Show the world we are still here louder and prouder than before.
Off topic but my goodness I am gobsmacked. East sussex are planning to burn an effigy of the FM which has the 45 pinned on the side, so that’s all of us being torched.
So much for reconciliation and I wonder what would happen if we were to burn effigies of the Westminster scum.
If the sock dont fit, you must acquit!
“Among the calamities of war may be jointly numbered the diminution of the love of truth, by the falsehoods which interest dictates and credulity encourages.” (Samuel Johnson, 1758)
I guess the DR considered itself to be at War throughout the referendum campaign.
Ah the good old Daily Record. The paper OF the people FOR the people BY the people. No wait I think I’m a wee bit confused here. 😉
The Daily Record OF the people no wait I’ve got it!
The Daily Record the paper OF the party OF the people BY the party BY the people FOR the party FOR the people. That’s it! 😛
My commiserations to the free thinking journalists who work at the Daily Record but realistically the time has come to shut the doors for one last time at this rag.
It was nothing but smoke and mirrors, to get a NO vote.
The owners of the Record are incandescent, senior staff at the Mirror Group are phoning staff at the Record to try and gain an insight and understanding about what went wrong and how they can fix it.
Got talking to a journalist at an SNP meeting who is leaving D.R or Sunday Mail and is going to work with Sun. Herald. Turns out that she took a call from head office during her weeks notice and felt free to answer truthfully without fear, her work colleagues not having this luxury for fear of losing their jobs, and what she told them they didn’t want to hear!
Looks like their bottom line is worrying them but they still refuse to take on board advice nor recognise valuable feedback A!
The journalists colleagues are jealous that she is going to work at the S. herald. Seems the majority of the staff supported a Yes vote but as employees had to follow company policy, according to said journalist.
If the Tories burning Alex Salmond and the 45% of Scotland is ‘Better Together’, thank God we never voted Yes.
They’re doing the same with the “Scottish” Labour Party, acknowledging all the lies, deceit, infighting, Westminster interference and lack of leadership, because they think it will be much more convincing next week when they go “Look how the Daily Record’s demands for change have made the Labour Party fabulous again, now our readers have a trustworthy party you can vote for again thanks to us.”
Honestly, they’re so predictable.
:-O
link to twitter.com
The people responsible for burning an effigy of Alex Salmond in Lewes, Sussex tonight. Causing quite a stir.
Chairman Paul Slot chairman@waterloobonfire.co.uk
Vice Chairman Michel Lorec michel@waterloobonfire.co.uk
Company Secretary Cheryl Swinburn c\o: amanda@waterloobonfire.co.uk
Secretary Amanda French amanda@waterloobonfire.co.uk
Treasurer Paul Slot (Acting) paul@waterloobonfire.co.uk
Membership Val Rea val@waterloobonfire.co.uk
Fete Enquires Amanda French fete@waterloobonfire.co.uk
East Sussex County Council are desperate to distance themselves from this event. They could ban it if they wanted to.
O/T The Max Kaiser report 673 is a blistering attack on the fraudulent anti-democratic state of the UK. Part two interviews a doctor and a film maker who have produced a video report on the privatisaton of the NHS in England, contrary to what the politicians of all Westminster parties said during the referendum campaign. Mentions Scotland near the end and hints that it isn’t over yet.
The video is being crowd funded through startjoin.com which looks interesting for alternative media.
link to rt.com
As we all know, the Unionists at Westminster fought tooth and nail to keep the third option of more devolution off the independence referendum ballot paper because they knew it had overwhelming support in Scotland. Hence the reason the scheming Unionist Daily Turd devoted its front pages to giving the impression that a NO vote was basically a vote for more devo.
Did the Daily Record actually support a third option of more devolution being on the referendum ballot paper?
“The journalists colleagues are jealous that she is going to work at the S. herald. Seems the majority of the staff supported a Yes vote but as employees had to follow company policy, according to said journalist”
We are celebrating the 25th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall. I remember when the Communist regimes were falling across Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union. In many countries, at the critical moment, news readers and journalists refused to tow the party line. Some even went on air and condemned the lies of the government and the attempt to wrongly manipulate public opinion.
I am sorry that Daily Retard journos are not cut off the same cloth. Or, when it comes to it, BBC Scotland staff. What is it the Tibetans say? Better to live as a lion for one day than a donkey your whole life…
link to news.stv.tv
Well this wasn’t predictable.
Murphy going for the bigot vote.
So much for more economic powers. What Scotland really needs is the right to scream sectarian abuse at the football.
Good comment on Scot Goes Pop on the burning effigy tweet.
link to scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk
Setting of for George Square hope to see some Wingers there,meeting place same as before.
If only the Daily Record had a Political Editor who could have held Murray Foote back from printing “The Vow” bollocks on the front of his newspaper.
You would hope that a Political Editor would be 100% clued up on the source and ramifications of political stories.
Nana Smith says:
5 November, 2014 at 4:02 pm
“Off topic but my goodness I am gobsmacked. East sussex are planning to burn an effigy of the FM which has the 45 pinned on the side, so that’s all of us being torched.
So much for reconciliation and I wonder what would happen if we were to burn effigies of the Westminster scum.”
Nana,
Just last week Carlisle were planning on placing a Mary Queen of Scots on top of their annual castle bonfire but after a bit of a stink was created it was decided a bad idea.
I often wonder where these halfwit council employees purchase their grey matter.
🙂
East Sussex CC are in trouble are in trouble because it is an offence to make malicious telecommunications on twitter
[…] An acceptable answer […]
@YESGUY
I can’t stand the Sun either but if it was more open and supported Scots , i would buy the thing. Anything to hurt the Record.
Yeah, I would have done the same.
In the end, the Sun was pretty balanced and neutral, but the only paper I make a point of buying now is the Sunday Herald.
I have a feeling they might support the SNP at the General Election, if only to hurt Labour and their Daily Record rival.
@Balaaargh – that link has been removed
@lanarkist – push that out all over twitter.
@Onwards – typical of Murphy, no doubt he picked that up at Celtic park.
There is an article on Bella from a member of RIC and in it the guy also mentions how he disagrees with this law – saying folk getting their doors kicked in for ‘just signing a song’ – how true is that?
link to bellacaledonia.org.uk
I’m sure Stu had a poll a while back which showed about 80% approved of this act.
@Stoker
I am livid that people think this is just fine. Better together NO thanks.
I want another vote, sooner the better and let England pay their own way for once.
These bloody idiots have no idea who the subsidy junkies are.
Liar, liar
Foote on fire.
O/T East Sussex County council tweet: FM, the 45% and Nessie to be burned at bonfire tonight
link to twitter.com
This is outrageous! I phoned SNP Press Office who are already aware and the FM is putting out a press release.
Who’s betting its not on the BBC Scotland News?
Can you imagine if the Daily Records front page tomorrow was a ‘Vow’ sized image of the effigy of Alex Salmond and the 45% about to be set on fire by East Sussex Council.
That would just melt my brain.
The Record needs to answer some serious questions. It is playing fast and loose with the truth, and it is not good enough. They have deceived the people of Scotland. I agree …boycott and a full out continual declaration of condemnation on social media. Let us see if that brings the truth out!
more than willing to contribute to a fund Rev where we aim to get your analysis of ‘the Vow’ in paper form through every letter box in Scotland.
As one of the 45 Im being burnt in effigy tonight in East Sussex,England.I’ve never been the victim of such hatred before.But I feel very secure in the knowledge that 1.6 million of my fellow Scots are hated every bit as much.To be so hated by the English Tories is a great accolade indeed.
@James Caithness
It’s OK, someone grabbed a screenshot before the Council took it down…
link to twitter.com
tried to access the Sussex effigy tweet but it appears to have been taken down.
if you really want to see bigoted effigy and flag burning have a look at some of the Loyalist bonfires every 11th July before the big Orange Order marches on the 12th
A contemporary example of bigotry (yesterday) from a westminster MP representing Murphy’s new best friends can be seen here, together with Scot2Scot launch and solidarity with the catalonia referendum this sunday
link to eurofree3.wordpress.com
Why have the Tories not burnt an effigy of the Rev?Maybe next year,Rev.
@liz
People.may agree with the law but not many would agree with the way the Police have acted. Political football indeed
Ok – this has been going on for a few day now – I respect the way we are slowly poking away at the facts but enough is enough – lets just call there bluff and directly ask for all the evidence that a firm agreement was made in writing and failure to show the paper trail as to the final wording and agreement by the 3 UK parties (I was going to say 3 main but now the 3 main are SNP/Tory/labour in that order) we will assume that it’s all bull. The kind of bull that was thrown together to fool a nation into going for freedom.
This is starting to get a bit old now – it’s shite, always was shite, always will be shite.
The effigy story and tweet is in The Herald…just google East Sussex Salmond
Historic fraud by Scotland’s champ! Keep at them. I was in England on referendum day and Crash Gordon’s jowly pooch was practically never off the BBC screens down here, belting out The Vow. At Waterloo station he was like a giant angry, nae hysterical bouncy big brother. So was that Herald colomist Katherine Macleod coming in behind Crash with ” and we’ll have no money in oor puir wee Scottish purses tomorrow, so vote No” Some duo and no doubt delighted at ALicSamin now replacing Guy Fox in the Herald, another of Scotland’s champs. Macloed’s an ex spin doc for Flipper Darling but not much out of any of our imperial masters following Labour triumphant implosion straight after crushing the seps. Weirdos one and all.
“A guy of the First Minister has been unveiled as the centrepiece of the prestigious Lewes bonfire celebrations.
The official East Sussex County Council Twitter account tweeted a picture of the effigy, which includes Nessie and a 45% symbol, with the message “A sneak preview of Alex Salmond and Nessie ahead of tonight’s bonfire in Lewes – it just rolled up at County Hall.”
Not surprised that an effigy of AS will be burned in a bonfire tonight, in fact i`m thinking there will be a lot of Scottish themed effigies being burned in england.
Bitter Together for sure.
So we are about to be thrown on the bonfire, where is Scotland we love you and we want you to stay then.
How do people like Gordon Brown etc think about that, do they think that THEY are liked, because I can assure them they are lumped in with the rest of us when they are talking about Scotland, possibly with more disgust as the English would have never done what the 55% did.
That master of propaganda, Joseph Goebbels said, and I paraphrase slightly; that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. Then keep up the lie, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.
Let`s hope someone somewhere comes unstuck and soon.
Jim Murphy will say anything to achieve his short-term goal of Scottish leader. Longer term, he doesn’t give a shit, he has a whole future following in the footsteps of Blair and the other careerists.
Is East Sussex County Council a Tory run council ?
link to bbc.co.uk
Rev,
What about “purdah”?, did it apply or not?.
I have added media personnel to the coverage of BBC bias. Each person is linked, in some way, either through work, study or marriage. Any independent person would be persuaded to the view that BBC Scotland is corrupt
Close Links through Marriage, University, Journalism, Other Media Duties and/or Political Career:
John Boothman; Head of BBC Scotland News and Current Affairs, (formerly Editor of Elections and Political Output). In 1979 he was the Chairperson of Strathclyde University Labour Club, Chairperson Scottish Organisation of Labour Students in 1980 and Chairperson of the National (UK) Organisation of Labour Students 1981. Married to Susan Deacon
a. The head of news and current affairs at BBC Scotland has been accused of acting at the behest of a special advisor to the Scottish Labour party who it is claimed regularly complained about the political content of BBC Scotland programmes.
link to caltonjock.com
Living in Scotland at the moment is like sitting on top of a volcano where the seismograms are going off the ‘Richter Scale’ so if our unionist liars don’t want an eruption on the scale of Krakatoa then they had better stop farting about trying to derail Full ‘Home Rule’ and set about delivering. The consequences of their failure does not bear thinking about and it will not take much to tip people over the edge.
Auld Rock
Sorry Stu o/t but worth a watch if you havn’t seen it before.
From Canada but could apply to us.
link to youtube.com
East Sussex sounds like prime UKIP territory and the type of society we Scots desperately want to leave……
link to veshengro.tripod.com
On Saturday last, October 25, 2003, a caravan was wheeled thru the street of the village Firle in East Sussex, before later being set alight and blown up with heavy fireworks at the village bonfire party.
One villager, who was attending the bonfire party with her seven-year-old daughter, said that a caravan was being wheeled down the street, which portrayed women and children inside, with the word “pikey” written on the back, and the image of a scantily clad woman standing in the door.
Other villagers, who have asked to remain anonymous, have said that the effigy was chosen after the recent eviction of travelers from a nearby field.
After the event images of this event were even posted on the website of the Firle Bonfire Society.
Richard Gravett, the chairman of the Firle Bonfire Society, said that there was no racist slant in this towards anyone from the Traveling community. “If anything, it’s actually completely the other way”, he said.
The East Sussex County Council bonfire demonstrates why Jim Murphy, or indeed any other Scot, will never again be electable as British Prime Minister. The xenophobic south east marginals just wouldn’t tolerate it.
thanks desimond – saw the salmond effigy story is on the BBC, STV and is widespread by now.
very shocking – couldn’t burning contemporary leaders be construed as a hate crime?
poor old Guy Fawkes is still on the fires after over 400 years –
talk about implacable brits – they never forgive or forget!
will mr salmond still be burnt in 2414?
Wonder if the burning of Oor Alex’s effigy, will result in a further influx of new members to the SNP.
Jim Murphy is claiming that Labour will hold every single one of their Scottish seats at next year’s UK general election? He’s even taken personal responsibility for that prediction by stating that he knows how to make it happen.
(scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/)
So Jim Murphy knows how to make a 34% SNP lead in the polls disappear..
Presumably then, he also knows how the Yes lead in IndyRef disappeared.
It doesn’t matter who actually did it – the “Yes” and “45%” signs on the Salmond effigy can easily be construed as incitement to racial hatred. We should all be calling Sussex Police and asking them to look into it. Any Wingers in that part of the world care to comment on the fear it puts up them?
Let’s not forget though, that Lewes is the town where for years they still burned an effigy of the pope every year, to remember what Guy Fawkes Night (and much of the British state) is really all about – eliminating “popery” from these islands. It’s why we had the settlements in the north of Ireland, it’s why the Treaty of Union and attendant other laws were so important and it’s why the Orange Order were perhaps the only truly honest campaigners on the No side.
All this furore over East Sussex County Council seems a little artificial and akin to the Tories’ complaints about the celebration of Thatcher’s death.
It’s hard to construe the burning of an effigy resembling the FM as a personal death threat. In fact, if we consider that the whole fireworks celebrations are a celebration of the Westminster Parliament, where the people rally against attempts made by Guy Fawkes to dismantle Westminster, we might even see a decent metaphor in it.
We might even take it as an honour that they’ve spent all that time and effort to build an effigy of someone who should be entirely irrelevant to them. Can you imagine them doing the same thing with Carwyn Jones or Jack McConnell.
When I first saw the tweet, I just thought it was a bit sad that, still, all they can think about is Alex Salmond. It really isn’t worth getting up in arms about.
If you have not yet already concluded there is a Westminster Establishment master plan being foisted upon Scotland, Wales & N.I. by the United Kingdom. a.k.a. “England”, then it is time you woke up to reality. The Treaty of Union is legally a bipartite agreement as it has only two signatories and they are NOT countries. They are the sovereign, three country, “Kingdom of England”, and the sovereign single country, “Kingdom of Scotland”. These two are what make the bipartite United Kingdom.
The partition of the Kingdom of Ireland made no legal change to that bipartite treaty for the remainder of Ireland was still part of the Kingdom of England having been annexed by That Kingdom by the “Crown of Ireland Act”, 1542. Wales also remained part of that same Kingdom of England by the, “Statute of Rhuddlan”, 1284. Neither did the, so called, Union of the Crowns, 1603, form a united Kingdom as both Kingdoms remained independent between 1603 and 1706/7.
The current Westminster Master Plan was begun by the Labour Party when they made such a bad job of devolving powers and first of all did so along the lines of four countries instead of as two Kingdoms. This effectively negated the Treaty of Union as it split the former bipartite union of Kingdoms into a union of four countries but it also failed to devolve all four United Kingdom countries equally. It left Westminster as the unelected de facto parliament of The Country of England. So Westminster is both the elected Parliament of the bipartite United Kingdom and simultaneously the unelected Parliament of the Country of England.
So now, today, we have the elected Parliament of The United Kingdom debating whether the unelected Parliament of the Country of England should not only have the legal right to devolve the powers of the unelected Parliament of the Country of England to the devolved parliaments of Scotland, Wales and N.I but now to debar the properly elected United Kingdom parliamentarians, from out with country of England, from interfering in matters the, unelected as such, English Parliamentarians deem as English only matters.
This while the de facto Parliament of the Country of England finances itself directly as the United Kingdom with United Kingdom Treasury funds. It also legislates for England and then tags on little additions to suit the other three countries. Now I may be wrong but that certainly looks to me as if we now have the master race of England ruling over the former United Kingdom’s three countries, deciding their block Grants, regulating those grants further by use of Barnett Consequentials and riding, rough shod, over the three, now subservient, devolved underling nations.
Wouldn’t it not be so simple to sort out by either making Westminster the real elected Parliament of England and setting up a proper, (smaller), Federal Parliament of the four UK countries with just, for example, Four First Ministers, Four Chancellors, Four Secretaries of State For Defence and perhaps a President. Set it up well away from any of the four countries parliaments.
Mind you I’d settle for an independent Scotland and the rest could please themselves
telling Westminster to FUCK OFF would be one acceptable answer
Ah! the inbreds of Sussex one of the many places dan saf, where a good nights entertainment is watching a dug chase it’s tail.
You can just picture them looking at the bonfire saying look at the big burny, look at the big burny,
I think the 45% are above bothering about this, mind you I did do a dance on a scaffold when I heard Thatcher died. Gary
It is quite obvious what the Daily Record has done. Far from supposing any sort of neutrality as their editorial suggests, their plan was quite clearly to make it seem as though there had been no developments on devolution and then concoct the “Vow” to make it seem like there had been a credible development.
In doing so, I think the aim was for the paper to appear triumphant. That it was the Daily Record that acted in the interest of Scotland, that they sealed further devolution and that they turned the tide of growing sentiment for independence. I suppose they hoped to garner increased circulation and reader figures as a result.
—
A Conservative group in the institute where I work decided to burn an effigy of Obama and some other left-leaning politicians a few years back. I believe they were expelled / fired. Pity the same can’t be done for Lewes. The burning of the Guy is a horrible tradition and I think it would be nicer if we didn’t burn any effigies. Make up for it by toasting some marshmallows or something 🙁
@desimond – that’s what I was asking – are folks doors ‘being kicked down’ for singing sectarian songs?
If the police are over-reacting, then it’s up to the solicitors to highlight this.
If you think all this effigy stuff is bad you should take a look
at this secret footage of the East Sussex Council’ Xmas party:
link to youtube.com
Each time I’m in a shop I hide the Records under a few copies of something more respectable such as the Daily Sport. Direct Action in protest at Devo Mince and Vowgate.
Seems east sussex produces wine and beer has a few tourist destinations and thats about it. So dont buy their beer or wine and don`t visit. Simples.
See No Devo, Hear No Devo, Speak No Devo:
That’s all very well, but What sort of Devo is the Daily Record asking for a cast-iron guarantee about?
Could it be:
Record View, DR, Sept 8, 08.18
The UK party leaders must spell out what extra powers Holyrood could get under Devo Max
Not just any old devo, lite, medium, skinny, half-fat, a bit of income tax devo, maybe some corporation tax devo, men in tin hats devo, but the full-fat devo.
The statement’s there, under the picture. You just have to look hard to find it.
Which makes their sense of entitlement in demanding a set of identifiable Devo-Max powers, but instead having to trumpet the wooly, say-nothing, mocked-up, signed-up-to,’feeble dribble’, masquerading as a Vow, as response to their foot-stamping, even more laughable.
O/T I see skeletors got his .scot domain up & running 🙁
If you want to know what Alex thinks of the Lewes episode have a listen to the last 15 minutes or so of ‘drivetime’ on radio Scotland.
He who has the last word laughs longest and the man is comedy gold tonight!
I live about ten miles from Lewes. The Bonfire Society (and bonfire societies generally down here) remind you very strongly of the Nazis in their Wandervogel antecedents – folk dancing, spurious pagan “traditions” and mindless right-wing bigotry.
Don’t deprive yourself of Harvey’s ale though. That would be a mistake.
liz says:
5 November, 2014 at 6:35 pm
@desimond – that’s what I was asking – are folks doors ‘being kicked down’ for singing sectarian songs?
If the police are over-reacting, then it’s up to the solicitors to highlight this.
________________
No, Liz, the police are not over-reacting, nor is anyone getting their doors kicked in for singing a song.
All this crap is being driven by certain folk with connections to Celtic Park and the Scottish branch of the Labour Party. People such as Michael McMahon who have anti-Scottish government agendas.
They shamelessly use groups such as Celtic’s Green Brigade to further their agendas while their colleagues are supping with members of the Orange Order and Glasgow City Council.
Divide and rule…..plain and simple…..Labour Party scum.
Just take a look at who’s trying to reignite this issue again –
Skeletor, on the orders of his London Labour masters.
😉
‘Now voters can make an informed choice’
A vow that guaranteed nothing, said nothing of import and that both the Record and WM unionist parties are disowning at a blinding rate of knots.
I hope they F**KING choke on their vow.
What do you expect from a London owned newspaper, we need our own Scottish based, and owned newspapers. Don’t buy the Daily Record, its black heart resides at Canary Wharf.
Alex Salmonds response to the Burning effigy was as is usual brilliant. My respect for him just keep a growing when I hear him responding like that, we are lucky to have him on our side.
Can you imagine what Jim Murphy would have made of it if it was him.
@Bob Sinclair
3 days off sick and a drycleaning bill for underpants?
Balaaargh says:
@James Caithness
It’s OK, someone grabbed a screenshot before the Council took it down…
link to twitter.com
I have a sneeky feeling Balaaargh that someone in East Sussex can NOT spell too well. I mean they put up a hashtag as #Lewesbonfire surely every one knows that loose is spelt loose NOT Lewes so surely the hashtag should be #loosebonfire or even #loserbonfire! 😛
If the First Minister burns, we all burn.
I’m Spartacus!
@ErinT says: 5 November, 2014 at 6:29 pm:
“The burning of the Guy is a horrible tradition and I think it would be nicer if we didn’t burn any effigies.”
Mind you, ErinT, those bonfires dan sarf are grand things for keeping certain peoples feet to.
;-))
@auld rock
i totally agree with you about sitting on top of a volcano,
the morris dancers are really starting to annoy me..burning nessie and alex salmond whats that all about?? talk about lighting the blue touch paper
It’s only a few years ago when English cities were on fire, stricken by riots and their bonfires were the genuine article. Alex Salmond was appealed to for assistance by sending Scottish Polis south to crack a few skulls,the man obliged and was the hero of the hour.
Riots were predicted in Scotland and AS was criticised at the time for weakening the force. We had no riots and even in the worst of the Thatcher years we had no riots.
These bigoted rustics haave short memories and would be advised to get back to what they do best, falling off farm gates for the tourists.
Personally I’m not losing any sleep over the effigy thing
It says far more about them than it does Alex Salmond or any of us
Graeme
@Fred
At the time of the riots dear old anti-beeb reported them as being british riots totally ignoring the fact that there was no riots in N.Ireland,Wales or Scotland.
Eventually they reported them as english riots after a flood of complaints.
I have noticed in newsagents recently that the Daily Record stock always seems to have its front page turned over so that the sports page is on view & not the front headlines. It seems that the Scottish public cannot even bear to look at the rag’s front page anymore!
The Guardian now has an article about Lewes (no comments, alas) by Severin Carrell, whose knowledge of English geography seems to be on a par with his understanding of Scotland, since he refers to Lewes as being “on the south coast”; it isn’t, though East Sussex does have a coast.
He does reveal, however, that an effigy of Gordon Brown was burned there some years ago. I don’t think that makes it any more acceptable, but perhaps the bias is more pro-Tory than anything else (they’re doing Barroso tonight as well).
Perhaps the good people of Lewes shouldn’t limit their antics to burning effigies, but do the entire town whilst they’re at it!
@Lesley-Anne
Ach the halfwits who put that stunt together don’t matter. When we overturn Septembers result they’ll be the first ones kicking in WMs front door when their tax bill takes a sudden hike and their coin of them realm drops off a cliff. 🙂
I think we should be grateful to those misguided folk down south.
Why?
Well for getting us some more support, but above all for giving Alex the opportunity to show, (once again), how a real class politican deals with things like this!
I know who the losers are!
The inhabitants of Lewes in East Sussex are morons.
Then again, what does that say about the many that voted No and give succour to the infantile playground antics of the people of Lewes?
They’re burning two effigies of Alex in Lewes tonight. The second one has Alex barechested, wearing a Union Jack. Hmmm the good folk of Lewes seem a tad confused re Scottish politics!
What really strikes me about the Lewes episode is how the media and establishment are such profound hypocrites. If they constantly frame Scottish independence and Alex Salmond as synonymous, then what do they expect people to think when an affluent Sussex constituency burns an effigy with Alex Salmond wearing a Yes badge & holding a 45% spoon? Either Indy=Salmond all the time, or Indy=/=Salmond all the time. You don’t get to pick and choose whether Alex Salmond represents only Alex Salmond or the SNP, or whether he represents the entire cause of Scottish self-determination. He does or he doesn’t. Any attack on him is either ALWAYS only on him, or ALWAYS on independence.
Make no mistake, this is NOT just an effigy of Alex Salmond Lewes are burning: this is an effigy of ALL pro-independence Scots.
link to wildernessofpeace.wordpress.com
In fact, it was a canny move to publish that hollow text just two days before the referendum. Because it seems, at first sight – and the title tops that impression – that there is something solid in it. So it stroke the readers, and they thought the three WM parties had committed themselves to an irreversible process towards Devo. (Could also have been title “the commitment”, by the way).
Yet, when one looks at the text with a clear and analytical mind, it is obvious that this is – like most political pamphlets – a simple juxtaposition of vague promises and havers. But that rational and dispassionate analysis could not have been carried out in just 24 hours, with all the energy and excitement then prevailing. And even if it could have been, there was no way to counteract the “thalamic” effect in such a short lapse of time. And so, people ended up voting on a feeling…
Sorry folks, way OT,
I was just browsing through some past U Tube archives and watched the Jane Freeman interview with Andrew Neil. Boy did she put him squarely in his place over NHS privatisation issues.
It strikes me folks, don’t we have some really outstanding women in the YES movement?.
Aye you’re probably right Macart. I have to admit I’m hoping dear old BBC will be giving full coverage and hours and hours of coverage to the event soon to be known as the Lewes door kickin’, or should that be Lewes door kick in. 😛
Looking at the vow, the only definite (as I see it) thing that was said, was that the Scottish Parliament is permanent. All else is completely subjective. More woolly a document you could not hope to find. Who is to say a wee bit more tax varying ‘power’ is not substantive.
As an aside, was something not meant to happen with the timetable on Hallowe’en? Did I miss it? Or did they?
@willie fae kilwinning who posted at 5.47
loved the video and even created a special post for it.
Didn’t forget to thank you!!
link to eurofree3.wordpress.com
@Bob Sinclair
3 days off sick and a drycleaning bill for underpants?
———-
No wonder Murphy’s expenses are sky high. Dry cleaning? Just stick them in the wash like any normal person!
Not too bothered about the Alex Salmond effigy, after all how many Thatchers did we burn while she was still alive?
What does irk and I find offensive is the attachment of the 45%. That is attacking 1.6 million people.
Oh and as for Nessie, totally wrong!
Just saw the images of the second effigy of Alex Salmond getting paraded through the streets of Lewes. It does have a bit of a William Wallace feel to it. Hard to believe we voted to be ruled by these people.
I doubt this one will get as much news coverage as the first. It would double the SNP membership overnight.
Sarwar promoted to the shadow cabinet, every man has his price.
Politicians get their effigies burned all the time but in burning the 45% they are burning the ordinary voter and in burning Nessie they are burning Scotland.
Better Together? I don’t think so.
O/T Watching the London protests on RT live feed…. they have just arrived outside….. BBC headquarters!
Lewes is the town in East Sussex where they love burning stuff this time of year.
It’s a major annual event and a real spectacle to behold. They usually have something controversial but I think they are crossing they line. I find it disappointing to find another example of the confused ideas which sprung from how the indy campaign was depicted down south.
The confusion lies in that independent thinkers in Scotland generally have no issue with the people of England. The English suffer the indignity of Westminster in similar ways to the Scots, remember they were burning their cities not that long ago, students marching against elitist fees for education. Deprivation is rife in the UK but witness sharp suited Tory politicians telling us all is is great since the opposition is dead as a parrot, preparing to ride roughshod over civil liberty and the imminent EU exit. ( Thanks Daily Record and the No Alliance )
Lewes in East Sussex did give the world Thomas Paine. Please have a look at his Common Sense on Wiki.
Maybe we need ‘Common Sense for the 21st century’ ?
The old Russ Abbot nonsense is getting a bit boring, like a box of damp matches.
@ tombee – Yes, the Jeane Freeman interview is a wee gem! She puts him firmly in his place…. And, yes, I have always said the women are incredible, there are too many to list, but you instantly think of Carol Fox, Michelle Thomson, Jeane Freeman, Elaine C. Smith, Lesley Riddoch, Edinburgh Castle girl, Cat Boyd… and that’s even before you get to the likes of wee Nicola and other SNP politicians. Even Tommy Sheridan’s nine-year-old is a guid wee speaker.*
* If anyone watched the livestream tonight from George Square (Glasgow Million Mask March), there was a brilliant speech given by a wee lad who must have been only about nine or ten years old!
@ tombee – 8:41
We certainly do honey, we certainly do!
Thatcher effigies were burned because she did real, demonstrable harm to hundreds of thousands of people, devastated communities, was complicit in cover-ups, colluded with war criminals, and committed war crimes. Same with Cameron, Blair, and any other number of the usual suspects for effigy burning. Alex Salmond’s done none of those things: about the worst you could attribute to him was his associations with Trump & Murdoch.
What has Alex Salmond done to the people of Lewes that could possibly justify an effigy? Taking up all the news with his silly referendum? Spreading “division” in a town that still flies “No Popery” banners? Daring to be a greater statesman than the Prime Minister (not that that’s difficult)? That said, Lewes has a weird history of effigies: they’ve done Bin Laden, Condoleeza Rice, George Bush, even David Cameron & Nick Clegg. I think they’re just trolls, personally.
Alex Salmond’s a big man who can take it. But as you say, the 45% was on it too, and as long as the media keep pushing Alex Salmond as the face of independence, any attack on Alex Salmond – following their own rules – is an attack on Scottish independence. And I’m going to treat it as such until they either accept that independence is NOT all about Alex Salmond, or they at least have the guts to attack Scottish independence supporters directly without going through Salmond.
I just want a bit of consistency from these people.
Seconded. Thomas Paine is one of my absolute heroes. Though I will say, Thomas Paine at least had the sense to get the hell out of Lewes! 😛
After 35 days and only one reminder, Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North & Leith) has responded to my email regarding ‘more powers’ vows. It’s a long one but you can jump to my summary at the bottom.
The relevant parts of my email were as follows:-
“…powers promised took the form of either –
a) Devo Max (Alastair Darling, ‘Scotland Decides’ BBC Scotland 09 September)
b) Home Rule (“near federalism”) (Gordon Brown, Loanhead, 08 September)
My understanding of these terms is that they traditionally mean:
Home Rule – the government of a colony, dependent country, or region by its own citizens.
Devo max – Full fiscal autonomy / devolution of all powers except foreign affairs and defence.
The aforementioned powers (up to and including Devo Max / HR) were promised by Better Together representatives, presumably with the authority of the UK Government and the Labour Party. If authority was exceeded, BT issued no statements to clarify that this was the case.
My questions to you are as follows –
1. Do you believe that there is room for re-interpretation of the generally agreed terms ‘Devo Max’ and ‘Home Rule’ ?
2. Under what circumstances would it be appropriate for the two main parties (who co-operated so effectively to protect the Union before the referendum) to renege on delivery of either Devo Max or Home Rule?
3. Do you believe that the ‘more powers’ offer was in breach of the ‘purdah’ period? If not, why not?
4. Do you believe that, if Devo Max or Home Rule in their true sense are NOT delivered, the referendum result would be invalid?”
** Response **
Dear ‘BigSteveChisholm’
…With regard to the points you make, I am not sure that there is general agreement on the terms ‘Devo Max’ and ‘Home Rule’. For my part, I would like to support extensive further devolution of powers to the Scottish Parliament and Government. I am confident that this will be delivered. If they are not, I am sure that this would be taken into account by the voters in future elections in Scotland.
As far as the referendum result being valid is concerned, I think that all parties have accepted the result. As regards the suggestion that the ‘more powers’ offer was in breach of the ‘purdah’ period, I have no reason to believe that it was given the offer was made by the Party leaders, not the government, and I am not aware of anyone having made an official complaint that it was.
My own view on what should happen now is set out in an article on my website, which you can find HERE
Thank you once again for writing to me with your views. I hope that like me you will welcome that the timetable for action on further powers has been met so far.
Regards
Mark Lazarowicz
MP for Edinburgh North & Leith
***
Just to sum that up.
Devo Max doesn’t mean Devo Max. Home Rule doesn’t mean Home Rule.
Don’t build your hopes up, folks.
The Lib/Lab/Con Parties promised more powers, NOT the UK Government.
I think we’ll hear a lot more of this one. It’s the same excuse Tam Jardine was given by the Electoral Commission in his excellent ‘hat’ post yesterday. Party line, methinks.
Nobody has made an official complaint about breach of ‘purdah’.
Any Wingers care to contradict Mr Lazarowicz?
The First Minister responds to the Lewes ‘burning issue’ with humour;
link to facebook.com
@smout
i think youre missing the point here..thatcher effigy was burned as a way of saying we wont pay your poll tax..alex salmond hasnt put a tax on england a year before it comes into scotland..hes insignificant to them..this is just a way of saying up yours scotland and your independence
There will be many ‘Proud Scots’ who will absolutely love what is happening in Lewes. It appeals to their self-loathing serfdom.
Wooly?
Nah
Furray & Moot (with an e)
Yeah, they may be a bit mentally challenged, and they may love burning stuff, but when that stuff tends to be a innocent member of the public just for voting Yes, (And when I say innocent member of the public, I actually mean me), I find that quite offensive.
I know Alex Salmond will not be in the slightest bothered by the effigy they are burning, but the 45 is outrageous. Of course in small minded Lewes in East Sussex, where the small minded bigots of England live, the very notion of ‘those uppity jocks’ actually having a say in their own country, is just not on.
I really think what they are doing sums up to me EXACTLY why Scotland needs to dissociate itself from English Westminster rule ASAP. These people in Lewes clearly despise the Scots, Scotland, democracy and Nessie.
For ALL the world to see, the throughly nasty, racist, bigotted, stupid people of East Sussex, the arsehole of England. No wonder UKIP are doing well down there.
Oh HAPPY day. Every day that goes by now deposits in our lap some miscalculation or faux pas which strengthens our resolve, and feeds the psyche of the Scottish public with new reasons to despise Murphy and those south of the Border. Murphy plays the sectarian card hoping to reel in the lowest denominator of society, and the English try to be clever by burning not Alec, but a representation of the aspirations of 1.6 million or more Scots. We have won they think! You just don’t know the Scottish mentality dear people of England. Our time will come when as a free Nation we will send food bags to fill the need which is most definitely coming your way.
Jeez, a different thread, a different lost part of my life.
Steal the car but, one piece at a time.
link to tinyurl.com
@Nana Smith
So the siller has begun to be paid out. Although it`s a job with no prospects.
Marcia says:
The First Minister responds to the Lewes ‘burning issue’ with humour;
link to facebook.com
Pure GENIUS from the man that is the ONLY world class leader in the U.K.
After watching the interview clip Marcia I can’t stop thinking about this:
link to tinyurl.com
All you need do is swap Johnny for Alex and swap out the screaming female for Cameron, Clegg AND Milliband! 😛
well said Taranaich, and your blog is great, just the way I feel about these inbreds down in Lewes. Everything they seem to do has a racist twist and this is no exception.
They are just going that step further than all the verbal racism Scots have suffered this year from our neighbours, so much for Better Together
The effigy burning has been axed.
Good work on this again.
As someone who has avoided the Record like the plague for years, I was totally unaware of the 8th September piece. This makes the vow even more pathetic.
Weasel words also regarding Barnett. It will continue to when? June2015?
Can you imagine an SNP council burning an effigy of even Nigel Farange and a symbol of England? I feel that we are generations of ahead of the English. If we have to be better together with another country, why can’t it be Norway or Sweden?!?
BTW, the FB page for Waterloo Bonfire society has been overrun with comments from disgusted Scots like me, just letting them know.
@kenny and Paula Rose,
The list of our lassies in the YES side is endless. We do not promote their contribution any where near enough.
Effigy not burned.
link to archive.today
@Training Day
I don`t care that any `Uncle Tam` Unionist apologists say we should see the funny side and it is just English humour and don`t get your sporran in a twist.
This is pure racism,it offends thousands of Scottish men and women to see their country their culture their people stereotyped and mocked by a foreign country that thinks it is superior to us Scots.
Robert Louis, I agree with all that, but unfortunately, this kind of xenophobic hatred is what passes for humour in more places than Lewes.
Kenny has hit the nail, we are far more evolved. Just look at the talent we have now in Indy writers, look at the breadth of age, breadth of views, but we work looking to one goal.
They are stuck with their limited IQ, when this is what they come up with.
@Taranaich and @Scunnered
My apologies if you thought I was comparing the two. I was only pointing out that our politicians, or our opinions of them, should not be too precious.
I completely agree, Alex Salmond has not inflicted anything on the people of East Sussex, or to the people of Scotland. I witnessed the decline during Thatcher in Glasgow, I was 13 when she came to power, and the changes she wrought on my home city was heartbreaking.
I admire and respect Salmond, something that I cannot say about very many other folk, and I can think of much better effigies to be burnt.
Question . . . How does one inspire non-wingers to deliver a boycott of the Record?
No point in a committed minority being in the know – how do we get it out there?
There are plenty of non Wingers carrying out boycotts of the rags and the products etc. Certainly via FB. Harder to get to those not on the net
Glad to see that they were stopped from Nessie as well.
I have never heard so much crap in all my life. Apparently the effigies of Alex Salmond were never meant to be burned. I take it they were just made to sit on the mantelpiece then.
You could not make this crap up.
Daily uploaded recording of someone burning the Daily Record from now on.
Incendiary activism.
And a link please.
burning, being the missing verb of course.
It seems from the report link to archive.today that burning effegies of living people is considered a ‘family activity’ in both Sussex and Kent!
Hi fellow wingers. Just some info to cheer you up. Checked sales figures of newspapers. Sunday Herald up 111%,whilst Daily Rag,is down 15% from this time last year. They still sell over 200,000,but dropping by the week. P.S.THEY NO LONGER SUPPLY DIRECT TO Ireland AS OUR FELLOW CELTS STOPPED BUYING IT IN September. YIPPEE!!!!. Only a matter of time.
They may take oor Eck.
They may take oor lives.
But they will never take oor NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSIE.
🙂
If you missed the Reporting Story on this, it’s at the link below. Apologies for the sound being a few milliseconds out of sync.
link to youtube.com
This second video provides the story of the cancellation of the burning, with a rather nicely generated computer voice.
link to youtube.com
After the deceitful, last minute debacle of the Scottish Referendum where democratic principles were ruthlessly thwarted, Scotland must re-examine how to conduct election behaviour with or without Westminster intervention. The so called division of Labour will become permanent… a Westminster based Union party devoted to ‘British’ interests… and the ILP the Independent Labour Party… exclusively committed to Scottish interests.
It is now clear that the national Scottish media, particularly print, dismissed all pretension of impartiality and we can no tolerate the position that it is their absolute freedom to do so, such is their effect on voter perception and decision. Yes, we must always defend free speech but there must be some degree of a balanced reporting and opinion casting during elections, since there is none to date and certainly there are fair and just ways to do this. Fortunately and with due irony, newsprint is in rapid decline while having made enemies of 66% of the Scottish citizenry, who now use the fast growing propensity for communicating via social media, this being hyper-democratic and well out of the reach of press barons.
While control of print media expression is neither desirable nor possible, we can control electronic media I.E. television. The airwaves are a publicly owed commodity and we therefore can and should impose defined responsibilities of impartial exposure to political platforms during election periods, on all purchasers and users of the airwaves.
Additionally we must recognized that both covert and open institutional bias is well established and deeply entrenched now, as part of the ‘electoral game’. Think tanks, ‘business’ associations’, ‘policy’ organizations, political action groups often funded at arms length by political parties or worse. Paid for comments and opinions by individuals described as ‘experts’, at universities and other respected institutions thus giving a false image of institutional backing. Corporate and institutional donations and influence particularly from outside Scotland should be ended.
We also must consider that given that independence is the most important decision for Scotland since 300 years, it should follow that only Scots should vote to determine their future. A simple legal definition of a Scot would be that he or she should be born in Scotland, be 16+ and have lived in Scotland at least 12 months prior to the referendum. There are approximately 400,00O English born persons and 80.000 migrant workers resident in the country who constitute roughly 11% of the current voting population of 4.2 million and their predisposition to remain attached to the UK is both predicable, understandable and by no means unreasonable. We wish to offend no one and welcome qualified immigrants into our country but it is and must remain our country and only Scots should determine this.
The fact was that the ‘NO’ vote had approximately an 11% lead before the first ballot dropped meaning that all they finally needed was 40% of the 3,792,000 remainder, while the ‘YES’ vote had to win at least 61%of the remainder. Was this Fair! After the debacle of the Scottish referendum whereby almost all the principles of democratic election were thwarted and thus a true verdict rendered impossible, we must begin to re-establish with absolute resolution what is and is not permitted. With or without Westminster intervention or approval. Only qualified political parties competing exclusively in Scotland for power should be eligible.
BigSteveChisholm
Nobody has made an official complaint about breach of ‘purdah’.Any Wingers care to contradict Mr Lazarowicz?
I suppose my email to the Electoral Comission you mentioned was an official complaint about breach of purdah and I’m sure I am not alone. Mibbe if I’d mocked up a big scroll it would have looked more official.
The impression I had before the referendum was that the Electoral Comission had a role in ensuring not just the letter of the law but the spirit of the law was upheld and they would do everything in their power to ensure the public were given a chance to make a clear informed decision.
As it now appears clear, all their remit is to facilitate a referendum – the initial question bearing no relation to the imagined final question being neither here nor there, monstrous bias in the press and BBC being neither here nor there and interference illicited from every man and his fucking dog by the Westminster government being neither here nor there.
Westminster can use the foreign office to apply pressure (pleading? Cash?) to Obama, the Russians, the Chinese, every major government, large multinational corporations and UK institutions to threaten the people of Scotland with international isolation, financial ruin and irrelevance.
Of course what the morons in Westminster never got their heads around was this: their conduct during the referendum would have almost as great a bearing on the relationship between Scotland and the rest of the UK as the result itself.
This scorched earth policy of trying to destroy the Yes campaign through propaganda, scaremongering and smears has destroyed the union in the process of saving it. And like a hillside covered in gorse that is burnt to the ground, it soon becomes fertile soil for new growth.
By leaving the Scottish population feeling cheated again, they are guaranteeing the desire for independence will grow.
I too live in Mark Lazarowizc’ manor Steve. With 53% of his constituents voting Yes he will have a fight on his hands getting back in in May.
The effigies were never meant to be burned?
When I went to Lewes in about 1977, the most highly-regarded society (which may have been Waterloo; I can’t remember) certainly did set fire to their “tableau”, which was a model of the Houses of Parliament, with a huge Arab sheikh from the chest up looming over it, with a money bag in each hand. His eyes were Catherine wheels, and eventually the whole thing exploded, revealing a burning wooden framework inside.
So either Health and Safety regulations have caught up with them, or they are back-pedalling frantically.
Slabs mantra:Ours is not to reason why. Ours is to do and lie.
@ Graham Simpson
” it should follow that only Scots should vote to determine their future. A simple legal definition of a Scot would be that he or she should be born in Scotland, be 16+ and have lived in Scotland at least 12 months prior to the referendum”
Sorry, Graham, but I take great exception to that. My ancestors were Scots, by your definition; my mother chose that I should be born in England. Once I ceased to be dependent on her, I came back and I have been here for decades.
I spent hundreds of hours and thousands of pounds campaigning for independence and I intend to be part of any continuation of that campaign.
The only person of my acquaintance who to my knowledge voted No was born in Scotland with English parents. You want her to vote next time and me not?
No apology necessary. Certainly Alex doesn’t seem remotely bothered by it – he’s had to put up with Steve Bell cartoons, after all – but the minute they slapped a 45 & Yes onto him, it became something different, and encapsulated this infuriating conflation of Alex Salmond with independence: one that I think even the First Minister would dispute.
I can, however, be a wee bit defensive of the First Minister, largely because it’s impossible not to. When just about every newspaper and Westminster politician is out to get you, it’s hard not to root for him out of the underdog principle – though in this case, he’s the Rocky type of “underdog”!
They have burned a fair few effigies down there over the years including one of Brown. The notion that they didn’t intend to burn either of the effigies tonoght sounds far fetched. A call from No 10 perhaps?
PS am just going to rig up an effigy of Scotland 2014 out the back garden. Nice balanced report there.
It really is something when BBC Scotland takes the side of people prepared to burn effigies representing our First Minister, the leader of Scotland’s largest political party and figurehead of 45% of the population of our country, bearing the symbols of the 45% and a Yes badge (burning representations of ourselves) and Nessie, a representation of our country.
My daughter does not know who Alex Salmond is but she does know of Nessie and she did not consider it a lighthearted joke that some hopeless racists would want to burn her effigy.
I can only hope that Nessie appears during the night having made her way into the Clyde and runs amock through Pacific Quay with our First Minister astride the Great Leviathan’s back. It would be a fitting end to that discredited organisation – to be dragged into the Clyde by 2 Scottish Nationalist behemoths.
@BigSteveChisholm – re Mark Lazarowicz, he’s wrong about no-one being sure what Devomax is cos the SNP have poll figures from Panelbase, what Scotland thinks.
link to whatscotlandthinks.org
If you listen to the second video link I gave above, and from comments on Facebook, the effigies were taken into police custody so they couldn’t be burned.
This was as a result of direct complaints to the East Sussex police, according to what I’ve read.
Re the effigy of wee Eck.
Get a grip, folks. As someone else posted on Scot Goes Pop, we are in danger of disappearing up our own arses. There is some ridiculous ultra-politically correct hyperbole being uttered : “racist”, “racial hatred”. We are meant to be living in a liberal democracy with freedom of speech, expression & assembly. The effigy may be distasteful, at worst (to some) offensive. Hurt feelings do not amount to a crime.
I suspect if the effigy was of Cameron, Clegg or (back in the day) Thatcher, few here would be complaining about it. What’s next : banning books, newspapers or magazines because they have “offensive” stories or pictures about nationalists? Are people forgetting the disgraceful way the Danish people, government & their embassies worldwide were treated a few years ago because of a cartoon in a private magazine that allegedly “offended” Muslims? Who decides what’s “offensive”? You’re on the slippery slope to censorship & dictatorship.
Eck has been quoted making light of the effigy (no pun intended). If anything, it’s a micro-example of why all that the we heard during the referendum about a “family of nations”, “lovebombing” et al. was, to a large number of people down south, horseshit.
Re the Record & the Vow – great work Stu, keep exposing them. Rather than grasping the opportunity to be a grown-up nation & advocating Yes to exercise full control over our future, “Scotland’s Champion” would rather we have to ‘ask’ WM to ‘grant’ us powers. In the political universe the Record inhabits, we are the Oliver Twist of nations : “Please, sir, I want more”.
Alec was excellent as always about matters of this nature .
Maybe Lewes thought they would hold AS ” feet to the fire ”
Tonight’s news implies it did not happen .
People Power ? F@@@ All to with the Daily Retard .
Good luck tae the lassie going to the Sunday Herald .
Some great comments tonight.
Thought I’d chuck this into the mix – stumbled across it accidentally after losing the link for it many months ago:
‘For whatever value our culture has it is ours, and like Sorely MacLean once said about the Gaelic language, even if it was a poor thing, it would still be loved, and those who used it would still have the desire to see it flourish.’ James Kelman
link to nationalcollective.com
My suggestion for Chris’s cartoon this week.
Lewes, East sussex
twinned with Westboro Baptist Church.
According to someone who lives in Lewes at least one of the effigies was burned – so who to believe??
It’s not so much AS, he took it in good part as expected, it’s the whole spectacle, it’s really weird.
A couple of years ago they apparently burned a ‘gypsy’ caravan with a painted family inside and they have a procession with burning crucifixes – it’s too much like the KKK.
I didn’t have any anti English feelings at all before the 18th of September…
Oh my gawd!
I’m just watching Daily Politics from earlier today and lo and behold there in the flesh is the one, the only I’m not a furriner herself dear old Margaret “stairheid rammy” Curran. What is she talking about oh that’s easy … E.U. furriners! 😛
Democracy Reborn
“What’s next : banning books, newspapers or magazines because they have “offensive” stories or pictures about nationalists?”
Sorry Democracy – me being offended by racists is not meant to imply that I want books banned or freedom of speech shut down. I do not.
You mibbe have a slightly rose tinted view of the UK if you think we live in a country blessed with freedom of speech though. I can think of one publication offensive to die hard unionists that was not mentioned during the campaign despite a print run of, what 300,000 plus god knows how many downloads.
Anyway – my post was not about the folk of lewes- it was about Scotland 2014 dismissing the whole thing as 1 big joke when the butts of that joke are the symbols of the nation they are meant to represent, and when the East Sussex Police thought there were grounds to remove the effigies before they could be burnt.
@Democracy Reborn
`We are meant to be living in a liberal democracy with freedom of speech, expression & assembly.`
Have you been living in a hole for the last year,jeezo this is not a democracy this is a plutocracy , our problem is we just accept it like good little natives and so their attitudes do not change.
If we had not voiced our disapproval they would have burnt these offencive effigies .
the freedom of expression is void if that expression is not heard.
speaking and being heard go hand in hand.
an anti WM protest held on top of merick is useless.
@Scot Finlayson
I haven’t been living in any hole for the past year. I’m well aware of the limitations on democracy in the UK. That’s why I said “meant” to be living in a liberal democracy. Freedom of speech, thought & expression carries with it, on occassion, the right to “offend”. You want to restrict the right of expression because you “disapprove”, whilst simultaneously complaining the UK restricts democratic rights. Contradictory? I repeat : disapproval or taking offence are no grounds for curtailing freedom. I may be “offended” & disgusted by a right-wing Tory collectively calling the unemployed & single mothers lazy, work-shy benefit-scroungers. But I would never censor their right to say it.
And for what it’s worth, the American Civil Liberties Union has acted for the Ku Klux Klan in various freedom of speech lawsuits.
@Cuilean says:
I have noticed in newsagents recently that the Daily Record stock always seems to have its front page turned over so that the sports page is on view & not the front headlines. It seems that the Scottish public cannot even bear to look at the rag’s front page anymore!
That’s funny.
The last time I was in Tesco’s, someone had put a bunch of Suns over the Record.
There is real contempt for it out there.
I’ve had a bit of a think on these Redneck East Sussex people burning stuff, and i’ve come to the conclusion that while polititions and the like may be quite used to this behaviour from these people, i’m not, because i am one of the 45% of the ordinary people they want to burn, and as i’ve explained a number of times before my mother was in fact English so i’m well aware of how racist the English are. That’s why i’ve always been ashamed to carry a British Passport, because as previously explained i’ve lived and worked in various countries in my life and to carry that Passport means you are English to foreigners, not their fault for thinking that i hasten to add but true and of all the countries i have visited the reaction once realised i was Scottish was always a complete and total reversal of attitude of, at the very mildest, indifference, to “Oh we love Scottish people” then the explanations come as to why they can’t stand the English
On my travels i have found that America is the most disliked with England a close second
Thing is, my mother knew this, but did’nt care because in her opinion all foreigners were inferior anyway
Now i’m not having a go at all English people because we know they’re not all like this, i’m having a go at the sensible ones for putting up with the rest of their misguided countrymen, cause you know who they are, “Refusal to even try to learn the language of the country they live in” The furriners should all learn English, you’ve heard them “Refusal to accept the laws of the country they live in” would’nt happen in England, i could go on all day, So listen England why don’t you try to get along with your neighbours and not be like Americans and then all the nasty furriners might stop disliking you so much
As for most Scots i look forward to the day when we just ignore you, a bit like the Swedes and the Danes and the Swiss and Well i think you get the point
“They have burned a fair few effigies down there over the years including one of Brown.”
The funny thing is, Guy Fawkes was the original rebel against the British authority, but in recent years, burning an effigy usually turned into a political figure from the RULING political party.
Caricatures of Thatcher, Cameron, Brown etc
Burning an effigy of Salmond, YES&45 symbols, Nessie etc just seems strange, and did look somehow anti-Scottish, even if Salmond just laughed it off.
Triumphalism rather than protest.
Democracy Reborn 12.46am
We do have laws against incitement to violence in this country, you know. Burning people in effigy and copying the practices of the KKK is a clear statement of a desire to be able to burn and lynch people. The fact that they don’t actually go out and do just that is not some kind of justification for their expression of the desire to do it. Believe me, if they thought they could get away with it, they would, and they’d do it while you were busy pontificating about their rights.
Protecting freedom of speech is not the same as having a fence post rammed so firmly up your arse that you can no longer distinguish between right and wrong.
Democracy Reborn, these arseholes in Lewes have form. This was a deliberate and disgusting attack – YET AGAIN – on this country’s FM, and totally unwarranted, as well as a jibe at Yes voters.
I agree with Dr Jim, this low level is encouraged by large sections down south, hence the bloody inexorable rise of UKIP!
We have to set and maintain high standards or that shit will be here. How about we had set about burning effigies of Darling, Brown etc. What would the Press and the English said then? Oh but look, we are losing our sense of humour because we object to this racist shit tonight.
It is racist, and I’m not disappearing up my arse. It’s called calling out, and I’m pleased to see many agree, and something has happened to stop them burning the effigies.
Mr Salmond’s response, showing more dry good humour than the citizens of Lewes may have expected, was finished off nicely with a well-phrased barb “…. but if they think I’m a threat to the Westminster establishment, like Guy Fawkes – they’re right”.
I stopped reading the Daily Reptile in the 60’s and became an avid broadsheet reader and a Glasgow Herald buff. I used to correspond with the Herald on a regular basis. Then all of a sudden they stopped printing my letters. It got so I could not stand the editorial changes since the days of Arnold Kemp. At the start of the Referendum campaign I stopped reading all of the press in disgust. I only started buying the Sunday Herald again when they came out for Independence. I find that they are still lacking in the cultural and history department. The Herald is difficult to read online and I refuse to pay them. The Hootsmon is disgusting, but their online forum is easy to use, despite it being inhabited by Unionist knuckledraggers who obviously belong to the Daily Record mentality. I only use it to fight back at them and theior journalists disgust me also.
WOS seems top be the only reliable quality medium with quality research. If you want to read about the tries state of GeeBee you have to read the continental papers, particularly Germany and France. The Yookay Press are notoriously jingoistic and true inheritors of Perfidious Albion. Glad to see that Germany is telling them aufweidersoff. Glad to hear oor Celtic cousins in Ireland have dumped the Record and wonder why the Scots are still so brainwashed and so full of self loathing, self hatred and self racism.
I don’t think we need to go to the South of Engerland to Salmond and Nessie burners. It is even worse to se natives to full of hatred for our own culture. What a perfect colony.
I stopped reading the Daily Reptile in the 60’s and became an avid broadsheet reader and a Glasgow Herald buff. I used to correspond with the Herald on a regular basis. Then all of a sudden they stopped printing my letters. It got so I could not stand the editorial changes since the days of Arnold Kemp. At the start of the Referendum campaign I stopped reading all of the press in disgust. I only started buying the Sunday Herald again when they came out for Independence. I find that they are still lacking in the cultural and history department. The Herald is difficult to read online and I refuse to pay them. The Hootsmon is disgusting, but their online forum is easy to use, despite it being inhabited by Unionist knuckledraggers who obviously belong to the Daily Record mentality. I only use it to fight back at them and theior journalists disgust me also.
WOS seems top be the only reliable quality medium with quality research. If you want to read about the tries state of GeeBee you have to read the continental papers, particularly Germany and France. The Yookay Press are notoriously jingoistic and true inheritors of Perfidious Albion. Glad to see that Germany is telling them aufweidersoff. Glad to hear oor Celtic cousins in Ireland have dumped the Record and wonder why the Scots are still so brainwashed and so full of self loathing, self hatred and self racism.
I don’t think we need to go to the South of Engerland to Salmond and Nessie burners. It is even worse to se natives to full of hatred for our own culture. What a perfect colony.
I stopped reading the Daily Reptile in the 60’s and became an avid broadsheet reader and a Glasgow Herald buff. I used to correspond with the Herald on a regular basis. Then all of a sudden they stopped printing my letters. It got so I could not stand the editorial changes since the days of Arnold Kemp. At the start of the Referendum campaign I stopped reading all of the press in disgust. I only started buying the Sunday Herald again when they came out for Independence. I find that they are still lacking in the cultural and history department. The Herald is difficult to read online and I refuse to pay them. The Hootsmon is disgusting, but their online forum is easy to use, despite it being inhabited by Unionist knuckledraggers who obviously belong to the Daily Record mentality. I only use it to fight back at them and theior journalists disgust me also.
WOS seems top be the only reliable quality medium with quality research. If you want to read about the tries state of GeeBee you have to read the continental papers, particularly Germany and France. The Yookay Press are notoriously jingoistic and true inheritors of Perfidious Albion. Glad to see that Germany is telling them aufweidersoff. Glad to hear oor Celtic cousins in Ireland have dumped the Record and wonder why the Scots are still so brainwashed and so full of self loathing, self hatred and self racism.
I don’t think we need to go to the South of Engerland to Salmond and Nessie burners. It is even worse to se natives to full of hatred for
Again, well said Natashia (and many others I am glad to say!).
Pop across to Scot goes Pop, one effigy of Alex Salmond seems to have been stuffed with fireworks and blown up after all.
Apparently over 80 people were injured during these ‘celebrations’, two reported blinded. What on earth passes for entertainment in that town?
Several excellent posts there,Donald.
@ onwards/cuilean
Ah, a small piece of painless inadvertent civil disobedience. I will try when I am in the supermarket to cover the Daily Rangers with Suns. Inadvertently of course.
davidb etc,
these little gestures are extremely important for keeping our cause to the fore.
The Daily Record doesn’t allow comments since the ‘VOW’ because of what their former readers want to tell them. Many people access media websites for the comments not the article. People like to see the offending ‘journalist’ put straight. Right will always conquer might, especially at the ballot box. Former readers will always remember the Record failure to tell the truth. The Record will become a dismal failure like the rest of them.
The public is crying out for a balanced view that reflects their views, and want a paper thry can read and identify. None exists. That is why the websites like Wings are so successful and the MSM is tanking. People are really angry about this and are really angry with crooked politicians who lie and cheat at every opportunity.
People want a free press, not on controlled by Westminster.
The Unionist liars were at it again saying, ‘Scotland will have to put up taxes if it was Independent. That is completely untrue. In fact the opposite could be true. Taxes could com down if Scotland controlled spending and still eradicate poverty. Scotland could save £1.5Billion on a tax on ‘loss leading’ drink – make savings on public spending and social services. Scotland could save £1,5Billion on illegal wars/Trident. Scotland could save £4Billion repayments on money it doesnt borrow or spend, (repayments UK treasury takes but doesn’t pay off the deficit) Or Scotland could pay off any Defict and make saving that way. Scotland could put revenues raised to better use boosting the Scottish economy. Have a navy/army force based in Scotland.
Scotland could save £10Billion a year, or put it to good use eradicating poverty, by implementing better policies. These policies could make saving from better benefits.
The rest of the UK is borrowing and spending £10Billion a year more (pro rata) on the private sector. Putting the Westminster debt up, and expecting Scotland to make the (pro rata) repayments. The UK Treasury do not pay down the deficit but spend the money.
Scotland would be far better off Independent, and by changing spending policies would not have to put up taxes but could eradicate poverty. If taxes were put up to protect the vulnerable or make Scotland a better place to live many people would be happy to cough up. The political Parties could put it in a Manifesto and stick to it, unlike Westminster. The unequal Union were Scotland pays higher taxes on the major industrial sector, and spends (pro rata) less than the rest of the
UK. Multinationals (foreign) making vast profits tax evade, through the City of London.
Having reminded myself of a hoo-ha over an effigy of Obama being burned , I though to remind you all.
From the DM 2011,
“The Tories have been forced to apologise after students at St Andrews University burnt an effigy of Barack Obama at a Conservative Association Party.
Students from the U.S. – who account for almost a third of the undergraduate population in the Fife town – claimed the incident was anti-American and, at worst, racist.”
The BBBC,
“A former chairman of the university’s Labour society described the burning as “disgraceful”.
James Mills said: “I can’t imagine any other student activists of a major political party would behave in this manner.
“It’s disgusting and I hope the Conservative Party and the prime minister completely come out and condemn this obscene act.”
He added: “The last thing a truly modern party should be doing is burning an effigy of anyone let alone the first black president of the USA, one of our closest allies.”
The DT,
”
Authorities at St Andrews University – where the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge studied and first met – said they were looking into reports of the incident on Friday evening on the town’s East Sands beach.
Matthew Marshall, president of the St Andrews Conservative Association, told the BBC: “President Obama is an important ally to the British Government. It was a stupid thing to do and we apologise for any offence caused.”
John Park, Labour MSP for Mid Scotland and Fife, whose constituency includes the university said: “This is gravely offensive and way beyond a student prank.”
Och Jings! I am looking forward to those outlets showing their outrage agin’ the Lewes stupid ,offensive racists.
There again….
Whatever your opinion of the effigy (and my English mates who voted Yes aint too chuffed with it) what’s annoying me is another fib – seems like they didn’t burn it but blew it up just like normal. However to report that “they didn’t burn it” casts a different slant on it – Why don’t they just admit what they did? This is symptomatic of all the other lies and manipulation that we’ve had to put up with. link to scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk
I picked up a couple of papers to buy the other day, but changed my mind and returned them. Unfortunately, I put them back on the wrong shelf by mistake, covering the DR.
Oops!
Got a “duplicate” comment message but no printed comment so here I go again -I suspect that happened to the triple poster!
DT 2011,
Authorities at St Andrews University – where the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge studied and first met – said they were looking into reports of the incident on Friday evening on the town’s East Sands beach.
Matthew Marshall, president of the St Andrews Conservative Association, told the BBC: “President Obama is an important ally to the British Government. It was a stupid thing to do and we apologise for any offence caused.”
John Park, Labour MSP for Mid Scotland and Fife, whose constituency includes the university said: “This is gravely offensive and way beyond a student prank.”
DM,
“The Tories have been forced to apologise after students at St Andrews University burnt an effigy of Barack Obama at a Conservative Association Party.
Students from the U.S. – who account for almost a third of the undergraduate population in the Fife town – claimed the incident was anti-American and, at worst, racist.”
The BBBC,
“A former chairman of the university’s Labour society described the burning as “disgraceful”.
James Mills said: “I can’t imagine any other student activists of a major political party would behave in this manner.
“It’s disgusting and I hope the Conservative Party and the prime minister completely come out and condemn this obscene act.”
He added: “The last thing a truly modern party should be doing is burning an effigy of anyone let alone the first black president of the USA, one of our closest allies.”
The Referendum rules were Scotland had to stick to purdah and Westminster did not. How perverse is that. That is not equal and fair. The usual unfair rules that favour Westminster and The Union. It was supposed to be Scotland Referendum for the people of Scotland to decide in peace, not colossal interference. The Unionists politicians will pay at the Ballot box.
OOOPS!
Stoker @6.47
go take a look at the Lewes bonfire society facebook page stoker,
some rotten sods put your quip up on their page . 🙂
Lewes Borough Bonfire Society est 1853
Hayley Millar on GMS describes the Alex Salmond effigy as “amusing, with him sitting on a barrel of North Sea oil, with Nessie over his shoulder” I’m sure she and her friends at BBC North Labour would love to see the real AS burned.
Alex Salmond can burn Cameron, Clegg, Milliband, by holding their feet to the fire. The most popular politician in Britain. Create the fireworks when Scotland is Independence. Imagine the Party and the fireworks. Like Hogmanay a million times. A new beginning. Spectacular.
Rev Stu is certainly not letting the Daily Record off the hook. A daily complaint.
Cuilean says
“I have noticed in newsagents recently that the Daily Record stock always seems to have its front page turned over so that the sports page is on view & not the front headlines. It seems that the Scottish public cannot even bear to look at the rag’s front page anymore!”
Funny you should say that, I noticed that very same thing in Tesco’s last night but it didn’t twig until I read your post, however I do believe it might have been another disgruntled yesser who did it rather than the shop staff.
Marcia @9.16
Go Alex go
doesn’t that man fill you with pride?
If we live in a liberal democracy with freedom of speech, expression & assembly, then we have every right to say whatever the hell we like about it, even if it is considered “ridiculous ultra-politically correct hyperbole.”
I suspect the effigies of Cameron, Clegg or Thatcher would not have caricatured their Englishness. When they did an effigy of Cameron & Clegg, it was simply Cameron dangling a marionette Clegg from his strings. No cups of tea, no St George’s cross, no bowler hats, none of the traditional English paraphernalia. This depicts Alex Salmond AND Nessie, and a Tam O’Shanter, and tartan trousers. The other effigy has him re-enacting a scene from Braveheart in a KILT, for Christ’s sake.
The effigies of Cameron, Clegg and Thatcher were all satirical based on their politics – things those three have DONE. The effigy of Salmond is based on who he IS – a Scotsman. This is something which has been a constant for years – Alex Salmond’s Scottishness is always played up, and used as part of the tools of ridicule. Pick a cartoonist from any of the major newspapers throughout the campaign, and I practically guarantee they’ve drawn a picture of Eck in a kilt, or with bagpipes, or some other traditional Scottish icon.
Alone, such a cartoon might not be that much of a problem. But when every single cartoon does it, the drip drip drip starts to get a bit beyond a joke.
(Plus there’s also the fact that the effigies of Cameron & Clegg were only of Cameron and Clegg – no throwing of their voters under the same bus, no marginalisation of a signficiant proportion of a nation, no equation of a heartfelt cause to Humpty Dumpty.)
From engaging in our right to criticize something we find offensive, to “banning books, newspapers or magazines” in “the slippery slope to censorship & dictatorshop” – and you’re telling us to “get a grip? I don’t know how on earth you can compare perfectly legitimate complaints about something you yourself call “distasteful” and “at worst (to some) offensive” to the intimidation and violence suffered by the Danes, either.
You might be onto something with the Slippery Slope – but not in the way you think. Consider: if a town in Wales decided to spontaneously start a festival where they celebrate the state-mandated execution of a Jew, carried banners with “No Yids”, and for the hell of it carried around flaming crosses and got blackfaced, well, you wouldn’t expect it to carry on, would you? But if a town’s been doing this for centuries, to the point where it’s “traditional,” that somehow mitigates the appalling anti-semitic sentiments.
Because that’s what Lewes does every year: effigies of the Pope, signs with “No Popery,” blackface, burning crosses, the works. All anti-Catholic. But because it’s traditional, it still goes on. Much like how anti-Scottish sentiment still goes on.
Of course the red,blue and yellow Tories of Lewes like Iron Age primitives are reacting to someone who threatened their very comfortable way of life. They are responding to a brilliant man who almost succeeded in leading Scotland to a fair and just society and ending THEIR country bleeding Scotland dry. Scotland almost succeeded under his leadership and Lewes et al were terrified .
Dancing to the moon to expiate the evil they chanted their way to burning him in effigy .
They were right to be terrified. Scotland almost won. Perhaps they will soon!
O/T Lord Smith getting his excuses in early based on only 380 submissions he says Scotland is split on more powers.
link to archive.today
Liked this tweet
A pithy tweet was posted yesterday by the Stirling University Scottish Socialist Party. “Scottish Labour is still the party of the left,” it said. “Lamont left, Sarwar left, Darling left. Nothing left.”
There never was any left in the Labour Party, even when the SSP Millies were part of it.
The SSP voted every year against entrenching its own clause V for an independent Socialist Scotland, calling the motion. “Fascist, Racist and Stalinist”. The reason why most of the Scottish Republican Socialists left had nothing to do with their obsession with Tommy Sheridan’s alleged sex life.
Who’s left in Scotland noo?
Relax, people, Hayley Millar has given us the official take on the Lewes pitchfork gathering. It was ‘quite funny’ and ‘amusing’. To boot, a councillor from East Sussex told us he was ‘disappointed that the Scottish people didn’t understand this was a celebration’.
So it’s only our sense of humour bypass and stupidity that prevented us enjoying this wholesome display of Englishness. Phew!
That article in the Scotsman that Sinky linked to is an absolute joke. Tom Peterkin says businesses are against more powers, he only quotes the Weir Group and the CBI!! 😀 :D. Utter horseshit from the Scotsman once again.
Anyone interested….
Consequences of the referendum on Scottish independence
Committee hear from Electoral Reform Society, Unlock Democracy and representatives from local government in England, including the Chair of the Local Government Association, on Thursday 6 November at 10.00am
link to parliament.uk
@Sinky,
Dejavu 🙁
link to holyrood.com
24 November 2014
Quincentenary Hall, Royal College of Surgeons, Edinburgh
I love it when the media bleat about ” the freedom of the press” being challenged as by the Leveson enquiry.
However , I have noted they bleat even louder when someone has the temerity to challenge their view /output/lies.
If as a nation we believe in freedom of speech ,then it is for all and not just the media manipulators.
I am looking forward to the ex First Minister taking EVERY opportunity to challenge the MSM and any other bugger he fancies.
He may even become like the Rev Stu – and let them away with absolutely NOTHING and be rude to boot
Can’t wait!
Ken500,
The Edinburgh AGREEMENT, signed by David Cameron, committed the UK Government to adhere to EXACTLY the same purdah rules as the Scottish Government. I posted the details here a few days ago. Section 29 of the Edinburgh agreement.
Of course they chose to ignore them, but they did agree to honour them, in writing.
Not sure why people keep posting that the rules did not apply.
And the Press Release that the SC actually released (at link to smith-commission.scot
“The Smith Commission has today published more than 380 submissions it has received from civic groups – including the views of businesses, charities and other representative organisations.
A link to the documents can be found in the ‘resources’ section of our website – http://www.smith.commission.scot. Further contributions received by the 31 October deadline are expected to be published in due course.
In addition, more than 14,000* emails and letters have been received from the public. The Secretariat will publish a breakdown of the key themes emerging from these submissions.
A dedicated session of cross-party talks will be held to consider and discuss the views submitted by the public and institutions.
Since his appointment, Lord Smith has undertaken visits across Scotland to listen to the views of a broad range of groups. Meetings were held in and around Inverness, the Borders, Aberdeen, Dundee, Stirling, Edinburgh and Glasgow.
He said: “We have received a broad range of views and I have been delighted by the response from both civic groups and wider society. The nominees from the five political parties will now reflect on these submissions and the public too will now be able to see them on our website as the conversation about how the Scottish Parliament can be strengthened continues.”
I see that it was the CBI that was kicking against Home Rule in the Smith Commission. I’m willing to bet that the majority of submissions are for Home Rule.
Understand this: What happened with Indy has been and is being repeated over and over across the globe in one form or another. We are not alone.
Billions of ‘ordinary’ people are being screwed by Governments which are being run by the big banks – just like in the UK.
They are getting away with it because the Gov. controlled media is so good at influencing entire populations.
Most people, apparently, are like sheep – ‘don’t think, won’t think, just do whatever you are told and don’t cause any trouble’ kind of people.
The antidote for this is anger – even sheep get angry but only as a last resort. So till the sheep get angry enough, we’ll just have to be patient. Here in Scotland, we’re waiting for a million pensioners to get angry enough about the VOW to vote Yes to independence.
A halfwit can see the Lewes effigy with its wood spikes and barrels is a celebration of England’s victory over Scottish oil, its history and culture, and the defeat of a modern-day champion of Scots’ democratic rights.
This, from the same nation that yelled, “Stay with us, Scotland, we love you!”
Why don’t they go all the way, hang, draw and quarter it?
“I have no objection to the Salmond effigy.” Sheesh!
Get a bloody backbone, for Christ sake!
A halfwit can see the Lewes effigy with its wood spikes and barrels is a celebration of England’s victory over Scottish oil, its history and culture, and the defeat of a modern-day champion of Scots’ democratic rights.
This, from the same nation that yelled, “Stay with us, Scotland, we love you!”
Why don’t they go all the way, hang, draw and quarter it?
“I have no objection to the Salmond effigy.” Sheesh!
Get a bloody backbone, for Christ sake!
Is it just me or… if I was looking to champion a cause as Labour Leader elect (once a had woken up from full frontal lobotomy surgery of course) to take Scotland forward, would I a) propose ways of promoting equality, fairness and eradication of poverty or b) rally for the right to sing bigoted songs about 17th century Irish battles, 19th century Irish famines, early 20th century Irish freedom fighters and 1980s Irish hunger strikers. Just saying like
Labour/Unionists council want spending devolved to the Councils. It is Councils (pro rata) that
overspend public money. They can’t even count or read a balance sheet. They have wasted £Millions of public money on projects against the public interest or wishes. They waste £Millions of public money on wasteful scheme, against the public wishes, and get into corporate debt. It is not spend on the vulnerable or needy, but on colossal projects which are over priced.
Despite have the best advice , for whch the the public pay, the Labour/Unionist controlled
Councils ignore the advice and waste £Millions, against the public interest getting councils into debt. Just like Westminster. The Unionists Councils are corrupt an should be kept on a tight rein to avoid further debt. GCC, Edinburgh, Aberdeen/shire, Stirling etc are corrupt. They want even more public money devolved so they can waste more, totally against the Publuc interest or wishes. Unionists politicians are liars.
Aberdeen/shire underfunded by Labour/Unionist Cosla for years. Blames the Scottish Gov. The City councilb wastes £33Million vandalising the Art Gallery. Gives Muse a contract that that Council leases back for thirty years, wasting £Million on an unnecessary project. Refuses a£80Million Gift for a UTG project which would have pedestrianised the City centre and was supported by the majority. ACC Unionists voted against a By Pass road for thirty years. Aberdeenshire/Unionists blocked the By Pass road for ten years. There is major traffic chaos throughout the City/shire. A colossal waste of public money, time and resources. Aberdeen is the only City in Europe without a predestrianise City Centre and a By Pass.
The Tram Project in Edinburgh was so badly run by Edinburgh Council that £Million of public money was wasted and the original Project was only half finished. Unionists were incapable of
running the Project successfully. The fare to the Airport £8 return is cheaper than the former Airport bus fare – £12 return, wasting £Million which has to be subsidised by other taxpayers in Scotland. Edinburgh City Council subsides the fare structure.
Unionists Councils should get no more public money to squander. It is certainly not spent on the vulnerable or essential services. They should be kept on a tight rein.
link to scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk
The people of East Sussex use fireworks to blow effigy of Alex Salmond “to smithereens” – while the media are busy telling everyone it wasn’t being burnt after all
B Neil – of course it is B!
I have just bought the Herald for my husband and because of its front page splash I very nearly didn’t .
I am kind of hoping it causes him enough apoplexy to stop his dependence on it!
For Lord Smith, just insert ‘The Ruling Classes’.
There are suggestions that the Scottish Gov was tied into purdah but the Westminster Gov made a non binding (VOW?) gentleman’s agreement. The Referendum was supposed to be conducted as per a General Election which adheres to a strict purdah period. A total period of non reporting by MSM a month before the election date. What happened, makes people even more angry. Re the Daily Record Con, engineered by unelected Nicks Sutton.
SNP politicians have said, ‘it was a gentlemen’s agreement’. Alex Salmond has said it, but intends to hold the feet to the fire.
The text of the Edinburgh Agreement stated that the UK Govt would abide by the rules in the same way as the Scottish Govt. So it is written into the doc which Stu did publish in an earlier blog post.
MURRAY FOOTE IS AN IDIOT
I have just tortured myself again by reading Murray Foote’s e-mail, and, frankly, how someone with such a shabby command of English can be the editor of a newspaper is beyond me. Consider the following:
“The original intention was to publish the day before but the dreadful news over that weekend of the horrific murder of David Haines took precedent.”
The phrase “the day before” should be followed by a comma, and the word “precedent” should be “precedence.”
Further muddle-headedness regarding the use of commas is shown here:
“I will not be releasing email correspondence as, to do so, would breach confidence.”
Correct version: “I will not be releasing email correspondence, as to do so would breach confidence.”
We can turn a blind eye to the efforts of some of the hacks, but the editor ought to have higher standards. Then again, it is the Daily Record we’re talking about, a so-called newspaper which looks likely to be survived by its more vibrant and informative rivals, the Dandy and the Beano.
Gosh imagine if we made an effigy of Murphy (granted it would resemble something out of pink floyd the wall) we would be labelled nazis, terrorists with calls for our eradication.
Ahhhh democracy.
Here is the paragraph from the Edinburgh Agreement:
Government activity during the 28 days before the referendum
29. It is customary for there to be a period before elections in the UK, during which Ministers and other public bodies refrain from publishing material that would have a bearing on the election. Section 125 of PPERA sets out the restrictions that apply to Ministers and public bodies in the 28 days preceding referendums held under that Act. Both governments recognise the importance of respecting the 28-day period prior to a referendum, in the same way that both governments already respect each other’s pre-election period for Parliamentary elections. The Scottish Government will set out details of restricted behaviour for Scottish Ministers and devolved public bodies in the Referendum Bill to be introduced into the Scottish Parliament. These details will be based on the restrictions set out in PPERA. The UK Government has committed to act according to the same PPERA-based rules during the 28 day period.
See full text here
link to scotland.gov.uk
@ Neil. Agree 100% regarding Jim Murphy and the sectarian laws. It is indeed a strange uttering from the new new labour leader,to allow free reign to the bigots. Still Murphy is a long time supporter of Isreali state oppression. Perhaps he wants to utilise these thugs as a State Militia as they do in Iran. 🙂
Capella says:
We can turn a blind eye to the efforts of some of the hacks, but the editor ought to have higher standards.
Standards are often the first to go in moments of panic.
He is nailed and he knows it.
Does anybody believe “the Vow” made a blind bit of difference? Not that it isn’t worth asking these questions but in the grand scheme of things the more important thing is to persuade a good portion of the 55% that the 45% are sensible people with a decent grip on reality, and that Scotland can prosper when run by Scots.
I think we need to focus on the Smith Commission and 2015 GE. The Smith Commission may ultimately be no more meaningful than “The Vow”, but whatever it produces will set the stage for 2015/16
It looks like the Labour backbench MPs at Westminster have had enough of Ed too! Rumours of a plot to get rid off him on Facebook!
I wasn’t aware that businesses and organisations voted in elections.
I’ve never met a met a business at any location I ever voted at.
I find it odd that Scotland appears (to the establishment), to be divided on more powers.
55% per cent voted for the guys offering more powers. 45% voted for all powers. Everyone wants more powers.
What everyone will get of course, regardless of which side of the “divide” they are on, is nothing.
Sharp eyed readers will spot that the word nothing contains the word NO within. Spooky eh?
Smith is indeed, as Sinky points out, getting the non offer out there early.
Interesting to see that the Weir (safe in the UK BetterTogether) Group are shedding jobs. There is a referendum coming up as to whether we leave a Union or not. Perhaps it’s uncertainty.
@Ali
Yes of course it did, but all the more so in conjunction with the last minute ‘Big Lie’ approach which made ridiculous claims regarding increase in income tax and mortgage payments, far higher than previous scaremongering attempts.
The lies were designed to scare people, the Vow was simply to give them permission to change their minds.
Both imminently see-throughable in time, but for enough people, not within the deliberately short time scale they were accorded.
The Fitba Act is flawed.
Jim Murphy opposing it for self serving reasons does not make it any the less flawed.
‘Flawed’ is a Scots Law euphemism 🙂
@Capella
The electoral commission ha already ruled on the matter. Apparently the Vox was signed by the leaders of the three unionist parties, not the government. That is was not government policy was confirmed in the house by Wee Willy Hague.
The Edinburgh Agreement only binds the two governments during the purdah period. So by arbitrarily deciding neither Cameron nor Clegg were wearing their heads of government hats they get off free.
Whoops! by Vox I obviously meant Vow.
Slighty OT, but i thought I’d share the views of a Tory MP who thinks that Westminster should indeed stop Scottish ministers from making decisions about his English constituents.
In particular English matters such as the Budget and the Queens Speech.
I shit you not folks.
MP for North Wilts. James Gray. From Perthshire.
As told to the Gazette and Herald of Wiltshire on 2.10.14.
He only lives one junction along the motorway from Stu. Perhaps Stu could pop round for a chat with him
Slighty OT, but i thought I’d share the views of a Tory MP who thinks that Westminster should indeed stop Scottish ministers from making decisions about his English constituents.
In particular English matters such as the Budget and the Queens Speech.
I shit you not folks.
MP for North Wilts. James Gray. From Perthshire.
As told to the Gazette and Herald of Wiltshire on 2.10.14.
He only lives one junction along the motorway from Stu. Perhaps Stu could pop round for a chat with him
Maybe those company director would have a mini referendem within they’re workforce. The deck of cards is still stacked against US.Smith Commission is only aside show to allow Westminster to ROB more from Scotland to get they’re projects finnished in London & HS 1 2 3, oh nearly forgot the £ 1.6 bl & rising,no doupt when Scotland is Independant, the national Dept will start getting payed off with the hidden revenue from Scotland.
@Luigi at 10:25 am
Did you mean “Free Scotland says:”? (From post at 10:05)
@ Luigi
“blind eye to the efforts of some of the hacks”
That was Free Scotland.
Somebody needs to have a wee word with that Lordy Smith. He seems to think that the constitutional future of Scotland is something which businesses have a say in, yet I didn’t realise that in a democracy corporate organisations had a vote.
The ONLY point of view Smith should be listening to, is that of the legitimate, democratically elected Scottish Government. He should certainly NOT be letting privately run profit making businesses owned overseas decide Scotland’s future.
Perhaps Smith doesn’t quite understand democracy, given he is unelected himself.
It is however, becoming clear, with Smith already making excuses, that promises made prior to the vote of devo max and full home rule will be broken, and that Scotland will get devo Nano, if anything. Time for another referendum in that case.
Liars, damned liars and unionists.
@ Muscleguy
“The electoral commission ha already ruled on the matter. Apparently the Vox was signed by the leaders of the three unionist parties, not the government. “
That tortuous logic is Jesuitical. Where does the statement come from?
OT Is Lord Smith related to Walter? There is a strong facial resemblance.
@Capella
What Muscleguy is trying to say I think is that the UK government did not make an official offer of more powers. They got around it by having the three party leaders in England make the ‘vow.’
“I for one will not support any further devolution to Scotland unless and until the rights and interests of my English constituents are safeguarded.
That can only be done by removing the ability of Scottish MPs to vote on English matters, including the Budget and the Queen’s Speech. Labour of course will never agree to that. This one will run and run.”
From the man himself. James Gray MP for North Wilts.
From Perthshire.
Flower of Scotland @10:37 am
It looks like the Labour backbench MPs at Westminster have had enough of Ed too! Rumours of a plot to get rid off him on Facebook!
They just have to ‘unfriend’ him 🙂
@Chic:
One’s been on Rangers’ board, the other’s been on Weir’s board. So they are definitely brothers of a sort.
Capella, Free Scotland,
Yep – apologies for the mix up – I must have been in a panic!
@ DMW 42 9.31, are those links to the Smith Commission correct, Virgin Media are my service provider, I,ve kliked on those links twice, smith commision does,ent excist,or do I smell shite again. Anyone with Virgin media please try those links & post up the results.
@ muttley
What Muscleguy is trying to say I think is that the UK government did not make an official offer of more powers. They got around it by having the three party leaders in England make the ‘vow.’
Well in that case, in view of the fact it is recorded in the House of Commons Standard Note sn06987 para 2.3, did he make it during his work time or in his free time? ditto Clegg and Miliband?
Totally O/T, BUT VERY relevant … should bring a smile to all your faces…
Saw this on the BBC Live feed on-line this morning:
09:57: Endangered species Ken Macintosh has become the latest MSP to adopt an animal or flower and champion its cause at the Scottish Parliament…
Since I am from CYMRU/Wales, I had to just check on Google to which party he belongs, and yes, you’re all correct, he’s the member for Eastwood, for that endangered species, the Slumber Party in Scotland… soon to become extinct, hopefully!
@Capella
William Hague said there was no official UK government offer. They got around it by using the Daily Record to make a vague, ambiguous offer. We can go on and on about the purdah issue. It is not going to change anything.
Ali,
I think the vow did make a lot of difference in as much as it was the carrot which made the stick of Asda,RBS etc all the more effective.It allowed people who had been persuaded by the case for independence to opt,out of fear, for a “middle road” instead,even though they probably knew that road was imaginary.The vow eased their conscience a bit when they voted against Scotland.
Hollyrood Parliament now started
Lord Smith of Kelvin was Chairman of The Weir Group , he was employed by Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS)he was also Governor of the BBC.
Three of the most anti Scottish Independence businesses in the UK.
It is like putting the fox in charge of the hen house.
Fiona Woolf had to step down from the Westminster abuse inquiry because of past links to the political Establishment.
We had better get `extensive new powers` .
Extensive : large-scale, sizeable, substantial, considerable, great, huge, vast, immense, boundless, immeasurable;
[…] Earlier today we published an email from Daily Record editor Murray Foote about “The Vow”. In it he referred to an editorial published in the paper on 8 September, attacking the “confused and shambolic” position of the three Unionist parties on further devolution to Scotland in the event of a No vote. […]
The message from the Lewes Bonfire is “Get it right up you, Scotland.”
Apparently some Scottish people are cool about this.
Last nights Million Mask march was well attended in Edinburgh. Plenty of YES flags. Great atmosphere with many families in attendance.
‘Red Tories Out’ was a consistent theme in the chanting, and Murphy’s demise was another.
Altogether heartening.
john king says:
6 November, 2014 at 8:22 am
Stoker @6.47
go take a look at the Lewes bonfire society facebook page stoker,
some rotten sods put your quip up on their page . 🙂
Lewes Borough Bonfire Society est 1853
_____________
DAMN IT!
Ah don’t do facebook, John.
((( INFAMY…INFAMY…INFAMY…THEY’VE ALL GOT IT INFAMY )))
🙂
Cheers
😉
Tamson
“One’s been on Rangers’ board, the other’s been on Weir’s board. So they are definitely brothers of a sort.”
Is than as in “Weir the People”? 🙂
The resemblance is at times uncanny
link to encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
link to encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com
The UK government could not make any offer on “more powers”,
there is no guarantee the next UK gov is going to be the same
LibCon Alliance we currently have.
That is another reason why it was the 3 London parties behind it, they knew that was the first thing we would say so to help give their deception the appearance of greater legitimacy all three London parties had to be seen as singing from the same hymn sheet.
Marcia
Thanks for the link to the Facebook page with Alex telling them off for burning Nessie’s image. He is one of Scotlands greatest heroes. I felt really down when he said he would step down but without the “strictures” of Office , he can be even more a threat to WM.
Really got a lift watching him . Big thanks 🙂
MAD LONDON PAPERS CONTROLLED BY LUNATICS AND FEEDING WRONG INFORMATION TO NUTTERS IN GOVERNMENT
After United Nations Chief Ban Ki-moon gave a shocking warning on the likely results if we did not switch to renewable energy and eliminate emissions into the atmosphere, This is what the Telegraph said, reflecting the opinion of Tory press in London.
The nutters who run the UK actually believe this rubbish and have been cutting back renewable incentives.
For the love of all that’s holy get Scotland independent quick
.
link to telegraph.co.uk
muttley79 says:
6 November, 2014 at 9:14 am
“That article in the Scotsman that Sinky linked to is an absolute joke. Tom Peterkin says businesses are against more powers, he only quotes the Weir Group and the CBI!! 😀 :D. Utter horseshit from the Scotsman once again.”
Och wheesht, the man has a mortgage to pay and he has to write
what his boss tells him to write, its no his fault, eh.
😉
Filthy scum springs to mind.
O/T
AS has just torn James Kelly a new one in FMQ then went on to do the same for the Tory asking the next question. Lovely jubbly 🙂
@ tartanarse re EVEL
Sligthtly different view but this: HeraldScotsman Monday 3 November 2014
“Mr Darling, who will not contest his Edinburgh South West seat at the General Election in May, also warned David Cameron his push to restrict the voting rights of Scottish MPs could create a financial crisis.
He attacked the SNP, accusing the party of creating a state of “neverendum”.
He advised the Prime Minister to “think long and hard” about the repercussions of his proposals for “English votes for English laws”.
He said that, if an opposition party had a majority among English MPs, it could vote down the Westminster Government’s Budget. Even the threat of such an outcome could lead to market uncertainty about the state of the economy, potentially pushing up borrowing rates, he warned.”
is interesting.
I read it as a warning to Cameron re EVEL insofar as his proposal to prevent Scottish Labour MP’s (when he says ‘an opposition party’) from voting on WM Gov Budget.
But would that ever be the case?
Is WM Budget ever considered to be an English only matter?
Is Darling right, or scaremongering?
@ Ronnie 11.26am
Is this the link?
link to smith-commission.scot
OT & apologies if already mentioned. Labour have had a mini shadow cabinet reshuffle. If you look at their cabinet you will notice there is a Scottish secretary, Curran. Apart from that the only Scottish MP is Doug Alexander. My conclusion is that the other Scottish MPs are cannon fodder. I can’t believe that of Willie Bain, Lindsay Roy etc.
The best that can be said of this burning-issue in Lewes business is that with the red-necks exercising their undoubted sculptural talents hammering away in their garden sheds for weeks, it’s keeping them off their sisters! arhhhhh. 🙂
hadrianswall says: I rather imagine that Dougie will be toast after 2015 as will as the other’s bar Curran, have to keep a Scot as the Scottish Secretary I assume.
I have added more information to the blog. Well worth a read if you are interested in Scottish politics and the adverse influence of the BBC:
An extract: Sarah Smith remembers!!!
As the BBC launch an inquiry into their cultural practices in previous decades Business Correspondent Sarah Smith has been looking at her own experience there in the 1990s in a new light. I joined the BBC in Glasgow as a 20 year old trainee in 1989. I never saw any underage sex or rapes. But in those days sexist jokes and inappropriate touching were considered normal. That year the BBC Scotland TV newsroom Christmas party had the theme of “Grape and Vine”. Someone who thought it was funny went around Broadcasting House and tippexed out the G on every poster, changing the theme to “Rape and Vine”. One of my fellow, female, trainees made a serious complaint, saying she didn’t want to work in a newsroom displaying these posters and she asked for them to be removed. She was immediately shunned by most of the male journalists in the place. Ridiculed for being unable to take a joke and then apparently treated unfairly when assignments were being handed out. The posters stayed in place and our only avenue of protest was to boycott the party
link to caltonjock.com
@ commenters discussing purdah
I’ve been interested to follow the discussion between commenters here.
The points could be argued back and forth with the EC, but the principle reason must be to demonstrate HOW purdah was broken.
For example:
if EC maintains leaders weren’t wearing Gov hats, how could it be demonstrated they were?
I commented on this on another thread briefly from the point of view that the public are entitled to expect that in an election, campaign statements demonstrate the intention of the then, and future, elected members. However a case would need to be made for this.
Re: whether the ministers published anything during the 28day period, they can argue that the DR published, not them. However we do have Foote, (and somewhat supported by Cambell’s response) saying that he regards the Front Page as the official document.
Re: whether purdah was breached by the issue of new promises or statements, clearly the WMGOV can claim that they didn’t mention anything new, vow points were a rehash – and this could be argued – however it leads to a far stronger point, that of the Timetable.
A close look need to be given to that wording, for although the WMGOV may claim that it wasn’t new promises, just a timetable for delivery, in fact it was not just a timetable for delivery, but it also mention mechanisms which would enact the promises, and which were mentioned for the first time during the purdah period alongside the “Vow”.
The EC may argue again that these mechanisms were offered to voters by party leaders, not WMGOV, but the fact remains that they were delivered in the Timetable as a Government undertaking.
This in my view is worth further scrutiny.
BREAKING: Labour MPs call for Ed Miliband to step down.
O/T – If you go to 17:00 you can see an example of how even the primary-school children of Glasgow can see through the Red Tory Party and despise Milliband et al. It is just a shame tiny children are more clued-up than the 25% of numpties in our country who STILL (bizarrely) plan to vote Labour:
link to new.livestream.com
I do not know when independence will come, but the subject will NEVER go away, certainly not in this or the next or the next generation.
If Milliband has been asked to step down that means the ‘Vow’ is even more a meaningless load of bollocks than we thought.
@Gillie
Yeah, Mail and Express trying to make headway on that. Guardian blog has Balls saying its only a couple of MPs. Still no smoke without fire and the discontent may be more widespread than Balls is making out.
Either way it makes a complete nonsense of the vow. If Miliband survives beyond the GE I’b surprised. His signature meant nothing in the first place for obvious reason now, if its possible, even less than nothing.
gillie says:
6 November, 2014 at 1:14 pm
BREAKING: Labour MPs call for Ed Miliband to step down.
________
Thanks for that, Gillie.
You can bet anything you like, Milipede will go.
Its all part of the greater deception – “look, we’ve changed.”
What we see happening before our very eyes is the Labour parties
political equivalent of those famous last words of the domestic abuser – “I’m sorry, look, I’ll change, give me another chance” – they never do.
Nobody in Scotland should be fooled by these filthy red tory ("Tractor" - Ed)s. A leopard never changes its spots. These filthy scum ("Tractor" - Ed)s destroyed Scotland’s future and they continue to try and destroy it further with their various representations to and on the Smith Commission.
And don’t forget, whoever takes Milipedes place will be one of those very same Labour party members who agreed with their party taking the approach they did with Scotland’s future.
They are trying the deception in Scotland with all this Skeletor and Fifi La Dug crap, now they’re attempting it with England’s people. Somehow i don’t think they’ll get away with it down there either.
AYE, the more things change the more they remain the same.
Swami at 12.41
“Is WM Budget ever considered to be an English only matter?”
Much as I hate the media, I dare say that given that Scotland wouldn’t be the subject of any budget then we could see headlines such as:
“Beer and fags to remain the same price forever in Union”
Could indy top this? I’m not sure.
I wan’t Ed to stay for the same reason that I was sad to see Jlo go.
Having said that, replacements?
Chief turkey at Christmas.
I wish we could edit so that I could remove needless apostrophes.
Behind the scenes,this is what the people of Lewes and East Sussex did with the FM effigy:–
link to scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk
The second Alex Salmond effigy had him exposing himself with a mini kilt. No very decent chaps and chapesses down in the deep South.
Hmmm… The Guardian (horrosco referens) says this on its “political blog”: “Labour sources dispute the BBC claim that Ed Miliband will be making a statement about his leadership this afternoon.”
Also, there was this on the same Guardian website:
‘Nicola Sturgeon, who is going to take over as Scotland’s first minister shortly, has said she does not fear Murphy as an opponent. When asked by the New Statesman if she was frightened of Murphy, she laughed and replied: “Not in the slightest. Not at all, actually. On the contrary.”’
And they try and tell us Murphy is not going for a self serving demotion? Even if Miliband demoted him, there are no doubt others in WM positioning themselves who despise him even more, and he knew this was coming.
Last chance saloon
If Miliband goes, Murphy is more likely to be offered a place in the potential Labour cabinet by the new leader. Might we see a situation in December where Murphy is voted into the role as Scottish Labour leader, only to either: a) turn it down; or b) abandon the role after a couple of months?
Also, is there any potential Labour leader who would be more effective than Miliband in Scotland?
The bookies have (in order) Cooper, Burnham, Umunna, Johnson, Balls, Reeves, Hunt, Jarvis, Miliband D… An utter dearth of talent.
Aww, poor old Jim Murphy must be kicking himself, now he cannae run for HQ leader now as he’s already been appointed by the media as Scottish Branch Leader.
On another note, anyone else dying of suspense waiting for the Rev’s poll results to appear? I cannae contain myself!
If they make Jim their Supreme Oberguppenfuhrer I will move to East Ren and vote Tory 😀
Ed Milliband. Let’s face it – he has neither the head nor the personality for the job as Prime minister.
He doesn’t have a voice, just a tape recording.
His performance recently in which, mindful of the press cameramen following him, he turned to give a street beggar 2P without even looking at her.
During Indy, in Buchanan St Precinct, with Alexander on his right and Lamont on his left, he had not a word to say to a young woman who asked him a question and eventually, after a tortuous two minutes, he just turned and walked away.
The Unions who secured his election as Labour leader backed a loser. They should both be given the heave.
@Piemonties
at 2:48pm.
They could get Foulkes to nominate some candidates for Labour leader. After all he said that Labours biggest problem in selecting a leader for the Scotland branch was selecting one from the plethora of talent available.(Or words to that effect) 🙂
apparently they want rid of Milliband as:
he “doesn’t really understand the lower-middle class or material aspiration”.
is that no a line from the tory party?
@ Man in the Jar
If Murphy was to refuse the role of branch leader, surely it should go to whichever parliamentarian is leading his campaign team… 😉
Regardless of what happens to Miliband and or Murphy, or whoever wins in Scotland, one thing is certain. There will be no trainload of MPs heading to Scotland to show support, it will be every man and woman for themselves now.
But what a thought, Lamont, Miliband, Darling and please, please Foote all gone. An early Christmas present.
interesting article in the Scottish Statesman, if you have not seen it.
link to scottishstatesman.com
Don’t you just love these prima donnas? 3 hours is a “Slight hold-up”!
Still, holding my breath has cured my hiccups 😉
Never mind everybody, the saviour of Scotland is coming and promising allsorts….maybe even the liquorice sort.
Jim Murphy’s pay rise vow for half a million Scots
link to archive.today
Labour honchos have looked at Ed Miliband, looked at Alex Salmond, and realised just how far from a true leader he is.
There is no point in sacking Miliband, the lot of them are rotten and all are unelectable as leader of the country. Anyone who thinks Jim Murphy had any chance is wrong. Its bad enough we think hes a loser, imagine how bad he must be if his own losers think he is worse than them!
If Miliband is to go, it will be over the Christmas break. I do not however believe that Labour are so foolish as to get rid of him, as the UKGE is too close.
They really must try to get a strategy in place with Miliband, rather than removing him, as a change now will make matters worse.
The real danger now for them, is that as some MP’s are feart for their seats, they will behave like rats from a sinking ship. Labour’s front benches are chock full of greasy pole climbing careerist individuals, whose main priority is their own future. This will lead to further in fighting between those who want him to go, and those who know it is too close to the election to change him now.
They should understand the meltdown in Scotland has little to do with miliband, but more to do with their right wing policies and faustian pact with the Tories during the referendum – something for which I think they will never be forgiven.
Labour really are between a rock and a hard place.
If Miliband goes he will be the first one. Labour have had some stupendously bad leaders but they have always kept them till they lost.
@muscleguy,
Maybe the “Vow” was just a distraction away from the earlier “Pledge”.
It’s signed by the leaders of the Scottish parties AND the English ones.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Fed says
“it’s keeping them off their sisters! arhhhhh. :)”
Snort, bwahahahahaha
I didn’t think it was possible for your tea to come out your ears. 🙂
Stoker says
Infamy infamy
What?
like this you mean?
link to youtube.com
In a preamble to the link to the rednex song I warned them about trading insults with a country that’s had two years of learning to trade insults with the best of them.
Not productive!
[…] The Vow is coming under scrutiny, with the Daily Record on the defensive, (you could read the previous posts on Wings on the same subject too), and watching sales […]
Murphy was only ever likely to take up the Branch Manager post on a temporary/caretaker basis – no doubt obtaining assurances from Moribund that he’ll be back down south quicker than you can say “SNP landslide”.