Something to ponder
There are a couple of opinion polls in the papers this morning, of which independence campaigners are naturally paying most attention to the ICM one for Scotland on Sunday which shows referendum voting at a hair’s-breadth 48% Yes to 52% No (after removing Don’t Knows).
But perhaps more revealing is one in the Sunday Telegraph regarding the imminent European elections, which puts Labour on 30%, UKIP on 27%, the Tories on 22% and the Lib Dems – the only actively Europhile party south of Scotland – on just 8%.
If you apply those figures to the electorate of the rUK, excluding Scotland, that means that there are something like 11.3 million UKIP voters in England, as opposed to a total Scottish electorate of 4 million.
Readers may wish to consider for a moment which of those groups is likely to have a stronger influence on the direction of UK politics in the coming years.
That is seriously disturbing. How on Earth did these people get into second place?
For my money it’s a protest vote against the Tories. I think the UKIP vote is soft and will evaporate in a GE. Not so sure about European elections though.
One hopes that they will continue to lose their deposit in Scottish seats.
The MSM and all the BritNat parties will now re direct their bile and dirty tricks to the new bogeyman in the room. Scotland will again, disappear under their London bubble radar, for a spell, and with their eye off the ball, YES can push on hopefully.
Um, I’m guessing UKIP because we’ll be independent?
Any word yet on the Survation poll for the Sunday Post?
Its a case of which would you like first? The good news or the bad? Yet another example of how far apart our politics is drifting.
Cracker Rev.
Complete failure by the English parties to engage the electorate.
Why has the SoS run with the poll story – and front page, no less?
Why wasn’t it binned as “unhelpful”?
Has the Hootsmon changed its spots?
Is it trying to galvanise the No crowd?
Is it trying to make the Yes campaign run out of steam thru’ complacency?
On a more positive note, good to see an ICM poll essentially backing the Rev’s Panelbase poll. So now we can go back to everybody who tried to rubbish it and say “HOW DO YOU LIKE THEM APPLES?”
Was busy on Social media yesterday pointing out that the trajectory has Yes in front by end of July. Will have to go back today and say:
“So sorry, but BT have been so effective in their campaign that more Scots are voting Yes than we thought. Victory assured by end of May. Alba gu bràth.”
No complacency, mind.
We should all remember the words of Viscount Christopher Monckton, long-time Scottish President of UKIP, who wrote “Scots are subsidy junkies, whingeing like a trampled bagpipe, waiting for the next fix of English tax-payers money.”
UKIP is an anti-Scottish party and we should ensure that every Scot is aware of his words before the European elections.
UKIP and the Tory party are two cheeks of the same backside ( as someone who’s name conveniently escapes me , once said ) just like the tea party & republicans in USA
it’s more important than ever we escape from this bunch of butters
We know SLab prefer Tory rule to home rule. Anyone know if the same would apply to UKIP.
The free publicity over the years for Farage and his party have done him no harm at all.
Just goes to prove that you can polish a turd.
Fradge has been milking the EU for £Millions for years.
The lunatics are running the asylum.
Vote YES
Had a bit of a laugh at SoS describing the result as “the highest level of Yes support to be recorded by an independently commissioned opinion poll” followed by Curtice saying “it is the highest Yes vote in a poll that has not been commissioned by a partisan organisation.”
Independent? Non-partisan? The Scotsman? Shurely shome mishtake.
UKIP are being kept afloat by the Right Wing Media, and will make serious gains in the European elections as a protest vote against the coalition.
In return, coalition policies will become even more hardline to try and appease lapsed Tories.
I do think it’s positive for the Yes movement though, because they are so far removed from our own politics that people in Scotland will want to get as far away from them as possible
The UKIP logo is £. Says it all right there.
Angry Weegie
“Independent? Non-partisan? The Scotsman? Shurely shome mishtake”
If the CBI had commissioned a poll, I wonder if that would be non-partisan?
Survation poll in Eastleigh shows UKIP 32, con 28, Lib-dem (incumbents) 27 acording to a rather bizarre rant in the Mail:
link to dailymail.co.uk
For a start, they need to drop the UK from their name.
They are the English Independence Party or EIP.
They are English Anglo-Saxons who are against most things Scottish.
They want Holyrood to be used as some kind of debating chamber for some local government issues and leave the real political thinking to our superior cousins at Westminster.
They are also anti-gay, anti-women of child bearing age, anti-renewable energy, anti-Europe anti-immigration and on and on.
They are a shower of English Anglo-Saxon capitalist racists.
First it was the don’t knows who would be the deciding factor in the referendum,then it was women now I see it is English born voters
A different group each time there is a positive move It will be the people who go out and vote regardless of who they are that will decide
@ caz-m
Nail. Head. Hit. Fracking A+, caz.
Farage is doing us a favour by scaring the bejesus out of the establishment. They now have to fight a war on two fronts, which means BT is going to be increasingly fractured and distracted.
Cannot abide UKIP, but in referendum campaign terms, they are a gift
He’ll soon have to change the party’s name to RUKIP, or RIPUK.
Watching Farage insult Herman von Rompuy, President of the European Council, was one of the most embarrassing, toe curling displays of arrogance and hypocrisy I can think off. If that’s UK politics showing its true colours, then I’m a Dutchman. And a Belgian.
O/T
We are all going to need to bite the bullet here and nominate someone to go and buy a newspaper.
I know it is against everything we stand for on here, but someone will need to go into a newsagents and buy a… Sunday Post.
Cmon, take one for the team, because we are all waitin on this poll result.
“According to the survey, the 15 per cent of the 1,004 sample who were born in England are far more likely to vote No than their Scottish-born counterparts.
Only 28 per cent of English-born voters say they will vote Yes, compared with 58 per cent who say they will vote No.
This contrasts with Scots-born voters who, taken alone, are in favour of independence by 42 per cent to 40 per cent.”
So, the poll also tells us that the majority of Scots (defined as born here) are now Yes.
Personally, I think it is excellent that a quarter of English-born voters have already ‘seen the light’. Those who haven’t are another group which needs specific targeting, like women.
@caz-m
Rev already has it and is tweeting. Survation poll for Sunday Post: Yes 45%, No 55%. A four-point narrowing as he says.
Including DK’s: 38% Yes, 46% No, 15% Don’t know
Newsagents body-swerved
Hey, less of the Anglo-Saxon abuse. UKIP are corrupt and autocratic, very non Anglo-Saxon in my mind. The bulk of the English population is made up of Celtic and Anglo-Saxon genetics, they have been sold the same sort of lie as the rest of us.
UKIP is a part of that lie. A dangerous part too. I think both Labour and the Tories thought to begin with they could use UKIP to scare them own support back to their bosoms, like a bogeyman. “If you don’t vote for us, look see UKIP will get in instead”. Trouble is, what gets reported about UKIP makes them look reasonable. Only recently have I read about their internal corruption issues, and now it’s too late.
Something I need to know is ….. Why aren’t’t you all reading this?
link to bellacaledonia.org.uk
It seems to me that it must be the unaffiliated voters and ex-Libdems , not true blue conservatives who are going to vote UKIP. I suspect the “plague on all their houses” mindset against all the main parties is in play.
What do they think they are getting? Something fresh and new? No, no, no.
Take a look at just a few facts NF CV prior to politics
His father was a stockbroker.
He went to a Public School (but did not go to Uni)
Work in the City trading commodities.
Drexel Burnham Lambert until 1986 [1] ,
Credit Lyonnais Rouse
Refco
Natexis Metals
[1] forced into bankruptcy in February 1990 by its involvement in illegal activities in the junk bond market
@RogueCoder
Rev saves another Winger from the embarrassment of going into a newsagent to buy a newspaper.
I thought the poll in the Post would have shown us at over the 40% mark, but every little helps, as they say.
Some fruitcake from Better Together on BBC Radio Scotland headlines show talking utter nonsense.
I hope I’m not the only one listening to this woman. She is in total denial of ALL the facts.
@Caroline
The term Anglo-Saxon isn’t abusive, it’s fact.
There is the 10% who don’t want a Paliament in Scotland, and they are lumped in with those No voters who somehow think there is some possibilty of the mythical devoplus.
Combining this with all the clear evidence that there will be no more significant powers for Scotland(Labour’s meaningless devolution ‘proposals’), there are going to be a lot of very, very disappointed No voters even if the vote goes to No.
I would say Labour are so frantically trying to find a way to hold onto power that the voter has become irrelevant to them except as a number.
The Conservatives have suggested a plan for Trident if Scotland becomes Independent, on the same issue Labour have none and blunder on.
It would be extraordinary if the Tories pulled a blinder, and offered Devoplus, caste iron guaranteed!
This would allow them to keep Trident, have the Scottish population for the armed forces as usual, charge for defence and foreign policy( which they would still control), no lose of face, prestige enhanced, and Labour would be left standing with it’s pants down.
Maybe it would suit Cameron if UKIP did OK in the Euroelections. It would send a core of fruitbats into Bruxelles, scare the bejeebies out of the Euro nations and he could wrest some “victories” for demands for returned powers from Bruxelles?
Anyway I am sure that the UKipers, now renamed FUKIPERS, back to the Tories in the next GE?
Who cares, whichever way these clowns help us.
@ Andrew Morton – something you need to know – I just did and its awesome
Happy Easter everyone one
@ Andrew Morton, I have and isn’t good, that piece on Bella.
Ukip are a manifestation of the problems as seen in England, they have a three Party Political system which is not seen as serving anyone aka they are all the same. Along come Ukip, anti immigration, anti Europe, and remember there is nobody in the media who articulates a pro Europe stance. The Tories have been turning themselves outside in over Europe for decades but doing nothing about is other than winding up the population. I am sorry to say many in England feel beleaguered, no work, no hope, no money and no political party other than Ukip who talk a good game but will prove to have feet of clay when it comes down to it. I realise not everyone in England feels the same way but they do tend to be anti just about everyone, the dislike the French, The Germans, us. They want to run their country without perceived interference.
Remind you of anyone, except we don’t mind as long as we get to have a word.
Good news about the latest ICM survey. The ‘No’ campaign lost 4% going from 46% to 42% which to be quite honest, is absolutely staggering, while ‘Yes’ went up 1% to 39%.
Things are going to be mighty interesting come June.
@Caroline Cornfield, quite rite Caroline as Prof Cunt ace said we are a Mongarl Nation ( unless your a South African Ridgeback )an I dont agree with the Prof very often.
I said it a long time ago, when Nigel was hasseled in Edinburgh,UKIP are a benifit to us a two pronged attack
on Westminster,they have no chance in Scotland ( cousins of the monster raving loony party.
@Caz-M, this condition of mine has its advantiges, I can go out on my own,so am no gone fur the Sunday post.
Ur wee awe done rollin our Eggs,another start of a good week & Cameron in the spotlight over John Caplin £60bil
public funds( how much of that has been syphoned off,we need answers.
On Radio Scotland just now,much is made of money spent by SG on White Paper but no riposte on money spent by Westminster and Whitehall on advisory papers and blogs. I reckon more is spent by London to preserve their kleptocracy.
Listening to Headlines, Lallands Peat Worrier is on and doing well. No idea who the Labour lady is but I think she encapsulates Better Together’s problems. She is toeing the Better Together/Labour line, despite being a CND supporter and despite being sceptical about the Tory interventions. Her view that it is just one poll, it was to be expected and Ed and Gordon will save the day seems at best optimistic.
She got off to a wobbly start by sounding like she was suggesting that the Yes poster campaign was funded by Government money and I did think it was going to be a another vitriolic fear and smear job but Ken challenged her on that and thankfully she has steered clear of any of that sort of stuff and has been better than many that appear ostensibly on the No side (although she has come more into her own on the ructions in the Middle East).
The BBC seem to have an unhealthy fixation on the cost of the white paper, designed to answer all those unanswered questions, it seems every other week it is the subject of discussion on GMS. They definitely have a lack of balance issue or a blind spot when it comes to highlighting the cost of 13 anti indy papers from the British State and the cost of assorted flunkeys sent north to deliver them.
I fear that as the polls show that the Union is indeed in mortal danger, I think the BBC bias will get worse as their raison d’etre is defence of the British State is it not.
Is it not the case the Tories have some kind of agreement with UKIP wherein the Tories are getting their voters to vote UKIP so they (Tories) can control what happens in the EU by stealth?
I read about this recently here;
link to dailymail.co.uk
Andrew, I’m loving the Banksy on Bella…
link to bellacaledonia.files.wordpress.com
Thanks for the link, a few interesting things. The fact that the independence debate is now looking to be majority YES for the Scottish born is a very good sign. Perhaps people born in Scotland and especially the YES voters who weren’t should now consider ‘love bombing’ the people who have chosen to move to Scotland.
A do believe though, that once a few polls start showing YES is leading that the YES leaning DKs and soft NOs will switch and once you break NO in a few polls it’s going to be one way traffic in future polls as BT become even more vile in their attacks.
Oh my last comment did not appear!!!
Where’s the poll from a few weeks back (forget which polling company) that supposedly had Yes in the lead? Saw it mentioned on a few sites but there’s been nothing in the MSM.
ICM poll apparently has 15% born in England according to the SoS. Age 16+ 2011 census is only 9.6% born in England which would suggest the poll is even better for Yes than it appears.
Need to see the full tables for a CoB re-weight to properly match Scotland’s demographic.
This excluding the DK’s? Are they simply being split proportionally with the overall percentages of Y and N?
If they are, then does this then, not take into consideration that DK’s are more likely to vote Y. I have heard before about 2:1.
Scottish Skier, I was born in England, but I wonder if someone like me born in the military to Scottish parents counts? My sister was born in Germany… does she count as an EU voter? No wonder AS most rightly insisted on it being the people who live and work here getting the vote.
Nigel Farage sounds more like a Norman French name and not Anglo Saxon. Would be amusing if he turns out to be a descendant of those French immigrants, and well known internationalists, the Normans.
@scottish_skier
YouGov are even worse. I suspect this is partly why a lot of the polling companies fail to predict Scottish votes. Their samples are skewed.
So does that make panelbase more accurate? I’m not sure what they find wrt where born and the census data but they do seem to do better than other pollsters though BT etc denigrate them for it. Oh well if they want to delude themselves I say we let them.
How come dudes like Farage get so much media coverage, air time, soapbox etc and 100% more than the Greens or anyone else. Fair enough far right Torygraph and Mail but the BBC grovels to these idiots too. Something very unpleasant is going out there in teamGB elitist freak show.
I wonder if the media’s obsession with UKIP will stop after the Euro Elections and they move on to something else.
I see the Yes campaign are away to start putting up new billboards and a new set of newspaper adverts.
link to yesscotland.net
@Alba4Eva
Genetics, place of birth or skin colour has feck all to do with it. I define Scottish as a state of mind, a sense of belonging to, and ownership of, Scotland.
Doesn’t matter if you were born of Scots, born abroad, born on a bus halfway across the border, or you just moved to Scotland because the housing was cheap and the air fresh. Scotland is a nation, and the people who inhabit it – whether physically or emotionally – are all Scots in my eyes.
It’s a love affair with the most beautiful country in the world (although I would say that). And anyone who carries Scotland in their hearts and in their heads has a right to express an opinion on her future.
Except Westminster Tories, naturally.
they are still obsessed with this party being the coming thing in Scotland. Their vote share for last EU elections was 6% down 3 from their previous outing. Their vote share in last GE was .97% that was up 0.28% from their last outing.
I think the EU elections this year are going to clearly underline how different Scotland is from the rest of the rUK. I fully expect a certain group of commentators to go into meltdown. They have been desperately pushing the line that Scotland differs very little from the rUK.
They’ll not stop pushing that line. Which will make it all them more surreal, as few will recognise the Scotland they seem to be talking about.
I think the Sunday Telegraph could be the straw that pushes the *support for the union* camel’s back. I mean that up till now most Scottish companies have been saying that they want to remain within the E.U. however with UKIP now showing that they are well within a hairs breadth of taking poll position in the European elections next month then this is a wake up call to all Scottish businesses still sitting on the fence about Scottish independence. No longer can they sit on the fence. After May’s elections they are all going to have to sit up and face a very uncomfortable fact,UKIP will have won more seats than ever before and they appear to be heading for a position of power in Westminster.
Of course voting in the E.U. elections and Westminster elections are two entirely different beasts. However there is one elephant in the room that may ensure that these elections are not so different this time around, David Cameron’s *ahem* promise to hold an “In/Out” referendum on E.U. membership in 2017. This more than anything else will, I believe, ensure that the UKIP vote holds up through the 2015 General Election and ensures that we will more than likely have another coalition government in place. This time however I do not believe it will be a Troy and Lib Dem one but a Tory and UKIP coalition.
The Lib Dems are, in my view, a spent force who will be lucky to hold onto their current crop of M.P.’s. Labour will probably retain most of their M.P.’s as will the Tories but it is UKIP who will gain the most, largely at the expense of the Lib Dems. Another factor that will ensure a return to power for the Tories will of course be the loss to the Lib Dems and Labour of 11 M.P’s and 41 M.P.’s respectfully.
Genetics, place of birth or skin colour has feck all to do with it. I define Scottish as a state of mind, a sense of belonging to, and ownership of, Scotland.
Hmm, just had a more lengthy post vanish…
The above is correct. However there is a big correlation between natID and Y/N. NatID closely correlates with CoB which is only to be expected.
CoB is not something you’d get wrong nor feel a reason to be shy / lie about. Ergo it would be an excellent weighting factor.
If you are out on CoB, your poll is not demographically representative (Iimagine a poll on migration that had too many migrants or a poll on the EU which had too many people from the EU…), no matter what the poll is asking and particularly for Scotland indyref.
Cmon people dont forget where this English other Nationality,s piece comes from Prof John Curtice ( devide & rule tactic ) make those people feel ( lesser Scot ).
Scotland has always been a more inclusive welcoming Nation
& the Prof is far from a unbais bystander, as many on here
know from the publice meeting Yes is ahead of the No voter
be positive take these polls with a large pinch of salt an
a Large Taquila, Slain them.
Spring in step for YES (maybe); euphoria – please no, dont trust anything tainted by the press & media. Still long way yot go and the polls are easily manipulated by questions set, (previous on this).
Keep focus on Miliband, Brown & Darling in coming week.
Labours finest; the proud ‘Shadow Cabinet’ are popping up for a visit.
More tricks to come from Labour / Tory coalition; please be aware of that.
Suggestion of momentum great but can be fickle, if MSM put their oar in (previous on this).
Investivative online journalism (Rev, NNS, Bella & Bateman)ground work and effective honest canvassing by YES campaign is what is feeding any sort of momentum (not the press polls or TV/Radio media).
Please : if the suggested momentum is exciting to you (and you are in a position to do so), spend more time offline and get out on the streets to canvass, it really makes a difference and you will feel better for it.
This struggle is there to be one by hard work, not luck.
Scottish Enterprise /Visit Scotland resign from CBI,
an humpity dumpity had a Great Fall.
I have just asked Prof Curtice about the implication that the poll conducted by Scotland on Sunday was unbiased but that by implication then that the poll conducted by Panelbase for Wings, was. I will be interested to hear the answer.
Ronnie, I would agree that we are more inclusive than many a nation, but this has sometimes been to our detriment. Yes I would also agree that this line of questioning by nationality is not to be tolerated, this is definitely mischief making of the first order.
I look forward to the day when my country’s broadcasters do not have to repeat endless news that has no bearing on Scotland or its people whatsoever.
When I want to learn of a specific issue discussed at Westminster I can use free will to check the facts by internet or news bulletin made through existing outlets.
@Capella
Farage is a Huguenot name.
I remember Farage using this to make capital. “I am the descendant of Huguenots. so I know all about the oppression of minorities” or something similar.
link to en.wikipedia.org
Interesting that the Westminster Government are still trying to whip up opposition to an Independent Scotland in the diplomatic community. The Sunday Times have an article on it and the SNP have issued a press release.
The Sunday Times reports this morning that former Defence Secretary Liam Fox has urged foreign governments to break their silence and oppose Scottish independence. Fox was at a dinner in Washington DC where he claimed that he had had meetings with officials from various countries about the issue and had been met with “awkward” moments of silence when Scottish independence was raised by him.
Fox’s comments come hard on the heels of his colleague in the No campaign, Lord George Robertson, who spoke of a ‘cataclysm’ for the world if the people of Scotland vote Yes in September, and also spoke – bizarrely – of “dark forces”. Defence and Foreign Affairs spokesperson for the SNP, Angus Robertson MP, commented: “This is clear evidence that the No campaign are going around the world trying to stir up ill-will against Scotland, spreading misinformation about Scotland, and unsuccessfully lobbying governments overseas to intervene in our political process.
Taking ‘Project Fear’ on tour in this underhand way shows just how panicked people at Westminster are about losing control of Scotland, as the Yes campaign continues to close the gap. “These remarks, which were obviously intended to be secret, also demonstrate that Lord George Robertson’s ‘apocalyptic’ speech wasn’t an aberration – he is clearly working hand-in-glove with the Tories.
I can’t believe people are actually going to vote ukip,and if the Euro election results are going to reflect next years general election,Scotland has to vote yes.
Keep hearing about Westminster politicians and lords going to the USA,what with lord Robertsons trip just happenning to coincide with the FM trip.I wonder what economic benefit (ie jobs) they all secured or brought for their constituents.
Has Iain McMillan resigned yet?
And if not, why not?
The woman on BBC Scotland (?) “Headlines” this morning was ex Lab MSP Pauline McNeill – a very confused lady who imagines that those who destroyed the British economy viz Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling will do anything positive for NO Better Together. These two no-necks and one a house flipper have no credibility left. Brown will concentrate on pensions – didn’t he rob billions of pounds from pension funds which had to have a knock on effect and didn’t he double taxes for the lowest paid. Ms McNeill is also involved with an organisation friendly to Palestinians – does she believe that us staying in a right wing (and sliding further right) UK will do anything to help those poor souls. She sounded weak to me. Maybe she is a closet YES!
O/T I was going to suggest a sweepstake on the next topic BT would recycle but it looks like the Hootsmon has let the cat out of the bag.
Gordy is going to tell us we cannot afford pensions this week. Now who will the supporting acts be – from the Cabinet – IDS perhaps? A visit from Mr Bedroom Tax will really go down well.
bjsalba
I think he saying that we cannot afford HIS pension. He will be walking on eggshells there as who raided the Pension funds way in the previous decade? None other than himself.
Sorry, O/T.
So, then. After a 25-year working-life in the Far East, that’s me now back in Scotland.
Ending, or putting on hold, so much – work, relationships, etc. – has been tough. But there was no way – no way – that I was going to miss the referendum, the months of campaigning beforehand and getting out there to ensure a ‘Yes’ vote.
Associates (all non-Scots) said stuff like, “Are you nuts? You’re giving this up to go back for… well, what, exactly?” Replies from me such as, “I’m going to help get my country back.” and “The referendum is more important than you can ever know. How many people have lived and died wanting an independent Scotland, and here we have the chance to do so with a democratic vote? I’m going back there to do my part.” were responded to with sighs and more questioning.
But, hey, what would they know?
How do you explain how you feel when you take your Scottish banknotes to Bureaux de Change and banks outwith Scotland only to have them rejected for not being ‘real’ pounds sterling… no matter how much you argue the case that they are, indeed, ‘real’?
(From not so long ago) How do you explain how you feel when your travellers-cheques in pounds sterling issued by Scottish banks are rejected because they are not from ‘real’ banks ie English?
How do you explain how you feel when your country is thought of as a region of England?
How do explain how you feel when all that is known about your country is from stereotypes, and not all positive?
How do you explain how you feel when your country’s history, culture and gaelic language are basically unknown about?
How do you explain how you feel when your country and its people are viewed through an English (country) prism?
How do you explain what it means to be Scottish, something that’s inside you and never leaves…?
And, etc.
So here I am today. The financial hit is going to be hard with no money coming in and bills to be paid, but at least there is a place to stay (Mid-Argyll). But, whatever, I can’t wait to get going on doing what I have to do to get that ‘Yes’ vote in September.
And what do you know, it’s a beautiful sunny day here without a cloud in the sky! It’s a sign, I tell you, and definitely a good one!
Marcia 11.25
Good post Marcia. Lord Naw Naw Robertson is not the only Labour wallah working hand in hand with the Tories. Some of these Labour politicians are more right wing than the Tories.
“Blackhole Brown” has a nice ring to it.
Welcome back Dal Riata. We’re going to win this!
Dal-Riata – as someone who lived and worked in the Far East for a number of years, particularly HK, I know how tough it is to leave the sunshine, fabulous social life and sport to come home. Like you however the future of my country is far more important to me than my personal comfort and pleasure. Welcome home – there really is no place like it! Good Luck.
@ Dal Riata, Firstly Welcome home, and yes we all feel somewhat similar when abroad. Nobody seems to have the problems we have. I remember well on a trip to the Murano Glass factory circa the nineteen eighties when asked if we in the tour were all from England saying no that we were not but from Scotland, gasp, well it is all the same, another gasp when I said no indeed it was not. We were expected to accept we were just another second class citizen I expect. Had money rejected in England and travellers cheques caused a stooshy in Barcelona also a few years ago. After speaking to the Bank Manager they did pay out.
Dal Riata 11.57
Welcome home. I keep telling some of my NO acquaintances that this referendum is not about economic considerations and I would still be voting YES even if it was proved that I would be worse off financially. Like yourself some people regard me as a crank. However I do feel sorry for people whose lives are dominated by money.
@ Dal Riata
Total respect. There’s no way we’ll lose with the likes of you on our side.
Headtracker said.
Q. “How come dudes like Farage get so much media coverage, air time, soapbox etc ”
A. Because the BBC are grooming him to split the ConDems vote to try and give Labour a leg up, which is the only out come that virtually guarantees that the BBC luvvies stay in their lavish cocoon of comfort and entitlement. The BBC need Labour in power. If the SNP win the day in Scotland the BBC are finished. If the ConDem stay in power the BBC are staring down the barrel of losing the licence fee and their golden goose.
bjsalba
The Labour Party Shadow Cabinet are also heading for North Britain at the end of the week to frighten the shit out of the natives.
We are not worthy, Oh mighty Ed’ I bow to you’re superior knowledge.
With all these ministers going up and down the UK, it’s getting a bit like “The Grand Old Duke of York” now.
It really is becoming comical.
“He marched them up to the top of the hill
and he marched them down again”
C’mon, join in, you know how it goes.
And talking of Gordon Brown, did he not sell off the UK Gold reserves.
Him and his partner in crime, Darling, really did make sure that the UK economy was on it’s knees when they left Government.
And this is the very same people who are telling Scots that we are better off sticking with a UK economy that is on the verge of one almighty crash. Again.
@Dal Riata – Excellent, copied your post for future use.
@ Dal Riata
Respect, much respect. And welcome home!
You already have a network of ready-made friends right here.
Being travelling around in Asia and on numerous occasions being asked how will Scotland fares if the choice is YES?
Interesting to note, majority support/believe she will excels economically, bloom on her natural strength and no longer shadows by the neighbour.
HenBroon 12.22
The BBC are in deep trouble on two fronts. Firstly as you point out when Scotland becomes independent and secondly there are already moves in rUK to decriminalise non payment of the licence fee. The reason for this being that there are so many non payers now the courts and prisons cannot handle them all.
@HenBroon 12.22pm
Brilliant spot. The BBC and BBC Scotland know “the end is nigh”.
No more Campbell, Fraser, Taylor, Bird etc…
And the sun’s out.
i dont like the idea of joining another union that dictates and robs the citizens of Scotland,i will go to the polling booth on 22 may what i do with the ballot paper is another matter
Arbroath 1320
how the ruk votes after sept, will hopefully be irrelevant,
what is relevent is what happens on the political scene between now and sept
eg, a big win for ukip in the eu election, i believe, is worth 2% swing to the yes side
if libdems are routed, which seems likely, will there be a leadership challenge against clegg from within? will the coalition fail if this happens? could there be a ge in the offing before sept if this happens? we need to keep the eye on the ball and pre-emt what happens between now and sept, beyond that is a different territory and should not concern us
“caz-m says:
20 April, 2014 at 12:27 pmbjsalba
The Labour Party Shadow Cabinet are also heading for North Britain at the end of the week to frighten the shit out of the natives. ”
they wont be holding court in the clp anniesland
link to scotsman.com
No arguments from me Roguecoder, I was just pointing out the stupidity of the media attempting to analyse percentages of people, catogorised by place of birth, on how they are likely to vote.
@schrodingers cat
As that Scottish Labour halfwit said on the radio this morning, “We know there are a lot of undecided members in our Party”,
Is Mike Dyer another on of those undecided members?
@Bill McLean
Yeah – Labour keep pumping the ‘trusted and respected’ bullshit over Brown & Darling.
Both failed yesterdays men as pointed out by YES spokeperson.
Can only work to YES advantage in the long run, brown will blow a gaket at some point and Darling keeps getting in a muddle as always.
And to Dal Riata… welcome home and we WILL win this.
Dal Riata – a warm welcome home to Bonny Scotland. As said previously you already have a large network of WOS friends here and if you would be interested in attending a WOS night out, go into ‘Off-Topic’ 2nd bottom of Zany Comedy column.
The Man in the Jar says:
20 April, 2014 at 11:23 am@Capella
Farage is a Huguenot name.
……..it is also malysian for vagina
@ Hotrod Cadets, Bill McLean, Helena Brown, Jimsie, Dave Beveridge, Croompenstein, Rogue Coder
Thanks a million to you all for the kind words! Much appreciated.
Poor in cash, but rich in positivity.
My financial situation is going to be difficult for a while, no doubt about that, but it will be a small price to pay, and well worth it when that majority ‘Yes’ result comes through on September 18/19.
I want to be able to go to bed on the night of September 17th knowing I’ve done all that I can to increase the chances of Scotland becoming independent – I couldn’t live with myself otherwise.
When that ‘Yes’ result is confirmed… well, how good is that going to feel!
o/t
i noticed a comment about brown being back in the fold of better together…….
that should ensure the other labour clp’s in scotland declare for yes
@ Alba4Eva and TJenny
And thanks to you, too, for your kind words! Much appreciated.
Hope over fear. Let’s do this!
@ Dal Riata
I came back to Scotland from abroad in 1977 to no job, hoping the forthcoming (1979) referendum was going to make this a better place. We all know what happened then. I often wonder how my life would have been if I had stayed where I was because I was in a very privileged job. If we get a good result this September the last 30-odd years of shit will all have been worthwhile and I can die in peace.
Indeed welcome back dal Riata – with folk like you and ?Braco – did he get a job – coming back boosts our chances of winning.
Just about held my temper listening to ‘Love you country?’ on BBC 4 – banging on about ‘what exactly is a nation state’, the modern kilt was invented in the 18th century – we know – the Highlander that we now see on shortbread tins used to be thought of as a ‘criminal’ – can’t remember the exact word used and suggesting devolution was the way to go, blah, blah.
Also with Ronnie about not trusting the MSM – the Herald had a two page spread from a disaffected previous member of the Yes campaign stating it was now an SNP front and more to follow next week.
Yes, Like Dal Riata, just came back last Thursday from a teaching job in Thailand.
I have not found it easy and am still struggling a bit, but I couldn’t miss this moment in Scotland’s future.
We will win this!:-)
@ Man in the Jar re Hugenot name, thanks for the info. Also Shroedingers Cat but I don’t know if I really wanted to know that!
You’d think that NF would be more tolerant under the circs.
Dal Riata
Welcome back, and to Argyll as well!
Mid Argyll and Kintyre need everyone we can get, not always easy out there…!
I’m near Campbeltown BTW.
Liz says – 14:14
“the modern kilt was invented in the 18th century – we know ”
Rubbish! The small kilt was around before that.
“A false story has long circulated about the creation of the small kilt that maintained two English tailors invented this form in 1727. However, in Gaelic oral history it was known that the small kilt predates this time. The English creation myth persisted in some circles until writer Clifford Smyth produced an illustration of the small kilt in use in 1690 and put an end to the pseudo history of the small kilt.”
link to theredshank.blogspot.co.uk
Also –
link to clans.org.uk
@KOF – I think they were talking more about the pleats and the colourful range of tartan.
I did know about the kilt in the articles provided.
I was more annoyed about the programme itself which I felt was muddying the waters somewhat re nation states, devolution and independence.
Apologies Liz, I get very frustrated about “Scotch myths”. Y’know, kilts, exaggerated Scottish deaths in WW1, etc.
Yeah, I know what you mean about “muddying the waters”, it get’s my goat too. The BBC seem particularly adept at it.
@Dal Riata, you did say a while back that you wanted to
come home, glad to see you’ve managed it A hearty welcome
home,no doupt weil meet up at one of the WOS night out.
Just as I said yesterday:
The one thing people NEED to know is that if there were ever to be a ‘No’ vote, it looks increasingly VERY likely that a UKIP/Tory coalition would be in force DISMANTLING THE SCOTTISH PARLIAMENT (according to the UKIP policy in the article linked above)- The Scottish people NEED to know this – The ONLY vote FOR the people of Scotland is a YES vote!
link to gerryhassan.com
Based on the Sunday Telegraph opinion poll for the Euro election I reckon in England Con will get 17 seats (down 6) Lab 19 seats (up 9) LD 3 seats (down 7) UKIP 18 seats (up 6) Green 2 seats (no change) and BNP 0 seats (down 2) In Scotland SNP 3, Lab 2, Con 1 LD lose 1 to SNP
In Wales no change 1 each for Lab, Con, PC and UKIP
Dal Riata & Patrick Roden, glad to have you back hame, there’s a rare battle ahead with every Westminster agency and almost every part of the MSM & BBC ranged against us.
Not forgetting our own so-called proud or london Scottish unionists who would rather stab Scotland in the back than get their snouts out of the westminster trough.
You will find it hard to believe some of the shite our own have called us just for the sake of their political party’s, but regardless of all that we have taken them on headfirst and we know we are winning, lots still to do but you will help out massively.
We are a broad church with lots of different ideas, arguements and styles but together we have but one aim –
VOTE YES, VOTE SCOTLAND.
Welcome hame.
@Dal Riata. Maximum respect to you for grasping the nettle, lobbing the career out of the window to come back and take part in the biggest thing most of is have ever been part of.
It’s my intention to do exactly the same.
I’m now in the very fortunate position (and I’m acutely aware and grateful of my good fortune) of being able to take early retirement after this month’s end with enough to pay off the millstone, sorry mortgage.
I intend to do this and move the short distance over the border to get my vote.
All my adult life I’ve spent feeling that something wasn’t quite right and it was Wings and Bella that became my ‘Red Pill’ that opened my eyes to the hope and possibilities that independence presents. Precious little else occupies my thoughts right now and I feel that this is the right time to make the break. I won’t be rich but I’ll have enough each month for subsistence if I can’t land any work but I consider that a good price to experience, for the first time in my life, democratic empowerment.
@David Smith –
More power to ye mister. Welcome aboard.
Is it just me – but we are saving the British Isles.
Andrew Parrot at 5.47
I am very confident that we will get three but these are hard to call. UKIP will poll poorly in Scotland but whatever poll they manage will come from the Tory vote (and to a lesser extent the LibDems). I wouldn’t be remotely surprised if we got four because the huge effort of YES across Scotland is quite likely to provide a distortion and the SNP support coming out when large part of the Labour and Tory vote doesn’t. It would be nice for the Greens to get one but as they don’t do the work on the ground they probably don’t deserve to.
@Paula; nah, you’re bob-on. Whilst we’re doing this for our own country in the first instance. Victory in the referendum will plant the seed that sprouts true democracy in every constituent nation of the current UK.
Schrodingers cat
Looking for UKIP to do well in the hope of it affecting the referendum. That way lies madness. We need to nip the UKIP Modern Facism in thd bud before it gains traction. We really need to be aware and remember from the early 20th century what happens when Prople like Farage start getting the popular vote.
Just seen a nice quote on the Guardian website that makes me wish I could vote Yes twice.
“If you don’t want to be a part of Britain, then don’t take any of it with you. It’s not as if you’ve earned the right, unless you class a few castles, regiments and a bit of oil as a healthy contribution to the Union.”
Lovely sentiment, this must be that famous lovebombing from Bitter Together that I have heard so much about.
Dal riata and Patrick rodden,
people like yourselves are the reason we shall win. You give up everything to vote,on the other hand if you placed a polling booth at half of the no pollers front gate they still wouldn’t bother. And a great welcome home from myself.
link to scotsman.com
“Tories could lose Scottish MEP seat to Ukip”
For Heavens’s sake! Makes you wonder about some of our compatriots! I suppose these same people are hardcore No-voters too.
“Ukip the modern facism” yeah right. Ukip have been at the forefront of warning against facism in the EU parlaiment and its rise in the Mediterranean states as a response to the lack of consent when it comes to the EU dictating policy, austerity over national governments.
Of course it was Brussels that pandered to the facist nazi nationalists in the Ukraine.
The UKIP has absolutely nothing to offer Scotland except nightmares. If they ever get power in Westminster, their plan for Holyrood, as outlined in their 2011 manifesto, is to ‘Retain the Scottish Parliament’ but ‘Replace MSPs with Scottish Westminster MPs’. WTF!
More details in this article by Gerry Hassan:
link to gerryhassan.com
Bloody Hell! What a nightmare! Vote Yes, and time to redouble the efforts!
Wake up David: UKIP renounced the 2010 manifesto and are committed to devolution. Farage was even on record two weeks ago supporting the principle of self determination. His view and mine is this. The SNP vision is not “independence” if your in the EU.
Speaking about Scottish referendum in a Telegraph video Q & A he said:
“I believe in national self determination and if that is what the people of Scotland want.Of course I want Scotland to stay but Would I Prevent the Scots from leaving the United Kingdom. No I would not. But the the debate in Scotland is a false debate.Salmond is not offering independence.You can’t be an independent sovereign state and be a member of the EU at the same time. However, If the Scots want to become the whatever number province of the EU. Then they should have it”.
Not one person has even queried the claim that there are ‘something like 11.3 million UKIP voters in the UK’. That would have given them an overall majority at the 2010 UK election. As it was, they didn’t win a single seat.
The case for Scottish independence can be made without resorting to this sort of gross exaggeration. It is made very eloquently in a number of the above comments.
Sorry for having to be a dissenting voice, but once we stop subjecting our own side to critical scrutiny as well then we become just as bad as the other side.
“That would have given them an overall majority at the 2010 UK election.”
PRO TIP: It’s not 2010 any more.
Stuart: I am in fact aware that it is not 2010. I was merely using the 2010 election result as a way of illustrating that the original article seemed to contain a fairly gross exaggeration of the number of UKIP voters in England, which is something that you don’t seem to have denied. Would you like to deny that?