A simple guide
Posted on
April 22, 2013 by
Chris Cairns
The world's most-read Scottish politics website
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Wings Over ScotlandA tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
brilliant
A cracker!
Gobsmacked!
Yes, ironic isn’t it that Better Together is being funded by such a volatile and unpredictable resource – which everyone knows will run out very very shortly…. although not necessarily for the reasons that Alastair Darling keeps banging on about.
I believe that Norway is going to stop producing oil as its just too much hassle and you just never know the minute when it will run out.
Says it all… in black and white!
The name Vitol bears an uncanny resemblance to “Vitriol” Are they in any way related? Perhaps we should be told?
Steady now, that Better Together logo might be breach of copyright. They’ll sue if they don’t like it! What’s that? It’s the Scottish Football Association Youth League Logo? Ah, well that’s ok then.
Mind it better be, or you might find yourself being awakened by a knock at the door in the middle of the night by the Redcoats demanding you tell the truth.
“Good Oil”= diluted (taken apart)
“BAD Oil”=undiluted(still retaining it`s core ingredients)
And we’ll have the inevitable wittering on Scotland Tonight and Newsnight Scotland about Scotland no longer being able to print notes.
I might give it a miss.
Do we actually print our own notes or do we have our own notes printed somewhere else? Not that it matters much either way, except that if they’re printed elsewhere Johann will want to know why they’re not made in Scotland from Scottish steel.
@pa broon – Hope you watched Scotland Tonight pa, George Kerevan absolutely destroyed Alf Young on the currency debate. Brilliant!
A simple guide to currency union.
Whichever currency Scotland adopts depends on who is negotiating . What is Labour’s or Tory’s preferred currency. Sterling no doubt.
The rest of UK needs a currency union because the UK balance of payments deficit is £38 billion but if you remove oil and whisky revenues from the UK figures then the UK deficit becomes £88 billion and valuable collateral would be lost to help support sterling if Scotland adopts a different currency.
Just hearing on the telly that George Osborne is coming to Scotland tomorrow to mither on about one thing or another, this should more than mitigate any damage from the bogus ‘Scotland cannae print its ane notes ony more!’ story.
It’ll be fine.
Treasury figures cannot be trusted
On 11 April the Public Accounts Committee report calls the whole UK government accounting system into disrepute. It lays out in clear terms that the public finances are not being managed effectively. Having examined the way Treasury accounts are presented it comes to the conclusion that the government’s financial books are ‘an elaborate accounting exercise’, that figures provided are not ‘a meaningful tool’ and that government accounting is not transparent, and when eventually presented still has to be qualified and revised.
The words of the Public Accounts Committee should be ringing in our ears next week. It is even more clear after this report that only by voting Yes in September 2014 can we have responsible management of Scotland’s economy.
@Bill C says:
22 April, 2013 at 10:56 pm
@pa broon – Hope you watched Scotland Tonight pa, George Kerevan absolutely destroyed Alf Young on the currency debate. Brilliant!
…and then he went on to destroy John McFall on Newsnicht (smart mover btw)!
Also on the programme was Jim Cuthbert who despite Andrew Kerr’s trying to get him to say the SNP policy on a currency union with rUK was mince, in fact said it was an inevitable immediate term move. But to heap woe on rUK he said that in the longer term their economy was doomed and it would be wise for Scotland to aim for a different currency arrangement in due course.
All in all, not a bad night for the team, but let’s see what Osborne comes up with tomorrow…
@Alan Gerrish – Aye I watched that Alan, McFall only out for his own gravy train. I have to confess I think that Jim Cuthbert has a point and that eventually an independent Scotland will have its own currency. However, post independence it makes sense to keep the pound in the immediate future. One thing for sure, Britain is approaching bankruptcy sooner rather than later.
All in all, not a bad night for the team, but let’s see what Osborne comes up with tomorrow…
Tomorrow now being today – and St George’s day at that. A rather fitting day for a Tory to come up to Scotland and tell us our to run our country – from the man that narrowly escaped a A++ downgrade last week on his handling of the economy. If the Scottish figures hadn’t been as good as they were (relatively) then Osbourne would have seen that lower downgrade.
@Bill C
Hope you watched Scotland Tonight pa, George Kerevan absolutely destroyed Alf Young on the currency debate. Brilliant!
Good. Alf Young is another Arthur Midwinter type character. Has Scottish Labour connections, but that is never referred to in the MSM (or by himself for that matter).
O/T but why are we in Crocektford at 00.30 having massive tracked and armed vehicles with guns and soidgers in armed uniforms driving a 30 minute convoy through our village?Anybody know who we are going to kill next?Or have we gained independence briefly,and now it is being snuffed out?At least they willnae need to take out the TV/Radio stations
Excellent cartoon, as always. Speaking of bad/good dichotomies, has anyone else noticed Labour types going on about “good politics” and “bad politics” recently? The best was Anas Sarwar on Newsnicht last week – it reminded me of the “Good AIDS/Bad AIDS” thing from the legendary Brasseye.
Chris Morris would have had so much fun with Sarwar on Brasseye – I can just imagine him saying “I’m talking Nonce Sense.”
Thanks Chris for putting a smile on my face at this hour. The dog’s completely confused now!!
O/T but I see NNS have a story on the SNP putting the ginger minger on the spot about vitol and EBT payments….. get’s more interesting by the day.
Cheers Boorach, had missed that one.
http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/referendum/7241-danny-alexander-latest-to-be-challenged-over-better-together-donation
Here’s hoping the Yes campaign really go for it today and crank up the pressure over Taylorgate – all the pish about currency is as dull as dishwater compared to this, and Lamont still has a lot of questions which remain unanswered, not least of which is ‘were you aware?’, repeatedly fired at her by GMS’s David Millar.
On the Topic of why Ed will not be prime minister and Labour have little hope of winning the next UKGE.
http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/2401/Is-Ready-to-be-Prime-Minister-Trends-1994-present.aspx?view=wide
@ Semus.
I believe I heard somewhere that this was the week where Scotland was playing host to some sort of international military training exercises.
http://www.armedforces-int.com/news/first-2013-joint-warrior-military-exercise-begins.html
@ ianbrotherhood
I’ll happily give you 50 – 1 that no-one but no-one will ask the blubber about vitol’s EBT during his state visit today! Nor will he be asked to explain why corporations decide how much they’re taxed by negotiation with HMRC and not by demand as we mere plebs.
@Boorach-
Aye, understood. Osborne will be parachuted in and out (of Glasgow, it seems).
If BT intend to dominate this week with blethers about currency, Yes should ignore them, concentrate on Lamont/Danny Alexander/Rennie/Davidson/Brian Wilson/Darling, and give them both barrels over Taylorgate: when did they know the offer had been made? What did they see on paper about Taylor/Vitol? Were any misgivings expressed at any time? When will Ian Taylor be given back his bloodied dosh?
At present, the Scottish Parliament controls just seven per cent of Scotland’s revenue base, and that would only increase to 15 per cent under the terms of the Scotland Act. With independence, Scotland will control 100 per cent of our revenues, which is what it needs to be to build a stronger economy and fairer society.?”The combination – which only comes with independence – of keeping the pound, accessing Scotland’s abundant resources, and taking decisions on tax and other economic policies that are right for Scotland, is the best way to boost jobs and growth. “Scotland’s finances are consistently stronger than the UK’s – generating more revenue per head than the rest of the UK in each one of the past 30 years – and Scotland has had a lower fiscal deficit than the UK over the past five years. With the additional economic levers that independence will provide, and the up to £1.5 trillion asset base provided by Scotland’s oil and gas reserves, an independent Scotland will stand on a strong financial footing.
http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-economy/7243-independence-would-boost-economic-opportunities-for-scotland
Gideon in Glasgow on St George’s Day just after the Labour Conference to lecture us on fiscal probity and that we’d have to rely on a simple bartering system after Independence, with Alastair Darling in full agreement? Convenient timing I’d say.
@Major Bloodnok-
Aye.
Barter Together.
Oil for panda semen.
“If BT intend to dominate this week with blethers about currency, Yes should ignore them, concentrate on Lamont/Danny Alexander/Rennie/Davidson/Brian Wilson/Darling, and give them both barrels over Taylorgate”
I disagree. We’ll win the referendum by winning the issue that the general public really care about – the economic argument – not by winning an argument about donations that most of the general public have no interest in and that will be long forgotten by the time of the vote.
It is vital that the Yes Campaign show clearly that Scotland will be better off economically after independence, and the currency is obviously a major part of that.
It really makes you wonder about the common sense of Better Together and the Greater Tory Party. Visiting Scotland on St George’s day to lecture us! I mean, come on! Either Danny the Fanny is supremely arrogant or he’s lacking in common sense. He should be having a word in the ear of his boss Gideon. His comic timing is actually pretty good and he’s probably in the wrong job!
Watched Newsnight Scotland and Scotland Tonight last night, I also listened to a bit of Call Kaye this morning because i didn’t feel as if I’d punished myself enough.
Despite their best efforts, the mitherings about Scotland not getting to use the pound don’t seem to be gaining any traction. George Kerevan was good on Newsnight and ST, the lord that was on was plainly and obviously looking out for his own interests (I have no idea why they think people wouldn’t know that…) And Alf Young knew he was talking mince, you could see it in his eyes.
The cherry on the cake will be Osborne up today wittering on about the economy. I look forward to the satire on blogs this should generate; always good for a laugh.
@Norsewarrior-
Hi. Hope you had a nice weekend.
I asked for your thoughts on Taylorgate over at Quarantine last Friday (at 10.55 am), but to save you finding it, here it is:
‘NW, you’re reading this. You are cordially invited to visit Quarantine and give us your thoughts on Taylorgate. I’m not ‘demanding’ anything. I’m not asking any questions. I’m simply requesting that, as a frequent contributor to this site, and one who is clearly abreast of unfolding news, you state your position on Ian Taylor’s donation, BT’s handling of it, and Lamont’s performance this morning. I’m sure many of us are keen to hear your take on this stuff. So, can you please have a go at it sometime today?’
Clearly you were busy, but would you like to address the above before before moving on?
Cheers.
“you state your position on Ian Taylor’s donation, BT’s handling of it, and Lamont’s performance this morning”
I think the whole thing is ethically unsound and that BT should never have accepted the donation in the first place. Quite apart from any links his company has to unsavoury individuals, he isn’t even eligible to vote in the referendum and personally I don’t think anyone in that position should be allowed to donate to either campaign.
But, as I said, while its obviously of interest to those of us on here, the issue of political donations is of very little interest to the general public at large – while of course we should be highlighting potentially dodgy donations, it shouldn’t be to the exclusion of other things – its the economic argument we need to concentrate on.
NW: the economic argument
Was won long ago. That’s why 7 in 10 are willing to vote for full fiscal autonomy/Devo Max and only a minority think Scotland would be financially worse off if it was independent. Unsurprisingly, that’s around 3 in 10, i.e. those that are not up for devo max / FFA. The rest think Scotland would be better off or no worse. Been the same in polls for years now.
It is that final leap into the big bad world – foreign affairs and defense – that has traditionally been the sticking point.
The dodgy donation will not be forgotten. It may stop being mentioned in the papers all the time but e.g. everyone remembers the MPs expenses scandal. These things slip from the limelight, but the electorate don’t forget them. Unionist political parties treat the electorate like they are stupid because they can. What choice do people have; it’s Tory Labour or Lib. When given an alternative, look what happens. In this case, the potential end of Britain…
Out of interest, following on from our discussion on Westminster VI before. Things are looking bad for Labour. All the polls now showing a narrowing gap with the Tories and Ed not seen as PM material with lower positive rankings than Dave. I can’t see how Ed can win in 2015; he needs to be 20 points ahead at least by mid next year.
Some interesting stuff on this from MORI here:
http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/2400/Is-the-Opposition-Ready-for-Government-Trends-1994present.aspx?view=wide
http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/2401/Is-Ready-to-be-Prime-Minister-Trends-1994-present.aspx?view=wide
Ooch. Ed is way behind Tony ahead of 1997 and Dave ahead of 2010. Same applies for Labour as a whole. Only 23% think Labour are ready for government and 24% Ed ready for PM. That’s really not good for Ed. Tory mess or not, the electorate don’t think Ed et al. can do better so they’ll vote the Tories back in; at least they have a plan.
Labour losing ground being picked up by the MSM now:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/20/labour-ukip-poll
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/04/what-lies-behind-labours-shrinking-poll-lead
You can see it in Scots VI too. They made a slight recovery after the disaster that was 2011 but that has stalled or is being lost according to the latest polls for both Westminster and Holyrood VI.
@NW-
Thanks for responding so promptly.
BT accepted the donation – should they now return it?
What about Lamont’s performance versus David Millar (I assume you heard it, or have seen transcripts) – any thoughts?
Speaking as a member of the ‘general public at large’ who, like you, happens to favour independence, don’t you think the Yes campaign should demand full transparency on this dodginess as a matter of urgency?
“BT accepted the donation – should they now return it?”
Yes.
“What about Lamont’s performance versus David Millar (I assume you heard it, or have seen transcripts)”
I didn’t.
“Speaking as a member of the ‘general public at large’ who, like you, happens to favour independence, don’t you think the Yes campaign should demand full transparency”
Neither of us are the ‘general public’ I was referring to. We are both interested enough in politics and independence that we regularly read and comment on a political blog, most of the general public aren’t.
But yes, as I said, obviously the Yes Campaign should highlight any dodgy donations and ask for transparancy, although not at the expense of other issues that I believe will have far more impact on winning the referendum.
So much for not entering into pre emptive negotiations.
Prof Danny Blanchflower, former BoE Monetary Policy Committee member, pretty much laughed off Osborne’s arguments on Radio Scotland yesterday.
To paraphrase he said there are no economics involved in the Treasury’s report, only sybolism.
For the inevitable future independent Scottish currency, can I suggest we call it a Teuch. It’ll be much harder than the Pound.
“the economic argument was won long ago”
So why are both sides still arguing about the currency then? As polls suggest that most Scots will vote for or against independence based on economic issues (i.e a majority would vote against if it meant them being £500 worse off), if the economic argument had indeed been won then presumably the yes vote should be leading in the polls by a large margin?
“Things are looking bad for Labour. All the polls now showing a narrowing gap with the Tories”
Yes I saw those polls the other day. I still can’t see the Tories winning a majority though, I think Labour will probably be the biggest party and then presumably form some sort of rainbow coalition.
@NW-
You haven’t heard the Lamont/Millar interview!?
Well, you’re in for a treat – here it is:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-22214419
Don’t you agree it’s important that we get Lamont and her BT colleagues to provide honest answers to the Taylorgate questions before moving on to other issues?
Nice piece of work and so on the mark.
Slightly o/t, the Guardian is in full carpet bombing mode again over Osborne’s report on a sterling zone currency union. You know they don’t have to shout. One scary story is enough to get their skewed message across. We’re not deaf you know. 🙁
@Norsewarrior
Would you mind, when you quote a previous poster, if you would identify who it is you are quoting. It makes it easier to follow the debate. Thanks, MB.
“The dodgy donation will not be forgotten. It may stop being mentioned in the papers all the time but e.g. everyone remembers the MPs expenses scandal”
Yes but which party had the most MPs who wrongly claimed expenses? The same party that still won the 2010 election just a few months later!
Perhaps a few people will vote based on political donations (or expenses) but the vast majority of the general public have no real interest in such things when it comes to who or what they vote for.
“Don’t you agree it’s important that we get Lamont and her BT colleagues to provide honest answers to the Taylorgate questions before moving on to other issues?”
For the third time, while its obviously important to focus on potentially dodgy donations and request honest answers it should not be at the expense of other issues, no.
We shouldn’t allow the unionists free rein to put across their points on the currency while ignoring what they say and concentrating on the donations issue as you suggested.
When it comes down to it, the question of Scotland’s currency after independence will have far more impact on the referendum than any political donation scandal.
“Would you mind, when you quote a previous poster, if you would identify who it is you are quoting”
Sorry I’ll do that in future. My post at 10.49 am was quoting ‘ianbrotherhood’, and the one at 10.44 am was quoting ‘Scottish_skier’
@NW-
Did you listen to the Lamont/Millar interview?
As polls suggest that most Scots will vote for or against independence based on economic issues.
I have all the polls for the last 15 years and don’t worry – that’s just not true. Hence 7 in 10 Scots willing to raise and spend all their own taxes. That’s why a recent poll on motivations said ‘a fairer society’ was the top ranker.
As Rev as posted about before, Scots want independence unless you call it that. It’s that leap from almost complete autonomy within the UK to the big bad world – hence FA and defense sticking points – that is holding things back.
As I said before, polls consistently show only a minority believe Scotland could be worse off if independent. You can understand why; it would be difficult to be worse off than the UK.
Currency is a waste of time for the pro-union campaign. Jeez many who support independence want a different currency as do many who might vote Yes. Saying ‘you’ll have to have a different currency’ could actually encourage a Yes; probably more so than encouraging a No.
Oh and I see the Sun has picked up on Labour’s falling lead too:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4891299/Labours-poll-lead-falls-to-just-7-per-cent.html
Yougov tend to have high figures for Labour so the fact they are now showing the falling lead in line with all the others must be very worrying for Labour. Good news if you support independence I guess though.
NW: When it comes down to it, the question of Scotland’s currency after independence will have far more impact on the referendum than any political donation scandal.
No, polling evidence suggest this is not a big factor. There are mixed views as I said; some want the pound, some a new currency, some the Euro…
You’d need a vast majority set on one option with this option impossible for it to be an issue. Honestly, there’s no need to fret here. Chin up!
Polls already showing the Taylor donation has had a huge impact; sometimes people are just waiting on something to confirm their views. This one has been bad for better together. Very bad as far as I can see. The full impact should play out over the coming months. Tie that in with No having fallen 5-7% since October, Yes up ~3% min, Labour looking less and less like 2015 winners, UKIP doing well in the English council elections and it’s game changing time.
“I have all the polls for the last 15 years and don’t worry – that’s just not true”
Clearly you don’t have this poll then:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-16024399
Only 21% of Scots would vote for independence if it meant them being £500 a year worse off, whereas 66% would vote for it if it meant them being £500 a year better off.
I do have that one. You seem to be misinterpreting it.
It simply agrees with all the others which show only a minority think Scotland would be worse off under independence. The majority think no worse or better and that’s all that is important.
Of course if you guarantee they’ll be £500 better off that would be very appealing. In contrast if you guarantee they’ll be £500 worse off that would be rather concerning.
I’m sorry, but I fail to see how it detracts from my point.
It’s fairness that is key. Being a bit richer would just be a bonus that I’d imagine few would knock back!
http://news.stv.tv/politics/220394-independence-majority-care-more-about-fairness-than-economy/
Independence: Majority care more about ‘fairness’ than economy
The survey of 1002 people in Scotland shows that around three-fifths (58%) agree that consideration of a fairer and more equal society is more important than whether they will be slightly richer or poorer.
Only ten per cent say that economics will be more important in reaching a decision before the referendum in September 2014.
Do you see what I was getting at in my posts. Honestly, the economic argument is not high priority unless somehow it was proven beyond doubt that Scotland’s economy would collapse overnight into some third-world mess which nobody believes would happen because it will not. As noted, the majority think things will be as good as financially or better. That’s all that’s important and hence the 7 in 10 support for FFA/Devo Max.
Oh and I don’t know if you saw but this morning’s Yougov again has a single figures lead for Labour! Going to be interesting when UK polling report add the past few days to their running averages. That Labour decline will be that bit more stark.
Aye Norsewarrior, chin up, laddie!
Also, you’re doing that thing again. You know what I mean.
anbrotherhood says:
@Major Bloodnok-
Aye.
Barter Together.
Oil for panda semen.
—————
It took me nearly 10 mins to stop laughing about that vision – well done brother in arms 😉
Then norsewobbler raised his head over the parapet again and screwed the thread …….
Manic Monday says:
22 April, 2013 at 11:06 pm
Treasury figures cannot be trusted
On 11 April the Public Accounts Committee report calls the whole UK government accounting system into disrepute….
The UK government, the DM readership shriek that the EU hasn’t published accounts for years. They conveniently forget that it’s because EU member state governments, such as the UK government, haven’t supplied the data.
You cannot make this up. George Orwell was soooo right in 1948. Doublespeak and now the Party (Labour) Truth Team (Ministry of Truth, anyone?) are taking over.
Run, Scotland, run! While you still can!
Norsewarrior,
You are a being a tad evasive on here. ianbrotherhood gave you a link to this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-22214419
You have still failed to either (apparently) view or comment on that.
Why is that?
Why are you so disinterested in the somewhat obvious point that Lamont is not playing with a straight bat?
I know you feel protected by the Rev Stu, and you don’t have to go back too far to find me arguing for your rights. I would argue rights for the devil himself.
But I am no longer convinced that you are discussing things on a basis that I recognise. Sure, make your case, but don’t dodge the hard stuff. Which you seem to me to be increasingly doing.
I bring this not to you Norsewarrior, but to the thousands of people that read here.
If you want to be credible, and I no longer know whether you do or you don’t, answer the question, goddammit!