What did we miss?
Posted on
January 06, 2014 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
It’s our own fault for reading a Brian Monteith column in the Scotsman, but:
Hang on – Alex Salmond did what now? As far as we know, if you’re on the Scottish electoral register you get a vote in the referendum. What happened? Which “tens of thousands of people” are we talking about here? Shouldn’t this have been in the news or something? We hate trying to catch up after the holidays.
Cameron is English, despite having a Scottish father?
I’ve got an English great-great-grandfather. Does that make me English too?
Neocon CLOWN.
This would be the same Dave Cameron who said the debate should be left to the Scots – then stuck his unwanted oar in anyway?
We need the Greens, SSP, Solidarity, LfI, Wealthy Nation etc. to speak up, if only to show that it isn’t just the SNP, and by inference the First Minister, who are behind the call for independence.
Old Brian writing while pished again. Making up things that don’t exist , when will the Scotman start to employ some sub editiors is the question that should be getting asked.
It makes no difference who speaks up if the media won’t report it. Did anyone hear the twat on the new (same old, same old) Radio Scotland phone – in this morning claiming the Scottish media is biased in favour of the SNP? I nearly rear – ended the truck I was following. Or the other moron likening Alex Salmon to Hitler (again),
Albert herring
can you play cricket
if you can and can take a 5-o gobbing and start greeting for your job to be safe then your english
if you dont know what cricket is then dont ask bloody stupid questions
I think the point is that Salmond had approximately nothing to do with the franchise for the referendum. He didn’t consciously decide anything about it.
He seems to be talking about people entitled to vote in Westminster elections in Scottish constituencies, but not in Local elections. Tens of thousands? Sorry, what?
“He seems to be talking about people entitled to vote in Westminster elections in Scottish constituencies, but not in Local elections.”
Who would be such a person? Where would they live?
Ah the quality of Scottish journalisum, it speaks for its-self.
And I expect the journalist in question got his figures from the “Iain Grey” school of economics.
Well Rev, Maybe I have been suffering from the cold caught on the holidays but I could swear you were here. I think the rest of us might have noticed if they had changed the rules on the electoral register and given their Unionist Principles they might have had the dead voting again far less allowing Alex to exclude people.
Brian needs to take more water with whatever he is having for his particular malady.
link to en.wikipedia.org
The anti-Salmond insults are certainly flying today, and no wonder.
The Scottish tories (and their Labour unionist puppets) do not like to see the great leader taunted and publicly humiliated by the evil fish man. They have barely come to terms with the white paper, and now a reminder that Cameron is afraid to debate with Salmond. Incoherent nonsense, gross insults, comparisons with Hitler and mentions of fairy stories (white paper) are the order of the day. The Brit Nats have lost it completely.
Funny, Eric Joyce highlighted possibly the same article(I don’t read the Scotsman,so not sure) yesterday. Alan Cumming apparently has bought a place in Edinburgh,yet ‘experts’ are insisting, it has to be your main place of residence.As Eric Joyce helpfully points out if that is the criteria for voting ( although he is unaware of the new secret rules), quite a few on the electoral roll but not actually living here will be excluded.
Had a look at the Scottish Referendum Franchise, given Royal Assent in November and can’t see Alex Salmond mentioned anywhere.
Bubbles
Heard all that and also most of these ‘NO’ callers thought AS was head of the YES campaign. Took a wee while to set that one straight. However some good calls from folk who were up to speed with the relevant facts and figures regarding the debate.
The surprising thing was that nearly all callers thought that AS would be defeat Cameron in the debate,if it takes place, the ‘NOs’ having little faith in the PM.
I hear NS is at St Andrews today ramping up the pressure again, looking forward to her remarks later on BBC Scotland.
Must be people who are not resident in the UK but who are nonetheless still on the electoral register? Or something?
He surely can’t be talking about the prison population can he?
@ bald eagle
Dunno about cricket, but Cameron’s eligible to play for Scotland AND he’s a total heid-the-baw. Get Strachan to get his scouts on the case.
Where is Darlings official residence?
But no, the people I mentioned ARE able to vote in indyref, I think..
Are they trying to claim that anyone born Scots but living elsewhere (and therefore also on the electoral roll elsewhere) should be on the Scottish Electoral role???
That Scots outwith Scotland should somehow be entitled to vote twice…
Once on the electoral roll where they live, and once on the Scottish electoral roll?
Doesnt make sense and can be ripped apart by anyone with an ounce of sense.
Aye, I think Morag is right – he’ll be talking about folk who are allowed to vote in Westminster elections for Scottish constituencies but not in Scottish elections due to them not actually living in Scotland.
If so, then Brian’s ire would be better pointed towards whoever decided who could and couldn’t vote in local elections, or whoever decided it should be the local elections register that decides who can vote in Scottish Elections. Neither of those folk was Alex Salmond, of course. Anyway, it’s quite correct that only people who live in Scotland should get to decide who rules Scotland. You don’t get to decide what happens to your old room when you move out of a house.
Och that Brian Monteith and his accuracy & honesty yet again.
Damned BBC where were they ? Why could they not deliver this truth about evil Salmond and his tricks ?
Brians a proudscot Tory and as such a trusted source for all things Scottish, surely we can all agree on that.
BBC/STV/SCOTSMAN/RECORD/HERALD will be closed down after independence as NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE. They will be licensed under comics, provided they can lift their game, and prove they have.
Adolph Salmond (fuehrer)
God alone knows what any journalist at the Scotsman is drinking these days. If there are any decent ones they’re probably up to their gills in malt whisky trying to work out where they’re going to work next after the paper finally admits defeat amid constantly falling circulation figures and just shuts up shop. I think the rabid unionist varieties are on the Green Fairy; using the original recipe.
I’ve always found Cameron’s excuse for avoiding debate to be exceptionally limp. If the referendum debate is really for Scots are we allowed to tell him to shut his face every time he brings it up? Name or parentage notwithstanding, he clearly doesn’t think he’s Scottish, so why does he comment on something that is, in his opinion, nothing to do with him?
That he won’t debate, as Prime Minister, with Alex Salmond on a subject upon which the future of the British state is at stake is purely indicative of the fact that he knows damn well he cannot win a straight head to head debate on the subject. He will only get involved directly when he has absolutely no choice in the matter. And then it’ll just be a footnote, because it will be far too late.
Latest wheeze of getting English ‘celebrities’ to come up here and say how much they love Scotland won’t work either. It’s a transparent attempt to say the least, and easily countered with ‘don’t worry, folks, you’ll still be allowed to visit.’
Is he talking about the army? Are troops not resident in Scotland excluded from the referendum in a way they’re not for other elections?
“Are troops not resident in Scotland excluded from the referendum in a way they’re not for other elections? “
No. According to the Herald’s special pull-out a few weeks ago, “Provision has also been made for some groups, military personnel for example, who live abroad.”
Who would be such a person? Where would they live?
On all copies of the electoral register there is a complicated code that tells you who can vote in what election. I could fish out a copy and scan or photograph it I suppose. There are some categories. I think people who have moved abroad within the past 20 years are one of them. Peers of the realm have some sort of special rule as well.
I can’t see how it could come to tens of thousands of people, although I suppose you’d have to add up all the constituencies and in the end I don’t know.
“I think people who have moved abroad within the past 20 years are one of them”
Monteith specifically said people who were on “the Scottish electoral register”. Surely if you’ve lived abroad for 18 years that’s not you?
Troops not resident in Scotland are NOT excluded from the referendum.
David Cameron refuses point blank to debate Alex Salmond preferring to spout his rhetroic from his bunker in Westminster. I’d say the reason for this is he has nothing to offer Scots of any value, to persuade them to vote no.
Thankfully, but belatedly the YES camp has cottoned on to the fact, that whats good for the goose is also good for the gander, meaning, instead of answering questions the SNP/YES camps are now asking questions.
Questions the BT and Tory/Lib Dem coalition can’t answer, questions that are of great importance to Scots, about whats on offer post independece if a no vote is returned, no whitepaper by the BT camps, only scaremongering and cuts await a no vote.
British citizens living abroad can vote in UK Parliamentary and European Parliamentary elections but cannot vote in local elections or elections to devolved bodies such as the Scottish Parliament, National Assembly for Wales or Greater London Authority.
British citizens living abroad for more than 15 years are not eligible to register to vote in UK elections.
“I will fight with every fibre of my body to keep Scotland in the union”.
Cameron is either a liar, or he has no fibre.
From the electoral commission:
“If an elector is registered to vote in two different electoral areas, they are eligible to vote in local elections for the two different local councils. However, it is an offence to vote twice in the same type of election e.g. voting twice in a general election. Such an offence could result in a fine of up to £5,000.”
So you an vote twice for local elections but not for a Westminster election but I’m not sure how this has affected tens of thousands in the referendum.
However Brian is talking about “views” not votes so is this his roundabout way of trying to blame Alex Salmond for the Labour/Tory/Lib-Dem alliance failure to think up a devo-something option for the ballot paper?
People living overseas who are registered for a postal vote won’t be able to vote in the referendum (I had all the forms filled out and everything…), I suppose that must be what he’s talking about.
I’m pretty sure it wasn’t Alex Salmond who didn’t want those people included, though. Up until the Edinburgh agreement the line from the FM was that anyone registered to vote in Scotland would be able to vote in the referendum. That changed after the Edinburgh agreement (it became vote would only be for those resident in Scotland), I reckon it must have been a compromise the Scottish Government made during the negotiations.
I retired from work, sold the house, bought a boat and left Scotland 10 years ago. We sail everywhere and don’t own a car or a house. We live on our boat, presently in the Caribbean. We don’t have a residence anywhere in the World. I’m told I can’t vote. I can vote in a general election because you have to be 15 years out of the country before you lose that right and am mightly upset that I can’t vote in the referendum. I am Scottish, from Glasgow and proud to be a Scot. I can trace my roots to 1650 in Edinburgh. I will return and I will vote but it’s going to cost me! Maybe that’s where some of your “lost thousands” have gone!
albert herring
cameron just does brownies
For Westminster elections:
“The length of time that a UK citizen can vote once they have moved abroad is limited by law to 15 years. Until 1985 no UK citizen living overseas could vote (other than Members of the Armed Forces or Crown Servants).
“The franchise is a matter for Government and Parliament and therefore any comments should be directed to the Ministry of Justice.”
link to aboutmyvote.co.uk
Again Eric Joyce links to paragraph 2 ( which is more than I can ) explaining the criteria.There is a proviso comes up at the top of the page,telling you changes already made and there ‘ are outstanding changes not yet made by the legislation’.
“No. According to the Herald’s special pull-out a few weeks ago,’Provision has also been made for some groups, military personnel for example, who live abroad.'”
Correct:
link to scotreferendum.com
Penman, Some military personnel outside of Scotland can have a postal vote or can nominate a proxy to vote in their previous Scottish constituency. I used that method when I first joined up. Unfortunately I am now registered to vote down in England and have no such right, although I am awaiting the official guidance from the MOD before I totally rule it out. My wife and I, who will be returning to Scotland in 2015, would love to add our YES votes, but I am happy if they do not make up some funny rules to allow us to vote, as most of the Scots I know in the military are Unionist to the core.
Speaking of franchises — and apologies for going very slightly off-topic here — there is a slight potential problem with regard to those who can take part in Scottish Parliament elections (and because of that also in the independence referendum), but who will lose that vote after a Yes victory, namely EU and Commonwealth citizens resident in Scotland.
Ten or twenty years ago, the SNP suggested granting Scottish citizenship to everybody living in Scotland on independence day, but the white paper states that only UK citizens will be Scottish citizens from day one, and that other people can only apply after independence, and only if they’ve lived here for at least ten years and are of good character.
This means that there’ll be a significant group of independence referendum voters who will effectively disenfranchise themselves by voting Yes in September. (Some of them will just apply for Scottish citizenship afterwards, but a large group won’t qualify or will have their own reasons not to do so.)
I strongly believe we can maximise the foreign-born Yes vote by granting Scottish citizenship to everybody who can take part in the independence referendum.
British citizens living abroad for more than 15 years are not eligible to register to vote in UK elections.
I thought it was 20 years. Did they reduce it?
Under existing arrangements, personnel can apply for a service vote in the referendum if they can register at an address in Scotland. This could be where they would be living if they were not in the armed forces or where they last resided before taking up their post.
Article here last year. Some comments worth a read. Seems like MOD have polled servicemen on whether they would join a Scottish army.
link to archive.is
Monteith specifically said people who were on “the Scottish electoral register”. Surely if you’ve lived abroad for 18 years that’s not you?
Scott says 15 years. The franchise for the referendum has been decided to be the franchise for the Holyrood elections, which is essentially the same as for local government elections. There are people “on the electoral register” who aren’t entitled to vote in such elections.
Mostly I think it’s the ex-pats, although arrangements have been made to include serving troops. I think there are two or three names in each ward with no addresses attached to them, and I think these are the ex-pats, on the register in the ward where they last lived.
I have trouble believing these names add up to “tens of thousands”, or that Alex Salmond personally went out of his way to ensure that they couldn’t vote.
I think Cameron is more afraid of the questions which would be asked of him.
In the event of a No vote:
“Will any or all of the existing powers of the SP be returned to Westminster or elsewhere?”
“Will the Scottish NHS be amalgamated with the NHS?”
“Will the electoral system in Scotland be reformed?”
“Will Scotland be allowed to remain part of the EU if it votes Yes and England votes No?”
“Can you guarantee pension provision will be maintained in the UK?”
If Scotland votes Yes:
“Will the rUK enter into a common currency zone with Scotland?”
“Why will you not ask the EU to clarify Scotland and the rUK’s on going membership status?”
“Will the rUK oppose Scotland’s membership of the EU? NATO?”
“Will there be unrestricted travel, as with the RoI? or will you put up Border restrictions?”
“Will the rUK no longer consider Scotland for defence contracts?”
etc.
“Doug Daniel says:
Anyway, it’s quite correct that only people who live in Scotland should get to decide who rules Scotland.”
Which is the whole f’n point, or have I missed somthing?
I did try and remove the cite tags honest.
The referendum franchise
8.1 Both the UK and Scottish Government consultation papers propose using the existing franchise for Scottish Parliament and local government elections as the basis for determining eligibility to vote in the referendum …
Entitlement to vote [pages 16-17]
In considering the two existing franchises, it is the UK Government’s view that the devolved legislature and local government franchise would be most suitable. This is of course the franchise that elected the current Scottish Parliament and it was also used in 1997 for the referendum that established the Scottish Parliament. For this reason we have included provision in the draft section 30 Order (Annex A) to achieve this.
O/T I do apologise.
Never mind the Oedipus Complex it seem Torcuil Crichton of the Daily (drivel) Record has the Eck Complex. Any chance the Trinity Mirror Group journalist gets to berate or scold Alex Salmond, is pounced upon with untold glee.
Crichton lashes the FM, over his expenses, thanking his beloved Labour party for introducing the FOI Act. Crichton forgets his beloved Labour also introduced the PFI instrument which will cost us and our children billions of pounds over the long run.
Crichton also makes no mention of the 6 houses in total that Labour built, when last they held power, a serious fact that goes along way to causing stress to Scots due to the bedroom tax, with no suitable properties to move too available.
it seems Crichtons, fighting a losing battle, with the likes of ex-esteemed Labour giants such as John Mulvey, former leader of Lothian Regional Council, and ex-Glasgow and Labour Lord Provost Alex Mosson, pitching their tents firmly in the YES camp.
“I thought it was 20 years. Did they reduce it?”
Yes. At one point it was 5 years but its currently back up to 15.
Irrellevant for local elections however.
“proud to be a Scot. “
DING DING DING DING!
REV, Who would be such a person ?. Rev Stuart Campbell . Where would he live ?. In Bath.
An a hope its no in the BATH, it makes you auld n wrinklie, awe thats us, ageing faster, you must be trying tae catch up Rev.
O/T, Anither threatin letter from Bbc licence fee £145.50 in a red circle, is that a no entry area. on 5 th.
The arrangements for who gets a vote are perfectly reasonable and sensible, that the papers think it’s worth dragging up is telling.
On Cameron, I think it’s absolutely predictable and sensible on his part not to debate AS. Without spending all his time on the subject for the next three months he couldn’t possibly be well informed enough. It would be like me trying to argue about football with, well, anybody who knows anything about football.
Thanks for all the replies folks. Informative as ever!
So the question is still as baffling…
Because I am simple I see things in simple terms. David Cameron is campaigning in the referendum issue so must be prepared to debate the issue. Simple is it not?
Who is this “David Cameron” guy anyway though, Brian surely has a point there.
I think Cameron is more afraid of the questions which would be asked of him.
definately,but the better thegither campaign should surely be pushing forward their debater of the year to win over the scottish people with her sharp intellect and razor wit, just think what she would do to nicola sturgeon in a live debate.
The sheer practical difficulties of giving everyone who technically might be able to claim Scottish citizenship in a future independent Scotland but who currently reside outside Scotland a vote in the referendum make it a non-sequitur.
However, there is also a very good democratic argument for it, it goes like this:-
One thing, I think it is safe to say, which both sides agree on (maybe the only one) is the paramount question of the economy. Whoever wins that argument will almost certainly win the referendum. Just look at the shift in results in polls which ask the voter to consider being £500 richer or £500 pounds poorer.
So the name of the game for the No side is to convince the electorate that Scotland is subsidised by England+ and will therefore be worse off with independence. OTOH, the goal for the Yes campaign is to convince them that it is Scotland which is subsidising England+ and that therefore Scots will be better off on average.
So now to the democratic bit. For the sake of argument, say the Yes campaign succeed in making their economic case. That would most likely win the referendum for them even if they only showed that Scotland would benefit slightly (£500 isn’t a lot of dosh). But, and here is the democratic crunch, that very same argument would work in exactly the opposite direction for those Scots residing in England+ since they would then be notionally convinced that they would economically disadvantaged by independence.
It isn’t outside the bounds of possibility in that scenario that Scots residing in Scotland could marginally vote yes, but those in England+ vote no in sufficient numbers to cause an overall No result.
A scenario where, potentially, the Yes campaign could win the argument in Scotland but where that very same ‘success’ could lose the referendum by its self-interest effect on England+ resident Scots.
Not democratically sound is it?
Re the Cameron debate or not, the SNP have published the part of their Panelbase poll which asked whether Cameron should or should not debate;
link to snp.org
Was it not Maggie Thatcher who changed the Ex Pat,s votes to secure a second term.
“the better thegither campaign should surely be pushing forward their debater of the year to win over the scottish people with her sharp intellect and razor wit, just think what she would do to nicola sturgeon in a live debate.”
Nicola :”Why are you refusing to debate.”
Jola:”Well, err, um, I think we should debate, but um, there needs to be a debate about it first.”
That’s about it I think.
It seems George Osbornes caesaresque hair do has gone to his head, he claims that £25 billion quid needs to be cut from the public purse, a least £12 billion of this, from the welfare state.
Get ready for more foodbanks, more poverty, more misery and far more despair, if a no vote is returned in September. Osborne has intimated these humungus cuts will be implimented if the Tories are returned to power, in 2015.
Labour have also stated vast cuts will be pushed through if they gain the upperhand at Westminster in 2015, a YES vote is the only way to help Scots not hinder them.
link to bbc.co.uk
Nicola debateing Jo lo, noo you,s are taking the mince, it wuld be embarressing fur Nicola, you,s dont want tae see the D F M of S, pishin herself on live televion day you,s, either that or she his tae stand in a big bucket , noo thats no on.
This DR poll currently 80/20 Y/N.
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
But, and here is the democratic crunch, that very same argument would work in exactly the opposite direction for those Scots residing in England+ since they would then be notionally convinced that they would economically disadvantaged by independence.
Hmm I’m not sure about that. If an expat Scot takes on board and agrees with information telling him that Scotland will be financially better off, would he really vote against his home country’s interests for the sake of a few (undefinable) quid from his own pocket?
I would have thought that the expat vote would be considerably stronger for independence than the average within Scotland anyway?
How about giving the vote to visiting Russian navel personnel ?, or at the very least offer them permanent safe shelter off the Cromerty coast, might as well as they know that they can, at any time they want to, moor up and wait it out watching the Royal Navy depart Portsmouth, and track them all the way up the North See, GOD, how they must laugh!!.
The recruitment of “English” celebrities to “love-bomb” the recalcitrant Jocks blows the “it’s Scots Vs Scots” argument clear out of the water.
Osbourne,s austery cuts £25 bil, £ 12 bil , from welfare, no guarantee on pesioner,s heating allowance, back to means testing. I WANT TO GET OUT OF THIS PLACE IF ITS THE LAST THING I EVER DO, allwere going to be left with are MEMORIES ,an no nice wan,s at that.
@ Ian Brotherhood. I”ve just voted. My vote seems to have taken it to 82% Yes.
@ Morag
I think there are two or three names in each ward with no addresses attached to them, and I think these are the ex-pats, on the register in the ward where they last lived.
Names without addresses on electoral roll are likely to people without fixed abode. This is certainly the case in regard to my personal entry; my name is listed without an address.
I would have thought that the expat vote would be considerably stronger for independence than the average within Scotland anyway?
It may very well depend upon where they are. Mid December I went off to London for the Christmas Curry with the guys. 6 Dundonians, 1 from Stenhousemuir and my son, a Scottish Londoner who studied History and Economics at Glasgow. Only I and 1 other Dundonian are based north of the border. Most are accountants.
My son and I are the only ones convinced to vote Yes. We had the ‘Proud Scottery’, and the hope that the vote would be No, but what I found amongst them was largely ignorance of the facts, to the extent that one of them did not even believe that Scotland could survive on its own. And he is the most successful of these guys; studied Economics at Heriot Watt then retrained as an accountant and probably has 8 or 10 non-exec directorships, or whatever they’re called.
So I think it’s a function of the pap they read and hear, and that will be pretty poor in England. Probably stand a better chance of getting a clear idea of your standing and potential as a nation in any other country in the World.
Ian Brotherhood says:
This DR poll currently 80/20 Y/N.
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
I”ve just voted. My vote seems to have taken it to 82% Yes.
That will soon change when 479.327 Better togethers all suddenly and surprisingly decide to vote no in the space of ten minutes… 🙂
New years greetings by the way to all our pals at the NSA and GCHQ.
OT- sorry
but I think is very worthy of being spread out further. It’s hard hitting and DKs need to be shown it as well. Top article.
link to derekbateman1.wordpress.com
“Stop Right There”
O/T
But my take on love bombing
link to norrie.wordpress.com
I may have missed something in a post-hogmany haze; but aren’t we all British? Isn’t it Britain’s future which is at stake because of “Salmond’s vanity project” as it’s been described? Isn’t Cameron Britain’s Prime Minister, who ensured us all he would fight for Britain with “every fibre” of his being?
Questions, questions. Time for answers.
“Hmm I’m not sure about that. If an expat Scot takes on board and agrees with information telling him that Scotland will be financially better off, would he really vote against his home country’s interests for the sake of a few (undefinable) quid from his own pocket?”
Would love to think you are right, I’m sure most of us here would take that attitude, but unfortunately a very large contingent of the electorate are not far persuaded on independence in either direction and it, apparently, takes very little financial inducement to create a significant swing in support for that large central swathe.
And it is, even more unfortunately, that large fickle contingent which is going to decide the referendum.
O/T
I attended Nicola Sturgeon’s address in St Andrews today, and while I didn’t really hear anything I hadn’t heard before either from Nicola or the questioners in the audience, it was still interesting for what it showed about how Yes would like the debate to go in the near future.
She pushed hard about the positive effects for women – noting not only the proposed childcare initiative to help more (predominately) women back into the workforce, but also proposals to try to increase the number of women represented at board level in Scottish firms. And she also talked at length about the need for the No campaign to spell out the effects of a no vote.
I can see both of these being issues continually highlighted by Yes over the next few months.
Horacesaysyes
Big Brian T informs us on the BBC web site that they had to move her into a bigger hall today because of the interest created, larger audience than expected. All good stuff.
Regardless of what the innate level of support might be for independence from Scots living in England+ as compared to those in Scotland i.e. whether it is greater or less, my point was that the very act of winning the economic argument by the Yes campaign would have the effect of nudging support in Scotland towards yes and support in England towards No.
Deliberately inserting a tranche into the electorate who would be moved in a diametrically opposed direction by the main argument of concern to those living in Scotland cannot be truly democratic, IMO, when residency only is what would produce the difference.
Clumsily put I know.
ronnie anderson says:
REV, Who would be such a person ?. Rev Stuart Campbell . Where would he live ?. In Bath.
Uhhh, nope. Stuart Campbell is on the Bath electoral register, not the Scottish one.
Has Westminster ever considered giving the Republic of Ireland population a vote to decide Northern Ireland’s future?
@naebd
… I thocht that the Rev wis ‘making arrangements’… 😉
I refute the argument that Scots living in England are more predisposed to the union and a Yes vote would harden that stance.
In my opinion a large number of Scots are south of the border because they have to, not because they want to. And by have to I mean “to get a job”. Given the choice they would prefer to stay/ move home.
Therefore, improved economic circumstances in Scotland would be seen as a good thing as it would improve the chances of moving back home.
For example, my cousin graduated from university in Scotland and got a place on a graduate scheme with a large high street retailer. She had to move to the London area for this post. After getting a couple of years experience under her belt she looked for jobs back home and was eventually successful. I am sure her story is far from unique.
“I refute the argument that Scots living in England are more predisposed to the union”
Me too!
@Rev Stu
Funny that!
@Call Me Dave
Yeah – it was moved to the Buchanan Lecture Theatre, which holds 360 and it was standing room only. The uni only re-opened today, and I’d guess a lot of folk (like myself) were only able to say they could make it this morning. I was actually surprised when my boss asked if I wanted to go!
I believe that you are entitled to vote in Westminster elections up to 14 years after leaving the UK.
However, you are immediately unable to vote in Scottish Parliament elections and of course the Independence referendum.
These “rules” were set long before Alex Salmond came to office and I would actually propose that these “rules” are another example of the second class status of Scots within the UK.
Don’t let him vote. He will just vote No.
Only Yes voters should get to vote. Yes.
@ronnie anderson
I’ve a pile of over 30 threatening letters from TV licensing from the last three years. They send about one a month. I’ve got the complete set many times over. The amount of times I’ve been told what to expect in court etc. lol
The more of us that stop paying, the better. I got rid of the telly mind, and honestly don’t miss it.
““I refute the argument that Scots living in England are more predisposed to the union”
Me too!”
As I said, I don’t dispute that or refute that as I simply do not know. My point was only in regard to the contra effect of the economic argument in terms of influencing preference amongst the soft vote either way. That is specifically residence aligned, by definition, and is a significant motivation, if we believe the polls.
It only applies to the large swathe of marginal support and not to you rev (or me and I suspect, nearly everyone who visits here, if I/we lived in England).
When folk in England, have the information, they realise why people in Scotland have campaign so long. Many begin to realise people in Scotland are not subsidised, but their revenues ar controlled by Wedtminster etc. Many of them say go for it. They are totally understanding. Westminister and the Bankers are universally despised, by many in both Scotland and England. The majority of English folk are really fine and supporting. Just some vote Tory. Others would like to get away from the harshness of Westminster policies, especially left wing supporters.
Even Tories living south are straightforward. Those who understand Scotland’s position in not having fiscal control etc are not bothered if Scotland gains Independence. They don’t know what the fuss is about, and believe things can be worked out. All the English folk spoken to around here are alright about Scotland becoming Independent. Many foreign folk living here and away, can’t understand why Scotland isn’t Independant. They don’t understand the fiscal arrangements, and the reserved powers not being devolved completely. They think it’s strange.
When folk in England, have the information, they realise why people in Scotland have campaign so long. Many begin to realise people in Scotland are not subsidised, but their revenues ar controlled by Wedtminster etc. Many of them say go for it. They are totally understanding. Westminister and the Bankers are universally despised, by many in both Scotland and England. The majority of English folk are really fine and supporting. Just some vote Tory. Others would like to get away from the harshness of Westminster policies, especially left wing supporters.
Even Tories living south are straightforward. Those who understand Scotland’s position in not having fiscal control etc are not bothered if Scotland gains Independence. They don’t know what the fuss is about, and believe things can be worked out. All the English folk spoken to around here are alright about Scotland becoming Independent. Many foreign folk living here and away, can’t understand why Scotland isn’t Independant. They don’t understand the fiscal arrangements, and the reserved powers not being devolved completely. They think it’s strange.
Chic McGregor you hit the nail on the head, without David Cameron debating who the F^*k is going to answer all the questions we need answers to in the event of a no vote. What a stitch up they are trying to pull. They must be exposed. Doubt the BBC will push it much but it`s up to ourselves to the job for them I suppose. This is the year!
Scots living in England fall into two camps, those who are as misinformed as much as most of the English folk are and those who maybe know a little or a lot and are subjected to at every opportunity the misinformation and know all too well what a f^*ked up relationship this is we currently have.
Under the Terms of the Act of Union 1707, the whole of the UK should have had a vote. It would have definite Independence.
Brian Monteith is a loony – there is nothing that leaves his well paid mouth that isn’t some BritNat tosh. He’s a BritNat Rat-Pack loony – nuff said.
“Scots living in England fall into two camps, those who are as misinformed as much as most of the English folk are and those who maybe know a little or a lot and are subjected to at every opportunity the misinformation and know all too well what a f^*ked up relationship this is we currently have.”
There could indeed, be far greater polarisation within the ex-pat community in England than that which exists in Scotland. Again, I have no knowledge of that distribution and I doubt whether it is even available, beyond the anectdotal. In Scotland, where there is some data, it is basically a normal distribution with some evidence of polarisation but with a large swathe of the voters in the soft central area.
If greater polarisation for ex-pats down South is true, then it would lessen the impact of the effect I alluded to, but whether it would do so to the point where it stopped making a nonsense, in democracy terms, of the referendum campaign must remain a matter of speculation.
Any significant number who could be induced to a no vote specifically by a yes campaign winning the key argument, is democratically unsound. (Where ‘significant’ means, I guess, potentially enough to reverse an otherwise Yes result.)