Token offerings
Posted on
May 16, 2020 by
Chris Cairns
The world's most-read Scottish politics website
-
About
Wings Over Scotland is a (mainly) Scottish political media digest and monitor, which also offers its own commentary. (More)
-
Recent Posts
- 11-23
- 11-22
- 11-18
- 11-17
- 11-12
- 11-09
- 11-06
- 11-04
- 11-03
- 11-02
- 10-29
- 10-26
- 10-26
- 10-21
- 10-19
- 10-16
- 10-13
- 10-11
- 10-10
- 10-07
A tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
Another excellent cartoon.
Kind of sums up the heartless window-dressing of a government run by England’s Prime Minister, Boris ‘the butcher’ De pfeffle Johnson.
On every level Johnson and his cabal of sociopathic tory misfits have feiled. Even if you look at this from a hard-nosed economic point of view, their current strategy makes no sense. They have ended lockdown too soon and failed to start contact tracing in any meaningful way. The infection will spike even higher next time, in a few weeks, with further economic damage. Such folly, such utter, utter folly.
They see countries like Germany starting to run properly again, and want to do the same. The difference is, however, Germany is run by a competent leader, who enacted ALL the right strategies early, thereby reducing deaths and spread.
So now, as Scotland is still shackled to a wholly dysfunctional England, we too are getting dragged into the mire, with these pieces of heartless Tory murderous filth.
If ever Scotland needed independence, away from these Tory clowns, it is now. Kindly get on with it, Nicola.
Nice one Chris.
But a sad reflection of what we have come to expect from Westminster, same old same old.
Just brilliant Chris, all my thoughts on this captured in one cartoon. You are really very good at this, perhaps you should take this up as a profession? hehehe
Spot on Chris-again.
The Tory excuses in the van include:
We are working very hard and This is unprecedented?
Iran and Germany have much larger populations than the UK
But they have lost 7,000 and 8,000 lives respectedly.
Bojoland on 34,000 Deaths and we know the true English figures are being stifled.
Why then with the Tories ruling God’s elite and supreme nation are they performing so
Pathetically when there is clapping and rainbows abound?
Oh Chris, what an excellent cartoon. How very, very sad that it has come to this.
No one can trust a word the tories tell us, and many people have died, it makes you weep.
The sooner independence comes the better.
But note it could apply just as much here in Scotland. The SNP ignored the need for PPE in the care homes and general care sector just like Westminster did.
It wasn’t just the careless, arrogant HC One management importing workers from the SE in contravention of lockdown who caused the care home deaths in Skye, it was also their lack of PPE.
We cannot aim a brickbat at Westminster whilst ignoring the beam in our own eyes. Yes, the Scottish Govt has done better than Westminster, but a lot of it has been warm words and empty promises too.
All over the UK the elderly and vulnerable in the care homes were forgotten about. We strongly suspect Westminster did it deliberately. Holyrood maybe by slavishly following too closely but they should have acted once the need was known.
Succinct and totally accurate. How very very sad.
Chris , you have deal talent.
Muscleguy @8:26.
Or indeed NS with a bunch of Indy mandates
Muscleguy you do know that it is the heath care owners who have the duty to ensure their staff are protected and updated clear guidance was issued by Scots Gov in mid March including how to get PPE equipment.
Despite Tory claims deaths in care homes which are rigoursly inspected in Scotland were much less than in England.
Also great letter in Herald by Ken Liddell debunking Unionist politically motivated claims of an cover up over first Coronavirus case at Nike conference
@ Muscleguy.
On balance, your comment is a bit unfair.
I posted a link to the comparisons made by a London DR between the Scottish and English guidelines issued to Care homes, worth a read.
Excellent cartoon, is that Matt Handcock playing delivery man.
[…] Wings Over Scotland Token offerings Read the full article:: Wings Over Scotland Token […]
The Scottish Government should take over the running of all care homes, get rid of the greedy leeches who want to make big profits from old, frail and sick people our mothers, fathers, grandparents people who are coming to the end of their lives, the vast majority of people would willingly pay a bit more tax to see our elderly being cared for, and the staff do a great job and need more money for their good hard work, Scotland have to get with other European countries who do look after their elderly, Scotland will never do it shackled to England.
Rambling Pennington again on BBC Scotland now on about R numbers doesn’t repeat his rubbish about R number in care homes being 10.
Also Joanna Blythman in Herald making good point regarding supermarkets selling cheap Irish beef rather than good Scots beef when they are getting huge rates freeze from Scottish government
@Rm, where are they to get the monies to do so? and if they do take over without due cause the managers will sue. ScotGov could better resource the Care Inspectorate to ensure much better management and rot out the worst. But again, using what resources?
There are countless needs going begging for want of funds in Scotland due in large part to Westminster Austerity. But equally the SNP have made a political decision not to take up powers which they have to pursue tax evaders in Scotland to the better of our coffers. But they fear it looking like things are too good under Devolution so they decided not to. Such are often the tactics in wresting freedom. It is not always fine speeches and chapping doors.
There’s time enough to ensure all taxes due are paid in Scotland as a rebuke to Whitehall. But that time is after Independence.
I think we should throw out the Byzantine UK tax system and simplify and start again. Back in NZ the govt did that and it worked. Small nimble countries can do such things. A simpler, clearer tax regime could attract companies since it reduces compliance costs. The tax accountants won’t like it but. There are always losers in every move.
O/t I see a 3rd round of Brexit talks by video conference had ended on Friday with no progress (a hard Brexit more and more on the cards). Why wasn’t all this put on the back burner till after the covid 19 crisis is over. They are quick enough to tell Scotland to shut up that now is not the time for politics, while they use subterfuge to push their fascist agenda through. Wake up Scotland ffs and get shot of these lying cheating Westminster barstewards.
Cartoons are meant to make a point but this one takes no account of the fact that health is devolved to Scotland. Very poor effort lacking in accuracy.
Even Sturgeon takes responsibility for health.
Why else does she stand on a platform day after day proclaiming continued house arrest for Scottish citizens who meekly go along with her?
Regarding care homes, yes, most are privately owned but are strictly regulated by the SG.
In the case of world pandemics it is hardly the fault of private owners but rather the SG should have been in there as soon as the virus struck.
Wonderful cartoon – but have we learned nothing – if a tories lips are moving they are lying. What I fail to understand is why indy polls don’t show 80% for indy.
Excellent as always Chris.
Muscleguy ,my daughter has recently been deployed to infection control within the care sector from a frontline hospital.What she and others have found is that good practice was patchy to say the least.The Scottish government did respond weeks ago with guidelines which weren’t adopted across the whole sector but have now issued a more “robust” set which are being implemented at pace.Mistakes have been made ,no doubt about it but they are fighting back.The truth will out here in Scotland.England will have to deal with their own particular fallout.
Pete is correct and the Scottish Government should have ignored the Tory howling and closed the Border. That would at least have stopped the wealthy care home profiteers importing infected personnel from Kent to Skye. Skye had been totally virus free!
I’d like to gently remind our contributors that up and until the outbreak of this virus many companies, large and small, were set-up to take advantage (make a profit) of the need to provide care for the elderly, especially those with ‘special needs’ e.g. dementia in all its many forms, and who had through no fault of their own had become too difficult for their relatives to handle/care for at home by their own family members. Family members who could well be trying to raise young families of their own, a task that sadly usually falls to the females in the family.
When it comes to the running of these private homes these are being run in the expectation of ‘profit’ and so they work on the basis of what is the cheapest and minimal PPE that they can get away with. However, it is not all criticism but I do have a degree of sympathy when they come up against Health Service England who ordered English manufacturing companies not to fulfill orders going to Scotland or the suppliers of PPE who have increased their prices by up to 400% or more and Westminster has done nothing to stop this blatant profiteering. I’ll let you make up your own minds who in the Tory Party stand to gain!!!
Finally, apart from the Government Regulator, the Government has no responsibility apart from ensuring rules are being followed for as we know from the past the Government has been quite forcibly told to ‘butt-out’ of ‘private business’.
Mike d says:
16 May, 2020 at 9:21 am
O/t I see a 3rd round of Brexit talks by video conference had ended on Friday with no progress (a hard Brexit more and more on the cards). Why wasn’t all this put on the back burner till after the covid 19 crisis is over. They are quick enough to tell Scotland to shut up that now is not the time for politics, while they use subterfuge to push their fascist agenda through. Wake up Scotland ffs and get shot of these lying cheating Westminster barstewards….
This. Exactly this… except don’t just blame Westminster.
If Scotland’s Government had any balls whatsoever, it would right now, be launching deafening salvo after deafening salvo of catch-all ultimatums that the Nation of Scotland has a Sovereign Constitutional backstop, and that if Brexit is steamrollered through without Scotland’s consent, consent IT DOES NOT HAVE, then Scotland will deem such unilateral action to constitute the formal end on the UK Union.
One letter would do it. A single fkg letter! Jesus H, I could break in to Bute House in the middle of the night and type the fkg thing myself… because you can bet Sturgeon’s SNP won’t do it!
The chances of the gutless, shapeless SNP doing anything like that are laughable…. with the possible exception of Joanna Cherry. But even Joanna Cherry’s window of opportunity is closing fast.
Europe, and Brexit, is Scotland’s open goal, our golden ticket to Independence, but it’s five to midnight and the SNP are minutes away from blowing it. If we don’t act now, and somehow kick the useless f*!#ers of SNP into doing “something”, then as far as I’m concerned the SNP can burn in Hell for all time, like the other Parcel of Rogues who sold out Scotland in 1707.
Let’s not talk about that however. Let’s instead vex ourselves about the sad and tawdry world of Declan Whateverthefuckhisnameis.
Spot on Chris, one wonders how many lives could’ve been saved with the proper PPE in place.
Meanwhile for the billion time the BBC treats Scots with contempt.
link to thenational.scot
……and then there is the Truth and Facts.
The Flu versus COVID debate is irrelevant. All that matters is the CONSEQUENCES.
Here is an uncomfortable truth;
3 months in 2015 – 44,000 excess deaths due to Flu
3 months in 2020 – 34,000 excess deaths due to COVID
Focus on Consequences – not pseudo science from politicians and bullshit baffling brains from the hysterical MSM.
Dear @Pete – where does it say in the cartoon that it’s aimed at the UK Gov, not the Scottish one?
The Newsnight programme became a stomping ground for unionists to rail over Scotland diverging with England on the lockdown, instead of focusing on what really mattered.
Looks like we the colonials,have pissed off our overlords by taking a different stance on the lockdown.
link to thenational.scot
Most care homes are private businesses run for profit. They are NOT nationalised like the NHS. The relationship with between the care industry and government is not the same as it has with the NHS.
Yes, in a time of dire national emergency governments do have a responsibility for the welfare of all citizens. If could be argued that central government stockpiling of emergency equipment for inevitable pandemics should include provision for care homes. However, stockpiling for private businesses? That’s a whole different ball game.
Perhaps health and social care, cradle to grave, should all be under the national umbrella as part of a widened NHS. Nae chance this side of Indy.
Meanwhile the (WHO) World Health Organisation, has praised Scotland’s position on remaining in lockdown. (WHO) Special envoy Dr David Nabarro, said he was impressed by Scotland approach to staying in lockdown to save lives, Nabarro added that some countries are torn between restarting their economies and saving lives.
Perverse saying this, but the delivery bloke forgot the coffins.
Because that is exactly what these (pick your own expletive)s have done.
republicofscotland 10:16
WHO – yeah, we should listen to those guys shouldn’t we……the pandemic that never was.
Nasty virus? yes, killing people? without a doubt, is this sad? of course it is.
Is it any worse than flu though…..not on current data. And certainly not worth selling out our democracy to the far left or the far right (quite frankly on L versus R – take your pick)
The link description says it all, what cold hearted b#stard.
link to thenational.scot
…… and who is to say the recipient is in England, N. ireland, Wales or Scotland. Like so many Pete makes his mind up before seeing the evidence. Good cartoon again Chris.
Tories don’t do joined-up thinking, they only now how to project cultural prejudice and self-regard. They are also opposed to the principles of universality and public health ethics. Anyway, four decades of neo-liberalism have fragmented public services and hollowed-out out resilience in Brexitania.
Long-live the profit incentive of private healthcare provision.
Joining up public services around local, citizen needs
Perennial challenges and insights on how to tackle them
link to instituteforgovernment.org.uk
Chris Cairns @ 10:10
Prepared to be corrected here, but I am pretty sure the ‘clapping pish’ was MSM driven – and they don’t take their orders from Holyrood.
… before anyone says about the care home name. There’s a house up the road from me in Brum called Hameldaeme!
Ahundrethidiot.
Any action that could save lives should be welcome, as for Covid-19 it appears to be more contagious than the flu, and to be frank from what I’ve read we really don’t know enough about the virus yet, so yes I think the (WHO) praising those that stay in lockdown should not be frowned upon. This virus isn’t finished with us yet.
ahundredthidiot says:
Yes, and a consequence of Covid-19 is that its high infection and fatality rates necessitated an almost complete lock down.
In mid March the infection rates were doubling every 4 days or so. There were Tories, still are, who would have pushed for a ‘let it rip’ strategy. Imagine what the consequences would have been if they had carried out that policy. UK with 40million sick and a >2% fatality rate because there would be no healthcare left for most of the seriously ill.
Even if lock down had delayed until a week later, deaths would have been six figure by now and the NHS would have been overwhelmed.
We live with the consequences of still being in Tory UK.
Hi Chris, hope you are bearing up.
Thanks again for your bullseye cartoons! Trust you’re surviving and not miserable like me swinging from extremes, hope and despair. Penned a long-form essay this week. Tried hard to lift spirits. Not sure if I succeeded.
You essential weekend reading:
‘The Rise of the SNP’: link to wp.me
republicofscotland
Lockdown should be frowned upon if it is irrelevant and does more damage than good – like it is proving to be in Sweden (although they have put sensible mitigation in place based on a grown up relationship with their citizens) and when the only spikes being seen in deaths right now are drug related and suicides.
My flabber remains to be gasted at the amount of ‘independent thinkers’ on here who decry the MSM on all things Scottish yet fall hook, line and sinker with this virus.
Breeks 10.04am. Am in complete agreement.
galamcennalath
Could you look into your crystal ball and provide the lotto numbers for tonight please?
Tragically, I have always believed Osmium was the densest material found by science.
Then along came Pete and Hundredtheidiot !!!. Oh well.
Bob Mack
sorry Bob, I missed the point of your argument there…….
The coronavirus pandemic has gone full circle as the Chinese city of Wuhan,
ground zero of the viral conflagration that ravaged the global community,
has high geared massive testing after a new cluster of infections were reported there since it was released from lockdown on April 8.
Bob Mack
‘I have always believed Osmium to be…..’
no Bob, you believed that about five minutes ago when you googled it
please correct me with your deep knowledge and professional undertaking of all things metallurgical?
@Ahundredtheidiot,
Yes, I thought you might!!!
@Ahundredtheidiot,
Have you been spending lockdown playing keepy uppy header practice with a bowling ball?
Sobering cartoon….. very true.
It has not gone as well as it might have in spite of all the good intentions.
A heavy burden on the NHS staff and carers from the beginning, the end still not in sight either. 🙁
PS:
Streaming link for those inclined.
Only fitba for the moment other sports soon will follow in the days to come!
German League choose your match KO soon. (1hr time difference)
link to hesgoal.com
Here’s one for all the magical thinkers out there, and all the right-wing arseholes.
WHO officials warn against ‘magical thinking’ regarding lockdowns – COVID-19 briefing
link to weforum.org
@ Pete
Your times have gone, Pete – take a look around yourself. Don’t expect your MSM to point this out to you but when a government is openly defied in its prescription by the governed: the game is over. It’s all down-hill for you and your ideological brethren, from here-on-in, Pete.Which is no more than you’ve deserved for a very, long time.
Chis Cairns
You are correct and I apologise.
However, you know the audience you are directing it to, and, as always, they come blasting out full throttle against Westminster.
Maybe if you had put a saltire on the deliveries it would have been more accurate.
Back in 68/69 we had a flu pandemic which killed 80000 in the UK(equivalent to 100000 today)
We did not put millions out of work and have people lining up outside supermarkets like zombies in some 1984 scenario with Big Mother Sturgeon watching over us.
I have many issues with Johnston but, at least he’s trying to get us back on track albeit with so many against him.
@Ahundredtheidiot,
Wish they had locked down the internet connection to ur hoose ya rocket!
Then we’d not have to read ur keech.
Grouse Beater
That’s a superb read, thanks. I can see the value of maintaining the SNP in government, despite the problems at the top. In fact, now, armed with a little history, cleaning out the rot becomes more urgent than ever before the whole enterprise collapses.
If only the list party naysayers could be so eloquent we might actually have a common basis on which to take action.
@Grouse Beater,
Just read your article. Absolutely on the money.( Dofs hat).
@ Pete.
‘at least he’s trying to get us back on track’
Absolutely spot on there Pete.
London Funeral Directors have been told to prepare for a new wave in the autumn and the 30,000 temporary mortuary spaces have been increased too 100,000.
It’s just I don’t think his back on track is the same as yours.
For capitalism to succeed it is necessary to sacrifice human life.
a hundredthidiot@10.08am
re the TRUTH and FACTS – there is always background to the truth and facts and in this case I will only say this:
I don’t remember there being an 8 week lockdown in 2015 when the flu was freely killing an excess of 44,000 people. In fact we were all freely going about our business – oh, and some of us had a vaccine against the flu.
Contrast that with 2020 when we have had an 8 week lockdown, very few going about their business, and that sneaky Coronavirus still managed to kill an excess of 34,000 people. Pretty successful little virus if you ask me and not exactly like for like!
I don’t suppose its worth posting this, but just for Pete.
link to facebook.com
Incidentally – for anyone using Sweden as an example, maybe you should check your Facts and Truths on that one.
Cases of the novel coronavirus continue to rise in Sweden, which has a death rate of over 12 percent, the sixth highest in the world among countries with more than 1,000 confirmed cases, as of Thursday, according to the latest figures from Johns Hopkins University.
Sweden’s death rate is more than twice as high as that of the U.S. (around 5.8 percent), the current epicenter of the outbreak which has the highest death toll in the world, and of China (around 5.5 percent), where the virus was first reported in the city of Wuhan.
from Newsweek – Sat May 16th, 2020.
Also, those in the know realise that almost half of all households in Sweden are single occupancy as most children move out around age 18/19.
Whit! Nae green care badges? FFS!
Nice one, Chris.
Republicofscotland says: 16 May, 2020 at 10:16 am
Care needs to be taken about this narrative.
In a sense it is about restarting the economy and saving lives but it also needs to be considered that in lifting the lock-down prematurely risks a second wave of infection which will result in the lockdown needing to be reinstated and the economy damaged even more.
The Scottish government is putting the infrastructure for a system which should in theory contain virus outbreaks post lock down. I believe this will be in place at the end of the month. Link to this is here:
Coronavirus (COVID-19): test, trace, isolate, support strategy
As I said in theory this should be theory contain outbreaks and allow the economy to be restarted without any interruptions. However, it’s all very well having this strategy in place but it needs full participation from the general public and that will require a form of compulsion. If for instance senior figures like the Chief medical officer and recently the BTP chief breaks the lockdown then ordinary people are not going to participate in those post-lockdown procedures.
Going back on tangent, we need to stop getting bogged down on whether the lockdown needs to be lifted or not but talk about after the lock down gets lifted and how we can get the economy going, minimise deaths and ensure vulnerable groups plus people who support them aren’t relegated to second class citizens.
Meg Meriless
I would agree with you if the results/data from Sweden were not so contradictory. So, I am sorry Meg, that argument is not supported (yet – possibly ever).
What is more worrying though is this – if someone disagrees with lockdown and has the temerity to say so (that’s enough btw) it ‘triggers’ a certain type of person to rant and rave without making any counter argument whatsoever.
Classic cognitive dissonance in my view, not unlike those bat shit crazy unionist we like to take the piss out of.
Lockdown terrorists everywhere I look – even on Wings – God help us all.
“Maybe if you had put a saltire on the deliveries it would have been more accurate.”
In what conceivable way could the cartoon possibly be said to be “inaccurate”? I think what you mean is it was too subtle for YOU, and led you to make a bit of a tit of yourself, which you’re now trying to deflect attention from.
Meg at 12:31
and what is Swedens deaths per million compared to the UK?
@Breeks
yet again you are right. Westminster is in breach of the Treaty of Union over Brexit. Nicola Sturgeon needs to write that letter to point this out and end the treaty for Westminsters transgression. They’re using section 30 as an excuse knowing that Johnson will never grant it.
It’s not good enough from the party of independence. To me they are only another unionist party now – akin to the Lib Dems or labour. They either get back to their roots or change their name to the SDP- the Scottish Devolution Party. At the moment they ain’t doing what it says on the tin.
Curiously the “R number” is lower in london than much less densely populated areas of England.
link to theguardian.com
I don’t think it is because the lockdown is much stricter in london, just look at those pictures with people stuffed into public transport. Could be that so many people have already had it that there is now a herd immunity there, that means that the virus is much less deadly than the panic mongers in the goverment and media have said.
Pete, I’m sure you’ll be going to these anti-lockdown protests. As you are so confident that there is no risk then you will be quite happy to sign a legal document where you will refuse hospital treatment if you contact the coronavirus due to being there.
I think the Tories with possibly the assistance of many of the MSM in Scotland are trying to turn the agenda into the corona virus in the UK was the fault of the SNP. Yes, they are that desperate.
The real position is the deaths per million in Scotland being higher than it should be because of being chained to Westminster and requiring their approval to take the initial action.
Of course on here you will have the ‘this is no different to a flu’ brigade, ‘it’s not the wealthy care come owners that are responsible for the abysmal performance of care home’.
We will see soon if removing the lockdown with so many still infected was a wise move, although as many areas of England have decided to ignore Billy Bunter’s recommendations it may only be in some areas.
Pete says: 16 May, 2020 at 11:46 am
Back then, people had only access to 3 TV channels, newspapers and radio for information.
Even with the multiple alternative sources of information available to us, the government has lied, fudged and messaged official statistics about the health crisis. Do you think that back then with less scrutiny that the people back then would have known the full extent of that pandemic?
jfngw says: 16 May, 2020 at 12:59 pm
With the VE Day celeberations south of the border defying lockdown as well as the shifting of responsibility of stopping the virus from government to individual via their ‘stay alert’ nonsense, there could well be a spike in affected cases down in England. If so, then it will be stupid for them to try what you say.
“Lockdown should be frowned upon if it is irrelevant and does more damage than good – like it is proving to be in Sweden (although they have put sensible mitigation in place based on a grown up relationship with their citizens) and when the only spikes being seen in deaths right now are drug related and suicides.
My flabber remains to be gasted at the amount of ‘independent thinkers’ on here who decry the MSM on all things Scottish yet fall hook, line and sinker with this virus.”
Ahundredthidiot.
Your logic is flawed, for if there’s a second spike in Covid-19 infections the lockdown that follows it will be even longer, and those afflicted by drugs and those that are depressed will die in an even greater number.
I say this off the back of radio news which claims the R-number (The rate of infection) in England has risen from 0.5 to 1.0
“Going back on tangent, we need to stop getting bogged down on whether the lockdown needs to be lifted or not but talk about after the lock down gets lifted and how we can get the economy going, minimise deaths and ensure vulnerable groups plus people who support them aren’t relegated to second class citizens.”
PacMan.
Yes I agree I’m pretty sure Sturgeon will be setting out options now on how to proceed after the lockdown. It will of course be gradual, and probably based on scientific evidence.
republicofscotland
Ok, firstly – there is zero evidence that there will be a second wave – it is purely opinion based.
Second, if there is a second wave, Sweden will likely fare much better as their herd immunity has been permitted to develop (with some mitigation and the shielding of the vulnerable). I would bet our NHS has the capacity to deal with any second wave without the need for lockdown, so long as we shield the vulnerable.
Thirdly – there is a pretty good argument to be made that the virus was with us well before lockdown and therefore herd immunity in the UK is also well underway. (that would be a good thing – would it not?) – I am pretty sure I had all the symptoms in early December and was almost permitted to hospital as I was struggling to breath properly.
My opinion – is that it is the very word ‘herd’ is what is upsetting people, particularly coming from the dastardly Tories (I think they call that confirmation bias).
and lastly, how confident are you – given the dramatic change in how deaths are registered in Scotland – that some deaths are not being reported more than once? (I’ll just leave that there….)
I really can’t for the life of understand what this herd immunity bollocks is all about when we’re talking about humans here. it really is fallacious nonsense .We’re not ‘herds’ we’re humans. Herds are for animals like,cattle,sheep,goats and the like.
Unless you of course mean the hordes from The Walking Dead TV program is already in our midst- it is,it’s the Tory government.
robbo @ 1:24
…..and there it is……..would you Adam and Eve it!
I am very sure that nicola sturgeons policy on lifting the lockdown will be glacially slow, but it won’t be based on any scientific evidence, neither the UK gov or the Scot govs approaach has been based on scientific evidence. The UK government was bounced into this disastrous and unscientific lockdown policy after a media frenzy and public backlash over the herd immunity policy that both the scottish gov and UK gov previously supported.
The peak was on april the 8th, house arrest was imposed on the 23rd of march. That peak was far to early for it to have been caused by the lockdown. Sweden has also performed better than Scotland without a lockdown. Japan also has only introduced very mild measures, has low levels of testing and a elderly population, but has perfomed far far better than the UK without a lockdown.
Great cartoon and for the majority easily understood!
BTW, how many idiots does it take to change a lightbulb?
Answer 😀
link to psychcentral.com
@ ahundrethidiot.
It doesn’t matter whether you believe the pandemic is fake or real, whether waves exist or not, or an international conspiracy(there is some pretty compelling narratives out there) or just governments trying to exert more control over people. The UK gov have advised London Funeral Directors to prepare for a second wave in the autumn and increased the temporary mortuary facility from 30,000 to 100,000. That’s pretty specific, so what do they know that they aren’t sharing with us.
“Ok, firstly – there is zero evidence that there will be a second wave – it is purely opinion based.
Second, if there is a second wave, Sweden will likely fare much better as their herd immunity has been permitted to develop (with some mitigation and the shielding of the vulnerable). I would bet our NHS has the capacity to deal with any second wave without the need for lockdown, so long as we shield the vulnerable.
Thirdly – there is a pretty good argument to be made that the virus was with us well before lockdown and therefore herd immunity in the UK is also well underway. (that would be a good thing – would it not?) – I am pretty sure I had all the symptoms in early December and was almost permitted to hospital as I was struggling to breath properly.
My opinion – is that it is the very word ‘herd’ is what is upsetting people, particularly coming from the dastardly Tories (I think they call that confirmation bias).
and lastly, how confident are you – given the dramatic change in how deaths are registered in Scotland – that some deaths are not being reported more than once? (I’ll just leave that there….)”
Ahundredthidiot.
For your first point people are still dying from the virus, its still around,ergo if you give it the opportunity to expand it will.
As for your second point, the UK is not Sweden, we have the second highest death rates from the virus in the world, remember Johnson allowed “herd immunity” to flourish for a number of weeks, and we have seen many deaths.
Your third point, I agree that the virus has been around longer than we think, but that doesn’t equate to easing the lockdown earlier and allowing it to kill more folk.
As for your very last paragraph, do you have any evidence to the contrary?
@Ahindredtheidiot,
I was going to reply to you, but have decided that it would be easier to teach my Yorkshire Terrier to recite Tennysons ” The Lady Of Shalott” verbatim.
Now we have corresponded, can I shorten your moniker to “Idiot”?
Spot on Chris – chapeau bud!
Slightly O/T I hope you and others from WoS will consider looking at Gab as an alternative to twitter? Some pretty questionable characters on there doubtless (much like any social media platform i guess….?) but looks like it could be a viable alternative to the random and evidence free twitter bans>
The groups function might be a good forum for supporters of WoS going forward as they can exclude yoons, TRA extremists & wetnats….?
Any Wings supporters who fancy a look my ID there is @Ceannairc.
Coming late to the thread but excellent article from Kevin McKenna today in the Herald. Apos if already posted. It’s about the cpture of the SNP by Wokus Dei.
link to archive.fo
The UK Government’s Coronavirus Act 2020 received Royal Assent on the 25th March 2020. Schedule 19 of the Act gave Scotland these new powers for the first time..
link to legislation.gov.uk
This is the timeline for coronavirus in Scotland
link to spice-spotlight.scot
“This timeline focuses on Scotland’s response to the Coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic and includes all major developments. Each entry includes a link to further information and/or relevant official reports, policies and guidance.”
An independent Scotland would have had all the powers, and depending on which party was in power acted acted differently to try and mitigate the spread of the virus.
There are hundreds of mutations of the Covid 19 virus. According the WHO, 4.5 million people have the infection and over 300,000 have died.
With summer here, the numbers of people catching the virus might diminish due to the virus not surviving long in UV light. But, the Southern Hemisphere might yet experience a similar outbreak as the Northern Hemisphere when their winter begins
Interesting interview with an Epidemiologist, mtalks about the UK govs response in teh latter.
link to spiked-online.com
Quote that caught my attention was on the second peak “This is an invention to justify a policy that politicians are afraid of reversing.”
When Yoons claim Scotland’s Covid figures are worse than England’s, they should be referred to the UK GOVERNMENT site
link to coronavirus.data.gov.uk
This is the ONLY site that clearly shows the figures for each nation in UK. So why do the BBC/ MSM etc not use them? Oh its not appropriate make it a competition as we are all in it together…. exception when the likes of Jackson Carlaw, Ian Murray, Brian Wilson, Susan Dalgetty, John McLellan and Neil Findlay make political attacks on the Scottish government’s record.
link to talkingupscotlandtwo.com
@talkingupreminders is a brilliant rebuttal service.
“Capella says:
16 May, 2020 at 1:52 pm
Coming late to the thread but excellent article from Kevin McKenna today in the Herald. Apos if already posted. It’s about the cpture of the SNP by Wokus Dei.”
Thank you for the link Capella, nice new gravatar very fitting, anyway McKenna is correct I think, what’s your opinion on Sturgeon being involved in this as well, as surely the orders comes from the top down.
How dare people try and blame government for the failure of care homes.
Care homes are mostly private businesses
It is the private business care home sector that is responsible for nearly all deaths in care homes
Residents self funded have had to sell their home to pay for living in these care homes
When that ran out they had to use their savings
When that ran out the rest of us pay it with our taxes
These care homes make huge profits
They are responsible for buying their own equipment including PPP
They should have had stocks in place and they should have had replenishment arrangements in place
There was the scandal of the English NHS instructing manufacturers in England not to supply care homes outside Scotland but then the Scottish government stepped in to help
Up until then care homes had to excuse
I don’t think we’re ever going to agree on the best way out of this (I’ve made my views very clear) but I think the clincher for me is seeing just how easily the population is cowed into submission by overbearing state decree.
It is just so demeaning to see folks queuing outside shops, deserted town and city centres, the wearing of all sorts of face gear (probably useless), the fear of greeting friends and relatives and the suppression of all normal human activity.
The only sensible thing I have seen recently was Luke Johnson on QT who put the case for NOT allowing this virus to destroy the economy and therefore the livelihoods of millions, especially the young.
I thought the Scots were made of sterner stuff but it seems we’re more faintheart than braveheart.
“The number of deaths attributed to influenza from December 1967 to March 1968 (inclusive) exceeded those for same period in 1966-7 by 4444; the excess for pneumonia was 10,595, for bronchitis 6579 and for all causes 46,408.”
Taken from this 1969 Central Public Health Laboratory report:
link to europepmc.org
So the excess deaths in the recent 2 month period have already exceeded 1967/68 (4 months) by a substantial amount and this whilst most of the country is in lockdown. I can see now why it is just the same as the 1967/8 flu, I just need to put on my distortion spectacles.
Republicofscotland @1.15
“… I’m pretty sure Sturgeon will be setting out options now on how to proceed after the lockdown. It will of course be gradual…”
One would certainly hope so, especially in the light of the hash her English counterpart made of it.
Then again I had also hoped that options re our impending move towards Independence had been set out – On the result of the Brexit vote being announced, and at all or even any of the various checkpoints between then and now.
Slightly o/t but relevant to Token Offerings , A email from Nicolas husband Murrell ” Treat yourself to a bit of Independence was the headline ” aye yer having a fkn laugh pal , a brass necked bloody bit of cheek if ever I saw one , and you can stick yer membership up yer arse pal , probably won’t read or even be arsed about my reply because the membership is kept at arms length .
ahundredthidiot says:
16 May, 2020 at 1:28 pm
robbo @ 1:24
…..and there it is……..would you Adam and Eve it!
Naw ya fukwit it comes from science, something i rely on scientists to determine,no myself and certainly no you..
The concept of herd immunity in corona virus is crap.We know not enough about this disease as yet and don’t have a scooby doo of how many people it would need to infect to get that dubious concept. Also they don’t as yet know if it even gives immunity and for how long it would last if at all. So without a vaccine or some sort of lock-down control you’re prepared,just like BJ and DT just to let it run riot for the sake of a little longer and potentially kill millions of people!
FUCKING ARSE.
For your information it’s already killed the min estimates of people that die normally from flu which is between 290,000- 650,000 every year worldwide. Even though we have vaccines to mitigate some of the influenza’s that crop up each year. You do realise flu mutates every year that’s why vulnerable people get a flu jab every year- it’s a different strain, normally the most deadly variant strain that’s knocking about- ASK A FUCKING DOCTOR WILL YOU!
I’ve never in my lifetime seen flu overwhelming NH Services across the world-ever , unless you talk the Spanish flu(that came from AMERICA) don’t tell the Donald, he’ll flip!
Anyone can find that data online by typing a few words into google without going to some crackpots conspiracy website and listening to dribble.
Acht am away b4 that other rocket dog basket comes on today and i lose the plot.
Time for a nap.,
“Idon’t think we’re ever going to agree on the best way out of this (I’ve made my views very clear) but I think the clincher for me is seeing just how easily the population is cowed into submission by overbearing state decree.
It is just so demeaning to see folks queuing outside shops, deserted town and city centres, the wearing of all sorts of face gear (probably useless), the fear of greeting friends and relatives and the suppression of all normal human activity.
The only sensible thing I have seen recently was Luke Johnson on QT who put the case for NOT allowing this virus to destroy the economy and therefore the livelihoods of millions, especially the young.
I thought the Scots were made of sterner stuff but it seems we’re more faintheart than braveheart.”
Pete.
It appears to me that numpties like you require a rude awakening to jolt you back into the real world. A visit to a Covid-19 ward, the suffering the tears, the relentless noises from multiple ventilators pumping away, whilst NHS staff try their best to keep folk alive, might just dawn on you that people are dying whilst you whinge on about folk queuing outside shops and quiet high streets.
@RepublicofScotland
Have you ever been to a Covid-19(84) ward?
Love your cartoons Chris.
I’ve given up watching the briefings, as I want to keep my social distancing from unprecedented bull we receive on a daily basis.
@ republicofscotland – thx – gravatars from Stu’s thread, plenty to choose from:
link to wingsoverscotland.com
I am pretty certain that Nicola Sturgeon supports LGBT ideology. She may not be writing the guidance, that is done by civil servants; she may not be writing the GRA reform act nor the Hate Crime Bill; but there’s no way these issues could have advanced so far without her approval.
It is possible that she, like many others, support transgender ideology for humanitarian reasons. So many otherwise intelligent women and men have swooned into a condition of belief in this delusion. I can’t really understand it myself. I have a respect for science and factual reality that over-rides the belief that men can turn into women.
Scotland has been famous for centuries as the home of scientific discovery and invention. It is embarrassing to find there are people in positions of power who want to enshrine scientific shibboleth in law. It reminds me of Galileo being hauled in front of the inquisition and shown the torture instruments and forced to recant his observation that the earth and planets circulate around the sun. The epitaph he had placed on his tombstone was “eppur Si muove” or “But the Earth does move!”
Im finding it very interesting the amount of insults being thrown by people still hooked on the official narrative – despite sincere and professional arguments against it.
Are we looking at a lack of mental agility? Or are we looking at people who can’t handle the idea that authorities and media are capable of mass lies?
I’ll put it down to psychology. Coz im feeling charitable.
@ bipod
The Scottish gov in general and Nicola in particular were arguing for aggressive measures at the Cobra meetings. We know this because it raised the spectre at the time of Scotland going its own way in dealing with the pandemic which scared the shit out of Johnson and his cronies. They required a UK wide response to hide behind and it probably accounts for the delay in legislation passing power to Scotland.
This is worth a read I think
link to solidarity.scot
Joe believes that almost every government in the world is working in collusion for some covert reason that is not exactly clear.
Maybe they think if we are subjected to the UK government daily briefings for long enough we will be sucked of the will to live and end it all. Admittedly life does seem too long when Raab or Hancock are talking.
Nurse Nicola ‘Ratchet’ Sturgeon and her cronies really ought to get their heads out of their collective fundament and read this.
link to spiked-online.com
How many time do these people need telling….ya may have got it totally wrong guys, that and probably other stuff too.
Can the informed and enlightened who are busy throwing insults and repeating mainstream media talking points please explain the following chart:
link to statista.com
@Capella,
noticed your new gravatar has replaced your old one in (i think) all past posts,your ballerina has been written out of history,
read the McKenna piece,always find his writing `style` hard going,
can`t really disagree with much (although don`t agree with everything),
though it being in the Herald, the home of British Nationalist Apologist Tom Gordon, you get the feeling it`s only there because it criticises Nicola and the SNP,
don`t mind healthy criticism from our side but the British Nationalists can get tae f@ck.
(not sayin McKenna is BN but he works for a BN outfit)
@ capella 3.05pm
It’s passing strange that not one reporter from the Scots MSM has ever interviewed Nicol Sturgeon and really put her on the spot about her views on the GRA, self-ID, women’s rights, access to women’s spaces by trans women, the abuse of senior SNP women (and many others in the broader movement) by trans rights extremists within the party and its abject failure to discipline and expel the offenders.
It says much about our media and the First Minister that we’re none the wiser about her actual views, even if it is increasingly evident from her silence which side of the argument she is on.
BBC figures today with The SUN filling in the blanks.
Scotland……today….41…….Total…..2094…BBC
Wales………today….18…….Total…..1191…BBC
N. Ireland….today….04…….Total……473…BBC
England…….today…181…….Total..no data…BBC
====================================================
UK…………today…468…….Total….*34466..*SUN
“I am pretty certain that Nicola Sturgeon supports LGBT ideology. She may not be writing the guidance, that is done by civil servants; she may not be writing the GRA reform act nor the Hate Crime Bill; but there’s no way these issues could have advanced so far without her approval.”
“It is possible that she, like many others, support transgender ideology for humanitarian reasons. So many otherwise intelligent women and men have swooned into a condition of belief in this delusion. I can’t really understand it myself. I have a respect for science and factual reality that over-rides the belief that men can turn into women.”
Capella.
Re your first paragraph on Sturgeon supporting LGBT ideology as you say, a noble gesture indeed but what then happens if that gesture via the GRA bill infringes upon women’s rights.
As for your second paragraph, continuing on from my first reply, just how could Sturgeon, knowing her stance on furthering women’s rights, think that the GRA bill is even remotely compatible with that.
What woman wants a bearded guy bursting into a ladies bathroom, who then via all the pretences of acting as a woman, in the process frightens the real female occupants of the bathroom, not to mention children,or worse assaults them in some seedy fashion.
Sturgeon must know, that to proceed with such a bill will undoubtedly cost votes next year, the question must be why continue with it then?
As for Galileo, the church kept him under house arrest for years, Galileo at least left a legacy for those coming after him to build on, I think Newton,and humanity benefitted from Galileo’s work, what benefit is their to us all to repress women’s rights via the GRA bill?
Pete says: 16 May, 2020 at 2:10 pm
We here this and that government, including our own, talking about acting on scientific advice. That gives it an air of authority but it isn’t. There is so much conflicting information coming out of the scientific community and no consensus. Therefore this scientific advice is really scientific opinion.
Of course that is an opinion of mine and others will disagree with me. I don’t have enough information to form a definite conclusion. The same applies to those who disagree with this opinion.
Regardless of what we think, people are dying and the economy is at risk of crashing. Therefore it makes sense with such a new strain of virus that we now very little about to err on the side of caution and follow the current lock-down strategy to ensure that as many lives are saved and the long term health of the economy is not put at risk as well as procedures can be put in place to stop future outbreaks.
That isn’t being ‘cowed into submission by overbearing states’ or not being made of sterner stuff. That is using your critical facilities to form an opinion in order to do the best for yourself and the community you live in.
While there is a medical case for a lock-down, there is also a psychological requirement as well because of selfish idiots like you who don’t care for themselves or their fellow citizens. It is the likes of you who can’t follow common sense and needs to compulsed to do so. It is due to the likes of you that the lock down is needed in the first place.
I don’t like queuing outside shops and the other things that you mentioned but it is something that we need to get to in order to deal with this health crisis. I’m sorry if that isn’t good enough for you and what I say makes me sounds like a ‘sheeple’ in your eyes.
While there are quite a bit I don’t agree with that the Scottish government has done in this health crisis and they have certainly made a lot of mistakes. However, they are handling it a lot better than what is being done in England. I feel confident that we will emerge in a better position both economically and health-wise than England will be. I’m sorry that you don’t like that.
@Andy Ellis
Are you suggesting that the media and governments could collude to stop information flow to the public?
That’s upsetting to my cozy worldview. Therefore I reject it.
*insert dismissive insult here*
Begone. Tinfoil hat wearer.
@Andy Ellis –
Hear hear.
And we shouldn’t forget – Nicola Sturgeon still hasn’t – so far as I’m aware – made any comment on Alex Salmond’s acquittal. Hard to think of any more significant silence.
mr thms
The southern hemisphere is even less able to cope with the threat of pandemic, than England. By not preparing or responding properly, governments around the world have exacerbated the crises and prolonged it’s effects. This ideological rejection of cooperative ethical rationalism will cost many lives and deepen global poverty.
The impact of COVID-19 (Coronavirus) on global poverty: Why Sub-Saharan Africa might be the region hardest hit
link to blogs.worldbank.org
@Ottomanboi
Read until I reach the following
There is no indication that hospitals could ever have become overloaded, irrespective of what we did.
I just need to type Italian hospitals overwhelmed and find that there has been health services overloaded.
Of course we could all be wrong, but if we are not, are the naysayers willing, if we end lockdown, to take responsibility or will they be screaming ‘why wasn’t something done’, the hindsight experts.
@ Andy Ellis – Nicola Sturgeon has signed the Trans rights pledge (sorry forget its name) but not signed the Women’s pledge. She has attended LGBT marches and spoken at them, and has met Trans activists at Holyrood and tweeted her photo with them. I am not aware of her ever meeting a Women’s rights group or tweeting photos of such.
So the evidence is pretty conclusive that she actively supports Trans rights but does not actively support Women’s rights.
But you’re right, the MSM is peculiarly reluctant to challenge her on this topic. It may be that they are saving it up for a campaign.
@ Scott Findlayson – I know Kevin McKenna seems quite ambivalent about the SNP. I always see him as a Labour man but maybe supports independence (discreetly). If only the SNP didn’t have “National” in their name. Nevertheless, I thought he was spot on in that article.
The pink ballerina can be resurrected in the future. Perhaps when WoS is reinstated on twitter, Wokus Dei is sent packing and we are independent?
For those who continue to cherry-pick science in order to make a case, that’s just not compatible with a liberal interpretation of the rule-of-law. Policy is not based entirely on science, which is a product of culture, it is shaped through wider ethical and legal concerns. Although these are also a product of culture, their aim is to ensure impartiality and equality in law.
Just because one opinion suggest something that appears valid, that doesn’t mean that opinion is valid.
COVID-19 and the Turn to Magical Thinking
link to sapiens.org
@Capella
The pink ballerina just reminds me now of the first season of Killing Eve, now I’m wondering if you are actually a Russian assassin? If the press get a hold of this, ‘Independence supporter has Russian ties’, I can see the headline now.
@ republicofscotland – re Galileo – it is us who are like Galileo.
I hope our legacy can be returning sense and order to the legal system. We mustn’t tolerate the persecution of journalists for telling the truth.
@ Ian Brotherhood 3.44pm
Neither the Scots nor indeed UK MSM has laid a glove on Nicola Sturgeon. Looked at one way it’s actually quite impressive that she’s been able to stonewall over both the Salmond trial and the oncoming brick wall of trans extremism. It’s a sad indictment of both the MSM and the SNP (party & activist/membership base) that she’s been able to do so.
Added you to my followers list on Gab by the way! Don’t think there are too many Scots & indy supporters over there…..(yet?).
That last sentence got a bit mangled. Put simply, some knowledge is valid and some ‘knowledge’ less so.
Estimates of the impact of COVID-19 on global poverty
link to wider.unu.edu
@ jfngw – I’ve never seen Killing Eve. But I didn’t copyright the pink ballerina so I can’t send a cease and desist order! I didn’t know the Bolshoi Ballet were doing contract killings too. Will keep the magenta tutu in a nearby phonebox in case it’s needed for the revolution.
@Republicofscotland
You said:
‘Pete.
It appears to me that numpties like you require a rude awakening to jolt you back into the real world. A visit to a Covid-19 ward, the suffering the tears, the relentless noises from multiple ventilators pumping away, whilst NHS staff try their best to keep folk alive, might just dawn on you that people are dying whilst you whinge on about folk queuing outside shops and quiet high streets.’
Have you ever been to a Covid-19 ward?
@Andy Ellis –
Cheers, I saw that and have followed you back, thanks. There’s a few of us making our way over there, I’ll get word out later this evening and hopefully we’ll get a wee influx.
Much grumbling out there about Twitter and more Wings avatars than you could shake a proverbial at!
😉
@Andy Ellis
I think Nicola Sturgeon would be able to answer these questions without actually saying anything. She is, no matter what you think of her personally, a superb politician and could talk for minutes and you would be no wiser of her personal view.
For example, she would be guided by the rule of law but would not undermine women taking action to defend themselves. The GRA is under review and wide consultation and she will be guided by the outcome of this, her own opinions are of no consequence, she will proceed under guidance of these recommendations.
@Capella
Is this you then?
“Chained to a madman and suffering excess deaths”
From stewartb (who’s contributions of late over on TuSC have been on point).
“‘excess deaths’ are likely to be the most reliable single indicator of the overall public health impact of this pandemic.”
link to talkingupscotlandtwo.com
Cracccckking cartoon Chris ??? Or is it reality, I fancy the latter so much truth written in your scribes
@ jfngw 4.11pm
I used to hold her in high regard: now…..not so much. She may be a capable administrator and be pretty slick in front of camera, but I’ve come to think that much of her popularity and polish rests not so much on her (undoubted) talents but on the fact she has such execrable opposition.
Similarly, she’s never to my knowledge faced the kind of forensic interview on these topics that would have required her to justify her stance and that of the flat earther trans extremists she appears happy to shield. Doubtless she could try the obfuscation techniques common to all politicians, but she needs to be confronted by someone who isn’t afraid to ask her to respond in a straightforward way to specific scenarios.
Of course, I won’t exactly be holding my breath……but I’d love Mandy Rhodes to really put Sturgeon to the question on these issues and the rank misogyny which now appears to run rampant in her party.
@Andy Ellis
The opposition is undoubtedly hopeless, and there doesn’t look like there is any hope of the future potential leaders being any better. They can never be anything if all they seems themselves as is London’s attack dogs. No matter how bad the SNP are I’m not willing to hand control of Holyrood to any of them.
So just now I’m stuck in voting SNP to keep the London parties out, it’s not a good reason for voting but there is no alternative at the moment.
Latest count of confirmed #COVID19 cases worldwide at 1500 GMT, May 16
World: 4,574,902
U.S.: 1,445,867
Russia: 272,043
Britain: 241,454
Spain: 230,698
Italy: 223,885
Brazil: 220,291
France: 179,630
Germany: 175,715
Turkey: 146,457
Iran: 118,392
India: 86,595
Peru: 84,495
@jfngw 4.49pm
The SNP may be the elephant in the room, but they’re not the ONLY alternative. It may of course prove correct that they can win an absolute majority on their own in 2021 if their current polling continues: however, even if it does that won’t from what I can see translate into #indyref2 anytime soon given the party’s lack of stomach for actually bringing such a vote about via the courts or plebiscitary elections.
I have very little faith the few adults remaining in the SNP will be able to save it from itself, but I wish them luck. No party is entitled to uncritical or automatic support. I’d certainly take some of the plausible alternatives in the SNP over Sturgeon: Cherry, Whitford, Hosie.
We do need alternatives. It certainly isn’t the Greens or RISE/SSP in my view. We do need the SNP as the engine of the indy movement, but it doesn’t mean we have to accept the current leadership or platform in toto.
I agree absolutely @ Capella 3.05pm. And yes to others NS is involved, up to her neck. What a fkn joke- feels over fact.
About 30 of the David McIcke fan club gathered in Holyrood Park this afternoon.
The exodus to link to gab.com is underway.
Doesn’t mean we have to abandon Twitter but if we have this platform to fall back on we can kick up fuck about what’s happened to Rev, Craig Murray, Graham Linehan etc, and when they start banning us individually (as they’re bound to) we can regroup over there.
Half a dozen of us onboard so far.
Please join (it’s free and very easy, takes two minutes max), share, and let’s make a noise about this – Twitter is not going to get away with interfering in our lives and endangering the well-being and careers of the people who represent us in this time of change.
So help send out a loud and clear message to – our politics is our business, not yours, so GTF Twitter!
😉
I’m not sure a second indy ref has any better chance than the first one, of being reasonable and democratic. I think It would be much harder for the state to trash a Scottish general election. So would it not be safer to ask Scotland the question in an election manifesto?
I would just like to add to Ians post:
Like it or not, you are rebels. You must learn to adapt to using the infrastructure that best works for you. You cannot afford to allow a global corporation to dictate what you can and cannot say.
This means putting in a little extra effort.
If people simply create a mirror account of their own twitter it means you have protected your group comms. It also pokes the censors and totalitarians in the eye.
Some will be so mad they might wet their pretty frilly panties.
“Have you ever been to a Covid-19 ward?”
Joe.
No I haven’t, but a person I know has and they related to me the intense emotive atmosphere within it.
Oh yes – for the people that hate me: don’t worry. I wont be bothering anyone there. I will be putting up covid-19(84) articles and stats from time to time for as long as its relevant and that’s all.
“That’s a superb read, Grouse Beater, thanks. I can see the value of maintaining the SNP in government, despite the problems at the top.” Stuart MacKay
I appreciate the impetus to keep going (and from Bob Mack), many thanks.
I agree maintaining SNP in government is critical but I might suggest fewer coffee and Tunnock’s Wafer breaks in place of a vigorous strategy to keep our enemies reeling.
@Republicofscotland
Someone I know in London told me that Covid-19 is being recorded on death certificates even when they didn’t die of it.
Im not as theatrical as you however. Otherwise id have had George Clooney in a doctors coat, a bomb scare and Bruce Willis crashing through a window also.
Why should Scotland not be an independent state?
Has that question ever been posed?
Similarly, how long have you been such a snivelling little shit?
Just joking….NOT!
“I think It would be much harder for the state to trash a Scottish general election. So would it not be safer to ask Scotland the question in an election manifesto?”
CameronB Brodie.
What makes you think that? If Westminster can influence elections in Kenya what’s to stop them doing it in Scotland? Of course we’re not just talking about any old Scottish election, we’d be talking about one that could lead to independence.
Westminster cannot afford to let Scotland go, and take along with it, a third of the land mass,all its assets, its North Atlantic strategic position, whilst kicking out its nukes and nuclear subs,along with a whole host of benefits that Scotland provides to this unfit for purpose union.
Westminster will fight dirty to keep Scotland that’s what they’ve been doing for the last 313 years.
I should add its the Scottish/unionist gatekeepers that we need to worry about the most, our very own Fifth Column.
Echoing Ian Brotherhood’s earlier post:
If we build it, they will come!
link to gab.com
Rather than rejecting the evidence of risk and encouraging resistance to lock-down, those who support English Torydum should perhaps reflect on the ‘contribution’ a decade of austerity and service fragmentation has made to Brexitanian resilience, and also perhaps on their broken moral compass. Human rights come as a package, so you can’t pick and choose which ones to respect.
Is Scotland really going to allow English Torydun define our human rights, when there is a perfectly valid framework of international law that would support Scotland’s cultural development? It is only nationalist tradition that separates Scots from accessing their human rights. Brexitanian ‘human right’ lack coherence and compatibility with international law. That means they also lack coherence with global health law.
Poor Neighbourhoods in Wales and England Have Double the COVID-19 Death Rate as Wealthy Areas
“This is a moment to re-evaluate failing health, housing, and social support systems.”
link to globalcitizen.org
@ jfngw 4.14 – that’s my Sunday frock.:)
“Someone I know in London told me that Covid-19 is being recorded on death certificates even when they didn’t die of it.”
That may well be Joe, but how does that relate to folk actually dying from it in Covid-19 wards, does that somehow negate that in your world.
I should also add that there are some many other symptoms for the virus other than a persistent cough, a temperature, and telling fatigued, I could say people have died from it but because the symptoms are similar to those declared, that they’ve wrongly been recorded as dying from something else.
Republicofscotland
I wasn’t suggesting their wouldn’t be state interference, I just think the process of a GE would be less vulnerable to media bias, for example. No day-long adverts for Vote NobOrders on the BBC, and probably less coordinated “political terrorism” aimed at the elderly. I think the Treasury would also find it harder to earn gongs from Betty.
bipod says:
16 May, 2020 at 2:01 pm
Interesting interview with an Epidemiologist, mtalks about the UK govs response in teh latter.
His Alma Mater, Rockefeller University, has disowned him.
Relying solely on herd immunity through widespread exposure to combat COVID-19 would overwhelm hospitals and put the elderly and people with preexisting conditions at risk.
Bipod and people like him may well think piles of (elderly, useless) dead bodies in the streets – or on the lawns of care homes – is a small price to pay to save the economy, but any politician, even Trump, is smart enough to see that the news footage would destroy any government on whose watch it happened.
The pandemic has brought a lot of loonies out of the woodwork.
Joe says:
16 May, 2020 at 5:39 pm
@Republicofscotland
Someone I know in London told me that Covid-19 is being recorded on death certificates even when they didn’t die of it.
The coronavirus pandemic has sparked many crazy conspiracy theories on social media. One of these is the notion that doctors issuing death certificates are either writing Covid-19 to inflate the overall numbers of deaths, or deliberately omitting it to play the numbers down.
The online warriors spouting such theories (in equal numbers) rarely have any background in healthcare, but they nevertheless seem equally confident in their claims that doctors are being financially incentivised to ramp up or play down the true figures on Covid-19 deaths, or are somehow pressurised by the authorities to breach their own professional codes.
@ Ian Brotherhood @ Andy Ellis – well I’ve signed up to Gab. Now what? I followed you Ian (can’t remember your username Andy) but my timeline is full of people I don’t follow. Will have to find out how to use it. More faffing about online!
Somebody already had my username. I would send a cease and desist order if I knew who it is. But my display name is still Capella.
Oops – just noticed your username Andy. Now following.
CBB
If the SNP do not tick the Independence NOW box on their election manifesto – I will be struggling to think of a valid reason for voting for their candidate in the FPTP ballot never mind the party for the list.
Having known the incumbent for more than twenty years and being reasonably certain that he has not morphed into a closet Unionist, might not be enough to tip the balance in his favour.
link to youtube.com
Because I know I will be walking up to the polling station, with the chorus of this song ringing in my ears.
name that tune:
Re previous posts about 2nd wave of coronvirus . This is about the staff in the Welsh Nhs angry about the street parties that were held to celebrate VE Day and no doubt England will be in the same position .
link to archive.vn
And how the largest critical care ward in Wales Nhs is a week away from being overrun with coronavirus cases .
link to archive.vn
Also an interesting article about how coronavirus is affecting adults .
link to archive.vn
And affecting children .
link to archive.vn
@Capella 6.24pm
Found you! Sent you a message. Pretty same look and feel to twatter really. Haven’t fully investigated it all myself yet. There appears to be a chat functions, and if you sign up (and pay!) as a Pro member you can create and be admin for a Group – that could be a useful function for Wings exiles to keep the alt-right crazies and other sundry libertarians on the platform in general at bay?
I also downloaded the Tootle app for my iPhone. There are apps for Android too.
Col.Blimp IV
It’s not simply political resolve Scotland needs to find, it also needs to find a judiciary who actually support the principle of equality in law. 😉
Access to Justice for Economic,
Social and Cultural Rights
Training Materials on Access to Justice
for Migrant Children, Module 3
link to icj.org
“The online warriors spouting such theories (in equal numbers) rarely have any background in healthcare, but they nevertheless seem equally confident in their claims that doctors are being financially incentivised to ramp up or play down the true figures on Covid-19 deaths, or are somehow pressurised by the authorities to breach their own professional codes.”
Joe.
You may have a point with regards to your first paragraph, however referring to your above comment, no matter claims or counter claims on what doctors and authorities put on death certificates, people are still dying from Covid-19 in hospitals all around the world, and in the UK, or do you dispute that as well?
Is there a point to your nibbling around the edges of the virus, or are you deliberately just trying to play its severity down at this late stage just as Pete has.
I remember watching a youtube video of Nicola being questioned in a radio station about the GRA and womans rights there was a guy on a video link I’m sure it was a BBC station and she was all over the place, it was noteworthy because it the only time I’ve seen her struggle with a question, she was all over the place, but she tried to make out there was room for self ID and protecting womans rights but couldn’t specify how that would work.
Does anybody else remember that ?
Scots renewables @6.10pm, my apologies, I though Joe was replying to me. My comment @6.40pm was aimed at Joe, and not your good self.
@ScotsRenewables
You are so disgraceful.
I knew someone on here would try to discredit the man rather than engage with the content, he isn’t the right kind of scientist, with the right opinions so we don’t listen to him.
The virus has already ran out of control in the care homes despite the lockdown and the NHS hasn’t collapsed, other countries which have no lockdown also haven’t seen there health care systems collapse.
If you have read the article you would see that he was proposing that people who are not in any real danger of dying from the virus should be allowed back out and those who are in danger, like the elderly should isolate themselves. That way you don’t completely destroy the economy, potentially killing more people than the virus in the longer term, and protect the people who are vulnerable. Instead we have placed eveyone under house arrest, trashed the economy, haven’t really done a good job of protecting the vulnerable and the NHS sits half empty waiting for a “second peak” that will probably never arrive.
… this article by Robin McAlpine may have been mentioned here before but, in case not, here’s a link. Essential reading, whether or not you agree with it:
link to sourcenews.scot
“¡Muera la inteligencia! ¡Viva la Muerte!” (Look it up!)
A sign of out new ordered times.
Viva l’Escocia Libre….
“CameronB Brodie says:
16 May, 2020 at 5:56 pm
Republicofscotland
I wasn’t suggesting their wouldn’t be state interference, I just think the process of a GE would be less vulnerable to media bias, ”
CameroB Brodie.
The media is never neutral, and experience has shown us that it’s hostile to Scottish independence. A good example of it in action recently in a GE was its relentless persecution of Jeremy Corbyn, pushing everything from anti-Semitism to Corbyn sharing a podium with a terrorist, to standing next to a mural which was allegedly quoted as some sort of anti-Semitic drawing, or Corbyn putting a wreath down at a funeral of another terrorist, we know how that GE turned out.
You can be certain that the British government, of which Johnson has already broken and bent most of the political etiquette to get what he and Cummings want, will do the same if not more to prevent Scotland from leaving this unholy union, they can’t afford not to.
As Kevin McKenna put it in the National newspaper, Scotland and it’s government, with regards to independence play fair with Westminster and follow the rules McKenna quite rightly points out that we need a nasty b#stard in charge who’s prepared to play dirty to obtain Scottish independence. Alas Sturgeon doesn’t have it in her to be that person, mind you she had no qualms in seeing Salmond sent down for years, so you never know.
“If you have read the article you would see that he was proposing that people who are not in any real danger of dying from the virus should be allowed back out and those who are in danger, like the elderly should isolate themselves.”
Billie.
There’s a glaring flaw in the above comment, and it’s this, fit and healthy people are dying that are not in any vulnerable group , what do you suggest they do.
Note how ‘advertising’, that noxious tv stuff, has swung behind the current ‘régime’; isolation, lockdown, quarantine, etc.
Divide, and so easily influence the masses.
Naaassty!
Nobody answers me when I link the actual numbers, the real stats or facts. The people on here defending the official covid-1984 narrative are a disgrace. So full of shit its not real.
Joe, Ottomaboi, bipod –
FWIW I support your efforts and I’m sure many others do too but are simply afraid to state so openly.
There’s a lot of fear and confusion around.
🙁
You sent a link to a graph-congratulations! .What was the point?
The question, the conclusion you came to when there’s some stats on a virus barely 2-3 months old.
Again whats the fecking question?//
For Joe
Robbo
link to statista.com
Anybody who looks at these numbers and doesnt have some question marks is either avoiding uncomfortable questions or is as thick as shyte. Which are you?
bipod….don’t be stupid , the economy won’t be destroyed ,the economy is still there , production of much is continuing as normal that’s why you see your supermarket shelves full and replenished each day and amazon etc doing a roaring trade.
Parts of the economy that have been put on hold are non essential parts that we will resume once it’s all over.
Where do you think the money comes from to pay people’s pensions benefits furlough etc it’s simply an accountancy record in the governments records they don’t have a huge stash of cash sitting in the basement of the Bank of England waiting for an emergency.
The emergency is to stop people dying from covid19 every day , allowing people be they young or old to go about their day as usual will allow those less scrupulous people who don’t believe covid19 exists or who think it’s harmless , to infect real people who don’t have the strength to survive it and who will die from the infection.
Tom….I think robin Mac alpine has got it wrong
There are many reasons why epidemic control isn’t announced as soon as it’s known
To be honest now is definitely not the time to be accusing the Scottish government of doing things wrongly
If they have done things wrong made mistakes or poor choices or decisions the time to deal with it is once its alll over
At present they appear to be doing a good job and people are happy about it
Robin Mac alpine thinks the Scottish government stole his report on track and trace he has mentioned it a lot but he may be wrong perhaps others made a plan too , let’s face it there can’t be much difference between one track and trace plan and another
Ian Brotherhood
“Joe, Ottomaboi, bipod –
FWIW I support your efforts and I’m sure many others do too but are simply afraid to state so openly.
There’s a lot of fear and confusion around.”
You lack the technical competence to argue against public health ethics and global health law, which is what you are doing by joining the right-wing. Sorry but that’s the bottom line.
Where’s you evidence the environment is safe, and I don’t mean from that Swiss site, as it lacked ethical credibility. You might have appreciate that if you had the relevant scientific and legal competence.
Joe says:
16 May, 2020 at 7:35 pm
Robbo
Wtf, really? What’s the question Joe? What questions should I have in particular?
You may aswell have linked it to a porn site and gave us something to look at.
Ahundredthidiot
Sweden’s deaths per million are now the fifth highest worldwide at 358.04 per million.
Norway is currently on 43.66 and the UK is 511.33
link to statista.com
I heard a german professor speaking on the radio in the small hours yesterday and he has been studying the results in Germany/Austria/Switzerland and Denmark and trying to work out why there should be such a difference with the results in France, Italy, UK and Spain.
He said that size of city is a huge factor as Paris, London etc are much bigger than any of theirs; undoubtedly air quality and pollution has contributed greatly to the excess deaths but , curiously, he wondered what the ratio of Chlorine is in drinking water in the severely affected countries because chlorination can affect the immune system…..
Comparisons between seasonal flu(influenza) and corona virus are massively flawed.
For a virus that’s barely 3 months old we have expert epidemiologists on here fixated on world conspiracy theories.
Only take a few clicks of a mouse into the search engine and walla-amazing what you find. Probably 99% of scientists agree!
Who’ of ‘adam and eve’d’ it to coin the phrase from earlier dreamer.
This one from Mar 20
link to fullfact.org
Notice how coronavirus 2-3 months in and not knowing the full effects of it yet this different disease surpasses 290,000(min yearly estimates on flu worldwide) deaths already – not even a year.
More recent.
link to nbcnews.com
Pete wrote on 16 May, 2020 at 11:37 am to Chris Cairns:
“You are correct and I apologise. However, you know the audience you are directing it to, and, as always, *they come blasting out full throttle against Westminster.* Maybe if you had put a saltire on the deliveries it would have been more accurate.”
LOL! QUICK! AN ALBINO SQUIRREL.
**My emphasis.
And you didn’t come out full throttle spewing crap?
LMFAO!
“And we shouldn’t forget – Nicola Sturgeon still hasn’t – so far as I’m aware – made any comment on Alex Salmond’s acquittal. Hard to think of any more significant silence.”
@Ian Brotherhood: actually, she has been quoted on Alex Salmond’s acquittal but it’s hardly a gracious statement, aka grudging and through gritted teeth.
link to web.archive.org
Let me try again: link to web.archive.org
O/T…
To Ian Brotherhood et al.
RE: Gab.
I’m not on Twitter but thought I would give Gab a try.
Bummer!
It accepted my username, email address and password but didn’t send me an email to confirm. 5 times I clicked on “Didn’t receive confirmation instructions?” but still got no confirmation email.
I went back to the setup page but it tells me my username and email address are already taken and won’t let me do anything except click the “Didn’t receive confirmation instructions?” link. Then they don’t send me an email.
Gab seems to have taken the huff so, as I can’t be @r$ed dealing with an intransigent opponent, I will give up on Gab.
Meg Merriless
I heard the same suggestion two months ago and it may stand up. Wuhan and Northern Italy both have poor air quality (apparently) and so too NYC – thus far, the data, even if just one factor, does support that suggestion.
Re deaths per million – of course, we will only ever to properly and competently assess the impact of this virus once it is all over. However, it would be remiss to ignore something that actually works to treat people and there are a few examples of that. I encourage my elderly parents to take Vit D as an example.
ALL I am trying to do, is suggest that the ‘mitigation, not lockdown’ policy in Sweden has not led to apocalypse now and is doing decidedly better than the UK. I do know this though, suicides and drug deaths are spiking and plenty folks were warning of this weeks ago. And then there is the economy in tatters.
Countries like Norway, may only have delayed the impact of the virus – maybe, only time will tell – particularly if they locked down before it really got a foothold with community spread.
And, I am not yet convinced (due to such tiny numbers in Oz and NZ) that this virus is not a mutated version of Aussie Flu that Health Experts have been expecting since mid 2019.
link to youtube.com
robbo at 8:20
you lost all credibility in an earlier post when you suggested that Humans aren’t animals.
Herd Immunity to virus’ have gotten the species this far – you ranting rabid fool of a took! – a modern phenomenon that the species soon shakes off, I hope!
It has been widely reported that gab appears to be the home of neo-nazis, extremists and the american alt right.
link to wsj.com
I have seen little evidence to persuade me otherwise. Do folks really want to be associated with that kind of thing? Rightly or wrongly, how that is percieved does matter.
@ Tinto Chiel.
‘ grudging and through gritted teeth.
Is that what the newspaper said or is that your interpretation.
Respecting the verdict of not guilty is exactly what everybody should be doing, except they’re not. The media and the accusers haven’t and so the FM to your mind must be tarred with the same brush and speaks with forked tongue. With an enquiry and possible litigation in the ( hopefully) not to distant future, I’m struggling to think of what she might have said that would not have possibly compromised or prejudiced either the inquiry or litigation.
@Brian Doonthetoon 9.19pm
I had a similar issue to begin with: think it might have been operator error on my part tho as I tried to re-enter the details because the confirmation email didn’t come quickly enough!?
Make sure you’ve entered your email exactly right. Glitches are a pain, but might be worth persevering if you want an alternative to twatter etc.? The more of a base we can construct on there the better: at least it will hopefully be immune to the kind of treatment doled out to Wings, Glinner etc.
ahundredthidiot says:
16 May, 2020 at 9:22 pm
robbo at 8:20
you lost all credibility in an earlier post when you suggested that Humans aren’t animals.
Herd Immunity to virus’ have gotten the species this far – you ranting rabid fool of a took! – a modern phenomenon that the species soon shakes off, I hope!
———————
Here’s what I said you absolute nitwit. Doesn’t surprise me a yoon taking things out of context. Nowhere does it say in that comment we aren’t animal!
robbo says:
16 May, 2020 at 1:24 pm
I really can’t for the life of understand what this herd immunity bollocks is all about when we’re talking about humans here. it really is fallacious nonsense .We’re not ‘herds’ we’re humans. Herds are for animals like,cattle,sheep,goats and the like.
Unless you of course mean the hordes from The Walking Dead TV program is already in our midst- it is,it’s the Tory government.
————————-
Humans are mammals , hominids ya dafty and socialise as animals yes,sometimes. We’re not cattle or sheep and don’t act like a herd of fucking sheep. Use your herd immunity on a flock of sheep ya moron ,not humans, cos your gonna piss off loads of homo sapiens like me that doesn’t want to be treated as a statistic for your mental theories.
Herd immunity is gonna be years down the line IF we’re lucky.
Until then,
Shut the fuck up
Ignore Boris
Listen to the scientists
Save lives!
Simple
Hi Andy.
The original input was at around 20:30pm.
Over the next hour or so, I received no emails, which is still the case at 22:06.
So I cannae be bathird.
@Robert Louis
Those that want a totally unmoderated platform then they have to share it with those they virulently oppose, there is no happy medium.
It’s hard to tell if twitter are politically motivated or just taking the easy way out, if a group can organise a pile on of complaints they just ban it as it causes them less hassle.
Robert Louis
had you down for an idiot – thanks for confirming.
sucker
Graeme @ 6.43pm
I think this might be the interview you mean. GRA question is asked after 33.18mins
Graeme Sorry forgot to post the link! link to youtube.com
@ Robert Louis 9.46pm
All social media has its share of nut jobs and whackos. The reason why platforms like Gab are probably necessary is the kind of behaviour we’ve seen on twitter banning folk like Stu and Glinner while doing nothing about other accounts.
People are of course free not to join it, but there is much to be said for such federated systems. I may not like a lot of the types on Gab, but then I don’t like a lot of the pieces of work leading pitchfork wielding mobs on twitter either. The advantage of Gab is they’re not going to ban voices they don’t like.
As Paul McKenna noted in his Herald piece today:
“The problem, of course, is that some who seek to be the sentinels of free expression sometimes get choosy about applying it, depending on who’s doing the expressing.”
Lord Foulkes tweeting that Sir Keir Starmer is the socialist future and the Scots should fall back into line. Looks like Saturday is drinks day at his Lordships house, hell every day is drinks day there I think.
@Golfnut: well, she could have said that she was delighted that Alex Salmond had been acquitted of all charges by a jury of his peers and that she hoped he could now rebuild his life after a very stressful and distressing time for him and his family. How could that have compromised anything, since it’s pretty bland but polite PR-speak, in the final analysis?
Instead all we got was that the verdict “must be respected” (with the implication that his opponents would struggle to do so) and a Mayesque “This is not the time” to discuss the matter further.
The statement by the Alphabet Sisters after the trial verdict, as reported in The Sunday National, showed absolutely no respect to the man or to the verdict of the court.
It appears that the FM is content to place politics above constitutional law. Brexit isn’t simply unpalatable, it is unconstitutional.
It also appears that the FM lacks a respect for the human genome. It is not possible to support women’s rights and the proposed reform of the GRA. So the FM would also appear to be ignorant of how human rights work. This probably has something to do with why Scotland is getting pumped from both ends.
The first minister also appears to be somewhat disingenuous, as the proposed changes to the GRA transform gender to sex. This is dubious legal practice and destroys the potential for justice in Scotland.
@jfngw 10.08pm
Spot on. I actually think there is something pleasingly ironic about progressive pro-indy folk staking a claim on a corner of Gab. Not only will it drive some of the denizens there nuts, imagine the rage of the Woke Stasi not being able to burn their witches!
Sounds like a result to me!
@ Tinto Chiel.
And I would love to have heard her say just that, but I’m afraid with the Britnat media behaving the way they did during the trial and since, an inquiry and possible litigation, there is no way she could be anything other than neutral. Damned either way.
The final question at today’s UK corona briefing sort of revealed the disconnect with reality. A journo asked why it was OK to take a lunch box but not a pencil case to school (England), not a great question but the answer was even worse.
Apparently lunch boxes are private and children are unlikely to swap things from them, unlike pencil cases. Anyone who has had children and wonder why their lunch box came back with remnants of things you never put in it may disagree. Of course this was from the DCMO Jenny Harries OBE, so I can only assume she either had no children, hived them out to someone else to look after or is just willing to spout any old shite that the government wants her to, I personally go for the latter.
Sorry to brings this up, I usually zone out during the UK briefing but Gavin Williamson trying to blackmail the teachers to get back so his acquaintances can have their houses cleaned and the other plebs can be forced back to work sort of caught my attention.
@Golfnut: except, she wasn’t being neutral. Saying something polite along the lines of what I said would have been both gracious and neutral, would have respected the verdict of the court and could not possibly have compromised “an inquiry and possible litigation”.
Please don’t blame the British media for what she actually chose to say.
@Andy Ellis
The only thing that is the issue with these platforms is the lack of visibility. It’s hard to debunk the Britnats if they have cornered twitter and we are all congratulating each other on gab or mastodon.
@CamB (7.46) –
You’re right Cameron. Absolutely right. I have no expertise in those areas. I don’t doubt that they are interesting things to study but they are, essentially, abstract, philosophical. They most certainly are not ‘natural’. They’re not ‘real’. You seem to believe that they are, and that’s fair enough – if you ‘believe’ then, yes, they are actually ‘real’ to you. I accept that.
But no-one is obliged to take that stuff, or you, seriously.
If you think that I’ve joined ‘the right-wing’, I’m sure you have good reason. I believe that you believe that I’ve joined ‘the right-wing (whatever that is). And I don’t believe you are aiming to offend me by saying so. Perhaps you’re trying to help me? Save me from myself? Something like that?
Thanks all the same, but I prefer to keep on blundering away, asking daft questions and getting shite for it.
Each to their own, eh?
😉
While all this controversy goes on re- the no strategy Tories on corona virus, lets not forget these two lemons.
link to twitter.com
Ian Brotherhood
Yes, I am trying to help and I also appreciate how pompous I might sound. You appear to be dismissing social science and critical legal theory as having negligible practice value. I’m afraid that suggests you simply don’t understand what is involved in the practice of government and the design of sustainable public policy. Where as, I do.
Absolutely, each to their own opinion. But that doesn’t mean you’re entitled to your own facts. Unless your philosophical foundations and scientific position are coherent with critical realism, your way of understanding is likely to be dodgy. So you are unlikely to be able to achieve an effective solution to your problem.
I’m trying to show folk the “art of law”, supported by post-positivist social science. I’m not simply striking my ego.
sorry… stroking. 🙂
Ian Brotherhood
Btw, I’ve never taken you for a stroker Ian. 😉
The Rule of Law and Socio-Economic Justice
link to renecassin.org
@CamB –
You sound quite happy just doing what you’re doing, so I’m sure you’ll forgive me if I just mosey off and leave you to it.
Ian Brotherhood
Absatootly Ian, horses for courses. 😉
ECONOMIC, SOCIAL AND CULTURAL RIGHTS
link to lincoln.edu
It will be interesting over the next few weeks to watch the BBC report that the death rate in England falls and ignoring any rise in hospital admissions.
In another month the ONS will report a rise in death rates for other reasons.
I feel very sorry for the people of England.
I do wonder if the 77 brigade people and their types on here attacking the SNP realise the type of people they are working for
Interesting article on the governments response to covid. Its a long read but contains a lot of valuable information. It focuses on the UK govs response but it applies just as much to Scotland where we have had an even more totalitarian response, and an even more gullible population.
link to architectsforsocialhousing.co.uk
I suggest reading sections 15 and 16 if you don’t want to read all of it. It definitely has a left wing slant so the author can hardly be accused of being some science denying right winger, which certain people here are prone to doing when they see an opinion they don’t like.
I’ll take the time to read that ASH article but here’s an off-the-cuff response.
The Rule of Law in the Universal Declaration of
Human Rights
link to scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu
@bipod =
Thanks for that link.
Loads in there, will be making a copy and sharing.
🙂
CameronB Brodie please keep up the good work. You are the last of the self -taught intellectuals who posts on here.
All the theoreticians have gone Ken500 with his staccato style, Heid tracker with his mercurial wit, Thepnr with his thumping cudgel- so often he crushed a yoon argument like a baby seal.
Never forgetting the man who made the whole movement possible and discovered the fatal flaw in the treaty of 1707, Robert Pfeffers.
Only Breeks is left in his place as comment-section Alpha.
Ian Brotherhood
Yes the situation is extremely dire but I question the author’s premise that the level of threat has been exaggerated. That’s debatable, however, I’m pretty sure that a respect for international law is the way forward, particularly Treaty law.
Max Planck Yearbook of United Nations Law, Volume 11, 2007, p 359-390
Application of the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights in the Framework of International Organisations
link to mpil.de
Papko 😉
Cameron B Brodie @ 12.35
Seriously Cameron…Seriouly!!!
I’m so looking forward to the next Wings night,where you can tell all of us female Wingers why a half dozen men were the only valuable contributions to this blog these last few years….
We’ll be all ears!!!!
Liz g
I just didn’t think it polite to be critical of Papko’s description. 😉
@Bipod
Thanks for that link
Cameron B Brodie @ 1.28
Well, as any Wummin can ( and at the next Wings night we surely will ) tell ye
Polite gets ye fucking nowhere!
Every female contributor to this site deserves acknowledgement.
Please don’t get on board with anyone who will write us off….that’s not the you I know Cameron!!!
Nana
THE star
Liz g
Ok, seeing as how you insist. 😉
Though I appreciated the compliment Papko was paying me, I was aware that his(?) assessment of contributors failed to include the likes of yourself and many other FEMALE voices. The site would be much the poorer without a forceful female presence, as men and women differ bio-neurologically. The way the sexes perceive the world in subtly different, so are our evolutionary psychologies. So that means the moral judgement of men and women tend to be grounded in different values. Simples. 🙂
I hope you don’t think I’m trying to mansplain, or suggest we are defined by our biology alone.
Comparison of Cognitive Functions Between Male and Female Medical Students: A Pilot Study
link to ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Here’s some more brain science that indicates the proposed GRA reform simply isn’t compatible with a legal respect for biology.
N.B. The journal Nature isn’t helping clarity here, as they are using gender as a culturally sensative way of describing biological sex.
Gender differences in cognitive Theory of Mind revealed by transcranial direct current stimulation on medial prefrontal cortex
link to nature.com
Cameron @ 2am
That’s more like it….and no I don’t think your mansplannin…
I just think it was beyond outrageous that not one woman contributor was named,and I’m glad you noticed it :-).
If you remember….men and ( I think ) “those” men in particular were complaining that not many women commented here.
It’s certainly why I joined in…
So….if Wingers Below the Line are worth our time….then ( as I’m sure you’ll agree) we are worth acknowledgement…
🙂
Liz g
I certainly agree. I’m also certain the proposed GRA reforms are anti-democratic.
Two minds
The cognitive differences between men and women
link to stanmed.stanford.edu
Cameron B Brodie @ 2.22
I never really doubted ye my friend 🙂
Still gonnay never let ye forget tonight though…..fir at least the first 10 mins of our next Winger meet up…be warned!! 🙂
Liz g
Hopefully you’ll be able to forgive me by then, as I hope to have provided enough scientific and legal evidence to kill the GRA proposals stone dead. And hopefully encourage the SNP to codify a legal respect for biology in their constitution instead. Then we might see some positive action to defend Scotland’s legal identity. 😉
The Role of Gender Differences in the Cognitive Style of
Impulsivity/Reflectivity and EFL Success
link to core.ac.uk
Cameron B Brodie @ 2.29
Oh your already forgiven my friend 🙂
But like the song says
Girls just wanna have fun..lol…
LizG @2.14am – Spot on sister!!
I see that in terms of empty promises the Tories in England are renewing their vigour to openly call for the removal of the Welsh Assembly together with the Northern Ireland Assembly and the Scottish Parliament.
First rot the Scottish Government from within which is well underway. Secondly destroy any politicians who would be capable of restoring the SG’s push for independence, and which is why Alex Salmond and his ilk are to be taken out. Third, use Brexit and the Covid 19 emergency as an opportunity to clamp down.
Indeed, speaking on behalf of many of his colleagues Tory MP Daniel Kawczynski raged against devolution divergence: “Do we really need the massive additional expense of this Welsh Assembly? Just another layer of red tape and massive extra cost to taxpayers. I am looking forward to the day when we return to one Parliament and one policy for whole of United Kingdom.”
I fear unfortunately we shall see much more of this in the forthcoming months as the Tories move forward with their scheme to undermine the Scottish Parliament.
The mythical,most powerful, devolved parliament in the world, and then it was gone. Reinforces exactly why we now need new leadership in the SNP, and why we need it now. We are as they say at four minutes to midnight as the net closes in on us.
msdidi says:
16 May, 2020 at 10:13 pm
Graeme @ 6.43pm
I think this might be the interview you mean. GRA question is asked after 33.18mins
—————————————————————–
Yeah that’s the one thank you 🙂
I am leaving this here for anyone who might be interested.
link to twitter.com
I hop that works as I think this man might just be sane , which makes a change from all other ramblings emanating from the USA.
@ Tinto Chiel.
Sorry Tinto but your original comment attributes prejudice to the FM ‘ through gritted teeth ‘, that’s not in the article, that’s your prejudice. That is exactly the kind of prejudice I fear the msm would use against the FM had she made anything other than a simple,straight forward statement.
Latest count of confirmed COVID-19 cases worldwide at 0000 GMT, May 17: Johns Hopkins University
World: 4,629,575
U.S.: 1,466,682
Russia: 272,043
Britain: 241,461
Brazil: 233,142
Spain: 230,698
Italy: 224,760
France: 179,630
Germany: 175,752
Turkey: 148,067
Iran: 118,392
China Xinhua News,
`Hospitals in Argentina have begun to treat those suffering from #COVID19 with plasma from recovered patients.
The initiative is part of a plan from Ministry of Health, and recovered patients are being asked to donate on a voluntary basis.`
like i said they should be doing 6 weeks ago.
@Golfnut 7.59: no, it’s my judgement regarding what she said, not prejudice. I don’t accuse you of prejudice because you automatically defend her against her critics. I’ve already said that a polite, gracious but anodyne comment from her after the trial would have hurt nobody but she chose not to do it, so I drew my own conclusions.
We see things differently, which is fine.
@ Tinto Chiel.
I’ve made my point, I’ll leave it at that.
@Golfnut: indeed, me too.
@ Dorothy Devine.
Apparently Eton won’t open till September, not sure if that applies to other public schools, but its seems strange that the drive to get schools open early doesn’t apply to all educational establishments.
Golfnut
It’s the Tory way “do what I say not what I do”
Nicola seems to be making a good impression and most folk think the Scottish government are far superior than the useless lot in London.
Great and incisive picture of Bojo’s incompetent actions.They’re neverending.
Isn’t it strange how the £Trillions spent on War armaments and Trident/Faslane can be floored by a flu bug.
Another Sunday without worship for the God fearing among us.
I am sure the resident communists will be delighted.
Queue left wing nuts along any minute to tell us how important it is for them to forego God – for the greater good.
@ Ian Brotherhood.
No pelters from me. I posted a link to the Italian Parliament where the number of deaths attributed to Covid 19 is being openly challenged, but the number of excess deaths does require an explanation if they are not down to the virus, so at this point I’m personally wary of the official narrative. Having said that, lockdown is a necessary evil, the UK govs inaction over testing, tracking and isolating made lockdown an imperative. Keep on digging.
DD at 7:43
Devin Nunes will be the next US President – but not before The Good Scot gets a second term.
You can take that to the Bank.
@ Old Pete.
Despite what we read and hear in the news, statistically the Scottish Gov is coping with the ‘ crisis ‘ better than the UK gov and on average matching Europe. The UK is the outlier, but you won’t hear that, not yet anyway. Nicola is doing a good job.
ahundredthidiot
I doubt an idiot could have thought that one up for themselves. Just saying. 😉
Golfnut , that tells its own story does it not?
Golfnut says:
17 May, 2020 at 7:59 am
@ Tinto Chiel.
Sorry Tinto but your original comment attributes prejudice to the FM ‘ through gritted teeth ‘, that’s not in the article, that’s your prejudice. That is exactly the kind of prejudice I fear the msm would use against the FM had she made anything other than a simple,straight forward statement…
Hmmm… Actions speak louder than words. The Conspirators and their conspiracy is known to the FM, yet every one of them remains in their post, and even free to continue their conspiracy through channels supported by the Scottish Government, which to be kind, raises a cynical eyebrow, but no censure whatsoever coming from Nicola Sturgeon.
Plausible deniability? Hardly. Certain individuals who earn Nicola’s displeasure, such as Neal Harvey, are summarily kicked out the party for extraordinarily minor indiscretions on the eve of important elections. So what conclusions can you draw from that? One rule for some, and a different rule for others? Or might it be the FM is up to her neck in this?
These anonymous Conspirators should have been suspended, their phones and devices seized as potential evidence of criminal wrongdoing, yet they’re allowed to go about their business as normal. Not just too too slow with their lockdown, there hasn’t been any lockdown.
My last point is irrespective of whether Nicola Sturgeon is implicated in this conspiracy, or an unwitting victim of it, across any wider spectrum of Independence issues, Brexit issues, and especially issues of a constitutional nature, Nicola Sturgeon is revealing herself as a dud.
Perhaps the best result for Nicola is a deal behind closed doors with Alex Salmond that she will stand aside quietly and endorse Joanna Cherry as the new SNP Leader who can unite the SNP once the Wokists are shown the door, refocus the SNP’s drive onto a practical, hopefully constitutional, route to Independence, which also I hope, buys Scotland vital breathing space over Brexit.
That would leave the problem of the Wokists and their inevitable bitterness and histrionics. But part of that problem is that their nonsense is resonating because there is total stagnation in the Independence “campaign”. Refocused upon a deliverable Independence Campaign, nobody will care what happens to the weirdos or their anti-women agenda loitering around the car park where they belong.
Decades of political opportunism have conditioned many folk to simply not trust the authorities. This is feeding in to resistance against lock-down, which is there for reasons of public safety. So it is our moral duty to abide by the lock-down, and, at the same time, remain watchful enough to prevent abuses of power by the Establishment. Who basically can’t be trusted. 😉
link to hrw.org
Does anyone else believe if Boris Johnson had suggested injecting disinfectant Jenny Harries OBE (I’ve excluded the Dr as I have my doubts) would had said there was scientific evidence suggesting there was some merit in this approach.
Gordon Brewer on full SNP bad mode on Politics Show.
@ Breeks.
There’s not much I disagree with
you on regarding our current constitutional predicament, from 2016 I posted my own ideas of what action the Yes movement should have taken rather than relying on action from politicians. To late now,a constitutional challenge through the courts is now our only option. I disagree on the Nicola is a dud though, however disappointed, nay gobsmacked, at the political and constitutional subservience in relation to our Sovereign rights and the GRA debacle, Nicola has demonstrated without doubt throughout this crisis what real government looks like. Credit where its due.
@Breeks
If only things were that simple, do you think your solution would not lead to an explosion and the wokist becoming the friends of the MSM with everything that has happened in the last few years revealed day by day up to the next election. This infection is not going to be erased overnight but will take time and someone with a deft skill to manage it.That could be Joanna Cherry but as she is not an MSP currently it leaves it in a quandary.
There is little chance of any agreement between AS and NS, although the MSM would love it if there was. In politics you sometimes have take the best outcome you can get not the desired one, you always need to be careful with that baby when disposing of the unwanted waste.
Sinky,,,,Re BBC Brewer
It’s a repeat of last week’s show,,,and the week before that,,,care homes, care homes, care homes,, knowing that it is an easy target and one which is a world wide problem.
Care homes have been underfunded for decades, but all of a sudden, BBC Scotland have become very concerned and surprised that this under funded service is the weak link in the fight against this virus.
He is obsessed with it,,,the usual purple faced interrogation.
If only his english counterparts done the same to english ministers in charge of their care homes
Brewer, Marr and Neil,,,house jocks every one if them
Couldn’t agree more with the Breeks sentiment that a good result would be for a deal behind closed doors where Nicola Sturgeon steps gracefully aside for a Joanna Cherry for the party thereafter to unite behind a focussed independence campaign.
Most certainly the wokes and weirdos may be unhappy but with a party and a wider movement independence movement united behind an Indy campaign I totally agree that they will be left to wither on the vine in a party that will have become a cold place for them.
Sturgeon most certainly has let the side down on Brexit and independence but she otherwise has been a good First Minister. Stepping down with grace to maybe a good international job would certainly seem an appropriate legacy for her to pursue.
Alternatively, she can persist and preside over the volcano that Jim Sillars talked off only a few weeks ago. I know which one I would choose if I were the First Minister.
The past is a foreign country.
They do things differently there.
Why American life went on as normal during the killer pandemic of 1969
link to archive.is
Politics Scotland just ended.
A party political broadcast by Jackass Carlot and a go at the Scottish Government from a representative of the Scottish Care Homes representative body.
Representation from or comment on behalf of the Scottish Government – nothing, nada, zilch.
Situation normal sideline the Scottish Government as much as possible.
How the fuck does BBC Shortbread still get away with this bias?
Sweden is a foreign country.
They do things differently there.
Lockdown protesters shout ‘be like Sweden’ — but Swedes say they are missing the point
link to archive.is
Is it, or is it not a fact that the SG have not yet recruited any people to do the contact tracing work?
No particular fan of Carlaw but if that is correct, then it is a scandal and NS should be challenged on it by the media.
In recent years according to Sturgeon, she has fought three major battles.
1,,To stop Brexit
2,,To stop Boris.
3,,To stop indyRef2
She succeeded in one of those tasks
FFS Sturgeon,,,, just fuckin go,,,she is on one massive ego trip where the sound of her own voice gives her more satisfaction than fighting for Scottish Independence. That is when you know you are well past your sell by date, and it’s time to move on to pastures new
Let us get on with the fight, led by someone who eats, drinks and sleeps Independence.
Sturgeon has massive delusions of grandeur and self importance.
A view more and more of us are seeing.
This leads to frustrations, anger and splits,,,all caused by one person’s selfish journey “to the top”.
Sturgeon has a new plaque above the fireplace in Bute House, and it reads:-
“Fuck you, I’m alright”
.
Scotland needs to get its own media outlets why are the Scottish Government putting up with this absolute trash that bbc puts out, brewer, campbell, smith, fraser, taylor etc,etc,etc when Scotland finally get away we’ll send them down south to where really they should be because they certainly don’t speak up for Scotland, how can they call themselves journalists, journalists are supposed to be unbiased give both sides a say, their just a bunch of unionist lackeys acting a part their nothing but actors playing a part for their bbc unionist masters, a bunch of lying, sleekit, hams.
I wonder if that was one of the missing paintings behind the sniveling house jock Carlaw,
HMRC should investigate,
`A collapsed company headed by British Nationalist Jackson Carlaw is at the centre of a mystery surrounding 22 missing works of art. The firm’s private records reveal ownership of 50 pieces as investments, including paintings – but only 28 have been recovered, according to Ernst and Young, the administrator.`
Just a reminder that the successor to Nana’s Links, an esoteric and wide-ranging daily collection of links of interest to indy supporters, is alive and well at:
link to indyref2.space
Sturgeon is verging on dictatorship.
She will not listen to reason
She will not listen to anyone
It’s her way, or it’s the highway
She is surrounded by yes men and women (not Indy Yes men and women)
Can you name one person in the hierarchy of the SNP who will question any of her decisions?
Meanwhile, the massive Yes Movement has been kicked not into the long grass, but to the top of Ben Nevis, where they are out of sight and out of mind.
This lets Sturgeon and her Wokists carry out their weirdo ideas for a Scotland stuck in a union with england,,,, and just to rub salt into the wounds,,,out of the EU.
@ Pete.
The recruitment process only stated a couple of weeks ago. Applications close on the 22nd of May, Ffs. This is a massive recruitment program. Have you ever had any experience of the recruitment process, criminal checks etc.
Are you as dishonest as Carlaw.
@Rm,
broadcasting isn`t devolved,
everything broadcast has to go through the filter of the Brutish State,
and if the Brutish State don`t own it (BBC,Channel 4) they supply the licenses.
Michael Gove wants the teachers and the non fee paying children to go over the top in the June offensive (he would probably have liked it to be the 6th but that unfortunately turned out to be a Saturday).
But they should not worry, any deaths will no doubt be recorded and a plaque will be presented to every school with the names of the fallen, Death is Life.
Some good news – Graham Linehan’s Twitter account has been ‘unfrozen’. That was a full week he was out. The wokies are going a wee bit tonto about it all, as you’d expect.
Now, will Twitter reinstate Rev’s accounts?
Thanks for this, bipod:
bipod wrote on 16 May, 2020 at 11:56 pm:
“Interesting article on the governments response to covid. Its a long read but contains a lot of valuable information. It focuses on the UK govs response but it applies just as much to Scotland where we have had an even more totalitarian response, and an even more gullible population.
link to architectsforsocialhousing.co.uk
I suggest reading sections 15 and 16 if you don’t want to read all of it. It definitely has a left wing slant so the author can hardly be accused of being some science denying right winger, which certain people here are prone to doing when they see an opinion they don’t like.”
@ Golfnut on 17 May, 2020 at 11:27 am:
He knows finewell, he just didn’t reckon on you, or anyone else for that matter, coming back at him with that sort of response. Either that or he’s blasting off again before thinking. 😉 lol
I wonder if the Pro-Lockdown folks on here would support a stricter form of house arrest for any or all of the following conditions;
A citizen who refuses to download the App and/or submit their personal mobile for tracking purposes.
A citizen, who after being informed of having come into contact with a known COVID infected person, refuses to self isolate for 14 days (or 7 if asymptomatic) at home.
A citizen who shares a residence with healthy others and refuses to self-isolate away from that household – even if their Local Authority provides them with a Hotel room to do so.
Under any or all of those considerations – would you endorse arrest and incarceration of said person(s) in a prison type facility (to stop them removing themselves) until the required period has been exceeded?
sorry….I meant to say ..’under any or all of those conditions – ‘
@Rm
Technically STV is a Scottish company but you would be hard pressed to find much outside news that it makes, apart from the stuff which it does for the BBC which seems more than it makes for ITV England. It’s not all down to the location but the ownership.
STV has practically been frozen out of making ITV England productions but I suspect is still tied to buying ITV England programmes. ITV England is now basically a two centre operation, Manchester and London, the rest have been basically wiped out. It is even worse for NI & Wales they now effectively have no commercial channel.
@Breeks 9:46am
I agree with the gist of your comment.
A leadership election should force candidates to explain at least –
(a) How I’m going to get independence for Scotland.
(b) How I’m going to undo the damage done in the last few years.
I don’t want to see another coronation or another SNP leader kow-towing to Westminster as First Minister.
Have you ever seen Pete and Carlaw in the same picture?
Thought not.
Pees in a pot! Sorry peas in a pod.
What’s the difference between Sturgeon and Joanna Cherry?
Answer-Joanna Cherry could fight for Scottish Independence,,,,,annnnd,,,,lead Scotland down a completely different road to that of England when it comes to dealing with the Corona Virus.
It actually is possible to handle two major political events and the same time.
Sturgeon just chooses to ingore one of them.
Millennium says:
17 May, 2020 at 11:26 am
Sturgeon is verging on dictatorship.
She will not listen to reason
She will not listen to anyone
It’s her way, or it’s the highway
Sturgeon is dealing with a serious crisis affecting every country in the world right now. How she deals with it and the public perception of how she deals with it will impact enormously on the level of support for independence when we come out of lockdown into the ‘new normal’, whatever that is.
In the meantime, the wokists are unable to keep a low profile and seem to be constantly shooting themselves in the foot. As this is an internal SNP matter with a relatively low news profile now, during the pandemic, is probablhy the ideal time to tackle it head on – by attacking and exposing the loonies at the forefront of the ‘movement’, not by attacking the party generally.
We have the ability to come out of this with the wokists damaged and marginalised and with the SNP strengthened and the potential YES vote in the 60% range.
I know from conversations with friends and clients that during this pandemic many ‘soft NO’s have come over to YES and a grudging respect for Sturgeon. It would be a disaster if we were to come out of this and throw all the progress that Boris has been making for us away, so let’s ca canny.
Sturgeon will come out of this with a great reputation, but if she does not immediately move to implementing the next steps to Indy then it is certainly possible that it is time for someone like Joanna Cherry to step up to the plate . . . but let us see what the mainstream party does in the run-up to Holyrood 2021 before the bathwater is carelessly emptied.
It is not, in my very so humble opinion, the time to destroy the SNP, to dismiss a leader whose performance in this crisis is doing nothing but good for our cause.
The anti-lockdown nutters jumping on this crazy bandwagon to further their sturgeon-loathing agenda are, AFAICS, of precisely zero use to the movement. Still, I guess it keeps them at home on their keyboards, so that is a bonus.
@Millenium
No she couldn’t because we don’t have control of the money, no matter what the Scotgov leader does they are tied to what WM allocates them in cash. Giving people the idea we can just do as we want is disingenuous, until we are independent we can do no more than tinker at the edges. We could not have even closed the schools without it causing major financial issues in Scotland.
cid:2434FD8D-C3FC-4C44-8D49-D3DB7A3377E4
blob:null/5c65d2ff-8bce-491b-b6e7-1a7a71bf0522
Often we hear the ting Greece is a basket case of disorganisation
They are so so wrong
Look at this and see how well they dealt with covid19 long before us and most other countries
link to eody.gov.gr
jfngw…..how right you are
The Scottish government cannot even close its border with England or stop flights coming into Scotland without England’s permission
STV has its offices in London and is controlled from London
As is BBC Scotland
The English government have got a patronising, conning way of dealing with their under paid service personnel, they simply call them “Heroes”.
And the gullable english fall hook line and sinker for it.
They then wheel out a Royal wedding, a Royal speech, or a Royal baby.
It works every time.
And believe it or not, Boris has started using it on their school teachers.
One of his Ministers actually called school teachers “the new heroes in the fight against this virus”
So ladies and gentlemen, pencil in another night other than a Thursday, for an 8 o’clock clap for our Hero Teachers.
If the english teachers can’t see they are getting taken for mugs, then they deserve everything they get, which could very well be the Corona Virus.
All of you complaining about lockdown and the government’s caution.
Go out. What’s stopping you. Go out. Get close to a’body. Visit a care home. Have a hug with a like-minded stranger. Go on. You can have as much exercise as you want. Walk where you want.
Go on. Nothing stopping you. Go on.
A hundredthidiot…..yes yes and yes I would support those actions
BUT only if the statistics show that Scotland is not winning the fight against covid19 so there would have to be continued increases in daily deaths across Scotland and levels of hospital admissions that show isolation is paramount.
Obviously we don’t want to enforce such measures if we are beating covid19 without them
some thoughts on England venturing out of lockdown.
link to eurofree3.wordpress.com
ahundredthidiot says:
17 May, 2020 at 9:31 am
“Queue left wing nuts along any minute to tell us how important it is for them to forego God – for the greater good.”
What on earth did god ever do for us?
…or are you more worried about what he is going to do to us?
link to thebricktestament.com
Golfnut 11.27
I understand that England has already got thousands signed up and trained all ready to go.
Prof Linda Bauld of Edinburgh Uni states that the SG were very slow to the table.
Needs to be put to NS.
jfngw 12 10
The point I was making was that Joanna Cherry could take Scotland down a different path from england,,,as Sturgeon has done,,,,,and also fight for Scottish Independence, at the same time.
Something Sturgeon doesn’t seem to be able to do
That was the point I was making
I am well aware of the constraints that are on Scotland at the moment, but it doesn’t mean you give up the fight for Independence,,,, which Sturgeon stopped doing a long time ago.
A hundredthidiot……We cannot arrest people for refusing to isolate whilst at the same time allowing people to fly into our airports and then travel wherever they want to by whatever means they want to across the U.K.
the buses and trains are still running Hyde park London and other parks full of people how can we arrest people in those circumstances ?
In Greece people were not allowed out of their home unless they had a permit saying they could leave this was done in other countries
People had to get food etc delivered
Supermarkets all closed
If t goes out of control here or lasts too long the same conditions may be applied here
Katherine Hamilton
12.23
I do.
@ ahundrethidiot.
I’m pro lockdown until test, track and isolate is in place.
I won’t be signing up to any app that potentially can be used by government or outside sources to access personal information.
The rest of your comment appears slanted towards negativity regarding TTI, and you may personally believe such action as a continuation of state control and manipulation. The alternative to TTI is of course allowing the virus to infect the population, accept the casualties and build ‘ herd immunity’ if that is at all possible with this virus.
However if you accept that TTI is the next step, what would be the alternative to ‘enforced’ isolation for those refusing to self isolate.
@Katherine Hamilton
If i thought that I could just not give a shit I would. No thanks, no vax or tracking app or contact tracing for me. If i die I die. We are not going to get that choice though, are we? Because there are enough scared lunatics out there todemand totalitarianism to make them feel safe
Millennium…..NS days she is not actively fighting for independence right now
BUT …being on Twitter and tv everyday Boeing praised for her reports everyday
is the best Scottish independence campaigning you are ever likely to see
because people across the political divide are praising her , not all , but many many are
Far and wide
Maintaining the “ I’m not prepared to be political in these critical times “
is working well
I do not believe for 1 second that this virus is any more dangerous to me than flu. Ive probably already had it. Its science to quarantine the sick and vulnerable. Its tyranny to quarantine the healthy. Fuck Covid-1984 and fuck the tyranny that rides in with it
I will use the track and trace app
It’s stupid to worry about being tracked and traced by your mobile phone
It’s the phone that gets tracked and traced
You are only tracked and traced if you have your phone with you
they can already do that if they want to
If you don’t want anyone to track and trace you
leave your phone at home switch it off
If you have a smart meter in your house it already tracks your use of electrical goods
If you switch your kettle or washing machine on etc it knows you are at home
It continually sends data back to the electrical company
So they know when you are most probably at home and when you are not
Could be someone else at home switching on the kettle you could be out without your phone
If you don’t want people to know where you are
Leave your phone at home
Location services / settings on your phone track your location whenever it’s switched on
Boris is telling us to get back to work so why does that not apply to the MPs and parliament ???
Joe….don’t be stupid
If you are young you are possibly correct you may have had it and hardly noticed
But remember , you would have been a carrier
People are dying from it
Mostly old folk right enough
But a lot in their forties and fifties too and some even younger
People who thought they would beat it but didn’t
And remember this some people are vulnerable because they have other health conditions BUT some of them do not actually know they have other health conditions
People regularly die from heart attacks for example and didn’t even know they had a heart condition there are other deadly hidden conditions people can have too
So yes I see what you mean….you personally might not be at any risk at all BUT you might well be a carrier and pass it on to a lot of people who then die
@Terrence Callachan
STV & the STV Group plc registered address is PQ, Glasgow. They may indeed have offices in London, it would be surprising if they didn’t as all broadcasting is now centred in London (always has been but even more so now than in the past). STV Productions are based in London, that’s why you see all their crap afternoon programmes on the BBC.
Joe says:
17 May, 2020 at 12:37 pm
I do not believe for 1 second that this virus is any more dangerous to me than flu.
——
If he dies, he dies eh!
link to youtube.com
terence callachan 12.34
You are falling into the same Sturgeon trap that we have all fallen into since she became leader,, she sweet talks the pants off if every single one of us, then she wins the next election with huge majority, then she waits on permission from Boris.
Round and round and round we fuckin go.
The Sturgeon merry-go-round
You will be telling me the same bullshit in the 2034 Hollywood elections.
And that is why we need new leadership,, somebody who could handle a Scotland only decisions regards the Corana Virus, but also push the Indy message.
Joanna Cherry could also be riding just as high in the Polls as Sturgeon, with us having the added bonus of having a leader who is going to fight for Scottish Independence at the first opportunity.
Unlike Devolutionist, Gradualist Sturgeon.
@Terrence Callaghan
I won’t use the government track and trace. They can only track you to a certain level just now, they can’t precisely if you are well indoors, what this adds is your contacts. This may even just be someone you happen to be standing next to, if this is a person of interest to the government then you will now become a person of interest, just in case.
You could just stop the app and disable the bluetooth if you want some privacy, then you can still take the phone with you.
Ha Ha
Thought that would animate you!
Pete – You go to care homes do you?
Joe – “If I die, I die. We are not going to get that choice are we?” Well yes YOU do. Enough of the “we”. As I said go on. Nothing stopping you. Personal freedom and all that. Go on.
Millennium 12.28pm. ‘It doesn’t mean you give up the fight for independence ‘. Exactly! It’s not stopping boris the barsteward giving up his fight for Brexit.
I see the Tories have voted to ensure there is no protection for Scottish food standards. This is just the continuation of the project they started the 80’s. Then they destroyed the production base here, now they intend to destroy the farming base.
They want to ensure when we choose independence they have done as much damage as possible to our economy, their arguments is too wee too poor and they are trying to ensure that comes to pass.
Scottish Tories vote down attempts to protect UK food standards.
link to thenational.scot
Sturgeon has removed the word “Independence” from her vocabulary.
If it wasn’t brought up in discussions by others it would never be mentioned at all.
When was the last time Sturgeon had a meaningful debate regarding Scottish Independence?
I actually can’t remember,,,and she is meant to be leader of the political wing of the Scottish Independence Movenent.
What a farce,,,she has conned the lot of us.
Wake up Scotland, or before we know it our next First Minister will be called Wilemena Bigboz,,,(real name,,,Shuggie fae Shawlands).
Jfngw 1.01pm. Will it work? I made a faraday cage/bag out of aluminium/ foil material, when I got home it still had tracked where I’d been.
Hi Joe
“I’ve probably had it already” Have you? Had an antibody test? Did you spend £100 for one of those useless internet ones? The one they’re talking about was only approved last week.
Jings, you were quick. Well done.
@Terrance Callachan
Im happy for you to live hiding under your bed with a vaccine, government tracking app and control. Im happy for you to believe what ever contrived numbers the government, media and other trusted institutions want to make up for you.
Don’t demand it for me, you spineless cowering wretch.
@ Pete.
TTI, trials begin tomorrow in Fife and elsewhere, so staff have already been recruited and trained. As usual the SG have adopted a controlled methodology in implementation before its rolled out across the rest of Scotland. I’m sure you’ll at least accept that the processes and training are tested as competent before full implementation. If you consider the shambles presided over by Westminster on previous testing or indeed anything else, I’ll stick with a few extra weeks of lockdown while the SG and NHS Scotland trial the system.
@Pete,
There are hundreds of contact tracers signed up in Scotland already. I know some of them.Certain skills and training reqd, They can only function once the track and trace all is in place. You do understand that I hope.
@Millenium
I’m not convinced NS doesn’t want independence but what she has done is tied herself up in her own legal boundaries. It’s difficult for her to now change track without it being seen as doing a u-turn. Major mistake not taking on T.May at the time and lost the initiative.
So yes it may be time for a new direction of leadership but it is not going to happen during this crisis. I don’t think the public would be forgiving if a move was made until this virus was under some sort of control.
Millennium says: a load of shite mainly.
If it did come to pass NS did step down, Millennium would then need to change username to come up with the next in line Joanna Cherry bad line or AS.
Quite predictable.
@Katherine Hamilton
Well thats the thing Katherine. We havent really had tests have we? So how come we are putting out trust in the numbers we have been told until now?
Couple that with the massive disparity in numbers of ‘infections’ globally between 1st world and 3rd world countries and we have a puzzle.
Im happy for you to be controlled. Im happy for you to take whatever shit vaccine they want to poison you with, track you, decide when you can work, who you can contact all based on numbers that had no reliable test.
Leave me out of it 🙂
Show me a ‘contact tracer’ and i’ll show you someone that needs a meeting with a rope, firm branch and a stool at midnight.
Tory dark money and it’s nefarious links.
“THE former Scottish Tory candidate at the heart of the Brexit dark money row has found himself caught up in a million pound scandal involving a bankrupted Ayrshire businessman, a convicted American fraudster, oil wells in Houston, the Old Firm, and at least 34 out-of-pocket investors.”
link to thenational.scot
Aye Aye, Pete, whatever you say
The next shambles that will unfold in few weeks.You really trust that GOVE fukwit? I wouldn’t let Gove run a tuck shop in a primary school for more than one reason.
link to independent.co.uk
@Golfnut,
Snap!! Same time too.
@Mike d
You can still be tracked if you have connection to the network, they know the masts you are connected to. But if the phone can’t receive the GPS signal then the precision isn’t as good.
Possibly the cage you built wasn’t effective for the frequency you were using, different networks use different frequencies and the cage needs to be built for it. Also if the GPS is at another frequency it may still be penetrating the cage and the phone still be tracking you to download its data when it reconnects. You would need to inspect the spec for all the different phones to know why it still tracked you.
Joe says:
17 May, 2020 at 1:17 pm
Are you happy with your jabs you rec’d as a child-maybe that’s why you’re still here , no?
Diphtheria: 1940.
Pertussis: 1950s.
BCG: 1953.
Polio: 1955.
Tetanus: 1961.
Measles: 1968.
Rubella: 1970.
MMR: 1988.
Bob Mack
1.16
Pleased to hear it, Bob
I was only going by what was reported and what Carlaw said.
Maybe someone will ask NS for confirmation.
Happy to be wrong on this if it is the case.
@Pete,
No problem.
Hi Joe
Yes I agree re testing. Not nearly good enough.
However the only nationwide testing of the general population I’ve seen in Europe has been from Spain.
60,000 people. Prevalence of the virus in the community 5%, 11% in Madrid. Circa 30,000 deaths in Spain.
Still wanna take your chances?
Oh, and don’t hang the tracers. We’ll need them.
I wish I was as brave as Joe. He has no fear of slowly asphyxiating as his lungs fill with toxic fluid. Unlike the frontline staff I know personally who have watched it happening. They are scared.
We need more Joe’s. Men of unflinching fear, and bottomless stupidity.
The trouble we have is this:
We have a group of people here who for the most part couldn’t be convinced that the SNP weren’t putting independence as their prime concern, or as much of a concern at all, despite them pretty much saying they had other priorities.
We have many here who still think Nicola Sturgeon ‘has made mistakes’ despite basically setting the benchmark for kneecapping the Scottish Independence movement that any actual Westminster asset would be proud to achieve and still maintain cover.
So trying to warn such people that their might just be people in the world who have a plan that doesn’t involve the well being of ordinary people or their legal rights is almost impossible.
We are also living in a country (among others) where when they are warned of possible shortage of the basics of living buyout all the bogroll as 1st priority. Anybody who has ever been hungry and with real supply shortages finds this fucking hysterically funny.
Basically we are dealing with a population of weak, sheltered, naive people who have had an institution or official solving every major problem they have ever had for life.
Its not all lost though. In Eastern Europe the recognise this. They lived under it. Spying neighbours, no freedoms, economic control by government, enforcement of draconian laws, secret police. This will not work there.
Better still – remember all those horrible redneck Trump supporters (me included) with their horrible guns and ‘liberty’ rhetoric that the Left have been trained fucking despise by the same media that covered the false narrative for successive wars? Well guess what? There isn’t going to be an easy big state rollover for them either.
Perhaps many Scots need a taste of what real totalitarianism is like? Not ‘muh evil English’ type either. The real shit. The stuff that being put on the table now.
There’s plenty of historical precedent. But, spin you tales of virus with a somewhat (hard to tell with no accurate tests) higher fatality rate than flu, with many doctors worldwide claiming there’s cheap medicine for and you lose your shit and demand big sugar-daddy government come in and make your playground safe again.
Its totally fucking pathetic.
Golfnut – quick point, it is TTIS (not just TTI)
S for ‘support’ – supporting the non-conformists in some form of ‘facility’. This is how we normalise enslavement in our modern society – we give it nice names so as not to spook the sheep.
As for our Terence C – you would do well to look back in history my friend – it did not end well for collaborators and facilitators, with your rush to yes, yes, yes to the criteria for locking people up.
We are being drip fed a nightmare, so that it is easier to swallow. Unless there is an open and honest re-assessment of this ‘Pandemic’ (spoiler alert – it isn’t a pandemic folks – no where near, unless I am just not seeing the bodies lying in the streets/being dragged out of homes by specialised teams)
Someone mentioned switching off Bluetooth to evade tracking – that is already being discussed as a trigger for automatic self-isolation, without grounds. The ‘criteria’ wont end there – once it is established, the goal posts WILL move – and you can forget AUOB marches for at least 2 years and Holyrood 2021 is, at best, 50/50.
And just to add – anyone arrested under law and forced into a facility to self-isolate for the designated period will obviously end up with a criminal record, probably forcing them out of their job as they are shamed in public and/or find themselves in breach of contract.
The Vaccine will come – then prove to be non effective. This is going to go on for the REST OF YOUR LIFE, so get used to it.
terence callachan says 12.34pm
“..being on Twitter and tv everyday Being praised for her reports everyday
is the best Scottish independence campaigning you are ever likely to see
because people across the political divide are praising her..”
Millennium says: 12:53 pm
“You are falling into the same Sturgeon trap that we have all fallen into since she became leader,, she sweet talks the pants off if every single one of us, then she wins the next election with huge majority, then she waits on permission from Boris.”
I agree with you both – the problem we all have – is that none of us need to be convinced of the desirability of Independence.
Unfortunately the same cannot be said for the majority of the electorate, who will ultimately make the decision for us.
If two years from now we are no further forward, it will be easy to point the finger of blame at whomsoever we deem to be responsible – there will be no shortage of candidates.
But if we fail because – We have undermined the credibility of the SNP for the sake of our own vanity OR we have permitted the SNP’s ruling class to continue to play at being government ministers and law-makers, while kicking the independence ball into the long grass.
WE WILL BE AS GUILTY AS ANYONE.
Joe @ 1:45
Excellent post.
From my experience, Lockdown extremists seem to be either working for the public sector, on 100%/80% wages to sit on their lazy arses and/or retired.
It reminds me of a couple of fatties having a big fat juicy picnic right on top of the railroad tracks calling those trying to warn them about the train coming a bunch of crazed conspiracy theorists!
They wont be laughing when their pension funds are raided (watch this space for changes to pension legislation folks…..)
ahundredthidiot says:
17 May, 2020 at 1:57 pm
Joe @ 1:45
Excellent post.
——————
I’m glad you liked it. I’m still trying to de-code it,cos it means nothing to me.
Oh look, a squirrel !
ahundredthidiot
…except they were not on the tracks, they were on the grass verge.
The train was not what they had to worry about, it was the snake that was sneaking up to bite them on the arse.
@Col.Blimp IV 1:49pm
‘If two years from now we are no further forward, …’
Some seem to be two years ahead of you.
SNP manifesto 2016 for the colonial parliament at Holyrood:
“Scotland’s future
We believe that the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people – or if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will.
We will undertake new work, starting this summer, with the aim of persuading a clear majority of people in Scotland that independence is the best future for our country”.
How did that go? Did the SNP keep their manifesto commitments?
Prior to all this I had no idea just how pejorative a term ‘anti-vaxer’ is.
So many discussions about the whole thing seem to be predicated on the notion that a vaccine, as and when it does become available for ‘the masses’, will be greeted with universal enthusiasm.
It won’t be.
It wouldn’t matter if every single one of us here was in agreement that it’s welcome, although that plainly isn’t the case. The unavoidable fact is that many people who were perfectly happy to receive, or have their children receive, all sorts of vaccinations over the years, will not accept one for this bug.
If vaccination is rolled-out as a voluntary arrangement, it won’t work. We’ve already seen that, in Ireland for example, people who arrived at airports and were instructed to self-isolate and keep in touch with authorities to inform them of their whereabouts etc simply didn’t comply – whether they were making a political statement or simply couldn’t be arsed is an unknown. Add to that the widespread awareness of/unease about the vested interests involved. Voluntary take-up won’t work.
So what then? Mandatory vaccination? Seriously?
What are the ethics involved here, CamB? You have access to all the thinking on this subject and it would surely be morally/ethically remiss of your experts to ignore such an eventuality, so please tell us – what’s the sketch when very large numbers of people refuse to have themselves and their children vaccinated? Do we wear something to warn others that we are potentially ‘unclean’? Should we be gathered in temporary camps for our own safety? Can we have an option to euthanise ourselves? Would the State help us do that if necessary?
???
Col Blind
cant even come up with his/her own analogy………
Figures, sigh…..
@Ian Brotherhood,
Are you always looking at the extreme outcomes rather than wait to see how things unfold?
It is that sort of mindset that makes people go out and burn 5G phone masts to prevent the Chinese domination of the world.
In any event, people can take vaccinations or not just now they wish, for their kids,foreign travel etc.
Some people on here seem to believe y automatically x in politics, it doesn’t. I believe T.Blair thought he was going to be seen in the same light as Thatcher when he went to war in Iraq. He misread the people and it backfired, not for him personally as he was always a devious character, but Labour could never be viewed in the same light again.
So would have forcing a referendum in 2017 worked, nobody knows, are we following the correct path now, I don’t know. It is always easy to see the mistakes in hindsight and those that claim they have the guaranteed answer are lying to you.
Jfngw 1.29pm. I just leave my phone at home now when I’m out and carry cash. No particular reason, I’m just not comfortable being watched 24/7.
@ ahundredthidiot.
We’re on to sheep now are we, I suppose that makes sense to those advocating ‘ herd immunity ‘.
@ Ian Brotherhood.
If, as suspected the scale of actual Covid deaths are overstated, how acceptable would a mandatory vaccination be.
@Ian brotherhood
The take up of the virus will depend on if there is any proven side effects. If there is none then why would they not take this one compared to the others. I’m a bit too old to make these choices now but I can’t see people with children risking their parents life to make some point about vested interests.
Also I can’t see the correlation between those not self isolating because it is inconvenient to them and not being inoculated. If it is a requirement to be vaccinated to enter a country I suspect they will comply.
Also not everyone needs to take the vaccine, just enough to keep it suppressed as with all vaccines.
I can’t go down the conspiracy route because I can’t see what the logic of it is, It can’t work in any long term scenario. Unless there is something worse coming they are not willing to divulge, e.g. climate change is worse than they are willing to admit.
@Mike d
Your flummoxing me now, why bother with a mobile phone to just use it in the house. Although if you have a sim only deal I suppose it could be cheaper than a landline call (I’m assuming you have a house internet connection, if not then fair enough).
ahundredthidiot @2:23
Ha Ha the “appeal to ignorance” strategy – how apt.
Robbo
Another fully paid up member of Capella’s Scottish Flat Earth Society (Sturgeon apologists)
You seem to come down quite heavily on contributors who don’t agree with your view of the world.
I actually believe the World is not flat.
You should have a look Robbo, it’s always good to have a look at the other side of your opinion.
Or are you just a big bad bully.
So I will continue to post my thoughts on Sturgeon’s leadership of the SNP,,,or lack of it, and quietly and politely tell you to Fuck Off ya fuckin wanker.
Ron Maclean @ 2:13 pm
If you mean that for some the Rubicon has already been crossed.
I would maintain that public perception is everything and the independence movement fighting like cats in a sack will not end well.
Those who see Nicola Sturgeon as a more immediate threat to Scotland than the British State, have in my opinion let their own vanity cloud their judgement.
We need a truce prior to the next election – The heads of the leading Wokies and a pledge that a majority at Holyrood is a mandate for Independence.
Would seem to me a fair price.
Col.Blimp IV
There’s just no way of resisting the logic of applied brick theory. 🙂
Millennium says:
17 May, 2020 at 3:22 pm
Flat earth, WTF does that shit even mean?
I thought that was a DUP belief,no?No idea what correlation to me SNP it has, but hey ho.
I don’t give two hoots what you think numnuts. I’ll say what i want. What i never do is blame all my issues on the English, like you do a lot. I’ve worked with many of them and their good people in the main.
Maybe you should have read and paid more attention to the title thread of 14/5/20 on here.
CameronB Brodie @3:36
Though it is often contradictory ,it has certainly stood the test of time.
Ian Brotherhood
Less of the attitude if you don’t mind.
ETHICS OF VACCINATIONS
link to med.nyu.edu
Joe says:
17 May, 2020 at 12:37 pm
I do not believe for 1 second that this virus is any more dangerous to me than flu.
——————————————————————
Here’s the thing Joe it’s not all about you, you could be right I’m a reletively fit 60 year old and I don’t think it’s that dangerous to me either but I have a 90 year old father and a wife who’s immune deficient and I’d really not like to lose either of them because of some selfish bastard like you who think he knows better than anyone else
Time for some public health ethics?
link to apps.who.int
And a bit more, which includes a video. 🙂
Ethics in the research response to COVID-19
link to nuffieldbioethics.org
And a bit more on the ethics of developing a vaccine.
COVID-19 and vaccine ethics: pre-empting conscientious objection
link to blogs.bmj.com
We haven’t found a means of protection from covid-19, let alone a cure. There has also been, as yet, insufficient preparation of health infrastructure and procedures to risk going full Tory.
‘It’s An Act Of Hope’: Ethics In The Covid-19 Vaccine Race
link to eachother.org.uk
In the 1950s all the schools in my area were closed because of a polio outbreak. I remember seeing children in school with a leg in calipers because they had caught polio. That disability was life long. I also remember people with pockmarked faces on account of smallpox. Relatives were hospitalised with TB.
They were the lucky ones who survived.
Trouble is, because of the success of the vaccination programme in eradicating so many terrible diseases, people have a false sense of security. Younger people have never experienced friends, relatives or contemporaries suffering from polio, smallpox and TB.
I’m not a fan of vaccines. But they are far better than the diseases they eradicate.
@ Graeme
Then stay at home with them. What, you want the world to stop spinning for you ‘selfish bastard’?
@ Capella
Its not the vaccines deary. Its the c***s who make them and the way they are made and pushed.
@Joe
Go and fuck yourself.
Jfngw 3.06pm. We have wi fi connection but no landline phone, use mobiles only, less nuisance calls also.
test.