Wings Over Scotland

Don’t get I.

Brilliant Chris.

If Scotland was Independent today it would be as if we where still living under the Westminster sytem but only worse. Stinks to high heaven.

So is this wings buying into La Sturgeon’s excuse for her heartless slaughter of drug users in Scotland?

Drug users are dying in Scotland because Nicola Sturgeon cut the budget for rehab beds (despite clear warnings not to) in order to pick a constitutional fight. With the same laws she is killing over 3.5 x as many people as are dying in England and Wales. Rehab centres in Scotland are actually selling beds to foreign patients because Sturgeon has cut the budget so much. A budget that in the grand scheme of things is tiny and was cut for political rather than financial reasons.

This sums up the whole problem with Sturgeon, rather than trying to prove independence could work by showing a better way, her tactic is to use people like drug users as cannon fodder to pick a constitutional fight. But this is what happens when you are a heartless psychopath like Sturgeon who as a new Puritan thinks people who drink and take drugs are beneath contempt.

Well done wings for buying into her lies.

This is the funniest thing any of you will see today.

link to youtube.com

(if the YouTube link doesn’t work, well… figure it out)

Nice one Chris the lack of consumptions rooms in Scotland is the fault of Sturgeon, she’s not willing to stand up to Westminster and save the lives of young Scots dying from drug addiction.

Since she became FM the drug deaths toll has risen year on year, Sturgeon as with just about everything else, promised to do something to save the lives of these young folk but she and her government have failed miserably.

It shows you how much Sturgeon cares for young Scots addicted to drugs, when she won’t dare consider defying Westminster to open drug consumption rooms to save the lives of these vulnerable young Scots. The simple fact is that Scotland’s colonial government just don’t care, the party and its agenda comes first, whilst our graveyards fill up with young Scots who could not find safety in a drug consumption room because Sturgeon doesn’t care about Scots.

@Shocked – your posts this morning demonstrate why Nicola Sturgeon desperately wants rid of the bloggers, WoS especially. They are what the vapid folk at Holyrood would call a ‘truth bomb’. (I’m thinking of Ross Greer, but there are others)

So fuckin true.

@ Republicofscotland says:

“Meanwhile Mike Russell has along winded page in the National, on why we mustn’t really argue about Scotland having a constitution until we’re independent”

See? This is what I’m saying, there’s absolutely NO plan for independence whatsoever. Everything is ‘We’ll sort that out after independence’.

Anyone serious about independence would say ‘Right. Here’s the plan, this is what we’re going for and this is what we’re going to do.’

link to bitchute.com

Striking heavy “toon” Chris.
Ian B@10.19
I was talking to a member of the plod last week, ( I’ve known them since they were a kid). I was asking them how life/work was in the central belt. They mentioned the drug death situation without going into any details, I could see the pain in their face, they were heartbroken at the situation. Dealing with avoidable death on a regular basis is not easy for anyone.
If any of you have children or grandchildren advise them to leave the UK at the first opportunity, this pebble in the puddle is FKD on so many levels that it can never be repaired.

@ Ruby

Yes I can. I would start by saying ‘yes, we want an independent Scotland and here’s the plan…’

Nobody has a plan.

Start with the currency. ‘We WILL be using the pound, the groat, the euro, the Dogecoin’ whatever.

Make a decision and stick to that and put it before the people in a multiple choice question. You can do that with every matter AND it can be done before any independence referendum.

As you know, most of the population behave like sheep, so tell them what’s going to happen, give them a choice and when the majority is in favour of Dogecoin as a currency, then nobody can argue because it’s what they wanted.

Once you have the results of these votes/questionaires, then you can press ahead with a referendum or whatever way independence is going to be delivered and you will succeed because you can tell the people that you will deliver exactly what they asked for.

At the moment, nobody knows what’s going on. All people are getting is a basic binary question, do you want Scotland to be independent, yes or no?

Nobody knows what’s going to happen if Scotland becomes independent but you can stack the odds in your favour by asking people what they want to see beforehand.

@Republicof Scotland

Consumption rooms are a red herring, with the same laws the rest of the UK have drug death levels at least 3.5x lower than Scotland and lower than countries that operate consumption rooms and lower than almost all of the Scandinavian countries we are meant to aspire to. Why? Because they have proper a rehab system where people are sent for treatment to get off drugs. We had a rehab system, Nicola Sturgeon as health minister almost shut it down to start a political fight and then when she became First Minister she basically finished the job. If you look at the deaths figures they have exploded exponentially since 2014, all thanks to Nicola Sturgeon who sees other human beings as cannon fodder to be used.

In Scotland if you have a drug problem all they do is prescribe methadone or some other heroin substitute and leave you to it, rehab is not even an option. The end result is many of them eventually die, in fact more drug users die from prescribed heroin substitutes than actual heroin. Sturgeon is actually spending our money to deliberately kill people. I bet if they didn’t even bother with heroin substitutes and did nothing less people would die. It is also arguable that minimum alcohol pricing has contributed as street fixes are cheaper than a few cans of cider so why drink when you can get even more off your head in a couple of pills…. That unfortunately may kill you.

I have friend who has a pharmacy, every methadone prescription day her prescription counter is virtually queued out the door. She says you get to know some of the people fairly well and then one week they don’t come because they have OD’d and died. There is no thought given to how to treat these people beyond keeping them out of sight and mind and then exploiting their deaths. Many in the supposed Scottish charity sector have sold out so badly to the New SNP and saint Nicola that they try or support policies that are actually killing the people these charities are meant to protect. I actually got banned from Twitter for calling out a fake drug counsellor account that was clearly run by a New SNP activist. Also the fact that Sturgeon has appointed Constance, a certified imbecile and moron who has been sacked twice for incompetence, to supposedly deal with the drug deaths crisis tells you everything.

As for people talking about a constitution, would you want a constitution written by the New SNP and a right wing moon howler like Mike Russell? Russell is so far to the right I doubt the tories would even have him. He’s the only mainstream politician I’ve ever seen try to argue for the NHS and social welfare to be abolished, the man is a complete idiot with it. So once Indy comes the problems cannot not be “sorted out after” because if the New SNP and idiots like Russell are anywhere near the decision making we are going to end up with a complete disaster. A one party state that gives the New SNP absolute power. The New SNP needs eradicated from Scottish political life and we need to start again,

Mike Russell gets it right. I’m going for a wee lie down.

“Meanwhile Mike Russell has along winded page in the National, on why we mustn’t really argue about Scotland having a constitution until we’re independent”

Well of course he does! I wouldn’t expect anything less from an useful idiot who is helping the current political fraud in control of the tetraplegic SNP to delay if not derail Scotland’s independence while keeping yes supporters on a leash.

A constitution is the first step to define what being a Scot is. It is the first step to define the procedure for nationality, for naturalisation, to define Scotland’s citizenship and who has the right to vote. It gives the opportunity to give ancestry the weight it rightly deserves in ensuring Scots, and only Scots or naturalised Scots who have sworn allegiance to Scotland, vote in its referendums and elections.

Every country that functions as a country, even colonies like Gibraltar and Maldives, that are serious about autonomy, have one and put ancestry at the core of the definition of what a citizen is and who can or cannot vote. Scotland must be the only world exception.

If we aspire to ever have a fair franchise that gives Scotland’s natives the right to self determination and to control their own country, we need that constitution. We need defined boundaries of what constitutes Scottish citizenship.

It is the lack of that constitution in my view what led us to have instead of a decent franchise in 2014 that would have secured the will of the natives, an aberration specifically designed to open the vote to individuals from outwith Scotland, purposely to balance out the vote of natives depriving them of their right to self determination.

Russell, the same as Sturgeon, clearly do not want a referendum. If they did they would have never made a mockery of democracy, they would never deny Scotland its right to self determination by embarrassingly handing vetos to Westminster and would have never let our mandate from 2016 and the ones they got after that to expire as they did.

But if a referendum they must have as their last gatekeeper to stop Scotland becoming independent, they want one where the right of self determination of the natives can be frustrated again, just as it was in 2014.

That is why in 6.5 years both, the political fraud and Russell, allegedly the constitution main person in Scotland’s government for 5 years, did absolutely nothing to progress a constitution or to improve a franchise that was proven flawed against the native Scots frustrating their right to self determination.

Russell does not want to see a constitution, particularly one where the minions of the British state in control of the SNP do not have all their fingers in the pie, because if we have a decent constitution, they will no longer have an excuse/justification to force on us more “civic nationalism” bollocks or whatever other bullshit name they come up with for the active process of undermining Scots ancestry, with a franchise that deliberately denies Scotland its self determination.

The Maldives and Gibraltar, openly British controlled territories like Scotland is, have a constitution. They define naturalisation and citizenship, who can vote and who cannot.

So why don’t we?

What is the difference between Maldives/Gibraltar and Scotland when the three are territories controlled by the British state?

Two things:

1. the predominant ancestry of the native population (British in origin rather than natural from the place itself in both the maldives and Gibraltar, and Scottish in Scotland)

2. geographic location

If The Maldives and Gibraltar where to have open franchises like Scotland is being forced to have, it would not be people from the rUK who would be likely to join in to vote to balance out the natives’ vote. It would be people from Argentina or Spain, respectively, which, self evidently, would vote actively against the interests of the British state.

If Maldives and Gibraltar had open franchises like Scotland and had the level of influx of incomers from outwith their territories at the rate Scotland does per year, Maldives and Gibraltar would have ceased to be British controlled territories an awful long time ago.

It is that strict control of the franchise and giving huge importance to the ancestry of the geographic area what Brits are relying upon to stop them becoming independent while keeping the appearance of democracy.

In Scotland we have the exact opposite situation. It is by denying the rightful importance to ancestry in our referendums and elections that we continue welded to England.

An open franchise in Scotland is leaving the door wide open for individuals from the rUK without Scots ancestry to balance out the vote of natives, which, given the abysmal political differences between Scotland and England, is wonderfully convenient for the British state. That is why we have an open franchise.

THAT external continuous interference of the British state is why Scotland needs desperately a constitution with a clear definition of Scots naturalisation and citizenship. Just like Maldives and Gibraltar have to apply the handbreak to external interference. And no, we don’t have to wait to become independent to have a constitution. Neither Maldives nor Gibraltar are independent and yet they have had one for several years. Certainly longer than Sturgeon has been in control of the SNP.

Under the political fraud in control of the SNP and her useful idiots like Russell, Scotland will never have a fair franchise until we have a constitution drafted by somebody else within the yes movement. Somebody else who has the interests of the native Scots, and not those of the British state, at heart.

But frankly, seeing how determined the political fraud and her useful idiots like Russell are to deny us a constitution, to deny us the right to Scotland’s citizenship, to deny us the importance of ancestry, to deny us self determination and to deny us a fair franchise, I am not sure we want people like these two anywhere near our Scots constitution.

Aye, the state we’re in.

And even this very day Angela Constance, Minister for Drug Policy continues to post pictures of her Doc Marten boot collection.

link to twitter.com

Continuing lack of self awareness defies belief.

Think she gives a fuck?

Me neither

FOR THOSE DOUBTERS whom FOLLOW THE MAIN POLITICAL AND MEDIA RETORIC before their fellow Scots.
It only takes a few to believe or not to believe.

1962, THE MILGRAM EXPERIMENT, YALE UNIVERSITY! PSYCHOLOGIST STANLY MILGRAM.
EXPERIMENT( S ON OBEDIENCE.
And his book OBEDIENCE TO AUTHORITY in 1974.

Well said Fred.

When you read the speeches held before Westminster set up devolved Scottish government, and the bill that followed, it can be nothing other than a method to prevent independence in Scotland, the speeches refer to independence many times,
Basicly it sets apart any direct relationship between our representatives we vote for in Scottish government,
and [ their ] ability to move in either direction to pursue independence for Scotland through that particular government or laws.

However, speech after speech and discussion after discussion in the parliament down south prior to the devolved set up still worried, what the sovereign Scot would do, if they pushed for it,

The Scottish government is not sovereign,
The people are, it is up to us.

The whole of the 2014 IndyRef campaign got bogged down with discussion about EU membership and look at where we are now!

And the new SNP complaints officer is a man who has a history of online abuse of Joanna Cherry.

link to twitter.com

I don’t know how she finds the courage to go on. Her Westminster seat is one of the 3 Scotland is losing so she won’t get selected next time even if she wants to. Just go to Alba, Joanna, don’t put yourself through this.

Ps the new complaints officer also thinks if you have ever written for or even shared WOS, you should be kicked out the SNP!

link to twitter.com

Do you really think that the SNP, labour or Tories in devolved government in Scotland are listening to any of us,
The purpose to bring down AS, CM, and all the others, to stop marches, to divide Scottish people was to stop the momentum that was gathering in the Scottish sovereign people.

“In this book, following the conventional usage of almost all democracies outside the United Kingdom, the word ‘Constitution’ refers always to a supreme law that, as a minimum: (i) defines the state; (ii) regulates its major political institutions and processes; (iii) protects civil liberties and fundamental human rights; (iv) is binding on all institutions of the state, including Parliament itself; and (v) can be amended only by a special process, usually requiring a broader consensus than that required for the enactment of ordinary legislation. The UK, in this sense of the word, has no ‘constitution’ at all and the idea of an ‘unwritten, unentrenched, unenforceable constitution’ is oxymoronic.”

From: The Introduction to ‘A Constitution for the Common Good’ by W Elliot Bulmer

Mia.
Ron Maclean.
I agree that we have to set up a method or way to distinguish indigenous Scots and naturalised Scots,
for even NS, Russel are acting as if they were not born here, as did Gordon brown who seemed to have an intense dislike for his own countrymen in exchange for British honours and financial benifits,
There are Scots in the snp whom think short term financial rewards and political status are more important to them and their immediate families than independence for their families long term,

It is going to become an important issue wether you believe you are Scottish or British first,

Luigi @ 12.01

link to bbc.co.uk

this is the ONLY article I have seen/read about Craig Murray and I found it by accident tucked away on the BBC website. Couldn’t find without going back into my history – so it is not exactly being displayed openly!

@James Che. 2:11pm

I’m not sure that I suggested we have to distinguish between indigenous Scots and naturalised Scots. I think fairness, justice and equality should be at the heart of an independent Scotland.

Britishness is not an ethnicity, it is a political ideology. One cannot be ethnically British, only ideologically British. When used to denote ethnicity it is used incorrectly to mean English i.e. Anglo-Saxon.

“PROFILE: Lord Keen of Elie QC, the tenacious lawyer who quit as Advocate General in row over Boris Johnson’s Brexit plans”

From the P&J. Are you ever right about anything, Scott?

Fred says:

“…but in the mind of many heroin users – whatever the result, either a momentary numbness from injecting heroin or dying from an overdose – it doesn’t actually matter.
Both take away the pain.”

Very sad, but also very true Fred. When death and oblivion become preferable to life. My heart bleeds for our people and for the future.

Excellent cartoon. The Queen can have an old thing she wants from the SNP Scottish government, including exemption from laws, but oh, no they cannot do anything about drug consumption, cos London ‘won’t let them’. PATHETIC.

The whiny pathetic SNP says ‘oh we can’t do anything about the drug deaths, because it is reserved to Westminster’. How utterly, utterly pathetic.

Here is what should happen; Westminster says it controls drug policy, SNP Scottish government says well, regardless their is a problem, and we will do something, and if London wants to stop us, then they will need to physically get on a train to Edinburgh to come and close the facilities down.

You stand up to bullying thuggish tories in England, you do not bend the knee. FFS, SNP, stand up to these utter, lying, racist, corrupt, thieving Tory sh*ts from England.

Force their hand. MAKE them close facilities or drug consumption rooms. Make them be the ones doing the damage, because right now, all I can see is a lot of handwringing and pathetic whining from the Scotgov. Quite rightly the people of Scotland are sick of it. Stop being so utterly, utterly servile.

Catalan freedom fighter Dolores Ibarruri (La passionara), had a well known slogan ‘better to die on your feet, than live forever on your knees’. The SNP could do with some of that fighting passion – either that or a rocket up their collective lardy a*ses. Judging by their recent pathetic behaviour, the latter option might be the most effective.

“As Advocate General, he has represented the UK Government last year when faced with legal challenges on Mr Johnson’s bid to prorogue parliament while opposition MPs hoped to debate Brexit.

Now it is the latest controversial staging post in the Brexit process which has led to him resigning, a move which is deeply embarrassing for the prime minister.”

Well, the SNP has done much for domestic environmentalism, given that it’s full of British plants.

Captain Yossarian says:
31 July, 2021 at 3:54 pm

@Scott – You’re an embarrassment.

—
Is that you Mum?

From his resignation letter to BJ…

Lord Keen saying he ”cannot reconcile the #InternalMarketBill with his obligations as a law officer”

twitter.com/mi6rogue/status/1306523456289284097

Perhaps the best way to do this is by having a long time residency period for living in Scotland,
Along with a questionnaire of some sort beforehand of any vote,

I listen and watch “Bruce Fummey, Scotland’s history tours” who is not fully descendent Scottish on both sides of his family, but in his mind and heart he is Scottish.
These are people we eliminate, while hanging on to the Scottish National Party who do nothing for us, and more against us.

It does not make any sense to keep financial ("Tractor" - Ed)s voting Scotland while we have people wanting to be Scottish, enough to march along side us. And to raise their voices for an independent Scotland. Willing to put up with the rain and the abuse for a free Scotland.

“Consumption rooms are a red herring,”

Shocked @ 12.02pm.

Shocked drug consumption rooms have been in use for thirty-years in Europe, and are now, in most part, integrated into the the system surrounding the taking of, and, the leading to treatment to reduce the individuals use of drugs.

link to emcdda.europa.eu

link to theguardian.com

“The Queen can have an old thing she wants from the SNP Scottish government, including exemption from laws”

Robert Louis @3.23pm.

Not only that Robert, the SNP government point blankly refuses to publish any of the things that the queen wanted to be exempt from in Scotland so we don’t actually know all the concession Sturgeon gave to the queen and on what.

The actions of a colonial government, led by a treacherous b*stard.

@James Che

I’m a coward so I’ll just say these are questions which should be open for consultation until a reasonable compromise acceptable to the majority is reached. Custom and practice in other democracies could be a good place to start. I hope we’re agreed that such matters are too important to be left to the current Scottish regime who, for example, won’t need a constitution because they’re incapable, by choice or by competence, of taking us to independence.

David Cameron ex-PM has been a busy boy, lobbying for Greensill, now its been revealed that Cameron also lobbied ministers for a pharmaceutical company that “won” large contracts.

It pays handsomely to keep the old pals act going once you’re out of office.

link to theguardian.com

link to opendemocracy.net

Panda Paws @1.30pm.

I’m sure I read somewhere that the SNP’s new “Complaints” officer had a go at Joanna Cherry before he took this position. Cherry is very deflated that the SNP hierarchy didn’t stand up for her when she was, and probably still is taking online abuse.

The so called “Complaints” officer, will in my view be very selective of who receives any help or rebukes.

The SNP are finished in my book its all down hill for them, May’s elections will be their last big win I think, I’ll certainly never vote for them again, and I’m sure many other folk feel the same way, and come 2026 and we’ve still had no indyref (Sturgeon will blame Johnson, or whoever is PM) many indy minded folk will dump them like a hot potato for the alba party.

But we can speed that process up a wee bit by voting for the Alba party in next years council elections.

Hard thing for Craig Murray to do BTW, voluntarily giving up ones liberty and freedom by surrendering himself to the police. It might be the most sickening thing that he’s ever had to do.

Mist001 says:
31 July, 2021 at 2:23 pm
@ Ruby

So your idea is ‘Right. We have independence. What do we do now?’

Nobody knows what money they’re going to use, nobody knows what imports and exports they have, nobody even knows where their next meal is coming from.

Your idea sounds great.

Reply

This debate you want about currency will it be a debate about what currency an iScotland will use long term or just during a transition period?

Does anyone know what imports & exports Scotland currently has?

What kind of discussion would you want regarding where the next meal is coming from. Would this involve talk of supermarkets leaving Scotland?

Could it be you would like the debate bogged down with all of the above because you don’t have a good enough argument for remaining in the Union.

Talking about currency, EU membership, borders, imports/exports just gives Unionist a means to bog down the debate.

NB The last IndyRef debate involved a hell of a lot of talk about EU membership and look at where we are now.

I think the debate should be kept simple.

The only thing that needs to be explained is what being an independent country means for those who don’t understand the term.

Do you understand the term Mist001?

Has ‘Sinister Dave’ been banned?

Mist001 says:
31 July, 2021 at 5:54 pm
@ Ruby

To boil it down to basics for you, imagine the situation in the following terms. One day, Scotland is part of the UK and all it’s mechanisms and whatnot, 24 hours later, Scotland is independent and is unable to rely on the rUK and it’s mechanisms and whatnot.

Reply
Can you give some examples of what you mean by mechanisms and whatnot?

You keep avoiding my questions. I asked if you wanted the currency debate to involve what currency iScotland would use long term or just during a transition period.

“Where you were born doesn’t/shouldn’t come into it”

I couldn’t disagree more. For every single other country in the world where you were born, where your parents were born and how longer you have lived in the country “does come into it” as a fundamental part of your citizenship as “it does come into it” for every other colony of the British state that is not Scotland.

Why should Scotland be the exception?

Just because it has the misfortune of being one of the two colonies that share an island with England and if you set the ancestry at the root of nationhood would leave England powerless to gerrymander to its own advantage and to the detriment of the people of Scotland every election and every referendum that the people of Scotland chooses to have?

Ancestry is a very important part of a nation. Pretending that it does not not only is nonsense. It is a way of undermining nationhood and sense of belonging.

You can get an S code after working for a week in Scotland. Sorry that should never be enough to get you a vote in a referendum for the self determination of a country. Vote should be given only to those who have Scots ancestry or have naturalised as Scots and sworn allegiance and commitment to Scotland.

What kind of commitment to Scotland have those working in the MoD or in the oil rigs that come from the rUK? What kind of commitment to Scotland did all those who had a holiday home in Scotland in 2014 and that voted no because they thought that independence of Scotland might have meant for them to have to show a passport to come to their holiday homes? What kind of commitment have those foreign students that come to university for a few years with no intention to remain in Scotland after that? What kind of commitment to Scotland have those people coming from down south that see Scotland as the backyard of England and that therefore should be run by England’s politicians they choose?

Why should those who have no ancestry links, no commitment and no real attachment to Scotland as a nation be given a vote?

For as long as the political fraud persists in leaving the franchise wide open to abuse and to direct interference by the British state, the term “referendum on Scottish independence” is an oxymoron, because such franchise will ensure independence will always be the losing option.

I encourage you to take a close look at the census and look at how the population of native Scots, the natural yes voters, is being proportionally reduced year after year after year. To give you an example, from 2001 to 2011 over the total population in Scotland increased by well over 200,000 people. Of those, only 1,484 were born in Scotland. How long this trend has been going on goodness knows.

The main reason to have a referendum on independence is so the native Scots can exercise their self determination. If you use a franchise to frustrate that self determination, then the referendum itself becomes a tool to frustrate independence rather than to give a chance to choose it.

@ panda paws at 1:30 pm

“Ps the new complaints officer also thinks if you have ever written for or even shared WOS, you should be kicked out the SNP!”
I have said this about a dozen times the local convener said that posting in the Guardian/Times and Wos was NOT allowed and that was in 2015

RobertKnight@6.08
Makes total sense, if you live here, work, pay taxes, claim benefits in Scotland you get to vote in an Indy Ref.
As you say, “if not, jog on.”
As for the English moaning about not getting to vote as the UK will be changing, the rest of the EU never got a say in Brexit, which changed the EU.

@ Mia 6.51 pm

I see your disingenuous nativist narrative has leaked on to this thread too now? It was comprehensively demonstrated to you on previous threads that most recent independence referendums have used residence rather than birth criteria to decide the franchise. You and other regressive nationalists don’t feel we can convince enough “native born” Scots (and more “new Scots”) to change their minds and support independence. You therefore advocate abandoning one of the central and most positive aspects of the civic nationalism the vast majority of voters support because of a fit of pique that we lost in 2014.

Rather than “do the work” and convince the 80% of Scots who were born here to deliver independence, you and other ethnic nationalists want to either restrict the franchise to native born Scots (but usually to exclude born Scots who now live abroad…), or impose residence criteria which are unprecedented in virtually ANY other recent independence referendum. Most of those supporting the nativist narrative appear to favour 10 years or more as a qualifying period.

There is zero evidence that your proposed policy has any high level support in the SNP, Greens or Alba. It obviously has some resonance for a small group of assorted cranks and fringe folk who are vocal here, but again you’ve shown no evidence whatsoever that it commands significant support in the wider movement.

The facts don’t change: you’re advocating a regressive, politically damaging policy change which is unprecedented in any other recent independence referendums and which you can show no real demand for. Nobody is trying to shit you or the other nativists down, or say this can’t be discussed: we are however pointing out that it’s still the case that the cat majority aren’t buying the covert ( and sadly sometimes overt) blood and soil schtick, anymore than most buy the politically brain dead “we wuz robbed by the furriners” or “Scotland is a colony” mantra.

Way back before the 2014 IndyRef there was a debate at Westminster re the franchise etc for the IndyRef.

Does anyone remember that?

I thought it would be interesting to watch that debate again.

Trying to find it on Parliament TV. Can anyone help?

Mark Lazarowicz spoke in the debate.

“When I communicate, and I apologise if this is an error, I kind of communicate at a level where I assume a certain level of intelligence on the part of people listening to me”…..from Guido Fawkes. I call-in there from time to time and this was one of his favorites last week. It was one of mine too.

See if you’re a “sir” and you do the gender switcheroo thing, do you automatically become a “lady”?

This Hearts-Celtic game is dire. How can people watch games like this? Celtic look really crap. No offence intended, I’d prefer to see Celtic win the league than Rangers, they just look very amateurish. What the hell happened to Celtic?

Back to Black Summer and the zombies…

@Andy – Bloggers in general are the media outlet that many politicians fear the most because they are the least predictable. They cannot be managed and that’s what we are finding here too. Folk like to look in to see what is going-on as you won’t find that commentry in the press. WoS is overtly a pro-independence blogger and he should find life quite straightforward in SNP Scotland, shouldn’t he?

@Ruby 20:26

Way back before the 2014 IndyRef there was a debate at Westminster re the franchise etc for the IndyRef.

This, perhaps?

h t t p s ://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2012-10-15/debates/1210154000003/Referendum(Scotland)

Ruby says:
31 July, 2021 at 8:26 pm

Way back before the 2014 IndyRef there was a debate at Westminster re the franchise etc for the IndyRef.

Does anyone remember that?
—
Constitutional Law debate, 15th January 2013

Hansard version – link to hansard.parliament.uk

Parliament TV doesn’t seem to have the debate available to watch

@ Andy Ellis at 8.54

If you haven’t read the Guido Fawkes article to which Captain Yossarian was referring, it’s this one:
link to archive.fo

It’s very short, so won’t take you long.

Some late night Saturday entertainment:

link to parliamentlive.tv

Starts at 12:46:00

Enjoy!

The baby of “civic nationalism” has drowned. Very careless.

Ruby says:
31 July, 2021 at 10:34 pm

Some late night Saturday entertainment:

—
Thank you for the video link.

I don’t want Indy with this leadership. But I do want Indy. I want free from the empire old boy. Can history tell us how to get set free

Pixywine
The moon is made of cheese.

@Wull – very well written.

“the baby of civic nationalism”

Right. So now because the lead balloon of “civic nationalism”, a posh name to polish the turd of deliberately denying the Scots the importance of ancestry in the matter of citizenship and nationhood, refuses to go up on its own, along comes the word “baby” to make the massive block of lead look innocent.

Gaslighting where there ever was one.

So, if not even the word “baby” manages to put the lead turd on the air, what will be next? calling us racists for demanding a fair franchise?
Antisemites?
Civic terrorists?
Transphobes?
Unionists?
Extremist nationalists seeking radical independence?

So, what is exactly “civic” about telling the people of Scotland that you are “giving” them a chance to exercise their right to self determination when in reality what you are doing is deliberately denying them one by frustrating the chances of independence ever win?

Isn’t that more akin to fraud than to civicism?

@ Meg merrilees

ps

I got round the paywall as follows:
I googled “sunday times 01 August 2021 craig murray”

The first answer looked likely to be the right article; I right-clicked the title and chose “copy link address”.

I pasted that into archive.fo and the article had been archived an hour previously. I was then able to copy the archive link here.

All that took about 2 minutes.

Gary45. You should have some Moon on toast for your breakfast you ignorant dick head.

Dan , the SNP have a COMPLIANT officer not a COMPLAINTS officer – that’s the mistake we all made.

Indeed Dorothy.

He seems to tick all the boxes complying with current SNP doctrine, as the screenshot in Grousebeater’s tweet captures.

link to twitter.com

Have there been any studies to prove if this year’s scorchio temperatures are actually caused by global warming, or are they solely down to the amount of skipfires the SNP has lit and continues to stoke.

Listen to this clown Pete Wishart.

“Blocked for the 5th time from the ‘all’. Their new leadership has badly let down what was an essential part of the movement. They have now become an embarrassment. They threw their lot behind the 1.7% that voted for Alba. They will have to be replaced.

Replaced eh? The cheek of the man. You want a subservient puppet leadership cast in your own image don’t you Wishart? To grovel at your feet the way you grovel in Westminster before your superiors and demean Scotland in the process?

“They’ve” now become an embarrassment??? Self awareness clearly not the SNP’s strong suit.

“We ask not your counsels or your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”

Andy Ellis says:
1 August, 2021 at 8:51 am
@Scott 3.00 am

Interesting isn’t it that all these nativists who are so keen to keep Scotland for the pure bloods and exclude all the muggles aren’t so keen on including Scots born, or their children (or grandchildren) in the diaspora are they?

Sorry Andy, you’re sounding like an idiot. The issue of voter franchise is complex, important with international ramifications and needs mature debate. If you want to be taken seriously, drop puerile name calling and ridicule. This isn’t the SNP.

@ Breeks and Dorothy

Wishart and his ilk forget that Alba has several years to establish itself, at a time when the SNP is mired in corruption allegations, making appalling politically tin eared appointments like their new Complaints Officer and apparently seeing its membership and activist base hollowed out.

Come the next election, Alba should be much more firmly bedded in. That will be the time to wipe the smirk of the faces of the gradualists and troughers in the SNP. Selective political decapitation of some of the worst SNP offenders by standing candidates against them should be a priority next time. After all, if the Greens can justify standing in Holyrood constituencies so can Alba.

It’s down to Alba and new members to make the case and ensure they can attract enough support to hold the balance of power. That’s eminently achievable given the SNPs direction of travel. In so many cases it isn’t even that hard in policy terms: we just have to point at what a bourach the SNP have made of so many issues and highlight a more rational alternative, whether in drugs policy, land reform, education, pandemic response, transport and infrastructure, environment and energy policy. The list is a long one. It’s not difficult to point out the manifest failures of the gradualists and Growth Commission grey suits to propose let alone convince the broader population of a new way of doing things.

The best response to cultists like Wishart is to ignore than and look forward to his Portillo moment in future elections.

@ Breeks

If people don’t want to be called out for being regressive nativists, perhaps they shouldn’t advance regressive nativist policies? Just a thought…

Like Mia you’re coming up short actually addressing the point made. Stun us with another.

“Interesting isn’t it that all these nativists who are so keen to keep Scotland for the pure bloods and exclude all the muggles aren’t so keen on including Scots born, or their children (or grandchildren) in the diaspora are they?”

I am not quite sure what you mean with the word “nativists” and I wonder if it is yet another or your made up, deflecting “terminologies” such as your “civic nationalism”.

But coming back to the matter about the franchise, evidently the issue is complex enough to deserves thorough study and discussion.

For instance, if you look at the UK rules for citizenship, the same that for most countries around the world, ancestry is at the center of it, as it should be. In line with this, citizenship is normally passed down one generation, from parent to children born outside the UK, but not automatically passed down when it is two generations, from grandparent to grandchildren.

But you have to request that citizenship, it is not assumed.

Personally I would have no problem whatsoever if Scotland’s citizenship followed the same rules as the UK in that respect. The rest of the people interested in debating this matter can express their own valid views.

Evidently, to apply such rule Scotland needs official representation in the form of something like consulates around the world. In my opinion, these consulates should also be the places where the diaspora that is elegible for Scottish citizenship would go to formally request that citizenship, and swear allegiance to Scotland, and also is where they would go to request participation in Scotland’s referendum if they are eligible and to cast their vote. Just like other countries around the world do with their own diaspora.

Needless to say that, while I acknowledge it is more stringent than the rules for other countries around the world, I have no problem either with Scotland’s citizenship adopting the UK franchise rule whereby citizens who have lived outwith the UK for 15 years or more lose their right to vote in UK elections/referendums. I think Scotland’s franchise should have the same rule as I think it is fair.

Like with other countries around the world, I think if you are born outwith Scotland and your parent has Scottish citizenship, you have to request the citizenship and swear allegiance to Scotland, you should not get it automatically.

As you can see, differently to you, who appears to be desperate for shutting down the debate on this matter, I do think this is an issue of great importance, that is at the core of the preservation of nationhood and that therefore that deserves far more discussion, study and attention than the political fraud and her minions, in their desperate quest to derail Scotland’s independence to get a pat in the back from the British establishment grandees, are willing to offer.

Mia. For Nativist read Fascist. It’s political slander.

Andy. This will probably be news to you but ALL nationalism is essentially “blood and soil”. If it wasn’t there would be no countries. Get real. You’ll talk round the houses all day and all night but get nowhere. You’re another twopenny ha penny midwit leftist who fancies himself as an intellectual. You are endlessly fascinated by race beyond what is good for any of us.

Dorothy Devine says:
1 August, 2021 at 8:57 am

I regret that , I would rather have just voted ALBA on the list and spoilt the other.

I know the feeling Dorothy, but the weakness in strategy was the stupidity of Sturgeon’s SNP, not the the strategy of a List Party supporting an Independence Party front runner. If Independence isn’t achieved meantime, the whole List Party debate is already counting down to resurrect itself for the next Holyrood elections.

And so it should. It is a sound strategy. We are suffering another Parliament of political stalemate and atrophy because we didn’t embrace the strategy. When it comes to it, (if it comes to it), next Holyrood Elections might see the SNP having come to its senses and purged itself of charlatans and feckless leadership, and be ready to embrace and encourage the tactical principle of a List Party. Or, maybe we’ll see ALBA as the main Independence Party and whatever’s left of the rump SNP competing for list seats… and the same List Party strategy will still be sound.

I hope it won’t come to that. I hope we are much more inventive than that, and find a better way to secure Scottish Independence, and achieve it much sooner.

I hope in fact we adopt a Constitutional Approach which short circuits domestic politics and raises the stakes to International status and International Laws where Scotland’s Legal Constitutional status will I think be properly respected and legal distinctions will actually matter, unlike UK domestic legislation where Scotland’s Constitutional status is completely ignored.

If Holyrood is thus so absolutely determined to sacrifice Scotland’s Constitutional rights as a Nation upon the altar of domestic UK legislation where Scotland is regarded as little more than a parish, then Holyrood to my mind is writing it’s own ticket to obscurity and irrelevance, and the Office of First Minister is reduced to the mere mouthpiece of a Vichy Style puppet government.

It is my conclusion that ALBA is by far the smarter Party with much greater strategic acumen. ALBA understands the domesticated subservient nature of Holyrood much better than Sturgeon does.

Unlike the SNP which has embraced it’s roll as Vichy Parish Council, I firmly believe should ALBA ever secure a roll for itself in Holyrood, it would be the proverbial wolf in sheep’s clothing, using / abusing Devolution to win Independence. But ALBA has much greater ambitions to resurrect Scotland’s Constitutional Rights amongst Nations internationally. That’s a whole higher plane of political activity.

Scotland’s Independence will ultimately be established when there is International Recognition for Scotland’s Sovereignty and Sovereign Constitution. This interminable cycle of playing “UK” games, following their rules to plot a terminal crisis for the UK under domestic UK legislation the UK can rewrite at random… is going to take forever and will never lead Scotland to the door marked Exit.

I think the big risk facing ALBA, their biggest temptation, will be pressure and expectation that it fashions itself as an “alternative” party that is content to fight for representation on the Vichy Parish Council. ALBA has to stay “Big” if you follow me.

ALBA must not get bogged down fighting both Unionist Party and SNP issues in the sandbox of Holyrood. ALBA must embrace Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty and defend it’s principles to the death, not just in the UK but internationally, at the UN and Council of Europe.

Back at the beginning, do you remember Alex Salmond talking about the Declaration of Arbroath and making special emphasis of the “Community of the Realm”? The Community of the Realm IS the community of sovereign Scottish people as defined by the 1320 Declaration of Arbroath.. the rudimentary Constitution of our Nation that was recognised in its day.

The irony that is lost on some, is that we are arguing about a voters franchise for a token referendum held under oppressive domestic UK constraints and interference, when the argument is essentially our Sovereign Nation’s prerogative to determine who actually populates this “Community of the Realm”.

In terms of legal pedantry, we might actually find the detail of a modern voters franchise in 21st Century Scotland NOT being determined either by Westminster legislation OR International Law, but instead being determined by a 14th Century definition of national citizenship, and what was meant back in 1320 by the “Community of the Realm” and who qualified for membership of it.

As a member of the SNP for over 50 years, I am reluctant to leave and still hope for change. Reading today’s Sunday National, I am pushed to the limit with references to the “independence unit” within the SNP and the appointment of Ricky Taylor as Complaints Officer.

An independence party reduced to an independence unit? The party has been completely destroyed. Perhaps George Robertson was right “Devolution will kill Nationalism stone dead”.

Craig Murray: “Astonishingly, over 13,000 individuals from over 120 countries have contributed to the legal defence fund. People all over the world value freedom and realise the terrible precedents established by this case must be overturned.”

I don’t know about others, but this makes me ashamed to be Scottish and live under this rancid Holyrood fandango.

@Captain Yossarian,

` this makes me ashamed to be Scottish`,

no offence but i assumed you wern`t Scottish but either English or identified as British.

Scot – you are one of those on this site that is somehow attracted to personal attack on anyone that you think doesn’t share your views. I was born in a Glasgow tenement to Scottish parents. Not that that matters much.

Dan @9.35pm.

Thanks Dan for that link, I think its a milestone, a milestone that should open the eyes of those who still think Sturgeon/SNP will deliver an indyref, its not going to happen.

At noon TODAY:

“At Noon this Sunday Through A Scottish Prism returns with your host Roddy MacLeod joined by Iain Lawson and Mark Hirst to discuss the jailing of Craig Murray”

link to tinyurl.com

Hello hello. Anybody seeing this? Or am I in the Bermuda Triangle of Internet yet again?

I thought that health was a devolved matter to Scotland. If that IS the case, then the Scottish government would have had full control over the closure of borders in Scotland last year during the first Covid wave, under the auspicies of health.

Further, if health is truly devolved, then they can act now and take full control over ALL drug policies in Scotland, including the prevention of drug deaths.

The fact that they’re not doing so tells me that either they’re unwilling to take control for whatever reason OR health isn’t actually a devolved matter at all and their hands are tied.

From Twitter re their YouTube discussion programme:

“Due to a technical issue Through A Scottish Prism will be airing slightly after noon today.”

Breeks.
There is some wisdom in what you say to our original sovereignty.
Although you speak as if it is not recognised.
It has not disappeared, it is still with us, and is still recognised by politicians,
It can be read in Margaret thatchers book, it was discussed by many politicians on the lead up devolution, it was said even by NS in the early days, and by liberal leader David Steel, and of course in in a court case, Cooper v )
It is wrote about throughout the ages and recognised.
That England’s Westminster have discussed it and feared it as a move on it, from the sovereign Scots,
The fact that in Hansard in many direct and in direct speeches.

What we have not seen is the devolved Scottish government or the SNP talking about sovereignty of the Scots as a people, a country and a nation,
Nor have we seen many Scots being aware or using their sovereignty,
As Scots, we seem to be the only ones who think it is a pile of shite, and not worth the parchment paper it was wrote on,

I join in other conversations here that may effect Scotland in a half hearted way, as over the years since first reading Robert Pheffers commentary and a few other original bloggers with deep and meaningful thoughtful contributions at that time.
I realise that the creation of the devolved government. The referendum, the section 30, the dodgy election, the Brexit issue, and Yes even covid rules and the hate crime bill . The genders issues , melt down to nothing. And mean nothing to the sovereign Scots.

At the end of the day it all amounts to wordsmithing from all politicians.
Even if other people were not so lucky as the Scots [whereby they have it wrote down] Sovereignty still lies with people

Politicians, police etc only hold their positions because we vote or consent.
And in Scotland we can back that sovereignty up in documents and history.

I pull my hair out, grate my teeth, and scream into the night about how slow and how far behind mentally (we) the Scots are to use that recognised sovereignty,
Many here go on about trying to convince to slow NOs into YES,.