The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


Poor wee Scotland

Posted on March 11, 2012 by

The Unionist parties aren’t completely stupid. While we all know that one of their core arguments against independence is that Scotland is too wee, too poor and too stupid to survive without the rest of the UK, they’re not quite daft enough to be caught coming out and bluntly saying it in those terms.

So they were faced with a tricky dilemma with the release of the latest GERS figures last week, which showed that Scotland contributed over £2bn more to the UK economy in the 2009/10 fiscal year than it got back in UK Government spending. (And that figure itself neglects a number of large discrepancies in the figures, where money considered as “Scottish spending” isn’t actually spent in Scotland at all, such as almost a billion pounds on defence alone.)

One approach is to get friendly journalists to print unchallenged quotes and then use them in your headlines. The other, not-unrelated strategy is to spin the figures in such a way that Scotland subsidising the rest of the UK somehow sounds like the exact opposite – or as the Herald’s story put it, “Labour, Tory and Liberal Democrat politicians claimed the report proved Scotland was better off within the UK.”

The job of explaining this remarkable distortion of the truth fell to the unfortunate Ken Macintosh, finance spokesman for Scottish Labour, who was shoved onto Newsnight Scotland on March 7th to explain why Scotland having more money on the plus side of its books would be a bad thing. It was a tough line to push, and poor Ken was forced to begin by trying to convince viewers that he didn’t understand the basic concept of how arithmetic works. Let’s break down his comments and see how he did, and what it tells us about the Unionist vision of Scotland, starting with his opening gambit.

“The idea that somehow you can take figures that show an £11bn deficit and say we’re better off is ludicrous.”

Well, no it isn’t, if the alternative was to have (say) a £14bn deficit rather than an £11bn one. “Better off” is a relative term, not an absolute one. Apparently if Ken Macintosh was £14,000 in debt and his bank offered to write £3000 of it off for nothing, he’d tell them not to bother as it was “ludicrous” to suggest he’d be any better off as a result. This man wants to be in control of Scotland’s budget.

“At the very least, we’re just not as badly off as the rest of the UK, we’re all drowning in a sea of debt.”

We think he means “at the very most” there. But we’re pretty sure that “not as badly off” and “better off” in fact mean the same thing. At this point, Gordon Brewer stepped in with an observation making the point that budget deficits during economic downturns are a completely normal fact of life in almost every Western democracy, and that Scotland’s was relatively modest: “But what the figures show is that Scotland would be fine as an independent country”, he suggested.

“I don’t actually. I actually think that what the figures reveal yet again is that our finances and our economies are interdependent. The Scottish and the UK economy is one, we don’t have a separate economy.”

Now, we’re not quite sure what question “I don’t actually” is an answer to there, but it seems pretty clear that the gist of Ken Macintosh’s answer to Brewer’s point is that he disagrees. That is, he thinks Scotland WOULDN’T be fine as an independent country. On further pressing from Brewer, he explained why.

“The only reason for any difference between these figures [the contribution made by Scotland to the UK Treasury and the lower amount received back in spending] is because of oil, so the idea that we should base Scotland’s future on a commodity that’s finite – I don’t think that’s right.”

We’re tempted to ask what Ken Macintosh thinks an oil-rich country SHOULD base its economy on. Perhaps the Saudis should shut down their wells and get into financial services and nail-painting salons. But the SNP’s policy, stated roughly 20,000 times since 2007, is that oil money should be used in the same way Norway uses it, ie to build a sovereign wealth fund to invest in sustainable resources for the future.

But Ken wasn’t finished explaining why Scotland was too wee and too poor to survive.

“It’s nothing to be proud of, but Scotland’s had a fiscal deficit for 25 years now, quarter of a century…”

Thanks for clearing up how long 25 years is, Ken. Your predecessor as Labour’s finance spokesman, Andy Kerr, would probably have called it a millennium.

“…we’ve repeatedly been in a situation where we’ve been relying on the UK for our spending commitments.”

Well, no. Evidently we’ve been relying on the UK to get us into debt, while sucking tens of billions of pounds out of Scotland to spend on illegal wars, nuclear weapon systems we don’t want and lining the pockets of private business with extortionate profits from PFI contracts that our grandchildren will still be paying for.

(We note in passing that that Herald story is filed, bizarrely, under “Sport > SPL > Aberdeen”, which is presumably in order to make it easier for nationalist-leaning politics aficionados to locate.)

“If you just take, for example, the rescue of the banks – “

We must admit we zoned out for a bit at that point, readers, because we’ve heard this broken old lie of a record too many times before. But we shook ourselves awake just in time to hear Macintosh’s conclusion:

“So we’d end up in a situation a bit like either Greece or Portugal or Ireland… my pension and your pension would be at risk in that situation.”

So there you have it. The official position of Scottish Labour, as explained by its finance spokesman, is that Scotland COULDN’T survive as an independent country, that we’d end up like Greece, Ireland or Portugal, and that we’d all have no pensions. (As if we’re going to have any pensions if we stay in the UK.)

That’s the size of Labour’s pride in Scotland, and the positive case for the Union, there, in all their glory. Two for the price of one – or as we imagine Ken Macintosh puts in when he angrily hands back buy-one-get-one-free offers at his local Asda (or votes against a 60% increase in apprenticeships), a terrible rip-off.

5 to “Poor wee Scotland”

  1. DougtheDug says:

    It's not really financial illiteracy on the part of Ken McIntosh, more a career decision.
    The Labour party is committed to the Union and keeping its place in the British Establishment with the resultant career path into the House of Lords, enoblement and lucrative directorships for its politicians.
    For the Labour party, any evidence that independence will be better for Scots and Scotland has to be weighed up against losing that touch of ermine at the throat and all that comes with it.
    In the light of that possible loss then any evidence which supports independence has to be obfuscated, buried or discarded in whatever manner possible, logical or illogical.

    Reply
  2. Angus McLellan says:

    To go off at a tangent, Ken Macintosh might like something on the lines of this video – link to youtu.be – only not played for laughs. Can't see that being made though.
    I suppose he'll just have to make do with the threatened TV version – see link to thescottishsun.co.uk – of Mr Kirsty Wark's bad novel instead. And maybe a rerun of Scotch on the Rocks if the BBC can find the tapes.

    Reply
  3. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    It is getting so obvious now that someone should just print off a list of the tactics, tricks and smears that the unionist camp have been using for years.
     
    Number the one to ten or so.
     
    It would save us time having to rebut them, within our own discussion groups and we could just flag them up a No 6 or or 4.5.
     
    Oiur own wee language of unionist nonsense.
     

    Reply
  4. TamD says:

    Bugger (the Panda)
    "someone should just print off a list "
    Why stop at 10, there so many of them. Paul Kavanagh is already listing them (scare stories) at Newsnetscotland. Update weekly.
    Check it oot
    link to newsnetscotland.com

    Reply
  5. Patrick Stirling says:

    Rogue Nation! sounds like a load of FUD tripe, but you should never judge a book by its cover, so I'm gonna reserve a copy at the local charity shop.

    Reply


Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.


  • About

    Wings Over Scotland is a thing that exists.

    Stats: 6,847 Posts, 1,231,830 Comments

  • Recent Posts

  • Archives

  • Categories

  • Tags

  • Recent Comments

    • Willie on The Long Walk To Freedom: “Information delayed is information denied is an apt line. But as we can see that is only one of the…Dec 8, 01:37
    • Mark Beggan on The Long Walk To Freedom: “Where did you get your professorship? Tehran. An academic versed in colonial studys would know all the aspects good and…Dec 8, 00:31
    • BLMac on The Long Walk To Freedom: “It’s about time someone in another country, eg Australia or USA revealed the names of the perjuring Alpha-Betties.Dec 8, 00:06
    • Alf Baird on The Long Walk To Freedom: ““the truth is not just being delayed. It is being denied.” Should we really expect anything different in a colony?Dec 7, 21:55
    • James on The Long Walk To Freedom: “Baiy and switch? Vote Yoon, because, you know, reasons. Nice try.Dec 7, 21:12
    • James on The Long Walk To Freedom: “Nice try, fuckwit.Dec 7, 21:08
    • Confused on The Long Walk To Freedom: “just asking. I thought I had “seen this before” somewhere and was wondering if it was new. All keep up…Dec 7, 20:31
    • GM on The Long Walk To Freedom: “John Smythe, the people assisting him and Benjamin Harrop are all on the same path but aye, what do you…Dec 7, 20:19
    • Confused on The Long Walk To Freedom: “How does this relate to https://johnsmytheinvestigations.wordpress.com/2025/10/03/foi-202500456798-selective-redactions-on-james-hamilton-correspondence/ and are you the same GM?Dec 7, 19:00
    • Dan on The Long Walk To Freedom: “Stated this a few years back, but probably need an updated version of this old article, and it would likely…Dec 7, 18:56
    • factchecker on The Long Walk To Freedom: “David, to use your image, we’re getting our faces hit with a broken bottle right now. They’ll keep getting hit…Dec 7, 18:42
    • factchecker on The Long Walk To Freedom: “Dan, I agree with you about Labour’s record in the past. I’m just suggesting the only scenario I can see…Dec 7, 18:30
    • Hatey McHateface on The Long Walk To Freedom: “There you go, factchecker, Dan says no. I’m afraid things still have to get a lot worse in Scotland before…Dec 7, 18:18
    • David Holden on The Long Walk To Freedom: “An epic article in both length and breadth. A few reads will be required but after one pass I was…Dec 7, 18:17
    • Dan on The Long Walk To Freedom: “Lolz, you maybe laid that voting initiative on jist a wee bitty too heavy. Aye, coz previously Labour in Scotland…Dec 7, 17:39
    • factchecker on The Long Walk To Freedom: “Not a fact, this time – a personal thought. NUSNP has shown itself unworthy to govern the Scottish people consistently…Dec 7, 17:08
    • Effijy on The Long Walk To Freedom: “I can’t digest such beating about the bushes, trees, and gorse. My conclusion, the SNP is rife with corruption and…Dec 7, 16:16
    • James Cheyne on The cost of failure: “Also forgot to mention the destruction of infrastructure like roads, trains, water supplies, localised businesses, NHS, and other public services.…Dec 7, 16:13
    • James Cheyne on The cost of failure: “Charles ( not the 3C one) Forgot to respond regards your comment Who will be the members of the new…Dec 7, 16:04
    • James Cheyne on The cost of failure: “Charles ( not the RC one). If there was a Scottish parliament in reality, there would be no Parliamentary union…Dec 7, 15:51
    • Morag on The Long Walk To Freedom: “We can only be grateful for people like yourself who are prepared to do this, and dogged and persistent enough…Dec 7, 15:01
    • James Cheyne on The cost of failure: “Confirmation can be found in records that it was “The Great Seal of England ” that was used on the…Dec 7, 14:04
    • Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh on The Long Walk To Freedom: “Still the dagger drips…Dec 7, 14:04
    • GM on The Long Walk To Freedom: “Thanks Benjamin. I’ll look forward to your next post.Dec 7, 13:46
    • GM on The Long Walk To Freedom: “Good work. I look forward to further information being released, eventually.Dec 7, 13:36
    • duncanio on The Long Walk To Freedom: “The process is indeed the punishment. Much kudos goes to Benjamin Harrop for his tenacity and diligence in trying to…Dec 7, 13:12
    • Ronnie on The Long Walk To Freedom: “Sir, your persistence is to be commended.Dec 7, 13:07
    • James Cheyne on The cost of failure: “The union of crowns only came into official bieng due to the articles of the treaty of union, Prior to…Dec 7, 12:41
    • Hatey McHateface on The cost of failure: “Naw, James. It’s a little known fact that many people want to pay lots more tax. That’s why they move…Dec 7, 10:23
    • Hatey McHateface on The cost of failure: “So long, Cynicus. Shame you never managed to deal with the substance of my assertion, that the son of some…Dec 7, 10:11
  • A tall tale



↑ Top