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Politics and platitudes

Posted on December 10, 2013 by

Alert readers will doubtless recall the recent shenanigans at Holyrood concerning the bedroom tax, in which Labour furiously demanded that the Scottish Government subsidised the Westminster government’s brutal attack on the poor by slashing £50m from services elsewhere, but refused to say what they’d cut to find the money.

(Although Jackie Baillie did have one memorably creative idea to achieve almost 15% of the necessary savings by travelling back in time and undoing some investment that paid for itself 20 times over.)

jabablackboard

We condemned Labour’s craven cowardice at the time, but information revealed this week casts the party’s action in, remarkably, an even worse light.

With no help whatsoever from Labour, the SNP administration had managed to find £20m from budget underspends, efficiency savings and rooting around down the back of the sofa for loose change, and earmarked it for the Discretionary Housing Payment (DHP) fund, which gives extra money to people struggling with rent as a result of the bedroom tax (and for other reasons).

The £20m – which more than doubled the total amount of DHP available – was the sum that had been requested by Shelter and other housing charities, because it’s the maximum the Scottish Government was permitted to add to the fund by Westminster rules:

“On the 3 October 2013 the Scottish Government added £20m of funding to be distributed amongst local authorities, ‘topping up’ the DHP pot to the maximum. This brings Scotland’s total DHP fund to £35.5m.”

Last month, away from the sight of the media, the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee met at Holyrood to discuss the funding. A motion at the meeting called on the committee to:

support the Scottish Government’s proposed budget transfer from the Home Energy Efficiency Programme (coupled with savings from the enterprise bodies and other budget lines) to provide support to people as a result of the impact of the UK Government’s under occupation of social housing charges (“the bedroom tax”)”

The five SNP representatives on the nine-person committee voted in favour, ensuring that the motion was carried. The two Labour MSPs present – Hanzala Malik and Margaret McDougall – and the sole Tory, Murdo Fraser, all voted against, along with the Greens’ Alison Johnstone.

As a Conservative who’s in favour of the bedroom tax, Fraser’s opposition was predictable. Alison Johnstone’s vote against was perhaps also understandable given that the savings were to come from an underspend in an energy-efficiency budget. But what conceivable excuse could Labour offer, having spent weeks screaming and shouting and demanding more money to mitigate the tax?

We were at a loss until a Labour apparatchik angrily tweeted at us last night.

kirstyd1

kirstyd2

Kirsty Darwent is a Labour councillor from Ayr, and as you can see she furiously insisted that the SNP were lying, and that the Labour MSPs had actually proposed an alternative source for the £20m instead. Naturally, given Labour’s unbroken history of failing to actually identify anything they’d cut to fund their proposals, we were a little sceptical, so we had a look at the minutes of the committee meeting.

And sure enough, Labour hadn’t been “proposing an alternate source of funding” at all. They’d simply demanded that somebody else should find one. The amended motion, which the Labour MSPs voted for along with Fraser and proposer Johnstone, said:

“The Committee is disappointed that some factors outwith the Scottish Government’s control have delayed certain aspects of the Home Energy Efficiency Programme. Nevertheless, we regret the proposed budget transfer from the Home Energy Efficiency Programme due to an underspend (coupled with savings from the enterprise bodies and other budget lines) to provide support to people as a result of the impact of the UK Government’s under occupation charge and recommends that the Scottish Government should consider using an alternative budget line given the importance we attach to tackling fuel poverty.”

And in those two paragraphs, one voted against and one voted for, we find the entire essence of Labour’s approach to opposition in the Scottish Parliament, whatever the subject: we don’t have any ideas or solutions to offer, but the ones the SNP have come up with are wrong.

Scotland – and in particular the tens of thousands of people currently engaged in desperate struggles to keep a roof over their heads through a freezing Scottish winter while Labour play cheap, cynical politics with their lives – deserves better.

.

APPENDIX

Labour For Independence press release on same topic

88 to “Politics and platitudes”

  1. handclapping says:

    Labour = not a clue.
    OT

    Reply
  2. Ken Johnston says:

    The Bain principle in action.

    Reply
  3. balgayboy says:

    FFS..just logged on only to see that picture!.. can I please take the liberty of finishing the signpost caption “Before I die I want to eat another Greggs pie”….please.

    Reply
  4. handclapping says:

    OT
    handclapping = not a clue what happened there
    Does anyone else think that Alex Rowley’s going for Cowdenbeath MSP indicates that el Gordo is going to tough it out and stand for re-election as a non-working MP?

    Reply
  5. Horacesaysyes says:

    My entry for the caption competion –
     
    ‘Live in an independent Scotland’.

    Reply
  6. Vronsky says:

    “Stand for election as a non-working MP”
     
    Hardly an original idea in the Labour Party.

    Reply
  7. MekQuarrie says:

    The Bain Principle. If the SNP propose it, Scottish Labour oppose it…

    Reply
  8. handclapping says:

    Wow. Adding that Appendix makes the whole piece now one powerful argument against JoLa, JaBa and their cohorts. If only we could force the because my granddad did lot to have to read this we would shake many into thinking about change.
     
    Once people start thinking about change, Yes wins.

    Reply
  9. “…the Scottish Government was permitted to add to the fund by Westminster rules…”
     
    Anybody else find phrases like this just a teensy bit humiliating?  Makes you despair that YES isn’t sitting at 90%+.

    Reply
  10. Moujick says:

    I’ve worked in three areas of the Public Sector and currently carry a certain amount of budget responsibility. Identifying budget underspends and then reallocating them is a constant feature of working in the public sector and that has been my experience over all of the Holyrood Governments. If you are budgeting prudently then you need to be identifying budgetary areas where there is a risk of underspend from 1 April in a financial year (and risk rating them accordingly), you need to be monitoring them from day 1, you need to be quantifying the levels of underspend where it occurs and you need to re-allocate any budgetary underspend to other budgets/projects who can spend the money prior to 31 March of the same financial year.
     
    If the Labour MSPs on this committee don’t understand this process they are not fit to hold public office.

    Reply
  11. Nation Libre says:

    Caption competition:
    “Tell the truth for once”

    Reply
  12. Les Wilson says:

    The labour hierarchy will not only know about this but ordered the MSP’s to do it anyway. So This comes straight from Ed, via Lamont. Their Mantra is that they will not agree on anything that may give the idea that the SNP are competent, as that would effect Labour as in, being useless.

    That is what Labour has become, there is NO Scottish Labour, what is left over is something crude and shambolic  which does not in any way help the Scottish people who voted for them. They are no more than Westminster’s proxies of doom.

    They ARE a disgrace to our Country and getting worse. 

    What really stings is that the SNP are levels of competence above them, in every way. They know they are in real trouble and will lie, cheat, manipulate which is of course now being seen and exposed. But they can’t stop, they have no other way to go, they are in a corner. Now, to vote against something designed to help the poorest in our society might now be the last nail in their coffin.

    I for one, really hope it is, they utterly deserve humiliation and scorn.

    Reply
  13. Illy says:

    Just for my curiosity, how many proposals from Labors own manifesto and campaign promises have the SNP proposed, and Labor opposed?
     
    And just for fun, how many of the ones that failed would have passed if Labor had ignored who proposed it?

    Reply
  14. Gillie says:

     
    Kirsty Darwent is a Systemic Family Psychotherapist.
     
    Maybe she can help explain the dysfunctional response from her own party to the Bedroom Tax.  
     

    Reply
  15. balgayboy says:

    Another entry: I hope someone can explain wtf “amelioration” means?
    Dictionary: the act of making something better; improvement.
    Oh shit… eh’ll better go then.

    Reply
  16. faolie says:

    Must have been a SLAB golden age when Dewar, McLeish and McConnell were around… 😉

    Reply
  17. Gillie says:

     
    Perhaps Kirsty Darwent can explain her own behaviour as a member of council that sent out eviction letters to families in South Ayrshire who are in rent arrears due to the Bedroom Tax.
    Why did Labour councillors, like Darwent, side with the Tories? 

    Reply
  18. Murray McCallum says:

    Listening to Nicola Sturgeon on 

     make the point that support for “Yes” is particularly strong within our poorest communities.
     
    I now realise the New Scottish Labour fundamental position – Scotland has the wrong kind of poor people!
     
    How unlucky can one country possibly be!!

    Reply
  19. Les Wilson says:

    Sorry O/T Can anyone give me a link for the SG Q&A session in Edinburgh. Supposedly live on Internet, no link found on the BBC Scotland website nor google search?

    Reply
  20. Edward says:

    Les Wilson
    here is the link

    Reply
  21. G. Campbell says:

    SG Q&A session: link to youtube.com

    “Before I die I want to contact Eleanor Bradford at BBC Scotland so that I can blame the SNP for my imminent kicking of the bucket.”

    Reply
  22. balgayboy says:

    Caption competition:
    Original song not intended with the same message but it still has the same moral impact I reckon.
     

    Reply
  23. KOF says:

    Moujick 11:18
    “If the Labour MSPs on this committee don’t understand this process they are not fit to hold public office.”
     
    I think the same can be said of the green MSP too. What’s the point in home energy efficiency if someone has no home?

    Reply
  24. Brian Powell says:

    The Labour action and the Labour tweeter reminds me of the Western Isles school refurbishment debacle.
     
    Refurbishing six schools, the plan was to farm out the work to local companies, but to ‘speed up’ the work and short circuit a parent consultation plan, the majority Labour councillors brought in a single firm from Ireland to do all the work.
     
    The effect of this was to put the bigger local companies out of business or push the effect down the chain to smaller companies because those up the chain started bidding for local work.
     
    The SNP councillors put an amendment into the decision, asking the Council  to reconsider before the contracts were approved and complete the consultation. The Council wouldn’t wait.
     
    When the knock-on effect became obvious the Council blamed the Scottish Government, saying they had taken the decision to push through the Irish firm being given the contract, although the SG wasn’t involved in awarding the contract.
     
    The Council didn’t include the SNPs amendment in the Council decision minutes. It was only after letters going from these Councillors to the Chief Executive of the Council that the amendment was eventually put in. Otherwise there would have been no proof of the SNPs concerns or what had really happened.
     
    This  was in Newsnet Scotland some months ago, unfortunately I didn’t make a copy and I couldn’t find the page again to link it. Darn! Others might have recollection of it and correct anything I might have got wrong.
     
     

    Reply
  25. CameronB says:

    Caption competition:
    “I would like to ensure there is a chance of achieving social justice for Scotland”.
     
    Oh wait, wrong party. SLab have had decades in which to prove that as a sad fact, not spin or speculation.
     

    Reply
  26. Hotrod Cadets says:

    Caption: “Retire. Unlike Scotland’s poorest people.”

    Reply
  27. velofello says:

    Kirsty Darwent, an Ayr Labour councillor. Here are some snippets from our local Going Out magazine on a report by Audit Scotland submitted to Elected Members on South Ayrshire Council for the period 2912/13. Audit Scotland is tasked to scrutinise the workings of Scotland’s 32 councils on resource management, and governance.
     
    South Ayrshire Council has £50 million banked, and persistently underspends against budgets.£6 million underspend last year.The Council’s Housing capital programme underspend is criticised, and the excessive expenditure of B&B for provision of temporary homeless accommodation noted.Audit Scotland state that the Council is not engaging with the community.
     
    The political structure of the Council is nine Conservative, nine Labour, nine SNP, and three Independents.This administration upon gaining office in 2012 resolved to exclude the SNP councillors from the decision-making process,sharing the workload among their own Party members. 
     
    Audit Scotland suggests that the Council looks at how they have distributed workloads for Elected Members and that better use of Members skills and experience is required.And viewed the Council as operating without clear priorities and direction.
     
    By excluding one third of elected members from decision making the Council certainly have chosen to not heed the wishes of the South Ayrshire electorate.

    Reply
  28. tony o'neill says:

    Sorry to be o/t.  But further to my complaint to renfrewshire councils education dept,abot st benedicts high school linnwood modern studies teacher  ad his biased once sided discussion with his  class  about the referendum.Yesterday i had a phone call from  from the education dept,who is going to see the headmaster tommorow about my complaint and who will inform me of the out come,this should be interseting to see if i get fobbed off.
     

    Reply
  29. Tattie-bogle says:

    The under pant Gnomes in action

    Reply
  30. desimond says:

    Scottish Labour in 3 lines
    “We want 10’000 apprenticeships before ratifying your SNP Budget”
    “We can give you 25000 apprenticeships!”
    “We abstain”

    Ayr – “resolved to exclude the SNP councillors from the decision-making process,sharing the workload among their own Party members. “…that sums up yir Better Together.

    Reply
  31. Ian Brotherhood says:

    ‘BIDIWT…work out how I ended up with this accent.’

    Reply
  32. Ian Brotherhood says:

    ‘BIDIWT…find the bastard who nicked the lapels off my good jacket.’

    Reply
  33. Jimbo says:

    Before I die I want to…
     
    see Labour come up with an idea or a policy.

    Reply
  34. handclapping says:

    OT ( again 🙁 )
     
    Ipsos mori – most deprived areas Yes 47% No 45%
     
    Q. Can Gideon Osborne get all of Scotland there in time for the referendum?

    Reply
  35. DaveM says:

    Nice to see The Jaikit again 🙂

    Reply
  36. desimond says:

    “Before I die I want to stop eating the chalk like its Edinburgh Rock”

    Reply
  37. david says:

    Ipsos mori – most deprived areas Yes 47% No 45%
     
    awesome
     

    Reply
  38. Brian Mark says:

    PIE SUPPERS ALL ROUND FOR LABOUR’S MSP’S!

    Reply
  39. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Well done,Tony

    Reply
  40. balgayboy says:

    oh Ed…give me the signal to tell the truth before I meet my maker…Gordon

    Reply
  41. gedboy says:

    can you put sauce on that board

    Reply
  42. Macandroid says:

    @ Brian Powell
    Is this it?
    link to newsnetscotland.com

    Reply
  43. gordoz says:

    More power to you Tony Oneill – keep us informed of outcome

    Reply
  44. Fergie 35 says:

    Before I die I’d like to;
    See wheel chair ramps fitted at Burger King

    Reply
  45. HandandShrimp says:

    The Bain Principle. If the SNP propose it, Scottish Labour oppose it…
     
    but also add it to any election manifesto/leaflet they produce.

    Reply
  46. Zxzy says:

    So your telling me, with energy bills rising, 1 in 4 Scots in Fuel Poverty and 170,000 in extreme fuel poverty the SNP couldn’t find away to spend money allocated for Fuel Poverty. When we are about to have one of our harshest winters and people are having to choose between heating or eating, the SNP honestly couldn’t figure out away to use a fuel poverty under spend for what it was for? 

    Reply
    • Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “So your telling me, with energy bills rising, 1 in 4 Scots in Fuel Poverty and 170,000 in extreme fuel poverty the SNP couldn’t find away to spend money allocated for Fuel Poverty.”

      Did you bother to read the report?

      “The Committee is disappointed that some factors outwith the Scottish Government’s control have delayed certain aspects of the Home Energy Efficiency Programme.”

      Reply
  47. balgayboy says:

    How about..I want to tell Wendy how I shafted her!

    Reply
  48. G H Graham says:

    Before I die I want to …
    “Imagine creating an edible sea stack using up all the savoury pies I’ve eaten & then compare it’s height to the Scott Monument in Edinburgh using an edible cherry picker made from butter scotch flavoured pancakes.”

    Reply
  49. Zxzy says:

    “Did you bother to read the report?
    “The Committee is disappointed that some factors outwith the Scottish Government’s control have delayed certain aspects of the Home Energy Efficiency Programme.”

    I did and your still telling me they couldn’t have found away to spend money for Fuel Poverty on Fuel Poverty given the 2016 target to eradicate it, which they will never meet if they don’t use the money, Energy Action Scotland is calling for an investigation on why this money wasn’t spent on what it was for, so its far from clear what was outwith the Governments control, never mind why the couldn’t have directed it in to other ways to tackle Fuel Poverty when they discovered the under spend.  
     
     

    Reply
    • Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “I did and your still telling me they couldn’t have found away to spend money for Fuel Poverty on Fuel Poverty”

      I don’t know. I have no idea what your suggestions would be or how difficult/expensive they’d be to implement. But as Doug notes, it’s probably fairly wise in the circumstances to focus on keeping people in houses in the first place. I’d rather live in an unheated house and have to wear three jumpers than have no home at all.

      Reply
  50. scottish_skier says:

    When we are about to have one of our harshest winters
     
    Have you been reading the Express?

    Reply
  51. handclapping says:

    I dont know what the Rev wants to run a caption competetion for. Nothing can beat it as it stands – no idea and stands there with a big grin, Look at me, no idea. And people vote for it.
     
    Still the gods like a little bit of satire; after Cara a big boy made me do it Hilton is elected for Dunfermline, the Dunfermline panto is Pinocchio.

    Reply
  52. john king says:

    Handclapping says
    “Still the gods like a little bit of satire; after Cara a big boy made me do it Hilton is elected for Dunfermline, the Dunfermline panto is Pinocchio.
    Thats absolutly true the Carnegie hall IS advertising Pinocchio   ha ha you couldnt make it up handclapping

    Reply
  53. Doug Daniel says:

    Zxzy – What’s more important: being able to heat your home, or having a home to heat in the first place?

    Reply
  54. turnbull drier says:

    O/T …
    The comments from the BT mob in the BBC article about the SG being “quizzed” concerning the white paper are as enlightening as ever…
     
    “A Better Together spokesman said all questions should already have been answered by the White Paper.”
    Yeah, talking about things is such a waste of time..  <sheesh>
     
    “However a spokesman for the Better Together campaign, which opposes independence, said the White Paper was a “work of fiction”.

    He added: “We were told in advance that the White Paper would answer all of our questions about the consequences of independence, but it did nothing of the sort.

    “Instead of facing up to the reality on currency, pensions, EU membership and more, what we got was more assertion from the SNP.

    “It’s little wonder that all the polling evidence since its publication shows that people aren’t convinced by the White Paper.”

    Scottish Labour’s finance spokesman Iain Gray added: “I don’t think it’s unreasonable for Scots to hold the SNP’s woefully lacking financial plans to account and if John Swinney thinks he’s provided enough detail to help people make a decision on which way to vote then I think he will be disappointed when it comes to polling day.””
     
    Blah, it’s all lies I tells ya, blah..
     
    As for Iain Gray.. Can someone tell me why? Just, why?

    Reply
  55. Ian Brotherhood says:

    ‘BIDIWT…be perfectly frank with you.’

    Reply
  56. Ian Brotherhood says:

    ‘BIDIWT…make one thing clear.’

    Reply
  57. Murray McCallum says:

    Surely a problem with the SG’s White Paper is that it is diverting attention towards a war against poverty rather than the Westminster favoured war against those in poverty?
     
    The media will have a problem with this as it doesn’t make for such popular TV shows.

    Reply
  58. Ian Brotherhood says:

    ‘BIDIWT…accountability, (CRUNCH)…solidarity and honesty (GRIND), the transparency and (CREEARRGK)…end of poverty (CLUNK)…challenges…way forward…’ (CLICK)
     
    KABOOOOOM!!!

    Reply
  59. Murray McCallum says:

    BIDIWT… witness the crushing of every last remnant of Scottish aspiration

    Reply
  60. Harry Shanks says:

    Ipsos mori – most deprived areas Yes 47% No 45%
     
    This is all very well and good – but it worries me.
     
    The recent Shettleston by-election turn out at 17.55% shows only too well that the most deprived people in these areas tend not to turn out to vote. Of course it will increase at the Referendum but even so…..
     
    The result  also reminds us how adept the main Unionist party is at getting those (probably elderly) postal votes in !! And we know that 65yo+ are possibly the least likely to vote YES.
     
    After a LOT of searching, I’ve found the postal ballots in Shettleston accounted for 1354 out of a total of 3783  – i.e. approx. 35%
    That cannot be right – I simply refuse to believe that 35% of the electorate who bothered to vote were physically unable to reach a polling station.
    Looking forward to September – we simply can not have a situation where the result of the Referendum appears to be determined by jiggery-pokery – and it worries me (in fact it dismays me)  that I see no sign of the SG seeking to address the issue.

    Reply
  61. Brian Powell says:

    Macandroid
     
    Thanks. Yes, it was longer ago than I remember and I was wrong the schools were new, not refurbished, though one was a replacement.
    So not a new tactic, Labour have been at this kind of misinformation for a very long time!

    Reply
  62. Zxzy says:

    Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
    I don’t know. I have no idea what your suggestions would be or how difficult/expensive they’d be to implement. But as Doug notes, it’s probably fairly wise in the circumstances to focus on keeping people in houses in the first place. I’d rather live in an unheated house and have to wear three jumpers than have no home at all.

    True though I have to take the lines of both the EAS and SCVO on this in stating:

    148. In its evidence on this proposed transfer, Energy Action Scotland described the proposal as a “bittersweet announcement” which—

    “On the one hand, the funding stays within what we could class as an anti-poverty programme, which is welcome, but on the other hand there is concern that there was an underspend at all on fuel poverty programmes, particularly when we are only halfway through the year.”119

     
    149. It also highlighted its concerns that “whatever teething problems there have been are not more serious than that, are not endemic in the system and can be addressed”.120
    150. In evidence to the Committee, SCVO questioned—
     

    “whether we are taking money away from addressing fuel poverty to put it into mitigating the bedroom tax. If so, many of the lowest earners in society will find themselves in a zero-sum game”.121

    Reply
    • Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “True though I have to take the lines of both the EAS and SCVO on this in stating:”

      Zxzy: a wee word of advice. I happened to stumble across this comment while doing something else, and manually approved it. But you’ll find most of your comments disappearing into the spam filter if you don’t stop triggering CITE tags. See point 6:

      link to wingsoverscotland.com

      Reply
  63. Training Day says:

    @Harry Shanks
     
    I agree re the postal voting – and the residency rules around voting eligibility appear also to be ‘fluid’ at best.
     
    If we lose the referendum by these means there will be hell to pay.

    Reply
  64. Ally says:

    @ Harry Shanks
     
    That cannot be right – I simply refuse to believe that 35% of the electorate who bothered to vote were physically unable to reach a polling station.
    I share your concern, but in this day & age when people (of all age groups are accustomed to doing things remotely / online – it’s not that they CAN’T reach a polling station – just choose not to.
    I am generally fit & able but, have opted for a postal vote for some time now! (Cos I’m a lazy b*****d!!!) 

    Reply
  65. Beastie says:

    In a long string of comments I found a note that sums it up best and it’s from the Rev.

    “I’d rather live in an unheated house and have to wear three jumpers than have no home at all.”

    If those are the choices, me too. I live in a Glasgow flat with single glazed windows which need upgrading which we can’t afford to do at present. It’s a wee bit chilly, but thus far the winter is relatively mild and it’s nothing a jumper can’t handle. I’m not entitled to any government assistance with this, which is fine by me, but right now if I was entitled I would be saying ‘why is this money available to me when other people are threatened with eviction over debt incurred by way of the iniquitous Bedroom Tax? Put it where it’s most needed.’ I completely understand why the Green MSP voted against this funding; she’s operating on a different set of principles and I respect that even while I disagree with it. Tory and Labour, as per usual, are operating on the standard old moan ‘if the SNP suggested it we’re against it.’ The last Tory that worked out it didn’t need to be like that was Goldie.

    I note the BBC refer to it as the ‘so called’ Bedroom Tax, but everyone else uses it without the qualification to the point where the UN Special Rapportuer (spelling? No idea…) thought it was the genuine name for it. Common usage trumps correct title. If you say under occupancy charge everyone I know goes ‘you mean the bedroom tax?’ I say call it what it is anyway; a vicious attack on those who can least afford it.

    I even heard some council rep (I forget which council) stating that yes their levels of housing rent debt had risen but ‘some people are using that as an excuse to withold payment.’ I spent a considerable length of time after wishing I could crawl through the radio waves and jump out of the microphone to rearrange the smug git’s nose.

    Reply
  66. Harry Shanks says:

    @ Ally
    I agree it’s not required to give any reason (or even any ID) to request a postal vote – that’s exactly what makes it so open to fraud.
     
    At every Declaration, it would be very illuminating to have the number of postal votes expressed as a percentage of each Candidates total votes. Similarly, in the Referendum I would like to know the percentage of postal votes for each side.
     
    The SG has oversight of the Referendum (and Local Elections too?) – steps should have been taken IMHO.
     
    As another contributor has already said – if the Referendum is lost by a figure total less than the extrapolated YES/NO percentage split of the postal vote, there should and will be uproar.  It’s not as if the suspicion over manipulation of postal votes is anything new.

    Reply
  67. Andy-B says:

    Very well done Rev.
     
    This deconstruction of the SLAB falsehood and many  others, is exactly why you’re number 1 in many peoples eyes.
     
    Your bullsih attitude to uncovering the veracity of any given event relating to independence, is admirable to say the least.
     
    As for SLAB, what can anyone say to defend them, they’d rather hinder and deride the SNP’s attempts to helps Scots, than be constructive and find solutions to very serious economic problems.
     
    Only one conclusion can be reached regarding SLAB’s approach to Scottish peopleand there economic dilemma, they don’t really care anymore, they only care about de-railing independence,a notion deeply instilled into them by there Westminster masters.  Shameful.

    Reply
  68. wee 162 says:

    @Harry Shanks
     
    Think I’ve worked at pretty close to every count in Edinburgh over the last decade or so and I’ve never noticed a significant difference in votes overall compared to postal. Where you do see a huge difference is between different polling stations, but if you get a postal vote count it tends to be pretty close to the final result percentage wise.
     
    I would also add that every party has substantial amounts of representation throughout the postal voting opening processes. And no, you don’t need ID, but you do need your signature to match the one you registered for the postal vote with (I’d actually argue that it’s easier to personate someone at a polling station than with a postal vote). If any of the political parties representatives disagree that it matches then it can be taken to a abjudicator. The vast majority leave some leeway (ie if what appears to be someone who’s probably old and has a very shaky signature to begin with they won’t be looking for it to be identical) but if they don’t then the vote will be spoiled. And the parties can’t see who the vote is for during that process.

    Reply
  69. Papadocx says:

    The more bizarre the BT diatribe becomes you would imagine any NORMAL person who lives in reality, can see this rubbish for what it is and have absolutely nothing to do with them. 
     
    The basic fact that is becoming more obvious by the day is that the unionist parties are totally devoid of any decency, morals or credibility. They are all parasites with absolutely no scruples. nothing to offer, anybody but pain, lies and deceit and a warped broadcasting system staffed by the yes men. 
     
    The system and it’s operators are rancid, utterly putrid! 
     
    We gotta get out of this cesspool. I am ashamed of any connection with Great Britain that I have had in the past.

    Reply
  70. Wingman 2020 says:

    Caption
    “Kiss a frog ugly enough to turn into my prince, Johan Lamont”
     

    Reply
  71. Better Together St Kilda says:

    Caption
    Get a name-check on the Better Together St Kilda Facebook page.

    Reply
  72. lumilumi says:

    BIDIWT… For once tell the truth. With the same smile I tell all the untruths with.

    Reply
  73. john king says:

    See my feet

    Reply
  74. Hetty says:

    how can there be a St Kilda bt page, no one lives there, or am I missing something, doh! 

    Reply
  75. Paula Rose says:

    @ Hetty
     
    That’s what I thought until I visited their page.

    Reply
  76. Ian Brotherhood says:

    ‘BIDIWT do the double-dutch with Hothersall and Cochers on the ropes.’

    Reply
  77. Ian Brotherhood says:

    ‘BIDIWT find out whether or not I’m allergic to ermine.’

    Reply
  78. Ian Brotherhood says:

    ‘BIDIWT find out about Socialism. I’ll try anything once!’

    Reply
  79. Papadocx says:

     Andy Tiernan suggests we should make allowances for MP’s failings and be willing to forgive and forget, after all they are only human.

    SLAB have sunk into a cesspool of their own creation, and just can’t stop digging. They are like lemmings charging to oblivion with passion, about the only passion they have left. They are beyond salvation. unless LFI can pick up the pieces and get conviction and passion back into the SLP (appropriately) Then labour are finished.

    The unionist SLAB agree with and will not reverse the criminal austerity that awaits us all in the event of a NO vote.  It will be to late then. The unionist  Westminster slugs will then inflict their punishment without mercy, but with a lot of feeling.

    Reply
  80. November13 says:

    Before I die I want to say something important,truthful and sincere. Ok I will settle for sincere.Yes mince pies and a ningan an a naw.

    Reply
  81. Ian Brotherhood says:

    ‘BIDIWT see the City of London, The Palaces of Westminster, Whitehall, Millbank, and the BBC HQ all sinking, in slow-motion, into the boiling horror of eternal hellfire…no, wait a minute, that’s not my script, that’s, who? Ian Brotherhood? Damn you Brotherhood! And now I’ve nearly finished this wee stick of cha..’

    Reply
  82. wee e says:

    More big fat lies.  If you watch the first 5 minutes of committee meeting of 5th November, the measure to help folk on benefits with the Council Tax — Labour & Con. voted against this too — for the fith time! They gave the same reason as the previous 4 times.  They thought Holyrood was getting above itself, that “it may be a devolution issue”. 

    John Scott, the Conservative, was “Concerned that this instrument may be ultra vires, as it appears to relate to matters which are reserved…”(quotes section & paragraphs) and “there’s a doubt that the council tax reduction is a benefit…may be a benefit” (i.e. a power reserved to Westminster.)

    Anopther bloke – who I’m presuming was Labour, coaxed to speak, said in a roundabout way that he thought it should be decided in Westminster, not Holyrood. (The other Labour one kept shtum.)

    I remember thinking at the time (a couple of weeks ago) how hypocritical it was — and how, if they were consistent, they’d have to apply this same argument to any attempt to help with bedroom tax too.

    Well, it seems they don’t feel any need to be consistent after all: any old excuse will do.

    Reply
  83. joe kane says:

    I thought there was a campaign to put up a statue of Jackie in George Square, Glasgow, in recognition of her fight against latter-day tory landlordism oppressing poor people before noticing it was the wrong Baillie.

    Given the two-faced Labour approach to helping the Tories at every turn, the timing of this campaign is exquisite – 
    Maria Fyfe: Bedroom Tax campaign should channel spirit of Glasgow’s Mary Barbour 
    link to dailyrecord.co.uk

    Reply
  84. john king says:

    November 13 says
    ” mince pies and a ningan an a naw.”

    Its JB were talking about here, shouldn’t that read 
      twa mince paes and an ingin ane an aw
    (words spoken by a translator)

    Reply
  85. velofello says:

    Talk of a statue of ScotLab Jackie Baillie in George Square is “pie in the sky”, and without substantial foundation, and that would be essential to support any bearing on the veracity of her standing…there.

    Reply


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