Politicians in uniform
Posted on
June 25, 2017 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
…are never anything to worry about.
We’re pretty sure that’s right.
>>SUB: PLS CHECK THE LAST ONE, THINK WE’VE GOT DAVIDSON TWICE
Where’s Adolf?
Peace Always
OH MY GOD! They really don’t get down in England, do they?
Neatly avoiding Godwin’s Law by not including a picture of Hitler
No tanks!
A picture I worth a thousand words.
Here’s your Masters’ thesis.
Well, I’d like to say LOL, but, it really is beyond a joke and yep, the similarities with the last one (including delusional tendencies) are disturbing…
Will she be abseiling into Ibrox on match day when they play their Armed Forces Day nonsense
The mind boggles!
Let’s not forget Sir Oswald Ernald Mosley. Wiki …
” Member of Parliament for Harrow from 1918 to 1924, first as a Conservative, then an independent, before joining the Labour Party. He returned to Parliament as Labour MP for Smethwick at a by-election in 1926, and served as Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster in the Labour Government of 1929–31. He was considered a potential Labour Prime Minister, but resigned due to disagreement with the Government’s unemployment policies. He then formed the New Party. He lost his seat at Smethwick in 1931. The New Party merged with the BUF (which included the Blackshirts) in 1932. “
… he loved a good uniform.
link to independent.co.uk
Flower of Scotland
Re not using a picture of Hitler.
Adolf NEVER as far as I am aware, wore a Wermacht, Luftwaffe or Kreigsmarine uniform, he always wore a Nazi Party uniform, or an SS one. The SS was the Nazi Party’s arm of the army.
As regards the last picture, of Kim Jung Ruth. I notice he/she is only a four star general. Why no five stars?
Seemingly in the UK it’s against military ‘rules’ too but as we know the rules do not count whenever anything Rule Britannia is to be pushed.
PS: I’m sick of Godwin’s Law which is often misinterpreted as ‘If you mention Hitler you lose.’ I don’t think Godwin intended it that way at all.
And her and her BT buddies had the temerity to plaster my area in posters of Alex salmond dressed in an African dictators outfit with the punchline “surely not?”
The last photie is a dead ringer for her.
Wonder when she’ll be awarded a couple of medals, or get a sidearm with a lanyard, they always look good, and a swagger stick of course. Does the dress uniform include the jodhpurs, boots and whip?
So much for British Army rules. Clue’s in the name, we will be told. Just like BBC.
It will probably come to down to how much Army top brass do in fact value their reputation.
There’ll be General Mayhem next!
One of the world’s greatest physicists had this to say about uniforms in this one minute clip.
He should know, his old man used to sell them for a living. Richard Feynman.
link to bbc.co.uk
Apologies for going OT but there is an interesting YouGov poll of 52609 people. So the Scottish sub sample should yield some interesting info. This caught my attention …
2015 GE SNP who actually voted split in 2017 as
SNP 71%
Labour 15%
Tories 11%
LibDems 2%
This is an important finding.
link to tinyurl.com
Completely disgusting.
I feel its just another marker on the road to help that we are on. It’s another subliminal image of power, authority, superiority, control for the feeble minded.
Two nights running on Twitter, I’ve watched convos about how and where to move to, out of UK. Scots in the Indy movement and English folk who are sickened at where we are, and what lies ahead.
Now she is a Colonel does this mean that every MSP in Holyrood must stand to attention and salute her as she enters the debating chamber?
Come to think about it it would be a) hilarious, in my view, if they did and b) hilarious watching/listening to the Conservative Broadcasting Corporation, formerly the BBC, trying to explain live on air why the MSP’s were all standing to attention and saluting her.
@Thepnr
Great clip. There’s a child who was raised the right way.
I wore that badge and uniform .
I always looked back with a little pride at The Royal Signals . Scaley backs and bleeps , we were everywhere . Largest corp by miles .
That honkin photo of Fat Bob wearing that badge has spoiled all that.
What the hell has she done to be given an Honerary role i have no idea .
Not as bad as The Marines and their links to Jimmy Saville mind you …. Just shows what wankers get these honors .
Petra and Alex (Thepnr) Great comments last article … Wings has always been a mixed bag but nowadays we have some right “strange” indi supporters on here who continually change the subject and write feckin miles of the same stuff over and over again …
And the SNP Bad stuff ??????? WTF
I hope they disband and leave us in the hands of the Yoons. Then we’ll know how good Better together really is .
Tractors everywhere . Will see Scotland on its knees and rejoice
I despair the lack of imagination and balls in this country. We invented the modern world and are world leaders in med and science . We’re floating on oil and have huge potential in other energy projects ….. but …. but …. but
You feckers who doubt have sentenced your and MY kids to serfdom to a WM and England that is the polar opposite of what Scots say they want .
YESGUY
I like the picture on twitter where Davidson is compared to Brigadier Sir Nils Olav, Colonel-in-Chief of the Norwegian King’s Guard. Only one of them is a penguin.
O/T
Sorry to butt in but has anybody read today’s Sunday Mail. Scary front page headline but no idea of the supposed details.
Ruth looks like a wannabee, likes dressing up in uniforms.
Here’s some mind-boggling uniform fetishism (sorry archive didnt work)
link to telegraph.co.uk
Always found it strange when people are awarded ‘honorary’ degrees etc. But, for those who have in some way contributed to society, some leeway is OK, if they are deserving of the highest regard, like I dunno, instigating peace or something minor like that.
Davidson has done nothing that I can think of which is deserving of anything ‘honorary’. She appears to possess little if any honour at all.
The britnat establishment relish in awarding titles and false honour to those who very often are the least worthy, the least talented and the most loyal to an old fashioned, archaic idea of empire.
Time to move on UK. Oops, what was that, brexit? Forget your modern civilisation, the UKOK is having none of it.
The Tories are now running a permanent campaign against Scottish self-determination.
In this context Davidson’s deliberate and provocative use of the symbolism of British military power can hardly be clearer.
How does this little British colonel get on with alliance with the political arm of an orange terrorist organisation which would be quite open to shooting British soldiers.
Will she have the brass neck to turn up to an armistist service
Tanks, uniforms and buffalo wrangling… I’m seeing a pattern.
Valerie says:
25 June, 2017 at 12:12 pm
‘It’s another subliminal image of power, authority, superiority, control for the feeble minded.’
totally agree. Its to give subliminal messages of strong and stable in uncertain times. Dangerous stuff.
This uniform struts around trying to convince people to give up their right to vote. This uniform would happily do away with elections/referendums because it suits their political agenda. This uniform is not a friend of democracy.
And then there’s all those uniformed blokes in the other photos.
Fat Boab played the Red Hand card to stir up opposition to indy ref 2. No cost was too high just as long as she and her massive ego/arse got to sit down with the big folk. Arlene Foster called her the “Her of the Union” Now Boab has suddenly discovered that the NI creationists don’t care much for Boab’s sexual predilection & made it plain they’re not too keen on Irish Catholics either (Boab’s partner) This should open the eyes of anyone thinking that this chancer gives a fuck about principles. She’s more disgusting than Boris Johnson
Very true, actually. There’s always been a clear line kept between politics and the armed forces, in any advanced and genuine democracy.
You definitely have got Davidson twice?
Tank Commander also a big fan of General Incompetence, Major Austerity and Private Education…ahem!
Indy Supporters are compared to Islamic Extremists
DUP tail wagging Westminster Tory dog
Orange Order parade to be shown on the BBC
Leader of the Unionist Opposition in Scotland in uniform
Andrea Ledson says Media should be more patriotic about Brexit (which was based on the vilification of ‘foreigners/immigrants)
Quantitative Easing causing Hyperinflation and potential for a ‘Great Depression’ Recession being ignored by MSM
“God Save the Queen and her Facist Regime” as The Pistols sang
Doubt ‘Bat Shit Jill’ would draw a parallel with 2017 UK and 1930s Germany though.
Seriously dangerous times
And how the British used to laugh at countries with military leaders. I wonder what odds the bookies are offering on a seat in England soon. After all she seems to be the Portillo favourite for next Tory leader, but not really feasible in a Scottish seat after EVEL.
O/T
The Sunday Herald although still claiming to be independence supporting, no longer seems to have its heart in it. Looks like the Sunday paper purchase option is reducing to zero..
Sad times indeed.
Wake the fuck up Scotland.
I’m off to deep fry a buffalo in batter.
“It’s another subliminal image of power, authority, superiority, control for the feeble minded.”
You don’t need a uniform to beat an army or gain respect…
link to imgur.com
GI Jong is too dim to understand that a uniform will never camouflage the fact that, underneath it, she is still a callous, selfish, unintelligent, bigoted, narcissistic, hateful, anti-democratic, anti-Scotland blue Tory.
Having studied the photies of the Asian Despot and the Scottish democrat, one of them seems an awfi lot more slope shouldered than the other, whatever can this mean?
Im sure the mooth might be ralated too Corporal Jones, they dont like it up them ; though as far as I know Jones was a butcher and not a member of a despot Junta!
“an interesting YouGov poll of 52609 people. So the Scottish sub sample should yield some interesting info. This caught my attention
2015 GE SNP who actually voted split in 2017 as
SNP 71%
Labour 15%
Tories 11%
LibDems 2%”
That’s not how their graphic depicts it.
link to twitter.com
“Sorry to butt in but has anybody read today’s Sunday Mail. Scary front page headline but no idea of the supposed details.”
It’s empty shite, not a single source quoted, and saying what’s been the case for months anyway.
The thing is that the news reports seem to imply that this just happened rather than on 17th April link to auldacquaintance.wordpress.com
A new fitting uniform with all the correct insignia is something that would be hard to come by without being supplied by the army. For an honorary rank you might be forgiven for wondering if a dress uniform might be more apt. Of course you’d then be entering the same farce as the get up Edward was slagged for wearing.
link to google.co.uk: if not the actual item is similar to the coat May wore after one of the terror attacks. A subtle homage to DPM in black and white. Never mind her tartan of choice being Black Watch.
Regurgitation of old news might have been excusing Davidson wearing that uniform on Armed Forces day. As far as I can tell wearing of honorary rank insignia is by agreement only so Davison should have asked permission to do so.
Given she’s on the chubby side perhaps a rank of Colonel is a piss take link to en.m.wikipedia.org
Walter Scott, homosexuality is not sexual predilection, any more than hetro is.
This is an extremely serious sobering act by Colonel Ruth and the British Army.
Picture any other Scots politico standing in that photo, in British military uniform, with no actual military job.
Colonel Nicola?
General Willie Rennie?
This is a deeply sinister act by the British Army and we should all be demanding every and anyone involved, scrap the whole thing.
Seems appropriate…
link to imgur.com
NiallD
“Tank Commander also a big fan of General Incompetence, Major Austerity and Private Education…ahem!”
Probably Corporal Punishment as well.
At FMQs she does a fair impersonation of Sergeant Bash from Robbo Wars.
@ Socrates, the missing star is the impending disa-star!
The DUP are the Taliban. Thugs getting away with murder. Total hypocrites. The Tory Royals involved in illegal wars. Killing and maiming millions of innocent vulnerable people. Greeting about their relatives. What a shower. A deceased princess loved Muslims. Spent time wandering through the landmines. Cavorted with the biggest arms dealer in the world, who obtained enough dirty money to buy a Scottish estate and Harrods. Sold Harrods to the Qataris for £Billions. Now in trouble in the region. For some people enough is never enough. They are supposed to be impartial. They cause mental health problems. Either be quiet or bow out. For some tax evading spoilt brats enough is never enough. Gals and guys like a uniform allegedly. Dressing up. In Nazi unifirms. Not nice but dim. Put a sock in it.
Having attempted a tidy up, clear out ( the willing was there:-) ) these past few days, I came across an article in the Graun, back in the day, on ‘Pomp and Ignorance’, an essay by William Hazlitt, in 1823. It’s about the monarchy, but is relevant today as well, and not just in terms of monarchy.
The last two paragraphs here:
‘There is cant among court sycophants of calling all those who are opposed to them the rabble, fellows, miscreants etc. This shows the grossness of their ideas of all true merit, and the false standard of rank and power by which they measure everything; like footmen, who suppose their master must be a gentleman, and the rest of the world are low people. Whatever is opposed to power they think despicable; whatever suffers oppression they think deserves it. They are ever ready to side with the string, to insult and trample on the weak.
There is nothing truly liberal but that which postpones it’s own claims to those of propriety- or great but that which looks outside of itself to others. All power is but an unabated nuisance, a barbarous assumption, and aggrvated injustice, that is not directed to the common good: all grandeur that has not something corresponding to it in personal merit and heroic acts, is a deliberate burlesque, and an insult on common sense and human nature. That which is true, the understanding ratifies: that which is good the heart owns; all other claims are spurious, vitiated, mischievous, false.
Class words indeed.
Captain Manning
Strong, not string.
I wonder how it will play out in NI, especially with the links between dark money for the Leave campaign, the Tories and the DUP?
NiallD says:
25 June, 2017 at 12:50 pm
Tank Commander also a big fan of General Incompetence, Major Austerity and Private Education…ahem!
Someone missing there Niall. Don’t worry though I found him for you. Here he is … Corporal Punishment!
Ken 500
Private Pyke , i think ive spelt that correctly. Phannar Phannar.
Where’s Winston?
Colonel Davidson – off to pay FB to infer some General Knowledge from your Private Information… all the better to hide the Major Facts of the Indy situation from you!
God, how could i forget Talfryn Thomas , playing the aptly named pseudonym to the mooth, Private Cheeseman.
Oh , my sides , Pvt Byke. Oh stop it .
Does anyone actually know what the purpose of this is? It seems crazy, but then I guess we’re living in crazy times.
That’s not Honorary Red Admiral Davidson trying to claim she’s a politician again is it?
Gordon Wilson ex SNP leader has died RIP
Im reminded of an old (regular) Army joke.
“Whats the difference between the TA and the ACF?” (Army Cadet force)
“The ACF has adults in charge!”
Dudley Moore LIVE: “Beethoven’s Colonel Bogey”
link to youtube.com
Peace Always
Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
A bit of zoom needed. I see a clear yellow line from middle of SNP to bottom of Labour. Just under the green strip to Labour.
Labour was the biggest recipient of lost SNP votes (apart from didn’t vote).
We know from umpteen WM elections that a lot of voters are fluid between SNP and Labour.
I take this to be reasonably good news. Implies in this case some of those thought Corbyn their best bet for WM. It may well mean they haven’t been lost to the SNP in a Holyrood context.
Rev. Stuart Campbell at 1.14
Thanks, Stu
Richardinho says:
25 June, 2017 at 1:36 pm
Does anyone actually know what the purpose of this is? It seems crazy, but then I guess we’re living in crazy times.
It is a clear endorsement of the Conservative and Unionist party, in Scotland, by the British Army.
And its a clear endorsement of the Conservative and Unionist party leader Ruth Davidson, by the British Army.
The other side of the British Army endorsement of the Conservative and Unionist party is, everyone who is not a Conservative and Unionist party voter or member, or indeed anyone at all with any actual sense, is going WTF.
This is why its a very stupid British Army act, unprecedented and extremely unusual in any Western democracy.
Its very common behaviour in dictatorships and absolute monarchies though.
Be afraid.
Next up, British Army Colonel Nigel, annoyed at British Colonel Jeremy. Welcome to UKOK politics.
link to nme.com
link to en.m.wikipedia.org
I think we can assume some are still reservists and will wear a uniform as necessary.
However, that isn’t the issue here with Davidson. She has been given an honoury rank by the army. Exactly why? What has she done to merit the recognition?
And that really does have a foul odour about it.
I’ve been reading that the post of Honorary Colonel is usually filled by a retired Senior Military Officer or a member of the Royal Family. On occasion by a member of the public such as Dan Snow, so who decided to appoint Davidson?
I also see that her regiment is a specialist Army Reserve Regiment that provides vital communications support and information to the Armed Forces, Emergency Services and Local Government Agencies in times of crisis, such as in relation to terrorist attacks and natural disasters.
Great training and position to hold right now for someone who is a main cog in the propaganda machine, don’t you think?
…………………….
And the following by Scott Allan, Haddington, was published recently in the National: ‘Letters I: How did Ruth Davidson come by her colonel role?’
”Something that concerns me, and which has yet (to my knowledge) to be covered by the mainstream media, is the process by which Ruth Davidson was appointed Honorary Colonel of 32 Signal Regiment of the Army Reserve.
It is true that the armed services act on the instructions of the government of the day, but it is not the British tradition that they are the creatures and instruments of the political party in power. Even Hitler’s generals resisted that role.
Who instigated and approved Davidson’s appointment? What was the justification given for placing an active, prominent and controversial politician as the figurehead of a military organisation?
What message is the operational commander of that unit meant to receive?
Given the sensitivity of the role of communications in national security and control, the appointment seems to be a sinister straw in the wind.”
…………………….
@ Richard Duncan says at 12:19 pm …. ”Wings has always been a mixed bag but nowadays we have some right “strange” indi supporters on here who continually change the subject and write feckin miles of the same stuff over and over again … And the SNP Bad stuff ??????? WTF ? .”
Thankfully most of us can see right through them, Richard.
………………..
Condolences to Gordon Wilson’s family.
RIP Gordon.
Aye Putin will be shittin himself at the sight of this addition to the armory , oh well i suppose she could be dropped from a great height that would flatten a few of the enemy .
This subtle subliminal message has been greeted with the laughter it deserves the might of the empire on show , f/k is that the best they can do ,or are there troops in reserve, real troops .
Colonel Tommy surely, British Army?
link to mirror.co.uk
Thankfully, I am relatively hopeful we will never put her in a place of power.
It wont be long, until she can don a certain uniform, complete with bowler hat and folded umbrella to march through Scotland and Northern Ireland with. Starting with the various villages and towns on Saturday 1st. Glasgow on the 8th and Belfast on the 12th. So Arlene called her a hero of the Union? Perhaps in her version of our future, School Children dressed as Britannia will genuflect in front of a big 400 ft Bronze Statue of her. Perhaps a trio of statues in George Square. One of them with her in a suit wearing a bowler hat complete with sash and her right arm extended to the sky clasping an unfurled umbrella. The other two statues, one with her with an rolled up trouser leg and het tit out wearing and wearing an apron. The third with her wearing a future uniform as yet undesigned. Maybe the British Frie Corp Uniform of the British Union(ist) of Fascists. complete with a red armband with a white circle complete with a black “Double Cross” Fascist emblem, with her extending a right arm, this time downwards, complete with a cocked pistol about to execute a young member of the Scottish Peoples Front. With a Giant Union Flag in the middle. Then Arlene Foster woke up.
But wouldn’t Ruthie love that. A fascist one party State, with herself as Gauleiter of North Britain. Scotland’s female equivalent of Ernst Rohm.
RIP Gordon Wilson. You were the leader of the SNP when I first cast my vote at 18 in the 1986 Strathclyde Regional elections and when I was accepted as a member of the SNP by letter dated 1st May 1987.
HandandShrimp says:
25 June, 2017 at 2:51 pm
Thankfully, I am relatively hopeful we will never put her in a place of power.
Ah but we all know First Minister/Colonel Ruth is the cunning yoon tory plan, May 9 2021. Its not that far away either and SLab would vote for the Devil, just to get the SNP out.
heedtracker says:
Yes, they know that if they can keep Scotland away from an IndyRef2 until that date, they might get a pro Union majority.
They might, they might not. My own feeling is that the Tories have peaked as the Ruth Davidson No Indy Party. From now on it’s hard Brexit from the hard Tories and they will be seen as just as toxic and anti Scottish as ever.
The YouGov poll (I mentioned above) proves there is still fluidity between SNP and Labour. In a Holyrood / IndyRef context everything is still to play for.
Still, let’s be make use of the clear mandate we have, we should have IndyRef2 BEFORE May 2021!
Is the second last one Chemical Ali? Googled that and if it was they hanged him.
link to en.wikipedia.org
We helped devastate the middle east but its all another horrifying display of just how thin the veneer of peace and civilisation really is. WW2, all over again, in hot places.
Heedtracker,
I know people on the broo without a penny to their names that voted Tory. All to keep the Union. Flags out in their Garden, King Billy no doubt on their wall. All their weans indoctrinated. That bitch would have them selling their kids as sex slaves to her business pals just to keep a roof over their heads and food on their plates. Don’t you think something akin to early 30’s Germany is starting to wake up in Scotland. People without a pot to piss in, blaming the “Other” for all their ills, voting to give up their rights to be dictated by cunts financially backed by bastards. We need Independence more desperately than ever before. Let’s do it for all our sakes. Including the, as yet unborn.
She disgusts me. She’s a tractor.
interesting video of Gordon Wilson in 1974
link to bbc.co.uk
Lots of Military at Royal Highland Show plus a prominent UK Government tent complete with Food is Great motifs next to Union Jacks.
I thought the show was to highlight Scotland’s farming produce and trust Scottish government has tent next year.
Interesting point on delayed CAP payments
Andy Wightman MSP?Verified account @andywightman 23h23 hours ago
More
Hypocrites. Was NFUS that demanded historic payments for longer & more complex scheme. Were warned of poss delay.
Try getting a Tory MSP farmer to admit he got his payments on time.
link to twitter.com
Someone has submitted a FOI request
link to whatdotheyknow.com
bugsbunny says:
25 June, 2017 at 3:11 pm
Heedtracker,
History does keep repeating. Its a neo fascist thing though, mostly. The right love a good war, or three, keeps the troops busy, the plebs rally to the fleg.
Look at Scandinavia, the right pretty much died out there after WW2. Since then, extremely different life chances and experiences for all Scandinavians, compared to say teanGB.
Red and blue Tories like Ruth will always be drawn to violence and war. Look at Crash Gordo’s two £14+ bn aircraft carriers being built in Fife, all to deliver UK death and destruction to people who’ve never meant us any harm but might well win his own constituency for SLab.
Over in Norway, one of the world’s most successful ship building nations, they’re building the future of shipping,
link to phys.org
Fuck knows what Westminster’s got planned for Fife, when they do finish their latest floating death machines.
@galamcennalath says:
25 June, 2017 at 12:11 pm
“there is an interesting YouGov poll of 52609 people. So the Scottish sub sample should yield some interesting info. This caught my attention …
2015 GE SNP who actually voted split in 2017 as
SNP 71%
Labour 15%
Tories 11%
LibDems 2%
This is an important finding.
link to tinyurl.com ”
Maybe, but I think you might have missed the most significant finding – 23% of those who voted SNP in 2015 did not vote at all in 2017.
This lass just looks as ridiculous as the tin pot dictators in your Rogues’ Gallery.
What an advert for our Week End Warriors: a wee Phat Phuk of a person bulging out of a kid-on uniform.
Can anyone imagine her yonking across the Falklands to relieve Goose Green?
What an insult to our Armed Forces this Self Promoting little idiot is.
And to think, some of our citizens still vote Blue Tory.
Heedtracker
Norway currently has a right wing government and Finland a centre right coalition
RIP Gordon Wilson.
A true patriot, democrat and faithful servant of Scotland.
People should consider some of his last words of wisdom: He warned don’t rush into Indyref2.
He never suggested abandoning indy. Neither do I.
We need to win over people who voted NO, before Scotland can be independent.
We need to do that BEFORE any indyref. If we haven’t, then patience is the wisest course of action.
Gfaetheblock says:
25 June, 2017 at 4:05 pm
Heedtracker
Norway currently has a right wing government and Finland a centre right coalition
As does Germany. What’s the one constant throughout all of these decades of EU government, in all these EU countries though?
Coalition.
I have to be careful, Rock swipes on duty soon but FPTP is what’s given us this farce union today, governed by red and blue tories. Or, exactly the tory government, England or middle England have always wanted.
Looked at what happened to the Wilson gov.
Disgusting for the obvious reasons, but even more so when you consider ex-soldiers like myself, who were injured during their army service and are now having PIP stripped away and are being subjected to ATOS medicals in order to keep a meagre army pension. All endrosed by this clown.
COLIN ALEXANDER says
A yoon troll using some words spoken by the very recently deceased former SNP leader. Whatever next in the troll bag of tricks.
Rock, you up yet?
I’m confident Colonel Davidson’s seat in the HoL, is secured.
@Roger
Yes that 23% who failed to vote SNP in 2017 after doing so in 2015 were the difference between 34 seats and maybe 46 seats. Conundrum how to get the vote out?
Maybe make the next election all about Independence? Who knows.
Another twerp no doubt considered for the British Army.
link to europeanscom.eu
Is this a message from the British Army that they are right behind Davidson and ready if the request is made. Watch out for Scottish troops being confined to barracks, these Tories have a track record on this.
Good to see she has joined the ranks of memorable leaders, after all has she not already denied the democratic right of the Scottish parliament. 50% is not a mandate, but 42% is if you are a Tory. A sort of despot gallery.
Roger @ 15:54,
Point well made. The new style of political campaigning: don’t promote your (absent) advantages, instead disillusion your opponents by volumes (in both senses of the word) of inane synchronised wittering. Very uplifting.
All it needs is to have an attractive counter-offer available, delivered with conviction, and promoted as a success when it actually wins through despite it all.
Thepnr @ 16:39,
In these unsettled times, who doesn’t move forward moves backward. We need skates, not brakes.
The SNP should break into a whistling chorus of Colonel Bogey when she rises to ask the first question at FMQs.
Singing the words optional.
link to youtube.com
Been ruminateing over the TRuthless photo.
I think her PR advisors have made a big mistake and that she has made herself a laughing stock and that this stick good and fast to her subsequent career in politics.
Also this will not go down at all well with certain sections of society who value military service, after all to ride a tank is one thing but to impersonate (albeit an extremely poor impersonation) an officer of Her Maj´s Forces is in poor taste.
Sorry to learn of the passing of Gordon Wilson.
I lived in Dundee in the laste 70´s (if you drank in the Speedwell at that time we have rubbed shoulders) and in the ´79 election although I was normally a Labour voter I placed my X against Gordon´s name and today I am happy to have done so.
Although I also voted for gorgeous george (galloway) for the cooncil elections so I will leave it to the Dundonian Wings regulars to pass judgement on my voting record during my time in Dundee!
Mundell will be making Davidson Honourary First Minister next.
It’s fun
Print off and draw a wee moustache ! – the face.
There is % of the population that loves uniforms- why is that? Are they frustrated that they never fought at Khartoum involved in the Boer war, Hastings or on the losing side at Bannockburn?
Something in their psyche.
Sinky says:
25 June, 2017 at 3:21 pm
Lots of Military at Royal Highland Show plus a prominent UK Government tent complete with Food is Great motifs next to Union Jacks.
I thought the show was to highlight Scotland’s farming produce and trust Scottish government has tent next year.
Interesting point on delayed CAP payments
Andy Wightman MSP?Verified account @andywightman 23h23 hours ago
More
Hypocrites. Was NFUS that demanded historic payments for longer & more complex scheme. Were warned of poss delay.
Try getting a Tory MSP farmer to admit he got his payments on time.
link to twitter.com
Hi Sinky if you are interested to see what this farmer gets go to Defra, UK – CAP Payments Search and follow the instructions his name and town beginning with A.he does not want us lowly people to see what he gets from the EU.
@heedtracker
Stu is clearly aware of my posts. He criticised one of them, didn’t he?
He didn’t indulge in this “yoon troll” nonsense. It’s his website. It’s up to him to decide if I’m a troll. HIS RULES say: if you suspect a troll, ignore them, report them and let him deal with it; don’t indulge in name calling.
Back to business:
This is the last week before the Scottish Parliament goes into recess till September. As I understand it, this week the FM will announce the decision on indyref2.
I hope she makes the right decision.
@Robert J. Sutherland
I think we also need Heart, Brains and Balls to get us over the line. Balls in particular to stand against the torrent of you know what being fed, flung and forced upon us.
I’m immune having been giving my jag in 2012, we need to think of the less fortunate, that’s 55% of our population that have been afflicted. The only antidote to that barrage of effluent is knowledge.
Independent supporting scientists have searched for years for this elixir without success. They may be a glimmer of hope though and I go along with Breeks view on this. The EU could do it for us by making programs with a Scottish slant broadcast not on a special channel but their mainstream channel.
Propaganda works two ways, think BBC World Service, Voice of America. Hey even Radio Luxemburg. The Scottish government can demand it all they like but it ain’t ever gonna happen unless they held the balance of power in Westminster say with a minority Labour government.
That’s a long shot and unlikely that they would give up broadcasting anyway. Who knows though a small compromise could maybe be on the cards. Not holding my breath.
Heart because we must never give in and brains are needed to persuade others. I don’t do brakes only skates.
‘Colonel Ruth?’
I fart in your General direction.
I hope she makes the right decision.
Shelve indyref2, for as long as possible, preferably until after BBC Scotland and chums have got the SNP out, 2021.
You lot are so transparent.
Fact is, SNP are toast, unless we get indyref2. BBC Scotland led tory media will make sure of it. Look at today’s indy supporting Sunday Herald for example. Tory media gimps aren’t playing any more indy games now.
Indyref2 gives Scotland the clearest of choices,
do we leap into the Brexit abyss with planet toryboy, our imperial masters in England, as a mere region of greater England, their scrounger region, Scotland herself brutally extinguished by the great and the good of the UK media, all led and coordinated by BBC gimps.
or,
Do we become the nation state EU member Scotland?
If you were the SNP, whoever you are, holding indyref2 is now a clear choice too.
If Sturgeon doesn’t hold it, BBC Scotland alone will ensure they are finished in 2.5 years approx.
Its a bit like and, or, not, programming isn’t it you troll and holding indyref2 is that logical.
Roger says:
It is significant, but we already knew that from the overall numbers. What we didn’t know was where the rest went. That’s what’s new. On the face of it, Labour stayed the same and Tories increased. However, there was a strong possibility that a number of SNP went to Labour, and an equal number went Labour to Tory.
This poll reveals exactly how many SNP voters went where.
Rounded percentages 2015 versus 2017 deduced from tables …
SNP again 55%
Didn’t vote 23%
Labour 11%
Tories 8%
LibDems 2%
Thepnr says:
I felt that not having independence front and centre was exactly why a quarter of SNP voters stayed at home. Those who follow politics closely understand every election/referendum counts but for many SNP supporters the main (only maybe) issue is Indy. That’s my opinion anyways.
So yes, when another vote is about Indy I check the 23% and maybe more will get their arse out and vote.
The ones lost to Labour may well be the recurring pattern, and they too will return for different votes.
Perhaps the one in twelve who voted Ruth Davidson No Indy are the biggest paradox.
@heedtracker
Fact is, many who voted SNP didn’t vote for indy in 2014.
Fact is, the SNP wanted Devo-Max on the ballot paper. Cameron said No.
Fact to be established: many who voted NO in 2014, aren’t against Scottish Sovereignty. They just didn’t want 100% independence for whatever reason.
The majority in Scotland voted for the EU as part of the UK.
We need the majority backing to further democratic and economic progress for Scotland.
Scottish Sovereignty within the UK, would be a way of working with many of the 55% who voted NO to make things more democratic and prosperous.
We could find common ground and support and make progress.
Just slagging anyone who does not yet support indy will NEVER encourage one single person to support independence.
We’re in the happy and fortunate position of watching Westminster and the so-called united kingdom disintegrating. This is no time to take our feet off the accelerator – the opposite in fact. Put pedal to the metal and put an end to this disgusting union with England.
@ heedtracker who wrote “Another twerp no doubt considered for the British Army”.
Twerp – haven’t heard that word for a long time!!Think this is the first time I’ve actually seen it written down!!
My dad used to use “twerp” occasionally to express disdain,disgust, contempt etc for some individual’s actions. There was no way back into his good books if he’d decided you were a “twerp”!
galamcennalath at 2.03
I’m not sure that things work that way. In fact they don’t
At election time it is assumed that voters change sides in significant numbers. This is not the case.
What actually happens is that enthused voters of one party come out in greater numbers than previously they did and unenthused members of another party stay at home in significant numbers and this is what usually decides electoral changes. Very few actually cross the floor, so to speak.
At that recent election I suggest s very significant reason for the SNP drop in vote was a particularly uninspiring campaign. We actually had difficulty getting some members out to vote and until we start campaigning for independence we will have increasing difficulty keeping them as members.
On the other hand Corbyn inspired some Labour voters for the first time in a decade.
Our assumption that we would mop up a collapsing Labour vote was sunk without trace. And we had no other plan.
Perhaps we now understand that no matter how tasty a tactical effort to get Labour votes is the only way to win independence is to build support for independence so that that becomes the determining factor in how the majority vote.
Hamish100 says:
UKOK is a state steeped in military violence. The Empire was created by using military force to take possession of all those red bits that used to adorn every classroom wall.
The tools of empire building – famine and the maxim gun.
For almost all of its 300 odd years it has been a war with someone somewhere. Only a small number of countries worldwide have avoided being set about.
Yet somehow, the myth that the UKOK were good guys on the world stage was drummed into generations of school kids and they grew up believing it.
Many folks still do believe the myth.
One way to start a good argument with a Yoon, say you are utterly ashamed of the Empire, but it’s never too late to try to make amends.
Dave McEwan Hill says:
The effects you describe occur, yes.
However, this YouGov poll explicitly recorded what individual people voted in 2015 and the 2017.
The sample size is huge, so the statistical accuracy will be good.
The figures are an accurate reflection of people changing allegiance.
To my mind, it is the most significant and important set of figures since the actual result.
I’ll repeat the data set URL …
link to tinyurl.com
@galamcennalath
Not convinced that not having independence at forefront caused the drop, it was not in the 2015 manifesto either. My opinion is the introduction of EVEL and the non delivery of the vow (or DevoMax as the BBC called it) really pissed off many Scots.
As with everything time dilutes these emotions, combine that with the propaganda, the bad weather plus the number of votes in the last few years, some decide that it is a waste of time.
The borders area was always going to go Tory, they basically are unlikely to ever support independence. This also goes for Orkney & Shetland as far as independence is concerned (I’m pretty sure if you stuck an orange rosette on a proven liar they would vote for it). The NE is more puzzling, believing the party that sold them out in the past is now their defenders really defies logic.
‘Bonkers’ is the only word for that pic.
Is the third one down ‘Father Ted’?
link to anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk
Queen’s regulations for the army: Occasions on which the Wearing of Uniform is Forbidden J5.368.b – “Uniform is not to be worn by prospective or adopted parliamentary candidates at political meetings, or while canvassing, appearing in public or engaged in any other activities connected with their candidature.”
galamcennalath says For almost all of its 300 odd years it has been a war with someone somewhere. Only a small number of countries worldwide have avoided being set about.
Did a wee calculation last year. UKOK have been involved in about 55 wars & conflicts around the globe since 1900. (rough guide only as Wiki was the only source I could find)
O?T also found this video – Economic Myths of the 2017 GE exposed
link to youtube.com
” With knives out for Theresa May, some UK ministers are talking about Philip Hammond as possible PM to steer Brexit “
Hammond for PM, anyone?
link to scmp.com
@Thepnr, Robert and Gala
One point to remember – to put the 23% drop in perspective – is that 2015 was truly exception for both the SNP and for Labour. The SNP were never going to beat 2015 (or equal it) easily, and Labour were never going to do as badly again. The SNP still won this year’s election, it was just a bit more ‘normal’ than 2017. It was NOT a disaster.
This is quite good from the Guardian on the DUP and Tory Brexit challenges hahaha.
Brexit promises evaporate. The hot, wet lie-farts of the liar Boris Johnson, trapped in the glamping yurt of his trousers since last year’s referendum, are now contained no more. Europa leans forward decisively, pulls down the foreign secretary’s pants, and sets his foul gases free. And guess what? They stink.
link to archive.is
Should have read that article all the way through BEFORE posting a link to it. It stinks as much as Johnson’s smelly wet farts.
Apologies to WOS.
I notice my comment has been taken down. WOS indulging in censorship now? I’ve heard of confirmation bias, but this is pathetic.
“I notice my comment has been taken down. WOS indulging in censorship now? I’ve heard of confirmation bias, but this is pathetic.”
No. What happened – as you’d know if you’d bothered to READ THE COMMENT RULES – is that people’s first comments have to be manually moderated as an anti-spam measure, but all the other ones after that are automatically approved. And if it’s a Sunday, and I’m also on holiday, then that manual moderation might take a few hours.
However, since you’ve been such a dick about it, and not read the rules before commenting despite a giant bold warning to do so, I’m not going to approve your first comment anyway.
Rock (13th May 2015 – Moodievision: The Fall And Fall…)
“Ruth Davidson is the most disgusting and nastiest politician in Scotland in my view.”
yesindyref2 (10th May 2017 – Slicing the shrinking pie)
“I have no idea why so much of the electorate actually respects Davidson, though in fairness I did before they became 2nd party and totally dishonest.”
Some of us can say things with foresight rather than hindsight.
Thepnr
However the Guardian has spent many years joining in the chorus of those who would destroy the SNP, a party that is a bulwark against the likes of the DUP and Tory excess.
Despite all the public bluster and a touch of Ruthie fancy-dressing, we shouldn’t forget (as we are in danger of doing, I fear) that the Tories are currently sh*tt*ng bricks over the election result, while putting a lot of bravado into pretending that it was some kind of masterstroke. They have paid for a brief (NB!) pause in the momentum for Scottish independence by ending up in hock to a bunch of NI flakes, not to mention their own awkward squad and even the SNP (if the rest of the opposition can be effed to do something better than just meekly collaborate with everything).
The Unionists are trying hard not to show it, but they are dead scared of having to “fight on two fronts” at the same time.
This is why we are seeing a flurry of diversionary action on the likes of here now. Protecting the flank, not for the sake of diehard habitués, but for the “soft-no’s” who look by to see what’s happening. Keep them passivated by dangling half-baked “options” in front of them that don’t in reality actually exist. (The more half-baked, and the greater the quantity, the better.) Heaven forfend that people should scope the Big Con prematurely and turn to a clear and lasting “yes”.
I expect and hope that Nicola will unashamedly refuse to apologise one whit for believing in independence, and continue to stake out an unequivocal position for Scotland to have its rightful choice towards the end of the Brexit negotiations. That’s the only “delay” worth a toss.
heedtracker,
“I have to be careful, Rock swipes on duty soon but FPTP is what’s given us this farce union today, governed by red and blue tories.”
heedtracker,
“Like it or not FPTP is fair.”
Rock,
“I can’t understand how someone who has been reading the “liberal” Guardian for centuries could be in favour of FPTP.”
Oh dear.
If that chubby bag of wind is the calibre of recruit the British Army is enlisting then it may explain why they couldn’t hold Helmand and were even chased out of Basra.
Yet another ‘great’ british institution becoming a laughing stock.
Another characteristically-insightful article on the current situation from WGD:
Check it out:
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
Has anyone else linked Ruth Harrison to Colonel Blimp ?
A point worth remembering is that the ins and outs of armed forces being politically neutral is that Armed Forces Day events are organised by the MoD amongst others. Which in turn limits the ability to select who to invite.
The leader of the Government alone might be plausible if no other leader is to be invited. Local MPs and councillors as a matter of politeness. Awkward in Scotland as the First Minister should be invited to an official event in Scotland. Ruth making an official appearance to receive her honorary rank gives a legitimacy to excluding Sturgeon, or at least keeping her out of sight if she actually attended and it’s being ignored.
Nicola has boxed herself into a corner after wasting months flogging a dead horse – a separate deal for Scotland which was never going to happen.
If that was not enough, she is now flogging another dead horse – a seat at the Brexit “negotiating” table.
A fat lot of good that will do to Scotland.
Nicola has only one option left for next week.
She must state clearly that there will be an independence referendum before Brexit is completed, with or without Westminster’s permission.
Then go on the attack. Take the gloves off.
Or we can forget about independence for at least another 310 years.
jfngw at 6.48
I didn’t have to be in the manifesto. We had just had and nearly won a independence referendum after the most energetic and ambitious campaign in Scotland’s political history.
We probably would have won one very shortly after that but with membership shooting up to 125,000 and then winning 56 out of 59 seats we adopted a peculiar defensive formation and retreated. (In Dunoon our YES campaign reformed the following week after the defeat and we have been waiting for some action now for over two years.)
The 2015 manifesto was irrelevant – just like the recent one mostly was. It’s major effect was to imply that Corbyn was a better choice than May as it and our campaign was full of shrieking about beating the Tories. But the only question that has any traction is independence against the union.If we give our electorate the wrong binary choice why should we be surprised with the result?
Worth repeating from the last thread as many would have missed it.
There are two distinct types of troll that frequent WOS.
The first type want to cause chaos and havoc for their own gratification and their intention is to try and humiliate anyone who attempts to strike back with what is sound and positive argument.
They will ignore your argument regardless and continue relentlessly on the same theme until you are forced to give up.
This type of troll gain most pleasure from causing others pain, they use a baiting tactic to find victims who will provide them with the most entertainment. People who take the bait are then considered fair game and they will not let go.
Importantly though they must have an audience to witness their antics and this aspect plays a major part in the pleasure they experience. Without an audience commenting there is no point to their trolling.
It’s a form of attention seeking probably brought about because in real life they tend to be ignored. Generally loners with no appealing qualities. They’re easy to spot, so too is dealing with them.
Totally ignoring them will break their heart.
The second type is a different kettle of fish.
Their agenda is to confuse and spread disinformation in a way that looks reasonable and possibly valid. This type is more difficult to spot.
They will make false assertions that sound believable and have a ring of truth about them, they tend to quote common myths such as “it’s a disgrace that half of the children leaving primary school are illiterate”.
They want to insert these myths into your brain and they want the myths to be spread. This type never provide evidence or links for their assertions. No it’s just gossip that they hope will be absorbed and spread wider.
These are the trolls that should be challenged with facts and the truth. Myths can take hold so we should challenge them. It is worth providing evidence that counteracts the trolls myths and assertions so that others may see the truth.
Unsubstantiated allegations of SNP BAD, or INDEPENDENCE BAD should be challenged and your own evidence provided. This allows all readers of WOS to see who the liar and mischief maker is.
They can LIE. Let us provide the evidence that proves that they LIE.
The UK armed forces have been waging illegal wars for the last couple of decades.
They are incapable of defending the country in the event of a real attack.
Shes a terry! Has she been abroad putting life and limb in the line of fire? Bet she hasn’t?
Ruthie is certainly being lauded in all quarters for her efforts on behalf of the British state in the election.
One thought that has struck me about her success in Scotland in winning 13 seats with her NO to another referendum meme.
Despite the paucity of the Conservative offer to the electorate in terms of actual policies( there were none to all intents and purposes), I think what appeared to many to be an empty slogan worked on two fronts simultaneously.
It obviously appealed to the die-hard Brits in Scotland who would put the union in front of anything else in their lives,and were dead against another Scottish referendum on independence.
But, i think it also worked on a subtler level as well. I.E that many of those attracted to the Tories this time thought that this slogan also referred to no second referendum on the UK leaving the EU. This of course was the Lib Dems signature policy during the election, and I can well imagine that those indisposed to this notion( which include a fair many people from all different parties)were attracted to vote Conservative since they were the only ones to seemingly outline such a complete rejection of this idea. It’s ridiculous I know- but I wonder a good portion of voters were actually drawn to this position since it actually sounded quite democratic?
We all know how the Tories managed to intentionally mix up Holyrood/Westminster areas of policy in the electors’ minds to their own purposes during the election, aided and abetted of course by the puppet unionist media. I believe they were even more devious and underhand with their double no-referendum tactic.
Never underestimate the ruthless duplicity and amorality of the British Conservatives.
I’m sorry to have to say this in one way- but i’m so glad that its you guys who have to bear the brunt of this rather than us in Wales at the present time.
My hope is that by the time you win your independence, the British State will be so shattered and demoralised that they will be in no position to really scupper our push for independence at that juncture.
I also believe that by that stage the UK tabloids will also be a busted flush and unable to impose their agenda here as they have been able to do in Scotland over the past few years.
As the Good Book says: “The truth will set you free” ( not the Ruth)!
Dave McEwan Hill,
“We probably would have won one very shortly after that but with membership shooting up to 125,000 and then winning 56 out of 59 seats we adopted a peculiar defensive formation and retreated.”
Rock (16th June – The Failures)
“The SNP can never hold the balance of power at Westminster.
The unionists would rather form a grand coalition.
Corbyn has repeatedly ruled out any deal with the SNP.
The SNP can never achieve anything at Westminster.
With 56 MPs, they missed the golden opportunity of walking out and causing a constitutional crisis leading to independence.
If we ever get it into our head that independence from the British Empire never came easily, we might one day become independent.”
Cymru Rydd,
“Never underestimate the ruthless duplicity and amorality of the British Conservatives.”
Thepnr,
“Bumbling fools making an embarrassment of the UK never mind Scotland. Just think of Boris Johnson, Fox, Davis or Gove. Not only is May herself an idiot she has surrounded herself with them and they are calling the shots. Calling them wrongly of course as like Harrison they too are delusional. Idiots.”
Rock,
“They are neither fools nor idiots. They are some of the nastiest people around.”
Thepnr,
“States the biggest fool ever to post on Wings. Covert Tory.”
Our worst enemies are the pompous, clueless armchair pundits posting here who are hell-bent on wasting scarce time and resources in convincing those who are highly unlikely ever to be convinced.
Lipstick and army fatigues – not a good look!
Colonel Davidson wearing lipstick and army fatigues – yuk!
What’s her day job, anyway?
LOL
@Dave McEwan Hill 8:30
I’m afraid the SNP in the 2015 election campaigned on “not a vote for independence but a vote for a strong voice at Westminster”. You cannot call an independence referendum on a false promise no matter how much you believe in the case of independence.
I believe in independence but by honesty, not conning people to vote for you. So the manifest is important to me anyway, you are no better than the rest if you use these tactics. Fortunately I believe Nicola Sturgeon has integrity and will be honest with the electorate.
Think Sturgeon herself has condemned the press for speculation that she was going to drop indy ref2. Seems the press are just in wishful thinking mode trying to divide the movement.
@Free Scotland
It’s poor old Ruth, she thought being in the Bullingdon Club was something about being on a bull. She was just trying to fit in with her masters. It’s really sad when a Scot feels they have to adopt the colonial position, but worse when they get it so wrong.
@Geoff Huijer says: 25 June, 2017 at 11:52 am:
” … I’m sick of Godwin’s Law which is often misinterpreted as ‘If you mention Hitler you lose.’ I don’t think Godwin intended it that way at all”
And you would be right to think so, Geoff.
Godwin’s Law, actually titled, “Argumentum ad Nazium, reductio ad Hitlerum”, was formulated by an attorney named Mike Godwin, (a previous general counsel for the Wikimedia Foundation), in the 1990s. What his law stated was,
That translates as, “If an online discussion (and it doesn’t matter what the topic is), then sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler or his deeds”.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with winning or losing the debate. It is just a statement of probability.
jfngw @ 21:02,
I believe that Nicola’s integrity was exactly why she faced up to the devo-challenges posed by the Unionists and their media flunkeys. As they cynically knew she would. A calculated lose-lose, since she would have been quickly accused of “dodging the issue” if she had told them to take a devo-hike.
WM elections are always a hard row to hoe for the SNP, and after the heady heights of 2015 it was always going to be hard to take the anticipated UK squeeze. Which in the event didn’t regress to anywhere near 2010 as the Unionists hoped and planned.
Yes, we armchair theorists can all be wise after the event. (All except the far-seeing Rock, of course, who is a veritable prophet in the wilderness. =wink=) The “protecting Scotland’s interests” line is indeed wearing a bit thin on its own. Necessary but not sufficient.
Also factor in those people in the NE who saw the SNP traditionally as a bulwark against Central Belt Labourism, but who are now beginning to discount Labour and replace it by the SNP, and – influenced by a longstanding drizzle of Tory and LibDem “central belt bias” propaganda, flip to the Tories instead. (Sorry there, LibDem three-time losers!)
It’s hard to place all that responsibility on those one pair of shoulders. But she’s a smart cookie, lessons will be learnt, and I believe she will come out fighting again. This thing is too important to let slide now.
jfngw,
I really don’t know how to break this to you, but whilst well intentioned, your notions of how the SNP should behave at Westminster will achieve for Scotland, exactly what has been achieved since the treaty of union, i.e nothing.
The 56 MP’s should have walked out, to cause a stir. Indeed, I would go further, and say, when the SNP obtained such overwheleming support, their first step on entering Westminster should have been to demand independence, there and then. Why? because if they had done that, they would have so scared Westminster that we would have been at the very least been given Smith in full – possibly more. You ALWAYS ask for more than you will accept in a negotiation.
Instead the SNP went in, despite the massive support, being all nicey, nicey, saying ‘we want Smith in full’, and nothing more. It doesn’t take a genius to realise that Westminster would just laugh at them- both due to their naivety and the fact they couldn’t actually do anything about it. WE got powers over road signs, or something.
You see, at Westminster, if you do not in such circumstances walk out, and demand independence, you merely accept what WEstminster wants. It really is just a fact. Of course you can talk about how wrong it all is, and make statements etc.., but really, nobody in Westminster/England cares.
I would bet a large sum of money, that David Cameron, fully expected the Scot Gov to demand independence based upon the election result in 2015.
Their is no deception in this. The stated goal of the SNP from day one has been independence. It is why they exist (until very recently, apparently). Heck, they have twice organised legislation for a referendum on the issue, so it’s not really a secret, is it.
In my lifetime, it was always accepted (by ALL parties) fact that a pro indy majority at Westminster would mean independence, no questions, no referendum. Indeed this was often a sneer directed at Scots, that if they wanted independence, they should vote SNP. Even Thatcher accepted that was the case. It is only the SNP (and not Westminster, btw), which has placed these EXTRA hurdles in the way.
Being ‘nice’ to Westminster will achieve sweet F all.
Just for the Rock-ord – I just skip right over anything you post. I glimpse your handle – and scroll right on by.
Just thought you should know. But don’t worry – you’re not alone. There are a few others.
The folk who voted Tory didn’t do it for Tory policies, they voted against the SNP because in their minds they were voting against a referendum so the numbers are about right for that but nothing to do with Ruth Davidson or her new guise as Colonel Blimp
All three of the Union party ran an anti referendum campaign and the SNP didn’t, yet still the SNP won by a large margin
It suggests to me that if that’s the best the Union party can do then come the real thing they’re going to fail
The whole Union campaign was we don’t want it coz we just don’t, followed up by a complete absence of anything except we don’t like it
It just seems if they’d had an actual case why didn’t they make it, why didn’t they troop out the usual suspects to bang on about too wee too poor
All they had was Colonel Blimp squealing 47 times a day supported by Deepdug whining and Rennie bellyaching
where was the backup, where were the big guns
It wasn’t really what I’d call a convincing show
jfngw,
“I believe in independence but by honesty, not conning people to vote for you. So the manifest is important to me anyway, you are no better than the rest if you use these tactics. Fortunately I believe Nicola Sturgeon has integrity and will be honest with the electorate.”
Rock (17th January – The flexibility of figures)
“That is the dishonest part.
She has been flogging a dead horse.
She should have said clearly following the Brexit result that the only way for Scotland to become a member of the EU was by becoming an independent country.
Talk straight to the Scottish people and they will listen.
We have wasted seven months for nothing.”
If she flogs another dead horse next week, the independence cause is dead for the next 310 years.
@Robert Louis
What a lot of condescending shit, it’s people like you that are block to independence. Willing to lie to the electorate to achieve your goal. You cannot ask people to vote for you saying it’s not a vote for independence then declare independence. What you seem to want is a civil war, that you will lose.
I have yet to actually find this Thatcher quote regarding independence, and the indirect quotes that I have seen can be interpreted in more than one way.
Dr Jim,
“All three of the Union party ran an anti referendum campaign and the SNP didn’t, yet still the SNP won by a large margin”
Losing 37% to 63% is not winning by a large margin.
Wait a minute…. in that 3rd photo down…… is that not father ted??
@Dave McEwan Hill
when exactly do you think Nicola should have called for a second referendum,
before or after results of Smith Commission,
before or after 2015 GE,
before or after EU Referendum,
`yes` had consolidated high 40% but we need 50% +1,
even 2015 GE with 56 out of 59 MP`s we barely reached 50 %,
Brexit is the change that will bring us 50% + 1,
if we had gone early we could well have scuppered this better chance.
The more I see of these circus of clowns that is the Tory party, the more I think they are trying to ape Trumps working class conservative populism.
Regardless of what you think of Trump and his policies, there is no doubt he is a showman and a BS artist that can sell ice to the Eskimo’s. It isn’t hard for him as he’s based his business career on it. He knows how to raise expectations up to fever pitch and when reality bites, he has the front to mange these expectations so that he comes out smelling of roses.
These buffoons over here, with the help of a compliant British Broadcasting Corporation, may be able to do similar BS for a while but it is going to blow up in their faces. The obvious one is this Davidson’s meme of saying that everybody is sick of hearing about another indy ref. Aye, we are sick of hearing about it…from her when she mentions at every opportunity she gets. Ruth Davidson and her fellow travelers will get their 15 minutes of fame but the public will soon get bored of them and their limited box of tricks.
Re; Proud cybernat@9.38
Yep, same here, it’s so easy, see the name, and there are a couple, even at weekends, and, ignore.
@Rock
“Losing 37% to 63% is not winning by a large margin”.
That’s true, and illustrates the differenc between a FPtP election and a referendum. What happened after the Indyref was that the Yes side consolidatd behind the SNP but the No vote was still split between 3 parties. The risk is that the pro-union side will, sooner or later, consolidate behind one party – and woldn’t the Conservative and Unionist party be the obvious choice? But maybe a more left-wing labour part will stop that happening and the No vote will still be split left/right Labour/Tory…
OT – defence news – not a lot really
link to ukdefencejournal.org.uk
Parker, who suggested in his independent report on the National Shipbuilding Strategy, a report which is getting much credence, that warships be built all over the UK, says:
“Workforces are secured only by workload. I mentioned earlier that BAE obviously have had to reduce the employment in Clyde yards.
The five OPVs have taken up quite a bit of slack but not all of it, so they have got to build back up again to the level of resource needed for the Type 26. If it is contracted this year, clearly it will be another year before that probably builds up to a significant level.”
So what we’ve seen is:
1. Pre-referendum to be ordered Dec 2014 in phases, 13 Type 26 warships, 8 full fleet escorts and 5 of a cheaper specification, reduced already to
2. 8 Type 26 + 5 Type 31 light frigates (probably a different design), with the 5 T31 to be “assembled” on the Clyde, to
3. early warnings that perhaps there isn’t a sufficient workforce, with DUP looking for payoff in NI for propping up the Tories, and NI is aleady being mentioned for building navy ships
then perhaps to
4. T31 being moved to NI for the “assembling”, then perhaps to
5. 3 Type 26 frigates to be built on the Clyde, then the other 5 elsewhere, no 5 Type 31 frigates.
It’s the value of a Westminster promise – or Vow even.
colin Alexander says:
25 June, 2017 at 6:17 pm
@heedtracker
Fact is, you’d get the proper respect you crave colin Alexander, if you just came out and said, we cant let indyref2 happen because in all likelihood, YES will win with a belter of a majority.
All it takes is 18 months more max, of the unfolding and unholy tory Brexit catastrofuck, which will end in complete and utter disaster, probably with mass deportations for starters.
But that’s not how UKOK game of trolls goes is it colin Alexander..
Why your WoS name flips from COLIN ALEXANDER to colin Alexander, is all that’s remotely interesting about your trolling.
I’m aware that I don’t always notice when people are joking on-line, so if the two people who commented that the third picture down looks like Father Ted do in fact know who it really is, sorry in advance!
If they don’t know – the men pictured are Ratko Mladi? and Radovan Karadži?. Even google isn’t immune to muddling them up, though: link to archive.is
Mystery. Highland dress is supposed to have been invented by Walter Scott for the visit of George 1st to Scotland in 1822.
How did a yo?ng lad come to have his portrait painted in highland dress in 1708?
From the National Portrait Gallery, John Campbell, 3rd Earl of Breadalbane as a child in highland dress:
link to tinyurl.com
ben madigan says:
25 June, 2017 at 6:27 pm
@ heedtracker who wrote “Another twerp no doubt considered for the British Army”.
Your Dad was my kind of Dad, Ben:D
Gove’s photo is actually in wikipedia, under “twerp.” Actually its Tory Twerp, in wiki,
eg. Michael Gove, privately educated at Gordon’s College, Aberdeen, then up to Cambridge university, all free. Gordon’s was paid for with council bursary funding, Gove’s uni funded by maintenance grants, Cambridge ofcourse, no charge.
A twerp like Gove then gets into politics and scraps the lot.
On behalf of non twerp Scots, England, we are so so sorry.
@crazycat
Thank goodness for that, I was wondering why Father Dougal had aged so badly.
Ah, that’s interesting – z with a caron comes out ok, c with an acute doesn’t. They’re transliterations from Cyrillic, anyway.
I assume that won’t come out either:
??????? ???????
????? ??????
(looks ok in the preview, but…)
@Capella 10:28
I’ve been looking for an accurate Scottish history book, any suggestion by the readers would be helpful, and no Neil Oliver suggestions please. What little Scottish history I was taught I sometimes feel was not 100% factual.
Scot Finlayson at 9.59
Exactly as she has always said and as I expect her to say shortly.
Between August 2018 and March 2019 unless something holds the Brexit process up.
At no point did I suggest a date for a referendum. Are you swallowing the media’s deliberate confusion?
I am complaining, if you read my posts, about us not campaigning for independence on a continuous basis and then being puzzled when we lose votes.
We do not need 51% Opinion poll to start an independence campaign and we wont get 51% until we do. The only opinion poll we need is the one on referendum day. The frenetic stuff in the media is because they Know that as things stand and when we start a campaign we will win. If they thought we would lose they’d be giving us one.
@ jfngw
I’ve not read this, but I believe it’s well-regarded:
Scottish Independence and the Idea of Britain: From the Picts to Alexander III by Dauvit Broun
If you look him up on amazon, he’s the author/co-author of a number of titles, though he does specialize in early periods.
Tom Devine’s prolific too.
Stuff that I read decades ago (and have not remembered the names of) was all a bit timid and afraid of upsetting the establishment.
PacMan at 10.00
Agree with you entirely – and I would point out that that election came down to whether Labour or Tory would win the government so any effect it may have had on the independence vote is limited as we did not support independence during our campaign. Sadly.
Here’s a thought.
If Jeremy Corbyn had gone to Glastonbury last year he would have been derided in the media for seeking votes from hippies and junkies.
This year he is given pride of place on the BBC.
There is something going on here. I have little doubt that the establishment is attempting through its media to destroy May and perhaps even the Tories. I have never seen this before.
My suspicion is that there may be a drawn out plot going on to derail Brexit.
Tomorrow’s National front page:
link to pbs.twimg.com
jfngw says:
I haven’t read any recently written history books, but two absolute classics I can recommend are ….
link to amazon.co.uk
link to amazon.co.uk
@heedtracker
We’ll get indy cos Brexit will be a disaster? Hmm
Let’s think about that one.
Brexit. Scotland is currently part of the UK and we’d be out the EU/Single Market too.
So it will be an economic disaster for Scotland. Right? That’s why we need indy.
So, when Scotland is in an economic disaster, that will make NO voters who were scared of being independent, because they feared Scotland would not be prosperous enough and too dependent on the price of oil, suddenly have the confidence to vote Yes for full indy, once Scotland is an economic basket case and the price of oil is less than half of what it was in 2014?
Hmmm. I think that Indyref strategy needs a bit more work on it.
Dave McEwan Hill @ 22:50,
True that.
There isn’t actually a single person (well, maybe there’s a random idiot somewhere! =grin=) who actually wants indyref2 right now. It was a Unionist straw man set up as a smokescreen because they didn’t have the guts – not even brave wee Signaller Harrison – to say “no” outright. Typical Unionist deviousness.
Brexit going against our expressed wishes has a (triple!) mandate, and everyone knows it. But just because the asteroid is due to hit in a year’s time (as WGD nicely puts it) doesn’t mean we shouldn’t start preparing to dodge it now. Big difference. Obvious really.
We absolutely don’t want people slowly normalising into this disaster. That wouldn’t end well.
Dave McEwan Hill @ 22:50,
True that.
There isn’t actually a single person (well, maybe there’s a random idiot somewhere! =grin=) who actually wants indyref2 right now. It was a Unionist straw man set up as a smokescreen because they didn’t have the guts – not even brave wee Signaller Harrison – to say “no” outright. Typical Unionist deviousness.
Brexit going against our expressed wishes has a (triple!) mandate, and everyone knows it. But just because the asteroid is due to hit in a year’s time (as WGD nicely puts it) doesn’t mean we shouldn’t start preparing to dodge it now. Big difference. Obvious really.
We absolutely don’t want people slowly normalising into this disaster. That wouldn’t end well.
link to caltonjock.com
jfngw says:
25 June, 2017 at 10:41 pm
@Capella 10:28
Write your own one, Scottish history I mean. Most histories of Scotland are either fantastically dry, fantasy, or tory. TC Smout is or was an academic go to, but really really boring.
There are or were some fantastic Scottish history lecturers at Aberdeen uni. They were often transformative to hear and I didn’t do history. If there’s a Scots uni near, slide in at the back of big Scottish history lectures. They’re usually the best.
Sometimes you wonder how anyone survived at all, from when the last great 2 mile deep Scottish ice sheets evaporated away, 14 thousand years ago, to running into heavy machine gun fire, on killing fields like the Somme.
PS. I realise that the last ice age happened 6 thousand years ago, pending which DUP Ulsterman you vote for, in the 21st century.
And then we wonder why this farce union is the laughing stock of the whole world.
@heedtracker 11:07
If only I had the ability, it would be a great boon to me. I can hardly manage a coherent paragraph on here.
Ruth Britannia.
COLIN ALEXANDER says:
Brexit is a rolling disaster now, as trolls like you know full well.
If Brexit was not a rolling tory UKOK catastrofuck, after a year already and an absurd GE, and instead a PM Corbyn was at the helm, and Lab had caused this horror show, the whole of the tory teamGB media, led and coordinated by our fabulously corrupt tory toxic BBC, would be in total melt down.
Its just aswell that the SNP have been closed out of all of it.
But we do live under a BBC tory media regime and so far, the whole tory clown show’s being kept afloat. For how much longer, who can say, Mayhem’s freaks go this week, pushed out in a palace coup tomorrow and PM/Colonel Ruth Davidson plonked in No.10.
Your precious union is that barking mental mad you ridiculous idiot.
O/T
Hi folks, anyone about that fancies a wee gab/rant this Thursday and can get to Cambuslang for 7pm?
Please share amongst anybody you think would be interested, and I’ll hope to see you there!
twitter.com/YesRutherglen/status/879079981267210241
Colin Alexander @ 6.17
There will never be a “settled” Union for any length of time by…
Branding whatever arrangement you seem to have in mind…..
Sovereignty within the Union!!!
That’s a Con,what ever you call it …. you can’t call it that!
People who understand Sovereignty won’t stop pointing that out.
I know this cause I am one of them.
Also if you believe that Scotland not only Should be independent,but one day will be independent.
It is not in the interests of the on going relationship between the two Countries on this Island to mislead the Scots one last time,now is it??
Things will be tricky enough when the rest of Scotland work’s out the value of Scotland,and people begin to realise how exactly Westminster has been governing!!!
To have prolonged this by what is to be frank (not me I’m Liz g)…a lie would put an unnecessary strain on the new relationship between the two Nations….. just as Scotland is having to understand Sovereignty to be writing our New Constitution, don’t ye think Colin?
It’s that kind of Shit Show,we are trying to get away from.. isn’t it?
I want independance because I want honest government?
Or at the very least a government within slapping distance!
To con people to stay in the Union…
Or
To con people in to Independence by stealth…
That’s just plain wrong Colin..
Sovereignty within the Union CAN’T happen.
Base your argument, whatever it is, on the truth man!
Taking account of the fact that you profess to support Independece Rock do you have anything positive to say (EVER) about Nicola Sturgeon / the SNP: The ONLY party in Scotland that can EVER help us acquire our Independence. What about an informative link or a constructive idea / suggestion? You could even think about outlining what you actually think of Davidson, Dugdale and Rennie now and again.
Or are we going to be subjected to you, “a pompous, clueless armchair pundit”, constantly “flogging a dead horse” about Nicola Sturgeon flogging a dead horse?
John Prebble’s histories of Scotland are excellent. He was an English journalist living in Nova Scotia and became fascinated by the tales he heard from Scottish emigrees. See Amazon for his books on Culloden, The Highland Clearances etc.
You won’t find a definitive University history of Scotland similar to the Oxford History of England. Most are piecemeal and depend on the political bias of the author.
“The King’s Jaunt” is the Prebble account of King George 4th’s visit to Scotland.
Based on that, playwright Mike Harris wrote “Inventing Scotland” which BBC Radio 4 broadcast in February. The theme is that Walter Scott invented Scotland to please the king. None of the attributes we associate with Scotland actually existed before Walter Scott invented them.
This is a common theme in unionist efforts to erase Scottish history.
link to bbc.co.uk
On the other hand, there is the portrait of John Campbell, 3rd Earl of Breadalbane, dressed in highland dress in 1708. That’s 114 years before Walter Scott invented it.
What are we to believe? Radio 4 or the evidence of our own lying eyes?
Good to see that the YouGov poll puts trust in newspaper journalists in Scotland at 3%, is this a peak?
Of course if it was only 2% (I’m making that number up for the following point) in the pre-ceding poll it would be spun by the papers as trust in journalism increases by 50%. They use stats to produce big numbers in headlines.
jfngw, you wont know til you try. It is staggering how Scottish history is twisted to suit all kinds of British agendas. Do what student essay writers and most journalists do all the time, plagiarise. Just dont call it that though. Its inspired by, not copying:D
What are we to believe? Radio 4 or the evidence of our own lying eyes?
Next time your in Forres, take a look at
link to undiscoveredscotland.co.uk
The Pict warriors are all in kilts.
@Capella says:
25 June, 2017 at 10:28 pm
Mystery. Highland dress is supposed to have been invented by
============================
Walter Scott was never said to have invented the Highland Dress, only that he popularised his version of it and made it acceptable to wear again (having been outlawed some decades earlier) – his popularisation of Scottish culture and themes helped with this too and incidentally he probably helped create the Scottish tourist industry.
I think (can’t be he bothered to double check this late) that historically – since each clan actually physically made their own tartan kilts – different tartans came about simply because local craftsman made their own designs and they later became associated with each clan. There was no special body back then to register tartans and validate tartans or create new ones, they simply grew out of local weavers of each clan having their own styles. Tartan and kilts go back hundreds of years before Walter Scott had the king dress up in Highland dress
Liz g @ 23:26
There it is, the right to genuine autonomy and democracy condensed into one pithy wee sentence. Nice one, Liz. Worth more than a million snide yoon diversions!
An entire website’s strategies devoted to keeping vile Scots separatists under control- such angst. Even the Radical Covenanters knew that Scotland was a country. For some reason they don’t rate the citizens in Morningside or Drumchapel;
‘The first requirement of the Aim is to maintain our ground at 55% of the vote.
The second requirement of the Aim is to regain our ground and push our support up to 65%.
Contrary to what some people think, a second referendum lost by the SNP would not “put the matter to rest”. It would only do so if our winning margin was greater than the 55-45 of last time. If we win, but lose ground then that will only encourage the SNP to go for a third referendum’
link to aforceforgood.org.uk
‘PRINCIPLES OF ECONOMY
Principle 11: The UK is a Sharing and Redistributive Tax Union
Principle 12: Mineral and Energy Resources throughout the UK belong to all British Citizens (note from Editor- not really – all proceeds go to the magic money tree that grows in the walled garden of the 0.1%)
The United Kingdom, however, is quite a different country – which includes a significant separatist movement in Scotland. Therefore, devolution of power to Scotland will never have the benign affect that it has in the United States(note from Editor-Pittsburgh, California?)
The Scottish separatists want to destroy the British Union – and to gather to themselves as much power as possible which will enable them to do so. Any devolutionary powers will always risk being manipulated, and directly acquired by them, towards their ultimate end of political separation
They will always seek to harness any devolved power deliberately to promote strife rather than harmony, with the overall aim of separation rather than union.
(Note from Editor-unlike the DUP who want to subject us to endless turgid flute recitals and fleece the UK tax payer)
In the presence of a significant separatist movement, devolving power will always be potentially dangerous to a union. Only in the absence of such a movement, is it possible to imagine devolution existing without potential damage’
link to aforceforgood.org.uk
‘The question of what powers the residents of, say, Morningside or Drumchapel will have within Scotland could not be settled by the residents of Morningside or Drumchapel.
The question of what powers Scotland will have within the UK could not be settled by the Scottish electorate’
link to aforceforgood.org.uk
‘The Settled Will of the Scottish People”
This absurd and politically illiterate phrase entered parlance from the mouths of the Labour Party. It is a blatant attempt to give devolution, and the Scottish Parliament itself, an air of “finality” – as if it can never be changed. The fact is, nothing in life, and certainly not in politics, is ever “settled”. Devolution may be here today. That doesn’t mean it is going to be here tomorrow’
link to aforceforgood.org.uk
Agreed- let’s get rid of devolution tomorrow and replace it with Scotland’s Independence.
@ stu mac – see link to the Radio 4 play – unfortunately you can’t listen to it now, maybe that’s fortunate, but the theme is that Walter Scott invented Scottishness – for money:
The true story of how one man’s need for cash created a national myth and saved the union.
It is 1822 . King George is coming to Edinburgh and novelist Walter Scott has two weeks to create a patriotic, nation-binding spectacle that will avert revolution, save the union, earn the monarch’s eternal gratitude, and also rescue himself from imminent bankruptcy.
@ heedtracker – Sueno’s stone is certainly spectacular. I first saw it before it had a glass casing. Well worth a visit.
@heedtracker
Agreed that the start of Brexit is already a mess. With everything going smoothly the UK Govt’s estimate to completing a Brexit deal and a trade deal was two years.
Does anyone still believe that?
“Article 50 sets a two-year deadline for a deal with the EU on the UK’s withdrawal agreement. This deadline can be extended with the unanimous agreement of European Council members.
What happens if we can’t reach a deal within two years?
If no deal on the withdrawal agreement is reached within this two-year period, there are two options: the negotiating period can be extended by unanimous agreement of the European Council; or, the UK leaves the EU with no withdrawal agreement in place. The EU treaties would cease to apply to the UK, with no arrangement for how to manage the transition. This would create significant uncertainty for UK citizens living in the EU, for UK businesses trading with EU states, and for UK organisations reliant on EU funding. It might also contribute to uncertainty over the status of EU citizens living in the UK.” *
At the very earliest, Brexit negotiations would take until 19 June 2019 approx. That’s before any trade deal is negotiated.
The economic effects of Brexit would only really kick in once we have left, after 19 June 2019 or whenever that happens. Nobody knows how long they will negotiate for.
And you really think that that will all be achieved and an indyref approved and campaign run and referendum held prior to March 2021, which is when the current parliament dissolution will occur?
And between those dates there will be enough time and enough changes in people’s lives to convince them they need to leave the UK that they backed in 2014 when the price of oil was much higher and the YES campaign mood was buoyant about the good economic times ahead for Scotland?
I wish it were true, but I can’t see Brexit achieving a 50% plus vote for indy before March 2021.
As I already said, in such a short time frame, if it looked like indy could win, the UK Govt just delay permission for one for another year. Then it’d be too late to hold one.
*https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/sites/default/files/publications/5040%20IFG%20-%20Negotiating%20Brexit%20v4.pdf
Dave McEwan Hill @ 11:01 pm
Here’s a thought.
If Jeremy Corbyn had gone to Glastonbury last year he would have been derided in the media for seeking votes from hippies and junkies.
This year he is given pride of place on the BBC.
There is something going on here. I have little doubt that the establishment is attempting through its media to destroy May and perhaps even the Tories. I have never seen this before.
My suspicion is that there may be a drawn out plot going on to derail Brexit.
I don’t follow politics as closely as I did but a thought has always struck me about the media in regards to politics which kind of ties in with what you said.
Those who work in the news media, like every other upper middle class profession, is tied to the concept of having generous pensions or the ability to pay for ones in order that they can retire in their fifties and enjoyment an affluent lifestyle free from the rat race.
It is BS that they are the fourth estate. The failings of the news media is well documented in popular culture through out the years and the reality is that the type of journalism seen in the film All the presidents men only existed between the start and the film of that film (I had read that quote form an article and sums them up well). It is in the interest of those working in the news media to ensure the economy is working well to guarantee their retirement and they will throw their support behind which political party which ensures that.
For that reason, they are only interested in economically centrist parties. At the moment the Tories are weak, in turmoil and ready to tear themselves apart of Europe. Labour is a far better bet to safeguard their investments.
That’s my opinion anyway and a cynical one at that. TBH, I could imagine if Scottish independence guaranteed an economically right wing Scotland that guaranteed generous tax haven status to foreign investors, the British media would be falling over themselves to support it.
Re Corbyn – my theory is that the Establishment will push Corbyn to replace May if they fear that Scotland might vote for Independence. Better red than dead.
Scots could be persuaded to stick with the union if some glorious socialist paradise was just around the corner – where it’s been for over 60 years – just tantalisingly out of reach.
I can honestly say I have never voted Tory so how’s this fair?
52.5% TORY MPs ELECTED IN ENGLAND
(4,906 out of a possible 9,338)
24.5% TORY MPs ELECTED IN SCOTLAND
(305 out of a possible 1,247)
66.7% TORY POPULAR VOTE VICTORIES IN ENGLAND
(12 out of a possible 18)
16.7% TORY POPULAR VOTE VICTORIES IN SCOTLAND
(3 out of a possible 18
Better late than never: link to wp.me
Capeiia@11.53
It was not that Walter Scott “invented” Highland dress, but after 70 odd years since the ’45 rising the Highlands were seen as romantic rather than threatening and Scott certainly went all out to create a distinctive Scottish identity, which survives to this day in Highland games and weddings and the Tartan Army. The country is the better for it and it is recognised abroad and emulated proudly by Scottish exiles around the world to the great benefit of the tourist industry.
Incidentally Scott made no money out of that and saved himself from bankruptcy when his publishing house went bust by turning out a flood of work until he cleared every penny.
He also led the search for and found the forgotten Crown Jewels of Scotland in a chest in Edinburgh Castle.
He was a high Tory and Unionist but left a legacy which still resonates today.
Grouse Beater @12.23
Great article. Thank you. Sums up Nicola precisely. A warm, intelligent politician whom we are fortunate to have.
Could you imagine the russians coming over the fall and facing that, they would all die laughing, they would think we had all turned into a country of Humpty Dumpties lol
@ Fireproofjim- I’m not criticising Scott but calling out the devious BBC for broadcasting mischievous tales that misinform.
During 2014 they broadcast Redgauntlet which, so someone – regret I can’t remember who – said had been edited to make it more pro union.
Imagine Dickens being edited to make A Christmas Carol more neo-liberal.
We get so little of our own culture and history brosdcast. I think it is appalling that even that little is bent out of shape to suit a unionist agenda.
Yes Grouse, thanks for that, it’s as clear as day that Nicola is at ease in her soul, (I’ve met her briefly myself, your description is spot on), I cannae fathom those attitudes you refer to in people who express such hatred for a politician? I also cannot get ma head round the idea that she could be perceived as an ‘angry woman’ who needs to ‘calm down’ as was stated by a regular on Wings recently, of course they ran away when challenged on this assertion, nevertheless that’s the sort of odd comment that is even more bizarre from those on our side of the independence debate!
Thanks again, a warm, positive and accurate portrait of our first minister, much needed sane appraisal of who she really is as a person.
More4 is broadcasting Outlander at 9.00 pm on Thursday 29th June. About bloody time.
I’m thinking of starting a new newspaper called the
Hindsight Gazzette, whaddya think
We could fill it with all the woulda coulda shoulda articles
See I’m just a simple SNP member who doesn’t think he can do better than the party who despite every arm of the British Empire raised against it for years is still in Government with a majority of Scottish MPs in Westminster, control in Holyrood, the First Minister of the country and highly respected overseas as well
Sometimes the negativity that surrounds the SNP from even those who need them the most just lifts the hairs right aff my chest
We would be nowhere nothing nada zilch without their herculean efforts and in the words of the FM could some folk just for once find it in their hearts to get behind them and back their efforts
Nicola Sturgeon doesn’t need this, she could be away working at the United Nations if she wanted to, and like others in the party they don’t do this for the cash, Christ on a bike who would,
We all know it’s a lot easier to be a list Unionist where nothing’s expected of you than be in the SNP, that’s real work
So Hindsight Gazzette? Good title?
Capella @ 11.28
Aye Capella…. Being Scottish is just a Queen Victoria invention….
.like we all believe that..HA.
…. sometimes it’s like they forgot about the internet…
mibbi auld Victoria needed to be amused, who knows whit auld Queen’s demand???
But if stuff like tarten wiz never really popular before her..EH???…WT Absolute F??? Well..
WHY did they ban it then????..Em efter a wee incedent in 1746′!
Or so I’ve heard.
But nabidy knows fur sure….cause they wir aw kilt….wee shame that!!
Ye know, Capella…sometimes I wonder if,we should be spending at least some of the time between…2014 & Indy ref 2 on what taught “History” in the Schools should actually look like.
And..And. Somehow getting checking that is is accurate …as far as we can verify…. right.
I know not everyone will agree….but I am an advocate of!!
You won’t know Where you’re going, ….if you don’t understand Where you,be been…oh my…when are we ever going to find the time to fix Europe,the Planets and em…well everything really???
Best just concentrate on Holyrood for now… fixing the world is a young yins game… LOL!!
Capella @ 11.28 again.
I am not sure if my previous comment came across as being..or at least, trying to be ironic…but it was what I had intended it to be, my friend,XX.
Rubbish Education I’m afraid…!
Hopefully you will be comforted by the fact that….if I am bad at being… ironic….rest assured, I am far worse at IRONING…if you ever meet me you will see… this is indeed tru !!!…
@Capella
The British establishment write Scots history as they see fit, twas ever so with the “winners”. A classic example is how the media treat “the Young Pretender” as they call him, otherwise known as Charles Edward Stuart. He is portrayed as weak, a poor general, foppish, a coward.
Yet this is the guy that sailed from France with two warships dull of French troops, hit a storm which damaged the gubships troppships, yet carried on to land in Scotland with just seven companions, curiously copied by the seven men of Knoydart perhaps, raised his banner and wtih just seven men still went on to take on the English, and had to be dragged off the battleground at Culloden to avoid him being killed too.
Yeah right, a coward indeed.
full, not “dull”, gunships not “gubships”, troopships not “troppships”! Sigh.
@Colin Alexander: “At the very earliest, Brexit negotiations would take until 19 June 2019 approx. That’s before any trade deal is negotiated.”
The anniversary of the Brexit notification is March 2019 – 3 months earlier than June 2019. Article 50 states:
“3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.”
“unanimously”. So if just one of the EU-27 refuses to allow an extension, that’s it, the UK is oot the EU, agreement or no agreement, deal or no deal.
Tusk seems to be the only one who has some sympathy for the UK’s position (though probably not for May herself), and stated that the UK could change its mind. He is President of the European Council, and has influence, but he doesn’t get a vote, only the heads of state of the EU-27 do. Belgium for instance is unlikely to vote for it, it just wants to get on with the EU.
Others in the EU have stated that the priority of the EU-27 is – the EU-27 itself, and the continuation of the EU. The UK is therefore NOT their priority.
I’d consider the chances of an extension beyond March 2019 as 50-50, and that’s being optimistic.
You should include Dubya declaring Mission Accomplished.
Methinks
Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
26 June, 2017 at 1:13 am
“I notice my comment has been taken down. WOS indulging in censorship now? I’ve heard of confirmation bias, but this is pathetic.”
No. What happened – as you’d know if you’d bothered to READ THE COMMENT RULES – is that people’s first comments have to be manually moderated as an anti-spam measure, but all the other ones after that are automatically approved. And if it’s a Sunday, and I’m also on holiday, then that manual moderation might take a few hours.
However, since you’ve been such a dick about it, and not read the rules before commenting despite a giant bold warning to do so, I’m not going to approve your first comment anyway.
That genuinely made me laugh. Which I needed after a pretty crap day.
Well done Rev.
@ Liz g – I got it. Don’t worry!
@ bugsbunny – let’s hope there isn’t another election or referendum called soon or we will find Outlander can’t be broadcast for “technical” reasons. Nicola better watch what she says at FMQs!
@ yesindyref2 – BPC is portrayed as a bit of a spoilt brat in Outlander. Now Diane Gabaldon is pretty meticulous about research so I assume there is some historical evidence.
Thing is, if we were a normal country with a broadcasting service, people would produce all sorts of dramas reflecting back our history and present. Writing about our past is specifically forbidden by the BBC rules for writers.
PacMan, same BBC fourth estate’s treated the EU much the same way they misreport and don’t report Scots gov, whoever is in government, although without their full on monstering of the SNP. They’ve done it to the EU for decades now. Most people have no idea what the EU is or does, here in the BBC zone. Its always been London centrist BBC, London, England, USA, royals, in BBC newsrooms, since the late 70’s.
If you’re right, beeb gimps really will reap the wind.
@Dr Jim
Well said Jim, that’s cheered me up this Monday morning. The SNP leadership are doing a brilliant job. When the time comes and the YES movement gets rolling, the combination of the two will be unstoppable.
I have been having a quiet chuckle at the idea of honorary Colonel Ruth. I don’t think the Army is taking her appointment all that seriously.
And here’s why. Several years ago, the Sunday Times magazine – this might even have been back in the days when Oor Andra was Editor and still seen as a serious journalist – ran a piece over several pages, on all the uniforms the Duke of Rothesay had thanks to his various honorary colonelships.
Some remarkably Ruritanian kit he had too. Then, we must never forget, the good old Earl of Wessex and the Harry Lauder tribute outfit he loves to wear each Trooping the Colour,as honorary colonel of the London Scottish, plus that colourful ensemble, as honorary colonel of the Wessex Yeomanry, who, as far as I know, last fought under Alfred the Great, which he wears each Rememberance Sunday.
These are real toff’s uniforms, meant to be worn by real toffs. In contrast putting “Honorary Colonel” Davidson is bog standard camaflague fatiges simply shows, while the Tories may have issued orders she is to be bummed-up as someone important – to the Army, she is just another, here today, gone tomorrow, squaddie – albeit a pretendy one.
Capella @ 4.57am
Writing about our past is specifically forbidden by BBC rules for writers.
This ‘feels’ right…. I can’t recall ever seeing any programmes about:
John Knox, and the advent of universal education
The national covenant
The Scottish Enlightenment
‘The Union’
Just to pick a few topics off the top of my head. (And none of these topics were EVER taught at school!)
But is there evidence to back up your assertion? Then again, so much can be decided on ‘a nod and a wink’ in meetings.
Davidson is ridiculous. She couldn’t even run for a bus. Craven liar. Wasting public time and money. There is one then another three come along together. They couldn’t even get up a peak. The Tories have peaked. Downhill all the way. Pride comes before a fall. They believe their own publicity. No one else does. The majority do not believe the nonsense.
How much remuneration does Davidson get from the Army? Public money? Is it being declared? . The Services are required to be impartial and non political.,Diversity in the ranks. What message does Davidson sent out? Diversity and hatred. The far right facist/racist elements in the Tory Party have come to the fore. Davidson is a hypocrite and liar. DUP the Taliban. The Orange Lodge should be banned from it’s divisive, illegal, secret activities. Against the community and society. There is no place for secrecy in public life. Only equality under the Law. The Army recruitment figures could fall even further. As many people do not join the Army if they can get another job. Davidson is a divisive figure. Another illegal Tory decision.
Luke Graham more Tory corruption. To add to all the rest. .
That’s what the Tories stand for death and destruction. Killing and maiming millions of innocent people. Illegal wars. Sanctioning and starving the vulnerable. Taking food from the most vulnerable people. Trying to blame 5% of migrants for the troubles, the Westminster/Unionists have caused, They have caused trouble all over the world. Warmongering liars. Made the world a much less safe place.
Unionists caused the migration crisis in Europe. With the illegal wars. Westminster Unionists ‘psycho bastards’. The only reason people join the Unionist Parties is to mismappropriate and squander public money. The rest of the UK in £Trns of debt. Then try to give Scotland the bill for it.
Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. The Tories are guilty of it all. Enough is never enough for them. Despicable. They have ruined the world economy, They want to cause a recession and depression. They depress people and cause mental health problems. Everyone is worried sick because of the Brexit mess. Cold, worried, hungry people can’t sleep and get sick.
The Tory/Unionists have peaked. They couldn’t even get up a peak. Been shown for what they are. Despicable greedy, lying cowards. Trying to ruin the world economy. The Bonfire of the vanities.
Corbyn is not the messiah, The Emporer has no clothes. Things will only get worse. If people do not vote SNP, SNP. Vote for Independence in the EU. Stand up for Scotland. Against the corruption greed and dishonesty of Unionist liars. Destroying the world economy and killing innocent vulnerable people. Try and make some sense of it. Do what is right.
The greens collude with the Unionists for Office and remuneration. They are hypocritical liars. Join and enable Unionists to waste public money like there is no tomorrow. On grotesque non mandated projects, Ruining cities centres. Colluding with landowners. Reneging on every green policies. Built up city monstrosities of no values. Traffic chaos and high emission instead of pedestrianisation, green spaces Enabling Unionists to cut essential budgets, wasting public money and cutting public jobs. With a casting vote.
The minority Greens are dishonourable. Against the majority wishes and the public interest. The greens are a small interest pressure group with the most unpopular policies. The most unpopular Party and no wonder. They do not practice what they preach. They talk the talk, but do not walk the walk. They could cost Scotland Independence support because of their dubious, devious colluding behaviour.
Why are pensioners from other towns not allowed to use the Trams with off peak (bus) travel passes? They paid for it. It is under subscribed. It would increase off peak use. The wealthiest City in Scotland has public subsidised transport. Many in rural areas haven’t got an adequate bus service because of unionist party policies. Not priorising and providing the essential services.
The Unionists repealing the Football Offensive Act will lose them support. A bad Law but it works. It is the only thing that has done. That is why a minority roar. Singing despicable songs and participating in nasty behaviour. In the name of sport? Is a question of sport. Bring the game into disrepute. No wonder the terraces are empty and becoming even more. The Clubs in massive debt. Ripping off the punters. Subsidies with public money. Serious abuse concerns which were swept into the long grass for years. The HMRC taxman cometh in 2019. Survival of the fittest subsidised with public money.
The Unionists are not keen to obey UK Law and pay UK taxes. HMRC and Westminster unionists are not fit for purpose or public office. They are a shambles. It could get even worse. If May and her cronies are not out of there soon. The UK government is a shambles. Brexit. The Tories will negotiate a settlement which will cost more for less rights with more regulation and red tape. There is nothing surer. The ‘psycho bastards’. There own description. Or the vegetables as some alternatives have described them They are totally out of touch. They get away with killing vulnerable people.
Minimum pricing could be passed soon. At the London Court in July It must uphold Scottish Law or break the Union settlement. Miminum pricing opposed by the unionists who just wanted people to die of alcohol poisoning. It will improve public health, cut crime, football offensive behaviour abd save public money. There is still Breach of the peace and giving offence for football violence and ignorance. If the Police use the powers they are given.
bugsbunny says:
26 June, 2017 at 1:31 am
More4 is broadcasting Outlander at 9.00 pm on Thursday 29th June. About bloody time.
Lets hope the dinosaurs in Tory party and the puritans in the DUP don’t have a secret bill coming out today that bans it from being shown!?
Looking forward to it more so for the errm free history lesson rather than the naughty scenes I believe are in it lol
@ David P – yes there is. Decades ago, I read the BBC booklet “Writing for the BBC”. In the Scotland Region it stated (from memory) ” do not write about a way of life no longer lived in Scotland. It will not be accepted. The BBC has texts from the past which we can adapt if required.”
That advice was only for the Scottish Region and nowhere else. So you will not see Scottish versions of Poldark, Call the Midwife, Downton Abbey etc etc because they all depict ways of life no longer lived.
Dr Finlay’s Casebook was based on the novels of A J Cronin. A text already written and deemed safe.
That booklet was still available from Amazon when I last checked. But I doubt they still publish it in these days of “producers choice”.
@Dr Jim
Well said, the Hindsight Gazette would easily turn into a tome, with all these commentators at the moment.
Just read a very depressing SNP piece by Robin McAlpine, who is now self appointed architect of #indyref2 apparently.
I don’t mind these ideas or discussions, but they just can’t do it without completely shitting all over their elected government, who by all measures, have moved this country forward.
Well I think it’s brilliant.
Nothing would take the smile off my face and chuckle in heart away if Field Marshall Davidson was made to wear that uniform every single day, at every public engagement, and henceforth never be seen without it. Down the shops, at the beach, Sunday School picnic, First Ministers Questions… I want to see her wearing that beret even on the radio.
She’ll be odds on favourite for a stunning Scottish victory next time she’s playing hide and seek in the woods with Theresa.
Packets of crisps everywhere will look at Davidson and say “wow, now that’s the sack of potatoes I want to be when I grow up”.
Exact quote,
“…the requirement is for plays…which represent some stimulating contemporary situations and have a Scottish background, theme or characters. Historical costume drama is rarely required, as a stock of suitable scripts is already available or will be produced by adaptations from books. Plays of a ‘home-spun’ kind, set in the countryside and depicting a life no longer lived in Scotland will not be accepted.”
Page 56/57 of Writing for the BBC compiled by Norman Longmate.
This advice does not appear in the other regions sections.
Breeks@9:25
She does look like a sack of tattles. I hope we get a picture of her trying to get up onto her “leetle tank” Will she fit through the hole??
Farmers better watch out for their wheat fields if she decides to roll around in them. Crop circles in Scotland!!
Capella – interesting that you mentioned John Prebble. He was as you wrote an Englishman – born in Middlesex in 1915, raised in Saskatchewan. He became interested in Culloden as he was raised in a mainly Scots township in Canada. His book “Culloden” was written in the early 60s. I read it as a young man in the late 60s. I knew no Scottish history at the time but have since then never stopped reading it. Interestingly, in view of the claims that Scott invented Highland dress, on the cover of the paperback version of Prebble’s “Culloden” is the painting “An incident in the Rebellion of 1745” by David Morier (1705-1770), clearly depicting Jacobites in tartan trews and kilts as modelled by prisoners.
@Liz g says:
=============
No one ever said being Scottish is a Victorian invention. What is stated – with some truth – is that what is sometimes called “tartan and shortbread” version of Scottishness (think Harry Lauder and his ilk) was invented in Victorian times (starting with Scott). Of course, like all myths, this invented Scottishness had some truth behind it but it is a distorted version of the truth.
@David P says:
26 June, 2017 at 8:29 am
Capella @ 4.57am
This ‘feels’ right…. I can’t recall ever seeing any programmes about:
John Knox, and the advent of universal education
The national covenant
The Scottish Enlightenment
‘The Union’
Actually there has been (BBC4 I think) a program on the Scottish enlightenment. Although I don’t recall the other too topics being done there was an excellent program on the reformation in Scotland on BBC 2 some years ago. And there have been other programmes on Scottish history although there’s a good case for saying not nearly enough, just as there is not nearly enough good Scottish produced material broadcast in general.
@Dave McEwan Hill
my comment to you was more about you saying that,
“We probably would have won one very shortly after that”
which I assumed you meant that we/Nicola had missed a chance somehow of holding and winning a second referendum soon after the first one,
and was wondering in what circumstances you thought we might `won one` could have occurred.
As I think Nicola maybe said,
`Our quest for independence stands upon the edge of a knife,stray but a little and it will fail to the ruin of all Scotland,
Yet hope remains while the company is true`.
@Capella 4:57am
To be honest here, Scotland will not be able to produce masses of quality drama from the income of the licence fee (maybe around £320m). Outlanders budget is way outside anything the BBC can produce, even for the network. The budget for things like Poldark is tiny in comparison.
They would need to negotiate co-productions, but these require compromise on how the drama is made. Scotland would be in the same position as somewhere like Ireland, not necessarily producing lots of drama for home consumption but using the locations for the international market.
Of course you could increase the licence fee if you want more quality, but I suspect there will be resistance. The mass of people will still agree to pay Sky/Virgin/BT substantially more to watch mostly US material.
As for the Outlander series, I believe it does not follow the books religiously but as with all dramatisations will condense or heighten events for more effect. Remember it is primarily made for a US audience and if the viewing figures don’t hold up it will be cancelled in an instant.
Response to David Torrance article in the Herald: “SNP’s soft Brexit quest leaves independence in strange place”
As a YES campaigner and YES voter who has not stopped believing independence is the best choice for Scotland, I have this to say:
I would be delighted if Nicola Sturgeon announces:
1. The SNP continues to believe independence is the best option for Scotland and the SNP will continue to support Independence.
2. Brexit talks have begun and at this point in time this must take precedence.
3. We are currently part of the UK, that is negotiating to leave the EU / Single Market
4. Scottish sovereignty within the UK must be asserted, so that Scotland’s economic and democratic needs are respected and met.
5. The Scottish Govt will hold a referendum asking this question: Should Scotland’s Parliament have the final say on matters affecting Scotland?
If Scotland votes YES to that, the Scottish Govt will have the political mandate to demand the Scottish Govt negotiates on behalf of Scotland with regard to Brexit. Whether we Leave the EU and Single Market or both.
7. If Scotland leaves the EU, Scotland will decided which of the EU powers – such as fishing and agriculture – she wants repatriated to Scotland to be administered by Holyrood.
8. The existing devolution arrangements / Scotland Act will be scrapped. From now on, Scotland will have the final say on all legislation where it affects Scotland.
9. Scotland will decide which powers she retains and which powers she devolves to Westminster to be administered at a UK level.
10. However, Scotland would retain the power to recall, amend or veto legislative powers that it has devolved to Westminster.
11. For 40 years Westminster accepted the EU had the final say on UK legislation.
12. Scotland has always been sovereign, that sovereignty has not been properly reflected in how Westminster has operated the Union. We have had a Union of domination. Finally, we must have a Union of equals. A partnership of cooperation and mutual consent.
13. The will of the people is sovereign. A Westminster Govt that rejects the will of the people of Scotland would be unacceptable to the majority in Scotland, whether they voted YES or NO in 2014.
14. If Westminster rejects the democratic reformation of Scotland’s role within the Union, then it would be time for an independence referendum, as Scotland’s democratic mandate will have been rejected.
@ jfngw – I wouldn’t expect a wealth of Outlanders although it is so popular all over the world that it would bring in millions all by itself. The BBC makes several billion from overseas sales of its products – forget the exact sum, sorry.
The spin offs from having an indigenous production company would generate much more drama, documentary, factual, historical programmes made in Scotland. Without that, we have no means of depicting our lived reality, which is a consequence of our history and culture.
Sinead O’Connor puts it very ell in her song about the Famine. There has to be remembering.
link to youtube.com
Outlander is watched all over the world (same as many Scottish productions) A Canadian writer. A 40Million disaporia. Plus many interested participants. A vast audience worldwide. The production costs are more than covered by the revenues. It does not need the BBC to invest in these production, They can more than stand alone with interested investment. Sony etc. Sony should not have been manipulating with Cameron on Scottish viewers – viewing rights. That is illegal manipulation of (copy right) and Scottish/UK viewing rights. Censorship. Even though there was alternatives at extra cost to the consumer.
Anything can be beamed in from anywhere on the internet. It makes it impossible for any Gov to control the net or content. Or broadcasting outlets. Unless commercial pressure can be brought to bear by advertising rights or commercial decisions not to be identified with some material. Leading to lose of revenues to internet providers/company owners. Or commercial activities can be declined by Banks activity control by certain Gove. Laws to contain banks involvement in providing credit payment facilities etc.
Governments provide business licences to trade. On the grounds of business law/rules depending on the Gov of the different countries.
The (SNP) Scottish Gov is investing in film/video production. Premises, skills etc, which will more pay for itself. In returns and exports. Tourism etc. Music, film and drama. Brilliant, amazing scenery. Unique. A vast market.
Scotland has a long colourful history to explore and relate. Scotland has influenced the whole world. Scottish tradition and discovery shaped the modern world. An amazing achievement for such a small country. Writing, TV, film, music, arts and tradition goes to make up great export, tourism, film opportunity.
Scottish history and traditions is just amazing. Quite unique. Interests many people worldwide. Scottish exploration, Laws, traditions and migration shaped the modern world. The history has it all for great story telling. Scotland was one of the first countries in the world to have tertiary education.
@ COLIN ALEXANDER
But how would this “Scottish Sovereignty within the Union” be achieved? WM has ignored and rebuffed every attempt at making the Union more democratic for Scotland? That’s why the only option is independence.
I don’t disagree. Scotland cannot force WM to respect a democratic mandate from the people of Scotland. Ultimately, it may be impossible to achieve, but that can be a positive thing too.
So, it’s empty demands?! A waste of time. A distraction from independence. How can that be a “positive thing”?
Currently the SNP has been demanding Scottish democratic will is respected, that Scotland has a seat at Brexit etc. That if we leave the EU, those powers reserved to the EU will be returned to Holyrood, as they are not WM reserved powers. The UK Govt has ignored them all or rejected those demands.
So, that’s just the same as what you are saying. What’s the difference between WM treating the Scot Govt’s current demands and your proposed ideas with contempt? Works out the same: Scotland, get stuffed.
I’m suggesting a referendum for all of Scotland’s people, not based on party political lines. But a democratic mandate for authority, for sovereignty, for all of the people of Scotland. That would be everyone, whether YES, NO or don’t know in 2014 till now.
If the people vote YES, that Scotland should have the final say on matters affecting Scotland within the Union, that would be an incredibly powerful political mandate from all of Scotland’s people.
If the UK Govt reject that mandate, they are not only rejecting a mandate given by SNP and Green voters. They are rejecting a mandate that I believe would be given by people of all political parties and none. A mandate given by people who voted YES in 2014. But crucially, a mandate for Scottish sovereignty backed by people who also voted NO.
If the UK Govt has rejected such a mandate and is denying Scotland the opportunity to decide for herself on these EU/Single Market and EU powers ( which would be the immediate issue needing to be dealt with by the Scottish Parliament / Scot Govt),
then, if, required, following these steps in the intervening period, I believe many former NO voters and former YES voters would be very unhappy at THEIR democratic mandate being rejected.
I believe that would strengthen support for independence if, as a last resort to achieve democratic sovereignty, we are required to vote for independence.
As former NO voters would also have had their support for Scottish Sovereignty WITHIN the Union also rejected, it may make them come to the conclusion that the Union does not serve Scotland’s needs.
@ Bill McLean – yes it’s good that John Prebble was English. He can’t be accused of being parochial or a nasty nat! He uses research far better than journalists do today. And he lived in Saskatchewan as you say.
Our Universities should produce a definitive History of Scotland. I have all 16 volumes of the Oxford History of England. Each volume is edited by an eminent historian such as AJP Taylor. They cover Roman Britain up to 1945. Perhaps a new volume is out covering post war Britain.
They are a lively and informative read and a good source of material if you want to check out some aspect of bygone life – in England.
As Liz g points out above, if tartan didn’t exist, why was it necessary to proscribe it after 1746? Why do we have to rely on Englishmen living in Saskatchewan to inform us about our history?
Grouse Beater @ 12.27 am Thank you for the link.
‘Meeting Nicola’
An excellent read, felt as if I was there with you =)
Capella @ 4.57
It’s a bit of a point in it all though!
Diana Gabaldon … Outlander….
Would have researched the official version of Bonnie prince Charlie.
That’s why he would fit the “British” version.
DUP and Tories have sealed a deal!
Hold on to your sashes folks it could be a rough ride!
Capella and Scottish history seekers,
Agree, not only does Scotland suffer from a democratic deficit, but also, I have long suspected, a lack of a truthful and full description of our country’s history.
Professor Donaldson of Edinburgh University did write several huge volumes on Scottish history which I did read many years ago and found to be pretty heavy going. Worth a reread now.
My father was brilliant at retelling the story of whatever part of Scotland we drove through and I always tried to do that for my children too.
That, and the songs we listened to ( The Corries and The Macalmans!) and Nigel Tranter’s novels helped me pick up the gist of events that were never touched on in school.
My knowledge of the history of my own country feels like such a patchwork. That can’t be right.
@ Liz g – I don’t know what Diane Gabaldon based her characterisation of BPC on. I do know, from a video about her writing of Outlander, that she goes to a lot of trouble to make the detail historically accurate. For real historical characters she goes to journals and things they wrote themselves.
See youtube for many videos of interviews and talks. Here’s the Edinburgh International Book Festival interview – 1 hr.
link to youtube.com
Meindevon @ 11.21 am
Help ma kilt!
Capella (whispers) you made THE LIST =)
a marriage made in hell between the tories and the dup .
if it’s only a confidence and supply deal , why does anything need to be signed ? does this mean a real coalition between both ? .
tories playing with fire and more bloody chaos to follow .
Capella @ Bill McLean – yes it’s good that John Prebble was English. He can’t be accused of being parochial or a nasty nat! He uses research far better than journalists do today. And he lived in Saskatchewan as you say.
______
Pretty bad state of affairs when we have to justify our own history. Really wish more folk would wake up to the fact that this Union has not served Scotland well – nor ever likely to in future.
Independence will only be the start of the healing process it will take many years for truth to be told.
‘Really wish more folk would wake up to the fact that this Union has not served Scotland well’
It was never meant to, it was a colonisation process.
@jfngw says: 25 June, 2017 at 9:20 pm:
” … It’s really sad when a Scot feels they have to adopt the colonial position, but worse when they get it so wrong.”
Indeed so, jfngw. Roothie would have done better sticking with the, “Missionary”, Position”.
“BBC Scotland Tells Lies” – you’re on your last warning. Any more of this McCarthyite pish about who is and isn’t a troll and you’ll be blanket IP-banned, understand?
I see that warmonger Theresa May and her mate Fallon may be charged with conspiring to commit war crimes using Nuclear weapons. You’ll find the full article on the Herald.
‘The UK Attorney General’s Office (AGO) is investigating whether the Prime Minister, Theresa May, and the Defence Secretary, Michael Fallon, can be taken to court for conspiring to commit war crimes with Trident nuclear weapons.
Nearly 400 people from five campaign groups are bidding to prosecute the Westminster government for breaching criminal law by being prepared to unleash a devastating nuclear strike on Moscow or other foreign cities from submarines based on the Clyde.
Recent statements by May and Fallon that they would be willing to launch Trident missiles show that they are planning “indiscriminate mass slaughter”, campaigners say. They have begun prosecutions in local courts, but been told that the Attorney General’s permission is needed to proceed…..”
AND ……
Theresa May could be taken to court over her plan to arrange a deal with the Democratic Unionist Party.
”A team of experienced lawyers is planning to apply for a judicial review of the Tory-DUP minority government deal once it is officially confirmed by UK government.
They claim that any deal would breach the Good Friday peace agreement…….
The Guardian reports that lawyers have already found a lead claimant to spearhead the legal case. This lead claimant will play a similar role to that of Gina Miller in the Article 50 case that was heard both in the High Court and Supreme Court last year.”
link to uk.businessinsider.com
The DUP taliban are being rewarded with their criminality, racism and bigotry to prop up the corrupt May government. Partners in crime killing people all over the world and wasting Trns. They are just despicable. The DUP have had their criminality rewarded to keep them quiet by £Billions of overfunding since the 1923 illegal Partition of Ireland by Lloyd George, a Liberal. Against the majority wishes and the public interest.
The DUP should be put in prison or outlawed. The Taliban Wasting £Billions of public money. Going up in smoke. The Bonfire of the Vanities. A Law unto thenselves. Getting away with murder. They do not obey UK/International Law, but want never ending handouts of UK taxpayers money. It is just a disgrace. Greedy parasites. They break International Law and destroy the workd economy with their appalling behaviour. The have been receiving £Billions of overpayment of public money for years. Funded up to Norwegian levels. Taking all of Scottish Oil/Gas revenues and wasting it.
Foster has already wasted £1/2Billion illegally giving her cronies handouts. Illegal Fuel subsidies going up in smoke.
The Westminster Tories have been illegally taxing the Scottish Oil/Gas sector at 40%. Since Jan 2016. Losing Scotland £Bilions and thousands of jobs. Deliberately. Osbourne/DAlexander. Scotland could have had full employment and raised more revenues.
Check this out from the Belfast Telegraph. The Guardian are saying NI will get £1 billion as part of the DUP/Tory deal, but it looks like it’s actually £1.5 billion (and the population of NI is only 1.8 million). The article links to the actual DUP/Tory agreement – not that they intend to devolve corporate tax rates. The DUP want to bring it down to match the Republic’s 12.5%. How will Dublin (and Edinburgh) react to this?
And does this have any implications for the Barnett Formula
Story
click here
Many Scottish universities have excellent Scottish medieval history section/dept and cultural centres. Appreciated world wide. It should get out to the wider public. It is really interesting, enthusiastic and enlightening. Relatively basic details and excellent stories. It can appeal to a wide audience. Especially youngsters. Relevantly adapted. It is being revised in teacher training.
All teachers should have basic additional needs training. Unionist’s Councils should stop cutting these facilities. Borrowing and spending on non mandated wasted projects of no value. Against the majority wishes and the public interest.
Ghillie @ 11.25am
Good point about the Corries and Scottish history. The guy who runs the Folk Group at Opportunities in Retirement in Ayr recently did a terrific presentation on Jacobean history, illustrated by some Corries’ songs.
As he said: “Ronnie and Roy taught me more about Scottish history than any school teacher ever did”.
The DUP/Tory coalition will not last. There is too much opposition. Some MP’s will change ranks. It just takes a relative small numbers to bring May and her cronies down. People are just sick of this appalling carry on. It is absolutely despicable. The Westminster unionists are breaking the Law. Too many times.
I read and downloaded an article in the Torygraph on 28 Jun 2009
By Simon Johnson
Which claimed that Scots fought ‘in bright yellow war shirts not Braveheart kilts’.
Medieval Scottish soldiers fought wearing bright yellow war shirts dyed in horse urine rather than the tartan plaid depicted in the film Braveheart, according to new research.
Dr Clare Downham of Aberdeen University said, “The tartan kilt as we know it today is part of a romantic and more modern imagining of Scotland’s past”
And historian Fergus Cannan stated that the Scots armies who fought in battles like Bannockburn, and Flodden Field would have looked very different to the way they have traditionally been depicted.
Wow…who knew that by voting for a Scottish Tory MP you would be ensuring extra funding for Northern Ireland….hell’s slapping…but do these voters care ?…..probably not….more pain for no gain seems to be the general consensus for proud Scots but….
Over to Mundell and Davidson….unless they go missing while in…..inaction….as per.
So DUP have signed an agreement with Mayhem and being rewarded with £1 billion over 2 years. What do Scotland and Wales get? Nothing. Mayhem would sell her soul to keep her position. She needs to go !
Oh jings!
Maybe worth posting again:
You know, the politics of the UK is in chaos. Full on, full tilt, train wreck mode. The UKs populations and society are fractured beyond obvious means of repair. There is very real economic misery, depression and hardship wherever you look, and this in a 21st century union awash with wealth. The priorities of the Westminster system of government have never been more transparent, or more exposed. What they themselves have done to the populations of the UK, never more apparent.
Their narrative. Their manipulations of public opinion. Their ‘big boy’s politics’. Their power struggles. Their manufactured divisions and their greed.
That there are those who support this system, its appalling and historic inequalities and the effects it has on the lives of others is beyond doubt and says a lot more about their humanity than any amount of debate or argument. It’s also between them and a mirror.
There are good people here on this site. They’re concerned, engaged, informed, intelligent, often funny and ALWAYS determined in the face of the worst. THAT tells the reader what they need to know about their humanity.
So make a choice on who you’d rather spend your time reading or talking to.
If there are those who cause you distress when reading, walk on by and look for a familiar and friendlier face. Look to where you’ll find a warm welcome, an intelligent and reasoned comment or insight. Or mibbies just a silly joke or a kind word when the world is caving in around you.
Life’s too short and we’re too damn busy trying to get through it in one piece.
Save yourself some stress and leave the policing to the author. If you don’t like the cut of a poster, then move on as soon as you see the name. A couple of comments is all it takes to size someone up in your own opinion as worth your time or not. Find friends and faces you can talk to, or take informed comment from and above all…
… ensure you enjoy the experience.
Most folk here are friends or friendly (shouty fallouts among friends aside) and the vast majority want exactly the same thing. To make where we live a better, more sustainable, peaceful, ‘strong and stable???’ (cough) place for everyone. A nation where fully empowered government puts food on the table. I reckon we’re capable of that.
Not a complicated wish list tbh, but I’m not a complicated guy and that idea suits me just peachy.
Right! Get on with your reading then.
Well at least we will be off the ” pesky scrounging bloody jocks stealing all our money”radar now with this deal with the bright orange brigade..
Disgrace of a bloody PM
If the various sums of money being quoted in order to buy DUP support are true then doesn’t that fall under a budgetary category. Simply signing off on that kind of “investment” isn’t up to May on her own and must surely be put before the house. At which point there’s probably going to be a backbench revolt.
@ ghillie – I’m so clever
Hello there sailor
Hi there Lili Marlene
Good morning school girls
Welcome to the team
Beehive hairdo forty-five on the hip
Patrolwoman Saunders don’t you give her no lip
Took me to the station for a breath test
Then back to her bedroom for some house arrest
Women in uniform sometimes they look so cold
Women in uniform but oooh they feel so warm
Flying to my hometown on a 747
Stewardess made me feel like I’m in heaven
Looking up the aisle trying to see what I could see
She leaned over and said coffee tea or me
White apron and brown leather shoes
The nurse at the clinic left my heart all bruised
Broke my left leg and sprained my right
Now she takes my temperature every night
Women in uniform sometimes they look so cold
Women in… yeah whatever
@jfngw says:
26 June, 2017 at 10:06 am
@Capella 4:57am
=================
Any decent drama cost money but it needn’t cost multi-millions. Imagination and talent can overcome obstacles of costs (unless of course you want to produce some massive scifi/fantasy epic) by using limited resource cleverly. I’ve seen plenty of expensive productions which were a waste of my time; money alone doesn’t make a thing good.
I’d think a good number of quality dramas (one-off or series) are possible, not on a low budget but reasonable one. They would probably require the use of up-and-coming actors combined with lesser lights (but still good actors) – as the use of star names is a big expense. But it could be done.
link to scotlibdems.org.uk
Seems the rules on Honorary ranks are more relaxed.
However she, at least, is time served and worthy of respect.
I agree with guy on Wings Twitter:
‘ You don’t want to pay Barnet cash?…Fine..
We’ll just hold on to yer brand spankin’ new
aircraft-carrier.Sorted!
Capella, Ghillie & stu macs
Capella – what a line about not representing Scotland’s past!
Stu macs – thanks also for your insights.
Explains why Rab C Nesbitt, chewin’ the fat and still game are all so similar.
Don’t get me wrong, they’re all brilliant in their own ways, but the idea that this is the only Scotland that exists? Mince!
Re Norman Longmate and ‘restrictions’ on Scottish Drama.
Here’s a link to his obituary – he died last year.
link to archive.is
“..before moving to the BBC in 1963, originally in schools broadcasting, but settling into the corporation’s internal “civil service”, the secretariat, where, among other things, he wrote speeches for the director general.”
His “Writing For The BBC” book – straight from the secretariat’s mouth – was presumably the standard guide for over 20 years
link to archive.is
Be interesting to know if the Scottish advice was the same throughout.
@ mike cassidy
Be interesting to know if the Scottish advice was the same throughout.
I think it was. I first read it in the 70s and was struck by that advice. I have a copy published in 1983 which is where I took that quote from.
BTW you can still get it from Amazon for a penny.
link to tinyurl.com
Roy Moore says:
25 June, 2017 at 8:00 pm
“I notice my comment has been taken down. WOS indulging in censorship now? I’ve heard of confirmation bias, but this is pathetic.”
Which one do you mean, maybe the one that’s just appeared?
Stupid prick.
“Adolf NEVER as far as I am aware, wore a Wermacht, Luftwaffe or Kreigsmarine uniform, he always wore a Nazi Party uniform, or an SS one. The SS was the Nazi Party’s arm of the army.”
…except for when he served in the Wehrmacht, of course.
“Adolf NEVER as far as I am aware, wore a Wermacht, Luftwaffe or Kreigsmarine uniform, he always wore a Nazi Party uniform, or an SS one.”
AFAIK Hitler’s uniform was none of those things. It was a Hitler uniform, unique to him.
@ Capella
Longmate: “Writing for the BBC” – purchased.
Know your enemy!
heedtracker says @ 26 June, 2017 at 6:13 am
My comments about the news media profession is a crude and simplistic one. However, I was highlighting the BS they have bought into in that they think they are the upholders of truth and western democratic traditions.
There are many factors at work which determines their mindset. You have correctly highlighted the Anglocentric (London) metropolitan bubble and to a point it is the public school system which many of these are brought from which I have no doubt drums into them this Rule Britannia nonsense that pervades through our society.
In terms of shooting themselves in the foot with supporting Brexit and potentially destroying their retirement, a lot of individuals involved in the news media profession will be highly educated and intelligent but that doesn’t mean they are not smart enough to get caught in the herd mentality like the rest of us.
One of the things that hit me with indyref ’14 was those ordinary people you would normally walk by in the street and not give a second glance but had given such profound, thoughtful and well structured arguments. The other thing was how stupid and inept quite a few of our supposed betters in the political were. These news media types may have the brains but they just don’t have the common sense. If they get burned due to Brexit then it is poetic justice for them doing the establishments dirty work.
Maybe she is trying to emulate her hero (no not Eddie).
@ David P – a sound investment! Let us know if the advice to Scotland is any different in your edition.
Roger,
“That’s true, and illustrates the differenc between a FPtP election and a referendum. What happened after the Indyref was that the Yes side consolidatd behind the SNP but the No vote was still split between 3 parties.”
The 37% SNP vote we have just seen is probably the core Yes vote as the unionists who vote for the SNP simply for good governance deserted them for fear of a second independence referendum.
There are some independence supporters who vote for Labour but getting the extra 13% needed is almost impossible.
Especially as we waste scarce time and resources trying to convince those who are highly unlikely to be convinced: the selfish middle classes, the British nationalist elderly, the thugs and the English.
Instead of uplifting the downtrodden folks in the schemes who will not let us down when the time comes.
Many within us too are too stupid to be independent.
Just seen the arse end of an interview with whom I suppose was Brian Donahue reporting from Irvine about High rise Flats. Did I hear right, when he was blaming the Government for the Flats Fire Risk. Would that be the Scottish government that didn’t exist before 1999, or the SNP Government that didn’t take power until 2007? These flats are nearly 50 years old, being built in 1968. Didn’t the Prime Minister at that time smoke a pipe and is now buried in the Isles of Scilly.?
As i said I only seen the end of this, but his face was twisted like Margaret Cullen when she mentions the SNP.
Macart @ 1.05 pm
Amen to all you said = )
Please repost that lovely supportive kind advice again and again.
Yes, lots of friends here, vocal and quiet all offering what they have to give.
We do all share the same goal
Independence for Scotland.
A good future for all = )
Socrates MacSporran @ = )
A fair few years ago I had the incredible priviledge of meeting both Nigel Tranter and Ronnie Brown and was able to thank them both personaly for helping me get through my Scottish History 1 exam!
I had to sing the whole of Stirling Bridge (silently in my head!) to answer that question! It gave me the names and sequence of events I so desperately needed.
A joy to meet them both = )
Our songs are our living history. Sing on
And jings, we are living our history now!!
She looks like she’s bluttered, hard night out on the town? Probably thinking, I went out in a dress and heels and came home in an army uniform? Whit week is it again?