Kezia For Independence
Posted on
January 05, 2016 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
The tweets below are all genuine, and taken from the Scottish Labour Twitter account earlier today during its live-tweeting of Kezia Dugdale’s speech. We’ve rarely heard a more compelling and concise argument for a Yes vote. We take our hats off to her.
The most sensible thing she has uttered, during her tenure as branch manager.
Well done Kez.
Rev. Have you taken those quotes out of context somehow?
I can’t keep up with Labour these days if they are accurate.
Maybe she knows what is coming if the Tories have the Eu referendum in June. Interesting times peoples.
I think Johann Lamont has had a word with her.
The light has finally been seen! 😀 ;D
Oooh, its exciting!
Cribbed out of the White Paper.
Someone’s obviously been reshuffling the tweet order.
Oh, what?
They haven’t?
Her dad will be pleased . Jeremy not so much! Sit do on at the back.
BAFTA Awards Britannica are going to celebrate all things British. Have they no ambition?
Gaun yersel, Kez!!
How strange. Will be fascinating to hear explain what she meant.
The time stamps on the first three are out.
Viva Kezia!
Private Fraser enters room, “….
“It can’t be done. It can’t be afforded. It is too difficult…”
Is it just me or does this sound like a rehash of too wee, too poor, too stupid…but said with a cleverly applied nuance so that we all do not smell the heady stench of hypocrisy…
I think I have sussed this Rev. Was she actually making a speech and was INADVERTENTLY outling a case for independence in true Kezia fashion ,whilst trying to do the opposite ?
William Burroughs would approve of this article.
There’s only so much dioffthear abody can take
Whit! Is this for real.Whit’s going on the day?
First we get the Herald taking the Rev’s name in vain and tellin blatant porkies. Then Labour Hame and old Drunken Haversack touting the gorgeous one as some sort of savior for SLAB. I’m sure that’ll work out well. NOT.
Noo we’ve got oor very ain Kez coming out with her plans for the use (again) of APD money for first time buyers, and then seemingly for independence.Eh!
We still seem to be awaiting Corbyn’s reshuffle. As someone remarked on twitter it looks as if the DFS sale will be finished before we ever get the announcement.
Bloody hell, I’m getting confused wi a’ o’ this. It’s no good fur us auld yins ye ken. HELP.
More nonsense from the Herald/Unionist. Total ignorance. Quotes from Unionists on the state of the Oil sector. Leaving out the relevant fact the Westminster’s 75% take. Now down to 60%. While Multinationals asking vast profits tax evade through the City of London. Total hypocrites. Thousands have lost their jobs because of Tory policies. It makes people really angry. The Thatcher revelations. Not a peep.
The ignorant Unionists and the ‘deficit’. Scotland raises £54Billion+. Total taxes raised in the UK £515Billion. The rest of the UK raises £461Billion divide by 11 = £42Bilion (pro rata). Scotland loses £10Billion+ to the Union. Trident/illegal wars, debt repayments on money it doesn’t borrow or spend. The Tories have banned wind turbine, stopped CCS and coal production, no investment renewables. More fuel and energy has to be imported. Putting up the balance of payments deficit and the debt. Cut NHS funding and put up the debt. A Junior Doctor’s strike is planned in England.
The Unionist Parties are a complete shambles. May can’t come soon enough.
I’ve just read the whole speech, Christ in a microwave what a load of pish and jobby.
And what’s with the wanky wee twibbon about Tory TU laws, you didn’t want them devolved so fuck off…
Scottish Labour have finally realised that they need to win back many of their former supporters who voted YES last year. Failure to do that and they are completely sunk. What to do? Well the only option open is to try and convince enough of this group that it’s okay to support independence and vote Labour. Maybe even pretend, nudge nudge, wink wink, that KD and some of the Labour high heid yins actually support independence. This cunning ploy will fail miserably IMO, for the simple reason that KD cannot explain WHY it is okay for independence supporters to vote Labour. Something substantial (eg FFA) has to be on the table and we know that Labour are vehemently opposed to further powers fr Holyrood. Without this, few of those that deserted Labour in May 2015 will be persuaded to return to the fold.
That might explain where she has ‘been’ the last while – away seeing the light.
Thing is can she/SLAB be trusted or is it just another throw away ‘goody’ she knows she will not have to deliver on in an attempt to reduce the 2x SNP vote?
If she is serious it could be a huge game changer as far as indyref2 goes.
What will the msm have to say about that?! Funny some of the other side have started talking up the Tory vote, did they know what she was going to say?
I blame her parents and her schooling in Elgin.
SNP Dad Jeff obviously having a benign, settling influence.
Just need Scottish Labour to turn Indy and we are there – Go Kezia!
Just read her full speech ,and I was right.Bullshit from beginning to end.and giving all the things we could do in any event if independent .
The rest was padded with lies and deception. No real change then.
Her Dad must have got hold of her phone…or she’s still pished fae New Year.
Nicola really couldn’t put it any better! 😉
I wonder if KD and others in labour in Scotland have come to the dual conclusion that Scotland will only change for the better when foreign interference ends and labour can then have a chance of an electoral come back?
That said it could be the usual electoral ploy labour to appeal to those who have left them to return, even if only for a second preference vote. I doubt if I could ever trust them after their partnership with the tories in 2014.
I’m in the ‘can’t keep up with kez’ camp!
So can some of our more alert readers please update me…
Has Kezia dropped the promise to spend the money Raised from not collecting APD, on underprivileged school kids?
(if I remember it was give the head teachers an extra £1000 to spend on every child to bridge the gap between rich and poor kids)
If she has dropped this pledge, when and why?
At this stage in the bigger game there is only one way Labour could actually improve their position in May – become pro-Indy, or perhaps come out with some Indy Lite proposal. They would keep most of their existing support and get some back from the SNP.
They wouldn’t, would they!?
And, would they just lie about what they were offering?
Scary stuff!
Although this sounds like advocating, I do not trust SLAB one inch.
Remember the promise to get rid of the HoL, didnothing.
Don’t forget the lies re McCrone, the removal of 6ooosq m of the North sea.
They are not to be trusted, ever
And why would we trust a single word KD utters? I know it’s a new year, but I can’t believe the world has changed that much since a week ago.
I’ll believe it when I hear the words out of her mouth. “We should be an independent country”.
Until then, I hear nothing but soundbites and see nothing but the Labour party in Scotland trying to be all things to all people – yes, even the Tories.
Labour voters should have the right to know where she stands. Spit it out, woman. Are ye for independence or are ye just using the same old “we’re not the SNP but we’re not quite sure who WE are”.
Quotes from David Cameron since the indyref:
“We”
“never”
“intended”
“to”
“keep our promises”
“to Scotland.”
“Independence”
“for Scotland”
“is the right thing to do”.
Quotes from me this year:
“I’ve basically just done a bad copy of what Rev Stu did”.
The immediate Unionist mission is to deny the SNP a majority in May. If they lose their majority then independence is definitely on the back burner. It may not return for a second opportunity in most of our remaining lifetimes!
Labour could make grandiose offers now along some Indy Lite lines. These would require WM tio give Scotland their package. The Catch22 is that Labour will be in no position for 10-15-20 years to actually be called out to deliver from WM!
They could promise anything they like short of full Indy, which we take rather than need to be given.
Poor, wee, lass is just trying out her christmas slippers for flavour.
Her boss has been too busy to tell her what to say.
Having heard increasingly hysterical comments from journalists camped on his doorstep with nothing to report, I must say I am starting to get sneaking regard for the chap treating the press pack with the disdain that they merit.
Come on you lot!
Kaz makes a statement, just like Dim Jim and Lamont did to show us how there is an autonomous Scottish Labour party, and when
a Westminster Labour politician is asked about it, they immediately say this is not policy as we haven’t issued the
North Accounting Unit with their instructions yet.
You are in a bad why if you believe anything Dipity Dug or Labour tell you.
The wee soul likes to repeat like a parrot that Scotland deserves better while everything that SNP has done is better than anything Labour has done in the last 45 years.
PS Dippity, “we can afford it”? with all the cuts that your pal Cameron has imposed, and with all the cuts still to come, would you mind dropping a hint on where the extra cash will come for,
on top of your fantasy extra funding for the NHS, Education, Public Services, and how you get extra cash out of not changing the Air Passenger Duty?
Her new year resolution, to start telling the truth, didn’t last long then.
Has there ever in the field of Politics a so called party lead by such a idiot? Sorry Mr Dugdale but something is not quite right with your daughter.
They are at it! Slimy Unionist dirty tricks written all over the above.
Kezia’s tweets are vintage amorphous chameleon Slab taken to a new low.
Perhaps, her prose at least indicates how our rationale is slowly gaining currency.
Hmm, I do not believe anything that comes out of labour, nor do I think she is genuine, but may well think saying so will swing votes for slab. If she by some freak of nature they were returned to power or anywhere close to it they will then slowly back of the idea.
It is always smoke and mirrors with them, they cannot be trusted on any count, but they will tell any lies to get back in the running.Something feels very fishy about this sudden turn of events.
I think someone has just sussed that the Tories shafted them. Hell hath no fury etc. Either that or she is talking about getting gas central heating in at Slabour HQ.
galamcennalath says:
5 January, 2016 at 11:16 pm
The immediate Unionist mission is to deny the SNP a majority in May. If they lose their majority then independence is definitely on the back burner.
Yep, we are going to see all sorts of tricks in the next few months. All sorts of promises. Most people know by now that Labour can’t be trusted to deliver though.
Look at their feeble submissions to the Smith Commission after Gordon Brown was promising radical home rule during the referendum.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Problem is that the UK party still supplies the funding, still hopes for future Scottish MPs to prop them up, and half the Scottish branch would quit if Dugdale proposed federalism, which seems like the only solution to their problems.
And of course, Corbyn is still unelectable in England so it would all be a moot point.
This is the fault line in Scottish politics and the fault line in Labour. Labour,unlike the Tories, is not constitutionally a unionist party and this issue is destroying them because it is a diversion and independence does not act against what are traditionally their social democratic aims. Their position to date has been a false one inflicted on them by London and the vested interest of their previous elected politicians.
Labour’s choice in Scotland is to support independence or completely collapse. Lots of it knows this. We await developments. There is still some seats on the bandwagon.
The next referendum will be Scotland against the Tories.
are Scottish Labour going to advocate independence as an option for the Holyrood elections in a desperate bid not to get wiped out and then say well it’s down to London but it’s an option?
As one who supported her party in Scotland for 40 years before seeing sense. I’m too wise to their tricks to listen to a word she has to say.
She can FRO.
She will have to register this new party under a new name as London Labour has registered all the likely ones – unless Kezia and her chums had the foresight to register Scottish Labour themselves rather than with Head Office in London . . . . . .
did a wee search at the electoral commission and she has not registered yet . . . . .
If Kezia is reading this, she needs to start here; link to electoralcommission.org.uk
Labour Actions and promises that we can NEVER forget:
1. Make a secret of the McCrone report that suggested Scots would become the 3rd richest nation per capita, if they ever found out about the wealth of their oil reserves.
2. Labour has tagged our oil reserves for the last 40 years as that special type that runs out soon and that can never do anything for the economy. (No one else on Earth has this type)
3. Labour claimed that Scotland is subsidised by Westminster- as
stunning distortion of the reality.
4. Gordon Brown Lied that an Independent Scotland would not be able to pay old age pensions while knowing that these were guaranteed by Westminster regardless.
5. Brown tried to terrify Scots requiring Blood Transfusions or organ transplants by saying that treatment would be denied
in an Independent Scotland- Absolute Pish on all accounts.
6. Brown promised to deliver a Near Federal State if Scots
voted No. We know now that every syllable was yet another lie.
7. The biggest party gets to form the next government regardless
of coalition parties being able to for a majority. Whopper!
8. Scottish Labour is a party and has autonomy- Shot to Pieces
by their own deposed Joanne Lamont. No Scottish party or powers.
9. Labour claimed to have voted against excessive Tory cuts when they abstained and proposed imposing cuts but over a slightly longer period.
10. If Scotland had voted for Labour, we wouldn’t have a Tory
government. They are 100 seats short of the Tory Total and Scotland only has 59 seats. Liars who can’t count!
So would I ever believe Labour as long as I do live?
Not on your life would I vote for the Lying, Incompetent, Greedy, Sycophantic Red Tories!
PS Tony Blair has locked away the true details behind the Dunblane massacre for 100 years?
I can only presume that he and or his friends are linked in a such a very bad way that no living person can ever find out.
I’m laughing at the comments on here.
Is anyone actually believing this nonsense? Or am I being suckered into believing folks might be taking this seriously??
I agree with the above. FRO Kez, wtf and eh? might be responses even more associated with her until she’s replaced by Ruth after the May elections
If you read these Tweets in the correct order (ie. 3, 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7), it completely changes the meaning. The later comments from 4 onwards refer to the direction of the labour movement rather than the independence movement.
You had me there for a moment.
Slightly O/T
What is being totally ignored is that the price of oil has no effect on the revenue the Government gets from it. The taxation per extracted barrel is the same no matter its price
Valerie
Well, it’s either laugh or the “red mist” gets you.
(Bit like the fog, but less believable)…:)
@Dave McEwan Hill
There are various oil taxes set at a percentage rate.
The priority during times of low oil prices should be to protect jobs and maintain infrastructure until the price recovers.
The fact that we don’t have an oil fund right now to smooth out the rough times is appalling. A high price has been paid for not controlling our own resources.
Well it’s tagged in the ‘and finally’ category on Wings, generally…a wee non serious but ironic article afore bedtime…ye couldnae tak anythin’ serious that the Dug says…ever.
The labour party in Scotland becoming Independent? Come on…that’s just a soundbite some o’ the yoons are using tae procure votes…it’s no difficult this politics in Scotland stuff…is it?
What are Labour prepared to say or do now that wee Ruthless has turned on them to drive them down into third place
The SNP are laughing their heads off watching Tory and Labour rip each other apart like cats in a sack with wee Willie Rennie hiding behind the fence waiting to throw shit on anybody to get ahead of the game
Patrick Harvie incensed at wee Willie for trying to be greener than him, while all the time Johan Lamont’s got her dagger handy looking for anybodys shoulder blades to plunge it into
Tricia Marwick, gavel at the ready, eyes peeled gazing down from the umpires chair ready with the “Speak Now” button
And all the while, that laugh, ringing throughout that chamber of politics, head swaying forwards and backwards as if somehow detached from the wearer
He He He Ho Ho Ho, he guffaws, glasses misting up with exuberant glee, tears rolling down his reddened face “I am Swinney the Finance Minister and Thou shalt not pass” he exclaims, while the rest of the SNP are banging their heads off their desks in a delirium of ecstasy
See if ah wiz a writer ah could dae books like Jakey Rollups, wae pitchers in them but
D M Hill @12.24
Interesting , I assume you mean it’s fixed tax / barrel ?
Any links ?
Thanks
( sorry I’ve got so used to being a lazy f@@£er )
Aww Rev, are you playing a joke on us?
Though in fairness, I did wonder how long it would be before SLAB might try to pull a stunt like this or even, in a last minute panic, try to swop sides and kid on that’s what they meant to do all along.
They’re all coming out with such laughable tripe at the moment that anything is possible!
She went home for Christmas/New Year and her dad has had a word.
Dr Jim!! = )
You got them all to a tee!
Oh! It’s good to laugh like that!
You know I’m non the wiser, can’t make any sense of the tripe that woman is saying.
Ok off to the land of nod, maybe tomorrow Slab will start to say something intelligent and meaningful. La li la.
Great to see they are so panicked, serves em right.
Well that’s one way of doing it. The latest ex-Labour MP article by David Leask on Brian Donohue who reckons 3 SNP MPs would like to resign because they didn’t expect to get elected, is “Comments are closed on this article”. Nice one.
This from the Financial Times 27 12 15 on Labour party m’ship changes:
“In Scotland the figures provide no comfort for the new leadership. The typical Scottish constituency has seen a rise of only 68 members since May to an average of 322 — lower than Wales or the north east of England.”
So that secret figure is just under 19000 (322 x 59)?
Really?
That very first tweet is a loaded gun in itself.
The Question …‘How would we better deliver the real change people want to see?’
Well …50% of Scotland want ‘choice’, and the ability to have and make ‘choice’ can only be attained through independence. We certainly have no ‘choice’ while Westminster vetoes or keeps real levers of power away from the Scottish people.
Kezia to refute this argument would be to make her opening statement in the above caption invalid. She knows very well, that the Tories will never provide ‘real change’, and she must have a fair inkling that the Labour Party itself will never do the same. After all …how long have they been promising Scotland ‘Home Rule’? The answer …more than a 100 years.
So …though she didn’t say it, the answer must have sat even in her own head. Without being detrimental to the lass, even though she has made bad mistakes in the past, even Kezia must have seen one possible timeline in all her questions; why just be the party leader of the Scottish Labour Party, when she could be the Scottish Prime Minister of a nation. That idea must have gleaned through all the other thoughts and arguments like a ray of sunshine in some of her arguments.
Because simply put …as leader of a nation …she would then be better placed to ‘deliver the real change people want to see?’
I’m sorry, I’ll read that again!
Or, WTF is she on – bucket of reality?
…….. it’s not April 1st already, is it ?
Caneron using the analogy of Catalonia to try and take Scotland out of the EU is foolish beyond belief. Both Catalonia/Spain want to stay in the EU. The majority are not interested in his fantasy renegotiations. Migration in Europe is caused by UK foreign policies, bombing the Middle East to bits and increasing tensions in the world. Migration in Europe is caused by Cameron’s appalling policies. The Junior Doctor’s strike in England is scheduled for Tuesday. NHS Funding has been cut by Cameron and the debt is increasing.
The Labour/Unionists shambles is beyond belief. The Labour Party hasn’t changed in 100 years. A total shambles of incompetent hypocrites, along with their Tory mates and their sycophantic Press. Owned by tax evading Non Doms and the corrupt bankers.
Oh Jeez!
The explanation should be a hoot. 😀
Well, Happy Little Women’s Christmas everyone!
We’ll be off out for our egg and chips this afternoon.
The EU Union and the UK Union are totally different organisations. The EU Union cost nothing. A small agreed contribution which comes back. For major trade/social Laws/Defence benefit. The UK Union is a corrupt organisation protected by the Official Secrets Act to Scotland’s deficit. Westminster members have lied, illegally and secretly deprived Scotland at every opportunity. The corruption is beyond belief.
Scotland has constantly had (UK) policies for which the majority did not vote. Only since Devolution has Scotland had limited Democracy, and the economy has improved. Still being denied economic/social and foreign policies by Westminster. HMRC is not fit for purpose and UK Law is not enforced by Westminster/Unionists. The Referedum promises have been broken. Westminster is spending £170Billion on Trident, £25Billion on a nuclear plant beside the sea. £70Billion on HS2. All a total waste of money which could b better spent. Sanctioning and staving the vulnerable. (£4Billion)
The pretendy ‘fantasy’ renegotiations and the ‘resuffle’. A total waste of time and energy. A joke. Dugdale will never be FM. Roll on May 2016.
Kamikaze Kezia.
Eat a can of alphabetti spaghetti and some laxatives and you could shit more sense than Kezia’s tweets!
Is this from another one of those parody accounts that keep getting shared? Cannae be the real KD!!!
We forced our opponents to change.
I cannot believe my eyes. After all SLab has said & done to Scotland since time immemorial & people here are still willing to believe the dribblings of a branch office manager saying that they’ve changed.
Aye right!!! Don’t believe a word of it.
It’s not what Dugdale’s says, just like it wasn’t what Murphy said, or Johan, or any of them.
What bugs me is how they can talk utter pish but then get it broadcast to the masses on such an elevated platform with neither scrutiny or criticism for what they actually say. It’s as if parties with a vote share of a pressure group somehow have a permanent seat on the “what gets broadcast in Scotland” committee; just like the UK having a permanent seat on the UN Security Council. It isn’t fair, and is fundamentally undemocratic, and even if it made sense at some point in history, the world has moved on and the dress code is looking seriously outdated.
How much firmer does Scotland’s rejection of Tory and Fib-Dem, and increasingly Labour policies need to be before these token voices get the token air time as befits their token electoral success? Or is it Scotland’s democracy itself which is the ‘token’?
When SLAB are a separate entity witheir own constitution and Scottish funding, then, and only then can they address the Scottish peoples with any credibility.
Until then its just more shite from a broken drain.
The National today:
link to thenational.scot
The game plan to build support for the SNP was Smith and the Scotland Bill, but that with the fiscal framework will be nearly played out by Valentine’s Day. The SNP must feel confident enough now to put Independent firmly back on the agenda. It will also shut up those apparently on the pro-Indy side, who have been going around saying the SNP are betraying Indy, and just interested in lining their own pockets, staying in power. Not so.
It might also put more pressure on Labour and Kezia Dugdale to be more pro-active, especially considering the Tories are putting themselves forward as the only Unionist party. They’re either going to ahve to go the full Devo-Max or pro-indy, or disappear into the glooming with Andy Stewart and the federalised Jackie Bird.
A powerful and confident move by Sturgeon, I think.
Labour will promise anything between now and May. They are unionists. The remaining party officials are Blairites skilled in spinning any story to gain votes
Kezia is a lifeless puppet dancing to the string pulling of party spin doctors.
@Yesindyref2
🙂
Heh, that’ll set the cat amongst the pigeons. Headlines should be interesting for the next wee while. 😀
A game changer?
Come on folks, KD and her minions are still deep in the Labour bunker, desperately trying to come up with a cunning plan for May 2016. No difficulty reading their minds:
“How can we fool the Scottish voters that we are not against independence per se?”
KD is not as dumb as she acts. Her contortions are all about hinting without actually saying anything. It’s all about deniability, twisting and turning, playing with words to produce something that will draw people back to Labour but can be easily denied when push comes to shove, after the people have voted. This is “Vow 2”. Last year the big nudge and wink, the false promise was FFA/DevoMax. This year, is it independence? If so, then it shows how truly desperate they now are.
KD is testing the waters here. In doing so, however, she has given the game away. We know what the red tories big tactic for May is going to be. Easily countered – just challenge them to spit it out clearly YES or NO. 🙂
@Mr Brian McGrath
My mid 20s daughter gave me her old laptop for XMAS, with all her accounts intact and logged in. The fun I could have had . . . Instead I had to go through logging her out etc. I’m still finding things.
So it wouldn’t surprise me.
Here’s a thought.
KD is returned to Holyrood and SLAB are reduced to a rump. KD resigns not only as SLAB leader but also the SLAB whip and continues as an “Independent” MSP.
That buys her time politically. Perhaps to eventually cross the floor to a left wing party?
@ Lollysmum. Well said.
@Macart
Yes. I think she’s making sure of the pro-indy vote in view of attempts to split it, but also keep the others onside by talking about building support over the next parliament. But that doesn’t stop a referendum within the next parliament, if there’s enough of a YES support.
I’m sticking to my prediction, 2017 (after the council elections), early 2018. Before perhaps, depending on the EU referendum and reaction in Scotland if there’s a clear split rUK to Scotland.
@Macart
I also gut-feel a steady build up now, and a multi-pronged one. Salmond with his own radio show apparently doing his own thing, attempts to federalise the BBC, continuing pushing “more powers beyond the Scotland Bill”, Smith not delivered, anti-austerity, you name it. I think The National and even SH is starting to steady itself as well.
I suspect they’re not too displeased with the Rev’s efforts either, he’s really stirring up the media, spoiling their “porage” (deliberate spelling). Well, they should take it with a pinch of salt like the rest of us do.
I’m glad Nicola is saying enough to quell the impatient. My response to those alleged pro Indy types chanting about betrayal – it’s always in the SNP manifesto, it’s the founding principle.
I was never bothered that it wasn’t talked about, they have to be in listening mode for the No voters, but I suppose they are acutely aware of maintaining momentum – a tricky balance.
It will be interesting to hear the howls of rage now.
@Yesindyref
On both posts – ditto. Same feeling here.
I’ve had the impression for the past wee while they’ve been setting up the dominoes. May is the first one and don’t the opposition know it? 🙂
“Setting up the dominoes”. I love the analogy. Setting up the dominoes takes patience and a steady hand, but the anticipation is almost as good as the moment of toppling the first one.
Roll on May.
SNP x 2
97.3FM Wednesdays for Salmond’s radio show on LBC.
Better than Aunties offerings.
@Valerie, @Macart
I think it’s been a very frustrating time the last 6 months for most if not all of us. It’s had to go through its stages, but Indy seemed no nearer. Boo. After the Ref we could all have slumped into a pile of sludge but lo and behold, SNP membership shot up as did Green and SSP, support for SNP shot up and wayhay, it’s the General Election campaign started for us before the end of September.
I actually wondered even in October 2014 if it would be a clean sweep, the mood was there and the opinion polls, but 56 is pretty good. Then after the GE? Well, nothing but patience. Holding the feet to the fire at Westminster but knowing it would make no difference, all amendments outvoted, surprise surprise!
I’m a Fundamentalist in Independence terms, but have realised that the Gradualist approach was the only way to get there. I think some lost the patience, and no wonder, it’s been a very frustrating 6 months.
But this is a new year.
Macart, Yesindyref, Bill Hume:
Indeed. The Holyrood election in May 2016 and the council elections in 2017 are crucial. “Scottish” Labour is the last, the very last, obstacle shoring up the union in Scotland. The red tories are down but not out. We have to further reduce them to an ineffective rump at Holyrood this year, and (possibly more importantly) ensure they are left in control of few, if any councils by May 2017. When, and only when, we achieve that, the road to indyref 2 and independence will be clear.
So, two big political dominoes still stand between us and independence. The first one comes in May. Let’s make sure it comes crashing down. The sound of another red tory collapse will be music to our ears. 🙂
yesindyref2 at 10.40
Like most “fundamentalists” I have always understood that our progress would be gradual.These terms were invented by our enemies to cause division. Despite some eejits from time to time suggesting we support devolution (there are some today even) the party has never deviated from proposing and supporting independence. We are virtually all fundamentalists.
Wee Dug says all the Tories went on about was “how difficult it would be, how hard it would , couldn’t afford it”
Ermmm….did SLAB not say exact same thing?
Luigi we might not have to wait for the council elections, if the Brits take us out of Europe in June!
Snap referendum!
Don’t forget the tories-ruthie has aspirations to fill the gap left by the demise of slab.She’s already set out her stall in Holyrood in the same debate where Nicola made her announcement about independence being at the heart of the election campaign.
Wouldn’t trust any unionist party as far as I could throw them.
Whatever KD says or whatever SLAB come up with…Remember this: When the chance was there for Scotland to grab its freedom in the REF…..every motherlovin’ one of these despicable individuals, MSPs and MPs voted ‘NO’ with their pals the TORIES.
That’s all you need to remember every time Kezia and the Branch Office regurgitate this sort of Lillian Gish.
@Yesindyref2
Heh, once the referendum result was in, I always thought it would come down to letting Westminster be Westminster and they were true to form. In their narrative of Scotland and the independence movement, they and their media chums created a runaway train. In their fear and desperation they lost control and left themselves with no ‘out’ in order to win the aftermath.
They burnt so many bridges with the electorate, said so much that couldn’t be taken back or wiped from public record.
All the SG had to do was wait patiently and hold the line, be consistent, be competent and yes Kezia, ‘managerial’. Westminster’s establishment parties couldn’t wait to, as they saw it, humiliate and denigrate almost the entirety of Scotland’s representation throughout the Scotland Bill debates and amendments.
What people saw, was that everything was ‘off the table’. What people saw was the democratic deficit in action. What people saw was parties of government abusing their positions of authority during a general election in an attempt to influence a vote. What people are seeing now is a political establishment and heavy handed media most times needlessly hounding the Scottish Government all in pursuit of a vote.
Their own worst enemy dads and they always were.
Looks tome as if all SNP candidates will have to have a smear test or the smear cats in the media and Labour will get them.
Have you ever had a business? Disqualified as a candidate
Have you ever sold anything? Disqualified as a candidate
Future Lord Tomkinski also agrees with Kez. What’s up with unionists red or blue tory these days?
Adam Tomkins ?@ProfTomkins 14h14 hours ago
Adam Tomkins Retweeted The National
So not education education education, then, but independence independence independence. Just what Scotland needs
Fundilymundilyblunderly?
To cheers from Conservatives, the Prime Minister replied: “Scotland had a referendum on whether to remain part of the United Kingdom. The Scottish First Minister (Alex Salmond), now an MP, signed with me the Edinburgh Agreement, that said both sides had to respect the outcome of that referendum.
That is the only answer he needs.”
That’s us telt! 🙁 Aye right!
link to archive.is
Yer playing for Scotland!….Ooeerr I’ve not got ma boots wi me!
🙂
link to archive.is
I wouldn’t believe a word that comes out of Dugdale’s mouth, you only have to look at how quickly she backtracked after attacking Corbyn.
Claiming that his election as leader would leave Labour shouting from the sidelines.
But then her audience aren’t those who are politically savvy, but those ordinary voters who don’t have much interest in politics.
@call me dave
An answer to Mr Cameron may be that we did respect the outcome of the referendum. It is he who has had some problem realising his pledges and promises. Still waiting on those broad shoulders carrying some weight, oh and how is ‘near federalism’ coming along these days? Is it still the case that ‘nothing is off the table in terms of devolution’?
His idea of respecting an outcome and ours appear polar opposites.
‘The Herald/David Leask are doing a widespread survey of ex-MPs, what they are doing now and how they see Scottish politics post SNP Tsunami.
The big treat today is an article about Brian Donohoe.
I haven’t read it. I don’t usually bother reading David Leask’s articles I always just read the comments.
Comments on this article for some strange reason are closed.
Perhaps they were worried that people would tell Brian Donohoe to ‘eff off’
OT
I missed yesterday’s BBC ‘Daily Politics show, wherein, apparently, SNP MP Tommy Shepherd handled well an aggressive interview by unionist BBC employee, Ms Jo Coburn.
I duly set the tv recorder to catch the repeat on the BBC Parliament Channel, last night, of both ‘The Daily Politics’ show & First Minister Questions.
I then tried to view ‘live’ last night. I was disappointed to note that although the two programme repeats were listed in the tv programmes schedule, neither was repeated on BBC Parliament. Instead, it simply continued with a repeat of ‘House of Commons Live’ from yesterday.
Given that the ‘National’ revealed today that said First Minister’s Questions launched the SNP’s ‘call to arms’ for independence, I suspect that somewhere within the cultural Lubyanka known as ‘BBC Scotland’ the cultural cuckoo occupying Pacific House was ordered to ‘drop’ these repeats.
I no longer watch BBC’s union-partial ‘Scotland 2016’ programme, even with Sarah Smith John Smith’s woe-faced, shoe-horned daughter, Sarah now promoted out of harm’s way) ‘
Straight up Question :
At what point does Magnus Llewellin, Editor-in-Chief, Herald & Times become a serious liability to the owners ?
With circulation figures plummeting, obvious ‘SNPBad’ bandwagon leanings, integrity of staff writers seriously in doubt.
When do the owners say ‘get yer coat’ or are the happy to just watch it fail along with investments and jobs – seriously ?
What would be the limit?
Whenever Cameron uses the word “respect” the less respect he receives in Scotland – not that he ever had much respect in the first place.
Just so that you don’t miss the famous Alec Salmond show:
link to lbc.co.uk
and the trailer:
link to youtube.com
SCOTTISH OFFICE QUESTIONS: Mundell “SNP BAD, it’s all their fault ask John Swinnie, SNP BAD” Ian Murray SLAB “SNP BAD VERY BAD VERY VERY BAD! Costa tolly MP “ENGERLAND VERY VERY GOOD, SNP VERY VERY BAD” there’s a back stabber for you a true loyalist. To who? A tolly, root and branch. BIRDS OF A FEATHER!
A bunch of crawlers, spineless wimps led by Mundell the muppet. Aye bette the GITHER tollies, SLAB & LibDems what a union of gangsters AGAINST SCOTLAND, TRUTH, DEMOCRACY AND HONESTY.
Cuilean says:
6 January, 2016 at 11:54 am
OT
I missed yesterday’s BBC ‘Daily Politics show
link to tinyurl.com
@cuilean 11:54am
Here’s the iPlayer link to yesterday’s DP
link to bbc.co.uk
We need to become focused on Indy2,there is much to be done.
Remember the lessons of the past.
The currency issue needs to be addressed much more forceably.
This was one where we were weak before, so the Unionists made it their main battlefield.We need expert pro Indy statements on the best currency option, and that needs to be explained in detail.
We also need to address all the main attack areas of the Unionist cabal,their case is weak and we need to make our case unanswerable for them. Do this by exposing what they have been doing to Scotland for hundreds of years, and are still doing it now.
We need to expose just how corrupt the Unionist state is,and how it belittles and deceives Scotland for it’s own gain. All this needs the relevent conformations that are irrefutable.
It is a big task, but all we need is out there, we have plenty to go on with and more comes in all the time.
We need a concerted effort,and we need strong people and good planners in order to counteract them,and then we have a very good chance of winning.
This is needed and more. A plan must be thought through, to take their attacks head on.
We have the stronger case, it needs to be made stronger and beyond doubt.
@Les Wilson
Agree regarding currency.
The only way to be truly independent BTW is to have a sovereign currency.
@ ‘Ruby’ & ‘Hamish McTavish’
Much obliged! Thankyou.
We could post masses of data on here about the Labour Party in Scotland (UK in general) and their abysmal record here and south of the border (lying to the Scots, illegal wars and financial debacles etc) but the bottom line for me is that people like Kezia Dugdale are trying to convince people, by using every means possible, to be part of a Union (the UK) that is known to be in the top four most inequitable countries in the Civilised World. The so-called party of the working people that seems to be happy to accept living in a country that encapsulates a massive rich – poor divide: And wants others to do so too many of whom are on the poor side of the divide … living in abject poverty.
She may retort that if Labour was in power things would be different but we know that’s untrue … and she does too. One has only to look at the expenses Scottish Labour politicians like Murphy, Sarwar and Curran et al were claiming ….. Labour politicians topping the expense claim league …. claiming much more than the Tories. We have only to look at multi-millionaire Blair and the Lord Darlings, Kinnocks and Foulkes (her mentor) et al to see that Keir Hardy ideology went out of the window decades ago.
It’s high time that she stopped ‘acting’, fronting a sham and came clean with the electorate. Labour politicians have truly abandoned the working classes, the poor and disabled with the focus being on themselves … on riding the gravy train. More than anything the Labour Party abandoned the (loyal mugs) Scots in general. They actually did us all a favour in the run up to the Referendum as they showed their true colours, literally, and highlighted the charlatans that they are and how totally meaningless they’ve become: on their way to becoming as dead as the dodo in fact.
Still haven’t read Kexia speech for YES, I get all my red tory unionist stuff from
Scott Arthur ?@DrScottThinks 23h23 hours ago Edinburgh, Scotland
Today we found that:
1. @kdugdalemsp will help working class Scots buy their 1st home.
2. One SNP MP owns 7 houses.
Dr Bonkers says SLab test your working classness for their free £300000000000000 like so
link to youtube.com
Unionists arent mad are they.
Police Scotland has its new Heid Puddock but is it not passing strange that the greatly enlarged force was so incapable of providing a replacement for Stephen House that his place was supplied by parachuting in somebody completely unfamiliar with Scottish policing, law, lingo & rank badjins? We shall see!
@Graf Midgehunter
Thanks for the link.
Gawd, I love that man. I have tears in my eyes at the mean tweets.
I’m sure LBC figures are going to take a hike up. Ill be listening.
Cameron et al should never have offered far more than they intended to deliver. It will go into future Scottish history books as one of the most callous, calculated, and deceitful acts ever played out in Scotland.
Yes, Scots voted to stay in the Union, conditionally on offers made. Those offers were put on the table by Cameron et al, only to be taken off as the result was declared!
The result is now very close to becoming null and void. Fair enough. Shame we will have wasted a couple of years, though.
ScottieDog says:
I agree, but the benefits it would bring need to be forceably explained, and in easily understood terms. I do not think it is beyond us to do that. Failure is not an option.
The other thing though that is important, the Unionists have used and exposed what they do, and are likely to do so again.
There is little new that they could convince the naysayers with, propaganda, lies and deceit is all they have, there is no positive case they can put that beats Indy.
We have heard it all before and should be more aware next time. That puts them at a disadvantage given Scots are now well aware of what we are dealing with.
Re. “Setting up the dominoes”.
The SNP leadership has IMO long had a plan about where to go and how to get there.
Even during the Indyref build-up they probably had alternative plans in case the NO vote won. YES didn’t make it 🙁 so plan “B” went straight into play.
First was “clear the decks”, AS resigned and NS came in as the new start. AS could stay and play the “Maverick” wherever needed.
Then the “long game” came into play with three steps.
First, win GE15 for a stronger Mandat.
Second, retain the majority Mandat in SE16.
Third, VERY IMPORTANT, get the majority of the councils under neutral/SNP control.
The SG/SNP got to run the Ref14 but under UK election rules (exception 16-18 year olds) and it was the councils that actually did the local organisation – voter registration, postal voting, voting boxes, counting etc.
Most councils are run by the Unionist parties and without wanting to get into a conspiracy debate, I don’t think they and their “Helpers helpers” were too keen on helping the YES team win..!
When the third step is in place, then and only then will we be able to hold an Indyref-2 under neutral conditions.
I think this is one of the reasons why the SNP is using its brain and slowly building up the support into the 60%+ area and getting Westminster’s finger out of the organisation.
O/T …. From the last thread.
@ schrodingers cat says at 11:26 pm …. ”I have been punting the orkney4 for 2 days, the total has moved £20 .. not enough folks, this crowd fund cannot be allowed to fail. Dear stu, I cannot afford to give anymore, it is January, the hardest month for us all. please use what ever funds you have in wos to take this over the line. I promise, come feb, may, to replenish wos. don’t let this fail folks………. I beg you…”
Schrodinger I’ve noticed a number of people stating that as soon as the final bill is issued, like myself, they’ll contribute. They probably say this as the final bill may not be £208,000 at all: May be MORE or hopefully, but doubtfully, less.
I hope one of the Orkney4 is reading this. Let us know when you get the final bill and we’ll cover it for you. This has to be done because if not no-one will have the courage to do what they did, ever again, if we’re going to let them down … break our promise to them. And I know that we wont break our promise at all.
Anyone is better than House. Hope this one realises who’s paying his salary. The Scottish taxpayers, who don’t appreciate being unlawfully harassed.
Total budget £1.8Billion. 40% of ‘charges’ have to be processed but never come to court. A waste of time and money. Along with those admonished. The Police do not know the Law.
Petra says 12:31
Well said and well written. Totally agree. My major problem with them all is their double standards , where they preach ‘ Do as I say not as I Do ‘.
Feckin sick of all the righteous indignation from them all, with their continuous SNP smear campaigns while they themselves are hardly moral ambassadors.
Latest victim Phil Boswell reported to Parliamentary Commissioner for ‘Standards ‘ was raised by a feckin Lib Dem candidate …..a feckin Lib Dem and ‘Standards’ ….irony overload….feckin bare faced cheek.
The constant onslaught from them all against the SNP will ultimately be their demise because they present no real political alternative that will ever resonate with us.
They only seek to pull us back into the past because they are self serving and power over principles is the new politics.
Power to the people .
This post was brought to you by someone who is ready to explode at all of the shite endured for too long but who will never never ever give up in quest to live in an independent Scotland free of all yoon propaganda especially from part time Scots, if you know what I mean.
SNP X 2 next May.
The Orkney Four need to set up a bank a/c for funds. For people without computer access or who wish to contribute over the counter.
Robert Kerr @ 0945.
“That buys her time politically. Perhaps to eventually cross the floor to a left wing party?”
If previous associations are anything to go by, Robert, she’s more likely to join the tories.
Clootie said at 9:25 am:-
“Labour will promise anything between now and May. They are unionists. The remaining party officials are Blairites skilled in spinning any story to gain votes.
Kezia is a lifeless puppet dancing to the string pulling of party spin doctors.”
Exactly—this fact must be remembered and shared.
Labour is a Blairite party and will forever remain one with hiccups along the road eg as we are witnessing now in Westminster.
Corbyn will eventually get the heave and all will return to business as usual.
The SNP/independence movement-
keeps it’s cool..
..regardless of many of its supporters impatience..
..carrying on with its responsibilities..promoting a progressive future.
The other parties-
..all seem to have daily tantrums,
whether in the angry media, or within official statements..
..many of their supporters simply don’t care that much..preferring to stick to their existing prejudice.
Think on those two descriptions-
.. now.. which kind of society- and style of democracy- should we all be striving for.
John Swinney should book some sessions with Keiser/Herbert from RT news,they would give him all the ammunition he needs to wipe the floor with the currency argument,they are excellent and continue to show the City of London for what it is,a nest of blatant crooks.
liz,
I have tried to find a link for the boundary change you referred to, which I have read about before (a transfer of North Sea waters from Scottish to English supposed ownership), but not found one suitable yet.
Not criticizing here, but but are you sure that you meant 6000 square metres? That is not very much (a strip of sea just 1 kilometre long and 6 metres wide, for example)!
Did you maybe mean to type 6000 square kilometres? (e.g 60km x 100km). That seems more like an appropriate figure…
Quote [liz says:
5 January, 2016 at 10:58 pm
Although this sounds like advocating, I do not trust SLAB one inch.
Remember the promise to get rid of the HoL, didnothing.
Don’t forget the lies re McCrone, the removal of 6ooosq m of the North sea.
They are not to be trusted, ever]
Regarding the economy and money.
We just have to get word out there that the way the UK is running its economy is unsustainable.
People are brainwashed into thinking this country has a sovereign debt problem. Our public debt as a ratio to GDP is around 80%.
Our ratio of private debt to GDP in total comes in around 500%. The Tories and labour during their term created a ponzi economy underwritten by the tax payer.
The UK govt has a central bank which can and did by up its old bonds making the concept of national debt nonsensical. I wish I could issue money to pay off my mortgage but I can’t, well,not legally anyway.
An independent Scotland with an independent central bank and currency is the only way forward. It may seem a big step to many but it’s a necessary step.
Compare and contrast the fortunes of Iceland and Greece in the aftermath of the financial crisis and it becomes clear why a country needs to be a currency issuer not a currency user.
And by the way, the new G20 ‘bail in’ law means that banks will now be able to keep your deposits should they get into financial difficulties. No ifs or buts.
The usual drivel from Kezia…has she forgotten that the self-serving party she purports to lead stood shoulder to shoulder with the Tories and other unsavory scumbags determined to keep Scotland under Westminster’s thumb? Why is her party so determined to deny real power to the Scottish government? Road signs just won’t cut it Kezia! So…take a hike, we have had more than enough of your party’s corruption and lies.
See another SNP bad story is about to be reported on STV News, this time about SNP MSP Dennis Robertson’s remarks about the Oil Industry. I’m getting sick of this. Not about them reporting if a SNP MSP trips over his tongue, but about reporting this while ignoring Unionist ravings. Hypocrites.
Stephen Roney.
john young says:
6 January, 2016 at 4:29 pm
John Swinney should book some sessions with Keiser/Herbert from RT news,they would give him all the ammunition he needs to wipe the floor with the currency argument,they are excellent and continue to show the City of London for what it is,a nest of blatant crooks.
Ruby replies
link to tinyurl.com
Graham says:
6 January, 2016 at 4:39 pm
liz,
I have tried to find a link for the boundary change you referred to, which I have read about before (a transfer of North Sea waters from Scottish to English supposed ownership), but not found one suitable yet.
Ruby replies
link to tinyurl.com
Hi Ruby.
Your ‘tinyurl’, about the 6000 square miles, takes clickers to the Herald’s web site.
Here it is archived:-
link to archive.is
@Graham
As well as Ruby’s link which explains it, there’s a full discussion paper about the appropriate median line:
link to ejil.org
I think the current median boundary ends East of Carnoustie, which is line 1 but then along the shaded bit.
From the paper it’s near definite that 6,000 square miles was indeed nicked from Scotland.
Indyref 2020?
link to moflomojo.blogspot.com
Brian Doonthetoon
Cheers I’ll need to learn how to do the archive thingy.
I’ve put it on my list of things to do in 2016!
@ Graham says at 4:39 pm ……..liz, I have tried to find a link for the boundary change you referred to, which I have read about before (a transfer of North Sea waters from Scottish to English supposed ownership), but not found one suitable yet.”
Would this help Graham?
The Stolen Seas by Craig Murray
link to youtube.com
Hi Ruby.
I posted this around 3 months ago…
————————————–
Archiving links…
So, you’ve found a page that you want to spread. Its ‘URL’ (web address) will be in the address bar of your web browser, up at the top. It will probably start with ‘http’ or ‘www’.
So you highlight that WHOLE address. Then do CONTROL-C (windows) or COMMAND-C (mac) to copy that address to your clipboard.
Then you go to this site:-
http://www.archive.is
On that page, at the text box at the top where it says “My url is alive and I want to archive its content”, you put your cursor in the text box, then click. The text entry cursor will appear at the left of the box, where it says, “http://www.domain.com/url”.
Do a COMMAND-V (mac) or a CONTROL-V (windows) to paste the URL, you have copied to your clipboard, into the text box.
Then click on “Save the page” at the right of the text box.
It takes a number of seconds for ‘archive.is’ to ‘capture’ the page but, when it’s completed, it will display the page, with its link up at the top.
Here’s an example. I want to archive the page that is found at:-
?link to thenational.scot
That’s the url I paste into the ‘archive.is’ text box.?‘archive.is’ then captures the page, and up at the top, after the capture, the archived url is displayed, in the address bar of your web browser as:-
link to archive.is
EASY-PEAZY!
8=)
link to archive.is
Brian Doonthetoon
EASY-PEAZY!
link to archive.is
My very first archived link is to an article entitled
Fishing boundary ‘likely marker for oil and gas’
THE expert who argued that the transfer of 6000 square miles of East Coast fisheries to English jurisdiction breached international rules, last night claimed the only logical reason for Westminster doing this was to put down a marker for a similar transfer of oil and gas rights in the future.
Well done, Ruby!
8=)
@Ruby
Thanks for that. I must have missed the whole thing at the time, because I never knew about the SNP motion. Look at this though:
“In spite of the mini-rebellion which saw seven Liberal Democrat colleagues abstain, the line the Cabinet asked Mr Finnie to defend won the day in the face of strong SNP and Conservative objections.”
That was the days the LibDems had principles unless like Finnie and the current load, bought by a ministerial position, and look at the Conservatives – they voted for the correct thing. Wow.
Scobie’s right of course, though there’s a reasonable case for having a 12 nm median line equidistant from the immediate coastlines of Scotland and England to protect England’s local near shore fishing rights, and then turing south for the rest of the (up to) 200 nm, perpendicular to the general coastlines further up – as the ejil (European Journal of International Justice) article argues amongst discussing the other options.
Why change the order of the tweets to make a story!! KD’s speech alone was enough to write about, without the pretence that she is now for Independence. When KD tweeted about “it can be done” she was referring to restoring Tax Credits if cut by the Tories and not Independence.
“Why change the order of the tweets to make a story!!”
Because it’s a light-hearted “And Finally” piece. It’s meant to be modestly funny.