Ian Davidson is a liar
If you click this link, you’ll see some footage of the Labour MP for Glasgow South West, Ian Davidson, at today’s protest against the bedroom tax. The unnamed person with the camera approaches him and confronts him with a direct question.
There seems to be some doubt with regard to the veracity of the answer.
QUESTIONER: “Mr Davidson! You abstained from the [bedroom tax] vote?”
DAVIDSON: “No I didn’t.”
Q: “You didn’t abstain from the vote?”
D: “No.”
Q: “How did you vote?”
D: “I voted No.”
Q: “You voted No?”
D: “Yes, I voted against the government.”
Q: “Did you?”
D: “Yes. So you’ve got that wrong. Thank you.”
Well, that seems absolutely unambiguous. There’s just one problem.
The image above is taken from the Public Whip website, which in turn gets its information from Hansard, the official record of Parliament. And both of those sources state that Ian Davidson was absent from the vote on the bedroom tax that was conducted on Opposition Day on February 27th – along with luminaries like Alistair Darling, Gordon Brown, Tom Harris, Michael McCann and 39 other Labour MPs.
So far as we can establish, the February 27th vote is the only one which has taken place in the Commons on the bedroom tax, or “Under-occupancy penalty” to give it its official title. [EDIT 11.20pm: A reader writes to point out that in fact there was a Commons division on the bill on October 24th last year (column 1047), which was the one that actually put the legislation into place. However, as Mr Davidson didn’t vote in that one either, it provides him with no defence.]
The video appears to show that there can be no question of Mr Davidson being misunderstood or quoted out of context in respect of his actions. Either Hansard has made a mistake, or Ian Davidson is lying. We’re sure if it’s the former, Mr Davidson will be contacting the publication urgently for a correction.
Well what do you know, Iain “I’ll gie ye a doin'” Davidson caught lying about his voting actions in the bedroom tax debate. Why am I not shocked or surprised about this?
I think this again shows the “we are superior to you” attitude that Labour M.P.’s have when talking DOWN to the electorate. Just a pity that he has been found out, and probably not for the first time. Let’s hope that at the next General Election people FINALLY grasp the nettle by the thorns and vote him and his lying abstaining cohorts out of office once and for all!
Yep thats pretty clear – absolutely no doubt he said that he ‘voted against the government’
Of course, unionists will be all over the swearing and ‘agressive’ manner in which he was approached, they will divert the attention to Nats avoiding proper debate, being swivel eyed ‘Braveheart’ types etc etc. (Even though we have no idea the political leanings of the person who made this video)
The case would have been watertight without the swearing, it may even have made some news channel somewhere – but as it stands thats all in all an opportunity missed.
Why didn’t the guy edit out the swearing ?
Yep thats pretty clear – absolutely no doubt he said that he ‘voted against the government’
Perhaps he meant the Scottish government?
The brass neck on the man is truly astounding… no bluster, no panic, just trots out a lie and then tries to call the man who ONLY asked a question a liar for asking a question…
Remarkable!
Jiggsboro – ha ha, true, he could claim that – but as he doesn’t have a seat in Holyrood thats a bit of a stretch !
Then again, it is Ian Davidson..
Cheers Rev – and Bedroomtax2 on twitter. Its for this sort of proper journalism that we all put our hands in our pockets over the past wee while and why I have a “standing order” through paypal.
I think that this will never make it on to any of the MSM “news” anyway whether the guy swore or not! The best thing that can happen is to Tweet+Facebook plus the usual channels “Cybernats” to get the message out! We are have been up against the MSM for years but still the message has gone out or the SNP would never have been elected twice and still have 2% more support in the polls today than they had when being elected in 2011
tartanfever
It would be quite fun if the Unionists complained about the swearing by “the Nat” – since I understand his stance is well to the left of the SNP.
Davidson was obviously hoping that people would conflate the fact that he didn’t abstain in the (more recent) ‘workfare’ debate vote (in which he did indeed vote No) with his ‘vote’ re the Bedroom Tax – which was a (probably ‘Bain Principled’) abstention. And a few fell for that, including, surprisingly, some Scottish pro-indy media pros…but luckily Hansard etc doesn’t lie about such things…
Btw, I’ve no time for those commenting on/complaining re the swearing – this is proper on-the-ground, face-to-face, gloves-off, non media-rendered political discourse; perfectly acceptable and appropriate; and the kind of political banter the Yes campaign needs more of if we are going to get more Yes votes in urban central Scotland in general and Glasgow in particular. And hopefully the swearing will help make it a bigger YouTube etc. hit!
Thing that occurred to me with George Square today is this. If Labour had their way, George Square would have been out of bounds to the march.
For some reason the City Fathers don’t want the public polluting their view from the City Chambers
This is going to come down to trust, in the end. Whom do you trust to take Scotland forward, and do the best they can for Scotland’s people?
And yes, I hear you when you say this isn’t an election and it isn’t a party political matter and whether or not Ian Davidson is a liar is of no more relevance to the independence debate than whether John Swinney kicked his cat, but it does matter. That’s why we’re getting all this “slippery, wily Salmond”, and the accusations of lying and so on. To undermine trust.
But people aren’t stupid. The swearing at the end of that tape is extremely relevant.
I find all this faux outrage from Labour about the bedroom tax beyond hypocritical. Guess what party introduced the bedroom tax for private renting tenants in 2008? Guess what party introduced workfare? A fair day’s pay for a fair day’s work is so passe! What party abolished the 10% tax rate? Ladies and gentlemen I give you the Labour party.
“The enemies of Scottish Nationalism are not the English, for they were ever a great and generous folk, quick to respond when justice calls. Our real enemies are among us, born without imagination.”
If anyone gives the lie to the criticism of nationalists as “narrow and parochial”, it is surely Cunninghame Graham . Before being a founding father of the National Party, the forerunner of the SNP he was a gaucho in Argentina, a socialist in the British Parliament and a founder of the Scottish Labour Party with his close friend James Keir Hardie back in 1888.
Great to have a parrty that you can TRUST……….NOT! isn’t it Panda Paws?
Let’s also remember that lots of honest Labour voters are just as disgusted with the welfare cuts as the rest of us. It’s their leaders who are obsessed with “solving” London”s housing crisis, regardless of the effect in the rest of GB – where even on Con/Lab/LD concerns, it is pointless and counter-productive.
Davidson’s blatant lying doesn’t just let down those affected by the Bedroom Tax, but every single Labour voter.
He got ‘a doing there.’
@beachthistle
I agree about the swearing. (And the rest obviously) Its Glasgow FFS. If he had edited out the swearing he would be seen as a right ………. ……….
No one in the Labour leadership has said they would repeal the Bedroom tax.And as the Scottish media or BBC won’t report it, see below for the list of the few Labour MPs who refused the whip to abstain rather than vote against the Tory bill to prevent job seekers getting a minimum wage for work placements in high street stores.labourlist.org/…/…
Why does the man with camera have to be a nat and no just one of the many that are sick of Labour and Labour MP’s like Davidson with their lies and hypocrisy? Thing is he’s no the only Labour MP that thinks it’s ok to go about telling lies,most of them if not all them can tell a lie without even blinking, and more than that, they can keep up the lie even after they have been found out and even confronted as you just seen on the clip. It’s supported you know by the BBC, the Scotsman, the Herald etc etc, you won’t read about Davidsons being a bare faced stinking liar, or his absolute hypocrisy at even showing up there today in the papers or hear about it on the telly.
If the mans a liar then he deserves to be called one, and clearly without doubt Davidson is a liar.
He seems to backtrack later in the clip and admit that Labour abstained “because it was the right thing to do.” I’m sure he will be explaining in the next couple of weeks why he insisted on voting against the government and didn’t abstain when abstaining was the right thing to do…..assuming Hansard is wrong, of course….which we assume it is…..given that he wouldn’t lie, on camera, when he could be confronted with that lie in future….not that it was a lie, of course…..but if abstaining was the right thing to do, why did he vote against the government and side with the SNP…..look, this is really confusing…..perhaps a Scottish journalist who is interested in the truth could follow this up and clarify this for….hello…..hello….anyone out there?…….
I was confused when I watched this clip, so I watched it again. And it struck me that while I would have naturally assumed the vote in question was the Bedroom Tax vote – given the event at which the question was asked – both Davidson and the questioner seem to be talking about the recent workfare vote in which Labour MPs were whipped to abstain, but Davidson actually voted no.
Stuart, you cut your transcript off halfway through the conversation. The questioner goes on to ask “How did your party vote?”. Davidson answers “My party abstained.” The questioner says “That’s right.”
That is a conversation clearly describing the recent workfare vote, not the Bedroom Tax vote, in which the Labour Party was whipped to oppose, and did oppose, even though some members were not present.
So when this doesn’t make it into the papers, don’t pretend that it’s bias on their part. You inserted “[Bedroom Tax]” into your transcript, but a fair listen to the whole clip shows you were wrong to do so.
“You inserted “[Bedroom Tax]” into your transcript, but a fair listen to the whole clip shows you were wrong to do so.”
The questioner’s Twitter name is “ScotlandsBedroomTax”. It was a demo specifically and solely about the bedroom tax. Why would they be asking about the workfare vote rather than the bedroom tax one? However, in the interests of fairness I’ve asked them to clarify what they were talking about.
link to twitter.com
hello…..hello….anyone out there?……
I think that I can hear an owl.
I agree Stirling,I think more and more folk are seeing through their Labour MPs/MSPs and are angry at the abstentions. I know at YesKirkcaldy last night there was an older woman who had voted Lab all her days but that they had lost her vote since they abstained either with bedroom tax and most definitely with workfare. This guy could be from any party or no party.
Straight on my Facebook page!
This reply is directed at Duncan Hothersall.
I was attending the bedroomtax demo as ”scotlandsbedroomtax”.My question was only about the bedroom tax .How on earth could you imagine that I’m talking about anything else other than the bedroom tax.
Duncan……today was all about the bedroom tax.Which part of this has confused you?We were not at a ”workfare” Demo.
@Seasick Dave
Na, it’s a squirrel!
duncan you are a fuckin disgrace. get fuckin outta here.
….further to the above.
If Davidson had been confused by my question,surely he would have said ” what vote are you talking about?” . He and I both knew exactly what we were talking about Duncan.
Nice try at getting this lizard of the hook.
He quickly walked into the distance and never looked back,didn’t rejoin the Demo.
I’ll tell you what made me laugh today.Davidson said that he wouldn’t debate in public !…..He’s a so-called politician and we were standing in the Glasgow green !! THE place which has witnessed MacLean /George/Maxton etc etc debate for hours on end !!…..please !
Thing is, will Duncan now get on the hotline to Davidson and provide this perceived escape route?
“ah wiz talking aboot the workfare vote or any other vote where ah voted no… Now shut it ya tubes or yill get a doin…”
will anyone in the MSM dare run with this? Of course, for one second imagine a high profile member of the SNP was caught in a similar position… and the MSM reaction would be?
Would not surprise me if Davidson came out with. “I thought the question was about workfare”
You could not give the man a red neck with a blowtorch!
Oh dear it appears some one is being rather naughty! Trying to spin a video about Davidson being asked about his actions on the bedroom tax vote in House of Commons into one about work fare.
As Scotlandsbedroomtax says why would you ask anyone about how they voted in a work fare vote when everyone at the march and rally in Glasgow was there purely and simply to protest about the BEDROOM TAX?
…reply to McHaggis
They would be ripped to shreds and Scottish Labour would be howling from the rafters for their guts for garters…..
Looks like Ian Davidson says nothing in Westminster and lies in public!
@Duncan Hothersall
What kind of people do you socialise with if you think you can convince us with that bollox argument?
Duncan Hothersall
Clear that in those circumstances, the question was about Bedroom Tax. Had Davidson answered honestly, there was no justification for his being at the demo.
He chose the standard politician’s response to give a wholly unrelated answer to get himself off the hook.
That can work with a TV interviewer, but not with forensic analysis by the public.
If Mr Davidson wishes to contact us and say that he was talking about the workfare vote, I will of course take that into consideration, although the other party to the discussion says they weren’t. Meanwhile, I think the pressing question being somewhat overlooked in this small brouhaha is why Mr Davidson DIDN’T take part in either vote on the bedroom tax.
Just to clarify any confusion, in my earlier post, I didn’t say the person who shot the video was a “nat’ – I’m putting forward my interpretation of how some unionists will ‘spin’ this video – and I promise you, they will.
Put it this way, if this chap had gone up to Davidson in a reasonable manner, asked him politely, got his response and let Davidson walk off – then there’s no comeback whatsoever. There’s no complaint and you don’t give them a chance to jump on their ‘barmy nat bandwagon’.
For nearly two years now we see this everywhere – ‘the barmy, agressive, anti-English fascist Nat supporter’ – on twitter, on facebook, on the comments pages of newspapers and even from poliiticans and journalists. Why would you want to give them ammunition to feed the lies and smears ?
We get no help in the press or media, on TV or radio – the attention is all on us and every move we make is scrutinised whilst the BT mob get away with outright gutter politics – in my book we have to be seen to be the rational, sensible and articulate side in this debate because we’re the ones under the microscope.
I’ve edited out the swearing and uploaded it to youtube for anyone that wants to post it to facebook/ twitter etc. The colour’s a bit wonky but the sound is fine
I’m sure Duncan Hothersall is a very nice chap but he doesn’t half talk a lot of shite and has been doing so on Labour Hame a lot (but not too often recently).
Isn’t it nice that Duncan can post freely on here but I can’t post most of the time on Labour Hame. They’ve moderated away three of my posts this evening already.
O/T I’ve just looked out my copy of Oliver Brown’s “Witdom” which I purchased circa 1970. It’s amazingly insightful and up to date and should be put back into print.
Oldnat
I agree. I think he pre-planned to answer/bluster that way if he was challenged by anyone at the demo, knowing that the workfare vote conflation/confusion (which he deliberately created) could be a way of saving his ass if he got busted.
And yes Rev, he should definitely still be challenged on why he was a at a public demo organised to protest against something he didn’t vote against on behalf of his constituents (living in the same city as the demo!).
@Duncan Hothersall
“The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”
– George Orwell, Animal Farm
@tartanfeer
I think that you are taking that a bit far. This is a Glasgow politician being asked a question by a Glasgow “chap” on Glasgow green. This is not an academic exercise there is real passion here. This demo was about something that will seriously affect some of the most vulnerable people all over Scotland and the UK. I am surprised that there is not more swearing in the video.
I know we get a bad press from everywhere. However watching that video makes me proud. Proud that individuals will stand up to slime like Davidson and tell him like it is.
Me confused again.
WTF was Davidson doing there if he didn’t vote against it?
Rev Stu. I think it would be more appropriate to good taste if you put the adjusted Youtube version on this site.
Just to add. The video if it spreads, swearing and all will have more effect in the right places regarding independence and Labour than sticking an edited version on the 6.30 news. It is a shame that there are so few people in the target audience that can afford to get on-line.
Can someone post on Youtube an unedited version as well please. I thought we were for a fair and unbiased press/media
May I suggest the investing of an Honour; the Order of the Bulletproof Boot. cast in base metal, to be awarded to unionist politicians who exhibit extreme hypocrisy / selective memory above and beyond the call of the trough.
Said Honour to be delivered to each and every available postal and internet address with embossed citation certificate and maximum publicity.
Suggestions for medal ribbon colours welcome.
If you don’t stand for freedom you’ll lie for your master.
Unedited version here :
link to youtube.com
I’m sorry if the vid has offended anyone,this was never my intention but I am what I am. I’m a Glasgow man from the east end. I speak the language Davidson completely understands.
@Richie
Pretty simple, these guys genuinely think people are that thick we don’t know what these guys have voted for/abstained from.
These parasites still think that turning up to a rally means they can say they were there supporting the people, unfortunately for Davidson and the likes we have YouTube, Twitter, WOS etc etc.
To respond to the question the way he did takes some balls, (but at least there were given a little squeeze ).
@scotlandsbedroomtax
Quite right and well done.
Don’t worry about the swearing I know what you are saying. I am a wee bit annoyed at some comments. We are barely out of the starting blocks regarding independence and some are calling for censorship. Pity there’s nae jobs left at the BBC
I suppose this is another incidence where I should, for the umpteenth time over many years now, put forward the suggestion that something akin to the law of perjury be applied to the pronouncements of elected representatives on any public forum,
i.e. if an elected representative lies in a public forum of any kind they should be subject to charge and arrest by the police and sentence by the judiciary.
Apart from being entirely appropriate in terms of justice, it would also be an immediate vote winner ‘mongst the electorate.
It seems on twitter through his own twitter name and god forbid this week’s @Scotvoices Duncan Hothersall is spinning the same “it must have been “workfare tax” Davidson meant. He also is giving wrong information through the @ScotVoices about Labour had constantly voted against it without checking out his facts, I know for fact my MP Gordon Brown abstained and the angry comments in our local paper says other constituents are not happy about his abstention for both bedroom tax and workfare.
Have a wee read of Duncan’s convo where he is convinced the owner of video is the one not getting the point
link to twitter.com
…of course, regardless of whether he chooses to prevaricate about it now, the fact remains that he failed to oppose it – which is the greater crime in my estimation.
He can twist and turn to his heart’s content – the truth is a matter of record.
The intervention by Duncan Hothersall illustrates perfectly why the Unionists, Labour in particular, wish to create the illusion of “The CyberNat”. With effective control of the narrative in the media, even if this Davidson story HAD made it into the press, it would havebeen spun the way Hothersall has tried to do. Any intervention, or correction by scotlandsbedroomtax, even if published, would have been a single line on page 34 three weeks later.
It seems like the raving of a paranoid, but “Blether with Brian” used to be a place Nats countered the scare story of the week, and swapped info, so now Scottish stories at the Beeb cannot be commented on.
Twitter & BTL on Newspapers are proving useful, so the Cybernat myth is built so that all who counter the untruths can be dismissed, and any YES minded person who wants to “appear reasonable” gets invited to dismiss them. Some of these “reasonable Nats” even troll the hoi-polloi just to prove how reasonable they are.
If Unionism had astrong, positive message, they would shout it from the rooftops. It does not. So we ger scare stories, attempts to make Scots feel weak, powerless and unworthy and attempts to stop anyone who might be able to say “hang on, that is not true and here is the evidence why” being heard.
Am I right in thinking there is a system at Westminster where members who are going to vote on opposite sides of a division can agree both to be genuinely absent. Maybe this is an alternative explanation (though I hate to provide it)? If so, the name of the Tory or Lib member with whom Davidson made any such an agreement would be able to be supplied to clear the whole thing up.
I also note that Labour for Independence was refused a stall at Labour’s spring conference.
Labour’s principles don’t make me laugh.
Nope, ran it a few times to be sure (and just because it felt good to see him put on the spot by someone with a direct query), I don’t think there’s any confusion over question, context, or answer. Mr Davidson’s reply is unequivocal and at complete odds with official record. Either he is becoming extremely forgetful in his advancing years or he is a liar caught on camera.
“Twitter & BTL on Newspapers are proving useful,”
Very much my feeling Erchie. Use their own propaganda tools against them to get the other POV across.
He abstained from voting on the Bedroom tax, along with Brown, Harris and Darling et al. I don’t think we need say any more other than ask why is not voting the ‘right thing to do’? Has he given up on democracy as well as socialist ideals?
G P Walrus
Yes. The system s called “pairing” and is done by the whips of the parties. It has broken down in the past. I think in Major’s time the Tories cheated to win a vote, so it broke down then.
However, adavidson stated categorically tht he voted against the motion, so he is lying. He does not say “Arrangements were made so both I, and someone else who would have voted foarewee not present, he said categorically that he voted no.
When I watch evidence, like this, which clearly proves the machinations of the Labour Party, I still come back to some basic questions. I ask the questions as I simply cannot understand what the point of all these lies is.
Why does Davidson clearly place himself in one camp, then be seen to be in the other? (I’m assuming that by turning up in Glasgow, he was trying to associate himself with the anti-bedroom tax movement) If there is a point, a political point, then it’s difficult to see it. It doesn’t make sense. Is there a strategy that is so subtle that it is lost on me?
Perhaps Davidson is unbalanced? Maybe he simply is a career orientated man who will do anything to keep his position. Perhaps there is another answer, perhaps the UK is really in such an economic mess that people like Davidson are simply struggling to find a way through the mess, to find a way to express themselves. What’s a person like Davidson to do, when he doesn’t know what to do? His party doesn’t know what to do. The old methods and policies have no relevance in this present economic landscape. Perhaps his turning up in Glasgow was a small sign of remorse on his part.
Or maaybe he just really is a hypocrite.
@Erchie
at5.20am
I like your comment especially the “reasonable nats” bit.
I assume that the intention of the video is to expose Davidson as the lying hypocrite that he obviously is. The real target audience is Davidsons own constituents who will see him for what he is and hopefully vote him into the history books ASAP. Being nice about it would fail. This had to be presented in the language that Davidson’s constituents will understand. They have been talked down to for long enough. This video is someone speaking up for them. One of their own having the guts to question Davidson. Just Davidson running away is priceless he was probably looking for a convenient “Subway” to hide in. The video was not intended for the Morningside Ladies Association. And the Capernicious of Corstorphine`s of this world need to get real!
I hope Scotlandsbedroomtax`s video goes viral. Because regardless of language it shows Davidson for what he is. No more being on our knees accepting bullshit from MPs. Also these same MPs now have to realise that with modern technology they cant get away with fobbing off crap like this anymore.
It astonishes me that Labour can continue to play this game of running with the hare and hunting with the hounds. The fundamental reason that they cannot clearly state their policies on almost anything of significance is that they are completely schizoid: what they have to say in Scotland is 180 degrees away from what they have to say in England. Are you against Trident renewal? Yes and no. Are you against workfare? Yes and no. Are you against the Bedroom Tax? Yes and no.
This sort of thing reaches a climax of cognitive dissonance when they join a demonstration against legislation which they themselves introduced and which they continue to support. One experiences a kind of double vision, seeing two Labour Parties, both a little out of focus – it’s surreal. Another example: they tried to close Monklands General Hospital, then attended the demonstrations outside against that closure. Oh yes, I’ve remembered the word. Doublethink.
link to acadvertiser.co.uk
Hey Rev. Mind and change the clock on the comments. Caught me out.
“How did you vote?”
At a demonstration against the Bedroom Tax it would be very odd indeed if Ian Davidson thought the question was about anything other than the bedroom tax. Indeed, one might think that the MP was being at least a tad disingenuous. One might also wonder why he was there?
I am not sure that joining in his new game of context free replies is actually a step in the right direction.
If we were to accept Mr Hothesalls interpretation we are truly through the looking glass.
‘When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.’
Who knew that Humpty Dumpty had jumped out of fiction and landed on Glasgow Green?
@ scotlandsbedroomtax
I wonder what kind of answer you would have got if you where of the female Persuasion, and as for swearing Mr Davidson is quite fond of using colourful metaphor’s too
This sort of thing reaches a climax of cognitive dissonance when they join a demonstration against legislation which they themselves introduced and which they continue to support. One experiences a kind of double vision, seeing two Labour Parties, both a little out of focus – it’s surreal.
To return to Orwell yet again: Doublethink/Doublespeak.
And they’re getting away with it too. For as long as there is a compliant and complicit media, these fucking scum will carry on regardless. Hothersall’s embarrassing foray into this stushie is utterly laughable; having now made himself a complete laughing stock, not a word from his mouth can now be taken seriously.
Dont get me wrong about the editing the video. Im not in any way offended by the language used. However, I have posted this on my Facebook page, and the link is back to Wings. I have over 800 ‘friends’ some of whom just MAY be offended, and I dont want the message to be diluted in any way.
BTW I posted this at10.26, so the clock is wrong!
@David McCann
at9.24am.????
The Rev. WILL HAVE NO IDEA WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.
I see
Duncan Hothersall was very quick to point out you were wrong Rev… but has since not returned. I assume he now believes Mr Davidson was, actually, just lying?
O/T
This is what I see when I go onto Herald this morning !!!
THe Changes
DRAFT: “The extensive use of patient unavailability codes means that nationally reported waiting times did not provide a complete picture of how long patients waited”
FINAL: Deleted
DRAFT: “This may have disguised boards’ inability to meet waiting list targets”
FINAL: Deleted
DRAFT: “We found many unusual patterns in the waiting list data that are difficult to explain”
FINAL: Replaced by pared-down account of code numbers rising and falling
DRAFT: “We are unable to provide assurance that there was no manipulation of waiting lists in other NHS boards [besides Lothian and Tayside]”
FINAL: “It is not possible to trace all the amendments that may have been made to the records of patients waiting for treatment, or to identify the reasons for them”
Are you sure he’s running away……might just have been trying to find a Subway to get into. By the way, what’s that badge he’s wearing..anybody know?
I think the most telling thing was the way Hothersall immediately tried to spin Davidsons words. He is a perfect example of Labour in Scotland.
I don’t know what is worse. Davidsons lying, or Hothersall attempting to spin it. A perfect example of a party that is corrupt, and rotten to the core.
Well done Mr scotlandsbedroomtax: It will interesting to see whether the BBC, STV or any newspapers pick up on this. The Easter weekend does tend to be a bit quiet on news so this could fill out BBC and STV news this evening. Have they been in contact with you yet?
“Chairman of the Scottish Affairs Committee filmed lying on camera to a member of the public” seems a reasonable title for an article.
The swearing adds colour to the clip.
@Duncan Hothersall, find yourself a new hobby.
Oh you people crack me up. Thanks for the laugh.
ditto
If the Chairman of the Scottish Affairs Select Committee is not a liar, then to describe him as such would amount to defamation. So, to remove all doubt and thereby clear his name and keep his reputation intact, Mr Davidson should raise a Court action.
@duncan hothersall
Oh you people crack me up. Thanks for the laugh
Oh thanks, Duncan. We do our best.
I suppose earnest concern that MPs should speak the truth must appear quite amusing to someone who sees politics as a game of cleverly persuading the stupid public to vote for politicians who support abhorrent policies.
Duncan, we’ve established he DID mean the bedroom tax vote not the workfare vote, but GP’s point that “absent” might mean paired with a yes vote remains unresolved. Folk were asking for a reply from you, and we get “you crack me up. thanks for the laugh”. I need to hear reason from both sides. had some mindless spite but also some reason from Indy side in this, can I have reason now from your side – like your earlier post and unlike this one?
Don’t be offended, Wings people. Duncan is referring to some other group of people altogether.
“Oh you people crack me up. Thanks for the laugh.”
On the other hand, associates of criminals like yourself are not in the least bit funny.
@undecidedsocialist; doesn’t matter if he was paired. MPS (and councillors) commonly catch a cold when there is a vote that they don’t want to record an opinion on. I’m surprised that Davidson lied when the truth, though suspicious, was much more harmless.
I stopped listening to Duncan Hothersall’s attempts to constantly defend the indefensible when he stuck up for Denis MacShane link to en.wikipedia.org
Credibility in tatters, just like Iain Davidson, Jackie Baillie and numerous others.
Bottom line. Show the video to the average man or woman in the street and their conclusion will be that Davidson is lying. No doubt! It is not just what he says but the way that he says it and runs away like a big feartie.
People especially Glasweegians do not take kindly to anyone taking the piss. And that is what any attempt to spin this will be seen as.
Jeannie – his lapel pin could be a version of the Morning Star for Peace and Socialism badge. I don’t think he’s the sherriff of Laramie.
Jeannie
I think his badge is the golds star of the Scottish Workers and Peasants Red Party
Awarded to the heid chairchoob Only bullies liars and troughers need apply They were spoilt for choice and he only won because of his appearance on Newsnicht
Think you’re wasting your time directing anything at Duncan.
Like Davidson, he’s off.
UndecidedSocialist
If you think of Duncan Hothersall as a volunteer Labour spin-doctor, you wouldn’t be far wrong. He’s a moderator on the Tom Harris vanity blog “Labourhame”. As many here will attest, that means that while he gets to post here, spout bollocks and we get to point out where said bollocks is untrue, there he, and others, spout bollocks, and dissenting posts with evidence to the contrary never sees the light of day.
“If you think of Duncan Hothersall as a volunteer Labour spin-doctor, you wouldn’t be far wrong. He’s a moderator on the Tom Harris vanity blog “Labourhame”. As many here will attest, that means that while he gets to post here, spout bollocks and we get to point out where said bollocks is untrue, there he, and others, spout bollocks, and dissenting posts with evidence to the contrary never sees the light of day.”
In the interests of scrupulous fairness, I feel I should speak up for Duncan here in one regard. While the above is absolutely true, and is also true of almost all Unionist websites, he does permit comments on his own blog without pre-moderation. In fact offhand I can’t think of a single other example of a non-pre-moderated Unionist blog, so fair play on that.
C’mng on now Duncan, you must addmit, your Mr davidson was at a protest against the bedroom tax and was asked by a member of the public how he voted and he replied that he ‘voted against it’ you are trying to say that Mr davidson was refering to the ‘welfare bill’ yet the protest wasn’t about that, so at very least Mr Davidson would have (if he was being honest with the public) clarified that he was refering to the welfare bill vote and not the bedroom tax.
In any case Mr Davidson was at a rally for the public to protest against the bedroom tax yet he himself was one of the few people there who has had the oportunity to oppose the government by voting against it, Mr Davidson along with Gordon Brown and our very own Alistair Darling chose not to vote against it.
They say 100,000 people will be directly effected by this tax in Scotland and these people will be looking closely at who did and did not vote for this cruel legislation.
So have a good laugh Duncan, and watch how the Yes campaign wins another few thousand committed members.
@Clarinda
I don’t think he’s the sherriff of Laramie.
No, but I think he might be the sheriff of “Dodge” City.
I would let Duncan Hothersall try to spin it his way. He’s flogging a dead horse with his workfare suggestion. No-one would buy his interpretation of the events at a Bedroom Tax rally, and it just shows that he has no handle of events and cannot tell when to cut his losses. And the fact that he finds it funny shows that he still believes he has credibility!!! All the better for the Yes campaign!!
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Macart says:
31 March, 2013 at 8:21 am
“Twitter & BTL on Newspapers are proving useful,” Very much my feeling Erchie. Use their own propaganda tools against them to get the other POV across.
———————————
Macart and Erchie, I like your suggestions very much!! Its much like a media guerilla war then; and effectively the opposing side are arming us. A wee bit like Wallace and Bruce using guerilla tactics in the Wars of Independence – and we all know who won that!!
Why does Ian Davidson’s behaviour not shock or astonish me, I’m only surprised he didn’t give the questioner a ‘doing’.
Oh and further to my earlier post Duncan, I’ve just saw on Labour for Independence face book page, that the person questioning Mr Davidson was a former labour councilor and leader of Dumbartonshire council, Danny Mc Cafferty.
Just saying like
Rev
Ta for the scrupulous fairness re Duncan Hothersall’s own blog. I looked at it and even saw your owncomments for all to see.
J
@Vellofello
Well done Mr scotlandsbedroomtax: It will interesting to see whether the BBC, STV or any newspapers pick up on this.
Without being unduly cynical I think the chances of that happening are very slim. If they are not going to report Foulkes’ comments then I cannot see them covering this.
If he had voted no it would have been in support of the government bearing in mind the motion they were voting on. But he didn’t, he was absent and has been exposed as a bare faced liar.
The motion:
I beg to move,
That this House deplores and opposes the Government’s introduction of the housing benefit under-occupancy penalty; believes it to be unjust and unworkable; notes growing public anger at its introduction; believes that the Government is showing a reckless lack of care and attention to the consequences of its introduction for low-income households affected by disability; further believes that it will adversely affect, amongst others, families of service personnel, foster families and those struggling with the effects of family breakdown; notes that some parts of the UK will be disproportionately hit because of the mismatch between the available social housing stock and the needs of tenants; further notes that according to the Department for Work and Pensions’ Equality Impact Assessment, 63 per cent of the 660,000 claimants affected by the under-occupancy penalty or their partners are disabled; believes that the measure unfairly penalises tenants in rural and inner-city areas; further believes the under-occupancy penalty will fail to meet its stated objectives; and calls on the Government to abandon this policy immediately.
Ayes 224, Noes 265.
Yes is is interesting that Ian Davidson had the bare-faced hypocrisy to come to Glasgow Green to be “seen” supporting the campaign against the bedroom-tax when he couldn’t bother to vote against it at Westminster.
I note that other labour “leaders” such as Anas Sarwar were prancing around George Square with their followers, is this to try and kid us into believing that they still have links with the Labour movement of the Red Clydeside or is it just cheep attempts at deception.
I’ve listened now to the clip several times and am left pondering whether Ian Davidson is a liar, a hypocrite or both. I’m always moaning about getting balance into the arguments, so here is my attempt to do so.
Although the questioner is clear in his own head that he was speaking about the Bedroom Tax, I can just about see how the word “abstain” in the first question might have set off a chain reaction in Mr. Davidson’s head in which he might have thought he was being asked about the Workfare vote – something along the lines of, he thought of himself as a hero for standing against the Labour Party whip on this issue and voting no when the Party abstained. He would therefore have thought he was about to receive a compliment on the Workfare issue and when asked why the Labour Party abstained, opined that THEY thought it was the right thing to do. If you are egotistical enough to see yourself as a hero, you tend to hear what you want to hear – in this case, “You voted No- my hero. He was then surprised when the compliments didn’t appear. It’s possible, then, that in this instance, he’s not so much a liar as just hearing what he wants to hear, and, in fairness, Rev Stu has invited him to clarify the situation.
Still in “hero” mode though, he shows up at the Bedroom Tax Rally and purports to support victims of the tax. But when he COULD actually support them in the way he’s paid to do, i.e. vote against the Conservative-Lib Dem government which is imposing the tax…..he is mysteriously absent. To me, that makes him a hypocrite.
Stretching it….I could see a way to give him the benefit of the doubt on the question of whether he is, on this occasion, a liar. But I can’t see any way round him acting in a cynical and hypocritical way by showing up at the rally yesterday when he was absent from the actual vote. Maybe he could clarify that, too, when he responds.
I can see Duncan’s point about us making him laugh. He has truthiness on his side. How can it be anything other than hilarious when we try to prove him wrong with things like facts and logic? Let’s get serious: politics isn’t about honesty or fairness, it’s about telling the most convincing lies to people who don’t want to hear the truth. Duncan knows that, which is why he laughs at the hopeless idealists who think politicians should have principles, honour or shame. He laughed at them when they voted for the SNP and he’ll still be laughing at them when they vote for independence. Then, on September 19, 2014, he’ll be laughing at all those people who didn’t agree with him that independence was desirable and inevitable.
“truthieness” Love it
Truthiness copyright Stephen Colbert
Why was Davidson at the rally at all ?
It seems he did absolutely nothing to stop the bedroom tax when he actually had a chance to do his job and make a difference by voting for the good of his electorate.
Then caught on camera like a rabbit in the headlights, he proceeds to insert both feet into his mouth so far they actually stick right out of his erse.
Public figure, at a public rally with you guessed it , members of the public, he waddles off saying “look I’m not having an argument in public”.
Think about it for a minute, it is a perfect view of the labour party in miniature.
Do nothing when it counts, lie about it afterwards. then refuse to discuss it at all.
I can understand Duncan Hothersall’s embarrassment, shame and disappointment. From pictures I’ve seen of him he looks quite young. I’d like him to try to imagine how I feel – I supported Labour for 40 years. My shame is with me every day when I see their foul behaviour and can’t begin to imagine how the founders of Labour would feel about the DISGRACE the current leaders are. Why can’t I post on LabourHame Duncan? – your are perfectly free to defend your point here!
@Ian Mackay
Well since they’ve been nice enough to provide the general public with a forum for discussion…………….. seems a shame to miss the opportunity to punt our own sites and favoured articles on there as a counterpoint.
BBC comments was perhaps the best outlet for counter views, which of course was why they shut it down. Still with a little selective thought about who we’re hoping to convince, picking the right news forums can prove quite productive. I’ve managed one or two online conversions myself and I have nowhere near the knowledge or persuasive talents of most of the posters on this site.
When someone gets a chance they need to ask ID why he was absent from both votes, I’m with the opinion that he thought he was being asked about workfare; labour politicians didn’t abstain from either bedroom tax vote.
‘Unionists are attacking this page.They are attempting to have this vid removed.They are also marking comments as ”spam”’
Just found the above comment under the clip on You Tube. They’ll never learn will they?
Ho ho ho…..
Peach!!!
Bill
I’d like him to try to imagine how I feel…
—-
As far as I can make out, Mr Hothersall doesn’t do empathy. Politics, for him, is just a game and a bit of a laugh.
So, this conversation is about voting for Bedroom tax part 2(for council tenants) . Does anyone know how Davidson voted for Bedroom tax part 1 (for tenants of private landlords)?
Sandy says:
31 March, 2013 at 1:46 pm
Why was Davidson at the rally at all
A very good question Sandy, why indeed? Never mind all the spinning that’s gone on afterwards trying to provide air cover – what was going on in his mind when he turned up?
Davidson is listed as voting alongside the SNP here:
link to publications.parliament.uk
Not sure if that is the one he was being asked about in the clip though.
Just to clarify, it now seems that it wasn’t Danny Mc Cafferty who was the interviewer so my appologies.
It would be fantastic if labour try to get the youtube video banned, the last time they tried this(Unionist myths debunked) it ended up being viewed by over a million people and counting lol.
Already we have now got newsnet running its own story on this as well as the follow up by Tom Harris and Duncan H, it’s a spectacular own goal by Davidson as people don’t like being lied to, or misslead. the fact Duncan and Tom are trying to defend and deflect takes it from a problem of Ian Davidsons honesty, to a problem with the Labour parties honesty.
Thanx Duncan, thanx Tom
I was with the person who conducted this interview and he was definitely not called Danny McCafferty? I don’t know who that is?
wee update:
I think lab4indy are telling fibs.
My name is NOT Danny McCafferty
A few folks on twitter and facebook know who I am and can testify that I’m not the name above.
Anybody notice the slogan on the front of the Herald today? Either very clever or very savvy . Think demo about bedroom tax, referendum, ideology etc or could just have been aimed at N Korea ?
Anyone hear Dame Anne Begg MP interviewed on Radio Scotland this morning? She happily condemned the bedroom tax then was asked why Labour didn’t vote against it. Seems that we’re all mistaken! Between lots of ers, umms, and nervous laughter, Begg assured us that Labour DID act against it at every opportunity, and that any suggestion otherwise is just political shenanigans from the SNP, who have a nerve to accuse Labour of anything given that they stayed in bed instead of voting on the minimum wage.
When asked if a future Labour government would abolish the tax, they don’t have a position on it yet, but it depends, might look at housing benefits, er… yes.
Yes I heard the Begg interview but she was asked (based it seems on the online reporting of Davidson) why so many Labour MPS abstained, she’s right to say they didn’t abstain. It’s all got rather confused it seems to me …….. the point is why did so many Labour MPS not turn up for the votes, were ABSENT. The abstention direction came from the Labour front bench on the workfare tinkering after the appeal was upheld.
And yes Begg took the chance to kick the SNP for misrepresenting wht happened in the votes on the bedroom tax when actually they’d nothing to do with it. On this story I think the reporting hasn’t been great from an online perspective. Has anyone even reported, accurately, who was asking Davidson the questions?
And it’s already pretty clear Labour wouldn’t reverse the bedroom tax, of course she was allowed to balh, blah, blah on that.
I will admit to being disappointed not to see a story this morning saying that Ian Davidson had offered to get back in touch with the gentleman in the video to clear up any possible misunderstanding.
Then I realised that to really work, April Fools have to be at least slightly plausible.
@scotlandsbedroomtax
I think Danny McCafferty is the guy with Ian Davidson.
I have no time for Davidson, but I think too much is being made of this. I think he obviously thought he was being asked about the more recent and higher profile vote on changing the law on Workfare, where he did defy the Labour leadership and vote against it rather than abstain as whipped to. This incident shows him to be smug and not a good listener, but not a liar I think. Go watch all the who video and you can see what happens. The main lesson s not to give ad hoc interviews to guys with camcorders if you are an MP, and if you do give them the same attention and respect as you would with a MSN TV interview.
And by the way. Ian Davidson is a liar. Just not in this incident where “lost in translation”: would be my assessment. I don’t see why you need Davidson to contact you directly to clarify this as I think it is quite obvious to all but the most partisan. And it is all just a distraction from the campaign against the bedroom Tax. Davidson turned up to the demo, which I suspect is more than most of you posters did. If they had, they could have asked him themselves.
” Davidson turned up to the demo, which I suspect is more than most of you posters did.”
Why didn’t he vote against it, if he felt so strongly about it?
This is for Alan Smart..why would he think the questioner was asking about a workfare vote at a bedroom tax rally? That’s like me being asked at a Tom Jones concert what I think about the singing. Would I assume that the person asking, was asking me about the concert I was at, at the moment….or would I think that the questioner was referring to Justin Beibers concert last week? And when I would say I thought the singing was terrible, the questioner would probably be confused as I didn’t give the expected answer….that doesn’t really stack up does it? If I was at a Tom Jones concert and was asked my opinion, I’d rightly assume that I was being questioned about the concert I’m currently attending….I think Davidson just gave the answer he thought might just make the questioner back off and give him an easy time. He would know that if he came clean….?? He wouldn’t think for a minute that his information would be checked later and posted online, exposing him as a liar….
Alan Smart,
Seems to me that Davidson said what he had to to get out of a situation he was uncomfortable with. A bit of a Subway moment. A bit of a lose – lose situation for Davidson, MP ( Labour – Glasgow South West (for the moment)).
We have him on tape being, at the very least, disingenuous and walking away. I imagine he thought that that was that. Well it hasn’t been has it Alan?
You and Duncan are asking us to believe that this is a context free answer by Ian Davidson. It is, really and truly, a bit of a stretch.
Why are you willing to give him the benefit of the doubt? No-one else, absent the aforementioned fun loving Duncan Hothersall seems to agree. What gives you two greater insight than the rest of us?
Do tell.
To clarify – I said too much was being made of what was a bit of a non event,motivated I suggest by a fair bit of personal dislike for Davidson and naked partisanship.
And a definite distraction on a day the Con-Dems introduced the Bedroom Tax and other measures that are arguably worse. But a foresnic examination of what Ian Davidson mistakenly said in a non event of an encouter with a camcorder is what gets some people going?
No Alan
It’s Davidson that gets people going.
Dace – that is my point. It is who he is not what he said in this non event of an encounter and his apparent “lie” that gets folks going. He ain’t that important, ain’t worth bothering about, certainly in this context
I agree
@douglas clark
Agree!
Like what others have said. If it had been anyone from the SNP it would have been all over the front pages. How many unionists would have given them the benefit of the doubt? Would that be a non-event?
Davidson is a liar!
To Man in the Jar
AGREED! If this had been SNP it would have been front pages in all the unionist rags and probably even make it to the telly! Can anyone seriously imagine the media scrum if Nicola Sturgeon said on camera that she’d voted X when in fact she’d not voted at all? Would have been a blaze of headlines!! NICOLA STURGEON LIAR…SNP LIARS etc etc etc… I suggest WE ALL carry camcorders to all of these events in the hope of ‘bumping’ into some of these people…..they need exposing! The camera doesn’t lie…..
Why post anything that splits this campaign. It merely shows that you are only interested in the Political ego activity for your own purposes and not in building alliance across the Political groups. As a Labour supporter I’m happy to have everyone campaigning with Labour to defeat this legislation. I’m afraid that the same cannot be said of some others on this page. All the focus of SNP, Far Left groups is on personal positioning trying to use the Bedroom Tax to attack Labour and it’s wrong.
Glover, Mr Davidson was NOT part of the demo…he was skirting around the edges, watching, observing…. He did not look to me as though he was there to protest…I would go so far as to say he’s a enemy of the state whose precise job was to attend, observe and report back. I really don’t think the likes of Davidson and the vast majority of the Labour Party either in Holyrood or Westminster, give a toss about the bedroom tax…Labour were the party who initiated it all. They are for the union and will do all they can to keep this union for their own ends. Have they been ‘promised’ dividends for a NO vote? I suspect many of them have been, Darling,Davidson, Moore & Mundell especially spring to mind.. One wonders what will become of them with a YES vote? More video from the demo has been uploaded and more to come, showing Mr Davidson, the protestor…..in full action..
As a matter of course I was under the impression that our politicians get voted in by the electorate to do the wishes of the electorate. as the electorate were fully against the “bedroom tax” how could any of them vote for it and more specifically how could they vote regarding the electorates wishes if they were absent from the vote. And should thy not all be there all the time to vote on every issue.
Glover as an ex-Labour voter the people destroying your party are not the SNP or anyone else supporting independence the culprits are the likes of MrDavidson who have tagged onto the party out of self interest.The party are bereft of ideas and so distant from their core support they’d need to discover a warp drive to gain parity. Look at Labour in Scotland when was their last leader not forced to resign through incompetence or something worse. The people are still there but the party isin’t. The Labour party use the emotional tie of standing for the weak but that is not true , certainly not since John Smith’s demise. Independence gives the real socialists a chance to reclaim their party, for me too late , too tainted Jenny Marra ‘s display on the ref debate where she also lied about the origins of the bedroom tax when Keith Brown had highlighted the policy would never come to light in an iScotland. So while Davidson is an obvious source due to his profile against independence the party is mired with disingenuous character willing to say anything to retain their opportunities to gain control at Westminster. Not whats best for the people of Scotland.
It’s not surprising that so many Labour MPs abstained from voting as it’s another ace up their sleeve for the coming election to beat the Tories with with such a controversial policy, politics isn’t about doing what’s best for the country or constituents, it’s about leverage which more often than not comes at the detriment of the people of the UK, it’s one of the many ugly faces of the political system that we the people need to change…….imho