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Flowering up

Posted on September 05, 2015 by

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    1. 05 09 15 08:43

      Flowering up | Speymouth

    2. 05 09 15 11:55

      Flowering up | Politics Scotland | Scoop.it

    249 to “Flowering up”

    1. theMadMurph says:

      oh how those sun flowers can grow! How soon till its peeking over the fence?

    2. MajorBloodnok says:

      I use John Bullshit(e) compost for all my horticultural needs. Because is you really need bullshit, there’s bullshit and then there’s British bullshit.

    3. Muscleguy says:

      And the best thing is those Westminster bullshitters have no idea a lot of the time that they are in fact fertilising Scottish Independence.

    4. Suzanne says:

      Oh yes. Keep heaping it on, Westminster. All good stuff.

    5. Macart says:

      No end of uses you can find for a good bag of John Bullshit. Its even been known to prop up crumbling parliament buildings.

      After the events of the past year I’m not surprised that sunflower has had a wee growth spurt.

      Nice one Chris.

    6. jimnarlene says:

      That flower is going to get rather large, there’s an unlimited supply of John Bull Shit(e).

    7. Finlay says:

      Watered with the blood, sweat and tears of those who dare to hope for a better future for our ‘cubs’ who, like Scottish rainclouds, only ever seem to be gathering!

    8. Croompenstein says:

      So good to see Hamish again nice one Chris 🙂

    9. Malcolm says:

      Spot on Chris. Roll on the 60% mark.

    10. Sassenach says:

      Ian Murray asking Angus for all opposition parties to “speak with one voice” – just like they did on the Austerity measures!!! The gall of that hypocrite!

    11. galamcennalath says:

      Excellent!

      The fence is at 57%, I notice. Fair enough 🙂

      Muscleguy says:

      those Westminster bullshitters … are in fact fertilising Scottish Independence

      They are certainly playing their part. It does rather surprise me just how readily they throw away the Union they lied and cheated so hard to maintain. Perhaps, stupid as stupid does.

    12. Les Wilson says:

      I am amazed how you keep coming up with these Chris, never a failure, always on the ball.

    13. Helena Brown says:

      Having met a load of bullshitters over the past 12 days you know one thing, they are frightened to death. When something is that feared they tend to do a lot of it. Hamish has put it to the best use, as should we all. Funnily enough seems the Scots have drifted away from ocean cruising and onto the European Rivers, and that was another reason for the liberal application of said shite.

    14. Anne Bruce says:

      Brings on a smile after such a harrowing few days.

      Thanks, Chris.

    15. Dorothy Devine says:

      Brilliant!

    16. Luigi says:

      Great pic.

      I love the message: The fence, the flower, the bags of John Bullshit, and of course, Hamish chilling out, waiting for the inevitable.

      Old John Bull is sweating on the other side of the fence, lobbing those bags of BBC bullshit over, in the hope that some will stick, Hamish will be frightened off and hide away back in the box. Little does he know, however, that Hamish is very relaxed at the moment, and has put the bullshit to good use, feeding the ever growing sunflower aka public support for independence. John Bull is getting edgey, a bit rattled. He knows something is happening on the other side of the fence, something big, but he cannot see it yet. He cannot see it because his unionist mind does not want to see it, so he sees all sorts of other, crazy imagined stuff and it scares the hell out of him, so he lobs ever bigger bags of bullshit over the fence.

      Hamish says: “Keep em coming, John – you’re doing a fine job!. 🙂

    17. Nana Smith says:

      Very excellent fragrant cartoon this morning. Hamish looking nice and relaxed.

      Spades of british bullshit
      As much as they can throw
      Spread thickly by the bbc
      Helps independence grow

      I know this is not a poetry site Rev, sorry but I could’nt resist.

    18. Socrates MacSporran says:

      I have nothing against John Bullshit, a very old and long-established product, which has worked well all over the world.

      However, under no circumstances should you go near Uncle Sam’s Bullshit – a much-worse and far-more-deadly product.

    19. yesindyref2 says:

      Having visually drawn a graph in my imagination, plotting the growth up to the Ref, the growth till about March this year, and the growth to this last poll, I have very carefully calculated that the movement in the y-axis over the time on the x-axis will reach 60% by exactly 24th March 2016.

      Mmm, now where have I heard that date before?

    20. No no no...Yes says:

      Welcome back Chris, this is brilliant on so many levels.

      Luigi 9:11am That’s just how I see it too. Hamish has the advantage of a wee spyhole, which is our 56MPs at Westminster watching their every move.

    21. DerekM says:

      haha nice one Chris and very apt for the moment we find ourselves in 🙂

      poor old John Bull i had a keek ower the fence and his onions arnt doing to great they be withered and going mouldy from all the exposure they are getting,and if you listen closely you can hear them squeak sunflowers bad,poor sad little things but thats what he gets for buying yon American bullshit.

    22. Lesley-Anne says:

      The shit on the bus goes round and round, round and round.

      Oh wait a minute something stinks about that. I don’t think these are the words to the song I once knew about a bus! 😀

    23. steveasaneilean says:

      “Have patience. All things are difficult before they become easy”

    24. heedtracker says:

      It has been an exciting week for John Bullshit meeja too. Press and Journal got Trump to plop some of his bullshit all over Holyrood and rancid The Graun says Scottish democracy is too expensive, maybe even a waste of money. Surely these frauds wouldn’t really think that though.

      https://archive.is/HJkVk plop

      https://archive.is/TcB2X plop plop

    25. louis.b.argyll says:

      So, UK planning to sort out Syria/refugee crisis by bombing campaign against ‘I.S’.

      Note to Cameron…check the cause and effect… Where’s Assad.. He’s the cause..and can you 100% guarantee that no civilians OR infrastructure will be compromised.

    26. louis.b.argyll says:

      Er..just posted..and page saying..

      ‘connection to this site is not private’

      Never seen this before on here..
      Anyone else get this..?

    27. galamcennalath says:

      When rosy May comes in wi’ flowers

      Robert Burns

    28. Grouse Beater says:

      Here’s some classic Brit bullshit:

      Vince Cable: “Historically, the coalition will be seen as a success”

      In terms of impoverishing the poor more than before, and enriching the wealthy, yes.

      The ‘clever’ politician who foresaw the economic crash turned out be pretty useless as a government minister. What little chat show reputation he had soon evaporated.

    29. John Sm. says:

      Thank you Chris.

      A lovely optimistic cartoon to raise a smile this Saturday morning.

      Hamish’s tools set aside awaiting use.. in the shape of the saltire.

      🙂

    30. Marie Clark says:

      I don’t know how you do it Chris, but man, you’re a master at hitting the nail squarely on the head. Nice to see Hamish again.

      Wonderful. Fairly made me smile on this lovely sunny morning.

      Well done sir.

    31. Iona says:

      So,so clever. Much enjoyed. ????

    32. Dr Jim says:

      Flower of Scotland

      Growing taller the more British Shite you throw at it

      Bill and Ben and the man who owns the garden are in the pub wondering why the Bullshit isn’t having the same effect on their Roses

    33. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      louis.b.argyll at 10.16

      Assad is NOT the cause. Assad has massive popular support in Syria but is a sore inconvenience to US and UK as he, among other things like taking millions of Christian refugees from Iraq for instance has supported Iran continuously and closed the back door into Iran that the US would have liked open.
      The cause is the terrorists we funded and armed to attack Syria which have morphed into ISIS who we are now bombing.
      Just like we armed the Taliban

      Do not believe one word about the Middle East from any official UK, US or Western media source.

      The evil axis in the world today is the US/UK axis.
      More and more people are wakening up to this.
      We must get out

    34. Yipe, just about says it all.

    35. heedtracker says:

      Here’s some classic Brit bullshit

      http://effiedeans.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/the-melting-pot-melts-nationalism.html?spref=tw

      Scotland doesnt exist anymore, from SNPout.com tactical vote center. Not insane at all. Although he/she is RTing this charming pile of ukok billshit too

      http://ianssmart.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/its-still-over.html?spref=tw

      SNP bad, Scottish democracy bad, Alex Salmond bad…

      “The problem for the thinking Nats is that it isn’t entirely clear a majority of the SNP membership appreciate that. After all, thinking and nationalism have seldom been easy bed fellows and this poll only strengthens the internal hand of those not particularly given to the thinking. So the poll might indeed hasten an attempt at a second referendum. The problem, as the thinking Nats know, is that it wouldn’t unfortunately affect the inevitable result.”

      Which type of nat are you? Rule Britannia, the non nat kind of rule Britannia that really weally wuvs you, if you’d just shadap and be British.

    36. Lollysmum says:

      I like Hamish’ wellies-making sure no bullshit soils his feet 🙂

      Excellent toon Chris-keep em coming!

    37. gerry parker says:

      @ Dave, you’ve hit the nail right on the head as usual Dave.

    38. mogabee says:

      Hoi Chris! We gardeners DO NOT sit about, too much to do!

      UK has sold off practically everything they can, so not surprising that bags of (John) Bullshit would be punted too. 😀

    39. Pam McMahon says:

      Another great ‘toon, and am looking forward to your book, when Moodie gets around to publishing it. Us Evil Cybernats are blessed by having the BEST cartoonists.

      Just signed this: http://p.ink.cx/1LQnzT3 which is a petition about swapping Katie Hopkins for 50,000 refugees, in case my link doesn’t work(again).

      It’s also on Facebook and Twitter.

    40. Tackety Beets says:

      Rubens Returns .

      Well done Chris , you have been missed, but you never miss.

      Absolute bullseye as always.

      Thank you.

    41. One_Scot says:

      From a Spock like logical point of view, the more you think about it, the more obvious it becomes that the first referendum was the unionist States best chance to kill off Interdependence.

      It’s beginning to look like they may have failed.

    42. Alan Mackintosh says:

      Louisb, Was going to pick you up on that but Dave beat me to it. Isis/Isil/Daesh is another example of “our enemies enemy is our friend”. The goal is to destabilise Syria which is the latest country to suffer the aim of the neocons and their projsect for a new american century (PNAC). They have been funded and supported by CIA, UK and US govt and surprise-surprise Israel.

      Many of the refugees will be Christians, who were safe in Assad’s Syria. (As they were in Iraq, prior to the adventures there) However in the rebel held areas, they are now under threat and in some cases have been given hours to leave, their homes and their lives. And as for Turkey being a safe haven, hmm maybe, but not if you’re a Kurd.

      This link gives you a lot of background information with sources.

      http://www.globalresearch.ca/syrian-war-islamic-state-isis-creation-timeline/5472680

    43. Croompenstein says:

      Rubens Returns

      Aye Tackety I’d heard he was changing his name to Kit Kat Cairns as he is always taking a break but he always comes back with the goods. A picture paints a thousand words and Chris nails it again 🙂

    44. GallusEffie says:

      Earworm today

      “sun, sun, sun, here it comes”

      Braw toon Chris. Drawing our own conclusions in every sense.

    45. The Man in the Jar says:

      I am minded to paraphrase a old saying from my army days.

      “Unionists are like manure. A small amount scattered around can actually do some good. However put a lot of it in the one place at the one time and the stench becomes unbearable.”

    46. ahundredthidiot says:

      Louisbargyll

      Does the b stand for bileyerheid?

    47. Alan Mackintosh says:

      Further to my post a few above, you can add Saudi and Qatar to the funders behind IS/Daesh.

    48. manandboy says:

      Hamish says:- I never promised you a rose garden!

    49. call me dave says:

      That’s cheered me up a lot today, soon be keeking over the fence I think. 🙂

      I hope, on political grounds, that’s a approved Sunflower and not a GM hybrid.

      PS: Queenie countdown in the Telegraph: Wednesday is the big day!
      Well they had to be accurate.
      ————————————————————
      Elizabeth II has been Queen of England for:

      63 : 212 : 06 : 04
      Yrs Days Hrs Mins

      ‘A formidable matriarch’
      ————————————————————

      Heard on ‘Off the Ball’ We are a tennis and rugby nation not football. Switched off, not in the mood! 🙁

    50. Yesitis says:

      ‘Bullshit compost’
      🙂

    51. heedtracker says:

      https://twitter.com/Historywoman

      WoS has got Britnat intelligentsia/idiots very agitated this week, merely with a twitter block list tweet, makes sense really, one of them says YES Scotland is like Syria, makes a change from their Greek Scotland land frighteners, but on balance SNPouter Effie Deans explaining that moving at least 5 million people from the south of England up to their Scotland region will end vile separatists dreams for ever. Maybe old Effie is a plant after all, a very good one too.

    52. galamcennalath says:

      One_Scot says:

      From a Spock like logical point of view, the more you think about it, the more obvious it becomes that the first referendum was the unionist States best chance to kill off Independence.

      It’s beginning to look like they may have failed.

      Perhaps, blew it might be more accurate.

      I now believe that this period will go into history as the tale of how the Unionists won the vote but, beginning the day after, proceeded to throw away the chance to secure their Union.

    53. galamcennalth says:

      call me dave says:

      Elizabeth II has been Queen of England for:

      Does TG know something we don’t?

      They surely don’t think Scotland will be an independent republic by Wednesday! Nicola and the team are good, but not THAT good.

      Now that would be a news scoop ! 😉

    54. heedtracker says:

      There’s NO Scottish oil left but lashings of UK oil though.

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/11844812/Britain-cant-afford-to-write-off-North-Sea-oil-after-40-years.html#disqus_thread

      They’ve extracted £1.5 trillion says Teleguardian bullshitters and they have big UKOK oil plans too. No wonder Britnats are nuts. I watched hammer of the Scots and darling of the p&j Donald Trump, explain to David Letterman chat show how good UK NHS works and how the U.S. needs to do the same. More Toryboy bullshit to follow in a mo.

    55. Nana Smith says:

      O/T

      Statement by UN High Commissioner for Refugees, António Guterres on refugee crisis in Europe

      http://www.unhcr.org/55e9459f6.html

      It is being reported that the Finnish PM has opened up his second home to refugees.

      Dave are you watching and Tony Blair how many homes do you have now?

    56. ronnie anderson says:

      O/T
      Noo dont aw greet at wance noo.

      The Wee Saltire Shed is no more,its ceased to exist any longer,its as deeded as the deeded Parrot (sadly thats no the Bbc). Its went to that great Chipper in the Sky.

      Its done its job for the Indy cause,but sadly Auld age comes tae us aw.

      REV greater space for a Billboard hint hint.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZQxH_8raCI

    57. call me dave says:

      @galamcennalth

      Naw…Betty is only ‘Queen of Scots’…not Scotland. So they had to do the England thing.

      I’m not violently agin Betty but I hope that she’s the last in the line. Not an important issue at the moment…let the sunflower grow and prosper.

    58. Alba Woman says:

      very clever, very talented. Just love oor Hamish

    59. heedtracker says:

      This is nice.

      https://archive.is/VdtrS

      If only the Raj had had the BBC vote Slab Scotland crew or future Sir Bliar MacDougal at Project Fear.com

    60. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Ronnie Anderson –

      Sorry to hear about the demise of your legendary wee bolthole – many a tear will be ‘shed’. 🙁

    61. Democracy Reborn says:

      @Grouse Beater

      I read that piece in the Guardian about Vince Cable.

      He also thinks that Osborne will be the next prime minister (he might be right).

      Wee George, the man who told the thick, poor Jocks recently that the latest North Sea oil development couldn’t have happened without Mother England. It’s enough to warm a No voter’s heart….

    62. Lesley-Anne says:

      Interesting that Effie … dear dear Effie plans on moving 5 Million people from the South of England to Scotland Heedtracker. It may just me, usually is, but I can think of one or two insignificant teeny weeny itsy bitsy little problems with her *ahem* plan. 😉

      1) How is she going to convince 5 million people to move to Scotland after all we are all too wee, too poor and too stupid to be able to do anything so her compatriots from the South of England will have to do all the work … obviously. Scotland being what it is … cold, dark, dismal, wet, constantly blowing hoolies etc I can’t see too many folks wanting to move, voluntarily to Scotland ad part of dear dear Effie’s plan.

      2) Dear dear Effie does actually know that there there is not exactly a housing surplus in Scotland I mean she is fully aware there is a housing SHORTAGE in Scotland isn’t she? Therefore where is she going to house her 5 million fellow compatriots moving North to save the union?

      3) I don’t know about anyone else but I’m not certain any of dear dear Effie’s *cough* mates will want to stay in a place that could be wiped off the face of the planet in an instant. I mean this is why Cameron’s nuke toys are based in Scotland … right?

      4) As dear dear Effie’s mates will all, most likely, be private home owners then they will, I assume, have to sell their homes Dan Suff before moving up to invade Scotland. Therefore has dear dear Effie managed to arrange for 5 million house buyers in the South of England? What will the sudden arrival of 5 Million houses for sale in the South of England do the Ozzy the Towel Folders financial calculations. Surely only one thing is certain here … a complete and utter COLLAPSE of the South of England’s housing economy.

      Apart from these few wee problems I’m sure dear dear Effie’s plan is a goer. I’m certain she will have sat down with Ozzy the towel folder and worked all the figures out … on the back of his latest white powder delivery package. 😀

    63. bjsalba says:

      @Socrates MacSporran

      Some of them do know – here is a comment by John Hightower.

      The only difference between a pigeon and the American farmer today is that a pigeon can still make a deposit on a John Deere.


      For anyone who doesn’t know – a John Deere is a tractor.

    64. Dr Jim says:

      Effie Deans

      If we can’t get them out we’ll breed them out

      Now where have we heard that before ( insert )

    65. McBodheid says:

      Lesley-Anne says:
      5 September, 2015 at 3:30 pm

      Another point is where are dreary dreary effie’s mates going to move to?
      All these “Open Spaces” are either owned by absentee Lords who use it to kill deer/grouse/beaters etc or undisclosed owners with accounts in the Bahamas.

    66. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood thanks Ian nae worries peeling paint, roof collapesing. Image not good for the Saltire society or the Yes campain.

    67. Midgehunter says:

      If it comes from the Pope, is that holy s**t? 😉

      (Lazy Saturday)

    68. Midgehunter says:

      Test from I-phone (desperation).

    69. The Moidart says:

      I just read that entire blog from that lunatic about “what would happen if five million people from England moved to Scotland “.

      That is one of the most outrageous, disgusting and disturbing articles I have ever read!

      I am absolutely shocked!!

      Imagine a SNP supporter coming up with that in reverse? And they call us Nazis? I am truly astounded.

    70. Helena Brown says:

      Sorry also to hear of the demise of oor “Shed of the Year”. RIP Ronnie’s shed, you never failed in your duty.

    71. Croompenstein says:

      @Nana – disgraceful decision from the Slab councilors. This is why it is even more important to sweep these unionists from our local government in 2017. I wish the elections were sooner…

    72. john king says:

      @ Ronnies shed, nae iconic emblem of the YES movement and a refuge for… to much?

      it hut tae happen…a’ll get ma donkey jaiket. 🙁

      woo hoo the auto fil is back,
      thank f***
      Irenes sick o listenen tae me clackin away at the keypad. 🙁

    73. heedtracker says:

      Lesley-Anne- but I can think of one or two insignificant teeny weeny itsy bitsy little problems with her *ahem* plan

      EffieD’s also wonders how to “encourage” people to move to “those parts of the UK that feel empty”

      “There is an inequality in the UK whereby some people have to live where it is densely populated while others live where almost no-one else lives at all. What could we do to remedy this? We could start by encouraging people to move from those parts of the UK that feel full to those parts of the UK that feel empty.”

      Aberdeen uni academic thinks? He/she’s only on the right of blue and red toryboy teamGB but she/he’s also only working with likes of UKOK nutty Professor and future Lord A Tomkinski

      https://notesfromnorthbritain.wordpress.com/author/conlawforum/

      “This time last year I was terrified that we were about to lose our country.”

      And then f-wits at FT publish UKOK stuff like this

      http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2349c87a-50d2-11e5-8642-453585f2cfcd.html#axzz3ks95OBWH

      Scary and empty, Aberdeen:D

    74. john king says:

      @ Croompenstein
      I wonder just how keen those Councillors would be to spend public money on a futile gesture if they had to pay it back when the legal challenge fails?

    75. louis.b.argyll says:

      Dave McEwan Hill says:
      5 September, 2015 at 11:32 am
      louis.b.argyll at 10.16

      Dave, you say…
      Assad is NOT the cause. Assad has massive popular support in Syria…

      You are correct indeed. The power dynamic is complicated and we should keep out of conflicts we triggered in the recent or distant past.

      The point I’m trying to make is more basic, that the Assad ‘government’
      military-
      … has actually bombed family homes…
      …actually destroyed infrastructure…
      …and actually damaged the futures of entire communities…

      He has therefore CAUSED many of his own his people to seek refuge elsewhere.

      Sure, other high profile power-struggles have made others guilty too.

      He may have also have the defence of wounded animal instinct, to do anything to survive…
      But Assad ain’t no good guy…is he?

    76. Capella says:

      @ louis.b.argyll
      Israel has illegally occupied the Golan Heights in Syria since 1967 defying numerous UN resolutions. They have built military installations on Mt Harmon and rely on the Sea of Galilee for fresh water. Assad annoys them by not accepting their occupation.

      “A deal with Syria would also involve the dismantling of Jewish settlements in the territory. An Israeli newspaper estimated in 1999 that compensation for the settlers would run to $10 billion. Public opinion in Israel appears not to favour withdrawal. Opponents say the heights are too strategically important to be returned. An opinion poll in January 2004 suggested that a majority of Israelis opposed plans to hand back the Golan to Syria.”

      http://israelipalestinian.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000507

      Much easier, and more lucrative, to arm rebels, freedom fighters and insurgents to bring Assad down.

      Pity about the children.

    77. bugsbunny says:

      Now the Unionists are moaning about the cost of the Independence Referendum costing £15.8 million. Wish they would ask about Scotland’s contribution to Trident Renewal, Hs2 etc.

      Stephen.

    78. Malky says:

      Brilliant.

    79. Lesley-Anne says:

      bugsbunny says:

      Now the Unionists are moaning about the cost of the Independence Referendum costing £15.8 million. Wish they would ask about Scotland’s contribution to Trident Renewal, Hs2 etc.

      Stephen.

      Wheesht Stephen. That is what Westminster whimsically call “off the books accounting!” If you don’t keep this under your hat then who knows what will happen … we might ALL want some “off the books accounting” type of building work being done. 😉

      In other words this is what Westminster want but can’t afford so they jiggle the already cooked till burnt to a cinder accounting books so that they can take quite a few more Billions off of us in the name of “it’s for the good of the country!” The country you should note is off course England. Nothing like this off the books accounting shite ever happens when engineering works for Scotland is involved you notice.

    80. Paula Rose says:

      Oh no ronnie anderson’s shed is no more! I spent a lovely night there – I hope you saved the Jacuzzi – heaven!

    81. Marcia says:

      Paula Rose

      My mind is working overtime. 🙂

    82. handclapping says:

      That’s a nasty suspicious mind there, Marci. However you may have met the lovely Paula Rose more often than I 😀

    83. Rock says:

      Dave McEwan Hill,

      “among other things like taking millions of Christian refugees from Iraq for instance”

      Iraq had millions of Christians?

      Or are you bullshitting?

    84. call me dave says:

      @Paula Rose

      What! You have to shed more light on that. Information deficit.

      Ronnie you’ll have to build an Anderson shelter. 🙂

    85. Croompenstein says:

      Congratulations to the England football team for qualifying for the Euro finals, however some of their fans were waving union jacks and singing God save the queen!! strange bunch…

    86. Alan Mackintosh says:

      Rock, about 1.5 million, but now down to between 200K and 400K. Their choice is run, convert, or die.

    87. bugsbunny says:

      Let them keep their Union Flags. As Winnie Ewing once said, it’s now the International Flag of Hooliganism.

      Stephen.

    88. louis.b.argyll says:

      Call me Dave, others..

      A fine mess left by the Empire…

    89. Capella says:

      Isn’t the internet a great resource. Here’s the Permanent Mission of the Syrian Arabic Republic to the UN point of view.
      https://www.un.int/syria/syria/syrian-golan

      So who is financing the rebels, including Daesh? How can an illegal terrorist organisation sell oil on the international market and move millions through the banking system unhindered?

      http://www.newsweek.com/2014/11/14/how-does-isis-fund-its-reign-terror-282607.html

    90. Fireproofjim says:

      Rock
      Iraq certainly had a lot of Christians and even some Jews under Saddam Hussein. He was a Bastard but a secular bastard. His foreign secretary was a Christian.
      Ironically, after the coalition invasion and the subsequent chaos,many Christians fled to Syria, where another secular bastard, President Assad, gave them a measure of protection until the civil war and the rise of the Moslem fanatics.
      Many have now fled to Lebanon and many are among the refugees in Turkey.

    91. NN says:

      Not sure what daft Effie is trying to prove. If 60 or 80 million communist Chinese moved to England would they be pleased at that? What does it prove in the end? The sad desperation of those in the comments section there clinging to the idea says a lot. Deeply unpleasant and damaged people, it seems. So they cling to unpleasant and damaging solutions. I’m surprised no one is countering the BS there, but with such a delusional admin in control of the comments I’d imagine it’s heavily filtered as brit nat (or brit brat) unionist places always are.

      Suggesting the destruction of a culture and dispersing of a people and attempting to destroy their history and identities is akin to the attitudes of conquerers, Nazis, the worst of the communists and other dictators. There are many quotes on attempts and plans to do exactly this sort of thing from both sides, the victims and the perpetrators of the crimes. Hardly the kind of thing that should be cast about as suggestions or solutions, but what else can you expect from the vile brit nat nutters?

    92. Croompenstein says:

      @bugsbunny – Dunno about you Stephen but I am getting really sick of the Ayrshire Post plying the anti SNP Britnat shit. On the letters page a total character assassination of Jeane Freeman by a concerned reader… the reader being Alastair Osborne.. oh yes the husband of Sandra our ex-MP… apparently the AP is now owned by the Daily Record so I won’t be buying it anymore…

    93. CameronB Brodie says:

      …Wahhabi fanatics. 😉

    94. galamcennalath says:

      bugsbunny says:

      As Winnie Ewing once said, it’s now the International Flag of Hooliganism.

      … as it has been for centuries. All over the world, peoples will have said when the see a Union flag, “Shit! The barbarians are coming!”

      The odd thing is, BritNats would still argue that their withering Empire was been a power for good in this world. Where and when do they fantasise that happened!? India? Africa? Napoleonic times? Opium Wars? Boer Wars?

      Countries invaded …
      http://www.humanosphere.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/map-where-brits-never-invaded.jpg
      … probably accurate!

    95. Rock says:

      Alan Mackintosh,

      “Rock, about 1.5 million, but now down to between 200K and 400K. Their choice is run, convert, or die.”

      So Syria didnt take “millions” of Christian refugees from Iraq as claimed by Dave McEwan Hill.

      Apart from that, the Britnat bullshitters have played a big part in inflaming the situation in the Middle East, as they did in most of the world during colonialism and slavery.

      I am deeply ashamed that Scots too played a major role in it, leaving a legacy of our elderly British nationalists who denied us a once in 300 years chance of breaking free.

      What use are the polls putting us ahead now when we missed the real opportunity a year ago?

    96. CameronB Brodie says:

      Rock
      Never give up! Never surrender!
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ2hJezvd2I

    97. The Moidart says:

      NN…. Unbelievable!! I’ve had to re-read it three times now to believe it.

      She’s actually referring to those of us whose ancestors fought at Culloden or Bannockburn forgetting about it as positive!! And the same for forgetting to speak Doric. She’s basically talking about ethnic cleansing and becoming British not Scottish.

      Absolutely disgusting she is!!!!

      As for the comments?The main antagonist is good old Aldo who was a regular on here for two days or so before suffering some kind of medical disfunction on line and being regulated by wings with his increasingly bizarre posts. His comments on it are particularly disturbing as is the whole article.

      She’s some kind of lecturer in Aberdeen university? If that is true I’m absolutely shocked that someone who can put together such vitriol can be paid to educate in a country she promotes ethnic cleansing in.

      God help us.

    98. ronnie anderson says:

      @ call me dave Anderson whit its taking me aw ma time tae make ah Tinfoil Hat.

      @ Paula Rose as if I would scrap the Jacuzzi & the Plush Footstool, that you have sat your posterior in & on, ah might put them on Ebay in the future lol.

    99. call me dave says:

      Aldo: Aye! A regular contributor most days on Scot goes Pop.

    100. Bob Mack says:

      One of the few occasions when ears are more important than the nose as a detector of shit.
      That sunflower WILL reach 60. Of that I am sure.

    101. The Moidart says:

      Call me Dave….Maybe some kind contributer will make Aldo go pop. He was full of gas anyway…..

      His comments on here were… entertaining…

      I believe he is trying to replace something that is missing through controversy. A kind of feminine Katie Hopkins if you like.

    102. snode1965 says:

      @ NN . I think that Effie wants to colonise Scotland along the lines of Ulster. She would grant lands or positions of power in return for loyalty to the crown and suppression of the natives. The fact is that we already have to suffer the Queens loyal militia marching, here in Scotland, as a show of force every summer.

    103. Lesley-Anne says:

      Well what do you know, David “I’m a coward” Cameron has been found threatening Catalonia. Is there NO country in the known universe that this dickhead will NOT make threats against?

      Apparently, according to big dim Dave, if Catalonia says YES to independence it will find itself at the back of the queue to join the European Union.

      http://news.yahoo.com/british-pm-warns-warns-catalonia-against-secession-173050593.html

      I just have one wee niggling thought here.

      What would David “I’m a coward” Cameron say to the situation of the UK voting to LEAVE the E.U. and Catalonia voting FOR independence. I foresee a “face meet palm” moment for Cameron. Still that should not be anything to worry about peeps after all he has had quite a few “face meet palm” moments these days hasn’t he? 😀

    104. Thepnr says:

      The more bullshit we are fed, the stronger we become.

      So true. Great toon Chris.

    105. Croompenstein says:

      FFS Jezeerna 2-0 up with 10 mins to go but f*in blew it Swiss 3 Slovenia 2. Keep that feeling fresh Jezeerna as you may think you are home and dry but the flower is rising….

    106. Fred says:

      A very clever cartoon! 🙂

      The annual commemoration gathering of the 1820 Scottish Resurection will take place at Sighthill Cemetery, Springburn, at 2 pm tomorrow, meet at the Springburn Road gates. The monument to the men executed is atop the hill.

    107. Tam Jardine says:

      Strange article by Effie Deans. What she seems to be saying is that it would be great to breed Scottish-ness out of Scotland by turning Scots into an ethnic minority, but it’ll never happen because it’s too shite a place to move to.

      Surely, Effie, if the government were to drop nerve gas and just eradicate the population, then the country could be settled by the overpopulated England without having to worry building houses for the 5 million incomers?

      That seems to be the logical extension of her thought process. When will this love bombing end?

    108. louis.b.argyll says:

      National ‘heads’ of state should be BANNED from interfering in the CONSTITUTIONAL affairs of other countries.

      For example, Cameron is entitled to represent his constituents.. but when he comments on Catalonia he is just one person with a view.

      MEPs however, directly elected, may represent us, and take part in party politics within Europe..

      Prime ministers and presidents should not use their enhanced media presence to twist the debate to suit outside lobbyists.

    109. Giving Goose says:

      Re NN above.

      It’s correct what you say about moderation on brit nasty sites. I was posting on united against seperation facebook page until I pointed out one truth to many. Can’t do it now.

      They’re preaching to themselves and have closed minds. Brainwashed by big britannia.

      If you look at a typical britnat poster u find irony after irony. For example one guy, ex soldier has content on his facebook page ranting against ex squaddies being thrown onto the street to live.

      He obviously cannot grasp that his dear old uk is doing the chukking in gratitude for said ex servicemen putting their lives on the line for blighty.

      But that sums up the uk. Loyalty only goes one way. Being a sheep is never brings rewards.

    110. Macart says:

      Spooky!

      Mrs M bought sunflowers today. 😮

    111. handclapping says:

      @Macart
      They’re not usual for wreaths, are they?

    112. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Rock at 6.57

      Iraq indeed had millions of Christians. Under Saddam Hussein they were safe. I knew some of them. Saddam Hussein had religious extremists “removed”.
      The Basra area was mostly Christian. There are (or were) lots of Christians, mainly Maronite but also Druze and Catholic in Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan and Syria.
      Christians were also safe under President Assad in Syria

    113. handclapping says:

      @Chris Cairns
      Thats well done. I bet you are pleased and so you should be. 🙂
      Lots of colouring in as well!

    114. Taranaich says:

      “The people least likely to vote for independence are people from the other parts of the UK. The reason for this is obvious. Who wants to vote to turn themselves into a foreigner in the land of their birth or rather to turn the land of their birth into a foreign country?”

      That, right there, is the crux of Effie’s argument. She doesn’t want to become a “foreigner.” Because being a foreigner is undesireable.

      Yet apparently it’s independence supporters who are the “nationalists.”

    115. crazycat says:

      @ Heedtracker

      Here are archived links to your Effie Deans and Ian Smart blogs respectively:

      https://archive.is/lgZPt
      https://archive.is/GT2p4

      Don’t want to give either of them extra hits.

    116. crazycat says:

      @ Croompenstein

      I gave up buying the Ayrshire Post years ago, and now only sneak a look at it in shops. For some time they’ve been good at accepting letters from Labour councillors, for instance, and not bothering to point out that that is who their correspondents are.

      @ Dave McEwen Hill

      Pedant alert – Druze are not Christians, though they have sometimes pretended to be to escape persecution, and some of their beliefs overlap with Christianity.

    117. NN says:

      “But that sums up the uk. Loyalty only goes one way. Being a sheep is never brings rewards.”

      So very true. History has only shown this to be true, including recent history.

    118. galamcennalath says:

      Taranaich says:

      apparently it’s independence supporters who are the nationalists.

      BritNats never see that their own motivation for keeping their Union as just ‘my country right or wrong’ nationalism. What else could it be?

      I rationalise this logic blindness they exhibit being because in their minds British is the default and all non-British are foreigners. They don’t see their Britain as one country among many, they see it as special and different from ordinary countries. Scary, but I do reckon they must think along those lines.

      And another thing – presumably on independence BritNats can chose to retain their rUK nationality and passports. No one will force them to give that up. If they stay in Scotland, yes, they will be foreigners here. So what? They’ll be just like all the other EU citizens with rights of movement and residency. What if rUK leaves the EU but iScotland stays in? Then there might be issues.

    119. crazycat says:

      @ Taranaich

      After studying in Edinburgh, Cambridge, Copenhagen and Nizhny Novgorod, Effie returned home to rural Aberdeenshire, where she reads Dostoevsky in Russian and finds inspiration in the works of Walter Scott.

      There must be a lot of pesky foreigners in Cambridge, Copenhagen and Nizhny Novgorod.

    120. yesindyref2 says:

      Effie Deans. Well, we know what the F stands for, I presume the E stands for eccentric?

    121. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      crazycat at 10.48

      Yes. I know Druze are not Christian. It is an amalgam of many faiths and belief systems incorporating elements of judaism. christianity, islam and eastern mysticisms.
      For the purposes of the point I was making it is not islamic

    122. Iain More says:

      re that Effie Deans nonsense. I wonder if she would be happy to have 5 plus million former Brits dumped on her, I bet she wouldn’t

      http://www.scmp.com/news/world/article/1831888/uk-officials-discussed-resettling-entire-hong-kong-population-northern?page=all

    123. Interesting article in the Observer (Guardian) in which it says –
      “Indeed, the Observer has learned that such was the lack of appetite for exploiting the rule changes that it was decided to ignore them when it came to the Scottish leadership election in December 2014. “No one noticed,” the source said. “But that election should have been done on the one-man one-vote basis with £3 supporters allowed to be involved. It was decided that it would be an embarrassment, with only about 10,000 members voting. And so the old system was used.” https://archive.is/LwDUb

    124. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi galamcennalath.

      “…because in their minds British is the default and all non-British are foreigners. They don’t see their Britain as one country among many, they see it as special and different from ordinary countries.”

      And I think you’ve summed up the situation EXACTLY! There is an inbuilt mindset, cultivated by the “British” education system, from nursery to university.

      Probably using the same compost as Hamish. Well done Chris C, BTW!

    125. Robert Peffers says:

      Aw! Come on folks! Chris isn’t daft ye ken. He knows that while a good dose of fertiliser will do great things for some plants it can kill others. Roses do great while spud will go all scabby.

      What’s bad for the English rose is good for the Scottish thistle.

      Nice one Chris I really needed a good laugh.

    126. heedtracker says:

      Effie Deans and chums are merely trying to find ways of overturning, working around, usurping Scottish democracy, much the same way old orders have always done.

      Unionists got wiped May 7 in their Scotland region, BBC etc crashed out but they’re all worse than ever now, next big rule Britannia over Scotland challenge is coming, SNPouters at the ready.

    127. Iain More says:

      crazycat says:

      @ Taranaich

      After studying in Edinburgh, Cambridge, Copenhagen and Nizhny Novgorod, Effie returned home to rural Aberdeenshire, where she reads Dostoevsky in Russian and finds inspiration in the works of Walter Scott.

      There must be a lot of pesky foreigners in Cambridge, Copenhagen and Nizhny Novgorod.

      Funny you should mention Walter Scott, was Effie Deans not a character in Heart Of Midlothian. Yet another turgid Walter Scott read that I never got to the end of. Inspiring he is not. I wonder if Effie is even her real name but then there is something unreal about Brit Nats.

      I think there is also a lot of pesky foreigners in Edinburgh but I usually call them Yahs, you know those that failed to get into Oxbridge but I think a lot of the go to St Andrews now.

    128. Paula Rose says:

      Please pass on my address to Syrian, Afghan, Iraqi or any other atheist evacuee.

    129. Robert Peffers says:

      @Yesitis says: 5 September, 2015 at 1:41 pm:

      ‘Bullshit compost’
      🙂

      “The old services saying was, “Bullshit baffles brains.”

    130. Smithie says:

      I remember when we (wife and I)went on holiday to Turkey during what was i think a football tournament (no interest)we were on our balcony watching the world go by and down to our left we saw the locals/waiters gathered around a TV and there was animated shouting.

      So long story short it was England V Turkey, so i was curious and looking over balcony and when turkey scored i was like YES// standing up with arms raised.
      This made several of the locals look up with quizzical looks as to say why was i cheering and one asked me why?.
      I said i am Scottish and a split second later he smiled and gave me the thumbs up-will never forget that moment.
      So even before that moment i have allways been Scottish and will remain so till the day i die.

    131. Smithie says:

      Should add by the way, the rest of the holiday was so much different as in the interaction with staff etc as in more relaxed and friendship. It opened my eyes.

    132. Terry says:

      The britnats are truly rattled. The 45 are now the 55. And rising. And the oil is low.

      Their lies won’t work a second time. Tick tock. Indyref 2.

      Effie? Effie? Who the Ef is effie?

    133. Paula Rose says:

      Oh btw O/T ronnie anderson you have kept that pumice stone that you entranced me with for the next Wings raffle?

    134. Smithie says:

      OK Paula Rose, own up, whats going on with you and Ronnie? and pumice stone????(diversion). Ronnie i would gladly help you get a new shed pal lol

    135. Robert Peffers says:

      @Tam Jardine says: 5 September, 2015 at 9:54 pm:

      “Surely, Effie, if the government were to drop nerve gas and just eradicate the population, then the country could be settled by the overpopulated England without having to worry building houses for the 5 million incomers?”

      You do know, Tam, that the Highlands and Uplands of Scotland comprise the biggest man-made desert in the World and now only fit to be used as shooting & fishing estates to entertain the English gentry.

      Just over 200 years ago they were forcibly removing the natives that survived to populate their colonies.

    136. manandboy says:

      Perspective:

      A three year old Syrian boy, washed up dead on a Turkish beach, has more influence on the United Kingdom in one day than the reigning monarch has in 62 years.

    137. crazycat says:

      @ Dave McEwen Hill

      Thanks for the reply, which I’ve only just been able to see.

      I thought it was worth pointing out, for the benefit of anyone reading your comment who happened not to be as well-informed as you.

    138. Paula Rose says:

      As an artist in a different discipline to Chris I take my fascinator off – the beauty of your work is so much the expositions below the line.

      To enlighten and encourage debate whilst creating a smile has uplifted us through everything.

      You are a man worth stroking xx

    139. crazycat says:

      @ Iain More at 12.09

      The wee biography of Effie appears on her “about me” page; I didn’t come up with the reference to Scott, whom I’ve never managed to read either (apart from some of the poetry).

      I’m sure it’s not her real name (unless her parents have a sense of humour, I suppose); I’m assuming she’s chosen it as a nom de plume because she does like Scott.

    140. Tackety Beets says:

      Thanks CC for Effie link above.

      I now regret bothering to read her witterings , hard to understand a fellow “fit liker” writing so much rubbish on one page. I then made the mistake of reading the feedback/comments , michty me , gaar ye boke!

      What have I missed ?

      The anti SNP is just unsupported crap. These people would do well to turn their imagination efforts into meaningful suggestions on how to make things better and forward their ideas to the party these shitforbrains folk support.

      It’s times like these that I really appreciate the sanity WOS brings to my life.

    141. robert Kerr says:

      Rewrite History.

      Nizhny Novgorod was renamed Gorki and then back after the end of Soviet times.

      Gorki was born there and was a revolutionary writer of note.

      It would behove Euphemia to read his works either in translation or the original.

    142. Tam Jardine says:

      Robert Peffers

      Indeed Robert – it is like a call for a repeat of the clearances. Politically driven ethnic cleansing.

      Or if we take Effie’s suggestion to build new towns in the Highlands, populated by English immigrants, we can look to the middle east and the Israeli settlements for similarities.

      Of course I think Effie is just a 100% genuine natural born idiot who has not the wit to think through the drivel she transmits. She is simply processing the inexorable rise of the SNP and support for independence and is clutching at obscure, impractical and insane ways to stem the flow to yes from no.

    143. Tam Jardine says:

      Robert Peffers

      Indeed Robert – it is like a call for a repeat of the clearances. Politically driven ethnic cleansing.

      Or if we take Effie’s suggestion to build new towns in the Highlands, populated by English immigrants, we can look to the middle east and the Israeli settlements for similarities.

      Of course I think Effie is just a 100% genuine natural born idiot who has not the wit to think through the drivel she transmits. She is simply processing the inexorable rise of the SNP and support for independence and is clutching at obscure, impractical and insane ways to stem the flow from to yes from no.

    144. call me dave says:

      Brewer implies that lots of ‘useful idiots’ were encouraged to take part in the YES campaign.

      He’s interviewing Riddoch in the first of a series of 4 interviews to be heard to ‘celebrate’ the anniversary of the referendum. Radio Scotland.
      She put him right on a few things.

      Riddoch still positive 🙂

      Blair Jenkins next…Hmm! Next week?

    145. louis.b.argyll says:

      Yes indeed, the Highlands were turned into a ‘wet desert’…

      So now, without the basic infrastructure of small linked communities (villages), vast swathes are now still empty.

      Old drover routes, paths and established ferry links were never allowed to evolve, into the roads and ports and physical infrastructure we have elsewhere today.

      The land is now unfeasible for small scale agriculture due to its unnecessary but still physical remoteness.

      Sad, and a direct effect of ethnic cleansing.

    146. Capella says:

      Talking of the Highlands, the next series of “Outlander” is available on Amazon Prime. It’s more specific than series one and even less likely to be broadcast! Amazon are offering a Region 2 version of Series 1 to be released on 25th September – maybe.

      The Redcoats are also called “The British” this time. Effie would be delighted with their portrayal.

    147. Finlay says:

      manandboy 01:28

      Powerful statement.

      It is very hard to measure ‘what might have been’.

      Regardless, I think that most of the influence of the royal family has been to insidiously placate and distract vast swathes of society from the true grotesque nature of the British establishment and the falsehood of the self proclaimed success of the capitalist developed world. The same can be said of the BBC and of society’s fixation and idolisation of sport.

      The danger of the creeping anaesthetisation of our people is not to be underestimated and I think that recently too many figures of the British establishment have fallen for their own lies, which is why it is so easy to see now. Case in point being David Cameron’s prolonged indifference and inaction over the refugee crises. His disconnection from humanity blinds him from instinctively choosing the only humane option and his slow realization of what a human should do serves as a window for us to gaze into his psychopathy.

      I observe the actions and reactions of establishment figures such as Cameron and Osborne and at times even the Queen and some of her family and I do not feel they are ‘human’ in the adjective sense of the word. I do not like their insincere stage performances of imitated compassion. I do not like their cold, dead, staring eyes and while watching and listening to them I feel the same unsettling sense of concealed threat I feel when someone lying to my face thinks they have sold me their spin.

      I think that on a single day a drowned child had more influence than a monarch, however, the child and many millions of children before him have given everything they have ever had to give and yet still the monarchy and the corrupted establishment endures. Comfortingly, I do believe that their days of rule are numbered and that every day ticks closer to the fact that all things must change.

    148. Brian Powell says:

      I suggested to Effie that they could set up camps around Faslane for the 5 million colonists from the South of England, but got no reply.

      Interestingly, in H J Paton’s book, The Claim of Scotland, which was serialised on Wings before the Referendum, Paton said that in the 60s it was talked about, as a serious suggestion, by the Establishment planners in London.

      It was to counter the growing Independence movement and fill up the empty spaces in the North.

      “There was talk of a Solway barrage, which appeared to mean, large stretches of SW Scotland should be annexed to England. It has been suggested the valley of the Tay and the fertile Carse of Gowrie could be turned into conurbations for the benefits of English immigrants. Even the Highlands, including the Moray Firth and the country around Stornoway. ….the most favoured parts of agricultural Scotland to be singled out to become occupied territories.”

      Paton spent ten years in the Admiralty and Foreign Office, was a political and philosophical writer. Was a delegate at the Peace Conference in 1919, a teacher at Scottish Universities and Oxford.

      Perhaps now is a good time for Wings to re-release some chapters on the economy and treatment of Sctoland.

    149. call me dave says:

      Gerry Hassan in Herald.

      https://archive.is/gNguv

      PS:
      Heard on Radio Scotland earlier.

      1.
      It was the lib dems what got the new rail link done in the borders?

      2.
      Queenie was keenie to have nessie named (in the latin style) after her BUT only if it turned out not to be a fraud.
      Her representative informed Peter Scott (the only child of Antarctic explorer Robert Falcon Scott) painter and in the sixties a nessie hunter. Later Sir peter. etc etc.

      PPS
      Lastly you can eat your cornflakes to this wee excerpt:

      Neil Oliver interview in the Independent:
      The historian and Coast presenter reveals why he can’t stand nationalists, short hair and Edinburgh Castle

      —————————————————————–
      I don’t like nationalists So my goat has been well and truly got over the past 18 months by the independence referendum. I don’t like putting new lines on maps, breaking up countries into smaller parts.

      And I don’t like people who bang the drum of their tribe, thinking that the coincidence of where they were born confers superiority on them: it’s not where you start, it’s what you do with the rest of your life that’s significant.
      —————————————————————–

      I’m away up the east Fife coast hunting for Mr Oliver it’s a braw warm day and ‘useful idiots’ like me need to be engaged.

    150. Nana Smith says:

      O/T links

      http://www.businessinsider.com/r-bp-says-taking-more-oil-from-iraq-as-payment-2015-4?IR=T

      http://www.thebcgroup.co.uk/austerity.pdf

      I tried a few times to post a link to radicalsoapbox.com but for some reason it is rejected. May be due to the scrolling news bar on their pages.

      There is a good article on neo liberalism by Mike Gold.

    151. Ken500 says:

      Nicola telling Murnaghan

    152. Dorothy Devine says:

      Call me Dave , I read that weasely piece in the independent – what an arrogant wee man he appears to be – self serving ,self interested.

      Always thought he had a high opinion of himself and that cretinous piece just confirmed it.

      It might just be me , but I have begun to think that newspaper articles are being written by third year kids at local comprehensives.

      Strike that ! The kids would do a better ,more honest job.

    153. Tackety Beets says:

      Call me Dave
      Not heard the Brewer/ Lesley R yet but look forward to it.

      Blair Jenkins next week will either be a flop or give us all a surprise.

      I have seen him on a few matters recently and I thought he was a bit more assertive etc .
      I’d like to think, with the shackles of the YES taken off ,as an individual Blair does have the “guts” that we have and shows it in next weeks broadcast.

      I’m sorry to say Brewer is a bit of shit as his personal view oooosses out from him. The word ” Plook” comes to mind.

    154. Dr Jim says:

      Isn’t it funny how when the people get together to protest their point, if you’re only a few hundred, you’re seen by the established powers that be as mild “Amusement”, but if you’re a few thousand you become a “Mob”, many thousands, and you’re a “Movement”

      We have a chance coming up shortly to be a new Adjective

      I wonder what they’re going to call us (let’s fill Glasgow up)

    155. Capella says:

      @ Nana
      That article on fibre optic broadband is infuriating. How useless neo-liberalism is. Some countries, such as France, Switzerland and Scandinavian countries like Finland, didn’t know it wasn’t ideologically correct to roll out fibre optic country-wide. They now suffer from super fast broadband everywhere.

      Like any child could have told the Thatcher ideologues, there is no point in being the only person with a phone!

      BTW the time delay in page refresh earlier was an hour.

    156. Fred says:

      Ian Bell’s article on Cameron in the Nash is first class, as for BBC luvvy Neil Oliver, he’s exactly the kind of jessie whose faither used to send to the army to see if they could make something of him. Has he ever had a proper job one asks ones-self?

    157. Andrew McLean says:

      Nana Smith

      Thanks for the link, I am on a self imposed boycot of ukok bulshitt, due to the fact ” if you lye with dogs you get fleas” but the realisation that the great witch thatcher is the reason I can’t get a decent broadband, just puts the tin lid on my absolute hatred of that vile woman, and the party she led!

    158. The Moidart says:

      Relax people. It seems that Frau Effies blog was just an experiment. She says so herself so it has to be true.

      I think the purpose of the experiment was to say something detrimental to the 55 per cent of the population who desire independence from the insane carnival that is the UK and to highlight any reaction as SNP bad.

      With her little Igor Aldo aiding and abetting of course.

      Seems Frau Effie is not the ultra right wing ethnic cleansing believing psychopath she endorses after all.

      Thanks Effie for that wonderfully engaging, compassionate and heart rending “experiment”. Perhaps you can add it to your CV??I think there’s a vacancy at Dr Moreaus island…..

    159. Nana Smith says:

      Amazing what one will do and say for their bbc masters, especially when your bbc wage is so much better than that of an archaelology teacher.

      I went looking for an article written about Oliver’s mutterings re indyref but could’nt find it, think it was written by a real scottish historian. Anyhow here’s two I did find.

      https://mightdriftaway.wordpress.com/2011/07/21/neil-oliver-scotlands-answer-to-marmite/

      https://tenthmedieval.wordpress.com/2008/11/27/scots-lies-and-videotape-historians-argue-while-neil-oliver-makes-up-scotlands-history/

    160. galamcennalath says:

      call me dave says:

      Neil Oliver interview in the Independent:
      “I don’t like nationalists So my goat has been well and truly got over the past 18 months by the independence referendum. I don’t like putting new lines on maps…”

      Another one who can’t see his Unionism and British Nationalism. It is really really pissing me off just now.

      The acid test for these people is, “So that means you are keen on dissolution of WM, transfer of all powers to the EU, no borders within the EU, and we all carry EU passports?”

      Of course, few of them want that!

      Their precious United Kingdom is sacrosanct, and if that isn’t nationalism, what is?

    161. Fred says:

      Front page in today’s Mail, £3 million pauchled by Nicola Sturgeon, so SNP baaaaaad yet again. Disnae buy it tae find oot of course.

    162. Kipper an chips says:

      Neil Oliver doesn’t like Scotland striving to get a better future, thinks we’re better off tied to the past.

    163. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Seriously confused and ill informed piece by Macwhirter in today’s Sunday Herald. Describes Kezia as Labour’s “popular new leader”.

      Dies Iain live in Scotland? Or another planet?

      Deeply moving report of the refugee crises by many contributors dominates the paper however and Ian Bell is awesome

    164. Nana Smith says:

      Posted links earlier this morning, no show. So trying this one again

      http://www.thebcgroup.co.uk/austerity.pdf

    165. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Nana Smith Like Alan Tittymarsh presenting a programme on the River Tay ( most of the water in Scotland flows into the Tay)&

      (the rock formation of a Ridge in Nth Yorkshire was formed by the deposits of the River Tay). Those programmes are not for the thinking Man/Woman.

      I know where Oliver & Tittymarsh should be deposited. Tittymarsh has a Big Heap of it in his garden MANURE.

    166. Why do the Auto Cue historians like Oliver have to have a `thing` like his school satchel or big scarves (the Keffiyeh seems popular),umbrellas, silly hats ,every one of them has some peculiar accessory attached to them.

      I think the wardrobe dept of the BBC are taking the piss out of these pretentious popinjays.

    167. Macart says:

      @Nana

      Then Mr Oliver, like so many of the so called thinkers, historians, social commentators, missed the point entirely. Who knew?

      Its not about saying ‘better than’ or ‘superior to’, but to be able to say ‘as good as’. His paid for view of ‘nationalism’ is as staid, archaic and entrenched in sound bite as any red top hack.

      As for borders? Scotland’s border isn’t new, its kinda been around for quite a while, defined and documented. You’d think a well read fella would know that? But apparently not.

    168. Robert Peffers says:

      Iain More says: 6 September, 2015 at 12:09 am:
      ” … Funny you should mention Walter Scott, was Effie Deans not a character in Heart Of Midlothian”

      Effie Deans was indeed a character in the novel, “Heart of Midlothian”, (which is a reference the site of the old Tolbooth prison in old Edinburgh).

      The story is set in a period known as, “The Porteous Riots”. In 1736, a riot broke out in the capital over the execution of two smugglers. Captain of the City Guards, John Porteous, ordered the soldiers to fire into the crowd, killing several people. Porteous was lynched by the mob who stormed the Old Tolbooth.

      Scott’s dwells on the gruesome details of the killing. The actual historic date of the lynching was just before midnight on 7 September 1736.

      A secondary, and main, part of the story concerned a reputed real character that Scott claimed to have received information about in an unsigned letter. This claimed real character was, “Helen Walker”, who travelled to London on foot to get a royal pardon for her sister, who was unjustly charged with infanticide.

      Scott puts the fictional Effie Deans’ sister, “Jeanie Deans”, in the place of Helen Walker. Effie thus being the sister who was accused of the infanticide of her own child.

      Scott portrays Jeanie Deans as a young woman who comes from a devout Presbyterian family. Jeanie goes to London, on foot, hoping to achieve an audience with the Queen through the influence of the Duke of Argyll.

      The dialogue of the story, first published in four volumes on 25 July 1818, titled, “Tales of My Landlord, 2nd series”, and under the pseudonym of, “Jedediah Cleishbotham, Schoolmaster and Parish-clerk of Gandercleugh”, was later published as part of the Waverly novels.

      Much of the dialogue of the novel is written in, “Wir Ain Lallan’s Leid”. Actually the better known character is Jeanie Deans who has had several things named after her including a once very popular Edinburgh pub.

      Sae noo ye aa ken.

    169. Onwards says:

      @The Moidart

      For nutters like that, the idea of moving 5 million English people to Scotland to wipe out Scottish identity is less of a “thought experiment” and more of a wet dream.

      Of course if her desire is really to make ‘ideas like nationalism seem quaint’ then she will no doubt be in favour of the whole UK absorbing millions of ‘foreign’ migrants and refugees.

    170. steveasaneilean says:

      Sadly Mr Oliver draws another cartoon version of the Yes movement. He is of course entitled to his opinion even if it does reflect the Establishment he is now part of.

      But I don’t recognise his description in the meetings I spoke at or went to nor in the people I engaged with throughout (and still engaging with today).

      For an academic he paints a very simplistic version of Yes – I am not sure in the long run that history will agree with him.

    171. galamcennalath says:

      Macart says:

      Oliver …. Its not about saying ‘better than’ or ‘superior to’

      Thing is, that way of thinking is, and always was, at the centre of British nationalism.

      Your differentiation is a good one … ‘We are better, we are special’ nationalism versus ‘we are as good as, and want to be like everyone else’ nationalism.

    172. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Smithie 1.02am Thanks for the offer Smithie but two of my Sons work in the Garage/Shed/Fencing trade, anyhow I have nothing to store these days.

      Anything Paula Rose & any of her many admirers get up to is never discussed on the main thread, (the juicy bits are on O/T),but not all. The Lady has to maintain some dignity & decorum.

      @ Paula Rose I still have the Pumice Stone, but you need to put your autograph on it.

    173. The Moidart says:

      Macart… Well said fella!

      There’s a great comment left after the original article tearing Oliver to shreds.

      BBC new programming schedule for the Autumn… Oliver Twists

      Running every Sunday at teatime in BBC North Britain for eternity..

      Dribble along as loud,crazed, dead eyed and rugged archaeologist pays homage to his imperial masters by twisting the facts around Scottish history and ignoring any he doesn’t twist.

      Again.

    174. starlaw says:

      Neil Oliver .. Marmite historian description fits him well.
      I have noticed during run up and since the referendum his tales have been nearly true but not quite. EG his programme on the Battle of Bannockburn made no ref. to the other army who arrived at a vital time in the battle , some call them the camp followers others describe them as a Highland army, either way they swung the battle.
      I cant be bothered with his programmes now.

    175. The Moidart says:

      Onwards..

      If she was serious about 5 million people from England to Scotland?

      The answer is simple.

      She moves to England first.

      I’d certainly rather have five million of anyone moving to share and appreciate our wonderful and unique history and culture than that undeserving excuse for a Scot!! And the clowns agreeing with her little “experiment”

      Beyond contempt.

    176. Robert Peffers says:

      @Tam Jardine says: 6 September, 2015 at 8:58 am:

      ” … Of course I think Effie is just a 100% genuine natural born idiot who has not the wit to think through the drivel she transmits.”

      Effie is just following the party line, Tam. Just before I read your reply I had heard the news on the Radio and the thought crossed my mind how the Establishment at Westminster is like the lunatics running the asylum.

      They have caused big problems mainly by their bombing of Middle Eastern countries and from the on-going troubles in such places as Syria resulting from those bombings.

      So until greasy Cameron was shamed into a grudging offer of the UK taking some of the refugees, they had been previously calling illegal immigrants, (and the death of just one of the many wee innocents who have died), they were proposing to debate the matter in Parliament.

      So what was it they were proposing to debate? To bomb Syria. Lunacy doesn’t begin to describe these numpties.

    177. Nana Smith says:

      @Ronnie

      I can smell the bbc shillshit wafting along on the breeze. Thank goodness I have not watched or listened to either of these presenters or should that be pretenders!

      @Macart I have a name for Mr Oliver but being a polite wee cailleach I’d best not repeat it here.

      I don’t understand the proud scots spouting their pish. If they are so disdainful of their homeland why not take a hike over the border and find employment there.

      Of course we know why they don’t. They are only useful idiots for the propaganda machine in Scotland.

    178. Democracy Reborn says:

      @Macart and Others

      It’s no irony to the Britnat-deniers that ‘Britain’ is prefixed with ‘Great’ (“but hey, we don’t think we’re superior…”).

      Re Neil Oliver’s piece in the Independent : “I don’t like nationalists…. I don’t like putting new lines on maps, breaking up countries into smaller parts.”

      The fatuous, tortured logic of Oliver and his ilk never ceases to amaze me. By that reasoning, Ireland should still be part of the UK. Oliver will no doubt be an unequivocal supporter of Irish unification. Norway should still be part of Sweden. Slovakia should still be part of Czechoslovakia. Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania and the the other East European republics that gained their independence in the 90s should still be part of the USSR.

    179. Brian Powell says:

      Nana Smith.

      Reading the articles about N Oliver and Scottish History, it is useful, when commentators wonder why was this person asked to present a programme when their expertise lies elsewhere, to look to two other criteria; is the programme maker the BBC, and is the presenter chosen a hardline Unionist.

    180. thomaspotter2014 says:

      Whilst I accept that the photo of the wee drowned bairn,Alan Kurdi,has been the catalyst for a groundbreaking focus on the deadly nature of sea crossings to Europe.

      I’m not able to accept the concensus that it’s only unacceptable for children to drown but somehow less horrific if you’re a drowned adult.

      All of these people need help and they need it now.

    181. heedtracker says:

      There’s not to much to moan about in UKOK news today, as there’s nothing really about their Scotland region of any UKOK interest, but anti establishment Sunday times poops all over Scottish democracy, grovels very UKOK hard to oldest queen ever, because Rupert is so anti establishment, Charles Kennedy was nice but drank too much, there’s a giant 4 page Visit Scotland.com ad in Sunday times, focusing on fashion and they have SLabour Lord MacConell in completely black kilted outfit but nothing about all new Lady Mone, usually seen bearing her crotch and wrapped in a giant Union Jack.

      Rancid The Graun says Tiree is nice but a giant UKOK secret too, so there, and the great Effiedeans says he/she was setting a big UKOK trap with her latest blog on moving 5 million volke from England to his/her Scotland, which would really sort out things up here.

      Another day in teamGB media farts along. ST have massive Fredrick Forsyth thing, he’s as bad as JK Rowling but he says “the thing about journalists is that they lie well. It comes from practice.” TeamGB does produce historically awful BBC grade liars but do they really lie well Scotland? Come back in 5 years, teamGB meeja creep show.

    182. Onwards says:

      “I’d certainly rather have five million of anyone moving to share and appreciate our wonderful and unique history and culture..”

      Of course, for her plan to work there would have to be a swift transfer. Slowly over time..that might allow too many English folks to ‘go native’, and actually start to prefer this part of the world running its own affairs.

      I notice some of her commentators want to send the bulk of the refugees to Scotland and figure they would be loyal to the UK for saving them.. I suspect that might backfire as they found out which government really welcomed them.

    183. Robert Peffers says:

      @louis.b.argyll says: 6 September, 2015 at 9:53 am:

      ” … Yes indeed, the Highlands were turned into a ‘wet desert’”.

      The natural Scottish ecology was, “The Great Caledonian Forest”. Stone Age Britons were a mixture of Hunter Gatherers and Early Farmers who began clearing forest to create arable land.

      By the time of the Scottish/English wars of independence the Southern Uplands and Highlands supported large populations and there were still many forested areas.

      Today a hike up a typical Highland Glen will reveal many signs of human habitation. Old ruins and the tell tale clumps of stinging nettles among the now typical ling and bracken.

      Every clump of stinging nettles marks the site of a former habitation. This is the mark of nitrogen rich soil and that nitrogen came from the use of middens for the disposal of waste food plus human & domestic animal dung.

      Those glens were once good farmland. The latter assaults upon the Great Caledonian Forests came from the cutting of timber to build wooden hulled ships for the British Navy and to produce charcoal for iron smelting.

      It ended with the clearance of humans to make way for sheep and it was not confined to the Highlands and Uplands. In the Lowlands the Government brought in the Vagrancy Acts and when the mainly agricultural workers, whose homes were tied to being fee’d on to a farm or estate, were not taken on they were workless and homeless.

      The Vagrancy Acts had them arrested for having, “No visible means of support”, and sentenced them to either the work-house, Poor-house or transportation to the colonies.

      The sheep were imported in the workers or clans people’s place and the sheep began to eat the land into the barren wasteland we see today. This also allowed the deer population to increase and this was encouraged by the creation of game estates for the rich few.

      There isn’t an inch of the present Highland landscape that was not a man made wasteland in order to subdue the Scots.

    184. Dr Jim says:

      I did history at school before Scotland existed so I’m pleased to hear Mr Olivers interpretation of what others have written before him who weren’t around at that time either (considering most ordinary folk couldn’t write so those who could probably had the wherewithal and position to say what was required by the folk who employed them to scribe)

      The Oliver time machine by which he transports himself backwards and forwards through time must be a singularly magnificent construction to enable him to speak directly to all protagonists and important persons of the day

      I’m getting a Francie and Josie moment here when I say
      For to glean and correlate all this information that he gets for us to enjoy our wee glimpse into times gone by
      does it not have to be substantiated by facts and not just Wee Man Olivers Opinion

      If it really only comes down to Wee Man Olivers opinion
      Then this Wee Man says

      Away and don’t talk Shite and Dinnae annoy us

    185. galamcennalath says:

      This whole way of viewing nationalism as being either superiority or equality driven is an interesting and I’m sure valid one.

      Think of historical precedents and you see peoples of both groups usually at odds.

      Empires have at their core the quest for more land, more resources. Tied into this is the notion that their superiority gives them the right to rule over others. Spain, Britain, USA, Germany, Japan … without going into ancient history. Rampant nationalism.

      Then small units of people who identified themselves by culture, religion and/or language who were/are typically part of those empires. Their struggles for freedom driven by the other side of nationalism.

      Like so many other human abstract ideas, nationalism manifests itself as good or evil. Those on both sides seem to be able to look at the other and see evil!

    186. Dr Jim says:

      Wee shout out for “Gondwanaland” bring it back I say
      and send Wee Man Oliver to research it’s history
      I bet he’d come up with something

    187. Grouse Beater says:

      Neil Oliver’s piece in the Independent : “I don’t like nationalists…. I don’t like putting new lines on maps, breaking up countries into smaller parts.”

      Ah, our local historian who travels wild cliff edges, long hair flying in the breeze, alone but for a camera crew, Range Rover, has finally come out.

      His mother will now know her suspicions are confirmed. Her wee lad with a satchel full of sandwiches she made, has been taking BBC and the Open University’s shilling and is now wholly owned by them.

    188. louis.b.argyll says:

      Robert,
      And all that remains of the ancient highlands networks are a few bothies and brochs.

      High up at Glen Affric, only 20 miles or so from Inverness, it’s as though civilisation suddenly comes to an end.

    189. heedtracker says:

      I was really sad to see Jamie Oliver put the boot in to Scotland running Scotland but iits actually that BBC vote Slab Scotland git Neil Oliver. Oliver’s fully aware that the harder he monsters Scottish democracy, the more BBC work he gets. So decades of UKOK work for Neil, or maybe 5 years tops.

      My employers seemed fine with the referendum, until that last 2 weeks of a maybe YES win and we were all told if it is independence, you’re all sacked/relocated. English nationalism is an extremely powerful driver in its control over its territories. England does not want to rule Britannia from Lands End to Carlisle.

    190. Grouse Beater says:

      And here is dear Neil’s spiel in full:

      “I don’t like nationalists. So my goat has been well and truly got over the past 18 months by the independence referendum. I don’t like putting new lines on maps, breaking up countries into smaller parts. And I don’t like people who bang the drum of their tribe, thinking that the coincidence of where they were born confers superiority on them: it’s not where you start, it’s what you do with the rest of your life that’s significant.”

      Aye, and that last line is the only one that matters – it means ensuring your nation regains its sovereignty plus full democratic rights, and does not remain subservient to its neighbour.

      Oh, and Neil, did you notice the Independent introduces you as a “Scottish” archaeologist and historian? Not ‘British’ or ‘international’, but Scottish.

      Oh dear, you renounce your birth-right. Historian? Time for a new career.

    191. K1 says:

      Oliver’s a prat.

    192. The Moidart says:

      Onwards..

      I’m no expert on opinions of everyone in the Middle East of course. But I’d put money on it being the case that many of these unfortunate soul’s opinion of The UK is already made up.

      With what it represents and who it is owned and ruled by and also by the impact of its foreign policy causing the effects of the disgraceful crisis they are suffering right now.

      Unfortunately these people live and die with the consequences of atrocities delivered by the disgrace that represents our government everyday. They aren’t corrupted by the MSM and BBC and it’s brainwashing tactics from the moment they open their eyes and can see straight through the carnival of fools that represents the establishment of “Great” Britain today. Well, most of it anyway.

    193. Onwards says:

      Grouse Beater says:

      6 September, 2015 at 1:36 pm

      “Ah, our local historian who travels wild cliff edges, long hair flying in the breeze, alone but for a camera crew, Range Rover, has finally come out. ”

      He ‘came out’ for British nationalism before the referendum. He had a ‘Vote No’ piece in the papers ranting about Scots leading the British empire, and saying “We go as a United Kingdom or we don’t go at all”

      Professor Tom Devine is widely seen as a far more substantive historian, and tends to see the big picture and the shifts over time.

      At one point there was a case for the union, but the empire has long gone, and the UK has focused on London, with Scotland falling behind other similar countries.

      Nowadays it is mostly a sense of British nationalism holding an unequal union together, and that is reflected strongest in older pensioners and BBC presenters.

    194. CameronB Brodie says:

      That is such a poorly constructed web site that I linked to above. This if those who may want to inform their opinion on what ‘nationalism’ is. Further reading may inform their interpretation of contemporary Scotland.

      http://www.nationalismproject.org/what.htm

    195. Dandy Dons 1903 says:

      Here is a better idea how about we deport Effie Deans/ALDO/Neil Oliver etc down to England? Im sure the English/British will love them, quaint colonial arselickers you know!

    196. Nana Smith says:

      I do hope this debate will be televised.

      http://www.snp.org/media-centre/news/2015/sep/salmond-cameron-faces-humiliating-debate

      Chunky Mark

      Let’s Bomb Syria.. Worlds largest Arms Fair!!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLPsnz-w_bM

    197. notallusenglishareeejits says:

      Bullshit Monkeys of Wankminster + Bullshit Organ Grinders of Washington = more Sunflowers than a Van Gogh exhibition.

    198. Grouse Beater says:

      Onwards: Professor Tom Devine

      Obviously I missed Oliver’s earlier confession. I’ve never accepted him as an historian per se. After catching a few programmes I saw him as a cod historian, without insight or revelation to offer. He conveys superficial enthusiasm for his subject. That and a silly walk.

      Devine is on a wholly different level.

    199. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry…. This is for those who may want to inform their opinion….

    200. yesindyref2 says:

      Psychoanalysing Neil Oliver is surely very easy. He passionately despises anything that has passion, shows passion, or has its roots in passion. I’m serious, by the way.

    201. heedtracker says:

      http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0904/725613-geldof/

      BetterTogether Sir Bob actually speaks to Irish vile sepratists. Oldest ever queen in teamGB history, follows BetterTogether Bob example and offers her 12 UKOK palaces to refugees/immigrants, if you’re a toryboy at the Sunday Times.

      Which UKOK whopper is true.

    202. ronnie anderson says:

      @ yesindyref2 So Neil Olivers favourite fruits no passion fruit them,to many seeds,with the potential to grow. Keep that British Bullshit well away from them. It would spoil the flavour.

    203. thomas says:

      @heedtracker

      Well Maggie Thatcher did once say about sir bob that “he made her proud of british youth”!!!during the band aid days.

      Thats despite him being dublin born and bred .

      I think Thatcher had it right first time.

      What happens in countries like scotland and ireland to produce self haters like this???

    204. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Robert Peffers at 12.06

      And a fine Clyde paddle steamer, the much older brother of the present “Waverley” and by all accounts a much better built boat.
      Many people felt that the wrong boat was saved.
      The “Waverley” was much more modern looking than the “Jeanie Deans” but being built immediately after WW2 was of inferior construction.

    205. YesMeansYes says:

      By stating his hatred of “nationalists” while failing to take account of his own British nationalism, Oliver is plainly a hypocrite. This not a new nor is it an unusual failing among “Opinion formers”. Large elements of both the Scottish and British class who either support Scottish independence or wish to maintain the United Kingdom are falling over each other to proclaim that they are not Nationalists.

      This is simply self-delusion. We are in the middle of what is plainly a nationalist argument between the continued existence of the UK and the emergence of an independent Scotland. If you have a dog in this fight you are a nationalist.

      Oliver is not only deluding himself by ignoring his own nationalism. He also exposes himself as a second rate academic by stating he does not like nationalists. Any respected academic critique targets an argument not those making the argument.

      If you hate socialism, nationalism and Islam you can make a case that you are a philosopher but if you hate socialists, nationalists and Muslims you are nothing more than a bigot.

    206. Dandy Dons 1903 says:

      The Irish have a term for the likes of Geldof/Bono/Wogan and that is West Brit, they are spot on i think!

    207. Kevin Evans says:

      You can tell an election is on its way – whenever one is coming out comes effie

    208. turnbul drier says:

      All this Oliver stuff reminded me of this price of brilliance

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=afRE3RwLwaE

    209. CameronB Brodie says:

      thomas
      I would suggest Mr. Oliver appears to display an egocentric world view, which blinds and separates him from the uniquely Scottish Scottishness of the Scottish umwelt, as distinct from the British umwelt, or, indeed, the European umwelt.

      This and other reasons is why Effie Deans is Effie Deans. Exactly why you don’t call a plumber to fix your wiring. Stick to your field of expertise, Mr. Oliver.

      I might have found a new vehicle. 🙂

    210. call me dave says:

      Well I had a nice trip in and out of the harbour places along the East Nuek in Fife today. Never saw Mr Oliver but on my return I found a link to the Nessie and Betty reference I heard on the radio this morning.

      I was on a Nessie spotting holiday a few times in my younger days and had a wee chat to Mr Dinsdale (famous film of the monster) as I was looking at the old grave stones on the East side of the Loch. He seemed a nice man and I bumped into him by accident so to speak.

      Anyhoo!

      https://archive.is/8Mf5F

    211. Robert Peffers says:

      @starlaw says: 6 September, 2015 at 12:30 pm

      “Neil Oliver .. Marmite historian description fits him well.

      Far as I know, starlaw, Oliver has no formal history degrees. He is no more than a presenter and an archaeologist. While archaeology is allied to historian the two are not quite the same thing. Not only that but both are dependent upon the historian or archaeologist having to interpret the facts from the physical evidence obtained.

      In so many cases the, (historian in particular), blindly parrots what they have been taught by others. For example how many historians still claim that 1603 was, “The Union of the Crowns”, when all evidence proves beyond doubts that it most certainly was not. If there had been a Union of the Crowns in 1603 then why was there a need for a Treaty of Union in 1706/7?

      If there had been a Union of the crowns in 1603 and the three country Kingdom of England then deposed the Unions monarchy why did we have a Scottish vs English war from 1688 until 1745 even after the Treaty of Union was signed in 1706/7?

      See what I mean about interpretation? The claimed history doesn’t fit the facts. Then we have archaeology – even now they claim the Scots came from Ireland yet archaeological artefacts now being uncovered on islands and sea stacks off the coast of Scotland predate those found on mainland Ireland. This suggests that the travel was in the other direction.

      The much more likely truth is that as at that period in history mainland Scotland was covered in the dense Great Caledonian Forest. The superhighways of the day were the sea and waterways.

      There is less than 25 miles between Ireland and Scotland and most archaeological evidence found from that period has come from costal areas and often from large middens composed of mainly sea shells. Indicating the hunter gatherers were to a large part also fishers. A little common sense would indicate these tribes would be living near the sea shores and on both sides of the Irish Sea.

      So just what is the real evidence that the Scots were from Ireland? There have been may more recent discoveries made that have turned taught history upon its head with real scientific evidence.

    212. msean says:

      Moving a population of people to another location sounds like stalinism to me. That sort of thing never ends well and sounds divisive, a thing those who favour overbearing dictatorships might think up. Not a good idea.

    213. snode1965 says:

      Starlaw @ 12.16,
      Regarding battle of Bannockburn and the mysterious knights who intervened at the crucial moment.
      In 1307 the Knights Templars were outlawed by the Catholic church. They were the most powerful financial and military unit in Europe. The skint French king conspired with the pope to gain their wealth. The leaders were burnt at the stake ( Friday the thirteenth ) but many Knights and the treasure disappeared.
      The Knights had to find a safe haven in Europe.
      In 1306 King Robert the Bruce had been excommunicated by the pope over the murder of Comwyn, placing Scotland out of papal jurisdiction.
      The Templars had a mighty naval fleet and were well used to trading routes around the known world.
      If you know where to look you can still find Templar style graves along the north west coast of Scotland, i have seen them myself.
      So you have to ask yourself what kind of intervention on the battlefield that day,could strike enough terror into Edwards mighty army and make them turn and flee. The holy warrior Knights Templar, the most elite military fighting unit in all Christendom…. Possibly.

    214. Robert Peffers says:

      @Grouse Beater says: 6 September, 2015 at 1:56 pm

      ““I don’t like nationalists. So my goat has been well and truly got over the past 18 months by the independence referendum. I don’t like putting new lines on maps, breaking up countries into smaller parts …”

      If Oliver was a fraction as clever, as he imagines himself to be, he would be aware that the Scottish independence movement has no aims to draw lines upon the map.

      The numptie also refers to breaking up countries but, if Oliver had been a real historian, he would be aware the United Kingdom is a Kingdom but has never, in recorded history, ever been a country.

      As a historian his wee list of pet hates contains several historical errors of fact. All, I’m sure, in line with his employers propaganda line.

    215. Edward I not only took the Stone of Scone or Jacobs pillow from Scotland he also took cart loads of documents, paintings ,ancient manuscripts,treaties,books,coins and all manner of Scottish artifacts.

      What Edward did not take Cromwell took when he invaded in 1650.

      They were supposed to be returned to Scotland but the ship they were being transported on (The Elizabeth) was mysteriously sunk.

      The true history of our country from pre Roman times up until the late 13th century lies at the bottom of the North Sea.

    216. CameronB Brodie says:

      I would think it fair to say that the Union is Scotland’s “Wicked Problem”. What do you think, Mr. Oliver?
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicked_problem

      We need a body capable of creating a Marketing Plan to sell ‘modernisation’.

      Disjointed incrementalism is not the most satisfactory substitute but to paraphrase Carl von Clausewitz, all thing will not be apparent, so all you can do, having a sound footing in reality, is to use your best judgment and grab hud of your cajones.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism,_Socialism_and_Democracy

    217. heedtracker says:

      Why cant they be nice lefties, like Tristram? whines The Graun, giving their Scotland a wee mention

      https://archive.is/uSbNS

      “Closer to home, the rise at Labour’s expense of the Scottish Nationalists ought also to have sounded alarms. “Scotland should have told us about the power of emotion and identity in politics,” admits one member of the shadow cabinet.”

      SLabour’s total wipe out May 7 an emotion and identity? Hope JC wins and clears out red tory Scotland but then all they’ll have left is ukok neo fascists, BBC etc and Duncan Hothersall.

    218. Gary45% says:

      Neil Oliver, is that yon tit wi the hair?
      If banny faws hates nationalists then he must hate the whole of the UK.
      I wouldn’t expect anything else from this nobody, he works for the EBC after all.
      When independence comes( and it will) all the troughers will be begging to live in Scotland.
      Oliver and his like can GTF.
      If you still pay the TV licence you are paying this plamphs wages. “set yourselves free”

    219. CameronB Brodie says:

      heedtracker
      Why single out Hothersall from “ukok neo fascists”?

    220. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry, “segregate” would have been better verb.

    221. Macart says:

      @galamcennalath and others

      You can get really fed up of bought and paid for ‘commentators’, ‘historians’, ‘experts’ and metrocentric chattering couch pundits/potatoes pigeonholing a movement they simply haven’t clue one about.

      In point of fact they have no intention of finding out about that movement either. They hang their hat on a word they think they know something about and go into spasm whilst kneejerking their way through what they believe to be a considered opinion.

      Frankly I’m fair sick of having such ‘people’ tell me who I’m supposed to be.

    222. Cadogan Enright says:

      Oliver ruined the potentially excellent programme ‘Coast’ by repeated references to some place called the ‘British Isles’

      This place supposedly includes Ireland and its islands

      No where to be found on my atlas

      The BBC Maybe the last organisation to allow its lackeys to use the correct term of Britain and Ireland or (if you must) British Isles and Ireland

      Even the rugby Lions have dropped their racist naming shit years ago

    223. For the avoidance of doubt, Neil Oliver is not a professional historian. He’s a TV presenter who studied archaeology to undergrad level. The piffle he spouts is scripted for him by researchers at the beeb (who may or may not have in-depth knowledge of history, as the case me be).

    224. heedtracker says:

      CameronB Brodie says:
      6 September, 2015 at 5:41 pm
      heedtracker
      Why single out Hothersall from “ukok neo fascists”?

      because old Dunc’s just another chancer/contrarian. The silly sausage would fight with his shadow.

    225. “Marmite historian fits him well” … Something else that leaves broon stains fits him better. Clue: it feeds sunflowers.

    226. ALANM says:

      I’ve always taken the view that Oliver was just another of those token Scots which the BBC in London like to employ from time to time simply to demonstrate just how “Great” and how “British” they are. They conveniently appear to have forgotten all about the days when Scots were only ever employed if they needed someone to play the role of a drunk in shows like Z-Cars or The Likely Lads.

      Anyway, back to Oliver. After having been awarded a high profile role despite his contrived, over-the-top accent and extremely irritating presentational style it comes as no surprise to me that he’s decided to go public with anti-independence sentiments designed to appeal to his bosses and keep him in his well paid job for a few more years.

    227. galamcennalath says:

      Scunterbunnet says:

      For the avoidance of doubt, Neil Oliver is not a professional historian. He’s a TV presenter

      Indeed. The enemies of Scottish democracy however use him, and his kind, as figures of authority. When they spout their BritNat nonsense, as no doubt they are contractually obliged to do, some people will believe them. That gullible group is shrinking fast, thank heavens.

      You are right. We are getting all het up about someone who isn’t for real!

    228. Nana Smith says:

      I’m not so convinced Oliver is a hard line unionist. I rather think of him as being in the ‘what’s in it for me’ clique like Mone and Darling.

      These sorts don’t care about their country or the folk who live in it. Selfish to the marrow and vain with it.

      Doubt he cares much about abuse victims either. Aye Mr Oliver better together we most certainly are not….

      Taxpayers hand £150,000 to leaders of VIP child sex abuse inquiry that collapsed after 7 months

      https://archive.is/0UYYL

    229. Gary45% says:

      Scunterbunnet@5.56
      “Oliver not a professional historian.”
      This seems to be a common trait with the EBC.
      Eleanor Bradford !!!! (please correct me if I am wrong)
      I don’t think she is a medic of any sort. and the list goes on.
      So long as you are prepared to pucker up and kiss the ar*e of the establishment, the world is your oyster in this pathetic Island.
      Scotland has to break free from the London “Blinky Blimey Mate what’s in it for me” ideal.
      Parts of the south are starting to realise this also.

    230. yesindyref2 says:

      Neil Oliver was on a panel on some program before the Ref, and plainly showed his anti feelings on Independence. So it’s nothing new, he’s being trotted out again after the latest poll shows 55% YES excluding DKs.

      Perfectly honest I have no idea who this Effie Deans is, never seen or heard of her before this thread. It seems I’m lucky. Is she some kind of minor political turnkey?

    231. Papadox says:

      I remember a year or so back listening to EBC radio Scotlandshire disgussing so called experts available to the EBC. There were several volumes with thousands of names in them by subject. The person being interviewed explained that he tried to get one of these experts for one of his programs. When he contacted the “expert” he was asked “do you want me to be for or against” says it all really?

      Think they must have found Mr Oliver in the “pool”

    232. Grouse_Beater says:

      I have an abiding image of a crew member walking backwards from Oliver while carrying a wind machine so that Oliver’s hair is in constant flux reminiscent of the Romantic era.

    233. Capella says:

      A 2008 piece in the Independent:
      BBC hit by row over ‘History of Scotland’
      Advisers on landmark new television series quit in protest against its ‘anglocentric bias’

      First, the 10-part series comes under fire over claims that it is too “anglocentric”. The failure to front it with a historian has been attacked. Academic advisers stormed out before programmes were completed.”

      https://archive.is/SaUPe

    234. K1 says:

      Is that the Silvikrin romantic era from the 80’s Grouse 🙂

    235. Molly says:

      Was lucky enough to attend Court No 1 at the Court of Session to see ‘weel Kent faces’ of the judiciary present the case against Thomas Muir recently.

      Before it started Professor Tom Devine spoke . He explained and put into context the politics , society and mindset of the time . Class – sheer class , now that’s a historian !

      For someone like me, who didn’t even know where the Court of Session was, it came as a surprise as to how small , even confined it is and it must have been quite intimidating when the public were up in the gallery cheering or voicing their disapproval .

      Prof Devine set the scene and the lawyers using the original transcript of the trial showed why this mans life should be made into a play or film .

      Even Donald Findlay ( as Lord Braxfield) if he ever retires from his day job ( or singing career) played the part perfectly .

      Can I just wish and Thank all those involved , taking a stand, defending decency and honesty tomorrow ( v Alistair Carmichael ) good luck .

      As for Mr Oliver, you never thought of asking the residents of the Whins of Milton what they dig up in their back garden? They could maybe point you in the right direction as to the Battle of Bannockburn . A historian would .

    236. Tinto Chiel says:

      @ALANM 6.09 pm.

      Greetings, new poster (?). You’ve summed up Mr Oliver very succinctly. I’ve always thought of him as a complete chancer, weathervane and housewife’s choice Scottish historian with no qualification in the latter discipline. As a TV archaeologist he was also an utter failure: I refer you to the risible Two Men in A Trench. Might have been entitled Two Men in Search of A Purpose.

      Sad little man, but nice hair if you’re an Afghan hound.

    237. Tinto Chiel says:

      Molly, only caught your post after mine.

      Amen to all that. Thomas Muir was an amazing man and I can’t quite think who could play him in a biopic.

      As for Mr Carmichael, I only hope Scottish Justice (?) does the necessary tomorrow. Not holding my breath since I hope to have a Scottish passport before I pop my tartan clogs.

      Patience and cunning required.

      Having said that, the future belongs to us.

    238. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Tinto Chiel.

      In the following song, substitute “us” for “me” in the lyrics.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKVvmfasK7E

    239. Tinto Chiel says:

      Thanks, BDTT. Ah, SAHB, the memories!

      Hope springs eternal on the Fozzy Front. Or will the Establishment do the usual?

    240. Captain Caveman says:

      Can I just quickly say, although I don’t agree with the sentiment, this cartoon did make me roar with genuine laughter. ‘[John]Bullshit Compost’… LOL! 😀

      /tips comedy hat

    241. Ghillie says:

      Neil Oliver : an embarassment to archaeologists and historians the world over.

      As for Hamish’s lovely sun flower =) LET THE SUN SHINE IN!!!



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