Coming down the road
We’ll leave the competing estimates of numbers to the organisers and the Scottish media. What matters the most is that there certainly seems to have been a modestly respectable turnout for the first independence rally in Edinburgh.
(Which is an all the more commendable showing given that the march isn’t part of the official YesScotland campaign and was very poorly publicised until the last 48 hours.)
Happily, this wee fella wasn’t on his own.
Starting to gather at the Meadows.
A pretty impressive procession down George IV Bridge.
Stretching down the Mound. Good old Instagram.
Passing the National Portrait Gallery. (Which is gorgeous, by the way.)
The white t-shirt reads “Thank you, United Kingdom, but we’ll take it from here”.
“Get yer coat, ye’ve pulled.”
Marchers reach the junction with Princes St. Watch out for trams!
Into the gardens to hear the speakers.
Seems like a good deal.
Also featured: some honourable people whose party won’t speak for them.
Standing room only. Someone’s still using a 2 megapixel camera, bless ’em.
A warm reception for (we think) the First Minister.
And the view from behind the FM.
There is, of course, much online sniping from the No camp already, as well as some feeble attempts at sabotage of the event itself. (Not condemned by Unionists, naturally.) But remember – the Better Together “blitz” didn’t set a very high bar, and so far it looks as if the nationalists have cleared it carrying an elephant in diver’s boots.
Some nice pics there Rev. Here’s a good one I spotted.
https://twitter.com/alexaitch/status/249484972057051136/photo/1/large
I should have been there with my partner, unfortunately mu health decided otherwise. 🙁
That’s no Ryan in the photo (feeble attempts) is it?
If it is Ryan whaurs his wee dug, I guess he was too busy eating his roll on sausage!
Congratulations to everybody who was able to attend today’s march and rally.
If this is what we can achieve with the “minimal” advertising this year, WHAT can we achieve next year? 😀
Congrats to all. Am watching from afar, and enjoying the pics.
It’s been a good day so far, just left with the family now to get something to eat, the missus is like a moth going to the light with these bloody shops, my visa is on fire.
Just in case any one is wondering about who the hell Ryan is, here’s his wee video about himself, his wee dug and his sausage rolls. 😆
http://scottishindependence2014.co.uk/videos/vote-no-to-independence-because-of-sausage-rolls-and-wee-dogs
At least the attempted sabotage can be blamed on drink. Spot the blue carry-out bag by the bush. 🙂
Well done folks. More folk will now be discussing independence after today.
I am so gutted I couldn’t make it today. Looks like a cracking turnout and the silence on all broadcast channels to date is deafening. Here’s hoping for some coverage on the evening reports.
I have made it back home after the march, and watching some of the talks and bands.
This morning, as I walked down to the meadows in Edinburgh, I was literally overjoyed at the massive crowds I saw, with everyone in good spirits. More than that, it was a true soul fulfilling experience, to be surrounded by so many people committed to Scottish independence. Awash, literally in a sea of saltires. Truly, truly, magnificent.
There were many more people than expected, and as a consequence, the events at the Ross band stand in princes street gardens were delayed until all the marchers got in.
First speaker on stage? why Alex Salmond of course, to huge cheers. Then Margo, and the guy from Labour for Scottish independence.
This was a day, I will never forget. Sadly, I’m not up to staying all day, or indeed going to the party tonight, but I am sure many others will.
For those who didn’t make it, let me just say, it was fantastic, and next year, they will apparently be chartering their own trains. Next year will be even bigger.
Wonderful weather, wonderful people, and a mass of saltires, the ultimate Scottish antidote to the union jackery we have endured all summer long. I feel better already!
No looking back, only looking forward, Vote YES in 2014.
Just been banned from the hootsmen for posting on the march topic over there ,
I’m just back. It was a huge turnout, many more than I was expecting and it was an incredibly friendly atmosphere. Alex Salmond ‘s speech was great and Margo MacDonald was in good form. Ruth Wishart spoke and declared her support for independence. Allan Grogan of Labour Supporters for Independence spoke very well too.
I saw two union flags going up away at the back of the crowd long before the speeches started and about three minutes later they were down again and the guy with the bag was being frog-marched away by the police to laughs and cheers from the crowd.
At that point someone remarked to me that we “won’t see much of today’s events in the press, apart from Newsnet Scotland.” And Wings over Scotland, I added, just doing my bit.
@MajorBloodnock
Just been over there and directed anyone present over here to look at the images.
Hope you had a great time. 🙂
Major bloodnock
RE The man who was arrested.2 mins later his uncle came over and was giving the police an earbashing. It went like this:
“That’s my nephew you’ve just arrested for standing up to these separitist bastards”
Policeman basically wentn “that’s nice”
I don’t want to be a pain, and I know my comment was maybe a bit over enthusiastic, but it seems to have vanished into the lumeniferous ether/cyberspace…. or something.
Maybe it was too boring……? Or does the spam system not like my new E-mail address???
Well done Jeff Duncan for organising the first march. Next year I will make sure I don’t get double-booked again. Now wish I had gone. 🙁
O.K. folks here’s a choice for you.
Do you prefer the unionist “song for the day”
https://www.facebook.com/
OR
Do you prefer this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=aLriCJ0fKyo
One photo is mis-captioned – it’s not National Portrait Gallery, it’s the National Gallery of Scotland. The National Portrait Gallery is on Queen Street.
It was a great day.
Some nice coverage over on RT.com.
http://rt.com/news/scotland-independence-march-edinburgh-732/
@Arb
I’ve been combing the internet and news channels all day Arb, not a sniff.
Seeing that wee link was a breath of fresh air. 🙂
Well that last post went down well…..NOT!
Let’s try again shall we?
O.K. folks here’s a choice for you.
Do you prefer the unionist “song for the day”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTSA_sWGM44
<strong>OR</strong>
Do you prefer this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=aLriCJ0fKyo
Hope this works out this time!
WHIT?
You’ve been looking for news about the march on the news channels Macart?
Whit are you on?
Don’t you remember it is an INDEPENDENCE march, hence there is, by law, NO T.V. news coverage permitted! 😆
I think a visit to the “DARKENED ROOM” is called for here. 😀
Great day, far more people than I dared expect. Some great speeches – Salmond giving one of the best rabble rousers he’s ever given, Margo was as entertaining as you would expect (could have cut it down a bit though), very passionate speeches from Colin Fox, Patrick Harvie, Dennis Canavan and Cameron McNeish, and thoughtful ones from Ruth Wishart and Isobel Lindsey. Alan Bisset’s reading of Vote Britain deserved to be higher up the running order – it would have made a brilliant opener to set the stage.
Could have done with a few less bands playing songs about Bannockburn or playing cover versions with bagpipes. That’s postcard Scotland culture. That’s not what independence is about. Mind you, Clanadonia could probably sell out venues in Venica!
Jeez R.L. If they are chartering trains next year I think the police had better give SERIOUS consideration to CLOSING down Princes Street completely. 😆
Hello all,
Am still in Edinburgh and enjoyed the rally and the 10,000 who attended were exemplary.
As noted by the Major above, the only incident was one drunk ned and a quite sad banner on the march (I got a photo).
But good news wings readers…
I also got Interviews with Alex Salmond, Angus Robertson and the youth parliament member Ross Greer.
Also lots of great photos to share.
@Arb
I’ve been in there all summer (just comin’ oot for the wee boys room visits). It wuz the only way to avoid the ‘lympics. 😀
Absolutely brilliant sneekyboy, look forward to reading all about it.
Just back – beautiful day and great atmosphere. This response with two years to go is very promising!
JI’m Murphy is throwing astrop on twitter about numbers.
Did SLAB ever reveal the voting breakdown of the leadership election, r their membership numbers?
bbc bias just put figures at 3000! Cant wait for the bbc to be broken up and disposed of post independence…
Congratulations Sneeky. I’m looking forward to reading your interviews and seeing your photos.
Arthur over on Scottish has a couple of videos of the march.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=aLriCJ0fKyo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=q4dKDQ93sGw
Just a couple of wee tasters to how the event went.
AWESOME!
Any one who says that there were LESS than 10,000 MUST be lying. There is no way in HELL that less than 10,000 were marching and attending the rally!
I’m really upset that I was unable to go this year, seats were booked and everything, unfortunately my body decided that I was NOT up to it despite protestations from my head and heart!
I wish I’d stayed to hear Alan Bissett, reading Vote Britain. It really is an essential piece of art, that every Scot needs to hear.
Looking forward to reading Sneakyboy’s interviews with Salmond et.al.
As regards Jim Murphy, is that first sign of the unionists greetin already?? What a cheery bunch.
There’s no way in hell that’s just 3000. Amazing the difference seeing the evidence in pictures makes.
Had a good laugh at the three wee neds – I was standing up the back just in front of them.
I was discussing with the lassie standing next to me, about how their ‘protest’ would probably get more more attention if they were dressed a bit more respectable and not like a couple of chavs, with their hoodies zipped all the way up and their jeans half-way down their back-sides.
Within a couple of minutes, Ned1 wandered off to speak to Ned2 and one of our kilted warriors jumped up onto the embankment and tried to grab the Union flag from the tree. Unfortunately, he slipped and ended up breaking the branch and falling on his face. No problem tho’ – he still had the offending flag in his mitt. However, Ned1 had by this time realised that something was up and jumped on top of our kilted warrior to try and retrieve his butcher’s apron. At this point, Lothian and Borders police pounced, and after a few minutes scuffling in the dirt, they escorted both chaps away – including our kilted warrior to a massive standing ovation.
I think we should salute the kilted gent whoever he is – ‘Taking one for the team’ 🙂
I had a laugh at the ‘Doctors’ pub located next to the Meadows. It opened early I guess in anticipation of hungry and thirsty marchers popping in . Nae luck with those union flags hinging outside it. Stupid tory unionist greeting faced gits. Never liked that pub anyway(Sandy Bells is the place to drink in that part of town). The coffee shops across the road were doing a roaring trade in comparison by the way. Had a great time today and I was delayed getting to the gardens due to my disability and missed AS but you could hear the cheers from the top of the Mound echoing off the castle rock and funneled up the Mound . Great stuff.
I’m not good at estimating numbers, but the terrace area was well filled. It wasn’t Hillsborough, you could move around in the crowd, and sit down and stand up, but especially towards the front if you wanted to move any distance you had to detour and “excuse me”. And the whole place was full, right to Princes Street, no empty spaces. I have to say, I think the organisers got more than they were expecting, and if there had been twice whatever number it was it would have been a serious safety issue. As it was, a few people were climbing fences to change position for a better view, which was risky.
People discussing this as if it was a protest march are seriously misunderstanding the position, and the gibes about “a personal embarrassment for Salmond” are just bitter posturing. I repeat, if significantly more people had been expected, the arena would not have coped. The way the police seemed to be behaving, I think there were more than they expected. They were constantly warning us to hold back and not crowd and be careful on the steps. One young WPC said she’d have liked to march but at least she was allowed to chat and be nice to people.
STV News gave a good report on the march.
Labours Patricia (the ever useless) Ferguson,s comments on the STV website were not mentioned on TV.
Hate filled Ferguson is so bitter that she is not fit for purpose.
Seriously, it was a day of affirmation. Let the Unionist gripe about the numbers, if you were there you’d know the truth; the march was well supported and was closer to 10000. When Better Together organise their march they can discuss numbers.
The best moment for me was when Alex Salmond mentioned minimum pricing of alcohol and thousands of Scots made a noise which said, ‘dinae ken aboot that like’.
Aamer Anwar’s speech made me realise that one day Scotland’s going to have a First Minister (or some such) of Asian origin. It’s a nice thought for the future.
Thousands of activists left Edinburgh today full of determination to make sure it’s YES on R Day. Our thanks must go to Jeff and everyone who helped to make it happen.
The Hootsmon trolls are shameless. Oh, it was less than 0.2% of the population, it’s all over for the YES campaign, better cancel the referendum. Personal embarrassment for Salmond, knows he’s going to lose.
Aye, right. Those pictures sure look like an embarrassment for Salmond, don’t they? Not. Pics 13 and 19 give the best idea of what it was like. I was constantly trying to get an overall view but it was next to impossible.
The day we see a Bitter Together rally, and it gets a statistically significant proportion of the population to show up, is the day they can start crowing. Ain’t gonna happen. I doubt they’d get four figures.
What a braw day ! Fabulous turn out.
Just back. Tired but happy. Was impressed by the turnout and unsurprised to see the numbers downplayed by the BBC. One day I will go on a demo where the numbers taking part are accurately reported. One day.
I was hugely entertained by the the rather inept attempt at a pro-union counter demonstration. I have visions of them going home and being asked how it went only to have to answer ‘well we started a fight, got lifted and thousands of nationalists laughed at us’.
The MORE pictures that I see the more I am convinced that even the 10,000 number is an UNDER estimate! 😀
Just thinking Martyman. If that eejit William can get the Order of the Thistle for doing NOTHING then surely the “Kilted Warrior” should be awarded the same for fighting for his country! 😆
I think that picture 3 also gives an EXCELLENT idea of numbers Morag. I can’t look at that picture in particular ans believe for ONE minute that there were only 3,000 people there. If anything that one picture alone would, I think, give MORE credence to my thoughts that there were MORE that 10,000 at the march and rally.
The official police numbers are 5,000. While they do tend to underestimate, getting accurate numbers would be very difficult. If the official police numbers are 5,000 then that would be a good turnout.
The organisers claimed 10,000 but I think that number is too high.
Its been a great day, looking forward to the next one next year.
Arbroath, actually picture 3 doesn’t do much. The line stretches out of sight in front, and if you turned round it would stretch out of sight the other way. Not just by a bit, but by a very long way. And people weren’t packed together as we marched, we were just strolling (except when the young things carrying our banner got ahead of us, and we had to go at the double to catch them and tell them to cool it a bit).
I understand that when the terracing was already quite well filled, the police were saying there were people still leaving the Meadows. They had to delay the start of the rally to let everyone get in, and by the end of the march the police were siphoning people away from the bandstand area towards the rear, for safety. You really only get an idea from pictures at the rally, and it was quite hard to get an angle to show the real size of the crowd.
I’m sure there were more than 5,000, I just don’t know how many more. What’s the safe capacity of the venue would be a good question to ask.
Would just like to say thanks for the photos and the comments on the march, it looked extremely positive and must be a fantastic boost for independence supporters. Will definitely attend the next one come hell or high water.
It’s also a cracking photo of independence supporters on George IV Bridge, never though I would ever see the day to see something like that. Magic.
a different report of the march 🙂
http://www.bbc.scotlandshire.co.uk/index.php/city-news/11-separatist-rioters-spoil-the-capital.html
I’m sure there were more than 5,000, I just don’t know how many more. What’s the safe capacity of the venue would be a good question to ask.
I think that is the real question that needs asked! Does anyone know?
Arbroath said:
If that eejit William can get the Order of the Thistle for doing NOTHING then surely the “Kilted Warrior” should be awarded the same for fighting for his country!
I thought at the beginning that everyone should have just ignored the Union flags. One was really big though, and spread out right up top at the back. There seemed to be very few people with it, because they couldn’t even keep it from blowing off.
I just heard a cheer, and saw police and the flag gone, and at first just thought the cops had told them to take it down. But then I saw there was a scuffle, and realised one of the marchers had tried to pull it down. I was afraid they were going to arrest the marcher, and give the unionists their flag back. However, the last I saw of the flag was it exiting stage left, bundled up under the arm of a rather large police-type person, and it never reappeared.
I guess with many thousands of people there it was too much to expect that there wouldn’t be a single one who would have a go at that. And at least it got rid of the flag. I heard the people with the flag had their faces hidden behind balaclavas and scarves. And I heard there are good pictures of that little factoid going the rounds.
Er, the only estimate I can see on the BBC website is from Lothian & Borders Police and it says 5000.
But that must be an “establishment lie”, mustn’t it? Obviously the police have no experience of estimating crowd numbers.
Still, we’re glad you’ve had your wee day oot and you’re full of false hope. It suits our purpose.
Safe capacity of the venue is 12000, I believe.
There were thousands of people in the venue when the tail of the march was still on George IV Bridge. Look at pic 3 – count 10 people and another block etc – see the size 100 people make and realise that the march was out of sight either end.
Unfortunately, despite mu optimism earlier in the week I was unable to attend. However, from looking at all the photos I’ve seen I’m still convinced that there were DEFINITELY more than 5,000 and I still believe the figure will eventually turn out to be bearer 15,000.
Either way today has been a GREAT day for the START of the MARCH to Independence. When you think that today’s event took place with minimal Internet and other advertising can you just imagine what NEXT year will be like now that we’ve seen what can be achieved with the minimal advertising. From what R.L. is saying it is looking like next year WILL be bigger than today. Let’s hope that not only will thew number of chartered buses will be greater but we will also, by what R.L. has apparently heard, have chartered trains as well.
Four questions.
Is Edinburgh ready for next year’s march?
Will Edinburgh be able to handle the march and rally next year?
Will the police be able to close Princes Street?
Will the MSM actually TRUTHFULLY report on next year’s event?
I am also just back from the march and rally. To me the notable thing was the egalitarian nature of the day – I ended up marching beside Tommy Sheridan and his family, if i had wanted to I could have approached and chatted with several Scottish cabinet members as well as sundry other weel kent faces.
This was just a wee marker put down, to let people know we are ready and able to take the movement forwards.
Next time will be even better.
Thanks for the photos Stu – and R. Louis – i spotted myself in the RT pictures!
This story for tomorrows edition of Scotland on Sunday already available their Bookface page:
http://www.facebook.com/myscotlandonsunday
I remember when the police had their march for increased pay.
There must have been 50 max.
sm753
The only false hope is the Union. Regardless of the actual numbers concerned all you need to take away from today’s lesson is the fact that the YES campaign can get a lot more activists out than the NO side can. We’re going to win and you know it.
Arbroath, the announcement was that next year will be at the same venue but there will be trains chartered and not just the small number of ad-hoc buses. I seriously think if they get a substantially larger number next year the venue will not cope. It wasn’t full today, but it was a helluva lot more than half full – I’d say at least three-quarters. Might have been 9,000 by that way of counting.
We were also told that in 2014 the rally will be somewhere else, as Princes Street Gardens will not be sufficient. I think they may have to re-think the 2013 plans actually. Though it was a fantastic venue, I don’t know where else would be as good.
Clochoderic, I turned round when I was approaching the Gardens to find Kenny MacAskill walking right behind me. Right now I have it in for him big time over the Lockerbie business, but this afternoon we walked together for what we both believe in.
Adrian B says:
This story for tomorrows edition of Scotland on Sunday already available their Bookface page:
http://www.facebook.com/myscotlandonsunday
Jings, bitter or what? It makes you wonder if that BBC Scotlandshire is actually much of a parody.
I was with a political historian who was comparing the turnout favourably with the pro-devolution marches of the 1990s. And to compare it with Barcelona last week is the same mistake. This wasn’t a protest march, or a demonstration demanding something. We don’t need to demand. We’ve got our referendum, and we’re fine with that, and we just fancied a nice day out to show our support for what we have.
Not quite the same thing as a frustrated mob baying for a self-determination denied to them, is it?
Sm357 your pure bealing ya dafty, you can tell , it’s eating you up inside that so many ordinary folk turned up in Edinburgh for that march today, activists you say, well I was there with my family, and so were lots of other ordinary people, having a great day in the sun.
You just go back to throwing your darts at Alex salmonds picture on the wall and keep telling yourself you are going to romp it in 2014. Same way the BBC did in May 2011.
@ Morag
We were destined to be measured against the Catalan’s rally – more fool the NO side. If they had the courage of their convictions (dictionary definition available for any Unionist reader) they’d organise their own march to show us up.
I was also next to Kenny MacAskill for a while and at the BNP frisson which Scott Minto was present at. Maybe next year we’ll have a Wings get together.
Sorry, but I would like to make one final comment.
Sometimes you doubt whether Scotland is going to make it as you do your own little bit to fight against the propaganda machine of the British state, but that picture of George IV Bridge has convinced me that we will.
We’ll get there in the end, of that I now have no doubt.
I find it hilarious that the pro-union side seem to think that the event needed millions to turn up for it to be of significance.
If it was a protest, yes, then numbers would be very important. It was nothing of the sort – just a fun day out for the more active/enthusiastic who could make it. If the pro-union camp can’t understand this, it only confirms they no little about politics/people/running a country and so adds weight to the independence argument. I’d rather have people of intellect in charge personally.
sm753 – when do you predict the Tory revival needed to prevent the inevitable? I understand the Tories have been hoping for this for 60 years in Scotland yet for some reason it just never seems to happen. Also, I ask again, what do you predict will happen in the 2014 referendum, 2015 UKGE (if there is the no vote you hope for) and 2016 SGE? You seem reluctant to voice a view on this. What are your views on the current UK government having the lowest share of the vote (according to polls) in Scotland’s history? How about the 7 in 10 Scots for all but independence? What do you think this comes from? I’m interested to hear thoughts from the no-camp.
sm753,
You say:
“But that must be an “establishment lie”, mustn’t it? Obviously the police have no experience of estimating crowd numbers.”
The Police, in a generic sense, are extremely poor at this. One is entitled to wonder why?
sm753. You should have seen the saddos with the union flags. Better Together really has to up it’s game- it will have a real problem with the bonkers wing of unionism. All that was missing was the Red Hand Of Ulster. A big ‘on yersel’ ‘to the guy who jumped the bank and removed the flags.
“Safe capacity of the venue is 12000, I believe.”
I’ve seen that tweeted a few times but I don’t know where it’s coming from. The arena holds 3000 standing, however there were a lot more people in the gardens around it as can be seen in the neat panorama shot on National Collective. 5000-6000 seems a pretty fair estimate overall. Although if the police have estimated the size of a demo – any demo – accurately rather than significantly underplaying it it’d be the first time, so maybe 1 or 2K more than that at the top end.
It’s weird, if not exactly surprising, that so many Unionists are trying to portray it as a flop. If they’d been expecting bigger numbers they wouldn’t have marched to a place with such a modest capacity. Seems they got rather more than they were hoping for. A decent start, and will have done the credibility of the organisers a power of good, which augurs well for the next one.
@ douglas clark
You’d think by now there’d be an accurate way of measuring crowds. The Catalan police gave one number, smaller than that of the organisers, and the Spanish police gave another half that size.
“Still, we’re glad you’ve had your wee day oot and you’re full of false hope. It suits our purpose.”
Really, this sort of pathetic half-hearted trolling is beneath you. And in its way, that’s a compliment.
Douglas Clark said:
Obviously the police have no experience of estimating crowd numbers.”
The Police, in a generic sense, are extremely poor at this. One is entitled to wonder why?
The police seemed perfectly friendly, without the slightest hint of hostility. My impression from afar was that they were glad of the chance to get the union flag out of the gardens and well prepared to frogmarch its owners. One on-duty cop said to me that she’d actually have preferred to have been on the march.
So I don’t think they’re undercounting for politically biassed reasons. I suspect a basically biassed counting method that applies to all such events. The organisers would err on the other side too, it’s inevitable. A wee bit of exaggeration is more or less expected. Eight or nine thousand though, I think.
@ Rev
The 12000 figure comes from a guy who told me that – and who am I to disagree on such a nice day. I’ve been on a fair few marches and rallies in Scotland and elsewhere. I’d guess the true figure to be about 8000.
@ Morag
I was standing behind a policeman who’d all but given up on his duties and was obviously listening to the speeches. First time I’ve seen that at a rally.
RevStu said:
The arena holds 3000 standing, however there were a lot more people in the gardens around it as can be seen in the neat panorama shot on National Collective.
The police were preventing marchers from entering the arena as the latter part of the march was coming in. The arena wasn’t full to capacity, but if it had been any fuller there could have been real trouble for people who wanted to move around, get to the toilets or go out to the burger van.
To me, the police were behaving as if they had a bigger crowd control exercise on their hands than they were expecting. There were a lot of them filtering people very slowly towards the top of the steps down to the gardens, and constantly repeating cautions to be careful and for people with children or mobility problems to go round the other way.
I think there is only ONE thing that can be said about the Bitter campaign, they’re BITTER, jealous and upset that no one is listening to them.
I agree with you Morag. Next year WILL be bigger and the venue this year will not be big enough. Perhaps they should think about just taking over the WHOLE of Princes Street. 😆
I think this year’s event was a trial run to see how it would work out. Now that we’ve seen the response from, in effect, an ad hoc arrangement I truly believe that next year will see a MASSIVE increase in numbers. We will have had a year to work on increasing support for Independence and without doubt the MSM will be hard pressed to ignore the march and rally next September! Come to think about it I think ALL scheduled rail journeys may be cancelled next year, they’ll need ALL the trains for ther charters to Edinburgh. 😆
Cuphook said:
I was standing behind a policeman who’d all but given up on his duties and was obviously listening to the speeches. First time I’ve seen that at a rally.
Well, what else was there to do? Apart from the wee stushie with the flag well before the rally started, all that was going on was people standing around or sitting around behaving themselves.
I saw a few people who’d been directed round the back of the arena when it was deemed full climb the fence to get into the arena. Fortunately nobody hurt themselves at that game. The cops didn’t notice. But that was the only other potential work for them to justify their presence once the basic crowd marshalling had been seen to.
I imagine the police found the event much easier to manage than an orange order Tory ‘unionist’ march. Seems the only people out to cause trouble were waving a union jack.
I know 3 people in the police through local social funtions etc. They have all said the same to me; in the past, the Tories were the preferred party of the police. Now it’s SNP. Hardly a surprise given the way the SNP have listened to the police in Scotland, boosting numbers etc compared to the massive budget cuts south of the border?
I recall one saying he’d always voted Tory until he heard about the McCrone report. He went online and the rest is history.
Oops forgot to include these in my last post.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=414662675255561&set=a.312513638803799.78434.297192740335889&type=1&theater
@ Morag
Yeah – but this guy was actually listening. He was absorbed in a way I’ve never seen before. it made me realise that the message is getting out to a more widespread group of people. I don’t know if I’ve been on a march before where the police presence was so benign.
Oh, and if anyone hears of the fate of the guy who took down the Union flags let me know if he needs a contribution to any possible fine.
A wee bit closer today.
sm 753
A wee tip from Ghandi “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win”. Simple really!
@Cuphook,
I got the impression that more than a few of the police present were quietly sympathetic and after the embarrassing, thuggish display by the unionist counter
demonstrators who could blame them?
I do hope the Better Together campaign will be distancing themselves from the actions of their supporters arrested today. They’re really not doing themselves or their campaign any favours by turning a blind eye to this sort of thing.
@ Betsy
I expect a full apology from Alistair Darling is being made to the media as we speak. As we know, Johann Lamont is unavailable for comment.
I saw the Better Together spokesman on Scotland Tonight hoping that the march would pass without incident. Who’d have thought that it would be the Unionists creating the incident.
Cuphook asked:
Who’d have thought that it would be the Unionists creating the incident?
All of us?
Pretty much.
Just back in the west after a wonderful day out at the march and rally in Edinburgh. I was supposed to meet up with neighbours, but couldn’t find them, so was on my own and you know what…….it didn’t matter, because it was so easy just to fit in with the crowd. Fantastic atmosphere and I thought Ruth Wishart was great, as was Alan Bissett – in fact, all the speakers were good and Margo MacDonald certainly knew how to work the crowd. Agree with her or not, she still comes across as one of the people.
There was a real sense of history in the making today.
The march was fantastic, the weather was brilliant, and the speeches were inspiring. The music was no bad. The most important result, however, was a very interested crowd of onlookers all along the march route and in the gardens. It was quite easy to figure out the people’s (onlookers) current feelings about independence by their body language. Supporters of independence were smiling and engaging (accepting flags etc), fence-sitters were cautious but intrigued to hear the message. Staunch unionists hurried past, rather embarrassed and avoided eye contact completely. I am glad to report the smiling, engaging audience far outnumbered all others. We can win this in 2014.
I got a great photo of a group of besuited Japanese tourists photographing us!
For those who were at the rally today, and those of us who weren’t, here are a couple of wee tasters of what went on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RT4jN8eR2cE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RT4jN8eR2c
Now we have a wee bit about the unionist attack today.
http://keyboredwarrior.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/the-ugly-face-of-bnp-in-edinburgh.html
Right that’s bad s**** out of the way, now for the good stuff. 😀
keyboredwarrior.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/blog-post.html
keyboredwarrior.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/independence-march-edinburgh.html
keyboredwarrior.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/blog-post_3302.html
keyboredwarrior.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/edinburgh-has-never-looked-so-good.html
C’mon you guys, unionist or republican, the police always underestimate the numbers, they did the same with cnd, greenpeace et al. although if there is a unionist orange march they’ll probably report 5 million, when in fact 2014 will show up!
I thoroughly enjoyed the day and found it really inspiring. I was delighted to see so many young folk marching too!
@ Cuphook and Betsy
I too clocked the polis nodding away in agreement at the good sense from the speakers and the good nature of the crowd.
I was amused to see a Scottish Government minister getting run ragged by her hyper-active wean!
Actually, I think we have a very good idea about who attended, as Edinburgh council insists that for major events, people are allowed into Princes St Gardens in groups of 200. The police estimate of 5,000 was, I believe for the gathering in the meadows. The tally at the Ross Arena was just shy of 10,000. Makes sense when you think of how many made their own way there on trains and buses.
This business of comparing with Catalunya, is absurd on many levels. Here are just a few notes, taken from my own limited understanding of the situation.
Under General Franco, the fascist dictator who ruled Spain (part funded by the USA) with an iron fist until his death in 1975, the people of Catalunya suffered very hash treatment. Their language and culture was effectively suppressed. There are many in Catalunya who lived through Franco, so the suppression of Catalan language and culture is a very, very raw subject, even now. Madrid rule is equally contentious.
The new right wing Spanish Government which replaced the Government of Zapatero, have, I have been told, discussed steps to modify some of the autonomy Catalunya has, and also to limit or change the increase in use of Catalan as the first language.
Several independence referenda in Catalunya have given resounding yes results, but have been dismissed by the courts in Madrid as being ‘unconstitutional’.
In Spain right now, there are endless suggestions of corruption within the new Government, and the people of Spain, not just Catalunya, are angry as hell about the austerity cuts being imposed via the right wing administration. Almost every weekend there are massive demonstrations in Madrid and elsewhere in Spain against the cuts. Of course, unless you search very hard, you will find little in the MSM here to tell you of the running battles in puerta Sol, involving riot police and demonstrators. Protesting in Spain is the new national sport.
In Catalunya, there is a general feeling, backed up by hard facts, that Catalunya is producing more money than the central Madrid Government is allowing them back. This coupled with totally clumsy changes to money distribution has made the Catalans angry. Catalunya is a wealthy part of Spain, and can see no good reason why they should be held back by Madrid. In a time of austerity and a hugely unpopular Madrid Government, such an argument is even more compelling.
So, you see, Catalunya, is literally a powderkeg of resentment against Madrid right now, with feeling inflamed by a clumsy unpopular right wing Madrid Government who give little thought to other regions, who appear to be sucking lots of money from Catalunya to Madrid, and have generally shown a complete disregard for the people of Catalunya. The only surprising thing about the numbers at the recent march in Barcelona, was that there weren’t more at it. The people there are seriously angry.
So, getting back to Scotland, for any person to try to draw comparisons with the numbers at the march in Edinburgh today, and the recent events in Catalunya, requires extremely high levels of ignorance and stupidity regarding Spanish current affairs. To suggest the situations are similar, is beyond daft, and betrays the rank ignorance of those making such comparisons.
It’s just the kind of thing a unionist might do.
Having been at the march in Edinburgh today, the point I would make regarding numbers, is this. I saw people joining the march part way through, so the numbers increased, and I also know personally, that many people who did not make the march actually turned up in the gardens to hear the talks etc.. I’d put the numbers as closer to 8,000 or 9,000, from what I saw. Do not let the unionists p*ss on your parade, this was a quite fantastic march, with a superb turnout.
Vote Yes in 2014.
@clochoderic
It kind of gave you the impression of a country coming together. I can honestly say I’ve never seen the polis in apparent agreement with socialist speakers before. Today was exactly the sort of happening that the likes of sm753 are so afraid of. In two years time the people of Scotland are going to see the word YES and put a kiss next to it.
today swelled my heart.
as others have posted, it was a great feeling to be among like minded people. if anything, i came away from todays march so looking forward to the next one.
Looks like an amazing day! Wish I could have been there! Best wishes Scotland!
A great day, nice to be around like minded people, however many there were.
Other than that, I have nothing to say beyond what’s already been added above.
I don’t do rallies per se but I’ll be along for the next one.
Due to the stairs at the entrance of the gardens for safety considerations the stewards were scheduling groups of 200 to descend the stairs so simple arithmetic, how many groups of 200 entered? Also the stewards advised the option of entrance nearer to Princes Street rather than via the stairs.
A good turnout,an excellent day and excellent speeches.
A lot of people bypassed these stairs though. Our bus had quite a few people who didn’t want to do the walk, and were driven from the Meadows to King’s Stables Road. This was deliberately arranged to allow the elderly and disabled to attend, and I think quite a few of the other buses did the same thing.
There were people coming into the Gardens from all the entrances as far as I could see.
Morag
The march was great but the really important thing was where was the burger van? Why isn’t this vital information made available. I was in torment most of the afternoon smelling fried onions but was enjoying the speeches too much to move:)
Mind you later, I found a wee cart on Princes Street selling hot dogs but I could’ve killed for a cheeseburger with lots of onion. Such is the sacrifice we make for a new Scotland.
What is completely nuts is the comments of the troll brigade that we needed over 200,000 to make any impression at all. They’ve got that figure in their head and decided that anything less is “a personal humiliation for Salmond”.
If 200,000 had turned up in that venue, it would have been carnage of Hillsborough proportions. The organisers were hoping to make a decent fill of the bandstand area, and they got far more than that.
Great day out, let’s do it again some time.
amateur video by Peter Curran of the key speeches .
audio quality dips now and again.
Sneddom said:
The march was great but the really important thing was where was the burger van? Why isn’t this vital information made available.
We passed it when walking between the foot of the stairs into the gardens and the entrance to the bandstand area. It was maybe half way along that wide tarmac path, on the right as you approached the bandstand. I snuck out when that lassie started to sing, but the burgers were taking a time to cook and the queue was quite long so I missed at least one speaker. Very very tasty burger, generous size, with fried onions. £4.50.
There was a lassie coming round the crowd with a big bag of tablet, just offering it to everyone and saying, take two pieces. She got me twice, once pre-burger (that was what stirred my appetite to go burger-hunting) and once while I was in the middle of eating it. She must have made a ton of the stuff. It was very good too.
Sounds like a great festival atmosphere. Really chuffed to see how well everyone has done.
The hootsman banning aye supporters left right and centre today apparently we are all racist according to a bitter together posterwho has been reporting comments
Typical unionist fear and censorship. They’ve been trying to gag and keep the independence crowd down through such crude methods for a long time, but it has got too big and too loud for them to bully it down easily by now. The cracks have been showing for a long time and are only growing.
Alex Salmond on a roll! 😀
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwj7upBRyW8
Sm753 A Scottish BBC reporter said whilst attendance figures were a point of debate, the venue in front of the stage holds 3000, now back to the studio…
Cant wait to read your orange posts after 2014
Morag
Thanks for the information. It’s a pity my glasses didn’t work as well as my nose:) Serves me right for trying to be a smart alec(groan) for using the other entrance.
It was the same for my family, when we got there and noticed we had to go down the stairs I quickly tried to get my two year old out her buggy to carry her down.
I got a tap on the shoulder from one of Lothian and Borders finest, to say don’t worry about that pal just walk round and go down the ramp with the wee one. So a big thanks to the police, they were brilliant, very civil and easy to approach for Information needed by folk from out of town.
Re the arrests in the gardens, it seem that the Bitter Together folk are used to breaking the law.
http://www.snp.org/media-centre/news/2012/sep/criminal-offence-anti-independence-campaign
Was just watching video footage of the crowd singing along with Dougie McLean. It should be compulsive viewing, if, for no other reason,than to hear thousands of Scotsmen saying those three little words, ” I love you”. True, they were referring to Caledonia and perhaps the only surprise here is that they weren’t referring to their favourite football team, but I have to say, it was lovely to hear, nonetheless. Go the guys!
Looked at front pages of Scotsman & Herald there is no mention of the Indyrally. Not a smidgen.
Therefore I adjudged it to be a success. Ifit had been a failure itwould have been a front page splash
Erchie,
The Sunday Herald did have a banner on the top of the front page ‘Thousands march for Independence’ although it was not that prominent.
http://eventsedinburgh.org.uk/planners_venue_listing.html&venue_id=667
“Outdoor bandstand with a seating capacity of 1500 (max) and up to 3000 standing capacity.”
Hmm. Sort of blows the bottom out of some of the over-excited comment elsewhere, no?
sm
which makes 4,500 plus a similar number outside the perimeter fence.
What is encouraging are the 100,000 who have signed the Yes pledge. I must do so sometime soon.
sm753
Regardless of the numbers, though it takes more than 5000 people to fill the streets as they were, each one is now a happy activist who is going to work to end your precious Union. Wait until you see next year’s march and the one after that. You know that we’re going to win and it scares you. Like the BNP Unionists that turned up yesterday you turn up on this site with nothing articulate or positive you say. Like all the Better Together side you’ve mair greetings than a Christmas card and that puts people off.
You planning on organising your own march to show us how it’s done? When we see the Better Together side out on the streets then we can talk about numbers. You’d actually get a good turn out from your Orange Order chums.
“Outdoor bandstand with a seating capacity of 1500 (max) and up to 3000 standing capacity.”
Hmm. Sort of blows the bottom out of some of the over-excited comment elsewhere, no?
That area was filled quite early, and the police directed the marchers to the area above. You can see the boundary in some of the pictures, it’s a hedge with some fencing. There were significantly more people outside that area than inside. I saw a couple of guys climb the fence to get inside the bandstand area, after they’d been turned away from the entrance.
So what are you trying to say sm?
There were only 1,500 at the rally.
There were only 3,000 at the rally.
There were only 4,500 at the rally.
By ANY stretch of the imagination, you just have to look at Stu’s photos to realise that even 4,500 is WELL short of the total number of attendees at yesterday’s rally.
I wasn’t going to attend but then a tweet from Jim Murphy motivated me to jump on a bus and get to the rally ASAP! I tweeted him to let him know that as well ;-D
The number in attendance was amazing. The band stand was full with at least double behind and on each side of it. I cannot wait for next year!
And tue police are to be commended. I arrived just as those BNP (or SDL someone said!) we’re putting up the Union flag. I heard one of the police saying they’d allow them to put it up for 5 minutes then tell them to take it down as it was antagonising people at a peaceful rally. They were very polite and friendly though! Seemed to be enjoying themselves as well.
Was a good day! Glad I went along!
R.L. There is someone over on Munguin’s doing the old Scotland Catalonia comparison thing, so I hope you don’t mind but I’ve copied your earlier post to put up on Munguin’s. You are far more eloquent at putting these points across than I could ever be. 😀
A great day. I was over from Finland for it and thoroughly enjoyed myself. I’m not a fan of the bland Dougie Mclean, but Caledonia brought tears to my eyes (‘I think about you all the time’: how true). Will be doing all I can to move back to Scotland before 2014, temporarily at least. I want my vote and the chance to persuade others. My impression on the Meadows was 10,000 to 15,000, and the numbers seemed to swell after that. So if the organisers say 10,000, I’d think they’re erring on the side of caution.