Always trust the BBC
From the BBC’s “at a glance guide to the referendum agreement” feature, written by the Corporation’s political reporter Andrew Black:
What the agreement actually says, if you bother to read it properly:
(Severin Carrell of the Guardian made the same mistake, incidentally. We’ve let Mr Black know, and we’ll watch with interest to see if the BBC corrects its error as quickly as Mr Carrell did when we pointed it out to him. EDIT: the article has now been fixed, but with no acknowledgement of the fact and with the “last edited” timestamp at the top of the page not changed. Naughty, BBC.)
We don’t want to be too obnoxious about it – heaven knows we can all get a bit mixed-up now and again amid the heat and chaos of battle – but the matter of who conducts the referendum seems to us to be a fairly important one to get right first time. You know where to come if you want things reported accurately, readers.
Heard the BBC’s Nick Robinson (albeit somewhat muted given the acoustics in the room) ask Salmond at the press conference why he wanted to ‘rip up the Union Jack’? Salmond’s reply was that he thought that was precisely the kind of pejorative language the BBC had resolved to stop using in this debate..
Tried twice to post a comment but it just disappears. Anyone any idea why?
“Tried twice to post a comment but it just disappears. Anyone any idea why?”
Apologies – Akismet is very trigger-happy about stuff with links in it. Have manually approved it now.
Aye, Nick Robinson’s question was appalling, as were almost all the questions (barring Iain MacWhirter, who asked “what happens if there IS a Yes vote?”) I know these journalists think they’re taking a politician to task or whatever nonsense they use to justify blatantly slanted questions, but they really need to learn VERY QUICKLY that this is not about one party against the other. This is a completely different type of debate, and as such it needs to be conducted in a far more mature manner than they are accustomed to.
Nick Robinson and Marcus Gardham in particular left you in absolutely no doubt whatsoever where their loyalties lie. As a result, you just can’t take anything they say on the issue seriously.
Should have added ‘on another thread’ to the above.
Typical BBC quality. Yet more mistakes and lies. Will be interesting to know how long or if they have the decency to correct it after it is pointed out to them in undeniable black and white. Even then, they’ve already misinformed large numbers of people by now.
Nick Robinson has always been a blatant Tory supporter. I’d expect such absurd performances from him. Why he (weakly) pretends to be neutral (other than to ride the BBC gravy train) I’ll never understand.
Appears that they have changed/deleted part of the wording.
Nick Robinson has form and, reading between the lines, is not a nice man….He gives the impression of being a bully. Robinson is not even fit to attempt to lace Jon Snow’s boots. Unfortunately the reality that the British Empire is long gone does not appear to make itself felt in the consciousness of the BBC’s ‘finest’ political reporters.
Anyone any idea what happened to Eck’s list of complaints to Lord Patten a while back – indeed to the latter’s pledge to investigate and ensure fair and unbiased reporting in future?
Or was that outcome given the prominence it was due in a nib on page 13?
Here’s a wee snippet from A.S. talking about the agreement and some “interesting” news from the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI.)
link to youtube.com
link to telegraph.co.uk
Here’s a couple of clips from the BBC.
link to bbc.co.uk
link to bbc.co.uk
Don’t you just love A.S. Subtlety personified.
If your confused, check the wall behind Cameron at the signing.
To be strictly pedantic, the 2000 legislation does indeed state what it says in the BBC article quoted above. The only problem is that the BBC seems to have forgotten to add the little snippet from the actual agreement signed today which specifically removes the Electoral Commission from running the referendum or announcing the result!
I’ve read the agreement in its entirety and I still can’t believe we got everything we wanted and Westminster got nothing. They are either totally crap at negotiating or they really do want shot of us. We even get to set the rules on financing, which means there’s nothing to stop us banning donations from outwith Scotland! No London money buying the vote this time!
More desperate crap!
Let us not underestimate todays event. For the first time in our Nations history we, the people, will have the opportunity to end the Union of Parliament with England, and become an Independent nation again. Today confirmed this.
I remember reading an account by a French soldier in 1939, defending the Maginot Line. He and many of his comrades believed the war would not happen, as they faced German soldiers during The Phoney War.
For us the phoney debate is over. We will have a referendum and this will concentrate the peoples’ mind. Even plonkers like Ian Smart may admit it. The Unionists nightmare began in earnest today. Todays parcel o rogues can go take a flying fuck!
Re missing comment: Thanks, Stuart.
Watching BBC 24 at the moment. Usual biased pish.
The usual comment is that only around a 1/3 want independence, so Salmond has a lot to do to convince voters.
Why not say only around a 1/3 support the Union, so the Unionists have a lot to do to convince voters?
For a split second I thought Alex Salmond was going to hit David Cameron on the back of the head with the signed document…
The Nick Robinson question was an absolute disgrace but it just reflects the hatred within certain parts of the Unionist establishment for Scotland.
I guess we’ve just not English enough for them.
muttley79
“ Nick Robinson has form and, reading between the lines, is not a nice man….He gives the impression of being a bully. “
Aye:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6Ye06r2_n8
Given that the “Scottish” unionist parties are not actually registered as such and are really London parties, how are they going to fund their campaigns?
OT STV are doing a poll link to twtpoll.com Interesting result so far!
The BBC has now changed the article to remove the error, but not changed the “last edited” timeline at the top, which is very naughty.
How about this reason why the Unionists gave in so easily.
The Tories will get really nasty in 2014, and will lose a vote of no confidence, as the Liberals walk away from the coalition. Meanwhile, the media will have turned Labour into the saviours of the Universe, and Ed as Superman. A GE is called, Labour romp home, and Scots decide to give Labour yet another chance.
The Union is saved.
This is a recurring nightmare i have.
Someone over at the Torygraph just pointed this one out.
link to telegraph.co.uk
It’a a laugh a minute.
Just voted on the STV poll. As Andrew says “interesting, VERY interesting!
I will vote for Independence……………………….85% (106 votes)
I will vote to keep Scotland in the UK…………..10% (13 votes)
I haven’t made my mind up yet……………………4% (5 votes)
I won’t vote in the Independence referendum…1% (1vote)
Only one word springs to mind…….OOPS!
My recurring nightmare is that we vote No, the Tories get re-elected in England and we then become the laughing stock of Europe and the World.
The English Tories will then seek their revenge and Thatcher will seem like a cuddly toy compared to the hatred and poison that will flow from them.
The thing about Robinson and his ilk (Gardham, Cochrane etc) is that I really don’t get the impression they like Scotland and the Scottish people at all. However, they will try their damnest to make sure that we vote No, which is strange in itself. Basically it is about power for them. I feel sorry for the likes of MacWhirter, Gerry Hassan and Isobel Fraser, surrounded as they are by right-wing planks and diehard British nationalists.
@Castle Rock.
Tories are no threat to Scotland anymore. That was obvious today. They are quite aware Scotland can tell them to sod off if it wants. If anyone in Scotland had any doubts, they won’t anymore.
Ok, the One Nation Tories (previously known as the New Labour Party) still a wee bit of a hurdle, but they’re busy digging their own grave.
Being at the wrong end of the three score years and ten duration I believe that the 16 and 17 year olds have more reason, and arguably, more of a right to vote than me. Unless you believe in reincarnation of course and in which case can i offer my proxy vote to my wee heroine Nicola Sturgeon whilst i’m resting among the clouds?
@scottish_skier
Sorry, never got the chance to say thanks for your comments last time round. Yes I agree re the Tories.
Yip, it’s the One Nation British Labour Party that will try and do damage to Scotland. Sadly, they would rather have English Tory rule in Scotland than us taking control of our own affairs. The colonial mindset is still there.
Just checked the two polls currently running over on the STV site and the Telegraph site. Here’s the latest figures.
STV POLL
I will vote for Independence……………………….89% (294 votes)
I will vote to keep Scotland in the UK…………..7% (24 votes)
I haven’t made my mind up yet……………………2% (8 votes)
I won’t vote in the Independence referendum…1% (4vote)
Telegraph POLL
No………….3,889 votes (48.56%)
YES………. 4,120 votes (51.44%)
Yes folks, even in the unionist heartland of the Telegraph newspaper the Yes vote is beginning to stretch out in front.
As far as the STV vote is concerned the YES vote appears to be stretching out from 10 to 1 IN FAVOUR to now almost 12 to 1 IN FAVOUR.
I watched Reporting Scotland’s special edition tonight and they had Douglas Fraser doing a slot on the economic question.
He did a comparison between the Irish and Scottish economies and left a graphic on screen showing that Ireland has a much higher rate of unemployment compared to Scotland.
His final throwaway line was something of the order of, “..and of course there is also Norway”. but no graphics and no economic comparisons and his slot finished immediately. It was a case of here, look at the worst case example. That’ll be us that will.
He did actually mention Norway the BBC will say if anyone complains. Standard BBC bias.
In some ways I thought it wasn’t as bad as usual. My main gripe was that they showed the smaller countries nose-diving faster in the recession, but made no mention of the Icelandic recovery.
There’s plenty time. Everything is under control.
Castle Rock,
Tis better to be a big fish in a small pond….etc.
I suppose we are all war-gaming the possible outcomes of the next few years. For me, there is something deeply depressing about a Labour leadership in Scotland that would be the willing political power in a colony. A tiny bit different from it’s masters in terms of accent and background, but immensely proud of the Empire and always willing to advocate the greater needs of the Empire over the locals.
The history of the fall of the British Empire has been populated by people who thought like that, at least as far back as the Declaration of Independence and immediately thereafter.
I’ll stand corrected but there comes a point in the tide of man when they become the kings with no clothes.
In terms of Westminster power at least: they have become, universally, losers………
This takes a lot of soul searching on my part to say, believe me, but if we fail to take this opportunity to fully take control over our own affairs, it will be worse than Ibrox 1991, last game of the season………
Arb,
There is a web site called Pharyngula, run by a personable chap called P Z Myers.
He is a militant atheist and quite witty with it. He took it upon himself to highlight self reporting polls on the internet about issues that atheists might find a tad contentious.
He has a huge following. I am one of them.
For a while, it was amusing to follow these links and vote for the atheist position. Sometimes the polls were pulled. Sometimes they stood as a testament to the mob – me included – the P Zed had managed to mobilise. We always won.
It is fun, for a while, to see these outcomes, but they are completely unscientific.
I gave up.
I watched the Reporting Scotland programme as we Doug as, like you, was interested in Fraser’s concentration on the “failing of Iceland and Ireland without mentioning Norway at the same time. After all is Norway NOT a small country as well?
As you say Norway did get the briefest of mentions. Boy the very thought of even having to mention Norway must have stuck in Fraser’s craw! He, like many of his comrades is STILL intend on giving the impression that Iceland is a poor and bankrupt wee country.
Who knows, if he dares to read Rev Stu’s site here he might like to take a wee gander at these stories.
link to silverdollareconomy.com
link to americanlivewire.com
link to newsnetscotland.com
I’m sure he’d be grateful for ANY help he can get that will ensure he can get his facts right before standing in front of the cameras to continue giving his half truths an airing!
This is worth a look…
Its about the Norwegian and Irish approach to oil.
Vote Aye for Independence.
They’re not alone. Just watched the first 5 minutes of patronising pish on the Sky News paper review at 9.30. Had to switch off.
There’s an hour long special on STV tonight. The Scotland Tonight programme show will run for an hour. Included in the show will be Alex Salmond, Michael Moore, Blair Jenkins, Margaret Curran, Michael Forsyth,Alex Massey and Colin MacKay.
link to telly.com
For those able to receive STV enjoy!
Nick Robinson just did a bit of ‘creative editing’ in the BBC ten o clock news.
Funny how he made sure that part was cut out about pejoratives like “ripping apart” and how the BBC said it was supposedly stopping them.
BBC Scotland trying to show a modicum of balance tonight, and failing again. It must be a tough ask when all their instincts are pro-Union, of course.
Going down to London and showing most of the interviewees as being “Better Together” was Pravda-esque in its bias, though amusingly so!
What really struck me the most though, was the general call from interviewees for more information about “what independence means for Scotland”. The BBC Scotland lot kept repeating this, too. …
…And there is the elephant in the room right there. The UK MSM.
Is it any wonder that people feel uninformed! `Keep them ignorant for the truth is dangerous`has been the way of the MSM ever since they worked out that a referendum on Scottish independence was actually going to happen.
Resorting to scaremongering, misinformation and downright lies has been the MSM’s default position so far, and is likely to only get worse. The BBC, of course, is a major player in the UK MSM cabal and will be the last to even question the role of the MSM in its continuing role as Union propagandist.
What to do to counter these tools of state control?
Well we can’t wait for the demise of ‘newspapers’, inevitable as that is in about 25 or so years. The BBC will still be in Scotland until 2014. These are powerful propagandists. It’s going to be tough – some of those purveyors of scares and lies will feel they are fighting for their lives, metaphorically speaking, so will, with the aid of the state, inevitably use every dirty trick in, and out of, the book to try and cheat us of our independence.
We will continue to use all kinds of social media, including excellent sites such as this. The Yes campaign will work hard on behalf of independence. But will these things, great as they are, be enough? Maybe. They’ll definitely play a huge part for sure.
However, I believe it will be through sheer hard work by individuals, or groups that independence can, and will be won. People who are prepared to slog it locally, or anywhere, indeed, from door-to-door, talking face-to-face with others be they rich, poor, or anywhere in between. Or leafleting in streets. Or just something as simple as talking to family, friends and colleagues. It may be the only way to let the general population know the truth, the real truth, not the Unionist propaganda that passes as truth from the MSM.
It’s going to have to be a truth and information ‘war’ fought by the people of Scotland for the people of Scotland.
When independence is won, it will be the sweetest of victories over the forces of darkness …
… By the people, for the people.
Polls like link to twtpoll.com are obviously unscientific, however I think they may indicate which side has the greater commitment.
Here’s BBC Scotlandshire’s take on today’s events.
link to bbc.scotlandshire.co.uk
Meanwhile, the Electoral Reform Society have this on their website.
link to electoral-reform.org.uk
Finally in case you missed it, here is the photograph that the unionists tried to hide!
link to facebook.com
I’ll let you decide who the REAL negotiator in these proceedings was.
I should watch STV more often. Mickey Moore being skewered.
I know that all these polls currently going on are only a bit of fun D.C. but, in my view, it does raise one interesting little question.
Where do the “pollsters” get their interviewees from for these weekly polls that appear in the MSM?
After all no one is being confronted in the street over these two polls and yet the figures still point to something “fishy” going on in the weekly polls that say only 33% want Independence, all be it that they also say 33% want more powers and 33% want the status quo. At the end of the day there is only ONE poll that really matters and that will NOT happen until 2014. However, by “participating” in these wee “pretendy” polls I think it gives the Bitter camp supporters a wee bit more than a bit of a headache to worry about.
By putting up the updates on the two polls STV and Telegraph I thought it would give every one a wee bit of a laugh concerning THESE figures as opposed to the MSM “doctored” polls.
Ha, ha Alistair Darling has just denied he is leading the No campaign! Won’t call it that.
I should watch STV more often. Mickey Moore being skewered.
OK folks, whose turn is it to fire up the barbie then?
Plenty drink inside “The Darkened Room” we just need to know who is in charge of the barbie. We can’t let this skewering go uncelebrated!
Hang on Muttley.
If Alastair Darling is NOT leading the NO campaign, then who the hell is?
Don’t tell me it is Lamont, PLEASE don’t tell me that?
Margaret Curran is on STV right now!
“devolution will be killed stone dead”
So that’s what she’s offering?
No, she said if we vote yes, devolution will be killed stone dead. Alex Salmond will kill devolution.
What is she smoking?
Michael Forsyth is on next!
Arb, No what I mean is, Kirsty Wark, (I see nothing wrong with being a known Labour supporter and going on holiday with Jack McConnell), asked him if he was the leader of the No campaign and he replied along the lines of “No, its called Better together!” You could not make up what the unionists are coming out with.
The adverts are good! I quite fancy a trip on the Jackobite Train!
Morag,
She said that if we win independence, devolution will be dead! Bloody hell!
The adverts are interesting Glasgow 2014.
Is that Michael Forsyth?
What an odd haircut.
He just said he’d vote yes to an independent Scotland and no to breaking up Britain, but of course Scotland is already an independent country, independent within the UK.
He’s nuts, but he’s still smarter than Cameron.
Michael Forsyth has just said that we are delaying the referendum. Why am I more interested in why he can’t shave properly?
Because he hadn’t nothing to say?
Jackie Baillie and Ruth Davidson on Newsnicht for the union.
Patrick Harvie and Derek Mackay on for the YES team.
Oh and don’t forget they’ve managed to drag John Curtice into this panel discussion as well.
Phew.
Some intelligent young people, maybe….
Oh! No!
Braveheart!
Switched.
And Jackie is there! Yeugh!
Jackie Baillie has agreed that 16 year olds should be allowed to vote. Patrick Harvie very good.
Ruthie is nauseating.
Ruth on now!
New powers! Tranché!
We are ace!
@douglas clark
He’s trying for what’s called a “Mr Burns” v fashionable
Oh my God, Brewer is a disaster. The STV presenter did a decent job. Brewer is an embarrassment.
Jackie,
Putting the idea of independence in the past tense!
Jackie Baillie will spell out their ideas before the referendum is guaranteed.
I’m confused.
Jackie Baillie says YES to 16/17 year olds getting the vote but she claims that it is illegal for those under 16 to have their names, addresses and ages published in the voters register.
Excuse me for being stupid here but if your are UNDER 16 then you will NOT be voting therefore your name etc will NOT be on the voters register.
I think she’s been smoking the same “stuff” as Margaret Curran!
Well, thanks to anyone that watched, here we are with a daguerrotype of Alec Salmond.
Cheers folks, that’s what they’ve got.
Where is the party in 2014?
OT, but I just saw the weirdest comment on a Herald letter – the one about history teaching.
As a supporter of independence I cannot support Mr Toms more. How would the people of Scotland have gained if Wallace had won? Feudal overlords are feudal overlords and the peasants, dare I say plebs, would not have noticed much difference. The debate must elevate.
“If Wallace had won”? Who is this guy? Wallace won, in just the same way that any soldier or general who was killed before the successful conclusion of a war, “won”.
Sorry, I’m still stunned by the depth of the ignorance of that statement. He knows nothing of 1314, or 1320, or 1328 – for God’s sake, if he’s a sample, maybe we are “too stupid”.
Well, I have never tried simultaneous commentary in my life before. It was, quite a lot, ragged, around the edges.
You, my friends, could do that sort of thing a damn sight better.
It is fun to try.
Excuse me for being stupid here but if your are UNDER 16 then you will NOT be voting therefore your name etc will NOT be on the voters register.
Presumably the register is published before the date of the poll, so if everyone who will be 16 by polling day is on it, then some of them will be 15 when it is published. I’m sure it’s not beyond the wit of man to come up with a solution to this.
There’s a degree of pure nastiness in a lot of the unionist rhetoric. OK we’ll let you allow 16-year-olds to vote. Hah, gotcha, we’ll prevent them going on the electoral register. We win! It’s playground stuff, and extremely unedifying.
I noticed that when Blair Jenkins was first asked a question, it was about what the defining issues of the referendum would be. He answered it straight, without adding anything to push the YES side. Magrit was asked the same question, and launched into a Bitter Together rant.
The presenter kept going on about the SNP, and Jenkins had to keep saying that he wasn’t an SNP member, but his personal view was as follows.
I think I’m seeing a pattern here.
I thought Blair Jenkins was superb on Scotland Tonight. Thoughtful, articulate, reasonable and very convincing. I think this guy is a real find for the YES campaign. Michael Forsyth and Margaret Curran were also stars, bless ’em!
Sorry, I’m still stunned by the depth of the ignorance of that statement. He knows nothing of 1314, or 1320, or 1328 – for God’s sake, if he’s a sample, maybe we are “too stupid”.
With respect to Wallace you can add 1297 to your list Morag. The battle of Stirling Bridge was WON by him in 1297 before he was ratted out to the English by Sir John Monteith.
link to information-britain.co.uk
That’s not what I’m talking about. You can win battles and still lose the war. Wallace won some battles, and lost some battles, and he was killed. So was Andrew de Moray, of course. The war, however, was won, and they were instrumental in winning it.
You could say it was won in 1314, the date of the final military victory, or in 1320, the date of the declaration of independence, or 1328, the date of the final peace treaty. It was not won in 1297 by any definition of the word “win”.
I remember giving the Wallace address at his memorial at Smithfield in 1995, on the anniversary of his death which is the English August bank holiday and that is no coincidence. Down the road, veterans were celebrating VJ Day. (Note to Cameron, they were celebrating the 50th anniversary of the END of the bloody war.) I took issue with a recent academic paper that had characterised Wallace as “dying a failure”. I suggested that this author should go down to Hyde Park and tell the war veterans there that every one of their colleagues who had not lived to see the day they were celebrating had “died a failure” and see how he was received.
The important point in the end is, who won the war? Wallace won the war. What he did in 1297 contributed to that victory, just as the Battle of Britain contributed to VE Day, but the Battle of Britain was not victory, and nor was Stirling Bridge.
I thought Blair Jenkins was superb on Scotland Tonight. Thoughtful, articulate, reasonable and very convincing. I think this guy is a real find for the YES campaign. Michael Forsyth and Margaret Curran were also stars, bless ‘em!
Agreed. I think we’re going to win this, but we have to play the long game and play it very carefully. Bitterness and negativity, and harking back to past glories that never really were, is all they’ve got. It’s beatable.
You heard Magrit. Blair phrased it very well. He said we’re a net contributor to the UK. It forced Magrit to say, no, we’re not, we’re poor and dependent. Nobody wants to hear that. It’s also not true. As Blair said, we have plenty time to look at the verified figures and see what the real position is.
I do fear for the debate, though. I realise I’m deliberately avoiding media articles and debate about the subject dearest to my heart, because I know in advance that the whole thing will be nothing but lies, distortions, personal insult and scaremongering. I know that the pro-independence speakers will be challenged and belittled by the presenter, who will pretty much make the Bitter Together case for them. I know the unionists will be allowed to spout their lies unchallenged.
This is not healthy. Will I ever come home, looking forward to a debate, knowing that it’s going to be on a level playing field?
Sorry to upset you D.C. but here’s the latest figures for the Scotland on Sunday poll.
YES 1584 votes (72%)
NO 611 (28%)
Awe Hell here’s the latest on the STV and Telegraph as well.
STV POLL
I will vote for Independence……………………….89% (365 votes)
I will vote to keep Scotland in the UK…………..7% (30 votes)
I haven’t made my mind up yet……………………2% (10 votes)
I won’t vote in the Independence referendum…1% (5vote)
Telegraph POLL
No………….4,245 votes (47.63%)
YES………. 4,667 votes (52.37%)
As I’ve said before there is only ONE vote that counts but hey these are THREE “straw” polls from THREE different MSM sites and ALL three show that support for Independence is AHEAD of the No camp. I’m nor sure but I don’t think I’ve ever seen such a level of consistency amongst MSM “straw” polls before.
The BIG thing for me will be when we see the next round of MSM “organised” polls from the various polling companies. I have a feeling that THESE polls might, for the FIRST time start to show a definite change in favour of the YES camp.
That is actually an interesting phenomenon. Every time there is a free-for-all online poll, independence wins by a mile. (The Torygraph one is odd because there are a lot of Little Englander unionists there but there are also a lot of “cut these scrounging Jocks loose” nutters there too.)
Is it simply that people who are online a lot are more pro-independence? Or that independence supporters have better viral techniques dredging up votes? Or could it be that in a poll like that, where it doesn’t matter at all, completely anonymous and never going to be taken seriously, people vote with their hearts?
Scottish Skier may have a view on this.
Morag, I think to be honest us Cybernats never miss the opportunity of a good poll.
The No Scotland poll is still running: http://noscotland.net/
Should Scotland leave the UK?
Yes 89.92%
No 10.08%
While over on Yes Scotland Blair Jenkins has this to say on his blog:
“It’s a fact that eight of the top 10 wealthiest nations in the world have populations of fewer than eight million people. The five wealthiest nations are smaller than Scotland. Currently Scotland has 8.4% of the UK population and we get 9.3% of UK spending. What most people don’t know is we generate 9.6% of UK taxes. If we paid just 9.3% of UK taxes then the basic rate of income tax in Scotland could be 5p lower.”
His full blog entry can be read here:
link to yesscotland.net
Morag, I think to be honest us Cybernats never miss the opportunity of a good poll.
In that case, or online dominance is so totally overwhelming we should be able to blow them away.
Jeez I’d forgotten about that one Adrian.
I think it is interesting that the figures from the No Scotland site continue to show a trend that is currently seen in the poll results I posted earlier. I have just added the actual number of votes to your earlier post Adrian to show the size of votes cast.
YES…..89.92% (3,158 votes)
NO …..10.08% (354 votes)
it’s not just about the BBC though, important though it is domestically:
“Scotland, though poorer than England and subsidised by London, thinks it could manage better on its own by harnessing offshore oil and gas reserves.”
link to uk.reuters.com
who writes this stuff…..someone out of touch, misinformed and behind the times…..or some Bitter Together schill?
SAOR ALBA!!!
Arb,
I too, will be fascinated by what proper polls tell us over the coming months. One of the many points that Scottish Skier has made is that now the Devo Max option is unavailable, how will that element of the electorate split? I will be gobsmacked if it doesn’t break at least 70:30 for independence.
This thing is definitely winnable. The last few weeks have been amongst the best, politically, in my whole life. For the first time ever I think we might have a real chance of throwing Westminster into the Thames.
Y’know what Arb? There is cause and effect. Now you have told me about these polls I’m away to vote YES in all of them: just because some people will be influenced by them. I suppose that is cheating, but what the heck?
If I can get off my arse to contradict the assumptions of the minor US media that a poll, for fucks sake, determines whether God exists or not, then I can do something similar on the secular level. P Z Meyers fans swamped these polls to the extent that they don’t seem to appear very often nowadays. See here:
link to scienceblogs.com
They are all in places where the assumption has been made that asking a question would get the push poller the answer they wanted.
Destroying that relationship, I am thinking about the Telegraph in particular, and it’s madder unionists who seem to believe Alan Cochrane is not a well paid Cassandra, to put it politely – is, perhaps worthwhile. The less cosy they are with the idea – that their readers are sheep, or believe a word they write – then, perhaps, the better it is for us.
Others have said that Blair Jenkins was superb. IMHO that is a bit of an understatement.
What I can’t figure out in all the discussions about polls, is why none of those holding forth about them seem to be able to understand that saying support for independence is “only” around a third, never go on to say that support for the status quo is ALSO around a third. The impression is always given (whether intentionally or not) that if “only” a third support independence, then two thirds (or at least two thirds minus some undecided voters) must be opposed.
Listening and watching the coverage of the “Edinburgh Agreement”, it struck me that the YES camp should be careful to stress at every available opportunity that at present, the numbers in the opposing camps are roughly equal…. it is the uncommitted third who will decide the outcome, and what the NO campaign need to be skewered on is how they will satisfy the desire for devo-max / FFA.
Every time an advocate of a NO vote starts going on about “we need the details… whaddabout NATO/EU/Euro” etc., it should be pointed out that they are just as obligated to explain what the result of voting NO will be.
D.C. I was thinking last night, a VERY rare occurrence I might add, about how the regular polls are conducted and the “correction factors”, sorry I can’t remember what S.S. calls them, that are used to get the final”results” of the polls.
As far as I can see ALL the polling firms generally poll people about voting in General Elections consequently they factor in aspects of their lives that would give an indication of their background etc and use this to “adjust the overall poll result. I know they also poll for Holyrood elections but as we all know they NEVER get close to the right result here because they use their Westminster factors on a Scottish election.
I think THIS is a possible reason for why, in my opinion, they polls have never shift that much from the 33%/33%/33% ratio of YES/NO/Don’t Know’s. The pollsters are using a General Election adjustment factor in a poll that has absolutely NOTHING to do with a G.E. hence their figures, in my view, could very well be screwed by a big margin. These polling organisations don’t have any adjustment factors for polls on Independence because they have probably NEVER conducted polls like this before. Unfortunately for the pollsters G.E. adjustment factors do NOT work on polls about Independence.
I too have found it interesting Galen that the MSM/BBC/Unionists only ever claim that there is a 33% in favour of Independence. Unfortunately for them, the unionists, the argument they use about only a third in favour of Independence also works AGAINST them as well. I am just a wee bit surprised that this fact is never thrown back at them. You’ve also hit the nail on the head with your last comment as well. The unionists seem quite happy to push the YES camp for “more details” but seem rather bereft of ideas of how to produce “more details” of the result of a NO vote. How does the old saying go….
What’s good for the goose is good for the gander!