Against a brick wall
As readers will know, when professional broadcast journalists can’t or won’t do their jobs properly, we’re not above jumping in ourselves.
So when someone tweeted to tell us that Jim Murphy had just started a phone-in on London station LBC, it seemed an ideal opportunity to quickly ring up and try directly asking him the question that Scottish Labour really, really don’t want to answer.
Here’s what happened.
It’s gratifying to see Murphy struck silent for a few seconds immediately after I got to ask him whether Labour would be prepared to form a government if it wasn’t the largest party in a hung parliament, at which point sympathetic Tory blogger Iain Dale leaps in to give him a nice long bit of extra thinking time.
But it’s to no avail, as Murphy simply falls back into his default lie – that the biggest party always forms the government and it can never ever be otherwise, because it was that way in the past. Murphy then continually talks over the top of me to prevent me pressing the point, and then the producer came on the line and told me that they were out of time and cut me off.
I’m pretty low in the mix on the video stream, and annoyingly technical gremlins beset my own recording, so the above is as good as it gets. Murphy’s answer is dismal and flatly untrue, but in the weak position of a phone-in guest there’s very little I can do about it. I can’t shout over him, and he knows that if he just keeps talking and takes up enough time, he’ll get away with it.
A professional TV or radio presenter with an extended interview slot can challenge Murphy a lot better than I can. I gave it my best shot. Over to you, media.
Brilliant – look at his wee face
Try the same question with a few of his colleagues.
Could be interesting.
Would you be prepared to be in Opposition – yet again – rather than in Government with the support of the SNP.
He’s a bit silly not to use the truth which is also a get out of jail card.
It isn’t his decision to make, it’s UKLabour policy wonks & ultimately Ed M.
Murphy has no real power, he is/was a back bench MP that is all.
A very good illustration of why ordinary people cannot directly hold politicians to account: they have a platform and we do not
Well done for trying, Rev, but he has control of the microphone controls the information
If the last time was in the 1920s then no matter how long ago it was, it clearly can be done. Simples.
You did a good job, Stu! Just watching the Smurph squirm was entertainment enough
There you go, Stuart. Because you live in Bath it’s a Labour/Tory thing. Eh???
You really got to him there. He was completely thrown until he got back onto script.
That was pretty painfully amusing
Simple, if rhetorical question.
Why was he on LBC when he is campaigning of “Scottish” Labour.
Why is he appearing in Bolton of QT.
Belt and Braces Murphy is knitting himself a lifebuoy?
He just cant help himself. Its a lie everyone is now aware of but still he persists. He did his usual shout over the top but your point made him yet again peddle the nonsense. Nice one.
East Renfrewshire constituents might well ask why he is doing a local radio phone-in programme in the London area rather than in Scotland. He will, I suppose, get a much more supportive audience down there for his right wing ideas. Perhaps he has been getting too hard a time of it in Scotland of late and is trying to get his fluency back up to speed without having to re-think the sense of his policies?
Liar liar! pants on fire and he can feel the heat. I think you shot his fox there right at the start. What a fraud what a phoney.
Dim Jim and untruthful Jim.
Brilliant. His face was a picture – Guernica.
nice one Stu i havnt laughed so much in ages
Do you think he twigged it was you? I think maybe he did. There was a definite wariness there…
The first rule in an adversarial contest is – Know your enemy!!!
I’m astounded he hadn’t a clue who you were. He certainly knows’ what WoS is.
The man is a complete and utter FUD and clearly lacks the intelligence to be an MP let alone hold senior public office. As I’ve said before he’s a compulsive liar and a sociopath of the first order.
So just how would the Tories win a vote of confidence? Probably with Labour voting with them!
I’m really looking forward to May 8th
He genuinely didn’t seem to know Stu from Bath is Wings.. How strange.
Damn good effort old chap. Jim said “But that would never happen” – except it IS happening, all the polls have been showing it happening for months. Absent some public catastrophe that sees the SNP vote plummet, or Labour miraculously grab 50 unexpected seats in England, the situation come May 8th will be as exactly as you describe in the call.
Which means you’ll have documented – to a fault, from the outset – a deliberate and unconstitutional lie.
And we won’t be letting them – or voters – forget that any time soon.
He just comes across as SO untrustworthy.
We had local tradesman in house today, in East Ren, who told us a few years ago he went to see Murphy as he was concerned about a development next door to where he stays. Murphy as part of the chat passed a comment that he was also a “time-served joiner himself”!
He just seems to say whatever he thinks will ingratiate himself even though it’s a lie. Problem is everyone is seeing right through him.
(Interestingly the development went ahead anyway…)
Well done Stu, just watched the whole thing live. Don’t know if you’ve ever been fishing and caught an eel – if not this is good practise.
What folks might not have caught, and it’s not on your clip, was that Murphy didn’t know it was live streamed. He was pulling faces throughout the first half of the broadcast and smirking as a caller described widows being asset rich and cash poor, through the loss of their husbands ( this was before Stu’s bit ).
After the commercial break – the presenter announced the interview was being live screened in HD. Murphy went bright red and complained ” you should have alerted me to that”.
Caught rotten!
Looks and sounds sincere on TV, only sounds sincere on radio.
Pretty much the response I’ve predicted.
He knows if he just keeps talking sooner or later the other person will give up first. It really gets my goat!
Just when you think he couldn’t crawl any lower than a snake’s belly, he does.
So when Lab refuse to form a gov with SNP support, he will say – that’s what we have been saying all along, biggest party etc.
The supine MSM/BBC will back them up.
Murphy makes my skin crawl. don’t know if he realised he was being filmed as well but what a sleazy character
Poor Jim,feeling safe in London and he’s ambushed. No hiding place for the Smurphy. Still not got the idea of real time internet, TV etc. Smurphy is an intellectual donkey. That pleases me.
I am quite alarmed.
Mr Murphy appears to sincerely believe that Mr Cameron will not step down if he loses a vote of confidence in the HOC.
He is predicting a coup. And it seems he does not see anything wrong with that.
Why not call his bluff? Say the results were 280 for the Tories and 285 for labour? Then labour ARE the biggest party but would still need the support of the SNP to form a minority government…
Fantastic, Stuart from Bath!
Great to see him squirm for a change. He really is determined to keep peddling that lie. He is a total zoomer
Incredible the audacity of the man.
It really does beggar belief.
Roll on May 7th and let’s show these losers that career politics is no longer on the agenda.
Let’s make democracy work for the people.
It’s obvious … to anyone with even a couple of live brain cells .. that it’s all in the tense. As Jimbo fine well knows, “The largest party GETS TO form the government” implies current (and therefore implicitly to be applied) protocol. Which is a lie, as we all know.
At some point, someone in Labour will have to say “The largest party has usually GOT TO form the government in the past”. Except for the last time it didn’t.
Keep it coming, Jim. If Labour are going to continue to lie, they’re going to have to get a whole lot better at it … but that takes intelligence. Not a commodity in surplus, apparently.
Looks like you’re ‘on the list’ Rev the way he got his piece of paper our as soon as “Stuart from Bath” was mentioned
OT just to report Alex’s book signing at the George Hotel in Edinburgh is absolutely mobbed.
What was on the piece of paper that Big Dim Jim pulled out of his pocket?
Credit where credit’s due .. it was very helpful of him to point out that “you couldn’t vote for the SNP if you live in Bath, as the SNP only contest seats in Scotland”.
Bet you didn’t know that!
David Cameron won’t let us? Absolutely pathetic. Well done Stu.
so labour are not prepared to do the vote thing salmons said and cause the no confidence thing? Says it all really.
I think people need to start countering this “how many times since 1924?” pish from Murphy by asking him how many hung parliaments there has been since then.
There can’t have been more than what three? So it’s hardly a pattern. The biggest party has won in every election going back that far almost always because they’ve had a majority so hung parliament unwritten rules don’t even come in to it.
Good effort though.
Everyone should be pressing every Labour person on this. Ask Stu’s question or even try this: “You insist that the biggest party WILL form the goverment even if it has no overall majority. Does that mean Labour WON’T join the SNP in voting against a Tory Queen’s Speech?”
@Tom Platt
Maybe he was actually attending to parlimentary business. Tried to type that without a chuckle!
I honestly thought the smoke was going to start belching from his head phones. He had a long hard think before he went into autopish mode, but during that short interlude, you could see the anger. I think he sussed who you were Stu, but failed to say anything and reverted to the usual jibberish.
How does the Tory party stop a Labour government that has the support of the SNP?
@ Rev at least you tried, he knew who was on the line from the start.
I’m absolutely shocked.
He didn’t know who “Stuart from Bath” was?
Classic ambush Stuart. This social media thing is quite awkward for mainstream politics is it not? It’s come to a fine thing when the leader of SLAB can’t go on a London radio show without some Jock calling in and asking him awkward questions.
Aw naw. PMSL.Away to change.
What was the camp/creepy/Mcavenniesque shuffle when he ‘realised’ he was being shown live?
And was that a ‘use in case of Wings’ emergency cribsheet he pulled as he realised his nemesis was on the phone?
Wings 1 Leader of Labour branch office in
Scotland 0
I’m BATH SPArtacus!*
*Stu’s new nickname
@ David Mooney:
“The man is a complete and utter FUD”
Forgetful Under Duress?
Fuckin’ Useless Demagogue?
File Under “Doomed…”?
@Paula Rose
Was wondering the same thing, pulled it right after the presenter said Stuart from Bath. I’m guessing it’s a labour standard guidance note on how to deal with vile Wings man
@ Paula Rose
The army…?
I can never understand that it is somehow used as proof that the largest party always forms the government, when it was done in 1924. Eh, is this not proof that it can happen, albeit, rarely?
The last hung parliament was in the 1920’s following on from the last goverment formed by the second largest party as Mr Murphy points out. That was right up Until 2010 when there was another hung parliament. Is that correct and if so surely a journalist could point that out; just because something hasn’t happened for a while doesn’t mean it won’t happen, does it?
@ Paula Rose
It can’t.
But the biggest opposition party gets to support the biggest party to make its lies come true. Well, some of its lies. Not the one about “Cameron won’t let us”, of course. But the one about the biggest party. That is what “gets to” means. It is not about the tense, it is about the idiom. Like a parent saying whether you get to stay up late or not.
Well done Rev., It threw him.
I think he does know it was Stu, but there is no way he would acknowledge that.
He did know it was being filmed, as I saw that on another link where the guy said it was being live streamed.
Thanks for giving it a try Rev, I think he twigged quite quickly exactly who you were and what you represented. Surely nobody in Labour is that dim?
Jim Murphy needs his own half hour slot on local radio in Scotland every day of the week between now and the election.
The more that Scots see/hear of him the lower the support for Labour will be. McTernan should have his own half hour slot too but that would be just too much to hope for.
@ blind squirrel
IIRC there have been three since universal suffrage and the biggest party did form the government in all three cases. I think there were 4 if you include 1924, so the incidence of a smaller party forming the government goes from 0 to 25% of the time. Statistics are wonderful, ain’t they?
Nice try.
Obviously he tries all his usual tricks to avoid answering – notably the one that worked well for him on Scotland 2015 recently, where he asks ‘when was the last time that happened? ‘ and forces the questioner on to the spot. When you leapt that hurdle he says’ exactly right’ and moves onto the next tactic of denial and talking over everyone else.
He really is an interesting masterclass in evasion methods, especially by dominating the conversation. I think it would take two or three well informed well trained people at the same time to get anywhere with him.
BUTwhile his answers may not be forthcoming, the fact that he doesn’t answer is glaringly obvious and that speaks for itself.
At least people listening got the opportunity to hear some criticism and listen to him avoid the question. That’s something, so well done.
He has in his hand a piece of paper…
Incidentally, is it usual in phone ins for the guest to be asking the questions of those who phone in? Cos that is what happened here
He knew alright but mentioning Wings Over Scotland to an English audience wouldn’t have been that wise. They might find this site and get educated!
You let him off the hook too easily but we all know Miliband would fall over himself to be PM idle they are not the largest part y in a hung parliament. If he doesn’t do some kind of deal it is Labour who would keep Cameron in No 10.
good work, but painful to watch….
This is driving me crazy. As the Rev suggests, an extended interview with the right interviewer (is there one?) would easily nail this lie. But there seems no willingness to make this happen from any source.
And that is absolutely disgraceful.
For a moment there, Stu, Murphy was on the ropes. And it was great to watch. Had you been given the chance I think you would have floored him but not for the first time, he wriggled off the hook.
Like others have expressed on this site it angers me that we are unable to address the systematic lie telling embedded in Murphy’s personality, especially on this biggest party nonsense.
Right. I’m off to throw myself in the village pond.
OT: BBC Reporting Scotland tonight Tim Reid reported in saying that Callaghan said that SNP brought his government down. The lie that will never go away.
Sorry to go OT, but just want to share a wee moment with you all. My English born and bred 17 year old son is up in his bedroom with his saltire and rampant lion round his neck, playing Flower of Scotland and singing in his heart our before the match!
It’s brought a wee tear to my eye.
C’mon Scotland!
I think you have an exclusive there Stu. At the very end Jim has clearly guarenteed “If David Cameron’s is the biggest party, there is no way on earth we will allow Labour to form the government”(3:06).
I think somebody should tell Ed Milliband… Then again, Ed probably knows that Jim talks shite.
You could see the cogs go round like a stick stuck in a box of broken bricks.Then i thought he was pulling out an empty pack of space raiders to pour some uhu into.
Lie just sounded more ridiculous than ever.
Going on about how David Cameron would never ‘on earth’ give up power while never explaining once (not that he could, because it isn’t possible) how it is that Cameron would have any choice in the matter if he couldn’t scramble together 326 votes (or 323 or whatever once Sinn Fein ones are taken off).
Jim, man, it’s blatant and you just look like a fool carrying on with it.
BtP is right. Murphy is covering his bases in London and in Bolton tomorrow. It’s the House of Lords get-out clause should he be defeated in May.
And what’s the odds of Dimbleby intervening to say ‘the biggest party gets to form the Government’ tomorrow night on QT?
Odds on.
I repeat what I said yesterday, Labour will not form a government if they need SNP support. I really hope I am wrong in the reading of their collective comments.
The ‘biggest party’ tripe is their get-out of jail free card.
Yes, it will be the end of Labour in Scotland, and might even cause a second election, but Murphy’s sly looks tells me that’s the plan.
He’s the carpetbagger we all know.
Okay, Murphy, if Labour don’t quite get the majority needed, even by one seat, what is Labour’s Plan B?
Fiona says:
25 March, 2015 at 7:04 pm
@ blind squirrel
Black Swan time, or Black Squirrel may be a better metaphor.
So the piece of paper said “DO NOT MENTION WINGS OVER SCOTLAND”. (sniggle)
O/T
I may be behind the news here as I’ve been stuck in London all day but have you heard that the dirty tricks brigade have been out in Glasgow East. Shettleston SNP found the hub’s locks glued when they arrived to open up this morning. Mags Curran is this your doing?
Local traders helped out anyway & a volunteer soon had the locks drilled out & replaced in no time.
Nothing stops SNP not even the branch office of London Labour
Next question – Do you think whoever the Scottish electorate mandate to represent its interests at Westminster is a threat to democracy in the UK? Y’know considering they might just put your boss in office.
I had to stop myself from laughing in order to type this message. The ‘poor’ wee eejit would have happily allowed himself to be swallowed up by the ground if he could have been. Rev Stuart, you are worse than a Jack Russell; I applaude you no end!!!! Thank you for making my day!
O/T
Visited Waterstones bookshop in Glasgow today. AS book is in prominent display. I asked lady how it was going and was told well!
Bought a coffee and cake, “Eton Mess”. remarked to the lad that it was the government. Received a smile.
Enjoying life now.
Hi Paula Rose.
I have it on good authority (my fevered imagination), that what was on the bittie paper was,
“DO NOT MENTION WINGS OVER SCOTLAND OR I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS”
8=)
Fiona @ 7:06
Yes, noticed that. A common tactic of Mr Murphy’s (and of David Cameron’s when it’s meant to be PM’s Questions too, but I digress).
Some interviewer or caller somewhere is going to have to retort with ‘right, Jim, I’ll ask the questions, ok?’. Aside from anything else, that’s probably make him go radgey, which would be a laugh.
Probably with a “J McT” signature…
That was hilarious. The look on his face as he tried to work out how to get it back onto his prepared lines, and then when it suddenly clicked with him which “Stuart from Bath” you were and he thought “ahh, I’ve got this one, I’m really clever.”
Shame he isn’t clever. Certainly not clever enough to push his line without telling an actual fib. “Gets to form” and “has always formed” are not the same thing, but it’s incredible how easily and blatantly he lies.
Is’it somewhat bewildering that the M.S.M (B.B.C.) are currently continualy broadcasting that to vote S.N.P allows either David Cameron or Ed. Milliband to be Prime Minister and that Alex Salmond will be King Maker. Alex Salmond is currently standing for a Parliament Seat AND has not been elected yet. What is going on??
My understanding is that a Lab-Lib coalition in 2010 came very close.
The rules say the ruling party gets first go a forging a deal to get enough votes. lab and Lib talked. It was all agreed in theory, and part of that deal was Brown should stand down immediately.
Then the Libs got a phone call saying Brown had changed his mind and wanted to stay for six months or so, against the draft agreement.
The ba’ wis on the slate, the game a boggey. The Libs walked away and talked to Cameron.
EVERYONE in Labour must know this!
Good try Stu, had a wee chuckle at his face before he recovered into autopoliticopishpilot mode. However, where is that presenter who will press him under the full glare of the camera lights until he either gives an answer or hangs himself in fromt of the public by waffling the same line over and over again. Brewer could and so could Neil but I ain’t gonna hold my breath.
Jim was in London today giving a speech to some big hitters in the City. He didn’t go down too well so I’m told
I got a Labour leaflet for East Dunbarton, it had a Q&A section you could return with or without a stamp? Anyway I could not resist answers suitably altered and now posted back to Labour sub-branch office, oh forgot the stamp. Name CLaude Balls e-mail R.Stornaway, Address 164 Corstorpine Road EH12 6TS.
The Postie will get a laugh at this!
P.S. 164 is Edinburgh Zoo!
Nice one Stu. The best way to catch murphy is ask him, would labour be prepared to form a government if they were the LARGEST party with 286 (Tory 285) and they needed 45 SNP to have an overall majority? OR would labour sit back and allow a Tory plus lib alliance again?
You have grit Reverend, true grit.
What a creep that man is.
If I only had the choice of Tory or Jim Murphy to vote for I would vote Tory. And that would be a first ever.
brilliant stuff – amazing to watch the fantasist in action and the mental wheels turning as he panicked and rummaged for his lucky pencil.. -he really thinks he can get away with saying anything he likes south of the Watford gap and no one in Scotland will notice… I do hope Miliband was listening and would love to have seen McTernan’s face.
You got the question out there which is the main thing – there have got to be a few enterprising journos around who still have a spine and who might consider asking it again what with TV debate season coming up… all the radio phone in producers must be getting very nervous as there are lots of us out there( shall we arrange a rota). Thank you Stu for reminding all of us of the power of the well placed question…
Bravo, Stuart from Bath.
Labour are going to lay down, so as the Tories can win? They are not going to have a confidence and supply arrangement with SNP?
Jim, why the Irn-Bru tour to keep Scotland, in this crapiest union of unions and then deny the people of Scotland their democratic voice?
Explain your reasoning and that of your masters in London, for you are not your own master.
Beedeeteetee – he did leave in enough paragraph breaks (smiley winky thingy).
Perhaps the Cons and Lab have already done a secret deal where they will not allow the SNP to be instrumental in voting down a democratically elected rUK government. If they both become almost irrelevant to Scottish politics, then that is something else they will have in common.
@ galamcennalath,
Yes that’s my understanding, that the Lib Dems were prepared to go into coalition with Labour, as they were more natural bed-fellows than the Tories, but that they insisted that part of the deal was that Gordon Brown would step down.
Gordon Brown refused to step down, so we got David Cameron and George Osborne.
Priceless! Do you think he actually doesn’t understand how it works?
He tippled it was the Rev just after saying he couldn’t vote for the SNP in Bath.
One question he can answer, nay is obliged to answer is ..
Would you vote down the Tories in a confidence motion, if they are the biggest fucking party ( & if your still in a position to do so obviously) ?
The bit of paper he gets out, is the visual equivalent of an S & M safe word btw.
Jim the ‘S’, to the media g!mps M. Thems the rules for access !
Looks like Jimbo was trying not to let on he knew fine well who Stu from Bath actually is, (don’t mention the website Jim) but still assumed he was not a Lab voter. See even idiots get some things right, sometimes. sniggle, sniggle
Well Done Rev Stu.
You did get Fud Murphy to say right on the end that there was no way that Cameron would give up office if Tories won the most seats
You have it! If SNP could put Labour into 10 Downing St, he has said that they wouldn’t go in!
If the opportunity arises and they do allow the Blue Tories
to stay in government. They really can pack their bags and leave Scotland forever! Result.
If they work with SNP, we would need to point out to Smurph and Labour that he has been caught lying yet again, as he promised they wouldn’t do this.
Result. Dim Jim tried and tested proven liar and his word means nothing!
He would be in London to gather the North British Labour Accounting Units funds from Westminster.
Well done Stu. Not the easiest of things to do. Especially when it is not a fair contest when they have power over the sound and mic. I’ll bet he knows now who Stu from Bath is now. You are an example and more of us should get on the media and challenge the lies. You have also shared this with thousands on Wings and the Media who are monitoring the site.
It was telling that when the Rev said ‘you know that’s not true Jim’ Murphy responded by asking a question about the last time the biggest party didn’t form a government.
He had to do this as giving a straight/honest answer would have destroyed his whole campaign strategy, and telling a straightforward lie, would have not allowed him the ‘wriggle room’ that he is expert at creating for himself.
Murphy asked the last time the biggest party didn’t form the government, ignoring the fact that in the two horse race that is normal Westminster politics, it is rare to not have a Party that wins a clear majority.
The question is: when was the last time there wasn’t an over-all majority at Westminster?
A. 2010 and it that time Jim Murphy was at the forefront of demanding that Labour try to form the government, even though they weren’t the biggest party.
Is this type of campaigning working for Labour and Jim Murphy?
His falling ‘personal satisfaction ratings’, strongly suggest they are not, and that people are sick of his lies and evasion.
My heart felt advice to him is: Keep it up Jim, yer doing a great job…for the SNP!
Who imagines that David Cameron would step back from forming a Government with marginally fewer Tory seats than Labour seats, if they possibly could? Of course he wouldn’t and neither would Ed Miliband.
I remember reading somewhere that Jim raises his right eyebrow when he is stressed …I do believe I saw that wee eyebrow go up
Yea he knew who it was and what he was about to be asked didnt help him though lol
Hey Jim let me explain to you how things work ,you are a politician you answer the questions not ask them ,failure to do this will lead to mass mockery by us,so why dont you just admit it because we are not going to stop asking until you do lol
Poor Jim down south thinking it will be a nice wee easy number on the radio then out the blue cybernat central command ambush him or as we know him the Rev ,there isnt a big enough rock for you to hide under from us jimmy boy you just got winged lmao i cant stop chuckling at this
Not a good performance Rev, imo, but only due to the reasons already stated by you in the article above and due to Dim Jims usual inability to answer straightforward questions.
As for his confused facial expressions – i believe he was thinking something along the lines of the name ‘Stuart from Bath’ has a familiarity about it, throw in your Scottish accent and Dim Jim was total bamboozled.
I definitely believe he never had a Scooby who you were until he went off air but he was certainly very wary and nervous. He was also constantly looking across to his fellow Tory (presenter) looking for some form of help.
His piece of paper was just a crutch he reached for as soon as he heard the Scottish accent and his flight mode kicked in. Up to that point he was as happy as a pig in shite fooling all those thick Londoners, at least, that’s what he was thinking.
The LBC thing could be due to a number of reasons, not least of all an attempt to make him look bigger and more important than he really is because he’s been rumbled up here.
Nicola has been down there giving speeches and taking questions and getting very well received. Dim Jim wants a piece of that but gets his stint set up in a very safe and controlled environment, unlike Nicola who actually has the ability to walk right into the lions den and hand feed the beast.
Dimbo, your arse is grass.
And, eh, what do the trades Union leaders think of this line? Ed was their candidate. Are any of them coming out shouting that the Labour Party should accept David Cameron as next PM when a deal with the SNP would give Ed the keys to no 10?
Does tactical voting not sabotage the democratic will of the Scottish people?
A huge ‘well done’, Stu.
What’s going on with Jim Murphy’s hair? It’s a different colour every week.
I predict a Tory/Labour Coalition Government at the next Election to keep the radicals out. Does anyone agree/disagree?
Stephen.
Still my point davidb – what is there that the SNP put forward that would be to the detriment of the real people of the rUK?
I can’t understand this,is Murphy saying that if the Tories have 3 more seats than Lab he will be quite happy to let Cameron be PM when they have a chance to form a Government with the help of the SNP,I just don’t know why he does not call you out Rev for calling him a liar but then a bully always runs away when caught out.
Hmmm… I think Wingers are missing the actual argument being made, and thus a much stronger counter argument for nailing Labour’s shameless Establishment positioning.
Whilst Jim is using soundbites, he gets close to stating the actual political calculation Labour are using; “the country wouldn’t stand for it” (paraphrased) and the reference to the Unwritten Constitution is that there is a gentleman’s agreement that the largest party gets first try at forming a Government.
This is based upon the assumption, historically true until recently, that the electorate will have broken almost completely for the two major parties and their policies, but too closely to allow stability in Westminster as it is. Thus who ever holds the most seats is assumed to be slightly more popular in the country, and gets to try first, and the electorate will accept this because they understand the minority stepping aside as trying to honour that expressed public will.
So put another way, Jim is trying to spin it as “We will of course respect the broad outlines of the UK electorate’s choices.”
Sounds lovely, doesn’t it? Except that’s not what the current situation is looking like; there will be a huge majority for left leaning policies across the UK, even if Labour are a minority position against the Tories. There would need to be an unbelievable Tory landslide to counteract their unpopularity the further North you go.
So a much, much better way to corner Jim would have been to state “Do you believe your policies would have a majority of support in the country?” He has to say yes, because defeatism is a political no no in general. “And yet if the electorate votes for those policies in the form of the SNP or Green but not specifically for you, you wouldn’t defend those beliefs? You wouldn’t form common cause with the SNP and Greens to prevent the Tory policies you claim to dislike and the majority wants to see the back of?”
Force him to actually define what Labour believes in. Then ask him where those votes have gone if not to Labour. If he says “Well the SNP thinks…” you come back with “Are you saying the Scottish public don’t know what they’re voting for? Are you saying their votes shouldn’t count in the Westminster balance?”
The narrative of “Oh they’re lying” is good for venting here, but it just allows them to wallop you with soundbites and control the narrative; the answer to the question “When was the last time a minority Party formed a Government..?” isn’t to try and debate actual MP figures, but “It would have been this current Parliament, if you’d have had the courage of defending the majority of support you actually had in the country. Instead you let a minority Tory vote, with the help of the Liberal Democrats who betrayed their voters entirely, pass Tory legislation for the last 4 years. Now tell us again why people should think of voting for Labour if you don’t intend to fight for what the country is saying it wants.”
Amazing how the sod’s arrogance is based on the protection of the British Establishment. Here’s another confident he can do as he pleases, say what he wants.
‘Sir Nicholas Must Resign’ link to wp.me
The look of fear in Murphy’s eyes as you asked the question – pure joy! Thank you Stu – made my night!
I would have thought that Mr Murphy is both correct and wrong when he says the ‘largest party’ forms the government. If very much depends on the actual number of MPs each party, Tory and Labour, get as to whether he is correct or wrong.
If the Tories are the largest party (more seats than Labour) after the election but with insufficient seats to give them an overall majority in the House then they could continue as a minority government.
Labour forming a coalition with any other parties would not, I believe, be in a position to take over the government even although they and their coalition partners, however loose the coalition, have an overall majority. They could only vote down the budget thus causing another General Election.
A minority Tory Government would make deals on an issue by issue basis with any number of parties just as the SNP did in 2007-11.
It would be life on a knife edge because at any given time the other parties could outvote them particularly on the budget. This would likely result in a General Election. Would the other parties want that?
Or would the Tories make concessions in their budgets to other parties in return for their support or include measures the other parties want as the price for their support. Just as the SNP did in 2007-11.
If, however, the Tories are not the largest party i.e. have fewer seats than Labour then as the incumbent they would have first dibs at forming a coalition. This happened in 2010 only Labour were the incumbent administration.
So Jim Murphy is correct IF the first scenario holds ie Tories have more seats than Labour but not an overall majority in the House.
But he is wrong about the largest party forming the government IF the second scenario holds ie Tories have fewer seats than Labour but as the incumbent can have first go at forming a coalition government with another parties or parties.
So whether he is right or wrong depends on the numbers of Tories to Labour MPs
Does that summarise it?
Stu frae Bath first up against the Murph – seems a bitty suspect to me, do they not like our leader? (irony alert)
@Mac an sealgair says:
“25 March, 2015 at 6:22 pm
If the last time was in the 1920s then no matter how long ago it was, it clearly can be done. Simples.”
Agree completely, I may not be a lawyer, but do not these sort of events set a precedent? They “test” a pre-conceived view which will affect future similar situations. Probably more commonly know as unintended consequences….
There are different ways to describe the last hung parliament in which the 2nd largest party got to form the government. Calling it 1924 makes it seem a long time ago, but calling it just 4 hung parliaments ago, which it is, makes it seem a lot closer and relevant.
To stir the pot a bit, SNP could make it a condition of any deal with Labour that Murphy is excluded from any ministerial position.
Perhaps a clandestine leak may be useful. Plant the seed of doubt about Murphy and his career.
We can’t work with him. He cannot EVER give a straight answer. Dump him Ed.
I was almost totally deaf for a few years and during that time got to read people’s body language rather than hearing what they were saying.
Judging by his eye movement,hand covering his mouth as he spoke fidgeting,facial contortions(smile?)and body movements Mr. Murphy seemed very aware of the possibility of an involuntary bowel movement as he heard the words “Stuart” and “Bath”.
Just to observe – if Labour really are prepared to let the Tories win simply so Labour can give the finger to the SNP, they’re stone dead, and Jim will be dogfood. He must surely know that, or he’s delusional. So if he does know that, then he’s prepared to put the people of the UK through even worse hell for five more years, just to score a point. Such people don’t belong in politics. They belong in captivity for deliberate cruelty.
Well done, Stu.
So,the question remains.
That moment when he twigs that Stuart is actually The “Rev Stuart from Bath”…. suspect the producer has been talking in his ear…..
Priceless..
Cant wait to see smurph on QT. I hope he’s got his glue filled crisp poke on standby.
@ bugsbunny
I’m sure if such a coalition was to happen it would annihilate what remaining support there is for Labour in Scotland. Not to sure if all conservatives would go for it either, have you seen how nasty some Tory MPs have been about the Lib Dems these last 5 years? Some openly stated they would rather cast out the LDs and call a new early election.
Perhaps they would be willing to do it to ‘save the union’ , but it risks aggravating some of their more hardcore MPs and supports, and far from saving the Union it would be giving a big F U to Scotland, and we may just find ourselfs with the YES vote rocketing well beyond 50%. If that were to happen it would be interesting to see if the SNP would put independance back on their agenda from the Scottish Elections in 2016. Of course this is just my theory of how it might play out.
I do believe a Labour/Con coalition isn’t an impossibility, just that it may be rather foolish in the long run if they are trying to save the union, especially with 2016 scottish elections looming in the next year.
@Legerwood
They could only vote down the budget thus causing another General Election
That is not correct, so far as I can see. In the circumstances you envisage the tories would continue as government and would therefore write the queen’s speech. A vote against that speech amounts to a confidence vote and so if it was not passed the government is effectively over. Parliament then has two weeks or so to provide an alternative government and if they can’t manage that only then is a fresh election called
I think the words ” Stuart from Bath” must now send a chill down the spine of any SLab radio interviewee. There will be training sessions from Mr McTernan on how to cope.
@ Capella
That is optimistic
More likely there will be instructions not to let Stuart from Bath on the air
Jim’s tactic has subtely changed from a straight assertion of the biggest party always becoming the government to a question about when was the last time that didn’t happen. Of course the missing fact in that spread of years back to 1924 is that the UK has had a two party system and close results have been very rare because the electorate have operated on the principle of Buggins turn.
Jim deliberately misrepresents the current situation. We no longer have a two party system.
Well that was quite clear!
Jim Murphy would surrender the opportunity to form a Labour dominated government in favour of the Tories.
“Better run by the Tories than work with the SNP”
I know hind-sight is a wonderful thing.
If anyone else ever gets the chance to ask the same question as Stu and gets the standard, when was the last time a minority party became the government.
Simply say: so it can happen then and its not against the rules.
This will inevitably get a different kind of response from Murphy instead of him going into his prepared defence and deflection mode.
Stu,
I have just watch the full interview on the LBC site.
Have a look it will cheer you up. You did better than him.
Not Smuphy’s finest moments.
But why o why is he in London telling Londoners about the Mansion Tax, Bankers Bonus Tax, how old ladies who have lived in their homes for all their lives but have very little income, but their houses are valued in the Mansion Tax bracket will be hit by a mansion tax, that its going to pay for Scotland having 1000 extra nurses, free tuition fees, £1600 to school leavers, free travel for students.
If I was a London Labour MP I would be spitting nails.It must be costing them thousands of votes.
I think it might be better to do the childish thing: ” I asked first”
Barring a spectacular surge for either labour or the tories the outcome of this election will be unusual for the UK in that there won’t be a party with a majority by some distance.
So using the UK’s history, filled with majority governments to make a point is idiotic and completely disingenuous.
If you go out on a date then the fact you never got any action for 364 days is irrelevant. The situation has changed and all those evenings spent in front of the telly set no standard as circumstances are different.
I’m sure Jim thinks he is well clever, being adept at dodging questions, prevarication and deflection. Most people want a clear programme and honest, straightforward politicians who are willing to answer the electorate.
Stuart has formulated an unanswerable question which demands an honest answer – one which could have perhaps been avoided had they stuck with the ‘respect the electorate’ line instead of giving in to rule out a coalition. For now that labour have given in to clarify one post election position they will find it impossible to not further clarify.
I suspect what the lab high command think is ‘well, what business are post election negotiations of the electorate?’ That has been sacrificed. Labour are weak and in their heart of hearts I think they know they have lost this one.
Legerwood at 8.50
No.
A grouping which can command a majority in the House gets to form a government.This does not have to include the party with the largest number elected. This is common in many parliaments.
Gordon Brown tried to form a government even though he had achieved fewer seats than the Tories but the LibDems opted for a coalition with Cameron.
If no majority coalition is achieved a minority Government is possible
From the Labour Party “Media Training Package” for election candidates
6.2.1 Avoiding difficult questions.
In the event that a question falls into the “Difficult” category, simply insert one’s index finger(s) into the nearest associated ear and repeat the words “La-la-la, not listening” until the opportunity arises to move to content which is “on-message”.
Listen out for Stu frae Quahog from now on.
Well done Rev.
With this 24/7 exposure we’ve had of Murphy these past weeks, I really do wonder just what kind of person will vote for him.
If you haven’t yet worked out that those unionist parties will make any promises the think will gain a few more votes, then forget what was promised after getting elected, then you just haven’t been watching politics very long.
Not a single party leader and very few government ministers of those present parties who have not broken manifesto pledges. This coming election is not about to start a new trend.
Katie 9.02pm
“Cant wait to see smurph on QT. I hope he’s got his glue filled crisp poke on standby.”
Thanks for the reminder Katie, I forgot the Murph is appearing on the QT from Bradford, I think it is.
Also Ed and Dave are on Sky News tomorrow night.
What a delight it is to watch Labour/Tories in melt down.
Spot on about Sir Nic slipping out of view unchallenged Grouse Beater. One rule for us…
Maybe that Cutthroat Bandits head could be up for negotiation soon enough. Once the establishment get with the new reality.
Although this is the only shot in Murphy’s locker he keeps flogging the same dead horse ad nauseum. He thrives in being centre-stage, at being noticed & vainly pushing his personality deficit. A suitable case for treatment perhaps?
@TJenny says: 25 March, 2015 at 7:57 pm:
“Looks like Jimbo was trying not to let on he knew fine well who Stu from Bath actually is … “
That, TJenny, simply beggars the classic Scottish retort –
“Weel he kens fine noo”.
;-))
@Fiona and others
Mr Salmond pointed out that the Fixed Term Parliament Act lays down the procedure. If a government loses the no confidence vote, there is a two week period in which they can try again ( in our hypothetical scenario, say with Boris J as leader ), or others can try to form a government ( say with anyone but Ed as leader ).
We are in the same scenario. The only way Labour can choose to lose the game of pass the parcel is if they don’t vote down the Conservatives. And the question is, as before, how is that going to play in England?
I think its best to just ignore skeletor. He couldny get a degree in 9 years, so I doubt he’s not the sharpest tool in the box.
Somebody should remind Dim Jim that this is not the Holyrood election AND that Scotland already has free tuition fees for students, introduced by the SNP.
Murphy is from another planet, an out and out moon man.
Is Murphy trying to tell us that if the Tories have the largest number of MPs but not enough for a majority, that Labour wouldn’t try to get the support from other Parties for them to hold the majority vote?
@Legerwood says:25 March, 2015 at 8:50 pm:
“Does that summarise it?”
Not quite, Legerwood, for any group of members, not necessarily a party, can vote down a government budget or table a motion of no confidence or just outvote the government to prevent bills being passed.
Any government without a clear majority faces walking a tightrope with every bit of legislation they propose.
No one be in any doubt. They ALL know who Stu is where he lives and what he runs.
Jim knew instantly. Check him out getting his stats out of his pocket.
He has a cheek moaning about Stu being in Bath whilst in London.
He assumes Stu is SNP because he is asking questions about Labour in a Scottish accent. Stu (was) a Libdem voter. The question was a fair one and could have been asked by a farmer from Norfolk.
Jim knew who he was dealing with but simply wasn’t expecting it. That’s why he looked rattled.
He’ll be fuming. Most amusing. Not doing his ticker any good all of this. What a shame.
Well done Rev!!
The whole thing is available here:
link to youtu.be
where you can find another interesting segment:
link to youtu.be
in which he tries to offset the “traditional” sharing of oil & gas revenues with the hypothetical & much challenged mansion tax.
Too little too late Jim!!!
In the first GE in 1974, 635 seats were up for grabs (it’s 650 seats today).
318 was required for an overall majority.
The Tories were the incumbent govt and won 297 seats.
Labour won 301 seats.
Despite the Tories not being the biggest party, their leader refused to resign, as protocol allowed him to try & form a coalition government with another party/ies to reach 318 seats.
But the Ulster Unionists had fallen out with the Tories and the Liberals were having none of it either. Only when both the UU & Libs rejected the Tories’ overtures, did Tory PM Heath resign.
Labour, the largest party, were only then allowed to form a minority government.
So we do not need to go back to 1924 but 1974 to prove that in a hung Parliament, the incumbent Government gets first crack at the whip.
I thought you were brilliant Stu. I never saw such a shifty looking character as Jim Murphy. His casual mendacity is truly chilling – a psychopath, in the true clinical sense of that word.
He needs to have the fact that there is precedent for the govt not being the largest party rubbed in his face,at every opportunity.
Next time he or any other Slabbers try this on we should say,’Isn’t it a fact that in the 1920s a govt was formed by a party without having most seats and there is no legal,constitutional or any other impediment to this.’
If they can’t explain this away their dogma will sound empty rhetoric.
Attack is the best form of defence, hoist them with their own petard.
Well done for having good old go.
Anyone with a brain in their head should be able to see the slippery evasiveness of Mr. Jim.
It’s a pity he gets such a soft ride most of the time.
Eeeek – Stu’s just tweeted link to new post saying ‘Enjoy this piece, readers, there probably won’t be any more for a little while:’
What does he mean?????
O/T slightly
The Armageddon facing Labour in Scotland has massive financial and other implications. They lose 40 or 50 cash sources which are central to their political activity with all the vested interest that surrounds them.
Conversely the SNP suddenly will have dominating political position in most Scottish constituencies and hugely enhanced operating ability.
I would say that Labour is facing its finish in Scotland as I cannot see the jettisoned London Scottish Labour with any appetite for a real political contest.
Some folk have said to me we have been too anti Tory. We have not. The object of our present tactics is to destroy the Labour party in Scotland and we are doing just fine as they tie themselves in knots. Labour needs credible elected reps who can be used by the media and will have few of these if we succeed. A Labour fronted media operation is the last significant impediment to our independence.
Next year is the big one. The next Scottish election could also be a virtual referendum if we sought a majority for the assumption of all powers for our Parliament in our manifesto and that would be perfectly acceptable in the eyes of the UN Charter. The people are sovereign and we do not need to ask for anyone’s permission to declare ourselves independent.
I think it is important to clarify the 1951 Westminster results and totally refute the lies being told by Jim Murphy and Labour.
The 1951 Westminster results were as follows:
Labour 295,
Conservative 293,
Liberal National Party 19,
Ulster Unionist Party 9,
Liberal Party 6,
Independent Nationalist 2, and
Irish Labour 1…. a hung parliament.
The Conservative, Liberal National and Ulster Unionist Parties formed a coalition and governed with 321 seats.
Labour actually won more of the popular vote (13,948,883) than the governing coalition
(Conservatives 12,384,784 , Liberal National 1,58,138,and Ulster Unionist 274,928 for a total of 13,717,850)
Now for the cherry on top, the Labour Party gained MORE seats than the Conservative Party.
In 1951, the party with the largest number of seats in Westminster DID NOT FORM THE GOVERNMENT!
The 1923 election result – a hung parliament :
Con 258
Lab 191
Lib 158
LABOUR FORMED THE GOVERNMENT, even though it had 67 seats less than the Tories.
@ caz-m.
QT: Thursday 26th March from Bolton (not Bradford).
@ Oscar Taime 10:15pm
You give the link to the full interview. Rev Stu comes on about 22mins30secs. If you continue to listen after this piece you will hear Iain Dale quiz him on supply and confidence voting with the SNP. In fact he gives him a very rough ride right up to the end of the interview.
Everyone in labour knows who Stuart is,and they know not to
publicise the website.
Hi-la-ri-ous
And what a political gangster. He didn’t quite know how to say – yes, I know I’ve been spouting on about only the largest party will get to form the government… and though, it’s not the truth… when, o when Stu did it last happen… In 1924… 1924, Jim? Was that what he said? Surely, he meant 1923… Pray tell, Mr Murphy, wasn’t that the historical first labour government… your own party’s first big win… You want us, we who once were labour supporting socialists, to forget all about it?
Watching the man stick to his lie-gun and yet squirm gave me the biggest laugh since the referendum shenanigans.
Thank-you Stu. Live long and prosper. Fab.
@ Legerwood , close but not exact .
Robert Peffers @ 10.08 pm
“Any government without a clear majority faces walking a tightrope with every bit of legislation they propose ”
Correct. They would have to wheel and deal for support on every policy .
J M is a serial purveyor of PIS*
I keep asking myself , why JM has this need to continue with such crap . Is he really believing it will change minds ?
At times , I start to think Labour think we are all thickos !
Will we hear , like in the Indy Ref doom an gloom ,some big business / Bank / Authoritative body or a load of them , come out with some crap like “We need a stable GVT other wise we go into free-fall recession … bla bla bla ”
They ( establishment) surely have something to pull out as we near May , anything to frighten the Jocks.
Ach am gettin a sair heed thinking aboot it .
We need the 59 SNP Mps first .
TJenny no piece just the full pie.
Well done Stu very illuminating.
Hard job reasoning with a man who future is sure to be overseas selling Doritos and Sunny Delight to unsuspecting Americans.
Scrawny right wing,fear mongerer,every word he utters feels like a turd falling in my drink.
@ TJenny 10.23pm).
Hopefully it means nothing more than he’s going to be fully committed to a certain wee project or two.
Or maybe he’s taking the fundraiser proceeds and doing a bunk.
Time will tell.
What’s the point of having an election if Labour are going to let a Party with not enough seats for a majority form the government. It’s beyond belief. The Labour Party should just dissolve itself because it doesn’t want a chance to govern. Why is it fighting an election? To lose. It’s beyond comprehension.
Paula Rose + Stoker – thanks for reassurances – Stu’s also said that he’s neither ill nor arrested , oh and he’s NOT on his way to Buenos Aires with £104,720 – Phewee Stueee.
Good on you Stuart.
But
Your first question should have been repeated rather than explained or expanded.
My main question as an East Renfrewshire voter to Murphy is do you want to be our MP for 1 or 5 years.
Also as Tom Platt says:
East Renfrewshire constituents might well ask why he is doing a local radio phone-in programme in the London area rather than in Scotland. (or indeed East Renfrew).
Why oh why would anyone vote for him.
Well done Stu!
It took a while to chip away at the whole coaltion ruse – now it’s permeated through as a non-starter and the MSM have now had to accept that it is either confindence and supply or vote be vote that the SNP is offering. You have started the process of debunking this red herring too – and in plenty time. Ha ha – get it up you Murphy.
I’ve got a funny feeling that Red Ed might be secretly loving the thought of the SNP pulling labour to the left. Let’s face it Labour can’t…He’d be walking a tight rope though – and if this is the case murphy would be for the high jump even if he survives the election
I found the interview depressing.
Stuart, Murphy, and an English broadcaster all in the one padded room, so to speak, and only Murphy can be heard.
Hindsight is 20:20 of course.
Your key point, that Morphy had touted minority party coalition in 2010 was ‘buried’ in hubbub.
It would have been therefore better if the question was ‘In 2010 you supported Labour with around 50 less MPs than the Tories forming a government with the negotiated assistance of other parties. How does that square with recent, constitutionally erronious, Labour claims in Scotland that the biggest party always forms the Government?
The answer to Jim Murphy’s question is another question:
When was the last election where no party got 300 seats?
We’re in uncharted waters.
Hibs haven’t won the cup since 1902 but it could still happen. What a nonsensical argument to make.
That was superb to watch. Murphy hated that. Well done.
@ Fred ‘… (Murphy) as a suitable case for treatment’
Not sure if you’re joking or not, Fred, but I think there is something more than just creepy about JM. Someone on another thread pointed to his obvious passive/aggressive tendencies which we witnessed during the crate tour. And then, of course, there was the Pete Wishart incident.
I’m not suggesting that he should try Professor Robert Hare’s PCL-R test, what I am highlighting is how very clever and manipulative his sort can be. I’m sure his nine years at university were not misspent. From his point of view it would offer an excellent foothold on the political ladder.
The cut and thrust of the political arena is an attractive habitat for those who relish power and influence. No doubt he is not alone in the mother of parliaments.
The key question which someone in the media needs to hit him with when he starts his “when was the last time the party without the most votes got to form a government” schtick is that the past is irrelevant in a new era of hung parliaments. He can have no answer to that – and he knows damn fine that this is the new era of negotiation which opened in 2010, because he was one of the first to try to take advantage of it to keep Brown – and himself – clinging to the salaries and expenses of being in office.
O/T BBC failing to make the not un-significant connection between the Yanks now bombing Tikrit as air-cover for the Iranian led & supplied ground troops clear.The Israeli election has got nixie to do with it either.
Sssshhhhh, don’t mention the Iranians.
Being collectively psychologically profiled by the BBC has done fuck all to make me any friendlier.
One day Rev, you’ll be visiting Jim Murphy, and you’ll be bowing, and saying “yes first minister, no first minister, I agree first minister”.
Then, when your time is up, the nurse will say, ” please come back again soon Reverend, he really gets a lift from your visits”.
Here is an idea. Concerning the Revs post on Twitter Yesterday. Maybe he is going to let other people post articles. Then maybe he will stand as a Wings over Scotland Candidate in the coming General Election. Just a Thought. Go on Go on Go on.
Aye well Stuart from Bath. It seems to me that Jim Murphy did not twig for quite a while that he was in your presence.
Perhaps I am being very naive here, or giving credit where it simply ain’t due, but don’t you think that in his exalted position you would be tuned in to your arch nemisis?(I give up. how do you spell knemicis?)
I actually believe he didn’t understand the question.
What a sad state of affairs. Thank goodness Jim Murphy and his sorry tribe are of no interest to me or mine.
These two parties are criminal parties who have held their corrupt control of these islands for too long now.They cant allow a coalition with the SNP as the real truth about all their dealings would be exposed.
Right now they will be desroying evidence of all the shady dealings that they shared even as opposition parties.
So, to summarise Dim Jim’s argument re. an occasion when a party with fewer seats than another has formed a government: “This hasn’t happened since the last time it happened.”
Great sound bite, Jim.
And Stu, now that you’ve been rumbled, you need a new monicker for phone-ins.
Arise, Samantha of Bath!
Fact, by his own admission, Jim Murphy is a flat out Liar.
So 1923, 1951 and 1974.
Nice easy dates to remember for hung parliaments minority governments and cross party deals.
further, unsullied by wiki alterations, information regarding the 1951 General election results
Conservatives 293 seats plus
9 Ulster Unionists, 2 Conservative & National Liberal, 7 National Liberal & Conservative, 2 Conservative & Liberal, 7 Liberal & Conservative, and 1 National Liberals
Labour 295 seats
link to politicsresources.net
Haha! He quickly cottoned on to who you were, didn’t he? He seemed to forget it was being streamed by his facial expressions as well.
Scottish football are still seeking a sponsor apparently while Barr’s Irn Bru are laying out cash in England, can we blame Murphy for this dismal state of affairs?
Perhaps someone should ask Murphy how he expects the UK Labour party to have any hope in hell of being the largest party when he himself has separated out any ‘Scottish Labour’ seats as an autonomous party.
So, In the last 100 years the UK has had 6 hung parliaments.
Of those 3 have resulted in minority governments, two of which were formed by largest party (Labour, 1929 and 1974) with the remaining one formed by the second largest party (Labour, 1923).
The other 3 hung parliaments resulted in formal coalitions, two of which were lead by the largest party (Conservative, 1918, 2010) with the remaining one formed by the second largest party (Conservative, 1951).
The other 20 parliaments over this time had governments formed by parties with an absolute majority.
The idea that in the event of a hung parliament ‘the largest party always forms the government’ is therefore very flawed.
Indeed, in 2010 Labour, despite being second largest party, actively pursued a deal to allow them to form the government.
He’s on Question Time tonight – in Bolton. Without any SNP spokesman present, he’ll get a free hand to lie. Bombard the programme with tweets and texts – his nine years at uni without getting a degree, his betrayal of the NUS over tuition fees, his membership of the Henry Jackson Society, support for the Iraq war, £1m of expenses etc!
link to bbc.co.uk
Ha ha, great work for having a go and asking him straight but as you would expect you were never going to get a straight answer! It was like that git of an interviewer had to dumb it down for poor old Jim to understand.
On a side note, I hate how Murphy now has this habit of starting every interview of with a joke (no not just himself or the oxymoron that is Labour) almost as if to try and demonstrate that he is some sort of regular guy who likes a wee laugh. It was the same thing with the Irn-Bru crate which, in his simple mind, I presume he thought made him look more Scottish and down to earth.
He’s fooling no one and I think it’s about high time he started thinking of finishing off once and for all his university education and got himself into the real world! After all, it’s likely he could be joining the dole queue in May.
A good effort.
The “when was the last time this happened” argument is such a transparently weak one, it’s frustrating that they appear to be getting away with it. Our political system has ensure that general elections have only resulted in a hung parliament twice since 1924 (the last time the biggest party didn’t form the government). The reason that the biggest party gets to form the government is because the biggest party almost always has an overall majority.
To argue on that basis that there is any historical reason to think that “the biggest party gets to form the government” in the event of a hung parliament is simply laughably weak. And they must know this.
“Is labour prepared to form a government if it’s not the biggest party? m..em g m g let me think”
It’s like watching Mo at the bar receiving one of Bart Simpson’s prank calls. You can see the wee wheels slowly turning in Jim’s head “it’s you isn’t it? when I getta hold of you ya little”. Stu laughs and hangs up