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Together alone

Posted on August 03, 2013 by

The “Better Together” stall at Baxter Park, Dundee earlier today.

togetheralone3

Aw. If we’d been there we might even have gone and helped. We’re not made of stone.

This was the Yes stall, incidentally:

yesdundee1

yesdundee2

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  1. 04 08 13 16:10

    A Pictur-Yes-que Viewpoint from the Nethan Valley | UKOK out in force in Lesmahagow

77 to “Together alone”

  1. Somebody says:

    Saw Yes East Kilbride today in…well, East Kilbride. They had a sizeable bunch of people around the. Unlike Better Together/United With Labour (yes, they couldn’t even identify which one they were!) who couldn’t seem to gather any interest, and began packing up when I challenged them on what the Union means.

  2. David says:

    If they release the geographical distributions of votes in the referendum then I predict Dundee will have  the highest yes vote. The area from Perth through Dundee and Angus does seem to be Yes heartland.

  3. Yesitis says:

    The good people of my home town are not buttoned up the back. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

  4. Marcia says:

    Ah bless.
    This afternoon I was on the 22 bus going to Ninewells Hospital to visit a relative. When the bus went along Arthurstone terrace I noticed a few family groups clutching saltires, I presume from the Yes stall in nearby Baxter Park.

  5. Doug Daniel says:

    Well, I’m sure it was a nice day out anyway.

  6. Gordon Bain says:

    I talked to that woman. I asked five questions and received no answers. I was informed however that Salmond was a liar. I was also informed, bizarrely, that Norway has high tax and why would I want to live in a country like that? I pointed out that maybe Norwegians are paid better wages but she rubbished that. I mentioned that Norway and Scandinavia in general have some of the happiest populations in the world and how that’s odd if they’re all skint. Blank stare. She asked me to sign my name and I asked her name. She declined. I took out my phone and photographed her. I was too quick and snapped her just before she dived under the table, telling me to “fuck off” in a Geordie accent. Then the ‘muscle’ appeared and suggested I leave immediately. I don’t leave my own public park! He said he goes “to the gymn” and I quaked. Not really. Later it was pointed out to me that he was some relation of Jenny Marra and he does karate.
    i was only out for milk.
     
     

  7. I used to live near there and walked the dog in that park. I’ve come to the conclusion that that bit is haunted. It never gets warm. Anything north of the pavilion is fine but that bit is just cold.

  8. Birnie says:

    I was at the Yes stall in Dundee helping out, we were busy all day, with about 20 volunteers. Better Together turned up late, the 4 or 5 people there mostly chatted to themselves all day. Most folk were not going near them

  9. Paula Rose says:

    Oh the wee soul, I’ll pretend to be one of them if it helps, I hope she got a cup of tea.

  10. Gordon Bain says:

    She wisnae that wee.

  11. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    from the Yes Dundee site;”

    Ooh, those are worth editing in.

  12. scotty says:

    this appearing right above the better together paid promoted “positive choice for the UK” ad on fb has made me a happy boy tonight!says it all.

  13. The Man in the Jar says:

    @G. Campbell
    I caught a snippet of “I love My Country” curiosity got the better of me! The wifey (was that Gabby Logan?) asked a question “How many red phone boxes have listed status with English Heritage?” or similar. That was enough for me. I got the idea regarding what country they meant.

  14. rabb says:

    The Lone Danger.
     
    “Tonto, scrape another fearbomb from the arse of that barrell!”

  15. silver19 says:

    @G. Campbell
     
    Just another programme pretending to made in Scotland. Like Question Time, Waterloo Road etc. To look like Scotland get’s is share in the production, It’s just a sham.

  16. HandandShrimp says:

    Dear God, that first picture captures the misery of being Bitter Together.

  17. Chic McGregor says:

    Hey Rev. Some of those Yes supporters are Scottish.  Cheating again.

  18. Heather McLean says:

    Apparently the Bittertogethers are Twittering that the “SNP stall” we’re handing out labourforindy leaflets and describing them as crap! They just don’t get it do they?? They can’t believe that any other political party other than the SNP could possibly want independence! However much they try to bury their heads in the sand labourforindy exists and our yes stall had representatives from the greens, socialists, labourforindy, SNP and people not affiliated to ANY political party! 
    It was a great day and I personally spoke to lots of people who gave a very positive response to the idea of independence – very uplifting and encouraging day! 

  19. HandandShrimp says:

    Hey Heather, the pictures above say more than a thousand words. One stall was having fun, the other was sneaking looks at leaflets (because clearly they had nothing better to do) 😉

  20. Birnie says:

    Heather McLean
    It was this guy from U-KOK, who came over and pinched lab4indy leaflets
    https://www.facebook.com/george.mcirvine
     

  21. HandandShrimp says:

    Had a look at George’s thing – a Godwin from him in the first couple of comments and he expects to be considered a serious voice? Weird. 

  22. CameronB says:

    Ahhh, what a shame. It doesn’t look as if Ian Taylor’s money went very far.
     
    This ScottishRepublic blog post is a little old, but I think deserves a re-post.
    http://www.scottishrepublic.eu/scottish/human-rights-ethics-ian-taylor-and-better-together/
     
    The Oil&Money link is intended to spotlight the sort of conferences where all our futures will be determined. The agenda items that particularly interest me are on Day 1; “Prospects for Non-Conventional Oil and Gas Outside of North America”. On Day 2; “Economy and Finance” (in particular, the banks that will be making presentations, especially Kerogen Capital), and the elephant in the room and final item on the agenda, “is US Energy Independence Probable? Implications for Global Markets and Geopolitics”.
    http://www.oilandmoney.com/speakers/ian-taylor.aspx

  23. RodneySofa says:

    As each day passes I look forward more and more to moving back to Sutherland and voting a rather positive Yes in 2014. Is April 2014 too late to get on the electoral roll? Hoping that my early retirement (from work, not life) didn’t come too late…

  24. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    RodneySofa
     
    No. It’s now a rolling register. You can register anytime. 

  25. RodneySofa says:

    @Dave McEwan Hill
    Thanks for that Dave – a little reassurance goes a long way.
    Away from Scotland since the 80’s since Mrs T thought it was a good idea to do away with the steel industry. Teesside has been a damn good place to live but there’s no place like home.
     

  26. Training Day says:

    That looks like a snapshot of the only millisecond that crowds weren’t thronging around the BT ‘stall’.  Unfair, Rev.
     
    Jeez, what the hell, I’ll paraphrase GM Gilbert.  ‘She failed to convince.  People felt ashamed.  The feeling of shame grew, it proliferated, strangled, and cut off the breath.’

  27. Chic McGregor says:

    Couldn’t they afford a UJ?

  28. CameronB says:

    I forgot these extracts from President F. D. Roosevelt’s Message to Congress on Curbing Monopolies. Delivered in April 1938, see if anything strikes a chord with you today.
     
    “When prices are privately managed at levels above which would be determined by free competition, everyone suffers”.

    “Our housing shortage is a perfect example of how ability to control prices interferes with the ability of private enterprise to fill the needs of the community and provide employment for capital and labour”.

    “Competition, of course, like all good things, can be carried to excess. The exploitation of child labour, the chiseling of workers’ wages, the stretching of workers’ hours, are not necessary, fair or proper methods of competition. I have consistently urged a federal wage and hours bill to take the minimum decencies of life for the working man and woman out of the field of competition”.

    “No people, least of all democratic people, will be content to go without work or to accept some standard of living which obviously and woefully falls short of their capacity to produce. No people, least of all people with our tradition of personal liberty, will endure the slow erosion of opportunity for the common man, the oppressive sense of helplessness under the domination of a few, which are overshadowing our whole economic life”.

    “The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism – ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any controlling private power”.
    http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=15637
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_capitalism

  29. pmcrek says:

    Dundee Free State! 🙂

  30. joe kane says:

    She’s out standing in her field.
    The Ian Taylor Appreciation Society.
    This is the kind of  quality grassroots activism that Tory money buys you in Scotland today. that and Scottish Labour front men like Darling and McDougall.

  31. Patrick Roden says:

    As I Dundonian I am always proud of my home town, but today I’m glowing inside !
     
    I will be in Dundee in around April March next year and would love to get involved with Yes Dundee when I am.
    Anyone who is up for a pint as well give me a shout.

  32. Patrick Roden says:

    OT,  This might prove a little embarrassing for ‘Project Fear’
     
    A good headline….’Who’s scaring who?’

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2384224/Revealed-Shock-Code-Red-safety-report-British-nuclear-subs-fleet-hit-leaking-cracked-reactors-lack-trained-staff.html

  33. Seasick Dave says:

    In that first Yes photo I see that we have Sheepdugs for Independence as well.
     
    Come on ye sheepdugs!

  34. J. R. Tomlin says:

    Be careful. If you are photographed with another “Yes” group, now they’ll decide that “Yes Scotland” is a scam and make themselves look stupid again.
    Oh, wait… they’ll make themselves look stupid somehow anyway so never mind. 

  35. Heather McLean says:

    Patrick Roden says:
    4 August, 2013 at 4:19 am

    As I Dundonian I am always proud of my home town, but today I’m glowing inside !
     
    I will be in Dundee in around April March next year and would love to get involved with Yes Dundee when I am.
    Anyone who is up for a pint as well give me a shout.

      

     

    Patrick – we would be delighted to have you involved with the Yes Campaign in Dundee – all help and support is appreciated! 
     

  36. Alba4Eva says:

    I take it she had this song playing on her wee transistor radio…  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6clOaNae8sg

  37. James Westland says:

    Whats funny is that the stand next to her is Tayside Council on Alcohol. Maybe she’s part of the same thing ; “Avoid heavy bevvy or you’ll end up like this!”

  38. Vronsky says:

    O/T, but I’d like some more information on this, mentioned on an earlier thread.  My wife is a US citizen and is not entitled to vote in UK elections.  She is not on the electoral role.  She has lived for the past 15 years in Scotland.  Will she be entitled to vote in the 2014 referendum?  All the noises from the SNP have been that anyone resident in Scotland has a vote, but now we’re hearing a few voices saying that this isn’t so, and it will only be EU, or EU and Commonwealth, citizens who wil have the franchise.
     
    We know it isn’t true that it’s just the usual electoral role, because that wouldn’t include 16-year-olds.  Anybody got any idea (better than a guess) if my wife can vote?  I’m interested because I do work for a volunteer group and come into contact with many non-EU immigrants, a large number of them highly interested in voting Yes if they can.

  39. Luigi says:

    If all us YES supporters were as brave and dedicated as that young lady campaigning for BT, we would win by a country mile.

  40. Alastair wright says:

    What did better together expect when you put two up two placards insulting people? (UKOK)

  41. Jockinho says:

    In response to Vronsky: –
    If your wife wants to vote in the referendum she’ll have to get on the electoral roll. My wife is Brasilian and has been a citizen since 2005 (we got married in 2001) and she’ll be voting YES along with me.
    So unless you are on the electoral roll the answer is no, you will not be able to vote. People from other EU countries resident in Scotland can vote, but only if they register on the electoral roll here.

  42. TYRAN says:

    Time to start up a sub site Lonely UKOK inspired by this popular one.
    http://lonelyvirgil.net/

  43. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Jeezzzz their soaraway, singular, fun filled, white, party balloon was either a leaker of made of lead.
    Was she really from Geordieland? Bussed all the way up for a fun day in Dundee.
    Is that what ATOS has forced the unemployed to do?

  44. Gallowglass says:

    Here is Police Scotland harassing Yes Scotland!  Their crime?
     
    Blocking the road, apparently. 
     
    http://imageshack.us/a/img22/4324/ddi7.jpg
     
    http://imageshack.us/a/img14/910/wdju.jpg
     
    Edinburgh 

  45. Sneddon says:

    Vronsky – Looking at the Scottish Referendum Franchise Bill  I’d say your wife based the information you wrote doesn’t meet the conditions.
    “A person is entitled to vote in an independence referendum if, on the date on which the poll at the referendum is held, the person is
     
     
    aged 16 or over, registered in either—
    (i)the register of local government electors maintained under section 9(1)(b) of the 1983 Act for any area in Scotland, or
    (ii)the register of young voters maintained under section 4 of this Act for any such area,
    not subject to any legal incapacity to vote (age apart), and
    a Commonwealth citizen,a citizen of the Republic of Ireland or a relevant citizen of the European Union”
     
     
     

  46. Indy_Scot says:

     
    “Quite how” she “thought” she “would get away with this scam Guido isn’t sure…”

  47. Patrick Roden says:

    @ heather,
     
    Ok Heather, I will be in touch before April and you can let me know what events are planned when I’m in Dundee.
    I will love to get involved. 🙂

  48. Marcia says:

    Birnie
    That guy is a serial loser for UK Labour in local elections in Dundee. I believe he lives not far from the SNP Parliamentary office which must irk him every day.

  49. The Man in the Jar says:

    Is the independence movement about to get backing from Iran’s new president?
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-23554836

  50. scottish_skier says:

    If all us YES supporters were as brave and dedicated as that young lady campaigning for BT, we would win by a country mile.

    Quite. Full marks to her for dedication.

    I must admit though when seeing the photo I did think ‘What if she needs to go for a pee?’

  51. Stuart Black says:

    Good morning all, a couple of things, both off topic.
     
    United with Labour, launched by Broon on 13th May this year runs out of google hits on the 14th May this year, does anyone know what happened to this campaign? Must be some kind of a record there…
     
    Watching the ‘main’ news, i.e. from London, I am informed that – similar to the wait for the royal brat – the world is waiting to hear the identity of the new Doctor Who. Billions of breaths (careful now) bated, eh? Makes you proud.
     
    There’s a real neediness about this obsession to be the centre of the universe, must hark back to the empire, or summat. Weird.
     

  52. The Man in the Jar says:

    They can’t help themselves can they. In the BBC article regarding Hassan Rouhani. It states. “He chose Great Britain because he has respect for the legal system here, for the judiciary and also for the legislative system” Spot the deliberate mistake.

  53. James Westland says:

    scottish_skier:
     
    That must be a major problem since they are a’ fu’ o’ pish….

  54. HandandShrimp says:

    Stuart
     
    I was thinking the very same thing yesterday. Brown disappears off the scene more often than Lamont. What happened to Labour U-KOK? Do they have enough people and money to split between two campaigns?

  55. Morag says:

    “He chose Great Britain because he has respect for the legal system here, for the judiciary and also for the legislative system” Spot the deliberate mistake.
     
    Apart from the obvious, the other one that springs to mind is that the Scottish legal system would be a joke if it wasn’t so terrifying.  And the SNP government is busy making it worse.

  56. Jon D says:

    Better Together stall??
    All I can see is two balloons.

  57. Alba4Eva says:

    Whit ye bletherin aboot Morag?  The Scottish Legal System has much that is far superior to the English system.  Finest recent high profile example was the release of Al Magrahi on compassionate grounds.

  58. Alba4Eva says:

    There are more than 2 ballons Jon D… there are some hiding under the table… oh wait… have we just found Johann Lamont?

  59. JLT says:

    ‘I love My Country’
     
    I love my country too! It’s called Scotland.

  60. Morag says:

    Whit ye bletherin aboot Morag?  The Scottish Legal System has much that is far superior to the English system.  Finest recent high profile example was the release of Al Magrahi on compassionate grounds.
     
    Huh.  Abdelbaset al-Megrahi wouldn’t have been in prison in the first place if the Scottish legal system hadn’t run a show trial where a couple of judges decided to convict on evidence that shouldn’t have been enough to make a parking ticket stick, and browbeat the third judge into agreeing with them to make it unanimous.

    He wouldn’t have been in prison if a stick stone stupid defence advocate hadn’t appealled on the wrong grounds in 2001, allowing the appeal judges to dismiss his appeal on little more than a technicality.

    He wouldn’t have been in prison if the system had got off its backside and expedited the hearing of his second appeal.  What sort of justice system delays an appeal with planned adjournments so that its timetable takes it beyond the estimated life expectancy of the appellant, for God’s sake?

    And that’s without even mentioning the large quantities of exculpatory evidence withheld from the defence, and the Public Interest Immunity Certificate document and the farce of the “special advocate”.

    No, Kenny just sent the poor man home with a homily about how he would “die a guilty man”.  Forgive me if I’m unimpressed.

    Then, there’s Cadder, there’s double jeopardy, and there’s the proposed abolition of the requirement for corroboration without any additional safeguards.  If you’re not scared, I am.  It’s an engraved invitation to even more miscarriages of justice.

    And do I even have to mention Shirley McKee?

  61. Stuart Black says:

    @Hand&Shrimp: My point being not that they are splitting people and money between two campaigns, but that there is only one campaign, UwL having rose without trace.

    Run a google search –
    12th May, UwL to be launched tomorrow.
    13th May, UwL  launched today.
    14th May, UwL was launchedyesterday.
     
    And then? Nothing, as if it had never been. Now, it may be that I am just rubbish at google search parameters and there is a cornucopia of stories out there about the sterling job that Mr Brown is doing with this campaign, though I remain unconvinced. 
     
    What I do find interesting is that no-one seems to be interested, and that’s on both sides. If the YES side had launched a parallel campaign, targeting some specific part of the franchise, that vanished so spectacularly the headlines would be getting projected onto the face of the moon.
     
    There may be a wee story here.
     

  62. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Morag
    I think you have been baited and swallowed it.
    Irony can be deceitfully effective.

  63. HandandShrimp says:

    Morag
     
    Legal systems are blunt instruments at best. Whether it was evidence presented/manipulated at Megrahi’s trial, the Italian system in full flow, Pussy Riot in Russia or Manning in the US, legal systems are an instrument of the state and justice is a happy accident when it occurs. I don’t think the Scottish system is particularly worse than most of the others though.

  64. Alba4Eva says:

    Morag, the SNP did not write the laws and were not in power at any time up to the Abdelbaset al-Megrahi trial in the Netherlands.  Also, both the UK and Scottish legal systems are required by EU law to comply with the Cadder outcomes… again, not any fault of the SNP. http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Justice/legal/criminalprocedure/cadder-case-qanda
    I don’t have a problem with the double jeopardy position in Scotland quote; “The double jeopardy rule no longer applies absolutely in Scotland since the Double Jeopardy (Scotland) Act 2011 came into force on 28 November 2011. The Act introduced three broad exceptions to the rule: where the acquittal had been tainted by an attempt to pervert the course of justice; where the accused admitted his guilt after acquittal; and where there was new evidence.”
    No legal system is perfect, however we have a much better than average one here in Scotland.  The legal systems in many other coutries around the world would really scare you… some countries that you have probably been to on holiday.

  65. Tom Hogg says:

    I agree with Morag, maybe a wee bit less alarmist, but I still agree that the Gov is making legal reforms that appear to be illiberal. Maybe something for another thread though.

  66. Morag says:

    I think you have been baited and swallowed it.
    Irony can be deceitfully effective.
     
    I thought it might be, but it let me have my wee rant anyway.

    The SNP had nothing to do with the original shambolic botched investigation, or with the manipulation of the trial which in my opinion went ahead despite the prosecution advocates having realised the men in the dock were innocent.  (Book coming out in a few months, a bit too early to pre-order copies yet though.  http://www.troubador.co.uk/book_info.asp?bookid=2499)

    The SNP have everything to do with the dropping of the second appeal and the refusal to contemplate a Public Inquiry though.  Justice for Megrahi are being given the runaround by Kenny, who seems quite happy to mis-quote the law and misrepresent what’s being asked of him in his determination to keep the lid on it.

    As for the rest of it, Lallans Peat Worrier and Robert Black are more eloquent than I am.  Read their blogs.

    Yes, I’ve been on holiday in Italy.  I know what they’re doing to Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox.  However, I don’t necessarily think they’re significantly worse than here so I’d probably go back.

  67. Sheena Wellington says:

    To be fair to BT (not something I will say very often) there were moments during the day when they had as many as three people working on their stall.   I can also report that the UKOK signs were the subject of some ribald comments from the populace at large.

  68. Peter says:

        Megrahi didn’t have to drop his appeal in order to be released, so you’re wrong AGAIN!  And it was the Libyan government who persuaded him to do so as they were after prisoner transfer. So nothing to do with the SNP in any evil plot to somehow protect the reputation of Scottish justice.  
       I do have some tinfoil if you’d like a new hat though.

  69. Morag says:

    No, he didn’t.  And I know what al-Obeidi said to him as well.

    Kenny just treated Megrahi like a mushroom till he got the result he wanted.

  70. James Farmer says:

    Such an event happened at the Scottish Bagapipe Championships, how ever not on this scale, Yes out numbered the bitter together about 3-1 gaining little support from the public Glad to see we are doing well other places as well.

  71. Vronsky says:

    Morag and I don’t see eye to eye on a few matters (candidate for understatement of the century) but I have to defend her here.  The framing of Megrahi (because that’s what it was) and his subsequent release on pretence of ‘compassion’ ought to be matters of enormous concern to all responsible and thinking Scots.  This issue is practically the only reservation I have about independence, and it’s not going to go away.  Sorting out the Crown Office and the Scottish judiciary looks like a task on the scale of the cleansing of the Augean Stables.  So let’s make like the alcoholics: the first step in solving the problem is admitting that you’ve got it.
     
    As Morag recommends, go to Robert Black’s blog and do some catch up reading.  There aren’t that many dots and it won’t take you long to join them up.
     

  72. Tony Little says:

    @Vronsky Peter
     
    Have to agree here.  Morag is 100% right.  The disgrace and it IS a disgrace, that is the Megrahi trial and subsequent misjustice is a blight on the Scottish justice system,.  I have hoped for a more enlightened response when the SNP won a majority in 2011 and it is a constant thorn in my side that they choose to do nothing.  It will be a major issue come my vote for the first iScottish Parliament in 2016.  
     
    Justice should be above party politics, and also above pandering to external powers.  Releasing al Megrahi was a good thing, but the reluctance to go the whole hog leaves a bitter taste in the moth.
     
    I hope a truly independent Scottish government in 2016 will have the cojones to do the right thing. 

  73. Taranaich says:

    If all us YES supporters were as brave and dedicated as that young lady campaigning for BT, we would win by a country mile.
     

    Aye, it is truly brave and dedicated for someone representing the current popular majority opinion – which all the three major UK parties and the entire media support – to campaign against the group constantly portrayed as a fringe of deluded nationalists who have no actual chance of success…

  74. AnneDon says:

    Re the Yes stall at Davidson’s Mains:
    Apparently, someone (!) phoned the police to complain there was a demonstration blocking the pavement, so the police came round.
     
    Apparently, they were nice enough about it, and left the stall once they saw there was nothing wrong with it. Not really harassment.
     
    I wonder what sort of person would be motivated to do such a thing?!?

  75. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Kenny just treated Megrahi like a mushroom till he got the result he wanted.”

    Dunno if you’ve seen it, but in today’s Sunday Times, Donald Trump claims Alex Salmond told him privately that Megrahi was a “scapegoat”. How much weight you want to place on Trump’s word is up to you.



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