The checklist
The voting’s over. Let’s see how these get on, shall we?
If we’re in the mood, btw, we might make this post an election liveblog.
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00.49am
The first result is in, in Orkney. Let’s see how it compared with the “prediction” posted last night by Cutbot, an “analysis” site run by Green activist/dick James Mackenzie.
PREDICTION
ACTUAL RESULT
So a real majority of more than 11 times the “prediction”. And with a grand total of one seat declared, the SNP constituency clean sweep is dead. (Apparently the explanation may be that a popular independent who stood last time didn’t stand this time and all his votes went LD.)
———————————————————————————————-
00.59am
SNP take Rutherglen from Labour dronebot James Kelly.
PREDICTION
ACTUAL RESULT
Right result, everyone’s vote dramatically underestimated.
———————————————————————————————-
01.19am
Y’know what? A live blog is just going to be a total pain. We can’t do this faster than Twitter or the BBC, so we’ll only mention stuff if it’s super-interesting. Otherwise chat in comments.
@ call me dave You were done oot ah goat ah Bacon roll n coffee wie Ivan & Stewart Hosie lol
The Man in the Jar wrote:
“Still waiting for the Uddingston Bellshill result.”
SNP gain.
SNP to the Greens “Back us or sack us”
according to auntie talking about a coalition pact.
Some person hinted at the Lib/Dems getting a slice….Aye right!
Nicola on shortbread radio putting on a good show they might get round to mentioning a coalition…if they dare.
Pro-union stance V SNP mooted. 2nd referendum?
She deflects as she should. Wait and see the election outcome.
I’m off to bed…Unemployment has some good points..sleeping til noon.
@ronnie anderson
You jammy so,n,so! 😉
Oh wait there’s pig in that.
Greens give Ruthie the seat. Nice Allies.
What a fucking mess. Time to blow things up.
Not too wee. Not too small. Definitely too Stupid.
5 constituencies still to call, then the share of the 56 list seats.
BBC = Biased Bastards and Cunts.
Stephen.
God I’m shattered. Have to get off to bed. Looks like Nicola is leader. With a majority? Seems she’s 5 short of a majority and relying on the list vote.
No doubt Stu will analyse it all tomorrow.
Meanwhile, in Wales, Plaid Cymru have a nice strip of victories in large constituencies down the west coast (so it looks impressive on the map) and Leanne Wood has just beaten Labour in the Rhondda.
The Man in the Jar wrote:
“Still waiting for the Uddingston Bellshill result.”
SNP gain.
Well, we’ll have to wait and see what happens on the list, if Labour are down on the list to the Tories more than expected, they might pick up less list seats that “predicted”, but the conservatives don’t pick up more because of the constituency seats, leaving the SNP with more than expected.
Time for a cup of hopeful tea!
John Curtice expects the SNP to get an overall majority and that the Conservatives may pip Labour for 2nd.
Greens being discussed as an ally 3.6% last time on list now about 6% according to someone with a slide rule.
We should get some list results soon.
Hannah Bardell really pissed off wi that fuckin twat next to her…go on Hannah….nobody lookin….
Now it’s the end of the SNP surge according to Laura Kuesnssberg. Bitch.
Stephen.
Tory twat announces that independence “drifting away”….emm…SNP still on for a majority ffs!!
John Curtice saying an SNP majority isn’t in the bag.
Will be very close.
ps – I can remember when Labour got about 85% of the vote in the Rhondda at Westminster elections; tens of thousands and all their rivals lost their deposits.
But Labour was founded as the party of the industrial working class, and now that we don’t make things any more, it was only a matter of time before their fake Tory, fake Liberal facade disintegrated. There’s no longer any point to them.
Tories looks like getting two list seats in Glasgow as mentioned earlier. Who would have thunk it.
56 SNP constituency seats four more to call says auntie shortbread
Skye & Lochaber
SNP win
57 🙂
Ha ha ha it wiz Ayrshire bacon an the rolls were Scottish, coffee came oota jar but it wiz Nescafe lol
Comoan tae ffffff only 8 needed
Set the alarm, Congratulations Greens and The National, you’re cunning plan worked for toryboy world in Scotland worked perfectly.
All we’ll get now from tory BBC led freak out media is the goddess Ruth Davidson saves the UKOK, for another 5 UKOK years.
It was The National wot won it/duped Scotland.
Bloody Green arguing on Revs Twitter.
James Kelly was right and fought a good fight on the 2nd vote crap.
Would real like to know why folk in Glasgow favouring Tories to labour, mental really
Glagow list
Tory 2
Green 1
Lab 4
Sawar McNeil Lamont AND Kelly
All I heard radio shortbread talks over everything (twats)
Here’s a revolutionary thought, and that’s with Labour being confirmed as trounced on the list, it’s time to start building brdiges with them and woo them to the Force of Independence – and supporting Indy Ref 2, even if they take a neutral stance in it.
To be honest when you look at some of the seats the SNP lost, they had a few duff uninspiring candidates.
Sometimes the candidate election procedure ends up picking the same old guard rather than fresher faces who might go down better with the wider electorate.
@yesindyref2
Labour caught between a tory tank and hard place as they got gubbed for carrying the union jack for the tories in the referendum.
They have no space on the left centre as the SNP have it.
They have hardly any soft YES folk left shurley!
SNP 58.
Edinburgh List seats:
LAB 2
TORY 3
GREEN 2
SNP 0
@call me dave
Glasgow list is only a disappointment for intelligent political contributions simply because Lab were wiped out in the constituencies. It’s true when they say “you can’t have everything” 🙁
FIFE LIST seats
SNP
LAB 2
TORY 4
LIB DEM 0
GREENS 1
Sorry if I come across as a little panicky but we really need some list seats.
I have a bad feeling about this.
Is a majority still possible ?
What seats are left to declare?
Now its all about the list and we’ll see just what effect the media campaign against the SNP has had.
No shocks about Tory and Labour vote for me sad to say. The Tory strategy in concert with the media was crystal clear from the get go and appears to have worked. I had hoped that those Labour voters disaffected with Ms Dugdale would rather ‘abstain’ from voting rather than vote Tory, but it appears their journey to the Dark Side (famous movie quote TM) is now complete. They truly would suffer generations of Tory Westminster government in union than see a single day of a representative people’s government in an independent Scotland.
They’ve made their choice.
Very disappointing that the Greens standing against the SNP in Edinburgh Central, has gifted the seat to the Tories, especially when the Green candidate was elected as a list member.
A pro-Indy seat lost to the unionists, when it didn’t have to be.
@Flying Scotsman
I know the feeling. I saw a comment by Curtice that the emphasis on Indy2 night have hurt the SNP. Well who the F@ck kept THAT in the publics’ attention! SNP only discussed it because they were perpetually asked the question.
Corp Media and BBC ‘win it’ for the Unionists
‘use your list vote for somebody else’ ‘2nd vote green’ 2nd vote rise’.
So, well done for falling into the unionist trap. No referendum likely now.
Well done stooges.
Kevin McKenna
He agrees with me all the soft YES in labour have already gone to the SNP the rest are hard NO.
The constitutional Q: YES v NO
Twuuly Twuuly Dweadful for labour.
This isn’t good if greens hold the balance of power.
The SNP might not be able to get any centralist policies through without support from a few Tories.
Could it be that misguided tactical votes just lost a majority and replaced a few SNP list msps with greens?
Patrick Harvie:
Closest ever to get a 2nd green in Glasgow…but no cigar 🙁
Won’t comment on SNP / GREEN coalition
(but has got his hand on our goolies nearly) 🙂
Kezie on now. Glen mentions no varnishing on the route.
Noise of the tables being collapsed and moved in the hall she better hurry up or they’ll throw her out on Jimmy Kelly’s doorstep.
According to the BBC graphic I’ve seen, the SNP are +3 on the constituency seats with 58 so far. So they must have had a good number of list seats last time round.
Anyone know how many?
“Labour ran a strong campaign but the country isn’t read for it.”
What an arsehole.
@Capella
I think is was 12 regional list seats last time
OK I’m worried. Still 37 seats to go but…
Has anybody watched this all the way through? Apart from Nicola has any other SNP winner been interviewed?
And did you see and hear Burd’s face talking about poor Labour – before the list seats started coming in?
Seeeeek!
Radio shortbread:
Henry McLeish suggesting labour go down ‘Home Rule’ route and demand a referendum on a better deal for Scotland and grab a different flag.
There you are.
Since 2014 says Henry: it’s about 50:50 YES v NO
Labour can’t out nationalist the Nationalist or outunionist the Unionists
Another Tory hold in borders! Lamont.
Majority looks tight but no other party close with this split of the votes so government should be relatively straight forward.
The combined SNP Green MSPs will likely be enough for an Indy2 should the runes fall that way.
Not as good as the high predictions but we all knew that the tactical voting and mixed messages were having an impact. It was also a hard campaign to get people motivated as so many SNP supporters thought it was in the bag. Ruth’s Ulsterisation strategy pulled enough Labour votes to make them Tories second. Labour will need their heads testing if they go near the Tories in the next 5 years.
Not as good as the top end of our hopes but ball is still ours to play.
The unionist voters have wised up since 2014. Very true.
Radio shortbread:
Kezia worried about the tories being 2nd…Aye right.
Gary going strong on her flip flops (he must be a shoe man)
Federalism Kezia? Kezia not convinced it seems.
Someone drag her off with a crooked stick… Anyone!!
Still some hope.
link to twitter.com
My guess (left spreadsheets on home computer) is for list seats,
H&I 1 to 3
NE Scotland 1 or 2
South of Scotland 2 or 3
West of Scotland 0
Central Scotland 0
That’s a total of between 63 to 67 seats total.
Capella
It was 16 list seats last time and 53 constituencies.
I am listening to some Aberdonian Tory telling me that “we are distinctly Scottish with Scottish resolutions” How can anyone believe that?
So folk have voted for a rise in prescriptions, students leaving college with huge debts ,a bloody great WMD stuck right beside the largest conurbation , and the chance of the Westminster government given the right to take back and impose whatever they fancy.
And they voted for the lying Liberal democrats.
May I congratulate the BBBC , the Herald ,the Daily Record, the Sunday Herald , the National on their wins this evening – I hope you are duly proud of yourselves.
@Yesindyref2
Yeah, clocked the arsehole’s comment. Apparently we’re still to dim to understand.
FFS!
They’ve just received back to back gubbings and STILL its someone else’s failure.
Glum SNP faces in Dingwall but three finger salute from tories.
Maybe list votes 🙁 Soon find out.
Anas Sawar on again denying the evidence in the polls, tax proposal was popular he says. 🙂
Bad news:
Highland and Islands list result:
Tories 3, Labour 2, Greens 1 and SNP 1.
Absolutely gutted that Baillie got back in on constituency vote. There must have been Tories voting for her and her WMD because there seemed no Labour voters left who actually liked her.Or are we seeing ‘shy’ Labour now?
There does seem to be a core Better Together party now who make up about 25-30% of the electorate and who tactically vote between parties to block the SNP.
Looking like SNP 64 to me.
@ Tony and Brian, it looks as though the SNP can expect a good number of list votes. Listening to BBC radio you’d think it was bad news.
Presiding officer anyone…anyone except SNP 🙂
Every vote counts. Big Brian suggests.
Bad Highland result.
SNP had 3 last time and less than 1,000 votes short of 4 (the 2nd.Tory seat). I thought Greens might take one of them with John Finnie standing.
Highland haven’t put it on their twitter yet. Will be interesting to see the numbers. ie. how many Jean took for Rise.
No matter how they spin it after 9 years in government, to remain the government is incredible.
What’s hard is this bonkers ivoting system that the more votes you get the less seats, this is an artificial balancing act, it gives party’s with no real support a bigger say than the electorate gave them a mandate. It’s a stupid stupid system, imagine sitting your higher sat school and say you get 6 but the exam board take two away because someone who didn’t get the grades is allowed to take yours. Bonkers.
wtf Aberdeen!
If Labour do finish 3rd, then I honestly believe that London Labour will do some serious changes at the Branch Office so that whoever is in charge of it will find that each time they open their mouth, it will be Corbyn’s voice we will hear and not theirs.
I can’t see Scottish Labour being allowed to run amok again as they have done. The branch office should it finish 3rd will be a huge embarrassment to Corbyn and the party after a fairly disastrous last 10 days. The London mob will view the Branch Office as 2 elections; 2 severe kickings and led by people so out of their depth, that they couldn’t tell you what colour the sky is if asked to look out the window right there and then. Murphy and Dugdale over 2 campaigns have flipped-flopped that much on any issue that the Scottish public have no idea as to what Labour stand for. While London Labour said one thing, the Branch Office was saying something else, and then this very same office would change heir minds again only a few days later. It was no wonder that the Scottish voters didn’t have a clue as to what Scottish Labour stood for! Too many mixed messages over policies and personal opinions!
Well …they are a party sitting in oblivion right now. Can’t move to the left; can’t move to the right. Even the middle ground is gone since cheeky wee chappie Willie Rennie has that sown up!
So to the Scottish voter …what does Scottish Labour stand for? The answer…
Nothing.
John Finnie (green) elected on the H&I list. John Finnie, was SNP MSP, but left due to NATO nonsense. I guess he would be pretty pro indy.
Still angry at silly greens in Edi central letting Davidson win.
I have just had a quick look at the STV results site….really funny. Stephen Daisley still spouting shite bile and venom and it’s interspersed with ‘cartoons’ from a Neil Slorrance.
I think he gets someone to sharpen his crayons for him.
LIST votes confirmed! Highlands & Islands.
SNP 1
GREENS 1
TORY 3
LAB 2
LIB/DEM
LIST VOTES Cental Scotland.
(shortbread radio ….thought for today first FGS!)
SNP 0
TORY 3
GREENS 0
LAB 4
LIB/DEM 0
Central Scotland list votes , 3 Cons , Labour 5 WTF?
@Liz Rannoch
“Has anybody watched this all the way through? Apart from Nicola has any other SNP winner been interviewed?”
I missed the very start of the programme, but I was watching before the first result was declared, and the BBC briefly interviewed the first SNP winner, followed by John Swinney, then Nicola Sturgeon. I don’t think I’ve missed any others, whereas we’ve had numerous interviews with unionist winners and losers (even David Coburn), as well as Patrick Harvie. I could be wrong (in my defence I should have been sleeping long ago), but I think Oliver Mundell could be the only unionist winner not to have been interviewed.
That’s BBC impartiality for you!
Good old Glen suggesting the rainbow coalition could happen in Holyrood.
Who is the Liberal chap who drones on at how this is a material change for those supporting independence.
SNP 63 projected
TORY 31
LAB 24
GREENS 6
LIB/DEM 5
Prof Curtis has it.
Patrick gets a hand on the steering wheel but his other hand on our sensitive parts.
I’ll away and get ma cereal now.
Well done SNP still a great performance. We are where we are, carry on for Scotland.
I should stop watching this BBBC output ,it really depresses me.
Anas is rambling on with his SNP bad and will join with the Tories.
A fucking Lord says based on a bonkers voting system specifically designed to stop the largest party ruling without taking into account the others, then say that this should be extrapolated into a referendum on a constitutional issue is so corrupt a argument as to make him sound like a absolute screwball.
Strip away the system look at the total votes cast, then discuss what the will is, because my list vote was thrown in the bin by this system.
The Torys have been given a hand up above their ability, the very thing they oppose in any other walk of life.
Dave if Harvie thinks he can play games with the issue of Indy, I think Greens members will have an issue about that.
Isn’t this what the Greens wanted all along?
Makes you wonder if their decision to stand in Edinburgh Central, knowing they wouldn’t win, was a tactic to take votes away from the SNP.
Imagine if Ross Greer gets in and the SNP are dependant on his vote?
Chief SNP executive (Nicola’s man) should be sacked and NP policy doomed already suggests tory…Glen seizes the opening and tackles Hosie on live tv.
There you go. good old auntie!
West Scotland lists
SNP 0
GREENS 1
LAB 3
TORY3
LIB/DEM 0
Sadly, that Ross Greer (greens) is in, he will be much more of a problem for Patrick Harvie than anybody else.
Ross Greer FFS!
I am getting delirious now.
As predicted last night, even with the SNP back in power, and let’s say with only one seat less than last parliament, the media and Westminster’s servants will declare “a waning of support for independence”.
And that will be the mantra for the next five years.
Yet the obvious stares them in the face – by the mere repetition of that denial, and by the SNP back in power, the constitutional question is thee most pressing issue, larger than ever.
So, until the opposition face that question that’s how things will remain.
It would appear that Ruthies tactic of rerunning the referendum has paid off in spades where even labour voters have switched to Tory, such is their desire to prevent any rerun.
We can expect Ruthie to mention the ‘I’ word in every second sentence from now on.
As for labour, they are finished. They’ve run with the unionist pack and are reaping the rewards…
Ross Greer gets a seat ffs
Not the result I’d hoped for. But this is far from a disaster. Only possible governments look like minority (just) SNP with green support (that’s wightman, Finnie, Patrick and 3 others – sorry I fell asleep) or an actual coalition.
The ball is still in our court.
I have high hopes for further land reform etc.
And long term labour is utterly fucked beyond any pretence of a come back.in a few short years they have been replaced first as the dominant party in Scotland, then as Dom party of unionism. Now straight fight between Indy and toryism. Only one winner there.
Who do labour have at Holyrood? Ballie, Sarwar et al there is no way back for them. They are there at the mercy of tactical Tory voters and answer to them.
Was down a couple of hours back but spirits starting to lift.
I can’t bear that so many voted Tory, and media will be full of them, as if it’s not bad enough from WM. 🙁
Well seems to have been a lot of vote switching with the UKOK mob and the greens have basically shafted us. 2 short of a majority. Not a disaster. The issue has been polarised with yes/no split down the middle of Scotland.
So far this looks like being pretty much the same as before- a narrow SNP majority (with support of Greens) but with the Tories in place of Labour as the opposition. For me this makes for an interesting Parliament with the Tories being the main opposition.
The principle opposition party isn’t the Tories, Labour, or the Greens, it remains the thoroughly undemocratic BBC.
Every issue the SNP seeks to address is influenced by the media to a much greater extent than it is influenced by any opposition party. Sadly its a formula which shows no signs of changing any time soon, but it transends manifesto commitments and can turn black into white irrespective of public opinion. The SNP strategy to counter this Britnat propaganda is dysfuntional and the SNP have to grow a pair and do “something” to shake things up.
I am sick and tired of Scotlands elections being manipulated by 40% rules, PR systems designed to restrict any outright majority, but most of all I detest the blanket media coverage which decides for me what the result means. These media agencies and their influence seem to be invisible to much of our population, and it isn’t surprising. I know the media is corrupt and dedicated to preventing Scottish independence, and here I sit watching that very media for scraps of information just to form my own opinion. Ask yourselves, how can any campaign to do any one thing fare well when we have this grotesque filter between the events happening in our country and the people whom those events effect. It skews every single aspect of our daily lives.
I am not satisfied with the SNP. I cannot reconcile all the vitriol, contempt and acrimony for the likes of Rise and the Greens, sell out Bella Caledonia, duplicitious National and Sunday Herald, but scarcely a breath of criticism for the real corrupt media. You really want to sort out your priorities. Why scan the horizon for enemies when you’ve BBC news is in your livingroom?
I have a horrible foreboding that the SNP will never get us to Independence unless and until we can first of all confound the rancid media which so corrupts our country. Don’t you dare whine that Broadcasting is reserved, or we’d risk a horrible backlash, or the media would have a field day over this or that. Heads up. They are having a field day. They already have a chain and collar on Scotland’s elected government, and the power to change it into noose at random and whenever it suits. But hey, lets ignore all of that and worry about the Tories. Yeah. Lets keep ourselves busy. There’s nothing happening on the independence front for a while so it will pass the time if nothing else. We can’t touch the media so lets be savage on the Tories… that will help.
.
Dave
Yes you wonder what the BBC and the Torys have in common that the first thing that comes out of their mouths is any attempt to improve child protection, tell you what I will write into JIM WILL FIX IT, I am sure some BBC operatives will sit me down on his knee!
Sarwar isn’t a politician. He’s a sandwich board man.
My verdict is that absolutely no way the SNP should go into Colaition with the Greens it would be a disaster. It would reduce support for the SNP in the same way it killed the LibDems with the Tories, it will kill Scotland with any concessions over reidiculous hikes over income tax or APD, and it will kill Independence.
The SNP made a good fist of minority government from 2007 to 2011 leading to a majority and confidence in them to run Scotland. That got the support for Indy up to 45-50%.
They need sensible policies, supported by the Conservatives on tax and APD, Labour on welfare, even the LibDems to moderate justice matters. And Greens on fights against Westminster.
Then by 2021 support for Indy at hopefully 60% or more, Referendum in the SNP manifesto, large overall majority, Ref in 2021 or 2022, Indy in 2024.
Bugger.
Has the pro-independence vote increased?
Cmon then Breeks…offer some kind of solution to counter the media
This has been an absolute disaster for the Labour party. They have been completely shafted by the Tories. This is a great opportunity for the SNP though: They have a new target (or not so new) that they can aim at. Ruth Davidson will be a proxy for the Tory government down south giving Nicola ample opportunity to attack it. Interesting times.
The Greens. People were warned vote Green you get Tory. Some people will never learn. When they see them in action trying to muck up everything. They wouldn’t be so amused.
At least there is no UKIP.
In English council elections. 20 Labour seats when to UKIP not the Tories. After the Corbyn attacks. The Tories didn’t win the predicted 100 seat from Labour. Look good for the next GE election. SNP will hold the balance of power? FFA/Independence.
Cameron will not be so smug now. Why anyone would vote Tory in Scotland, after Thatcher is a mystery. Will Labour still carry in the same in Scotland, after they have destroyed their Party? Will they still unite with the Tories. Shows how important Scotland is in the UK. FFA/Independence.
Well done SNP once again, taking Scotland further.
I’m glad we are the biggest party – but not glad that we do not have a majority. SNP get the gloves off! If you are not going to get rid of the BBC /STV etc at least argue with them.
The thought of having that big baw face from the Tories on/im MSM every day/night and slimy Carlaw is too much. Glasgow has tory MPS . Expected of Edinburgh.
Hope Curtice is happy.
Massie
The force awakens and the union strikes back!
Just ‘your call’ with Kaye 🙂 Can hardly wait.
Oh! Ross Greer on now: youngest ever green shoot.
The boldest group will have influence but we will work with the SNP and be constructive.
I can see Patrick will have his hands full there …Oh wait he’s already got one hand on the steering wheel and the other one on…Aye Right!
Glad I had a sleep last night early on.
Finally Happy Birthday to me!
Green coalition the only hope really, reckon they will do a lib dem and fold on quite a few of their policies, esp 60% rate so think indyref2 still on
Here we fucking go. Scotland’s not a left leaning country blah blah…you don’t have an overall majority…Alex Massie: Tory Tory Tory…
Scunnered, was right to be nervous…All the unionist glowing and gloating.
Thanks for everything Rev. You tried. We are in fact insanely stupid as a country, I cannot believe the Tory result. All the No voters voted Tory. As for the likes of wee nyaffs like Greer and the Greens, I wouldn’t trust these people to be in any way constructive to our cause.
Back to ‘business as usual’ politics in Scotland.
Here’s my prediction: The prospect of ever getting another referendum under this ‘new’ mix in our parliament in Scotland is zero. Watch them it’s already started…fucking totally scunnered.
Does LD stand for “lost deposit?”
The major Party once again gets attacked by the BBC.
Curtice.. Will people every learn?
I’d feel a lot better about the results if Harvie wasn’t a self-serving weasel.
Bottom line is that you can’t trust the Greens – when they get a sniff of power their “principles” go right out the window. Classic example was Caroline Lucas and Brighton council – nobody with a brain down there is voting green again in a hurry.
Not a good result whichever way we try to spin it 🙁
It is very clear there is a polarisation taking place.Unionists moved to Tory and Labour have been abandoned as a credible opposition to the SNP. The Greens benefitted from their “et tu Brute” approach and probably picked up the undecided between Labour or “hold your nose” and vote Tory brigade.
I am not too disappointed.One Unionist party on the floor and one left to deal with.
At least with the Tories you have a clear target,rather than the ducking and diving of Labour. Scottish politics is developing into Unionist v Independence support.
Policy will play some part, but ultimately the fight for minds rather than hearts continues.
I find it incomprehensible myself that people could put an x in a Tory box,but there you go.
Breeks
Another excellent post.
Very well said.
Oh Dear
Just saw headline:
Nic’s back Labour whacked
Tories thrown a bone.
🙂 Good init!
I got landed with Willie Rennie as my MSP. Tories voting Lib Dem to keep the SNP out. How can there be this much hatred of a party, who in government, had done well by us? A coalition with the Greens and Davidson crowing that she took her seat from the SNP. I may have to leave Scotland.
Just heard Ian Gray on radio north Brits, saying he is great and the SNP are bad. He still doesn’t get it.
LOL. At the risk of being called a troll I think I might be the first …
… to congratulate the Greens on getting 6 seats in Holyrood, trebling their representation and making them a significant force in Scottish Politics. I don’t think they’re due (from memory) to get any in the S of Scot or Ne Scot. They do have a voice to make, especially with Land Reform, as long as they leave their taxation ideas firmly on the back-burner.
They did work hard, and so did their activists and members.
I’m off for a shower, fairly long day ahead and little sleep. Disappointing, but not the end of the road, just another twist, another bump in the road to Indy. Well, we’ve had them before. Onwards and Upwards!
3 votes in borders, jst need 2 more!
Of course with the Green likely to be a mouthy back-seat driver, we can expect some exciting land reform policies to come through on the statute book. I do hope all our new found Tories enjoy that.
@Polwarthian
You hold a plebiscite. You ask the Scottish population whether it wants our own broadcasting, and you give yourselves the public mandate to set up a Scottish broadcasting network. You don’t even have to touch the BBC, leave be, let it stew in its own juice, leave it behind.
Circumvent the media. Decide as a government which channels to use for distributing information. Step away from the mainstream, and use the commodity of information to beef up and empower those broadcasters and would be broadcasters who have the best potential as diligent, objective and fair commentators. The object is not Scottish TV for independence, but independence for Scottish TV. Massive difference….
If broadcasting is legally binding and prevented, use the Internet, podcasts. Have a regular news podcast which is a formal news service which distributes news but doesn’t broadcast.
Broadcast as a university training vehicle. Hospital radio for patients, University radio for politics. Have media students and trainee journalists shadow the corrupt media and cover their news with impartial perspective.
I have a lot more to say, but work is calling…
It was the 2nd list votes that did it. Scotland conned again. Thanks for the warning again, Stu. Some folk never learn.
Carlaw isn’t wasting any time is he. Restructuring of committees, hatchet jobs on the SNP well on its way…fucking bastards! Be assured they now feel very confident about openly declaring their contempt and are and will undermine the SNP even after we have ‘won’ this election, just because it’s not a ‘majority’. They will push hard now as they think they have the ‘manadate’…now we will see the truly astounding propaganda that’s coming our way, we ain’t seen nothing yet.
Happy Birthday, Callmedave.
You know, its not such a bad day now. We have a Scots Parliament with a pro indy majority – I’d call that a mandate, Jackson Carlaw. We have Nicola returned as FM, leading a massive SNP contingent. Quite a victory, if you think about it in the cold light of day.
So, given the challenges we face to seek indy ref2, things are not so bad. Would the greens ever countenance voting down a parliament bill for another referendum, no, I don’t think so. I think they would support it.
Aside from that creature Ross greer, who is awfully immature, there are good people elected for the greens – Andy Wightman (who I have a great deal of respect for), for Land reform, for which there is near consensus between green and SNP, and John Finnie, ex SNP (left over NATO vote), who I guess is very pro indy.
From my view, it is up to us all now, greens and SNP and other pro indy folk to work to create the momentum for independence once again. Nobody ever said it would be easy, but the results last night mean it is still a realistic idea.
We can either do the unionists job for them and fight amongst ourselves, or work for independence. The choice is ours.
Three on the list for the SNP from South Scotland
Still one list to go is that right?
Between a percentage of the 450,000 English people in Scotland, rich/upper middle class members, the Loyalists and the desperate Unionists so many votes going to the Tories isn’t as much of a surprise I guess.
Will be interesting to look at the full results and how some of the stuff like that Central 3 Tory and 4 Labour list seats happened
Happy birthday, Dave.
Well as far as possible.
The tories more than doubled their list vote in Highland!
To echo a point made by others, the message to the Tories is simply two words, ‘Land reform’. Coming your way. Boom.
Anybody monitoring the roads out of Scotland?
There were an awful lot of farmer types from Yorkshire doing the rounds in Moray/Inverness this week.
Coachloads of ’em.
Very unusual for the time of year.
I think labour voters tactically voting for Tories in constituency has screwed us, not the regional vote, NO voters voting for union without a thought for tory policies
Well, the good news is that the three unionist parties cannot get a joint majority for a grand UKOK coalition, even if they sweep all remaining 14 list seats to be declared.
SNP currently on 60 seats. Scotland NE and Scotland South lists to be declared, 14 up for grabs. Possible for a couple more SNP there?
I agree that the SNP would be best to form a minority government, rather than go into coalition with the Greens. There are too many policies whereby Greens not quite right: they want to BAN fracking, but that would lead to SG getting sued in courts; much better to have a moratorium (i.e. de facto rather than de jure ban).
But in terms of independence, good that even already there is a “pro-indy” majority if you count SNP and “good Greens” (like Finnie, for example).
Now we understand better how the BBC works — and how important the list votes are. But will we remember five years down the line in 2020?
Overall, the Labour vote has collapsed, largely gone to the Tories. But amazing the SNP has increased slightly its overall share of the vote after 9 years in government.
Will be interesting to watch Labour implode. Will the more leftist rump finally join the SNP and push us over 50% for indy?!?
Looking at the major talking points, my view on the results is thus
– After such a spectacular high in 2011, there was always a good chance that it might not be repeated. The SNP would still do well, but personally, I could really see them winning a ‘comfortable’ majority. It was always going to be close, and at this point in time, it still is. If the SNP do get a majority, then they will be crawling over that finish line.
– At the same time, many who voted SNP may not truly advocate SNP policies. I for one, find some of the policies within the Green Party interesting. I’ve heard Andy Wightman speak and I was actually impressed at how he conducted himself; assured, knowledgeable and unflappable. I suspect many Independence voters have given one vote to the SNP and one vote to the Greens. To me, that tells me that while the SNP may have over 100,000 members, there might be a decent percentage in that who don’t agree with everything that the Party says. They will vote for them, but will also vote in other directions too. Rather than being ‘fanatical’ nationalists, it could be said that the nationalist movement has quite a variety of views and therefore, displays a very democratic nature by looking in all directions for ideas and guidance. This might be something that the SNP will have to take on board. If many Scottish nationalists (and even SNP members) like Green policies, then the SNP will not only have to take that into consideration, but reluctantly, might have to work with it too!
– The end of Scottish Labour. Finished.
– The rise of the Scottish Tories. Without a doubt …but who is it that is voting for them? Straightaway, we would say the affluent, the British luvvies, possibly a lot of English folk who moved to Scotland …but more disturbingly for Ruth …could it also be the likes of the Orange Order. Ruthie’s mantra of ‘No, No, No’ over independence sounds a lot like Ian Paisley when he used to cry ‘Never, Never, Never’. In my opinion, I think there is an uneasy similarity there. Orange voters may have moved from traditional Labour, and have now gone over to Ruth with her tub-thumping British values. A good result for Ruth, but in the future, she may have to shake hands with a lot of unpleasant folk who have very odd ideas.
If one of the other parties provide the Presiding Officer it will be a dead heat!
No overall majority by the looks of it , but we have been here before , Nicola can handle that . If we have learned one thing from this election , it should be , do no be influenced at all by a lot of the media that is around . Be it mainstream or internet , the media plays a big role in how we vote . Bella Caledonia telling us to split votes , the National telling us to split votes , Rise and Greens ,( who should have been targeting unionist votes ) trying to get SNP votes , the BBC doing what it does best , rubbishing the SNP a any given chance .Let us have learned a lesson here , vote for your party and your party only , do not let yourself be influenced by those who would wreck our chances of being in government .
Thanks for Birthday wishes. 70!
I’m slightly disappointed but not downhearted.
Labour dross has been sifted through the sieve and the unionist lumps remain it’s a straight fight now between YES v NO it was always going to come to that.
Wait till the dust settles and we’ll see.
Q:Do the minority parties still keep the same seats in Holyrood or is there a bit of swapping?
Just been watching the EBC propaganda channel, One more seat for the SNP, then give the presiding office post to another party, bingo -an SNP majority.
call me dave: Aye, North-East Scotland to declare list seats. Seven list seats up for grabs. SNP currently on 63 seats overall. Two would be magic!
At this stage, I would be happy even for one, because even 64 plus one good Green (like Finnie) would be a majority of sorts, which would be an incredible result after the BBC has thrown Ruthie and the kitchen sink at us.
It is quite a victory. Its only a disappointment if you consider the hopes people had of another big swing towards the SNP.
I just find it shocking that so many bought the Ruth Party advertising, this is the Tories and I cannot think of one policy area that benefits Scotland.
I did not expect the SNP to take all the constituencies but i am surprised;
1. That the conservatives gained so much from a
collapsing Labour vote.
2. That the Lib Dems did so well given how low
their credibility has fallen.
However got to consider the non-stop SNP bad and relentless media and BBC attacks.
Kev @ 8:33
Yes. I think that is the biggest effect of the night.
Especially the “without a thought for Tory policies”. Davidson got the votes, not Cameron. However there is only one Tory party.
When NE is in, if Greens or SNP get one seat, then the number of Indy seats is down one (inc Margo’s). That assumes the Greens remain an Indy party! That will be their big test. We don’t want ‘bold’ politics, we want pro Indy politics.
Oh, and the Labour manifesto stated the presiding office post should not go to the biggest party. Good on you Labour!!
Down to the wire, it seems.
Looked at from another perspective Ruthie may not find being the party of opposition much to her liking in the long game. She ran a referendum campaign. Set herself up as the voice of the union and Westminster in Scotland. That is the be all and end all of her campaign and its relevance to government in Scotland.
So Ruthie is effectively the go to girl for whatever legislation Westminster passes on Scotland.
Geddit? 🙂
No chance of 2 list MP’s from North east region?
Or is that ship gone ?
If the greens are fourth ahead of the libdems, then surely the libdems will lose their right to two questions at FMQ’s, which the greens will gain. Is that correct??
JLT-reading social media it appears many working class no voters have voted Tory for the union with loads of comments admitting they are Rangers/Orange order. No surrender!!
Call me dave,
Regarding seats in the chamber, I think they should just have a race. More entertaining than most parliamentary business. 🙂
The same old ‘vacant coupons’ get voted out and back they come again. The SNP should have changed it when they had the chance and stopped the voted out from coming back on the lists for two years. A new person has to be brought in. It really is an affront to democracy.
What’s a ‘fanatical’ Independence supporter?
@Robert Louis
Le Mans start?
Come back Jim Murphy, all is forgiven!
Better the Murph than the Ruth 🙁
Macart,
I agree. Having the Tories as the second party will make Nicola’s job much, much easier.
Thought 3 seats from borders was lucky, north east could maybe provide 2, but doubt it
Macart,
Aye a race, but then again, poor jackie Baillie might just get a seat at the back…or even nae seat!
It was the pigs wot won it.
Just for a laugh, couldn’t they make Johan Lamont presiding officer?
55% TO, not disastrous, but the stay at homes might have made a difference. I am tempted to use the OBE tactic and assume that ALL the Non-Votes were actually happy with the SNP, so in fact Scotland support for SNP Government is at about 70% 🙂
On a serious note, there are lessons to be learned, but most of these are outside the SNP’s hands. The Corp Media & BBC have done a good job in deciding this election.
However, despite 95% of the media being anti-SNP, they finished a hair’s breath away from outright majority, and can lead a minority Gov. (I would NOT recommend any formal deal with the Green party – I don’t trust them one inch)
The BBC is being very sexist with their all male presenters and all male panel of politicians.
call me dave: Congratulations!!
I think another thing this election has taught us is that we have to listen to Wings and ScotGoesPop. They called the results, especially James Kelly on the List vote.
With hindsight, RISE and Solidarity should have been backing the SNP en masse. But it was impossible tae predict.
But this d0es suggest that we need to finance Wings tae gr0w as an alternative media tae the BBC. It is nae enuff tae talk af boycotting BBC interviews. We need tae grow oor ain BBC!
Illogical rant from Daisley of STV.
He has forgotten about the Hitler saluting better togetherists then?
Former Scottish Labour leader Johann Lamont loses seat
Former Scottish Labour leader Johann Lamont loses her Glasgow Pollok seat to the SNP’s Humza Yousaf.
The ex-teacher oversaw the party between 2011 and 2014 and as such was a senior figure in the Better Together campaign for Scotland to stay in the Union. As referendum rhetoric grew more embittered, Lamont became an unlikely hate figure for hardline nationalists. Misogyny and class prejudice were never far from the surface in pungent social media commentary and if Lamont managed to get under the skin of Alex Salmond at First Minister’s Questions, it was as nothing compared to the vitriol she attracted from the cybernats.
Ironically, her spectacular post-referendum resignation from the Labour leadership handed the Nats a stick with which to beat the party. Scottish Labour, she told the Daily Record, was not an autonomy organisation but a mere “branch office” of the UK party. The sobriquet was taken up by the SNP and deployed to deadly effect, framing Scottish Labour as handmaidens of their Westminster masters and a party which did not have Scotland’s interests at heart.
Since she stepped down, Scottish Labour has become more independent of the UK leadership but remains in free fall.
Lamont held Glasgow Pollok since the constituency’s creation in 1999 for the first elections to the reconvened Scottish Parliament. A passionate but practical socialist, Lamont used her four terms at Holyrood to press equality issues and campaigned on men’s violence against women and girls. Of late, she has become an avid user of Twitter, using the social media site to post updates on her campaign – and her beloved Coronation Street.
Lamont’s only chance of returning to Holyrood is being elected on the Glasgow regional list, where she is placed second behind Anas Sarwar. It seems a safe bet that she will take a list seat but on a night like tonight, no Labour politician will be taking anything for granted.
– Stephen Daisley, digital politics and comment editor
Are there still 14 seats to go?
The two main features of election results, on percentage changes.
Firstly, Labours percentage loss moved totally to the Tories.
Secondly, SNP percentage loss went to the Greens.
I believe this election has witnessed the death of Labour in Scotland. Politics here are now predominantly split between Nationalism and Unionism. The Unionist vote has rallied to whichever Party was best positioned to defeat the SNP, in their constituency.
Looks like we’re coming up just short,so the list screwed us right enough.
Still think SNP will be able to govern authoritatively, and it may help broaden the Independence debate away from just SNP only.
Nicola should be able to horse trade with the left and the right to get the right mix of policy through.
Ken 500
Only one region to declare, so 7 left
SNP on 63 MSPs
Two list seats unlikely, so one short of majority.
SNP had tremendous result! Sorry Tony being beaten in Edinburgh Western but the filthy lies pouring through my door from LibDem Cole-Hamilton re Michelle Thomson must come home to roost when we examine HIS election expenses. Where did they get the money?
Ruthie must be seen as the toxic Tory that she is. No more mad bull deflection.She is the party of Government in the UK. Will she get Cameron be fair to Scotland???
Listened to Ross Greer from the Greens on BBC. He sounded reasonable. Has he suddenly grown up?
Who will be the Presiding Officer?
Rise got less votes than the United Christian Party.JHC!
The dream is still alive but let us be very careful. The world is changing and we must be clever.
As I began my short journey to the polling station who should appear out of her cathedral standard gates but Rowling and hubby, he driving their shiny big black SUV, she still putting on lipstick. I hoped they were on their way to the same place and we met there so I could shout, “Both votes SNP, JK!”
I’m no political expert but that splitting the SNP list vote seems to have worked out quite well.
Ach well. Nothing really changed, We’ll see what the Green’s are made of. Not a lot I suspect. D’Hont wins. Is independence on the back burner? Fuck no! Tories come second? Bring them on.
She’ll have to stop riding buffalos.
Well the Tories have POMP to thank.
‘POMP’ – Power Of Mainstream Media’
I am disappointed at not having an overall majority but in terms of policy I am glad that the greens will probably have a decent influence in terms of the environment, land reform etc. I am nervous about the outcome of a potential push for indyref2 and how it could be derailed.
Going fwd, the Tories down south are failing on economic policy simply because they fail to understand economics. There WILL be another financial crisis – not because of exogenous (outside) factors but simply BECAUSE of the economics of torydom. I want our Westminster MPS to call them out NOW so that they can turn round to the Tory numptocracy in Scotland and say – we told you so.
Still dismayed as I was this time last year at the number of Tory seats. No I’m fucking raging.
I’m sure I’ll be corrected if this is wrong but doesn’t this mean that SNP voters in the heartlands should have voted Green on the list?
Hm. Seems the SNP x 2 mantra didn’t work.
Fact is that all the dumping on the Greens backfired. The SNP’s massive share of the list yielded less MSPs than the Greens on a fraction of vote. Had even ONE PER CENT of that SNP list vote gone Green it wouldn’t have effect the SNP total but given two more Greens.
Question is, is the Rev be big enough to admit he got the tactics badly wrong?
If it’s an overall majority for indy you wanted, we’ve got it. If the “material shift” in circumstance happens and we get the opportunity to go for a second referendum, then we’ll want to work together again in as a broad ‘Yes’ movement. That has a far, far better chance of success than a policy identified with a single party.
I hope some of you get over your disappointment and grasp that. This is meant to be a pro-independence site, but became a (virtually) unquestioning cheerleader for the SNP. In doing so it missed the bigger picture.
Time to refocus, folks. The prize is still there within our reach – if you’re big enough to take it.
Despite the disappointment of losing a majority, the SNP left Holyrood with only 64 MSPs under the ‘whip’, so they in effect maintained their position. A sound result after nine continuous years in power and the (virtual) entire media against you.
They managed the minority government extremely well between 2007-2011, and in my personal opinion, I think Nicola can do a better job than Alex in the current situation.
Stuart Hosie (I think it was he) said that the result means that the SNP does not have the mandate to pursue ALL its policies. This is a good opening gambit and sets the stall for some compromises with the Greens on the one hand, and perhaps even constructive Cons on the other.
So I hope there is NO formal coalition with the Greens, who I distrust (despite liking many of their policies) or the LDs who I wouldn’t touch with the proverbial.
Indy2 now realistically out of our hands. I hope that the UK remains in the EU on the back of Scotland’s vote, which I suspect would precipitate a complete rethink in WM about whether hanging on to Scotland had been such a good idea. We may get our Independence “forced” upon us.
Duh!
POMP – Power of Mainstream Press!
Before getting too carried away with whether or not there will be a IndyRef2 surely it would be better concentrating on how to convince NO voters to vote YES.
Bad news: SNP picked up nae list seats in NE, final results:
63 SNP
6 Green
So SNP largest party and Greens knock Lib Dems into fifth place!
Watching all the list msp’s getting announced, holy mother, what a rip off. Tories are jumping around, this is a sickening site and for me has just reinforced my efforts even more to push for independence. This could over the next while see a section of the remaining labour vote come over to the YES side?
Brilliant results. Labour dead. Tories back and will play the villain we all love to hate. Lib Dems relegated behind the Greens. Easily got numbers for an indyref2 mandate if we face a Brexit.
Superb.
Looks like it won’t be a SNP majority – but it’s a clear Pro-Yes majority.
It was always going to difficult to replicate a single party majority with the D’Hondt system, so there are no real surprises in that. I always suspected that a D’Hondt single majority would be as rare as hen’s teeth!
The Tories as the opposition will focus people’s minds. They styled themselves as the last redoubt of Unionism and gained some votes in that from Labour voters switching over. The problem for Unionists is that the Tories ARE the LAST REDOUBT OF UNIONISM.
The Tories remain toxic in Scotland – and everyone knows it. Now Unionism is associated with them, well it doesn’t look good long term for Unionist prospects does it? The Tories have picked up a short term bounce as they collect Unionist votes but this will be the beginning of the end for the Union long term.
Let’s see what the EU referendum brings. We live in interesting times!
Disappointing NE result. So that’s it then, SNP 63. They say the Conservatives are back in the NE, but let’s face it, they only managed 1 constituency seat in the North-East, the rest are SNP, andthe SNP had more than twice as many votes in the list than the Tories.
So the battle lines for Indy Ref 1 were SNP + Greens / SSP / RIC v Labour, but for Indy Ref 2 it’s SNP + Greens / SSP (?) / RIC v Westminster UK Tories. I kind of think that gives the Pro-Indy side a big advantage this time…
Final result
SNP -6
Green +4
Margo -1
Total Indy -3
Tory +16
Labour -13
LibDem NC
Total Unionist +3
Still an Indy majority, though.
Unionist total 60
SNP 63
Green 6
…. assuming Greens deliver on Indy when called upon to do so.
Taking a step back though,
It’s quite an incredible result for the SNP considering the beating they get in MSM on a daily basis.
Dr ew,
Aye, nice try.
Question for Labour is do they want to oppose independence forever and rely on Tory voting no voters. Or move on with the support they have and back independence. Clearly the hardcore unionists in Edinburgh etc came out to stop Scotland. And yes at least half of them will be incomers from down South.
Dr Ew
Ew are an idiot. I am too tired to explain why and you are probably too stupid to realise that you are too stupid to understand any reasons I could put to you to prove that you are an idiot.
Yesindyref. You have cheered me up, I like that.
Onyways, if a “material change of circumstances” happens, and steady majority support for a YES causes the SNP to call for Indy Ref 2 in Holyrood, the Resolution goes SNP 63, Greens don’t know (their 1,000,000 petition), Tories 31 against, but which way will Labour vote – or will they abstain?
Mmmm, interesting times …
Frustrating when you think they came within a thousand votes.
Jaba’s seat and Edinburgh central.
Complacency was the enemy – partly caused by Green/rise strategy of telling people the SNP majority was safe.
They may have cost us the chance of a second referendum.
Will BBC Scotland still continue to flog the dead horse that is Scottish labour? if they get behind Ruthie n co it’s going to be interesting
@Robert Louis
Exactly so.
I know its billed as FMQs, but I think Ruth may find herself in the position of having to defend UK legislation quite a lot.
Its looking to be 63 or 64 at the moment and the Greens trebling their seats. People that can be worked with and on the issue that counts a good chance of common ground.
So to list the pros:
1. Still a strong SNP government and a historic third term
2. Opposition is a one issue one point of contact repository for all things yoon
3. The gate of popular sovereignty is still held open for the people to choose
4. Greens rather than Libs for the fourth question (at this point)
5. Labour heartland collapse and in terminal turmoil
Cons
1. Meeja spin will be all about Ruthie
2. There are some areas where I think SNP and Greens won’t be able to come to consensus on legislation
3. Labour have been left an open goal for repositioning (though I doubt they’ll take the opportunity)
Not a bad night’s work. 🙂
Dear Kezia Dugdale,
I understand the difficulties your wee sub branch of the British Labour party are having. Have you considered, you could turn your fortunes around overnight by changing your stance to Scottish independence.
Scotland has changed, and your party hasn’t.
Not rocket science.
Regards,
the people of Scotland.
Pro Independence vote have majority in Scottish Parliament. Independence support has gone up?
Typical BBC stop an interview in Scotland to declare a result in Wales,
If SNP hand over the Presiding officer’s job it should have a virtual majority on almost every vote as surely Labour can’t be seen to vote with the Tories… oh wait it’s only SNP amendments they don’t support.
Well the narrative was that to have a stronger voice from a second pro-independence party would be good for Indy2
The SNP and Greens have a comfortable majority so we are about to put that to the test.
Mildly disappointed we didn’t pick up three or four more seats but mightily relieved that the Yoon vote remains split and they didn’t latch onto the SNP/anyone else strategy until the last couple of weeks. Having done it now we can see the results and hopefully will not have to go through that again.
Be not disheartened we are still the government and no one else is even close.
5 more years it is.
Crunching the numbers indicates that the SNP total vote has actually increased.
The voting system has cost them the majority. More support than ever for the SNP .
The dream is still very much alive and kicking.
yesindyref2 Labour have been dogged in their assertions that they would vote against indyref2… fundillymundilly they want to talk about cuts, cuts, cuts and want everyone to move on. That’s their take home message, I’d be astonished if anything that has occurred over night makes an iota of difference. Jeez they can’t even accept that they are in terminal decline even after this result!
yesindyref2 says:
” … v Westminster UK Tories. I kind of think that gives the Pro-Indy side a big advantage”
That’s the way I am looking at it.
To Yes and soft No having the Tories more in their face, can’t be bad. Labour are in no position to be the face of BetterTogether2.
Ruth won, not the underlying toxic Tories. The toxic element will soon become apparent.
I can live with this result. I’m not despondent, because the SNP vote has held up, its just that the Unionists have got smarter with their voting.
Its now SNP vs Tories, thats the way it should be, and there will be only one winner. Labour are between a rock and a hard place and will have to fall one way or the other.
If the price of Green influence is a harder line on fracking, more land reform, keep up the renewables, I can live with that too.
Maybe this could be a step towards reuniting the Yes movement. And we should be hearing less of the ‘one party state’ pish also.
Shoot me down in flames, I dont give a shit. Im just a humble foot soldier, and will continue doing all the dumb work I can for the SNP and independence. Wee Ginger Dug’s unicorn piece yesterday (or was it the day before, its all been a bit of a haze) is something I wont forget.
Ach I think it’s all quite positive.
I just heard Ross Greer on the radio and he sounded more pro indy than Swinney did.
Ultimately, the referendum, when it happens again is what it’s all about.
The SNP have to continue to be all things to all people but the Greens can noise things up a bit. Especially regarding Fracking.
No more Rennie first minister questions has to be a good thing.
So, there is once again a pro-indy majority in the Scots Parliament. Can anybody with their fingers on the actual numbers tell me, is the pro indy support (including greens) higher than the last session of the parliament?
Onwards, don’t worry, we have a pro indy majority now in the Scots Parliament. I very much doubt the greens would block a bill for a referendum, especially considering the conditions which the SNP have already made very, very clear. At the very worst (and I really don’t ever see it happening) they would abstain.
It is up to all of us now, to ignore those who seek to divide the pro indy movement. Yes, elections are a messy business sometimes, but we are where we are. It is ALL still for the taking regarding independence.
AndyH, at 0931am
Aye, that is it, in a nutshell. Now we work to get indyref2.
The problem with seeking outright majority is that sometimes you fail. The whole SNP 1&2 tactic, and i’ll qualify this by saying IN SOME AREAS, was not a sound one. I’m in Central Scotland where the vote was predicted to be solid SNP. Tactically, I gave my second vote to the Greens as all those second votes could have helped weaken the unionist list vote. Instead the unionist took the list, lock, stock and barrel.
grendel, at 0935am,
The election is over. Sometimes elections are messy. Now it’s about getting independence again, and on that we agree.
Ken500 says:
6 May, 2016 at 9:24 am
Pro Independence vote have majority in Scottish Parliament. Independence support has gone up?
funny I heard a Tory say that kills the independence debate for a generation as the SNP didn’t get a majority?
In fact you would be mistaken for thinking the Tory’s won the election given their comments of being the official opposition in a system that doesn’t have one, oh they get to ask the first question at first ministers questions, er, that’s it.
Asked the shop today for a national, they said as I voted for the national 4 days in a row I had to take a Record “D’Holt newspaper system!”
FFS Tories crowing already. The Tories have failed in England. Out next GE? SNP could hold balance of power. FFA/Independence
Toxic Tories. I predict that this is not a long term comeback for the Tories.
With Cameron in WM and his foreign legion in Holyrood, their toxicity will be made abundantly clear all over again. I’m sure the SNP will make sure of that!
Green vote. Did they improve their position because of their ‘sparkling and bold’ policies, or because they split the Indy vote? If the latter, then the must deliver on the constitution when the opportunity arises.
Rise/Solidarity. Looking at the figures, I don’t think they got enough votes to effect the result overall.
What we will now have are the three tory party’s at Holyrood combining to do what they can thwart the Scottish Government implementing its policy manifesto.
As for the Greens I would not rely nor put much faith in them backing the Scottish Government.
I am glad Jenny Gilruth in winning the Glenrothes seat has managed to double the majority Tricia Marwick left her.
@ Robert Louis : (Agreed)
Have to say it; chameleon shift of Red Tory to Blue Tory is a big eye opener (although we’ve always suspected it) that shift it is still displayed in such a stark fashion all over Scotland.
Yoons United !
GIRUY Labour serves yez right.
It is a good result from the YES point of view. I would wait to see the actual numbers before coming to a conclusion but it looks like the SNP have achieved a good win under a system which is designed to prevent that and a media which is rabidly unionist.
In Aberdeenshire West the SNP lost its MSP to the Tories who clearly got all the Unionist votes. Unlike 2011, the SNP didn’t pick up any list votes. It will be interesting to compare the outcomes.
A good result overall.
Thats the problem with the system the more 1st votes you win the less list seats .
I think if you look at 2011 it was a perfect storm ,the yoons rigged the parliament so that could not happen but like everything else they were crap at it.
So what if wee Patrick wants to play lets let him but of course he should be reminded by us the Scottish people that if we do let him in government then he had better damn listen to us.
Oh thats right Patrick and you greens we are not the SNP we are your BOSS ,i suggest you make us happy,we are always watching and if we turn on you ,well take a look at the mighty Labour.
Its a cracking result the yoons flung everything at us including the kitchen sink and the SNP raised what was already an impressive 1st vote and lets not forget these are elected MSP`s not sneaked in the back door ones.
The green vote increased and looks like it held on to those indy voters they got during the referendum,which at no point would you have seen me saying that they should vote for the SNP,eh thats not the way it works.
If we wish to show those yoon fools democracy in action inside their pretendy little parlaiment then its not wise to stray even if slightly of the path,and the yoons jumped all over it one party state playing to the old fear of anything communist,it didnt matter if we knew it was crap those suckers who think big bad Russia is going to attack us did not,some may vote SNP in the 1st vote and use the second as a vote for opposition ,i know thats not how it works they dont,and then wait for it there are those who could not give a flying fuck for any politician or party but wouldnt mind Scotland being free.
Take it as a lesson SNP guys you cant always have your cake and eat it,now get your heads out your arses you dont own the indy movement and stop being bitter and twisted about other indy folk you are reminding me of yoons and i know yoons i was in Labour for years,i fought at the battle of the parliament against those scumbags we won the battle but lost the war.
But we did not go away
Now can we get back on with the important thing and leave all that nonesense behind ,Nicola has a clonking mandate thats what we set out to do,the SNP will be in government again what we set out to do,the greens gave us a big surprise and look like they are ready (about time Patrick thought you would never get there),not what we set out to do but yes we like it and will be expecting more in 2017(dont let us down Patrick)
Now yessers,wingers,SNP,greens,rise,ssp,us old battle scared gits from the 70`s who thought we could change Labour its time to put our differences behind us,because non of this matters a fuck while we are not free.
The Yes Movement.
Thanks for all your work Rev if you keep banging their heads they might figure it out one day 😉
I stand by my prediciton that Slabour will split. Fighting with the right wing unionist Tories over votes and losing. Will not sit comfortably with moderate Slabour MSP’s or the party members. I see a pro indy Slabour party coming. That would change everything.
Aw well the council elections next year.
Well done SNP
Looks like about 50K of SNP for constituency/Other for list votes across the whole of Scotland.
By my fag packet calculations, West of Scotland and Lothian regions are where the split vote actually had any kind of impact based on 2 assumptions:
1) All those who voted RISE or Solidarity and maybe some who voted Green were tempted from SNP not other parties
2) People actually did fall for the whole ‘split the vote’ thing
Equally, JaBa held on by barely 100 votes! Taking that seat would have made no change to the list allocation but one more constituency would have really stuck the knife in to Labour. And looking at that band of blue along the border makes me want to boak.
Today is not a day for over-analysing where it went wrong, if anything did. We are where we are. The SNP are still better off than 10, 20 or 30 years ago and we must maintain a sense of realism.
Well done to all those new MSPs as well as those that were re-elected.
Is the lesson for next time to be far more relaxed about the list vote? Taking the west of Scotland as an example, 135,000 votes wasted.Would half of those going to the Greens not have ensured two more Greens and fewer unionists?
It is all too easy to look at the results and assume that it was a clear shift from Red to Blue – but was it ? The Lib dums won their seats on a very strong local support – probably shows that their MSP’s in the 4 regions do a hell of a lot of work for their constituency.
Wee Ruthie only won because of the greens standing is a fair assumption, and the other FPTP seats that the Tory’s won were other than Ruthie’s in the better off areas – Aberdeen West, the borders, Ayr and Eastwood. All areas with a higher than average proportion of holiday homes, well off retirees etc. How many postal votes from the various Static Caravans in these areas I wonder?
So they love their free bus passes, prescriptions and elderly care when it comes to them, but they are not willing to support those that gifted them in the first place? Bloody hypocrites in the extreme, period.
Looks to me like the Tories focused their campaign perfectly, whilst Labour just gave up before they even got started. Also looks like not enough of the SNP vote from the last time got to the polling booths.
Ruby at 9:10
Before getting too carried away with whether or not there will be a IndyRef2 surely it would be better concentrating on how to convince NO voters to vote YES.
That is one of the wisest things ever said.
Given the “support” the corporate media gave the SNP it’s an amazing result. Then again I could be talking mince because I haven’t been to bed yet. Gutted for Dennis Robertson in Aberdeenshire West. That lump of blue in the middle of the map of Scotland makes me ill.
The media will play the conservative revival for all it’s worth but the Ruthie party is a shallow vessel. It will be interesting to see if the red tories at the BBC will become blue tories or if they ship in a new crew.
The SNP have been voted in for a 3rd time.
Onwards and upwards.
Just the unionist deck chairs in a different position that’s all.
Be of good cheer it’s do-able the punters will see how we get on with less pocket money. The real CMD will make sure of that.
Then Ruthie will be stuck between us jocks and a Harvie place ,pressure on them both to deliver.
Westminster now has its foot in Holyrood and battle lines are drawn. It simplifies things – and it divides along socioeconomic lines too.
Big question is the true heart (and brain) of labour in Scotland – as genuine believers in a social democratic future independent Scotland or as kith and kin of the Westminster system of privilege.
We have a pro indie parlie majority. The Yoons would be delighted to see the SNP and Greens having a go at each other
I think the Greens can be trusted in indie as I’m sure they know it’s the main reason for their increase in votes
I was for SNPx2 but we’ve been dealt something else, let’s stay upbeat
SNP half the vote but no majority? Looks good for Independence.
When the dust settles pro Indy v the tories in our parliament is great news. Labour were our big problem and they have been destroyed. The fly in the ointment is Aberdeen, Edinburgh and the borders that’s half the country. How do we do it?
Kezia must surely see who labour’s real enemies in Scotland are now and work with the SNP to remove the Tories from Scotland.
McTernan shouting that Scotland will not get a 2nd Independence Referendum in the Torygraph.
Ken500 says:
SNP half the vote but no majority? Looks good for Independence
When its an Independence vote the second homers, and expats will be registering via family addresses in Scotland, so dont extrapolate too much.
harry mcaye says:
6 May, 2016 at 9:54 am
Is the lesson for next time to be far more relaxed about the list vote? Taking the west of Scotland as an example, 135,000 votes wasted.Would half of those going to the Greens not have ensured two more Greens and fewer unionists?
But we HAVE a YES majority with SNP+Greens as it is. Assuming Greens support a new referendum when the time comes, which is a pretty big assumption given their history.
What the SNP need is a majority for their budget, confidence motions and for tricky legislation, and bar a few niche issues, the Greens are the LAST party anyone would trust to deliver those.
SNP polled 42% on the last and got 48% of the seats. There is nothing to complain about from the SNP’s position. The Labour party and the RISE/Solidarity awkward squad will now self immolate. The Tories will smug it up and grab the headlines and achieve nothing but publicity in dying media organs. The Greens will ask for crazy policies and get none of them. Should be an interesting year till the local government elections and the bonfire of the Labour council hegemonys.
Where have all the avatar’s gone. Only a few recognised and published.
Macandroid says:
6 May, 2016 at 10:06 am
Kezia must surely see who labour’s real enemies in Scotland are now and work with the SNP to remove the Tories from Scotland.
That’s not how left wing politics works. The SNP may be the vile opposition, but Labour and Kezia’s enemies all have Labour party membership cards.
I love the SNP, I cant think of anything they stand for that I disagree with, but I also like some green policy’s, I thought Ross Greer’s answer on the constitution question on GMS was excellent “I Am YES I want Scotland to be independent and it cant come soon enough for me” well that had me cheering! as for land reform, I think the Tory’s face is going to be slapped pretty hard on land reform, politically that should be the first big policy movement, there is nothing that will infuriate the Tory’s more than radical land reform, actuality its not radical it will just fix a system that needs fixing and has been for decades. It will be a major defeat for the Ruth = conservatives and prove to everyone who holds the power in Scotland, those including the greens who actually care about Scotland, so election over real politics has just begun, bring it on!
Anagach says:
When its an Independence vote the second homers, and expats will be registering via family addresses in Scotland, so dont extrapolate too much.
Aye but no S on their tax code and no vote, just a suggestion 😉
Not sure that the Greens are a pro-independence party. Have a feeling they may be moving towards a closer association with English Greens. Why else would Natalie Bennett come up to help during the election? A bit like head honcho fro Unionist party visiting the branch office.
Well we know what’s coming from the media now. Five years of “Nationalists lose mandate for independence” and “Scotland affirms it’s No vote” etc.
Doesn’t matter if people point out that there is still a pro Indy majority because the entire press will continue to equate independence with “nationalists” and “nationalists” with the SNP.
We were both SNPx2 so it’s gutting to lose the majority, but this result has a silver lining. Labour are irrelevant. The Tories are now the flag wavers of Unionism, which sets out a clear left/right divide. Ruth is going to have to oppose SNP and Green policy and defend disgusting Westminster unionist policy.
Legerwood says:6 May, 2016 at 10:17 am
“Not sure that the Greens are a pro-independence party”
I don’t care! as long as two of them are we have a mandate to call Indy ref 2 and the majority to do so!
@T.roz
It gets better. This is my posting to a Herald thread:
“Yes, the Conservatives are now the second largest party, with 31 seats., and 22.0% of the constituency vote, but that effectively destroys the Union.
Their underlying vote was at around 14% to 15%, but they stole the 7% from Labour by asserting they were “the party of the Union”.
So that’s 7% who are violently anti-Independence and say half of their normal vote is also strongly pro-Union, that means only 15% of Scotland is unchangeably against Independence. Presumably those who voted Labour and LibDem aren’t that fussed or they’d have changed to voting Tory.
So that’s 85% who could vote YES next time.
David Cameron might like to think about that. “
It’s important to remember that those that did vote Slabour, are the last of the real Labour voters. So where they go is important. The pretendy Red Tories went back home. So we are left with a hardcore of Slabour voters looking for a home. I reckon this will be the fnal straw and many will embrace independence. You might even find some of their MSP’s jumping ship in a powerless 3rd.
The SNP have won the majority of constituency seats where voters had a direct choice between parties. The list system has made that gap seem closer than it actually is, and as a consequence,denied a majority. On numbers alone ,most people had voted for SNP either on constituency or list.
Politics is ultimately about numbers and how you make those numbers work for you.
I am sure that Nicola and the party will find that way. The impetus is still there
Well said Dr Ew (9.04am), my thoughts exactly!
First time posting here since the 18th of September [i]that[/i] year. Enjoying all the articles and analysis. Posted a rant on farcebook earlier which I shall repeat here:
Ach fuck it. The one part of Scotland that should be properly, amazingly wealthy, the part that should be like fucking Stavanger or Abu fucking Dhabi with the amount of wealth that has literally flowed through it and what have we got to show for it? A fucking pathetic infrastructure, traffic that would rival the supposed problems of Tokyo, a railway station on the wrong side of the airport and now that the industry is in terminal decline the Tories answer in basically ‘well there’s a Job Centre on Union Street’ and yet folk have voted for them? I mean what the actual fuck? Too wee? No. Too poor? No. Too stupid? Absofuckinglutely.
The SNP lost here by 900 votes which I have no doubt was down to complacency. There’s hope, though – odious tory wankstain Burnett is a gambling addict so hopefully that’ll come out to haunt him.
We should have done so much better. 1,6 million of us voted Yes. I’ve raked around this morning trying to find numbers and eventually found some on the BBC in a private window. Of the total turnout ‘we’ got around half of the votes – but ‘we’ were little over a million. That’s half a million Yes voters who didn’t bother their arse to get to the Polling Station. That’s industrial-scale complacency right there.
That said, I’m still hopeful – my Yes Saltire I put up yesterday is still flying from the top of my makeshift flagpole. Seeing the tories being tories in Holyrood should hopefully focus a few minds in the right (left, and Indy) direction. Onwards.
still cant find the full results online so i cant crunch the numbers properly
however
it looks like the drop in turnout has hurt the snp more than others in certain target seats, nef etc
Rise/Solidarity. Looking at the figures, I don’t think they got enough votes to effect the result in any region
upshot, solidarity will fold for there can only be one. although i expect a lot of infighting in rise so maybe there will be 2 very shortly, eitherway, this was there best chance for a socialist revival. they blew it. They needed to learn that if you are asking the snp voters to vote “tactically” then the same is likely to be asked of rise by the snp supporters?
rise lost when they stood 4 candidates in 2015 ge and then standing in regions such as the south of scotland yesterday and risking damaging the snps chances of list seats. Hardly a way to endear themselves to the snp voters they wanted to woo.
rise should have stuck to bickering with sheridan, perhaps less fun than bickering with snp supporters but it would have won Rise more support.
I count at least 2 seats that the greens could be blamed for splitting a constituency vote. when will they ever learn.
So the SNP vote seems to have gone up slightly, despite the malign and constant BBC propaganda, and the D’Hondt system has been shown to be quite unsatisfactory.
Labour is finished, and the hard-line Unionists have decamped to the Tories. We seem to be approaching endgame, namely those who seek independence pitted directly against hard-core Britnats. Not pleasant to see blue on the map of Scotland but at least there is no UKIP.
I’m afraid Ruthie is going to be taught a very hard lesson on a weekly basis by the FM with no mountable photo opportunities in the chamber to deflect the eye from her toxic party and its toxic policies. I predict she will appear as an increasingly frantic Duracell bunny to the Scottish electorate, but she is The Union’s 21st century Custer. Will Kezia and Jackie B help to circle the wagons for her?
And the Greens? They have the chance to push us further along the road to independence, if that is truly their goal. Well, we shall see…..
Everybody’s watching.
Ruth is a Trojan horse, run by Engerland for Engerland. Ruth will be rewarded Scotland will be punished. The first shower of rain you’ll see the true colour of the beast. Then you’ll be sorry. Then we will win.
Would think Labour would start guarantee Scotland the extra powers the majority want instead of losing out to the Tories.
SNP lost overall majority but Independence vote has gone up.
FFS not Burnett – owns half of Deeside.
If there’s a plus side to this it is that the twats from RISE got their comeuppance – they got less votes than the Scottish Christian Party (whatever the hell that is)!
Hopefully we’ll now see the demise of CommonSpace & the idiot ranter who “writes” for the National. If Bella goes tits-up too then that’d be perfect….
Welcome to the pleasure dome.
Green 6 seats for 150,426 votes. To get one seat they needed 25,071 voters
Tory 24 seats for 524,222 votes. To get one seat they needed 21,442 voters
SNP 4 seats for 953,587 votes. To get one seat they needed 238,396 voters
Madness. a single Tory vote is 10 times more important than a SNP one, and yet still, we are three away from a majority for the SNP.
‘2 seats that the Greens could be blamed for splitting a constituency vote. Some people never learn’?
People were punting 2nd vote Green. It’s in the bag?
Legerwood says:
“Not sure that the Greens are a pro-independence party.”
That is my concern too.
Imagine some point, sooner or later, when Yes have crept ahead in the polls. Then a cracking opportunity is presented by WM actions for IndyRef2. A Bill must be passed by Holyrood to deliver the vote … and …. the Greens won’t back it! Indy is dead RIP.
The Greens MUST assert themselves as pro Indy NOW. If WM believe they have gone soft, then the Tories no longer have a threat of Union breakup and can act as they wish in Scotland.
Those +4 Green seats would have served Scotland far better had they been in SNP hands!
Think we should all take a day off and let the dust settle on this.
So Davidson gets in with a 610 majority and JaBa gets in with 109 majority.
That makes it that SNP lost out on a majority in Holyrood by 719 votes.
It only takes a couple of illnesses or a couple of them being caught up in scandals before the majority is there.
Well, that’s ir for me for the day. Last thought.
There’ll be recriminations, but RISE seem to have had just about no effect. Greens have, but on the other hand they’ve got 6 MSPs and there is a pro-Indy majority in Holyrood. And it means with Holyrood Elections over, SNP can get down to Indy.
So now’s the time not for recriminations or yah boo sucks, it’s fence mending time.
Miles Briggs, new Conservative MSP: “The people of Scotland want to turn the page on the constitutional argument that has divided our country.”
On the contrary, the increase in the Conservative vote indicates that unionist voters are wising up and want to turn Scottish politics into a straight Scot v Brit nat fight.
Rather than ‘turning the page’, I predict the Conservatives will never stop banging on about independence in this coming session.
I’m disappointed with the final result, but to those people blaming the d’Hondt system, please bear in mind that it’s sole purpose is to try to redress any anomalies on the constituency vote. This it has done.
The SNP want to drop any FPTP style electoral system and opt for a far more proportional one. Given that we should accept that the votes cast (as far as I can see) were approx 46% SNP on the constituencies. So in a ‘fair’ system, they should have received 59 SMPs. We got 63.
This is a minor setback, but let’s look at what we now do, rather than obsessing about a voting system that has actually done its job.
@Misteralz
I too don’t post here very often (but I’m a daily reader). I knew you were Aberdeen straight away – from the numbers you must be Abdn West? I really don’t understand it, mostly unionists in my office today judging by the conversations around me. I fall under Donside, which thankfully was 56% SNP (Mark McDonald). Keep the saltire flying high!
Sturgeon is having an indi campaign in the summer. I fully expect the Greens to get behind this. We can argue the toss over other issues but the Greens and SNP must unite around independence.
I hope you are listening Patrick. We want what you want. Lets put our country first.
Interesting that your ironic piece begins with a prediction that was spot on. Willie Rennie did achieve a Lib/Dem gain from SNP in North East Fife.
The sad thing is that the Scottish electorate seems to be very like rUK in its appetite for the “no higher taxes” agenda of the SNP and Tories, the allies that the Sun loves to back.
I can’t believe Bella Caledonia participated in the split fest; am hugely, hugely suspicious of The National; they have made a small number of very powerful tories very, very happy.
I don’t think the SNP can touch the BBC… That is George Orwell’s original Big Brother or Couthie Ruth the Noo.
But, one thing is going to be hilarious, and that is going to be watching the Scottish Labour MSPs supporting and playing second fiddle to the Scottish Tories in the Scottish Parliament. That little setup starts a joke that has so many endings, all of them funny, and most of them desperate.
Tough days ahead.
Low turnout cost the SNP nothing else. I reckon only 75% of the 45 actually voted and that’s not helping the cause.
The Tories and their controllers are 100% behind fracking, university fee’s, welfare cutbacks, and of course trident replacement and its 40,000? jobs (Jaba). This is what is now on the horizon.
Time for cool heads. Be careful what you ask for.
One more thing. Should the SNP have promised a referendum if elected to get the yes vote out?
Tinto Chiel says:
“And the Greens? They have the chance to push us further along the road to independence, if that is truly their goal. Well, we shall see…..Everybody’s watching.”
The SNP will continue to do the best for Scotland, under the difficult circumstances of ultimately WM rule. I have confidence they will shine as usual.
However, for me and many others on here, Indy is the big prize. I think it was WGD who said something like … do you want out of the cage forever, or just to try to make the cage more comfortable?
When it comes to independence, full Green backing is now essential. As you say, they are being watched closely!
Inverclyder – 610, 109 and tories only won Ayr by 750.Hell mend the complacent SNPers. I wonder if those places had any SNP placards on lampposts, there were none from any party here in Hamilton
The vast majority of Scots dont understand the D’hoydt system about time we had a petition to get the Electorial system changed to FPTP & fek this political parties lists,people being given seats ,having lost a previous vote.
FPTP if its good enough for the westminster elections ,its good enough for the Scottish elections.Get the finger out SNP & take westminster to task head on over this,embarressment for the unionist parties here when they oppose change.
Whats to lose.
Here is what the Scottish Green Party manifesto says about a second referendum.. (The BBC are ignoring it and Willie and Ruth)
link to greens.scot
The Tories are the only party ever to be IN GOVERNMENT in the UK while simulateously being the OFFICIAL OPPOSITION to government within the UK.
lol. There’s yer one party state right there.
Tony Little says:
Of course you are correct I just think its a mad system that had everything to do with the party that created it and little to do with true democracy.
Radio Scotland …. Kaye Adams prog….. Rolling panel of experts ……. Labour Spin doctors Unionist Journalists …… Pia, Massie, Alison Rowat, Paul Sinclair, McKenna (the contradiction of being an Indy supporting Labour journalist) ……. Then the SNP representative….Alex Bell….(aye I know … The BBC’s go to man for SNP representation) . ……. They’ve had members of the public on majority being First time Blue Tory voters…… Shifted From SNP and Labour ……
The BBC are shafting us ….and it ain’t going to stop…..
I’m glad to see some Wingers are upbeat about this, cos I’m in the fucking raging camp.
The underhanded poaching of the second vote by Bella, Rise and Greens are responsible for this minority.
James Kelly, Rev., Bateman, all said the majority was at risk. But we had these arseholes with their crystal balls, telling us the second vote for SNP was wasted. They didn’t win on policies, but by lying about the second vote.
So I REALLY hope there is no coalition with the Greens.
SNP were sluggish in reacting, or should have anticipated the second vote was vulnerable.
Bella talking shite now about the summer campaign for Indy, so how will that work exactly?
I couldn’t think why Jackson Carlaw rang a bell – I can now !
He is the eejit that SLAMMED the use of the Golden eagle as a symbol of Scotland as it was the Nazis and Romans who used it.
His spurious argument on that makes me think that I will not pay attention to any of his utterances ever again.
As for the folk who voted for the Ruth Davidson Party in my home town, I look forward to their pleasure paying prescription charges of 8 quid a pop, their children and grandchildren’s education bill, not to mention their bus fares if they are over 60.
What about the oil men – soon to be out of a job?
I remember when Aberdonians were chucking their house keys through the letter boxes of estate agents and scurrying away.
Ignore me , I’m just bloody angry mostly with the media but also with the unthinking and selfish.
I don’t care about who voted what in the election now, as it is over. We have secured a pro indy Scots Parliament yet again, so time to focus on independence.
I worked with green people in the indy referendum, and they want it as much as we all do. Patrick Harvie campaigned for it. So, let’s stop worrying about things that aren’t about to happen.
We have another shot to get independence. Ignore those who are seeking to ‘stir the pot’ regarding list votes. It is the past. If we indulge such people, we merely do the unionists job for them.
Let’s ignore the agents provocateur, and the people trying to sow division in the independence movement. The summer is coming, it’s a nice day, Nicola is Queen of Scotland again, we have a big pro indy majority in the Scots Parliament, and a REAL chance to win independence for good. It is all for the taking.
So, let’s stop girning, and start smiling. 🙂
Two links before I go.
link to snp.org
link to greens.scot
Have not seen Lesley Anne commenting for some time. If you are reading LA, I hope all is well with you.
The Westminster British conservative & unionist party has infiltrated the Scottish Parliament !
Into the lions den & nowhere to run.
The press are running with ” something that shouldn’t have happened in the first place hasn’t happened again! So SNP BAD!
what next, lottery winner has failed to win lottery again!
pigeon refuses to shit on man’s head again! Bust pipe that was replaced refuses to leak again!
Stupid stupid Greens. Hope they’re happy!
Votes, constituency and lists
2011 45.4% and 44.0%
2016 46.5% and 41.7%
Constituency up 1.1%, list down 2.3%
2011 4% of SNP voters split their vote. Of course many of these could have been Greens giving SNP their constituency vote.
2016 10% of SNP were split. Again, some may be previous and new Greens ‘lending’ SNP a constituency vote.
Did this splitting cost the SNP seats? Perhaps someone with a spreadsheet could say!
So we never got the sort of victory we had hoped for and there are several reasons for that but nevertheless a victory is a victory and i don’t even want to contemplate the alternative.
There are also a few points to be proud of, just to keep us looking on the positive side of things. One of those being the SNP vote has topped the 1-million mark but isn’t immediately obvious within the utter shite Holyrood system.
So cheer up, folks, we were victorious yet again and i don’t know about anyone else but i’m going to let the SNP get on with what they’ve been elected to do – govern us to the best of their abilities and work to earning a forth term or a Indyref2, whichever comes first.
Meanwhile, i’m going to enjoy an extended weekend of relaxation (not spent anywhere that voted Tory) and then come Monday work starts on working towards clearing all those Bunions out of our local councils.
Another round has been won but the fight rages on.
Have a great weekend everyone and don’t be doing anything i wouldn’t do…MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahahahahahahahaha
😉
Mixed feelings this morning, of course delighted that the SNP has done as well as they did, and increasing their overall vote.
However, I feel sick that the outright majority was missed by tactical voting.
Alex Bell on radio this morning said it as it is,” this was a result of Better Together getting it’s act together”.
Tactical voting was the game that worked for them, I feel a bit dejected this morning about that.
Watching Ruthie rant and rave after her win makes me feel sick.
Who really is it who votes for the destructive policies of the devious Tories? As for Bailley retaining her seat, her smirky smile was just too much for me and I switched off.
Orkney and Shetland yesterday returned LIb/Dem MSP’s to Holyrood as I warned might be the case in my article, attached.
The pundits as expected are claiming that the Lib/Dem Party is risen from the dead and the SNP is finished in the North.
But nothing could be further from the truth. The agenda for stripping Orkney and Shetland from Holyrood control continues. Be warned and spread the word.
link to caltonjock.com
link to caltonjock.com
The technicalities of the Holyrood system conspired against us. We won fair and square and increased first vote share. We are at a high point and as said before we now need to push for indi with the Greens.
If they want a million petition then we can get that quite easily. I would have it in the summer to demonstrate the appetite.
We have this Brexit thing to get through first. England decides for Scotland yet again! Things are never dull in Scottish politics.
ronnie anderson says
back to FPTP, no way! I understand your disappointment but proportionality is still the way to go. FPTP is too undemocratic.
Almannysbunnet says:
6 May, 2016 at 10:16 am
“Aye but no S on their tax code and no vote, just a suggestion ?”
A good idea. If that had been the case the last time I wonder what the result would have been.
The turnout fucked us and that is the bottom line.Whether it was a lacklustre manifesto or a crap campaign it was so low key it was unbelievable.
No point blaming anyone else and look in the mirror we will learn and come back stronger.
ronnie anderson says
back to FPTP, no way! I understand your disappointment but proportionality is still the way to go. FPTP is too undemocratic.
We are an independence movement, asking everyone to squeeze into the SNP is not realistic, embrace our green brothers! others will try and drive a wedge between us, don’t let them! we will win if we have a strong coherent movement, asking the SNP to do it alone is too big an ask.
@ ronnie anderson (10:58am) – Just clocked your post ronnie before heading off, can’t agree more. Time something was done and if it has to start with someone creating a petition then it has to be a Scottish Parliament petition. Any other kind will not be taken seriously or signed by many of us, myself included. Lets see if we can get a proper democratic replacement for London’s version.
BTW, We seriously have to step up our game against the Beeb!
Enjoy your weekend, troops, there’s work to be done!
Sat up watching all night and am not too disappointed .
SNP v’s Tory …. Roofy having to justify her parties appalling record and their just getting started darn sarf over Brexit
Have we seen the last of Labour . I hope so. I would never trust or vote for them no matter what they tell us .
Trouble is will the EBC continually have the non entities on telly 24/7 . Surely not now they are dead.and of no consequence in Scotland now . Hope so but its the EBC so i have my doubts.
All in all tho . SNP are still our govt .
and HAPPY BIRTHDAY DAVE .. have a cracker of a day 🙂
@Nana at 11:06
Thanks for those links – they put things into a healthier perspective. And, even with just 2 hours sleep, I feel better after reading them.
It’s just a matter of time before the Tank Commander and her cronies are shown up for what they really are.
Robert Louis …..post some more….. Cheer us up…… Keep slipping into the Fucking Raging Camp ….. The BBC have got kids on ……. Focusing their minds on the need for a women’s party…..
The voting system for Holyrood is designed to produce the sort of result we have just had.
So it is what it is, and we have to live with it.
My own thought is to wonder how many of the labour mps would be willing to cross the chamber, so to speak.
But it is time to modify the system so that nobody can both stand in a constituency and be on a list at the same time. That is clearly a democratic deficit.
Does Holyrood have the power to do that itself? If so, then let’s get it done during this parliament.
Time to take stock. The result (fantastic as it is) isn’t what we all hoped for but politics is about being pragmatic.
Sure, there will have been some mistakes in the campaign detail and it may have cost. However, the big thing for me is that the Come got their act together and used every trick in the book, including a biased MSM and the EBC. Labour on the other hand were all over the place.
We just have to be smarter. IRef#2 will not happen, we have to make it happen and that will only come about when we convince Unionists that Indy is a far better option.
I gave both my votes to the SNP, it is what I believe in and I’m proud of that. If some folk believe different then that that is their right. It is also my right to debate and try to convince them. I for one am not going back in any box.
People have a right to do what they do, we have all been there, let’s chill out and take stock with the greens.
Let us allow Sturgeon and Harvie to share some green tea and gluten free scones at Bute house. The tea leaves must be read and some wavy lines drawn in the sand if the portents are good.
A memorandum of understanding if you will, like the China thing no deal as such, just some common ground and a few policy initiatives that the Tories and / or labour can’t refuse. Progress made!
Labour should be easy as they are in disarray, they will need to toss a coin to decide whether go with it, or call Corbyn if they can have a pee first. They have been given a very severe fright.
They cannot be seen to do Scotland down any more, and anyway, who wants to be leader… their heads are down and their network of councillors is already under threat.
Aye as a few have said let the dust settle and start on Monday sounds a good idea!
Only a half smiley thing! :-
MSM and BBC won again. SNP lost out on the list. Scotland conned again.
BBC Politics Jo Swinton just there very very excitedly explaining what an incredible victory Scotland is for David Cameron, especially after 6 years of austerity. Scotland eh.
Some conclusions:
The Greens support for independence is gossamer thin. That’s being kind, and we’ll see that demonstrated sooner rather than later.
Britnat propaganda worked a treat with the more gullible independence supporters. Yet still they’ll continue to buy the Sunday Herald and the National and bleat on Bella.
A fair section of the Scottish electorate couldn’t give a flying monkeys about self-determination, or indeed self respect.
Who do you think voted for the Tories? Better stop there lest we’re not being inclusive eh?
Independence is dead via a referendum. It’s managerialism against the tide for the foreseeable.
I’d like to know just how a renewed campaign for Indy in summer gets off the ground.
We still have the media ranged against us, with a huge No vote sitting in opposition.
All I’m hearing is there is no mandate for indyref, and tbh I agree with that.
More than happy to be proved wrong, but you can’t imagine Tories and media don’t feel pretty good now, about renewing their efforts at disinformation.
If there is a plus in the Tank Commander’s party being a bit more prominent at FMQs, it’s this: Ruth Davidson will no longer be able to hide behind the buffoonery and crassness of people like Dugdale, Baillie and Kelly, and Nicola will have countless opportunities to attack Holyrood tories and Westminster tories simultaneously.
mike cassidy said at 11:30am:-
“————But it is time to modify the system so that nobody can both stand in a constituency and be on a list at the same time. That is clearly a democratic deficit.
Does Holyrood have the power to do that itself? If so, then let’s get it done during this parliament.”
The Scottish Parliament doesn’t have powers over the Electoral system in Scotland——-that power is retained by the Imperial Parliament at Westminster—the Commons and appointed House of Lords. 🙁
Kinda concerned that polls had us at 53%/55% only a few weeks back. They then started slipping and now are at 46.5% on constituency. Circa 6-8% drop in vote in a couple of months. Worrying. Hope the upcoming push for Indy in the summer gets things moving in the right direction.
This has taken the wind out of the SNP’s sails purely on a psychological basis. We all hoped for another majority, but we are still in government. The alliance over the indi issue with the greens is not something the Yoons can prevent.
Heads must come together to agree a process to get a bill through on indi 2. This must start immediately. In 5 years time no one can predict the momentum will still be with us. People become disengagaed if there is no action. Last nights low turnout even compared to WM the year before, reflects the apathy creeping back.
We must give hope to indi supporters, and not just become an idea rather than a physical movement. If you wait too long with most things in life the opportunity evaporates.
Oh look, there’s that rapper shite Loki on Kaye, calling SNP lazy and powerful.
This day just gets better.
Some good positive posts on here. The voting system we have is designed precisely to deliver a minority gov and the snp have some decent people to work with. If anything the policies delivered will take us further and further away from Westminster politics.
As for the bbc they can’t pin the one party state line on us nor can they call it Nicola’s indyref campaign. Oh and greens might play the separate currency card for any vote on ref2 which I am in favour of.
well done to Fulton MacGregor in Coatbridge, despite a massive orchestrated smear attack, well done!
This town was once the beating heart of Labour, no more its an independence town! if anything demonstrates the death of labour its Coatbridge, once you could have put a monkey on a stick and the masses would have voted it in.
But the Labour in their quest for a seat in the house of lords tried to out Tory the Tory’s, who in return having enticed them into the no camp, have stuck the knife into them, I wonder if they feel better together this morning!
Valerie – surely many tens of thousands of SNP list votes were wasted votes,especially in the central belt. Maybe we should have more confidence in the constituency vote and lend our list vote to the Greens. Not Rise of course.
@YESGUY Missed you, hoping you are ok
@Free Scotland
Happy to ease your mind, we need to keep working together and build bridges in order to get indy2. I’m sad to have lost some of our snp msps, I believe Christian Allard is gone but I am glad to see Andy Wightman got in, he knows his stuff on land reform and that will get the tories in a lather.
@call me dave link to youtube.com
So far this morn, all BBC politics tv news has been a massive boost for what an amazing victory Scotland’s been for the tory party in Scotland.
Right now, Prof Curtice drones on and on about tory victory in Scotland, what does David Cameron ask himself now, blah blah bleh. Not one BBC discussion on SNP voters, like me and what we want.
Without tory BBC, toryboy world would be a very different universe.
Valerie -Indi is polling at 47% ….no appetite? That’s the power of persuasion of the media. It creeps into our souls and we start believing it. There is absolutely an appetite. If there was an appetite at 31% then logic says there is an appetite at 47% plus. Incidently watch those numbers climb now that Labour have imploded.
Curtice – pollsters (deliberately?) wrong again. Gerrymandering and manipulating the result. They should ban public polls in purdah period.
With the highest number of constituency seats won, but just short of overall majority, I look for some info about how the SNP are dealing with the results. The fucking bbc is all about the fucking tories. What about the fact that the SNP won more direct seats than everyboby else put together! Not a mention. Labour lost it big style to a tory gain. The split second vote cost the overall majority. Its what happens when we’re stuck with msm and especially bbc bias. The reporting was just appalling.
Valerie – surely many tens of thousands of SNP list votes were wasted votes,especially in the central belt. Maybe we should have more confidence in the constituency vote and lend our list vote to the Greens. Not Rise of course.
Last time Green’s won like this, they were going to work with the SNP. They then instantly blocked SNP budget, not slowly with consideration, instantly.
Greens are tories with out the nerve to vote tory.
@mike Cassidy 11:30am
Spot on Mike, couldn’t agree more chins up , the Sun is out in Greenock, greenock is SNP by a large majority (never thought I’d ever see it). Let DC via Ruthy baby do the rest. And they will!
You can’t get 51% of the vote if only 50% of the electorate turn out in some places. I think we can read to deeply into poll slippage. It’s apathy that’s to blame. The SNP is not losing any ground at present.
From up here – Aberdeenshire West – it looks as though the Tories and Liberals formed a pact to maximise the Unionist vote.
But it may turn out to be a phyrric victory if the Greens now push for land reform, a ban on fracking and higher taxes for the wealthy. It seems the Environment Minister, Aileen McLeod, has lost her seat. Someone more energetic about land reform might well be the price of cooperation.
But the focus now has to be the Local Authority elections 2017. Clearing out the rotten boroughs will make a big difference to voter perceptions.
Calm down! Calm down!
The Greens are not the SNP; they have different priorities and are perfectly entitled to fight for every vote they can. If they out fought the other parties, then fair enough. From the Green’s perspective, they can add something different to the Indy debate and the Parliament.
Regarding the increase of seats for the Conservative Party; this is actually a good thing, because, finally we start to see the polarisation in Scottish politics that has been sorely needed. The No vote is the Tory Party. This will get people thinking very hard indeed about which side of the debate they are really on – Scotland or London.
Labour are losers, both physically and metaphorically. Who wants to be associated with losers? The Labour vote is not coming back any time soon and for that we should be thankful. To quote King Edward II of England, ‘A man does good work when he rids himself of shit.’ In this case Red Tory shit!
As for the LibDems; well I’m very disappointed in the voters of Orkney and Shetland, they should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves; obviously being dishonest is now seen as a valuable asset in the Northern Isles. I had a rant this morning to my other half stating, “they (the Northern Isles) can get to f***! And they can take their 12 mile limit with them. Bunch of Tories diehards!” But in the cold light of day, they can bask in the fact that they voted for a party that has little representation, that they are the last bastions of Lying LibDem-ness and that the descent parties, the SNP and the Greens, will look to the Northern Isles best interests whether the Northern Isles are grateful or not.
Wee Willie can bask in his personal triumph *cough* but it does not hide the fact that the Lib Dems are a complete irrelevance in Scotland. 5Th Place behind the Greens? LibDem supporters need to take a long hard look at themselves and ask themselves “what is the point?”
There are loads of positives to take from this and we must afford the electorate some credit; they have put their trust in the SNP and the Greens. Some of the electorate have very strong Green leanings and that must be respected.
Onwards and upwards!
@ Andrew McLean ? is the Electorial Commission a devolved body, the whole system needs changed in Scotland, we would,nt have been given this system by the Labour Gov if they dewar thought it would do any good in a Devolved Scotland.
Its devisive by intent,ffs a system that allows 2 chances to be elected,rejected by the voting public in the 1st vote , & elected by a political party who choose the candidates position on their list. Democratic it is not.
@Nana
Genuinely touched with that consideration 🙂
Oh wait! My eyes glisten slightly and out of focus, only briefly you understand, Hmm! But OK now.
X
link to snp.org
Genuine question. Can someone show me a region where we were let down on the list ie where a few more thousand votes would have made a difference?
Thanks to proud Scot buts, yesterday in Scotland was a local election, and the D’Hondt shyste ofcourse
Imperial masters of rancid The Graun says SNP should merge with Labour now, to save Labour. I shit you not.
link to archive.is
“Scottish Labour was wiped out in Glasgow and looks certain to cede official opposition status to resurgent Tories.
The merger of Scottish Labour and Scotland’s nationalists must be on the horizon one day, perhaps when the present generation of former Scottish Labour MPs acknowledges reality. Scotland’s politics must snap out of its tribalism and recover the conventional left-right dichotomy. The success of the impressive Tory leader, Ruth Davidson, can only hasten that day.”
Only in teamGB can toryboy world be resurgent, with a quarter of the vote in Scotland, and with all the giant vote Tory propaganda endlessly pouring out of the BBC led tory media?
Greens must be so excited today. What will we do with our king making power they squeal.
@ harry mcaye – I’ve been searching around for a tally of the votes in individual Constituencies and Regions but so far no luck. The Scottish Parliament site has the spreadsheets from previous elections so presumably the 2016 results will appear here soon.
link to parliament.scot
No list seats in the NE. A Tory got in – SNP before. The Tories have ruined the Oil sector with high taxation.
Cameron now speaking nonsense.
David Cameron BBC style roaring away about Tory winning in Scotland, in Yorkshire.
“It seems the Environment Minister, Aileen McLeod, has lost her seat. Someone more energetic about land reform might well be the price of cooperation”
What difference does land reform, what it actually means, make to Scottish people anyway?
Lets all go and look at Scotland land reform, for a freakin afternoon out.
Just more Green bullshit basically.
@call me dave
Happy birthday dave and so far it’s no looking too shabby. 🙂
SNP Wipe Out Labour in Glasgow constituencies.
“——-Scottish Labour has been ousted from every constituency in Glasgow in a repeat of its general election misery in the city.”
“Labour was able to secure four seats on the city’s Regional List, which will see the return to politics of former MP Anas Sarwar, who vowed to “fight” for Glasgow.
Ms Lamont, Mr Kelly and former MSP Pauline McNeill also returned on the List.
Glasgow – which voted Yes to Scottish independence in 2014 – was previously an electoral stronghold for Labour.———-”
Lamont is back by the List,and Anas Sarwar thrown out at last year’s General Election also gets back in by the List! 🙁
The Courier:-
link to archive.is
…last night simplified things
a) It’s a straight YES/NO fight now
b) RED Tories proved the point and switched to being BLUE Tories overnight.
It has made the path clearer.
SNP picked up all the other seats in the NE?
A lot of people on here convinced themselves the Greens are “soft” on independence. Bullshit. If you believe that you don’t know our history and you don’t know our party.
It also seems many have forgotten that at the Westminster elections just twelve months ago we had SNP activists exhorting Green supporters to “lend us your vote” in the deradful FPTP. Many did, including me. That we had the temerity to even stand at these Scottish elections seems to have driven a few folk totally nuts. The way we’ve been spoken to and about by many on this site has been nothing short of insulting.
Reviewing the results, it’s pretty clear that in most regions a list vote for the Greens would have been far more productive than a vote for the SNP – if what you were interested in was a pro-indy majority. While I acknowledge D’Hondt is difficult to predict, it seems many on here – led, it must be said, by Stu – confused independence movement with the SNP. They are not one and the same – and we’re much healthier for it.
SNP x 2 did not work. Blame the Greens. Blame RISE, Bella Caledonia, Jock Tamson and all for that reality if you like but the people have spoken. Demanding ‘Wee Free’ style purity of thought and deed in absolute fealty to the SNP will not win independence – ever.
Think about that. The more sectarian you become the more resistance will grow.
So perhaps ask yourself: Is your ultimate interest in the SNP or in securing an independent Scotland?
Because, folks, for the second parliament in a row we have a clear pro-indy majority. Instead of bellyaching and spittin the dummy oot, just let that glorious thought sink in.
Then, when you’ve done that, think about what your next move should be – spewing more bile at allies like the Greens and RISE? Berating previous SNP/Yes voters who didn’t turn out yesterday? Boycotting Bella Caledonia for advancing what turned out to be a more intelligent tactic on pro-indy voting?
Over to you, guys.
Ronnie Anderson says: 11:57 am
@ Andrew McLean?, ? no its Me!
Agreed its far from perfect but not as imperfect as FPTP, it badly needs review, and yes that might not have helped but made a lot worse, but what about all manifestos must be published 8 weeks prior to an election, all candidates to stand as names on a list, for a vote you pick party, then you pick one of four candidates, haven’t given it much thorough but D Hont is nuts.
Eastwood won by Carlaw is a fine example of SNP picking up Labour votes. Labour went down by 9% ,and of that the SNP picked up 6% whilst the Tories increased by 3%.
The SNP polled over 11,000 votes here last night whereas in 2011 they got just over 7,000.
There is still a very positive message here.As Labour drops voters the SNP are picking them up at twice the rate of the Tories.It is still all to play for.
The problem with RISE is the ridiculous amount of publicity they got for their actual size.
All the focus of the ‘new media’ has been towards a vote-splitting party when the Greens already existed in that space.
Helped by the old media using their prominent supporters as useful idiots.
You got morons like Loki the rapper urging No Votes SNP to thousands of twitter users non stop for the last 3 weeks.
That sort of attitude probably damaged the RISE vote more than anyone by the amount of bitterness caused. But it also damaged the SNP.
Think of all the energy wasted on the far left attacking the SNP instead of attacking the Tories.
Now we actually have the Tories as the official opposition in Scotland with 30 seats and the chance that a second referendumum can be refused because the SNP are told they no longer have a mandate. The tories will say people voted green for tree hugging reasons.
SNP MSP asked by BBC ligger Huw why SNP didn’t win majority. Why not just say, a lot because of your BBC vote SLab Scotland endless SNP bad monstering, vote anyone to block ref2 this summer etc.
Why are we giving this outfit a free pass? BBC are really powerful political power in Scotland, like a ref in a boxing match, punching fcuk out of one fighter.
heedtracker says: “What difference does land reform, what it actually means, make to Scottish people anyway?”
yeah don’t talk about land reform, , bloody upetty Jocks wanting control of their land, what are they like!
Look a squirrel!
There are two greens that I have heard passionate about independence, one Andy, is passionate about land reform, you will know how important it is when the greens force it as a discussion and they will, you will hear the conservatives screams from space!
Absolutely exhausted. Some thoughts:
– Stuart’s in! At 17,032 & 53.7% of the vote, it is the best result not just for the SNP, but ANY candidate to contest Greenock & Inverclyde since Parliament was reconvened. We all sang happy birthday to the winner!
– Gutted that Nicola didn’t receive at least an equal mandate to Alex or an overall majority, but we can stand proud knowing we got the highest constituency vote of any party since Parliament was reconvened.
– Only two seats short of an overall majority means we’re only two or more defections or by-elections away from one. 2011-2016 saw the SNP lose 5 seats (3 defections/resignations, 2 by-elections), but the SNP’s strong constituency turnout and the low majorities of several unionist constituencies means it isn’t impossible to see crucial gains over the next five years.
– I am over any talk of “wasted votes.” From a tactical perspective, both #bothvotesSNP and Yes Alliance failed. The combined pro-independence vote on the regional list was virtually unchanged from 2011: all that happened was the SNP vote was down by 2.3%, Green was up 2.2%. #bothvotesSNP failed to match their 2011 result, and the Greens failed to make significant enough gains for more than 6 seats. More significant is that the net Green gain was +4, but SNP net loss -6.
– I made a point of not talking about any of the other parties (unless in direct response to a disgusting smear by the local Other Party) during the campaign, but let me be clear to the Greens: you have a lot to prove. Robin Harper scuppered an SNP working deal in 2007. The Greens voted with the Unionists on several policies in the 2007-2011 administration. The SNP have a proven track record in government.
If your party does anything to jeopardise movement towards independence for the sake of appeasing their not unsubstantial unionist support, or detriments the people of Scotland for the sake of crowing about being kingmakers, then don’t think the independence movement will forgive you for it. You were voted in on a Yes Alliance ticket. Never forget that.
Ach. Let’s end on a high note. 69 pro-indy seats – a drop compared to the last parliament’s 71, but still a majority. Let’s focus on that.
Just heard there is no expectation on the part of the SNP to do any formal deals with the Greens co-operation with all only
Let’s all calm down. We wanted Labour humiliated. They are. Somebody had to be second so it had to be Ruthie.
Job done.
SNP x 2 did not work. Blame the Greens. Blame RISE, Bella Caledonia, Jock Tamson and all for that reality if you like but the people have spoken. Demanding ‘Wee Free’ style purity of thought and deed in absolute fealty to the SNP will not win independence – ever.”
Well the point is you see, Ruth Davidson may well have won even if indy Greens hadn’t voted 4000+ in Edinburgh, for the Green candidate who took 4000+ votes. But maybe a Green will explain why they had a Green in there with Ruth anyway, coz youre all so indy n shit.
There is an awful lot of bollocks out there. BBC Scotland ligger says Tory win Aberdeen West because its a farming constituency and some probs over subsidy.
Aberdeen West is the giant rich royal Deeside suburb of Aberdeen, from Balmoral Palace to Cults. Its got some farms but its got a lot more wealthy English retired, high pay oil staff and lot and lots royals too.
In 2011 the SNP were favoured by some good fortune on the mix of constituency and list votes. A balance that gave an unexpected result as far as the designers of the system were concerned. The results yesterday were, despite an even better constituency polling, more in keeping with the original architects’ intentions.
However, I am finding it hard to be too disappointed at missing the majority by two seats. It is improbable that all the other disparate MSPs will combine against the SNP on any issue much less all of them. The SNP have such a number of MSPs as to be an effective government and lest we forget, the 2007 government was a very effective government.
The Greens agree on many issues and it may actually work to the SNPs advantage if they are seen to be a wee bit more radical on fracking and land reform…two areas that would buy a lot of Green support.
I would not swap the SNP position for that of the Tories or Labour (and certainly not the Liberals)
@Kenny says: 6 May, 2016 at 8:39 am:
” … which would be an incredible result after the BBC has thrown Ruthie and the kitchen sink at us.”
Oh Yah! Oh Yah! I do believe, Kenny, that I would manage to ward off an incoming Kitchen sink … but an incoming Ruthie would probably be the end of me.
Only at Wings would a very good night for the SNP be declared a reason for grumbling and “yoon”-conspiracies denying them a glorious perfect victory; look guys, the SNP lost the Referendum pretty badly, and a bad result today would have been a collapse in support due to the electorate seeing the SNP as a one trick pony or incompetent at the one thing people were voting for them for; Instead you got 46.5% of the vote, more than twice their nearest rival, which shows that the people of Scotland believe the SNP is a deeper, wider, competent party of Government instead, and voted them back in comprehensively.
Why do you want Independence anyway? To deliver better polices than London can give, and the electorate has overwhelmingly stated they believe the SNP have been delivering upon those, and voted them back in to do some more of it. Yes, there’s a strong rise in Toryism; but you’ve been bashing Labour as Red Tories for so long, didn’t you realise that a collapse in Labour vote would naturally then turn Tory? Did you think they’d just disappear, that they somehow weren’t real Scots or knew their own voting inclinations as well as you did?
In fact, you should be extremely grateful rather more of them broke for the Greens and left leaning independents, which shows Scotland has a healthy majority for better politics; the Greens or anyone else don’t OWE you their votes though, but they’re there as an elected majority if you choose to work with them. Declaring they’re fifth columnists and conjured a Tory resurgence out of phantom Red Labour Scots is only going to shoot the serious work of the SNP in the foot.
Of course, if Independence is the answer to everything everywhere ever as here, then yes things are a bit more tricky; a better Tory showing in Scotland might make the Tory inter-party fight over Europe more complicated… the temptation to bash, reject, eject Scotland because you’re all filthy communists anyway isn’t going to be so obvious today. But that’s all the more reason to work on a national sense of unity now, in case the EU Referendum votes out but Scotland in, so you can say “All the same, across the border we’re pretty sure we don’t want to be like you.”
In the meantime, the SNP won handily the Holyrood elections. It’s a beautiful day, you’ve got a workable majority, stop matching the stereotype of dour Scots and celebrate!
@Dr Ew
Out of interest, on an individual basis, what’s the stance on Indy of those green MSPs elected?
If it came down to voting on whether to hold indyref2 tomorrow, would they be 100% on board do you think?
Onwards says:
“The problem with RISE is the ridiculous amount of publicity they got for their actual size.”
The voters passed opinion on the extreme left. The Scottish Christian Party (whoever they are) even beat RISE.
Time to forget them for a while. If they want to play real politics they should start with a few council seats and build some credibility.
The Unionist objective was to deny the SNP an overall majority. In that respect they have succeeded. RISE wasn’t relevant in that, as far as I can see.
Alex Rowley waxing lyricle on Kezia reforming Labour party as a autoonomoose, Scottish party ,aye Kezia Q Jeremy Corbyn. We will rebuild the Labour party in Scotland, och aye the noo,Jeremy will show his face in Scotland soon & put Kezia in her place.
autooonomoose
auto /car whitoot a engine
toon /cartoon charictor ( kezia)
mooses dont hiv horns
sums up Scottish Labour/british labour.
@ Giving Goose at 11:57am …
Spot on Giving Goose. Lots of positives to take from the results.
And focusing on the positives thanks for the link Nana. Posted once again ….
link to snp.org
………………………………………………..
Hope you have a Happy Birthday Call me Dave x
………………………………………………..
Craig Murray highlighting some numbers and stating ”that is over 750,000 SNP pro-independence list votes completely wasted, electing nobody at all on the list. By contrast in these regions the Tories got 376,000 – almost precisely 50% of the list votes the SNP received there – and got 19 MSPs for them!” ….
”If the SNP list vote which was completely, utterly and entirely predictably useless in these regions had been given to other pro-independence candidates, the number of Tory MSPs in parliament would have been drastically reduced.
We would not have the BBC crowing over “Tory victory” as the result of the election. Despite the fact that only one in 9 eligible Scottish voters, voted Tory, a fact the BBC will not tell you. With tactical voting a dozen more committed pro-Indy MPs could have been put into parliament.” …
”Finally, it is not a bad thing that the Unionists are now firmly identified as the Tories. Many of them were Red Tories anyway, and all that has happened is that their allegiance has become plain. The stark choice between Independence and the Tories is now visible. It was always there, but at the referendum many did not see it. Having the Tories leading the unionist opposition simply brings the day of Independence closer. There is only one winner in that battle.”
link to craigmurray.org.uk
Constituency votes
SNP 1058897 k 46.5% of the vote
Tory 501 844 k 22% of the vote
Labour 514 261k 22.6% of vote
Lib Dems 178238 k 7.8 % of vote
Greens 13k , 0.6% of vote
So Scotlands divide is still maintained 46.5 % for Indy 53% against
And the SNP have another 5 years of “competent governing ” ahead of them , with every year going by the questions about social justice and when is it actually going to happen , will be often asked .
Whatever the scale of Scotland’s poverty problem , its none to serious to risk raising taxes for (and watch voter support ebb away )
By the time indy ref 2 comes along the SNP will have been in power for 14 years (after 2021 ) .
I can well imagine the slogans for ref 2 ,
“Competent Govt , over Fear ”
does not have the same ring to it .
Hey wingers,
An SNP not getting a majority is disappointing but an SNP majority isn’t the only route to independence.
As an SNP x2 voter I have to admit I do like the green influence of an independent Scotland. The refurendum did show Patrick Harvey very pro independence. He was on the smith commission panel also. So am not worried about indyref2 happening.
Much to my joy this is a good result. Ruthie rerunning the refurendum to collect the unionist vote has laid the playing field back on. Scotland does not support tories. That fact will play out well in the coming months. Her Tory party will now be held to account direct in Scotland while the SNP in Westminster puts on the pressure down there.
The unionist voters who baulked while casting there vote to the tories because they support the union will turn back to there old political mind set of labour/lib dem but as they go back to there home ground it will be with a feeling of being duped by the union and will add to the pro Indy vote.
That’s how I see it.
A great result for the SNP but some unfortunate losses due to unionist parties playing the referendum card.
However the prize for the nastiest campaign goes to Alex Cole-Hamilton and his fellow Lib Dems in Edinburgh West.
It’s the media, stupid.
well said Titlr!
County before party. independence above all else, even the sainted Nicola is but a bit player in the history of our great nation and its inevitable march to independence! yet again yesterday the Scots voted for independence no state broadcasters spin can hide that fact, the Tories did not win, labour did not win, the greens did not win, SCOTLAND WON!
However, I am finding it hard to be too disappointed at missing the majority by two seats.
I think its awful. Its one of the great UKOK media gerrymandering thingees ever seen.
Its ofcourse not all down to The National but they’re easy to look at and how they gave so much publicity to tiny parties that could well now fade out.
How come there is nothing tory BBC media wise on anything like RISE in England anywhere?
Name one Green policy that makes sense. North Sea oil bad? Land reform matters so much to you because?
Papko,
This is the most Tory statement I have seen in a long time. Shocking!
‘Whatever the scale of Scotland’s poverty problem , its none to serious to risk raising taxes for’
Independence in Scotland will be delivered by a progressive political movement and an educated electorate.
We have a pro- independence government in Holyrood, and a very strong basis to continue the work of a YES campaign that spoke to all age groups from all social and cultural backgrounds as we head into Indyref2.
Don’t worry about a referendum, there won’t be one.
In addition, take a look at the Revs Twitter for those chiding me for being negative.
This was foretold. Without a decisive majority, its a new stick for the newly elected Tories, raring to go. Carlaw positively crowing for hours now.
They have the media, they have direct access to WM, and WM will no doubt renew their interest in this region.
link to derekbateman.scot
Titler says
Yes, there’s a strong rise in Toryism; but you’ve been bashing Labour as Red Tories for so long, didn’t you realise that a collapse in Labour vote would naturally then turn Tory? Did you think they’d just disappear, that they somehow weren’t real Scots or knew their own voting inclinations as well as you did?”
That’s a load of rubbish too. Its busy today. Labour voters have not turned to the tories.
Labour voters are now SNP voters.
Clearly OO types have piled in to the Ruth Davidson BBC led freak show/circus but there’s probably not much to say about that.
@Anagach says: 6 May, 2016 at 8:40 am:
… I did not expect the SNP to take all the constituencies but i am surprised;
1. That the conservatives gained so much from a
collapsing Labour vote.
2. That the Lib Dems did so well given how low
their credibility has fallen.
Well, Anagach, don’t say you were not told the truth.
The Unionists are all, no matter what unionist party they belong to, are one and all supporters of, “The Establishment”, This establishment has been ever present since ever we have had recorded history.
The present head of, “The Establishment”, is Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II of England. The aristocracy owe their rank and station in life to Royal grace & favour in the past and in the present.
They really have never hidden the facts. It is Her Majesty’s Government, Her Majesty’s Treasury – et al.
Right down to the Loyal Orange Order and while they fight among themselves they will always close ranks to threats by outsiders and we ordinary Scots are outsiders. We always have been and, as long as we allow it to be so, we always will be.
Well! There goes my OBE for services to politics.
Dr Ew says: What’s that Doc, Greens put a Green up against Ruth Davidson because..?
As I warned last night; pervasive BBC propaganda still works. London’s agitprop channel successfully convinced a sufficient number of voters to deny the SNP a clear majority.
There exists in Scotland yet, a powerful resistance to any attempt to subvert the authority of Westminster & the London based Establishment.
It had been obvious for months that London could no longer rely on their traditional sycophants in Labour’s north British branch office to continue trading on their behalf, so hapless had they become.
But the Establishment had a plan B in Ruth Davidson who colluded to champion the status quo by succinctly dropping the words “Conservative & Unionist Party” from her campaign while exhausting the electorate with references to stopping another independence referendum.
Meanwhile, egged on by the pro BritNat print media, the Green Party & RISE gullibly targeted seats in Edinburgh for example which caused key SNP seats to fall to all three main Unionist parties.
Sure, a 3rd consecutive win by the SNP is historic & we must not forget that the d’Hondt voting method implemented at Holyrood is designed specifically to prevent any party from achieving an outright majority.
So in one sense, the electoral system returned a parliament that reasonably reflected the opinions of the electorate. But you must ask yourself what kind of parliament we might have had today if London did not have the BBC to keep the SNP in check.
All the parties, except Labour of course, will be crowing about their successful campaign this morning. But none will be gloating as hard as the folks at the BBC in London & in Glasgow who ironically used your money to chisel away at the SNP’s dominance to good effect.
The dream of independence isn’t dead but the prospect of our country extracting itself from broken Britain has suffered a major setback. Those hoping for a second referendum during this parliament are going to be disappointed. And while the SNP will continue to execute sound governance, London has just been handed an easy five year window during which it really can kill the aspirations of those seeking independence for a generation.
Personally, I can’t continue to live in a country whose people prefer to be dominated by a corrupt government based in another so it really does look like I won’t be spending the last half of my life in Scotland.
You have to hand it to the London Establishment; they don’t let cash cows go easy, do they?
Heed tracker
“That’s a load of rubbish too. Its busy today. Labour voters have not turned to the tories.”
I think you will find , a good many self employed , with a mortgage , may not think they are “tory ” or even vote Tory , but they are Tory in all but name .
500 k voted Tory in the constituency vote , 1 million SNP , 2:1 ratio certainly , but hardly an extinct species or a Panda .
@Robert Louis says: 6 May, 2016 at 8:49 am:
“Aye a race, but then again, poor jackie Baillie might just get a seat at the back…or even nae seat!”
Oh! Cummon, Robert Louis, This is Jackie Baillie you are talking about. It would be two, or even three, seats at the back she would need.
Gfaetheblock says:
6 May, 2016 at 12:50 pm
Papko,
This is the most Tory statement I have seen in a long time. Shocking!
‘Whatever the scale of Scotland’s poverty problem , its none to serious to risk raising taxes for’
You voted for a low tax party as well , as did one million others who voted SNP , they were joined by 500k Tories who voted for low tax as well .
presumably the SNP are different as they will tackle poverty “After Indy “.
@ Clootie says at 12:16 pm … ”last night simplified things.
a) It’s a straight YES/NO fight now
b) RED Tories proved the point and switched to being BLUE Tories overnight.
It has made the path clearer.”
Exactly Clootie. It’s no longer a left wing / right wing Scotland. It’s Nationalists versus Unionists and the remaining Labour supporters will have to make a decision now as to what side of the fence they are on which may push up our numbers.
Ruth Davidson will have to cut out the gimmicks, climb down from the buffalo, stand up in Holyrood and justify every nasty Tory policy and scandal: And no doubt there will be MANY of them.
The remnants of the Labour Party will have to decide if they are going to continue to support their Better Together back-stabbing cronies in Holyrood or adopt the Tories Baad mantra for a change. Focus on fighting their so-called natural enemy.
Interesting times ahead.
OK,so an SNP majority didn’t happen,but please remember,the no referendum party didn’t win. Only the order of who asks the same questions changed. 🙂
The Greens tried to ruin the economy in the NE. Colluding with landowners to block essential roads. Wasting £Millions/Billions of taxpayers money. Colluding with the Labour/Unionists to build a grotesque carbuncle in the City Centre. Refusing a Gift of £80Million to pedestrianse the City, against the majority wishes and the public interest.
The Greens want to shut down the Oil sector, put a tax on land which could put up housing and food costs and damage exports.
The Tories win 1/4 votes in Scotland and 1/3 council seats in England but they are crowing. Desperate
@ScottieDog
To be crystal clear:
Patrick Harvie – YES.
Alison Johnstone – YES.
Andy Wightman – YES.
Mark Ruskell – YES.
Ross Greer – YES.
John Finnie – YES.
Robin Harper was an embarrassing idiot who did us a lot of damage, and not just on independence; he also tried to overturn party policy to get himself nominated to the House of Lords, for instance. He failed.
I’ve been a supporter and member for nearly 20 years and there was always something like a 80/20 majority in favour of independence. Post-referendum, with a 500% increase in membership and a thorough exploration of independence, that split is now more like 99/1.
Within the Scottish Green Party – which split from the UK Ecology Party in 1979, lest it be forgotten – there is a different reasoning and rationale for independence but, make no mistake, that policy is absolutely solid.
We’re in a different landscape now. I happen to believe the Scottish Parliament should pursue increasingly distinctive policies and make that landscape more distinctive still: More radical land reforms, more localised ownership of renewable power, and more localised democracy along with a complete restructuring of local government and its financing.
The more we act for ourselves, the more the rUK will seem like another country – like the past.
Papko says: the divide remains
Thanks for that if we are playing that game! LOOK
SNP 1,058,897 + 953,587 = 2,012,484
Tory 501,844 + 524,222 = 1,026066
Labour 514,261 + 435,919 = 950,180
Lib Dems 178,238 + 119,284 = 297,522
Greens 1300 +e 150,426 = 151,726
Total 4,437, 970 votes cast
Pro independence 2,164,210 = 48.77%
Against 2,273,760 = 51.23%
Gap narrows to a 1.33% swing to win independence.
fantastic, thanks for pointing that out Papko, fair cheered me up!
@Dr Ew
Do you think Westminster will treat Green MSPS as a mandate for independence?
It’s not that Independence is now off the table.
All that’s happened is the SNP and Greens have went to get a bigger table.
People who really believe, or say they really believe in an independent Scotland – and the only serious party steadfast in that direction is the SNP – who then waste their second vote on a n other party are simply unprincipled splitters. (John Cleese voice in head).
The PR system is too complicated to predict and has to be calculated on any perceived number of FPTP assumptions to be of any value, if any. To say post vote ‘I told you so’ is disingenuous.
People quoting history make me laugh – it ain’t rocket science – Scots have been manipulated for centuries by Rome, London, or anyone with a few bob because we can’t agree on the colour of shite, a state of mind dating back to the Clan system.
We don’t have a country of our own. It belongs to London. Those so called SNP voters who gave their second vote to another party are simply easily led and when they speak I zone out. A bit like when Patrick Harvie opens his mouth. Politics (for us voters) is about principles first second and last – not tactics.
We’re in a different landscape now. I happen to believe the Scottish Parliament should pursue increasingly distinctive policies and make that landscape more distinctive still: More radical land reforms, more localised ownership of renewable power, and more localised democracy along with a complete restructuring of local government and its financing.”
More Green rubbish. By plonking a Green in with Ruth Davidson, well you know the rest.
Green’s are merely carpet baggers at best, dangerous at worst, look at Ruth Davidson.
Harvie said last night he was “going after the SNP addiction to North Sea oil and gas.”
Whatever that means, neither SNP or Holyrood has nothing whatsoever to do with North Sea oil, all of it is controlled by Westminster, all revenues flow to England and have been invested in England, since the day they struck black UKOK gold.
But it sounds good, just like land reform sounds good but means very little.
Andrew worth pointing out that many of the Labour voters are pro indi!
@Dr Ew says: 6 May, 2016 at 9:04 am:
” … If it’s an overall majority for indy you wanted, we’ve got it.”
Have we? I’m not so sure the Greens are officially really a pro-indy party. Even if it was official green policy, (and I cannot recall ever seeing it in their manifestos), it seems a rather wishy-washy version.
Into the bargain they are Scottish Greens and independent of the UK Greens. They have done some not very people friendly things here in Scotland.
Correct me if I’m wrong but were they not behind the very expensive campaigns that held up the Aberdeen relief road system?
Taxes would go up to pay for Westminster policies. it is spending Scotland should have control over.
Total taxes raised in Scotland £54Billion (same – without Oil) Total taxes raised in the UK £515Billion. Take £54Billion from £515Billion = £461Billion (rest of the UK) divide by 11 (11/12 of population) = £42Billion (pro rata) raised in the ret of the UK. The rest of the UK borrows and spends £75Billion more (+£20Billion) black hole. – Hinkley Point + HS2. The deficit. a total waste of money.
Scotland has to pay £4Billion in loan repayments on money it doesn’t borrow or spent. Could save £1Billion on Trident/illegal wars. £1Billion on ‘loss leading’ drink. £3Billion? on tax evasion. HMRC not fit for purpose. Scotland has lost £4Billion? In Oil revenues because of high Tory taxes. 60/80% when Oil prices had fallen 75%. Losing thousands of jobs. = £13Billion which could be better spent.
That’s why Scotland would be better off with FFA/Independence. Control of spending.
MSM crowing already.
@Dr Ew
Do you think Cameron is fearful of the Scottish Green contingent?
Do you think Cameron is feeling good today? Or is he worried now the Greens have increased their seats?
Dr Ew,
I went to a public meeting at Arran High School to hear a presentation by Mr Patrick Harvie, just before the Indy Ref in 2014. It was held in the school canteen. Harvie was the only speaker and there were less than 20 members of the public there. (The reason, I recall, there were so few members of the public there was because the local press had given a wrong date & venue for Mr Harvie’s visit – I think it was just a genuine date muddle – no conspiracy)!
I am sceptical on the vigour by which the Scottish Green Party will pursue independence. This is due to the fact that I remember being very surprised, at said meeting, (as was my mother who was with me and she remembers it as I do), when Mr Harvie was asked for his personal opinion on Independence, and there was a long pregnant pause, then Mr Harvie give a shrug of his shoulders, made a ‘mew’ face, and said, ‘to be completely honest, I am not really bothered about independence one way or another’.
The canteen went very quiet and the people there all seemed to freeze – there may even have been a group intake of breath. Mr Harvie was so close ( a few feet away) I could not have misheard him.
I am very green leaning in outlook but I voted SNP/SNP yesterday, and I always will, until we are Independent, and all because of that casual (unguarded and to be fair perfectly honest) reply by Mr Harvie in 2014.
I therefore trust the SNP is on its guard apropos Mr Harvie’s level of commitment to Scottish independence, as he does not have it at the top of his ‘to do’ list and I fear it is very well down that ‘to do’ list.
Looking at the result even though not getting a majority is disappointing I do think it represents the mind of the Scottish people.
Remember during the last tv debate when Ruth was pressed on the shipyards she looked very uncomfortable well she’s gonna get that week in and week out now.
It’s gonna be like shooting fish in a barrel for Nicola.
@call me dave
Happy birthday to you Dave 😀
I have to say I’m not too disheartened by the result. They are actually better than I feared they might be.
Yes, we may not now have an SNP majority, but we do still have an pro-indy majority. Thankfully we managed to avoid having any vile ukippers in Holyrood.
The fight now becomes more clearly us against the british establishment and I suspect that might not be a bad thing in the longer term. Holyrood is going to be an interesting place in the next term.
The people of Scotland have spoken – like it or not. The cards dealt are on the table and unless a by-election comes along, that’s it. If folk don’t listen to what the Rev/James Kelly have predicted and proven, that’s their problem.
Regardless of whether the SNP governs as a minority or in coalition with the Greens, they would be very smart if they gave Andy Whightman the job of Land Reform Minister(?).
He’s absolutely the best man in Scotland for getting this top priority programme done and would also send out a signal to the Greens that the SNP wants to move forward. Work together and don’t play the cocky peacock.
Let’s consider the good news.
1) another SNP government. I believe the Holyrood committee system makes ad hoc alliances easier than WM.
2) 46.5% constituency vote, up 1.5%. Last time anyone at WM got more was 50years ago when Labour got 48%.
3) a pro Indy majority (until we hear otherwise)
4) Tories in opposition. This may be positive as the rancid face of the Union gets more exposure.
5) Labour get hammered even further for letting Scotland down.
6) No UKIP.
On balance I’m happy. However I can’t help a nagging feeling that independence is just a little further away today.
I agree with Breeks. Our principle enemy is now the BBC and the press.
The Sunday Herald will never get a penny from me again. Fuckers. We will continue to get played as long as our media is controlled by forces working against Scotland.
The SNP and the Greens and Rise need to come together, bury the hatchet and move forward in the spirit of the yes campaign. If we cannot do so and if this page becomes a perpetual slagging match between yes parties then the yoons win.
Get it out of your system now by all means but it has to stop once the dust settles. Or the yoons win. It was a contest but that contest is now over.
The parties need a fresh push to build support for indy in the summer (not forgetting EU shenanigans). WE need to take on the BBC.
What I saw last night summed up the campaign perfectly- we have been occupied.
No one else is going to do it for us and Westminster will never give up broadcasting. I don’t know how to do it and I’m all over the shop today but we need to take on the BBC and try and neutralise it’s influence, and put as many of the anti-Scottish press out of business as possible.
We are all hurting but guys who want land reform and renewable energy and an end to fracking are not my enemies. I want those things too.
The unionist parties had a successful constituency carve up (well, successful for blue and yellow but not so good for red tories). That the indy parties failed to agree on a strategy is done and dusted now.
It should have been one thing or another and without that we fell between 2 stools.
Still a good win and we will still have a government who are on the side of Scotland and her people.
It was the media- it is always the media we need to fight. That fight needs to start now
Valerie says:
6 May, 2016 at 1:35 pm
@Dr Ew
Do you think Cameron is fearful of the Scottish Green contingent?
I’d vote this guy before Green Dr Ew. Greens have stepped in, put a giant BBC toryboy block on independence and all for what, so you can end SNP addiction to not Scots oil, change a law so we can see who owns actually the Highlands, then we can all go there and have a picnic?
Scott Arthur ?@DrScottThinks 1h1 hour ago
We had a tough night, but I still want to see everyone have the opportunity to reach their full potential.
I’m #StillLabour
It does not seem inconceivable to me that the regional green vote is actually an accurate reflection of SGP support and not a case of “vote-splitting” as encouraged by the corpsemedia and other agencies.
So Dr Ew, what was the point of the Greens standing in constituencies other than as a vanity project – especially Patrick Harvie? Can the Greens be proud of helping Ruth Davidson to win her seat?
Anyway, on a positive note, the SNP increased their vote although the vagaries of the electoral system scuppered an outright majority of seats – as it was designed to do.
There were thankfully no UKIPers elected.
And don’t forget the Presiding Officer and two deputies have to be elected. No way should the SNP volunteer to fill any of these, non-voting, posts – remember last time there was an outcry when they won a clear majority *and* provided the PO.
Heedtracker
“That’s a load of rubbish too. Its busy today. Labour voters have not turned to the tories. ”
This is why, although I largely agree with the overall Wings view, I’m not a constant member and I find the wider community ridiculous at times. Let’s go through this step by step, shall we?
1.) You have to explain the rise in Tory votes somehow, unless you’re going to just hand wave about magical voting pixies or somesuch. They’re real people, with real histories, and they’ve come from somewhere.
2.) The typical Wings view is that Labour were “Red Tories.” Which one of those is the false one? It’s supposed to be the “Red” part. They’re really Tories. Aren’t they? AREN’T they?
3.) So why, if Labour is collapsing (another Wings shiboleth) do you not expect them to abandon Labour’s ship and hop aboard the SS Tory? You don’t need to claim the BBC magically lied them into abandoning all the principles they claimed to have etc, there’s where they’d naturally go anyway. You’re not seeing a conspiracy, rather the dropping of false flags and they’re showing their real faces, surely?
4.) There’s plenty of wider reasons why a shift Tory naturally makes sense; the EU referendum is sharpening the dividing lines of politics, even within Scotland. People on left and right all feel especially under attack at the moment. You ask where the talk about a RISE equivalent in the rUK is? Well, they’re not talking about it for the same reason RISE didn’t do well, the successful insurgency candidates all tend to be on the right at the moment. That’s why they’re talking UKIP in the rUK still. Plenty of lefty candidates were running, we have the Trade Unions Congress here in Bristol, but outside of the Greens, they’re not getting votes nationally.
Where as the SNP now is the Establishment, in the best possible way. They’re the natural party of Government, and they do it well, so people voted for them. But you’re completely missing the major rage building on the right, and globally. It’s nothing to do with BBC conspiracies or Green parties stealing votes the SNP should have had… it’s a genuine rise in the radical right globally. It’s Trump in the US and Le Pen in France; and it’s coming from within their own communities, not this one or the Left online…
5.) And Independence is just NOT as important to everyone as the bubble here; there’s a million questions and it’s only the answer to some. For many, now the SNP has shown that it can’t get a YES vote by itself (just yet) the politics are naturally going to shift about to other concerns for long term governance…
“Name one Green policy that makes sense. North Sea oil bad? Land reform matters so much to you because?”
Yeah, it really, really is bad. Nationalists tend to love oil because it’s the means by which Scotland can make a lot of money short term… but globally, as a species, we should be desperately pumping carbon back into the ground as fast as possible. The science shows we may already be beyond the tipping point on climate change where the consequences are disastrous; And as yesterday’s elections weren’t really about Independence, you can’t expect someone with green views to ignore tackling global catastrophe now via the main means to do it, local Government. They’re an SNP voter ONLY in the Independence Debates, because your views align. Greens vote for Independence because they think it’s the best way to server their global issues, by breaking the link to a Tory Government that ignores them. But on this vital issue, they never did and never were yours to claim as a party.
6.) Of course, that doesn’t mean they won’t work with you on health and education and… unless of course you insist the answer to everything all the time is Independence, and anyone who hinders the perfect path to that is a despicable ("Tractor" - Ed)… in which case, you’ll see the lines on the left hardening too, and the SNP going from a respected national unity party to being a bunch of inter-factional enemies, rather like Labour became in fact.
You won a huge victory yesterday, you proved the SNP are respected as national leaders, but are sulking because it wasn’t a 100% sweep and all about your pet issue of Independence. Even though you don’t have to do a thing about that to get another crack of the whip at it post EU-Referendum anyway. You’re being ridiculous. And self defeating yet again. “Marvelous victory, glad to work with progressives to lock out the Tories for the benefit of Scotland we were all elected to serve…” This isn’t hard, folks!
Stop being so daft, and go out and enjoy your carbon-enhanced heatwave.
alison johnstone split the vote and let ruthie in, very possibly, there was only a few 100 in it
what other green candidate changed any of the constituency results?. none that i can see
had everyone voted snp on the list, greens, solidarity and rise,
the difference would be
greens minus 6, no patrick harvey etc
but the snp would have gained only 4 list seats, 3 from the greens, (including finnie and wightman) and one from the tories by 366 votes
the other 2 green seats would have gone to the unionists
the snp voters stayed at home and the yoons did not, and they tactically voted. that is why we
BBC r4 hourly news, kicks off with “SNP has failed…” and then, David Cameron near hysterical at tory Scotland triumph, on just over 20% of the Scots vote and with a great deal of help from the Green party, to get Ruth in.
Lets cut away to some slick wealthy LibDem lords like Baron Nicol Steven raging away at NO more referendum for the Scotland region, its anti democratic.
What a rule Britnatia BBC farce.
Why did the Greens stand in constituencies?
Why did the SNP? Why didn’t the SNP withdraw from 2 or 3 key constituencies and leave the way clear for the Greens to mop up the pro-indy vote?
Do you actually understand politics? Democratic process?
Do you get that life and politics is not on hold until independence is achieved?
Most of all, hands up anybody who thinks the SNP can achieve independence for Scotland all on their own?
Adam Tomkins exposed to the limelight. The Tories will be seen in their arroganr best behaviour. He belongs to the rulling party of the UK. He cannot hide.
Free Slovenia now!
Maybe we can apply some d’hondt style principles to our media. I mean, it wouldn’t be terribly fair if one side had an outright majority over the broadcast media, now would it? That just wouldn’t be right.
Doesn’t it strike you as odd that our parliamentary protocols serve to discourage any single party securing an outright majority, but yet there is not one word of protest about our media having no outright majority to broadcast whatever it likes, when, instead, it has a total monopoly on doing so with absolute impunity?
the greens only stood in 2 constituencies (lost constituency deposits are £500 a pop)
harvey and johnstone, I dont think anyone saw the davidson win, not even her.
yes, alison johnstone may well have split the vote but the main reason we lost this seat and all the other constituencies is because the snp failed to mobilise their voters and the unionists did
In the land of the living again. It doesn’t feel any better today. I look forward to those who thought it such a good idea to give Greens list vote being the leading lights of the summer Indi push. I hope i am proved wrong but I do not believe Greens have Indi as a high priority and nothing Harvie has said would make me think otherwise.
For those slagging the SNP their overall number of votes increased. On the other hand we have Edin Central Green taking votes away and allowing Ruthless in. They underperform predictions regularly.
I am not a good loser.
Robert Peffers says:
6 May, 2016 at 1:34 pm
@Dr Ew says: 6 May, 2016 at 9:04 am:
” … If it’s an overall majority for indy you wanted, we’ve got it.”
Have we? I’m not so sure the Greens are officially really a pro-indy party. Even if it was official green policy, (and I cannot recall ever seeing it in their manifestos),
it seems a rather wishy-washy version.
The Green’s campaign literature suggested a petition of a million signatures as a trigger for a second referendum.
link to greens.scot
Using votes from this election and the % of each party supporting independence from opinion polls(assuming 80% of green voters back indy) gives a total of -guess what? – almost exactly one million.
In other words, a successful petition needs a turnout and response on the same level as yesterday’s election just to trigger Indyref2 support from them – an almost impossibly high hurdle to overcome.
schrodingers cat says: how are you?
harvey and johnstone, I dont think anyone saw the davidson win, not even her.
The thing is, YES people were pulling their hair out for months with the old exasperation at UKOK gerrymandering cunning stunts just like this.
If I were a BBC ligger, I’d be overjoyed at the success of my brilliant plan, massive BBC led blanket media campaign boosts for Greens and far left RISE and blammo! it gets me Ruth Davidson winning!, in Edinburgh too! The National con artists in particular will have wee celebration tonight, on the Herald ed’s no doubt.
A great day for British attack propaganda and gerrymandering on Scottish democracy.
Could their shyste have been any more effective last night? Doesn’t matter, its a fantastic UKOK tory triumph that they’ll use to savage the life out of Scotland running Scotland, for ever.
I can never tire from repeating this, what happened to the over 1 million people who signed up for Yes with all three details, address, post code et al just before the referendum.
In other words there’s already a fucking petition expressing over a million people wanted Independence. It’s a fucking joke to suggest the Greens now need another ‘petition’…seriously?
How can people fall for this shit!!!
Hey! David Cameron your praising Ruth Davidson’s triumph?
The SNP won more seats than the Tories,Labour and Lib/Dems combined. Get real Cameron.
I can hear a tory on telly explain that last night was THE tory break through in Scotland. Break on through to the other side. It is a huge break through and all to stop Scotland running Scotland.
Thanks Greens.
heed, if ukok media bumming up the snp caused their voters to be complacent, then it succeeded
but if all greens/solidarity and rise supporters had voted snp2 on the list as was requested by many
the greens would have lost 3 seats in 3 regions to the yoons
the snp would have won no seats in 2 regions
the snp would have replaced finnie (ex snp green)in the highlands with one snp msp
the snp would have gained 1 msp from the tories in the south region
the snp would have gain both greens in lothian
however, had all the snp voters voted greens/rise/solidarity in the list, the snp may not have an overall majority but the tories and slab would now be relegated to the cheap seats up at the back along with rennie
And now its Fraser Nelson oozing out, Scottish Conservative is no longer a contradiction of terms and Ruth Davidson is now a Scottish tory goddess.
had we all followed the snp1&2 mantra, we would have succeeded in winning 1 list seat from tories, none from the libdems or slab
schrodingers cat says:
If if’s and buts were candy etc.
You make fair points but points on what might have happened. If you want to vote tacticaly or Green or anyone, that’s totally fine SC.
But look at what has actually happened. Ruth’s win really could be a tory breakthrough, says me. But it doesn’t matter what we think. This is a full on triumph for BBC led media UKOK monstering on Scotland for the next five years.
To cap it all, we’ll have to endure the nightmare of Green waffle. If you want to know how bad it gets Green wise in their Scotland region, check out them out in Aberdeen. Holy macshit.
I would question the assumption that there were any significant numbers of SNP voters who changed their vote from SNP on the constituency to Green on the list.
The SNP got 4.8% less votes on the list than the constituency so on the face of it 4.8% of SNP voters did change, but were they SNP supporters voting list green or were they green supporters voting constituency SNP because outside of a couple of areas there were no green constituency candidates for the greens to vote for.
The greens got 0.6% on the constituency but 6.6% on the list. It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that had there been green candidates in every constituency, the green vote on the constituency would be at or close to the 6.6% that they got on the list.
I would suspect that the reality is that the green vote is close to the 6.6% they got rather than that there were large numbers of SNP voters that voted green on the list.
This voting system is difficult to “play”. How about next time around we have two different parties. Vote Scottish National Party on the constituency and National Party of Scotland on the list.
There is someting clearly wrong with this system, you get rejected by you constituency , and yet you get a party seat, the labour party pick up 22.5% and get 25 seats yet fat arse’s party get 22% and 31 seats….Half a Percent less and six more seats, there doesn’t seem to be a number of seats the constituency seats the ……In simple arithmetic the whole shebang doesn’t necessarily represent a good method of Proportional representation but Isuppose that’s just the way of it
@ gordonross exactly my point at !:52 I think folk should consider this before getting all accusatory.
A very good result given the system at Holyrood designed to keep the SNP out.
A minority government who will not have to give much away given the obvious bear trap waiting for Labour if they align with the Tories.A BT team up will really finish them off.
A majority of MSPs who favour Independence – I am pleased with this outcome given the other possibilities.
The SNP hard work from the last period will start to show results now and should show the party in a good light.
It’s the long haul we are in for.
…and the bonus. The Tories at Westminster will be in melt down when Brexit fails.
After a day on the road I feel quite upbeat tonight. A third term SNP Government, and a pro-Indy majority of 69 MSPs.
I tend to agree with Paula Rose and Gordon Ross, that perhaps the vote for Greens was just its natural vote, and tactical voting which could be either way SNP for Green on the list, Green for SNP on the list, just cancelled itself out.
One thing though, the constituency vote for the SNP rose yet again, and for that we have to thank not just SNP voters, but also Green voters in at least 70 out of 73 constituencies. Without them some constituencies would not have gone SNP.
Titler – or maybe that should be Tatler – scatters a load of old bird seed at Wings a budgie would sneer at, and then drops in a wonderful joke. And here it is:
“Where as the SNP now is the Establishment”
You don’t have to be an intellectual to explain you’re a fool.
I don’t know what the computer did to my post@6 May, 2016 at 2:36 pm but for some reason it changed the name Robin to Robert when I typed in the name of the former green MSP Robin Harper