Something something Oceania
As you can perhaps tell, we’re starting to run out of post titles referencing “1984” and the Ingsoc habit of rewriting newspaper versions of history to pretend that certain things which happened didn’t happen, and vice versa. Here’s today’s case in point:
Wait a minute – “shifts to”? Are we sure about that?
“A white paper publishing our proposals for independence will be published in November 2013.” (BBC quoting government spokesman, 28 December 2012)
“The SNP government is due to publish the white paper in November 2013.” (Willie Rennie, Scottish Liberal Democrat website, 2 November 2012)
“The Scottish Government is publishing its policy proposals for energy and the low carbon economy, financial services, transport, and defence and security between now and November when it will produce its White Paper on Scottish independence.” (Alistair Ross, for law firm Pinsent Masons, 21 March 2013)
“The First Minister has scheduled publication of his eagerly awaited White Paper on Independence for November, about a year before the 2014 referendum.” (Angus Macleod in The Times, 29 December 2012)
“Some of Scotland’s finest writers are to be asked by the SNP to apply a dash of literary magic to its much-anticipated white paper on independence in November.” (Kevin McKenna in the Observer, 13 July 2013)
We could go on. Just a few weeks ago, the Observer was stating as a fact that the white paper would come out in November. Now we learn that it’s to come out in November, as everyone’s been expecting, yet its sister paper bills the decision as a “shift” and something that’s been “forced” (implying weakness) onto the First Minister, despite no other month ever having been suggested by the Scottish Government.
(The only people who ever named earlier dates were Labour peer George Foulkes and Labour MP Jim Murphy, back in August, to widespread scepticism and suspicion. Nevertheless, the Guardian piece was immediately propagated by other Scottish journalists including David Torrance and Paul Hutcheon of the Herald.)
Don’t take your eyes off them for a second, folks. We have to sleep sometime.
It’s Severin what more can one say. I’m sure he muat wake up in the night yelling “Salmond accused” Severin just goes for straight propaganda though – he isn’t out and out bat shit like Cochers
More mince from the captain of mince … the Guardian’s ‘Scottish Correspondent’ Severin Carrell …… who I do not think lives in Scotland …. maybe someone will confirm that … a man famous for articles saying it is totally disgusting the Scottish Government are doing what they promised to do in their manifesto yet strangely quite about Anwar Anas’ train crash last Thursday night or the Gideot’s totally barking speech to the oil industry in Aberdeen on Monday …
Just how far past the bottom of the barrel of sense or logical argument has the ‘Bitter Together mob’ and their Islington and Hampstead media cheer leaders now gone?
Between this and PMQ’s my head is feeling tender from consistently bashing it against the fucking wall.
Roll on the Indy March for some well deserved positivity.
Whatever next? SNP in dire straits as UN dismiss their bedroom tax as ‘inhumane’.
Tories to defend universal education from dastardly Salmond?
Labour ‘we masterminded this whole referendum thing and Alex Salmond was just a pawn’.
‘Independence for Scotland gives us the best of both worlds’ – Says Cameron.
To be followed tomorrow by an exclusive that Scottish Government officials have been forced to concede that grass is actually green.
It takes a tortured mind to say the white paper has been moved back to November when every source he quotes in the article says the white paper would be released in November.
O/T, but in a similar vein, I doubt I’m the first to notice the contrast in the lead item this lunch-time between the BBC Scotland and UK sites.
BBC UK – Unemployment rate falls to 7.7%
BBC Scotland – Unemployment up 10,000 – with the rate (7.4%) buried in the text and no attempt at explaining the difference.
The more things change, etc.
I’m not sure what value to give him on the Madometer between mildly confused and batshit crazy.
Oooh, but he thinks there were oblique hints that it might be brought out early. That’s enough!
No doubt near the time we will have: “White Paper rushed out” and “a [vague] source within the SNP said it’s full of last minute amendments”, cue obligatory one-year-old ‘Top Secret’ dossier presented by the NO campaign to prove amendments were made to the White Paper blah blah blah
Stupidly I went and read this piece online. Should have stuck to your edit.
We already new the target was November as you say.
Boy this guy can write lots & lots about nothing and still make it sound important and as negative as possible. Glad I don’t read English papers or any papers for that matter anymore; not first hand anyway.
If we cannot stop this crap nor hold the MSM liable in any meaning way, then we ALL need to embark on a positive and emotive campaign ourselves.
I suggested our own posters,yes, we all go and get some done and get them up.
However, highly emotive posters psycho analyzed to get Scots really thinking and making it difficult for them not to vote YES.
Some may that is a tad unfair, I see it as a way to counteract the tactics of the MSM, and all the Unionist crowd. A poll on some effective slogans?
How’s about that one Rev?
If we secure a Yes vote the White paper will be hugely important. I expect it to be a robust document. I wonder if Severin will actually report on its content..or will that be seen as giving succour to the nationalist cause?
From the article:
“Salmond’s opponents heard strong suggestions that it could even be this coming Wednesday, on 18 September, to catch the “year to go” hook.”
A lie. They heard no such thing. Carrell has just made that up.
Oh, and funny how he views the Panelbase poll giving Yes the lead as ‘artfully-built’, but has no such reservations about the You Gov and Ashcroft polls.
A liar and a dissembler.
It seems that this is the standard of journalism in the UK, how sad! The problem is many journalists have become mere reporters of the opinions of vested interests, rather than their true role as democratic guardians. In short, they have become lazy unprofessional hacks. If they won’t act as members of the fourth estate, then they should expect neither public esteem nor their alleged professional status to continue untarnished.
Has there perhaps been some sniff that it might be a bit late?
Coincidentally, I only just started reading Nineteen Eighty-Four on Monday, and it was the repeated mentions of it on this site which prompted me to finally pick it up.
@Gordon Hay – Noticed that Gordon, also Bernard Ponsonby has just gleefully reminded viewers that on the day John Swinney announces the Scottish Budget, unemployment has risen by 10,000. No mention that it is still lower than the rest of the UK! BBC/STV you takes your pick.
The two referendum bills are timetabled to get royal assent in November 2013, when the Scottish government will also publish a white paper detailing its “prospectus for independence” and setting out the Scottish National party’s vision for an independent Scotland.
Severin Carrell Tuesday 23 April 2013 10.45 BST
.
link to theguardian.com
@Dave Atherfold, good find and a touch embarrassing for Carrel if he had any sense of shame but alas.
Personally I think that the Scottish Goverment should be a little vague about when the White Paper will be issued (at least to the exact day), because you can be damn sure that BT will simultaneously produce some manufactured revelations to distort and divert the media from what the WP actually says, as they did with the latest GERS and also the recent Panelbase poll(s).
No wonder they howled when the SG said they’d send a copy to everyone so they can read it for themselves – they’re afraid the truth will get out, and that would never do.
I wonder how long it took Severin to write that obfuscatory drivel? #sadwasteofalife
I personally couldn’t give a toss what day or month it comes out. And I’m sure the majority of folk who will be voting couldn’t either. What’s so horrifying about having 12 months to get your head something before voting, or about 9 months instead?
It’s oh so scary and volatile!! Ugh.
‘Severin Carrell’s journalistic integrity shifts to the twelfth of never’
Only a foreign (in this case English) newspaper would have a ‘Scottish correspondent’.
Why would anyone read a foreign newspaper for domestic news? Probably why the Guardian has a circulation less than the population of Dalkeith.
Serverin is just leading English people up the garden path.
Holyrood live on now – John Swinney budget speech, BBC News Channel.
I don’t know how you can’t get this – it’s embarrassingly simple. Salmond announced that the White Paper would be in November and is now completely backtracking and saying it will in fact be November.
However I have some well-informed contacts inside the SNP and I can tell you that both of these reports are wrong: the White Paper will actually be in November. The SNP acknowledges that there is a dissident group within the party who don’t hold with any of these options and want instead a White Paper in November, but my tip from the centre of the debate is that it will be none of these: it will be November, with the only other possibility receiving any attention being November.
FFS, let’s just do the simple stuff. Let’s bomb the Syrians.
Its not just the Scottish media that are going to be between a rock and a hard place when the Yes vote comes through. The rUK readers of the Gruniad, Telegraph, Mail, etc. are going to be howling why were we not told what it would mean ‘cos it is certainly going to affect them big time too and they’ll only have 8 months till their General Election.
Scottish Immigration Scoring post Sep 2014 … Journalist +10 points … i.e. badly needed.
Mr Carrell has removed 2 of my posts I feel quite honoured , it is so difficult to be delted in the Guardian LOL
Scotsman I got banned so many times I just stopped even reading it on line for laughs.
I look in rarely and now so few comments ,which is good ,and they are mostly Rufus , Norsewarrior ,and a few other out of country unionists spewing anti Scottish/Salmond/SNP bile to each other.
PS Someone once suggested Norsewarrior/Yeah1/ was Duncan Hothersall anyone else hear that?
Major
I agree – the SG should publish the document unannounced. I am sure that BT will have some piece of fluff in their underpants that they will produce so desperate are they that the Yes campaign do not obtain any vantage point in the media at all. I am sure that the BBC will run headlines on the most inane BT press release as is their wont (as official voice piece of the No campaign).
Is there an “arse” in Severin Carrell?
We know there is!
OT: Posted this comment on the ‘Weekly Wanker’ article about Wings. I noticed that it’s gone into an approval queue and if it doesn’t get through then it can be read below. I apologise if I may be misinterpreting you, Stu, but I just said how I saw it.
I’m sorry. You undermine much of your good points about the dangers of discrimination with your army of strawmen marching through this article in the direction of Stuart Campbell.
You are right that there is no place for any kind of hate speech and I agree with that wholeheartedly. I don’t want an intolerant independent Scotland. I want a country that welcomes everyone and does not punish people for who they are or their circumstances.
However, I don’t see your specific points about what Stuart Campbell said. From that pic, I don’t see any attempt to deny Chelsea Manning’s existence (and your later attempt to marry this with violence, murder, hatred and discrimination are the straw men I mentioned earlier…). He is arguing to refer to a person however he likes and openly says that he is fine with Chelsea Manning referring to herself as a woman but he wants the choice to choose not to. I don’t quite agree with that since the logical conclusions can lead to some unpleasant areas but I don’t quite see this as transphobia. Perhaps being belligerent and rude for belligerence sake, though.
Genuine question (I’m not trying to bait), if this has been an argument about calling a cisgender by the wrong gender would it be cisphobia? Or would that only apply if the person was transgender?
“I apologise if I may be misinterpreting you, Stu”
No, that’s pretty close except the bit about being rude and belligerent for rudeness and belligerence’s sake – I spoke the way I did because it was a personal conversation with a very good friend and we talk to each other bluntly and with the safety net of a lot of background knowledge of each other’s actual beliefs. (Which, bless his heart, he spent a lot of time patiently explaining to idiots after the exchange went public.) We just don’t normally do it over Twitter, where people can eavesdrop without any of that knowledge and thereby leap to spectacularly wrong conclusions.
On the issue itself – if Novak Djokovic suddenly decides he’s a woman and wishes to live as such, does he get to play in the Ladies’ Singles at Wimbledon? Genuine question.
@Vronsky
Let’s bomb the Syrians.
I wonder if Cameron and Co are re-evaluating the power of the Press? There they had the war drums beatingand all the jingo flags unfurled in the MSM and they were told NO. And the polls shewed that the No echoed the mood of “the nation”.
Question for Westminster; How is democracy going to work if people dont follow the propaganda?
Question for BT; What do you do now?
O/T
Watching Scottish budget and BBC cut off John Swinney before we hear his response to claims by Tories on business taxes etc. inn order to listen to Labour’s Alf Young’s much more important views views.
They won’t dare do that to George Osborne.
With this “We were told November and now its November” and Budget Announcements, i find myself remembering Labour demanding 10’000 Apprenticeships before they would support the Scottish Govt Budget. The SNP delivered 25’000 Apprenticeships…Labour duly abstained!
The depths these people will sink to have yet to plumbed, we can expect more of the same in the next year. It is quite obvious now that most of the scare stories promulgated in recent times have been exposed for the lies and half truths they are, all the border post , out of the EU, no oil left nonsense has not fooled the Scottish people one bit,and I think these idiots are deluding themselves if they think getting more outrageous and blatant in the exaggeration and fabrication of their tales of woe is going to start working now. Each time one of their myths is debunked , it is another nail in the coffin of the unionist cause, I now hear the BBC trust is to investigate the blatant misrepresentation of the comments made by Irish minister Lucinda Creighton in January, and the subsequent news blackout on her clarification on what she actually said, wonder how long it will take for them to clear BBC Scotland of any wrong doing !!
Watch democracy live (scotland)
You wont get the BBC interruptions and enjoy all the fun.
Which is still going on.
Wasn’t Ian Gray just dreadful…
Poor old Severin Carrell, his favourite political party introduces an inhumane tax on the poor people living in private rented accommodation. The Tories and LibDems take his party’s inhumane tax and expands it to cover all rented accommodation. The UN send in a special advisor to investigate the killer tax and, unsurprisingly, she comes out with a report stating this tax is inhumane. What is poor Severin to do?
He can not attack the Tories and LibDems over this killer tax because to do so would draw attention to his favourite political party who actually introduced the killer tax. The only thing he can do is take a well known fact and try to create the impression that the date for the White paper has been changed despite a stack of evidence to the contrary.
Why write an article about something that is newsworthy when you can create the illusion of a news story that is in effect a NON story! Keep doing what you are doing Severin you’re doing the world of journalism a power of good by showing the world just how poor and petty UK journalists really are. Keep on digging Severin not far to go now till you reach the bottom of the barrel!
EN-GB
X-NONE
I quite agree on the subliminal message here.
@Vronsky
Read your post and was thinking how much more sense it made than anything Severin usully manages to say. Maybe yoy can send him your Windows & update to help him otherwise we’re just in for more of the same malignant stutterances…
Oh Scottish budget debate truncated to hear the Westminster Nat Bashing Question Time
Vronsky,
With all due respect that’s complete bullshit. Your SNP “insider” hasn’t got a scooby.
The white paper that was originally scheduled to be released in November has actually been pushed back to November.
If your going to post on this site then please have the decency to check the facts first.
P.S.
As I type this the release date has once again been pushed back. It’s now due for release in November. Serves me right for being too hot on the submit button!
Apologies for my appalling typos. Should have waited a couple of months eh?
@handclapping
The Americans decided a long time go that the Syrians were on their bombing list. Americans stick to their bombing lists, and public opinion is of little consequence. Remember the level of public demonstration against the attack on Iraq, but it went ahead anyway? Iraq was on the list.
Syria is on the list, and rest assured it will be dealt with in turn – with the whole-hearted support of the Labour Party, of course.
Right now it’s just a matter of finding the best PR timing, getting the story right, briefing the BBC on how they sell the slaughter to all those mongs who believe their ‘news’ broadcasts. Fortified with the Beeb’s posh-voiced moral indignation, you can murder as many little brown people as you like.
Plus I heard the SNP can’t decide on what shade of white it should be. Bloody shower.
Vote Labour, and save an MP from destitution.
I wonder what month April Fool’s Day falls on so I can send Severin a “Happy Birthday” card?
Anyone know?
I also heard that the SNP will disguise the White Paper by putting false moustaches on copies so they can be issued in Movember instead.
Oh, how Severin and his ilk must long for the days when they could safely parrot their master’s voice and the proles would buy into their bull – or even if they didn’t, they certainly wouldn’t have had any form of redress.
What a shame.
There is a considerable suspicion that the document will now be printed on paper. Johann Lamont said that this is exactly the sort of thing she has come to expect of the SNP and accused Salmond of running a tired Government bereft of ideas.
O/T
Rev, some months ago I mentioned the use of rbutr http://www.rbutr.com
My comment didn’t make it to the discussion stage. Perhaps it was read as some devious spam or attempt to devalue WOS?
Rbutr is an app and plug-in to your browser that flags up any time an article has been rebutted.
For example, imagine an article in the Scotsman about ‘Scottish English Border Control’… a person comes across it while browsing (maybe they are a ‘don’t know) and they can immediately see that the article has already been rebutted over on WOS.
This is a game changer.
Overnight, you could have the Yes community rebuttals being disseminated much further. The propaganda becomes worthless.
I mention it again because I genuinely think it could be the way to get the best leverage from the WOS articles. The WOS-SER’s on here making many of the links.
What do you think? Is it worth highlighting and encouraging?
Wouldnt it be great to see the browser ‘light up’ on the Better Together Website where they have posted some misleading piece? They cannot block it!!
if any of you think we could afford to lose top talent such as, ian davidson, david mundell, mag curran, mike moore, jo swinson, anus sarwar etc then i suggest you all vote for a separatist scotland and alex salmond, see where that gets you.. sheesh , honestly, some people
This just in….
link to bettertogether.net
Another load of half truths… imagine if the rbutr light came on when you read it!
The Scottish government planning the release of the White Paper in November? They must be doing it deliberately. What do you think Baron Foulkes of Cumnock?
They should release it on the 5th right??
Cameron, you just beat me to it. 🙂
Severin’s next scoop:
“The Guardian can reveal that Alex Salmond has clandestinely adopted the title of ‘First Minister’ since becoming First Minister in 2007. Opponents had heard strong rumours that the First Minister had shifted his title from First Minister to ‘First Minister’ but only now can the Guardian reveal it to be true..’
I saw the description “arsefire” somewhere on here and it answers to the call for some word to describe the BETTER TOGETHER campaign
What next from Severin Carrell?
“Alex Salmond’s independence white paper shifts to white”
———————————————————————
“The First Minister is a master of political theatre but unexpected events and a crowded photocopy room are effecting the launch of the biggest document of his career, the independence white paper”
JUst heard, St Andrews day has been pushed to the 30 November so that Salmond
Can get his white(ish) paper published in November af all times.
Are there no depths to which this man will not go? WHAT IS HE AFRAID OF?
@Vronsky
I dont think our Westminster warriors will get in on the act. You need a naval task force offshore so you want allies even cheese eating surrender monkeys who actually have an aircraft carrier and the planes to fly from it. Accrotiri would be nice but its further away and would be more difficult to co-ordinate.
IMO if Call Me Dave still wants his own war, he’d better wait till its started and then join in which probably means November. So it wasn’t the WP that was delayed it was Dave’s war.
Will it have TOP SECRET in big red letters across the front?
Vronsky
You going to Edinburgh on the 21st?
Do you want to meet up in The Albanach, on the High Street at or about 12 noon.
Conan and maybe Tris and certainly Jeannie plus anyone else, with pleasure, will be there?
BtP
David – The Speaker in HoC has decreed that the word separate or separatist should not be used when discussing Scottish independence – it must be referred to as independence.
@Rev: Glad I was reasonably close. I was just sharing my personal opinion over it. I understand very well we talk to friends/family differently than strangers. I meant more in response to people outside of that specific conversation although I don’t blame you for it, I tend to lose my temper very quickly when people tell lies about me or tell me what I think or what happened to me.
As for the Wimbledon question, I got the impression that he couldn’t considering what was done to that woman sprinter who had to prove that her lady parts were natural and not surgically created.
“I meant more in response to people outside of that specific conversation”
Oh yeah – if people are saying cretinously stupid and offensive things about/to me, I’ll certainly just tell them to go fuck a pig. I have nothing but contempt for idiots and see no great merit in hiding it.
On the issue itself – if Novak Djokovic suddenly decides he’s a woman and wishes to live as such, does he get to play in the Ladies’ Singles at Wimbledon? Genuine question.
There has been a lot of debate about sports competitions and this topic, particularly fuelled by Caster Semenya (who really is a woman but has some hormonal abnormality). If I recall correctly there comes a point in the transition of a male-to-female transsexual where there is not believed to be any remaining advantage, and some participation is permitted. I don’t know what the specific rules are for each sport and in particular I don’t know the tennis rules. Some people maintain that the extra body mass built up by someone who grew up as a male will always constitute an unfair advantage.
Sex isn’t a one-thing-or-the-other sitiation. For most people it’s extremely obvious and uncontentious which side of the fence they fall, but not for everyone. Genotype, phenotype and brain sex can differ, and come on a sliding scale anyway. People who don’t conform to the norms have always had a hellish time of it, and as a society we’re still learning how to cope with them, and how to give them enough space to build a non-hellish life.
Sport participation is a particularly difficult question, but it’s certainly one that has received quite a lot of attention.
theeforsakenone
Nice one. I was also a little confused by their ‘presentation of evidence’.
i was watching. he never took it seriously tho
@CameronB: Yeah I was genuinely confused too. The writer in the article even said that they did not have the energy to explain their problem but it was ‘obvious’. As a writer myself, I found that rather irritating because of the sheer laziness. I have a feeling that explaining it would have ruined the link to the straw men who follow immediately after the ‘obvious’ statement so that was perhaps why they did it — a poor and insulting trick.
I hear that Anas Sarwar has a ‘Top Secret’ copy of the Independence White Paper dated for release the 31st November.
The unionist community are desperate for this document to appear so that they can pore over the contents and set their legal and constitutional experts the task of uncovering new material to fuel their anti-independence propaganda machines. Given that they’re still trying to make hay with the infamous ‘Top Secret’ document from 2012 (Anas Sarwar last week and another MP today at Scottish questions at Westminster) its clear that they have a real dearth of material to get their teeth into. They can’t even fill the information gap with their own positive case for the Union !
Morag
Do human fetuses not all start of as female? If so, we were all women once.
“Do human fetuses not all start of as female?”
I believe that’s the “factory setting”, yes. Y chromosome causes differentiation.
BtW et al – re The Albanach, as I live at Abbeyhill, I am handy for the High St. and Albanach, so myself + a few friends intend to get to Albanch @ 10.30 ish to bags seats for any WoSers who arrive. Don’t know how many seats they will let us reserve but will do our best;-)
I will be wearing a rather fetching pale blue WoS T-Shirt which, depending on the weather, may be covered by a jacket. However, I’m willing to flash the WoS logo on my chest as long as no-one reports me for sexual harassment!
TJenny
I will be wearing a rather fetching Bugger (the Panda) sweat or tee shirt (weather determinant) and will arrive at Waverley at about 11:31 so, factor that in for my reserved seat.
Cleverin is such a product of another era. Supporting Laybah and writing for the Guardian in Cleverin’s eyes make him not just the class intellectual but the coolest dude at school. He probably bores everyone rigid at dinner parties prattling on about the Clash and Tom Waits.
Maybe one or two of these will come along on 21st too.
Seems they agree that we can make independence work
link to michaelgreenwell.wordpress.com
According to the numbers on Roll Call it might be a bit packed in the Albanach!
Somehow,i don’t thik we will be evicted. getting drinks at the bar might be the problem.
Everyone BYOB under the tables?
Paula Rose
Just what I was thinking. 🙂
Scotsman lounge just down Cockburn St.
Norrie
Overspill with video link?
BtP
If Albanach still has a door on Cockburn St we could just shout.
Norrie
As the `No campaign have accused us of doing anyway?
Hell we may have to take over the top of the street anyway.
I don’t think anyone will still be in a bar at 11.30, somehow. Marchers to assemble from 11 am, with the march itself to head off at 12 noon. The High Street is going to be quite crowded I suspect, and groups will need to be getting themselves in position.
I would recommend trying for near the front of the march, so as to bagsie the best places on the hill when we get there.
Morag
Can you keep me a place on Gethsemane, pleas
OOpppss, forgot the Smiley thingy!
When does Labour’s white paper with their vision of an independent Scotland come out?
creag an tuirc
A McLaren or a Balquidder resident?
the answer to your question caller, is the “12th of Never”
“I don’t think anyone will still be in a bar at 11.30, somehow”
Morag, as any seasoned football-goer will tell you that’s plenty of time to get another 6 pints in before the noon kick off 😉
This whole comments section is confusing me.
Can someone just clear up:
Will it be White?
Will it come out in November?
Will it be made of paper?
If it isn’t all of these three things I for one will be voting ‘No’ as it will show that the BT campaign were right all along about Alex Salmond (or should that be Alex Salmond).
Just a thought, can one of you tweeters get a thread started in which people make these type of comments, which mocks the original article. You can paste and copy some of the tongue in cheek comments about Sevrins article on here, just to get it going.
On the issue itself – if Novak Djokovic suddenly decides he’s a woman and wishes to live as such, does he get to play in the Ladies’ Singles at Wimbledon? Genuine question
=============================================================
No ,but he could play in the mixed doubles on his own
Rod Mac
guffaws
There used to be a time when the papers reported the news. that’s why they were called newspapers.
Nowadays they don’t so much report it as make it up.
@ RodMac Ow. If there were a pith award here, that would win it.
Too late to edit: That’s – not ‘that’s’.
@ MajorBloodnok says:
I also heard that the SNP will disguise the White Paper by putting false moustaches on copies so they can be issued in Movember instead.
It’d show a nice sense of humour if the SG held up the White Paper in November to reveal a photoshopped red stamp on the front saying ‘Not Secret At All’.
Morag – As the Albanch is only a few yards from the Albanach, I thought that when we hear the pipers start up (only a hop, step and jump from Albanach) and lead the marching, we could just ooze out the pub and into the swarm behind them. This might mean drinks have to be left unfinished though.
T Jenny
Interwebby mobile telecommunications alerting stuff is required here.
Two volunteers, one in the Albanach and the other on the main March, with good paid up mobile contracts willing to be Morse signallers for the procession down that bloody Edinburgh half boulevard?
Morag for the March and anyone not on PayAsYeGo tariff in the Albanach crew?
It might be fun to run some sort of sweepstake on the eventual numbers on the 21st. Of course it will never be established exactly how many people attended, even to the nearest 100 or so, so nobody could win, but it would still be fun.
Or then again, we could just take the number the cops quote, double it, and declare that to be the actual total.
Last post should read ‘as the Albanach is only a few yards from Parly Sqare mustering point’
The contributors on here have inspired me to write my first post. There is a big problem getting our message out to the public. I agree with an earlier comment that we should start making our own posters and getting them out there, another idea is putting a short message on the back of letters and parcels (Christmas is coming) We have to get stuck in and reach out to people.
VOTE YES
T jenny
ever heard of surreptitious Thermos flasks?
I may pop into the Albanach for a wee snifter myself.
Should I bring my copy of the White Paper in case Sevvy turns up?
I’m just wondering how many people the area can take. It’s not like the Meadows last year, where anything under about 100,000 was going to be pretty much lost in the space. If we had 10,000 last year, which I think we did, there could easily be 30,000 this year, or even more. I think we need to be ready for it to be crowded. And what’s the betting other groups will have spotted the potential of the Albannach.
Morag
My gut feeling, that is all, is that it will be over 50,000.
This will be reduced by the MSM to about 3,000 and by Monkton to 17
BtP
Maybe this is all part of some psychological campaign to dis-orientate the yes voting public into doubting their own sanity –
Gaslighting
link to en.wikipedia.org
Or maybe it’s just yet another of the endless examples of the usual piss-poor standards of Britnat journalism. Is there any other kind?
Joe kane
Double plus good!
Anas Anwar has called out the SNP as racist by having the temerity of calling the document the ‘White’ Paper as it should reflect all ethnic communities living in Scotland, while Ruth Davidson added that there is clear confusion by releasing the Paper in November as it coincides with her involvement with Movember… Lord Ffffoulkes wanted to know how many trees suffered in the production of this unwarranted and unwanted Paper and *hic slabbered that the SNP are doing this deliberately.
Note: For clarification Ms Davidson does not grow a moustache for charity, instead she plaits the hair on her arse for good causes.
I’m going for around 20/30,000. Let’s not get too carried away. 🙂
Did someone mention Anas? 😉
That didn’t work. Beamer.
link to en.wikipedia.org
voronsky says
“FFS, let’s just do the simple stuff. Let’s bomb the Syrians. ”
that you all over, always looking for the easy way out 😉
TJenny, Paula, Morag, et al
Anyone spotted slipping out of the Albanach and making for the head of the procession will be intercepted and sent to the rear, pronto. This will allow the march to proceed smoothly and avoid the potential for disruption caused by “Whisky hunger” syndrome, where drinkers howl for fish suppers, kebabs etc., and run in and out of shops demanding hot food with sauce.
It’ll also help regulate the singing as when the cheer leader shouts, “What do we want?” the cadence wont be ruined by people replying “more toilets!”
So off to the back with you, where you can throw half eaten chips at our BritNats chums and call out merrily, “You’ll have had your tea?” or some other vile calumny.
PS A TIP: You’re in the capital, it’s not the done thing to ask for vinegar, you’ll just show yourself up. So, no vinegar on the kebab okay?
PPS make sure you’ve finished your chips before you meet me, I don’t want to get pelters from you for this saucy piece.
“I wonder what month April Fool’s Day falls on so I can send Severin a “Happy Birthday” card?
Anyone know?”
I want to say April?
but after asking the audience,
and phoning a friend,
and going fifty fifty
I’ll go for?
NOVEMBER?
I’ve just been told there’s kittens on the WoS FB site!!!!!
A riot of Pussies?
“Keep on digging Severin not far to go now till you reach the bottom of the barrel!”
REALLY?
Do I take the train to Waverley, ETA 11.18 or the YesClydesdale bus which shall arrive ? and leave early evening?
My last train out is 23.21.
Think I should take the train and get to Albanach in time. Hip flasks are possible as always. Can sign three guests into Scottish Malt Whisky Society rooms if required. Any other WoS people members of the SMWS ?
I can be recognised by a 90 degree shift of my atavar. Shall wear ancient Kerr kilt, or is it Hunting?
For Morag I posted earlier in Quarantine…
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Hail Alba
Welcome Nan,the more the merrier.
I think there must be many people like yourself who are ‘taking the plunge’ and the more info we can get out there the better,
Apparently Anas superciliosa is on the ICUN Red List of Endangered Species. Bummer.
link to iucnredlist.org
So just in case you might of missed him, here’s Anas superciliosa superciliosa (a.k.a. dad)
link to terranature.org
I’m not a member of the SMWA Robert, but i’ll have a wee flask of medicine with me. 🙂
I’ve got the same choice as you. Booked on the Dundee bus with my son, but I may get the train home if I develop a thirst.
“On the issue itself – if Novak Djokovic suddenly decides he’s a woman and wishes to live as such, does he get to play in the Ladies’ Singles at Wimbledon? Genuine question.”
So anyway,
really?
Djokovic’s a woman?
jeesh whoda thunk it
he?she? kept that quiet
does Murray know?
just increased his chances at Wimbledon eh?
bugger says
“A riot of Pussies?”
I would jail the lot of em 😉
Hi there Nan good for you writing your first post and, a brilliant idea to put messages on letters and parcels! 🙂
I’ve just read the original Guardian article. The comment count is listed at 93, but there are only 31 comments. Tee hee.
Torrance is seriously irritating me. As Associate Director of ‘Five Million Questions – Understanding Scotland’s Referendum’ he should be spotlessly neutral. He’s not. I’m going to complain. Will let you know.
100,000 -using the Seville methodology
@ juteman
The 31 comments on the site make the wee laddie journalist look very silly indeed.
I’ve just read the original Guardian article. The comment count is listed at 93, but there are only 31 comments. Tee hee.
Something wrong with your browser. The comments are still there, apart from the few deleted ones which are still placemarked.
By “placemarked”, are you referring to the announcement of a post’s removal? This doesn’t always happen with Severin’s articlles. Sometimes posts just disappear, leaving one to ponder on upping one’s medication.
That’s true, but there are actually over 100 comments there, although some of them have the “comment removed” text.
Go count them.
Rev Stu: “I’ll certainly just tell them to go fuck a pig.”
Just make sure it’s a pig wearing lipstick (that’s a metaphor for the BT description of the Union btw).
Rev Stu: “I have nothing but contempt for idiots and see no great merit in hiding it.”
Never engage an idiot – they only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
YES Scotland.
Personally I think it is an interesting article that explains the headline in the body of the text. Headlines are designed to grab your attention after all. It does highlight a busy agenda for the SNP over the next few months and quite a pivotal moment in the campaigns.
Less and less of the population read newspapers any more. This is why.
Go count them.
No thanks, I’ll take your word for it. 🙂
Very strange re the comments. I’m not counting them again!
Well so far my comment has not yet shown up. I suppose that’s better than what I expected which was to be accused of being an apologist or a transphobic. If that had happened I would have had to apologise to my transgender friend for hating them.
To the proposed Albanach crew:
What’s the matter with saving the best till last…?