Wings Over Scotland

It’s comical the way folk like McTernan simply cannot entertain the idea that they might not be utterly flawless. People who cannot admit to mistakes are of absolutely no use to making decisions – in fact, they’re detrimental to the decision-making process. They don’t live in the real world, and if you can’t admit you made a mistake, you can’t take action to avoid repeating it.
 
But then, what else do we expect from a Scottish Labour apparatchik?

(Incidentally, it’s always “Douglas” to my mum.)

“Obsession” – stock answer from someone that’s just made an arse of themselves.

From…
link to en.wikipedia.org;
 
“In 2007 McTernan was seconded to the Scottish Labour Party to run its campaign for the May Scottish Parliament general election. The Scottish Labour Party lost power.”
 
…Haha!

This is called “Year zero-ing” – it doesn’t matter what I said or did before, because that was before “year zero”, when I wiped the slate clean, and we started everything a-fresh.

*When* “year zero” was, is up to the defendant, not the accuser.

He’s a Statist.
He doesn’t seem to understand the concept that the law is fluid, and that people will make the law do what they see as right.  (And probably just ignore it when they can’t)
Which, incidentally, if it was true, would remove one of the biggest reasons for politicians to exist…

Typical Labour type, just shouts over the top of another speaker (Sarwar had lessons from him I guess).
 
“Incidentally, it’s always “Douglas” to my mum.”
I thought that was just when you were in trouble!

The first time I clapped eyes on McTernan was when he gave the interview referred to above when he said that there would be”no referendum”. He seemed to disappear from the scene for a long time soon after that. I then heard him being interviewed on the radio a couple of months ago about the prospects of the Australian Labour Party in their general election. Apparently they were daft enough to employ him as a spin doctor after he fled these shores. There he was, spouting forth about how close the result would be. The Australian Labour Party got absolutely hammered. I personally hope that the No campaign give him a job because – as demonstrated in the clip of that interview – he is not very good at his job. If you add that to the fact (as also demonstrated above) that he is clearly having problems with his memory, then he does not have a lot going for him.

 “… obsession with my back catalogue.”
 
Up to this point, the exchange is the standard ‘I said … you said‘ and ‘… you know I meant …’
 
But if we cannot look at, or comment on, a politician’s back catalogue, how can we ever hold them to account?

The trouble with you non-political types is that you stick to this out-dated idea that ‘said’ means ‘what I said’, rather than ‘what would have been said if I’d been correct, with the benefit of hindsight, a full impact analysis and focus group input to determine where the energy was in the debate’.

Your complete lack of understanding is betrayed by your over-reliance on discredited ‘evidence’, which has long been replaced by more modern schools of thought, such as ‘wishful thinking’ and ‘ignoring the man behind the curtain’.

Enjoy your stone-age ‘rational debate’. Meanwhile, ‘reality innovators’ and ‘narrative entrepreneurs’ like McTernan and Lamont will be at the bleeding-edge of modern political leadership, leading politics into a bright new future*
 
*’Bright’ may mean ‘dark’, dependent on future lighting conditions.

Is there a word for getting badly reamed on twitter?

The constitution is a reserved matter… except when it isn’t. 
 
Taking the letter of the law as opposed to the principles of justice as your starting point leaves you at a disadvantage in an argument over what is right or wrong. Now I think about it, much of ‘Project Fear’ is based on arguments following that flawed precept.
 
At least he did not say “what I have been saying is…”. Perhaps Twitter’s character limit is to thank for that 🙂

Very O/T – but this is unbelievable..
 
link to bbc.co.uk.
 
‘Two students who dressed as the Twin Towers in a fancy dress competition have been condemned by university and students’ union bosses.
University of Chester students Amber Langford and Annie Collinge, both 19, won the Halloween competition at a nightclub in Chester.
Their outfits depicted flames and explosions during the 11 September 2001 attack on the World Trade Center.’

You gotta see the picture – it’s bad enough going dressed as the buildings, but going dressed with them being destroyed by flames is frankly bizarre.

FFS – it’s like trying to nail jelly to a wall. McTernan, You damn well know you said it The evidence has nailed you. Grow a backbone and just admit you were wrong. This continual denial just makes you look like a bare-faced liar.
Spin doctor. Ah, I see….

It was a manifesto pledge of the SNP to hold a consultative referendum. The fact that a YES result would have placed Westminster in the position of having to accept it or be seen to be ignoring the self determination of one of the countries making up the UK notwithstanding. Legal precedent shows that Parliamentary Sovereignty does not exist as a concept in Scotlands legal system. The granting of the right to hold a binding referendum was a face saving gesture on Westminsters part. What it means is that for this referendum, at least, Holyrood now has the right to proceed and have the result binding on Westminster.

On the other hand this might simply be a tipping of the hand to the ludicrous Plan B I’ve seen suggested elsewhere that should the vote be Yes but in 2015 Labour are elected then somehow independence might be aborted isn’t the pipe dream it seemed but rather a reality. After all if we’ve already got a denial of the passing of constitutional powers to Holyrood then that and the idea of one parliament being unable to bind the hands of the next a Labour administration needing scots seats to remain in power might resort to desperation.

Does this McTernan chappie live in Scotland ? Will he have a vote in the referendum ?

I see he employs the tactics I like to refer to as the Hothersall Maneuver. You deny you said anything of the Kind. You assert that you really meant something else. You assert that the something else was totally different from the previous something else. You finally make a flippant and absurd asides when you can no longer defend any position you may or maynot have been holding. – rinse and repeat until the questioner gives up in exasperation. Declare Victory.

I see Hammond was more concerned with putting the boot into Labour rather than pander to their Better Together rannygazoo. Davidson et al got short shrift. Intrigued by the suggestion of turning Portsmouth ship yard into a commercial port. If that were to happen then it would be hard to play the recall card for the Type 26s. Of course they could just ask Korea to build them.

“I’ve just cut your arm off”
“it’s only a flesh wound”

There were a number of similar assertions on the Guardian over the last 18 months.
 
There would be no referendum,
There would be no Holyrood control over the question
There would be no 16/17 franchise
The electoral commission would not work to Holyrood.
 
The only call made that was correct was that there would be no Devo Max question. That is a fair shout because they have no intention of offering anything so including the question would have been suicide.  

J McTernan  Labour party Brit Nat idiot – wouldn’t take any lessons from that clown.
 
Not sure he remembers what, never mind where Scotland is until election night !

O/T but not entirely.
Lets look at the Norwegian way forward for shipbuilding.
Norwegian Shipyards direct their business activities towards four main markets: offshore vessels, advanced fishing vessels, passenger/car ferries and specialised coastal vessels.
All together there are 75 yards which are focusing on new building and ships repair. There are approx. 25 pure new building yards, a number which has been almost stable the last decade. One shipyard, however, is operating very well both in new building and ships repair, even though there are two different ways to operate as to disciplines.
 
During the last 10 years three groups of shipyards have been established: STX OSV (Aker Yards), Bergen Group and HavYard Group. The number of operating shipyards within these groups remains the same as before. The big scale down of yards in Norway was in the 1975 and 1990.
Even if we consider some of our shipyards as large, they are categorised as medium or small shipyards compared to European standards.
 
The high wage levels in Norwegian industry force the ship yards to compete on the construction and delivery of advanced vessels for offshore or specialised trades.
The global demand for new ships has gained after the financial crisis in 2008 which put the contracting on halt. Norwegian shipyards have improved on new orders, and have an order book in the beginning of 2013 which has remained nearly the same over the last 2 – 3 years. A horizon of 1½ – 2 years is normal.
 
Norwegian yards build specialist ships with a high level of expertise. The hulls are built in low cost countries, often in shipyards where the Norwegian yards have interests. Despite the fact that the official subsidy is taken away, the hulls are more complete than ever when arriving at the Norwegian yard. This means that the workforce often has a high level of competence. Shipbuilding is vital to many local communities along the Norwegian coast and in many instances, the shipyards are cornerstone companies.
 
Ships completed in Norway in 2011 / 12
 
link to shipbuildingnorway.com

@Linda, makes you wonder why the blinking flip we aren’t doing the same sort of thing.

@BillyBigbaws
Yup, that was indeed a Rob Ford reference!

McTernan’s real problem has been that he wasn’t ‘clear’. Instead of ‘What I actually said…’ or ‘blah blah blah and I was right’ and ‘you can quote…’ He should have prefixed his statements with ‘let me be clear about this…’ or ‘I’m going to be clear about this because…’
 
It works for Lamont and Sarwar. Obviously McTernan has been out of the country for too long.
 
(Was he not turfed out of Oz because his Visa wasn’t in order?)

pa_broon74
That’s correct he was an advisor in the election but backed the wrong kangaroo in a two horse race, consequently no job.   
It was a case of no job back to blighty (sorry) UK.

Mocha Choca, Hows aboot BACK CATALOUGE ( Nae VASALEEN ) sos Rainbow All could nt rescist 

Box of Chocs tae DouGs mum, fur gitting the media back on track 

Ranald Alexander Mc Donald, Naws the answer tae your question ma Abbicuss is broke Fekin beads awe ower the flair,  Whit colours WAN

Interview with Angus Robertson  / Ian Davidson  on commons green Davidsons puffed oot  he must hiv run across the road ( he feirt he would lose his appearance fee
 

It seems Mr McTernan, can’t or more to the point won’t admit, his remark.
 
Tisk tisk tisk, how very childish of Mr McTernan.

Regarding, the BAE saga, and the UK governments stance, did I hear correct on Politics Scotland today.
 
That three ships are to be built at Govan/Scotstoun, not because it was the best yard, but, because, written into BAE’s contracts with the MoD, if the Scottish yards and possibly, Portsmouth yard as well, were mothballed, until further notice, the UK Government would have to keep on paying, the shipyard staff.
 
If indeed this was the case, the UK Government, will be feeling pretty smug with themselves thinking they’ve killed two birds with the one stone, by prefering Govan and Scotstoun to Portsmouth, and bringing more orders north of the border, thus, showing the Scottish people, that they’re wanted, by the UK and they should vote no, in the referendum.
 
I find this deceitful, and above all I have huge sympathy for the workforce at Portsmouth, not to mention, many others who will lose their jobs, possibly due to the massive overspend on the aircraft carriers, attributed to an incompetent Westminster Government.

George Kerevan on politics Scotland
Suggesting that a YES or NO vote is irrelevant in this context as the Portsmouth Yard cant build ships and that the Clyde will get the orders in any event.  In other words the UK government have burnt their bridges already.
 
He may be correct but I would not put my mortgage on it even though it is a very small one.
 
Patrick Harvie is possibly the only one that sees the thing in the round by extolling the need to diversify into other types of ships and engineering as the way forward.

“Seeing no ships,” is an extremely apt headline Rev. According to  David Cameron today in the Commons  “If Scotland was Independent, they wouldn’t have any ships at all,” was the latest horror story.

Shit, the tankers I watch from my window going up and down the Forth , exporting all that oil would disappear.

I suppose  the victory cruise me and the wife were planning after the referendum will have to be shelved as well. Bummer.

Joking aside, another bad day for the shipyards. Hopefully, when Independence is achieved, shipbuilding along with other lost trades which we were renowned for, can be revived, to create meaningful employment to our young, the lifeblood of our country.

Norway build 100 ships in 2012

@papadocx – I ken the feeling buddy – same issues – change is coming – but what the hell keeps these normally sensible people giving their X to Labour torags?

mr mcternan civil opinion and Scottish opinion says you could very well be misinformed, do you think this may be the excuse you need

I’m pretty sure Michael McKeown is a paid stooge at the Herald or its a persona they use when they want website hits on comments pages. No one person can be so continually obtuse.
 
The OBE character is like a robot. Not sure why people engage him at all.

Watching the film In The Loop last night, I was pondering whether the foul-mouthed Scottish spin doctor character Jamie MacDonald was conceivably based, ever so slightly, on a certain spin doctor whose grasp of memory and reality could best be described as somewhat challenged.

Of course, that could be as fanciful as imagining that the equally foul-mouthed propagandist character Malcolm Tucker draws substantially on a notorious labour apparatchik and truth-masseur.

No, I’m probably being delusional. Truth is never stranger than fiction. I’m very clear about this…. and you can quote me on that – but I reserve the right to contradict myself at any time in the future. I also reserve the right to disagree with (but not to offer apology or explanation for) the opinions which I may happen to express, now and for all time. Amen.

It is distressing and really dispiriting to observe the antics and listen to the self-serving BS of so many renegade Scots. Are they all injected with a virulent strain of botchulism when they sign on for their gravy train and receive their pieces of silver?