Reaching a consensus
Posted on
July 28, 2014 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
In case you somehow carelessly missed it, here’s the nine-minute-or-so segment from last night’s “The Westminster Hour” on Radio 4, in which dear old Alan Cochrane of the Telegraph and I discussed the tone and tenor of the independence debate.
The fascinating thing was how Cochrane started off essentially claiming that the entire thing was an intolerable horror, but but by the end was agreeing that it was actually surprisingly mild and civilised as these things go, and needed to continue in exactly the same manner it was now. Funny old cove.
He’s not a journalist he’s an opinionist. Because of that no diligence is necessary on his part. No requirement to develop a fact based argument. The best that can be said is that he isn’t copying someone else. While he questioned whether the Rev believed his colossal readership, he fails to acknowledge that he blindly follows the information that he is fed.
How many readers DOES Cochers have?
Aaah…so it’s all about CyberNats online.
I must’ve missed the Telegraph comments recently.
At least the interviewer tried to balance it out – although the BT mob comments tend to come from those MPs/MSPs involved in their ‘No Campaign’.
Typical of a hard boiled unionist, Cochrane has heard of this abuse, claims not to have read it, but also claims to somehow ~know~ which side might be worse. It’s well seen that you don’t have to do any actual journalism to write for the Torygraph.
He was demonstrating abuse as he spoke by continually referring to YES voters as “NATS”. How ignorant and disrespectful. I’ve never been a member of any party although, until New Labour, I always voted Labour (yes I know).
Thought Stu sounded much more objective and coherent by comparison.
@Geoff Huijer
those MPs/MSPs involved in their ‘No Campaign’.
Aren’t those MPs/MSPs the ‘No Campaign’? There’s a few Cooncilors forbye but where are the boots on the streets? Why do they have to get their literature distributed by kids for pocket money? What happened to Slab’s army of activists?
All the information given to Cochrane by his friends are true, but all the information given to Rev by Wingers are questionable!?
Stu has now become the person to go to for Yes campaign analysis.
How things have changed. Modern media eclipses the MSM.
Alan Cochrane is most certainly at the zany end of the No campaign. I can’t imagine he would see a No vote followed by Miliband as PM as a win though. He would be joining us in a drowning our sorrows drink.
I am sure he described his journalistic style as “abuse” on the Rory Bremner special on the referendum.
That was good.
Cochrane sounded just like he always does in print – arrrogant, patronising and downright snide.
Nice when some “confirmation bias” works mmmm? 😀
Oh my god can all you 200,000 or so readers just stop blooming lying to poor Stuart. I liked it when you heard him laugh at the absurdity of Cochrane saying that. You are a lot calmer now in interviews Stuart, much more relaxed and experienced. I hope you continue to be asked for comment and that wings and yourself progress beyond the referendum.
I’m curious. Where are Cochrane’s Texas students and professor hiding these days? 😉
These students have witnessed so little public debate, REALLY? 😉
Is Alan Cochrane actually certain he spoke to them face to face cause from where I’m sitting you can’t move for public debates! Is this Mr Cochrane doing his usual *ahem* stretching the TRUTH to beyond credibility here? 😛
This man, Cochrane not Stu, is a complete incompetent Muppet. All he sees is his own little patch of “Little Engerland.” He will do, write or say anything to preserve his patch of “Little Engerland.” What a shame cause an independent Scotland has so much MORE to offer than his “Little Engerland.” 😀
So for Cochrane, ‘despite’ being in Bath somehow becomes an impediment to honest journalism on the referendum debate, yet he is more than willing to take on board the views of students from Texas?
Quentin Quale says:
So for Cochrane, ‘despite’ being in Bath somehow becomes an impediment to honest journalism on the referendum debate, yet he is more than willing to take on board the views of students from Texas?
Makes you wonder what he, Cochrane, thinks of all the s***e, sorry comment, emanating from London in the *ahem* newspapers of his *cough* fellow journalists and their *wretch* views on the independence debate, doesn’t it? 😉
Does Alan Cochrane walk around with his fingers in his ears and eyes closed? He seems very content with his Westminster-led utopia. I guess Alan really does think that this is as good as it gets.
Imagine a world where everyone thought like Alan – would we have ventured out of the sea as a species?
I think if we all thought like Cochrane Murray we’d have got no further than the nearest cave! 😀
Compared to Cochrane the Rev was calm and controlled. That’s the way to do it. The No campaign, including Darling’s recent outbursts, is getting more and more hysterical.
Cochrane spent a good 20 years of his career in London, so he is hardly in a position to judge those of us who have spent time working down south.
Stu you did very well not to take the bait on all the ‘you live in Bath’ and other jibes! Cochrane came across as a bit of a bullying know-nothing and the fact that he seemed to change his opinion 180 degrees during the course of the interview does emphasise who had the more authority in that little debate.
Well done.
Insignificant now is he, bitter and twisted is he. Individuals like cockran never questioned or scrutinised for decades, now exposed by the rev and others. They like it not a jot, loss of power and credibility and cockran knows it. His rantings betray his bitterness.
Thought Stu sounded much more objective and coherent by comparison.
You mean sober, right!
Having lived in Texas for five years, one thing I have long since picked up on, is the way the US republican smear campaing tactics have been adopted by the better together mob. Anyone remember the Swift Boat Veterans For Truth organisation? Go google it – and think votes no borders and the rest of these unanswerable hit pieces, that come into existance, deploy their lies, then disappear back into the dirt, their job done.
Excellent interview Reverend. with fabulous hypocritical liars at the BBC/Torygraph as usual. BBC dude’s another very nasty character though. They’re praying for actual trouble in Scotland.
Cochrane, Naughty, Marr et al have gone native. Any nous they may have had concerning grass-roots politics in Scotland has evaporated years ago. They are used by the MSM only because they were born in Scotland. Most non-Scots journalists living in England will admit to ignorance when it comes to Scottish politics so they hire the likes of Cochrane to add [in vain] some kind of perceived genuine Scottish dimension. Yet these London-based Scots can only do what they think is required of them: perpetuate the misinformation emanating from London in the first place.
Hilarious.
Cochrane said in an interview once on TV that he loved bashing Cybernats, that is a joke in itself, he would never enter an even arena!
Stu did well in the interview, calm and reasoned, good stuff.
Although, when asked if your followers here tell him lies, I would have liked one of the wild BT assertions shoved down his throat. Easy for me of course, I was not there, but that would have been good.
Eddie Cochrane was a rocker..Oor Alan is just off his.
Well done Stu for such a good interview, and remaining calm under pressure. Thanks from a coffin-dodging, disabled cybernat lol 😎
Dan Huil says:
If you think Darling is hysterical now, just give him another week!
He said he would buy you a drink
let him choose
link to most-expensive.com
Regarding the point that no-one’s yet been hospitalised, I think this gentleman needed to spend a bit of time in A & E
link to wingsoverscotland.com
This is the first time I have actually consciously heard Mr. Cochrane, and had assumed he was based in London so did not have a vote. Bummer.
He does come across as something of a deluded old fart. Probably smells of jobbies. 😉
I got the impression he hadn’t the faintest notion of what is actually going right now in Scotland! All he spouted was a mix of hearsay and personal prejudice. It’s probably been decades since he got out and did any real journalism.
I tell you something, I don’t know what he costs the Telegraph, but whatever it is, they are being ripped off.
Well Done Stu another one up for the yes side! and oh dear they just dont get any better at bt (sorry the telegraph) do they?. Are you reading this Cochrane (of course you are )
You did very well to treat these two old duffers with civility and respect. Shame they weren’t able to reciprocate.
In my experience, there’s usually a reason for such loutish behaviour.
I immediately thought of this when I heard Cochhrane’s tones.
link to youtube.com
@ Cameron.
Imagine a cross between a Saville Row suit, a sack of tatties and a psychopathic teddy bear with a drink problem.
3 words
Ar$e
HandedTo &
Plate
Well dun son
Conan_the_Librarian
And he is thought to be an acceptable source of commendatory? No wonder Britain is probably the most reactionary it has ever been, IMO.
Well handled Stuart. They are getting edgy. You can hear it all the time now. Trying to convince themselves that a ‘No’ is in the bag. When’s the wee Blue Book due, Rev?
Nice dig at the end from Mr D’arsey.
Well played Rev, cool head wins.
Best not drink-interview Cockers, you got off lightly.
Conan
Blair MacDougall, the love child of Alan Cochrane and errrr, shit there are so many possible egg donors on the Slab side.
To be mischievous, I am seeing Johann Lamont.
I need to lie down in a darkened room, alone.
Cochrane had 20 years in the Street of Shame!
No wonder his breath corrodes my computer speakers.
@ John says:
We are away ahead of their tactics and have adapted.
We are the Cyberborg
Resistance is futile.
Sorry to go off topic although the following does involve journalists as witnesses to murder.
Israel have murdered a group of children celebrating Eid
Sickening. Israel are committing war criminals daily.
Cameron & Obama will not condemn Israel
link to twitter.com
I got the very strong impression that he was by the end of the interview ‘keeping on side’ with Stu. He even ends with “well that’s somethin’ to look forward to…that’s one positive out of the yes vote…an am sure…” and Stu rounds of his next sentence with “Am sure we’ll have lots of fun Alan”. On the back of asking Stu if he would be coming back to Scotland after the vote if it’s a Yes.
And yes certainly agree that he was on side with Stu’s point of view by the middle of the interview when referring to the Texas students’ experiences he goes on “I think we should keep it in proportion, ah think it is nasty for a country that is not used to this but (it) in terms of world wide visciousness, ah don’t think it’s all that bad, an ah do hope that we don’t tone down the argument, the argument needs to be kept at the same level it’s at and as far as the nats are concerned in terms of their accusations it’s negative, the more negative the better as far as I’m concerned cause we’ve got to nail all the nats myths and lies that we get a continuum of, especially on the economy. Stu quite rightly moves past the slur and points out that “we’ve reached some sort of agreement here which is this is just a normal politcal debate”
By essentially admitting that he wants it negative he is revealing their mindset and tactics whilst at the same time conceding it’s not actually that negative.
I think it’s pretty clear they and by this I mean btnt of which he represents in the context of the interview, have nothing else to bring to the debate but to continue with their negative smearing, sneering, slurring, lying rhetoric and projection on to Yes. The reality is that’s it’s all they’ve got. A negative campaign.
We most certainly will win. I think he’s keeping on side in that interview to keep his options open. Pint Stu?
On a lighter note, I suspect that Cochrane, following the YES vote will just continue to file the same copy to the Telegraph, until the cheques stop.
What a facetious wanker Cochrane is.
If Margaret Curran is not the illegitimate child of Nosferatu then my name aint Findlay Farquharson.
@Bugger (the Panda) says:
I suspect that Cochrane, following the YES vote will just continue to file the same copy to the Telegraph, until the cheques stop.
As ‘Foreign’ Correspondent ….
@ Cameron B
He does come across as something of a deluded old fart. Probably smells of jobbies. 😉
Oi, that ma Mither’s word!
🙂
O/t Love bomb alert.
The Firm have sent the Young Team up to schmooze the Jocks.
Harry to Wills. “Fuck knows how grannie manages this fake shit all the time. Leaves me knackered !”
Wills. “Different genes”
BYT ya bass
Calgacus McAndrews
Am I right in thinking that you are related to Scottish Skier’s Mother?
O/T
This games thingy: aren’t England 10x the numbers of Scots? Shouldn’t they be on 120 Golds and 310 medals in total or is it that 1 Scot is the equal of 5 Englishmen?
When he asked if you were coming back to Scotland after a Yes you should’ve said you’d wave to him as you passed him on the way down. 🙂 Him and the rest of the busload of “we cannaes” whose removal I’ll be subsidising.
Ach !I wish I hadn’t bothered .He sounds like a slurring drunk and has written the most abusive drivel about the FM and his depute.
I had wished that Mr Salmond had sued the arse off the insulting bugger but I suppose there is still time.
Interestingly the last time I heard this coward in a radio debate he shot the craw when challenged and Nicky Campbell was poe faced with the challenger. A ludicrous man who is paid for writing abusive drivel, an expert on nothing and nobody .
The pair, he and his wife , must have great conversations round the breakfast table as they attempt to put together yet another ” I hate Alex Salmond “article.
Who do these buffoons think they are?
Why do they think they are above criticism?
Why do they think they are so superior – to anyone?
I am deeply sorry I listened to some of the recording , it has enraged me yet again.
[…] « Reaching a consensus […]
@Bugger (the Panda) says:
Calgacus McAndrews
Am I right in thinking that you are related to Scottish Skier’s Mother?
It’s definitely a case of “that was no Lady …”
🙂
Nice one Stew,
I do get the impression that our Cockers is but a bully with his pen (keypad (being modern)), I wonder if his wife is the same , she occasionally writes in the Dundee Courier, and surprise surprise , she mirrors Cockers outlook on the referendum , and Scotland’s subservience to Westminster .
Calgacus
Can we talk on t’interweb bu e-mail.
I would like to talk to S Kier re some oil stuff, although it is way outside my normal area of expertise, which is alcohol.
innerbearsden@gmail.com
This a cut-out e-mail address which is burnable.
Bugger (the Panda)
I was only borrowing it and hoped you wouldn’t mind. 😉
I am doing my best to be one of these nasty ‘cybernats’ that AC has “heard of”. Just following a theme I think has claimed it’s own space in the ‘low-brow’ indyref knockabout that is WOS. 🙂
Albaman
Bullies with word processors?
Glad to help.
re Cocker’s other half, she has gone Defcon 9 recently.
Wonder is they drink in the same bars?
Yes you should have asked him if he was leaving if Scotland votes Yes, like one of the Sunday Times 700 thousand great exodus from Scotland on the 19th Sept. Cockers could be the next Moses, leading his people to the promised land of rUK, met at Hadrians wall by Rory the Tory, having just finished his erection for Scotland too. Where 70000000 No voters will go in England is anyone’s guess.
CameronB Brodie says:
You are welcome.
My mither told me it was OK, via a Ouija board.
She also said the somebody called Blair MacDougall had kindly filled in her postal vote.
🙂
Just been told Moses only led 600 thousand people out of Egypt, so that’s not such a good omen for Cockers. He’s got a greasy old beard though, give him a staff, Jesus boots etc
Lunchtime O’Booze detects a lull in the nat internet abuse which is probably caused by the Commonwealth Games, or something. Why no lull caused by the recent 3 weeks of the FIFA World Cup given that Scotland is 3rd/4th most football obsessed nation on earth he doesn’t say.
O’Booze is especially placed to pass opinions in public because he doesn’t live in Bath and 99% of his journalist mates tell him what to think.
@ heedtracker says:
Open toed sandals, brown bread and lentil soup?
If you asked Scottish political journalists?
Wait whut?
I nearly choked. 😀
And when the interviewer used the Alex Salmond compared to the dictator du jour example… 😀 LOL After some of Cochers past comparisons.
Brilliant.
Nice one Rev.
joe kane
You been mixing with the enemy in the Cheddar Cheese?
L o’B, gives it away.
@ Bugger
“although it is way outside my normal area of expertise, which is alcohol.”
You and me both…
Conan
🙂
Told you to get an NUJ card Rev it’s a closed shop and Alan wants to be the shop steward. All the journos will be out on strike over demarcation. Aye they were the days I remember them well.
Keep up the good work.
O/t. Elites protecting their own again. Tory seats seem safe though.
“Of course there is local opposition in some places,” Mr Hancock told the BBC.
“But broadly there is also public support for the argument that we need energy security.”
You will, after Yes. Can’t rely on foreigners after all, can they !
link to bbc.co.uk
I have just read a copy of newspaper being distributed by Labour. Virtually every feature in it is a demonstrable lie. I counted 12, though some of them are the same lie repeated in a slightly different context.
It is actually astounding in its mendacity.We really should produce exactly the same newspaper with all the lies indicated and corrected. We know the MSM will be entirely silent no matter what Better Together say so surely it is time to take up cudgels and call them liars.
This paper is enough to sink Better Together if that is done.
Compared to the poll tax riots,miners strikes and Northern Ireland our referendum has been exemplary in it’s conduct.
BBBC playing it as energy supply worries from “Putins Russia”
According to their own figures, that will amount to ‘us’ losing the grand total of SFA. ‘We’ don’t import any Russian gas.
Unless it’s the 0.4% down as “other”
Sold to the sheep as saving us from the Bad Man.
How did that guy get so far in journalism I wouldn’t send him to cover a story of a cat stuck up a tree and why does it matter a farting fuck where Stuart is based?
Listening to my fellow Dundonian, I think he has come to the end of his personality.
SquareHaggis says:
3 words
Ar$e
HandedTo &
Plate
……….
Is that not 4 words ?
Cool, calm and I don’t mean Cochran.
Stu, was it edited?
Bugger (the Panda) says:
28 July, 2014 at 4:52 pm
@ John says:
We are away ahead of their tactics and have adapted.
We are the Cyberborg
As long as you didn’t mean the digital wing of the Swedish Liberation Front, the CyberBork Bork Bork!
link to youtube.com
8=)
Bjork, on the other hand is??
Marcia
Very cutting, cutting but fair.
Is there a Dug and Cat Home in Dundee?
Abba a clue.
Final note on fracking punter’s.
Looking at the Supply Chart, it seems that we will be holding around Four to FIVE times our current (2012)requirement.
“Neighbours, everybody needs good neighbours…”
Has Kylie come out for YES yet ? :-0
Stu
You did a good job on Cochrane, remaining calm, cool and collected in face of his provocation. He is a blustering fool whose main task on the Telegraph is to write lies about Scotland and the SNP in order to stir up BTL comments from Unionist nut cases.
For some of you who wondered, The Telegraph circulation in Scotland is 17500 per day including many giveaways. So you can easily discern that Cochrane has few readers in Scotland and I doubt if he has any among the working class voters in the schemes. He is irrelevant in the Indy debate.
So Stu lives in Bath… so what? Flipper officially lives in London , unless he’s lying.
BTP
Björk is bjönkers.
Alan Cochrane, heaven above what can you say about the man, sounds just like you imagine if you are unfortunate enough to read his ramblings. Seems oor Alan is mair oot o’ touch than Stuart from Bath. Time Alan was reading something other than the drivel emanating from the MSM, a wee scan at Wings might help you out Alan. Could not like the woman he married either, two nut cases in one family, hope there are no children.
Have to say Stuart the humour comes over in your voice, you sound calm and collected in the face of absolute stupidity. Did not care for Mark Darcy either.
I notice Alan Cockrain has a beard – is this part of the BBC impartiality policy?
simply brilliant, well played that man, faultless
Cochrane lives in the Inverleith area of Edinburgh, and between him and his wife’s salary they can afford the big hoose they live in. No worries about food banks, or austerity in general. He only writes for a small number of people in Scotland in a similarly affluent position and tries to stir up “anti-Englishism” where none exists.
I’ve mentioned before that he and toodleloothenoo Brian Taylor are great mates. Would love to overhear them chatting and discussing how best to smear the Yes campaign.
@geeo
4 little words
I
Can’t
Count
@X_Sticks
Remember what you told me about (theories).
Perhaps Alan Cochrane should read WoS to remind himself about journalists who check facts.
I don’t know why but I have a growing sense of doom!?
Excellant and well controlled discussion/debate Mr Campbell. I salute your debating skills and journalism. A true professional compared with Cochrane.
Cochrane claims to be a journalist who has never used social media or seen WoS. Either he’s lying (highly likely) or hes not (highly unlikely) and ahis employees should sack him as he’s quite clearly incompetent (my preferred option).
Independent research by Glasgow University has shown that 60% of abuse on-line has come from the No campaign. Another great interview Rev, being attacked from 2 fronts and still getting the other side to agree.
@square haggis.
In my defence i ran out of fingers…!
Well done Rev, you were cool as a cucumber and hit the nail/bettertogether on the head about yes voters being disillusioned after a no. It would be a sad sad day for Scotland and democracy if that happens.
Keep up the great work! #VoteYes!
I’d be rather insulted he didn’t do a single bit of research on you stu or on WoS.
franariod. It was Strathclyde University.
When you listen to guys like Cochrane you just that know he belongs to the past. He has been, like many others, the facilitator of cringe, happy to lick the boots of the ‘officer class’, unperturbed by the obvious disparity in health, wealth and living standards that exist between Scotland and the South-East.
Post-Independence, books will be written celebrating the fact, and no doubt such books will highlight the contributions made by patriots such as Mr Cochrane
Well played Rev, been tough going with loaded questions intended to undermine the campaign. You were honest and concise although Ailing Cockring (my dyslexia) did keep reiterating the straw man about JK Rowling yet we know the most offensive tweet came from a guy in Blackpool who was unconnected with the campaign.The Weirs, despite your efforts get dismissed and that highlights the hypocrisy. The usual family divided stuff straight out of a crap Jeffrey Archer novel and then they were reduced to attacking where you live. Is this their argument well yes it is, I don’t believe they have a coherent reason as they have never been asked to contemplate a valid reason. That is the difference the pro-indy campaign can point to numerous positivesto state a claim but they have sound bytes that are vacuous. It is just pushing through the wall of intransigence to embrace change.
It is very significant that at the press conference on the release of the white paper, wee Cockie had to be cajoled by Alex Salmond to ask a question, he was as quite and meek as the church mouse, none of his cutting through the baloney boasting was evident, he visibly shrunk in front of Alex. Wee Cockie like all of his ilk is a coward and a verbal bully safe behind his lap top. When he does speak he sounds half pished like Simon Pia, and the same arsegraqvy dribbles from his twisted mouth.
On the question of Bath, and the fact that the Rev lives there. WTF has that got to do with anything? By that yardstick, those that pontificate from the bowels of Westminster on Scottish affairs needs to shut the fuck up then. Well they soon will in any case. Westminster is only able to do so because of threats and blackmail deployed against Scotland as England sought to subjugate us like they tried with Ireland and Wales. The pigeons have now come homw to roost, England and their French conquerers are getting their comeuppance and not before time.
I see there was the usual condescending intro and conclusion from the presenter. Alan Cochrane also did a great job of distracting from the actual debate with pithy comments.
Let’s face it, Cochrane is a Tory, so obviously has no interest in the problem of poverty in Scotland or anywhere else for that matter. As to his ramblings, he dug his own grave. Admitting he knows nothing about social media discourse but spouting unfounded opinion on it. Saying he “believes” that arguments over the referendum are splitting people, but with no evidence. Battering on about Yes campaign lies but quoting none. Empty keech, but he and his ilk pimping Project Fear care not a jot. Ironically, they are basing their campaign of lies, exaggeration and distortion on just the type of US political campaign that Cochrane referred to.
That is why this site is so important for refutation of the No message. Unfortunately we spend so much time on that, it is hard to promote the positive message for Yes.
Need to keep trying though. Onwards and upwards…
@Bookiefromhell
All those ancient whiskies likely taste predominantly of wood. Fine if you like that sort of thing but personally I don’t like it.
Just like with wine, modern production and maturation and bottling techniques mean the harshness and off notes maturation used to be necessary to mellow are much reduced. With some wine it might be good to lay it down for a few years, but not as many as in the past and fewer wines are appropriate. It’s the same with decanting. Wines now get decanted to aerate them and you can get decanters designed to enhance that now. The old reason to leave the lees and crystallised tannins in the bottle no longer applies.
Excellent work Rev. Just a reminder for you. When you said no-one hospitalised, remember the old man thrown to the ground in Edinburgh Canongate by a crazed Unionist woman. I think his arm was broken. He certainly had to ‘attend’ hospital. Let us hope for no more violence and that this remains the worst assault during this debate.
Sorry to be a bit slow here – this Cochrane man asks how does someone in Bath know what’s going on in Scotland? Surely he knows the MSM reaches Bath, so does that mean he’s admitting the MSM doesn’t reflect what’s really going on in Scotland? Or is he just totally ignorant of the invention of Morse code and the telegraph, never mind the internet?