One of these statements must be wrong
Posted on
December 02, 2013 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
From today’s Express:
The economy’s transformed! Everything’s fine again!
(“The once sickly patient, sent into intensive care by Labour’s epic profligacy and mismanagement, is now returning to full health.”)
And the same day’s Telegraph:
Well, obviously we can’t afford a welfare state any more. But, y’know, otherwise fine.
Well, as everybody with any sense knows (well OK, everybody full stop) you can’t believe a word the Express prints, my money’s on the Telegraph!
Its not as if I haven’t been telling you that all these OBR doom and gloom forecasts were nothing to do with Independence but all to do with cutting the Old Age Pension.
Told you so
Yeah NHS clearly not a priority (not part of the equation .. not the important bit)
thats what will be jettisoned.
It’s beyond me why Scottish Labour want to expose us to this
Well, those who favour those two newspapers would argue that a healthy economy is a priori one that doesn’t spend money on fripperies such as welfare. So the mental gymnastics balance perfectly.
*sigh *
Obviously they’re both wrong!
We’re still heading towards 1.5T in debt so #1 is obviously a fallacy.
#2 UK could afford its welfare state, it’s all a matter of priorities when it comes to spending. Not wasting monies on Trident and the replacement would be a start, then perhaps we could do without the House of Lords, fix the irregularities in the tax system, but why would a war-mongering nation want to do silly things like that?
Re Pin
The reason is because Scottish Labour are essentially populated by extremely unpleasant people who have decided to embrace a cruel set of beliefs that they wish to impose on us.
Cruel, inhuman ideology as brought to you by Scottish Labour. But hey, the personal rewards for their MPs are worth our pain.
OT but sort of economical
One of the reasons for America going independent was that the Brits wouldn’t let them use their, Brit, money. I don’t suppose many people know that, Alistair Darling is one of the many.
Just as well it was the nice Tories that got in imagine what the nasty ones would be doing.
‘Call me dave’ put these up elswhere – very good info to counter with
link to bloomberg.com
link to ftadviser.com
Apologies for going O/T but Mr McColm is an ass. Tweeted a joke about those being pulled from the rubble of Cutha being asked how they’ll vote in the referendum before being rescued. Quickly deleted of course but a few people have a screenshot. And now he’s all “How lovely” about the cartoon in the Evening News.
So I either trust the Express to Hell or the Torygraph. Decisions Decisions.
“The once sickly patient, sent into intensive care by Labour’s epic profligacy and mismanagement, is now returning to full health.”
The “sickly patient” must have had an ATOS appointment. Patients go in one end of the AToS building sick and disabled and come out the other end totally restored to full health. That’s why AToS appointments are called a ‘Trip to Lourdes’. (From Elaine C. Smith, I think).
My goodness, the Express do not seem to know what “austerity” means or its alleged objective. The fact is UK national debt has gone up since 2010 and continues to go up. How can the adoption of austerity possibly be seen as a success?
The Telegraph seems to be getting closer to what austerity really means. Whatever government is in charge will determine the priorities and thereby what is to be cut. Alarmingly, New Labour have already stated they will be tougher than the Tories when it comes to slashing the benefits bill (Rachel Reeves MP, Shadow SoS DWP).
Even more financial articles appearing that Better Together will not be highlighting;
link to niesr.ac.uk
The Scottish Government’s White Paper provides an outline of its proposals for dividing the existing UK public debt and how the rest of the UK might be compensated. This note considers the implications of these proposals for the rest of the United Kingdom. We explain that in all cases, the UK’s debt to GDP ratio will rise, with possible consequences for its credit rating. At the same time, Scotland’s debt burden will be lower than the UK’s in all cases.
Nope both headlines are correct, its those pesky people who need help via benefits thats stopping the economy taking off like a rocket, Aye right the economy is still on its knees just look around you, and even if its was booming the poor on benefits would still suffer major cuts, no matter who had power at Westminster.
O/T Speaking of pesky people, David Cameron has taken 131 people with him to China, including his neighbour and his father in law, others include tory donors Howard Leigh and Lord Chadlington.
It smacks of sheer cronyism Cameron also invited Karen Brady vice chairman of West ham FC as well as Peter Bazalgette who created the awful tv show Big Brother.
OT: What’s happened to Derek Bateman’s websites? I can’t see either of them.
GP W
they have moved to another address you will find a link on the previous thread.
Does anyone know what they have their eye on
that they think is fair game for cutting?
@Marcia
Thanks very much.
GP
link to derekbateman1.wordpress.com
Some very sensible and revealing points (rubbishing the IFS report included) on currency and tax options available to an independent Scotland from my old economics professor Andrew Hughes Hallett:
link to bbc.co.uk
Derek Bateman has moved. Someone must know how to access. Check out NNS.
‘Welfare State’ ConDems elected to protect NHS/Education. Cut £3Billion a year from each They are borrowing an extra £6Billion to finance the increase in student fees in the rest of the UK. They cut taxes for the wealthy.They are still borrowing and spending £121Billion more.
They were borrowing raising £610 in the UK and spending £720Billion.
Now with tax cuts etc,. they are raising £572 and spending £693Billion.
The deficit has fallen £28Billion, but monies raised has fallen £38Billion. The difference has been made up by £2Billion mast sell off and £6Billion on a BoE scam.
They have sold off the Royal Mail £30Billion including Pension Fund (with £10Billion liabilities) A quick fix, which becomes a liability. Goes on the balance sheet and will have to be financed (by borrowing ?) in the future.
The deficit is down £28Billion but the liabilities (Pension fund) has future liabilities of £38Billion.
The UK Exchequer is still borrowing and spending £121Billion more in the rest of the UK, than Scotland. (Pro rata £12Billion).
Independence for Scotland will improve Scotland’s revenues. Scotland raises more and spends less. Scotland can reorganises it’s finances and people in Scotland will be better off.
link to derekbateman1.wordpress.com
link to derekbateman2.wordpress.com
These feckers are set to turn the clock back. A Victorian era ideal awaits complete with work houses, serfs, clearly defined class structures the whole shebang.
Only those with the cash will receive treatment when ill. Only those with the cash will go beyond basic schooling to receive higher level and university education. That alone will ensure that only the right sort get the right positions in life. Only those with the cash will be able to afford a healthy effing diet… you get the drift.
This is what is happening right now.
Osbourne must be referring to London S/E. No austerity there. Unemployment 4%. No cuts in Public funding. Business as usual. Bankers bonuses up 35%. No increased safeguarding in banking regulation and resistance to caps on bankers bonuses from the EU.
No bankers have gone to jail, or had any of their assets confiscated for fraudulent activity. While the rest of the UK pays the price.
Isn’t this comparing apple and pears? Or rather, fact and opinion?
The UK is currently the fastest growing economy in the developed world. That’s a fact. This is a result of the Coalition Government’s economic policies. That’s an opinion
.
As a result of this growth, the Chancellor will have to borrow around £20 billion less this year than previously expected. That’s a fact. This improvement will be insufficient to allow a relaxation of current “austerity” policies, including those that apply to welfare. That’s an opinion.
So there really isn’t much inconsistency here. The latest economic statistics can be seen either as good news, or as less bad news, depending on whatever bias is looking for confirmation that day.
In passing (and off-topic, sorry) I’m intrigued by the popularity of the Scottish Daily Express – it’s the fifth highest circulation daily newspaper, excluding freesheets, in Scotland, and the Scottish Daily Mail and the Sun have even higher circulations. How come these titles are so popular in a country which even the most optimistic Conservative could never describe as right wing in its political outlook?
OT.
The Spanish government is cracking down on protest. Our Catalonian friends will probably suffer under these new laws.
link to theguardian.com
@Macart
‘These feckers are set to turn the clock back.’
Kin right. And they won’t be stopped.
There are those who refuse to believe that child poverty exists. They won’t believe it until they see starving barefooted waifs lying in shop doorways.
Check out the short animation linked below, based on one of the most perfect short stories ever written, then ask yourself – does this kind of thing have to happen before we wake up to the nature of those ‘governing’ us?
Get your hankies ready – it’s ‘The Little Match Girl’ by Hans Christian Andersen:
Online poll
Wire in folks
link to moneysavingexpert.com
In real terms, total UK public expenditure:
2009-10
Current expenditure £644 billion
Capital expenditure £73 billion
2012-13
Current expenditure £657 billion
Capital expenditure £18 billion
Ongoing reductions to capital expenditure tend not to be sustainable. They do, however, fit nicely for anyone trying to make financial performance look better than what it actually is.
Surely the “real” cuts have still to come? These will have to come from annual (current) expenditure based on what the Tories and New Labour are saying. If you go along with the austerity has succeeded argument you are simply falling for the impending cuts being good too.
@Gaavster –
Nice one!
Have just voted – the figures right now, just as a wee marker, are, in the ‘If You Live in Scotland’ section:
Yes – 324 (45%)
No – 392 (54%)
Abstentions – 4 (1%)
Let’s see what it is in a couple of hours, now that you’ve alerted all us nasty rabid cybernats.
From todays tory papers
‘But he will tell MPs that he will still borrow around £100?billion this year and that his goal of eliminating the deficit is still several years away.
Treasury plans show austerity will have to continue until at least 2018. “People know the job is not done. There are going to have to be more difficult decisions. I’m going to have to take more difficult decisions this week because ultimately you can’t will your country’s public finances to be in better shape,” the Chancellor told the BBC.
Well we can’t say we haven’t been warned, lets hope enough of us have been listening!
Just voted
Now at yes 49% no 51% Hope they’re shitting themselves
@Ianbrotherhood
That didn’t take long
50/50 now… all to play for…..
50/ 50 now thanks to my vote making the poll even.
That’s it 50/50.
50/50 now .. though I can now see where the MSM have been getting their figures from .. Wales !!
I can’t take this excitement – I’m so glad I abstained.
And into the lead .. I guess that’s the last we’ll be hearing of this poll.
Lead growing rapidly…. revenge of the cybernats….
I’m surprised that the English residents don’t want rid off us, who’d have believed there’s so many clever little sassenachs around
In the space of 10 minutes (after those stats at 7.28 above) 240 votes were cast – 167 Yes, 73 No.
Thankfully the participants of only one set of those poll results matter
.. the rUK can think whatever it likes 
Who’s sorry now? (Connie Francis)
Television personality Katie Hopkins has apologised and blamed “poor timing” after offending Twitter users with a joke about life expectancy in Scotland after the fatal helicopter crash in Glasgow.
Hopkins, whose Twitter biography begins with the phrase “Telling it like it is”, wrote on the site on Saturday: “Life expectancy in Scotland based 07/08 birth is 59.5. Goodness me. That lot will do anything to avoid working until retirement.”
That sparked an online campaign by outraged social media users calling for her to be banned from television where she is a prominent and outspoken commentator on shows including This Morning.
link to archive.is
Katie Hopkins failed to understand the table of stats she looked at in the first place. Multi-level ignorance.
MoneySavingExpert poll making extremely good reading at the moment, obviously the full result can’t be considered until the postal votes have been included.
N. Ireland now supports iScotland too.
Just voted, 55 yes 45 no now!
If Ms Hopkins wants to be the ‘UK”s answer to Anne Coulter, she’s going the right way about it – where there’s muck there’s brass: kerr-ching!!!
Just voted. 56%/43% now.
As three of us are voting Yes in my home, I’ve voted three times…like accurate reflections in polls…
58% – 42% now .. by my reckoning that’s a swing of 25% since the Panelbase poll last week
Of course this is the first poll since the publication of the White Paper so it’s good to see the positive results.
Looks like Scottish Skier’s 60+ is being borne out in the poll.
I see the Welsh ‘YES’ is rising.
That’s a full hour since the stats I put in at 7.28.
Now:
Yes 859 votes 59%
No 603 votes 41%
I am, for all practical purposes, borderline innumerate, but even me see big change…
…so I make it, erm, eh, well…
746 votes cast within that hour, and 535 were Yes.
Correct?
Just voted:
Yes: 923 (59%)
No: 628 (40%)
Abstain: 6 (0%)
Whee!
60/40
but at least we know where the MSM are getting their zany results from
This is childish but 60% to 39%
From the site conducting the poll:
‘We try to use technology to limit voting to one per person. Occasionally, this may erroneously block a few people’s votes (eg, from shared offices). Apologies for that.’
Hey, Marty-boy, nae apology required man…keep it real.
LOL
Churn Rincewind
Perhaps the readers don’t buy these papers for the poliical content but for the sports/football content which is extensive. So it might be that we worry too much about their influence on the referendum issue.
My wife buys the Mail because one day it carries several pages on health issues, on another day it is financial advice etc. Hopefully she will be voting YES next year and I hope there are many like her.
All Celtic fringe going YES soon. Wales now playing a blinder.
Slow news day
Did Nigella leave her handbag in the Express offices today?
I see that Poll nails the lie that if we gave the English the vote they would kick us out the Union whereas N Ireland and Wales are very even handed the matter
61% Yes 39% No where it actually counts.
60% 39%
oh dear what have we done?
I think we’ve broke it,
someone’ll be paying for that.
Hey! What happened to the poll did my eyes really see some YES votes disappear?
2% of the vote in a flash!
Kininvie says
” revenge of the cybernats….”
Did ah no watch that fae behind the couch in 1965 wi Jon Pertwee?
ah’ll get ma extra long scarf
The Better Together lot will be having a go to turn it. They do read the stuff posted on this place even if they do hate it:)
@Pin. 5.08pm.
There is no longer any such thing as Scottish Labour.
There is just a collection of greedy grasping self-serving mendacious bastards desperate for power for its own sake. They are a club, and you and I and the vast majority of Scotland’s population aren’t in it.
lets watch the bastards taken off the site @ 21.03
I live in Scotland (2221 votes)
Yes to Scottish Independence
1286 votes (58%)
No to Scottish Independence
924 votes (42%)
I’d abstain
11 votes (0%)
It’s all out cyber-war
A couple of hundred No votes got thrown in the mix in the space of a few minutes. It must be on the Better Together homepage or LabourHame something
lets go get oor pals
Over a ten minute period earlier I did a count to work out the average number of votes per minute that were being clocked up, I know…beyond anal. Anyway, there were approx. 6.5 Yes votes per minute as oppose 2.5 No votes per minute on the Scotland poll. So, too few, too slow and definitely no’ the brightest…Hmmm…58% 42%…oops somebody’s woke up a bt’er….and told them to get typin’…
21.37
I live in Scotland (2292 votes)
Yes to Scottish Independence
1317 votes (57%)
No to Scottish Independence
964 votes (42%)
I’d abstain
11 votes (0%)
Lol somebody bung the link on Bella and Newsnet
Anyone know any BT hangouts?
Would be interesting to see if it had been posted there?
re. online poll
Yep, just checked, the link is on the BT facebook page, they are all trying to catch up. Quick, get the link out to everyone.
If nothing else, this might give us an idea of who has the most online clout: the cybernats or the britnats.
This is fun.
This is f******’ hysterical, it’s 10 per minute…from both sides…brilliant (note to self, you neeed…to get out more)
Good work cyber agent Mary…
Right folks, we know what we’ve got to do….
Let’s get the word oot…
”Attack you they will: overcome you they can’t”.
God’s message to Jeremiah. (the Bible)
It is silly but it is fun. Shows the oomph WoS has though – this isn’t even on the lead story.
Far more interesting is the England result. A hefty number of votes and not really anything to do with Yes or Better Together (although a surprising number of the Better Together Facebook page folk seem to live there).
@Ian Brotherhood
Cheers Ian, the very imagery I had in mind.
Like I said this is happening now. There are kids in our own streets right now starving and freezing. If our status quo is such a desirable effing thing can anyone out there explain to me just why this is happening? Just how can there be such poverty if we’re doing so effing well?
I suppose the prick featured at the top of this thread has a different standard of ‘doing well’ to the rest of us.
YES polling better now slight increase in the gap which was 340 ish to now 370 ish
Both are right Stu ……. The Chancellor was absolutely right last year in that he has f’d up the UK economy so much we can not afford the Welfare State …
The underlying debt is bad enough but UK Government borrowing is through the roof which rather suggests tax receipts are not as healthy as they should be and the Sterling trade gap is getting seriously out of kilter.
Good old Gideon – he’ll just keep on doing what he is being told to do by Tory Party donors, selling off NHS England to US corporates, NCB to Australia and all the other wheezes he has come up with in attempt to hide just what a bloody disaster he actually is – Brown and Darling combined did not make this level of mess of the economy even though they tried really hard.
Now here is the question. Do you think there are people disguising as being Scottish and voting no in this poll or vice versa ?
ExtremeO
No idea – I’m not sure if the MoneySaving site can discern where the ISP is from. It looks like people are generally going with their own neck of the woods. You would expect Scots to vote on the Scottish section.
The numbers at 4.13:
Yes 2419 (61%)
No 1528 (39%)
For anyone who’s jumping right to the end and maybe can’t locate the original poll as posted by Gaavster:
link to moneysavingexpert.com
The UK can afford a Welfare state. Westminster spends the monies on illegal wars, Trident, redundant weaponry, tax evasion and banking fraud.
People in the UK have a commitment to a comprehensive public funded NHS and Education system. The ConDems elected to protect the NHS and Education system have cut funding and are privatising NHS and education.
Osbourne has lied and betrayed the people.
Don’t forget, that Money-saving website is hugely popular – the number of Scottish Yes votes is now only 200 short of the total number of votes (Y & N) for England, and % Yes from Scots has clicked up to 62%.
If they don’t knock this thing on the head it’s going to be very embarrassing for the naysayers – no sign of it flat-lining yet, let alone any reverse.
Keep it going folks -the psychological battle is important, and every little helps.
Every time. Every single bloody time there’s an online poll, we win by a country mile, despite the naysayers having equal opportunity to recruit their forces. It’s obvious we have the stronger online presence by some considerable margin.
So why can’t we break into the teen market? Is there no crossover between what responsible adults look at online and the preoccupations of the adolescent contingent?
Morag
There was an independent study into this (might be on the psephologist’s site) where the factor in on line Yes dominance was discovered to be remarkable….several times that of Better Together. We see this on the ground too with Better Together stalls having typically 3 or 4 people and Yes frequently into double figures. Paltry numbers at Better Together town hall events and packed halls for Yes events – over a 1,000 at the Radical Independence convention. We have the boots on the ground and the fingers on the keyboard. Better Together are relying on fear of change. If they lost that then they really would have their backs against the wall.
Yes, we do need to reach out to the 16 to 20 cohort and that is most likely best undertaken by Radical Independence and the Greens who have much more resonance with the young than grumpy old gits like me.
63% to 37% now I see
I was reading The Tipping Point last night (and now I see why Calum called me a maven at the ambassador training course). There has got to be a point between now and next summer where the sheer enthusiasm of the Yes side becomes infectious.
It’s the communicators we really need. I think such people are born rather than made, but surely in all the Yes campaign we have enough of these?
The Money blogger poll is interesting, now showing Scotland as 63%Y – 37%N from Scots, but from the whole UK it’s 52%Y – 46%N.
On the voting figures so far of 7772, with 4024 going for YES and 3584 for NO with the balance abstaining.
England want to keep us in the union but NI and Wales are backing independence.
However by weight of numbers England again, if given the chance would keep us in the union. Thanks for nothing.
I see the MoneySaver site now has a disclaimer (in red no less) on their poll because Yes is winning so handsomely. Must be them thar evil Cybergnats
I think someone on the discussion page was bitching about the poll. However, the fact remains that the poll was mentioned on the Better Together Facebook page too. They just don’t have the same level of activity…that is our problem? The people voting are real people and their choice is a reflection of their preference.
PS I had a look and the chap complaining is Bitter …very, very Bitter
Now its 65 / 35.
But we’ve just to ignore it. (It’s all Gaavster’s fault for flagging it up here, eh? Naughty-stool for you G!)
Ach well – seeing as it doesn’t really mean anything no-one will mind when it’s 70 / 30.
I don’t understand the logic of the moneysavingexpert poll comment. Are they saying that No voters don’t have the equipment and/or the intellect to participate online?
This is surely very insulting to proud Scots.
Ah but proud means too wee, too stupid and too poor. So they can’t afford a keyboard, couldn’t reach one if they had one and wouldn’t be able to work if someone gave them one and stepladders to reach it.
Haha
That’s what Ayrshire does to you (us) Mr Brotherhood…