Meanwhile in the newspapers
Posted on
March 08, 2014 by
Chris Cairns
The world's most-read Scottish politics website
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Wings Over Scotland is a (mainly) Scottish political media digest and monitor, which also offers its own commentary. (More)
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A tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
Very good Chris. You make him look so grown up too!
Is that a shadow below his feet, or a puddle?
Keep it up Beaker it will be all the sweeter when your Tory masters bow to pressure from the Dark Star and begin to negotiate a currency union
What is it that happens to people’s chins when they get into high political office? Anyone want to put together a montage of examples? Saw Jackie Baillie on TV today, hers is long gone. Jabba the Hutt comes to mind.
We have reached a very, very, serious point in the independence debate when the Daily Record website starts moderating all of my posts (as they have from today).
I guess THE TRUTH just starts to hurt TOO MUCH from the way these guys work out their financial modelling.
As I have recommended before:-
– Do not spend a penny going forward on national newspapers (paper copies or online).
– Send the equivalent money that you would have spent on these MSM Titanics as donations to Wings or to other worthy YES causes such as YES Pollok.
link to indiegogo.com
You know it makes sense.
Just sayin’
Colin mccartney
Re chins, I wonder of Jackie Baillie and Blair McDougal were separated at birth.
Chris Cairns cartoons makes Wings so very professional looking to inquisitive newcomers and not just a wee cyberNat blog.
Then they start to read the blogs and comments and then they contribute.
And the Rev can take the night off to drink monkified cider and play poker with real money.
Danny Alexander was the Press Officer for the Cairngorms National Park when he got elected to Westminster.
So Danny is undoubtedly an excellent SELL-THE-MESSAGE guy, just as long as the message is a good sellable (to the mugs) message.
If the message is a weasel-words-pile-of-poo Danny is totally fecked.
Read my lips: Plan A is the only game in town
‘Daft laddie question’: has anyone in our incompetent, ‘Better Together’-loving media actually asked Osborne or Alexander what they are in fact going to do if Scotland votes Yes? Stick with this ‘no currency union’ line? Really?
(Just for balance and fairness, you understand: after all, they’re all over the Scottish Government like a rash demanding information about ‘Plan B’.)
We all know there is only one reason for the UKG’s supposed refusal of a currency union, and that is to frighten people into voting No. And to think that the UK is meant to be a ‘mature democracy’, too…
@Bugger (the Panda) says:
And the Rev can take the night off to drink monkified cider and play poker with real money.
Two questions:-
1) Can I get monkified cider in SPAR?
2) Now that rUK have started negotiating (#1 = On Currency), how much do I get in backdated compensation (of the danger-money variety) for having lived most of my life downwind of Faslane?
Danny has one fan it seems…oops
link to archive.is
@Luigi says:
Is that a shadow below his feet, or a puddle?
The latter I suspect.
Alexander looks the hideous love-child of Harry Potter and Ron Weasley!
@BuckieBraes says:
‘Daft laddie question’: has anyone in our incompetent, ‘Better Together’-loving media actually asked Osborne or Alexander what they are in fact going to do if Scotland votes Yes?
The MSM won’t ask, and nobody on BT does ‘asking’.
It’s all about ‘telling’.
When we vote YES in September the BT guys are all fecked.
But nobody worry their pretty little heads about Danny.
Danny Alexander has already fixed himself up with a nice safe Tory seat in the Shires.
(Why do you think Danny has been high-fiving Gerge Osborne for months?)
Just sayin’
Bugger (the Panda) said:
8 March, 2014 at 7:31 pm
“Re chins, I wonder of Jackie Baillie and Blair McDougal were separated at birth.”
That image has scared the bejabbers out of me
Not forgetting the original chin – We hate Jimmy Hill..he’s a poof..he’s a poof
Beaker iz a wet and a weed, as any fule kno.
Another possible Glasgow social in the offing – details over on Quarantine.
The Westminster govt has been emphatic no shared pound
They can not say that they were misunderstood
I think Alex salmond has been very astute
He knows outside influences will come into play
And force Westminster to admit that sharing is possible after all
Pollok campaign rounded up… I have a penchant for round figures… must be a OCD thing or something. ????
@Calgacus – Danny Alexander was the Press Officer for the Cairngorms National Park how in the name of fucklington fuck has this boy found himself in such a prominent position of pishing on his country! FFS
Keep up the jokes and the insults. There will be currency union with an independent Scotland.
I think it’s because they routed the train track in a stupid place.
PS – OT did we miss this, our friend José Barroso saying how Scotland and Europe need each other?
link to eu-un.europa.eu
@croompenstein
it’s a shame to see Wings harbours homophobes.
@an_observer – Que?
need to enlarge this image
link to pbs.twimg.com
@ An-Observer
Please direct me to similar posts that you have conveyed on other sites from people of the opposite persuasion – for balance of course
I was listening to ‘Any Questions’ today on R4, old Danny Alexander was on, spouting on about working with the EU and not threatening them, so its just Scotland that gets that treatment
..
link to bbc.co.uk
listen from about 34 mins in
@anobserver
Another pithy and profound contribution to the debate. I really don’t know what we’d do withiut your sparkling wit and repartee.
Sorry an_observer just realised what you are referring to..I have to say that you would have to be Scottish and of a certain age to understand my post about chins. It is no way homophobic as our erstwhile friend Jimmy Hill knew well at the time. At that time we used to sing about Bryan Robson’s wifes morals but also terracing banter. You’re maybe not old enough to remember or maybe not Scottish in which case I forgive your insult.
Not impressed with the use/abuse of the word ‘poof’, Croompenstein, this isn’t the 1950’s and this isn’t big, funny or clever.
Oh and I got the reference and knew exactly what you meant, Croompenstein, still didn’t like it though.
@Croopenstein
Politeness exemplified
Sorry back again this has probably been posted before (it has by someone on Derek Bateman’s blog) but the bit of Alexanders wee speech that blinking annoyed me was:
“I just think the the idea that you can advance the reform agenda by sitting down with people and saying, ‘If you don’t agree with me we are going to walk away from the club.’ is just completely wrong. You get the best out of any alliance or any attempt to work together with other people by working positively with them, not continually threatening you will throw your toys out of the pram and walk away.”
@Flooplepoop
This do?
link to pbs.twimg.com
Clegg has made the lib dems a sick joke by being Cameron’s little poodle. No wonder so many lib dems have left their party with tories and Thatcherites like Danny Alexander pi$$ing on the poor alongside Osborne. All the while the lib dem leadership’s odious spinners try to ignore the food-banks, the deaths and misery the likes of ATOS and the coalition policies have inflicted on the disabled the vulnerable and the poor.
Thank goodness the voters are as canny as those lib dems who have already left and have thankfully made it plain that they will have no truck with despicable yellow Thatcherites like Clegg, Alexander and the rest.
One sock up, one sock down.
One shoelace tied, the other untied.
One arm in front, one behind his back.
Yep, we don’t even need to peek behind him to see the crossed fingers to know we have before us a LibDem.
OT again but R4 Any Questions is going to be in Edinburgh on Friday. Not sure if there are any tickets left (the organiser gets to distribute some??) as I am not able to attend.
link to qmu.ac.uk
@An_observer – 8:51pm
There will be currency union with an independent Scotland.
Weren’t you saying the opposite last time? Or was that a typo?
Croompenstein,
Re: your pathetic homophobic comment above about Jimmy Hill. You can calll it ‘banter’ if you want, but I remember the 70’s well, and let me assure you, it WAS and STILL IS HOMOPHOBIC.
Or are we to assume that within your world, it’s ok to insult a group of people, as long as you call it ‘banter’?
I come to this site for politics, not homophobia and mindless bigotry.
Would I be pushing the boundaries of political correctness to ask if we need one of these?
@Squirrel Towers –
‘…throw your toys out of the pram and walk away.’
His metaphors are even more mixed-up than he is – if you could walk, what would you be doing in a pram?
OK, so you won’t let us use ‘your’ pound. Fine. We’ll manage. Let’s just see how you get on without our Higgs boson.
If a smart graphics person thinks that’s funny enough to turn into a smart graphic, be welcome.
I was astonished when my Tory supporting friend told me that the BBC was biased against independence. There is hope here.
Canvassing door to door (the only way to win the vote)this morning when a guy from The Gambia told me he was voting YES as Gambia has zilch resources but was independent and life was improving and we just need to look to Norway.
Couldn’t put it better myself.
“Keep up the jokes and the insults. There will be currency union with an independent Scotland”
Aint life a bitch without an edit function d-oh
@Robert Louis
I was one of probably 100’s of thousands who sung the Jimmy Hill ditty. Think I also said quite a few people where wankers- as part of the repertoire.
Lets hope I don’t say when I hear someone’s opinion that I think they’re mad – just in case they take it serious and prosecute me
twenty14
It was homophobic, and IS homophobic. Just because you and ‘100’s and thousands’ of other homophobes sang it, doesn’t make it ok.
Jeez.
@Robert Louis – My brother is a gay man and I have lots of gay friends so please don’t call me a pathetic homophobe. Ironically he probably sang this louder than me at Hampden
Croompenstien,
The comment you made WAS and IS homophobic.
I just heard this one on BBC News 24 – a Female reporter, after interviewing Vince Cable about the LibDem tax rate increase, said, “Labour, of course, are against this as the people on benefits don’t pay tax”. What a numptie! That main burden of tax has long ago been indirect tax, (on goods and services), not direct tax, (on income and wealth). This is why the gap between the rich and poor began to increase under Labour and has gone on doing so ever since. VAT, Road Fuel duty, alcohol duty, tobacco duty, betting Tax, Road Tax, et al. The Tory/LibDem first actions were to increase the VAT rate, add extra items to the VAT list, and then to cut the rich guys 50p tax rate. Thus the poorest bear even more of the larger proportion of tax burden. Do these people thing we all button up the back? We all pay that main burden of tax but the poorest have no, “disposable income”, so are hardest hit by indirect taxation.
“Would I be pushing the boundaries of political correctness to ask if we need one of these?”
Naw, one of these will be enough
Beaker was on Vote No BBC Question Time vote NO Scotland Dimbleby style this afternoon and if William Hague’s a Tory stuffed shirt in action, Beaker’s the Highland’s Tory Boy reposte but at least Danny boy can sing link to youtube.com
@ Robert Louis
Robert – I commented with regards your comments to Croompenstein and Hompohobic- I, and I’m sure 100’s of thousands who sang this song at Hampden are not and have never been Homophobic .
Do you honestly think that anyone on this site states that someone from BT is mental, crazy, deranged etc -actually mean that they should be sectioned.
Looks like your looking for something that isn’t there
Seeing as so many people are getting cranky tonight, could one of you please ask Rev to do something about that FUCKING Quarantine thread? (I’ve asked, very politely, what, five times?)
747 comments on it – responding to comments is like trying to walk wearing an old-style deep-sea divers outfit.
john king
You could have warned us your clip is an 18 certificate.
“The comment you made WAS and IS homophobic.”
Starting to sound like an observer Robert, it seems his attack on croompenstien has had the effect he was looking for, we have to put up with far far worse on a DAILY basis, were treated like shit by commentators on the BBC and your worried by a terracing chant, get over yourself,
and before you attack me I also have a homosexual brother and I don’t have an issue with homosexualty but it seems so many people lose their sense of humour when it is mentioned.
@ Ian Brotherhood
Was thinking similar – could the Rev possibly keep it to monthly or weekly thus allowing it to be looked at much more quickly. No idea how these things work but surely it takes its toll on the site in general
twenty14,
The term poof is an insulting and derogatory name for a gay man. Using it as an insult, is homophobic.
I come to this site for politics, not to read stupid pig ignorant homophobic comments.
Here’s Beaker Alexander from the Highland’s doing a great Chris Martin. He probably practices in the ministerial limo as he signs those multi million quid cheques for ATOS and how many of the worst off have now died since you took hold of the reigns of power Beaker? link to youtube.com
@Croompenstien
I’m afraid I must agree with Robert.
What was acceptable in the 70’s is no longer the case.
The use of language changes over time and we must endeavor to ensure that we do not cause unintended hurt through poor use…
We must all remember that we should be writing as if an undecided voter was reading.
There is no benefit in division – there are those who would be a supporter of such actions, who would use such a gift to do the independence movement harm.
There really is no place in todays Scotland for comments such as yours above, even if innocent as you claim.
john king,
Poof is a derogatory, insulting term. It isn’t funny – hence the lack of humour.
bbc scotlandshire have their own take on this story:
link to bbc.scotlandshire.co.uk
@ Robert Louis
My gay cousin called me a tit – guess what – I’m not
who was he insulting.
You seem to want this to run, most people, of whatever persuasion, would have skipped this by now
twenty 14
As I have now said three times, I come here for politics, not homophobic bigotry.
@ Robert Louis
Robert – seems your offended by an off the cuff remark, as in all the years being a viewer and occasional poster on this site, I have never come across any homophobic bigotry never mind any other bigotry – unless you call someone “mad ” as bigotry.
Did you not expect, in a debate that would encompass the whole nation, that others might use a different phrase of tongue from yourself or did you think that all correspondents on sites such as this would all have some sort of bible to read from. – this is the biggest debate in our nations history – we’re not all fat or skinny, intellectual or dim, happy or sad, grammatically correct or writing with instinct – I think the words Homophobic bigotry were just waiting to be planted
Alexander has tied his colours to the mast. He’s made it very clear he represents Westminster directive and not the needs of his constituents or the wider Scottish electorate.
You’re being too kind to him Chris.
MEANWHILE IN THE NEWSPAPERS. Fish and chips.
Scott Minto
Here, here..
Guys we are all on the same side in this movement, if one of us has felt offended, suck it up and apologies.
The only thing we should be getting offended by, is the travesty of Westminster rule.
Something to stir the blood! Oor hame!
@Robert Louis.
What have you got against pigs? Are you some kind of pigophobe?
I thought you guys were supposed to be ‘gay’. Seems to me all you do is wander around being miserable, looking at dunts and seeing holes.
Oops.
split and divide – not required
Vatersay Boys on Alba
eh to be fair I think I did apologise Sorry an_observer just realised what you are referring to
Until relatively recent times the default attitude of the predominantly heterosexual hegemony that has influenced our cultures, societies etc has been one of homophobia. A kind of ‘natural’ prejudice that doesn’t just apply to homosexuality but to any ‘otherness’, perceived as threatening to the ‘normal’ consensus. No doubt the terrace calls in those days before the breaking down of those prejudices by brave men and women, who hitherto had to live/work/love in hiding, often from their own families because they would be at the least rejected and at worst attacked for being who they are, is still an on going reality regardless of recent attitudinal changes.
I think it’s very difficult to understand the sensitivity that surrounds this from a purely academic perspective. The use of pejorative terms is of necessity a very real problem, there’s a difference between being called a ‘tit’ which doesn’t have the same ‘load’ attached to it as it isn’t perceived as a personal attack on one’s character in quite the same way as ‘poof’. Which was very much from the heterosexual ‘normal’ position a definite slur on the person’s character, in fact, I would say the ‘load’ was/is more personal.
But, I digress, let’s not kid ourselves that the wounds are healed, I agree with Scott Minto, regarding the ‘casual’ use of certain insults even if it is just a repeating of silly football mantras from decades ago. There’s no need to get complacent with this, language is important. For those who think Robert Louis is being sensitive, irrespective of family members being gay. Can I say, it’s not the same as being gay.
twenty14,
The point is, a poster here, made a homophobic comment, then when another person (not me) picked them up on it. they defended it by stating that it was just ‘banter’. The word ‘poof’ is a derogatory and insulting term. Whether it is said on football terraces or not, does not negate that it is intrinsically homophobic.
Despite what you assert above about me taking offense, the reality is that I did not take offense – if you take time to read my comments you will see that.
The real problem however, as sneakyboy pointed out, is that many people come to this site for information on Scottish independence. They do not come here to read homophobic comments – at least I wouldn’t expect them to – so it damages not just this site, but also the campaign for Scottish independence.
I’m aware that it was a quote of a song and that it wasn’t intended in a homophobic way, but let’s just not have that word said again, shall we? There are a small handful of words that can’t be used without offence unless it’s by one of the group concerned. I can’t bring myself to type one that begins with “n” even just for the purpose of illustrating the point.
No more, please. And readers, you know what I mean when I say “please”.
k1
Thanks. You make some very valid points, well.
Stuart I apologise as I am in no way homophobic or racist I was trying to be humorous about chins and have failed sorry..but if I have damaged the campaign for Scottish independence I will never forgive myself…
“Stuart I apologise as I am in no way homophobic or racist I was trying to be humorous about chins and have failed sorry”
I completely believe that. Just let’s not do it again, mmkay?
@K1
Totally agree
but totally outwith the debate on this thread, apart from someone taking offence at an earlier comment.
As I’ve said earlier – what would be your opinion on calling someone who’s views differ from yours as ” mad ” – Run through a 400 word thread on how we should not use the word “mad “
Sorry rev – End of
@twenty14 now, now…”Totally agree” is a comprehensive concurrence.
This was not a ‘ differing of views’ comment that I made. This was a spontaneous comment related to one ‘offshoot’ that the thread took. My comment speaks for itself in that regard.
@K1 – totally apologise if you took offence
@twenty14 none taken…think Rev said enough…and so…enough it is.
Let’s just talk about ways and means to Scotland’s Independence !
Luigi 7.16p.m. – loved it.
Another thread in which I find an unusual lack of respect (70’s language)
Two words to remember – Intent and Impact.
Regardless of intent you must consider the impact.
Can we now get back to the business of winning a referendum for a better Scotland.
@Flower of Scotland
Yes- didn’t mean to offend anyone. Independence is our goal leading to a richer, fairer society for all our children
Bit late to this one, sorry.
As an actual gay person, reading through, I wasn’t offended. Just disappointed.
Great pic Chris! See what you started.
“Cross my heart and hope to die”
(When I am hung out to dry)
Bugger (the Panda) says: Re chins, I wonder of Jackie Baillie and Blair McDougal were separated at birth.
For that matter, has anyone ever seen them in the same room together?
(And apologies if anyone thinks they detect unacceptably high levels of transgenderist bigotry in that quip).
On a lighter note – going back to the “chin” question, all the chins were confiscated and given to Johann!
@MajorBloodnok
‘(And apologies if anyone thinks they detect unacceptably high levels of transgenderist bigotry in that quip).’
Nah…low levels of not so subtle sarcasm…each to their own level…smirk.
EBC SUNDAY POLITICS 12:00 news
Re Dounreay leak. Phil Hammond when asked by Alex Salmond why it took so long to inform SG. “All relevant parties were informed”
So the SG and by extension the Scottish People are irrelevant.
If you vote NO then you are voting to be irrelevant. Aye the proud pseudo middle class Scots.
MajorB
Oooh you are awful.
It is fascinating how the nuances and even meanings of words evolve over the years. A case in point, and one I know Mr Gaughan is very familiar with, is the song Freedom Come All Ye’ by the late, great, Hamish Henderson. A song which is often touted as a possible national anthem for Scotland even though he never intended it to be.
Now I suspect it would be hard to find anyone less bigoted than Hamish Henderson, yet there are not one, but two, examples in that song where intervening meaning or nuance shift means he would, IMO, almost certainly not use those words if he wrote it today.
The first is in the line ” An yon black boy frae yont Nyanga”. Perfectly innocuous in 1960, just as someone saying “a boy fae Fife” say, would be today. but in the ensuing decades having been exposed to a certain genre of ‘Southern’ movies and TV shows from the States, where, seemingly, every small town had a stereotypical, white, usually overweight, sheriff who used the word ‘boy’ for black men in a pejorative tone, it is no longer a word that people feel comfortable with. And indeed, many performers of the song have switched to using the word ‘lad’.
The second instance is in the line “Aa thae rogues that gang gallus fresh an gay”. At the time, ‘gay’ was simply an alternative word for ‘overtly happy’. Since then, of course, it has come to mean homosexual. Technically, it can still mean ‘overtly happy’, but I cannot remember the last time I saw it used in that context. Although neither meaning is offensive in itself, it is possible that some gay person might take offence at the line if he thought Hamish was implying that rogues are gay in the modern sense. Which of course, he was not.
I am only giving these examples to show that even a great egalitarian can easily be misconstrued by the evolution of words and in a remarkably short time.
You make a good case Chic, for the evolution of language and the meanings of certain words changing to less pejorative uses over time. This is of course inevitable as culture changes but also cultural change is marked also by certain groups re framing words that are used as insults as a way of neutralising the pejorative intent. A bit like Rev mentioned, owned and used by that group it is not perceived as ‘insult’.
The word ‘gay’ was adopted by the homosexual community as a form of positive affirmation, as a means of neutralising the very real perception that homosexuality was deviant in thought, and in deed. In fact in recent years that word has been used in pejorative terms by a new generation to mean, weak, soft, perhaps even sensitive. Mainly aimed at males. So words in my opinion can also devolve into becoming insulting, very much depending on the mentality and intent of the user.
I find this interesting in the context of the referendum too. The pejorative use of the word ‘nat’ or ‘nationalist’ that has arisen and been applied to anyone who is in the yes side is a good example of this intended insult by many who are opposed to independence. It serves a purpose, to dehumanize the person, reduce to a label then everything that person says is invalidated accordingly. Happily commenters on this site adopted the neutralising position, of ‘owning’ the term ‘nat’ as a badge of honour, and humour. Owned and used by this group we don’t perceive this as ‘insult’.
I’m in the curious position as I have heard many others comment on, of being perceived as a ‘nationalist’, or ‘mad’ because I’m voting yes, by members of my family. We have had to agree for the most part not to discuss anything to do with it, as it becomes quickly heated. One member is so vehemently opposed, they mimic word for word opinions expressed by the mainstream opiners on every aspect of how impossible it all is. Not only that, they attack me personally about it when arguing, not the content or aspect under discussion.
I’ve come to realise that there is a ‘mentality’ that is similar in all forms of prejudice. My family member works from what has become a homogeneous default position: the way things are, ‘is’ ‘normal’. Anything as veering that far from the ‘norm’ as independence is perceived, is so threatening it’s actually worth verbally attacking and undermining me as a person, flesh and blood be damned!
Fear is at the core of this, as it is with all pejorative language. We do well to transpose our understanding of fairness, egalitarianism and equality in the political sphere to all arenas in our public and private life. There’s nothing like a good
Scottish referendum to air, discuss and reframe our own conditioned reflexes and look more deeply into finding ways of truly creating a present and future inclusive society.
Thanks, Chic, for your interesting post.
One of the things I love about WoS is that I learn something new every day, and not necessarily related to Scottish independence.
As to national anthems… When I lived in Australia in the early 1990s, people still weren’t totally comfortable with Advance Australia Fair (incidentally, written by a Scot!), they liked Walzing Matilda and others (even God Save the Queen!). The Sydney Olympics, however, sort of cemented Advanca Australia Fair.
My country’s national anthem is a bit of an accident. In the 1840s students asked a German composer to write music to this Finnish patriotic poem (written in Swedish and not translated into Finnish until a couple of decades later) for their spring picnic, and the resulting song is very much like a German drinking song of the time. The students at the time didn’t mind, the spring picnic was a time to eat, drink and be merry.
So now we’re stuck with this German drinking song type national anthem.
Apparently it isn’t too awful, Estonia copied it. Our national anthems are subtly different. Finnish anthem: repeat chorus; Estonian anthem: not repeat chorus. The Estonian anthem’s lyrics are also different but the music is the same.
Many foreign classical music afficianodos admire what they think is our national anthem, Sibelius’s Finlandia, especially the Finlandia Hymn part of it, but sorry, no go.
We love the Finlandia Hymn but it’d be a crap national anthem. Ordinary non-musical citizens like me wouldn’t be able to sing it, it could not be sung at the end of ice-hockey matches won by Finland. Instead, we’ve got our ditty that can be easily musically murdered by the mobs. Missing any higher, or indeed any notes can be disguised by bellowing out the words.
I have no idea what indy Scotland’s national anthem would/should be… Hang on, I feel a fear and uncertainty and doubt moment coming on…
Yes, Scotland won’t even have a national anthem if it rips itself away from the bosom of the UK and God Save the Queen!
So there! Vote NO to keep God Save the Queen. QED.