Despatches from Madland
We had an interesting discussion on Twitter this afternoon with the Guardian’s Severin Carrell. As a result, we decided to check something out that we hadn’t seen anyone be clear about, and the upshot is that we can now confirm, from what we’ll call “an extremely well-placed source”, that the Herald was fully aware, every step of the way, that Elliot Bulmer’s piece had been commissioned by Yes Scotland, and that it was submitted to the Herald through Yes Scotland.
It was, therefore, solely and exclusively the Herald’s responsibility to disclose, or not disclose, anything and everything to do with the article’s provenance that it considered pertinent. The Herald chose to publish the piece (having no obligation to do so). The Herald knew precisely where it came from and by what route. The Herald chose not to mention the Yes Scotland connection (which it was also under no obligation to do). Yes Scotland, and Elliot Bulmer, hid nothing from anyone.
Them’s the facts. Anyone telling you otherwise is lying. That is all.
Oh dang.
BT and Labour egg on face. 😀 LOL
Time to break out the chocolate raisins and sit back.
I expect this will be front page news tomorrow,,, er…
Just as I guessed at 4:38pm this afternoon on my post at http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-morality-of-madland/#comment-482797.
My God, they’re all desperate aren’t they?
Oh no, Rev ….. not MORE truth and facts!! You know how much they HATE that?
@Macart
May I suggest you start buying your chocolate raisins in bulk? It could be a long year! 🙂
Rev,
is this actual, provable fact ?
or
is it from the mouth of Severin Carrell ?
(He who so categorically claimed that the referendum date was going to be the anniversary of Bannockburn that he flooded his own Guardian article with comments on how great he was in making such a prediction)
Great news, not altogether unexpected though 🙂
“is this actual, provable fact ?
or
is it from the mouth of Severin Carrell ?”
It’s not from the mouth of Severin Carrell. How would he be “an extremely well-placed source” in a matter involving Yes Scotland, Elliot Bulmer and the Herald? He’s none of them.
Let’s hope the police and the PF have the cojones to take this all the way and live up to their raison d’etre. Forget the bullshit about the £100 paid for an article, that will barely cover the guy’s morning charge rate and that’s before his coffee. Keep in mind the ‘blood money’ received and KEPT by BT and it pales into comparison.
Leveson is fresh in every law enforcer’s memory and big things have to happen.
Oh Lord. It’s like a particularly farcical episode of The Thick of it.
@Firestarter
Waaaay ahead of you. Its a decent merlot to accompany that’s the hard part. 🙂
“…involving Yes Scotland, Elliot Bulmer and the Herald…”
And by a process of elimination…
Just read this from Iain McWhirter’s blog – Interesting and chilling at the same time. Its sad that even the journalists are having to revert to face to face meetings or handwritten notes as their own email security systems are suspect.
link to iainmacwhirter2.blogspot.co.uk
I think the whole article issue is manufactured to create a stooshie where there is no real news or to distract from the email hacking issue.
The Scottish MSM can’t be trusted on any level, not with general news, statistics or events because everything has to have either an element of Scottish cringe or pure propaganda, distortion of the facts or misuse of stats, just to make the SNP look bad for being in Government elected by the people of Scotland. But most of all for wanting the best outcomes for all of the people in Scotland. I find mostg news about Scotland to be treated the same way not just where the SNP is included.
I’m ordinary gal not a political anorak but the whole of Scotland must feel like me and screaming “hey journo, I am not that STUPID”. I feel frustration with them all.
I don’t know about the Guardian journo as some of his articles in the Guardian, display sheer sneering when even imparting the most basic of news. For example the Borderlands Pact announcement
link to theguardian.com
BTW, I appreciate your efforts in this site and to be honest, it has helped me persuade people to at least question the benefits of the Union of equals. Keep up the good work.
MSM, BBC and BT = Omnishambles 🙂
So the story that’s the main story is not an important story at all – it’s just a plain old story.
If the Scottish papers are looking to fill space, I am close to completing the documentation on my 6 month project to teach my dog the time.
No bungs, no crowdfunding, no hacked emails, no smashed disk drives, no space aliens – just good old-fashioned propaganda:
Please drop in and take our poll.
link to bbc.scotlandshire.co.uk
Oh FFS! They’ve trotted out everything under the sun and when that dried up they tried a bit of shit stirring over something daft; which has yet again blown up in their faces (do they even have faces left after all that?).
They should really pack up and go home, you can see Australia through the bottom of their barrel.
Apologies Rev – I thought you meant that Severin Carrell had told you of a reliable source within ‘Yes’ Scotland, not that you had sourced this reliable person/information yourself.
Rev from what I understood from tonight’s reporting on radio and tv was that Blair Jenkins clearly stated YES Scotland contacted The Herald about the article before it was even written? The question was were The Herald aware that Yes Scotland paid for it?
link to bbc.co.uk
The Herald confirmed it was offered an article for its opinion pages by a constitutional expert, which was accepted “in good faith”.
A spokesman added: “We declined a request for payment and the author’s background was made clear to our readers.
“The Herald and Times Group was not aware of any payment by Yes Scotland.”
“The Herald confirmed it was offered an article for its opinion pages by a constitutional expert, which was accepted “in good faith”.”
You’re maybe missing the point. It was offered that article EXPRESSLY BY YES SCOTLAND. It’s not like Dr Bulmer sent it in himself, not revealing his sinister Yes Scotland backers.
The fact of the payment is a total red herring. The only issue is whether the connection between YS and Dr Bulmer should have been disclosed, and that’s ENTIRELY in the Herald’s court.
For clarity, here’s the link to Blair Jenkins on Newsdrive:
link to bbc.co.uk from 1.11.20
“I told the Herald about this”
“We drew their (Herald) attention to him”
Jen
Welcome to the cause.
So in this latest smear, what is it that the BBC and Better Together are hoping people will think.
They want people to think that the good Prof. has written something he doesn’t believe , for the princely sum of £100.
There’s not many people stupid enough to swallow that. But what this shows is just how stupid better together and the BBC are.
It all makes one wonder if there is something else going on that they want to distract us from.
Can’t wait to hear Ming ‘Yes-I’m-Still-Here’ Campbell’s statement tomorrow, demanding to know why he was misled, by whom, wherefore and hitherto and whatnot-notwithstanding etc…
I’m fairly sure that there were two articles in the guardian about this earlier today and one of them had comments enabled. Now it’s gone. Maybe severus carol could explain what happened to it? Facts are sacred remember?
We may have to start making up names for these well-placed (and extremely well-placed) sources…
Here’s hoping we don’t have any of that ‘Deep Throat’ vulgarity…chins up and all that.
Boom!
That my friends, was the sound of a crap old car backfiring because it is running on fumes.
@Peter
See comments in previous piece:
http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-morality-of-madland/
annie says:
22 August, 2013 at 9:44 pm
” It all makes one wonder if there is something else going on that they want to
distract us from ”
Was starting to think the same , and as someone else stated on NNS the BBC have not gone low key and quiet but are quite brazen about it……… as if they already know the outcome !
So who in the Scottish media can be trusted?
Even the Herald cannot be trusted. They could have, but did not, have been forthcoming with the full facts of the matter.
You simply cannot trust journalists, they are scum.
There is now a need to expose the journalist at the heart of this matter. NNS should name him.
Hey Thanks, ClydeBuilt
Clydebuilt says:
22 August, 2013 at 9:44 pm
JenWelcome to the cause.
I don’t often comment but I have been reading WoS for a good while, maybe a 1 year and enjoy it. I think the recent WoS survey shows that most people in Scotland don’t trust the MSM and no wonder, with many articles so blatantly treating the reader like they are stupid. Sales of newspapers must be taking a tanking. I just had to comment and say that ordinary folk are not as stupid as they are treating us. I think the outcome of the vote will be surprising for everyone. Hail Alba and let’s get a better future for the people of Scotland.
BBC scotland news are unbelievalby still going hard on this shit.
Is there any way for these biased dickheads to be held responsible for fraudulent reporting?
I’m not too concerned about this, after all the “EU Legal Advice” and “Swinney Document” scandals had the potential to be far more damaging
Am I reading this wrong regarding the Journalist and NNS – but has the person concerned not provided NNS with information , thus their acknowledgement “ The information regarding the Herald did not come from the Herald but from a very reliable source close to this story “
It’s just a daydream, but imagine Menzies Campbell being hauled-up for ‘helping to pervert the course of justice’?
Cor blimey!
No matter that the story is a load of shit, they got it plastered all over the media for 24hrs..job done. Dont expect any retractions, clarifications or the man in the street to be informed.
“No matter that the story is a load of shit, they got it plastered all over the media for 24hrs..job done. Dont expect any retractions, clarifications or the man in the street to be informed.”
But also don’t expect him to give a toss. They’ve been trying this same smear tactic for a year and a quarter now, and it’s achieved nothing. They just don’t have a Plan B.
Will they catch the hackers and prosecute with an appropriate sentence? I don’t think so because it will be hard to catch them and the British Government will “advise” to drop the issue, some technical problem will be discovered.
Ignoring the hacking and brazenly promoting the payment for the article in order to smear the individual and of course the YES Scotland organisation suggests how this will play out.
O/T, I know, but thanks to this site, I’ve just attempted to read a Michael Kelly article in The Hootsman.
I feel bad at giving them a page view, and have a headache after only a couple of paragraphs – not sure if it was the prose or the poison.
However, some of the comments raised the following point: is Michael Kelly one of these “Friends of the Scotsman” who ‘donates’ to be able to write for them? And if he is, how many others are?
Severin. I see he is leading with some story that is effectively Blair McDougall going “I’m telling”. Quite what he will be telling the charities commission is anyone’s guess. Not that it matters. The whole point is to have a headline that suggests that Yes Scotland did something wrong when anyone with an ounce of grey cells can see they did not. Anyone with an ounce of journalistic credibility can see that the story is about dirty tricks hacking, no different from Watergate. A supine compliant media giving Better Together every break possible and still they are slowly losing their grip. Imagine the state they would be in if the Press was 99% on the Yes side.
Also, Severin, if you ever read this, what would you have led on if it had been Yes Scotland that had hacked the No Crowd?
Let’s get real here. Watergate comparisons would be made, demands for arrests, demands for everybody from Salmond to the tea boy to resign. We are not stupid and the hypocrisy stinks. Whatever the result those who have sold their souls to Better Together will never live it down.
@Jen
Hopefully it’s not as easy as that. Remember the police answer to the COPFS, not Westminster.
God help the Yes camp if Burdzeyeview is fighting our corner. Scotlandtonight should be fun.
OH the irony.
Speaking at the Edinburgh International Television Festival this evening, Lord Hall BBC DG says the BBC will find it hard to be impartial over referendum debate.
@gillie
There is now a need to expose the journalist at the heart of this matter. NNS should name him.
No offense, but that is nonsense. The police are investigating it. If they have enough evidence someone will get charged. NNS naming the journalist now would be a disaster.
OH the irony.
Speaking at the Edinburgh International Television Festival this evening, Lord Hall BBC DG says the BBC will find it hard to be impartial over referendum debate.
That really is a “No shit, Sherlock” statement if ever there was one. The dead have noticed it is so blatant.
NNS naming the journalist now would be a disaster.
Yes and could face trouble for stepping on police turf during an investigation as it could prejudice any future trial. On this we have to let the process take its course. The fun will start if any of the Better Together lot are wheeled in for a wee discussion.
Kate Higgins is a plant – end of
@Twenty14
More a concern Troll IMHO.
@Twenty14
Kate Higgins is a plant
What kind – a triffid?
Not a single positive comment from Kate Higgin’s re: Blair Jenkins and Yes Scotland – spook
Thought Blair looked like he had a very hard day and didnt quite nail his point but fair play to STV with their panel, except from that strange mad burd. What is she about?
Slightly off topic but I’ve just witnessed Kate Higgins ‘helpfully’ putting the boot into Blair Jenkins and the YES campaign on Scotland Tonight.
(Is she getting a bung from Better Together I ask myself ??…)
Thankfully the two studio guests quickly reassured viewers that Kate was grossly overreacting and that the main story should be about the hacking itself.
After witnessing her antics tonight I’m done reading her musings. Clearly she believes her opinion is more important than a YES vote.
Rev
You know I’m not missing the point.
All I’ve stated is that Blair Jenkins himself already told radio Scotland newsdrive program that he contacted them himself to offer the article. Please don’t fall into the say trap of the MSM of providing exclusives that are anything but. If you’d exposed that they knew about the £100 then that would be news.
You won’t be doing yourself any favours going done that route, YES the same route as the MSM.
“Please don’t fall into the say trap of the MSM of providing exclusives that are anything but. If you’d exposed that they knew about the £100 then that would be news.”
I’ve lost track of your point.
I have just watched Kate Higgins on Scotland Tonight and I am incandescent with rage. I have suspected for some time, (ever since her hysterical attack on Alex Neil over an issue relating abortion), that Ms Higgins is not all she seems. In short Ms Higgins is no friend of an independent Scotland, her contribution tonight revealed that she is nothing more than an agent provocateur for the NO Scotland campaign. The false flag she carries was unfurled on Scotland Tonight this evening.
Re: Kate Higgins’ blog. I am beginning to think that she is not an indy supporter at all. I left a short comment, don’t know if it will be published or not, but the other few comments were all taking her to task for giving the “bung” angle too much credence. It beggars belief that a true Independence supporter would actually favour the pro-dependency cabal. So, who’s side is she really on?
@Bill C
Watched it and no doubt your right.
Too late to EDIT. I have a screen shot as evidence of my post.
Kate Higgins doesn’t have a chip on her shoulder regarding the SNP, it’s a full on fish supper! I remember her activist days looking to climb the SNP ranks, well the rest is history as they say.
She’ll be the new Jim Sillars.
Big hatchet job on SNP now by Newsnicht.
Rev I sent you a mail through contact a wee while ago.
I posted about Kate Higgins treachery at 5.30 tonight I sincerely hope that WFI let her know she is a liability.
Kate Higgins?
How the fuck can you be outraged about a storm in a teacup?
Is this dame really a pro indy supporter? She’s shiting all over the garden the night?
Bunter.
Its an all out attack from the MSM…..the best form of defence for the Unionists.
Where was the MSM soul searching on Watson or Comrade Joyce ?
Newsflash – Police Scotland are looking into £100 bung to Academic for writing an article in The Herald – ideas of email hacking are academic
Anyone who thought they could get in the trenches with Higgins can think again. She may have been pro indy once but she is convincing no one now.
Thank you, Kate, for your master class in speaking with forked tongue this evening.
Shakespeare’s “I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him” ranks a poor second.
Going by what Jenkins has said, there is more to this hack than just a couple of emails. You dont just shut down a whole system for days for that surely.
Kate Higgins is less than a nobody. I’d never heard of her before last week so do you think any undecideds will care. I don’t.
“Kate Higgins is less than a nobody. I’d never heard of her before last week so do you think any undecideds will care. I don’t.”
What people will hear is “Ooh, even this person introduced as an SNP activist thinks there was something iffy, so there must be”.
Solid performance by Blair Jenkins on Newsnight Scotland tonight. Hacking of YES Scotland IT systems much wider than originally thought. As a result of the faux-outrage over the fee paid to Dr Bulmer, tens of thousands more people now know of Dr Bulmer and the remarkable article he wrote for the Herald – people that otherwise would not have known of the article’s existence and who are now reading it. Their faux-outrage has just backfired on them big time. Let’s hope Police Scotland get these hackers PDQ.
YES Scotland.
I am unsure whether Higgins is so bitter that she never made into the upper levels of the SNP, or whether she actually does not even support independence at all? Higgins does come across as a Unionist, she always seems to want to attack the Yes campaign and the SNP. Whichever one it is I would not trust her as far as I could threw her…
It’s sometimes wise to judge people by the company they keep not what they say.
On Newsnight Blair Jenkins should just say in simple straightforward terms.
We wanted an article on this topic, written by a guy we knew supported independence and we gave him £100 for his time – END OF.
That would have wiped out old Ming who tried to create the impression that the guy had been bunged £100 to write stuff the YES campaign told him to in the form of a planted article. It was not planted the guy WANTED to write it.
Blair in his middle class way, was far too apologetic bumbling and nervous – he needs to learn to straight talk like a punter. And as you say Stuart the Herald were told that it was a YES sponsored article by a YES supporter.
More plain speaking needed to hit MSM attacks on the head
The Guardian´s breaking news still contains this on their front page:
Pro-UK campaign to file complaint over Yes Scotland newspaper payment
The Guardian had this as their breaking news for 72 hours. ”
Andrew Marr ‘very worried’ by tone of Scottish independence debate”
Which shows that some “breaking news” is more breaking than others.
Perhaps the most cynical piece of obfuscation yet from the Scottish media.
Could tonight get any worse – Kaye (with an e) on Sky newspaper review.
And still over a year to go who’d have thunk it.
@annie
She’s looking gey tired – overdoing things, perhaps?
First I’ve come across the Higgins wifey – Jesus fuck!
Attention-seeking, self-appointed spokesperson for … eh, who exactly? If you took the transcript of her contribution, cut out the lame ‘I’m a nat’ justification and got Alistair Darling to read it out it would be entirely unsurprising. I beg anyone following her on Twitter or Facebook or who even occasionally looks at her blog to desist immediately. The lassie feeds on her own sense of self-importance (God knows where she gets that from). The internet equivalent of an empty room is all she deserves.
“First I’ve come across the Higgins wifey – Jesus fuck!”
Quite heartwarming to see the number of people tonight coming out on Twitter etc and going “Blimey, Wings old fruit, thought you were being harsh before before but you were right about her all along”. Not heartwarming enough to make up for the damage the clown did to 12 months of campaigning in five minutes, but a small consolation.
Cynical Highlander – if you look at Kate Higgins twitter account you will see the company she keeps – John Ruddy, Euan McColm to name but two.
Kaye with an E…..Is she being paid ? I think we should be told !
Re Higgins what was it that Obama said about “lipstick” again?
And Kate Higgins needs to get a grip – maybe she is upset with Jenkins and YES for some reason and in the comments she made at the end of the STV piece you could almost hear her wanting to say the referendum is lost and the sharp suits in the YES leadership are to blame.
She is very indignant about the Bulmer issue maybe in her eyes it it more a case of it not being a mistake per se – because it was not – But an error on the part of the YES leadership by not being able to see how the matter could be so easily manipulated by MSM/Bitter Together. If so she needed to make that distinction clear.
If Kate wants to put in her tuppence worth about YES do it CONFIDENTIALLY and to the right people especially Nicola Sturgeon. But please do not provide a ready supply of ammunition to the Unionists
Buchanan is good on Newsnight – straight question then let the guest answer. I don’t like the cult of the news presenter.
Unsurprisingly the programme was actually very dull – as their is no story!
Alert someone just hacked into my computer. Earlier post – there not their!! Closing down system.
Just seeing on Sky newspaper review – Britain has a Middle East internet surveillance site could it have been the “Establishment” who hacked Yes Scotland? Will we ever know?
I have a confession to make; I think Raymond Buchanan is a decent guy. I was reading WoS Twitter, and I see Higgins tweeting that she is very disappointed that she has not being accused of being a ("Quizmaster" - Ed) tonight. What is she on, and what is she trying to achieve?
Kate Higgins Tweeted tonight that she was disappointed not to be called a ("Quizmaster" - Ed) or a ("Tractor" - Ed).
I offered to do it for £100 as long as she didn’t tell the Herald.
I haven’t had a reply!
So, can we finally dispense with the comforting bedside tale that the media will give us a fair hearing?
And ignore Kate Higgins – she will have as much effect on the result of the referendum as Johann Lamont will on the campaign for plain English.
Kate Higgins is she a descendant of James Hamilton The 4th Duke of Hamilton by any chance?
link to en.wikipedia.org
If nothing else recent events have shown us that the phoney war is over.
Lines are clearly being drawn and those with a dog in the fight are exposing their true colours.
Who’d have thunk it merely a week ago that the sephologist apologist would have given a fair critique of the first WoS poll, that the black ops brigade would already be exposed hacking the YES campaign, that an English BBC journalist would take Scotlands Darling to task on his scaremongering unionist lies, and that a certain Burd would publicly declare for the Better Together mob.
After the smoke from the opening salvos lift we can see our opponents much more clearly, and they’re not necessarily who we thought they’d be.
Higgins has had it in for Jenkins for a few months now – she wrote a blog in January criticising him, basically wanting him to step aside and let a politician head the campaign instead (which is exactly what BetterTogether want, as they can’t handle non-politicians).
link to burdzeyeview.wordpress.com
The funniest line is the last one, delivered without a shred of irony, I’m sure: “And if he wants to be afforded his place in Scottish political history, he needs to keep his focus and his eyes on the prize.”
Oh wow. Talk about ignoring your own advice…
I offered to do it for £100 as long as she didn’t tell the Herald.
I haven’t had a reply!
Now that is funny 🙂
I have no idea who Higgins is but going by the above I think I will simply avoid,
Just a thought – was Kate Higgins only invited onto Scotland Tonight because she was “anti” in earlier tweets – did she receive a payment?
Kate Higgins was always a disaster waiting to happen.
Constructive criticism is healthy, Kate Higgins is not. No doubt she will view this comment as bullying.
@Annie – In answer to your questions YES and NO.
Seriously we are now at stage 3 i.e. “then they come to fight you”. The Brit. Establishment are now upping a gear and the hacking may well have come from a Brit. facility ‘abroad’. The Record seems to think that the hackers are based abroad. I would doubt if the hackers will be identified. Although Blair Jenkins was hinting late on in his Newsnight interview that something even more sinister was taking place, so who knows?
Stu: “Quite heartwarming to see the number of people tonight coming out on Twitter etc and going “Blimey, Wings old fruit, thought you were being harsh before before but you were right about her all along”. Not heartwarming enough to make up for the damage the clown did to 12 months of campaigning in five minutes, but a small consolation.”
Indeed, Twitter was absolutely full of people criticising her performance, even from folk who I’ve always thought were rather more moderate indy supporters. Even some of her Twinner friends! (Not Hothersall or Smart, natch…)
If raising awareness of The Herald & attracting a few extra pages views was their side objective, then they probably succeeded.
That they created a story about a non story that they think damages the YES/SNP is neither here nor there because the poll commissioned by this website suggested that the majority of folks who read newspapers like The Herald don’t trust what they publish anyway.
But that rag & the rest of the Unionist media can’t help themselves because there is simply no alternative, positive narrative for remaining in a union with England that they can print.
It’s like shooting blank bullets at an enemy who are hunkered down in a trench. You have nothing else to use but it feels good taking aim & firing. That no one on the other side ever gets injured doesn’t seem to matter. It’s how it makes you feel that’s important.
That’s why Gardham prints this type of shite in the Herald because he probably gets a huge boner from reading his own propaganda despite hardly anyone believing the rubbish he prints.
Paying a respected author and academic a very small fee for a piece of work is hardly news and I am gob smacked that the media have got as many column inches out of it as they have. I am fully expecting no more money to change hands for any published pieces in newspapers from here on.
However!…….the hacking story is still there. WTF are they going to use as the squirrel de jour to cover their arses for the time it will take Police Scotland to complete their enquiries. What if they want to search No Scotland’s HQ? question officials there? speak to Blair McDougall?
Oh what will their poor servants in the press do then?
Day 1 of the MI5 campaign?
It is normal practice for anyone being interviewed/taking part in talks by Broadcasters to receive a remuneration. Interesting to find out if KH waived her fee?
“It is normal practice for anyone being interviewed/taking part in talks by Broadcasters to receive a remuneration.”
Varies, no hard-and-fast rule. I’ve sometimes been paid for doing BBC stuff, sometimes not.
I tell you if Police Scotland come up with names of culprits then we have a real story. Hacking an organisation involved in the biggest debate in the last 300 years of Scottish history is a huge deal. This could run for weeks!
The No to Scotland campaign may have made a massive blunder. I personally suspect they have nothing to do with the hacking, but they are now involved by not immediately condemning the crime.
Oh what will their poor servants in the press do then?
Fuck all as per!
@The Rev – “What people will hear is “Ooh, even this person introduced as an SNP activist thinks there was something iffy, so there must be”.
Absolutely spot on, that’s what agent provocateurs get paid for. In this case, a bit more than a hundred quid I should think! They get paid by the amount of damage done to the enemy. The twitter tripe about her being called a ("Quizmaster" - Ed) etc. is nothing more than an invite for more of the same please. That way the NO Scotland mob get to measure how successful she has been in sowing dissension in the nationalist ranks. Pretty crude, but the good news is, she has blown her cover with an over egged performance tonight. A point I think Harry Reid picked up on. Best to either ignore her or treat her with contempt from now on.
Think I just might tweet Kate and ask her if she was paid for tonights performance
The No to Scotland campaign may have made a massive blunder. I personally suspect they have nothing to do with the hacking, but they are now involved by not immediately condemning the crime.
They did condemn it immediately. The media just haven’t got round to fabricating the condemnations yet. They’ll make them up if they need to later. No rush!
The most unhappy person in Scotland tonight could be KH, if it were not for all those suffering from poverty, neglect and abuse!
“The most unhappy person in Scotland tonight could be KH”
She doesn’t have that much self-doubt.
rabb
Ha yes indeed. The power to write tomorrow’s news two days after it happened.
@ Rev
Not referring to any example in particular, closet unionists have always been a ‘feature’ in the independence movement. They seem to think it is the clever thing to do. Just to see what it felt like, I tried the opposite once, went on a unionist forum pretending to be pro-union but ‘had a few questions and doubts’ . Lasted one evening after which I felt thoroughly defiled and could not repeat the exercise.
Re email hacking, does WOS have a snail mail P.O. box number? If not, might be worth thinking about.
ChicMcGregor – snail mail isn’t that defeating the purpose – they can hack all they like but they can not stop the message getting out.
Re snail mail, MI5 have an i7 steam kettle. 🙂
If Tony Blair was a CIA plant why shouldn’t there be lots of plants in the SNP? But having met KH as a young lassie I don’t think she was. Just ambitious.
I think all the long campaigning SNP activists who’ve worked for decades to win the vote for independence will be spitting fire and kicking TVs out the window because of a stupid bitch who cannot see an open goal when she sees one, of suspected illegality from our opponents, and instead turns round and pisses all over her colleagues over a piddly £100 fee. She has no concept of perspective. No wonder she failed in politics.
If she ever comes on my screen again, the channel will change. I think we need a swap deal for Henry McLeish before the transfer window closes…..
Jamie: agree with everything you say, but can we try to avoid the b-word? It’s ugly, and just giving people ammunition. Don’t mind people letting loose the odd expletive, but that’s one of those words that just never sounds appropriate.
Its all getting a bit difficult for the No campaign isn’t it – the Yes side have to provide the non-stories, we may have to ‘man’ their stalls at fairs and probably have to throw them a few ideas as to how to involve people in a genuine campaign, I don’t know how much longer we can take them seriously (I know we don’t anymore).
I don’t think she’s a unionist. I think she’s an idiot. An idiot who lacks the self-awareness to critique her own opinions and feelings.
“I don’t think she’s a unionist. I think she’s an idiot. An idiot who lacks the self-awareness to critique her own opinions and feelings.”
Yeah. If she’s a No-camp plant then she’s a complete genius, and I don’t think she’s a genius.
@Rev Stu
Do you think she supports independence?
Been thinking for some time now, that Kate Higgins was out to wreck the referendum. She’s getting her face on the telly more & more since she started slagging off the SNP, or Alex Salmond, & now, the YES campaign.
Maybe we have found the MOLE in the yes camp That Margo MacDonald was on about.
Jamie Arriere – funny! But remember Galloway. They’s not for changing! Too many years of hatred for the SNP. They are truly now the anti SNP party!
Someone posted on the Scotsman.Deliberate?
Morag – You of all people should know!
@Etrigen
“Re snail mail, MI5 have an i7 steam kettle.”
🙂 Many years ago I got on the Scotsman short list for a new cartoonist with a cartoon of Malcolm Rifkind steaming open letters with a kettle (story was current at that time).
However, with a few easy precautions, snail mail still provides a method whereby the anonymity of the sender can be preserved. A consideration which may well influence whether the information/documents/evidence/donation etc. is sent at all.
😉
It would appear that Ms Higgins has had some success in attempting to sow dissension within the YES campaign tonight. A very able, eloquent and influential member of Women for Independence has posted support for Ms Higgins on her website tonight. Tonight has been damaging to the YES campaign, not because of anything Blair Jenkins and his team have done, but because of a rather amateurish agent provocateur. I think lessons need to be learned that we are not involved in an ordinary political campaign here, this is a fight for the heart and soul of Scotland. It will become ugly, messy and perhaps violent, it is a struggle which Scotland cannot afford to lose. It is time to waken up to the fact, that if we are serious about taking our country back, we should realise that we are up against a British Establishment who are experts in propaganda and dirty tricks. Events of the last couple of days will hopefully be a wake up call and alert us all to the forces ranged against us.
Just a quick tip for anyone going to the rally in September. If you need the toilet or fancy a drink or burger, go before Kate Higgins speaks. The queue’s are supposedly going to be murder when she’s on.
I like to look at it this way, its rather heartening that amongst all of Yes Scotland’s emails this is the only thing they could spin a smear out of. Paying a guy £100 quid for his work.
Anyone care to guess at the horrors that live in #ProjectFears inbox?
@ The Rev -“Yeah. If she’s a No-camp plant then she’s a complete genius, and I don’t think she’s a genius.” You are right, she’s not a genius, just cannon fodder.
Watching Scotland Tonight and the shenanigans brought back to mind a question my daughter once asked me .”What did we eat before pasta came along ?” Mince.
What a pity that for the first time ever that I can remember there were 3 pro Indy (4 if you count Blair on before )commentators on STV . What a wasted opportunity .
When Rona starts quoting The Daily Record as a reliable source , the viewer knows they’re in trouble but as Aidan (spot on ), the night before succinctly asked , “how do you know Rona, how do you know ? Perhaps a little less mince lifted from other sources and a few more incisive questions about the role of the Herald would have clarified things.
Afterall, Harry and Kate Higgins both write for the Herald but heyho thats Scottish Journalism for you.
Muttley – she’s definitely a genuine independence supporter (at the moment anyway…), her behaviour tonight – and on other occasions that have caused folk to question her motives – is strictly down to an over-inflated sense of her own importance. She doesn’t go on TV as “Kate Higgins: independence supporter”, she goes on as “Kate Higgins: superstar blogger” (or so she thinks, anyway). She’s not going on these programmes to further the case for or against independence, she’s going on to further her own profile. The media has her pegged as someone who can be relied on to criticise the Yes campaign while insisting that they’re a Yes supporter, and – consciously or subconsciously – she’s not about to do anything to damage that.
She’s one of these people that thinks getting praise from the opposite side of the political spectrum means you’re a great writer who can rise above petty partisanship, when the reality is people just like seeing their enemy being slagged off by their own side. When this type of person receives criticism from “fellow travellers”, they put it down to “people not liking it when I don’t toe the line”, “I’m not afraid to speak my mind” etc, rather than having the self-awareness to realise that maybe – just maybe – they’re simply wrong. So they end up putting all their faith in the opinions of people who actually want their over-arching goal to fail, and totally ignore the criticisms of those who are on the same side – and if you want to keep receiving that praise, you have to write for that audience (and it’s what people tend to do quite naturally).
So she’s certainly pro-independence, although I know there are several people (myself included) who would not be at all surprised to see her become only the second person in history to go from supporting independence to supporting the union (Brian Wilson being the first). You can even picture the sort of pious, self-important article she’d come out with explaining why the change of heart is in fact totally consistent with her “real” aims of blah blah blah.
Secret unionist? No. Self-obsessed idiot who has completely lost focus of what really matters? Yes.
@Doug
Yes, I get what you are saying about her sense of her own importance. However, I also think Higgins is very bitter about the fact that she did not make a real impact in the SNP, in terms of being a leading politician. I get the distinct impression she hates the leadership of the SNP, particularly Salmond.
There’s certainly a possibility of that, but I can’t say for sure as I don’t know her pre-blogging history – I think I read she was a councillor for a while and has stood unsuccessfully for elections, but that’s it. However, from the things I’ve heard from SNP members who have crossed paths with her throughout the years, it wouldn’t strike me as being surprising in the slightest.
I don’t know much about Kate Higgins, but my impression after reading about her over the past day, is that she is Better Togethers’ ‘Useful Idiot’
I hope she is proud of herself.
We have all paid Rev to write pieces and we are all part of the YES campaign!
There certainly seems to be a feeding frenzy in progress – totally unwarranted in my view, but the media are doing their utmost to manufacture consent.
How about a poll question that asks “on a scale of 0-10, rank the following events in terms of importance
Paying an academic to write an article, expressing an opinion he already publicly holds
Serial “flipping” 3 houses for personal profit at public expense
Accepting cash donations to have lobbyist’s questions aired in Parliament
.,.”
Well you get the idea – I’m too annoyed to come up with a comprehensive list of recent political scandals.
Thing is, the whole thing is being grotesquely inflated, in an attempt to con people into believing it is significant.
When we achieve Independence, I sincerely hope that people will not forget the conduct of the media and the muck-raking scum of the Better Together campaign.
Whatever the result Gizzit, it will not be forgotten.
Isn’t all this KH debacle a symptom of the relative dearth of intelligent women in this debate? I’m not denigrating women by the way, my wife is the smartest person I know. It just seems there’s so few women in the referendum spotlight. Of course it could be down to the fact that most of the women I do hear speak on this subject hold predominantly pro-independence views And that’s something the MSM and Better Together just can’t allow. Just a thought.
“Can’t wait to hear Ming ‘Yes-I’m-Still-Here’ Campbell’s statement tomorrow,”
What? no? you cant?
you cant-mean-MING THE MEANINGLESS IS BACK da da daaaa rolls eyes in terror
Just throwing some random thoughts out there.
If I was an M15 operative I would be very interested in Kate Higgins.
She tried and failed to make at as a Nationalist Politician, so I would want to explore the possibility that she felt resentful.
A psychological profile would be done on her (she wouldn’t know this was happening) and if they found she was a woman who needed approval and to feel important, she would easily become a puppet on a string.
It’s sad, but she may not even know that she is the useful idiot, but will just be following her instinct for approval and feeling important.
The fact she was wheeled out and made such an attack on Yes now, might even suggest that the security services have used her as a human shield.
As I say, just thinking aloud.
“I’m ordinary gal not a political anorak but the whole of Scotland must feel like me and screaming “hey journo, I am not that STUPID”. I feel frustration with them all.”
Sadly I feel some people ARE, and its they the cynical people at the BBC/BT are playing to,
just listening to conversations on occasion at work that relentless negativity is having the effect in a subliminal kind of way
and the only way to snap these people out of this fugue is to get one to one with them, and figuratively speaking slap them until they wake up, which once engaged is not all that hard to do thankfully
correction, stupid isn’t the word I would use, its uninformed
Nah… she’s just a numpty!
The Severin article has been updated again, third draft. Now instead of an Alex Salmond image we have Elliot Bulmer, still no commenting of course.
Did the original with the comments get saved anywhere?
@Twenty14“Kate Higgins is a plant What kind – a triffid?”
I was thinking more that irritating wee weed that when you pull it out its seeds explode out and get you in the eye
“Here’s hoping we don’t have any of that ‘Deep Throat’ vulgarity…chins up and all that.”
in my best Frankie Howard voice
Oooh well I never
oooh no mrs no
whatever next
@Albalha
Not that I’m aware of. I popped back to the cross border piece and dropped in a punt for the Rev to keep people updated. I’d chatted with two or three others post collapse of thread last night and guessed that mibbies a few more may have pulled back to there.
Anyone on Faceache or Twotter know how the most recent revelation is going down? Now that the bung angle is blown and the Herald aren’t looking too clever I’d imagine more than one or two of the opposition felt like hiding back under their rocks.
“Solid performance by Blair Jenkins on Newsnight Scotland tonight. ”
Sorry to disagree but I felt his response was poor, it came over as a fair cop guv we wont do it again,
Its in scenarios like this I question, not the mans abilities but his suitability for the job, It was seen at the time of him being offered the job as he was an everyman who had no political allegiance so the yes camp couldn’t be seen as a front for the SNP ,
now heaven forbid we should have someone like Blair McDougall but the yes campaign needs to be fronted up by a street fighter,
anybody know Henry Mcleish’s telephone number?
On a happier note… less than £300 short of £6000… lets get it over that milestone 🙂
link to indiegogo.com
I wonder if the Herald know about this secretive underhanded financing by YES campaigners? …and if they do, how come they have not mentioned it? Hmmm?
“Alert someone just hacked into my computer. Earlier post – there not their!! Closing down system.”
Thats Not A Hacker
This Is A Hacker 🙂
@macart
I still have my comment in my profile posted just before it was taken down, basically saying the Herald should be questioned, as by then Blair J had made very clear on Newsdrive that they approached the Herald with the idea.
Still no idea why the first article had all comments disappeared, I reckon that’s some sort of breach, mmm.
“Day 1 of the MI5 campaign? ”
That’s what I thinks as well, and it means noone will ever be taken to task for that attack
btw I don’t think it was day one, I think they’ve been involved for many years
“Absolutely spot on, that’s what agent provocateurs get paid for. In this case,”
what is the current exchange rate for thirty pieces of silver?
This was the comment, I think the overwrite appeared at 6:53pm, all very odd. These bloody newspapers are a law unto themselves and treat their readers like idiots. Anyway think I’ll have a go at complaining.
Albalha commented on Pro-UK campaign to file complaint over Yes Scotland newspaper payment.
22 Aug 2013 6:51pm
2
The Herald knew the piece had been commissioned by YES Scotland, paid or not is irrelevant, so why didn’t the newspaper make that clear? Did the Herald ask if they could and were refused? Doubt it.
The hacking is clearly the real story but maybe columnists should be asking the Herald about their procedures since they’re so keen on that angle.
It’s rather poor show the Herald doesn’t pay contributors.
“I think we need a swap deal for Henry McLeish before the transfer window closes…..”
Ha, great minds think alike!
“The media has her pegged as someone who can be relied on to criticise the Yes campaign while insisting that they’re a Yes supporter, and – consciously or subconsciously – she’s not about to do anything to damage that.”
Could she be Norsewarrior’s wee sister?
You have to be concerned about WFI if Kate Higgins is seen by the media as their de facto spokesperson. How are you going to convince women to vote YES when this person is behaving like a fifth columnist. Time to eject such people out in the cold. It is better to have them sniping from the side lines than planting bombs in the middle.
A statement from WFI is now needed on this matter.
Women For Independence funding principles:
We are an open and diverse network of women who support independence for Scotland and will work with others for a Yes vote in the referendum.
We will ensure that there will be a space for women’s voices and interests in the campaign.
Independence will create opportunities for women to engage in developing a fully democratic vision for Scotland’s future. Women should play a central role in achieving independence.
Does the WFI believe that Kate Higgins has been defending those principles as demonstrated on Scotland Tonight?
Anyone know how we can find out about the number of complaints made to the BBC about its news stories in general,
you’ll no doubt find that the number of complaints has gone up by a quantum leap,
that figure, should we be able to get it would be a powerful reason for the ODIHR to take this issue seriously enough to invite themselves to the party rather than wait for an rsvp from Westminster,
Im sure they involved themselves in Iceland without the invitation of the Icelandic government
@Albalha
Ditto, comment still logged in profile. No comment as yet from Guardian about the closed thread, but clearly after the Revs chat with Mr Carrell and the sequence of releases by WoS and NNS they at least had the opportunity to put things on hold and slightly change their stance.
As for those media bastards who queued up to attack Blair Jenkins, the YES campaign and Elliot Bulmer on the stupidest, contrived, bullshit I’ve seen in quite some time? Well they’ve been left with a whole omelette on their face after this. McDougall looks an even bigger fool than normal and his hangers on and online admirers at project fear should have the look of rabbits trapped in headlights by now. The other shoe will drop on this vis a vis the hacking. They will find out who. They will find out Why and they will find out who attempted to benefit directly. Project fear is in for a bumpy ride.
link to womenforindependence.org
Is this the same person as we saw on Scotland Tonight?
There must be many independence supporters this morning trying to figure out who is the real Kate Higgins.
BBC going big on Walker this morning but I don’t recall them taking Labour to task on what they knew about Steven Purcell when they denied events for over a week.
@Linda’sBack
At least Linda Fabiani is doing a decent job saying the names Eric Joyce and fireraiser Lord Mike Watson as often as she can.
In totally unrelated news, apparently London’s beauty therapists are up in arms now that they have found out we are doing Brazilians for nothing.
Interesting that London BBC seem to be very quiet over the attempted smear over Dr Bulmer and Yes Scotland and havent noticed a thing on the potential huge hacking scandal. They must be leaving their northern outpost to deal with the dirty stuff . Morale must be good at Pacific Quay, a NO means you keep your job but with reputation trashed, a YES means yer oot the door. They as individuals have an alternative though, but its up to them.
Left this on the NNS article about the furore, not sure it will pass moderation
The “so-called” pro-independence blogger has brought herself into some disrepute by her exaggerated claims on her blog and twitter account. The expression, “with friends like these …” comes to mind.The issue of the nominal fee (it was £100 FFS) has been inflated to try and deflect readers and listeners from the serious criminal activity of hacking the YES Scotland computers. That allegedly pro-independence supports have gone along with this charade is a sad day in the campaign for me.Know your enemy. It might not always be who you think it is.
At the risk of contradicting my own advice about ignoring the attention-seeking Higgins, we can let her know exactly what we think of her contribution last night at the rally on the 21st (if by some miracle she is still on the speaking programme).
Thousands of people turning their backs in silence should convey a clear message.
I’m afraid I don’t know/never heard of Kate Higgins. I think I’ll leave it that way.
Kat Higgins : shocking performance !!!!! get her off of speaking to media as of now
Complete loose cannon to the cause. NUMPTY (is she CURRAN in disguise ??)
Most damage done in recent issue was by her. Is she a suppoerter of Independence ?? I have my doubts now -Icould not share aplatform with this woman. Damaging character : cast her to the fornges please.
I used to read her blog and comment occasionally, but I took a bit of a dislike to her and sort of wandered off to more congenial pastures.
LETS GET SOMEONE ON CALL KAYE -RETALIATION STARTS TODAY 1
The Severin article has been updated again, third draft. Now instead of an Alex Salmond image we have Elliot Bulmer, still no commenting of course.
Did the original with the comments get saved anywhere?
Yup I’ve still got it in a browser window, time-stamped 18:39, which is less than 15 minutes before they pulled it as far as I can make out. I’ve had no joy saving it as a complete page, but I have screen-shots of the lot, which I sent to Stu last night as a pdf. So it ain’t lost.
Hmmm. Maybe I’ll sent a wee story of my own to the WFI page. They don’t seem to have many.
@Training Day-
‘Thousands of people turning their backs in silence should convey a clear message.’
Aye. And the raising of every kilt on the hill would make it even clearer.
@Morag
Cheers, good news it’s not lost. I’ve never known an article and its comments to vanish, even if there are alterations/corrections to the body of the original piece as in this case. They often close an article to more comments but those posted up to that point remain in place.
The DR is like a dog with a bone regards the bedroom tax and huge embarrassment for Labour in todays edition. Not changed my mind on them but fair do’s
I’ve been following the debate for a while, but I’ve probably missed a few things: nonetheless, this Higgins palaver is the first time I’ve seen real dissent in the Yes camp, compared to the multiple ones in the No camp. If I’m mistaken I apologise, but I took a lot of pride in the idea that the Yes camp, while having many differences of opinion, never really tried to sabotage their mutual aims before.
@Doug Daniel:Higgins has had it in for Jenkins for a few months now – she wrote a blog in January criticising him, basically wanting him to step aside and let a politician head the campaign instead (which is exactly what BetterTogether want, as they can’t handle non-politicians).
link to burdzeyeview.wordpress.com
The funniest line is the last one, delivered without a shred of irony, I’m sure: “And if he wants to be afforded his place in Scottish political history, he needs to keep his focus and his eyes on the prize.”
“If he wants to be afforded his place in Scottish political history.” I think that’s a particularly illuminating phrase. Isn’t the point of Scottish independence to offer a better, fairer, more equal Scotland? To get away from the selfish interests of career politicians who go into politics to make money or a name for themselves?
I, for one, don’t care about independence in order to be “afforded a place in history,” I care about independence because I believe it’s the right thing to do. If I were in Jenkins’ place, I wouldn’t care a bean about my place in history, in fact I would happily be forgotten by history if it meant making the future a better place. I’m immediately suspicious of anyone who thinks of this referendum as a way to gain popularity points, and Higgins (here and elsewhere) has said things to that effect.
Kate who?
Now I’m not a politician but even I know that if we all went about speaking our mind the streets would be strewn with burning cars, people would be looting shops with dead bodies everywhere. It would be fucking carnage people!
Sometimes in life we need to look at the bigger picture, bite our lips and crack on with it.
Kate, please put your ego aside, bite your lip and crack on with it.
A lot of new people to the political game are angry that in the space of 5 minutes last night you’ve jeopardised a years worth of hard work pounding streets delivering leaflets, manning street stalls and knocking on doors.
Think about it!!
Taranaich
I think the difference is that in the No camp you have the uncomfortable nexus of Tories and Labour together, Gordon as a former PM setting up his own independence campaign (whatever happened to that?) and Former FMs like McLeish and some senior Conservatives criticising the negativity of the No campaign. I have never heard of Kate Higgins and she holds no position in Yes Scotland that I am aware of. She says she wants independence and that is good but clearly she has her own agenda. This happens in any and every political campaign. It would be different if Alex, Nicola or Jenkins were at loggerheads and sniping at each other but I think most people in Scotland will be in my position and say “Kate Higgins?” Of course if the BBC think they can fill their balance quota by taking on board a “pro-independence supporter” that is off message they willl. It is one of their favourite ploys. It can bite them on the bum though because sometimes these individuals suddenly remember why they are in a particular camp and set about the opposition wiith a vengence.
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Is this new ??
“Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Is this new ??”
No. What’s new is you mistyping your own name so Akismet thought you were a new commenter 😀
Thanks for the tip Etrigan (1.30 am).
My first thought had been to take a comfort break during Kate Higgins.
Normally I would cheer and clap the speakers, now I think I will just zip my mouth and put my hands in my pockets when she is on.
On call you know who. Given she was not in the seat again today thought I’d check if she was presenting on another channel, sure enough there she is fronting the Wright Stuff. This is going head to head with the BBC Scotland phone in, which is her main job as a freelance.
Can you imagine John Humphrys being allowed to present the ITV morning show at the same time as the Today programme? The idea this is, presumably, written into her contract is highly questionable.
Call Kay e on Wright Stuff doing Egg Miliband ”should he go”. Knives are out, the whole panel says aye and so do the callers.
Kate Higgins is from Stranraer where her father Robert is an SNP councillor and has been for about 20 years. Kate was also an SNP councillor for Stranraer circa 1997 when I joined the Castle Douglas SNP branch. In about 1999 she was a member of the SNP National Executive Committee as ‘Organiser’. I was a Branch Convenor at the time and the assumption was that Kate would go on to become a important/ influential SNP person. Kate is currently Policy and Communications Manager for Chidlren 1st (was SSPCC). Kate has an MA Honours in Modern History from St. Andrews University (1989).
So now everyone knows who she is!
@H&S
Well said. The fact that Kate doesn’t seem to see this, or has her own agenda if she does see it, rather speaks volumes. As I said, “with friends like these …”
@ Alistair Livingston, can you tell me what happened that she never became influential within the SNP, was there some sort of problem with them?
One thing Kate Higgins has guaranteed is she’ll be on oor tellies performing her Usefull Idiot act every night till the referendum.
@BBCScotlandshire
“No bungs, no crowdfunding, no hacked emails”
I’m sure it was unintended association, but I wouldn’t include ‘crowdfunding’ in a list with the other two. There is a fundamental difference – a little thing called ‘democracy’.
@Clydebuilt
In which case for wee Kate – job done? What will she gain if Scots say NO? I think she, and a lot of others, have not yet woken up to the fact that this is not an ordinary election, it isn’t even an ordinary referendum. We are not deciding on some relatively trivial aspect of a law, we are deciding the fate of a nation.
I feel very angry about this,although I know it does no good, so I won’t write what I really want to. But for the love of god, will people please wake up to what is going on here.
I actually feel a bit sorry for anodyne android Ed. I am sure there was a spark of a radical in there once before the focus groups and policy wonks shoved him a management consultant’s suit and briefed the imagination out of him. Every time I see him I think of that catatonic interview where all he could say was I “What I say is, these strikes are wrong”. They have picked a fine time to panic over the possibility that he isn’t going to rally the voters behind Labour. I think the long knives could be out. He will either clear out the Blairites or the knives will turn on him but either way it will look like the night of the long knives.
Interesting similarity in questions to Blair on Scotland tonight and news night Scotland. They couldn’t have been supplied by BT for free, could they?
annie says:
22 August, 2013 at 11:37 pm
Could tonight get any worse – Kaye (with an e) on Sky newspaper review.
I thought Kay with an E was on holiday. She’s in London , what’s she doing down there?, being brushing up on her interrogation technique?
If she was in any doubt that she was off message last night Kate Higgins must know now – she actually had a Labour MSP congratulate her on twitter even though he admitted he hadn’t seen the programme.
@bunter
“Call Kay e on Wright Stuff doing Egg Miliband ”should he go”. Knives are out, the whole panel says aye and so do the callers”
Keeping Ed is plan A for the controlling corrupta, that’s all that matters.
Let’s keep the ‘damage’ done to the convinced YES voters in perspective – it will matter not a whit to them what KH thinks or says and we already know the YES vote is well ahead and will stay that way.
The main impact will be on a tiny section of ‘don’t knows’ who blow like chaff in the wind and are totally volatile in terms of where their vote, if at all, will be placed – so no loss there then.
The NO camp are in huge trouble already and this will give them some psychological comfort, but they are too busy keeping their arses just out of reach of the crocodiles in the swamp of their own making that any comfort will be very short lived and will comedown with an almighty bang if the boys in blue have the cojones to do them for hacking.
All in all, there’s an object lesson in this for Blair Jenkins that there was an opportunity wasted to get right into his opponents jugular and that is an important miss. We will not get many of these and they must be taken hard and fast. The atmosphere is changing daily as the ‘war’ tactics of BT become more extreme. Has he got the stomach for the fray? I hope he can handle what’s coming as effectively as he has handled the ‘phony wars’ till now. If not he should step aside.
Kate Higgins is unhappy with the Yes campaign.She’s certainly entitled to her opinion,but its not shared by many.Sure,you come across people who think Yesscotland should be doing more or doing things differently,but they tend to be people who haven’t grasped the fact that WE are the campaign.They tend to be people who hang about waiting for someone else to deliver independence.
Polls seem to show that women are more unsure than men when it comes to supporting independence. It makes sense for the No side to exploit that issue.
Having a woman cause ‘friction’ on the Yes side is an obvious move for them. Useful idiot or willing player?
Barontorc
Excellent post. All of us who have made the jump to Yes are in no way going to be backtracked by this episode. We are all clever enough to see this for what it is.
After all, we have played a part in initiating this; the Rev’s measured investigative journalism, our informed debate, our crowd-funded polling, our ability to organise country wide meetings etc. All hallmarks of a very potent and focussed grassroots organisation having a profound impact in a short space of time. Are we not taking the fight to them and they are shown to be lacking? Were it not this way we would have cause to worry. The more days there are like yesterday the better, it merely confirms that we are doing the right thing. Bring it on.
Ms Higgins I think has had enough free publicity here now, let’s not do her job for her.
Kate who?
I have only just gotten around to reading this thread and was amused at Rabb’s suggestion that Kate Higgins sets her ego aside. Now there’s a job for some strong men.
I had never heard of Kate Higgins nor, even yet, read anything by her or seen her interview. Her apparent renown is one of the biggest personal surprises for me this week.
Juteman
Useful idiot or willing player?
If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck…
Apolgolies, Aplologies, Appleologies ……..
Och ….Sorry – Rev
Its just that Kate Higgins … did ma’ nut in last night on the box.
What a stoater .. she is
Did anyone hear Marcus Gardham on B Taylor show ? What a weasel ……….
Said there was no deception going on,
but he didn’t think Yes should pay for stories.
What he wouldn’t answer was a query of how the ‘hacker’ new to go in and look for the very specific email account where the Bulmer payment was discussed at YES headquarters, as he said it was for his employers to comment on that.
The hint is in that they new Prof Bulmer liked getting ‘costs paid’ for his stories but they weren’t prepared to pay. So 2+2 (Bulmer & YES), who then hinted to the kacking community that this might be something worth unearthing ?? Oh now thats stetching it. (Is it)
@HandandShrimp: I think the difference is that in the No camp you have the uncomfortable nexus of Tories and Labour together, Gordon as a former PM setting up his own independence campaign (whatever happened to that?) and Former FMs like McLeish and some senior Conservatives criticising the negativity of the No campaign.
That makes a lot of sense (even if there’s functionally less distinguishment between the Tories and Labour than the SNP and the other pro-indy parties at this point)
@Barontorc: The main impact will be on a tiny section of ‘don’t knows’ who blow like chaff in the wind and are totally volatile in terms of where their vote, if at all, will be placed – so no loss there then.
That’s what concerns me, too. No Yes voter is going to change their mind based on this kerfuffle, but the Don’t Knows are a different matter – and the Don’t Knows are the ones who’ll win this thing.
All in all, there’s an object lesson in this for Blair Jenkins that there was an opportunity wasted to get right into his opponents jugular and that is an important miss. We will not get many of these and they must be taken hard and fast.
I disagree, I think there will be plenty of opportunities. I think – hope? – that when Yes finally bare their teeth and go for the kill, it will be fairly late in the campaign, and be so utterly devastating that the No side will be completely incapable of recovering. A deathly blow now gives them the possibility to recover over a year; a deathly blow months or weeks before the election will be the killing bite.
@mealer: She’s certainly entitled to her opinion
She’s only entitled to an informed opinion. Anyone can have an opinion on anything, but such opinions are worthless unless they’re based on thoughtful examination and sufficient knowledge.
EDIT: REFERENDUM NOT ELECTION ARGH I HATE IT WHEN THAT HAPPENS
Someone on NNS commented that they asked a Labour activist when they first knew about the hacked email an they responded on the 12th August!
This was on the Guardians comments section and it has since been pulled.
Who is this Labour Activist? I think the police need to have a word!