Britain goes to war
Posted on
December 02, 2015 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
Tonight we watched as the conclusion of a “debate” in the UK Parliament saw the “opposition”, almost unprecedentedly, sum up the same case as the government, to roof-raising cheers and applause (which is now apparently permitted again) from the Conservative benches for a Labour shadow minister.
We were rather put in mind of a famous Neil Kinnock speech from 1985.
So sad, just feel so sad
Absolutely Gutted.
His father would be ashamed of him.
You have to ask why Labour’s final speaker was speaking against Labour policy
Kill everyone and bring our boys home. UKOK
Watching and listening to that, the only word that comes to my mind is a Greek one – Ephialtes (of Thermopylae). I actually feel sick.
Disgusted.
Thanks, No voters. This is what you voted for. Still believe we are Better Together?
And so the war drums start beating….Wont be long now till it’s boots on the ground time….Just a shame that the hawks will be safe at home while our children become cannon fodder….Can we learn nothing from history ??
No voters, let by dry Darling and odious Fats McDougall, forgot to mention that placing absolute faith in English detestation of foreigners, and corrupt Westminster, is certain to take us in to another war.
The USA has already proved its policy of bombing is NOT working, so guess what? Cameron rushes off to join them, followed ecstatically by the Labour party.
And the SNP prove that even when it force in the Gothic House of Horrors Scotland still gets the wars it never asked for, or ever began.
We are still a supernumerary to England’s ambitions. And how those politicians cheered and applauded when asked to kill people in far off lands.
Not sure why I feel so upset. I knew this bombing would go ahead.
Good luck Syria.
Absolutely disgusted. The pro war lot will have blood on their hands.
A sad day. Please, please, let us extricate ourselves from this madness. Going to war is not being done in my name.
The rebirth of Labour under Corbyn has been greatly exaggerated. They are dead and now everyone knows it.
Disgusted. 57 red tory bastards. Hell mend em.
And the bastard BBC waves the Union Jack to remind us Hilary Benn is decent sort.
Benn is on his knees now praying, “Dear Lord, thank you. Now help make me prime minister one day to avenge the destiny denied my father. I am your humble servant. Amen.”
It needs saying again more than ever tonight.
The Labour Party must be removed from Scotland.
Benn referenced Tory Cameron’s insane statement: “It makes no sense not to use the RAF’s capabilities across the border that Isis do not recognise.”, when he said:[paraphrase]”Da’esh don’t respect sovereign state borders. Why should we”.
And the House of Commons cheered.
It’s disgraceful.
Jeremy Corbyn is an irrelevant cringing coward.
We need to get out of this mess, and quick.
There is a reckoning coming and we need to disassociate ourselves from this travesty.
Labour have finally committed suicide.
What a fucking snakepit! A den of thieves and liars
Well there we are then, as expected the warmongers got their way.
Onward Christian bombers…
[…] Tonight we watched as the conclusion of a “debate” in the UK Parliament saw the “opposition”, almost unprecedentedly, sum up the same case as the government, to roof-raising cheers and applause (which is now apparently permitted again) from the Conservative benches for a Labour shadow minister. […]
Where was Ian Murray?
The terrorists in Britain were on show tonight.
file:///C:/Users/ronald/AppData/Local/Temp/12325223_10206999777580162_922734863_n.jpg
Indy Camp Holyrood
The Labour Party is finished, courtesy of a weak leftie who doesn’t know how to lead.
RIP
I think if Ben had asked the warmongers to attack Poland they would have joined in behind marching and cheering.
Cheering/clapping war is the sign of a very flawed democracy.
The Anglo Saxon/Norman need for blood and war was not going to be denied a second time.
Hilary is hilarious. “It’s why this entire House stood up against Hitler and Mussolini.”
Yeah, right.
Just think how Britain and Chamberlain stood up to Hitler with their best friend & ally, France and Daladier. Think of dealings of great Lord Runciman that preceded this.
Btw, when Czechoslovakia asked France to honour the agreement and come to help, they weren’t exactly keen to answer that call. Quite the contrary. That was some standing up as well.
Benn’s bid for the leadership?
A grim day for UK. But the SNP were solid.
Ayes 397, No’s 223. Majority 174. 67 Labour MP’s voted with the Government. Wonder if all the marching gentlemen in bowler hats will put on their tin helmets?
Stephen.
Not in my name!
Warmonster, rides rough shode over Scotland’s wishes once more.
… and they clapped!
Nothing to be said. Just tears of impotent, frustrated anguish for all the lives that will be lost – from the hundreds of thousands in Syria who will be rent to pieces by bombs from a faraway land, and those living on our own little island who die of starvation or cold because our government would rather spend money on fire and destruction than food and shelter for its own people.
I’m in tears as I write this.
It was truly sickening watching Benn getting cheered by the Tories. He has stabbed Corbyn in the chest.
Benn made his pitch for the Labour leadership tonight. Meanwhile innocent Syrians will die because of this vote. A terribly sad day.
UKOK? Get us out, now.
Night has fallen in Westminster.
George Galloway talks about the guff ha has had to listen to on the BBC. He says the BBC has been the main recruiting sergeant for Isil over the weeks. He says this (the vote to bomb) is their (BBC’s) victory.
Don’t often agree with Galloway but I do on those points.
Warmongering Brits!
Huzzah! Huzzah!
Guns not butter!
Oh by Jingo!
@Taranaich
Me too. You always have wisdom and eloquence.
I watched it for hours knew how it would end, but still have tears.
So ashamed to be part of this Union 🙁
I think the figures mean Cameron would have been beaten had Labour defectors not gone over to him
How many times now have red Tories got bent-nose and Ozzy through difficult votes?
What’s the point of Labour?
So, just to confirm, Cameron has committed to the Underpants Gnomes’ philosophy:
1/ Bomb Syria
2/ ?????????
3/ Victory!
heartbroken sick to be part of britain i want out indy now!! blood on the hands of all who voted yes:(
Although I and I’m sure everyone else that reads Wings was in no doubt of the outcome, it is not enough just to say I’m disappointed.
I’m fuming, absolutely raging at the folly of this.
This is NOT a war, it is a symbolism, my cock is bigger than your cock. What is the point. Look at the size of my missiles, much bigger than your missiles.
You don’t fight ideology with bombs and missiles, you fight them with education and humanitarian aid by showing that you REALLY are the good guys.
We in the UK, by virtue of our elected representatives have just lost a “war” that we haven’t even yet began to fight. There will be a backlash from the Scottish people, I am certain of that. Those that don’t know? I’ll work harder to educate them, those that don’t care? I’ll make them care.
They want war, I’ll give them one. A war against their arrogance.
A Parliament of losers where the “opposition” clap the views of the government. There is now only one shade of Tory, it is Red, the colour of their angry or embarrassed faces.
The Labour members voting for this should be ashamed.
Here we fuckin go, again!
So what now? Another bloody quagmire, endless union jack draped exciting BBC war news from the front, endless funeral processions to military cemeteries, really weally sad face MP goonshows,
A year, five years? The Brits are back!
My son spent most of today in school ‘buddying’ two Syrian children who arrived in Scotland recently.
He’s spent this evening trying to learn basic Arabic phrases as the brother and sister don’t yet understand English. It’ll probably be a while before they’ll be able to ‘discuss’ what’s happened this evening. Never mind – they’ll be able to see it all unfold via the esteemed BBC in the weeks ahead.
We’re now at war. We. Us. Scotland. Scots. At war. Again. Does this, perchance, constitute ‘a material change in circumstances’ since September 2014? And if it doesn’t, can someone please tell us what the fuck does?
Labour?
Worthless.
UK?
Feeling much better together now. We have to end this union, its like being married to a bunny boiler.
I gave Mr Corbyn a great deal of the benefit of the doubt, but refusing to whip his own party threw every last ounce of respect I had for him out the window.
“But those 67 MPs would’ve just voted against anyway!” – then let them. If they care more about bombing Syria than respecting the party whip, that’s their problem.
“But most of the shadow cabinet would resign the whip!” – GOOD. Let the electorate see them for the creatures they are. Better the party thrown into disarray than letting these sociopaths drag them to competing with the Tories.
“But it would destroy the party!” – and seeing the son of TONY BENN applauded by Tories in a rousing march of jingoism hasn’t destroyed it?
If Corbyn had an ounce of human decency, then he would have done everything in his power to stop this. It is not “untenable” for him to make such demands of his MPs, it is what people in power are supposed to do – use that power for the greater good.
Let hell mend him and his worthless, spineless, pathetic shell of a party.
NOT in SCOTLAND’s name
Luke 23:34 springs to mind: “Father, forgive them, they know not what they do”.
330 without Labour’s 67….it was going to happen with or without the Red Tories, so those 67 voted that way cause they want this.
I’d take Ed Milliband dribbling burger juice & ketchup down his suit any day rather than suffer that lettuce limp twat Corbyn.
@Ian Brotherhood
Thank you for that little bit of light. How lovely of your son, you must be incredibly proud.
I blame the parents!
Ian Murray says he voted in the same lobby as Alex Salmond but he doesn’t agree with Alex Salmond.
WTF is it with Labour that they can’t even agree to agree just once – Shower of f*ckwits they are.
Cheers and clapping at the decision in the commons tonight as they vote for further death and destruction. So this is what ‘British Values’ are
How many more times in my lifetime will I be forced to say Not in my name.
And Mr Cameron, I am NOT a terrorist sympathiser but tonight I am feeling that terrorists come in many disguises.
link to snp.org
A petition to sign. Let Warmonster know, we are not in agreement with it.
Thought clapping was outlawed in UKOK land. That gripe aside, I am ashamed to hold a British passport and be associated with the warmongers
Only acceptable to clap when it’s for bombing. Disgusting.
Now Osborne doesn’t have to keep any promises of help to those in need in the UK, nor meet his economic targets. Tonight, Westminster set new priorities for the UK.
War will allow the Tories to implement emergency measures as and when it suits them since an attack on London will now be considered a real and ever present danger.
The tories sure loved Hilary Benn’s speech… was that the sound of Corbyn’s leadership dying? How can he remain in his post after that?
Will be interesting to know the number of votes for the motion from our Scottish MPs. Do we know if Murray and Carmichael voted for or against the motion?
What can one add. Will they never learn?
After we’ve rained hell down on Syria and made the arms companies a shit load of money, after we’ve killed thousands of innocent civilians and sent ground troops in, after we grow weary of our troops being killed and complete a phased withdrawal… after we leave the region in an even worse mess than it is now and wait endlessly for Son of Chilcott: will they finally learn?
Or will they look to Iran?
Scotland dragged in to a war by the no voters. Well done the 55%. Those women and children soon to be murdered in Syria thanks everyone of you. Fucking disgrace. Why are the Brits so bloodthirsty and warmongering crazy bastards?
Thatcher took the country to war.
Blair took the country to war.
So isn’t it obvious that you can’t be a “proper” prime minister if you dont take the country to war.
Tally Ho!
Well, if people in England feel strongly that there Labour MP shouldn’t have voted for the bombing of Syria, they should go en masse to the constituency office and make it very clear.
No point standing around moaning and wringing hands.
link to theguardian.com
Be informed. Do not hide or turn away, and don’t let anyone else, who discusses this.
Sickening, raging, irrelevant, insignificant, ignored, frustrated, beelin. Just some of the feelings that are running through a lot of Scots tonight.
This MUST convince at least some NO voters that they were conned.
Indyref2, sooner rather than later.
Good catch on the clapping0-just shows the dishonesty of these clowns.
@ June Maxwell
“Ephialtes (of Thermopylae)”
and his cousin Ephinarsoles. I feel disgusted.
Check out Benn’s face from 1.05 to 1.11.
He knows that we know that he knows etc, but he’s calculated that it’s got to be worth it – experience has told him that a blood-price has to be paid in exchange for real power.
And that’s no problem, on condition that the blood isn’t his.
Just listened to Carbuncle talking about the rule of law, what a fecking raving fecking lunitic liar! These barstewards are scum!
Vote SNP x 2 in 2016 and again in 2017, let’s tell the Eton mess to feck off, Scotland Rise.
@Tam Jardine
Corbyns leadership is surely dead unless he clears out his cabinet tomorrow. Benn will be the leader of the NEW NEW LABOUR I PROMISE party.
That’s the least the remaining Labour voters deserve.
Fuckers.
Keep pushing the petition folks…it’s gathering signatures at some rate…
link to snp.org
That’s absolutely incredible. What a sickening reaction.
(And how awkward is it when he tries to sit back down at the end and he can barely get between Corbyn and Watson?)
Someone always profits from war and Mr. Benn has decided it will be him. Labour Party leadership is the primary motive bur a Lordship will do.
I have necer seen such a practised fake speech celebrated with such praise.
Labour and LibDems achieved a new low tonight – a remarkable feat given their current position.
The Butchers Apron donned with pride once again.
…sorry Syria
@ Tam Jardine
Murray says He voted against
Fatty no doubt would be for,i suspect
but could you believe them is the question?
Re Benn
Benn is as bad as his father Antony Wedgewood-Benn and before that Viscount Stangate ,
search the clips where he shut down industries,under Wilson the disposal of the TSR2 is a fine example
The voices of reason fell on 397 pairs of deaf ears in Westminster today including those of 67 Red Tories. Faced with a choice of such magnitude and with the certainty of death and injury for the women and children of Syria, not to mention UK military personnel, even so, reason was denied.
We can be clear about one thing: the governance of the UK lies with people who have lost the plot, and who have yielded to the same forces which motivate Daesh, and are based on the axiom ‘you kill us, we kill you.
Only outward appearance distinguishes them. More than anything perhaps, they have this in common – they don’t care who gets killed or injured when they pull the trigger.
No doubt the doors will be revolving now between parliament and ftse 100 lobbies.
It will all be over by Christmas ….. in this case, it may be true of Corbyn.
Looks like they have sent two Tornado air craft off immediately the vote was cast. I thought Cameron would want to make a quick mark to seal the deal.
All a bit odd. If it goes tits up as it has everywhere else it may Cameron’s Blair moment.
The Labour party are I suppose no great surprise. Many of those voting Yes were stick on Blairites.
What a repulsive spectacle tonight. I have never felt more detached from this hideous union. Another pyrrhic victory for Blairite Labour. A message will arrive soon from Daesh maybe in a shopping centre in Manchester or Hogmanay in Edinburgh.
How can we justify what we are about to do in Syria?
Disgusting, obscene and immoral. I feel like weeping at what lies ahead.
As said by someone above, 397-67 labour ayes = 330 = war inevitable anyway.
Does that include the 10 labour abstentions ?
If not then there you have it.
That aside, if Corbyn whipped the vote then it is probable that Cameron would not have brought this motion to the house in the first place, as he said himself, “i will not bring this issue to the house unless it is CERTAIN we shall win”.
Maybe labour hope this illegal war will even out the effects of the Chilcott enquiry (if it ever comes out).
@K1 (11.48) –
It certainly is.
At 23.20 it had 10,833 signatures.
On the stroke of midnight it has 19,663.
link to snp.org
@K1
SNP pol already over 20k
link to snp.org
Britain the little terrier can’t wait to get in there to please the master in Washington. We’ll show them how you deal with these tribespeople… And the Russians don’t scare us either, we’ve been poking the bear for the best part of 200 years.
So, bomb a few Syrian Army positions, antagonise Russia, ratchet up the tensions and take the world to the brink of apocalypse. For a few fleeting moments the screwed-up Etonian pervert boys will bask in the limelight and feel relevant again.
Anyone and everyone who thought this was about saving us or Kurds from ISIS is potty.
Note that the British only supplied the Kurds with small arms. There’s a reason for that.
@manandboy
Well said. I’d add when these 367 make their vote, who is is it for?
Their constituents, the Syrian people, themselves? Or somthing else?
I just took another rather incredulous look at that Youtube clip. That’s ISIS’s next recruiting video right there.
On twitter, Stan Collymore has just cut up his Labour membership card and has joined the SNP
I Wonder if Syria had the capacity to retaliate and reign bombs on English cities these bullying cowards would be so quick to vote in favour? Aye right.
Mhairi Black and her fellow MPs should all now start clapping enthusiastically every time one of the SNP members makes a speech inside that den of iniquity.
That seems to be the new rule these days, is it not?
Tony Benn may have sold Scotland out on oil but he must be spinning in his grave tonight.
If those that voted no are sympothisers (spelling)
are those that voted yes child killers
why dont labour not go the whole way and call themselves Conservative light
The way the numbers crunched Cameron would have won by 40 votes if Corbyn had placed a 3-line whip on his members.
Interestingly only 7 Tories voted against. If it had been closer who knows how many Tories would have defied the whip.
So if Corbyn had whipped the Labour Party it’s entirely possible Cameron would have called off the vote.
Petition signed -24,000+ now
Angry & sickened by tonights spectacle.
K1
Signed SNP petition, hitting 26,000.
@Man in the jar
Absolutely! As Stephen Fry said, don’t do what they want you to do.
Not that hard to believe the depth of stupidity though having listened to hours of…..
but France;
but they will come here, and get us;
we have to play our part;
we have a moral duty;
they hate our way of life
You get the picture. High on emotive rhetoric, short on facts.
The Syrian civilians unable to escape their towns tonight are the biggest losers as UK planes already make their way there.
There will be a price to pay for this decision both in human life and political life.
Corbyn is finished and so are Labour in Scotland. I’ll weep for Syria, not for Labour.
On the morning of 8th May when it dawned that Cameron had a majority, I said to my other half that we’d be at war within 6 months. Sadly I wasn’t far off. I wish more than anything that I’d been wrong, but this was inevitable.
The Tories have been itching to destroy Syria since well before the start of this government, before Paris, before chemical weapons. They were just waiting for their cue.
Still in tears like many others, so sad for the ordinary people whose lives are going to be destroyed with weapons we paid for.
There are no magic bombs which will only kill the ‘baddies’ and the fabled intelligence which will allow the UK to target them with pinpoint accuracy is a complete myth. They now know the bombs are coming, they’ll just surround themselves with civilians and hide themselves in places like schools and hospitals – taking the gamble that either the bombers won’t dare hit them, or if they do, they’ll take as many civilians with them as they can.
So many people were touched by the poor Syrian boy who was found dead on the beach, wishing they could have done something to save him. And here we are 3 months later, with our ‘so called government’ condemning other children who are still alive now, to the same fate.
We live in desperately sad times 🙁
28,867 as I write this caz…
Let’s not forget the Lib Dems voted for this monstrosity also.
What say you Willie?
I think we have just witnessed a very public coup. However, this time the Blairites won’t quit and form an SDP Mark II – they intent to squat the ruins and force Corbyn out through attrition.
@ Ian Brotherhood at 11.38
This isn’t meant to come across as trite or flippant (when I’m raging I can’t always tell, especially on the internet), but as a fellow devotee of puzzles, I hope you’ll appreciate these that I’ve just come up with:
BENN
BEEN
TEEN
TERN
TORN
TORY
and
BENN
BEAN
BEAM
SEAM
SCAM
****
not many intervening steps in either of those! (Thought I should play safe with the asterisks.)
@Tony Little (12.02) –
It’s now at 28,843.
I’m not even in the SNP, and I’ve signed it.
SNP membership is, what, 113k?
That seems a reasonable target then…
link to snp.org
Hilary Benn used all the imagery of the Second World War to colour his tawdry speech. Daesh is a criminal gang operating over sccessfully by our stupid policy and our lack of balls to confront their wealthy supporters. They use the local population as human shields so bombing inevitably leads to civilian casualties.
Benn’s closing remark about us all doing our bit ,again a reminder of WW2 ,is like asking us all to help to bomb civilians.
Not in my name,you bastards!
BBC tv newsday propaganda NOT showing the above howling and jeering, just the vote result being read out, in solemn dignity.
BBC propagandists/shysters really know their stuff.
A war amongst the people here and there,no mandate from Scotland for it . We are all diminished by this intractable conflict and the inevitable civilian deaths- many will be children.
No commitment to tackle the funding of Daesh because that would involve an intervention with 2 allies , one is a member of NATO, the other an oil rich Middle Eastern state. The blatant hypocrisy will not be lost when we hear platitudes about empowering moderates and fostering economic, social and political developments whilst weakening and discrediting radicals when we see the first casualties and witness an emboldened Daesh.
A gigantic squandering of public resources for a war of choice no doubt benefiting many friendly business contractors,not risking elite lives only those hundreds of miles away who are already living with despair and tragedy.
http://order-order.com
@Ian Brotherhood
I’m not in the SNP either but dammed right I signed it.
@Valerie
at 12:23am
Absolutely. Can you imagine watching that video clip from the perspective of a young arab sitting in the bombed out ruins of his home surrounded by dead relatives.
I will be surprised If that doesn’t make the next ISIS recruiting video.
The Benn speech did enormous harm to the Union by inflicting a terrible wound on Labour. And to do so in such circumstances, the impact could not be greater.
Labour is now like siamese twins who cannot live together due to irreconcilable differences. Separation is unavoidable. Democratic Socialism and Neoliberal Conservatism cannot coexist in the same party. The end of the Union just came one big step closer.
link to snp.org
the above poll is still taking in over 200 names a minute at this time of night
Just when you think they cant get any more obscene the Brit Nats sink to new lows. Benn was or is a truly disgusting individual amongst hundreds of them!
Just sickening!
Britain Goes to War …. to hand-clapping and cheering. I wonder what viewers at home made of that?
@ Steven Roy says at 10:25 pm ”You have to ask why Labour’s final speaker was speaking against Labour policy.”
Alex Salmond pointed this out earlier tonight Steven and reckoned it influenced the outcome of the vote. The whole set-up was stage-managed and that included hand-clapping Hillary Benn. Cameron is as cute as get out.
@ Angra Mainyu says at 12:03 am ”Note that the British only supplied the Kurds with small arms. There’s a reason for that.”
Yeah Angra I hear that they have to face every modern type of weaponry under the sun with machine guns. The only ‘boots on the ground’ on our side …. ha ha! A great deal came ‘out’ in the Commons today including the US / Nato / Turkish spiders web of deceit.
Hillary Benn’s speech? I wasn’t ONE bit impressed with it, especially when he talked about ground troops … just brushed off the whole crux of the matter / key area for potential failure / finding peace.
Did anyone hear Ian Murray on TV earlier (standing beside Carmichael and Alex Salmond) being questioned about voting? I couldn’t believe it. He started talking about SNP MSPs tweeting at the end of the night. Does this wee guy not remind everyone of the most hated kid in school? The wee, nasty revengeful clype. In saying that he should keep it up. Let everyone see him for what he is.
Anyway this is it folks we’re in but will we ever get out of this? Only if we get our Independence and I see that it has started already …. more people moving from Labour to the SNP.
Like most people on here my thoughts are with the thousands of poor, innocent, desperate souls tonight who now know that more fire and ‘brimstone’ is heading their way. I can hear their pleas for help and woeful cries from here. Praying for a miracle …. for peace the World over.
And once AGAIN I’m saying, with you, ‘NOT IN MY NAME’.
link to youtube.com
Almost three-quarters of our country (Scotland) is against air strikes.
I would not oppose UDI on this matter.
Iain Brotherhood, that is braw about yer son, dinnae forget that he should tell the Syrians that they are not just Syrians now… they are also Scots.
@Thepnr –
Understood.
Let’s keep posting reminders then – by very rough calculation, it’s getting 200 signatures every minute.
It’s now at 33,362.
At 23.20 it was at 10,883.
link to snp.org
33,898 now. with the speed of a Wings fundraiser.
link to snp.org
Three cheers for death,and a round of applause for murder and mayhem.
I truly despair.
@ Clootie says at 12:36 am ………
link to order-order.com
I would imagine that every terrorist on the planet now has their hands on this list of names. The names of the numpties that professed to want to keep Britain safe. You couldn’t make it up.
@manandboy
Observant, and very wise. I liked a lot.
I would like to congratulate the USA
They want a war with Russia and Iran and now they have their canon fodder.
@Kenny (12.46) –
Cheers.
I will tell him that, and that it was from you – right now, I feel so fucking ashamed of this country that I can’t bear the idea of him having to face people whose kinfolk are about to be slaughtered by us.
I don’t know he’ll deal with it all any more than I can get my head around how those Syrian weans are faring with being here right now, in the fucking cold and damp and gloom. It must be a total nightmare for them.
How it would be for our weans if they were suddenly hauled off to a strange country, but could easily access footage of their neighbourhoods being blown to pieces?
‘Grotesque Chaos’ is a fine phrase to sum-up what happened in the HOC last night, but it doesn’t come anywhere near describing the current state of the Labour Party. At best it’s a twitching corpse, and if Hilary Benn has any useful function remaining in this life it will be to deliver the coup de grace by becoming its leader.
@Clootie
As I posted before I was undecided about this, not knowing enough – been too busy, and tended to ingore it, not wanting to be dragged in to spending time finding our again what it’s all about – though I was up to speed with the chemical weapons over 2 years ago, basically predicted what Putin should do, which he did. Didn’t watch the debate, though I did watch Salmond’s good speech.
But I did look through the list of names of Labour MPs who voted with the Conservatives and recognise many of them. Many if not all who oppose Corbyn, and I wonder if their prime purpose wasn’t the vote, wasn’t Syria, but was to discomfort and undermine Corbyn.
That’s almost enough to make my mind up for me, the decision shouldn’t have been about party politics, but principles.
There can be no more a sickening site than a medieval cesspit full of paedophile supporting warmongering fanatics going totally orgasmic at the thought of killing innocent defenseless civilians.
Tonight i am thoroughly ashamed that my country voted to remain under the control of that obnoxious shitehole, Warminster.
Absolutely scunnert!
link to snp.org
I’m still hurting, but as much as it pains me I had to watch that video again. The cheering, clapping and celebration of a Labour front bencher seat speech by Tories still disgusts me.
That prick should cross the floor for a seat on the bench where he should be sitting or oust Jeremy Corbyn and make his own manifesto.
It’s easy to make that speech when war with Syria will not hurt him.
@ Ian Brotherhood says at 1:01 am ”… but it doesn’t come anywhere near describing the current state of the Labour Party. At best it’s a twitching corpse, and if Hilary Benn has any useful function remaining in this life it will be to deliver the coup de grace by becoming its leader.”
Best thing that could happen Ian. Let the Blairites and Hardieites go their separate ways and here’s hoping that Corbyn takes the vast majority of Labour supporters with him. That would take the smirk off of Benn’s face plus the 66 who voted with him and the 10 that abstained. Until that time I hope that their constituents ‘kick them out’ at the first available opportunity.
link to order-order.com
Can’t be said enough. So I’ll say it again.
Don’t Bomb Syria
link to snp.org
Another English PM booking his seat at The Hague for war crimes , if Chilcott has all this time and still no date of publishing, just exactly when will the inquiry into this fiasco be published ?
It’s smashed through 37000 at 1.25am.This will go crazy tomorrow when folk get up.
Petition rising by 30 a minute at half past one in the morning.
I see that McCain agrees with us. Looks as though it was all for nothing right enough, eh? Great old British Empire my a*s. Seems that everyone else can see them for what they are …. a second rate wee Island (southern part that is).
link to huffingtonpost.co.uk
And that, I think, just about wraps up the ‘Labour’ Party. JC has lost his MPs, but the Party has lost most of its potential supporters/voters in the country. Talk about Scotland being a one-party state, with no effective English parliamentary opposition the UK is now a one-party state.
Welcome to Airstrip One. WAR IS PEACE … INGSOC is always Right …
“What we need at this stage of the war, Perkins, is a futile gesture …”
… well, I don’t know what to add, but merely say that I agree with all that has been written above. Democracy ?? … where ?… reason ?… where ? …. Jingoism ? …… every bloody where !!
Very proud to be a member of the SNP tonight.
@ mealer says at 1:27 am ”It’s smashed through 37000 at 1.25am. This will go crazy tomorrow when folk get up.”
Wouldn’t it be wonderful if people from across the UK (or the World) signed it mealer and got it into the millions? In saying that would Westminster give a whit?
On a positive note this shines a spotlight on the war machine. In my opinion Corbyn is trying to bring change to his party by harnessing the new growth in its grassroots.He was never going to win the vote but if he survives he will win the power base by getting the grassroots members to remove the red tories. As I said its my opinion, time will tell.
@K.A.Mylchreest
Another poster Breeks, I think made reference to Ingsoc recently. Now that you mentioned it I thought I would look it up. Very apt.
“It is clear that “English socialism” (Ingsoc) emerged within the Socialist Party. However, the origins of Ingsoc have been obscured, as the Party continually rewrites history.
Oceania appears to have emerged as a formal political union of the United States and the countries of the British Commonwealth, which later annexed the remainder of the Americas and all of Southern Africa. Big Brother and Emmanuel Goldstein led the Party to power in Oceania after a revolution of some kind.
After the Party achieved control of Oceania, Ingsoc became the official governing ideology and other political beliefs were increasingly marginalized. Goldstein and Big Brother later became enemies, and differed in their interpretation of Ingsoc.”
Total fiction. Though that is the direction we are headed. Arseholes that we are.
Petra,
Aye,wouldn’t it? Hope over fear.
Now at 38,740 (1:57am). Fantastic. I’m off to bed. Let’s see where we’re at tomorrow.
link to snp.org
Hilary Benn speech tonight has got the bookies in a spin because he is now odds on to be next leader of Labour Party and of the Conservative Party
Listening to RT – watching the hawks.
It’s criminal that with all the information in the public domain and talked about, written about, by reputable people, that this country is bombing Syria.
A professor from Harvard telling the hosts that its common knowledge that Erdogans family have just spent millions on oil storage facilities.
The American hosts were asking why the West would not talk about it.
RT reporting the debate in detail.
Petra,
Where I’ll be at tomorrow is I’ll be safe in my own home.There will likely be Syrian Nairnshire bombed out of their homes though.
Nairnshire?? Should be bairns.
better together
I wont let these naw bags forget this
every photograph of dead Syrian children will now be posted on social media with the bt logo in the corner
murders together.
we have the high ground, don’t let them forget it, rub their noses in it
ode to Scottish labour, courtesy of r. burns
Ye Hypocites!
Are these yer pranks?
tae murder men
an’ give God thanks?
desist, for shame!
proceed no further
God won’t accept
yer thanks for murder
I don’t know why I’m so gutted, as NATO have been bombing in Syria for ages. Of course the best war is a one-sided war, ask Israel.
I’ll tell you what I think part of the problem is:
Like many, I was disappointed in George Galloway’s attitude to Alex Salmond and the independence referendum,
BUT
He has been one of the very few politicians who hasn’t bought into the Butcher of Damascus line (being a continuation of the Joan of Arc was a witch, Napoleon ate babies, Ares Velouchiotis was a sadist, Arthur Scargill was corrupt, Jeremy Corbyn is the new Hitler version of history, ie the mendacious denigration of anyone who gets in the way of the British establishment).
He has also been one of the very few who have seen through NATO’s irrational, hypocritical, at best impracticable strategy of (ostensibly)opposing ISIS but refusing to work with legitimate forces. Only yesterday he was arguing the case for working with Syria and Russia. Russia has an agreement with Syria that it will work with Syrian ground troops when it comes to urban areas, so as to minimise civilian casualties, which makes a lot of sense, but as we know the Allies prefer the ‘bomb Dresden’ approach.
It is quite obvious that *if* NATO countries are sincere about tackling ISIS, if they are *genuinely* upset about Paris, then it makes no sense to refuse to work with the Syrians and Russians. Corbyn should have tried harder to get this across to the electorate, instead of buying into NATO’s arrogant ‘al Assad must go’ policy .
O/T I have just watched a fascinating, moving and very convincing interview with a Syrian volunteer with the National Defence Force, which has the very dangerous job of clearing terrorists out of urban areas in such a way as to minimise civilian casualties and damage to property; it includes a 500-strong woman’s unit. People who accept any part of the NATO narrative might rethink, or might not.
link to off-guardian.org
Only two Scots MPs voted for this jingoism. Even if all the Scots MPs voted against we still would have been outvoted. Another nail in the Unionist coffin. Another reason for a Referendum vote.
Can’t sleep for thinking about the children and families in Syria about to get blown to smithereens by bombs with our name on them. Like everyone else on here I am raging and sickened.
Can any other insomniac Winger help point me in the direction of any polls where the Scots people voted against these air strikes? I know of the recent Independent newspaper one, which I think had 72% of Scots against, out of an unweighted sample of 2,000, but does anyone know of any others?
Needing it for a f****** annoying Unionist FB friend who is – predictably trying to turn this into an “SNP Bad” story.
Words fail.
Last year Scotland voted to retain this ‘union’. Voted to undersign the actions of Westminster government. Had Miliband got into number 10 the vote would have gone no differently. THIS is the reality of the no vote.
Whatever happens in Syria we are now part of… the United Kingdom.
When you next visit a polling booth, please take time not just to consider what a party will deliver for you, but what their government will do in your name. We may, if there is any justice, get another chance to form our own system of government in the not too distant future. Should you find yourself so fortunate as to be able to make the choice again we were given in 2014, remember all that has occurred in 2015 since that first vote.
I’m no.42,216 @ 5am
Grouse Beater says:
2 December, 2015 at 10:34 pm
And…
Benn is on his knees now praying, “Dear Lord Satan, thank you. Now help make me prime minister one day to avenge the destiny denied my father. I am your humble servant. Amen.”
Trolls goose stepping all over Twitter tonight.
Wargasm (noun) the climax of sexual excited old & inadequate men when young, old or innocent killed by military action.
Ignorance is Peace, War Is Strength, Better Together
Swami Backverandah says:
2 December, 2015 at 6:05 pm
What they’re not telling all those hand-wringing must bomb fannies in the Commons.
William Hague in the Lords – from Groaniad liveblog
Hague says Syria and Iraq may need to be broken up
“William Hague did not speak for long in the House of Lords, but he made two important statements.
Hague said it might be necessary to break up Syria
Short version: military takeover and carve up
Yeah…….divide and conquer fairly worked in India.
Have we learned nothing from history.
NIGHTFALLS ON THE CAMP
link to youtube.com
I have no words.
Scotland will not be going to illegal war. This vote will break up the UK. Scotland will vote for Independence. The Tories have done it again. Alienated Scotland and the rest of th UK. They are breaking International Law. Get your nukes and Jets out of Scotland dumped here without permission.
The majority are sickened by this decision Another betrayal by the medieval, alien institution. Every unionist politician will be voted out of Scotland. Scotland will vote for Independence. This divided vote will ensure that happens.
Cannot believe how my views on humanity are so different from my neighbours. Even some so called “Scots”. We all know many innocent people will die, we all know these deaths will not be reported, we will be told that all air strikes have hit terrorist targets when we all know from previous experience that won’t happen very often. The propaganda machine that is Westminster has now made the world a more dangerous place for everyone and they actually cheered it. Waken up Scotland ! Break away from this madness.
Benn will be praying to retain his seat. Most of the Blairites were imposed in Constituencies’ by Blair, against local consent. The rules of the Party have changed. There could be a great clear out. A purge. New Party members could ensure the Party goes back to it’s roots. Blair lost Labour millions of votes.
Anyone else here wondering what Benns motives are?
no me neither!
Not in my name!
So that’s the first mission, took off within an hour of the vote apparently, no surprise. Paveways used it seems not the smaller Brimstone. Infrastructure.
I presume once the Typhoons get to Akotiri they’ll be used for Paveway missions, and the Tornados more for Brimstone moving and smaller blast targets.
No comment.
A good start line for “SMART” bombs is to actually hit the RIGHT country!
link to defenseissues.wordpress.com
Hilary Benn has secured his birthright title Arise Viscount Stansgate,you know the one, his father fought to rid himself off.
FKin disgrace.
New series?
“I’m a Scot … Get me out of here!”
The planes had already left the night before the vote. They were in Cyprus. Democracy, it’s just a bloody joke. The majority are sickened by this vote. It will be enough to turn the 5% or more to Independence. Breaking International Law again.
Benn wants to be leader, but could find himself dumped.
Well,what we have now, is a Tory government which is out of control.There is nothing they will not do if it suits their purposes.Nicola needs to start hovering above the button.
I guess the no’s will be under the covers when our first fatality occurs. ” It wisna me!”
Sleepless night. I cannot rid my mind of the debate and its aftermath last night. We had people , elected representatives who during their speeches talked about how much suffering the decision for war was causing them.
After Benn spoke these same people actually gave applause for his view of taking military action to bomb Syria.
We do not applaud something we hate.It was a powerful scene which will take some time to leave me.
Behind the clapping and the cheering lurks death for many innocents in Syria. I am no pacifist, but neither am I a murderer. Last nights vote was for murder.
I am not emotional by nature, but something stirred in me last night on witnessing these scenes. I am a Scot from Glasgow and I fear nothing or no -one, but I do fear for those who can find these events acceptable.
We are about to bomb with others, a civilian population trapped in the midst of lunatics using them as human shields, with probably no financial or logistical means of
escape. I never thought I could ever truly hate,but I do.
Time we made our own future.
Notice how the BBC are cheer-leading for Hilary Benn this morning? Oh yes, and just casually dropping in a wee mention of the fact that six death-deliverers will be flying out of Lossiemouth in the north of Scotland.
Shame on them. I hope everyone who voted for this madness suffers nightmares for the rest of their natural lives.
All Mps that voted for the illegal war are war criminals and liable for trial at the Hague.
@Ken500
There were aleady 8 Tornados in Akrotiri flying bombing missions in Iraq, the 2 Tornados and 6 Typhoons are to supplement them and allow them to treble or quadruple the sorties per day it seems.
For what’s been indicated as the remit by Fallon, where he emphasised the civilian safer smaller Brimstone being used the jets are the wrong way around. The Tornados already extended in life were extended beyond March 2016 for another year, but need a lot of maintenance so can’t fly many missions whereas the Typhoons can. The Tornados will probably be used only for the much less deadly Brimstone, whereas the newer Typhoons only for the much more powerful Paveway.
I can’t help feeling there’s been a bit of unspoken deceit in the presentation of all this to the UK Parliament, perhaps relying on MPs not having techie knowledge. I could be wrong.
Perusing the zoomer columns shows that the nawbags don’t give a flying. One calling the SNP cowards! I despair.
The petition is over 50,000 this morning.
Am away to the wardrobe to see what else I can donate to the Syrian refugees. A wee saltire and the message ‘not in my name’ will be going into the pockets.
I feared this outcome was the plan, even before the no vote in sept 14, what bastards.
As for labour, Healey and Tony Benn they saw war first hand, and they never forgot it. Hillary is a self serving warmonger. RIP Labour you have no clothes now, even in England.
Poor bloody Syria.
@Free Scotland
“I hope everyone who voted for this madness suffers nightmares for the rest of their natural lives.”
No, they won’t. They should, but they won’t.
As for that holier than thou prick Farron and the disgrace that is Labour? I watched Farron on Sky preaching the ‘we’re doing it for them and our Allies line’. The urge to retch was almost instantaneous.
Then Labour, the peoples party. Pretty fucking selective over who they deem people it appears. I almost had a twinge of regret for their electoral fate recently. Happily I’ve gotten over it and Benn confirmed why.
There is no people’s party left. They badly and I do mean badly cleaned out of our politics root and branch. If we want a platform for indy2 to free ourselves of what we witnessed yesterday, you know what to do in May next year… SNPx2.
Not in my name.
50,554 now signed
It was never going to make a difference. Once the war drums start beating, the English smell blood. They can’t have foxes yet, so Syrian blood will do.
Listening to it off and on yesterday and hearing so many Labour say yes, I knew then it would come. Because of the time difference, I didn’t stay up, but this morning I had a tear in my eye as once again, the weapons lobby and warmongers get their way. They smell profit!
Funny that they are not even considering bombing Boko Haram, I wonder why? Not really, there is no oil and little to gain financially in “rebuilding” there.
When will the majority of people in Scotland wake up and realise that the southern part of this Union has absolutely nothing in common politically with Scotland?
We are getting there but what must still happen before it does.
I despair
If Scotland gets it’s independence will we be the next target for debate in the commons? We have oil, so it’s possible.
I want to rant and swear and bawl my eyes out at this travesty.
I wonder how many new recruits Da’esh will get at home and abroad and by how much the threat has now risen.
Boots on the ground has to come or how else they will they have control of the ground to enable their Pillage.Co.UKOK to go in and make that huge profit on the blood of innocents?
How many of these warmongering barstards said during the debate “many of my constituents are deepy concerned” or were against the bombing, BUT I’m going to vote for it because the PM wants me to and I haven’t got a mind of my own?
FFS ALL the expert opinion was against getting involved, but hey ho, the French needed us to hold their hand once again.
You can’t trust them. They promised to help the Jacobites, but never turned up. The promised to help the Chechs but couldn’t quite manage. The UK is always bailing them out 2 World Wars for example, and when the French aren’t begging for UKOK help they try to conquer Russia. How did that one go Napoleon? They started bombing 14 months ago, then Paris happened. Quelle surprise!
Now the UKOK has dragged Scotland into another war, yet again against our will. This is surely another significant betrayal. How many others do we till we split from this poisonous, coniving, deceitful, lying, thieving, greedy and monstrous warmongering Union?
Cameron et al, “Oh what a lovely war”
Time for a NOT IN OUR NAME RALLY?
As Great British Bombs rain down on innocents in Syria, certain Labour MPs bleat about being the TARGET of what?
“Bullying” e-mails threatening deselection, calling them Red Tories and warmongers.
Fallon; “precision bombing will protect civilians”
Eh, naw!
link to autonomyscotland.rg
Im with Limmy on this one
link to tinyurl.com
BBC national tv news reportage on runway at Lossiemouth watching Typhoons take off, says its ironic that SNP Angus Robertson voted No to war but he’s the local SNP MP. Suppose it is irony. Another drip in Cyprus says its war for years now.
How many times must it be said?: The Brits cannot shake off their colonial mentality, and English have a built-in disliked of foreigners. Anything ‘Arab’ is top of their list. Lawrence knew it.
Thank you No voters for identify Scots with bigots.
I see the SNP anti-bombing petition started late last night, is now increasing at a cracking pace.
link to snp.org
I am sick to death of the gloryfing of war in Westminster, they always find one and find a reason to jump in.
I am sick to death of civilians being murdered.
They so love their wars.
I am sick to death of Westminster, on many fronts but the wars they drag us into are a very big reason.
Not in my name.
What have they done?
I feel ill with sadness.
This is so so wrong.
Member for Slovenia, future First Minister of his Scotland region also had a great night.
Over excited toryboys love war, shock.
Adam Tomkins Retweeted
Jackson Carlaw MSP ?@JacksonMSP 10 hrs10 hours ago
Dreadful night for the reputation of the @theSNP #SyriaVote
How does this grab you
Stan Collymore ?@StanCollymore 9h9 hours ago
Done. No more Tories infiltrating the grand old party of working people anymore. Time to change.
Lets go blow shit up sums it up for me, no coherent plan, just lets go blow shit up, no exit strategy, just lets go blow shit up.
This bollocks about France asking for assistance is fine but the UK Gov’s response, lets go blow shit up is far from good enough, one would expect that kinda response from a tin pot dictator, Oh wait.
Heedy
“Jackson Carlaw MSP ?@JacksonMSP 10 hrs10 hours ago
Dreadful night for the reputation of the @theSNP #SyriaVote”
Lets make sure we have that comment archived so we can rub his fucking nose in it when were proven right yet again.
I recall an old joke about an Irish navvy passing a pub in which a fracas is in progress, putting his head round the door and enquiring politely: “Excuse me, is this a private fight, or can anyone join in?”
Thus it is with the UK Government, their Red and Yellow Tory brethern and the situation in Syria.
There do not seem to be any “Good Guys” in that benighted region of the world – just Bad Guys, Worse Guys, Even Worse Guys, Psychos and Total Psychos.
This is a religious/sectarian war, with the additional ingredient of oil – no sensible person would go near it.
Alex Salmond and Angus Robertson in particular played blinders in the HoC yesterday, but, the English, in full Imperial “peacekeeper” (that’s a joke) mode, wanted and got their war.
The consequences for England will be horrific – we MUST re-double our efforts to get out of this cursed Union, before any more Flowers of Scotland are put in harms way.
Just seen Guido’s list of Tory War supporting Labour MPs.
Corbyn did not whip the vote but LFI surely did! The cancer within.
Palestine, Yemen, Syria. Britain carries me to the wrong option every time. I do not want US, Turkey, Israel and Saudi Arabia as my allies.
I do want a quiet, independent northern European country to call home untainted by future Britnattery. FFA dead in water. Leave defence and foreign affairs to these lunatics? No chance.
@ john king says: “Fallon; “precision bombing will protect civilians”
Eh, naw!”
That’s why I’m going on (and on) about the difference between Brimstone and Paveway.
Brimstone has two explosives, the first to penetrate a tank, the second to blast it to bits. But it’s capable of being operated with just the first explosive from what I understand, which would penetrate say a car, and kill the driver and passengers, with very little if any other casualties.
Paveway is a big guided 500 lb bomb.
Fallon talked about precision bombing protecting civilians, i.e. the Brimstone with just one small charge. The very first raid on Syria by the RAF was with Paveways.
I meant to add, that difference is not something I expect the media will bother reporting on.
SLab twitteratti, normally roaring heads off on SLabour’s internationalist party of greatest internationalism, gives their latest endless war on hot countries far enough away not to retaliate hardly a mention. Very creepy bunch.
link to twitter.com
While internationalist SLabour dude Blair says SNP opposition is,
Blair McDougall ?@blairmcdougall 9h9 hours ago
Many outward looking internationalists had doubts & voted against. As for this, parochial doesn’t even come close.
Slaughtering people from 20,000 feet, in a jet from Lossiemouth, in endless war, is not parochial.
Oh-oh. Paragraph breaks.
Sorry, putting my fingers through keyboard when typing.
So bloody angry.
Heedy
I don’t think I could come up with two more irrelevant individuals to Scottish politics or public opinion if I tried.
Carlaw and Tomkins should know better than anyone what the Tory vote share was in May. As for their comment? That Carlaw and Tomkins apparently support Hameron should come as no shock to anyone.
I couldn’t be more proud of our representation yesterday.
Yesindyref2
Brimstonecan be as “precise” as it likes but if it enters”precisely” the wrong window, it will with great “precision” kill “precisely the wrong people with admittedly great “precision”!
#aint-it-great-to-be-Brutish
BBC 24 tv advert for Victoria Derbyshire next up, very exciting war news, full bombing coverage, explain, aim, fire, no body parts, blood, guts, screaming women, maimed shell shocked children
Victoria Derbyshire ?@vicderbyshire 59s59 seconds ago
0915:reaction to RAF jets dropping bombs on Syria (both Labour MPs [voted against] have pulled out this morning). Plus reax to Pistorius
BBC jingos are go!
What an exhibition of callous and bloodthirsty cheering by a hoard of misguided fools.Not in Scotland’s name thank God,though our lads will be involved in the bombimgs no matter what.
I propose we fire at ISIS all the British politicians who voted for bombing. It’s cheaper, and it gets rid of two homicidal sects at once.
It should be funny reading around red/blue tory unionists but it’s not. A UKOK clown says its not thousands of civilians, silly, its less than thousands, so shut up and let us get on with UKOK war.
Maggie Chapman ?@Maggie4Scotland 10 hrs10 hours ago
So angry that self-important “representatives” not only vote to kill thousands of civilians, but then applaud themselves for it #SyriaVote
263 retweets 262 likes
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Duncan Hothersall ?@dhothersall 10 hrs10 hours ago
.@Maggie4Scotland It wasn’t a “vote to kill thousands of civilians” Maggie. Why must you be so dishonest?
To me the most telling thing about this so-called debate is that it has nothing to do with supporting the people in Syria (if that were the case then the UK would be welcoming its fair share of refugees) and everything to do with politics and Cameron strutting his stuff on the world stage while tossing Eton school boy taunts at Corbyn. I was happy to see the SNP taking a strong stand against this. And as for Cameron, well we all know how Blair’s reputation has plummeted
Barbara McKenzie says: “He has also been one of the very few who have seen through NATO’s irrational, hypocritical, at best impracticable strategy of (ostensibly)opposing ISIS but refusing to work with legitimate forces. ”
I thought the same way until I realised where I had gone wrong. I assumed the strategy changed when Russia entered the frame and it probably did for a day or two; my working hypothesis over the last 30 years is that they only ever bomb those who can’t fight back. I assumed since Russia was there, they would stop targeting Assad.
The downing of the Russian jet and how it has been handled diplomatically suggests to me that they are still aiming to achieve regime change as a primary goal. That in effect means the RAF are probably going to go after Syrian military targets.
The whole story about helping France our closest pals and the evils of ISIS struck me as very insincere yesterday. It was a typical example of sociopathic minds using an emotive subject as a means to an end, something we in Scotland were at the receiving end of in the referendum.
A real strategy aimed at confronting and destroying ISIS would look nothing like this. And the debate yesterday, if that was the real goal, would have focused on the sort of stuff Salmond alluded to afterwards and the need to work with Russia.
My guess is that elements in Washington want to teach Russia a lesson or something. There’s no way the British would go down this road without the nod from the godfather. The Americans since about 1947 have regarded the Middle East as their sphere of interest. They think they own it.
This whole thing is potentially disastrous. You know you are dealing with a potential disaster when the British press and all the usual suspects tell you that it’s no big deal and not likely to make a bit of difference. It’s important they do that, I suppose, so that they can all act surprised when it explodes in our face as it most likely will when they target Syrian military elements.
Hilary Benn’s speech roundly cheered and applauded by the Tories reminded me of Jim Murphy’s tactics during the referendum campaign.
Maximise one’s self publicity,fated by the media and the Tories whilst the real long game is to undermine the elected leader of your party.
So, have we finished clearing Daesh out of Iraq now? How did that campaign go? It’s been a couple of years.
Looks like Russia kyboshing the oil convoys has put the wind up the West faster than a Brimstone missile. Time to move in.
It’s about oil, and gas.
Wales voted against too, albeit by a much smaller margin than Scotland. English Votes for English wars just about sums it up.
How short a time since those self-same warring politicians hung their head in silent respect on Remembrance Day.
Far right UKOK Horatio Nelson also very aroused by Labour jingos
link to blogs.new.spectator.co.uk
And what we know about fascists is that they need to be defeated. And it is why, as we have heard tonight, socialists and trade unionists and others joined the International Brigade in the 1930s to fight against Franco. It’s why this entire House stood up against Hitler and Mussolini. It is why our party has always stood up against the denial of human rights and for justice. And my view, Mr Speaker, is that we must now confront this evil. It is now time for us to do our bit in Syria. And that is why I ask my colleagues to vote for the motion tonight.
[CHEERS]
[CHEERS] by same exact nutters that started it all.
Please sign this SNP don’t bomb Syria petition if you don’t agree with Warmonger’s decision to bomb the shit out of Syrians with no concept of how to proceed after the bombing stops.
link to snp.org
Keep it going…
link to snp.org
@Ian Brotherhood
Already signed Ian.
I am not sure this is what many NO voters were expecting when they told us we were ‘Better Together’.
The only power we now have is to vote SNP x 2 in May.
There’s not a day goes by that I don’t think, if only, it could have all been so very different.
Victoria Derbyshire show with softly spoken Tory MP’s explaining IS throw gay men off roofs, so lets go to war. Why now? Does it take mass murder in Paris for red/blue toryboys to act over atrocities, in Iraq or Syria? Victoria Derbyshire asks, not.
This is just like Iraq all over again. As the old saying goes, ‘Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it’.
Aye, Scotland dragged into a right bl**dy mess, against our wishes, yet again. If war isn’t a reason for seeking independence, then nothing is.
These bombing raids are nothing but macho posturing by the British colonial state. Seriously, we have Russian, French and USA airforce jets bombing Syria to bits, does anybody seriously think 2 freaking tornadoes (circa 1980), and 6 Eurofighter typhoons will make ALL the difference?
Website has crashed-can’t cope with the volume I guess. 60,000 a few minutes ago
caz-m says:
Mhairi Black and her fellow MPs should all now start clapping enthusiastically every time one of the SNP members makes a speech inside that den of iniquity.
That seems to be the new rule these days, is it not?
It may be petty but I totally agree and the sooner the better.
As for Benn and the rest of the happy clappy warmongers let them send their sons and daughters to fight in Syria with Cameron in the front oh dear what’s that brown stuff running down his legs.Hell mend them all.
Very worried at the tone of the BBC this morning. Masturbatory descriptions of Tornado weaponry. This kind of attitude to deadly ordnance is a bit perverted.
The BBC is getting more creepy and sinister by the day – all delivered in those trustworthy honeyed tones of course – a polished and sophisticated propaganda machine.
“Airstrikes against Iraq, airstrikes against Syria are go” explains BBC Scotland news dude at Lossiemouth. So are we at UKOK war with Syria and Iraq again or is this just BBC fog of war stuff?
Website backup now-no wonder it crashed-its taking about 30 signatures every 20 seconds 61,212 now
So, our medieval masters secured their wonderful “victory” in the castle of Westminster last night and how they whooped in delight and clapped loudly as they set off on another crusade against the nasty medieval muslims in the Holy Land (not personally, of course, not one of them, or their own sons and daughters will risk life and limb – someone else has been sent to do their dirty work as always).
Like every crusade before it, they will soon come back with their tails between their legs, bankrupt, in complete denial and blaming someone else for the disaster. Unfortunately, many innocent victims will loose their lives in the meantime.
Why do we continue to put up with this?
Indyref2
You’re starting to do my heid in, so, you’re saying brimstone can enter a car, kill occupants, with very few other casualties, or words to that effect.
No glass or metal shrapnel, no other traffic or pedestrians, car will just stop and put its handbrake on, it won’t catch fire and the fuel tank will be just fine?? Jeez
I think you’ve seen too many movies mate.
Explosions are not controllable events.
Does anyone know how many of these super smart precision Brimstones UK has?
Given that the Corp. media war porn is going all out on how friendly our bombs are, I was wondering what proportion of our attacks will be with the nice friendly bombs, and how many will be the nasty inaccurate sort that might just kill a civilian instead?
Cos I’m sure no-one is mentioning that we might use any of that old, bad sort at all?
scott says:
3 December, 2015 at 9:40 am
caz-m says:
Mhairi Black and her fellow MPs should all now start clapping enthusiastically every time one of the SNP members makes a speech inside that den of iniquity.
Good idea – remind people what a bunch of hypocrites they are.
happy clappy warmongers
What a great description – so accurate. 🙂
ahundrethidiot @9.47
Agree!
Stop the War Coalition Protest. 5pm tonight-Buchanan Street steps
Glamaig says:
3 December, 2015 at 9:42 am
Very worried at the tone of the BBC this morning. Masturbatory descriptions of Tornado weaponry. This kind of attitude to deadly ordnance is a bit perverted.
Yes, sickening ain’t it? Corporate media schoolboy reporters and armchair generals getting all worked up about near-obselete 30-year old aircraft that will be obliterated if they get in Putin’s way. The Syrian army are apparently being equipped with Russian s-400 anti-aircraft systems, which unlike the oft, over-ratted British kit, are actually state-of-the-art.
Britannia rules the waves!
This is the British state in all its unalloyed hideousness. Blackmailing its own citizens and traducing those who won’t be blackmailed as ‘terrorist sympathisers’. Braying with delight as its elite group of avaricious warmongers and arms dealers masquerading as democrats send other people’s children off to die. All shored up by the emollient propaganda of its state broadcaster and its supine and useless media.
Still, pictures of Prince George look cute, eh, No voters?
@ahundredthidiot
None of you seem to get the point I’m making. So I’ll try again one last time for the hard of understanding.
Fallon and others have been talking about few if any civilian deaths, which would be possible with Brimstone.
But not with Paveway.
The RAF used Paveway.
Get thg message? Yet?
It’s not about condoning or agreeing with the use of any missile, it’s about the worse one being used, whereas the less dangerous one wasn’t.
Jings.
Signed petition, and shared, but I feel very defeatist.
One of the arguments, among many I used in the run up to the referendum, was Scotland being peaceful, and only patrollingborders, with a humanitarian aspect in any conflict. Most understood that to be a sensible and honourable stance.
If anything comes of this, I hope more Scots understand this UK move, and understand the deaths we are now part of.
It makes me physically sick. How can they say it’s two years? How can America be in there for 14 months and no headway?
The whole thing stinks, it’s obvious, yet we have tweets supporting and jubilant, as above from these blinded cretins.
@heed
The RAF have been bombing Iraq for months, with little media attention.
‘Day after 57 out of 59 Scots MPs oppose bombing Syria the UK deploys jets from Scotland to bomb Syria’
Having just read this tweet from Angus Robertson, I have never felt so helpless with regard to making a better future for my children.
“It is critically important, Mr Speaker, that we are honest with the British people about the potential consequences of the action the Prime Minister is proposing today.”
(Jeremy Corbyn, yesterday, in the Commons.)
‘It is critically important, Mr Speaker, that we are dishonest with the British people about the potential consequences of the action I am proposing today.’
(David Cameron’s thoughts yesterday, I imagine. And not just yesterday, but everyday.)
David Cameron is to politics what Dr Harold Shipman is to patient care.
+1 for SNP doing the happy clappy thang when any SNP member says something in the House of War.
Why is it called the Ministry of Defence, when there has been only foreign war involved without any need for defence?
There should be honest and rename it Ministry of Warmongering, Moneygrabbing Sycophants.
Billy Connelly used to joke about friendly fire being OK when you’ve just had you’re balls blown off by your own side, it was very funny the way he said it.
This pishtalk about smart friendly bombs is just as crude and inept.
This is not (yet) a conventional war, so its really about entering a sovereign state without their invite and killing civilians without any sort of trial, evidence or Intel.
Mental.
Hilary Benn will fail. He and the rest of the imposed Blairites will be thrown out of Office. That is why they are voting with the Tories. They are Tories. Blair lost the Labour Party millions of vote, they need to get elected. Blair/Brown illegal wars and banking fraud cost the UK £1.3Trn. The Labour Party is going back to it’s roots. It is now one member one vote.
Luigi @9.59
You wonder how nervous RAF pilots are flying into what kind of logistical mess, and not knowing just what weaponry is trained on them
Putin has put all the oil stealing footage public for journalists to examine, and says there must be no double standards in dealing with terrorists.
Without overall cooperation, would you be sure of your route?
Due to the differing objectives, the craziness of the jihadists, this will end very badly.
Russia is clear they are cutting off NATO member, Turkey, big time.
Precision weapons are only as good as the intelligence that is used to deploy them.
The USA has form in claiming people killed only to find it was a completely different group of people they precision murdered.
link to theguardian.com
(sorry its not archived).
ahundredthidiot says:
3 December, 2015 at 10:01 am
Billy Connelly used to joke about friendly fire being OK when you’ve just had you’re balls blown off by your own side, it was very funny the way he said it.
I think Jeremy Corbyn had his balls blown off last night (not that he showed any to begin with), courtesy of Hilary Benn.
Friendly fire, of course. Collateral damage.
So, this: link to msn.com
14 dead, 17 injured.
If it turns out this man who went to Saudi Arabia before doing this did it as a terrorist act will the US now bomb Saudi Arabia? We know the answer.
Indyref2
Apologies for banging on about this, but it could be argued that the massive rise in drone investment is down, in part, to pilots returning with their payload, although ‘pilot safety’ is the party line.
And I detect you may know someone in theatre, so I say this in all seriousness, pilots dropping payloads on civilians, just like Dresden, are not soldiers, seamen or airmen. They are state sponsored murderers.
Little wonder pilot on BBC right now, won’t allow himself to be identified, TV camera shoot is from behind.
All men (and women ofcourse) worry about their souls.
Thanks for the link to Kinnock’s speech and that specific website.
Valerie,
Unlike Cameron’s dangerous gesture, Putin has a clear plan. The oil/arms corridor between Turkey and IS is now under extreme pressure and will soon be closed, cutting off the lucrative shipments of arms and oil that benefited certain individuals on both sides of the border. The attack on a Russian bomber was a sign of frustration by President Erdgogan, whose relatives have been implicated in these illegal shipments. Putin will not be caught off guard the next time. Since the attack on the Russian airliner in Egypt, I think Putin has determined to finish off IS once and for all.
Turkey is now under extreme pressure and could de-stabilise quickly now. The big question is what do NATO (i.e. the Americans) do about it? Whatever happens, whatever the Americans decide, the loyal Brits will be in there, doing their bit. And in the meantime, you can bet that IS are planning a big response before they are wiped out completely. Worrying times.
So there was no need for action when Jihadi John was lopping the heads of British folk but its ok now because Cameron says IS are killing Muslims and raping women.
This fucking honks of bullshit because it is bullshit.
OK, let’s have a quick review of the situation :
To defeat Daesh three things are needed:-
1. Destroy their internet based propaganda capacity (GCHQ)
2. Cut off their money supply (The City)
3. Take military action (underfunded conventional forces)
Now you would think that Cameron would play to the Uk’s strengths, which would be 1 & 2, and avoid it’s weaknesses, no. 3.
So what does he do, and with remarkable immediacy? – no. 3.
This makes no sense whatsoever, and yet that is what the Tories, blue & red, have done. It is puzzling to say the least, but requires an explanation nevertheless.
Perhaps we shall get one soon.
ahundredthidiot says:
3 December, 2015 at 10:18 am
Indyref2
Apologies for banging on about this, but it could be argued that the massive rise in drone investment is down, in part, to pilots returning with their payload, although ‘pilot safety’ is the party line.
And I detect you may know someone in theatre, so I say this in all seriousness, pilots dropping payloads on civilians, just like Dresden, are not soldiers, seamen or airmen. They are state sponsored murderers.
Little wonder pilot on BBC right now, won’t allow himself to be identified, TV camera shoot is from behind.
All men (and women ofcourse) worry about their souls.
Drones also need pilots. The only difference with conventional aircraft is that the drone pilot can be thousands of miles away in the safety of a command and control centre.
I may be wrong, but I would have thought a drone pilot would be just as culpable as an aircraft pilot, if they got it wrong and killed hundreds of innocents.
Additional to my post @ 08:53
45 out of the 66 Labour bombers are Friends of Israel supporters.
We are “doing our bit” in OUR national interest?
Did ye, aye?
I hope now that the SNP will clap when they wish to their hearts content in the commons and if pulled up for it give the two fingers by ignoring the speaker. The speaker should be pulled up for allowing clapping on a serious issue like going to WAR.
Come on everybody.
If you`re happy and you know it clap your hands. Clap clap.
BBC: First air strike was on Syrian oil fields!
I wondered why we were in there….too angry to comment further. Signed the stop bombing petition last night.
SNP x2
Just gone over 65k –
link to snp.org
The BBC reporting this morning that another SEVEN fighter jets have just left RAF Lossiemouth this morning heading for Syria.
Did it fill me with pride? No.
Do I feel more secure? No.
All that it meant to me was that there are now SEVEN fewer Englishmen in Scotland this morning.
(My point from a previous post, that all RAF fighter pilots are English)
Luigi
Not quite, there is a team of people operating in a shared environment which dilutes the impact of any decision to deploy, that and the point you make about distance.
There is an old trick to play on someone with say, a gunshot to the leg and in pain (obv med aid aside) get him to look at the injury through the wrong end of his binos so the injury looks far away – pain diminishes. Even imagining looking at it through wrong end of binos reduces the pain. Amazing trick. Psychology apparently.
@call me dave,
Stops Daesh stealing the profits till we invade
Clapping directions for Idiots
link to youtube.com
They wont be going to heaven in any boat.
President Assad of Syria has just announced that the UK bombing on Syrian soil is illegal.
“Airstrikes against ISIS in Syria ‘illegal’ without Assad’s OK – report”
link to rt.com
If 72% of the people of Scotland are against this murder (it’s not a war) and if the UK Govt continues to use Scottish air bases to send its bombs to Syria then I have absolutely no doubt that there will be a sizeable shift towards indy–probably up now around 55%+.
And the first time I hear someone say, “We must unite together to support our brave boys,” I’ll poke their fecking eyes out. I’ll pray our troops return safely but the tub-thumping, butcher’s apron-wearing sabernats can go to hell.
Your move Nicola.
@caz-m
That’s the invisible border the Tories keep referring to.The one that won’t be there when the big countries carve up Syria again like an old jigsaw puzzle.
@Bob Mack
Your right!
I`ve just joined the SNP, would be nice if they/we get another surge in membership due to Westminster`s disgraceful warmongering decision yesterday.
Vote the unionist parties out of Scotland in 2016/2017.
It will never change.
The British are hardwired to imperialism and war.
This state and its people love war.
Nick Kochan talking to Max Keiser, he seems happy to call out the British insanity in foreign policy.
Pretty good picture of the most dangerous border in the world,where Da’esh are just another trading partner to all and sundry, and not just oil.
It’s apparently where all the antiquities are traded.
After the commons performance Cameron is spoilt for new Lord candidates, Hillary is my top slot.
It may sound trivial, but it isn’t. Last night in the house of commons, MP’s applauded a speech. They were not chastised by the speaker. Every time ANY SNP MP applauds a speech, they are told off by the speaker, as such behaviour is strictly forbidden in the house of commons.
This, albeit a small example, is just exactly HOW Westminster is not a democratic institution. One rule for the English, and a different rule for Scots.
As it has been since 1707. ‘Better together’, indeed.
I had thought that I had become a YES voter due to the Iraq war but after watching some of this debate I remembered an early memory of a time I spend in the South of England during the Falklands war.
I was absolutely astonished by the flag waving/jingoism on display. I knew then that I didn’t want to be part of all that I found it all very disturbing.
I would have been very surprised if this vote had gone the other way.
I fail to see how NO voters could have expected a different result.
People think this action brings indyref2 closer. Maybe.
I hope so.
But I know what would kill it dead. NATO at war with Russia and Iran. Killing Scottish Independence would be a fringe benefit for the UK.
Just imagine it, Scotland wide open target, etc etc, it would put project fear to shame. And we would lose to the ‘let’s stick together and back our brave boy’ brigade, you know, those all year round poppy wearing types.
How British, we are not going to war, merely doing our bit!
Then the fools actually cheered over people being killed.
Proud Cybernat says:
3 December, 2015 at 10:53 am
And the first time I hear someone say, “We must unite together to support our brave boys,” I’ll poke their fecking eyes out. I’ll pray our troops return safely but the tub-thumping, butcher’s apron-wearing sabernats can go to hell.
Ruby replies
I agree with that.
When Hilary Benn sat down after his war makes men out of mince speech, he sat on Corbyn who was forced to move aside to give him room – that gesture and at that moment Benn knew he had just positioned himself physically and mentally as Labour’s next leader.
What I found disturbing is what Cameron said about Daesh not recognising borders in order to justify the UK’s participation in the bombing of Daesh in Syria.
That’s a rather dangerous argument to make, because what happens then if Daesh decamps to say Jordan and operates from that country, will Cameron then argue for a bombing campaign in Jordan?
“that gesture and at that moment Benn knew he had just positioned himself physically and mentally as Labour’s next leader.”
Saw it, and it was calculated to show Corbyn being shoved aside without a doubt.
I had just started work when the Cuban crisis broke in the early 1960s. We lived in Ayrshire, but my first job was in Edinburgh. I can remember going off to Edinburgh one Sunday night, unsure if I would see my parents again, such was the fear of global conflict and the unleashing of nuclear arsenals.
I have not felt such fear until now. This Syrian adventure will end badly – very badly.
The retirees group to which I belong has spent the last few weeks studying the situation in the Middle East, it truly is a minefield of conflicting and conflicted interests, but, at its heart is the centuries-old Shia v Sunni sectarian conflict.
Why are we getting involved? It makes no sense. We, as the USA’s lap dogs seemingly wish to impose regime change on Syria, because we dislike the Assad regime – regime which is the legal government of that country.
Now, we are seeking the impossible, by bombing the shit out of one anti-Assad group, Daesh, while supporting various other anti-Assad groups. But, by doing this, we are offering help and support to Assad.
We are turning a blind eye to the various nefarious activities of Saudi, Turkish and American-backed groups who are also anti-Assad; but, by our determination to bring-down Assad, this will upset the Russians.
We refuse to send heavy arms to the Kurds, the one effective local opposition to Daesh, this is a recipe for catastrophe on a world-wide scale.
Daesh seeks the apocalyptic final battle between Islam and the Christian West. I have seen forecasts, this conflict will come to a head around 2020.
I have five grandsons, aged 20, 19, 10, 8 and 3. I have no wish to see them conscripted to fight in this or any other war – more-so a war as ill-conceived as the one on which we have just embarked.
An independent Scotland has a chance of staying out of the conflict – we must bring this about.
@Steven Roy says: 2 December, 2015 at 10:25 pm:
“You have to ask why Labour’s final speaker was speaking against Labour policy.
Jings! Someone have we actually got someone who knows what Labour Party Policy is? Must say I don’t and, going by recent events, neither does the Labour Party.
The members and Jeremy want one thing, the elected members and half the shadow cabinet want something else.
Jeremy wants one thing and Kezia wants something else. English Labour want one policy, Labour in Scotland want another and Labour in Wales cannot make their mind up what they want.
Looks to me like not even Labour knows what they want.
John Saw it
Not a single member of the MSM mentioned it, John. I’m pleased someone else spotted the move and the only interpretation of it. It was so blatant.
Benn must despise Corbyn.
Good old socialist camaraderie – eh?
Hard core toryboys thrilled with it all, one’s embarrassed to be Scottish, the other relentlessly monstered Scottish democracy.
Deerin’s just one more dreary toryboy wetfart but Schama’s a oddity. How come we’re not bombing the Saudi’s and so on.
Chris Deerin Retweeted
Simon Schama ?@simon_schama 11 hrs11 hours ago
Magnificent speech by @hilarybennmp :heartening at to hear the issue laid out as resistance to theocratic fascism.
Those wondering about the BBC`s love of war and its obsession with the Brimstone Weapon of Mass Destruction,
the Vice Chair of The British Broadcasting Corporation is Sir Roger Carr,
he is also Chairman of BAE Systems,
BAE Systems is the major shareholder in MBDA,
MBDA is the company that developed The Brimstone Weapon of Mass Destruction.
BBC is a tool of the Establishment.
@ArtyHetty says: 2 December, 2015 at 10:31 pm:
“Absolutely disgusted. The pro war lot will have blood on their hands.”
I’m an old man and their hands have never been clean in my lifetime and, according to my late father, not in his lifetime either. My Grandfather also fought in several UK wars too in his lifetime.
None of us had any choice, for we were all in turn, in our lifetimes, conscripted by UK governments and all of us were anti-war.
Am not long after texting “call kay with an e”; I doubt it will be read out;
“Why didn’t the speaker of the house prevent his mainly English parliamentarian friends from applauding, “HAVE SOME RESPECT” a “furious speaker” told our Scottish mp’s for breaking “strict commons protocol”…
This suggests to me that the speaker of the house is an anti-Scottish racist!
The decision to bomb Syria is a disgrace considering that the Daesh terrorists wishing to cause us harm are already here among us, this action will merely encourage them hence making us less safe rather than more safe. The opposite of the suggested intention.”
HOw dare these Westminster cretins put Cyprus in the front line. Most Greek Cypriots have no time for the British due to suffering under them for so long like many other countries. When, oh when, will we be free of these embarrassments that inhabit the Westminster cesspit?
Looks like “the West” (UK, USA and pals) have been funding and arming Daesh all along via Saudi, Qatar (home of Aljazeera) and Turkey. Daesh steal Syria’s oil, depriving Assad of the income, sell it on the Turkish border, bank the proceeds, keep on beheading.
The Russians know this and have bombed the supply chain. NATO, furious, pretends to be attacking Daesh now. But the real motive is to get rid of Assad. Next stop is Iran.
Another Deerin wannabe traveler of the right twerp, RT’s another display of how Westminster deceives without hesitation.
“Somber silence” and hysterical jingos baying for slaughter. It looked a lot like a Roman coliseum in all its bloodthirsty fury at the Commons last night. But the great UKOK fraud must go on.
euan mccolm Retweeted
Chris Bryant MP ?@RhonddaBryant 43 mins43 minutes ago
Chris Bryant MP Retweeted Mhairi Black MP
You know that is untrue. The vote was greeted in somber silence. Chris Bryant MP added,
Mhairi Black MP @MhairiBlack
Very dark night in parliament.Will never forget the noise of some Labour and Tory cheering together at the idea of bombs falling #SyriaVote
140 retweets 76 likes
Reply Retweet 140
Like 76
More
Wonder if we’ll bomb them on Xmas day?
@Training Day says: 2 December, 2015 at 10:34 pm:
“The Labour Party must be removed from Scotland”.
The Labour Party needs removed from the face of the Earth, for as long as they exist on Earth they will still feel entitled to own Scotland.
They are like an aggressive cancer that unless every last cancer cell is excised, will re-grow.
Hansard, 2 December, col. 327:
Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP): The Prime Minister will know how members of my party feel when it comes to fighting and dealing with terrorism, and for that there will always be support, no matter where terrorism raises its head. The motion states that
“the Government will not deploy UK troops in ground combat operations”.
If it becomes necessary at a later date to do that, will he guarantee that he will come back to this House to seek approval for that?
The Prime Minister: This is something not only that I do not want to do, but that I think would be a mistake if we did it. The argument was made to us by the Iraqi Government that the presence of western ground troops can be a radicalising force and can be counterproductive, and that is our view. I would say to the hon. Gentleman, and to colleagues behind me who are concerned about this issue, that I accept that this means that our strategy takes longer to be successful, because we rely on Iraqi ground troops in Iraq, we rely on the patchwork of Free Syrian Army troops in Syria, and in time we hope for Syrian ground troops from a transitional regime. All of that takes longer, and one of the clear messages that has to come across today is that, yes, we do have a strategy, and although it is a complex picture and it will take time, we are acting in the right way.
Cameron does NOT answer the question, but gives it a bodyswerve. As someone posted earlier, the RAF has been bombing Syria for months – this is to get us ready to join the US ‘expeditionary’ force based in Iraq which plans ‘cross-border’ skirmishes, and give the US the figleaf it craves.
The SNP MPs should applaud every time one of their number speaks and when Bercow gives them a scolding they should applaud that as well.
Maybe then Bercow and Co will become aware of the bullying double-standards that are being imposed on SNP members regarding applause.
And the bullies will see they don’t have any power over the SNP members unless the SNP members give it them.
RT on Turkish theft of Syrian oil.
link to rt.com
It’s simply not credible that “the West” doesn’t know all this, and hasn’t colluded. What a devious game our Imperial Masters are playing.
Where do toryboy’s turn to first to make their bullshit case?
BBC propaganda ofcourse.
At the very least, it shows the great British media is fully aware of how grotesque their war mongers actually are, by trying desperately to cover up their reality, or another day at the UKOK toryboy media coalface.
euan mccolm ?@euanmccolm 8 mins8 minutes ago
euan mccolm Retweeted Rosie McGarvey Kane
no, she didn’t: link to bbc.co.uk … euan mccolm added,
Rosie McGarvey Kane @RosieMKane
@RhonddaBryant @euanmccolm @MhairiBlack I heard to snooty yahoo brigade droning “yaaaaaaa” on my TV!
Tam at 11.20pm
Only Carmichael and his fellow Tory Mundell voted in favour from Scotland.
O/T links Re posting after removing a couple.
link to thecanary.co
link to eulawanalysis.blogspot.be
link to commonspace.scot
link to desmog.uk
@Col,
Welcome and well done.
I felt sick to the pit of my stomach this morning. What a bloody sight, these performing seals cheering and clapping about killing folk. Not just the bad guys get killed, men, women and children too, and there they stand howling like banshees.
I have to agree with Robert Peffers above at 11.46. His comments about Labour are absolutely true.
We need to rid ourselves of these pathetic, self serving creatures before we can reclaim our own country.
Signed the petition with a very very sore heart.
I feel that the speach Benn gave yesterday, will put him in line to take Labour from Corbyn.
Why do I think that?, well just watch and listen to the applause from Tory and their labour pals who voted yes.
Benn now has Tory acceptance, and when the time comes they will assist him to get control of labour. His father would be ashamed of him, befriending that bunch of warmongering clowns.
A generation is a long time in politics.
link to youtube.com
For the Bombing Motion:-
David Mundell (Con, Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale) voted for the motion.
No surprise there,Scotland’s one and only Tory MP. 🙁
Posted more links which have not appeared. Don’t know what glitches may be causing it. Anyhow trying these.
link to medium.com
link to darkmoon.me
link to diary.thesyriacampaign.org
link to reuters.com
link to mediaroots.org
“Posted more links which have not appeared. Don’t know what glitches may be causing it. Anyhow trying these.”
It’s not a glitch. As I’ve said about a thousand times, any post with lots of links in it gets automatically put in the moderation queue by WordPress, because it thinks it might be spam. That means I have to approve it manually, which means that when I have time I have to wade through the entire mod queue to make sure I don’t accidentally approve four identical posts saying “I tried to post these earlier but they haven’t appeared”, scattered amongst anything else that might be in there.
Nearing 70,500! Keep it going!
I tried posting this first thing this morning but it disappeared. I thought I’d lucked on the next headline. Doesn’t look like it though.
Ignorance is Strength, War is Peace, Better Together
Don’t think there’s much to add in light of the majority of comments above, except to say that:
I was thoroughly disgusted by the sight of that baying mob cheering and applauding the decision to bring death upon the heads of innocent men, women and children who are already suffering;
Far from “protecting” us, the decision to extend UK airstrikes into Syria make it *far more likely* that there will be terrorist attacks in this country;
To add to my overall disgust, my MP, ex-interim Labour leader Harriet Harman, voted with the Government. Quelle fucking surprise.
Ruthie babes piles in. No idea what 60 county coalition is though and nor can proud Scotbut torygirl, that likes sitting on big tank gun barrels, spell either. Tories aren’t really maniacs are they?
Ruth Davidson MSP ?@RuthDavidsonMSP 3 hrs3 hours ago
Maybe, just maybe, joining a 60 county coalition to defeat establisment of a murderous caliphate is not about indy?
Some figures have appeared in the media over the last few days. They were repeated by Tasmina Ahmed Sheikh yesterday …
“The recent Russian airstrikes have killed 485 civilians, including 117 children and 47 women.”
I couldn’t say whether this report and figures are true. Tasmina apparently accepted them. Even if inaccurate, the sheer scale of that ‘collateral damage’ is absolutely horrendous.
The BBC are reporting the MOD statement that the RAF planes had advanced sensors that could tell whether or not civilians were present.
What kind of Harry Potter fantasy bullshit is this?
Planes carrying equipment that can tell the difference between a ‘civilian’ and an ‘enemy’?
The straight-faced, unquestioning reporting of this tells you all you need to know about the BBC.
Don’t those MPs ever think about how the rest of the world views them? Applause and cheers for votes for bombing.
Could be some interesting general election party leader combinations at the next general election, Corbyn/Johnson, Benn/Osbourne,not to mention that Hilary Clinton could be US president. Hilary and Hilary 🙂
Hard core unionist toryboy in his Scotland region also furious today, at Salmond, not endless UKOK war, just the shitty man that said no to war.
Kevin Hague ?@kevverage 25 mins25 minutes ago Livingston, Scotland
Kevin Hague Retweeted Kevin Hague
This shitty man has said many shitty things but this might well be the shittiest yet
Kevin Hague added,
Kevin Hague @kevverage
Salmond insults principled opponent by asserting his hypothesised view of their dead father’s opinion
Unbelievable link to twitter.com
@Jimbo says: 2 December, 2015 at 10:38 pm:
“Well there we are then, as expected the warmongers got their way. Onward Christian bombers.
What a travesty of humanity that hive of evil, Westminster, is. Last night they were clapping, cheering and exalting the prospective killing of their fellow humans in the Middle East.
Today, while watching Westminster direct on-line I heard, (I believe it was Oliver Colvile, Conservative MP for Plymouth Sutton and Devonport), is rather concerned about the falling hedgehog population in England.
He has been seeking a Parliamentary debate on the issue. He does, by the way, believe the increasing Badger population in England is rather detrimental to that of the hedgehogs. Perhaps they could bomb the Badgers.
I wonder how he voted in the debate on bombing his fellow humans in the Middle East?
thought Galloway on 2015 last night
I dislike him immensely but his summary of the situation was spot on
We need to deal with the very real, near and present threat Daesh poses to the safety of people in the UK.
Therefore, Tornadoes and Typhoons will be flying out of bases in the UK to carry out surgical strikes on local terrorist cells in towns and cities in France and Belgium.
Doesn’t quite have the same ring to it, does it?
Personally, I thought Benn’s speech toe-curlingly, embarrassingly awful! Like something I would have written at the age of 12 on the bus on my way to school!
“like we stood up to Hitler and Mussolini…”
Mussolini seized power in 1922! And it was Italy which declared war on Britain in 1940, not the other way around! And we all know the history of the 1930s and appeasement, if not worse (and long before Chamberlain, who carries the can).
And if it is like the 1930s, why are we not accepting more refugees? The amount of Syrians allowed in the country is a joke. Do not forget that Anne Frank’s family — and thousands and thousands like them — were denied entry into the USA. But at least America is taking more than the handful we are taking.*
* And all the time the right-wing establishment media, which pays no tax at all in the UK, is whipping up xenophobia (which should bring criminal charges and prison sentences, in my opinion).
@mike cassidy
“The BBC are reporting the MOD statement that the RAF planes had advanced sensors that could tell whether or not civilians were present.
What kind of Harry Potter fantasy bullshit is this?
Planes carrying equipment that can tell the difference between a ‘civilian’ and an ‘enemy’?
The straight-faced, unquestioning reporting of this tells you all you need to know about the BBC.”
Probably made by the same company that do the fictitious detector on their licence detector vans.
Corbyn is a Crapbag.
Benn is aw Gung-ho.
Nae policies or principles.
Jist Spinelessness on show.
What a travesty of humanity that hive of evil, Westminster, is. Last night they were clapping, cheering and exalting the prospective killing of their fellow humans in the Middle East.
All of this nightmare displays why Westminster will never become an actual representative democracy.
Scottish PR Holyrood produced the representatives we have today, all NO for war.
Since 97′, in nearly two decades, UKOK red and blue established has declined and retreated, merely to be propped up by a staggerly corrupt BBC media led goon show that relentlessly monsters all of PR Scottish democracy.
Or maybe it is all just coincidence.
This outfit leads the way to UKOK greatness, and their Scotland region doesn’t even exist.
link to theguardian.com
Strange. I’ve just re-read the thread and notice my original post now shows, though it didn’t appear initially. Technology, eh?
Not a conspiracy theorist but I’m considering asking Santa for a tin foil hat.
Posted several links re the Syria situation three times this morning and no show.
Sometimes they take a while to appear as I understand Stu needs to approve but after a couple of hours since first posting I’m thinking the powers that be don’t like those links one little bit.
Just watching the politics show – The pro-bombing MPs don’t like being held to account.
Holding them to account by either tweeting them or demonstrating against their decision outside their office is now classed as organised bullying.
Hate to add this to the fearful and horrifying consequences of the powers now at play – in a year’s time, with Russia facing pressure on access to its bases in both Syria and the Crimean peninsula, the US may well be playing its Trump card.
Unimaginable….
Chic, look you really don’t understand the cunning of those Boffins at the MOD.
The bombs can tell if you have read any Harry Potter, as we well know Death Cult Islamic Fundamentalists would never read our new Bards work.
That is why our Boffins are so cunning the explosives contained can tell the difference between the followers of Death eaters and Death cultists
This is why Britannia is so Great
Ps they also will not explode in the presence of children unless they are going to become terrorists. So there will be no collateral damage and therefore it will not be reported.
@ Jack Murphy says at 12:13 pm ”For the Bombing Motion:-
David Mundell (Con, Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale) voted for the motion. No surprise there, Scotland’s one and only Tory MP.”
I wonder what his constituents make of this? The 800 that swung the vote. Time for them to ‘bomb him out’.
If those MPs who voted yes to war came to their decision reluctantly only after much heart searching and thought, as many of them claimed. Then why were they cheering and clapping so enthusiastically at the result of the vote?
There isn’t a bright spot in all of this mess that I can see, but at least the whole world can see the contrast between the SNP stance and that of the warmongers there last night.
Article from 15th Nov
Hilary Benn: Shadow Foreign Secretary says Labour won’t back air strikes on Syria
The shadow Foreign Secretary says that, after Paris, the emphasis must be on peace talks and helping refugees
link to archive.is
I posted before, but it doesn’t accept my links, never does. A country issue?
I suggested that Vera Lynn’s ‘There always be an England’ might top the English charts after the happy clappy lot in Warmonster voted to go to another war.
It’s full of good of Empire lyrics
`The BBC are reporting the MOD statement that the RAF planes had advanced sensors that could tell whether or not civilians were present.`
If they have the capability to differentiate between terrorists and civilians every airport,border,high street,etc would be equipped with these `advanced sensors`.
As stated before the second in command of the whole BBC Sir Roger Martyn Carr is in charge of BAE Systems which sells the tools of war,
the BBC telling the world how marvellous these weapons are helps sell them and increases the shares of BAE systems which is very good for Sir Roger Martyn Carr .
@Tam Jardine says: 2 December, 2015 at 11:20 pm:
“The tories sure loved Hilary Benn’s speech… was that the sound of Corbyn’s leadership dying? How can he remain in his post after that?”
Aye! Tam, I believe you are correct. I posted here on wings, when Corbyn first gave his MPs a free vote on the matter, that he had just signed his letter of resignation.
Last night he posted that letter.
mike cassidy says:
3 December, 2015 at 12:24 pm
The BBC are reporting the MOD statement that the RAF planes had advanced sensors that could tell whether or not civilians were present.
What kind of Harry Potter fantasy bullshit is this?
Planes carrying equipment that can tell the difference between a ‘civilian’ and an ‘enemy’?
The straight-faced, unquestioning reporting of this tells you all you need to know about the BBC.
Must be the same antifratricide makings we painted on to our warriors in the Gulf War. Didn’t stop the Americans taking one out and killing 8 people, mostly Scotsmen from the Queens Own Highlanders at the time. This is absolutely ludicrous.
Even if they can detect people using IR or thermal Imaging it cannot show fiend or foe or innocent humanshiels civilians. It might differenciate between women and children, but a pilot approaching a target at that speed won’t have time to distinguish before the release their payload.
Absolute bollocks as you rightly say.
The applause??
Remember that Robin Cook got a standing ovation at his resignation speech,
It’s only if your a SNP MP that chastised
@ Nana says at 12:44 pm ”Not a conspiracy theorist but I’m considering asking Santa for a tin foil hat. Posted several links re the Syria situation three times this morning and no show. Sometimes they take a while to appear as I understand Stu needs to approve but after a couple of hours since first posting I’m thinking the powers that be don’t like those links one little bit.”
Nana join the club. Over the last 2 /3 weeks or so many of my posts have just disappeared and I’ve noticed that they seem to be the ones that contain very ‘contentious’ facts, that I’ve managed to unearth.
Additionally taking into account that (online) Wings is at the forefront of the Scottish Independence cause (threat to the State) and reaching thousands of people you can bet your bottom dollar that we are all being monitored by GCHQ.
I’ve also encountered some very strange things going on with my computer and some very strange people hanging around my fairly remote home (with private road access) such as on returning home early one day I caught two well-dressed men walking from my rear garden down my (long) drive. Said they (one older English man / one Scot) were employed by a company planning to build homes in the area which I knew was a load of old garbage. Asked why they were on my property and got no direct answer. Contacted the Council and they agreed with me …. no houses were being built in my area at all. Searched for the name of their company (on the side of their van) to no avail.
I’ve had so many problems with my computer such as it was hacked into last September when I was sending data all over the place pre-Referendum. Someone installed an ex-military type protection on my computer (maybe it’s monitoring me, lol) which is constantly being disabled. I just give up.
Watching Sky news coverage of this is like watching kids on Xmas day getting excited over the new xbox game they’ve just got.
Constantly up at their big screen salivating over the super duper weaponry of Britain’s “unique” bombers, parroting the Fallon line about how the Brimstone can track and destroy a vehicle doing 70mph and kill only the occupants.
Great, so the Daesh guys know they can just put the foot down a bit and they’re in the clear. Or what if they just hijack a civilian car or van and drive that between towns to re-supply etc, the Brimstone knows not to hit them now, right?
According to wiki, the only other airforce to have these super-smart bombs are the Saudis, so since we’re a bit short on planes why don’t we ask them to give us a wee hand n send their bombers up to join ours attacking Daesh, I’m sure they’ll happily oblige…
Petra & Nana
I also had problems posting here 2-3 wks ago.Posts just disappearing into the ether yet others apart from Nana didn’t have a problem with their posts. Same day as Nana had to keep reposting.
Never did find the reason but came back later in the day reposted again & they appeared quite quickly. I put it down to the site being very busy. Perhaps I need to look closer!
Scotland can claim the motto of my kids’ high school.
Libertatem per probitatem.
“Freedom by Integrity”
Part of the UK. *That* UK? No, more than ever.
@Petra
I’ve been posting links on this site for a long time now and have had a few disappear before, but never so many on one day. Considering they were all linked to Syria, Isis funding etc I do find it rather suspicious.
I use two computers and check each one for any glitches regularly and not seeing anything odd. However I’m no expert on these things but I do an ‘expert’ on standby. Will be asking for a computer check up later today.
@ Scot Finlayson says at 12:58 pm
`The BBC are reporting the MOD statement that the RAF planes had advanced sensors that could tell whether or not civilians were present.`
If they have the capability to differentiate between terrorists and civilians every airport, border, high street, etc would be equipped with these `advanced sensors`.
As stated before the second in command of the whole BBC Sir Roger Martyn Carr is in charge of BAE Systems which sells the tools of war, the BBC telling the world how marvellous these weapons are helps sell them and increases the shares of BAE systems which is very good for Sir Roger Martyn Carr.
On your first point Scot every Daesh fighter, and in particular it’s leaders, will be living amongst innocent families, in schools and hospitals. We all know that civilians are being / will continue to be killed but hey who’s going to tell us about that in the CorpMedia here? Additionally there may be few ‘neighbours’ left either to get the word out. A bit like the Jewish situation … people dying and no one knew that they were gone … had ever existed at all.
As to Sir Roger Carr, BBC? Conflict of interests? And we are paying his wages! Have you noticed that Cameron has managed to place his ‘ain folk’ in key positions all over the Country? I’m sure that this happened in Scotland pre-Referendum too, where possible, such as Head of Council in Clackmannanshire … check her out .. her background .. who she was / is connected to.
So, all of the following have decided to take us into war, again…
Why can’t they just go and do the fighting, and leave our troops at home?
The warmongers are:
Adams, Nigel
Afriyie, Adam
Aldous, Peter
Alexander, Heidi
Allan, Lucy
Allen, Heidi
Amess, Sir David
Andrew, Stuart
Ansell, Caroline
Argar, Edward
Atkins, Victoria
Austin, Ian
Bacon, Mr Richard
Bailey, Mr Adrian
Baker, Mr Steve
Baldwin, Harriett
Barclay, Stephen
Barron, rh Kevin
Bebb, Guto
Beckett, rh Margaret
Bellingham, Mr Henry
Benn, rh Hilary
Benyon, Richard
Beresford, Sir Paul
Berry, Jake
Berry, James
Bingham, Andrew
Blackman, Bob
Blackwood, Nicola
Blenkinsop, Tom
Blunt, Crispin
Boles, Nick
Bone, Mr Peter
Borwick, Victoria
Bottomley, Sir Peter
Bradley, Karen
Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben
Brady, Mr Graham
Brake, rh Tom
Brazier, Mr Julian
Bridgen, Andrew
Brine, Steve
Brokenshire, rh James
Bruce, Fiona
Bryant, Chris
Buckland, Robert
Burns, Conor
Burns, rh Sir Simon
Burrowes, Mr David
Burt, rh Alistair
Cairns, Alun
Cameron, rh Mr David
Campbell, rh Mr Alan
Campbell, Mr Gregory
Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair
Carmichael, Neil
Carswell, Mr Douglas
Cartlidge, James
Cash, Sir William
Caulfield, Maria
Chalk, Alex
Chapman, Jenny
Chishti, Rehman
Churchill, Jo
Clark, rh Greg
Clegg, rh Mr Nick
Cleverly, James
Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey
Coaker, Vernon
Coffey, Ann
Coffey, Dr Thérèse
Collins, Damian
Colvile, Oliver
Cooper, rh Yvette
Costa, Alberto
Cox, Mr Geoffrey
Coyle, Neil
Crabb, rh Stephen
Creagh, Mary
Crouch, Tracey
David, Wayne
Davies, Byron
Davies, Chris
Davies, David T. C.
Davies, Glyn
Davies, Dr James
Davies, Mims
Davies, Philip
Dinenage, Caroline
Djanogly, Mr Jonathan
Dodds, rh Mr Nigel
Donaldson, rh Mr Jeffrey M.
Donelan, Michelle
Dorries, Nadine
Double, Steve
Doughty, Stephen
Dowd, Jim
Dowden, Oliver
Drax, Richard
Drummond, Mrs Flick
Duddridge, James
Dugher, Michael
Duncan, rh Sir Alan
Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain
Dunne, Mr Philip
Eagle, Ms Angela
Eagle, Maria
Elliott, Tom
Ellis, Michael
Ellison, Jane
Ellman, Mrs Louise
Ellwood, Mr Tobias
Elphicke, Charlie
Eustice, George
Evans, Graham
Evans, Mr Nigel
Evennett, rh Mr David
Fabricant, Michael
Fallon, rh Michael
Farron, Tim
Fernandes, Suella
Field, rh Frank
Field, rh Mark
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Flint, rh Caroline
Foster, Kevin
Fox, rh Dr Liam
Francois, rh Mr Mark
Frazer, Lucy
Freeman, George
Freer, Mike
Fuller, Richard
Fysh, Marcus
Gale, Sir Roger
Garnier, rh Sir Edward
Garnier, Mark
Gauke, Mr David
Ghani, Nusrat
Gibb, Mr Nick
Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl
Glen, John
Goldsmith, Zac
Goodwill, Mr Robert
Gove, rh Michael
Graham, Richard
Grant, Mrs Helen
Gray, Mr James
Grayling, rh Chris
Green, Chris
Green, rh Damian
Greening, rh Justine
Grieve, rh Mr Dominic
Griffiths, Andrew
Gummer, Ben
Gyimah, Mr Sam
Halfon, rh Robert
Hall, Luke
Hammond, rh Mr Philip
Hammond, Stephen
Hancock, rh Matthew
Hands, rh Greg
Harman, rh Ms Harriet
Harper, rh Mr Mark
Harrington, Richard
Harris, Rebecca
Hart, Simon
Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan
Hayes, rh Mr John
Heald, Sir Oliver
Heappey, James
Heaton-Harris, Chris
Heaton-Jones, Peter
Henderson, Gordon
Herbert, rh Nick
Hermon, Lady
Hinds, Damian
Hoare, Simon
Hodge, rh Dame Margaret
Hollingbery, George
Hollinrake, Kevin
Hopkins, Kris
Howarth, rh Mr George
Howarth, Sir Gerald
Howell, John
Howlett, Ben
Huddleston, Nigel
Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy
Hunt, Tristram
Hurd, Mr Nick
Jackson, Mr Stewart
James, Margot
Jarvis, Dan
Javid, rh Sajid
Jayawardena, Mr Ranil
Jenkin, Mr Bernard
Jenkyns, Andrea
Jenrick, Robert
Johnson, rh Alan
Johnson, Boris
Johnson, Gareth
Johnson, Joseph
Jones, Andrew
Jones, rh Mr David
Jones, Graham
Jones, Helen
Jones, Mr Kevan
Jones, Mr Marcus
Jones, Susan Elan
Kawczynski, Daniel
Kendall, Liz
Kennedy, Seema
Kinahan, Danny
Kirby, Simon
Knight, rh Sir Greg
Knight, Julian
Kwarteng, Kwasi
Kyle, Peter
Lancaster, Mark
Latham, Pauline
Leadsom, Andrea
Lee, Dr Phillip
Lefroy, Jeremy
Leslie, Charlotte
Leslie, Chris
Letwin, rh Mr Oliver
Lewis, Brandon
Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian
Lidington, rh Mr David
Lilley, rh Mr Peter
Lopresti, Jack
Lord, Jonathan
Loughton, Tim
Lumley, Karen
Mackinlay, Craig
Mackintosh, David
Main, Mrs Anne
Mak, Mr Alan
Malthouse, Kit
Mann, Scott
Mathias, Dr Tania
May, rh Mrs Theresa
Maynard, Paul
McCartney, Jason
McCartney, Karl
McDonagh, Siobhain
McFadden, rh Mr Pat
McGinn, Conor
McGovern, Alison
McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick
Menzies, Mark
Mercer, Johnny
Merriman, Huw
Metcalfe, Stephen
Miller, rh Mrs Maria
Milling, Amanda
Mills, Nigel
Milton, rh Anne
Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew
Mordaunt, Penny
Morgan, rh Nicky
Morris, Anne Marie
Morris, David
Morris, James
Morton, Wendy
Mowat, David
Mulholland, Greg
Mundell, rh David
Murray, Mrs Sheryll
Murrison, Dr Andrew
Neill, Robert
Newton, Sarah
Nokes, Caroline
Norman, Jesse
Nuttall, Mr David
Offord, Dr Matthew
Opperman, Guy
Osborne, rh Mr George
Paisley, Ian
Parish, Neil
Patel, rh Priti
Paterson, rh Mr Owen
Pawsey, Mark
Penning, rh Mike
Penrose, John
Percy, Andrew
Perry, Claire
Phillips, Stephen
Phillipson, Bridget
Philp, Chris
Pickles, rh Sir Eric
Pincher, Christopher
Poulter, Dr Daniel
Pow, Rebecca
Prentis, Victoria
Prisk, Mr Mark
Pritchard, Mark
Pugh, John
Pursglove, Tom
Quin, Jeremy
Quince, Will
Raab, Mr Dominic
Redwood, rh John
Reed, Mr Jamie
Reed, Mr Steve
Rees-Mogg, Mr Jacob
Reynolds, Emma
Robertson, Mr Laurence
Robinson, Gavin
Robinson, Mary
Rosindell, Andrew
Rudd, rh Amber
Rutley, David
Ryan, rh Joan
Sandbach, Antoinette
Scully, Paul
Selous, Andrew
Shannon, Jim
Shapps, rh Grant
Sharma, Alok
Shelbrooke, Alec
Simpson, David
Simpson, rh Mr Keith
Skidmore, Chris
Smeeth, Ruth
Smith, Angela
Smith, Chloe
Smith, Henry
Smith, Julian
Smith, Royston
Soames, rh Sir Nicholas
Solloway, Amanda
Soubry, rh Anna
Spellar, rh Mr John
Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline
Spencer, Mark
Stephenson, Andrew
Stevenson, John
Stewart, Bob
Stewart, Iain
Stewart, Rory
Streeter, Mr Gary
Stride, Mel
Stuart, rh Ms Gisela
Stuart, Graham
Sturdy, Julian
Sunak, Rishi
Swayne, rh Mr Desmond
Swire, rh Mr Hugo
Syms, Mr Robert
Thomas, Derek
Thomas, Mr Gareth
Throup, Maggie
Timpson, Edward
Tolhurst, Kelly
Tomlinson, Justin
Tomlinson, Michael
Tracey, Craig
Tredinnick, David
Trevelyan, Mrs Anne-Marie
Truss, rh Elizabeth
Tugendhat, Tom
Turley, Anna
Umunna, Mr Chuka
Vaizey, Mr Edward
Vara, Mr Shailesh
Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa
Walker, Mr Charles
Walker, Mr Robin
Wallace, Mr Ben
Warburton, David
Warman, Matt
Watkinson, Dame Angela
Wharton, James
Whately, Helen
Wheeler, Heather
White, Chris
Whittaker, Craig
Whittingdale, rh Mr John
Wiggin, Bill
Williams, Craig
Williamson, rh Gavin
Wilson, Phil
Wilson, Mr Rob
Wilson, Sammy
Wollaston, Dr Sarah
Wood, Mike
Woodcock, John
Wragg, William
Wright, rh Jeremy
Zahawi, Nadhim
@Rev Stu
As I said in an earlier post “I understand Rev has to approve”
In the past I have posted links which did not show and other wingers seem to having similar problems.
Anyhow perhaps I should just post 2 or three links at a time, would that be better?
mike cassidy at 12:24pm
“What kind of Harry Potter fantasy bullshit is this?”
The same kind of Harry Potter fantasy bullshit they feed you on every other topic.
@ Barbara McKenzie says at 2:56 am ”He (George Galloway) has been one of the very few politicians who hasn’t bought into the Butcher of Damascus line (being a continuation of the Joan of Arc was a witch, Napoleon ate babies, Ares Velouchiotis was a sadist, Arthur Scargill was corrupt, Jeremy Corbyn is the new Hitler version of history, ie the mendacious denigration of anyone who gets in the way of the British establishment).”
Thanks for the insightful post and video Barbara. I agree that this is one of the dictatorships greatest weapons and they have been using it for centuries now …. ramped up at crucial times like this. Distort your history; the truth with regard to situations, countries, individuals and in particular demonise people with the key aim of brainwashing you and I into accepting, even positively supporting, their actions.
For example (another to add to the list) some people considered Mummar Gaddafi to be a hero, others a demon. We of course were fed in the West with the 100% demon version …. Libya had alotta, lotta oil (just like Syria).
One issue that we were never informed of was that one of Gaddafi’s main goals in life was to influence and expand communications not only for his own country, but the continent of Africa as a whole.
At the end of the 20th century, communications to and from Africa with the rest of the world cost a fortune ($500 million being paid in annual leasing fees at that time) since foreign satellites had to be utilized for any kind of intercontinental telecommunication.
Knowing that the fees would become more and more expensive forty five African nations got together and formed RASCOM (Regional African Satellite Communication Organization) in 1992.
RASCOM’s goal was to pool together African collateral along with borrowing from The World Bank and The IMF to purchase and install an African satellite. Fourteen years went by with the international banks dragging their feet. Their actions indicated to RASCOM that the Western powers didn’t want to relinquish their extortionately high priced satellite leasing fees.
Gaddafi then decided to deal with the situation himself by providing $300 million of the $500 million required. The rest was borrowed, with help from Gaddafi, from two African banks. This meant that the Africans now had total control over their communications.
By 2007 the entire continent of Africa received its first (African owned) communications satellite. Gaddafi died in 2011. So as we in the West applauded and cheered the death of Gaddafi millions in Africa shed tears whilst others vowed to avenge his death …. thousands of them decided to form / join Daesh.
I see some on social media trying to claim that the Tories were not ‘cheering bombs’ but ‘a well-crafted speech’.
Doesn’t wash, sorry. It was a speech in favour of the motion, and in favour of using bombs. Therefore, cheering it amounted to expressing approval for using bombs.
O/T As for JK Rowling, it seems to me that she suffers from plagiarism…
link to themarysue.com
“While some of the films’ themes might seem familiar, Troll‘s owner decided not to sue J. K. Rowling or Warner Bros… because of a family tragedy at the time. They just put it on the back burner… and delayed matters until now.
“There is no problem with doing a remake of Troll because you can remake your own stuff. Everybody knows it was our material. We made the movie years before Rowling came out with her book.”
The original film worth a watch in my view, very amusing 🙂
As the UN Security Council stated on 24 September, counter-terrorism measures that fail to comply with the Charter may contribute to increased radicalisation.
Bombing would impede, not accelerate, a negotiated settlement, as the House of Commons Defence Committee pointed out. The ground troops that would take territory evacuated by ISIS would be al-Nusra and al-Sham terrorists. There would be no military co-ordination or strategy. And the war will be prolonged, worsening the refugee crisis. Nobody (except Russia) will stop NATO member Turkey arming and supplying ISIS.
Given that recent attacks in Britain were sourced from Walthamstow not Raqqa, will Parliament be voting to bomb Walthamstow? The whole thing is a charade – Cameron is trying – again – to get authorisation to aid the USA in its long-term aim of destroying Syria’s secular government.
Petra
Possibly more significant as a reason for Gaddafi’s ousting, IMO, was he was about to launch a pan-African currency backed by gold. The dollar would have tanked. A bit like Saddam, who was threatening to sell Iraqi oil in exchange for Euro.
rog_rocks@2.41,
Very interesting. And how apt that this remake is to be called The Troll, The Rise of Harry Potter. Hasn’t J.K. both goaded and trolled many Indie Supporters over the last few years? Add J.R.R. Tolkien’s the Lord of the Rings Trilogy into the mess and we see her Royal Better Togetherness for what she is. Wonder if I can make a cool Billion by rewriting Little Red Riding Hood? What about making cape blue? Sorted. So that’s my money worries over by becoming a plagiarizing rip off merchant. Keerching.
However I will give my spare millions to the next YES campaign.
Horse faced cow.
Stephen.
Never thought I’d see the day I agreed with Will Podmore 🙂
A battered Corbyn goes down pulling toga over face, “Et tu Brute!”
@ CameronB Brodie says at 3:15 pm ”Petra possibly more significant as a reason for Gaddafi’s ousting, IMO, was he was about to launch a pan-African currency backed by gold. The dollar would have tanked. A bit like Saddam, who was threatening to sell Iraqi oil in exchange for Euro.”
In this case Cameron I was pointing out that the man was not all ‘bbaad’ and many of his more benefic gestures never got / get a mention in the West.
But you’re right the US et al had any number of reasons for wanting rid of him. Strange that neither he nor Saddam were brought to trial but rather murdered. I just wonder if Assad is going to face the same fate?
@ Nana says at 1:51 pm ”Anyhow perhaps I should just post 2 or three links at a time, would that be better?”
Whatever the case Nana keep on posting. I look out for your links because they are ‘factual’. And if I’m really short of time, and can’t read all posts, skim through actually searching for yours.
I wonder how much clapping and cheering will be seen and heard when the first British airman is killed in action and what Cameron, Benn, et.al. will say about it.
Then when the first British airman who is captured alive is shown being beheaded I sincerely hope that Cameron’s smooth smug mug with its sad wee look is screamed and pointed at and the applause and cheers of last night come back to haunt him.
What stance will the media take at each of the above given their current complicitness?
Hilary Benn’s miserable effort in the debate is put into a proper perspective by another very informative Craig Murray article…to be found, of course, on Craig’s web site. It is well worth reading IMO.
I agree with Kenny(3 December, 2015 at 12:32 pm) that Benn’s speech was ‘toe-curlingly, embarrassingly awful’.
I was unimpressed by Tony Blair’s cheap theatricality in 2003, and equally so by Hillary Benn’s of 2015. Content-wise he veered between irrelevancy and dishonesty, with the low point being the outrageous claim that the motivation for bombing Syria was somehow comparable with that of people who joined the International Brigades in Spain.
heedtracker 3 December, 2015 at 9:21 am gave the link to the full text of Benn’s speech.
Alex Salmond made a good point in his impressive LBC interview that Benn was facing an adoring Tory multitude, whereas Corbyn was barracked as soon as he got up. The media has made a big deal of him being applauded on both sides of the House – well, of course he was. (I have already said elsewhere that you know you’ve made it as a Labour politician when you get a standing ovation from the Tories.)
link to lbc.co.uk The full interview is the 2nd screen 2/3rds down.
Petra (3 December, 2015 at 2:28 pm)
Thanks for that angle on Libya Petra (and also Cameron). I am woefully ignorant on the recent war/regime change. But I was always a bit of fan of Gaddafi until he started greasing up to Tony Blair.
I reckon that this is a good time for SNP to make noises about independence, if not for Scotland’s sake, then for the sake of the rest of the world.
I can’t believe this – ALL of these warmongers will have blood on their hands
donnywho says: 3 December, 2015 at 12:48 pm
Ps they also will not explode in the presence of children unless they are going to become terrorists. So there will be no collateral damage and therefore it will not be report
Actually you are correct, Colonel Bob Stuart MP, has said the UK was “very accurate” in its bombing. And I quote him regarding collateral damage “People say the people in the house may be innocent, I say actually our targeting is pretty good too and the people in that house will be something to do with Daesh and if they are something to do with Daesh they support the killing of our people so they are not innocent.”
So when you see those dead toddlers and pensioners just remember they probably were terrorists anyway so that’s all right then.
I wish I could say something but words fail me.
Bob you are a wanker! that will do for now.