Always have a backup
Posted on
February 01, 2014 by
Chris Cairns
The world's most-read Scottish politics website
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Wings Over Scotland is a (mainly) Scottish political media digest and monitor, which also offers its own commentary. (More)
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Wings Over ScotlandA tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
Absolutely brilliant!
Only regret it that it is not a Panda or two but, Hamish will do for me.
Fantastic – I look forward to the day we can start spending our “Hamishes” in the local corner shop!
(The upside of this is we could also start out debt-free, freeing up millions in repayments that could go straight into the oil fund.)
#wolf last night Rev. I will make sure I tell the grandkids of this day LOL
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/Pages/about/s_ni_faq.aspx if they choose to accept it.
Not bad rates http://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/one-pound-note-scotland if we can convert our every used note to these.
Ivan McKee on GMS discussing this now.
Superb cartoon!
Does peatworrier know Hamish has borrowed his syrup?
It is plan C, D and E also.Sterling it is. We will just have to accept ceding the amount of sovereignty that does not allow us (and rUK) to act irresponsibly like Greece,Spain,Brown and Darling.
Darling and Balls are now frothing at the mouth as they try to deny Scotland and out Tory the Tories.
Banks in Scotland had the right to print bank notes. Never a borrower or a lender be. Scotland would be at least £10Billion+ better off a year if Independent. No Trident, illegal wars, no debt repayments (on monies not borrowed or spent). A tax on cheap ‘loss leading’ drink, etc. Better infrastructure would help the economy. Admnistration/Defence/Renewable jobs in Scotland would add to the economy. Instead of increasing the congested southern flood plains.
I thought for a minute it said “THIEF EXECUTIVE” under the signature.
If we print these off now can we spend them?
Can we get rid of the word Royal and put in National instead
O/T: Proud Cybernat badges on sale now – as advertised in the Scottish Daily Mail!
http://logicsrock.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/proud-cybernat-badges-on-sale-now-as.html
Their used to be hundreds of independant banks in Scotland the goverment of the time dident like this so they were all rolled into one the TSB. Yes it is time we had a national bank whoes notes are backed by sterling silver, not more fiat currency.
When they ask Mr Salmond about plan ‘B’ they already know the answer. Mr Carney also is very aware, hence the tip toeing around the issue. It’s the not to be mentioned option.
Currency union then after a suitable period we can float Hamish on the markets and very popular he will be.
PS
I like this… OH YES!
http://archive.is/YBRmv
“Britain today is constructed on a slope, with much of the money and talent rolling towards Boris Johnson. That can’t be right”
From this fine Aberdeen morn’s ever weirder Guardian Scotland news section about a journo from York going back to York after a career in London. His theme for the day? Wants UK money, talent, transport investment to roll back to the North of England, with Scotland paying for it too, as per.
I am so not a unionist.
I’ve always thought a Scottish government after independence should look into the use of complimentary currencies.
http://freico.in is one interesting one based on the same tech as bitcoin but which charges a demurrage fee automatically.
The most interesting one was the stamp scrip introduced by the mayor of Worgl during the great depression. I think a modernied version of stamp scrip using digital technology and backed by the Scottish government would transform Scotland. You can read all about it here.
http://www.lietaer.com/2010/03/the-worgl-experiment/
Noteworthy
IGMC
Prof Curtice had a piece in the Guardian the other day which actually quite interesting and discussed currency as an issue. His view is that the No side are overplaying thw whole thing.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/30/pound-euro-scottish-voters-currency-independent-scotland
Boorach
Listened to GMS this morning and enjoyed Ivan McKee taking Better Together’s Alan smith apart.
It got so bad for Alan Smith that he started spouted unconstructed argument that even the BBC presenter/interviewer queried what smith was coming out with
Could enjoy reading (and sharing) a Wings style dissection of the BBC’s view in all of this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25945688
I have just found “Leithal Yak”, I’m sorry I’ve been so slow.
Brilliant stuff!
“No side are overplaying thw whole thing” or fear is the key! What wealthy chaps like Prof Curtice always manage to forget/ignore is just how many Scots have virtually no UK pounds now and they earn tiny amounts of these pounds for very long hours and get taxed hard to boot.
The attitude of the British Government & indeed of the English media (including The Herald & The Scotsman) towards the Euro is to constantly rubbish the idea of the European currency union because they claim it has been a disaster.
Sure, there have been problems with member states mismanaging their economy (ironic that the UK which will have 1.5 trillion pounds of debt (>95% of GDP) by the next UK general election).
This is nevertheless somewhat at odds with reality; the Euro has steadily increased in value against Pounds Sterling over the last 15 years (coincidentally at the same time the Scottish Parliament returned to Edinburgh). You can pick a date to move the rate around but it is in the 15% to 20% range.
In essence then their is a chronic narrative to downplay a currency union even though it has performed better than the pound.
I expect then that this narrative will be repeated & continued regarding Scotland’s decision to return to full sovereign independence.
It won’t matter that Scotland’s GDP is higher than the rUK or that unemployment is lower or that the debt to GDP ratio in Scotland is lower than that in rUK. And it won’t matter that Scotland is controlled by a unicameral system while rUK continues with an unelected house of >700 peers & English Bishops.
The British will remain in complete denial that their country is effectively financially & morally bankrupt. And will continue to rubbish Scotland long into the future.
This is what happens when empires crumble & once financially strong countries slowly disintegrate as they slide down towards 2nd class/Tim Henman/Bolton Wanderers status.
Graham Avery, Senior Policy Adviser, European Policy Centre – Parliamentry Channel – discussing EU. Euro not a problem
Patricia Ferguson – Labour Maryhill – not happy
Nothing in Treaty (EU) to capitalise on geographical States. All good for EU on balance, Scottish membership. No policies on big or large State. Interesting. Smaller States prevail.
‘On Indepentistem EU is neutral’.
David
Ah the Peston piece which managed to take a technical piece designed to be non-political and turn into in a Unionist piece. Son of a Labour Peer Robert has a knack of annoying, although by and large I think it is usually the political right in England that are throwing darts at his picture.
Doesn’t have to join Euro, unless it wants to and meets the criteria. Sweden hasn’t. Has to meet trading rules in or out.
Oh Wee Lamentable thingy
@heedtracker
I’ve seen you mention oftentimes the rabid pro-Union bias that The Press & Journal print.
I have known one of the editors there for many years (although I haven’t spoken to, or seen this person for a while). This person is a fully paid-up member of the Labour party who is very much best of pals with the one and only “Alex Salmond has lost credibilty by not being honest and must now consider his position as First Minister.”(circa 2012) Brian Wilson. Now I’m not making any allegations here, but you can make up your own mind.
That, and being owned by Tories, D. C. Thomson & Co. Ltd, makes for a fine pro-Better Together MSM contribution – allegedly – don’t you think?
That’s grand, Chris.
The £ has fallen against the Euro. The Euro is stronger. £ was €1.44 now €1.21
The UK Treasury is printing money devaluing, not paying off debts. It increases UK – EU contributions £1/2Billion.
The country in the EU most affected by the banking crash were borrowing on London unregulated lending markets. Spain, Portugal (holiday homes) IR (housing boom) Iceland -two corrupt bankers buying British companies. When Iceland (1/2million pop) gov can to sell off the assets, the (inflated) value had fallen.
Thatcher demutualised the Building Societies owned by their members and deregulated the Banking sector, so the Tory bankers could gamble the Mortgage book. The UK/US banks were allowed to delevaged from 25% to 13%. Reagan/Thatcher/Clinton/Brown. ‘Inside Job’.
Completely off topic sorry. (The pound issue is a side show no brainer as the cartoon depicts – let BT get on with it)
But this was just a thought.
Was wondering if anyone else thought there might be an avenue for development of YES clubs / Independence clubs where all like minded folk could meet up socially, after September. (along the lines of Labour clubs etc, dotted all over Scotland); to keep the momentum going right up to the actual Independence day.
Anyone else have a view ?
OT
If you only read on thing today, make sure it is this demolition of World War I porn by Brither Bell in the Herald…
Sentimental romantic nostalgic Tory British nationalism spit roasted to perfection…
http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/comment/columnists/why-must-the-long-dead-be-called-up-to-fight-for-union.23316845
An Aberdeen taxi driver has decked out his taxi in Yes. Others are going to follow suit. Imagine the Yes/Satires flying by September.
It has been an good week
The poll at the beginning showing us closing the gap, Carney, despite the press bluster, outlining how a currency union would work, Jackson’s bizarre intervention in the national bird vote, Lang’s offensive bagsying of the political allegiance of all war dead since 1707, and Johann’s weegate episode which has earned her serious brick bats in the Labour press. I can’t see Labour replacing her now and this is good. Then to cap it all we had the damp squib that was the 500,000 leaflets campaign where at the drop of a hat we had more people at the stations than they did.
It has been so busy that some of that stuff has got lost in the general noise but we should come back to Jackson and Lang’s comments as they are useful in that they remind people just how dismissive the Tories are of Scotland. Johann’s faux pas will I am sure run and run.
No one believes the P&J. The N/E is a SNP stronghold and the majority are quite comfortable with Independence, Well supported. They see the meters running.
The N/E has run out of Yes newspapers and there are plenty of volunteers to distribute them.
@Dal Riata. The Press and Journal are printing really awful stuff about Salmond and demonising is too soft a word to describe it. Its probably the local follow through from that BetterTogether goodbye money leaflet wash out but today they’re monstering Salmond on front page banner headlines over executive earning £3500 per day. I didn’t read the small print as you don’t really have to to get their message. Just like BBC Scotland, P&J hates 4 things above all else, Alex Salmond, YES Scotland, Scottish democracy/government, Scottish renewable energy.
Our gentlemen and ladies of the press are conducting a full scale no prisoners propaganda war and its going to be fascinating to see if they’re any good at it.
The uk ESTABLISHMENT have had a disastrous campaign up till now. HMG, LABOUR THE PROUD PSUDO MIDDLE CLASS SCOTS (ie the unionist parties) the only thing that stops them falling apart are scare stories and lies broadcast by their propaganda units, MSM + BBC etc.
Why if the English establishment think we are such a lost cause do they frantically want to hold onto us, by belittling us, bad mouthing us and stabbing us in the back at every opportunity, then tell us how poor, stupid and wee that we are, and need them to look after us simpletons.
If we loose this referendum then the ENGLISH ESTABLISHMENT will have been proved correct, and the ones to hang their head will be the proud fealty Scots who can live with the consequences and try to explain to their kids a
Sorry about that finger trouble.
Finish previous post.
Explain to their kids and grand kids how they sold their futures out of fear and selfishness.
Gordoz
“… development of YES clubs / Independence clubs where all like minded folk could meet up socially, after September. (along the lines of Labour clubs etc, dotted all over Scotland); to keep the momentum going right up to the actual Independence day.”
I personally think that is a great idea. Maybe drop the reference to ‘Yes’/independence in order to unify everyone and focus all Scottish citizens on successful negotiations. It’s the beginning of our combined futures that is at stake.
Obviously there are lots of tough steps ahead, but for me one of the key stand out things is a written Constitution. We need to make sure that this Constitution does not fall under the ownership of political parties.
Organised political parties have a habit of ultimately disenfranchising people – they tend to make things seem too complicated, change being beyond ordinary people’s reach, making people feel small, …
The referendum has shown the importance of individual people and diverse groups working together to get things done.
Murray McCallum
agree – just a starting point
HandandShrimp at 10.19
I agree with Curtice on this. The NAWs are chasing about on a number of issues which do not hugely resonate with ra people and imagining they are striking great blows against YES on them. I’m sure the YES team are happy to have them tied up chasing about in the undergrowth.
What a lot of people on our side don’t seem to grasp however is that the SNP position on a shared currency is a huge problem for the NAWs. We have them by the balls on this. They would rather have us declare for separate Scottish currency then they could pour scorn on it – you know the sort of stuff – is it ten sporrans to the groat then and so on.. it will have no value with international markets.. it will be unstable with no credit rating etc etc etc..
We are very fortunate indeed to be led by a team that is about three steps ahead of the opposition on all issues.
A more real worry we could also face is that Scotland coming out of sterling could easily promote a collapse of sterling. At or around the point of independence that could do great damage to the Scottish economy. Enlightened self interest may not always be very satisfying but it’s very wise. Stability is absolutely essential initially.
The unionists would like to be hinting that if Scotland foolishly decided for independence as it foundered they could generously come to its assistance with a comforting currency union – but better not to take the chance,eh?
But instead wee Scotland is offering THEM a comforting currency union and they are on the wrong foot.
Independence of course means that we can at any point in the future decide a different currency arrangement.
@dalriata etc
P&J is “going their dinger” today with the anti Salmond/anti SNP/anti Yes bile.
However there is one beacon of light, a gem of a letter from David McEwan Hill comprehensively dealing with the currency issue.
370HSSV 0773H
This cipher message was received by the No campaign headquarters this morning. They had a lot of difficulty trying to decipher it until it was realised that they were reading it upside down. Nasty Nats are believed to be responsible.
Scottish one pound notes are basically a separate currency already, shops in England don’t accept them! Not in my experience anyway.
Program on BBC Parliament channel tonight at 10:05 “Sterling and Scottish Independence”
I have read posts indicating why the Scottish Government don’t state what their plan B is. I don’t really understand why they don’t just state that unilateral use of Sterling/Scottish £ pegged to Sterling is indeed their plan B.
The unionists know they are bluffing when they hint at not agreeing to a formal Sterling union, and they don’t actually rule it out. Nevertheless, this creates an “uncertainty” for MSM to plug, or enables them to exaggerate the unionist reticence (i.e. lie) and state that it is not available as an option.
Unilateral use of Sterling definitely is available. Ireland followed this mechanism for 50 years. They even changed from £sd to decimal on the same day as the UK, 15 February 1971, and their coins were the same size and shape. Irish currency was widely accepted in areas round Irish Sea ports.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_pound
The mechanism is broadly what already happens with Scottish bank notes, which are all backed by deposits of Sterling, guaranteeing the 1 for 1 fixed value. The only difference with Ireland and Indy Scotland is that the deposits would be held, and notes issued, by the government rather than commercial banks, and coins would be issued too.
Other currency options are available.
@ G H Graham
It’s not just their view.
The Spanish government was running budget surpluses before the crash; the ‘fiscally prudent’ position. It was the private sector housing bubble and global crash that wrecked the Spanish economy, and then it was the euro and its deficit restrictions that prevented the government from fixing it.
UK debt is already at around 97% of GDP. And yes, the irony is that Spanish debt is at the same sort of level; projected to rise to 99% of GDP by the end of 2014.
UK unemployment is at just over 7%, and falling.
Spanish unemployment is at just over 26%, and rising.
Twenty six.
Yes, the euro is higher against sterling than it was seven years ago, but lower than it was three years ago. Do the tens of millions across Europe whose lives have been wrecked care much about that? The UK government says it wants to boost exports. A lower currency value helps exports.
Germany has benefited from the euro, or at least its companies have, because it runs consistent current account surpluses; something which is not true for most countries and is impossible for all. But that German ‘success’ is built on wage suppression; unemployment is low but record numbers of working Germans are now living in poverty.
The UK government has failed dismally in meeting the needs of its citizens, especially those outside London and the south-east. Scotland has the potential to be significantly better off, and not just financially, with independence. But none of that negates the fact that the euro is a disaster.
@Early Ball
“However there is one beacon of light, a gem of a letter from David McEwan Hill comprehensively dealing with the currency issue.”
David – could you post that letter here?
@ G H Graham
It’s not just their view.
The Spanish government was running budget surpluses before the crash; the ‘fiscally prudent’ position. It was the private sector housing bubble and global crash that wrecked the Spanish economy, and then it was the euro and its deficit restrictions that prevented the government from fixing it.
UK debt is already at around 97% of GDP. And yes, the irony is that Spanish debt is at the same sort of level; projected to rise to 99% of GDP by the end of 2014.
UK unemployment is at just over 7%, and falling.
Spanish unemployment is at just over 26%, and rising.
Twenty six percent.
Yes, the euro is higher against sterling than it was seven years ago, but lower than it was three years ago. Do the tens of millions across Europe whose lives have been wrecked care much about that? The UK government says it wants to boost exports. A lower currency value helps exports.
Germany has benefited from the euro, or at least its companies have, because it runs consistent current account surpluses; something which is not true for most countries and is impossible for all. But that German ‘success’ is built on wage suppression; unemployment is low but record numbers of working Germans are now living in poverty.
The UK government has failed dismally in meeting the needs of its citizens, especially those outside London and the south-east. Scotland has the potential to be significantly better off, and not just financially, with independence. But none of that negates the fact that the euro is a disaster.
Whoops. Apologies for the double post. At least there are no <cite> tags.
@gordoz
That whole Yes campaign meeting place idea might be a good one.
If nothing else, it’ll create a more visible “public front” which will put down those Daily Hate-Mail articles about the Cybernats huddling anonymously in their bedrooms, typing away.
Nope, they’re out meeting in public places, not afraid to show their allegiance! 🙂
Just watch out for Westminster goons trying to blow up the building with us all inside! Really wouldn’t put it past them! 😉
Oneironaut
Surely that was Murphy’s worst nightmare? Evil cybernats that are able to walk in daylight. They will go into shops, meet on streets, participate in debates, vote…be just like real people!
Oh the humanity!
@Montey Carlow
Yes; Ecuador uses the US dollar, despite open hostility from the US government. It works for them, as using sterling would probably work for Scotland, because of oil exports and the resulting current account surpluses. It only works as long as the oil creates that surplus though.
A big difference is that for most of the 50 year Irish peg all ‘western’ currencies were part of either the gold standard or the later fixed* exchange rate gold exchange standard. Once that ended the Irish peg only lasted 6 years, or 8, depending which date you take.
*It changed with the introduction of Special Drawing Rights in ’68, but that failed to prevent the system collapsing.
Funny,can I have one?
Chris,love this graphic. Looking forward to the time when we can see one of these for real 🙂
Monty Carlow at 12.40
I batter out letters on a daily basis all over the place
Might be this one I sent out on Thursday. (I sent a longer one yesterday but with less hope of getting publication)
“The Governor of the Bank of England comes up to Scotland to sensibly discus post independence options , says exactly what the SNP has always said and we are told this is a blow to the YES campaign . Do all our heads button up the back?
Meanwhile the UKs biggest bookmaker is giving 1/100 that there will be a currency union. It’s odd indeed when you have to go to the bookies to hear the truth .
As Scotland has zero sovereignty at the moment the intended implication in a frantic unionist response that ceding a little of our new independent sovereignty is somehow less than our present position is patent nonsense.
Some of the Scottish media is doing itself a lot of harm by promoting lines that can only be swallowed by half wits and we are reaching the situation when nobody can have any confidence in anything it says. “
Chris Cairns, as per usual,your on the ball, a wee + sign at the £ would have been a killer blow,I,ve printed them oot fur ma G/Daughter, tae take to her school.
Or this one?
“Judging by a range of opinions expressed since our visit from the Bank of England Governor Mark Carney we appear to have elected an unrepresentative selection of our population to our parliaments.
I wouldn’t like to think that some of these tribunes of the people were deliberately distorting what they say with a view to deceiving the people of Scotland .
In charity therefore I’ll assume we have chosen simple folk to represent us who, unlike our more typically better informed people, haven’t quite grasped a fairly simple concept.
This is the concept of sovereignty. At the moment Scotland has no sovereignty. When we chose to be independent at that point we assume total sovereignty. We may then choose freely to cede some sovereignty by sharing it with others on, for instance, a defence pact or a currency union. However should these not work out as we wish we can, as we are independent, adapt these arrangements or in fact cancel them. That is sovereignty. That is what devo max is not.
Understanding of this has proved elusive for some of our elected members who appear to have convinced themselves – and appear to be trying to convince many others – that Scotland having no sovereignty at all, as is the present case, is actually more powerful than Scotland having complete independence.
I suppose this is the same contradictory debility that leads them to insist that what Mr Carney meant was actually the opposite of what he said.
The real consequence of this is that those in the media who seek to assist and support these political figures by energetically publicising their bizarre opinions are inadvertently accelerating their destruction (and their own credibility as journalists) at the same time.”
The P&J, EE on the case of the Police Call centre being moved to Dundee, leading the campaign, along with unelected (lost big time) Lewis McDonald. No one gives a damn, except the folk who worked there, who will easily find another job (full employment) There is a comprehensive centre being set up in Inverness for full NS emergencies.
Workers are being killed in the NS Oil industry because UK gov Health & Safety Rules are not being implemented by UK gov administration.
McDonald used to complain about roads not being built, while sending out letters to all constituents (public funded?), telling them to complain against the road building when ever the matter was raised. Total hypocrite.
Re Great Baldo at 10:52
I read Ian Bell’s main comment article in the Herald today and looked forward to reading the coments online.
The Herald appear to have “disappeared” it from the online version.
I found this link to Ian Bell’s article by searching using his profile.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/columnists/why-must-the-long-dead-be-called-up-to-fight-for-union.23316845
Unable to see past the first two paragraphs. It claims to be loading the rest of the content.
Mr Bell has a compelling article on this toady… (Freudian slip) today.
http://archive.is/ZZ5h2
A rough estimate of the final score at Johnstone station yesterday over both sessions would seem to indicate a 6-4 home win for the Wingers.
I say home win as not one of the family of three I talked to were from, or lived in Johnstone. I got talking to the elderly UKOK patriarch for a while – old school trade unionist,,retired engineer,,lifelong socialist – in other words the kind of guy I would normally enjoy a pint with. Like reports I have been given about what the other ukokkers said to our guys it seems they really hate Salmond and Sturgeon.
Did not see any of the other Wingers, but have been reliably briefed on their feedback to Red Leader. So hello Mosstrooper, MadMurph, CUTommy, and the others.
Has anyone pointed out that the UK Government presently cedes some sovereignty to the Bank of England?
Rather late in the day but I happened to be getting off a train in Dundee from Glasgow yesterday at 0720, there were 3 people giving out leaflets, some folks were taking them though I had to get going so not sure how many etc.
@Albert Herring
The Bank of England is solely owned by the UK Treasury. It began as a private institution, but since 1946 it has been part of the government. How do you cede sovereignty to yourself?
@David McEwan Hill
It was the first one David. They left out your final paragraph. Much appreciated work.
@FlimFlamMan
Because of its independence in setting monetary policy.
An independent Scotland will also be part-owner.
Autonomy may be a better word.
@Albert Herring
In some limited sense perhaps, with no ability to actually determine monetary policy. Westminster would be mad to give up that control, and even madder to give up the control over deficit spending that would come with the sort of fiscal pact Carney was talking about.
Scotland may be mad too, even in the short term; I really need to look at what Scotland’s current account position will be after independence.
Yes, it’s better. Better still would be “delegated responsibility”, just as with the various ministries and civil service departments. The point being that they are all part of government, with different decisions being taken by different parts.
IDS makes decisions at Work and Pensions, but he’d soon find out he’s not sovereign, or even autonomous, if he did something the rest of cabinet, and particularly Cameron/Osborne really didn’t want. Same goes for the Bank of England.