Irony circuits overloaded
Posted on
September 25, 2012 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
We’re having a technical issue trying to cope with the content of Johann Lamont’s extraordinary speech of earlier today. We’ll have some analysis for you just as soon as we’ve replaced some blown fuses and cleaned up all the soot.
Meanwhile, Wullie’s attempting to persuade the neighbours that Scots unionist MPs voting for NHS privatisation, fees for higher education etc in England while this doesn’t happen in Scotland is a good thing.
link to bbc.co.uk
Maybe it’s because nobody is listening in Scotland now the Libs have gone Tory?
I wonder if Dave and Gideon will do the same?
You see my fellow Tories, I know the Scots hate our party, stopped us from getting a majority then stuck two fingers up at / embarrassed blighty by organising a referendum on independence, but really we do want them to stay. I mean they could even hold the balance of power come 2015, blocking us again. Now I know that doesn’t sound good but….
Wullie is an embarassment to all Wullie’s!
They found her then Stu? 😆
Damn it S.S. beat me to it AGAIN! 😀
Still once you have recovered from the aching sides produced by reading about oor Willie, who left his cage door open AGAIN!, you can have a wee read of this.
link to bbc.co.uk
Dearie, dearie me. Is it just me or are the unionists REALLY getting panicky now?
And here’s me thinking that the SILLY season, politically speaking, was over!
You have my best wishes in trying to locate your replacement fuses and clearing out all the soot. Looking forward to reading about Lamont’s venture into the big bad world.
Just tried to read it over on the Labour website link to scottishlabour.org.uk.
Sorry, Rev. Stu I couldn’t finish it – I got less than half way. So I will look forward to your usual analysis to save me a few minutes of torture and a complete waste of ten minutes of my life.
If the rest echoed the first half, then she inhabits a parallel universe!
@Arbroath1320,
Oh dear God! I was really hoping that was a link to the BBC Scotlandshire spoof site but it’s quite real! Are the Orange Order high or something?
So Scottish Labour’s vote winning strategy is tuition fees and higher council tax! Labour is imploding, its a wonderful sight – these are great days were living.
“John Swinney is, as the unions have said, ‘Osborne in a kilt.’”
Tartan Tory smear…
“And let’s be clear when we repeat that John Swinney is George Osborne in a kilt”
And then just incase you didnt get it the first time…
Ed must be back from holiday now that it looks like Johann Lamont has been instructed to follow the party line at Red Tory headquarters London. No policies, no vision, just agree with Dave and Gideon.
So something was up then…
Ok. Scottish Labour are going to target the Tory vote now. They’ll hammer those nasty disabled people that are taking us all for a ride. Poor? It’s your own fault you lazy wasters. Minimum wage? That’ll have to go…’too something for nothing’
This will have come from London. Works well in the SE. Problem in Scotland is that there’s not a Tory vote to chase…
The split in the Scottish Labour party will come next as those who are actually more centrist to left leaning break away.
Good Grief. It’s almost as if Labour want us to vote YES in the referendum.
Johann Lamont, Leader of the New Scottish Conservative & Unionist Party, was unavailable for comment.
Ruth and Murdo will be worried about this; Labour looking to take seats off them now.
“Alex Salmond says he’ll make Scotland a progressive beacon.”
“Well, I have to ask what is progressive about a banker on more than 100,000 a year benefitting more than a customer on average incomes from the council tax freeze?”
Wow this is box of frogs madness… the banker on £100k is getting a modest improvement ontheir finances comapred to an absolutely vital difference for the poorest in society.
Labour Policy = The poor should pay more of the little money they have so that we can also charge the rich a wee bit more.
Effect = Poor worse off
“What is progressive about a chief executive on more than 100,000 a year not paying for his prescriptions, while a pensioner needing care has their care help cut?”
Is Johan Lamont advocating means testing prescription charges and setting the cap at £100k. WOuld this not be ridiculously expensive to administer?
Labour Policy = End Free Prescriptions but set up a means testing system that will waste even more money thereby reducing health budgets.
Effect = Everyday people and long term sick wind up paying more.
“What is progressive about judges and lawyers earning more than 100,000 a year, not paying tuition fees for their child to follow in their footsteps at university, while one in four unemployed young people in Scotland can’t get a job or a place at college?”
Are they proposing means testing for University fees? If so how will they manage the system and will it not just waste any savings. Are they advocating abolishing all fees?
What is progressive about judges and lawyers earning more than £100k a year and paying tuition fees when the majority of the working class will be blocked from ever gaining a higher education.
Labour Policy = Charge Students for education
Effect = Not a lot on the rich but massive drops in the number of poor going on to further education.
In short – LABOUR POLICY = TORY POLICY
“Unless there is a marked increase in the share of taxation in the Scottish economy, quite significant cuts will have to be found in other programmes to continue to fund the present structure of care.”
Well since Taxes and Revenues are reserved how does Lamont intend to achieve this…
Well all significant taxes but ONE…
Council Tax.
So we can safely assume that Lamont means that there needs to be a marked increase in Council Tax in Scotland
For those who don’t have the strength or will to live, here is the Daily Record’s take on THAT speech.
WARNING!
Please ensure that you have your disinfectant handy to wipe down your computer after reading this.
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
“I pledge this to the people of Scotland,” she added.
“What I will say will not always please you, but what I say will always be honest and true and how I genuinely see it.
“I will not promise what I cannot deliver. And I will never hide the cost of what I propose.”
What she says will be HONEST?
What she says will be TRUE?
Just as well “The Comedians” road show begins in a few weeks, she might get a laugh or two on the stage there.
Sorry to disappoint you Betsy but unfortunately the article IS true. BBC Scotlandshire haven’t quite caught up with the fast moving Lamont yet. Still there’s plenty time for them to do so. 😀
Nice to see the Tory ploy is working fine Bill, Leave ideas lying around the Bitter together clubhouse and they are sure to be picked up by someone. 😀
I’m sorry Sneaky, you’ve lost me there. Did you say “John Swinney is, as the unions have said, ‘Osborne in a kilt.’” I’m not sure I heard you right. Could you repeat that for me please? 😆
Yes DC, Ed Milliband IS back from his hols. The proof is in the picture on the Daily Record site. I’m SURE that’s Lamont “phoning a friend!” As she does not appear to have too many friends I assume that it is Ed in the end of the line! :LOL:
“We will also work with Arthur Midwinter, associate professor at the University of Edinburgh, and former budget adviser to the Scottish Parliament for five years, to develop an across-the-board, costed analysis of available policy options“
Funny how Arthur Midwinter is viewed by his peers though…
link to scotsman.com
I am rather bemused by the coverage in The Scotsman and other newspapers describing Professor Arthur Midwinter as an “economist” and leading “expert”, who has debunked the economic case for an independent Scotland. My understanding is that Prof Midwinter has a background in political science, indeed is a former professor of politics and a specialist in local government finance.
It is, therefore, perhaps a step too far to saddle him with the label “economist”, let alone describe him as an “expert” in the field. And, in fairness, I cannot recall him ever describing himself as an economist.
If it is wished to have a mature debate on the economics of independence, I would sooner put weight on the opinion of Professor David Simpson, a qualified and highly experienced economist of the highest calibre, who cogently argued the economic case for independence in another newspaper this week.
For what it is worth, I am pleased to second Professor Simpson’s opinion that the economic arguments favour independence for Scotland.
If we are taking a tally of professional economists’ opinion, so far that makes two for and none against.
(PROF) NEIL KAY, Department of Economics, University of Strathclyde, Glasgow
“I will not promise what I cannot deliver.” – Johan Lamont
Well that explains no offers on Devo Max or on removing Trident from the Clyde then…
Please tell me I’m not losing the plot here, did lamont just tell folk that she will introduce tuition fees , stop free prescriptions, free bus travel for the pensioners, and a massive hike in council tax. Oh yes that is just what Scotland needs. Surely it’s obvious now folks that the reason johann is not ever available for comment is she has been kidnapped by cybernats, and a ringer rolled out at FMQs etc , with the sole intent of destroying the Labour party in Scotland.
There can be no other logical explanation of the pish that has just been spouted.
“Too many people are losing their jobs, or the services they rely on, or the opportunities to better themselves” – Johan Lamont
And just what was the cause of that Johan????? And why are services being cut????? And why are you trying to tie us to the only government that wants to keep it that way?????
I better stop before I blow a gasket. I cant believe I used to vote for these jokers!
@Arb – Unlock the darkened room!
Unbelievable !!
I don’t know which one is worse. Lamont on a rant blaming everyone in sight, except herself and the Labour Party, or the Orange Order in NI wanting a vote on Scottish Independence.
For the latter….are they mad. Do they not realise that if the Unionists give ‘Ulster-Scots’ the vote (does such a thing still exist…if so, I’m a ‘Livingstonian-Norman’ or a Livingstonian-Viking’), then you will end up with 3/4 of Scots voting for Independence, just so that they will not be casting their lot…in with that lot !!!!
As to Lamont…a waste of space. This woman is kidding herself. Her party is fraying at the edges, and it looks like they could split. I loved that photo from Saturday where some of the Labour Party marched in favour of Independence. I read 3 paragraphs of her whine, and then gave up as I could feel myself turning into a zombie. I assume that nowhere in this ‘War and Peace’ does she state any new policies for Scotland, or what new powers we will be getting post-referendum.
And I agree. Willie Rennie is another hypocrite. Helps to pass laws that shaft the English population, and then asks that same population to speak up for the Union while the Scots people get free prescriptions and education (which of course, is the morally correct thing to do). Goan yirsel, Willie !!! – Speak up for benefits for the Union !!!
A bizarre day for the Unionists.
Johann seems to forget that most people are not very rich. I believe less than 0.05% of UK taxpayers earn 100k plus with 80% of people on less than 30k and 60% on less than 20k.
Ergo, I’m struggling to imagine which voters will be thrilled by the prospect of prescription charges, uni fees etc.
This is, as others have said, Tory policy. They are trying to emulate New Labour in London but this is not SE England….
Poll watching is going to be so much fun over the next few months.
Thank you Johann – you’ve made my day!
Don’t worry Sneeky, “The Darkened Room” is open. 😆
In fact with all the NON appearances of Lamont and continual images of imminent implosion by Scottish Labour I took the decision some time ago that “The Darkened Room” would be open 24/7. I just hope there is enough space for everyone. 😀
I know we had a space “problem” when we ran it over on NNS but we did then build an extension which seemed to work. However, I fear that with “The Darkened Room” finally settled over here I think a wee call to the builders may be the order of the day. 😆
Im trying to recall the Cameron quote from about a year ago where he stated that he had no intention of arguing about the economic viability of an independent Scotland as he accepted it as possible.
I’m just baffled as to why all these policies are supposedly unaffordable, when the Scottish Government has a fixed budget and has managed to afford them all so far. I’d call that pretty conclusive nailed-on proof that they’re NOT unaffordable, because they’ve been demonstrably afforded.
Maybe Johan is in the know about future Barnett Formula reductions…
These are pretty savage and will indeed make many things unafordable based on our pocket money… just not if you based it on our tax take.
In a speech full of rich pickings for observers of zombie Labour, my favourite line has to be:
“I didn’t come in to politics to dodge the difficult questions”.
And this, without a hint of self-deprecating irony. Ouch!
It would seem that this is Scottish Labour’s ‘New Labour’ moment. Only problem is, they’re 18 years too late.
From what I can see through all that remarkable guff they have agreed the following actions:
1) Set up a joint economic group between MSPs and MPs to work out how to deliver social justice at a time of scarce resources.
2) Hold a joint meeting with the STUC to discuss how to get Scotland working again.
3) …er…
I can see her local authority training shining through (long, well-minuted meetings but with few specific actions agreed, other than to have more meetings). And she says she won’t shirk the answering of difficult questions (apart from the ones about Trident….)
This is an attempt to impose the South East’s neo-liberal ‘consensus’ though the dark and wonky prism of old fashioned Scottish Labour. And the odd thing is it just looks as though the Tories are pulling the strings and laughing at the same time. As Scottish_Skier says, the polls over the next few months should be interesting.
Who is the mole at Labour HQ? My late relatives who fought elections after election for them will be birling in their graves.
Basically her speech is a re-hash of of their rather pants 2011 manifesto. Once again they attack the SNP on profligate spending *and* savage cuts. While taking about cuts to benefits and the public sector to maintain…erm…benefits and the public sector? So…they’re going to rob peter and give it back to peter but not quite as much as last time, but then things are rather pricey these days aren’t they.
So their main policy ideas are to raise council tax, remove free prescriptions, cut the public sector and then use this bounty to pay for whats left of the services they have cut or outsourced to the private sector. This will of course be ringfenced and not allocated to anything else, no sirree bob.
So their plan is to be unpopular as the tories, have unpopular policies and stand by them on principle. Because we all know voters will vote for an unpopular party if it appears principled.
I’m just baffled as to why all these policies are supposedly unaffordable, when the Scottish Government has a fixed budget and has managed to afford them all so far. I’d call that pretty conclusive nailed-on proof that they’re NOT unaffordable, because they’ve been demonstrably afforded.
But NLC are about to shed over 1000 jobs because they can’t afford them. It’s that nasty Mr. Swinney’s fault with his populist policies rather than what people. It has nothing to do with our nice Labour councillors who have been unable to run a budget since the infamous ‘£50k plumber incident’! Mr Swinney should always stop blaming other people. It’s not like our councillors blame other people when they make mistakes!
I really, really hope that the Scottish People do the right thing in the Autumn of 2014, and vote to end this horrible Political Union. I feel really sorry for the English people, especially those in the North. They must be deeply alarmed to see that their Northern neighnours could be about to break away, leaving them in a perpetual hell of endless Tory rule from the SE of England.
Scotland was once the poorest, most ridiculed nation in the 16th and 17th centuries. 100 years later, we were the most enlightened nation in the world. The No. 1 nation. I feel that we stand on a possible cusp where we can make that change again. From being the ‘too poor, too wee, too stupid’ to a nation that gives kids a chance (knowledge should be free. It is not a god given right for the rich), the poorest such as pensioners being given a proper winter allowance and other services to help them in their later years, and the belief to the rest of the nation that they do live in a country full of hope and confidence. We may not be No. 1 if we did become independent, but I will happily pay a £1000 a year extra in taxes if it mean’t a better Scotland. One where no one lives in fear of debt or poverty or unable to attend further education. And with that, you can never put a price on it. It would be worth it !!
She does know it’s not the Tory party she’s leading?
What’s her stance on Trident?
There’s not much in that speech that the Daily Mail would disapprove of.
YYY “It would seem that this is Scottish Labour’s ‘New Labour’ moment. Only problem is, they’re 18 years too late.”
This looks very much like it. Labour have continued to hold that 30% odd in Scotland by largely advocating SNP policy on many things in their own manifesto, i.e. by being apparently more centre to left leaning than London New Labour. The voter demographic for Labour is remarkably similar to the SNP. However, they now appear to be saying “We’re not Scottish Labour, we are London New Labour in Scotland“.
“Something for nothing culture” Almost fell off my seat. Front page of the English daily mail stuff that.
One of the longest suicide notes in history, to coin a phrase.
Question. Are our 1000 Bobbies on the beat safe under Lamont?
Answer Maybees AYE
Maybees NAW
link to snp.org
For those who don’t know what ‘£50k plumber incident’ meant: link to news.bbc.co.uk
@scottish_skier,
Yes. As we’ve observed on these pages before, there is no ideological space left for Scottish Labour in Scottish politics. They have nothing to say to us, nowhere else to go now except to participate in the dominant ideology of austerity-competition with their Tory chums. What this speech proves is that Ed Miliband and Ed Balls have as tight a grip on Scottish Labour today as Tony Blair and Gordon Brown had in the period from 1994 to 2010.
Oh, and I’ve just thought of another problem. Johann Lamont is no Tony Blair (circa 1994, that is).
Any one wanting to read a fair, balanced, unbiased, neutral report on Lamont’s speech can do no better than visit everybodies favourite political reporter, dear old Brian. 😆
link to bbc.co.uk
Not that they will publish it I expect, but I left the following under Johann The Unavailable’s speech on Labour Hame:
“So let me get this straight…. your “big idea” comprises of basically explaining why free prescriptions, free tuition fees and a council tax freeze should be taken away?!
Sorry… this just reads like Old Labours “longest suicide note in history” for our times. No wonder Labour for Independence is gaining ground!”
Poor Johann she must have been raging when Milliband told her to come out with all that. Vote Labour for prescription charges, tuition fees and the end of free personal care. I suppose in the wider UK context her speech is a good move by Labour who after all need the rest of the UK to vote them in to win and being seen to give the free loading, subsidy junkies of Jockland a good kicking will do them no harm at all. Is this it? Have Labour HQ finally stopped pretending to care about Scotland?
I don’t know how much longer I can take the daily clown show of Scottish Labour.
I’m running the full gamut of emotions now – Joy, sadness, incredulity, fear , denial, embarassment, hysterical laughter.
They’re fvcking ridiculous.
A quote from Brian Taylor’s analysis that Arbroath 1320 refers to where he talks to the worthies at Holyrood:
But there is undisguised glee among Nationalists…the joy is bountiful and appears to be genuine. I talked to several, including three Cabinet Ministers. One commented: “Christmas come early.”
🙂
And with impeccable timing, we have the first stories emerging that there will be only one question, with the SNP working on devo max supporters; all that’s required here being getting them to go that last step and agree to Scotland having to control of foreign affairs and defense.
link to heraldscotland.com
@Betsy. Aye, I’m thinking Ed, like Dave, has decided Scotland’s off so best make it as quick and clean as possible.
Is it possible that we are all being fooled here? Could Johann be increasing the chances of Scotland voting for Independence….ergo for SNP? Then she would have a legitimate reason for breaking up with Labour down south and rebranding as Scottish Labour.
Or have I just been sucked into Johann’s parallel universe?
Heeeeeelp!!!!
This is Labour’s half-hearted attempt at playing catch up on the SNP. But the truth is, without firm policy and credence, they will remain miles behind them. Next year the SNP should produce the fundamental policies, vision and future of a progressive and vibrant Scotland, and with that, Labour will be reeling far behind once again because they will still be mired with Tory austerity policies. 2013 is going to be a big year, one where hopefully, the majority of the Scottish public will see outright who will do better for them and it won’t be Labour or the Bitter Together lot. It’s quite clear that if Lamont was FM now then Scotland will be in a much dire state in which her instructions from Ed will be just to blame the Tories, blame them and get the prolls to keep voting Labour. Enough is enough!
@Scottish Skier,
No wonder things are turning ugly within Scottish Labour. Effectively they’ve been reduced to touting for votes on behalf of English MPs and councillors but with a significantly reduced prospect of gaining from it in the form of power in Scotland. It will be interesting to see how the more career minded react to this.
The thing is about a single question ballot is this, in my view.
a) Most polls over the last few months or so have shown a significant number of voters WANTING a second question. Voters wanting Independence came second and voters wanting to keep the status quo last.
b) Now it looks increasingly likely that there will be only ONE question we have to ask where the Devo max supporters will go. I think it is almost certain that the vast majority of them will NOT vote for the stratus quo, i.e. they’ll vote YES in 2014. Something is better than nothing, even if the something goes further than you want.
c) With only one question on the ballot paper A.S. can now start attacking Westminster in order to bring MORE Devo max voters on board. How?
Well, in my view that’s easy. He keeps on about how he was DENIED the right to have a second question.
The people of Scotland were DENIED THEIR favoured question.
Westminster was trying to rig the ballot.
I’m quite sure that he is also more than capable of rubbing the Bitter camp’s nose in the dirt by repeatedly telling the electorate that their choice is now a very straight forward one.
Do you want to continue under Westminster TORY rule?
Do you want to ruled from Holyrood with a government who will make decisions about Scotland and have the BEST interests of her [people at heart.
Labour will NOT have any more wriggle room. They will HAVE to come out in favour of the status quo and the promise of jam tomorrow. Unfortunately for Labour the electorate are not THAT stupid. ONCE bitten TWICE shy is the phrase that springs to mind.
In a funny way, despite the mad rantings of Curran and the rest this single question option could quite possibly be the death nail for Labour.
I’ve now read her speech, and as far as I can tell, what she’s saying is that Labour would introduce tuition fees, prescription charges, etc. etc. in order to be able to maintain public sector employment figures. In other words, you’ll have to pay for your prescription so that your council doesn’t need to cut any jobs.
I guess it makes good sense for a party that to a large extent is the party of public sector workers, but how it’ll go down with the rest of the population is a good question.
@mogabee,
“Is it possible that we are all being fooled here?”.
This is a possibility. If we enter the wacky world of Ian Smart’s political hinterland, we might be tempted to argue that just as Smart reckons that Alex Salmond’s grand strategy is not to have a referendum, Johann Lamont’s grand strategy is to drive Scottish Labour into political oblivion to make a Yes vote a shoo-in in 2014.
And like Salmond, she just hasn’t broken the news to the party faithful yet. If this is her strategy, then it seems to be working a treat. If you think about it, particularly after Lamont’s dire performance today, this interpretation of Lamont’s strategy makes a lot more sense than Ian Smart’s interpretation of Alex Salmond’s ‘real’ strategy.
I think she’s playing to the Scottish cringe element, those who’s default position is ‘why am I not more miserable?’ I believe that is what the tories in westminster are playing off just now in England, enthusiastically abetted by newspapers printing scare stories about benefit cheating immigrant NHS tourists etc and evil bankers.
I think it typifies labour in Scotland, they’re just so small minded, not a hint of aspiration about them at all.
I wonder if her speech will push more labour supporters towards Labour for Independence, I listened to Allan Grogan’s speech at the Ross Theatre, it was odd to hear a labour supporter talking about ambition, vision and hope for a change.
I tend not to watch Lamont give speeches, she sounds like a clanger gargling with potatoes, its a deeply unpleasant experience and I’m positive when she’s finished talking I’ve lost a little bit of the will required to live.
If you have ever read a more dishonest pile of shite than this then I simply don’t believe you.
Brian Taylor defending the indefensible…
link to bbc.co.uk
pa_broon
I tend not to watch Lamont give speeches, she sounds like a clanger gargling with potatoes, its a deeply unpleasant experience and I’m positive when she’s finished talking I’ve lost a little bit of the will required to live.
Completely agree , she manages to ebb a little bit of my life away everytime I watch her performance at FMQ’s. How she is in charge of any opposition party I will never fully understand. One thing is quite strange though – I am glad that she is, she is doing a great job for Independent minded people.
@Seasick Dave,
You haven’t read Johann Lamont’s speech then?
Does this woman know what she is saying, or even talking about ?
On Brian Taylor’s other blog of the day about Johann, he mentions the following from her speech…
She told the conference: “When the Royal Bank of Scotland goes down, Scotland didn’t have to negotiate with foreign governments.
Err…no…because it is a British Bank with its HQ in Edinburgh. Why is this portrayed as being a non-british Bank, or rather ‘a Scottish Bank’ and not the same as Barclays or HSBC. If HSBC or Barclay had their HQ’s in Scotland, would they become a ‘Scottish’ Bank? Considering 3/4 of RBS bank holders are English…this was a British problem. Not a Scottish one!
“What happened with the RBS bailout wasn’t about Scotland’s weakness – it was about the Union’s strength.”
And the Crash of the banks in this country was also caused by the mis-handling of that ‘great iron fist’, Labour’s Gordon Brown, who also raped the Pension Funds for all their worth, sold off the Gold at their lowest value, and helped in de-regulating the Banks further. Plus, he helped the Bush Administration and his Labour co-horts in invading Iraq; a country that had no part in 9/11.
Ms Lamont said she wanted the campaign for the union to be a “collective leadership”, which would feature figures including former chancellor Alistair Darling and ex-prime minister Gordon Brown.
Yep, roll out Gordon Brown, the Man who crashed the whole of Britain into what yet could become a Depression. If Labour think that letting him loose on the Scottish People, along with the War Criminal, Tony Blair, and the wee puppet himself, Alistair Darling will help the Union cause, then she is seriously deluded. She will have people running to the Independence cause. The one final invite to Scotland that the Unionists have still to send out, is a personal invitation to Margaret Thatcher herself.
She has said in one speech that she wants to raise Council Tax, end free tuition, and hit the Pensioners with bills for medication, and in another, she talks about aligning herself with a rogues gallery of the worst kind of deceptive, mis-calculating, narcisstic people. Keir Hardie must be weeping at what his party has become
And to be honest, why do I have this weird feeling that we might see Maggie yet….
Seasick Dave
Brian Taylor defending the indefensible…
beginning to wonder if Brian has a thing for Johann Lamont – might explain some of the flowery language he uses to describe her?
If you have ever read a more dishonest pile of shite than this then I simply don’t believe you.
S.D. How can you say this?
We are talking about the GREAT Brian “c’mon the Tangerines” Taylor here.
He is the BBC political correspondent on all things well erm sort of political like. 😀
As we all know the BBC is fair, balanced, unbiased, neutral in ALL its reporting of everything political.
Don’t you remember, we are all supposed to believe EVERYTHING emanating from Pacific Quay, either directly or indirectly.
The BBC is the font of ALL knowledge.
What the BBC don’t know and what the BBC don’t tell us is not worth knowing and that’s OFFICIAL!
Some one at the BBC told me that so it MUST be true! 😆
The Labour Party…it really makes you wonder.
People like Keir Hardie, Aneurin “Nye” Bevan, Clement Attlee would be appalled at what has become of their Party and its principles. These men fought for greater social justice for the ordinary man. They worked tirelessly to make sure that the working man got a decent wage, a good health service (the best thing ever created by the Labour Party, or by any Party for that matter), a proper education for his children, and a decent state pension for when he retired after working hard all his life.
Let’s roll on to 2012.
Where in any of the above does the Labour Party truly stand for these principles. How can they honestly call theselves the ‘Labour’ Party. Those Labour Party members should be hanging their heads in shame. Pretending to stand up for the person, when in truth, they do not. We have Johann Lamont basically ‘hinting’ (that’s all she does) that she wants to tax the ordinary man, and make sure that their kids have to pay extortinate fees to go to University. I would happily argue the bit with this woman over her Party’s ‘principles’ when in reality, they have no intention of following them.
I will NEVER.
NEVER.
vote for the Labour Party while it lives in its present format. I have Socialist values, and believe that each Man, Woman and Child in Scotland deserves a life free from debt, and fear. Question is…can the members of the Scottish Labour Party look themselves in the mirror, and say the same thing?
Roll on an Independent Scotland.
I think Brian Taylor uses all those high falutin’ words so that Johann and others don’t know what he’s talking about. Seems to me in his reports these days he’s trying to tread a fine line between the protagonists without actually saying anything definitive. I think he can see the wind is changing and wants to make sure he’s not entirely persona non grata when Independence comes. Mind you sometimes he has to work hard at it to make sense of it all.
I remember being at an SNP conference in Inversnecky a few years ago and having the honour of having Brian troughing at the table next to me in a restaurant.
The overriding memory for me was the disdain that he had for the SNP and the look on his face that said, “You lot will never be in power”.
@MajorBloodnok
I too have detected more balance in his articles these days. I’m glad I’m not alone.
I think Johann just looked at everything that the SNP wanted and then chose the opposite as Labour policy. After hearing Allan Grogan speak I realised that there are still articulate and passionate people in the Labour Party – it’s just a shame they prefer the dullards to run things.
If N.L.C implement their proposed cuts in full, I stand to lose at least £8,000 out of my wages , end up working part time and that is not counting the effect it will have on my pension .
I dont blame the Scottish Government or the S.N.P for these cuts , I dont even blame the Tory,s ! I lay the blame fairly and squarely where it belong , at the labour party who bankrupted the country and allowed the tory,s back into power .
I joined the labour party and trade union movement to help get rid of the tory,s not to elect a government who then went out of their way to out tory the tory,s .
I just hope that Allan Grogan and labour for independence can now build on their success after Saturday,s march and do something about returning the labour party in Scotland back to their roots . There must be many a labour activist shaking their heads tonight wondering what or where they can go now .
Johann,s speech today should effectively destroy what is left of the labour party in Scotland .
The thing is that there is genuine goodwill towards the Labour Party amongst independence supporters, or at least towards what the party used to be. I saw that at the rally on Saturday and the very positive response that Allan Grogan of Labour for Independence got. I think that is because a lot of the people there had voted Labour once, perhaps when they still were the party of social justice (I include me in that category).
There’s not been much about Grogan’s involvement in the MSM (apart from in the Dennis Canavan piece in the Record) and I can understand why as it would suddenly open the eyes of ordinary Labour voters to what is actually up and that there is an alternative to the neo-liberal ‘consensus’ they’re ramming down our throats.
Labour needs to become the party of social justice again and go back to its original principles, and that means supporting independence as the only way of achieving it, because if it doesn’t it will go the way of the Tories (and Lib-Dems).
So, to be clear, Labour in Scotland now espouse the following policies;
1. Re introduce crippling tuition fees
2. Raise council tax.
3. Remove free prescriptions
4. Remove free bus travel for pensioners.
Might I simply ask, in what way does ANY of that differ from the policy of the Current Conservative Government????
Even if Labour were to support independence tomorrow, with those policies above, they still wouldn’t get my vote back – and I used to vote Labour. What on earth are they thinking??????
Quite, quite, surreal.
There must be some kind of ‘grand plan’ behind this, but i’m fecked if i can work it out!
Johann Lamont is Cameron with lipstick
Juteman
‘
There must be some kind of ‘grand plan’ behind this, but i’m fecked if i can work it out!’
I think there is a ‘Grand Plan’, but I believe all the Unionist Parties are hedging their bets, hence no real commitment to anything.
The Tories, we all know, would love to keep the Union as it is (lord it up over us all), but at the same time, they can see huge benfits of an Independent Scotland. Not only do they shaft Labour for all time, but they can also hit the workers Unions by having the Union fees diminished as fees in Scotland cannot be contributed to the Unions in England. Plus… Union Leaders from Scotland would be told to stay in Scotland as they can have no say in English politics…thus weakening the Unions even further.
As for the Liberals. I think they now know that the only way they will see Power is to go into coalitions with whoever wins an Election. If they are quite willing to work with the Tories, then they will almost certainly work with Labour in a coalition. Losing the Labour vote from Scotland could actually benefit the Lib-dems. So, it doesn’t matter if its a Tory coalition, or a Labour coalition. It’s a win-win situation for the Liberals. They will always be the junior partner in Power….but they would be in Power.
New Labour have become the Democrats of the UK. If the Tories are the Republicans, then that is what New Labour will become. No longer Red, just a lighter shade of blue. Their policies are literally the same, and the whole power structure of the UK, along with the banking system almost replicates that of the USA. Ed Miliband realises this. He doesn’t care for Labour in Scotland (hence the in fighting now), and so, he will now play to Middle England, and hopefully at times, pull a large number of votes from the Elite.
So, in reality…do any of them really need Scotland. The answer is really ‘No’. And by hedging their bets…they are basically saying ‘it’s up to you, Mr Salmond to win this Referendum. We don’t have to save the Union. In reality, we really don’t need it’
If you ask me…that is the ‘Grand Plan’
“First, we have set up a joint economic group between MSPs and MPs, chaired by Cathy Jamieson and Ken Macintosh, which will seek evidence and advice from a wide variety of leading experts and authorities, as well as ordinary people.”
This bit is interesting. It suggests Labour are giving Westminster MPs an explicit and formal role in policy making for Holyrood, which would be a weakening and undermining of the current devolution set up. An early indication, perhaps, that a No vote in the referendum will not mean a continuation of the status quo.
@James T.
Yes, I’ve been thinking along the same lines for some time now. Scotland is a pain in the erse for the Tories, it’s now no use to the Libs, and if poll data which I have showing the SNP ahead in Westminster elections too now it true, is looking like increasingly less use to New Labour too. Hell, imagine if most Scots MPs were SNP. Jeez – what if they held the balance of power. That would be bloody annoying; jock tail wagging the dog even more.
Nope, there is more going on than you might take at fist glance. The golden prize for Labour, the Tories and the Libs remains that shiny trough on the Thames. Scotland is just increasingly an annoyance.
If you want to keep Scotland, you offer an alternative to independence. If you want Scotland out, you only agree to one question.
No mystery here, surely? What is Lamont’s defining characteristic? That she reads a script (well, tries to). This speech has come direct from Millbank as UK Labour try to make themselves indistinguishable from the Tories (good job so far, lads).
A trailer, if you will, for the goal of repositioning Labour as the party that sees the need to privatise the NHS completely in England..Lamont is just reading from the bigger script..
It does indeed suggest that Labour may have given up on Scotland and is focused entirely on the South East.
Blimey, 69 comments and counting from two sentences. I’ve been putting WAY too much effort into this blogging business.
Scottish Skier
You pick the Red Pill or the Blue Pill.
They are both the same, both placebos, both financed by the same money men in the City.
cf USA
It is the logical extrapolation of Tony Blair’s shift to the right.
I always was of the opinion that this was the evolutionary trajectory of the political road for Westminster.
I think it is unfolding before our eyes and I am beginning to suspect that the deal has been done.
Good article about Lamont’s Thatcher tribute act here
link to internationalsocialist.org.uk
I’ve been thinking of cancelling my contributions to my union’s political fund for some time now. I have always let myself be talked out of it on the basis that the money also contributes to union campaigning on other issues. However whilst I’m sorry to hamper the other good campaigning work done by my union, I cannot allow another penny of my money to go to the Labour Party so I’m afraid that’s it, contributions cancelled.
A surreal day what with ‘unavailable for comment’ trying to out Tory the Tories, and the NI Orange Order wanting in on the vote. darkened room? Need a full scale black hole to cope with this (and we have the contrast of Saturday!!). Stu – the difference between this blog and, say, Gruandian comments is that the bit above the line makes sense – as well as the comments.
James McLaren
‘I think it is unfolding before our eyes and I am beginning to suspect that the deal has been done. ‘
The only problem with the overall statement is that it puts the SNP under the spotlight. The Unionists could twist it and say to them ‘that it is only yours to throw away’. By basically saying to the SNP that they now have free reign to pursue the Referendum without any real opposition, it puts pressure on the SNP to get their case across properly to the Scottish people.
If the SNP fail to convince the Scottish Electorate, and the Referendum fails…then believe me, the will beat the SNP with the result for another generation.
What Margo MacDonald said was true. Every Nationalist MUST convince at least one Unionist, or one ‘Undecided’ person and convince them to vote for Independence. I think the statements that have been made today by Michael Moore, Johann Lamont, the Orange Order (of all things!!), and some of the Unionist Media, could be a minor day that stands out in the history of the Referendum.
We could analyse this all night !! It runs very deep….Politics within Politics…..
@Rev
Start charging by the sentence; hell, the word. You could retire after independence.
JL’s speech does reflect the disappointment so many people have regarding Labour. John MacLean is one the historical figures whom I admire and I sometimes wish he was still alive so that he could run evening classes in Socialism for Labour politicians. JL would surely be getting extra homework.
Betsy,
I still pay my Union fees. I’ve had help from the Union in the past, and found them when it comes to a mjor fight againt injustice at work, that they will fight for you.
I have no doubt that the Union Leaders themselves are probably very uneasy as to the way Labour are going.
If I was the SNP, I would be courting the Scottish Unions and at least show them that an Independent Scotland could be good for Unions. If the Unions are looked after in a free Scotland, then it might help the Unions down south – especially if they can hold up Scotland as the role model !!
Rev, we just thought you’d like the day off.
Rev Stuart,
I have posted this on the Herald`s web-site. (or words to the effects)
What if Alex Salmond/SMP were to suggest to the campaigners for Devo-Max, that
if they could collect 100,000 signatures and presented it to Westminster, is it not
a procedure that that then has to be debated in Parliament?.
now it is obvious that it would be thrown out. but just imagine reading or better still
watching on the Democracy channel the comments of the Scottish Labour members,
quite apart from the fury of the English M.P.`s
James
Quote
“ She told the conference: “When the Royal Bank of Scotland goes down, Scotland didn’t have to negotiate with foreign governments. “
“ What happened with the RBS bailout wasn’t about Scotland’s weakness – it was about the Union’s strength. “
The Federal Reserve has released details of more than 21,000 transactions after being forced by the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform Act to disclose which institutions it had bailed out in the financial turmoil since December 2007.
Royal Bank of Scotland borrowed $446bn (£280bn)
Halifax Bank of Scotland borrowed $181bn (£114bn)
Total = £461bn
What did the UK put into the two banks £46bn
No negotiations with foreign governments or Scotlands weakness and Unions strength… what the shoite is she talking about?
.
@James T,
I would never cancel my union membership but one can opt out the political fund, meaning your contributions would only go to the running of the union and all that good stuff but nothing would go to the Labour party.
I know from my own union people are very unhappy at the direction the Labour Party has taken but the union is still a substantial donor to Labour Party funds. I’m hoping that if enough people opt out the political fund but keep their membership going, it’ll force a reduction, if not a complete end to big donations to Labour.
Roll_On_2014
Briliant mate. Proves she (and the rest of them) are either lying, or really have no clue !!!
I’ve been saying, or at least trying to, for some time that I thought that the Tories don’t give a damn about Scotland. I have held the view that Cameron is just playing the “we need Scotland in the union” game but without REALLY trying.
We have the Tories trying to get their boundary changes through parliament, I believe they are looking to cut around 60 M.P.’s. Now consider the options currently available to the Tories.
Option 1 try and push their plans through the HoC against opposition from all sides.
Option 2 let Scotland go Independent and IMMEDIATELY gain around a 60 seat reduction.
I am FURTHER convinced that the Tories are quite relaxed about Scottish Independence because given the loss of the 60 seats from Scotland they would be in an almost unassailable position. Post Independence would see almost a generation’s worth, or more, of Tory rule from Westminster.
My views are, I think, given some credence by the fact that the ONLY noises coming out of the Tories is along the lines of “your too wee, too poor and too stupid.” This is a deliberate ploy, I think, to rile up the Scots so that they WILL vote YES in 2014.
I think Cameron has played a bit of a blinder here. He has weighed up the problems of “losing” Scotland against a generation of Tory power. I believe he has accepted the down side of Scottish Independence which will be forgotten, politically speaking, in a relatively short period of time in exchange for a generation of Tory power, something that would see him go down in the annuls of Tory history even surpassing that of the dreaded Maggie T.
In the mean time what do we get from the Bitter camp, only that we are better together.
No proof.
No argument FOR the union
Continual personal attacks on A.S.
The Bitter camp are just a bunch of useless pawns. They are SO blinkered of events and SO focused in their HATRED of A.S. that they are totally blind to the laughing stock that they are turning into.
@Roll_On_2014
“ She told the conference: “When the Royal Bank of Scotland goes down, Scotland didn’t have to negotiate with foreign governments. “
I just took that to mean that poor little Scotland was incapable of dealing with grown up countries. I also took it as a reflection of Labour’s ambition.
I doubt that any trade union in Scotland is controled in any way whatsoever from Scotland.
Betsy,
Apologies, I didn’t realise that was an option. Like yourself, I really wonder what is now running through the minds of the main Scottish Union Leaders.
Somewhere down the line, they will have to question their own personal principles against that of what is morally right. They will have to come to a point where ‘Labour’ is no longer a friend to the ordinary working man. I know they won’t go anywhere near the Socialist Parties as they at times appear to be too Far Left (ie Communist at times).
The Scottish Unions may have to start looking for splits in the Labour Party, and somehow come to an agreement with either a breakaway ‘proper’ Labour Party; a Labour Party in a separate Scotland, or find some common ground with other parties instead ie SNP, Greens.
I think somewhere down the line, this line in teh sand will have to be crossed.
Anyway, apologies once more. I didn’t quite see your full viewpoint.
Cheers again
According to the NHS “One in seven Scots are now taking anti-depressants”. Maybe this is why Red Blue Lamont sees prescription charges as money earner. Her speech is surely to have more people phoning their GP. I’m beginning to see the way that she thinks.
Seriously though, one in seven! What’s happening to this country?
@Betsy and James T
The unions continued to support Labour after they went to war and bankrupted the country. I’ve met union leaders before and in many respects they remind me of MPs. They’ve made it to the top and they’re not likely to rock the boat.
If anyone wants to try and help the Left realign there’s a Radical Independence meeting in Glasgow 24th November. link to radicalindependence.org
In my previous comment the strikethrough disappeared. I’m sure that you can all work out which word it was.
Wullie,
‘I doubt that any trade union in Scotland is controled in any way whatsoever from Scotland.’
Probably. But at the same time, there are many, many Nationalists who are paid up Members of the Unions. If the Unions started telling their members that they back the Union, then they could end up with many Members north of the border growling at them.
As we get closer to the Referendum date, I think even the Unions will have meetings as to what could eventually happen. They might have to begin preparing for what might be the breakup of the UK. And if so, they will most defintely want a presence in Scotland.
@1320
Remember the Scotland Bill calmany thing?
That was done and dusted awfy easily wasn’t it. Must have been good agreement between the Scottish and UK governments on how best to deal with that. Get it out of the way as quick as possible so the real agreement could be worked on.
UK Gov could have damaged the independence cause by agreeing to the extra powers the SNP requested (corporation tax etc). N. Irleand had a much easier time on this. SNP no longer shouting about it? Of course not; purpose served, message across as agreed by both parties. One asks, the other refuses, as expected by the electorate.
These referendum talks are going very smoothly too. Almost like both gov’s have plenty of common ground…
Aye, there be some realpolitik going on. Too much at stake for their not to be.
😉
Cuphook
‘Seriously though, one in seven! What’s happening to this country’
It will be people stressed to the max about debt, or fear of going under. I know I don’t feel the same way that I did 4 years ago. I always have that little nagging fear of losing my job, and what happens next.
I think some are very close to that line where they fear the worst. I think if we went back 4 years ago, the chances are that it may have been something like 1 in 30
Correct me if I am wrong, but up to now it has only been the Tories in Scotland calling for the introduction of tuition fees.
link to journal-online.co.uk
“ The National Union of Students Scotland (NUS) has condemned Conservative Party plans to fund higher education claiming they would create a “black hole” in spending.
The NUS have pointed out that Conservative plans to introduce tuition fees of up to £4,000 would only provide graduate contributions from 2017, resulting in an interim funding gap of £1.5 billion. “
So it appears that the tory doctrine from the Rainbow Alliance has rubbed of on NuLabour in Scotland.
Another fact that is missing from the Independence voice has been that the Rainbow Alliance, since the 2011 SNP landslide, have been singing in unison…. When do we want the referendum… we want it tomorrow…. on an almost daily basis.
But please cast your minds back a few years… remember Bendy Wendy…. ‘bring it on’. Aye and then the Unionists blocked it in the last session of Parliament. In hindsight they did the SNP a favour because I don’t think a Yes vote would have carried especially if the timing had been so short.
This just goes to illustrate just what numpties the unionists are.
Roll_On_2014
Your figure for RBS was actually $541 billion.
link to standupamericaus.org
@James T,
No need to apologise. It’s not something unions like to tell members but it can be done.
@Cuphook,
Thanks. I might have to take myself along to that. I’m still on a high after the rally on Saturday and itching to do something.
cynicalHighlander
Roll_On_2014
“ Your figure for RBS was actually $541 billion. ”
Got my figures from this:
http://www.newstatesman.com/2010/12/financial-british-money-fed
.
Don’t expect the unions to break ranks with the labour party , one is as corrupt as the other .
I gave up being a shop steward about 4 years ago and eventually left the union this year due to the fact that they were more interested in recruiting new members than they were of looking after existing members . Many of the union leaders have got to where they are by using the same dirty tactics the labour party use . Like BETSY says they can be good at disciplinary,s and giving legal advice and taking employers to court after an industrial accident but they are also quick to do deals behind locked doors .
As Betsy says hit the labour party where it hurts by withdrawing from the political fund .
I am not altogether convinced that Labour has a clue anymore. It would seem obvious to me that the folk that got us into this mess, merchant bankers and the like, have an obligation to fall on their swords, be declared bankrupt chancers, whatever. Labour however runs scared of the City of London, and the capitalist class.
How did we end up with a radical party, which was supposed to help the sick and the weak and the poor, fawning, or swanning around, in an area of the country that thinks deprivation is not getting a caffiene free latté?
They have become caricatures of themselves. They remember the radicals, the fighters, the people who did give us most of the welfare state. But now we have the blessed Joanne telling us that, effectively, there is no society. It is dog eat dog world out there and we should just all curl up and accept the capitalist prescription. Because that is what she is doing.
There is a hashtag about questions for Joanne Lamont. Here’s one. When, exactly did you sell out any principles you ever had for a seat as an MSP, or alternatively, did you ever have any principles?
I have admired from afar, what the Icelanders did. They prosecuted the bastards.
link to silverdollareconomy.com
Which seems beyond the wit of the Labour Party. frankly, that alone, tells you how far the Labour Party has fallen. It looks in the mirror of a morning and it does not recognise itself. And neither should it.
Oops!
I intended to add:
“Twelve voices were shouting in anger, and they were all alike. No question, now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”
Aye your right S.S.
One thing I forgot to mention in my last post was the way that the Tories are “using” the Lib/Dems. I find it rather “interesting” that Moore is the Secretary of State for Scotland. This guy just seems to fumble along. No one seems to take him seriously. Of course every one in the Scottish government is polite and courteous to him, but really can they REALLY take him seriously? This guy is pretty much Cameron’s own personal lap dog. I know Moore thinks that HE is the one calling all the shots but in reality he is just shouting into a 100mph wind, no one can hear him! Bear in mind as well he was the one, was he not, prior to the 2010 elections who was LEADING the calls to close down the Scottish Office.
I’m not one prone to congratulating Cameron but in this instance, I think it was a pure stroke of genius to put Moore in charge of the VERY department he was calling to be closed down.
I think Cameron’s treatment of the Lib/Dems like Moore, in hindsight, was an early indication that he was quite calm about the possibility of Scottish Independence. I think this was further enhanced once the Tories went into coalition with the Lib/Dems. At this point he knew TWO things.
First. With a Tory led coalition it was almost certain that there would be a revolt in the Holyrood election in 2011 that would lead to another S.N.P. led Scottish government. The only shock to the Tories was the level of S.N.P. victory.
Second. By bringing the Lib/Dems into the coalition he has effectively turned the Lib/Dems into a party of also rans. I know they were NEVER really big on the power front in Westminster but this coalition has, I think, seen off the Lib/Dems for decades, in my view.
@James T
I guess that I’m lucky as I’ve never been in debt – but then I’ve never had a credit card. Strangely enough I was recently rejected by a telephone company as I don’t have a credit history – a company that I’ve paid every month for several years to provide my broadband.
Too many people fall for the buy now pay later line. I’ve always saved because you’re only ‘well off’ if you can access cash. I’ve been ‘rich’ and I’ve been ‘poor’ but I live within my means. I’ve seen so many people get a pay rise and go for the bigger house, the extra holiday, the second car, the extra case of Sauvignon to see them through the week… and then stress as to how they’re going to pay for it. Too many people want to live their lives like a Sunday supplement. It’s madness, I tell you.
I’ve lost my job a few times but it really doesn’t bother me as it’s just an opportunity to do something else.
@Betsy
Might see you there. Hopefully there will be people with realistic outlooks and not just SWP members waiting for the revolution. I think it’s important to prepare for independence day + 1.
Lamont has the blessing of Alan Cochrane. Says it all really.
Lamont is on Scotland Tonight. Wants rid of trident??? Eventually. Refuses to answer the question “will you raise tuition fees?”
It’s great she’s asking questions about how we fund everything. I can’t wait for her to realise we can only do it with independence. ; )
@Douglas Clark,
A look at the life of Glasgow’s first female Labour councillor brings home to me more than anything what we’ve lost in the capitalists, careerists and toadies taking over the Labour Party.
link to gcu.ac.uk
@Cuphook,
There are a lot of people milling about without a party, hopefully this will offer something for them. As for me I’ve done my stint on the far left and it’s not an experience I’m anxious to repeat. In fact I seem to recall the SWP used to be anti-Scottish Independence on account of there being working class people in London or some such rot. Though they are ever the opportunists so no doubt they’ll be present. Let’s hope there are enough folk with a grasp on reality to drown them out.
@Betsy
You’ll be aware of the fissiparous nature of the Left then. I hope that people can be realistic and come together in order to actually achieve something. I also hope that they can be forgiving and welcome back the likes of Tommy Sheridan. We’re all human and we all make mistakes. Sometimes we learn from them and become better people.
Right, there are only three logical and sane reasons for her madness.
She’s been on the bong with Ian Smart
Ian Davidson has told her to say it otherwise…
She’s read the guff that wee Wullie Rennie has been spouting and thought ‘stuff this, I can top that’.
Yes just saw that Murdo Fraser praised Lamont, what the fuck are STV all about letting Smart and that Grant woman spout a load of nonsense. Surely the people did want a council tax freeze, free tuition and prescriptions, we wouldn’t have voted for it if we didn’t fancy it.
I really don’t know what to make of all this, quite frankly I’m speechless.
Throats a bit sore from roaring at the telly, I’m going to have to go and lie down.
Haha. It looks like I’ve had this comment removed from the Telegraph. ‘“I will not tolerate a country where the poorest pay for the tax breaks for the rich.” I wonder if she ever said that to Gordon Brown.’ The Telegraph is protecting the reputation of the Labour Party. Surely the end of days approach.
@Castle Rock
Don’t blame the bong.
@ castlerock
I could be doing with a shot of that bong after watching that twilight zone episode on STV.
Cuphook, that comment was there twice an hour or so ago, and it’s still there twice.
I don’t think it’s the sort of comment they remove.
@ Morag
Strange. I only posted it once and I can’t see it anymore. I’ve only ever had one comment removed from the Telegraph – it was in in response to a Christian guy who couldn’t get to sleep at night for worrying about buggery. I only asked if his wife also had trouble getting to sleep.
😀
Its not a case of jam tomorrow anymore; its we cannae afford jam.
I’m really looking forward to seeing Lamont punting that line for the next two years.
Alex, “The Darkened Room” is open 24/7 come on over, every body is welcome! 😆
OT
I’ve just uploaded a speeded up version of a video of the independence march to Youtube. It lasts just under 3 minutes and makes it a bit easier to watch.
Thanks to Chris Arthur for the original.
Yes, but has anyone actually taken the trouble to count the marchers in that video, or is everyone just content to assert that there are “obviously” more than 5,000?
Inquiring minds want to know.
@Cuphook,
Only too painfully aware. If it turns out to be a big lefty posture bang then I shall flounce out and launch plan B in the form of a local Yes Scotland group (there is NOTHING in my area).
Just found a link to this on F/b.
It is an advert for T in the park, but if you forget that I think it hits home a lot about what being Scottish is all about.
link to youtube.com
@Morag
I can’t remember if I read it here but didn’t Jeff Duncan say they had 2 clickers and they both counted around 9500?
Anyway, if it had only been 5000 the MSM would have said it was 2500.
I think the keyword in your sentence is “trouble”
Anyone know of software that can count people in a video?
For anyone interested
link to isdscotland.scot.nhs.uk
From figure 7 we can see that the total money generated via prescription charges in Scotland did not once reach £50 million and feel from April 2008 onwards due to falling prescription charges and completely ceased in April 2011.
If we look at the total expenditure of the NHs from Gers figures Table 2.3 If
link to scotland.gov.uk
If we look at the year 2007/2008 then approximately 48 million was generated against a budget of 9,807 million. Less than 0.5% of the total health budget.
Also remember the administrative costs of implementing an exemption service was estimated at around 1.54 million in the year 2003/2004
link to archive.scottish.parliament.uk
This was the most uptodate information I could find on administrative costs. Then as the article states the theoretical savings due to greater patient compliance and reduced acute hospital admissions.
Make up your own minds of whether this is money well spent. All in all it represents a negligible amount of revenue and we all know how much we would save by abolishing house of lords,trident, billions on Defense (or offense as it should be).
Im confused,labour are going to look at the ways we pay for services.They will take 2 or more years to do this.In the meantime, all they will say is that the way it gets done now is wrong.The confusion for me is how the f— could isobel fraser not tell mrs brown to stop chewing the cud and get a f-ki-g move on.WE THE PEOPLE have a referendum to win and a COUNTRY to run.
Q. What is the difference between Maggie Thatcher and Johann Lamont?A. The accent!
@Betsy
I’ve always liked a line that I can’t remember the source of: “Plan B is like Plan A but we run faster.”
Once again STV seem to be providing the best political coverage of the mainstream Scottish media.
link to news.stv.tv
Brian Taylor, Alan Cochrane et al have very helpfully provided analysis but omitted to include the great orator herself in full flight. Anybody have a link to the full speech itself?
This speech and what followed later on newsnight was a Scottish Labour clusterfuck – pre-scripted non-event. It astounds me that they thought they could get away with being so utterly devoid of any intellectual content.
It is so fucking stupid it beggars belief that. This is what have become of Scottish Labour – a party worse than the tories. She should take a bow, no really she should. She has achieved the impossible – to align what was once a left wing party to the loony fringe of the right. Tory is regarded as a four letter word in Scotland…but Scottisn Labour, they are nothing more than shit on the heel of Scotlands shoe – we really need to scrape it off – its beginning to wiff something awful.
Ritchie, I’m not doubting Jeff Duncan. I’m getting narked by people who keep posting the link to that video and saying, look, count them, there are way more than 5,000. Nobody actually seems to have done that.
It’s a perfect opportunity. Plenty of time to make sure you’ve got it right. Verifiable and repeatable. All that’s left is to estimate how many people went past before the camera started filming, and how many made it to the Ross independently.
People need to do the count before sounding off about what the result is, that’s all I’m saying. I’m a scientist. They don’t call me Thomasina because I’m a zombie cat.
@Morag
I counted the video for a couple of minutes after the camera turned to face up the mound and multiplied the minutes to get about 5000. I happen to know though that a few thousand had already passed that point before. I said before seeing the video that the march count was about 8000. Not the most scientific analysis but I’m not a scientist.
Well Stu you have done really well 125 comments so far and thats just for the 4 line trailer version of the article.
I listened carefully to what Johann Lamont was saying tonight on both Scotland Tonight and Newsnight Scotland. I have to say, she got a very easy time from both interviewers i.e. John McKay and Isabel Fraser, which makes me wonder what exactly is going on. Tonight we had the leader of the Labour Party in Scotland saying that Labour is declaring war on the elderly, the sick and the young, they are to be sacrificed on the altar of austerity. Yet both interviewers failed to mention the fact that the UK can still spend tens of billions on the Olympics, London sewers, Trident, the House of Commons and foreign wars to mention but a few. Something stinks! When a right wing fanatic like Murdo McLeod tweets in favour of a Labour leader, I smell a unionist rat trap.
I think Scottish Skier might be right, it looks as though a deal has been done and all 3 unionist parties are now resigned to independence. How else can you explain Lamonts lament?
Cuphook, I’m not sure multiplying the minutes works – there were thin parts and thick parts. Also, there weren’t thousands before that video started. I’m there at 42 seconds, and I started off from the Meadows relatively close behind the band. A few hundred, yes, but not a few thousand.
Actually, I don’t freaking care, because it was all about having a good day out and putting on something of a brave show. Which was accomplished. And the crowded state of the Ross at the end of it tells its own story. I just wish people getting all fired up about it and saying, here, count this video for yourself, would take their own advice.
Ah, I see you watched Clint do his repeat of Heartbreak Ridge again James. 😆
What the hell was in her water?
Jeez. She had a SCRIPT in front of her and she STILL fouls it up!
She mentions the N.H.S. then denies she would cut the N.H.S. budget, but then after some flailing of arms she FINALLY comes up with the idea about cutting the I.T. WHAT I.T. budget I don’t know but I can only guess that she was “possibly” thinking about, does she do joined up thinking by the way, the N.H.S. I.T. budget. She never DID clarify that one, nor anything else actually.
Methinks F.M.Q.’s on Thursday’s from now might be even MORE entertaining than normal as Lamont gets shot down in even BIGGER flames week after week after week after……..
Wow. The S.N.P. are spending £160,000 a year on advisors. Yep Johann cutting THAT budget will certainly go a LONG way!
Bill C said:
I think Scottish Skier might be right, it looks as though a deal has been done and all 3 unionist parties are now resigned to independence. How else can you explain Lamonts lament?
I’d love to believe you, but I smell wishful thinking. It’s a long hard two-year slog without any guarantee at the end of it.
Tried to edit, but was not allowed to because other folk had posted. Murdo Mcleod should of course read Murdo Fraser. Apologies to the ex-Captain ofCeltic! Indeed, humble apologies!
@Morag
It’s funny how people see the same thing differently. I was standing at the bottom of the Mound for a while (5 minutes?) before this video starts and I left the meadows a good few minutes after the band. When I reached George IV Bridge the march was already out of sight having turned into North Bank Street. When I was at the Unionist incident the march had still to clear the Royal Mile.
I know the multiplication doesn’t stand up to too much scrutiny but I can’t be arsed counting. As you say ‘it was all about having a good day out and putting on something of a brave show’.
@Morag
I’m not saying there was more than 5000. I just speeded up the video to make it more entertaining and easier to watch. I’d like to think there were more than 5000 but I really can’t be arsed counting them. Like yourself, I don’t care how much there was. It was the first march I’ve ever been on and I was only expecting 1000 tops.
I had a fantastic day, despite missing my bus home and having to drink in Deacon Brodie’s Tavern until I could get a train home at a reasonably late hour.
“Also, there weren’t thousands before that video started. I’m there at 42 seconds, and I started off from the Meadows relatively close behind the band. A few hundred, yes, but not a few thousand.”
I agree with you there. I was only a minute behind you
And, of course, we’re talking about different videos.
@Arbroath 1320
The NHS eHealth departments save a lot of money by finding solutions to the problems you would expect of a large organisation. Look at the implementation of the Community Health Index number: where ever you go in Scotland your medical records can be accessed and this results in cost savings and patient safety.
Lamont might be thinking of the notorious IT problems in England – where a patient identification system was ruled out as they couldn’t see how one would work, even though it was operational in Scotland.
All I can say to confuse the numbers even more is that I read, I think, a comment somewhere, that someone on the march had been talking to a police officer. After the pleasantries the discussion turned to the march and the officer had said they were told to expect between 2,000 and 5,000 but the reality of the situation was that there were a great many more than the 5,000.
Either way, whither it was 5,000 or 10,000 the figures are not the issue. The issue, in my view, is that the march ACTUALLY took place. The organisers did a fantastic job and, having “tested the water” next year’s event WILL be BIGGER and it will be even BETTER, if that is possible! 😀
Hi Morag, hope you saw my apology on the toom tabard issue. You are right to be cautious, however, I think whichever way you look at it, something is cooking, Labour, Tories and Libdems all united in attacking the poor, young and elderly in Scotland. Feels like the Bitter Together mob have already called muster stations and are ready to abandon the good ship Scotland . Here’s hoping at any rate.
All the best. Yours for Scotland.
Bill
Talking about different videos? Oh, are we? I only know about one. Could you clarify?
I heard the band leave the Meadows, and ran to get close because I wanted to hear the music, but I wasn’t right behind them. Then I dawdled to take some photos, and saw the banner belonging to my own constituency coming up behind, so dawdled a bit more to join them. We weren’t walking all that fast, and at one point I ran ahead a bit to tell the kids with the banner to bloody well slow down. I see Kenny MacAskill some little way behind me in the video but he was on my heels when we walked down the stairs into the gardens. I was held back to let a previous counted group go down the steps, but I don’t know how many more were before that.
Several hundred in front of me for sure. Not several thousand though.
Lamont might be thinking of the notorious IT problems in England – where a patient identification system was ruled out as they couldn’t see how one would work, even though it was operational in Scotland.
I think your right cuphook. I get the feeling she WAS talking about the fiasco that was the English N.H.S. I.T. programme. Still, as we all know from her performances at F.M.Q.’s she has NEVER let the TRUTH get in the way of a good old attack on Alex Salmond before so why would she stop now?
Bill, yes, Toom Tabard not an issue.
I don’t know what’s going on. It’s really, really weird. The complete blanket anti-independence line of the media spooks me a lot. I think there’s going to be a sea-change in something before the referendum, but it’s very hard to read.
I think we’ll do it, but I wouldn’t bet more than I could afford on that. Does that make me sound terribly Scottish?
@Morag
I thought that we were discussing this one
Cuphook, yes, that’s the only one I’ve seen. Is there another?
I also note it ends not quite before the actual end. I’m not sure how many more are to come, or if there are stragglers after the back markers (whom we can’t really see anyway).
If your comments refer to that one then I stand by what I said – and surely as a scientist you’d give an observer more credence than a participant (I just like winding up scientists).
Arbroath 1320 posted this one
Anyway, think I’ll go for a walk. It looks like a nice night.
I think Morag that the whole MSM thing is getting a wee bit scary just now. They continue day after day with their anti Independence bile. However, I think there a one or two subtleties occurring, can’t highlight them just yet, that will in time prove to be the beginning of the ripping apart of the MSM’s “love in” with the Bitter camp.
Lamont’s little fiasco yesterday only goes to confirm my belief that we WILL see a ramp change in the behaviour of one or two MSM titles within the next two years. I can NOT believe that with all the anti cuts articles appearing every day in the MSM that NO ONE in the MSM has put two and two together and come up with four. I know we mock the MSM a lot but even they can NOT have noticed the Tory photocopyesque speech given by Lamont yesterday.
Despite what we think about the MSM they are NOT stupid. I am confident that some one in the MSM will have noticed how similar Lamont’s speech was to the plans currently being undertaken by Cameron. It will not, I am certain, have gone unnoticed by the MSM either that Murdo Fraser CONGRATULATED Lamont on her speech. Surely one day soon some one in the MSM is finally going to break cover and come out and openly criticise Labour and the Bitter camp. At that point the game will be well and truly up as far as the Bitter camp is concerned, in my view.
I just want the data, preferably without having to count it for myself.
I see the video Arbroath started with now. I don’t know where the camera is situated on that one, showing my ignorance. However, the banner I was with (which passes in the first couple of seconds in the other video) doesn’t appear in this one till 9 minutes, so you’re right, there were more people in front than I realised. I still doubt “thousands” though. I haven’t seen myself yet. Where is that?
I think I know how a Coulter counter feels. Coincidence correction chart probably needed. And the guy with the Socialist Worker keeps getting in the way.
OK, I see myself now, at 9 minutes 46 seconds. It’s almost uncountable, because it’s only showing one of two entrances I think and some people are going past to the second, but others are passing shoppers on the pavement I think.
It must be turning in to go down the steps, but I don’t see the movement in the groups we were shepherded into for that. Must have smoothed out as the marchers went forward.
Johan is right to an extent:
50 grand could be saved by axing this position:
link to hm-treasury.gov.uk
60odd grand for Lib Dem special advisor Euan Roddin
link to number10.gov.uk
And of course the grand prize of closing the Scottish Office in its entirety.
There, 2 minutes on Google and more savings than Lamont proposes in her attack on Scottish Government advisors, and not a single poor or vulnerable person picked on.
Ideally, you’d want to count that one until the “Yes Borders” banner appears, to get the number at the front, then switch to the other because it’s showing the full width of the march without the same obstructions. Then maybe do a similar correction at the end. Not today, but I may give it a shot.
‘Bill C says:
Tried to edit, but was not allowed to because other folk had posted. Murdo Mcleod should of course read Murdo Fraser. Apologies to the ex-Captain ofCeltic! Indeed, humble apologies!’
Don’t worry, I’m sure Murdo M. would have been saying largely the same thing!
link to tinyurl.com
I has wrestled since reading the text of her Damascene moment.
Discounting some sort of extreme mental illness, as yet unknown, or congenital stupidity ( a difficult one for me to write off), I can only come to one conclusion; that it is all London dictated and centred.
The logic within goes something like this
We know that the real cuts from Osborne are going to come in next few years and we know that Scotland will not escape for the simple reason of Barnett consequentials.
Labour think that getting their retaliation in first, and at the same time their ineviability, importance etc (on message for the Home Counties and Pale Red Ed), their 2014 message will be that we cannot be immune to the reality of the London driven austerity measures.
And if we think we can be, we are wrong and really are too stupid and too wee to think we are grown up enough to live in the grown ups World?
To sum it all up, Johann and her puppet masters in London are setting a London based agenda to garner Home Counties votes and they are congenitally stupid.
Cuphook
I have to admit that (touching wood here), I’ve never been made redundant, and like yourself, I managed t save a by doing a lot of Overtime (and I mean a helluva lot of OT during the early part of the noughties).
As I said, I don’t feel teh same way as I did in say, 2006. The world is harder now, and no one truly knows when we will get out of this mess. Some people say it could be after 2020 before the world rights itself.
The 1 in 7 stat is probably due to people being stressed to the max. I read not that long ago that no other generation has known the stress levels like we have. We ALL have debt, and some have huge amounts of it (quarter of a million pound thru mortgages). Whereas in my grandfathers time, don’t get me wrong, it was hard, but they never carried that burden of debt. I think this is why so many people are on anti-depressants, because they are so close to the edge of teh cliff, where they could lose it all. And I mean more than the house. you could be talking families, marriages, everything. These are not good times to many people.
Here’s a comment from the lead Herald article this morning that proves that the irony overload has had far reaching effects…
–
Jim Gray, Siegen, Germany
I notice that many of the Nationalist commentators have failed to grasp the strategic relevance of Johann Lamont’s proposed reform of our party in Scotland. In the run-up to the referendum we shall be forced to share the stage with Conservative politicians to ensure that Scotland remains firmly embedded in the Union. To maintain our credibility in the eyes of the Scottish electorate we must demonstrate unity with our erstwhile political opponents, and Johann is shrewd enough to realise that a convergence of our policies (a process initiated by Tony Blair) is essential if we are to present a common front on the question of Scottish independence. The Conservatives have also made important compromises by supporting our demands for the Trident replacement and our participation in the Iraq invasion. Johann is at last showing her leadership qualities at a time when the very existence of Great Britain as a political entity is under serious threat.
@Arbroath & a few others
Cutting IT budgets? that would interesting to see – all public sector employers ( I should know, I work for one) were bounced into fixed term contracts with private firms to *handle* IT or ICT as they like to call it these days. Not one ever worked to the satisfaction of the agency involved, and there was sod all they could do about it. Another one of those situations were it was cheaper to let the contract run its course than attempt to end it early, as the system actually rewards vendor failure.
It would be one way to make real savings by ditching these crooks – but that would take a left of centre government with balls. Not the Scottish looney party which is firmly planted on the right.
As for the comment posted by seasick dave – Yeah it was all a clever ploy by appearing to be utterly moronic and being on the same policy wavelength as the hated tories will make people love the Union all the more.
I remember a post recently on Tory Hoose by one individual who thought the tories should embrace their unpopularity as that would win people round. Because principled parties with unpopular policies always win elections. I thought it was a brainfart from a man desperately trying to deny reality. Now I know it was a brainfart, I just never expected this particualr brainfart to passed off as a manifesto pledge by the labour party. Remember them, Remember Anas Sarwar saying he wanted to make the tories unemployment statistics? I do…I’m sure a lot of people will remember it as well, then wonder what this is all about.
We need to get rid of them – the tories, lib dems, and labour – then we can open the windows and get the smell of stupidity out of the seats. Make room for something a little more decent and less insane.
Johann says “cutting Trident is a false choice”. Is that because it’s nothing for something?
🙂