Wings Over Scotland

More unionist/(non)Green lies.

55% of Scots enter HE by the age of 30. 20.9% starting at further education College.and 34.1% going straight to University after school.in England 46,6% entered FE. More people people in Scotland enter FE. (Without the figures for those over 30 year old).

In England they just called all Colleges – Universities. .

The Labour/Unionists were mean-testing student loans on household incomes. Students of households of average earning couldn’t get a full loan (paid back) to go to University. The Scottish Gov has changed that but the figures have not come through. They are working on older figures.

People can learn a trade or skills at College which give them a comfortable living. Often better than University. Or they can go on to University – giving open access. These figures are not included.

There could be a difference between the numbers of young people as a percentage of the population between countries.

There are also 100,000 funded apprentice places. Are those included?

A higher number of people in Scotland enter FE than the rest of the UK. There is no attainment gap by comparison.

Wealthy students from elsewhere (20%?) are getting a subsidised education in Scotland. The money could be better spent on the early years, keeping class sizes down, teacher training on additional needs. It would help all pupils. More (part-time) courses/places would help vulnerable people.

The 3rd rate unelected rejects are an affront to Democracy. A few Professors are an affront to Democracy.

Yes, the inherent contradictions of the working-class loyalist Tory voter are truly a wonder to behold!

I am beginning to think, though, that in the bigger picture two opposing trends may possibly be getting conflated. At the last election, I suspect that a lot of Tories came out of the woodwork, partly inspired by Buffalo Gal, but mainly by the tax implications. After all, Brian Taylor on the BBC kept on telling us relentlessly that tax’n’spend was the issue. Aye, right. For the well-to-do, maybe. (Including BBC presenter types.) Those Tory voters who were previously far too sniffy to bother to vote for Holyrood, that “glorified parish council” as Tony Blair put it, now sense an imminent danger to their pockets and suddenly turn out in their droves.

Whereas many traditional Labourites, I reckon, just couldn’t see the point of bothering to shift themselves for Labour’s current shedload of inchoate numpties, so just stayed at home and watched the telly or painted their toenails or whatever instead.

So the situation may be somewhat more complex than can tidily be fitted in one witty cartoon. But the issue remains, even if at one step removed. If you don’t stand up for yourself, you can get trampled on. As the wee man said: “You may not take an interest in politics, but it may take an interest in you”.

(Which goes for the EUref too, despite what that recent poster on the previous thread was advising. Abstaining is a mug’s game.)

spot on chris.
How’s about unionist media closing the gap between the political spin and the reality?
eg on radio four 6 oclock news last night. and this is journalism. shocking. un believable.
‘the snp have been stopped in scotland’.- they get away with this by saying ‘some may say’.
this is complete and utter

Many years ago , no one learned a trade at college apprentices were taught in their place of work. Surely its time for the SNP to say to these twats, not everyone wants to go to Uni , whos gonna fix my car, whos gonna cut my hair , whos gonna fix the roads, fuck sake what are they wanting, 90% uni attainment ? They make my blood boil.. Oh great cartoon Chris as always.

Chris, as usual, hits a nail on the head but his works usually have more subtle overtones. I saw this current effort just after reading the on-line political news.

Here’s a related item:-

Blair warns of Corbyn, “Experiment”. Tony thinks, “It would be very dangerous for the UK to give Jeremy power”. This from the guy who took the UK into illegal wars.

He also imagines people dislike him more for winning three general elections for Labour than for taking us into illegal wars.

Sheeeeesh!

As Chris so well illustrates, it always amazes me how these total numpties are unable to see the real truth through their own warped prejudices.

That hit the marque Chris.

@Ken500 says: 28 May, 2016 at 8:20 am:

” The Unionists have destroyed the UK/EU/world economy. Killing and maining millions of innocent people. Bankrupted Britain.”

Whoa! There! Ken500.

First of all the unionists have not destroyed, “Britain” – just some of the parts of the UK bit of Britain. Secondly the UK is not bankrupted – just the Westminster Establishment controlled bits of the UK.

They have indeed killed millions and are indeed still killing off the old, sick, disabled and poor. However, the way they are doing that is by transferring wealth from the pockets of those multitudes of unfortunates into the much fewer pockets of the top 10% of the wealthiest people and of large business’.

The plain statistical facts show that, far from all suffering austerity together as their propaganda insists, those wealthy 10% have more than doubled their own personal wealth.

You cannot either be bankrupted nor suffering austerity measures when you more than double your wealth and the only place that wealth is coming from is from those who are suffering their Unionist Government austerity measures.

It is the poor and the UK government that are in financial trouble. It is not those wealthy right wing people who, BTW, are the ones who are shareholders in the big business’ that are tax avoiding.

BBC Scotland would have us believe our education system is in disarray, pupils abandoned. Their journalists read the morning papers for their topics, and then regurgitate what they read as if news.

Video of the main group working to stop independence here: link to wp.me

Bullseye every time. Brilliant, funny, sad.

I am afraid we can do nothing about he unequal education gap until we abolish the poor.

We are discussing “apples” but the BBC are giving us facts about”pears” and doing it with such confident and disapproving tones that your perception of reality just crumbles.

However they overdo the propaganda as we observe real life and instinctively we know things are never as bad as they say. Often our common sense tells us they just lie.

The rest of Britain (the majority) is in £Trillions of debt and rising. Only the US has more debt (pro rata).

There is a Unionist strategy here, thing tanks, institutions, group like the Sutton one, infiltration of Scottish everything.
They are improving their position across the board and pop up when required to underline the too wee,too stupid mantra that they love to push.

They are the enemies of Scotland, they are in prominent positions everywhere, working against the interests of Scotland’s democracy
to ensure we never gain ground, anywhere.
They are the cancer in our midst.

Chris – Nail – Head.

Perhaps another one with Senga holding a folded red-top and saying, “Am no votin fur the SNP till the bible tells me tae”.

Aye Chris whilst the poorest are feeding off a menu of the Mail & Record and voting for the Tories ’cause ah canny stand that SNP lot’. The other side of the Unionist alliance: Labour, have shut down another charitable organisation aimed at alleviating their plight…the Labour council in our ‘dear green place’ seem to have developed a real zeal for this of late.

City Property (landlord) has raised the rent by 4000% for the charity organisation ‘Glasgow the Caring City in Castlemilk forcing the organisation to close after 17 years.

The landlord, City Property is an ‘arms length firm’ of Glasgow City Council.

Ross Galbraith the manager of the charity has called:

‘…for other charities or firms who are facing eviction or rent increases to contact him, in the hope of working together to address the problem.

He said: “As a charity that is facing this ourselves, we would encourage any other small business or organisation who is going through the same thing to get in touch and come forward.

“We can see if there is any way we can draw from our collective experience or contacts and see if we can help anyone.”

What is going on here? Why is Glasgow City Council shutting down charities that provide assistance to those who need it most? We need these bastards removed from our councils next year.

‘As reported by the Evening Times last week, the company kicked out the Ruchill Furniture Project from its Chapel Street base and said founders had been illegally occupying the site for years.

Greater Maryhill Foodbank was also forced to leave its premises on the same street due to rent arrears, while the Afro-Caribbean centre on Osborne Street was forced out in April over mounting debts of more than £60,000.’

Dont you know – even the BBC are selling it – free education is a failed idea.

I am not sure how they mean its a failed idea, it certainly felt like it worked for me back at the start of the 1980s just before the Thatcher ramp down in student support.

I guess they mean it failed, in that private debt companies could not use HMRC to enslave educated workers in very profitable, for the private companies, debt for most of their lives.

proudbut nobut proudbut nobut proudbut nobut proudbut nobut…

Nice one Chris, Jockholm syndrome…

Heard this on GMS yesterday…

Lucy Hunter Blackburn from 1:08:30

John Swinney reply from 2:08:30

Who to believe?? mmmm…

link to bbc.co.uk

Is it just me that loves the way JS says ‘Scotland’

I heard on the radio the lady that wrote report (Hunter Blackburn?)I am sure I heard her say that the demand for places in Scottish universities is so great that it pushes up the entrance requirements thus lowering the chances of those from deprived areas where educational attainment is less likely to meet those higher critera.

The obverse of this is that in England demand is lower and therefore those with lower A level attainment can still secure a place.

I guess the author is suggesting that we charge fees to lower demand and therefore create space. If that is not correct then my apologies to her.

However, I am not entirely convinced that we should be looking at this from the university end. Surely raising attainment in schools and perhaps also having more places might be a better combination.

I am not sure how long this disparity will continue. Osborne has scrapped maintenance grants in England and students are finding that the interest rate on their student loans are not as low as once touted (they are currently 4%) This means that students with £40,000 debts are watching that debt rise by £1,600 a year.

There is a train crash coming down this line.

Peffers: “They don’t encrypt the news but have websites that anyone can access.”

A sad refection on the supposed integrity of the media.

In a similar vein, I’m working on an expose of the arts school fire. Those I approach who worked there clam up. Like pulling teeth so far, but am slowly getting facts and names of culprits.

Expect J’accuse soon on my essay site!

@ahura
Surely it is always better for the country as a whole to be highly educated in general?
With regard to society and culture, jobs, investment..

Was reading an article on how Ireland is bouncing back fast.
The “Celtic Phoenix” it is referred to now.

link to business.financialpost.com

IDA Ireland notes that many companies, however, choose the country not for tax-inversion purposes, but because it makes a natural launching point for European operations. In addition to the low tax rate, Ireland has a comparatively high level of workers with post-secondary education, more affordable office space and a large multinational presence.

“Yes, we have a very competitive corporate tax rate, but without having the other factors that go into making a decision on where to choose in order to build your sustainable competitive company, corporate tax rate is irrelevant,” New York-based Dowdall said.

“Off the top of my head, however, my reasons for supporting independence for Scotland are driven by my self interest.”

I think self-government will gradually result in a massive change in the attitudes and mindsets of our fellow Scots. It’s hard to quantify, but I reckon a lot of the social and cultural problems in Scotland are directly related to our constitutional position.
There has been a culture of dependency and a culture of ‘second best’ and “what’s the point” that comes from the very top.

Independence would be the boot up the arse that this country needs, and everyone could walk that little bit taller afterwards.

I don’t think anyone’s saying we should neglect the economy.
Personally I think far more money should be put into infrastructure, but when people are asked about top priorities its always health and education. Politically speaking it can’t hurt for the SNP to put a focus on education.
Everyone knows some parents are useless and won’t get involved at all. I don’t know the balance between nature and nurture, but it seems like a noble aim that kids from poorer areas have more of a chance to have an equal start and go on to university.

Pushing education signifies that the Scottish Government has the long term interests of the country at heart.
It looks like the next referendum won’t be in this parliament term, and if the figures improve over the next 5 years then it is a good campaigning point at the next election.

I benefitted from the Mature Student Grant and having zero fees to pay. Although there are those close to me that say I got no benefit at all from it because I am as fick as I ever was. But no fick enough to vote for any Yoon Party or their works.

I doubt that the SNPs goal of improving education will come to pass. Firstly because there are too many obstructionist Yoon controlled Councils. Secondly there are too many obstructionist Yoons in the teaching Profession. Thirdly there are too many Yoon enclaves in the Universities etc. Fourthly there will be a daily tirade in the Yoon Press and Media until the SNP drop whatever plans they do have even if the Yoons themselves like some of them. We have seen that before as they have years of form for it. I could go on but I wont.

The SNP plan might work but only if they stop playing nice and take the gloves off when dealing with heel dragging obstructionist Yoons.

@AhurMazda, you would do well to connect your virtual computer mind to the ether and realise that education within Scotland is only the very small part of the issue re higher attainment. In the world, for UK/Scotland to stay at forefront and have high (relatively) standards of living then we need to be in the better educated , higher earning opportunities.
I realised this early when I left school in top 3, left Uni in top 5% , was employed by a company who by reputation always selected from the top 10% of engineers. I thought I was clever etc etc . Then when I started working for the company I realised that EVERYONE was from top 5% and that working in R&D I was in a group who were in the top 1% engineering in the UK ! Then you realised looking around that you are “average” and some who realised they were below average in the group didn’t cope well with it. So it is with the world, In terms of new ideas, new products, new opportunities, it’s not the Scottish or the UK or even Europe we need to watch. It is RoW. and some of them are taking over the high end research and concepts 🙁
AND more importantly it’s not about me/us as individuals, but all 🙂

Peter, I don’t think it’s fair that you hold my lack of intelligence against me when you, as you point out, are in that top 1% in the known universe.

Anyway, basically you are making a point similar to Ruby’s, as I understand it, that education is key to advancing the economy.

There are obvious problems with the idea that an economy needs a a highly educated workforce in order to be successful. We must also bear in mind that success in socio-economic terms can be defined in a number of ways.

Anyway, if you look at say the US economy in the 1950s or 60s, or the any economy that’s experiencing a boom, especially the economy of Britain in the 19th century I would say, it’s clear that education wasn’t actually that important. I can go through other countries and into more detail if you insist.

Funnily enough, one of the biggest factors in explaining booms in economies is a supply of relatively cheap labour and — this is very topical — more often than not, a supply of cheap migrant labour. Again I can provide suggested reading on that if you wish.

In Glasgow I would say that we already have an oversupply of skilled, semi-skilled, and unskilled workers that are key ingredients required to kick-start an economy. What we lack is the infrastructure, political will, and resources. We’re right into the area of industrial policy now (which we don’t have in the UK or Scotland) but if you look at it for what it is you’d say that the only thing we don’t have is investment.

I heard in 2012 that the UK produced more cars than Germany. That isn’t because the UK suddenly became smarter than Germany, and it’s worth pointing out that none of those car plants were actually British, it’s because for one reason or another those car plants decided to set up factories in England. Do we have one single car plant in Scotland? Not that I know of, yet they are high-paying jobs; jobs that for the most part don’t require workers who are particularly high-skilled.

K1, I’m all ears. However, none of your links are valid.

Link 1: is a link to another humdrum article on tackling Child Poverty

Link 2: is the exact same as link 1 (looks like you or someone made an error)

Link 3: is an article about a proposed “multi-billion pound childcare package”

Link 4: Is a piece entitled “Nicola Sturgeon pledges action on causes of poverty” and in which, if you had read it, she proposes to focus on “transformational childcare, reforming our NHS and investing in housing and communities”.

I can see where you are going with your response. The point I am making is that it’s never really addressed as a key issue in itself in the context of job creation or really doing anything about it now.

There’s a big difference between, for example, tackling the causes of poverty and tackling real existing poverty right now. And it’s the same with education. Education might help future generations or something — might — but what about the parents who are struggling right now?

Here’s other questions: why aren’t we talking about industrial policy? Why don’t we have car plants? Why don’t we have HS2? Why is it the last time I saw a boat on the Clyde it provoked the response of “Oh, there’s a boat” from my daughter?

I understand there are limits, serious limits, on what the SNP can do and I understand that the situation is so bad because of Unionist neglect (I would say SLAB have a lot to answer for in that regard) but even so, why not prioritise it? I’m talking more specifically job creation and economic regeneration in Glasgow not some vague notion or plan to tackle the causes of poverty.

I didn’t use Tomkins in the way you are suggesting though; I called him a prick and said that he was only mentioning poverty for manipulative purposes to do with strengthening the Union. I can hardly imagine being more scathing towards him without mentioning his parents or something.

But listen, I’m 46. Call me old fashioned. All these grand plans about reducing child poverty and education and the causes of poverty, all sound the same to me.

When I talk about tackling real existing poverty, I think in bread and butter terms. It’s almost at the stage where we don’t even have the words or language to discuss these things.

Onwards suggested earlier that when asked people always say that education and health are their priorities and I think that sums it up; people have been sort of programmed to think that unemployment is just a fact of life in these parts, that’s how I read those polls. So much so that they don’t even consider it alongside other problems to be addressed and solved — it’s just a fact of life.

I don’t necessarily think we need to educate these unemployed people. And I don’t think improving their kids’ chances or tackling the causes of poverty is addressing the issue. In the old days they would have arranged for a couple of car plants to open up here, shuffled a few pieces of paper and created 100 thousand semi-skilled jobs.

Those days are gone only if we decide they are gone. As solutions though they are every bit as relevant today as they were in the past. Arguably more so. It’s as if this city has lost the will to live sometimes. There’s no economy in Glasgow. I refuse to accept that supermarkets and bookmakers amount to a real economy.

Paula, not sure I understand what you mean. I can assure you though that jobs and economics are as much at the heart of right of centre politics and economics as they are at the heart of left wing politics.

The business community generally are very keen on job creation. The concern is that you’d need to hammer us on tax to do it. It’s not as simple as that though.

I can easily imagine an independent Scotland with virtually no unemployment and a vibrant economy.

There’s huge spin-off dividends when it comes to job creation — you don’t need to spend so much on welfare, crime goes down, drug abuse goes down, health improves, and kids that are nourished perform better at school than malnourished kids. A list of these benefits could easily stretch a mile long.

For business-minded people that means more sales, greater stability and predictability, room for expansion, growth, etc.

Yes, I stand by that. Could be a language barrier, as you suggest.

Here’s the sort of initiative I’m talking about though. You should bear in mind that I don’t really watch TV or read papers so most of my thinking on stuff comes from what I perceive.

But take the renewables industry. I heard that in the month of March Scotland for the first time produced enough wind power to provide electricity for all the homes in Scotland. Very good, I thought, that’s an important milestone. Apparently it was an unusually windy month but even so.

Have you any idea how many of those wind turbines there are in Scotland? I assume you are familiar with these things, they are huge. Where I live there are hundreds quite near.

I have no idea how many there are, but there must be a lot. Let’s guess that there are 10 thousand all over Scotland. Do you know how many were actually made in Scotland? None.

Why are we importing them from Denmark? It isn’t rocket science, is it? They bring them over on huge barges and then take them by road to their destination. Madness.

Others on Wings will be a lot more informed on these matters Ahura, you should ask around, some of those who comment on here have a great deal of expertise on the energy and manufacturing sectors in Scotland.

K1, the motive-renewables and the gail-wind turbines aren’t the big most commonly used ones. The ones I am talking about are manufactured in Denmark and I think they are the most common ones… they’re huge. There are hundreds of them near where I live, near Whitelea off the Ayr road.

Thepnr, Thatcher had nothing to gain up here (hardly any of us voted Tory back then) and as an English politician she done what was in her country’s best interest as she saw it. Given the choice between closing down Scottish plants and English plants, she naturally chose to close ours down. That isn’t an argument against Thatcherism per se, it’s an argument for Scottish independence.

If Sturgeon had to choose between closing down Scottish factories or English factories, what do you think she would choose? What would you expect and want her to choose? Is that an argument against the SNP?

@Paula Rose

Neither do I. It served a purpose though only they can know.

What are you ‘driving’ at Ahura? Thepnr makes a very good point in political terms irrespective of you ‘dismissing’ it, the facts are the facts in terms of the loss of manufacturing in Scotland due to decisions taken by the Tory government under Thatcher. It’s well documented Ahura, no point in going over this over and over again, is there?

You don’t mention the other link I provided, regarding apprenticeships and Areva?

Why not? There is a definite intent on the part of the SG to create jobs in this sector Ahura.

So what is the point of the point you are making?

You would have to research this more and I suppose you could write to your MP and raise this point if indeed it is the case that we are not manufacturing these particular wind turbines here, find out the reasons behind why not?

It’s like you are annoyed by a lot of different issues, which is fair enough, but you don’t seem to go ‘beyond’ the annoyance and raise what you consider to be an important issue with those who could provide you with more in depth answers to your concerns?

You said it was ‘Madness’ and that it isn’t ‘rocket science’, so pursue it further if this is a real issue for you.

Christ PR, I feel like I’m in an alternate universe as it is…you’ll have to be more ‘literal’ wi me…

I’m not ‘that’ bright 🙁

Yeah ah know Thpnr.

Angra Mainyu says:
30 November, 2015 at 11:18 am
yesindyref2, I have 35 Twitter accounts with a combined total of over 2.6 million followers.
The only thing that hurts is the shallowness of people who think having large numbers of followers equates with importance or popularity.
Anyway, Twitter serves a few purposes in SEO terms but the truth is I don’t like it except for pestering people…
I prefer old style chat rooms and still use a couple of them sometimes. They’re better for debating as unlike on forums like this the debates are live… chancers get caught out very quickly in live debates.
I could say more about Twitter and one or two people who use this forum, but sometimes it’s better to say nothing.

I’ve called him for everything you have. It hasn’t made an ounce of difference, so I gave up over night and today. I’m not fighting with him anymore. He didn’t answer my last questions from our ‘spat’ last night, what do I do, chase him up about it? There’s nothing I haven’t called him out on, it makes no difference.

Yer either ignored or told tae leave him be, or yer a fool for engaging with a ‘troll’, and on and on it goes…to what end? And when you are getting assaulted by him, people just sit back and say…more or less: yer bringing on yersel’ for engaging with him in the first place. So ye just end up making a cunt of yersel’ on here as well. For what?

Unless it’s a unified approach it counts for naught, cause ‘divide and conquer’ works just as effectively on Wings as it does anywhere else real or virtual.

I was all over ‘off topic’ about him when he was Neoconnat too as his behaviour was just as it is and has been with this new moniker. Don’t engage, don’t engage, yeah…well so much for that. Now I’m just getting tired of Wings because of it. Because it has and is ruining the threads, he does provoke, he does assault, he does all of this, but still the Rev okays it.

Fine. It’s not worth my while arguing with him anymore. He can do whatever the fuck he likes, cause the only person that decides whether he can’t, isn’t me.

That’s why I’m being civil with him tonight because he isn’t that important really is he? Why waste my energies anymore ‘fighting’ against what is ‘actually’ completely acceptable on Wing’s btl?

So good luck tae ye Thpnr. I’m out of this one in terms of battling this anymore.

“I have 35 Twitter accounts with a combined total of over 2.6 million followers.”

How fucking delusional is that?

Ahuara Says:

“I went to University from an extremely poor background. I was a socialist back then and believed in free education for all, amongst other things.

In society everything is relative. If I have £10 and everybody else has £2, that makes relatively wealthy.”

What kind of a freak would come out with a statement like that? 🙂

Paula Rose says:
28 May, 2016 at 11:55 pm
@ Thepnr I never understood how a supposedly right wing party could destroy the manufacturing base of a country.

The “how” part was pretty straight-forward. I guess it’s the “why” people get stuck on. That said, the “why” is simple too, I just can’t be bothered explaining it.

I manage less Twitter accounts now, about 20 to 25, with over 3 million followers. It’s nothing to be proud of, just work. You can buy followers for buttons too.

K1, on the training link, I didn’t think it was worth mentioning and thought it best not to rather than appear negative. People have different ways of approaching things, it’s nothing personal.

I enjoyed chatting to you today. I thought it showed that if people were civil to each other then the hostilities could be avoided.

There’s no more to my point about economics than what I said. It seems like there’s an assumption in politics nowadays that about one third of society are to remain in the dark ages. Surprises me that the left don’t articulate that better but that’s partly why I think the left generally is obsolete.

I think the SNP should do more on this but I don’t say that as some back-hand criticism, I think it would be a huge vote winner. Be honest, looking at the state of Glasgow, how many people are going to get excited about a new strategy on education or tackling the causes of poverty?

@Robert J. Sutherland

Would love to and wouldn’t that be nice. Will it make a difference, so far it would seem not.

I don’t really know how to deal with someone who will say this:

“I manage less Twitter accounts now, about 20 to 25, with over 3 million followers. It’s nothing to be proud of, just work. You can buy followers for buttons too.”

Wee bit of madness there, if you have any idea Robert of how to cure or get rid of this madness then I’m all ears.

‘Be honest, looking at the state of Glasgow, how many people are going to get excited about a new strategy on education or tackling the causes of poverty?’

The very people who see it impact their own personal situations at the ‘coal face’. It’s not always about ‘in yer face’ populism politics, or ‘excitement’, these are not the hallmarks of a good functioning competent government.

The real grafting and the ‘results’ will not show up all over the MSM, it will not be publicised as a success. But the people that it is aimed at will have had genuine succour, their kids will not go hungry, their lives, slowly but surely will improve. Their children will ‘know’ the benefits and they will grow up understanding what it is like to be a citizen in a country that genuinely looks out for it’s own citizens.

They and their children will be the future decision makers when we are all long gone. Maybe just maybe someone looks back and isn’t ‘defined’ by their ‘poverty’ and it seems an impossible thing that such conditions ever existed, because that next generation made sure that what happened to their parents and grandparents never happened to anyone else under their watch.

It’s the future that really counts.

You got it K1.

Not everybody does giggle giggle giggle hahaha. Just kidding 🙂 🙂

“They and their children will be the future decision makers when we are all long gone. ”

See, I’ll be honest, K1. No offence okay, now don’t get pissed off at me and start yer language, but that doesn’t excite me very much. I’d prefer if they sorted things out now for us…

Ahura?

I see that you like ‘excitement’. That’s your bag. My ‘language’ as we were discussing last evening, was centred around the points that I made regarding your conduct on here with respect to your denigrating and assaulting posters who had differing opinions on various subjects, to yours.

You sort it it out ‘now’ Ahura. Make a difference in a positive way on Wings and cut yer crap out. But you won’t will you? Well that’s up to you.

You read what I wrote to Thpnr. So, why ‘act’ all ‘gingerly’ around me ‘now’. You haven’t given a damn how I’ve responded before to anything we have discussed?

I’m not the one who like’s the sort of excitement you do in political or ‘wind up’ terms. Whether you agree with me or not isn’t the point is it? You asked me a question, I gave an answer, I didn’t insult you and tell you that ‘you’ are ‘wrong’ for having a different view. You have shown incredible ‘intolerance’ to others views, I haven’t.

It’s a ‘choice’ Ahuradave. You are choosing the ‘manner’ of your responses because you enjoy battling with people. You ‘chose’ to be civil with me this evening. I ‘chose’ to be civil in ‘return’. It’s not complicated.

We’re just different. That’s all.

K1 at 03:13 said:

You have to ‘claim your fiver’ when you make that statement.

Drat! I’ve missed a trick there. This new-fangled netiquette, I’ll never get the hang of it… =laugh=

(But it is him, isn’t it…?!)

How typical. You try and have a political debate and the usual happens, blah, blah, blah, troll, troll, troll. Zzzzzzzzzzzzz.

We get about 5 sunny days a year and this is one of them. When I come back from a day out with the kids, I am sure I will be back here to runs rings around you all again, although I admit you are starting to bore me.

Incidentally, there’s a reason I’m here and there’s a reason I haven’t been banned… go think about that, assuming you don’t have anything better to do on a day like this. Those who run this site know who I am, I’ve donated, used my name in correspondence, and I use a static IP.

You accuse me of talking about myself all the time then you attack me with personal insults and devote 4000 yards of crap to talking about me… go figure.

And, as I have pointed out, I couldn’t care less if you know who I am. Is there a threat in there of some sort, you going to come visit and beat me up? Let me imagine how that would work: “like us or we will beat you up some more, troll”?

Let me assure you, if I ever find your political viewpoints unpleasant or disagreeable, I will explain why on here rather than threaten you or attack you personally, as I have always done.

Clarity and substance in the face of bonkers, as usual.

Did I miss something, has someone been outed ?