Choosing their Unions
We’ve made some progress. It’s just three days since we outlined a question that all the leaders of the Unionist parties should be asked, and we have our first answer. An alert reader emailed it to Willie Rennie, leader of the Scottish Liberal Democrats, and to his credit he gave a quick, straight and unequivocal response. This is it:
“I don’t like addressing too many hypothetical situations but in this case let me be clear. If we voted to leave the EU then I would still vote to remain in the UK. I am very pro European and will campaign to remain in the EU. In the disappointing situation of Brexit I would not seek to heap more division on that divisive situation.”
Now it’s Kezia Dugdale of Scottish Labour and Ruth Davidson of the Ruth Davidson No Surrender To The SNP Anti-Referendum Party’s turn. We’re sure that if any of their constituents were to drop them a line, they’d be equally forthcoming.
They have an easy cop-out here! Ruthie or Kez are not currently MSPs, thus are not compelled to answer any “constituents.”
Yeah, but they’re both standing for election and both will get in.
You’ll have to wait until 8 days before the election for Kezia’s response.
And, even then, it’ll be gobbledegook.
He made his bed in the referendum campaign and to be fair he’s chosen to lie in it. I’d guess, very much like self propelled Ruthie, oor Wull would view a second referendum on independence with horror.
As for his sound bite on division? Well he and the rest of the ‘Better Together’ team are experts on that score.
Sometimes I think the Lib Dems are even more unionist than the Tories. It’s quite incredible, considering people used to think they were the least unionist of the unionist parties.
Can you be sure Rennie wasn’t just telling a lie? Its their modus operandi.
Ruth Davidson of the no surrender to the SNP anti referendum party! Excellent.
Who is this ‘Willie Rennie’? :-/
Aye, let’s have them nail their colours tae their crosses, then folks living in their constituencies can decide whether they represent the sovereign people and ‘their’ choices.
People like Rennie forget that they are were they are to represent/reflect all voices in their respective polity, not to reflect their own narrow outlook and agenda. Not the brightest we wullie wankie, oops…winkie.
bobajock says:
14 April, 2016 at 10:48 am
Can you be sure Rennie wasn’t just telling a lie? Its their modus operandi.
Ruby replies
modus operandi? What is that in English? 🙂
If bizarre UKOK stuff like Sarah Smith’s BBC Scotland party political newscast on behalf of the SLabour party last night actually works, well you can see why red and blue tories wont bother answering.
Come on folks – fair’s fair.
At least, Wee Willie gave a straight answer to the question put to him,which is maybe a first for the UKOK gang.
I wonder if we will get a straight answer from the Scissor Sisters.
Willie is saying that he is very pro-European because I presume he believes that being part of the EU is best for Scotland but if the English electorate decide to leave the EU then he would be happy with that situation even if he believes it would be bad for Scotland.
I give him credit for a straight forward answer. I expect waffle from Kezia, but a similar unequivocal Union First stance from Ruth.
Where has the party of Home Rule and Federalism gone? Down the drain. Their Union will follow shortly.
The question doesn’t address the crux matter — the will of the Scottish people.
The emphasis should be on whether people like Rennie would be happy to dismiss the expressed will of the Scottish people or not. That’s the real issue.
And so the hypothetical should hinge on that key element; if the Scottish people vote to stay in the EU, are they going to be dragged out against their will by the UK?
Interesting that Rennie didn’t say he would oppose another indyref in those circumstances, he merely said he’d vote to stay in the UK. Does that mean he accepts we should hold another referendum if the RoUK votes for Brexit?
I’m fine with that. He’s answered the question and made his position clear. I don’t agree with him, but fair play to him- he has his opinion and he’s willing to let it be known. A rare modicum of respect for the LibDems
“If we voted to leave the EU then I would still vote to remain in the UK. I am very pro European and will campaign to remain in the EU.
What does he mean by we?
Let me clarify Willie’s position;
Willie prefers that Scotland be asset stripped by London come what may.
The question could be phrased another way. If the Uk votes to leave, but scotland voted to stay and then Westminster offered us the opportunity of a second independence referendum.(before being pulled out of Europe)Would you agree to this process?
Well that’s my vote off.
Cue amazing offer of free winter Spanish holidays for Scottish pensioners from Labour and the Ruth Davidson No Surrender parties
We are afforded I’d say some protection from Westminster by being part of the EU, Willie Rennie is an arsehole if he thinks Scotland being at the complete mercy of Westminster is a better solution than Indy, does one have to be the equivalent of a 40 watt bulb to become a Unionist party leader in Scotland? seems like it to me.
Slightly OT, I gave in and watched the program the other night on Europe’s origins and how the UK joined it, not once, I’ll say that again, not once did Scotland get a mention, as far as the EU was concerned it was all about England joining, England, England, England, England = UK This is how we were judged.
Enough of this pish, it’s about time Willie Rennie and his bunch of Union sect followers opened their eyes.
That’s actually pretty damning. Basically England rules at all costs even if it’s against the wishes of the Scottish people.
This is going to be a tricky question for all NO voters campaigning to remain in EU.
There will also be a few tricky questions for the separatists!
ie: I don’t want my cousins in France to become foreigners!
It should all be a lot of fun!
Is it even worth asking poor Willie Rennie complicated questions like this? Wouldn’t it be kinder and more realistic to ask him questions like “What’s your favourite colour?” or “Do you like pizzas?”.
Ruby in cop speap, M O.
Auld Rock
Wullie knows that he’ll be back along with Ruthie and Kez but on the opposition benches, so whatever he says it will not matter much.
He’s seeing out his time in a depleted party hoping that the present rump of elected Lib/Dems will manage to survive from the list votes.
PS:
Seventeen schools closed amid safety fears were not inspected by the council when their construction was completed, it has emerged.
Instead Andrew Burns, the leader of Edinburgh City Council, revealed the consortium that built them self-certified that they met “all the relevant building standards”.
link to archive.is
I think that’s completely fair enough, and credit for a rare bit of honesty. Maybe I shouldn’t read too much into it but it seems fairly clear that Rennie is saying, look I’m British first and that’s what it comes down to. You can’t force someone who is brought up in a country (whether that’s Scotland for one bloke and ‘Britain’ for another) to bear allegiance to it, though in the US you’d never get anywhere near an elected position if you didn’t. Indeed, who wants to bear allegiance to Westminster elites other than a) Orange Order members, b) people who have something to gain from it e.g. LibDem politicians c) Effie Deans
The most telling one would be what a Labour MSP thinks on this because they are the party of supposed international socialist background so they’re supposed to be against allegiance to any nation, whether it be Scotland or the UK>
So wee Wullie prefers to have the narrow shoulders of the UK rather than the broad shoulders of the EU?
Rev at 10:43
But will Wee Willie?
A century is a very, very long time in politics since the Liberals, as they were then, were the party of Home Rule.
crisiscult @ 11:30 am. Just wondering when any member of the Branch last claimed to be an international socialist. Aren’t they all Labour Ladies and Gentlemen now? “Filthy rich under New Labour” and all that.
I think he’s wrong but credit where credit is due (and I never thought I would say that about him) but he has given an honest and unequivocal – “it’s fine and dandy for one country to drag another country out of the EU against its will” or words to that effect.
I think in the unlikely scenario where we are dragged out of the EU despite voting to remain in there will need to be a swift move to Indyref 2.But in reality I don’t think that scenario is realistically going to materialise.
In fairness, that’s crystal clear fae Oor Willie.
Now I can be be crystal clear too:
May – SNP x 2
EU – IN
Indyref 2 – YES
Simples! 🙂
Slightly OT, I gave in and watched the program the other night on Europe’s origins and how the UK joined it, not once, I’ll say that again, not once did Scotland get a mention, as far as the EU was concerned it was all about England joining, England, England, England, England = UK This is how we were judged.
Well it was a Nic Robinson production. And Scotland WAS mentioned. An jolly old toryboy described negotiating with France, and how they charmed the French with English haute cuisine, including, “I think Scottish trout flown in.”
Other news, lots of redundant ex oil workers in Aberdeen overjoyed by BP’s pay awards, “Chief Executive of BP has been awarded a 20% pay rise as part of a £14m pay package.”
And UKOK red tory legacy via Scottish schools falling apart in rancid olde Graun
“With the council now preparing for a major compensation claim against the PFI firm involved, the Guardian has established that the true lifetime cost of the contract will reach £529m in cash terms by 2032 – nearly 50% more than the original, publicly declared costing of £360m.”
Yet to hear the BBC Scotland creep show even approach the topic with any Labour great, like Crash Gordon or Lord Darling, frankly.
If his attitude is that he supports whatever the majority English electorate want, even if it contradicts what the majority Scottish electorate want, he ought to seek a seat in England.
If he can’t support the policies of the people he represents then he should find another group of people whose policies he can support.
Wikipedia says he was elected as an additional member for the Mid Scotland and Fife region with 5.9% of the regional list vote. That’s not much of an endorsement. But it’s up to the people of Mid Scotland and Fife to vote for whoever represents their views.
Auld Rock says:
14 April, 2016 at 11:29 am
Ruby in cop speap, M O.
Auld Rock
Ruby replies
Ah now I understand. I assuming you meant to type cop speak! 🙂
call me dave says:
14 April, 2016 at 11:29 am
PS:
Seventeen schools closed amid safety fears were not inspected by the council when their construction was completed, it has emerged.
Instead Andrew Burns, the leader of Edinburgh City Council, revealed the consortium that built them self-certified that they met “all the relevant building standards”.
link to archive.is
Ruby replies</b
That is unbelievable!
Rule 1 of Liberal Democrating:
“I want what’s good for Scotland not what’s bad, and that’s what separates the Liberal Democrats from all the other parties”
That’s one of Willies favourite sayings, it confirms that no matter what the Liberal Democrats say, they’ll say it differently tomorrow because circumstances have changed since they said the first thing
Good on him. An unequivocal answer.
W.Rennie deserves no praise and it’s telling that when (very our well paid employee) tells the truth, we are delighted. He wasn’t clear about what he meant by ‘we’, and he is perfectly happy for Scotland to be shafted by WM, no doubt for another 300+ years.
He really is useless, imagine in another universe, if he was FM! Perhaps that’s too harsh, at least we get to see how incompetent the libdems are, when he spouts his rubbish. Liars as well.
Pay up Willie, your party owes Police Scotland a few quid!
Britain is synonymous with England. To many who live in other countries, England is ‘Great Britain’ or ‘UK’, call it what you will. That is the perception outwith Scotland. Not so Eire of course. No confusion there.
The unionist mindset is comfortable with his/her country being assimilited and controlled by its more populated neighbour. Comfortable even with being treated as a second class citizen. For them it’s a kind of natural order of things, historical or otherwise.
Notice recently how many English football games, international friendlies mostly, are pumped into our living rooms. All very normal. All very Rule Britannia. England is Britain, Britain is England, the unionist mindset reminds itself.
Can you imagine Scotland friendlies being pumped into English living-rooms? There would be riots in the streets. All very abnormal we would be told.
heedtracker says @11:38
I bow to your superior memory, indeed a fish from Scotland did get a mention, lolz
“The consortium that built them ( schools) self -certified”.
I’m sure the consortium would have a Quality Assurance Manual- defines procedures – in their offices. I insisted my teams applied Quality Assurance at the workplace.
Ruth, Modus operandi- Jist the wi’ thae dae it.
O/T A bizarre puff piece from the BBC re the Outlander second series now available on Amazon Prime (because the BBC won’t broadcast it.)
“Vive Les Frasers” covers the Battle of Culloden which will be marked this weekend – coincidence.
link to archive.is
scuse the rubbish I just typed, very our well, meant ‘our very well paid’, got a wooly head today, and my cat sitting in front of the screen is a slight hindrance, honest.
Hugh Barclay says:
14 April, 2016 at 11:20 am
We are afforded I’d say some protection from Westminster by being part of the EU
Ruby replies
Very true! I can’t think of anything more scary than Westminster having the power to decide on our human rights!
Did the EU not intervene re PFI?
We definitely need some independent body looking at all these dodgy PFI contracts especially when ‘cowboy builders’ can self regulate.
This all very worrying. Thanks to Capella for the figures. 5.9% of the vote,and he presumes to tell us what to think. Ach well.
However his stance is scary. He will campaign to remain. OK.
He will presumably concur with the remain campaign’s assertions the four horsemen of the apocalypse will descend on the UK and therefore Scotland if the vote is to leave.
Equally all will be sweetness and light if the vote is to remain.
So we have it. If rUK say leave but Scotland says remain, then
Willie will vote in any indyref2 to welcome the four horsemen and all their horrors to his constituents, rather than remain in sweetness and light with the rest of Europe.
He really is something else!
@ Ruby.
That is unbelievable!
No it’s not. Many companies now use self certification and self billing to reduce adimin. costs. However they do random checks and spot audits to make sure the work is being carried out correctly. They also may ask for open book accounting and supply chain inspections.
With the spot audits you have to hit very high % pass marks usually in excess if 98%. If you don’t hit these targets you are heavily fined by the customer.
Question on the schools is did the council have these back up systems in place and where is the evidence.
velofello says:
14 April, 2016 at 12:03 pm
Ruth, Modus operandi- Jist the wi’ thae dae it.
Ruby replies
Ruth!
Ruby says
Seventeen schools closed amid safety fears were not inspected by the council when their construction was completed, it has emerged.
Can you remind me which party was in charge of Edinburgh Council at the time?
BBC TV / MSM seem to hsve kept the public in the dark over this.
A tenuous link to this article and not completely off topic is McTernans latest contribution in The Telegraph.
It would now appear that Brexit is now inevitable, given McTernans support and advice to Corbyn…
I expect Yoonery en mass to campaign for their Union in IndyRef2, no matter what precipitates it.
However, there may come a point, perhaps even before the Ref is called even, where it might become highly likely that Yes will win by a good margin.
What then for Unionist career politicians? If the settled will of the Scottish people becomes Indy, do Ruth, Kezia, Willie disappear from politics? Or, do they see political life after Indy?
Basically, who will abandon their Union, and how early?
Re, Jas@12pm
Yes indeed, the UK is in fact england. People seem confused, when it comes to devolution, they can’t understand how it works, and having two ‘governments’ causes untold confusion, among some it really does.
Last year some friends in england, non resident unionists for Scotland, (!) and I quote, ‘but you are part of the same land mass!’. I lost the will at that point.
Roughian says:
14 April, 2016 at 12:09 pm
With the spot audits you have to hit very high % pass marks usually in excess if 98%. If you don’t hit these targets you are heavily fined by the customer.
Ruby replies
In the case of these PFI contracts who is the customer?
Am I wrong in thinking that the contracter is the customer?
Not impressed with Wee Willie.
I agree with Giving Goose, Willie has simply clarified we should all just bend over, and think of England, in the event of Brexit.
Brexit will plunge this island into the Dark Ages with regard to any kind of concession for the working classes. It will look like a post apocalyptic film – The Road. London will rule like Mordor, with that giant eye thing.
Go over to Bella. Latest article describes what a London lobby group wants. Best case ever for Independence.
Seriously, go and read it – and weep.
@Sinky 12:09
Gary Robertson did have a wee go at “Labour” on this morning’s GMS.
Starts at around 2h 7m 40s into the programme. Two bits- first with Andrew Kerr, and Andrew Burns in the second bit starting around 2h 10m 40s
link to bbc.co.uk
I have to say, the second bit had a few opportunities to press home the fact that the “rules” in play at the time were under a Labour Scottish government. Pity Gary didn’t press home on that.
Is he not going to demand an inquiry first?
@NeoconNat
is right. The issue is the will of the Scottish people.
An alternative question could be -:
In a situation where Scots vote to stay in the EU but are being pulled out by the UK result, would you -:
vote against a second referendum and thereby ignore the will of the Scottish people, or
vote for a second referendum?
Sorry Stoker but the original BBC link on that Outlander story is better because archive deletes the pictures.
link to bbc.co.uk
I watched the BBC history programme on Ancient Greek Democracy last night on the iPlayer. An interestng take on how democracy and theatre developed in tandem (apologies to Keverage). Unlike Scotland where neither democracy nor theatre flourish.
link to bbc.co.uk
BBC Alba is often interesting e.g. the series on the Easter Rebellion includes a few bios of the leaders which were removed recently from Youtube. If you’re quick you can watch Eamonn Ceannt’s story. Too late for James Connolly and Thomas Clerk though.
I’ll post the link as it’s hard to find:
link to bbc.co.uk
@ Ruby.
Point taken but council should still have some kind of audit in place.
He has indeed answered , quite happy for us to remain in the union. So what , its not his call.
Hes still a rude wee knob.
That’s exactly the response I would expect from any unionist.We had a referendum on independence 18 months ago which the unionists won by a decisive margin.The people voted to remain part of the UK.The EU referendum will be decided by the population of the UK as a whole.
Hopefully all parts of the UK will vote to remain in the EU.Then we can get on with the work of persuading Scots that Scotland should have her own place in the EU.Which will be a much smaller step than it would be if rUK isn’t in the EU.
@Doug Daniel
Yeah, the Liberals contain some of the most diehard elements of unionism in Scotland. You just need to look at the likes of Rennie, Christine Jardine, Tavish Scott etc.
I suspect Ruth Davidson to say the same kind of thing as Willie Rennie in terms of the Union and the EU. Kezia Dugdale would probably be the same, although she may well try and gauge what way the wind is blowing on any particular day.
Hugh Barclay
I sat down to watch the same EU origins programme with Nick Robinson. I was amazed, after all the fanfare and the ‘big name’ how bad it actually was.
I’m not sure if they had stripped an old programme or just dredged through the vaults for a load of old clips of Churchill and MacMillan and Ted Heath, and interviews with civil servants.
Analysis there was very little and in terms of the economics of the EEC, and the economics of Europe at the time of the early treaties there was just nothing. It all looked like it had been cobbled together by a junior on a shoestring (though Nick would have been well paid for pontificating on the cliff edge at Dover).
The public have yet to be given anything of any real substance to make a decision on the EU and this added nothing.
As for Scotland region- you were left wondering if we were involved at all. Nick talking about us and them. It’s fair to say we are not part of ‘us’ but we’re not ‘them’ either. ‘Who?’ Would be more appropriate.
Fair dos to Willie he has at least answered clearly.
Wee bit “UK union comes first” but I suppose that is consistent with his role in Better Together.
Willie Rennie correctly identifies your question as hypothetical. It is also very unlikely.
It is difficult to visualise how the condition “stay in one union” could arise. In the event of Brexit, the UK would most likely be outside the EU before a second independence referendum takes place. So the option of saving one union would not arise.
I suppose asking irrelevant questions about Europe helps divert attention from the real issues.
If you do not belief Scotland is a country in a union with another you will respond as wee willie did.
The unionists in general have accepted the brainwashing that our nation has the status of region.
Scotland is a nation and the sustained attempt over 300 years to undermine that status should be opposed. Do any of those diehard supporters of the Union every pause to consider the text of the Act of Union?
SNP X 2
EU in
Ref2 YES
…it will come
Rennie, uniquely for anything with that name, actually gives me indigestion.
But well done on this occasion for confirming what everyone else already knows about unionist politicians, even if they won’t normally state it quite as plainly.
They can claim to be democratic all they like but where Scotland in the UK is concerned democracy can be suspended because they don’t think we should be independent.
Tough shit, Willie. No one’s asking your permission.
I suppose asking irrelevant questions about Europe helps divert attention from the real issues
The real issue of Labours PFI scandal. When will arrests be made Phil?
@ Capella (12.32pm):
Absolutely no need to apologise to me my friend! The BBC, as things stand, do not gain any financial advantage from us clicking on their links, give them time though they’re a bit slow you know.
The only currently important reason for archiving BBC links is to preserve the written content as it was originally written, or as it was written when discovered because the BBC are known for changing the wording of articles faster than you can blink.
Anyone posting direct links to Unionist organisations which gain a financial advantage from our clicks is hurting our cause, not me.
😉
A straight answer to the question posed. Willie has confirmed himself as an arch unionist regardless of what the Scottish people want.
“If we voted to leave the EU then I would still vote to remain in the UK.
Which “we” is that Willie? What about “we the people”? The people you are putting yourself up to represent in the Scottish parliament.
Away on down the M6 and collect your Quaker groats.
SNP x 2
I wonder if Willie still wonders if anyone worked out/ got his pictorial message from the farm the other day that the lib dems are F****d!
If Willie believes:
“The EU is by far the UK’s biggest trading partner.
EU countries buy 44% of everything we sell abroad, from cars to insurance.
Remaining inside the EU guarantees our full access to its single market. By contrast, leaving creates uncertainty and risk.
The EU’s single market has over 500 million customers
and an economy over 5 times bigger than the UK’s.
The single market makes it easier and cheaper for UK companies to sell their products outside the UK,creating jobs as a result.
Being inside the EU also makes it more attractive for companies to invest in the UK,
meaning more jobs
Over the last decade, foreign companies have invested £540 billion in the UK, equivalent to £148 million every day ”
It’s going to be a hard argument for Willie to make as to why Scotland should loose out on all of the above. I suppose he could revert back to the Project Fear argument about iScotland not being able to join the EU or that Scotland ceased to exist in 1707 and became lesser England or whatever it was the the lawyers Westminster hired at an £millions (undisclosed) cost to the taxpayer said.
IndyRef2 after Brexit will be interesting!
Perhaps the Yes IndyRef2 campaign could reword the £9.3 million document produced by Westminster and just change UK for iScotland.
link to tinyurl.com
Roughian says:
14 April, 2016 at 12:35 pm
@ Ruby.
Point taken but council should still have some kind of audit in place.
<Ruby replies
I think we need a thread where we can discuss PFI fully.
You would think that somebody somewhere should be ensuring buildings used by schools & hospitals are safe but it would seem that is not part of the PFI contracts.
I’d say that how the party leaders answer this question is critically relevant to our current and future politics. So far we have two clear answers. The First Minister and the SNP are pretty unambiguous about where they stand as regards unions and the will of the people. Wee Wull has now clarified his position.
Any time at all for the Cons and Lab then.
Phil Robertson says:
14 April, 2016 at 12:56 pm
Willie Rennie correctly identifies your question as hypothetical. It is also very unlikely.
It is difficult to visualise how the condition “stay in one union” could arise. In the event of Brexit,
It all ties in with the building pressure for ending this farce union Phil.
It also exposes another of the historic lies Project Fear Bettertogether monster Scotland’s fledgling democracy, vote YES and you’re out of Europe.
Vote YES and you’re out of Europe and they wont let you back in.
Vote YES and you’re out of Europe and they wont let you back in because you’re shite.
Vote YES and Alex Salmond lied about EU legal advice, are you all so stupid to believe him.
Vote YES and you’re out of Europe because you’ve the worst deficit in the known world and its even worse than Greece and look what the EU did to Greece, is that what you want YES voters?
Dont ask why you’ve got a giant deficit though, ever.
That last one’s just the latest UKOK unionist Project Fear bullshit vomited over us Phil and all of it could mean less than nothing with Brexit.
I don’t think he has answered the question at all. He is saying if UK exits EU, then he would want Scotland to stay in UK because “I would not seek to heap more division on that divisive situation”.
He is comparing (a) Scotland in UK + UK out of EU against (b) Scotland out of UK and out of EU.
The question is supposed to be comparing (a) Scotland in UK + UK out of EU against (b) Scotland out of UK but in EU. That isn’t “more division”. It is choosing between two quite different unions.
What Penis Rennie is saying is that he likes the idea of his Britain being in the EU but isn’t really that bothered about Scotland’s status, other than that it is governed by the British.
Isn’t that about the long and short of it Cocky ?
O/T
Are ‘Lib Dem values working for you’?
As we discuss the campaign to elect MSPs and the EU referendum, how many are aware of another election for a Lib Dem who will be able to vote on UK legislation that can affect us all?
By 18 April, three Lib Dem hereditary peers sitting in the House of Lords (HoL) will have voted to select another Lib Dem hereditary peer to join them. So, an electorate of three and seven Lib Dem hereditary peers standing as candidates (see: link to parliament.uk ).
No doubt in a spirit of transparency, the latter official document contains ‘Candidature statements’ – but these must be no more that 75 words long! And they are optional: one of the candidates (‘Thurso, V.’ on the ballot paper, aka John Archibald Sinclair, 3rd Viscount Thurso) has not bothered to submit one.
This election will preserve the number of hereditary peers in the Lords at 92, following the death recently of one of their number – this continuing presence of hereditary peers is another fine legacy of the Labour Government reforms in1999.
It remains a much sought after position. The HoL maintains a Register of Hereditary Peers who wish to stand for election under this process as members of the House. For session 2015-16, the number of peers lining up to be considered as candidates for this type of election in future is c. 190.
Tim Farron, the Lib Dem leader wrote an article on HoL reform in 2015 (see: link to libdemvoice.org ). In it he states:
“So today we recommit our party – and its new Peers – to working actively for the reform of the House of Lords and ideally its abolition in favour of an elected second chamber. We urge the other parties to join us in this effort.”
And from the same article:
“We send our soldiers abroad to fight (and sometimes die) for democracy. But we do not yet even have it fully in our own Parliament. The time to put this right is now. To delay further in the face of recent abuses would be an affront to our democracy and to our country.”
But in the meantime, Lib Dems seems happy to see this ridiculous election proceed rather than take a principled stand. As a party, why not just refuse to participate?
The HoL is just one reason why DevoMax will never satisfy me!
Dont really care what wilbur heartburn tablet has to say about anything he is totally irrelevant.
Like all lib dems politicians they hide behind a cloak of lies they are not the lib dems they are the neo lib dems and before anybody says but they use democrats didnt i just say they are liars and that has been proved in a court.
go away lib dems your services are not required.
There used to be a fair few Lib Dems who were pro Indy or at least pro some form of devolution or home rule. Those people still think that way, it’s just that they’re no longer Lib Dems. The 2014 campaign outed their ultra yoon colleagues for them and they bailed. All like that who I know are now 2 x snp and many joined the SNP. Its thus no surprise that many of the remnant LDs are now ultra yoons.
It’s worth recalling that that SNP has its roots in disaffected Liberals and Unionists who formed their own parties on becoming pissy sick with Scotland’s interests being ignored or acted against by their fellow Liberals and Unionist party members. Those parties would merge to become the SNP.
Once they get the message properly, LD converts never go back and are good fighters for the cause. There are far fewer soft non ultra yoon LDs left, but they are worth looking for and effort spent converting them.
Willie Rennie is not in fact answering the question straight, he is adding his own assumption to the hypothetical.
We want to know what he would choose if he could only have one of EU or UK membership. He is saying if we get dragged out of the EU by rUK he doesn’t want to add more division by leaving the UK too. But of course leaving the UK to rejoin the EU would not be adding to the division.
So, a game attempt, but that wasn’t the question.
Poor Wee Willie, the only Rennie guaranteed to give you indigestion.
At least he gave a kind of an answer.
Presumably Kezia will wait until eight days before polling to share her thoughts (sic) with us, an unmissable haud-me-back opporchancity.
Cannae wait.
The Liberal Democrats used to be Federalists.
Now they’re just lists with the exception of Tavish, and perhaps not even him.
Socrates MacSporran says: “I wonder if we will get a STRAIGHT answer from the Scissor Sisters.”
Sorry but I spat my beer at the screen with laughter.
I am going to sue you MacSporran for cleaning costs lol
I thought “rennies” were taken for heartburn, Then again ….
Clootie @ 12.58.
Treaty of Union, not “Act”. We can walk away from same at any time. LAW.
So “wilie” Rennie would not accept that Scottish votes are paramount. In other words, he will always default to Westminster and the English vote so as not to be ” divisive”.
Sp, if Westminster decides to introduce direct rule in Scotland against the wishes of the Scots, then Wilie Willie would accept that. Does that make him anti -Scottish? Is his party just a bunch of fifth columnists faking their role in Holyrood? Unwittingly, Rennie has just admitted Scots do not matter, or rather his party is a sham and he is a phoney.
His apparent “honesty” is a cover for his contempt for Scotland. He has really no integrity.
Anent Rennie’s fear of being divisive.
He does not want more division if the UK votes to leave the EU and Scots vote to remain.
But who is being divisive? The unionists reaction to anything Scots do is that it is divisive if it is not what, well the English, want to do.
As Holyrood is developing policies which focus on needs and issues north of the Tweed,Rennie’s fear if division taken to its logical conclusion is that that per se is “divisive. So, he is saying England is the norm and we are the abnorm and must always defer. Why is he standing for Holyrood? Why is his party along with the Tories and Lab in Scotland scraping along the bottom with one MP each and trundling along in the polls for Holyrood? Does he never ask that? Does he live I his wee detached Westminster good! world? It is surreal to say the least! He will advocate next the abolition of Holyrood because it is divisive and it does not ape Westminster. Next step, he will brand it seditious and have its MSP’s rounded up, well he would likely say only the SNP ones as they are baaaad!
There are both Acts and Treaties of Union. Technically apart from the subtlety of the constitution not being a devolved matter all the Acts do is enact the provisions of the Treaties. Interestingly enough given that the Acts have been amended there’s no need to revoke ours in order to become independent. Arguably the treaties have already been broken as no attempt to amend them has been made.
I suspect Dugdale and Davidson were to give an answer they come up with some excuse as to why Scotland should remain part of the UK if the vote were for a vote to leave the EU.
We seen and heard it all before from unionists politicians, I can’t remember the name again of the Labour MP Scotland, who was asked if was Scotland financially better off being independent would he support independence his answer was no.
@ Peter McCulloch above.
I think you’ll find it was Jim Hood
skozra
15 April, 2016 at 11:49 am
Thanks
Rennie must know full well that during the indyref and since, the FibDems have deliberately been conniving with others to encourage disaffection in the Northern and Western Isles with the professed aim of detaching them from Scotland and turning them into UK Crown dependencies (like The British Virgin Isles, for goodness’ sake!).
So he is a double hypocrite, firstly by his sanctimonious “aversion” to division, and secondly by pretending to be in favour of tax transparency yet being party to a ploy to create yet more Brit overseas tax havens!
(Not to forget JRRT, the FibDems’ very own American-style SuperPAC, who gave £50k last year to their Scottish branch office – and this on top of the personal handout to their lonely Scottish MP – to help them prepare for the 2016 elections.)