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Wings Over Scotland

Un-national anthems

Posted on December 02, 2019 by

We couldn’t help noticing this unusually revealing quote from former “Better Together” campaign chief Blair McDougall in today’s Times.

A couple of things leap out.

One is that McDougall apparently sees Scotland and the UK as two separate and fundamentally hostile countries, which is pretty interesting in itself. We can’t say we disagree, but it’s intriguing to hear it coming from someone like him.

(And he can’t mean England, because England doesn’t have its own national anthem, and it would be an incredibly bizarre interpretation of the question anyway.)

It’s also a pretty twisted view of the two songs. “Flower Of Scotland” isn’t so much about being “at war with” another country so much as about repelling an invasion. It’s not even like “La Marseillaise”, an anthem with a similarly defensive theme but a very militaristic air, which glories in wading in the blood of one’s barbarian enemies who “come to slit the throats of our sons” and would “tear their mother’s breast to pieces”.

“Flower Of Scotland” merely sends the invaders home “to think again”. It’s a slow-paced and regretful lament, which even expressly makes the point that the days of violence “are past now, and in the past they must remain”, suggesting only a peaceful resolution to the question of Scottish nationhood. It’s a very odd thing to describe as “dripping with bitterness”.

(It’s also not very much of a surprise that McDougall prefers the tartan-and-shortbread teuchtery of “Scotland The Brave”, skirling on with a load of romanticised expat guff about bagpipes and misty Highland glens and whatnot, from a guy whose two principal residences in his life have been Glasgow and London.)

And what of “God Save The Queen”? We’re constantly told by huffy Unionists that the verse about crushing rebellious Scots was never part of the “official” lyrics, so in what sense is it a song about being “at war with” Scotland? Spuriously attributing it with that meaning may tell us more about Blair McDougall than he’d like us to notice.

Indeed, GSTQ isn’t even a song about a country at all. Almost uniquely for a national anthem, there’s no mention of the UK or Britain or even England anywhere in the words – it’s purely about the personal glorification of the monarch and the abasement of the populace (“long to reign over us”), which is a pretty weird national creed for a self-proclaimed socialist to be signed up to.

Countries choose their anthems as a message to the world, a hopeful ideal of how they want their national character to be perceived, and McDougall has pledged his allegiance to one whose manifesto is “shut up and know your place, oiks”.

But ultimately we must note that when explicitly given a choice of anthems, even Blair McDougall picked a Scottish one rather than a British or even a global one, the vile separatist. (Although it might just be that there have actually been very few positive songs written about Britain, and if he’d gone for “Rule Britannia” it might have forced him to confront something unpleasant.)

Because at the end of the day, readers, even the arch-Brit himself knows that you can’t ride two horses forever, especially when they’re going in different directions. Sooner or later, we all have to pick a side. Maybe Blair will surprise us all yet.

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    292 to “Un-national anthems”

    1. Alasdair Angus Macdonald says:

      If there were a BRITISH national anthem, then, by the criteria you have indicated in your piece, “Rule Britannia” would fit the bill. However, with its prominent place at the “Last Night of the Proms”, it has become a jingoistic triumphalist piece linked to ‘Jerusalem’ and “walk[ing] upon ENGLAND’S pastures green.

      Indeed, at “Proms in the Park” at Glasgow Green, it does not even feature.

      Although many people of working class background, such as I have enjoyed promenade concerts other than the Last Night, the Last Night has become a jamboree of ENGLISHNESS/BRITISHNESS, mainly by a fairly affluent class.

    2. Camy says:

      TBF Alistair Jack Is trying to get the Jocks to sing Rule Britannia at the end of the proms

    3. Brian says:

      The man is an arse….After independence it should be The Proclaimers I would walk (500 Miles) and England should have the Archers Theme tune…that worked well at the Rugby 7s although Kenya did come out to The Lion Sleeps Tonight.

    4. Cellar Shark says:

      All this article proves is that Mr McD isn’t too bright.
      He will enjoy the celebrity status bestowed on him by Kenny Farquharson interviewing him for The Times.
      And so the unionist narrative continues.

    5. ScottieDog says:

      FOS has had its day. We really need something brighter.

      Must be hard being Blair MacDougall – desperate not to fall into obscurity. Nae sympathy though.

      God save the queen is strangely relevant at this time as the English working class look to be voting for a return to feudalism.

    6. Big Steve Chisholm says:

      Scotland The Brave, eh?

      Here comes the Highland granny…

    7. ooft. More like it,Stu.

    8. MajorBloodnok says:

      I like Scotland the Brave, the tune in particular. It’s jaunty and uplifting.

      But let’s get the words updated, for example by the notable lyricist Irvine Welsh.

    9. dadsarmy says:

      Why did Blair McDougall cross the road?


    10. Corrado Mella says:

      Slow news day, Rev?

      Nobody cares about BMcD. Not even himself.

    11. Den Cairns says:

      I think Scotland’s NA should be penned to the ending of Prokofiev’s 6th Symphony. That’ll get yir attention ;o)

    12. George Clark says:

      It may be apocryphal, but I’m sure that I heard that GSTQ and the North Korean national anthem stand out as the only ones to glorify the leader, rather than the country.

      Worth repeating anyway…

    13. starlaw says:

      Our national anthem is all about God saving a filthy rich auld wumman from God alone knows what.

    14. Socrates MacSporran says:

      The trouble with FoS for me is, it is too-often played too slowly. The brass band at Cardiff has become very good at making it sound hellish, they play it so slowly.

      However, it does remind us, but for Bruce and the events of June 1314, we would lang syne have been in reality a region of England – so, that emphasis of our unbeaten state – until our Lords and MPs were bribed to sell-out – should be remembered.

      As a tune, Highland Cathedral knocks FoS out of the park, however, although I am not sure about the words.

      For me, nothing makes me more Scottish, or brings a tear to the eye, than that bit at the end of the Edinburgh Tattoo, when everyone else has left, jsut the massed pipe bands, marching out to Black Bear and Scotland the Brave.

      Do we really need words to an anthem? Just play that. If it doesn’t get our teams going, nothing will.

    15. Bob Mack says:

      Scotland the brave, modern lyrics by Cliff hanley who was a conscientious objector and a Labour activist.

      I also heard he believed in the UK.

      Ah well.

    16. tridentitycrisis says:

      The Marseillaise has seven verses, all relentlessly nationalistic, aggressive and gory. It includes a “children’s verse” where they sing that they’d rather share their ancestors’ coffins than outlive them because they [the children] need to avenge those who came before them…! But it does have a great tune.

    17. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      starlaw @3:19pm

      You and some others on here forget what the queen and the royal family do for us.

      Remember your place.

    18. Gary says:

      Mcdougall is a vile individual who personifies all that is detestible with Scottish unionism. He is nothing more than a subservient coward.

    19. Doug Bryce says:

      brexit exposed the real nationalists.

    20. dadsarmy says:

      @starlaw “Our national anthem is all about God saving a filthy rich auld wumman from God alone knows what.

      Prince Andrew?

    21. KOF says:

      Scots Wha Hae, Marche des soldats de Robert Bruce, or Hey Tutti Tatie would be fine with me! 🙂

    22. Capella says:

      England does have national anthem. They play it very year at the end of The Proms and used to at the end of the Tory Party Conference, maybe still do?

      Land of Hope and Glory

      Land of hope and glory, mother of the free
      How shall we extol thee, who are born of thee?
      Wider still and wider shall thy bounds be set
      God, who made thee mighty, make thee mightier yet
      God, who made thee mighty, make thee mightier yet

      Second verse, same as the first.

    23. Artyhetty says:

      Again, like devolution, with majorly important powers ‘reserved’ to Westminster, in England, the whole ‘UK’ construct is a farce.

      Hasn’t it now reached the point where devolution is not fit for purpose for Scotland, the royals though they inhabit far too much of Scotland’s land, are not accepted as sovereign in Scotland, and there has never been a QE the first in Scotland.

      The ‘national’ anthem of so called ‘UK’ and independent countries as Stuart mentions, is also a farce, given that most people are a) not religious, and b) displays an antiquated and outdated attitude, as well as being counter to a 21st century, modern, forward looking society. It’s just patronising c**p.

      Once Scotland is independent, there needs to be a serious discussion on whether the so called royals have any place in a modern 21st century country. If people are so keen to hang onto them, they can donate via a crowdfund for the upkeep of the many castles etc that the ‘royals’ stole from Scotland many years ago.

      It’s time to stop worshipping these people and asking why do they still take from the state yet live in sheer luxury, while stepping over the poor. It’s immoral and it’s not acceptable.

    24. orri says:

      Scotland the brave is far less twee than you’d think

      First verse, bagpipes at night sounded to raise the hearts,
      chorus proud standards and gallantry,
      Second verse, brave hearts.
      Third verse a longing for home.

      It’s very much a military ballad which starts with a call to arms and raises the army and then if that last verse is a foreign expedition of a longing to be home.

      At least Flower of Scotland doesn’t talk of armed uprising. Scotland the Brave might be mistaken for a rallying call to arms and perhaps for the union. Except that it’s more the highlands and islands so you don’t know. Perhaps the fighting for Queen and “Country” subtext is what Blair finds so attractive.

    25. Capella says:

      Pre-independence, I think The Proclaimers’ “Cap in Hand” is an appropriate national anthem. Jaunty tune and the lyrics are spot on:

      I could tell the meaning of a word like serene
      I got some ‘O’ Grades when I was sixteen
      I can tell the difference between margarine and butter
      I can say “Saskatchewan” without starting to stutter

      But I can’t understand why we let someone else rule our land
      We’re Cap in Hand

    26. velofello says:

      Up the tempo; then adopt a bodhran beat; or alternatively add a little swing, to Scots Wha Hae and you have fine rousing tune.

    27. Weechid says:

      Alasdair Angus Macdonald says:
      2 December, 2019 at 2:24 pm

      If there were a BRITISH national anthem, then, by the criteria you have indicated in your piece, “Rule Britannia” would fit the bill. However, with its prominent place at the “Last Night of the Proms”, it has become a jingoistic triumphalist piece linked to ‘Jerusalem’ and “walk[ing] upon ENGLAND’S pastures green.

      Indeed, at “Proms in the Park” at Glasgow Green, it does not even feature.

      Although many people of working class background, such as I have enjoyed promenade concerts other than the Last Night, the Last Night has become a jamboree of ENGLISHNESS/BRITISHNESS, mainly by a fairly affluent class.”
      The words were written by Scot James Thomson- prseumably a Proud Scot but…

    28. dadsarmy says:

      Needs a new anthem and just about all the possibilites are too wistful “I wanna go home”. Well, most renditions of the anthem will be AT HOME, not on some dusty forgotten battlefield dying in agony and lots of gore and blood for some rich bastard, leaving loved ones, kids and unborn and even unconceived kids behind.

      “We make all our own decisions
      We’re good at everything we put our hands to
      You’ve come to win against us
      You’ve got no fecking chance!”

      tralalalala la la la la

    29. Dr Jim says:

      But, but isn’t having a National Anthem…..Nationalist

      Don’t the very words National Anthem signify the adoption of solemnity or rousing patriotism as an expression of National Identity

      So Scotland can only have a National identity when we’re *allowed* to, the rest of the time we have to have another identity that we’re told to have by a government in England who have apparently no identity whatsoever so they’ve had to invent one for us to comply with

      A country that has no culture invents a culture so good that over 60 countries binned them and ran away
      That’s some *most successful Union in historying there*

    30. Republicofscotland says:

      McDougall, acknowledges that Scotland is a country, yet he and his ilk have actively worked against Scottish interests, at the behest of a foreign country.

    31. Breeks says:

      It’s not a contender for a National anthem, but I like the words of a Borders song… To me it was always sad and beautiful, the epitome of Scotland, a lament about the auld mother country losing too many hopes to foreign places…

      “Talk not to me O’ brighter lands, beyond the stormy sea.
      Their streams may run with golden sands, but what are they tae me?
      I care na for the gems they boast, though true may be the tale.
      Gie me the heather floor that blooms in Bonnie Teviotdale…”

      Whether I like the tune or not varies according to number of beers the singer has enjoyed.

    32. dadsarmy says:

      “We’ll keep a welcome on the Bens
      and whisky in the glens
      but if you dare attack our huts
      we’ll kick you in the … all together now:

      We’ll keep a welcome on the Bheinns
      and whisky in the glens
      but if you dare attack our huts

    33. Pete Barton says:

      Caledonia, for me.

      I really love my land..


    34. kapelmeister says:

      The Stones’ Gimme Shelter would be quite an appropriate anthem for England nowadays.

    35. Gary45% says:

      National Anthem?
      “We Hate Jimmy Hill” quite easy to learn.
      “Only Joking”

      On a serious note, there was a song I heard in the last couple of years, might have been by Frightened Rabbit, or maybe The Twilight Sad, not sure? but the tune and the words were breath taking, and at the time I thought now there’s a National Anthem.
      As mentioned already, “Cap in Hand” is a belter.

    36. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Frankly, I will begin to think about a national anthem after we have achieved a proper country to play it for.

    37. Geoff Bush says:

      No mention yet of The Freedom Come All Ye – encapsulates pretty much all of the values of the independence movement and the vision of the new country we aspire to. Gets my vote

    38. John MacKinnon says:

      “Freedom, Come All Ye” – gets my vote too.

    39. Clapper57 says:

      Perhaps Blair would prefer Edwin Starr’s ‘War’ as NA.

      “War, huh, yeah
      What is it good for
      Absolutely nothing
      War, huh, yeah
      What is it good for
      Absolutely nothing
      Say it again, why’all
      War, huh, good god
      What is it good for
      Absolutely nothing, listen to me”

      Do you think that would be better for Blair ?

      Also re his point about both countries NOT being at war….well we are not ‘physically’ at war but it does sometimes feel that there is a fair amount of psychological warfare being targeted towards ONE of the countries Blair is referring to ( FOS one)…and it is mainly coming from the other country he is also referring to (GSTQ one)……aided very much by peeps like Blair obvs.

      As to his suggestion of our NA being replaced with Scotland the Brave…top trolling Blair…because for Scotland to vote ‘No’ in 2014 it was seen as the opposite of BRAVE by many international observers…and indeed Twitter Trolls darn sarf…so if we ‘change’ NA to his suggestion it will be when we ARE brave enough, by a majority, to say Yes to Independence then Yes we can sing about how brave our country is.

      “Dripping with bitterness” should be the new slogan for Better Together as it seems so apt when one considers the Unionists collective behaviour towards Scotland and indeed their behaviour in general…see Twitter uber Unionist Trolls…and anti Scotland derogatory comments from some UKOK politicians….now there is a lesson in how some can be exposed as ” Dripping in Bitterness”…..including Blair.

      ps. Blair KNOWS GSTQ is UKOK NA….but it gave him yet another opportunity to diss Scotland…too wee, too poor, too stupid and now sheeite NA dripping with bitterness….how low will he go…infinity and beyond ?…sure certain factions in Scotland and NI will not ‘surrender’ GSTQ Nat anthem Blair…as they are very much “dripping in bitterness” and would be more so if you dare to suggest changing THEIR NA…Fly the Flag Blair and stay with the program of all things, incl NA, being ‘A’ OK in UKOK.

      OR………………..we, Scots, could sing THIS…

      UK, huh, yeah
      What is it good for
      Absolutely nothing
      UK, huh, yeah
      What is it good for
      Absolutely nothing
      Say it again, why’all
      UK, huh, good God
      What is it good for
      Absolutely Nothing, listen to me

      Maybe that should be Scotland’s new NA until we get Independence..Lol

    40. ID says:

      Auld Lang Syne. Instantly recognisable, famous the world over, everybody knows the lyrics and it has a simple theme of letting bygones be bygones, having a drink and getting on with the new year. How no?

    41. Sandy says:

      National anthem; The Scottish breakaway!!!

    42. Muscleguy says:

      Yup, the NZ national anthem God Defend NZ causes the same sort of wags who shout ‘gainst who’ and ‘basterds’ shout ’cause no other bugger will’ to the title refrain. A realpolitik reaction to the reaction of our supposed allies to the French Act of War in Auckland harbour in 1984. The UK for eg sided with France in threatening trade retaliation if we didn’t release the two French spies we caught (because as good civil servants they took their camper van back for the deposit, the police were waiting).

    43. naina tal says:

      Love “Freedom come all ye” Nae use as a National Anthem though because o’ the language. Too many fowk hivnae a clue whit the hell it’s aboot. A wheen o us hae a guid grasp o auld Scots but no awbody has. Tae be honest ah’m seek o the Argy bargy o whit the anthem should be. Owner Mony fowk are sae certain that their choice is the only possible ane.

      Scots will aye manage tae get something tae argy aboot! Come oan!
      Let us get oot o this yookay afore we fa oot aboot a sang.

    44. Liz g says:

      My choice for Our National Anthem…
      Auld Lang Syne…

      It’s as old as GSTQ.
      It’s writer is a world famous Scot
      There’s nae Battles or Bloody Tombs or anything else Military.
      The English aren’t mentioned.
      It’s about old friend’s and sharing.

      And the best bit…. The thing that matters…
      The whole world knows it.
      Most people can only recognise,name and sing a handful of National Anthems.
      The whole world knows this song,knows it to be Scottish and can not only sing a line or two but can do the actions too.
      That kind of international brand recognition is priceless.

      It’s like we gave it to the world too sing and to keep,but now we’re taking it hame !!!

    45. John says:

      Got to be Highland Cathedral.

    46. Grouser says:

      La Marche des soldats de Robert Bruce will get you the most stirring rendition of Scots Wha Hae that you will ever hear. Even without words it is terrific. Find it on utube.

    47. cirsium says:

      @KOF, 3.49
      “Scots Wha Hae, Marche des soldats de Robert Bruce, or Hey Tutti Tatie would be fine with me! ”


    48. Welsh Sion says:

      ‘Course, *I* would say, *our* national anthem – boomed at full voice prior to defearting the English at rugby union is the best National Anthem. (Even the plastic Taffs know the words or they can la-la it – unlike John Redwood).

      However, I’ll give you an updated version of one of yours:

      15. (of 21.)

      Scots Wha Hae – Reprise (bis)

      Scots, wha hae wi’ Salmond bled,
      Scots, wham Sturgeon has aften led,
      Welcome tae yer gory bed
      Or tae destiny.

      Now’s the day, an’ now’s the hour:
      Seize oor chance a’ last fir power.
      See the fearties start tae cower.
      Scotland will be free!

      Wha will be as cruel as Tojo?
      Wha will bow tae Lunnon’s BoJo?
      Wha sae base as lose his mojo?
      Let him turn an’ flee.

      Wha fir Scotland’s Pride an’ Aw’
      Freedom’s sword will strongly draw?
      Bondsman stand or Freeman fa’:
      Let him follow me.

      By th’ oppressive woes and pains,
      Of oor sons in servile chains,
      We will drain oor dearest veins
      But we shall be free!

      Lay Westminster oh so low.
      Traitors fall – like every foe.
      Liberty’s oors wi’ every blow!
      Let us vote fir SNP!

      [With acknowledgements]

      PS England doesn’t have a National Anthem. GSTQ is a *Royal* Anthem – nothing more. (The same music as Liechrenstein’s Anthem, incidentally and an early version of “God Save America”.)

    49. twathater says:

      Just came from WOS twatter page and by the looks of it many many female ( supposed ) SNP voters are incensed at Nicola’s radio 5 interview re her responses to the GRA proposals . She was being questioned by a young male from London , it is EXTREMELY worrying that so many SNP supporters are now saying they will either spoil their vote or vote for another party .

      Can this clusterfuck be another example of us Scots snatching defeat from the jaws of victory , it is totally unbelievable that these woke entryist activists are shredding our dreams of independence , these arseholes MUST be expelled from the party if we have a chance to win this election

      Is this the chance the beeb and the establishment have been waiting and planning for . The SNP being torn to shreds from the inside due to a MINORITY of vociferous self serving wokenats

    50. jfngw says:

      I noticed a SNP representative now telling us they are the establishment and you can protest as much as you like, it will be ignored. They seem to have attracted too many that would once have been Labour members in Scotland into their mist, they are transforming into Labour with the feeling they have the right to rule. Not sure what the point of independence will be if they are now just going to mirror Westminster and become the new establishment.

      I am now having to hold my nose as I vote for them.

      If they don’t achieve a referendum in 2020 then they have effectively failed Scotland and a clear out at the top will be required.

      A bit negative but some of the crap coming from fairly senior SNP people is starting to scunner me.

    51. Dorothy Devine says:

      Those who say they won’t vote SNP over the trans debate are on a hiding to nowhere – all the other parties are going to comply with the ‘equality’.

      Folk should point all those getting annoyed about it in the direction of the Kent Ladies Champion Cricketer of the Year – all 6 feet 2 of her, used to play in the men’s team and didn’t do so well but jings , call me madam and glory is hers.

    52. S.Perspective says:

      I detest God Save the Queen, S. the Brave is a clapped-out trope, and Flower of Scotland is as sad as it sounds. A country that defined itself only by telling its neighbour to think again, doesn‘t deserve independence. We need a new anthem. Simple as that.
      Meanwhile, England should just take Jerusalem. Sounds great and it‘s certainly more inspirational than the Tory cabal currently ruling the roost.

    53. Sinky says:

      0/T STV putting the knife into Ian Blackford without challenging thr backgrounds of other candudates in their promtion of tactical voting in Skye Constituency

    54. dadsarmy says:

      Ah, I think I got it now.

      “Entity save our gracious Pronoun,
      Long live our noble Pronoun,
      Entity save the Pronoun;
      Send her/him/it/other victorious,
      Happy and glorious,
      Long to pee upon us,
      Entity save the Pronoun.”

    55. @Muscleguy,

      was surprised and disappointed when New Zealand voted to keep the butchers apron on their national flag,

      though the alternatives were pretty mediocre,

      a silver or white saltire with black background would have been my preference.

    56. Lorenzo the Magnificent says:

      Monarchies tend to have Royal Anthems rather than National Anthems. As Billy Connolly says, I think the Queen should be saved and God is the very fellow to do it

    57. Terence callachan says:

      AULD LANG SYNE has to be the Scottish national anthem surely

      Written by a Scot

      OK it’s used all over the world as a new year welcome but why should that stop us using it as our national anthem
      It’s our song , a great tune , great words, everyone knows it .

    58. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Dorothy Devine @ 18:26

      Those who say they won’t vote SNP over the trans debate are on a hiding to nowhere – all the other parties are going to comply with the ‘equality’.

      This needs to be repeated again and again.

      But the SNP would be wise to quietly park the issue for now, instead of indulging in truly-divisive displacement activity. It’s something that – just like every other damn thing – should be tackled by the proper democratic processes of an independent Scotland.

      Then we can vote on these issues according to merit without the independence issue always getting in the way.

    59. North chiel says:

      Tend to agree with Lizg @ 0555 pm Auld Lang Sang would be a strong contender . I particularly like an instrumental version by Ji-Hae Park played on violin at a slower more classical tempo ( on u tube )

    60. Graeme says:

      If Scotland can have it’s own national anthem shouldn’t Lincolnshire have one as well

    61. Lorenzo the Magnificent says:

      More Anthem stuff.
      The whole area is fraught with problems.
      Lots of countries have two or three different ones. (the USA, Sweden)
      Some have music but can’t use the words (Spain)
      Others have half each (Czech and Slovak Republics)

      Music fashion change so much that most anthems sound terrible, even cracking tunes like the French and Russian ones sound strange today. As for the words, most of them are either bizarrely flowery or militaristic bloodfests.

      I vote to change them all to Highway To Hell

    62. Dr Jim says:

      Vote for a Unionist party and give lobby fodder to English political parties whose leaders put England first and Scotland goes back to the position of having no vote on anything

      Vote SNP and you get the choice of a voice and a vote in and for your own country

      Unionists squeal about being anti Independence which is their choice but the difference is they won’t give you a choice or a vote to say NO or YES, you’ll just be told what your future will be, you won’t be asked and once again England will decide who and what you get

      Any general election that involves the UK Unionist parties cannot ever be about policies in Scotland because if they win Scotland loses, it’s that simple, no choice, over and done, dead parrot

      Our Scottish parliament cannot and will not be able to continue to mitigate everything the Westminster parliament decides to do when it decides to do it, if the English parties win they will squeeze Scotland dry till the pips squeek so that the people will blame the SNP for bad governance and vote against them, then they’ll reverse every good thing the SNP has done and tell you that’s what you wanted all along, and who’ll stand up for Scotland then

      Right now in Ian Blackfords seat the Unionist parties have admitted they prefer anybody to the SNP winning that seat because they want to claim that scalp,they have absolutely nothing to say about their constituents because they have zero interest in them

      Tonight on STV Scotland tonight 10:40pm exposes the Unionist parties *pact* plus an interview with Liberal Democrat Willie Rennie on which I have no doubt will be questioned over this by STVs Colin McKay

    63. dadsarmy says:

      “When I was bound apprentice in famous Lincolnshire,
      I serv’d my master truly, for nearly seven odd year,
      Till I took up to poaching, as you shall quickly hear.
      Oh, ’tis my delight on a shining night, in the season of the year.

      As me and my companions were setting up a snare,
      The gamekeeper was watching us – for him we did not care,
      For we can wrestle and fight, my boys, and jump o’er anywhere.
      Oh, ’tis my delight on a shining night, in the season of the year.


    64. ScottieDog says:

      So much easier to vote for Neale Hanvey now he’s no longer SNP.

    65. wullie says:

      National Anthem
      Chris Rea. The Road to Hell. Sums up Scotland for me.

    66. wullie says:

      National Anthem

      OR OR
      Chris Rea
      much better

    67. Balaaargh says:

      Dorothy & RJS,

      Next week, my current MP is guaranteed my vote because I know that he believes in Indy and that WM needs constant reminding that we will not go away.

      I get your point about the other parties. But I’m not voting for and nor am I a member of those other parties. And if the party whom I have been a member of for nearly three decades – including working with Sturgeon & Somerville in THEIR YSN days – continues to allow occupational politicians and the woke to carry on as they have been then they are in fact, no different from the other parties and none will be deserving of my vote in 2021.

    68. Golfnut says:

      Liz g has nailed it, heard this sung in so many different languages. We gave them Hogmany, only right they sing our National Anthem. Mind you England might drop it.

    69. starlaw says:

      National Anthem

      The Proclaimers . . Scotlands Story.

    70. Camz says:


      Imagine the rest of the world hearing that at sporting events. #NoHate

    71. twathater says:

      @ Dorothy Devine 6.26pm I don’t disagree with you re all the other parties supporting this issue , the problem is all the other parties are not in power , the SNP are and they are the ones pushing this , as RJS wrote up thread the SNP should publicly state that the GRA will not be considered until independence .
      The problem is that Nicola is insisting that they will drive forward the legislation which many feel is a betrayal to the promise of the consultation , what is the point to a consultation if you have already decided the outcome

      Many people have expressed their impatience at STU addressing this issue so much and that he should concentrate on other things , and that it is a false flag and a diversion , but if anyone supports independence for Scotland we should ALL be aware how divisive and important this is to our cause and is now being pushed by our enemies , make no mistake female SNP voters and male family members feel ostrasised and ignored by their duplicity

    72. Giving Goose says:

      An anthem is about your identity.
      Blair M prefers the identity that his masters would be more at ease with him singing.
      It’s subservient.
      He’s a man on his knees.

    73. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Gary45% says:
      2 December, 2019 at 4:52 pm

      National Anthem?
      “We Hate Jimmy Hill” quite easy to learn.
      “Only Joking”

      You are quite right, Jimmy Hill has long passed his hate-by date.

      The despicable David Mundell however – would be a plausible substitute.

      To avoid causing offence to professional, amateur and faux offence-takers. It may be necessary to add a new line or two to make it clear that the second line of the anthem is more of a begrudged tribute to his moral courage than an additional reason for disliking him.

    74. wull says:

      Screaming Lord Sutch hated monopolies (the UK was and is full of them) and he used to attack the Monopolies Commission with the brilliant complaint: Why – oh Why – is there ONLY ONE Monopolies Ccommission?

      In the dame vein: Why does there have to be ONLY ONE National Anthem?

      We have such a big choice of wonderful tunes (sometimes with wonderful lyrics as well) to choose from, why should we limit ourselves to only one? If ‘national anthems’ are more about expressing who we are, or would like to be – and less, or not at all about defining ourselves against other people – then why shouldn’t we show the world a bit more of what we’ve got?

      Going by some of the suggestions others have made, I reckon we could and maybe should have about 5 of them, without necessarily closing the door to others. Variety is the spice of life, and we are in no way a monochrome nation.

      Even those who may have some more or less justifiable hesitations about tartan, you have to admit that it is anything but monochrome. The same goes for the Scottish landscape, and seascape. Why can’t we be and become the ‘multi-anthemed’ nation?

      And by the way, since someone mentioned it, national anthems do NOT need to have words.

      I remember watching the anthems being played at the beginning of a televised World Cup Final featuring Spain. The camera panned on to the Spanish players, and the English commentator began to mock them because their lips weren’t moving. ‘Look at these guys!’ he shouted down the microphone, his voice almost visible with glee: ‘What a stupid bunch: they don’t even know the words of their own national anthem!’

      Sitting next to me was a friend who had spent many years in Spain, knew the language perfectly and loved the place. He just burst out laughing. ‘What a stupid idiot that commentator is. Does he not know that THERE ARE NO WORDS to the Spanish national anthem. It’s just a tune – and a very good one, too!’

      When you think of it, a tune without words can be just as stirring and expressive as a song with lyrics. In fact, it might be far more likely to unite everyone behind it than actual verses ever would.

      Everyone can identify with a good tune, a decent piece of music … There’s a place for that too. We don’t always have to sing the words. When the French military band plays Scots Wha Hae (they call it by another name, but that’s what it is) there are no words. But, boy – it sure is moving.

    75. wull says:

      Correction to previous post, which should read ‘in the same vein – NOT ‘in the dame vein’!

    76. mumsyhugs says:

      Brian @ 2.30

      Does anybody else remember Billy Connolly dancing and prancing across the stage singing The Archers? –

      Die di die di die di die
      Die di die di die dum
      Die di die di die di die
      Die di diddly dum?

      Come on folks – join in. You know you want to!!! 🙂

    77. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      wull @ 20:03,

      No need for the correction, wull. It is the panto season after all! =laugh=

      (And bless for the reminder of that Monopolies Commission jest!)

    78. William j Brown says:

      The National anthem is propaganda, “God Save the Queen” is Brain washing. We are the only country in the world that sings about our dear leader. Even North Korea sing about North Korea and they have got a dear leader. This was the first tune I learned as a child in my primary school. I was much older when I understood that I was being programmed. Learn to Sing “Goodbyeee”.,As we rebuild Hadrian’s wall and have a really wonderful country free of the rape and greed of the English Tories… GoodByeee

    79. wull says:

      Many thanks Robert. You are right.

      We even have Panto Politicians now – except they’re not funny. Just utterly depressing, and totally dangerous.

      Actually more like Horror Movie stars, except they’re for real. Or characters who have escaped from one of these Fairy Tales of the Brothers Grimm. The night has descended, and the witchery-woo stuff is in full swing …

      You know who I mean.

      Underneath the false make-up, the faux buffoonery, and fake charm … there he is, unwrapped: the wolf beneath the sheep’s clothing, ready to pounce and maraud …

      Watch out, Little Red Riding Hood …

      The fangs are about to be bared …

      ‘All the better to eat you with!’

      But he won’t manage to chew his way through us. If he tries, he’ll risk getting his fangs knocked out, and left in a ditch.

      Anyway, I’m closing down for the night. Meanwhile, England seems to be walking merrily into its own nightmare. We have to care … but they mustn’t be allowed to drag us down there with them. I remain optimistic that the vote will go our way. More important, even if that didn’t happen and whatever the immediate outcome, nothing will shake my confidence that we are well and truly on our way.

      Independence is certainly coming – when exactly, precisely how, by which means, none of that do I know (nor, despite all the speculations and possible scenarios, I suppose, does anyone else) – but come it will.

      And soon. Very soon.

    80. mike cassidy says:

      Here’s the National covering Sturgeon’s suggestion that SNP activists campaign in neighbouring constituencies rather than Kirkcaldy And Cowdenbeath.

      Hard to say whether this is clever politics

      I have to say this in public – just ignore me

      Or whether they are really writing off the seat.

    81. boris says:

      But the “Freedom of Information Act” is a joke. Politicians are still answerable only to parliament and information is rarely released.

      Successive governments have replaced censorship with spin, an insidious development enhanced with the appointment of many hundreds of “Special Advisors” many just out of university with no political experience.

      These political appointments (many the sons and daughters of party politicians) are fully financed by the State.

      Compounding the abuse of the electorate they are then shortlisted as candidates in safe seats guaranteeing their political future at Westminster.

      Nothing is safe in our Westminster politician’s hands and Scots would be better off gaining independence and putting in place a written “Bill of Rights”.

    82. MorvenM says:

      Absolutely beelin’. As if the interview with the wee wokebro on women’s and trans rights wasn’t bad enough, apparently Nicola is now saying SNP members should not campaign for Neale Hanvey in Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath. What does that mean? Leave it to Lesley Laird?

      If I was younger and had my health, I’d be across there to campaign for him myself. As it is, all I can do is bung in a few quid to his election campaign. Here’s the link:

      I was on the verge of quitting the party when Rhiannon Spear was voted in as women’s officer. The only thing that stopped me was, if all the gender-critical members leave, there will be no-one left to vote for a leader with sane policies when Nicola’s rule comes to an end. I hope that happens sooner rather than later. Absolutely gutted – I used to admire her so much.

      P.S. Another vote for Marche des Soldats de Robert Bruce. There are various versions of it on YouTube – stirring stuff.

    83. Seepy says:

      National anthem?

      “Hermless” by Michael Marra.

      What will we talk about next?

    84. Golfnut says:

      @ MorvenM.

      Actually a smart move by Nicola.

    85. robertknight says:

      Blair McDoo-bugger-all best just concern himself with things dripping with lard and leave Scotland’s future to those who actually give a shit about the place and the people in it.

    86. Robert Louis says:

      As regards National anthem, happy with flower of Scotland, but if it had to change, either Auld Lang Syne (a song which most of the world knows, and written by Burns), or Scots wha hae.

    87. Pete Barton says:

      ‘Let me tell you that I love you,
      That I think about you all the time

      Caledonia you’re calling me

      And now I’m going home..’

    88. shagpile says:

      “MajorBloodnok says:
      2 December, 2019 at 2:54 pm
      I like Scotland the Brave, the tune in particular. It’s jaunty and uplifting.

      But let’s get the words updated, for example by the notable lyricist Irvine Welsh.”


      I personally reject this shortbread/heather romp critique of this song. A genuine criticism might be that it is sexist. I agree. Update the lyrics, nothing wrong in an expression of missing home.

      Civic nationalist Scots ought to be brave, and lead. Proud of endeavour… not an accident of birth.

      Beautiful as FOS (lyrically) is, it’s a dirge; just like GSTQ (musically, and awful lyrically).

      Germany (lyrics changed), USA, France and even Russia have a tune that inspires! Personally, keep the melody, but update the lyrics 😉

    89. Pete Barton says:

      Flower of Scotland, played a la Corries had a haunting slow rhythm

      I just don’t think 50k plus souls singing and pipes droning do the song any justice.

      It wisny made for the pipes.

      If we’re to sing it, it needs to have that heart that it was originally sang from otherwise,it’s a lament for Culloden/Flodden take yer pic?

    90. HandandShrimp says:

      Did McDougall not leave politics to set up a tuba band?

      I may have him mixed up with someone else 🙂

    91. dadsarmy says:

      Seems to me the first thing is to decide what on earth an anthem is for in the first place. Is it for those who are 5,000 miles from home so they can sob in their ale when they hear it “Oh, it’s so lovely at home, wish I was there with the green green grass of homw sweet home in the hills I miss so much I’m really sad I think I’ll just go and end it all”?

      And just how appropriate is it for being in Edinburgh or Glasgow or Stornoway and singing “I’m going home”? You are fecking home.

      And what’s the point of past grieveances, once they’re gone, they’re gone, why go on about them? Move on, get on with it, get a grip, get a life!

      Or is it so we hear it and say “yeah, let’s go for it, we can do this (whatever it is)”. I’d say that one.

      Something along the lines but more appropriate:

      “When I wake up in the morning light
      I pull on my jeans and I feel all right.”

      or even a better one of this:

      “Bring me Sunshine, in your smile,
      Bring me Laughter, all the while,
      In this world where we live, there should be more happiness,
      So much joy you can give, to each brand new bright tomorrow,”

      Something that puts a smile on the face, not tears in the eyes so you trip over your feet and fall down stone dead, or crash the car and kill 15 pedestrians leaving widow(er) and orphaned kids. Or feel as though you just did.

      Life’s too short as it. Live it!

    92. Blair is just another Uncle Jock used by the establishment then flushed out like a turd,

      Malcolm X called them House Slaves.

    93. Dorothy Devine says:

      My point was that here or yonder ,Holyrood or Westminster , the gender debate is being supported by every party – no idea why as much of it appears to be bullying idiocy.

      I take the point that the SNP have managed to get themselves utterly embroiled and should ,indeed drop this hot potato.

    94. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      National tunes…

      Why has this been forgotten?

      The Dawning Of The Day…

    95. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      And for those of you who haven’t seen this adaptation of “Hey Tuttie Tatie/Scots Wha Hae”… The Auld Alliance rules…

    96. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      SHAZBOT! Watching that last video STILL causes my eyes to over-irrigate.

    97. AndyP says:

      A Mans a man for a’ that

      NA – thats all

    98. cynicalHighlander says:

      @Dorothy Devine

      The SNP leadership is dictatorship over the gender bender GRA as that comes before Indy. I am waiting for my SNP candidate to respond over this issue and dignity in dying but the silence is deafening, so it is looking more and more likely that a spoilt vote is my only option.

    99. chicmac says:

      My favourite suggestion used to be ‘Freedom Come All Ye’ with slightly tweaked lyrics but for the past couple of years it has been Jo Hamilton’s ‘Think of Me’, a shortened version with some changed lyrics, to convert from a ‘eulogy request’ into a celebration of Scotland.

    100. dadsarmy says:

      GRA has nothing really to do with the SNP MPs, as it’s a Holyrood issue for the MSPs. So Sturgeon & Co can do it if 59 SNP MPs get elected – or zero.l it makes no difference to Holyrood.

      Please vote SNP for this one last election to maximise the chances of Indy Ref 2 in 2020, and – give the SNP NO excuse – for not having it.

      If the SNP don’t have Indy Ref 2 in 2020 for no good reason, there will be a lot of people NOT voting SNP for Holyrood in 2021 as they will have betrayed their promise for Indy Ref 2.

      Including me.

    101. dadsarmy says:

      Hold your nose, boak in a bucket, and put an X against the SNP candidate.

    102. Graeme McAllan says:

      As an old Punk, I’ve always loved the Sex Pistols version, “we mean it, man”;)

    103. Iain 2 says:

      Spoiled vote,why not just vote for boris.
      The 77th is busy tonight.

    104. Willie says:

      Singing about God saving the mother of a paedophile doesn’t quite cut the mustard unless of course you are a Brit.

    105. Robert Louis says:

      If folk cannot see how they are now being quite obviously played over this gender bullish*t, then they need to wake up.

      The gender thing is being used online to damage the SNP and indyref2 in 2020.

      I wish some very influential people would wake up and step back for just one second and realise what is being done. I don’t agree with the gender p*sh, but I am smart enough to see just EXACTLY how this is being used to damage the indy vote in this election.

      And here’s the point. As Dad’s army above points out, it is a matter for Holyrood, so not voting SNP at the general election will make no freaking difference at all to that. However, if you don’t vote SNP and wake up on 13th December to the BBC cooing about how the SNP have been obliterated, you might regret what you did.

      Right now I want folk to vote SNP to get independence, period. Do not listen to these Britnat stooges, who are here, telling folk not to vote because of gender law p*sh. That is a different fight for a different day, and a different place (Holyrood).

      Wake up folks to how you are being played. I do get it. I’m angry as =hell about the gender sh*te, but I am NOT going to be played by the dark forces of unionism. I wish others, especially those who have great influence, would stop banging on about it, for just a few days at least. We get it, you don’t like it. I get it, I don’t like it, FFS.

      It is a different fight for a different day, and if you fall for this cr*p, then you are being played. Pure and simple.

      We need a strong SNP vote. It has got sweet f all to do with the gender nonsense at Holyrood. Wake up folks. You are being played.

    106. JPJ2 says:

      Robert Louis
      I totally agree with your comment.
      Vote SNP or support unionism-it is that simple

    107. Breeks says:

      WTF man? Sort yourselves out at the National. Are you trying to outdo the Scotsman with nuisance pop-ups and scrolling which jumps about the ads making it impossible to read? If I have to load a web page and go for a cuppa for 5 minutes before it’s stable enough to read, my short attention span is gonna kick in, and it’s not gonna happen.

    108. winifred mccartney says:

      I feel just as strongly about the self ID nonsense as everyone else but this is the latest tactic in the divide and conquer device used by WM against us – it shows they have nothing left in their armoury so they are just playing dirty as they always do – do not fall for it – vote snp – it is the only way to freedom.

    109. Capella says:

      @ Robert Louis – I agree. Vote SNP in 58 constituencies and Vote Neale Hanvey in Kirkcaldy. I totally oppose Self ID. So let’s get independence so we can safeguard our citizens and protect science for our children’s future.

    110. potter says:

      @ Robert Louis
      All very depressing, folk saying they are not going to vote SNP, not sure how that will get us Independence. Scotland, a nation unique in shooting itself in the foot.

    111. Phydaux says:

      As an arch-Brit, Blair McDougall is dripping with bitterness. Will he get off his knees when it’s time to choose?

      Check out the Corries’s original version of Flower of Scotland from 1968, which bears little resemblance from the one belted out at rugby internationals. This is how it should be played and sung and no bagpipes.The rhythm of the bodhran and the evocative sounds of the mandolin gives me goosebumps whenever I hear it. The Carries were one of the best Scottish folk bands ever. Heed their words, Scotland, get off your knees and be a Nation again.

      The Celtic nations have all the best tunes.And they are all about beating the English. Our ancestors would have chosen Independence.

    112. Dorothy Devine says:

      There are a great number of different things I want a Scottish Government to do or not to do , many individual ideas abound .

      However , unless we become that independent country there is hee haw we can do.

      As someone keeps saying , ‘EYES ON THE PRIZE” – and that ‘prize ‘ is to restore the independence of Scotland and we can take it from there.

    113. ScotsRenewables says:

      Moving to Scotland by Mitch Benn

    114. manandboy says:

      If you can lie continuously about virtually everything, why would anyone believe the Tories are being truthful about really big stuff. Like about Scotland.

      Yet huge numbers of no voters, including among the professional classes, believe completely in Tory lies about Scotland.

      In this context, Education, without an authentic Scottish history of English Rule, is hugely overrated. But then the curriculum will be controlled by the BritNat community. No surprise that so many grow up brainwashed into a British state of mind.

    115. Ottomanboi says:

      BBC Today prog in Edinburgh this morning. Review of newsmedia cited London press only.
      The temple of cultural conceit that is unionism must be brought down.
      Scotland is a land of ‘good tunes’, it can do so much better than the Flour o Scotland dirge.
      The music to Auld Lang Syne has a rousing tempo and is weil kent.
      Hamish MacCunn’s Land of mountain and the flood has some potential.
      All it needs is imagination, invention and blue sky musical thinking.

    116. Old Pete says:

      Don’t be an anti-Scot, you have no other option if you support Scottish Independence you must vote SNP.

    117. galamcennalath says:

      Free Come All Ye would be my choice.

      Words are appropriate. Tune sounds Scottish. Language is Scots. It sounds like a National Anthem to me.

      This sends a tingling down my spine …..

    118. Colin Alexander says:

      We are in the middle of a General Election campaign.

      Now is the time to back the SNP.

      Vote SNP for the SNP’s pro-independence, pro-Scotland General Election manifesto.

    119. Capella says:

      It is extraordinary that an otherwise intelligent and well informed FM should defend junk biology. But we have to accept that this is the case and move on. Independence first, then vote for politicians who will unequivocally protect our rights.

      There is an excellent short story about the three ages of feminism on R4, “Waves” by Hannah McGill. It’s only 15 minutes but well worth sitting down with a cup of coffee and listening. Not often that the BBC has something so relevant, and only 26 days left.

    120. stuart mctavish says:

      “…No option than to support SNP”

      If yes Scotland sent 59 Conservative MPs to Westminster it would call England’s bluff on leaving the EU, and (possibly) the SNP one on not being dragged out against Scotland’s will – although the reasonably high risk of internecine civil war associated with such a cunning plan makes it better to agree in advance that Auld Lang Syne MUST be the national anthem.

    121. Ghillie says:

      Stuart, thank you for this article and light relief from the ghastliness of the news and the toxicity of British politics.

      How lovely to contemplate our future National Anthemn =)

      I love the song ‘Come by the Hills’. As my wee boys and I first heard it sung by Rabscallion in the Ben Loyal Hotel in Tongue many years ago =)

      But what all our thoughts on great songs to celebrate Independent Scotland shows is that there are so so many to choose from! A happy discussion and debate to be had 🙂

      Maybe we could just go mad and keep folk standing and singing along to the full repertoire of ALL our favourite songs as no one song can possibly do this lovely Nation justice 🙂

      It should only take an hour or two.

      We could maybe even use different songs for different occasions, whatever suits best in that moment.

      This will be our new and hard won Independence so I don’t think we should have to follow any strict rules, just have fun with the wonderful feeling of freedom and give Scotland time to try out all sorts before we settle on a final single tune and lyrics.

      What a grand feeling this is 🙂

    122. Famous15 says:

      The FM is being very careful in what she says. She acknowledges how problematic the subject is and no decisions have been taken. I wish to emphasise that empathy is required to ease the burden of anyone with “issues” in a difficult world but to find,as the good guy,you must take a certain view or else , provokes deep resentment. I will now feed my view more firmly at branch level. For example I will never agree,for my grand daughters sake,to the ending of womens’ sport. It will end if we are not careful!

      It is a world wide,all party problem.

      I WILL vote SNP.

    123. Socrates MacSporran says:


      I used to love browsing the Rev’s twitter feed – I would often find diamonds among the dross.

      Not any more, with all this trans rubbish in it just now. Can I repeat something I have written on here before, to a Baby Boomer like me it is simple:

      cock and balls – MALE

      vagina – FEMALE

      If you are one and want to be the other – arrange for the operation, otherwise – you are in my book, extremely-dodgy.

      I would hate to think this terf nonsense would set back the noble cause of Scottish Independence.

    124. raineach says:

      odd that ‘A man’s a man’ slipped his attention

    125. sassenach says:

      Socrates MacSporran @9-42

      Asolutely the way I feel, as well. I no longer even look at the Rev’s twitter, as I’m sick of all the gender stuff – I’m only interested in Indy, and destroying the SNP on this issue is crazy.

      It’s football all over again, Scotland snatches defeat from the jaws of victory. Take my word, we’re not likely to get another chance at Indy, any time soon, if ever, once Boris gets control.

      Bye bye, Holyrood and all we’ve been building, our box is waiting for us FFS!!

    126. Breeks says:

      Socrates MacSporran says:
      3 December, 2019 at 9:42 am

      I used to love browsing the Rev’s twitter feed – I would often find diamonds among the dross.

      Not any more….

      In fairness to Rev Stu, the whole YES campaign is stale and a bit malnourished after years of political bread and water. Precisely what stimulus has there been to propagate fresh new pastures?

      But hey ho. There’s an election on, so shut your gob Breeks and vote SNP.

    127. Grouser says:

      We need to be single-minded about Independence. If you have other over-riding priorities either park your thoughts until after independence has been achieved or get out of the SNP. Sabotage from within the party is not on.

    128. HandandShrimp says:

      If you want to build the foundations for a better Scotland and a bulwark against a very Tory Xmas vote SNP on your ballot paper.

      It really is that simple. Everything else is just white noise.

    129. Gary45% says:

      You want Independence you vote SNP its that simple.
      Spoil your vote, don’t come crying.

    130. Bill Hume. says:

      Dear Socrates McSporran………..correct, although I prefer the terms Man or Woman.

    131. John H. says:

      Socrates MacSporran. I agree, but I’m sure I read somewhere that at the next census there will be 21 gender choices.. I hope that’s wrong.

    132. Ahundredthidiot says:

      Scotland the Brave my arse

      I think we proved in 2014 that we’re Scotland the Slave.

      Time yet, for all that….

    133. galamcennalath says:

      @Socrates MacSporran

      Agree. The biology of reproduction is straightforward.

      Folks can dress up how they like. They can pretend to be what they want among other consenting adults. However out in wider society the established norms of women go here, and men go there is an existential imperative IMO.

    134. jeff says:

      Phydaux @ 7.46;

      Exactly! Good King Robert will be spinning in his grave.

    135. Jim Lynch says:

      One or two wee points – just thinking that Unionists should really be called anti-Scots, because that is exactly what they are, hiding behind a mythical Union.

      While no official English anthem, as far as I am aware their football supporters have adopted Jerusalem; it is definitely English “and did these feet in ancient time walk upon English mountains green, and was the holy Lamb of God in England’s pleasant pastures seen.” My mind boggles at the sight of tattooed supporters singing with reverence.
      One wonders how Jesus managed to get to England before Ryanair.

    136. Golfnut says:

      Scotland,the people of Scotland and our institutions have been under the hammer for so long now it appears we have forgotten how to fight back. We have been made second class citizens in our country(Scotland)by the Parliament of another country.

      They have used lies, misinformation,threats and abuse. We are bombarded daily by a foreign owned media and denied the right during constitutional processes through those lies to make informed decisions. We are denied our constitutional right, not only against international convention but against our own constitutional laws.

      Enough, time the Yes movement, not the SNP or the Scottish Gov, took up the challenge and moved against those who would deny us our right.

      When this election is over, and before the referendum, we need people on the streets with a petition that orders the Scottish Parliament to begin a judicial review on what criminal charges can be brought against Politicians, the media and civil service for their actions against the People of Scotland. Actions that have facilitated the removal of Scotland’s wealth.

      I am sick of listening to the abuse directed at our institutions,our politicians. I am sick of listening to the lies, I am sick of listening to Lickspittals and liars telling us what we can and cannot do.

      Surely it is not beyond us to make this happen.

    137. Breeks says:

      Phydaux says:
      3 December, 2019 at 7:46 am

      …Check out the Corries’s original version of Flower of Scotland from 1968, which bears little resemblance from the one belted out at rugby internationals….

      That’s one of those wee diamonds Socrates was talking about. I can honestly say I’d never heard that before… awesome.

    138. galamcennalath says:

      The National …. “Jackson Carlaw will today make every single one of his 57 Scottish Tory candidates sign a special no2indyref2 pledge.”

      Fair enough. If the Tories get most MPs in Scotland then they can speak for Scotland. That’s democratic.

      However if someone else, the SNP for instance, get most MPs then they get to speak for Scotland. And what the Tories think of IndyRef2 is of no consequence. Or is that not how Tories see things working out!?

    139. Joe says:

      I notice a few on here getting onto Mr Campbell (sorry, I cant being myself to call him ‘stu’ as I dont know him and he probably wouldnt even like me if i did) about him being very against the SNP on their gender stance.

      I find it curious though. At what point is a party unsupportable? At what point does a party cross the line?

      The SNP have shown themselves to be totalitarian and fundamentally uninterested in the rights of females and even the recognition of women as a distinct group with their own unique set of needs.

      That might be an ugly truth to you all. But truth it is.

      Some of you might say that Mr Campbell is damaging Scottish independence by attacking the SNP on this (and some other lesser issues). Id say the SNP have damaged Scottish independence by such policies. Any attacks on them are justifiable.

      WOS cannot possibly damage the SNP by criticising these policies more than the actual adoption of such policies in and of themselves.

      That’s not WOS fault. That’s the SNP’s fault.

      You people who are prepared to support the SNP unconditionally I call ignorant at best and spineless and unprincipled at worst.

      ‘Aye, wimmins sex based rights might be getting pumped, but ah want muh independence right noo’.

      Unfortunately there’s a number of people in Scotland now who no longer have a pro indy party they can bring themselves to vote for. That number will grow:)

      I can’t wait to see the bright, inclusive, progressive future an independent Scotland (within the EU of course) will have when we are so committed to the act that basic human rights can be waived at will.

      Whats that? Im nothing but a lying, deceitful ‘yoon’? Well, whatever cheers you up, eh.

    140. Joe says:

      Oh a small addendum to what ive just said:

      Those of you with more than 2 brain cells might be wondering –

      ‘Why, if the SNP has made such hugely unpopular and damaging policy decisions are the Unionists not completely cutting them off at the knees for it? Why is the media not eviscerating them?’

      Well the answer is – because they are all in on it. The future is transgender kids. The future is women who have no sex based rights. The thing is – that’s just the beginning unless people start to become a bit more critical in their thinking.

    141. Dan says:

      Joes says 12.07pm

      “…You people…”

      Yawn, not cool tarring everyone with the same brush there Joe.

      Anyway, you seem to miss the big picture, the whole point of independence is we will be able to have more direct reigns on our politicians and parties that we alone will elect. This will deal with your “at what point…” question.
      At the moment our politics in this UK construct is a fudge so this allows politicians of all the parties to move like slippy eels in a large murky pond making it easy for them to avoid our grasp.
      Once we’ve drained the volume of the current UK swamp by removing the 10 to 1 democratic deficit within it, we’ll find it much easier to catch and hold those eels to account.
      We need to end the union to be able to do this. No point jumping off the Indy ship till we’re there, but that of course might be what you want us to do though eh?

    142. wullie says:

      I agree entirely golf nut

    143. Elmac says:

      I second that Wullie.

    144. Dorothy Devine says:

      Thirded and more!

    145. Arthur Thomson says:

      I just made a small donation to the SNP fighting fund. I can’t vote in Scotland so it’s all I can do. The SNP is imperfect for many reasons but it is what we have. We need to get Scotland independent and from that we can create a good country based on genuine democratic principles. That will deal with the other important concerns we have – it is the only way to deal with those concerns other than accepting the decisions imposed upon us by our neighbour, which will never be designed to serve Scotland’s needs.

    146. msean says:

      I do prefer Scotland the Brave to be honest.Better tempo than either of the other dirges.

    147. Joe says:

      @ Dan

      Yes ‘you people’. Its not me who consistently ‘others’ those with a different opinion here. Its regulars. When I started posting I was consistently referred to as Nazi. Now im just the local troll. So yes – ‘you people’ fits the bill for me. Im not like you, im not a part of the crap you believe in, im not in your ridiculous club of gormless wokeness and progressive self indulgence. However what im not going to do is cede any territory to leftist political fanatics.

      My comment however was basically about this however:

      1 – the SNP pushes a policy that negatively affects 50%+ of the population based on junk science and NGO pressure.
      2 – WOS calls them out on it
      3 – retards in the Yes movement criticise WOS for not saying nice things about the SNP over it.

      Seriously. Are you people on drugs?

    148. Joe says:

      @ Dan

      Sorry Dan. I replied to you but my comment is awaiting moderation:)

    149. Joe says:

      @ Dan

      My reply:

      Yes ‘you people’. Its not me who consistently ‘others’ those with a different opinion here. Its regulars. When I started posting I was consistently referred to as Nazi. Now im just the local troll. So yes – ‘you people’ fits the bill for me. Im not like you, im not a part of the crap you believe in, im not in your ridiculous club of gormless wokeness and progressive self indulgence. However what im not going to do is cede any territory to leftist political fanatics.

      My comment however was basically about this however:

      1 – the SNP pushes a policy that negatively affects 50%+ of the population based on junk science and NGO pressure.
      2 – WOS calls them out on it
      3 – people in the Yes movement criticise WOS for not saying nice things about the SNP over it.

      Seriously. Are you people on drugs?

    150. John says:

      This spitting the dummy out and not going to vote SNP is just a side show , they are not nationalists , real committed nationalists will vote for the party that will bring Scotland into being an independent country , that is the SNP , no ifs or buts .

    151. HandandShrimp says:

      On the self ID thing, I think it is too niche to be a deciding factor on anything and the same advocates are in all the other parties too with the possibly the exception of the Tories but then the Tories are unelectable in a raft of far more immediate issues, like child poverty.

    152. Liam says:

      A quick question.

      Is it actually illegal in Scotland for a man to use a public toilet with a ‘woman’ symbol on the door, and, similarly, for a woman to use a public toilet with a ‘Man’ symbol on the door?

      I can’t find anything that says it is.

    153. Ottomanboi says:

      I believe it was Mahatma Gandhi who said re Indian independence, independence will not get rid of bad government but it will be OUR bad government not yours.

    154. Sarah says:

      @Golfnut, Dorothy et al – me too!

    155. Dr Jim says:

      Our next door neighbours have the keys to our house and keep taking things so we need to change the locks to keep them from doing that but two or three of the people in our street don’t like the locksmith we’ve got so we’ve decided to keep letting the neighbours take stuff until the other two or three people approve of another locksmith, OK we might end up with nothing in our house but by jove we’ll have the approval of two or three neighbours and that’s what’s really important isn’t it

      I’ve emailed the locksmith and asked that she come round my house to give me personal reassurances that whatever the other two or three neighbours are unhappy about will be sorted but she hasn’t acknowledged me so I’m leaving all the doors in my house open to make it easier for the burgling neighbours, because I’m just that offended that the locksmith refuses to do a Michael Jackson and heal the world so I can get a new lock on my door

    156. Famous15 says:

      Liam asks about what law is broken if a man enters a womens’ toilet . Firstly if they tried to pee in the sink it could be indecent exposure I guess but the law relating to Breach of the Peace is mote likely to be used.

    157. manandboy says:


      It is said that the Tories have not achieved anything in ten years of government. But they have. They’ve achieved staying in power for ten years. To them that’s all that matters. That’s why they have smeared Jeremy Corbyn continuously, as he is the big threat to Tory control.

      They are in power in order to ensure that the flow of wealth in the UK continues into private hands. It’s called Neoliberalism and is the operating system in the UK, like the Android or Apple OS in your phone. It has been this way since Thatcher did a re-boot in 1979.

      Power and privatisation is the Establishment’s only desire and achievement. Being in power is the only way to accomplish total privatisation of public assets, which is the underlying explanation of virtually everything the Tories do.

      It is hidden in plain sight. The electorate looks on, but few understand what they are looking at.

      Vote SNP, the path to Independence.

    158. Liz g says:

      Joe @ 1.36
      Then why are you here?

    159. Liam says:

      Firstly if they tried to pee in the sink it could be indecent exposure I guess but the law relating to Breach of the Peace is mote likely to be used.

      But there is nothing illegal about any human being using any public toilet so long as they don’t expose ‘themselves’ (i.e. genitals) in a space where other people can see them?

    160. Jack Murphy says:

      Thanks Hackalumpoff for all your links posted at 7:24 am today.

      ” Fresh links here:

      Much appreciated,especially this one:

      “The bbc in Scotland are rotten to the core

      but all the links are useful and informative.
      Again,many thanks.

    161. Dan says:

      Joe says: at 1:36 pm

      Yes ‘you people’. Its not me who consistently ‘others’ those with a different opinion here. Its regulars. When I started posting I was consistently referred to as Nazi. Now im just the local troll. So yes – ‘you people’ fits the bill for me. Im not like you, im not a part of the crap you believe in, im not in your ridiculous club of gormless wokeness and progressive self indulgence. However what im not going to do is cede any territory to leftist political fanatics.

      My comment however was basically about this however:

      1 – the SNP pushes a policy that negatively affects 50%+ of the population based on junk science and NGO pressure.
      2 – WOS calls them out on it
      3 – people in the Yes movement criticise WOS for not saying nice things about the SNP over it.

      Seriously. Are you people on drugs?

      Joe, it would appear you haven’t read many of my posts on here then, or you would’ve been aware you are actually aligned quite closely with myself and quite a few more Wings btl posters on the subject matter of your 1,2,3.

      That being the case I was correct in calling you out for tarring everyone with the same brush, yet you continue with that angle…
      So it seems you yourself have now fallen into the very same trap you accuse folk of, by consistently othering folk that hold a different opinion to yourself, even when it’s based on your false assumptions.

    162. auld highlaander says:

      For the last few years I have been an avid reader of Wings and I have really had my eyes opened about all the shenanigans of the imperial masters and their lackeys in the media whether paper, sound or visual. At present the SNP is our only way to freedom and it really surprises me that there are readers on here who claim they are not going to give them their vote next week. Have they learnt nothing from these pages? Are they quite happy for the present dictatorship to carry on pissing on them for the next five years? Or they just trolls attempting to disrupt?
      Just get off yer erses on the 12th and vote SNP.

    163. manandboy says:


      Al Quaeda could not have done as much damage to the UK Monarchy as Prince Andrew, Duke of York, has achieved – and single-handedly too. What a Christmas present to Mum & Dad, eh? The other family members too must be fizzing about it.

      Now then, once again, why do we think the ‘planets for Independence’ are aligning?

    164. heraldnomore says:

      Bampot on LBC right now – SNP Bad, anti English, affects tactical voting to get Indy off the table…

    165. heraldnomore says:

      and well rebutted by next caller…

      Shelagh Foggarty is superb these days.

    166. Dan says:

      There is actually a positive aspect to all these different factions and individuals within the Indy movement busily pushing their specific agendas.
      Namely that they are presently promoting themselves and their objectives, so that affords the electorate the opportunity to say “we see you”.
      As and when Indy comes, the people will then be able to make a far more informed choice having had time to consider the specific aims of these various groups and individuals.

      In the first few “democratic washes” once Scotland returns to having a normal country’s status, the people will then determine the path forward, and their votes will give appropriate democratic representation for what those groups and individuals stand for.
      What’s not to like about that?

    167. twathater says:

      @Dan @ 12.24 PM I think you explainerised that eloquently , the vast amount of slippery eels that we have at present in the yookay will be massively reduced when we have independence , and as Liz G continuously says WE ALL want a government within SLAPPING distance that will feel our combined wrath when they do things wrong or go against the best interests of the Scottish people

      BBBBUUUUTTTT we have to get independence to realise that dream and the ONLY ONLY ONLY way to achieve that is to vote SNP irrespective of individuals feelings , when indy is accomplished we can address or REVERSE current policies eg OBFA or GRA

      cynicalHighlander 10.55am that was a very enlightening link you posted and I would advise people to read it

      PS I noticed on the politics programme that liebour Andy McDonald is now nicking another one of Nicola’s policy’s he stated that the only way to protect the NHS from trumpet is to enshrine it in law , as Nicola has stated 3 times on national TV but has as usual been ignored

    168. Liz g says:

      Twathater @ 3.52
      You beat me to it,I totally agree that Dan @ 12.24 is on the money and called out the hypocrisy of joe for the baiting nonsense it is….
      One thing I have noticed twice now, is that when Nicola just about gets to the point using legislation to protect the NHS she is interrupted,it will be interesting to see this bill come to Westminster…..

    169. twathater says:

      Liz g 4.05pm don’t hold your breath waiting for liebour to bring a bill to protect the NHS , we in Scotland have waited decades for ANY of them to do ANYTHING positive for Scotland

      And as for SLAPPING distance for OUR government I am sick that people cannot see or will deliberately not see the benefits that will bring alone , of course MINUS the yoonionist plankton members

    170. Dan says:

      @twathater & LizG

      Aye, he was attempting sow division by talking a roll full o’ mince…that was Sloppy Joe.

      It’s ok, I’ll get my own coat…

      NHS shiz from a couple of weeks back in Scottish Parliament.

    171. dadsarmy says:

      @Dr Jim
      Jings, I’m not moving to your neighbourhood!

    172. Dr Jim says:

      @dadsarmy 4:44pm

      My wee description of Scotland, I was going to use the football analogy *I don’t like the striker so I hope Scotland loses* but I thought that was just *too* easy

      What’s life without whimsy

    173. The fact that. B. McDougall and his ilk want to change our national anthem proves to me that it is the right one to have

    174. dadsarmy says:

      @Dr Jim
      Indeed, nothing like a bit of whimsy!

      I had a quite strange dream. It seems I was ferrying the friends of the kids home for some reason, their current age not when they were young. And the friends were being AHs when I asked where to take them, kind of “why should we tell you that?”. (they’re not like that by the way).

      I woke up quite hacked off, and realised that only in a dream would you put up with that kind of nonsense, in real life you’d just get up and go home yourself, and leave them all to it.

      I think in Scotland we’re often living the nightmare.


    175. Dan says:

      dadsarmy says: at 5:05 pm

      I woke up quite hacked off, and realised that only in a dream would you put up with that kind of nonsense, in real life you’d just get up and go home yourself, and leave them all to it.

      I think in Scotland we’re often living the nightmare.


      Crikey dads, easy tiger, I nearly spat my Guinness out and had to re-read that. lol

      FYI I’ve a feeling a lot of the young adults have awakened.
      Had another good conversation with a younger couple today. It’s joyous to converse with such receptive minds.

    176. boris says:

      The Aberdeen City Council leadership has taken the unusual step of accessing City of London money by selling bonds, raising £370m in November 2016 to help finance a massive £1bn capital spending programme.

      As well as using the bond markets, the Council is taking out cheap loans from the Public Works Loan Board, a Treasury agency.

      But echos of the South Sea Bubble should provide a salutary warning for Douglas Lumsden and the Aberdeen City Council

      Noting his employment history is in IT the financial commitment raises questions over just what qualifications should be required before allowing councillors to spend public money on speculative deals.

      This is relevant since the City of London financiers are a smart bunch of operators and the jungle that they survive in is no place for the inexperienced.

      These guys do not take prisoners and will stuff Aberdeen Council if the opportunity arises.

      The foregoing is witnessed by the 2014 downturn in the oil industry, of which the Unionist parties made a great play on during the referendum campaign, claiming the volatility of the market was such that an independent Scottish Government would not be able to survive its financial rise and fall.

      Yet only three years later, with the market on the up the Tory Labour Coalition in Aberdeen have opened the city up to the same rising and falling oil market.

      It would be disastrous for Aberdeen if there was a wibbly-wobbly occurrence and/or the City of London speculators short moneyed the Council.

      Large debts and no money to even meet the interest charges.

      Unemployment in Aberdeen could rise by around 50%.

      Nice one Mr Lumsden.

    177. Dr Jim says:

      Jackson Carlaw on radio Scotland informs all of us people in Scotland that although he has changed his mind on the EU all the rest of the population of Scotland do not, have not, can not, and will not have that same right as him, for he is the spoksegit of the Union of the Tories and *under* good king Johnson no such rights as mind changing will be extended once a decision has been made by him and he alone

      When you publicly declare yourself a dictator you’re inviting the public not to like that, and they won’t

    178. Republicofscotland says:

      After weeks of attacking the SNHS the ultra unionist STV news switches to attacking education levels at Schools in Scotland.

      Like Reporting Scotland STV a unionist propaganda outlet in Scotland are a disgrace.

    179. galamcennalath says:

      Listened Radio Shortbread in the car today 4-5pm. They really are at it.

      They are getting clever. It’s not so much obvious clangers, the overall tone and strategy.

      Any good news is accompanied by bad caveats.

      When discussing the election they serve up reserved and devolved issues all mixed up. No boundaries, no indication of what is actually relevant to this general election. It’s intentional. Cover WM’s arse, while imply all problems could be the SNPs. Also, keeping everyone confused is part of the overall plan.

      Even asked someone being interviewed who they thought was to blame for homelessness, WM or Holyrood. The correct answer is lack of powers in Holyrood and therefore essentially WM’s fault.

      Masters of deflection, misinformation, and omission.

    180. Heart of Galloway says:

      Haven’t posted much on here much of late mainly because after campaigning and work I cannae be fecked.

      Doon here on the south-western front Richard Arkless is sweating blood to get the better of Alister Jack, a man whose only political ambition is to stay in politics long enough to get his peerage, that coveted bauble bestowed on Jack, Jim, Annabelle, Alastair, Mike, Ian, George, David and countless other wasters before him.

      If Richard Arkless wins that *ambition* will be in tatters, the braying unionists here will be silenced and a huge blow will be struck for the Indy cause.

      I was at a well-attended public meeting on Sunday and the Yes/SNP side had a clear and vocal majority. Arkless was excellent, Jack was wooden and roundly booed when he tried to raise “the Scottish NHS is failing” and “once in a generation” crap.

      But how closely the mood in the hall resembled the true situation is anybody’s guess.

      All to play for in Bonnie Gallowa’…

    181. Republicofscotland says:

      So the unionist tv channel STV has billed its 8pm political show a as debate. In reality though it will be the three unionist parties leaders versus Nicola Sturgeon. We saw it back in 2014.

      It’s nothing more than an anti-independence get together aired to the masses to try and persuade Scots that London knows what’s best for you and your children.

      Now shut up and eat your cereal Scotland.

    182. Terry callachan says:

      VOTE SNP

      That is all that matters if you want Scotland to make it’s own decisions in future

      The alternative is that England’s majority of people and power will decide things for you just as they have done with BREXIT

      GENDER Recognition SELF I.D.

      There are numerous laws that will decide what can and what cannot be changed in current law
      Nearly all of it out with the scope of the Scottish government

      See link below

      Remember it’s the Scottish government that will make the decision and not the SNP


    183. dadsarmy says:

      Yeah, it’s good to lull people into a false sense of boring security and then scare the bejubs out of them, It helps to get raw reactions all the same, and shake loose the usual mind-numbing assumptions, things we take for granted – until asked – why?

      Joe does do a bit of that of course, but the problem is doing too much of it and people wonder our motives.

    184. Unionist Media BDSM Club says:

      Bit late, but:

      ‘Rebellious Scots’ will remain crushed in God Save the Queen
      Marc Horne
      February 14 2010, 12:01am,
      The Sunday Times

      >The UK government has rejected calls to remove an “anti-Scottish” verse from the British National Anthem to make it more inclusive.

      >Lord Goldsmith, the former attorney general who led Gordon Brown’s review of British citizenship, had suggested that a verse calling for “rebellious Scots” to be crushed ought to be rewritten.

      >His remarks provoked speculation that the little-known stanza in God Save the Queen, written during the Jacobite uprising of 1745, was likely to be altered or officially disowned.


      I.e. our dear friends in Broon’s Labour govt looked at whether ‘rebellious Scots to crush’ was too offensive to keep in the UK’s national anthem and then decided Nah, it’s fine as it is.

      What other country would put up with this? Imagine the French in 2019 singing The Marseillaise about marching off to crush themselves…

    185. Dr Jim says:

      Who knew that being the same as the rest of the world, or *average* qualified as abject failure in Scotland

      It’s a pretty pathetic bit of news spinning when you can get away with saying Scotland is better at something but failingly average at something else

    186. cynicalHighlander says:

      Why was Neil Harvey the then SNP canditate for Kirkaldy suspended and who Nicola is recomending people don’t vote for him?

      Nothing to do with hime signing the Womens pledge protecting womens rights, eh!

      GRA has been brought to the forefront of this election by the Leader of the SNP.

      I don’t wish to live in a society were half of the population are disenfrachised by a hapless leader pushing her own agenda like all dictatorships have done in the past.

    187. Dr Jim says:

      So if there are any abused spouses in Willie Rennie’s constituency there’s no point in going to him for help because he’ll tell you that breaking up is hard to do so just suck it up and stay, and if your spouse kills you Willie Rennie will complain about the mental health of your family in their grief

    188. Sinky says:

      What a charade having a “Scottish” leaders debate when it is a UK General Election as Unionists keep telling us.

      Westminster MPs have no jurisdiction over devolved matters.

    189. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Dan @ 15:08,

      You make the sincere but misplaced assumption that he actually cares about anything, whereas all that interests Troll Farmer is identifying issues of concern within the pro-indy community and doing whatever he can to lever open the cracks thus discovered. He is no genuine believer in, or friend of, independence. Ready resort to phrases such as “you people” rather give his game away, though. Occasionally the mask slips.

      He’s nothing more than a (professional?) disruption-monger without a trace of sincerity. He presents as right-wing maybe with a view to peeling-off such people from the cause, probably judging them to be the weakest link.

      He’s a total fake. Like “Colin” and “Alexander”, “Joe” is likely not even his real name.

    190. boris says:

      I was told that the father of a Tory MSP had spent time in Bar-L. Anyone any idea who this could be??

    191. K1 says:

      So 4 guys all attacking NS over indy, same old unionist gang up. Not a good look STV.

    192. K1 says:

      The biggest party in Scotland voted into Scottish parliament by the people of Scotland being lectured by the losers of all Scots gov elections for 12 years, telling the people of Scotland via the proxy leader NS that they have no say about having a day in our future.

      Vote SNP. Get these fuckers telt.

    193. dadsarmy says:

      Wouldn’t you love this as a result:

      “Scottish subsample: SNP 52%, Conservatives 25%, Labour 11%, Liberal Democrats 7%, Greens 4%”

      Thing is I personally think it could happen, if we all vote SNP first and vomit later. And the Unionists wouldn’t be able to say “peak SNP is past” [1]

      electoral calculus:

      SNP – 54 (one of them probably Ind)
      CON – 3
      Lab – 1
      Lib – 1

      [1] no matter how much some even genuine Undy supporters might want that to be true!

    194. dadsarmy says:

      Not watching it, maybe later. But headlines like this from hark the herald:

      STV Leaders’ Debate: Scottish independence and Brexit dominate

      don’t do Indy or the SNP any harm 🙂

    195. Socrates MacSporran says:

      STV “Leaders Debate” – Aye Right. One leader and three office boys.

      How I wish, when, as Jackass Carless did, the Yoons start on devolved issues, Nicola would just say: “That’s a devolved issue, this is a Westminster election, so let’s speak about reserved issues,” and go back on the attack.

      Finally, how bad was Small Dick Leopard, to be ripped a new one by Jackass? And, wasn’t Wee Willie Rennie, as ever, woeful?

    196. BJ says:

      Really wanted to hear the answers to some of the questions from the participants but Willie Rennie had other ideas. Stupid little freak, he just doesn’t know when to shut up.

      Poor show Colin, I thought you would have handled this better.

    197. Republicofscotland says:

      Well a fair bit of mansplaining directed at the FM in that STV debate.

      Interestingly not one of the unionist branch office leaders was prepared to apologise for the suffering and misery they caused through austerity on the people of Scotland.

      Also the three unionist leaders think its up to them and not the people of Scotland to decide Scotlands future.

      Arrogant b#stards.

    198. dadsarmy says:

      At the same time, from that Herald article, there’s this tweet from STV News: “Richard Leonard asks Jackson Carlaw to apologise for Universal Credit, which he claims has pushed ‘tens of thousands of families across Scotland into poverty

      with the comment from the Herald: ” Probably the biggest hit so far of the debate. You can watch below”

      I think increasingly Scottish Labour are recognising that having at the SNP isn’t doing them any good, but the TGories – and LibDems for helping them in the Colaition, are.

      About time, and good.

    199. Dr Jim says:

      Colin McKay, usually very good at the interviewing was total crap at the chairing by allowing people to not answer questions and Carlaw and Rennie took advantage of the leaway to waffle

      Leopold was useless but at least he tried to answer
      Nicola Sturgeon also tried to answer but was not really asked questions so much as pointy finger accused of stuff

      All in all a pointless exercise in allowing the office juniors of other firms to shout at the boss of a successful company and get away with it for the day

    200. Sandy says:

      Just watched the STV debate.

      My question is, why have these debates in the first place? Questions are asked, answers proffered; however, two or three words into these answers the questioner interrupts. Result, a garbled cacophony of sound, 90% of which is incomprehensible.
      A waste of bloody time.


      May I repeat a previous post. In view of parties deselecting candidates for various remarks, some apparently trivial, our Boris must head the league.


    201. John says:

      Herald poll on who won the STV debate gives it to Nicola Sturgeon by a mile , so the pointy fingers and the not allowing answers from Crackers and Rent-a-clown hasn’t worked ! .

    202. mr thms says:

      Dr Jim you are on fire with all your comments tonight..

    203. Famous15 says:

      Most telling comment of the STV debate was the Scottish Conservative leader in his best glorious self loathing style saying viewers were only watching while waiting for I am a Celebrity coming on.

      Jackson Carlaw you are s non celebrity get out of here!

      Like Johnson he thinks the Scots are buffoons.

    204. manandboy says:

      At 10.23pm, Nicola was up at 82% after 3362 votes cast.
      Willie Rennie did well, I must say, he got 1%!

    205. kapelmeister says:

      Willie Rennie is like one of those people who keep going along to TV talent show auditions year after year and refuse to believe the verdict of the judges/audience that they’ve jist nae got it.

    206. mr thms says:

      Re tonight’s Leaders Debate on STV.

      Mr Rennie does not speak for Scotland.

      Has Mr Rennie commented on this article?

    207. dadsarmy says:

      Sturgeon 84%. At that rate the SNP will get 398 Westminster seats, and there are only 59, apparently.

    208. Dr Jim says:

      Nicola Sturgeons ratings must be bursting Nigel Farage’s blood vessels, while he can’t get elected as a MP in England Scotlands FM could have more influence on UK government by phone frae her hoose

      I suppose she could skype every noo and again

    209. dadsarmy says:

      I think it’s funny.

      You see the Unionists making a massive mistake and want to point it out to fellow Indy supporters but then think “hold on a wee minute here”, so you shut up, and then have to watch them make the same mistake day after day after day.

      Life is hellish.

      But it’s a laugh …

    210. Still Positive says:

      No point in me watching debates as I’ll be voting SNP as I have done since Oct 1974.

      My son suggested we get postal votes as the weather might be bad and then our local SNP put postal vote applications through our letter box recently. We have both now voted SNP and the Cooncil should already have them.

    211. Giving Goose says:

      Willis Rennie is the Pierre Laval of Scotland.
      His role is to sell Scotland out at every opportunity.

    212. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Radio Shortbreid going large on tactical voting this morning.

      Last gasp defence to maximise return of BritNat MPs in their Scottish Region by the State Propaganda Service

    213. Glamaig says:

      Radio Shortbread on their second item about tactical voting this morning – I wonder why that could be

    214. Breeks says:

      People are not angry enough about this.

      Every f#*!er, and indeed TV station, who is saying Scotland should be denied a referendum is saying Scotland shouldn’t be allowed to speak. These wankers are only in office by virtue of a democratic vote, and have the brazen barefaced impertinence to sit in judgement about when the electorate may be permitted to speak again.

      If Scotland’s Parliament had any backbone, these subverters of Scotland’s Sovereign democracy should thrown out of Parliament and suspended for bringing politics into disrepute, and think themselves lucky they are not being thrown into jail for the same desecration of democracy as those implicated in a military coup or unlawful regime change by colonial interference.

      These jokers and non entities only exist because of our votes, and yet the arrogant tossers set themselves up as sovereign. They are the very definition of tin pot dictators, and it’s high time Scotland put them in their place.

    215. Grey Gull says:

      @Glamaig 7:55

      Was wondering exactly the same thing.

    216. Ottomanboi says:

      Vote to end the misery, conceit, shame and cultural self-hate that is Unionism.
      There is no such beast as a good unionist.
      Their weakness our strength, our weakness their strength.

    217. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Reflecting this morning on last night’s STV “debate,” what a shambles.

      Jackass, Small Dick and Wee Willie were born out of their time. A century and more ago, Jackass would have been The Resident in a hill station in the foothills of the Himalayas, Dick would have been a minor clerk in the Indian civil service in Bombay, while Wee Willie would have been a District Commissioner somewhere in Bongo Bongo Land.

      Jackass and Wee Willie would be charged with keeping the natives quiet, while Dick would be doing as he was told by those in authority. So, really, not much has changed as they do their bit to subjugate England’s last colony.

      Wee Willie is an irrelevance – like the later Norman Wisdom’s career, he is no longer even funny. Jackass simply does what a Toerag who is unable to think for himself does – puts himself above people in the service of his own “betters,” but, my real contempt I reserve for Dick and the Labour Party in Scotland.

      They did nothing for us in the 50 years or so when we backed them to the hilt and now we have seen the light and turned away from them, they are angry and bitter towards Scotland.

      Well, Hell mend you – you had it coming.

      We gotta get out of this poisonous Union, fast.

    218. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Breeks @ 08:00,

      TV stations particularly. Compare with CNN, which has several programmes a day were they pick the (staringly obvious) holes in Trump World and challenge the f~wittery all the way. Here the deference is so overwhelming that the media slaves just reproduce the arrogant nonsense as if it’s written in tablets of stone, fresh from the holy mountain.

      Never mind any semblance of professionalism, it’s “oppose the SNP” no matter what. But y’know, I do believe it’s beginning to backfire now. Many people were reluctant to have to confront the issue of independence again so soon, which is what gave Buffalo Gal and her willing little helpers their traction last time. But that was then. Brexit and the antics of the WM Clown Circus have unlocked more people now, and though they still aren’t getting visibly angry, maybe quite a few are intending to get even.

      Last time there was a significant drop in turnout for the SNP, but I reckon with the situation being so critical, it will be a different story this time. Which means that the inherent discounting for turnout based on the 2017 result that the pollsters are presumably applying may if anything be underestimating the likely overall gains for the SNP. Provided voter complacency doesn’t set in.

      It’s all to play for, so everyone, get out there, cast your vote and make waves that sweep away the specious anti-democratic bluster.

    219. Phronesis says:

      How to dismantle a state asset without public consent or consultation – hollow out the workforce and sell it off bit by bit. Everything is on the table, served up on a silver platter.

      ‘The Health Foundation says there has been an effective “hollowing out” of the NHS workforce as increases in the numbers of doctors and clinical support staff are set against growing registered nurse vacancies, which rose to a record-high of almost 44,000 in the first quarter of 2019, and growth in the level of output the NHS is delivering (including numbers of operations, consultations, diagnostic procedures and A&E visits in a year), which grew by almost a quarter (23%) between 2010/11 and 2016/17’

      ‘US technology companies under a trade deal with America.
      Alan Winters, director of the Trade Policy Observatory at Sussex University, said clauses on data sharing and algorithms that US negotiators want inserted into a deal could be used to capture the value in NHS patient records, estimated at £10 billion a year’

    220. Gary45% says:

      Just had the Lie Dum leaflet through the door.
      To quote “Jo Swinson is the most popular party leader across the uk” ( The Liberal Delusional Party)
      Well there is a FU*KING LIE for a start, unless the poll was done with only people called Jo Swinson in the Lie Dums, then again I don’t think she would be first in that scenario either. (they do have form with graphs and charts)
      Lie, after lie, after lie.
      Is it worth using some oxygen to watch the debate on ShitTV last night? if so, I might get it on Ya Tube.

    221. Dorothy Devine says:

      Gary45%, from what I can gather it would be a waste of time that you never get back – try reading Paul K, Wee Ginger Dug for a perfect summary.

    222. Gary45% says:

      Dorothy Devine@9.53
      Cheers for that.

    223. galamcennalath says:

      Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Here the deference is so overwhelming that the media slaves just reproduce the arrogant nonsense

      They do indeed.

      I don’t think it was always this way. I remember good in depth investigative journalism which held officialdom to account. Programs like World in Action, Dispatches, and Panorama (now pathetic would expose corruption, wrongdoing, and the effects of bad policies.

      Once upon a time TV current affairs progs would have been all over austerity and benefits cuts. Now it’s just nothing here to see, move along.

      When did it start? Well there’s always been censorship and propaganda. However, I suspect things got worse at some point after the Thatcher revolution. Some elements of establishment probably felt some elements of the media too critical of the government. Certainly by the Iraq war, no one posed a serious threat to the official narrative. The BBC acted as Blair cheerleaders.

    224. Old Jock says:

      I was going to propose the old Soviet anthem but I see they still use it mildly re-arranged to new words.

      How come Scotland with all its talent hasn’t got anything near as good as Wales, Finland or France? Too long suffering GSTQ/K, that’s why.

    225. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      galamcennalath @ 10:09,

      I have the distinct impression that everything went dumb at the Beeb diretly after the Greg Dyke resignation in the wake of the Andrew Gilligan/David Kelly furore. The whole organisation under his successors totally lost its corporate bottle for any kind of investigative effort, and the BBC’s dependence on governmental political favour for ongoing funding sealed the deal. A Faustian pact which robbed the BBC of its soul.

      The BBC will never regain any kind of initiative as long as UKGov holds the purse strings. Its funding and control should instead be in the hands of an independent mutual trust whose board is elected by the licence payers.

      Can’t see that happening in a Cartel-run UK, but it could happen in Scotland with its SBC successor post-independence.

    226. Breeks says:

      It’s the Scottish Parliament which needs to act. If only we had a Scottish John Bercow actively, and dare I say it, fanatically defending the Parliament…

      For a Scottish politician to be advocating the curtailment of Scotland’s democracy is no better than having a soldier in our army who lobbies for our surrender. It is OUR Parliament. If you don’t believe in it, there’s the door.

      If the likes of Carlaw and his ilk feel that way, then I suppose they may be entitled to hold that opinion, just as bampot Orange Orders are allowed to indulge their sectarianism in private, but they have no place in the Scottish Parliament and their anti democratic initiatives should be vilified the same way that terrorism and armed coup subvert democracy, and forfeit their place in mainstream debate.

      No to a second referendum? That’ll be a “no” to your next seat in the Democratic chamber then…

      The media too should be sanctioned. You can be jailed in Scotland for contempt of the Courts, legal protocols are respected, and certain details cannot be broadcast. Why should our democracy, and the integrity of our Parliament be lesser served?

    227. shug says:

      BBC and the MSM is now full on anti Scottish government mode

      It is almost funny but interestingly the people that call in seem to so be very well spoken

    228. Bob Mack says:

      A bit O.T, but CNN bave nust released a video of Boris ,Macron, and Trudeau lzughing at Trump and mzking jokes about him.

      Filmed in an indiscreet moment.

      Trade deal off?

    229. starlaw says:

      Full on indeed and to add to that no interviewee is allowed to be aired unless they add “weve had enough of Brexit lets just get it done” or words to that effect. All MSM outlets in full on brainwashing mode.

    230. Bob Mack says:


      When the hel! are you going go set up your party? I will of course vote SNP for these series of elections, but I cannot indefinitely go on supporting a party that allows contempt for Wingers. I am very proud to be a member of Wings and I will never allow that to be disparaged on any account.

      Certain members of the SNP hVe become tainted by power and position it seems. It always happens I suppose.

    231. Dr Jim says:

      Referendum bill completes it’s journey through committee stage

    232. Why does the SNP just not refuse to take part in any BBC or other media programmes until the media stop twisting the facts and telling outright lies I mean by keeping taking part in these programmes you are in fact condoning them tell them that until they have a fair and honest media you will not take part in it its as simple as that

    233. Breeks says:

      I forget who it was posted the link, but big thanks whoever it was posted the Duolingo link to teach yourself Gaelic.

      7 days in and fair enjoying myself. Duolingo seems pretty good I think… I’m gonna keep going I think.

      Spelling is a bit of a killer. Hard to remember a thing you can’t spell, and pronounce it too, but it’s early days and it’s been a long time since I tried learning anything. Funny how some words stick right away, but others you just can’t remember. I can see myself standing in bars ordering a lot of ‘water’… lol.

      Tapadh leat a charaid. Is toil leam Gàidhlig gu mòr.

      (And sorry if that’s got errors. Only been doing it a week). I’ve been speaking English for decades and still can’t get it right.

    234. Capella says:

      The woke brigade in the SNP have launched an attack on Stu and WoS readers in general. We’re all sheep apparently and members of a cult. Significant moment to do this. It tends to confirm that they are an anti-indpendence group of entryists.

      Nothing would please me more than for everyone to defy them, vote SNP, vote Neale Hanvey and let get this YES movement over the line.

    235. Breeks says:

      @ Capella.

      I’ve never been called a cult before. Think it’s a typo?

    236. gus1940 says:

      Re censorship – I have never seen anybody comment on the sudden disappearance of Irish Jokes from the media in the run up to peace breaking out in NI.

      When did you last hear an Irish Joke?

      I don’t suppose for a minute that an edict went out from WM for them to be banned.

    237. Gary45% says:

      I would rather be a Cult than a CU*T.

    238. boris says:

      Alex Salmond demanded that Scottish taxpayers’ money had been misused and at the very least the results of these surveys should be published. But the spokesman for the Con/Dem government at Westminster said it was “not usual practice” to publish internal polling. In other words, get stuffed Alex!!!

      I did say the Liberal Democrats were sleazy but so blatant were these abuses of public finance in support of a political campaign by the Con/Dem government, Abuse of the Scottish electorate is commonplace with Westminster governments they got away with it, courtesy of the BBC and the Scottish, right-wing media who were well aware that the Con/Dem government had not even been economical with the truth. The brazenly lied to Sco

    239. John says:

      Bob Mack@11.44

      Could you tell us please who those members of the SNP are . I see no one , and I mean no one that is abusing any power they have , could you enlighten us please .

    240. Golfnut says:

      @ Breeks. 10:45.

      I agree with almost all of your comment, the exception being that Parliament should instigate some kind of action.

      Our current Presiding Officer is more likely to act against the Scottish Parliament and unless action was proposed and mandated by its inclusion in an election manifesto, to be honest I don’t see that happening.

      It should of course be in our Constitution, but that won’t happen until after we have binned this union.

      Outwith that, nothing will happen unless and until the people of Scotland decide to act, order not demand, that action is taken. Sovereign will expressed, Sovereignty in Action.

    241. Dr Jim says:

      The cult that has wormed it’s way into a political party that’s called a cult by other political parties calls WOS a cult in order to distract from the fact that it’s a cult

      I’ve swallowed the fly perhaps I’ll die

    242. SOG says:

      So is Rhiannon S telling me that Her Party doesn’t want me, my membership, and my small donations?

    243. Capella says:

      It is possible that Wokus Dei has difficulty spelling cult. They are visiting from the future where human biology no longer applies, nor common sense nor decency nor rational thought.
      Be inclusive.

    244. Dr Jim says:

      I’ve just recieved my daily dose of Liberal Democrat lies plastered all over leaflet that don’t either show a picture of the candidate or even tell you who it is, which in my case is comical because it’s the leader of their party Jo Swinson

      There’s nothing in the leaflets about anything the Liberal Democrats might do or even promise to improve anyone’s life, no these leaflets are all about the SNP and how Willie Rennie *vows* to “Halt Independence dead in its tracks” and how the SNP have said they can just “declare Independence” because it shows you the name of a newspaper Herald then year 2018 that might have said it or might not but that’s all the evidence you need for that fact though

      The leaflet also pictures Willie Rennie with a uniformed policeman showing that the officer obviously agrees with Mr Rennie and that you can trust what he says because well, a policeman

      Despite my front door being emblazened in SNP stickers and emblems in my windaes the Liberal Democrats have no shame or guilt over sticking their *information* through my letterbox only for me to litter the pavement immediately after by throwing it out through my window even though one of the bits of paper has my name and address printed on the front of it

      Liberal Democrat literature is always insidious in its nature by insisting that if you somehow don’t want to stop Independence there’s something wrong with you because that’s how everybody else feels about Independence and you’re not normal if you don’t

    245. manandboy says:



      “The immediate catalyst for our current chaos lies in the reckless strand of conservatism that now dominates the Tory party, thanks to the crisis of Brexit and the opportunism of Boris Johnson. The mentality of this new right is one that is hostile to the very idea of “neutral” or “independent” institutions as checks on power; they are viewed as sclerotic and self-interested. Much has been written about the philosophy of Dominic Cummings in this respect, but it was Michael Gove who elevated Cummings in the first place – and who is now sowing confusion and disinformation in the media as enthusiastically as anyone.”

      In fact, the immediate catalyst for the immediate catalyst of our current chaos in Brexit UK is the political theories of the Russian, Vladizlav Surkov. No one in the English Establishment is ever going to admit to ‘plagiarising’ Surkov’s methodology for political control, but the testimony of the collective experience of the UK electorate over the past three and a half years, cannot be set aside without an evidence-based argument of which there is no sign.

      It certainly appears as if lying is now Tory Government policy, a policy which has produced in the UK population, confusion, anxiety, doubt and uncertainty – the hallmarks of Surkovian political control. Do the sums, 1+1 always equals two.

    246. dadsarmy says:

      Imagine being called a cultist by someone with the name Ronin Spore!

    247. mike cassidy says:

      Always useful to read outside the bubble.

    248. dadsarmy says:

      Anyways, who’d have thunk this:

      Nicola Sturgeon won the poll with just under 8,000 votes and 87% of the vote.

      I doubt if any of the cult voted for her …

    249. Dr Jim says:

      How did the FM win that vote when I’m a cult member and didn’t vote, how can this be possible, did other people vote that I don’t know about, this is unacceptable that I wasn’t informed about this, was the vote compulsory, will I be sanctioned for not doing my duty, nobody in the cult told me

      I’m so afraid of the consequences now

    250. gus1940 says:

      There has been much talk during the current GE Campaign of the number of people not registered to vote.

      Surely a solution exists in the use of the government’s NI records using the individual’s NI Number.

      Unless I am mistaken every adult in the UK has an NI number and the records attached to that on the DSS computers will contain their current address.

      If a person is working their employer will update any change of address.

      If a person is unemployed or claiming benefits for any other reason their current address will be held.

      Similarly all those in receipt of a State Pension will be held with current addresses.

      Why not start again from scratch, scrap the current Electoral Rolls and generate new ones from the DSS NI records.

      This should create a rolling Electoral Roll without any need for annual returns and will take care of the following:-

      Those who die will automatically be deleted.

      People with multiple addresses such as those with second homes or students will only be allowed on the Roll for their primary address thus eliminating anybody who tries to vote twice for different addresses.

      Anybody still not on the Electoral Roll after this is set up (I cannot think of any category other than homeless people but am open to suggestions) can make individual application for inclusion.

      Not only would this system help to eliminate electoral fraud by ensuring that no individual is registered to vote twice the key being the NI No., but it would save much work in local authorities and many millions.

      I am open to constructive criticism of the above.

    251. Fireproofjim says:

      Brilliantly simple. The one number that follows us all from cradle to grave is your NI number.
      Why did no one think of this before.
      No need for mail cards. Just turn up at the polling station with your NI number. You are ticked off. You vote.

    252. dadsarmy says:

      @mike cassidy
      Yes, thanks for that, indeed seeing things from the other side.

    253. Bob Mack says:


      Try Mhairi Hunter,

      try Mhairi Black.

      Try Stewart McDonald.

      They al! seem to think they have a divine rjght to tell SNP members how to think.

      Try the Committee who tried to deselect Joann Cherry for protecting womens rights. Yoh been. asleep vor a while ?

    254. John says:

      Ah , that old chestnut, “I don’t like what that person says so the SNP are baad ” you should leave that to the yoons or are you one ?.

    255. Gary45% says:

      Has Donnie “Mr 2%” started a bun fight with Canada yet for calling him something as petty as a bawbag? I Switched the wireless off, tooo dull.

    256. jfngw says:

      BBC busy promoting how impartial they are, and no doubt they believe it. If you have a Conservative background and most of your colleagues are from the same background/school/university then being in support of the Conservatives I presume does seem like impartiality to you.

      BBC Scotland/STV has the same issue but with them it is unionism, they see it as the balanced position. Why else when the polls are pushing independence support at 50% or more you have debates with 75% unionist representation. After all they always claim UKIP had so much representation because of its support, not because of it’s MP’s of which there are none.

      Many have asked these questions but in that well known phrase ‘they didn’t answer’.

    257. Iain MacLachlan says:

      gus1940 says:
      4 December, 2019 at 1:58 pm
      There has been much talk during the current GE Campaign of the number of people not registered to vote.

      Surely a solution exists in the use of the government’s NI records using the individual’s NI Number.

      There is a problem with this at the moment. My wife has an NI number but no right to vote as she is an American citizen. She has lived here 46 years (double the life she had in the States) and receives a state pension but cannot vote.

      I know this will change with independence but she can’t even vote for that! She can, of course, vote in US elections.

    258. Bob Mack says:


      That would be No. If I did not like what the person says I would not vote for them. Fortunately my Candidate has a brain.
      What about yours?

    259. callmedave says:

      Still recovering from the ‘curriculum for excrement’ shocker in Kaye’s call in this morning. 🙁 Naughty auntie wie a kilt!

      Worth a peek on the Lib/Dems not cutting the mustard where it counts in Scotland.

      Another Ipsos Mori Poll online says my partner Karen. 🙂

    260. jfngw says:

      President Trump rushes off in the huff after he finds other leaders laughing at him. He is going to be pissed when he realises most of the world is laughing at him. Although it may be a laugh mixed with terror as they consider he also has the nuclear codes.

      Boris Johnson of course knows we are all laughing at him but he doesn’t care, he feels superior and the mugs have made him PM. It reinforces his belief (and his fathers) of the superiority of selective breeding (he is KHAN, or is it KHANETTE these days).

    261. Gary45% says:

      Best to just laugh at them, don’t let the blood pressure rise because of their bias, although stopping their funding (TV licence)is the best laugh of all.

    262. mike cassidy says:

      dadsarmy 2.17

      The problem now is I don’t know whether

      I’m a member of a cult

      I’m a member of the 77th

      I’m a nasty rightwinger

    263. callmedave says:

      Having a look at other things.

      Get your Euros for the holidays if your going away this week.
      £1 = €1.182. Was on the verge of parity a couple of months ago.

      All the UK 3-FTSE’s and the Yankee Dow rise being brave again.

      Trump and China might / maybe / possibly/could damp down trade skirmish rumours.

    264. mike cassidy says:

      For those wondering whether you can self-id your age

      Check out the pioneers of that activity here

    265. mike cassidy says:

      Scots treating the BBC with the respect it deserves.

    266. jfngw says:

      Will the written Scottish Constitution have the ‘right to bare arms (and legs)’ in it.

    267. dadsarmy says:

      @mike cassidy
      I was working it out earlier, on the basis that occasionally agreeing with people, articles, blogs, newspapers, books, politicians, journalists, comedians, people who work in shops, banks, that if all that makes me a meber of a cult, I’m now a 41,526 times cultist.

      It’s very confusing.

      And very tiring!

      I think I’ll just go back to being a cunt.

      Err, with apologies to the ladies.

      Err, lasses.

      Errr, women.

      Err, everyone of a female gender.


      Help me Rona



    268. Clapper57 says:

      Another (nouveau) bandwagon being jumped upon by the Lib Dems ….expect, in the future, ‘regrets’ to follow when people,in the NEAR future, say….Whaaaaat ??????

      Jo Swinson tweeted the following today :

      “We will completely reform of the Gender Recognition Act, removing the requirement for medical reports, scrap the fee and recognise non-binary gender identities.

      Require schools to introduce gender-neutral uniform policies and break down outdated gender stereostypes of certain subjects.

      Introduce an ‘X’ gender option on passports and extend equality law to cover gender identity and expression, ensuring a #BrighterFuture for everyone”.

      Well Jo, yet another ‘novel’ ‘trend driven’ new kid on the block policy ‘campaign’ strategy for Lib Dems to try and hemorrhage (more) votes pre GE…reaching out to the ordinary voters who erm see this particular agenda as a …..priority ????…..during the shitfest that is Brexit ????….are ye mental ?

      Meanwhile some ‘ordinary’ voters may ask Jo..’Sooooo this is important and essential..because ?’……and then turn to a friend and say…’Am I missing something here’?…or even say..’ ‘Is this a policy the Lib Dems think that I want, need and that will benefit me and mine or are they just jumping onto another (badly thought out and potentially damaging to me and mine) bandwagon again’?

      Wow Jo has given me ANOTHER reason NOT to vote Lib Dem….they really are the party that keeps on giving….i.e. giving absolutely no bloody reason to vote for them…at all… Lol

      Jo does not want you to put an X on the ballot paper next to the Lib Dem candidates…but instead put an XX or rather preferably an XY to replace the XX……

    269. Famous15 says:

      CLapper57 @ 4.35

      I am so glad the SNP are carefully consulting on this subject before giving a hasty solution which could for example impinge on women’s rights and even destroy their sport.

      Nicola Sturgeon wishes to uphold equality but is careful to avoid unintended consequences.

    270. callmedave says:


      I see your computer must be running on chromosome.

      🙂 excellent

    271. dadsarmy says:

      It’s funny really, even though I’d seen the film I didn’t realise why Gattaca was called Gattaca, until I helped the kids with some maths in biology.

      And that’ll probably also become uncool to the complete dunderheids gaining influence by losing friends and people.

      I also doubt if we’ll be carbon-based lifeforms for much longer, it discriminates against silicon-based ones.

      Ouch, I think I’ll just go and bury my head in the sands. Silicon based ones!

      We really do live in a mirror, darkly.

    272. Dr Jim says:

      Just spoke to a neighbour who thought Willie Rennie was the East Dunbartonshire candidate because there are no pictures of Jo Swinson to be seen on any literature

      My neighbour said Ah wz gonnae vote for the Liberals but a’hm no votin fur hur kiz she done nuthin last time an ah don’t like that Labour guy McConnell, I said you mean McDonnell? he said Naw the guy that stopped us aw smokin, is he no still in naw, I said, Naw!

      It went on hilariously like that for about twenty minutes of this completely clueless man rambling on about nae coal left and shipbuildin wiz deid and Scotland wiz deid then he drove off in his very newish 4×4 after talking about how naebdy’s goat any munny noo

    273. dadsarmy says:

      Still, I could always self-ID as a glass of Guinness and drink myself.


    274. kapelmeister says:

      Spear of Density thinks Rev Stu has done nothing to advance independence. Jeez!

    275. Dan says:

      @Dr Jim,

      Sounds like yon dude could be a contender for roaster of the week. I had similar a while back.

      I’m amazed at the amount of folk that have 4×4 vehicles for everyday driving when there is nothing they do that couldn’t be done with 2wd and a set of decent tyres.
      It’s just a load of extra weight with the mechanical and now electronic components requiring servicing and things that can fail, and they generally return poorer fuel consumption due to mechanical drag.
      Maybe that’s why yon dude was complaining about having no money.

    276. Defo says:

      Aye n aye is a big fan of Burning Spear. Roots mon.
      (Identifying as Jamaican Rasta)

    277. dadsarmy says:

      Mmm, another one bites the dust. Just 5 minutes a day after all boys and girls, dogs cats and pigs!

      Think I might create a profile for it as I always clear out cookies every browser session …

    278. mike cassidy says:

      Looks like another good snp member has been hanveyed.

      ie we’ll get you for supporting women with vaginas.

      And this time the ‘offense’ appears to be saying that it is wrong to describe criticism of Israeli policy as anti-semitic.

      Just aswell I never joined then.

    279. Confused says:

      When you come across the likes of Rhiannon Spear, you start to understand the craze for witch-burning in the 16th century.

      – also, the SCOLD’S BRIDLE, but the internet equivalent.

      – also, also : the charge of cultism … remember that it is a “tell” of psychopaths to

      accuse others of what they are guilty of

      I, for one, have never regretted signing my billion year contract with REVSTU, peas be upon him

      More seriously, anyone who joined the SNP within the last 5 years should not be let near ANY position of power.

      “rhiannon” was also a fleetwood mac song, sung by stevie nicks, and used to be the anthem for every annoying-as-fuck wannabe-gypsy-princess-seductress … just sayin

    280. Morgatron says:

      I am now identifying as a chicken tikka masala *extra green chillies and pilau rice but to tbh i was going to be a lamb garam masala and just let someone try and stop me , I think this whole self I’d thing is a total curry on.

    281. ElGordo says:

      Snow forecast throughout Scotland for general election day, Thu 12th.,2019-12-12-18,56.732,-4.521,7

    282. Clapper57 says:

      @ callmedave @ 4.52pm

      Lol….good one…

      BTW…read on t’internet that ‘Get Brexit Done’is an anagram of ‘Being extorted’….how Dominic Cummings that is…Lol

    283. mike cassidy says:

      Dan 6.30

      She’ll be getting ejected from the party for that tweet if someone tracks it down!

    284. Iain More says:

      It is not unusual for Quislings to suggest the awful dirge that is Scotland the Brave for an anthem.

    285. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      To get away from dirges, read this link and the comment after it, then click on the links in the first.

    286. Gary45% says:

      I’ve just watched the film Joyeux Noel, and the song “I’m dreaming of Home” would be a good anthem.

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