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Wings Over Scotland


Ultimate clarity

Posted on May 19, 2019 by

We watched the whole of the Labour shadow Scottish Secretary’s interview on this morning’s Sunday Politics Scotland, and can confirm that this is a wholly accurate representation of what she said on it with regard to Labour’s position on Brexit.

So for those of you keeping score: Labour does NOT support a second referendum, does NOT support the current deal, does NOT support no deal, but WOULD vote for the current deal if it included a second referendum, and would INSIST on a second referendum on any alternative deal.

Honestly, we have no idea why anyone’s still confused.

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    155 to “Ultimate clarity”

    1. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Reminds me of the quote from, I think, “Soap” –

      “Confused? You will be!”

    2. DerekM says:

      Lol that has got to win numpty of the year so far.

    3. jimnarlene says:

      An absolutely useless party, no opposition, no imagination and no consistency at all apart from being consistently piss poor.

    4. Dr Jim says:

      Labour want a second ref if the people want a second ref but if the people don’t want a second ref then Labour don’t want a second ref if only they can keep this up till Christmas time when everybody feels better then nobody’ll care one way or another about a second ref

      Or is it a confirmatory vote because that’s entirely different

      Maybe

    5. CmonIndy says:

      Andrew Marr tortured Corbyn, Cable and Ummuna. He had a problem doing that with Ms Sturgeon.

    6. Sandy says:

      Hand me the stupid stick please.
      I need to beat myself with it till this makes sense.

      Do these labour types attend classes on how to talk such mince ?

    7. call me dave says:

      She just moved some words round until she formed a sentence or something to get through the interview eh! 🙂

      Here’s a funny thing though.

      LESLEY LAIRD = SILLY LEADER Honest.

    8. McDuff says:

      It would be funny if it wasn’t so scarey.

    9. Donald anderson says:

      Watched Corbyn the prevaricator on the Marr ENC show and he was as clear as mud. He is in the wrong place at the wrong time. He is s fud.

    10. Hamish100 says:

      Why with BBC show Brewer interviewed a Tory labour at length but not the snp. Did he assume that the FM was on Marr then that’s enough for today folks?

      There is a EU election on Thursday why did Tories and labour get preferential treatment again.

      Incidentally the Tory on from the NE. – surely he isn’t that slimy all the time.

    11. Clootie says:

      It reminds me of one of those online waffle generators! OR the Billy Connoly line “the more you do the less the better”

      Meantime Farage is locked on to a simple coarse message that appeals to base values. I have little doubt which message is cutting through in England. However it highlights that values are diverging in this disunited land and WHY we need to take a different path before the impact of Farage/Johnson delivers the nightmare “Americanisation” of our lives.

      Meantime Scottish Labour, the LibDems and Tories will accept that World to protect their Union!!!
      No matter how bad the future outlook Unionists are determined that we are Better Together.
      It appears we are locked into a suicide pact cult.

    12. Robert Louis says:

      This, however is the problem Labour has, and it is all its own fault. Once the referendum result came in, it was abundantly clear that very nearly half the voters did not want brexit – and Scotland and N.Ireland both definitely didn’t want it. In the months thereafter, it became very clear that people had been repeatedly lied to about brexit. That is the point, that as ‘Her Majesty’s official opposition’, Labour should have stood up for those with concerns about the lies and who did not want brexit.

      But Labour didn’t, because their leader is an EU-hating. immigration -hating clown. A clown it must be said, who is of an age, that he will likely not be around to suffer the full consequences of brexit. He isn’t looking for work, he isn’t trying to find a new start in a EU country, he is not an NHS manager desperate for staff, yet forced to pay expensive recruitment agencies in the very far flung corners of the world. And he certainly does have a rather tasty, gold-plated, fully funded pension. Jeremy Corbyn won’t suffer.

      Instead, Labour adopted the utterly ridiculous policy of exactly the same kind of brexit as the Tories were offering, except they added a tagline ‘jobs first’ brexit. Which is possibly the most vacuous meaningless drivel in the history of politics.

      So now in the EU elections, they are trying to deliberately mislead, by simultaneously saying they oppose a Tory brexit, whilst honouring the referendum result. They are in fact trying to be anti brexit (to appeal to such voters) and PRO brexit (to appeal to those voters). In short they are lying to everyone. Labour is pro brexit, their leader Jeremy Corbyn voted against the EEC (the precursor to the EU) in the first place. He has always opposed the EU.

      Vote Tory – get brexit

      Vote Labour – get brexit

      Greens and Libdems have too low a vote share to succeed in Scotland, so a vote for them is effectively wasted.

      Let Westminster know how utterly p*ssed off Scotland is, and vote SNP on Thursday (even if you don’t like them or normally vote green/libdem). This is not an ordinary EU election. Only that will tell London how Scotland really thinks.

    13. Clootie says:

      I hate to say this but the Brexit Party is polling high in Scotland and looks to be easily beating the Greens. The best opposition case is to vote for the SNP

    14. Scottish Steve says:

      And Labour are wondering why their voters are abandoning them for the staunchly pro-EU Liberal Democrats.

      Much as I detest the Brexit Party and the chancers that run it, maybe this EU election will give the two main parties the kick up the backside they both need.

    15. Hamish100 says:

      Brexit Tories = Tories Brexit

      They are the same. Obnoxious.

    16. galamcennalath says:

      Clootie says:

      I hate to say this but the Brexit Party is polling high in Scotland

      Scottish Steve says:

      Much as I detest the Brexit Party and the chancers that run it

      They will certainly take one of the six seats, I hope it won’t be two. But it is the hardcore BritNat element they appeal to and in a Scottish context that’s ~30% absolute max. If Brexit Party get two, then the Tories will probably get none.

      The biggest threat and opportunity for Indy comes from the middle ground – soft NOs, Remain NOs, many legacy Labour voters, those who could still be swayed by a Vow – these folks are not fundamentally opposed to Indy, but need some further persuasion to cross over.

      IMO Brexit politicians replacing Tory (and Labour) ones, may help with that persuasion process.

      As I said previously, 4 pro EU and 2 anti EU would be an outcome which reflects Scotland view. If the two winners are les palatable to the majority of Scots, that is not necessarily bad in wider picture.

    17. Tory Gammon Colin Clark, Conservative and Unionist MP for Gordon, was threatening his Great British Prime Minister that he will not vote for her deal if he does not concur with it,

      surprising to see such a confirmed Tory Gammon willing to defy his party.

    18. Welsh Sion says:

      Donald Anderson @ 12.58 pm.

      He [Corbyn] is in the wrong place at the wrong time.

      ____

      Could he ever be in the right place and the right time? (Although I agree with you – he is a fud.

    19. Effijy says:

      I couldn’t believe that woman would be allowed out on her own to represent a political party.

      Is she regarded as the second best Labour has in its North Accounting Unit.

      I wondered if she was a spare from the Jeremy Kyle show production team.

      Hope the Beeb sent home in a taxi as I don’t think she could decide on which bus to get on.

      She and that Dick Leonard must have an IQ equal to Charlie Corolla’s shoe size.

    20. Welsh Sion says:

      ok, so the Brexit Party is still far too high, but look who is in 2nd place …

      https://nation.cymru/news/plaid-cymru-overtake-labour-in-yougov-eu-poll/

    21. Orri says:

      It’s not as confusing as it seems.

      1) Labour do not support a referendum that has Remain as an option.
      2) They, themselves, don’t support no deal.
      3) However they want a referendum on any deal.

      Remember, Cameron didn’t support Leave. Labour are setting the scene for a no deal Brexit they can wash their hands off. Which means that whilst they might not support one they don’t seem to oppose it either.

    22. Bobp says:

      I suppose if they talk enough sh**e some of it will stick.

    23. Abulhaq says:

      Support for the Faragisti may well be due to the expat English element in the population.
      Although some England born are sympathetic or even actively supportive of independence the majority are pro Union. Many English abroad do tend to the national chauvinism of the Daily Mail variety. The older the worse the tendency. Whether in North Wales, Perthshire, Chiantishire or the Costa del Sol the ‘type’ will out.
      In addition to young immigrants to boost the declining population or encouraging members of the Scottish diaspora to return, Scots really do need to start having babies.

    24. Effijy says:

      Just noticed that woman is in Gordon Brown’s old constituency!
      She picks up 256 votes more than the SNP Candidate?

      FFS I take it the Fifers have no idea of the pack of lies he told them
      At Indy Ref 1. No NHS, No Transplant waiting list, No Blood Transfusion service
      And No pensions in an independent Scotland.

      He knew perfectly well all of these were a guarantee.
      He showed his true colours ripping apart pensioner Gillian Duffy
      When he thought his microphone was switched off.

      You have idea how pleased I am that anonymous donors stuck £3 million
      Into his charity were he spent son himself travelling in abject luxury around the
      Globe explaining how good he is.

      I understand that he made £1 Million last year so he is still doing his bit to ensure he and Tony
      Continue the extending gap between rich and the working classes.

      With Fife puting Wee Willie Rennie in office too, I demand health checks on the water supply up there and larger padlocks on Nursing Home Doors.

      Good God Truthless Harrison is a product of Fife!.
      How much are those walls Trump talks about? lol

    25. Clapper57 says:

      Labour and the Tories have enabled the Brexit Party to rise to prominence among leave voters.

      Laird is, like Corbyn, spinning truth and mixed messages in order to appease both leave and remain voters. This is obviously not a winning strategy but for some reason they are continuing to adopt this strategy even though the polls show it is clearly not connecting or translating into votes.

      People on this site will however know that this is what Labour ALWAYS do…they try to be all things to all people by NOT walking a straight path but instead veer towards the direction that they think public opinion is going. There is no united principles or policies that bind them together. Like the Tories they are split and the internal fighting within their parties restrain and prevent them from giving a clear message as to what their position is on Brexit….and other policies.

      This is why they hate the SNP because pre and post referendum their message has always been clear…they campaigned to remain in the EU pre referendum and maintained that position post referendum. While both the Labour and Tory party have members who campaigned and voted for remain yet now…….because of ‘democracy’…say they respect the vote to leave and thus will endorse it.

      If you, as a Tory or Labour MP, campaigned and voted for remain via EU Ref but now …because of ‘democracy’ accept leaving the EU….then you need to explain now what has changed . Democracy does not negate all of the arguments you once made for remaining….surely. So voters who also campaigned and voted remain now feel that you, those former remain MP’s, are asking them, the voters, to make the best of a bad job. To quote a phrase ‘Nothing has changed..nothing has changed’…if pre referendum it was a bad and mad policy for the UKOK to leave the EU then a ‘democratic’ vote does not CHANGE that fact….and there’s the rub for your flawed argument and fake change of heart….and the true remain voters can identify that…they see it for what it is……shite served up on red and blue platters.

      What is clear is that both of your parties have surrendered to the Farage mob mentality in order to try and achieve/retain power and win votes thus you enable his party to make gains at your expense….while the SNP who have been constant in their anti Brexit message make political gains because unlike you, i.e. the Tory and Labour parties, the voters at least know what they, the SNP, represent and what their position is on the EU…..”simples”….is it not.

      Perhaps it is also worth noting that both the Tory and Labour party in ‘respecting the EU result’ have become more pro Brexit largely due to their respective leaders TRUE Europhobic sentiments, which has resulted in legitimising facist self serving twats like Batten and Farage to be seen as credible options that leave voters can trust and vote for…..well done because it is both of your parties that have not only “broken politics” but will also….. break up your own country that is UKOK…..and for that I thank you for tis the only light at the end of this dark Brexshit tunnel for Scotland……IndyRef2.

      Don’t even get me started on the Lib Dems…..the scavenger party…cause who is surprised that they are feeding off the remains…..pun intended…….same old same old.

    26. bjsalba says:

      Interesting
      https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-arron-banks-eu-authorities-investigation-gifts-tycoon-a8918946.html

      I wonder how steep the fine can get and if they will look into where the donor got his cash.

    27. Hamish100 says:

      Who said Scotland needs more babies?
      Commentary
      There were 4,016 births registered in April 2019, 8.1% per cent less than the average of the previous five Aprils.
      There were 4,666 deaths registered in April 2019, a increase of 1.8% compared to the average of the previous five Aprils

      ok we need to wait for a while. My wife has said no chance.

    28. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Clapper57 say….”While both the Labour and Tory party have members who campaigned and voted for remain yet now…….because of ‘democracy’…say they respect the vote to leave and thus will endorse it.”

      There was a Referendum, the vote was LEAVE, surely in a democracy it should be beholding on at least the Government MP’s to actively facilitate LEAVING and the opposition MP’s to accept the verdict of the people?

      The SNP MP’s can be excused(by nationalists) for not playing ball because Scotland did not vote LEAVE and the DUP could be as well but for them being em err Unionists – but the rest will be punished severally for their sins.

      Which means the Brexit Party will get a large Share of the vote…And we will all be out of Europe in jig time, with ten times as few i’s dotted and t’s crossed than there should have been.

      Not because the pro-Brexit Englanders and Scottish Unionist supporters are a bunch of neo-nazis but because of the petulant anti-democratic antics of the self-proclaimed anti-fascist, remaniacs.

    29. galamcennalath says:

      Labour have screwed up over Brexit. Despite propaganda implying otherwise, a majority of their voters were Remain. A majority of Tories were Leave. There was a clear differentiation but Labour swithered then came down on ‘wrong’ side.

      They should have followed the same line as the SNP (who also have a sizeable Leave minority among supporters). Labour should been fundamentally anti Brexit but perhaps willing to compromise on a CU+SM solution. Brexit could have been branded as being owned by the Tories and the result of EURef should have been challenged as the illegalities became know. They blew it. They will now pay the price, like their Tory chums.

      Having said that, I have always wondered if the SNP’s compromise on a CU+SM solution was just a ruse to appear reasonable. On the one hand a genuine offer to compromise, but on the other had made in the knowledge that it would never actually happen!

    30. Roland Smith says:

      Worth a look at this when thinking whether to vote SNP or Green, based on most recent large poll.

      https://www.bestforbritain.org/vote2?region=Scotland

    31. galamcennalath says:

      Roland Smith says:

      based on most recent large poll

      That might be a subset of the very big UK YouGov one. The subset was about 600 but won’t be properly waited. There is another Scotland only one, weighted properly, referred to in the previous article. It puts the Greens in a much weaker position.

      We will know the truth next week!

    32. Ken500 says:

      Colin Clark is another arrogant. Ignorant millionaire farmer. Getting £Millions out of the EU Cap. Just another hypocrite.

      Overcrowded schools, no rehab, essential funding.

      The Tory/Libdem council
      Now even SNP Group members

      The Council sits in a £Billion HQ

      The SNP Alex were going to sell it build a community HQ and fund schools etc

      The SNP built the AWPR after forty years of useless unionists. £Billions of oil revenues went to Westminster. Tories high taxes on Oil & Gas led to a downturn. More had to be imported. Putting up the UK deficit. Losing Scotland £Billions

    33. geeo says:

      The Blimp @3.43pm.

      Dribbled like a true anti Scottish democracy, British Nationalist.

      Scotland is legally an EQUAL Union partner nation.

      For any Ukexit to be legitimate as a ‘uk wide vote’ (which it never could be) then Scots would have to give away their sovereignty.

      Problem with that is, the bit that starts with “as long as there are 100 of us left alive. .”

      No uk wide vote is possible AND being in a LEGALLY EQUAL union with England.

      It makes no odds how WM acts re: the union, it is legally a biparate union of just 2 signatory kingdoms.

      The Kingdom of Scotland.

      The Kingdom of England.

      That is not, as you put it, “petulant anti-democratic antics of the self-proclaimed anti-fascist, remaniacs” but Scots defending their EXPRESSED SOVEREIGN WILL on the matter.

      Looks like we can add constitutional history to the list of stuff you do not understand.

      Fooling nobody.

    34. geeo says:

      Roland Smith@ 3.45pm

      I would always be wary of a poll which calls itself “Best for Britain” and thinks Scotland is a REGION.

    35. galamcennalath says:

      Ken500 says:

      Getting £Millions out of the EU Cap

      Not in any one year, but it will have added up 🙂

      http://cap-payments.defra.gov.uk

      On that subject … Post Brexit the Tories will not be paying out a replacement subsidy for CAP. For big farmers, tough. For smaller Scottish hill farmers and crofters, CAP currently keeps them afloat. It is what makes small family farms and crofts viable. It could be a disaster for the Highlands and Islands.

    36. Frank Gillougley says:

      For clarity and the Labour Party, you really only have to have a gander at any Escher drawing.

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativity_(M._C._Escher)#/media/File%3AEscher's_Relativity.jpg

      It’ll save on needless words.

    37. galamcennalath says:

      Still no Robert Peffers. Is he ok? Anyone know?

    38. robertknight says:

      Labour.

      If nothing else, consistently inconsistent.

    39. Clapper57 says:

      @Col.Blimp @ 3.43pm

      “because of the petulant anti-democratic antics of the self-proclaimed anti-fascist, remaniacs”.

      Petulant you say….Leave and Leaving in uppercase in your above post…Okay..over egged the emphasis on both in your response…tad petulant of you ……note also btw the other petulant mistake you made ….it is remainers not remaniacs….your welcome.

      “Democracy” ….okay….if you think it is so…however I beg to differ….. as is my democratic right…on here at least….. where as in UKOK not so much.

      I know another Colonel that would agree with you….she rides a tank…and no that is not an attempt by me at a double entendre.

      Have a good day and don’t call again….oooh who’s being petulant now….two can play at your game… Lol.

    40. Effijy says:

      Cols Blimp & Truthless,

      In this current would be 1984 Britnat Society,
      It seems that Lies, no matter how deliberate,
      How large or how many are used to make a judgement
      Call on Scotland’s future, we are expected to discount the lies
      And continue on the wrong course.

      If a group of people advised you of a shortcut on your journey by jumping over a
      6 foot wall were a grassy meadow awaits your landing and you get to the top
      Of the wall and see the reality of a 50 foot drop on to rugged rocks,you don’t jump
      And you never trust the B*******’s ever again!

      Again if England gave a 100% vote to building a wall around the UK coastline never to let
      People or products in or out, I really don’t give a damn what England wants when it is to the
      Detriment of me and my country, which is Scotland.

      I don’t want to be imprisobed by a lying neighbour who thinks they can get away with anything because they are bigger than me and have a fascist outlook.

    41. twathater says:

      I watched both marr and the brewers droop shows and it just confirmed AGAIN how liebour are infested with brain dead morons , they have went right through the proverbial barrel and are now scraping the mud underneath for creepy crawlies to elect as reps , to the people who voted for laird , WTAF were you thinking

      ————————————–

      Scot F @1.40pm the gammon Colin Clark was not threatening his illustrious leader ( as if he had the balls ) I know you know this , he was doing the usual avoidance procrastination to infer possible rebellion when we all know he has the spine of a jellyfish , he and his faux Scot tories are fodder and have zero , nada , zilch say in mummy’s decisions
      His condescension towards brewer was palpable but the twat thinks it’s statesmanlike

    42. geeo says:

      galamcennalath says: re: robert peffers

      He went into ‘lurker mode’ after being fed up being constantly attacked by people for posting our constitutional history.

      He pops in occassionally to make points now and again though not seen any for few days now.

      If lurking, let us know you are still ok, health wise, Robert.

    43. yesindyref2 says:

      From the Herald (Paul Hutcheon): “SCOTTISH Labour’s lead candidate for the European elections has directly criticised Jeremy Corbyn by saying his policy on Brexit is confused and costing the party votes. ”

      Well, according to that poll, Labour in Scotland would get 16% which would mean 1 MEP – David Martin – one of the 6 who took the A50 revocation case to the ECJ. He’s also a member of the S&D – Group of the Progressive Alliance of Socialists and Democrats in the EP with 189 MEPs before the election. So that would be a good result – with 4 SNP MEPs which is possible if

      YOU ALL GET OUT AND VOTE ON THURSDAY!

      Just one X against the one SNP entry on the ballot sheet, which lists all 6 SNP candidates for the 6 MEP positions. My postal vote is already posted and locked in the safe at NAC.

    44. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Clapper57 @ 14:59,

      You have it dead right there. By pathetic attempts at triangulation, as Labour have been attempting, all you achieve is to validate the Leaver case in the minds of the public. Why vote for a pretender when you can vote for the real fake?

      I wonder what all those youthful hopefuls think now that their hero is revealed to be a duplicitous prevaricating incompetent? But it’s better to get your disappointment in early, and move on to something more trustworthy and capable that promises to actually achieve something worthwhile. (And I don’t mean the FibDems.)

      But Labour are not having the worst of it by any means. They may be in headless chicken mode, but Brexit is causing the Tories to tear themselves apart.

      Karma.

    45. Bobp says:

      Abulhaq 2.41pm .your opening yourself up there for a lot of name calling . But I don’t disagree with you,every man and his dog know it’s the truth.

    46. MacadamiaNut says:

      There is not much to say about Farage and Brexit that hasn’t already been said. So its a bulleted list (minus the bullets)

      There’s the obvious…

      Cameron monumentally screwed up and allowed a Referendum that was ‘not fit for purpose’. It was never going to be a robust, democratic process

      But who cared? Farage, UKIP and the far right certainly didn’t.

      Careerist Tories, hoping to move up in the party and seeking grandee approbation, got behind the Brexit campaign with twisted facts and half-truths, using populist politics to incite the mobs.

      Derelict seaside towns in the South were always a good source of racial and xenophobic fodder from UKIP days.

      Trumpism and Faragism are two cheeks of the same arse. Right wing, masquerading as working-class heroes.

      May was never going to be smart enough, sufficiently credible, respected or statesman like, to pull off Brexit.

      There’s the absurd…

      The UK major parties had, still have, grossly ineffective Leaders, during one of the most difficult political, economic and cultural situations.

      May was Channelling Thatcher and got an ‘Angry Neil Kinnock with a touch of Bot’

      Corbyn channelled Mao Tse-tung and got Cat Weasel, mostly on a fence, with a touch of green fingers.

      Boris, Gove, Leadsome, Grayling, Hunt et al. All loathsome, third-rate politicians who don’t care about people, crowding the Tories.

      The Tories saved 4Billion in Welfare cuts and squandered 22Billion selling back the banks at an early discount.

      Farage is a man who has traits and values that make normal people cringe, including smarmy, smug, unctuous, supercilious and lack of integrity, voted for by people who read the Daily Mail and are generally as dull as ditch water.

      Farage ‘worked’ in the EU for decades. Took the salary, rarely attended. He was insulting and rude, bordering on racism and bullying on some of his EU exchanges.

      Ruth Davidson in Scotland is a one trick pony, only hyped by the media and Westminster, because that trick is ‘No surrender’ against ‘Sturgeonism’.

      Fishing communities in Scotland believe that Westminster won’t sell them out a second time as expendable (Like Heath did in 1970) after or during Brexit.

      There’s the deception…

      That Brexit is good for the ordinary family

      That the Referendum is only about the UK, and how Scotland, Wales or NI voted, doesn’t matter.

      That there are a multitude of alternative trade deals outside of and better than what we have in the EU.

      That the Remain vote has not increased dramatically in the last three years.

      That Brexit means Brexit. And that’s democracy.

      BBC being ‘directed’ from high up in the Establishment to support the United Kingdom.

      There’s the Extreme-Right Evolution…

      The rise of the mammals came only after the dinosaurs were dying. Brexit party is filling the Labour-Tory extinction gap, using Brexit as a catalyst.

      Populist politics needs no truth, just inciting, tribal rhetoric around basic survival needs.

      Farage and Brexit Party visit Scotland to try to spin the idea that Scotland’s Remain majority is not significant.

      Farage and Brexit deliberately conflate the Scottish Remain majority with the percentage of Brexiters in England.

      Farage seeks to bring Scottish Politics in line with his hate politics in the South.

      There’s the manipulation…

      May and Corbyn posturing, blustering and yet colluding, because the both want Brexit. One, because it’s her last chance saloon to salvage some reputation. The other, because his visions of radical socialism would be moderated by the EU.

      Farage lavishly remunerated and receiving ‘benefits in kind’ to do Bank’s bidding.

      Brexit Party bankrolled and funded similarly.

      Brexit Party is simply UKIP rebranded.

      UK Establishment currently wondering whether exposing Farage’s and Brexit Party’s funding sins, might expose some top Tories, or might make Farage a Martyr. Is it worth the risk to instruct the Inland Revenue and MEP standards committee to investigate Farage’s financials? Now or after the elections? Or is leaking sufficient?

      There’s the future…

      A ‘no-deal’ Brexit will guarantee riots and social unrest, but worse, generations of anger and mistrust. And a split in society never seen before.

      A ‘normal’ Brexit after such a dysfunctional referendum and process, ditto above

      Remain will guarantee extremist far-right, civil disobedience and guerrilla politics. And further incitement of populist ideologies.

      A second Referendum… Implemented, with reference and respect to civic responsibilities, with independents, fact checks and citizens committees, is the only solution, it will deaden the pain on both sides, although the eventually loser will still feel phantom pains of an amputated limb.

      Brexit will happen. Farage saboteur MEPs will guarantee turmoil and destruction in the EU. The EU no longer wants the UK in its current form.

      There’s the United Kingdom…

      The United Kingdom is dead. Assassinated by the Brexit assertion that any country has the right to self-governance. And destroyed by the stark relief of the political and social differences between England and the other countries.

      Westminster Politicians’ incompetence is writ large on the back of the Brexit process. Westminster Incompetence 1977 – 2019 is an epic bestseller waiting to be written.

      England’s success has become its demise. It got overpopulated and the gap between the rich and the poor is a gut wrench for the ordinary (wo)man on an average salary.

      England has final woken to the lecherous London economy that sucks resources from the hinterlands and f*cks their growth.

      There’s Scottish Independence (Scexit)…

      The Scottish National Party should rebrand as Scottish Sovereignty Party and avoid accusations of similarity to UKIP, BNP, Brexit or National Front lookalikes.

      The Second Referendum in Scotland should include the question, “Should Scotland remain in the EU when England leaves?” (Now IS the time.)

      The main question should not be about becoming independent, it should be about “Resuming control of our own affairs” and “working with rUK and EU as equal partner(s)”. (To fix this f%%king mess)

      Scotland are NOT dependent, we are equal partners, so we should not be seeking independence.

      Of any country in the world, Scotland has a Prima Facie case for exiting the UK, more so than the UK exiting the EU.

      Scotland is already a country with separate laws, borders, religion and culture.

      United Nations definition of the rights of people to govern themselves, could have been written for Scotland in mind.

      Like Brexit, Scottish Independence will happen. As will English and Irish.

      The above lists are not exhaustive…
      Feel free to add.

    47. Mac says:

      There is not much to say about Farage and Brexit that hasn’t already been said. So its a bulleted list (minus the bullets since I couldn’t get to function 🙂 )

      There’s the obvious…

      Cameron monumentally screwed up and allowed a Referendum that was ‘not fit for purpose’. It was never going to be a robust, democratic process

      But who cared? Farage, UKIP and the far right certainly didn’t.

      Careerist Tories, hoping to move up in the party and seeking grandee approbation, got behind the Brexit campaign with twisted facts and half-truths, using populist politics to incite the mobs.

      Derelict seaside towns in the South were always a good source of racial and xenophobic fodder from UKIP days.

      Trumpism and Faragism are two cheeks of the same arse. Right wing, masquerading as working-class heroes.

      May was never going to be smart enough, sufficiently credible, respected or statesman like, to pull off Brexit.

      There’s the absurd…

      The UK major parties had, still have, grossly ineffective Leaders, during one of the most difficult political, economic and cultural situations.

      May was Channelling Thatcher and got an ‘Angry Neil Kinnock with a touch of Bot’

      Corbyn channelled Mao Tse-tung and got Cat Weasel, mostly on a fence, with a touch of green fingers.

      Boris, Gove, Leadsome, Grayling, Hunt et al. All loathsome, third-rate politicians who don’t care about people, crowding the Tories.

      The Tories saved 4Billion in Welfare cuts and squandered 22Billion selling back the banks at an early discount.

      Farage is a man who has traits and values that make normal people cringe, including smarmy, smug, unctuous, supercilious and lack of integrity, voted for by people who read the Daily Mail and are generally as dull as ditch water.

      Farage ‘worked’ in the EU for decades. Took the salary, rarely attended. He was insulting and rude, bordering on racism and bullying on some of his EU exchanges.

      Ruth Davidson in Scotland is a one trick pony, only hyped by the media and Westminster, because that trick is ‘No surrender’ against ‘Sturgeonism’.

      Fishing communities in Scotland believe that Westminster won’t sell them out a second time as expendable (Like Heath did in 1970) after or during Brexit.

      There’s the deception…

      That Brexit is good for the ordinary family

      That the Referendum is only about the UK, and how Scotland, Wales or NI voted, doesn’t matter.

      That there are a multitude of alternative trade deals outside of and better than what we have in the EU.

      That the Remain vote has not increased dramatically in the last three years.

      That Brexit means Brexit. And that’s democracy.

      BBC being ‘directed’ from high up in the Establishment to support the United Kingdom.

      There’s the Extreme-Right Evolution…

      The rise of the mammals came only after the dinosaurs were dying. Brexit party is filling the Labour-Tory extinction gap, using Brexit as a catalyst.

      Populist politics needs no truth, just inciting, tribal rhetoric around basic survival needs.

      Farage and Brexit Party visit Scotland to try to spin the idea that Scotland’s Remain majority is not significant.

      Farage and Brexit deliberately conflate the Scottish Remain majority with the percentage of Brexiters in England.

      Farage seeks to bring Scottish Politics in line with his hate politics in the South.

      There’s the manipulation…

      May and Corbyn posturing, blustering and yet colluding, because the both want Brexit. One, because it’s her last chance saloon to salvage some reputation. The other, because his visions of radical socialism would be moderated by the EU.

      Farage lavishly remunerated and receiving ‘benefits in kind’ to do Bank’s bidding.

      Brexit Party bankrolled and funded similarly.

      Brexit Party is simply UKIP rebranded.

      UK Establishment currently wondering whether exposing Farage’s and Brexit Party’s funding sins, might expose some top Tories, or might make Farage a Martyr. Is it worth the risk to instruct the Inland Revenue and MEP standards committee to investigate Farage’s financials? Now or after the elections? Or is leaking sufficient?

      There’s the future…

      A ‘no-deal’ Brexit will guarantee riots and social unrest, but worse, generations of anger and mistrust. And a split in society never seen before.

      A ‘normal’ Brexit after such a dysfunctional referendum and process, ditto above

      Remain will guarantee extremist far-right, civil disobedience and guerrilla politics. And further incitement of populist ideologies.

      A second Referendum… Implemented, with reference and respect to civic responsibilities, with independents, fact checks and citizens committees, is the only solution, it will deaden the pain on both sides, although the eventually loser will still feel phantom pains of an amputated limb.

      Brexit will happen. Farage saboteur MEPs will guarantee turmoil and destruction in the EU. The EU no longer wants the UK in its current form.

      There’s the United Kingdom…

      The United Kingdom is dead. Assassinated by the Brexit assertion that any country has the right to self-governance. And destroyed by the stark relief of the political and social differences between England and the other countries.

      Westminster Politicians’ incompetence is writ large on the back of the Brexit process. Westminster Incompetence 1977 – 2019 is an epic bestseller waiting to be written.

      England’s success has become its demise. It got overpopulated and the gap between the rich and the poor is a gut wrench for the ordinary (wo)man on an average salary.

      England has final woken to the lecherous London economy that sucks resources from the hinterlands and f*cks their growth.

      There’s Scottish Independence (Scexit)…

      The Scottish National Party should rebrand as Scottish Sovereignty Party and avoid accusations of similarity to UKIP, BNP, Brexit or National Front lookalikes.

      The Second Referendum in Scotland should include the question, “Should Scotland remain in the EU when England leaves?” (Now IS the time.)

      The main question should not be about becoming independent, it should be about “Resuming control of our own affairs” and “working with rUK and EU as equal partner(s)”. (To fix this f%%king mess)

      Scotland are NOT dependent, we are equal partners, so we should not be seeking independence.

      Of any country in the world, Scotland has a Prima Facie case for exiting the UK, more so than the UK exiting the EU.

      Scotland is already a country with separate laws, borders, religion and culture.

      United Nations definition of the rights of people to govern themselves, could have been written for Scotland in mind.

      Like Brexit, Scottish Independence will happen. As will English and Irish.

      The above lists are not exhaustive…
      Feel free to add.

    48. Petra says:

      Labour’s Lesley ”I don’t know – I’m not sure” Laird.

      ‘GE 2017: Shadow Scottish Secretary, Lesley Laird Is Incompetent!’

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vne2N6qz7Nk

      ……………………………….

      Brits, eh Scots actually, taking the titles. Not being broadcast by the BBC of course.

      1. ‘A British (b. Oban) winner in France! John McPhee wins the Moto3 race at Le Mans.’ Note the Saltire on his helmet, not the Unionist Flag.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDEzVzR24i0

      ….

      2. Josh Taylor (b. Edinburgh) claims his first world title. Fifteen fights, fifteen wins. From the Union Flag in the ring to a Saltire appearing at the end of the fight with a little rendition of ‘Flower of Scotland’ from Josh Taylor / supporters.

      ‘FULL FIGHT! Josh Taylor v Ivan Baranchyk.’

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wshtNsDf57A

    49. Mac says:

      O/T

      I was just thinking. Fishermen and Fishing Communities in Scotland should not be angry at the EU. It want the EU who classed them as ‘expendable’ and traded their communities and livelihoods for EU membership.

      No point to be angry at Edward Heath. He has gone and this is another crime that he wont have to answer for.

      But the Fishing communities should be angry at Westminster politics and the Tories. They would be foolish to trust Westminster not to sell them out again, during the Brexit process.

      The best chance for the fishing communities is to have control over our Government. And for that government to be people who know and care about Scotland.

      Just sayin’

    50. Clapper57 says:

      @ Robert J Sutherland @ 4.54pm

      Cheers Robert…Karma indeed…and one wonders why? Oh Why ?

      Wot has gone wrong ? ….scheisse…ze masterplan is unmastering as we type.

      Surely The Ruth Davidson effect, i.e. she… who was so revered by The Rangers fans (hun element), Der media und her comrades doon south….. and who was supposedly generating the ‘bounce’ back for The Tories here in Scotland…surely she can save the Union, The Tories,The planet, The animals, The Birds and The Bees etc etc ..why even the Universe awaits her intervention und salvation.

      In the name o the wee man has it no just started tae kinda bounce aff the Tory pitch and is landing noo oan The Brexit party pitch…temporarily landed oan UKIP pitch but they lost control aff the ball when it bounced away…that’s the problem with bouncing…yae cannae control where it will bounce or who it will bounce tae….in the Brexshit game it disnae look like it’s bouncing back tae Ruth’s party fir noo …see I am channeling my inner petulant child here…………cannae think where I got that fae the day Lol.

      Have a good evening.

    51. Gary45% says:

      Mac@5.24
      Farage is a dickhead , he fronts a long line of dickheads.
      In Scotland, we can spot a dickhead a mile away.
      He will implode the same way as the rest when “fun oot”.
      This year’s ” chip poke wrapper”, history will judge him and his inbred arseholes.
      SIMPLES.
      Confused say “A dickhead who thinks he’s smart, is still a dickhead.”

    52. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Clapper and Geo

      I confess to being both old enough and sufficiently Luddite that I do not associate capitalization with rude shouting but merely used it for emphasis.

      Back in the time when in Central Scotland, the LPiS regularly out-poled the SNP 4/1…I was young and foolish enough to conclude that this was because THE ELECTORATE WERE FUCKING STUPID!

      As you appear to be making the same error…Let me tell you.
      They were not then and they are not now.

      Not one single solitary soul thought that every last penny of the Gross Monies the UK allocated to the EU would end up in the coffers of the NHS.

      Do you actually believe that anyone said that it would?

      Admittedly Remainiacs pounced on the images of the Bus-Poster, before the paste was dry and vigorously refuted a claim that was never made, aided and abetted by most of the media and numerous guests on TV panel shows from politics to comedy. Where it was almost mandatory to deride Farrage ect. despite the absence of any context.

      Yet you think the stupid voters were hoodwinked into voting Leave…I’ll let you in on a real world secret.

      EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT POLITICIANS ON ALL SIDES EXAGGERATE, LIE AND SPREAD FALSE RUMOURS AND INNUENDO TO SUCKER PEOPLE INTO SUPPORTING THEM.

      And that their acolytes wallow in a sea of self-delusion, so they can continue to convince themselves that they are the good guys.

    53. Gary45% says:

      Oh Aye,Well done John in Moto3.
      Nice One.

    54. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      yesindyref2 @ 16:54,

      You can understand the concern that David Martin might well feel for a potential loss even of himself at the top of the Lab list, all due to the sheer incompetence and prevarication of Corbyn & Co. But decent and committed as he is, and far better him than a second Leaver fake, that’s not our concern. (As I’m sure you realise.)

      In a way it would be good if both Cartel lists fail, because that would be a much-needed wake-up call to everyone in Scotland. But not perhaps at any price. Scorched earth is never a great call.

      Anyway, that’s for others to decide. We just have to try to get as many SNP MEPs elected as possible. Three would be great, four would be superb. But it needs everyone, absolutely everyone, to get off their butts on Thursday (or before) and put that cross in the box.

    55. HandandShrimp says:

      Whenever Watson or Starmer look like they are laying down a clear position, Gardiner or someone else comes along and says let me make this clear, this is the case but only opposite or possibly the other way up.

      Labour have mastered believing six impossible things before breakfast.

    56. Clapper57 says:

      @ Col Blimp @ 5.44pm

      Hey Col…..you talking to me ?….you talking to me ?….well you must be cause there’s no one else on here called clapper…though I must admit I do prefer my official name …you know old chap or chapette….that is Clapper57……if you don’t mind and all that…what.

      That aside ….but sorry did I or did I not tell you in my response to your first post to me ( and what I hoped would be your last post to me) …to “do not call again”….which if you want me to spell it out is a request..nay a demand by me to you…that I do not want to have intercourse with you…written intercourse that is Lol…no double entendres here..wink wink nudge nudge….say no more…..please say no more…Lol

      So get off your high horse and drink your milk of (no) kindness and finally I would like to say….what is black and white and hides in a cave………a Zebra with money…..oh and another thing….what is black and white and does NOT ( uppercase over petulant typing …perhaps) hide in a cave……….a Zebra with no money….No need to thank me…..really….your welcome though….though not welcome to respond to me by thanking me……..ya get me ?….Boom !

    57. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Col.Blimp IV @ 17:44,

      Politicians will be politicians because people don’t always welcome the truth, but there comes a time when shady funding from foreign enemies and outrageous pandering to pernicious isolationist distortions perpetrated over decades finally breaks the system. As at least some of those involved deliberately intend. Generally rabid extremists of one kind or another, and lame copyists. The creation of sufficient confusion to uproot people from any solid grounding, in an attempt to re-create the 1930s where they hope to prosper with their blatant lies. If they succeed, we don’t have a democracy worthy of the name any more. That’s not something to be complacent about, as you clearly are. (Or worse.)

      The SNP, whatever its faults may be – perceived or real – is the diametric opposite of that. Its clear aim is to create a stable and prosperous Scotland in which all may thrive.

      And accordingly worthy of our unstinting support at the ballot box.

      Simples really.

    58. mike cassidy says:

      Col Blimp 1V

      You’ll have to up your game if you intend to troll this site.

      Almost as many people who voted leave in the referendum were still believing the bus claim in October 2018.

      Even the guy who ran the leave campaign reckoned belief in it swung the referendum their way.

      http://archive.is/OMa8t

    59. Clapper57 says:

      @ Mike Cassidy @ 6.20pm

      You are so right Mike.

      But does he also believe that the wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round….or is he just another one flying without …Wings ?…pun intended.

      Have a good evening.

    60. Abulhaq says:

      @Bobp 5:04pm
      This from the horses mouth in 2014.
      https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2753400/Revealed-How-half-million-English-voters-living-Scotland-set-block-independence.html
      They ought to know….
      Scotland is becoming the new costa geriatrica,

    61. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      As always, Paul Kavanagh gets to the nub of it:

      https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2019/05/18/fooling-us-once-twice-three-times/

    62. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      I notice on Euronews that the Swiss were voting in a referendum again. As they customarily do, no biggie for them. This one? A vote on gun control, in order to conform with a change in EU legislation. Even though Switzerland isn’t in the EU. A change the citizens wholeheartedly supported. Thereby another notch in their “loss of control”, as Leaver propaganda would have it? =pshaw= Try telling that to the Swiss.

      Maybe we should send Maybot, Corbyncle and the Little Corporal to The Helvetic Republic for a much-needed refresher course in democracy, to remind them that it has to be continually refreshed if it is not to stagnate and wither.

    63. Bobp says:

      Abulhaq 6.30pm. I remember reading about that at the time. We can only hope that enough come on board this time, when they see what a hard brexit alternative austerity will be enforced on us.

    64. CameronB Brodie says:

      I think a background in “particle cosmology” might help in unpicking the temporal logic of this one. 🙂

      https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/~ejchaisson/cosmic_evolution/docs/text/text_part_5.html

    65. Abulhaq says:

      @Bobp 6:47
      I do wonder what is in the expat head. Most are Brexiters, but complain when in eg Spain the government will, after Brexit, stop providing the medical care and the obligatory English interpretors.
      The fact that they are the foreigners comes as a terrible shock. Very sad.

    66. Col.Blimp IV says:

      After many years away from cyber-tomfoolery, I must say how depressing it is to discover that some of the current crop of Cybernats are as viscerally obnoxious as Barron “Red Nose” Foulkes claimed their predecessors were.

      And I certainly don’t recall much in the way of internecine strife
      vitriol being reserved by and large for the uber-unionists who of course usually started or provoked it.

      Don’t recognize many of the Monikers around here, are there SJW control freaks here, who are just wearing a tartan scarf because they think they are backing a winner?

      Or have the Unionists started wearing camouflage, so everyone has to check behind bushes and under beds, least they get ambushed?

      I would have thought that on a Nationalist site folk would spend more time, discussing tactics, exchanging news and views, debating issues and laughing at Unionists. Than spouting bile at suspicious(if you’re paranoid) strangers.

      Rev Stu, Conan the Librarian – help me out here, I’m lost!

    67. galamcennalath says:

      Abulhaq says:

      This from the horses mouth in 2014.

      ” 500,000 English living in Scotland who are set to BLOCK independence “

      A typical Mail exaggeration and inaccuracy.

      There are about half a million rest-of-UK born people in Scotland, not voters. Some will be under 16. And many older folks would have moved here as children.

      From every analysis I’ve seen, it is true that Scots born folks were a tight 50:50, perhaps marginally YES. It WAS voters born outside Scotland who swung it to NO. My view is they do live here and pay taxes here, so sadly we have to accept it.

      That included rest-of-EU who didn’t want to leave the EU. That will change for IR2 and I’m not sure polling companies actually poll these voters.

      As for the rest-of-UK people, Brexit and the shift of England to the right will change some minds. On that vane, the polls suggested a Labour gov next for the UK in 2014. As things turned out we have rampant far right isolationist English Nationalists threatening to take over. Many English folks might now look on Scotland in the EU quite differently.

      I’m optimistic … once campaigning begins …. a comfortable majority, and not just Scots born, will see Indy as the safe and sensible option.

    68. Col.Blimp IV says:

      mike cassidy

      As it Happens, I don’t subscribe to the online version of the Independent Newspaper, so your link directed me to the subscriptions page.

      I’m afraid if you don’t want folks to think you are some kind of mountebank…you will have to copy and paste the whole article.

      That is of course, assuming it exists.

    69. galamcennalath says:

      Abulhaq says:

      I do wonder what is in the expat head

      My mother had a life long friend who moved to Spain when she became widowed. My wife and I used to go a stay with her fairly often. She learned Spanish and Catalan. She had lots of local friends. She was invited to weddings and celebrations and was clearly thought well of.

      She hated the other ‘ex-pats’. They were ignorant and arrogant. They moaned endlessly about the way things were done in Spain. Few made much attempt to learn Catalan which was the daily language of their neighbours.

      I suppose the label ‘ex-pat’ says it all. In their minds they aren’t imiimgrants or even temporary guests. Oozing entitlement and exceptionalism.

      Això és l’anglès.

    70. CameronB Brodie says:

      But what if you don’t have a background in quantum mechanics and particle cosmology? Not a problem. 😉

      The logic of the future in quantum theory

      Abstract

      According to quantum mechanics, statements about the future made by sentient beings like us are, in general, neither true nor false; they must satisfy a many-valued logic. I propose that the truth value of such a statement should be identified with the probability that the event it describes will occur.

      After reviewing the history of related ideas in logic, I argue that it gives an understanding of probability which is particularly satisfactory for use in quantum mechanics. I construct a lattice of future-tense propositions, with truth values in the interval [0, 1], and derive logical properties of these truth values given by the usual quantum-mechanical formula for the probability of a history.

      https://arxiv.org/pdf/1409.0755

    71. Fireproofjim says:

      Robert Peffers..
      Missing your contributions.
      Hope you are OK.

    72. yesindyref2 says:

      @RJS
      The beauty of it is since we all have just one vote for the whole of Scotland there are no tactics just vote SNP for both EU and Indy.

    73. A concern troll,

      One common tactic of concern trolls is the “a plague on both your houses” approach, where the concern troll tries to convince people that both sides of the ideological divide are just as bad as each other,

      and so no one can think themselves “correct” but must engage in endless hedging and caveats.

      this preys on a willingness to debate critics and allow dissent,

      everyone wastes time discussing the matter and bending over backwards, so as not to appear intolerant of disagreement, all to the great amusement of the troll.

    74. Scottish Steve says:

      @galamcennalath

      I hope the Brexit Party gets no seats but that’s impossible of course. The anti-EU vote in Scotland has to go to somewhere and the Brexit Party is the obvious choice.

      But I do think 4 pro-EU MEPs and 2 anti-EU MEPs would generally reflect Scotland’s views on the issue. A majority of pro-EU MEPs would send a good signal to Europe that Scotland still wants to be in the club.

      You are right. It’s the soft NOs we need to convince. Forget the hardcore Britnat sector of the population. They’re lost causes and cant be swayed.

    75. Col.Blimp IV says:

      at7:33pm

      God…I think I’m going to need a notepad and pencil to record everyone’s traits, motivations and allegiances.

    76. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Maybee I’ll re-appear as Rufus T. Firefly.

    77. CameronB Brodie says:

      More on how to deal with logical paradoxes.

      Deleting paradoxes with fuzzy logic
      https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/YWtZpAynkxth3KXjN/deleting-paradoxes-with-fuzzy-logic

    78. Petra says:

      ‘Heinz-Christian Strache’s downfall weakens Europe’s far-right.’

      ..”The efforts of Europe’s far-right to forge a united front after this week’s elections will inevitably take a knock from the scandal. Mr Strache was working with Matteo Salvini, Italy’s deputy prime minister, and France’s Marine Le Pen to form a powerful Eurosceptic group in the European Parliament. Ms Le Pen is too extreme for some conservative nationalists, such as Poland’s Law and Justice; the Freedom party must now be equally toxic.”…

      http://www.ft.com/content/540afa5e-7a29-11e9-81d2-f785092ab560

    79. ahundredthidiot says:

      enjoying my nightly catch up read – again – and then there goes the T word.

      I suppose I can’t have everything……

    80. Dan says:

      Abulhaq says at 2:41 pm

      “Scots really do need to start having babies.”

      Hmm, maybe this idea could be incorporated into a fun but necessary dual purpose Indy campaign slogan along the lines of “We Have A Fucking Plan!”.
      Surely people will sign up for that rather than being lumbered with the current UK plan, which is best characterised by a particularly buoyant jobby stuck in a perpetual vortex as it circles the pan.

    81. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Dan @ 20:16:

      Hmm, maybe this idea could be incorporated into a fun but necessary dual purpose Indy campaign slogan along the lines of “We Have A Fucking Plan!”.

      For a moment, Dan, I thought you had definitively cracked it, heh, heh. Then after I had quit laughing, I remembered the pensioners.

      (OK, OK, before anybody complains, maybe there’s still life in some of the old dogs yet! =grin=)

    82. Dan says:

      @Robert J. Sutherland at 8:30 pm

      Aye Robert, I guess when one accounts for the ageing population demographic due to the exodus of young Scots it leaves my concept of a conception plan somewhat flaccid…
      I’m stuck in an area where due to the modern day clearances it may be better to self ID as a deer or rabbit in the hope of getting some action!
      I’ve no offspring and I’m already past the age where I’d be terminated Logan’s Run style, and not sure if my DNA would pass the standards in Gattaca either.
      Last week I even considered hooking up with an extreme Yoon called Jill from the Green Stink Gang thinking any offspring we produced might be pulled back from the extreme end of the Yoonatic fringe.
      It turned out that she is a wee bit too old so the plan failed. May be that other one, is it Effy Dean? might be another contender.

      #takingonefortheteam

    83. Terrycallachan says:

      To Galamcennalath you post at 7.06pm..

      Your figures about how many English Irish welsh people live in Scotland are wrong I suspect you got the figure from the census of 2011.
      Many many more English people now live in Scotland
      Every census since WWll has shown an increase.

      You say that they live here and pay taxes here so sadly we have to accept that they vote against Scottish independence.
      They don’t pay taxes here in Scotland there taxes are collected by England and go to England where they then issue statements showing how much tax came from Scotland.
      A slight difference from what you say but one that needs clarification.
      England control all taxes raised in Scotland by collecting them although they do now give the Scottish parliament a right to a degree to set the rate, the money is collected by England and then allocated to Scotland’s parliament as part of their yearly budget.

      No country in the world will automatically give people from another country automatic entitlement to a vote just because they are resident there , England itself does NOT give automatic entitlement to a vote on grounds of residency.
      It is nationality and citizenship that are the deciding factors.
      England didn’t even give people a vote in the brexit referendum on residency grounds even though it was only an advisory referendum and not actually legally binding.

      So let’s cut the nonsense here about Scotland just having to accept people voting on Scottish independence in any old circumstances it is a travesty of justice that people could vote on Scottish independence if they had only been in Scotland a few days or weeks and lived the rest of their lives elsewhere or were here short term having lived all their lives elsewhere and intended to leave Scotland soon after the referendum with no plan to ever return.
      we need more robust rules about eligibility to vote on Scotland’s future.

      Most of the English people living in Scotland are here to work and will not remain here they will move back to England or move elsewhere at some point it has always been thus, a lot of them are here with HM Forces.

      English people are not going to vote for Scottish independence , their country is England , it’s not scotland they will always vote for what is best for England and keeping control of this whole island is what is best for England especially if the other countries are daft enough to hand over all their money and get pocket money back.
      Many many of the English people working in Scotland would not have the job they have if Scotland was an independent country there is no way any country in the world would allow immigrants from one other single country to become such a high number as to account for an eighth of their whole population.

    84. Marcia says:

      “Scots really do need to start having babies.”

      Give us a rest. 🙂

      The Liberal Democrats look to be behind this website as it tells me to Vote LD on Thursday. No I won’t. It gives a statement that as the SNP will likely get 3 seat I should then vote LD. No, the SNP have to get the votes first. So no.

      https://www.remainvoter.com/

    85. Moonlight says:

      Re we Scots need to have more babies. Well agreed so far as it goes. My two kids benefited from an excellent education, they did well. Then off to uni, no tuition fees and sufficient part time work so not much of a contribution was needed from Dad.
      Result, one PHD in Biological Sciences and one masters in Mechanical Engineering. One now contributing to the wealth of the Australian economy (Oz passport applied for), the other working for a German company in England contributing to those two economies.

      Somewhere along the line Scotland is missing a trick. It’s all very well breeding them, raising and educating them, but what about keeping them?

    86. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      galamcennalath at 7.06

      You are exactly correct.
      Sitting in the Forward Shop on Dunoon’s main street we get a constant strewam of English residents (and there are very many here)coming it to tell us they are supporting indepenence now.

    87. call me dave says:

      James has recovered from his eurovision song contest excursion.

      Initial comment with a wee promise to update it soon.

      http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2019/05/the-dream-dies-for-davidson-as.html

    88. Phronesis says:

      Gaslighting is a form of “psychological manipulation that seeks to sow seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or in members of a targeted group, making them question their own memory, perception, and sanity. Using persistent denial, misdirection, contradiction, and lying, it attempts to destabilise the victim and delegitimize the victim’s belief.”

      Scotland has been gaslighted for generations – Scotland has an opportunity to put WM gas at a peep. Vote SNP -speak up for Scotland, defend its institutions, its democracy, its citizens. Everything else is the Fata Morgana of the protective British State which is now clouded over by the fate of millions living in degraded conditions.

    89. boris says:

      But Ruth Davidson had her problems. The Tory Party in Scotland was still not trusted by Scots and radical change was required if the party’s fortunes were to be improved.

      Ruth consulted with her minder (Dr Adam Tomkins) who advised a root and branch clear out of deadwood Tory wannabes before the 2016 Scottish parliamentary election. The process was duly delivered. Ruth’s “advisers”, hand picked every candidate.

      Not one candidate was ever elected at any time, not even through the party’s internal candidate selection.

      The Scottish Tory party was eliminated. Davidson was ecstatic the party in Scotland was cloned from herself. Its image was her image. They were as one.

      At the 2016 Scottish Elections Davidson’s entire campaign focused on retaining Scotland’s place in the Union.

      There was little mention of Scottish polices since there was little of any merit in their manifesto.

      So a party of clones asked Scots to elect them to office.

      Of the 73 candidates seeking election to Holyrood through the first past the post system 7 Tories were successful.

      A total of 66 Tory candidates were rejected.

      There were 56 List MSP posts available of which 24 were allocated to the Tory party.

      Ruth appointed 24 Tory MSP clones.

      In conclusion there is no Scottish Tory party.

      https://caltonjock.com/2017/04/10/the-tory-party-in-scotland-is-dead-tory-central-office-the-unionist-media-the-bbc-and-ruths-mi5-connections-in-london-created-the-ruth-davidson-appreciation-society-scots-need-to-send-her-home/

    90. Bobp says:

      Moonlight 9.14pm. Scotland will only keep them when Scotland is independent.

    91. Hamish100 says:

      And when Johston leads the Tories and with May gone, Davidson is up the kybhar pass. The Tory north branch drums will be beating already to take over. Can ye here we are the champions in the distance?!!!

    92. CameronB Brodie says:

      re. Lexit.

      Everything you need to know about Lexit in five minutes

      What’s Lexit and why is everything just a series of dreadful portmanteaus now?

      It’s the left-wing case for Brexit.

      The idea there’s a left-wing case for Brexit is… imaginative. Have they seen the smile on Jacob Rees Mogg’s face? He looks like he’s about to be served a seven course dinner.

      Yeah, it’s not a majority view. Most left-wing figures in politics, journalism, academia and trade unionism are very critical of Brexit. But it’s a significant minority view and one that dominates in the Labour leadership. Left-wing attacks of the EU have a long political heritage and include some much-loved figures on the left, like Tony Benn. They’re not without content either. There are some powerful left-wing critiques of the project.

      OK, I’m prepped. I have whisky, cigars and diazepam. Give it to me straight. What are the arguments?

      https://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2017/11/17/everything-you-need-to-know-about-lexit-in-five-minutes

    93. Bobp says:

      They will be encouraged to stay at home with better job prospects. As most jobs wont then be siphoned off to London and the south of England.

    94. CameronB Brodie says:

      Scotland’s historic lack of growth, is a direct effect of government from London. Every other nation in Europe has grown since the establishment of their national Parliament.

      Scotland will only be able to retain its’ population, if the Scottish economy is sufficiently broad-based to provide the sort of opportunities Scots emigrate in order to access. Such an economy is unlikely to be achieved through a ‘pocket-money’ government and a GERS appreciation of macro-economics. Having control over our natural wealth would obviously assist Scotland in achieving a sustainable social balance.

      Unfortunately, British nationalist culture is unconcerned with the liberal concepts of legal equality (see the full-English Brexit). Isn’t that correct, Scottish Law Society?

    95. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Moonlight @ 21:14,

      Aye, it’s a sad auld sang. Everybody around the world valued our sons and daughters more than we did, as we wrung our hands and meekly did as we were telt.

      There’s just one answer, and we all know what it is. It will only be a start, but even great journeys begin with one step.

      And this journey we will do thegither.

    96. chicmac says:

      Nigel Farage is a super hero.

      His special power is to use his faux rage to convert any milk products thrown at him into fromage. Which he then uses to create a mythical Moon, the beguiling logo of his Farangist Party.

      Ignoring the probable past origins of his own name he ironically likes to say ‘Heugonot no dae that.’ to any new immigrants from Europe.

      He wants nothing from Europe aside from a fat salary from the EU Parliament, a German wife and, allegedly, German citizenship for his kids.

      You don’t like his principles? Well he’s got other principles you won’t like either.

    97. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Completely O/T

      I went over to my TV magazine to see when the Scottish football was on. After all there was a crunch couple of matches with Killie and the Dons tightly fighting for third place and Europen football and Celtic looking to win as they got the prize. Of course the playoffs for promotion and relegation were going on across the country yesterday as well.
      THERE IS NO SCOTTISH FOOTBALL ON BBC SCOTLAND TONIGHT.
      BBC is deliberately diminishing Scottish football. It is I believe paying more money to the commentators on its English coverage than it is paying to all of Scottish footabll.

    98. chicmac says:

      DMH

      Scottish clubs are at the bottom of the league for TV money in Europe.

    99. Hamish100 says:

      In fairness Dave STV is as bad.

      Lot to be said for games starting and finishing at the same time.Then watch Sportscene on Sat night, Scotsport on Sunday.

      We are shortchanged by both broadcasters

    100. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Dave McEwan Hill.

      Sportscene on BBC1 (Scotland) at 23.25?

      (‘Scuse me if eh’m wrang – no’ really a footie aficionado.)

    101. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Brian Doonthetoon
      It’s not in the TV magazine I’ve got
      Must have forgotten they are in Scotland

    102. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Hamish100 at 11:11 pm.

      You opined,

      “Lot to be said for games starting and finishing at the same time.Then watch Sportscene on Sat night, Scotsport on Sunday.”

      Yeah, I’m old enough to remember when all games kicked off at 3pm. In Dundee, on Saturdays, we had a newspaper that came out onto the streets after the last edition of “the Tully”, which had all the results and reports of matches played that day. It was “The Sporting Post”. I guess it also had rugby, horse racing, and other sports but I only looked at it for the fitba’.

      You try to tell the kids today and they think you’re crazy.

    103. Molly says:

      CameronB Brodie,

      Came across this earlier re the growth ( or lack of) you were talking about.

      This is one bit from Evonomics.

      “Thus the huge growth in wealth relative to the rest of the economy originates not from savings of income derived from people’s contribution to production( activity that would have created jobs and raised incomes), but rather from windfalls resulting from exclusive control of a scarce natural resource : land.

      Now that gets down to the nitty gritty but possibly one of the biggest underlying reasons why ‘some’ are so resistant to Indy.

      Or put this way, “homes and land underneath them has increased by four times ( or 400%) between 1995 and 2015; from £1.2 trillion to £5.5 trillion,largely due to increase in house prices rather than a change in the volume of dwellings.”

      Same as it ever was…

    104. chicmac says:

      BDT

      By the time you had walked the mile from Muirton Park into Perth town centre the Sporting Post was on sale on the streets with all the results. How they did it I don’t know.

      Used to like reading the Dixon Hawk short whodunnits.

    105. Arthur Thomson says:

      Labour’s position on Brexit reflects their “leader” – it’s fraudulent. The new kinda politics is the same old stuff, put across in subdued tones designed to persuade the listener that they are just not clever enough to comprehend the incomprehensible. Whereas comrade Corbyn, of course …..

      Corbyn has as much insight as May – zero.

      Hopefully, ever increasing numbers of people now realise it.

    106. Dr Jim says:

      Jeremy Corbyn offered part in Game of Thrones as *The many faced man*

    107. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Back in pre-EEC Scotland, I used to sell the “Citizen” around the pubs and Football grounds. There were FOUR editions on a Saturday.

      The first was the normal general Newspaper which went out at lunchtime, the second was more Sports orientated had the half-time scores and early horse racing results.

      Then there was the Full time results edition which had match reports up to half time and had the final scores and more horse racing results, added to a blank section on the back page at the local office. We could hand them out to the fans as they were leaving Brockville or Firs Park.

      Then the Sports Final which had all the full match reports, Racing news and analysis which we took round the pubs between 6:30 and 7:30.

      Of course nobody had smart phones back then, at least not in Scotland as far as I am aware.

    108. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi chicmac at 11:30 pm.

      You typed,
      “Used to like reading the Dixon Hawk short whodunnits.”

      That comment reminded me of something. When I was primary school age, I read many of the “Jennings” books.

      In one of them, an observation was made that all the successful detectives had three syllable names, eg, Sherlock Holmes, Miss Marple, John Rebus, Father Brown, Dirk Gently, Mike Hammer, Nancy Drew, Peter Gunn, Jim Rockford, Charlie Chan, Dick Tracy and, of course, Dixon Hawk. Probably many more but as pointed out in the Jennings book, there had never been a famous detective called “Bill Smithson”.

    109. CameronB Brodie says:

      Molly
      Britain’s economy is being run in to the ground by economically illiterate ideologues who are amplified by the media. Austerity is unnecessary yet layed the ground for the full-English Brexit. Was that an error in judgement or a desired outcome?

      What Brexit and austerity tell us about
      economics, policy and the media.

      In this paper, which formed the basis of my Prize lecture, I want to argue the following:

      1. Only a minority of academic economists ever supported austerity but this fact is almost completely absent in public discussion.

      2. The necessity of austerity was accepted by nearly all the mainstream media (MSM). When the floods came at the end of 2013, to my knowledge no one presented the data showing the extent of cuts in flood defences.

      3. The media’s acceptance of the Conservatives’ narrative on the economy played a critical role in allowing the Conservatives to win the 2015 election.

      4. Treating the near unanimous views of economists as opinion rather than expertise neutralised the economic argument against Brexit.

      5. Political coverage in the broadcast media needs to prick the Westminster bubble and open itself up, letting in academic economic expertise in particular.

      speri.dept.shef.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/SPERI-Paper-36-What-Brexit-and-austerity-tell-us-about-economics-policy-and-the-media.pdf

    110. CameronB Brodie says:

      As I’m a bit of a critical realist, Britain’s media makes me want to weep. The full-English Brexit was achieved through manipulate collective narcissism and a nostalgic imagination of English cultural supremacy. The full-English Brexit is right-wing, authoritarian, populism on stilts, and will not end well, especially for the vunerable.

      Brexit and the imaginary of ‘crisis’: a discourse-conceptual analysis of European news media

      ABSTRACT

      This article explores the discourse-conceptual linkages between ‘Brexit’ and ‘crisis’ in European news media reporting about the UK referendum on leaving the European Union of 23 June 2016. The study examines media discourse about the Brexit vote in Austria, Germany, Poland and Sweden at the transformative moment in between the pre/after vote period.

      The conceptually-oriented critical discourse analysis shows how Brexit was not only constructed as an imaginary or a future crisis but also how its mediated visions were made real by recontextualising elements of various past social/political/economic crises. As is shown, such a strategy of discursively amalgamating the real and the imaginary, as well as the experienced/past and the expected/future, often allowed constructing Brexit as one of the most significant, critical occurrences of post-War Europe.

      Through the analysis, the article aims to show how wide and diverse the importance of ‘Brexit as crisis’ has been for European news media discourse. It also emphasises that while in the UK itself – including huge part of the UK traditional media – the critical nature of Brexit was often strategically downplayed, the wider European discourse would see it as a multifaceted ‘crisis’ of huge significance to both the present and the future of the EU, wider Europe and the world.

      KEYWORDS: Discourse-conceptual analysis, news media, recontextualisation, imaginary, Brexit, crisis

      https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17405904.2019.1592001

    111. CameronB Brodie says:

      I wish I was a better proof-reader.

      Brexit and the Problem of European Disintegration

      Abstract

      The Brexit referendum provokes speculation about the likelihood of European disintegration. This article discusses how scholarship might deal with the issue of disintegration and argues that it should be thought of as an indeterminate process rather than an identifiable outcome.

      Within the EU system, Brexit is likely to unleash disintegrative dynamics, which could see the EU stagnate into a suboptimal institutional equilibrium. At the same time, EU studies needs to lift its gaze beyond the internal dynamics of the EU system to consider the disintegration of the democratic capitalist compact within which European integration has been embedded historically

      http://www.jcer.net/index.php/jcer/article/download/807/602/0

    112. chicmac says:

      BDT

      A wee bit like the three big espionage thriller heroes having the initials JB

      James Bond, Jack Baur, Jason Born

      The Dixon Hawk short that stuck in my mind was the one where the victim was shot through a skylight with a crossbow bolt made of ice. The only clue for those who found the body being a small pool of water.

    113. Scottish football has the highest attendence figures as % of the population than any country in Europe,(by a fair margin)

      maybe less live tv games encourages citizens to actually go to the games.

    114. chicmac says:

      Scot
      The saving grace that keeps total Scottish football income in a better position than it otherwise would be. You might call it the original crowdfunding scheme.

      But for TV money, to give an example, last time I looked, Portugal’s clubs got more in one season than the Scottish clubs got for their 5 season contract. OK Portugal has nearly twice Scotland’s population but still. And that was before Portugal’s EUFA championship win in 2016.

    115. Breeks says:

      OT
      Just come across some extraordinary abuse that Vonny LeClerc from the National is getting. Really nasty stuff, and it seems to have been ongoing for a while.

      “I feel utterly abandoned. A year of this with no help from the police and no response from Instagram. There is a toxic war against women brewing on these platforms. Why is no one taking action?”

      Good question Vonny, This is not acceptable, neither that it happens, nor that the victim is left feeling so abandoned.

      https://mobile.twitter.com/vonny_bravo/status/1129499185894645760

      Anybody have constructive advice? This is criminal abuse in my opinion, and the perpetrator seems sick in the head. Why haven’t the police been able to intervene? Straight question, no accusation. What’s going on???

    116. Ken500 says:

      The sectarianism is so offensive The terraces are empty. Bigots, racists and paedophiles run the Clubs. The punters get ripped off. The ‘successful’ clubs are up to their eyes in debt. A few crooks are making money out of sport. A bunch of chancers. Violence racism and bigotry are nothing about sport. It is a disgrace and unsuccessful. Folk can’t be bothered with it. Not fair game but exploitive.

      Brexit will not happen. It ever could. It would just damage the world economy and make people worse off. This disgusting Brexit carry on will just go on until the Tories are voted out, Labour /unionists are as bad. A total wages of time. All the unionists Parties are criminal crooks. They are appalling people. Just imbeciles. The Brexit carry on is beyond belief. How people can carry on like that is beyond belief. They are just doing it to line their and their associates pockets. They are killing people. Illegal wars, fraud, embezzlement abc tax evasion. People are dying because of it. An international disgrace.

      The Tories and Labour are going down big time. The LibDems caused it and are habitual liars. The Brexiteers are just appalling, ignorant fools. Beyond belief.

      Just keep on voting SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence. To change and save the world, Get one other to vote as well. Job done. Simple, Make Scotland and the world a better place.

    117. Clootie says:

      Interesting watching Remainers in England turning to the LibDems as the answer to Brexit. I cannot think of a more untrustworthy party. However their salvation comes via the measure “not as bad as the others”

      Be the “grey man”. Be all things to all people. Be willing to sell your principles for a ministerial car.
      What a measure of political aspiration “We are not as bad as Boris and Nigel”

      In Scotland my own experience in 2011-2014 period found them to be the most aggressive unionists I encountered throughout the campaign.

      The FibDems are staunch unionists – that is their primary drive. They ignore the reality of the choice between being Eurpeans or in the UK.

      LibDems are not an option if you support Scottish Independence.

      In politics unity is critical and for that reason I will vote SNP at every election. When we have truly independent political parties in an Independent Scotland, I will vote for the one with the best manifesto fit to my values.

    118. Petra says:

      Professor John Robertson:- ‘Another Poll.’

      https://thoughtcontrolscotland.com/2019/05/19/and-another-poll-with-snp-solid-and-brexit-nowhere/

      ……….

      @ Breeks at 7:09am …..”Vonny LeClerk.”

      Absolutely horrendous Breeks and this has been going on for a year now! No help from the Police and of course no mention of this in the Unionist controlled MSM. If this applied to any of their journalists, TV presenters and so on it would be a different story altogether, such as the BBC hooha that we witnessed when Murphy was hit with an egg. She writes for the National of course so that seems to make this acceptable. The Police should get off of their backsides and track this particular person down, ASAP, and the National should report this on their front page, that is if that’s what Vonny wants. On the other hand maybe she doesn’t want to attract even more attention to herself. What a position to find yourself in.

    119. Capella says:

      @ Breeks – Re Vonny Leclerc – I read the thread but it’s not clear whether she has made a formal complaint to the police. She needs to print the tweets off and take them to a police station and say “I want to make a formal complaint.”
      That has to be recorded with a formal case number and she can follow up how that case is progressing.
      There is no doubt the tweets are a threat.

    120. Clootie says:

      I have just read a article about Scottish Labour voters switching to the LibDems for Thursday’s EU election.

      Well Mr. Brodie to you have a paper to explain that one?

    121. Abulhaq says:

      Surely, this was never in doubt Ms Sturgeon?
      https://www.thenational.scot/news/17650531.nicola-sturgeon-could-push-for-indyref2-even-if-uk-remains-in-eu/
      Your legions of supporters expect, so just get on with it.

    122. mr thms says:

      Breeks @ 7:09am

      I am not on Facebook,Twitter or Instagram.

      The full title of the OBFA is the Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications Act and I did wonder what happened to the ‘threatening communications’ part of that act was repealed recently and it seems it too was repealed.

      I had a look online to see if there was another act on threatening communications or a pre-existing one and came across a report which mentions Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003

      This sectiob of the report covers hate crime is very interesting about the subject of online abuse.

      It might help.

      2003ttps://www.gov.scot/publications/independent-review-hate-crime-legislation-scotland-final-report/pages/7/

      Just glanced through it as I am going out but I noticed a bit that light sentencing under that section cannot be changed as it is a reserved power?

    123. Ken500 says:

      Everyone can get abused on the internet. Either don’t go on it. Ignore it! Block it. It is called out. Some of the people how make most complaint are the one’s who give it, Gender is not an issue. People can be equally abused. It people do not like stay off it. Take it with a pinch of salt. Sticks and stones. It does get called out and rebounds.

    124. Capella says:

      Swedish prosecutors file request for Assange’s detention over r**e inquiry https://www.rt.com/news/459764-swedish-prosecutors-file-request-assange/

    125. Socrates MacSporran says:

      One or two posters above reminiscing about the old pink and green football special papers on a Saturday night, and wondering how it was done.

      Back then, each paper had a “stringer” at every game; more often than not the sports reporter from the local weekly paper, or a dedicated freelance journalist. This reporter filed “runners,” match reports written in small segments during the game:

      Teams, referee and a paragraph of intro – filed pre-match.
      Short reports, goals, bookings etc – filed at 20 minutes, and just after the half hour.

      A longer half-time piece, summing-up the first half.
      An update, mid-way through the second
      any further goals etc, filed on 80/85 minutes
      A full-time piece, final score, any late goals.

      With this out of the way, the stringer would then perhaps settle down to do his Sunday paper report (if he was working for more than one paper); then go down to the post-match managers’ press conference for the quotes etc, for the Sunday and Monday pieces.

      All these reports were filed, dictated down a telephone, to the copy takers.

      Today, if the papers are not staffing a game, one guy files for PA, while maybe three or four other guys are tweeting for the club’s twitter feeds (official and unofficial) with longer pieces for the club websites.

      In theory, it should be easier today. In practice, the papers don’t have the finances or manpower to give anything above a basic service – hence the rise of the twitter-sphere.

      Also, radio does it far-faster when it comes to goal flashes etc.

      I started under the old system – by the time you got home on a Saturday night, your head was frazzled.

      I doubt if today’s semi-trained “journalists” could cope with the old hot metal ways of working. Although, due respect to the far-too-few proper sub-editors still working on production shifts these days.

    126. Abulhaq says:

      South China Sea, Huawei, Iran….the US size 12s go forth.
      Why we need a Europe independent of the ‘hemispheric powers’ and why Scotland must be free of Europe’s chief US puppet state.

    127. Ken500 says:

      The LibDems caused Brexit. They allowed Cameron the support to have one. Going into coalition. They got taken for fools and caused austerity. AV Ref failure. No one was interested. A complete and utter failure. 30%? turnout.

      The LibDem caused all this mess and shambles. They are total hypocrites covering up child abuse.

      Clegg, the liar, now works for the tax evaders. What a complete nasty hypocrite.

      No wonder people are angry. A complete and utter unionist shambles. They are a disgrace.

      The Condem liars elected to protect NHS and education. Cut them both. They cut Education £6Billions a year. (£30Billion) NHS cut £4Billion a year. (£20Billion)

      The SNP Scottish Gov had to mitigate all these cuts. The Scottish budget was illegally cut. 10% a year. Now £3Billion. When the Scottish tax revenues have gone up £4Billion a year. From £54Billion to £60Billion.

      UK tax revenues went up £95Billion a year, From £533Billion to £628Billion. There were absolutely no need for these cuts or austerity. It cost more. Killing people.

      The Westminster useless, unionist imbeciles are a disgrace. An international laughing stock. Dangerous people,

    128. Ken500 says:

      The EU stands up against US aggression and tax tariffs protectionism. The EU has to sort out the fall out of the US/UK (France) illegal wars. They have caused the worse migrant crisis since 11WW
      The European countries have to pick up the pieces. Costing £Billions and destroys the world economy causing hardship and death.

    129. Ken500 says:

      People nowadays have more disposable income to spend on other things than certain sports and overpaid madonnas. More variety. Sectarianism in Scotland does not help the sport. It drives away supporters. It is illegal but the Law is not enforced. The Police are to busy putting people in cells overnight on ‘charges’ that can never come to Court. Wasting public monies,

    130. Mike cassidy says:

      Socrates McSporran 8.43

      Where did they get all the phone lines?

    131. TD says:

      I just watched that Lesley Laird interview and the Corbyn interview earlier. Labour’s position is clear all right – they are deliberately obfuscating in an attempt to avoid offending anyone. They must know that their current position is not understood by the electorate. And yet they persist in avoiding any commitment to one position or another. From a cynical electoral perspective, that would be OK if by not clarifying their position they were gaining votes. But they are haemorrhaging support throughout the UK. Who would want to vote Labour? A remainer? A leaver? A Scottish independence supporter? A unionist? Each of these categories of voter has a better alternative than Labour to vote for.

      I keep looking for the clever game plan hidden in Labour’s tactics because I cannot believe that a credible political force could mishandle things so badly. But perhaps that is where I am going wrong – I am assuming that they are a credible political force.

    132. CameronB Brodie says:

      Clootie
      Are you another gormless prick?

    133. CameronB Brodie says:

      Clootie
      You don’t need a graph to understand Scotland does not have the same problem with institutional racism as England does,. Subsequently, the full-English Brexit gets the rubber ear in Scotland. I’ve already provided empirical support for this, if you had bothered to check.

    134. Patrick Roden says:

      Academic Papers are the intellectual property of the author and/or the academic institution (usually university) in which the academic has allowed his paper to be published and shared among students/academics for educational purposes.

      To share these academic papers among people outside of that sphere you would almost always require the permission of the author and the university.

      Should you tell the author that you are not sharing his (hard work) in order to further the studies of other students, but are sharing them in order to further the aims of a political movement, they may decide that:

      1. They do not wish to further the particular movement because they don’t agree with this movements aims.

      2. they do not wish their work to be shared by this political movement because they don’t want their academic work politicized by any organisation.

      3. their may be other reasons they don’t want anyone outside of academia sharing their work.

      This is why anyone sharing links to academic papers on wings, will have ensured that they have written permission from the author/ and or the university before they do so.

      The last thing the Rev needs is having to scroll back over all these past links to delete the academic information, that authors dd not agree could be shared in order to further the aims of Scottish Self determination.

      All gormless pricks should already know this though, Right?

    135. CameronB Brodie says:

      Patrick Roden
      Please can I have permission to exist?

    136. Patrick Roden says:

      @ CBB,

      You already have permission to exist, and certainly don’t require it from me.

      Do you however, have permission from the authors/universities, to share their academic work on Wings?

      It’s Rev who might ‘cop it’, if you don’t.

    137. CameronB Brodie says:

      Patrick Roden
      You make it look as if I’m steeling knowledge, but all the material I’m posting is already in the public domain. What’s your game? It looks like you are trying to indicate I don’t know what I’m talking about, or that I’m working for the other team?

    138. Patrick Roden says:

      @ CBB,

      If you do the only thing Iv’e ever requested from you, namely; take these papers, simplify the content and re-write them into your own words,something that should be easy for an academic, then this ‘issue’ would not arise.

    139. CameronB Brodie says:

      Patrick Roden
      Your having a laugh right? Who am I in comparison to Oxbridge or MIT?

    140. Patrick Roden says:

      @ CBB,

      Academic papers are in the public domain, because they are used by academics to further their studies.

      The authors still have ‘intellectual property rights’ on their own work.

      I do not think you are working for the other side, however this is a good starting point for a discussion, because you will know just how much work goes into creating these academic papers, and so the question I would ask you is one I would also ask myself:

      If you put a lot of work into a paper and had it published by your university, to be used by students to further their studies, but then discovered that ‘The Orange Order’ or ‘Britain First’ or even the ‘Tories’ were using your work to further their own political agenda, would you be happy for this to continue, or would you seek legal advice and have a letter asking them to delete your content from their web-pages and not to use your work for their aims again?

      I know that I would definitely not let any Unionist political group use my work to further their agenda.

      I think you need to contact them and make sure they agree to you sharing their information,

    141. Clootie says:

      @CameronB Brodie

      …it was a joke but I’ve obviously touched a nerve…so I apologise. Since it is our first interaction to my knowledge “gormless prick” seems rather strong.

    142. CameronB Brodie says:

      Clootie
      I apparently took your comment the wrong way, I was just a bit surprised. Sorry, I’m possibly feeling a bit defensive and I wasn’t expect to be attacked from your direction.

    143. Patrick Roden says:

      @CBB,

      You ask ‘who am I compared to Oxbridge or MIT,

      But you are an above average intelligent man, so the question is if you couldn’t hope to compete with these universities, how is the ordinary punters on wings supposed to understand the links you post?

      This was you own field of academic study so, if you don’t understand the papers you share, how will anyone else?

      If you do understand them, simplify them and share these versions with everyone else.

      As I mentioned before, to truly understand any subject, you should be able to simplify enough for almost anyone at any level to be able to comprehend. (The Rubber Duck method)

      Try it, as a clever man, once you get ‘into it’ you will probably enjoy it, far more than you imagine.

    144. CameronB Brodie says:

      Patrick Roden
      Why not take your concern to the site owner?

    145. Patrick Roden says:

      @CBB,

      I’ve only ever saw one poster ‘attack’ you on wings, but your ‘defensiveness’ that usually result in you insulting the other persons lack of intelligence, or such, does you no favours, and in my case, will usually cause the other to strike right back.

      As people who all want the same thing, this is not a good thing, and a waste of energy that we could all put to better use.

    146. CameronB Brodie says:

      Patrick Roden
      That was a bit nippy, sorry. Patrick, I’m amazing myself at what I’ve managed to retain. I’m using what knowledge I have of Communication Theory and post-modern critical social theory, to point folk in the direction of much needed context. I freely admit that anything more than joining the dots is beyond my pay-grade.

    147. Patrick Roden says:

      @CBB,

      If you have permission to share links on wings, there will be no need for me to take any concerns to Rev.

      If you don’t have permission, and since you wouldn’t wish to cause any harm to wings, (surely this must be true?) then you would now want to contact the Universities you have mentioned just to ensure that they are happy for the papers to be shared for the reasons you have previously stated.

      Is this too difficult to understand?

    148. CameronB Brodie says:

      P.S. I’m also very, very rusty.

    149. Patrick Roden says:

      @CBB,

      You have said that the papers you share come from Oxbridge and MIT, so this is only two quick emails you need to fire off,

      That’s not a lot of work.

    150. Patrick Roden says:

      @ CBB,

      You say ” I freely admit that anything more than joining the dots is beyond my pay-grade.”

      Now I know that you are intelligent! and I’m not being flippant.

    151. CameronB Brodie says:

      Patrick Roden
      I contacted the Rev. directly during indyref1, to ask him to remove material I didn’t have permission to use. He didn’t appear to be bothered, my post remained. I am selective of the sources I use.

    152. Patrick Roden says:

      @CBB “I’m also very rusty”

      Yes, we all get rusty if we don’t keep our ‘heads in the books’, but you will still have a far better grasp of how the subject than most on wings, and to be honest, as soon as people see the terminology that goes with the territory of these subjects they will scroll right by your work.

      You can always simplify an easier level, rather than University level and still be a great asset to wings, and ultimately our nations self determination.

    153. Patrick Roden says:

      Ok CBB,

      I need to fly, but I’m glad we had this little discussion as we probably understand each other far better now,

      All the best CBB.

    154. CameronB Brodie says:

      Patrick Roden
      All the best. And I’m not being flippant when I say sorry if I’ve been nippy, as it appears I misjudged your intentions. 😉

    155. Gary says:

      Ahhh…all is clear. It’s NOT a second referendum it’s a ‘confirmatory vote’ That’s VERY different…



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