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Wings Over Scotland

This one’s for Willie

Posted on August 31, 2013 by

We’re just going through some reports from the top-secret “public meeting” of the No campaign in Glasgow today. Scores of empty seats (in a venue holding hundreds fewer than the packed-out Yes Glasgow launch), a fracas involving someone protesting about Trident, and the same tired old lines from the same tired old faces.

The pick of the bunch so far, though, came from Willie Rennie, who warned that “The Nationalists are right about the success of the parliament, but with independence devolution ends”. Yes, of course it does, you hapless balloon. Because when you arrive at your destination, you don’t need to travel any more.


If devolution is “a process, not an event”, then the only possible endpoint of that process is independence. Devolution is the return of more powers to the Scottish Parliament. When all powers are returned, of course there’s no more need for devolution. All the referendum represents is a shortcut – getting where we want to go in one leap without wrangling over the constitution non-stop for the next 40 years.

We can only imagine Willie Rennie burns his toast a lot.

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    77 to “This one’s for Willie”

    1. Jimbo says:

      “Yes, of course it does, you hapless balloon.”
      I liked that – kind of sums Rennie up to a ‘T’.
      Did any WOS reader make it there today?

    2. Somebody says:

      Nothing wrong with burnt toast. Tastes great with jam, but we’re not getting any jam, are we?

    3. Charles Docherty says:

      I hear that Better Together have claimed that 700 attended the Mitchell today – in a hall that holds only 410 people.  BBC reported this with no question.   If YES had said over 700 had attended a meeting when hall only held 410 then the YES campaign would have been ridiculed by the BBC for making outrageous claim.
      Reports from Yes campaigners who attended say that there were over 100 empty seats which would mean maximum of about 300-310 in attendance.  How many came from outside Glasgow is open to conjecture.

    4. naebd says:

      Looking forward to hearing the report on BT’s Glesga meeting. 

    5. AnneDon says:

      There were 700 at the Yes Glasgow launch – perhaps someone got confused? Considering the RIC can pack out meetings, let alone Yes Scotland, UKOK really are pathetic! 

    6. dinnatouch says:

      I hear that Better Together have claimed that 700 attended the Mitchell today – in a hall that holds only 410 people.

      Maybe they’re including those who turned up but couldn’t get inside – like anti-Trident protesters and known Yes supporters.

    7. Patronsaintofcats says:

      A balloon for a balloon?

    8. call me dave says:

      “The Nationalists are right about the success of the parliament, but with independence devolution ends”
      Oh Wullie you are the weakest link right enough!
      Best if you had kept quiet so folk wouldn’t know, ……too late now. 
      One of Fife’s finest too. Oh well.

    9. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “I hear that Better Together have claimed that 700 attended the Mitchell today”


    10. martyn says:

      i was there and head counted as they went in the entrance to the room, there was 91 people (including support staff)
      the 700 figure was taken from a bbc report but it was citing the 700 that attended the YES Scotland event

    11. call me dave says:

      BBC Report BT launch extract:
      I think it’s the YES launch that got 700.
      A spokesman for the pro-independence Yes Scotland campaign said: “We certainly agree with Johann Lamont that ‘Scotland deserves better than we have at the moment’. But why would anybody believe that sticking with a failed Westminster system that is responsible for imposing policies such as the punitive bedroom tax is the way to achieve that?”
      He added: “One of the key advantages of becoming independent is to foster new, healthy and equal relationships with other countries in these isles.”
      Yes Scotland said its Glasgow branch was launched nine months ago.
      It claimed that its “highly-successful” launch event was attended by over 700 people.

    12. Dcanmore says:

      The largest space in the Mitchell Library is the auditorium which seats 410. Ninety-one would only fill the first four rows (if they used it). The next space is Main Hall at 250 max; then it’s Jeffrey Room at 150, the other rooms are 100 or below.

    13. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “seen this?”

      Yes. Already retweeted and earmarked for And Finally… this evening. Might photoshop Lonely BT Lady in to give the poor lassie some company 😀

    14. Iain Walker says:

      If there were 700 people in a hall which can only hold 410, then surely it was overcrowded and should be reported to the authorities as it must have been contravening safety regulations!!!

    15. Welsh Sion says:

      We can only imagine Willie Rennie burns his toast a lot …

      … And then the buttered side will always hit the floor first.

    16. martyn says:

      oh and she is now trying to play the race card lol

    17. Taranaich says:

      I had a quick search for “hapless balloon” on Google, found this:
      Seems appropriate!

    18. TYRAN says:

      LOL. The new BT graphics are like something out of 1920s silent movies. Sums up their mindset.

    19. Albalha says:

      It was a 410 venue minus around 70 so I’d say 340 tops, yes I was there.

    20. @TYRAN
      Were they watching the relaunch Psycho?

    21. AlexMcI says:

      Think most of the missing BT crew were sitting next to me in the broomloan road stand at Ibrox today. Seriously I wonder why I bother sometimes. We were even treated to a half time lap of honour of a massive union flag dedicated to drummer Lee Rigby. 
      Now I know the boy died in a horrific way, and it’s right he is remembered, but as far as I’m aware the boy was not a Rangers fan, it sickened me a bit that his name is being used in this way.

    22. Arbroath 1320 says:

      Do these alleged unionist party leaders all have some sort of ‘stupidity’ training before becoming leaders or are they chosen because they already exhibit the level of stupidity required for the ‘job?’
      I hope Mr whatisname is aware that Kermit and Miss Piggy are not best pleased. They are, allegedly, looking at bringing legal action against the unionists because they are all giving the Muppets a very bad name. 😆

    23. Clarinda says:

      Surely a mix up at the Mitchell – the Better Together cohort must have gone to the earlier August event “‘Where the Dead Men Go’ – a thriller set in the Glasgow underworld”.  Best of both worlds indeed.

    24. muttley79 says:

      This is from the Guardian’s article:
      The Scottish Labour leader, Johann Lamont, focused much of her speech on a personal attack on Scotland’s first minister, Alex Salmond
      The hide and seek champion returns.  Did Lamont speak about Falkirk?  No, she launches another personal attack on Salmond…
      “I will never doubt the sincerity of their desire to improve Scotland,” she said. “But that breadth of view, that acknowledgement of a common humanity, is not possible for Alex Salmond. He believes that only by following him can we be a true Scot. It’s a kind of tartan messiah complex.”
      The Scottish Liberal Democrat leader, Willie Rennie, said a “no” vote could bring more powers to Holyrood without independence. 
      “By our efforts in the next year, we can win a prize for the long-term,” he said. “One that keeps Scotland in the United Kingdom and then sets us on the short path to a stronger Scottish parliament, which is where the majority of Scottish people want to be. The best of both worlds.”
      Even by Rennie’s standards this is a belter.  How can voting No possibly lead to a stronger Scottish Parliament in the short term?  We will just have voted to not let the Scottish Parliament have control over welfare, all taxation powers, scapping Trident etc?  It simply does not make any fucking sense… He has also just admitted that a majority do want a stronger Scottish Parliament.  How is this going to be achieved with a No vote, given that it is then at the mercy of Westminster?
      The Scottish Conservative leader, Ruth Davidson, referred to UK institutions such as the NHS.
      I thought the Scottish NHS was alreasy separate?  Also, her chums down south are privatising the English NHS! 
      “You can get treated here, but if there’s not a specialist unit in Scotland, you can go to a unit in Newcastle or elsewhere,” she said. “There is nothing that gets in the way of that.”
      The meeting was held in the near-capacity Mitchell theatre in Glasgow, and was attended by politicians, campaigners and members of the public.
      Members of the public who had to be vetted first though…
      A few points on this article.  Firstly, reading these quotes, if there is a No vote then I really, really, really fear for the future of Scotland.  It will be much, much worse than 1979.  We will have said to the world, and much worse ourselves,  that Scotland is not prepared to run its own affairs, and simultaneously allowed the the most mediocre, negative, lying politicians imaginable to maintain their grim, can’t do mentality grip on our country .  We simply cannot afford to let these Unionist politicians win, as they will always ensure that they talk down our nation, and its peoples’, ability to govern itself.  The stakes are massive… 

    25. HandandShrimp says:

      I know Duncan Hotandcoldtaps (I can’t be arsed looking it up) thinks we are a mean shower of bastards but I think their strategy of talking complete pish every time they find themselves in front of a microphone is bordering on deliberate provocation.

    26. Macart says:

      Not the only howler dropped by Willie today.
      The Scottish Liberal Democrat leader, Willie Rennie, said a “no” vote could bring more powers to Holyrood without independence.
      Do you see what he said there folks and in front of all Scottish leaders?

    27. wee folding bike says:

      Real Best of Both Worlds art work:
      And for a more musical version of Locutus of Borg:

    28. Arbroath 1320 says:

      Has Better Together spent all of that lovely £500,000 blood money they received from the bloodied donor?
      That is the only possible reason for people in the Mitchell Library to be forced to listen to such p*** today. All the comedians on the stage must have used the same writer to produce their, ahem, ‘speeches!’

    29. call me dave says:

      Extract Guardian report:
      The meeting was held in the near-capacity Mitchell theatre in Glasgow, and was attended by politicians, campaigners and members of the public.
      One man in the audience was thrown out half way through the question and answer session for heckling the panel loudly.
      Given the opportunity to ask a question, he attacked the presence of the Trident nuclear deterrent in Scotland and repeatedly shouted over other speakers.

    30. DMW42 says:

      I hear Mickey Mouse is wearing a Wullie Rennie watch.

    31. Albalha says:

      And for starters they were treated to Sham 69 and ‘If the kids are united’. Wonder if they’ve really looked at the rest of the lyrics.

    32. Murray McCallum says:

      Trying to be serious for a minute, I just hope someone has taken the trouble to microchip Wullie Rennie.  I mean, he must struggle to find his way home.
      “Independent Scotland would struggle on World stage” – thanks for the belief Alistair and, to be honest, it will mean we continue to have something in common with rUK. I guess this stuff was written for him early last week.
      “Best of both worlds”, I am reliably uninformed, is a new alcoholic beverage (or what real Scots in London call ale) that Better Together are pedaling to raise funds.

    33. Davy says:

      Its nice to see the NO campaign are still hitting the lower levels of stupidity, and a very big welcome back to Johann Lamont, I am sure the summer spent redecorating the bunker was well worth it.
      She will be glad to know the standards that she herself freqently as show as the lower side of numpty have been well maintained by Darling, Davidson and Rennie during the summer.
      I look forward to the actual facts about todays Glasgow launch of the “NO campaigns” public meeting ? , lets call them by their proper name eh. 
      Caesar! Gu snooker loopy!

    34. Boorach says:

      From the expressions on their faces I’d say all of the Scottish branch managers are experiencing the same halucination….. that of staring their electoral prospects directly in the eye! 🙂

    35. Davy says:

      If an “Independent Scotland would struggle on the world stage” exactlly how much influence do we actually we have right now without independence ??, I mean we have 59 MPs and even if they all voted together the rest of Westminster still outvotes them around 9 to 1.
      That may a bittie simplistic but at least with independence we would actually be speaking with our own voice and influence and it would be a lot more than we have right now.
      Vote Yes, Vote Scotland.
      Hail Caesar!.  

    36. annie says:

      A bit rich for Alistair Darling to say Scotland not big enough to play its part on world stage and then to vote against the government position on Syria. I have no doubt that no one expected the result we got – least of all the labour politicians.

    37. Linda's back says:

      For the last three days my Yes friends have been unable to log into Scotsman web site whereas the usual NO Scotland trolls are allowed free reign

    38. Thepnr says:

      @Linda’s back
      Don’t worry about it, it’s just the latest form of censorship from the MSM. We had better get used to it and practice using our voice instead of our fingers to spread the word.

    39. Tinyzeitgeist says:

      Want to take a look at mr darling’s voting record at Westminster where he voted ‘strongly’ for the Iraq war and ID cards! Everyone should be clear where this bawbag’s priorities lie.

    40. annie says:

      Paul Hutcheon (herald) just tweeting latest poll No 59% Yes 29% what is going on ?

    41. Jiggsbro says:

      Paul Hutcheon (herald) just tweeting latest poll No 59% Yes 29% what is going on ?
      They asked Blair McDougall, Alastair Darling and Blair Jenkins. It would have been 66%/33%, but both Blairs were swithering a bit.

    42. Firestarter says:

      That Guardian article (BTL) is absolute comedy gold, btw ……
      I mean, seriously … the fact that Bitter Together are holding their “public” meetings in secret, in Glasgow FFS! They have to hide, in Scotland’s largest city? Confident of their case for the union… I think not. What a glum panel of glum people, preaching glum stuff to the glum! And yet again, pro-Indy comment numbers are orders of magnitude greater than Anti.  Ho Hum.
      Oh, and “clout” on the world stage? I’m willing to bet that AD and chums didn’t even manage to have “clout” on the Mitchell Library (near-capacity 400) stage! Funny thing is, I ‘m not even sure they REALISE that they are a joke? Point and laugh, people ….. point and laugh 🙂

    43. Norrie says:

      I think it maybe in answer to question along the lines of ‘ how would you vote if devo max was on the table’
      KennyFarq is tweeting this as well as the 29% 59% figure.
      New #indyref poll has revealing details on how many Yes voters could abandon ship if No side offers more powers for Holyrood.
      Which looks to me like he’s covering his ass, might be wrong no hard evidence. I hope this is the case.

    44. Hetty says:

      fabrication is easy with regard to the msm and polls that they say they have conducted. I wouldn’t worry, it’s probably vice versa or at least close to. anyone  can say anything but the truth can’t be hidden, at least not for very long.

    45. Marcia says:

      A poll headlined in SoS. We will have to wait to see which polling firm did the poll, their tables and the trend in their series of polls. I wonder if it is MORI? As we are over a year to go we shall enjoy the rollercoaster ride of the polls.

    46. Jimbo says:

      “For the last three days my Yes friends have been unable to log into Scotsman web site whereas the usual NO Scotland trolls are allowed free reign”
      Why bother? Let them talk pish to each other. Nobody gives any credence what that lot have to say anyway. Seriously, it’s a ‘fix’ you can live without.
      Every time you go into the Scotsman site it brings them much needed revenue from advertisers, which in turn pays for next week’s anti Scottish headlines. IMO the quicker that lying rag goes down the tubes, the better. Don’t help keep the Scottish cringe alive by gaining financial transfusions for the Scotsman because of ‘hits’ on it’s comments sections.

    47. southernscot says:

      Apparently its a YouGov poll paid for “Devoplus” crowd.
      O/T have you seen this new twitter account

    48. HandandShrimp says:

      There seems to me to be an awful lot of talk (and it is just talk) of more powers. Having insisted that Devo Max/More/Whatever is a line in the sand and be unhitched from the whole independence debate there seems to be a sudden surge of politicians from all the No parties saying that more powers are coming – despite not a red cent being on the table.
      It would, it seems, be their throw of the dice to attempt trim back the recent rise of Yes and slide of No in the polls. Fortunately at a year out we have plenty of time to call these phantom powers out into the daylight. I guess we will, though, have to be braced for the possibility that their bottle goes and Devo Max is slapped on the table as a last ditch play of the cards. However, we are no where near that situation at the moment. 

    49. scottish_skier says:

      Yougov should be ignored.
      Sort of like Tesco value, but cheap.

    50. pic says:

      So the meeting was rather small, have asked the No bods for numbers….not holding my breath for the response. 

    51. Thepnr says:

      No Devo Max for me, after 30+ years of voting Labour, I switched from a definite No to a definite YES once I started trying to find out more about the “truth” and realised what has been happening before my very eyes without me even noticing.
      “I was then taken and hung by the larger of my two testicles from the Wall of the Bastille. It was at this stage I decided I’d had enough” (Blackadder)

    52. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “A poll headlined in SoS. We will have to wait to see which polling firm did the poll, their tables and the trend in their series of polls.”

      It’s YouGov. Previous poll by them was 29-55, so once you factor in the standard margin of error on each poll it represents no change whatsoever.

    53. HandandShrimp says:

      This poll has a suspiciously low number of Don’t Knows when every other poll has the number rising.

    54. pic says:

      Let’s be honest, it’s commissioned by the Scotsman group so the people say Yes would probably have to agree to strangling a kitten or something.
      As for YouGov how good were they at predicting the last scottish election?
      I think I recall they were still saying it would be close up to polling day*
      *probably wrong, my memory is not that good. 

    55. Jimbo says:

      Darling says Scotland is not big enough to play its part on the world’s stage.
      What he means by that is:
      We won’t be trying to look big by hanging out with, and helping, the school bully to bomb weaker nations back to the stone-age with impunity.
      We won’t stick two fingers up to the UN while we send our sons to die in illegal wars.
      We won’t be killing innocent women and children asleep in their beds.
      We won’t be party to kidnapping people off of the streets of other countries and sticking them on rendition flights.
      We won’t be complicit in the industrialised murder of hundreds thousands of civilians in other countries (like Iraq).
      We won’t interfere in the business of other countries for the purpose of regime change.
      We won’t ever participate in, or revel in, the kind of ‘Shock and Awe’ that was visited upon Iraq.
      We won’t glory in, or squander money on, nuclear weapons while Scotland’s children starve, and our unfortunates on benefits pay a tax for the privilege of having a spare bedroom.

      We won’t knowingly tolerate and callously watch our poor pensioners (on average 3000 per year) die in an energy rich Scotland because we’d rather pay for WMDs, while their only choice is to heat or eat.
      These are the kind of things that the Unionists, like Darling, think is playing your part on the world’s stage. These are the things that they think make them look BIG.

    56. Braco says:

      Rev Stu,
      just out of interest, did the latest WOS poll include a YES/NO/Don’t know on the Referendum question? Hope so, as it might make a very interesting (and news worthy) head to head between ‘respected’ pollsters.
      Over on  Prof Curtice seems to be answering posters’ detailed and informed doubts over different polling company methodologies and therefor their results, with a general promise of a fully researched article some time later in the year.
      Perhaps an interesting, easily comparable, soon to be released WOS Panelbase poll result on the official referendum question might help light a fire under his team of researchers? (hopefulGrin)

    57. Thepnr says:

      You know what, I just can’t understand these polls. I talk about the referendum often to all shapes and sizes and apart from being told I was a “fucking idiot” on one occasion, I find almost exclusively positive views!
      How can this be? What I think is that the majority are undecided, answering a pollster  they may just side with the view of their preferred parties. Spend 10 minutes talking to them and I swear many will tell you they will vote YES.
      The truth is possibly that  polls generally represent the views of the commissioner or the poll because the questions are structured to obtain the result the buyer would like, lets avoid that please Rev.
      Quite simply I do not believe the results of the polls that the MSM are reporting because that is not my own personal experience. Where are all these NO supporters? Not much presence on the newspaper columns or social media, nor real life in my experience.

    58. Paula Rose says:

      Sham 69 track ‘The Kids Are United’ played – please tell me that is not true, just you being witty.

    59. DanTDog says:

      @ Jimbo…that, sir, is an excellent summation! do you mind if I post it on Facebook (with your accreditation, of course…)…?

    60. Training Day says:

      Anyone who invests any faith in any MSM ‘poll’ buttons up the back. Why do we give house room to this ordure?

      Incidentally, Paul Hutcheon had the potential to be a great journalist. He failed – dismally – because he lacked courage. Not a mistake we’ll make, Paul.

    61. Angus McPhee says:

      What’s that Mr Darling said?

      “Ultimately, the long-term solution is going to have to be diplomatic and the UK has got far more clout in the United Nations, and in the G20 which is meeting in Russia next week, than a smaller country ever would.”

      While I appreciate that having ‘clout’ in The UN is not all it’s cracked up to be. I would have thought the most influential Person in The United Nations would be the Secretary General?
      where have the Secretary Generals of the United nations Come from?

      South Korea

      Funny That!

    62. Albalha says:

      Re Sham 69, all very true! And they also played ‘Everyday People’ by Sly and the Family Stone.

    63. Albalha says:

      Re numbers at BT meeting I’d say approx 330/340, 60/70 empty seats out of theatre that holds 410.

    64. Keyser Soze says:

      Eye witness report from yesterday @ the BT launch,Glasgow

    65. Barontorc says:

      So reports of between 70 and 100 empty seats leaving about 300 to listen a litany of total negativity and they think this is going somewhere?
      I almost fell off my chair on Friday when two guys who I had marked as definite NO came out with force and said independently, they were voting YES, with the by-lines that nobody ‘s gonna tell me I can’t stand on my own two feet and I’ll decide what’s best for me and my family. You could have knocked me over with a feather. The job’s done and dusted and YES haven’t even yet started reinforcing the truth of it all.

    66. Albalha says:

      What I also found interesting was just how many Conservatives were there compared to Labour folks.

    67. EvelynSezAye says:

      I watched all of this from the cafe and also from outside, and at a rough guess I’d say that 90% of these ‘members of the public & activists’ were specially invited Tory donors. I’ve never encountered so many tweed suits, walking sticks and elderly ladies with hats thereon who looked as though they were attending the Sunday Service. I applied for and received an ‘invite’ to the Mitchell Library and duly attended…but was refused entry as my name was not on the ‘LIST’..the same happened to several people, some of whom had travelled a fair distance to get there. This is what my invitations said –
      Thank you for registering your interest in attending the launch of Better Together’s Glasgow Group. We are delighted to be able to confirm the place(s) that you requested for this important event.
      The launch will take place on Saturday, 31 August 2013 at 13:00 in the Mitchell Library, Granville Street, Glasgow.
      Teas and coffees will be available from 12:30. As this event is fully subscribed, We would ask that you arrive promptly.
      A map to the venue can be found here.

      I was none too pleased…when I arrived home I tweeted about this and a chap called Ross Henderson told me he was ‘one of the people who had made up the ‘list’..? So when I showed him my ‘invite’ he told me that ‘if I’d called the office to book a seat, I would have got one’?? My invitation does not say I have to call and book…it tells me I have BOOKED!

      Public meeting my *rse!

    68. HandandShrimp says:

      Your email says your places are confirmed, turn up early to get a seat. If I applied for tickets to see a band and got that email, went to the venue and was told I am not on the list I would be raging.
      The fact that it transpires it was only 3/4s full suggests that they tried to weed out any possible infiltrators at the door.
      Public meeting? Only in North Korea.

    69. Jimbo says:

      Feel free.

    70. Albalha says:

      @evelynsez aye and @handandshrimp
      Re BT and the invite. I received same e mail, did NOT phone to book a seat and got in, selectivity must have been going on.
      Suppose that means I look like a NO voter, gosh maybe even a Tory, goodness …… that will be their downfall, they really don’t get it, the range of people who will be voting YES.
      I was surprised at just how many Tories were there and the number of them that clearly were from the same branch …(do they have branches?) There were obviously Labour folks there too …Lib Dems, I’d struggle to visualise a clear identikit.

    71. EvelynSezAye says:

      Caesar!lha….AHA!! so, you were on this ‘list’ and I was not? hmmm.. I suspect my jeans may have been my downfall….you must let me know how were dressed…lol! The man in front of me was refused entry, as was myself, my friend and my partner. I also met another 5 people outside who had been refused. They too, had received the same email as me. Many others may well have wandered off, so I suspect the refused numbers were fairly high….and considering they had over 100 empty seats??  Better together only wanted yesterday for soundbites and propaganda….but it hasn’t really worked..After the meeting had started, I wandered back in and the two Labour lackeys sitting at the ‘entry desk’ asked me if I was going in. I said I’d received an invitation and acceptance email but my name wasn’t on the list. The 2 guys then had the cheek to thank me for attending anyway!! I quickly replied…NO..Thank YOU for inviting me and for not allowing me entry! 3 of the library security guys standing at the doors heard this and completely agreed that this was well out of order.

    72. Albalha says:

      I never wear jeans, that must be it!
      On the numbers I was counting from 10 minutes before they started to a little after they had.
      Before they started I’d say around the 100 mark but then quite a few came in at the tail end and indeed after they’d started. Some, clearly will have been BT workers who’d been doing stuff outside. So I’ll put it around 70.
      But it is interesting to know they were vetting as late as folk turned up at the desk having received their confirmation.

    73. Barontorc says:

      @Caesar!lha – It sure looks like Labour are a completely spent force in Scotland – yet there should be no surprise in that whatsoever given the standard of leadership and banana skins they’ve managed to keep putting in front of their own feet.
      My question is, just what do decent Labour activists really think about what’s going on or are they too numb to even think about changing direction towards the light? Whatever is to come they can’t be so brain-dead as to even consider voting for more of the same – so it will be a massive apathy attack coming up.
      And as to those who will blindly keep going down the road to nowhere – hell mend you.

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