The war of the worlds
This is the last of the political data from our Panelbase survey of Scottish opinion. The full data tables should now be available to the media from the pollster.
(But a quick word to all the Scottish journalists who we know read this site – had a single one of you had the courtesy, wit or basic journalistic initiative to actually contact us and ask us for the tables directly, we’d gladly have given them to you 24 hours before your competitors. Just a wee tip there.)
We know our chums at “Better Together” have been looking forward to this one for days, so we won’t keep them waiting any longer.
When the poll was in the field and its questions became public-domain information, the No camp clumsily attempted to use the next two questions as mockery. But although we deliberately worded one of the options in a frivolously comic manner (at one point we toyed with the idea of using “Daleks”) for the purposes of heavy-handed satire, the actual subject matter could barely be any more deadly serious.
Because these two questions are aimed straight at the heart of whether Scotland spends the next half-century looking after its old and ill and vulnerable people, or suffering the unending agonies of austerity in order to pay for useless weapons of mass destruction so that politicians can enjoy hollow delusions of imperial power.
———————————————————————————————
Q: Which of these do you think represents a significant threat to Scotland in your lifetime?
Tick as many as apply.
———————————————————————————————
Being attacked by Russia: 3%
Being attacked by China: 4%
Being attacked by Iran: 5%
Being attacked by North Korea: 7%
Being attacked by terrorists: 34%
Being attacked by space monsters: 4%
Conservative governments elected by the rest of the UK: 52%
None of the above: 24%
———————————————————————————————
So let’s just put those in order of what frightens Scots the most:
1. Conservative governments
2. Terrorists
3. North Korea
4. Iran
5. Space monsters
6. China
7. Russia
By an enormous margin, the greatest threat to the wellbeing of Scotland in the eyes of Scots is having more Tory governments it didn’t vote for imposed on it by the voters of England. (Remarkably, 9% of Tory voters agreed, perhaps because even Conservatives realise the dangers of unpopular policies being constantly imposed by governments which have been rejected by Scottish voters.)
The vast, worryingly under-supervised nuclear capability of the former Soviet Union and the huge military and economic might of China, on the other hand, are both less frightening to Scottish voters than SPACE MONSTERS.
We included space monsters as an option, of course, because advocates of the UK’s nuclear “deterrent” constantly justify it by saying “Oh, sure, so there might be no imaginable military threat to us at the moment, but you can’t say what the world situation might be 30 or 40 years from now”.
That’s fair enough, but by that token you have to include space monsters too, because nobody can say for sure that we WON’T be attacked by invaders from another galaxy by 2053. It’s an awfully long way off, and in 1973 we hadn’t even predicted the iPhone, for heaven’s sake. Can we REALLY say there definitely won’t be space monsters?
Alert readers will have noted that the only other perceived threat that even reached double figures was that of terrorist attack, which is not usually thought of as a menace deterred by nuclear weapons. (They certainly didn’t deter the 9/11 attacks or the London bombings, for example, both perpetrated on nuclear weapons states.) But it seemed only fair to ask anyway.
This time we’ll give the answers in order straight off:
———————————————————————————————
Q: Which of these threats do you think the siting of nuclear weapons in HMNB Clyde (Faslane) provides Scotland with a practical defence against?
Tick as many as apply.
———————————————————————————————
None of the above: 58%
Being attacked by North Korea: 18%
Being attacked by Iran: 17%
Being attacked by terrorists: 16%
Being attacked by Russia: 14%
Being attacked by China: 12%
Conservative governments elected by the rest of the UK: 8%
Being attacked by space monsters: 5%
———————————————————————————————
The first thing to take away from that result, obviously, is that the people of Scotland would sooner use nuclear weapons on the Conservative Party than on invading space monsters. But the other striking conclusion is that a large majority of Scots think that nuclear weapons are no use for defending us against anything at all.
(Even 48% of Tory respondents ticked “None of the above”.)
At first it seems strange that people think they’re a more effective deterrent against North Korea and Iran than China or Russia. Do Scots really think North Korea or Iran are just itching to invade/bomb Scotland (why?) but are only dissuaded by our nukes?
But actually it’s a perfectly rational and sensible analysis. As we’ve explored on this site before, the truth of the matter is that the UK’s piddly nuclear armament is barely capable of making a fleabite on either of the vast Eastern powers. The single Trident submarine that’s on patrol at any given time could – unless destroyed by enemy action first, obviously – certainly kill millions of people, but Russia and China have both survived the loss of tens of millions of their own citizens at various points in history.
In so much as a nuclear war is conceivable at all (given the planet-wide environmental implications), the UK is simply not a strategic factor to either of the two giant nations. Iran or North Korea, on the other hand, could both be effectively wiped from the face of the Earth even by the UK acting alone. But even then, over 82% of Scots don’t think our possession of Trident is what’s stopping them from invading us.
(We expect it’s mostly the 14,000 treaties they’d have to renegotiate if they took over.)
None of this ought to be news. No less an authority than Tony Blair admitted in his autobiography that Trident was militarily useless and purely a prestige issue for UK governments. Former Tory defence secretaries have described it as “a tremendous waste of money”. Even the USA is urging Britain to forget about renewing it and spend the money on conventional forces instead.
Yet every UK party remains committed to spending over £100bn on a replacement Trident system, just in case those space monsters might really be lurking out there somewhere, waiting patiently for us to drop our guard. (And why not? It’s no stupider a notion than North Korea nuking Scotland.)
There is no democratic means within the UK to rid Scotland of an incredibly expensive white elephant that almost nobody wants, yet which necessitates brutal cuts in public services. The people and their governments seem to be on different planets. Readers might be forgiven for wondering who the war is really against.
Tories or Spacemonster? I’s vote for spacemonsters every time.
I’ve nothing to add at the moment other than to say ‘good job Stu’, and the same goes for any minions you’ve had helping you over the last few days. I’m off to find Panelbase’s tables now.
That’s genius Rev. And had me laughing out loud in places 😀
Fabulous. I have heard the nuclear deterrent called a big stick with which to walk tall, by a MOD civil servant, and experienced real puzzlement as to why the Scots don’t think that is important, even after I point out that the Scots have influences in other areas, their international reputation is one of hard work and ingenuity and a kind of pally-ness that is based on a man’s a man fur a’ that which is underscored by a dislike of anyone being taken advantage of by people who ought to know better. It’s about time they did it for themselves.
Superb work. As for the “Scottish” journalists who regularly visit – surely you must feel embarrassed at being shown up like this?
The Rev’s pen is surely mightier than the sword. Well done Stu keep up the good work and stay in good health.
I don’t know about anyone else but the main stick out point from this is the only 18% would vote to create a Union, I knew Lamont was spewing shite when she made that coment in parliament, I even made a wee video about it, well done Rev and all involved.
Rev. should your ‘none of the above’, in the last question above, be at the bottom of the list to make it more sensible.
Otherwise fantastic reading of the last few days… as it always is.
Excellent article…what a couple of days….can we do it again please?
Oh Wow! Brilliant piece of work!
Tried to correct the typo, never mind, you get my point 🙂
Stu, have you opened a ‘book’ on whether any of the MSM will use your results. I’m still surprised that the Herald has demurred??
“Rev. should your ‘none of the above’, in the last question above, be at the bottom of the list to make it more sensible.”
I did think about that, but all of the “above” options ARE already above it on the page, in the previous question, so I’m fine with it 🙂
Well done Stu and everyone that made this possible.
The Scots have never voted against their own country in any vote they havd been offered.
Book the hall for the party now. 🙂
Panelbase tables here:
http://www.panelbase.com/news/
Quite magnificent work this week Rev
*doffs cap
Haud oan! Tories aren’t space monsters?!?!?
Every day’s a school day…
Your poll ignores the possibility that the Conservatives are space monsters. My god, man, have you never seen Invasion of the Milksnatchers?
Rev, all I can say is this,
I’m so glad you’re in my team.
“Stu, have you opened a ‘book’ on whether any of the MSM will use your results. I’m still surprised that the Herald has demurred??”
Until now everyone had a (weak) excuse in the absence of the full tables. But they’ve got the data in plenty of time for the weekend papers (and the new season of Scotland Tonight), so let’s see how events unfold.
This polling has gone to my head. Mr. Jeannie has just come in from his work. I haven’t made the tea as Ive been reading Wings. I had to ask him……
Q1: Mr. Jeannie, on a scale of one to ten, (one being most unlikely and ten being highly likely) how likely are you to want the following for your tea?
a)fishcakes
b) venison burgers
c) pork chops
Q2: Mr Jeannie, would it alter your opinion in any way were you to be told that the use-by date for the fishcakes was yesterday?
Yes
No
Q3: Mr Jeannie…if the answer to the previous question was Yes, how likely are you now, on a scale of 1-10 (1 being low, ten being high) to want fishcakes for your tea?
Poll Results:
Fishcakes 5 (even if they’re off)
Burgers 7
Pork chops 7
He can feckin starve!
Now he says he shouldn’t be punished just because he’s an “undecided”
As long as they are proper pork chops, Jeannie. A nice thick fat layer, that turns crispy on the outside, but melts in the mouth just below.
None of this modern, healthy shite, that cuts off most of the fat!
Jeannie
You run a very democratic household. I am interpreting your poll along the lines that, even when it comes to the fishcakes, Mr Jeannie is simply quite happy for any meal to be cooked for him. Even if uncontrolled digestive consequences. Good man.
You know that feeling you get when you watch any of the political shows on the box, and you sit there and shout out “Why don’t you ask this question you idiot!!!”. That built up tension, frustration and yes, anger.
Well now I feel like I’ve just had a nice massage and a hot bath in radox.
Thank you Rev 🙂
And no….not that kind of massage!! Some people have minds in the sewers.
Well done Rev and thanks to everyone that chipped in to make this happen. Brilliant!
A fairly realistic assessment of the threats. Perhaps in an independent Scotland we could the UK’s National Security Strategy with a crowd-sourced suggestion box system?
Haha space monsters! This survey is laughable. No way we’re printing anything about this survey!
[pulls nervously at collar]
Stu I hope I haven’t missed it if someone else has raised it already but the biggest single issue exposed by the Panelbase poll is the very low penetration (readership) of the online blogs who counter the lies of the MSM? Whilst there a lot of positives coming out of the poll this shows that the Yes campaign is still not doing enough to get their story to the unconverted. That is endorsed by the number of people who don’t know Blair J and although this is also true of Blair M that matters less as the MSM publish everything project Fear says. The Yes campaign need to fix this by using other means of communication whether it be advertising, direct marketing or the Yes army knocking on doors in a sustained targeted fashion. I hope they are planning to do more in this respect
The Tory terrorists and hopelessly expensive nukes on the outskirts of Glesga are indeed there to be relentlessly deployed over the coming year.
Obviously tremendous thought and work gone into all this. Great stuff.
Jeannie,
You should have said, ‘It’s salad for tea and your dinner is in the garden’.
Well done our Rev.
“Stu I hope I haven’t missed it if someone else has raised it already but the biggest single issue exposed by the Panelbase poll is the very low penetration (readership) of the online blogs who counter the lies of the MSM?”
Covered that in this morning’s post. Considering how short a period of time most of the sites have been around, penetration is in fact already remarkably high. More importantly, it’s going up while the MSM’s reach is dropping. But, y’know, people don’t walk into a newsagents for a packet of crisps and a Twix and see shelves of advertising for websites.
@Marcia
He’s had his chips!
None of this modern, healthy shite, that cuts off most of the fat!
And what happened to chops with a bit of kidney attached? Elf’n’safety gone mad.
Well done fantastic reading. What else can we crowd surf fund? How much are billboards or posters on Glasgow underground.
Mightily impressed Rev, fingers crossed the information gets out there. I presume you have plans for another survey down the line to build on this?
How much are billboards or posters on Glasgow underground.
Not too pricey, given the success rate of WoS crowdfunding.
http://www.primesight.co.uk/documents/50/Glasgow-Subway-Digital-6-Sheets-Brochure
I have a hypothesis ; the 4% of people who have never heard of Alex Salmond must be the same people who are afraid of being attacked by space monsters. There must be a ‘twilight zone’ in Scotland somewhere where these people exist – anyone want to guess where?
“(and the new season of Scotland Tonight)”
Can’t believe you ruined the whole thing by saying “season” instead of “series”, Stu. Limmy would be ashamed…
Oh okay, the results of these questions simply cannot be ruined. Tories a bigger threat than terrorists, and Trident being completely impotent – don’t you love it when people give you exactly the answers you were hoping for?
Saving the best to last as far as I’m concerned Rev. These questions and responses had me chortling.
Sheer bloody genius to treat Project Fear with the disdain they deserve with the whole ‘space monsters’ angle.
Can we do this again soon ?
I am still laughing. You forgot some though I am sure that an Invasion of Body Snatchers or Triffids would have polled higher than Russia and China as well as giving the Space Monsters and Iran a run for thier money.
@Jamie Arriere
There must be a ‘twilight zone’ in Scotland somewhere where these people exist – anyone want to guess where?
Most likely candidate is Aberdour in Fife 🙂
Alex Grant,
that is the grass roots YES campaign strategy. I would be interested to know the ‘penetration’ of Newsnicht and recognition percentage of say Gordon Brewer, just as a political comparison?
On the whole I have been very heartened by these results. Thanks again everyone!
I for one welcome our new SPACE MONSTER masters
“There must be a ‘twilight zone’ in Scotland”
Isn’t that somewhere around Falkirk?
Excellent stuff!
I just wanted to say Well Done on getting this all organised, Stuart. I’m sure everyone who contributed would agree that we certainly got our money’s worth! 🙂
Braco, I read somewhere Newsnight UK gets about 500,000 viewers average, cant find figures for Newnicht Scotland but divide by ten rule would suggest 50,000-100,000.
When is the best time to fundraise for the next poll ?
Re. possible poster campaign. I think Glasgow is the obvious location and the “what they tell you/what they leave out”, would be powerful advertisers for WoS. We would need to put a bit of thought in to when would be the best time to do this, though I don’t know how far in advance the space would need to be booked. I’m sure we could achieve funding for all day, if we put our mind to it.
There must be a ‘twilight zone’ in Scotland somewhere where these people exist – anyone want to guess where?
Twilight Zone,
5, Blythswood Square,
Glasgow,
G2 4AD
Brilliant Rev. Knocked it clean between the uprights with the last two questions.
Basically the numbers from every question asked highlights the electorate’s wish to control their own affairs. Pretty much as you’ve said for some time, they want independence so long as its called something else less scary. The trick is taking the fear from the word in the next twelve months.
Look forward to trying this exercise again.
“Braco, I read somewhere Newsnight UK gets about 500,000 viewers average, cant find figures for Newnicht Scotland but divide by ten rule would suggest 50,000-100,000.”
Yep, that’s about right. This piece puts Scotland Tonight on 157,000 and a Scotsman article said that was around twice what Newsnicht tended to get.
http://www.allmediascotland.com/broadcasting/19799/ratings-success-for-scotland-tonight-2/
That was serious bang for buck. Do we have anything left over from the £6000 fundraiser? Is it too early to inquire if there is an outline thought about what to spend it on?
There must be a ‘twilight zone’ in Scotland somewhere where these people exist – anyone want to guess where?
West Lothian.
http://www.westlothiancourier.co.uk/2010/08/05/ufo-reports-flood-in-for-west-lothian-62405-26997374/
What’s that coming over the hill? Is it Johann Lamont?
What a brilliant exercise this has been – well done to everyone who funded it and helped conceive it. The results seem to offer plenty useful and encouraging information for YES campaigners.
Oooh the tables are out.
What a gift on a friday night; poll tables and a beer.
(how sad is that ;-))
7% of Tory voters consider space monsters a threat to Scotland
EDIT. I thought West Lothian was more Labour…
@Morag,
Of course. West Lothian – Tam Dalyell country. Circle squared.
@ Alex Grant
“Stu I hope I haven’t missed it if someone else has raised it already but the biggest single issue exposed by the Panelbase poll is the very low penetration (readership) of the online blogs who counter the lies of the MSM?”
Agree. We all need to get good links out there and used and passed on by ordinary voters.
I’m doing my bit with these (see link below) available for download and laser-printing from my site. Will also be doing a version of this at hi-res for ‘proper’ printng for download soon, so that groups or individuals can have them printed in 1,000s for distribution. Printed some at my own cost and 1,000+ handed out by Yes Highland at Black Isle Show recently (along with 1,000 each of two others). Also passing bundles to student-aged friends to take back to Uni, etc.
http://tinyurl.com/l5yydcj
Indyposterboy
Outstanding work, Rev. Sends all of us into the weekend (with a Yes event taking place on my patch tomorrow) with a huge fillip.
There are few words beyond those already expressed
top job stu
absolute top job
“That was serious bang for buck. Do we have anything left over from the £6000 fundraiser? Is it too early to inquire if there is an outline thought about what to spend it on?”
Round about £1700 left. Was planning to put it towards the next poll, but always open to ideas.
@Albert Herring
When I lived in Glasgow Blythwoods Square was were people would prostitute themselves for money. Oh wait..
I have a confession to make I am a “space monster” masquerading as ‘Davy’ and I too voted that you are more likely to be attacked by the blood sucking tories than us, and I should know.
Live long and prosper, if you vote YES.
Brilliant work throughout – well done to all who contributed.
We need more of these – very happy to contribute
Simply superb work Rev. I’m in for funding the next poll. Statistics speak louder than words?
Yer a hard wummin Jeannie.
Just had to give my bawbee’s worth; the last few days have been an emotional rollercoaster and what life affirming results. Pure respect to all in this great space. I look forward to spreading these real results far and wide and given the eloquence with which the good Rev has presented them, that should be easy. Much to do in the next year but my God we can move forward with confidence with this.
Thanks again.
There is a year to go, I talk to people and direct them to sites such as this. Three people I met who would vote No will now vote Yes, and I’d go for the venison burgers Mr Jeannie 🙂
I can only dream of a fantasy scenario where voting was compulsary…how would the don’t knows Y/N Vote ?
Fantastic work. For any future poll I would find it very interesting to ask re referendum voting intention – however couched – something along the lines of: –
Absolutely definitely yes / maybe yes but open to persuasion / really don’t know / wont vote coz I don’t care / maybe no but open to persuasion / absolutely definitely no.
This would give a feel for how soft or hard each vote actually is
Save the best to last eh Stu. Classic stuff! Nothing like the Scottish people to tell it like it is ahaha. Now the race is on to get wings and all the other pro indy sites reaching to parts never before reached i.e, the masses. I think your questions were very clever and asking the respondents things they’ve probably never been asked before and in so doing, bringing to their attention the suggestion of bias in the media thus putting the names of the indy blogs & websites into their consciousness which plants the seed in their mind then wait for the pennies to drop a year out from the referendum. This really could be won with the internet playing centre stage in the fight.
A huge pat on the back to you Stu. Whats next…
Round about £1700 left. Was planning to put it towards the next poll, but always open to ideas.
I was thinking, we don’t want to be predictable, or to repeat ourselves too soon. This exercise has been a resounding success, but if the MSM aren’t going to cover it then they won’t cover another poll either. Tactically, I wouldn’t make the “next thing” another poll.
Is there something else we could do, different but with the same sort of level of impact?
I can only dream of a fantasy scenario where voting was compulsary…how would the don’t knows Y/N Vote ?
From a psychological point of view, I believe that if you’ve been compelled to vote when you have no strong feelings, you’re more likely to vote negatively, against the governing party or the position supported by the governing party. So I suspect compulsory voting in the referendum would be counter-productive.
Here’s a clip in which the perfectly groomed MSM mouthpiece is suddenly undone, by WoS as represented by a fast-moving bug:
This whole exercise has been very worthwhile.It gives a wee bit of information as to where we stand and why.The main thing I take from it is that a big chunk of the NO vote is very soft.
£1700 left eh? (thinks)
Soooooo in depth analysis of the true value of whisky exports in todays cut throat liquor industry, distillery by distillery? Is our product good enough in todays market? WE MUST KNOW!
In the interests of scientific objectivity each product must be rigorously sampled.
See you in a couple of months. 😉
Jiggsbro
Just for the avoidance of doubt I do not agree with compulsary voting however given the discussions around the don’t knows there must be a good few who are at tipping point towards either Y or N… Now, I was just trying to ascertain a question that would be able to flesh out whether the DN’s are more inclined to Y or No.
Still think projecting ‘Project Feart‘ onto Pacific Quay is a winner. No idea what it would cost, but have the contact details.
Ian,
I pinged a mail off to Stu regarding the same idea, however it was to project the WoS logo onto Edinburgh Castle or the old Scotsman building. I would be happy to chip in or this type of WoS promo activity.
I think Rev Stu could do with some help rather than ask him to drive everything…don’t know if he’s up for it but ‘many hands’ and all that..
So who’s for setting up a new political party called the Space Monster Raving Loonie Party? Should put the wind up the tories.
It is well known that West Lothian is favoured by alien visitors. But it is a calumny to suggest that Trident will find a new home in Bathgate to see them off. By and large, they will be voting Yes, and a few of them are already on the electoral role.
So let me see if this is right then…..
Newsnicht viewing figures (most generous reading) 75 000
Divided by
Scots electorate 4 000 000 (approx)
Multiplied by 100
= 1.875% viewer penetration. Really?
Suddenly the web doesn’t seem quite such the backwater of politico sados as it’s always being portrayed to be. It also explains and underlines all this Unionist fervour behind the whole cybernat demonisation schtic!
Of course I probably have made some stupid elementary mistake, as even LabourHame got 4% FFS! (Ducks for cover!)
I don’t think you want to do another poll too soon, but you should definitely do at least one more poll at some point. Otherwise Project Fear and the Unionist Media will portray it as a ‘rogue poll’.
What about a TV advert on STV? Another fundraiser probably required for that, though, particularly if you’re going for the Corrie slot 🙂
A Metro ad / Billboard ads would be good.
Great work Rev. We knew you would do it. Thank you.
“Of course I probably have made some stupid elementary mistake”
No mistakes as such, but a slightly apples-and-oranges comparison. We only asked if people had HEARD of the websites, not if they read them regularly. Those Newsnicht viewing figures will be nightly averages, and we’ve still never had 75,000 readers in a single day (or anywhere close). We have no idea how many people don’t watch Newsnicht but have still HEARD of it.
Very well done.
Thank you.
“I think Rev Stu could do with some help rather than ask him to drive everything…don’t know if he’s up for it but ‘many hands’ and all that..”
This. THIS.
ianbrotherhood says:
Still think projecting ‘Project Feart‘ onto Pacific Quay is a winner. No idea what it would cost, but have the contact details.
I’ve got a 3000 lumen projector and 240V power tank that would do the job nicely 🙂
I’d be willing to loan them to any brave souls. All you need is a laptop with a suitable graphic to project.
Rev
eh ? EH ?
Rev,
Yes, I would call that pretty elementary! (But still…..)
@rabb-
Oh yes. Yes.
I’ll put up the laptop if someone does the graphics. WoS readers could get to vote on which is their favoured design and/or slogan. We could, I suppose, do more than one?
I’d also suggest that we prepare and do this in plain view – are we feart? If so, of what? Is it illegal?
The BBC will become aware, one way or another, that we’re going to do it. But that doesn’t mean we have to tell them precisely when. (Then again, we could make it a proper ‘event’, do a Press Release etc, have a wee party.) We could decide to choose a date which proves particularly embarrassing for the BBC – anyone know if any high-profile guests are due to visit, or if any ‘live’ events are scheduled in the vicinity of Pacific Quay?
This is all just off the top of my napper, but you get the general drift.
It’s do-able.
Anyone else up for it?
“I don’t think you want to do another poll too soon”
No, not too soon. But there’s nothing wrong with doing one in, say, three months. There’s a long way to go yet, we don’t need to spend every penny before it burns a hole in our pockets.
Macart
I think you should stick with the chocolate raisins Less likely to get you into trouble than your latest idea (whisky tasting)
You see things and ask “Why?”; I dream things that never were and ask “Why not?”
~George Bernard Shaw
Great job Stu. I sometimes think the key to this – or any campaign – might be having the imagination to do something a little different.
“I’ve got a 3000 lumen projector and 240V power tank that would do the job nicely”
Okay, now all we need is a “Better Together” event venue and someone whose house overlooks it 😀
Guys, your projection onto the side of Pacific Quay will need to be done at night – in daylight you won’t be able to see it, so I doubt the important guest thing will work – could do it in winter The projector you’re taking about would need to be within 100 feet or so of the building, probably closer – which means security would be on to you in a flash. Other thing – power ! Unless you plan to heave a load of heavy duty batteries along, you’re going to need a generator.
Check this out for comparison. Remember Gail Porter projected onto the House of Parliament ?
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00221/74445876_FHM_221054b.jpg
Hire a cinema projector/ a generator and a van – you’ve got the laptop and park your vehicle on the other side of the Clyde in the car park and project it right across the river onto the BBC. Keep everything in the back of the van and you’re mobile, just fire it all up and open the back doors – Guerilla style !
How about a coalition of some of the Indy sites/blogs chipping together for a shared ad campaign – the Underground Stream Media and the wellspring of the real debate, as not seen on TV?
Good stuff Rev.
Maybe a bit early to write off MSM impact. With all the stats now on the panelbase website lets keep any eye out next week to see where this goes.
It is undoubtedly news worthy and there is interesting content there. With the state of the newspaper industry you would think they should be jumping on an easy story with ‘free’ polling info like this. Failure to cover would just nail there bias and pro-union leaning to the mast so lets wait and see. Looking at you BBC Scotland.
ianbrotherhood says:9 August, 2013 at 8:35
Still think projecting ‘Project Feart‘ onto Pacific Quay is a winner. No idea what it would cost, but have the contact details.
Excellent count me in
Or project the WoS logo into the night sky Batman style ? 🙂
Congratulation on having the idea, designing some clever questions, and a superb analysis of the responses.
This is truly first class work and it gives me a strange sense of pride, somewhat undeservedly as I did sod all.
So, thank you.
Ianbrotherhood and Rabb,
How about drawing up a hit list of high profile and/or establishment buildings to target as an on going campaign. Each building could be reccied and a bespoke political artwork or slogan designed for projecting onto it.
This would give max visual impact on the night and may gain more publicity by instilling a ‘where’s next?’ element as well as logically extending it’s duration as a series.
Plus, I love wanky ‘political artwork’ (and so do Sunday supplements etc). wink
“How about a coalition of some of the Indy sites/blogs chipping together for a shared ad campaign”
I don’t think the other ones want to be associated with us… 😀
I have a hypothesis ; the 4% of people who have never heard of Alex Salmond must be the same people who are afraid of being attacked by space monsters. There must be a ‘twilight zone’ in Scotland somewhere where these people exist – anyone want to guess where?
Bonnybridge!
Why do I get the crawling suspicion that a poll showing that more people believed Scotland was under threat from space monsters than believed there would be a Yes vote next year would have received blanket coverage….?
There was one where respondents put an independent Scotland by 2070 and a manned mission to Mars by the same date at comparable levels of probability – I don’t remember the exact details. The BBC led on that, spinning it as if that made it really unlikely. Actually, since there were successful manned missions to the moon nearly 50 years ago, and there have been numerous successful unmanned missions to Mars, the concept that there will be a manned mission to Mars some time in the next 57 years or so is probably a racing certainty.
Here’s one from Fantasy-land: we hire one of those cabin cruisers for the evening (a nice one!) and have a WoS party on-board. Guests pay enough to cover costs – then we sail up the Clyde, right outside the BBC, and project away to our hearts’ content.
tartanfever
I have already tested this outside work with the projector and power tank setup in the back of my car (I have a 4X4 with the rear window opened). It works an absolute treat. Obviously we won’t be projecting at 11am in the morning 🙂
I also have a 1500W inverter which can connect straight on to a car battery and power the projector for a couple of hours on a full charge.
The plan is make a jig in the boot that everything sits in. All I need to do is open the window, point and project 🙂
If we’re parked legally off BBC land without causing an obstruction then it’s game on (as long as we can be in range).
I’m on!
No but seriously, we need some practical suggestions, not stuff that will be dismissed as a cheap student stunt. Or even an expensive student stunt.
If enough of us are serious about this, we could hammer out the details at, or after, the Calton Hill gathering.
No but seriously, we need some practical suggestions, not stuff that will be dismissed as a cheap student stunt
Can’t we have both?
@mato21
All in the interests of our exploring our export capabilities post YES vote…. (cough)
Love the idea of projecting a Project Feart message above a BT venue. Wonder if you could mix the two ideas? 😀
UP WITH THAT SORT OF THING.
I cannot believe the prejudice on open display in these latest findings: how can 4% of Scots truly believe that our benevolent alien masters are any sort of threat? The use of the term “space monsters” is similarly highly offensive and derogatory, and I DEMAND an apology on behalf of our reptilian insectoid squidlords. Luckily the rest of the Scots realise there is no true danger, though I can’t imagine why 5% would think trident would form any sort of harm to non-corporeal transdimensional beings such as Our Dear Leaders.
Excellent work Rev. but you’re going to look a complete prat when the Klingons land.
@ Ian brotherhood , I’m right up for that mate, if you need an accomplice gies a shout, that would be some giggle.
Look how close we could get if we’re on the river:
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44128000/jpg/_44128001_pqexterior416.jpg
One of the things that seems to have come out of this poll is that Scots like the idea of independence as long as you don’t call it independence.
So lets change it to :-
Wer’e nae Feart – campaign.
We can dee it Better – campaign.
We are deeing it Better – campaign.
Live Long & Prosper – campaign.
ideas ???
Well done Rev, a great idea taken to a great conclusion.
@ian brotherhood, I can provide the transport, a nice signum estate with loads of room for said projector. Go on set it up, I dare you lol
@Vronsky, aww naw no the Klingons, they are feckin hard work. I would rather see the feranghis, they are at least up for a laugh, Klingons are just wankers.
Just remembered that boats are wobbly. Not ideal for projecting stuff from.
(Slaps head, downs another half pint of Lambrini…)
PS Alex Mcl – quite a wee gang we’re getting together here. It’s like The Seven Samurai…or Magnificent Seven, whatever (Bagsie me the guy who could catch three flies when he was sober.)
Klingons…. pansies.
Now the great old ones from Sirius. Once Cthulu raises ancient Rlyeh from ancient deeps beyond Ponape, then you’ll all be sorry we chucked trident.
Ianbrotherhood et al,
remember this is a public forum. Not the best place to be organising any kind of surprise party.
(smilywink)
All these ideas folk have buzzing around their heads – can anyone imagine the No camp doing this? Does the idea of continued union get folk excited and creative as the idea of independence does?
I’m being rhetorical obviously, but it’s great to see. This is why we’re going to win this thing.
@ Ian brotherhood , I know the perfect spot for projection, worked on a sitejust down the road, and anyway, what’s anyone going to say to me if I park in their car park and do it. It’s not against the law. Worst they could try is a breach of the peace. No trespass law in Scotland. Seriously if someone can arrange this I will camp out all night handcuffed to the projecter.
Ianbrotherhood,
bagsie me the young handsome ‘boy’ who get’s to sleep with the village girl and survives. (from either film, I don’t mind!)
Just spoken to mate with an uninterupted view of Edinburgh Castle, flat on Princess St asked him if we could use it to project onto the castle. He’s thinking about it.
ianbrotherhood
Look how close we could get if we’re on the river:
BBC might not be the best candidate as they have a glass facade and have the lights on all night.
Lads, could you just not aim at a cloud fa a roof, hill etc, plenty about and their free.
Just a thought,
Ianbrotherhood, Rab, tartanfever and Alex Mcl etc.
I’m back home in October, any chance I would be on time to help and be allowed to take part in the planning?
@ rabb , good point. So how about the armadillo or somewhere near it. There’s some mental looking flats on the water front across from pacific key. Or the Titan crane right next to it. This ones do able. I think it’s time for us independence supporters tae step it up a gear. Enough of the fancying about talking to ourselves.
I thought about getting a series of projectors and line them up across the campsie hills to spell out “VOTE YES 2014” or such like.
Here’s another idea
We print out loads of QR codes on wee business cards and leave them lying all over the shop like buses, trains, underground, pubs etc.
Punters get curious and scan the QR codes with their phones and it takes them to WoS.
It’s all taking shape.
(Okay, the shape is nebulous, but there’s something there…)
The one word which comes to mind, reading all of this, and thinking of the events which have unfolded since the idea of a poll first flickered, then burned, is …… RESPECT! Well done, Rev Stu, and all the subsequent commenters. The zeitgeist of this reminds me of my youth …. the spirit of punk in the late seventies, when not only COULD the establishment be challenged, but SHOULD be challenged! It was our duty. The grey faces of Better Together are the same ones as were around then …. even the suits are the same 🙂
@ Braco , as I said let’s do it. Lets stop all the talking amongst ourselves . I’m up for some covert nonsense. I’m not clued up enough to articulate the independence narrative on a intellectually site like wings. But I’m game for a laugh, and not really feart of the polis
Alex,
I’m up for it. The more targets we can identify the better. We could start planning this properly and get other areas around the country setup and organised too.
“”All these ideas folk have buzzing around their heads – can anyone imagine the No camp doing this?””
Och give them some credit. They must have some imagination coming up with all the nutty scare stories. And if they run out, the Rev’s just provided them with a handy list of the top thing that terrify the Scots 😉
Alex,
I’m well up for it and not really bothered about the cops either. I’m aiming to get back for mid October.
As I say though, maybe this forum is not the place to be hammering out the ideas if we aim for the element of surprise?
@ Rabb, wood side flats. Viewable from all ove the city, the patterns on the side are shit, but how Many folk are going clock the big WOS sign or that.
seriously troops, its time we were heard , fuck all these pretend politicians telling lies to us all let’s grab a hold of this and run with it. Seriously whit are they going to do about it?
@ Braco, of course your right about the element of surprise. But I’m available for any of this stuff. Anyone who is a good organiser let me know and I’m there.
one thing I must ask for is, that Yes Scotland or someone like that who is funded, send me loads of copies of McCrone, GERS 2006, stuff like that. I’m out of cash here for printer ink . And ave three guys waiting on McCrone print outs?
I like the idea of billboards with the “what they say/what they don’t tell you” graphics I saw on the WoS twitter feed.
Put them up with a slogan along the lines of “Scrutinising from Above; WingsoverScotland.com”?
I’d also like to say right now I’m willin to contribute again! *throws wallet* TAKE IT ALL!
@Alex McL-
You’re right.
Why don’t we agree to meet somewhere and get it sorted? No point in all the cloak and dagger stuff – this site will have been well-monitored for yonks, and the security services will know who we are already. (Who knows – some of them might secretly support what we’re up to.)
Here’s an opening suggestion for a meeting-place – the Horseshoe Bar, Glasgow.
The Better Together Ideas department
Time and date Ian brotherhood and I’m there. But If you want i will send my address to Rev Stu , who can give it to all you lot who fancy this. I don’t care, whit they going to do to me. I’m in attack mode now , so fucking send it on.
@AlexMcl-
Fair do’s, but I suspect Rev has enough on his plate, so here’s my e-mail:
ian@stevenston4.fsnet.co.uk
If we get in touch with each other (and if anyone else wants to send me their details, no problem) we can arrange a time and place. If it turns out that The Horseshoe’s a viable venue, we could meet, say, end of next week?
I’m hitting the sack now, so won’t reply to any messages before tomorrow morning. But I will reply.
Cheers all – a productive and stimulating evening indeed!
Haud oan, aye its fine aw this malarky but whit about the consequences? Ye ken, our feeling of uncertainty, the Cringe, have ye forgotten? .Whit’s needed is some mature cautious heids. Mature heids wi nothing tae lose – so count me in.
The Horseshoe wi’ Queen Victoria picture? Whits that bar in Stockwell Sreet that singers frequent?
@velofello
Do you mean the Scotia Bar?
@ Jeannie, Aye I suppose, the Scotia Bar, great for whispering plans.
@ Ian Brotherhood. Dundonald Games for me tomorrow, would be good to meet up at the Wallace Tower in Ayr some Saturday.
Another good venue, the Harbour Bar in Troon.Maybe Bugger the Panda could visit efter his waddin in Troon?
Great work Rev.
I also suggested a while ago a kind of “Fathers for Justice” campaign, with a spiderman or spiderwoman type, who would scale large buildings in front of the MSM and have dropdown in your face banners with different messages on them such as “vote Yes make Scottish history,, vote No make Scotland history”. or BBC Scotland + Scottish Labour = “PROJECT FEAR”.
Also there is nothing stopping us dropping banners with similar slogans on them, they could be from bridges, at the side of main roads or in the middle of fields so they can be seen by thousands of motorists.
So, 8% of people think that nuclear weapons in Faslane provide protection against a Tory government in Westminster? Obviously not a deterrent then.
And the good people of Iceland, Switzerland, Belgium and just about every other country in Europe must be shitting themselves, having no nuclear deterrent against North Korea invading them. What’s the point of getting up in the morning?
Interesting too that the highest scoring option is 18%, coinciding nicely with the 18% figure for Union hardliners who are never, ever going to change their minds.
Anyway, major kudos to Rev for all this fascinating stuff, it’s up to every one of us to get the word out.
I have not had the opportunity to comment for a couple of days so a huge thanks to Rev. Stu! I am very proud to have made my wee contribution towards this.
Lets get some advertising done. The Pacific quay is a good idea how about some “Wings” graphics to project elsewhere as well. Can I drive the decoy van? please 😉
Hey Rev, I managed to get Martin Amis’ “Invasion of the Space Invaders” out of Falkirk library back in the days when you could pay them 70p, fill out a small request card, and they would literally trawl through the entire British library system until they found the book you wanted. Then they would send it to your local branch, and you could go in and pick it up and take it home and everything. Somehow the computerisation of library stocks has made this system less efficient, and now they just tell you to go online and search on the British library site yourself.* Decline.
It’s a great wee book though, some excellent anecdotes from the days when arcade parlours were the traditional hang-out of glue-sniffers, borstal boys, and sexual deviants, as well as the standard game geeks. Looks like you’ve already seen the blog entry on The Millions blog about it, which has a few scans of pages from the book that you can zoom in to and read. If not:
http://www.themillions.com/2012/02/the-arcades-project-martin-amis-guide-to-classic-video-games.html
I was at an Amis book-signing in Glasgow once and mentioned the “Invasion” to him, since I don’t see anything in it for him to be ashamed of (especially considering Saturn 5 and Mars Attacks). He just gave me a withering look though, and said that my copy of Money looked “like it had been dropped on the floor a few times.” Which it had. I’d actually got it from a car-boot sale for 50p, but thought it best not to mention that to the author himself.
Anyway, “Invasion” is well worth seeking out. I hear it sells for silly money on Amazon and E-bay nowadays though.
*Will we still have access to the British Library computer system in an independent Scotland?
Some great ideas above for projections and ads. If this “campaign” has shown nothing else, there is huge untapped potential for crowdsourcing. If a few of us started doing these things, outside of the official Yes Campaign, it could open up a huge new front in this battle.
I posted this idea the other day too, very late on one of the other threads, just repeating again here, as an option for some TV ads based on Rev’s polls.
“Imagine. A pollster interviewing Joe McPublic, asking would you like welfare policy to be devolved to the Scottish government? Enthusiastic response, “Aye it’s terrible what Westminster is doing with the bedroom tax”. Follow-up question: “So would you support independence, where Scotland has the ability to decide it’s own welfare policy?” Joe McPublic, “Aw, no”. Pollster says, “Thanks for your time”, walks off, and camera drifts back to Joe McPublic with a strange quizzical expression on his face, trying to reconcile in his mind the inconsistency of the answers he has just given.”
Cue Wings Over Scotland / Panelbase survey fade-in, morphing into a Vote Yes logo with Loch Lomond piano solo in the background, or even nothing, just a view of Loch Lomond itself with a heartbeat should be enough.
Wish I had gone into advertising instead… where are all the advertising / marketing people on here? I hope they’re all busy preparing for next year, but we have a huge responsibility ourselves to make this happen.
Projecting onto football stands during evening games? loads of views/talking points.
Any big building at night will do and in my experience, people will phone each other to come and have a look. the wings logo/name .com will get a lot of youngsters curious (advertisers heaven)
ianbrotherhood says: @ 8:35 pm
Get a price please
BtP
and no I am not the (alleged) faither.
Velofellow
It is an all day waddin in Troon on Sunday at the Piersland House Hotel.
I’ll be in Glasgow from Wednesday 22nd until I drive to an Ayr hotel on the Sunday prior kitting up for the Waddin. I’m staying at Babbity Bowsters in Glasgow.
So now the BTG squad know to down play the prospects of the Tories winning the next election.
Shouldn’t the results of this poll been passed to YES Scotland and kept away from prying eyes. Surely YES should have been given the benefit of the poll and no one else!
No, of course not.
Yes Scotland has its own polling.
Clydebuilt,
I regard the betterNO campaign to be just as incompetent as the next person does, maybe more so, but even I didn’t think their promised ‘new and positive’ campaign for the Union was to be centered around the delights offered to Scotland by the inevitable and certain victory of the Conservative and Unionist Party in the Westminster elections of 2015!
Did you?
BT already knew that the Yes vote will soar if the punters think the Tories will win in 2015. There are already published polls about it and they are perfectly capable of commissioning their own.
This is lovely stuff! Oh, well done! I haven’t digested it all and perhaps never will because I was laughing too much at the data about the scariest things. Tories more scary than terrorists and space monsters and just about everything, and probably lions and tigers and bears, oh my. Haha. Then I stopped to realise that it’s pretty damn accurate.
And of course, a Tory government (by whatever name) is a much more clear and present danger than terrorists (and I haven’t given any thought, really, to space monsters, although perhaps I ought to).
Oh, I know it’s serious and our futures depend on it and all that, but it’s also the best laugh I’ve had in ages. 🙂
I’m certain the mainstream news media will be fascinated by this and just dying to share it with all their readers. Surely? Especially given the amount of silly season stuff there is, they must be thrilled to have a good meaty poll to have a look at. Surely? 🙂
Of course, they might just also be wondering what would happen if they asked their readers to crowd-fund something useful. Would they hit 400% of target so quickly? Nah, don’t answer that. 🙂
THESE ARE A FEW QUESTIONS THAT i THINK NEED ANSWERING
Q. WHO OWNS THE WAR HEADS THAT ARE IN THE NUCLEAR SUBMARINES
A. IS IT NOT THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT
Q. IS IT TRUE THAT AMERICA ALONE HAS THE AUTHORITY TO LAUNCH
THESE NUCLEAR WARHEADS .
A. I BELIEVE THAT TO BE THE CASE AND THAT WE ARE PAYING THE TAB
FOR HOUSING THESE WEAPONS ON SCOTTISH SOIL AND AMERICA OWNS
THEM
Q. IS IT TRUE THAT RUSSIA HAS ALREADY BEEN GIVEN THE CODES FOR
THESE WARHEADS
A
WHY IS WESTMINSTER NOT TELLING THE PEOPLE THE TRUTH ABOUT WHO OWNS THESE WARHEADS AND WHY ARE THEY PLAYING GAMES WITH THE LIVES OF THE POPULATION OF SCOTLAND BY CONTINUING THIS CHARADE THAT WE OWN THEM – THE WARHEADS ARE ONLY HERE IN THE UK TO KEEP THE AMERICAN / WESTMINSTER FRIENDSHIP GOING
And of course in order to change the targeting codes for our missiles (which we only lease from the US anyway) in order to attack Space Monsters, Iran, North Korea or China we would need to ask the US for new codes. Either they would be very busy with either WWIII or Space Monsters and even trailing a communications buoy to receive them makes the subs now vulnerable to detection with technology now. How much easier would it be for Space Monsters?
Furthermore, what about the other nuclear weapons states: India, Pakistan and of course Israel? I personally do not rate the likelihood of any of them attacking Scotland any higher than Iran (which is not proven to be seeking a nuclear weapon, let alone to possess one). As a New Zealander Iran is a valued and friendly trading partner. NZ sells agritech to Iran and specialists in that area are constantly backwards and forwards without any problems.
Don’t believe our paranoid media, Iran is no threat to the UK, or Scotland. It might posture towards Sunni Saudi Arabia and act via various proxies (as does Saudi) but a major regional war with the US in the middle is very, very unlikely. And of course the states most likely to use nukes in that scenario are Israel, the US and maybe neighbouring Pakistan.