The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


The trouble with remembering

Posted on July 04, 2022 by

One might almost imagine that once every Parliament, a drawing of lots is conducted at The Times’ offices in Scotland and the loser is obliged to write this column, on pain of a ceremonial debagging and a jolly good paddling with an old cricket bat from all the other chaps in the newsroom.

Perhaps the fear is playing tricks with Alex Massie’s memory.

Because in fact Kenny Farquharson’s attempt at the same column in 2017 might easily have persuaded unattentive readers that it WAS a prediction, with the major clue being the words “my prediction”.

(The repeated use of “will be”, rather than Massie’s “could be”, also offered a hint.)

Both columns are arrant nonsense, of course, and we could meticulously analyse all the compelling reasons why here, but we’re still officially retired and we can’t really be bothered. We’ll make one observation, though.

Anas Sarwar became Scottish Labour leader in February 2021. The next Holyrood election is in May 2026, which is 63 months later. Out of a total of nine full-time heads of the branch office before Sarwar, the number who have lasted that long in the job is… one. (Jack McConnell, from 2001 to 2007.)

Donald Dewar: 16 months

Henry McLeish: 12 months

Jack McConnell: 69 months

Wendy Alexander: 9 months

Iain Gray: 39 months

Johann Lamont: 34 months

Jim Murphy: 6 months

Kezia Dugdale: 24 months

Rudyard Lanyard: 38 months

AVERAGE: 27.4 months

You get more job security in the Sugababes, or playing bass for The Fall. Anas Sarwar would have to more than double the average lifespan of a Scottish Labour leader to even contest the next Holyrood election, let alone win it. If you’re reading, Alex, name your bet and we’re in.

Print Friendly

    148 to “The trouble with remembering”

    1. Ian McCubbin says:

      Never for a moment thought he had any hope of getting there, lol Patrick Harvie has a greater chance and even he has little.

    2. Hatuey says:

      Rudyard Lanyard?

    3. Andy Ellis says:

      Alex did at least get one thing right: the Farq did…. and does…look like a walloper.

    4. Black Joan says:

      Rudyard Lanyard.

      Thank you for reappearing at such a time of need, Rev.

    5. Dave R says:

      These types of predictions are almost entirely wish fulfillment from unionist commentators as well as being the usual propaganda messaging to keep the establishment parties in the news. Real life is thankfully a different kettle of fish.

    6. Mark Boyle says:

      Short memories: a problem in both Yoon and Scottish nationalist camps these days … ho hum …

    7. John Green says:

      Rudyard Lanyard, priceless

    8. Craig says:

      Who the fuck is Rudyland Lanyard???

    9. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      Some readers apparently have even shorter memories than Alex Massie 🙁

    10. Soda says:

      The reason we will never again see a labour First Minister is stunningly simple…

      All the careerists, hangers on and gravy train riders have all jumped aboard the SNP express to nowhere…

      As well as all the x-labour voters sadly.

      We swapped one bunch of ‘The Struggle’ bullshitters for another.

    11. Andy Ellis says:

      Talking of Lanyards, whatever happened to Balustrade Lanyard…?

      Didn’t he marry a recently imprisoned former SNP MP, or did I imagine that…?

    12. Republicofscotland says:

      So Henry Jackson Society favourite Jim Murphy only lasted six months as BLiS manager, Hmm… it felt much longer than that. The highlight of his tenure as BLiS manger in Scotland was his egging by Sean Clerkin.

      Both STV news and Reporting Scotland showing Anas Sarwar talking at the Fabian Society, followed by a solemn looking Sarwar sternly (eyebrows furrowed) telling a news reporter outside Westminster, that Labour will make no deals with the SNP at Westminster with the next GE in mind.

      Back home in Scotland at Holyrood, BLiS will continue to fight it out with the Tories for second place. Sarwar won’t last as BLiS manager in Scotland until 2026.

    13. shiregirl says:

      I’m loving this. Like old times.
      It’s been good reading the posts again – familiar names and there is always Kenny F to poke fun at.

      I’m really hoping your posts become regular again, Rev. You give us food for thought and cheer up us nurses lunch/dinner breaks!

      The Fall…spoilt victorian child was a good ‘un!

    14. solarflare says:

      Pretty ironic that Rudyard Lanyard is one of the longest terms on that list! He was so anonymously crap everyone forgot to boot him out.

    15. Breastplate says:

      I think the Rev means Richard Leopard.

    16. Frank Gillougley says:

      What shiregirl says, with one additional observation – that Alex Massie would eat himself if he were mince (which he clearly is).

    17. George Ferguson says:

      But Richard Leonard was a good postie apparently.

    18. Soda says:

      Who the fuck is Richard Leonard??

    19. red sunset says:

      Roland Leotard was so grey he made John Major look like a rainbow

    20. Vestas says:

      …and here was me thinking it was Rupert Leotard 🙂

    21. Vestas says:

      Fucking hell, don’t the days when “the big brain” & her brother were a thing in Scots Politics seem like several lifetimes ago….

    22. Bob Mack says:

      To use Farquaharsons subline,

      “Fools make feasts and wise men eat them” Franklin.

      This dish however is too unpalatable .

    23. Aulbea1 says:

      Unforgettable icons of Scottish politics- right enough ?

    24. mike cassidy says:

      I was stunned to discover Ricardo Leonardo was leader for so long.

      And he’s still an MSP

      Though probably no longer expecting to be the first English First Minister of Scotland

    25. George Ferguson says:

      A note of caution. Kezia Dugdale moved Labour from second to third and declared her tenure as a success. Sarwar at least from a poll viewpoint has moved from third to second. The SNP have declared they are breathing down their necks in Glasgow. A pity that neither the SNP or Labour can tell us what a woman is?

    26. Lekraw says:

      Rudyard Lanyard. 🙂 I’d almost forgotten about him. 😀

    27. Dave M says:

      Nice to see the Sugababes getting a mention.

    28. Geri says:

      Nice to go down memory lane now & again. Pity your Twitter is lost. Your Twitter *tweet your snacks* during 2015 GE results was legendary!

      I still laugh at the guy with all his shot glasses lined up with each Labour member to fall on them.

      I think Kezia taking up FMQs about how mean Wings was to her is another firm favourite from the vaults of time. Lol!

    29. Confused says:

      In the future, everyone will be Scottish Labour leader for 15 minutes.

    30. Geri says:

      Soda 6:55pm

      The SNP express to nowhere lol.

      So true. Most of them even admitting they couldn’t give a rat’s arse about indy. It’s Trans ++++
      Someone suggested the Greens was maybe a better option to be met by one of the SNP yoofs demanding their SNP membership number so he/she could have them permanently banned from the party.

      Jeez, calm doon!

      Won’t be long until they’re begging for those same members to come back.

    31. Marco McGinty says:

      @Republicofscotland
      “The highlight of his tenure as BLiS manger in Scotland was his egging by Sean Clerkin.”

      That came before he became the Great Leader. The fact that he is best known for being egged in public, says it all about his achievements as a politician and branch manager!

    32. PhilM says:

      People can take the piss out of Richard Leonard all they want but how many of you can boast of a lineage that includes the first person to discover a nugget of ‘purest Green’?
      Exactly…

    33. Geri says:

      Marco

      Don’t forget fundamundely

      Oh, & his crate.

      *Answer the wummin, Jim* on repeat. You could tell he was going to lose his shit any.minute.now! LOL

      Them were the day’s! He was given the BMiS gig for *effort*

    34. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      Ah some light entertainment some do not recognise Mr Leotard but many ask what is Scottish Labour.

    35. North chiel says:

      The new “ Britnat Labour “ dynamic duo , Starmer & Sarwar or “ Starwars” , pie in the sky guff at the Fabian society with the usual 50 year old (and still waiting ) pish about abolishing the House of Lords . Aye right Sarwar , is this the best you can come up with ?

    36. Breeks says:

      https://twitter.com/blairanderson35/status/1542970078752395265

      Look at this retarded fuckwit.

      “Alba have no place in the independence campaign nor in our ward”.

      These Transbollux bullshitting dickheads are going destroy Scotland’s chances of Independence, if they haven’t already wrecked them.

      I have this terrible sinking feeling that Scottish Independence needs to suffer the SNP’s style of IndyRef to crash and burn badly just to purge the movement of all these charlatans, careerists, and campaign hijackers. Then we must hope the movement can rise like a Phoenix afterwards, and pick up the pieces of what’s left of Scotland.

      But then, when you stare into the Abyss, there is something which stirs in the subconscious; this hatred and division in the Independence Movement has it’s basis in what? We have an SNP and Green Party which hates ALBA more that they hate Tories.

      This “problem” isn’t a natural problem. It’s been genetically engineered in Frankenstein’s laboratory, and Scotland’s Party of Independence has been systematically, and systemically, destroyed, to the extent that what was once our greatest strength is now our greatest liability.

      Sturgeon has wrecked everything she has touched, and even destroyed the SNP’s internal capacities to mend itself.

      “IF” this was a difference in ideology, if it’s origins lay in a fundamental difference of philosophy, we would see it in physical form. We would be able to stand back and compare Alex Salmond’s Independence philosophy with Nicola Sturgeon’s, and draw conclusions about who’s right and who’s wrong.

      But we can’t do that, because Sturgeon’s “Campaign” has been to burn down everything which Alex Salmond built with such careful attention to detail, and in it’s place, Sturgeon has built nothing. Not a thing.

      This is not the work of a leader. It reeks of sedition and insurrection. It reeks of clandestine interference from forces hostile to Independence, yet we’re expected to believe it’s all down to Nicola Sturgeon’s sociopathic megalomania; a “real” Manchurian Candidate.

      Until we get to the bottom of this, we cannot trust the foundations of anything new that we build.

      I believe it is now IMPERATIVE that we have a different banner and different leadership, or we are on course for a disaster.

      We need either YES Movement which takes a leading role, or the Constitutional People’s Grand Assembly.

    37. David Thomson says:

      In place of Plan A, there is no Plan B.

      (Alex Massie)

    38. Ruby says:

      Iain Gray was my favourite.

      I loved his performance ‘The Killing Fields of Union Street’.

      https://tinyurl.com/3ekrckdv

    39. Ruby says:

      Project Fear has re-started

      ‘Scotland may be blocked from EU if it axes Trident rapidly’
      Some professor

      “Scottish independence would be “utterly tragic for the whole world.” Boris Johnson

      “Later, in response to a question from Tory MP, Brendan Clarke Smith, the Prime Minister told the House that the “Scottish contribution to our armed service is immense.”

      “Everybody knows it,” he added. “It’s a fantastic thing, it helps to make the UK, what it is. It will be utterly tragic for the whole world if the UK armed services were to face a division of that kind, or an obstacle of that kind.”

    40. GlesgaJim says:

      “You get more job security in the Sugababes”…quite brilliant, Sir!

      or…going on an away mission with Kirk, Spock and McCoy…wearing a different coloured jumper. 🙂

    41. Ruby says:

      I suppose if you say

      Scottish Indepedence would be utterly tragic for life the universe & everything

      you’ve got all bases covered.

    42. Mark Boyle says:

      Ah, and who can forget Wendy ‘The Boy From Brazil That Got Away’ Alexander – the unacceptable face of Scottish Labour, of Scottish politics, of Scotland in general.

      I’d the misfortune to encounter the loathsome creature at an election count, and thought if Labour were ever stupid enough to give her any sort of prominent role, it would be the SNP, Tories and LibDems Christmas come early. I was wrong: it was their Christmas, birthdays and summer holidays rolled into one, daily.

      From climbing over a back wall to gatecrash a First Minister’s party she hadn’t been invited to, to her arsecheek clenchingly awful Henry The Hungry Caterpillar soliloquy in Holyrood attack on the SNP which made Delia Smith’s drunken rant to the Carrow Road fans look inspired, her self-certainty of one day turning Holyrood into a Wendy House were masked by a shocking lack of self-awareness.

      Crass and patronising, she epitomised the wilfully out of touch spoilt middle class brats that had hijacked Labour and no longer even bothered to hide rubbing their working class ground troops noses in it in the process – until Slippery Jim came along she was the best Recruiting Sergeant the SNP ever had.

    43. footsoldier says:

      Alex Massie is itching to be taken seriously. Must be something to do with the debris hiding in that terrible beard he currently sports.Time for a clear out or a trim even.

    44. Ottomanboi says:

      I wonder what contribution the Sarwar family made to demolishing the Brit Raj.
      Only when Sarwar senior moves to Scotland is there any «history».
      https://archive.ph/xz4Mi
      (Pakistan is anti Russia, because India is pro.)
      and the Military…how «loyal» and to whom?

    45. Andy Ellis says:

      Folk could do worse than refer those fluffing for Labour’s branch office in Scotland to New Scot Mark Frankland’s open letter to Lisa Nandy from January 2020, available here:

      https://marksimonfrankland.blogspot.com/2020/01/an-open-letter-to-lisa-nandy-mp.html

      Worth reproducing I think….!

      Dear Lisa

      I have just watched your interview with Andrew Neil and I am absolutely furious: furious enough to slam a few words down on paper in the form of this open letter.

      Some background. I was born and raised a few miles up the road from the constituency you now represent – Blackburn. In 1989 I became the white half of a mixed race couple. Soon we had two brown boys and by the mid 90’s it was abundantly clear Blackburn was no place to raise two mixed race boys. A septic tide of racism was starting to seep into every brick of the town and the BNP were strutting their stuff. So we ran. We fled a hundred miles north up the M6 and found ourselves a new future in Scotland.

      I never felt English, but after twenty five years I feel very Scottish. They call us New Scots up here. And being a New Scot has meant my two boys have had the chance to grow up in a country where racism barely exists. The BNP never managed more than 1% up here. UKIP and the Brexit Party never made it past 4%.

      How dare you make up fairytales about “narrow, divisive Nationalism.”? And how dare you criticise the Scottish Government for a record which you describe as “frankly appalling.”? I think it is time for a few home truths. We still regularly visit my wife’s family who live in Lancaster. When they need to see the GP they have to wait over a month for an appointment. We get one in no more than two days. When they pick up their prescriptions, they pay through the nose. Ours are free. When they park up at the hospital, they pay through the nose. When we park it is free. When my nieces and nephews look to university, they have to get their heads around the idea of living with a minimum of £30,000 of debt. If they lived up here, it would be free. English prisons are overcrowded to boiling point, Dumfries Prison is seldom more than 70% full. At eight o’clock in the morning in Lancaster almost every shop doorway is home to a homeless person. In Dumfries there is not a single one.

      And I know about this stuff by the way – I manage the region’s largest food bank. A few months back I handed out a food parcel to a young lad who had been made homeless in Manchester. After a few weeks on the streets, he decided to make use of his last worthwhile possession – his bike. He hit the road and headed north. He stopped at town after town to apply for a bed for the night and he was turned away every time – Wigan, Blackburn, Preston, Lancaster, Kendal, Penrith, Carlisle…. until he crossed the border. Into Scotland. And when he applied for homeless accommodation in Dumfries, he was given a room for the night straight away. So how dare you take to the airwaves to accuse my Government of a “frankly appalling record.”

      However, that statement pales into insignificance in comparison to what you had to say about our demands for a second Independence referendum. You actually suggested the UK should look to other countries for some clues on how to deal with “narrow, divisive” nationalism. And you actually cited Spain’s handling of Catalonia as a shining example.

      As a New Scot, I have come to be a fervent supporter of the dream of independence. In the 2014 referendum I took the ‘Yes’ side in many debates. Over the years, I have written lots of blogs on the subject and nearly a million readers have read them. I guess it is fair to say I wear my heart on my sleeve. I am allowed to do this because I still live in a country where free speech is still allowed and tolerated. And every time I post a blog, I feel lucky and take a moment to remember all those who paid a heavy price for fighting to free their nations from the rule of London.

      In Ireland. In India. In Aden. In Israel. In Kenya. In Ghana.

      It’s a long, long list. A shameful litany of imprisonment and beatings for those who dared to defy their London masters.

      You seem impressed by the Spanish Government’s handling of the Catalonian Independence movement. Well, I’m not. If I was posting my blog in Catalonia, I would be in prison by now. And if I had joined a march for independence, I would have been beaten within an inch of my life by Spanish riot police. And by now, my leaders would either be living in exile or imprisoned for years. And this is how you think the likes of me should be treated? This is the shining example of good practice you feel the Westminster Government should aspire to? Well, shame on you Lisa Nandy.

      No wonder your party is down to one MP in Scotland.

      Mark Frankland
      New Scot
      January 2020

    46. Breastplate says:

      Ellis,
      That is an excellent letter.
      Well done to Mark.

    47. Ottomanboi says:

      https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/scottish-independence-and-implications-british-defence
      The anti independence narrative is moving on. Defending England/BritState is now the issue.
      Supporters of Scottish sovereignty as possibly Russian stoogies/agents is hot right now.
      NATO is in rather a bind over awkward member Turkey. A truly independent Scotland, with ideas of its own re defence matters, might not be welcome.
      With 50% of Scots happy with the status quo, BritState has a lot of toys to play wrecking games with.
      Interesting times…and that Covid thingy on the way back too. Heads up for serial lockdowns.
      October 2023 looks promising for one.

    48. Mark Boyle says:

      Andy,

      Excellent letter that delivered a well earned ‘Telt!’ to Lisa Nandy.

      Two points:

      1. “Blackburn. In 1989 I became the white half of a mixed race couple. Soon we had two brown boys and by the mid 90’s it was abundantly clear Blackburn was no place to raise two mixed race boys. A septic tide of racism was starting to seep into every brick of the town and the BNP were strutting their stuff.”

      Blackburn’s been racist for decades, the result of the disastrous ghettoisation policies of Labour councils. New Commonwealth incomers would be dumped in empty housing awaiting being repaired and made habitable again, as a “temporary, emergency measure”. Suffice to say the new residents would have to wait decades in some instances for the repairs …

      It was the first place in the UK to return openly racist far right candidates in a contested council election – two in fact, for the National Party UK in 1976, a breakaway from the NF founded by its former leader John Kingsley Read (who later turned out to be an undercover anti-Nazi, arguably the most effective there ever was, and who died in 1985 under very mysterious circumstances …)

      2. Being a New Scot has meant my two boys have had the chance to grow up in a country where racism barely exists. The BNP never managed more than 1% up here. UKIP and the Brexit Party never made it past 4%.

      Racism always had little chance up here – contrary to Aamar Anwar – because sectarianism was already the established and indeed institutionalised bloodsport for the lower orders.

      UKIP and the Brexit Party both had non-white candidates – indeed, one of the early UKIP activists was Jamaican TV cook Rusty Lee (Unlike Dr David Bellemy, it didn’t sabotage her TV career). The Brexit Party had the only Afro-Caribbean ever to be elected as an MEP from the UK, and the only openly gay one at that!

    49. Alison Whiteford says:

      I’d forgotten all about Rudyard Lanyard. Then I thought ahh yes the one with the scarf.

    50. Geri says:

      Ruby 8:20 am

      The usual Tory military porn then?

      I’m sure they’ll get over it. They’re world beating. Those feckers would have zero hesitation in using Scots military against Scots.
      Just as Mayhem threatened police Scotland to *use the full force of the law* to any pesky notions Scots had regards safe drug consumption rooms.

    51. Ron Maclean says:

      ‘What is the reality of racism in Scotland?’ By Jean Johansson – BBC Disclosure – 3 April – bbc.co.uk

    52. Effigy says:

      The Record home of the Vow Wow Con trick announces SNP Gov have a black hole in their finances.

      Should we compare this to the Labour Blair/Brown party kicked out after leaving the treasury
      penniless and a £305 Billion PPI debt or perhaps this Tory government with the largest debt levels since world war 2.

    53. Breastplate says:

      Ottomanboi,
      Yes, it’s long been known that Scottish independence would be a major blow for what is now the Uk.
      It has been quite clear that the security services of this Union see it as a massive threat and have done for decades.

      That this is now openly admitted is good, it should be made known to Scottish people that we and our country are seen as assets and that a loss of those assets are a threat to the Uk but that can be equated to England.

      The Uk security services aren’t really the Uk security services, they are England’s security services because they will view any and all threats through the broken prism of English nationalism.

      The security services won’t in any capacity see themselves as protectors of the democratic will of the People of Scotland,they will not try to protect the democratic process here, their job will be to thwart it in any way they can.

    54. Mark Boyle says:

      Ron Maclean says:
      5 July, 2022 at 11:19 am

      ‘What is the reality of racism in Scotland?’ By Jean Johansson – BBC Disclosure – 3 April – bbc.co.uk

      Jean Johansson, Aamar Anwar fangirl, columnist for the adult comic the Sunday Mail, presenter of fluffy television shows like “A Place In The Sun” of such startling relevence to your average minimum wage flat dweller for whom a weekend in Ayr’s about as good as it gets.

      She wouldn’t know reality if it came up and bit her in the arse, but then brought up in The Port, it comes with the territory …

    55. Derek says:

      Ah, Rhubarb Lethargic…

    56. Alf Baird says:

      Mark Boyle @ 11:31 am

      “What is the reality of racism in Scotland?”

      People often make the mistake of looking at the question of racism in Scotland from a British or rather English viewpoint and experience. This ignores certain often obscured institutionalised injustices which have prevailed in a Scotland that has been subject to Cultural and Linguistic Imperialism domination and Internal Colonialism for a very long time.

      We should remember that the main rationale for the independence of an oppressed ethnic group is their oppression by another ethnic group. Hence the independence movement reflects the solidarity of an oppressed ethnic group, i.e. the Scots:

      https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2021/08/15/determinants-of-independence-ethnicity/

    57. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ottomanboi 10.33 am

      The britnat state and establishment may find that it’s a case of diminishing returns with respect to propagating a turbo charged Project Fear headlined by defence and security Scots. Issues which are of huge concern to fringe groups, whether the Byres Road bolsheviki, candy floss haired TRA’s or Brigadoon nativists demanding votes be restricted to pure bloods fluent in Scots, tend not to resonate with the bulk of the population or the movement.

      Membership of NATO, multilateralism and a negotiated removal of WMDs from Scottish territory is much more likely to be the outcome of any post independence defence and security policy saleable to the people. Scotland will be able to spend considerably less on defence than it currently contributes to the UK defence budget and yet have a more balanced policy which better secures the interests of the Scottish people, and contributes towards peace keeping operations and disaster relief.

      A Scottish government can also ensure that more of the defence budget is spent in Scotland, support Scottish industries and companies and providing more jobs and investment.

      I have my doubts there will be many takers for the option of splendid isolation or being outside NATO, however much a minority of folk in the movement would like to see it. Given we’re currently looking at 50/50-ish split in the polls, it’s pretty likely that those “soft No” voters we need to persuade to switch will by and large be mainstream, multilateralist, pro NATO, pro EU. It shouldn’t be that hard to sell them the idea of Scotland’s place being along side the neighbours like Denmark, Norway and Iceland which the independence movement has consistently aspired to emulate. The decision of Sweden and Finland to join NATO will surely only amplify that tendency?

    58. Ron Maclean says:

      @Mark Boyle 11:31am

      I’ve read your comment. I’ll leave it at that.

    59. Geri says:

      Breastplate

      Yes. My use of Police Scotland maybe wasn’t a good example on the Tory porn of *law enforcement* as demonstrated by Mayhem having an episode of hers in the HoC – but suffice to say their boss & those of the military – resides squarely in England.

      It’s a reserved matter.

    60. Ottomanboi says:

      BREASTPLATE. 11:27
      Indeed, it is truly wake and smell the coffee time. Scotland, its geography and ample territorial waters will not be surrendered amicably. If things turned acrimonious on the part of the established order, rather likely under a BritNat régime of the Johnson type, the Scottish side would need people capable of giving like for like, without hesitation or «cringe».
      The Global Britain project with an enhanced militarism needs a united state. It is a project that cannot be seen to have flaws.
      The seeming transformation of many in the SNP into pro Nato hawks suggests their version of independence pays tribute to that project.

    61. James Che. says:

      Mark Frankland.

      Now that is truly a new Scot,
      You have not just moved to Scotland as a geographical destination,, for a cheeper house , but your heart moved too. You feel you are Scottish,

      There is more to being, or belonging to a country than where you live, it is how you treat others, how you respect your fellow man, and this is returned back to you, it is guaranteed with your neighbours there is probability in Scotland that you will be accepted as a new Scot.

      Some move here with an arrogant attitude, and spend their time putting up fences to keep locals at bay, to distance themselves from the Scots,
      Some come here and mock and deride the Scots, when they will not bend to the will of the new incomers way of thinking.
      They come with the already held self opinionated believes that are better educated, with better judgement on what is good for the Scots.

      They never understand when they mock, scoff, deride, and name call the Scots, why the Scots never except them to be a Scot no matter how long they live here.

      MARK, you came with an open mind and a open heart to Scotland, you have been received and treated by most Scots accordingly, I wish you all the best as a continuing new Scot in Scotland in the future.

    62. Scott says:

      “Membership of NATO, multilateralism and a negotiated removal of WMDs from Scottish territory is much more likely to be the outcome of any post independence defence and security policy saleable to the people. Scotland will be able to spend considerably less on defence than it currently contributes to the UK defence budget” – Ellis

      ‘Vienna Convention On Succession Of States In Respect of Treaties’ suggests that Scotland can keep membership of NATO (other Treaties entered into by UK on Scotland’s behalf can also ‘rollover’)

      https://treaties.un.org/doc/Treaties/1996/11/19961106%2005-51%20AM/Ch_XXIII_02.pdf

      WMDs will likely have to be moved per Treaty on Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, unless Scotland already qualifies as the ‘nuclear power’.

      Who sets UK defence budget, how is Scotland’s financial contribution worked out and is it money well spent? (UK Parliament; GERS; AJAX armoured vehicles suggest not)

      All Government spending is ‘borrowed money’, Scotland could spend more on defence than now allocated or less.

    63. Geri says:

      I wonder if Yellis will be all dods of glad, come 24th October 2023, when (for example) we awake to find our ref trashed & ourselves with a gazillion ‘new’ BNP/UKippers? ?

    64. Ottomanboi says:

      ANDY ELLIS .
      To be in or out of Nato must be a home decision. Having the neighbours screaming join Nato or else is ProjFear of a different hue.
      The current proxy war with Russia is no reason to stick with dear old nurse, which might well be per se that «something worse».
      Being outside Nato does not necessarily make for isolationism or wee Scotland type thinking. Neutrality does not signify your country is a political eunuch either. It takes balls to stand up to arm twisting.

    65. Andy Ellis says:

      @Geri 1.02 pm

      I wonder if Yellis will be all dods of glad, come 24th October 2023, when (for example) we awake to find our ref trashed & ourselves with a gazillion ‘new’ BNP/UKippers? ?

      The only thing more ridiculous than the notion there will be a referendum in October 2023 is your attachment to the narrative that a gazzillion new BNP/UKippers will be influencing the result.

    66. Robert Louis says:

      I guess Sarwar knows he won’t be in post long. He also likely knows that his recent nonsense about Scotland will not win votes up here either.

      As branch manager of English Labour in Scotland, he is likely just enjoying his time, saying what his masters in London tell him, until his stint is over. ‘I was once the leader branch manager for English Labour in Scotland’, he can one day tell his bemused grandchildren.

      The same, it might be said applies to the branch managers of the other English parties, Tory and Libdem.

      Take the cash, play the branch manager. It is the pinnacle of the career of serial no-hopers like Sarwar, Dougie, the cognitively challenged linesman, and that other guy. The whole lot of them did the maths, realised this IS their big moment, and took it. They all know their policies and statements are toxic up here. Politcal prostitutes and pygmies, each and every one.

      Quite literally, they are just in it for the bragging rights, ego, more jollies to London and a bit more dosh, than regular MSPs. Happy to sell Scotland out, for a wee bit of London’s ‘gold’. A parcel of rogues you might say.

    67. Geri says:

      Ottomanboi.

      SNPs previous opposition/caution to EU membership being dropped too.

      On the (wise, imo) basis at the time of it being a barsteward to try leave one Union without rushing head first straight into another.

      Now everyone suddenly wants guarantees, Spanish validation & to know before the result of two refs (Indy & EU) is even known, on what our full EU membership status will be.

      Strewth! The SNPs own worst enemy is the SNP.

    68. Andy Ellis says:

      @Scott 12.59 pm

      WMDs will likely have to be moved per Treaty on Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, unless Scotland already qualifies as the ‘nuclear power’.

      And you point is, caller…..?

      Who sets UK defence budget, how is Scotland’s financial contribution worked out and is it money well spent? (UK Parliament; GERS; AJAX armoured vehicles suggest not)

      The current UK defence budget is £42.4 billion. I doubt many in the movement or Scotland as a whole think “we” get value for money for our (presumably, talking in “big handfuls” rather than forensic accounting terms) 9% population share contribution towards that total, which would be £3.8 billion pa.

      That would be more than a lot of equivalent small countries, so we could make an immediate “saving” by reducing the gross amount, as well as getting more bang for our buck by investing more of the spend within Scotland, promoting Scottish defence companies, shipbuilding, hi-tech industries and promoting co-operation with other countries with similar needs and capabilities.

      I doubt there would be much appetite for spending more than we already contribute, but even a reduced amount would still result in better security outcomes for Scotland. I doubt we’d have to wait for the Royal Navy to send ships from Portsmouth to chase Vlad’s navy out of the Moray Firth in future. Mind you, his ships have a habit of blowing up all by themselves if you believe his media, so maybe we don’t need to worry.

    69. Mark Boyle says:

      Alf Baird says:
      5 July, 2022 at 12:19 pm

      Mark Boyle @ 11:31 am

      “What is the reality of racism in Scotland?”

      People often make the mistake of looking at the question of racism in Scotland from a British or rather English viewpoint and experience. This ignores certain often obscured institutionalised injustices which have prevailed in a Scotland that has been subject to Cultural and Linguistic Imperialism domination and Internal Colonialism for a very long time.

      We should remember that the main rationale for the independence of an oppressed ethnic group is their oppression by another ethnic group. Hence the independence movement reflects the solidarity of an oppressed ethnic group, i.e. the Scots:

      https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2021/08/15/determinants-of-independence-ethnicity/

      Your “reply” to me appears to have hee-haw to do with either what I said or the quackumentary in question, and more to do with plugging your piece on another blog. :/

      Jean Johansson piece is classic shoulder chip entitlement narrative from those who have learned playing the race card – especially in areas with more left-leaning political organisations in power – acts as both psychological compensation for one’s own deficiencies and as a bonus boost to one’s advancement in lieu of the required ability and talent. People like Trevor Phillips have realised all too late the monster they’ve created (albeit in his case the drying up of career opportunities had more to do with his Damascan conversion).

      As to your own piece, sorry, but I don’t swallow the Kool-Aid that Scots are only racist because it’s all the fault of the institutionalised “Scottish cringe” to anything that’s not the “superior” British (read “English”) culture. That’s straight out of the Irish Republican and Mau Mau “nothing was or is ever our fault” narrative.

      When Scots are being racist, it’s because they are arseholes, full stop, and trying to exonerate it or even worse intellectualise it with academic whataboutery is insulting. “The Scottish Cultural Cringe, is the inevitable outcome of Appropriated Racial Oppression”? Geeza break!

      A fat slobbering knuckle dragger walloping some random non-white kid in Glasgow on a Saturday night hasn’t done so because he’s the victim of cultural psychological damage or any other sociological mental gymnastics one may come up with. He does so because a bully who has weighed up the chances of being a complete prick without any consequences to himself (ie. a good kicking from passers by, or the kid being a karate black belt). It’s a story that is played out across the globe, across cultures, races, nations on a daily basis – a certain little TV show the BBC was rather fond of shoving down everyone’s throats over the last few years (with zero hint of irony) was testament to the old adage that the bully bullies because they can.

    70. Geri says:

      Aye, Yellis. That can’t possibly happen, no Siree!

      & sectarianism is a myth too.

      Just so ya know.

    71. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ottomanboi 1.07 pm

      I agree it will have to be a home decision, just as other issues like EU membership, monarchy or republic, second chamber or unicameral legislature. Doubtless there will be other such decisions to be made, whether by parliament or referendum.

      I also agree that it’s not a sure thing that NATO membership will be the default position, though I do think it’s the most likely outcome. Perhaps some will be attracted by the Irish option, but given current circumstances and Sweden and Finland’s recent applications to NATO, the smart money has to be on an independent Scotland following them.

      You’re right that neutrality doesn’t necessarily denote being a political eunuch, but equally it can do so. Many (including some Finns) felt “Finlandisation” was a type of eunuch status for Finland when the policy was in operation. Being neutral and effectively armed is expensive tho’. Even the lightly armed Irish are thinking about increasing their relatively low level defence spending. They’re talking about a 50% increase on their current level of 1.1 billion Euros per annum, which is only 0.3% of GDP.

    72. Scott says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      5 July, 2022 at 1:34 pm

      @Scott 12.59 pm

      WMDs will likely have to be moved per Treaty on Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, unless Scotland already qualifies as the ‘nuclear power’.

      And you point is, caller…..?

      —-

      My point being that it won’t be a negotiating point as you claim, it’ll be a must unless Scotland already IS the nuclear state.

      Nice avoiding of the Vienna Convention on Succession of States in Respect of Treaties yet again – NATO membership is ours if we want it, just as EU membership would have been if we’d voted for independence in 2014.

    73. James Che. says:

      Ottomanboi.

      Indeed it takes great strength of character ,integrity and intelligence to stand up to arm twisting bullies , whom threaten a smaller country with violence.

      Scotland is being held hostage at this point, because of its geographical position for defence purposes for nato armed forces as much as for GB,

      It is amazing how often the topics we are asked to answer are what currency will you use, what about scotland deficit, what about the health and education etc.

      But most unionist fail miserably to mention what Or where they would re-site the nuclear weapons and training ground for mod and nato,

      The defence system itself that we are supposed to be proud of is just as likely to be turned on Scotland, the up talk of Scotland being russian stooges fore tells how the warped “look for a enemy target ” local british defence and media mindset are preparing the propaganda path.

    74. James Che. says:

      There is a immense difference between racism actually being in the communities of Scotland as a reality,
      And it coming from outside those communities.

      And there are those few trying to instigate racism into the Scottish communities. As ruth the mooth and NS, and that labour guy did against a childs nursery,

      Scotland has not had wars over religion or race for centuries amongst its people, but some are trying hard to lead Scots down that path.

    75. Andy Ellis says:

      @Scott 2.02 pm

      The process and timescale will have to be negotiated by the parties. They’re not just going to click their fingers the day after the Declaration of Independence is read out from the steps of Bute House and have the WMDs and everything associated with them disapparate and reappear in Devonport. I doubt many will cavil at a period of a few years to allow the britnats to get their ducks in a row and move to Devon, or the US Trident base in Georgia or come to a deal with their French friends.

    76. Breeks says:

      Geri says:
      5 July, 2022 at 1:02 pm

      I wonder if Yellis will be all dods of glad, come 24th October 2023, when (for example) we awake to find our ref trashed & ourselves with a gazillion ‘new’ BNP/UKippers? ?

      Why wait?

      With 50% of the vote, it already is trashed. A plebiscite election is not a referendum. It’s a Westminster first past the post system.

      “However despite the SNP in three separate UK General Elections receiving 50% in 2015, 36.9% in 2017, 45% in 2019. In Holyrood in 2016 it was a similar story SNP achieved 46.5%. In 2021 the SNP achieved 47.7% and if you factor in the other independence parties it was 50.09%. (From Barrheadboy).

      https://www.barrheadboy.com/democracy-uk-style/

      With this “strategy”, even revisiting the heady days of 56 out of 59 SNP MP’s returned to Westminster would have lost Independence.

      …And we laugh at Brexiteers for being led by Donkeys.

      Referendum, yes, you need 50%+ of the vote. It’s binary. You win because you have more votes than they do. You can get 50% of the vote if it’s between two people. If you’ve 100 people, 50 is stalemate, 51 of them give you victory. That’s how it works.

      Plebiscite UK General Election is different, – don’t mix your apples and oranges. You need a threshold 30 out of 59 MP’s to create pro Independence majority which can exercise the Claim of Right in Westminster by unassailable Scottish Parliamentary Majority.

      That’s the threshold for victory in the Westminster Parliamentary System, a majority of seats. 30 is the threshold, 56 “ought” to be emphatic victory, (you’d think). The only people who care about share of the vote are people like Peter Snow who need something to talk about in the wee small hours as the results dribble in. (Yes I know he’s retired).

      Please god we can still scrape together 30, in spite of Sturgeon’s toxic SNP, but hoping for 50% of the vote is LUNACY when you’ve three Unionist Parties in cahoots, accomplished at vote sharing and gerrymandering their candidates to back a single Unionist front runner, meanwhile Lance Corporal Sturgeon thinks it’s spiffing idea to airbrush half the YES Movement out of existence.

      FFS, leave her to play her stupid “solo-effort” carrot games with a Holyrood Referendum that’s never going to happen. Lock the fkg door when she’s inside. Don’t worry. She’ll have hours of fun looking for a corner to paint herself into.

      Leave a Plebiscite General Election to the grown ups and professionals, who at least know where the finishing line is.

    77. James Che. says:

      Interesting news,

      North Wales Live.

      Second homes in Wales will have to maybe register for at least 182 days in the year to before being able to claim business rates from the local councils.
      That has the possibility to sort out a shortage of houses in the future and perhaps bring house availability and prices down for locals,

    78. James Che. says:

      Andy Ellis,

      You would think after 2014, they would have prepared a back up plan already. Strategic planning ahead is their forte after all, is it not?

    79. Andy Ellis says:

      @Breeks 2.31 pm

      The only people who care about share of the vote are people like Peter Snow who need something to talk about in the wee small hours as the results dribble in. (Yes I know he’s retired).
      Please god we can still scrape together 30, in spite of Sturgeon’s toxic SNP, but hoping for 50% of the vote is LUNACY ..

      I’m afraid not Breeks. Not a single country will recognise a Scottish declaration based on a majority of seats in a Westminster GE that doesn’t also clearly have >50% of the vote.

      No ifs, no buts, it just won’t happen. The Micawber principle applies:

      “GE result 30 seats and 50% plus one votes, result happiness. GE result 30 seats and 49.99% of the vote, result misery.”

    80. Geri says:

      Breeks, I was being fecitous. ? ?
      Re Yellis fapping over his obsessions with nativism, candyfloss & such types.

      We already have UKippers & BNP types but the penny didn’t drop.
      We can’t miss them.
      They wear Blue rosette’s.
      & Red rosette’s.
      & Glorify the days of re-establishing once & for all centralised English rule over Scotland & Wales.

      Their purpose for being here isn’t to work for Scotland. It’s to work against it.

    81. Andy Ellis says:

      @James Che 2.42 pm

      Strategic planning ahead is their forte after all, is it not?

      I present for your consideration the Argentinian invasion of the Falklands, more defence procurement cock ups than you can shake a stick at over many decades, and the failure to standardise defence equipment and procurement with our allies also over many decades.

      Strategic thinkers we are not!

    82. Scott says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      5 July, 2022 at 2:25 pm

      @Scott 2.02 pm

      The process and timescale will have to be negotiated by the parties.

      Not if Scotland is regarded as the nuclear power, which it may well be, and gets to keep the ‘Yankee Doddle Bugs’.

      Vienna Convention on Succession of States in Respect of Treaties would allow the Non-Proliferation Treaty to be bypassed. The nukes could stay, leaving rUK without any….lolz.

      Scotland is already a party to all treaties between UK & others, so NATO membership is ours if we want it.

    83. Scott says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      5 July, 2022 at 3:06 pm

      I present for your consideration the Argentinian invasion of the Falklands, more defence procurement cock ups than you can shake a stick at over many decades

      Strange thing for someone who works for a defence contractor to say – I hope your bosses aren’t reading and have a word about PR etc.

    84. Muscleguy says:

      Several fantasy series make use of the idea of a Grey Man an undead assassin. So anonymous hard to notice until they’re on you. Rupert L’Gray was one such. He looked as though he left a trail of dust after him.

    85. Hatuey says:

      I heard that Welsh Labour politicians were almost encouraged to talk about Welsh independence by London HQ. I even heard they convene conferences to talk about it and the decision on whether Welsh Labour should support independence or not is a decision for Welsh Labour politicians…

      That naturally raises the question of why they’d have one approach in Wales and a very different approach up here in Scotland, which is something to contemplate the next time you’re waiting on your tank to fill at the petrol station.

      I observe that before you can deceive your fellow countrymen (or anyone), you must first deceive yourself into thinking it’s okay. We can discuss the extent to which Scotland as a whole is a colony, but there’s no disputing Scottish Labour has been colonised.

      It’s painful in a way to watch SLAB leaders, one after the other over decades, scupper their own chances of being relevant and successful up here owing to their party’s colonial status and role.

      We tend to focus on how pathetic and disgusting it is to see them doing their London masters’ bidding, and we often laugh at them, but their compromised position comes at a cost to us all.

      Can you imagine how healthy the debate would be up here if they were allowed to be honest about independence and discuss it like adults? It’s a stretch, but can you imagine how useful it would be if SLAB also supported independence?

      It’s only a stretch because they’re a bunch of sellouts.

    86. Breeks says:

      Geri says:
      5 July, 2022 at 3:04 pm

      Breeks, I was being fecitous. ? ?
      Re Yellis fapping over his obsessions with nativism, candyfloss & such types.

      I wasn’t implying anything Geri… Sorry if that’s how it read. I wasn’t on attack mode or accusing you Geri. I was addressing the wider belief that a 50% vote in a Plebiscite is a good idea.

    87. Merganser says:

      Breaking News

      The Lord Advocate thinks that the proposed Act is outside the Scottish Government’s powers. So that is why they can’t try to pass it without a court ruling. See th Scottish Government site.

    88. Merganser says:

      Why couldn’t Sturgeon have been upfront about this in her statement? Rather than let people discover it for themselves? Not a good look.

    89. Ruby says:

      Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
      2 July, 2022 at 11:16 am

      MARKER

      From this point in the thread, any more personal attacks will see the comments deleted and the attacker placed on the pre-moderation list. No exceptions.

      I asked him if he would be able to define what he means by personal attacks. His reply was

      It means personal attacks. Comments based on who someone is rather than what they said. So talking about “Ruby and her posse” would qualify, and so would “behaving like an absolute cunt”.

      With that in mind I believe I have been subjected further personal attacks.

      Andy Ellis says:
      3 July, 2022 at 2:57 pm

      and a special mention for Ruby who has managed admirably to do a few posts without using the c-bomb.

      Andy Ellis says:
      5 July, 2022 at 9:30 am

      Only if you resort to your usual MO Ruby. Rev Stu seems to have given Geri a free pass up thread, but I wouldn’t risk going back to your usual persona if I were you?

      Andy Ellis says:
      5 July, 2022 at 1:16 pm
      I see you and your mates can’t resist the atavistic need to abuse those who best you in debate. the Rev Stu may not be watching, but those without the sundry verbal tics and personality defects which inspire such abuse probably are.

      DING, DING! as Ruby is won’t to say.

    90. Scott says:

      @Merganser

      Re Lord Advocate

      If Dorothy Bain doesn’t quote Claim of Right Act 1689 at UKSC then she isn’t fit for office.

      Also, Scotland could legally run a referendum, without needing permission from UK Parliament, on whether to have an independence referendum.

    91. Ruby says:

      I wonder if he should urge Rev Stu to ditch the new personal attacks policy. People love it. Just look at how much fun we are having get stuck into Richard Leonard.

      PS I only ever got one person complaining about my personal attack.

    92. Ruby says:

      We need a section 30 and Nicola Sturgeon has to get us one. She promised!

      If she fails then it’s time for voters to take to the street & protest.

      Sturgeon OUT OUT OUT!

      We don’t need her to attention marches or anything else.

      She only has one job.

      Get us a section 30.

      How much is all this legal action costing?

      Where’s our £600K? Is it being spend on court action?

    93. Andy Ellis says:

      If Dorothy Bain doesn’t quote Claim of Right Act 1689 at UKSC then she isn’t fit for office.

      The term doesn’t appear in the Reference document filed by the Lord Advocate on 28/06/2022.

      It’s a toughie right enough: whose opinion should we trust, Dorothy Bain QC, or “Scott” off the internet?

    94. Merganser says:

      @Scott
      Can’t see any mention of Claim of Right in the documents presently filed.

    95. Ruby says:

      I’ll repost the following with without typo

      we not he

      Ruby says:
      5 July, 2022 at 4:18 pm

      I wonder if we should urge Rev Stu to ditch the new personal attacks policy. People love it. Just look at how much fun we are having get stuck into Richard Leonard.

      PS I only ever got one person complaining about my personal attack.

    96. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      5 July, 2022 at 4:33 pm

      It’s a toughie right enough: whose opinion should we trust, Dorothy Bain QC, or “Scott” off the internet?

      Ding! Ding! personal attack

    97. Breeks says:


      Merganser says:
      5 July, 2022 at 3:54 pm

      Why couldn’t Sturgeon have been upfront about this in her statement? Rather than let people discover it for themselves? Not a good look.

      Why did Sturgeon hang Martin Keatings out to dry, with a question which couldn’t be ruled upon because it was hypothetical, then seek adjudication on the same question, which is still hypothetical because she hasn’t put a Bill though Holyrood?

      She’s waltzed right into the trap they used to stymie Martin Keatings.

    98. ScotsRenewables says:

      Breeks says:
      5 July, 2022 at 4:38 pm

      Why did Sturgeon hang Martin Keatings out to dry, with a question which couldn’t be ruled upon because it was hypothetical, then seek adjudication on the same question, which is still hypothetical because she hasn’t put a Bill though Holyrood?

      THE Lord Advocate did not “have the necessary degree of confidence” that Holyrood could legislate for a second independence referendum to clear a bill for introduction to the Scottish Parliament.

      So it pretty much had to go straight to the supreme court.Anything else would have been more wasted time.

      https://archive.ph/iCB5G

    99. ScotsRenewables says:

      But . . . . .

      Bills are usually only referred to the Supreme Court AFTER the devolved legislature has passed them.

      The Lord Advocate (the Scottish Government’s chief law officer) has referred the draft Scottish Independence Referendum Bill to the UKSC as a “devolution issue”. She is asking the Court to decide whether the legislation, if introduced and enacted, would be within Holyrood’s competence.

      It remains to be seen whether a “devolution issue” reference can be used to refer draft legislation in this way, and there is no precedent for this alternative approach.

      If as some suspect this is a can-kicking exercise then the Lord advocate is an accomplice. Let us hope this is not the case.

    100. Geri says:

      There you go again Yellis..
      Talking pish.
      The Scottish Parliament can legally hold an advisory ref if it so wishes.
      It also has Smiths Pish re refs & intentions.

      Who to believe? Scotland Bill, Act, Smith Commission? It’s a toughie right enough. Best we all ignore Yellis pish everyone.

      Doesn’t he sound gleeful?

    101. Ruby says:

      Is ‘not having the necessary degree of confidence’

      some sort of legal speak.

      A way of conning more money out of the client?

      What good is a bloody lawyer who gets paid megabucks by the taxpayer who doesn’t know the law?

      Could it be she does know but she has to leave some space for Sturgeon to pretend to do something?

      I don’t know much about the Martin Keatings case but I suppose Nicola was furious because he stole her gig.

    102. Merganser says:

      I wouldn’t like to have been the floor under Sturgeon’s feet when Dorothy said ‘NO’, especially if she was wearing the killer heels.

      The reference to the court reads like a load of disingenuous twaddlle. A translation would read as follows:

      ‘I’ve told Nichola she can’t do this, but she won’t accept it and has made me appeal to you and I have to give you her views but I can’t tell why I have said no. So please get her off my back.’

    103. Republicofscotland says:

      ScotRenewables @4.44pm

      From the link.

      “Bain has asked the Supreme Court to answer the question: “Does the provision of the proposed Scottish Independence Referendum Bill that provides that the question to be asked in a referendum would be ‘Should Scotland be an independent country?’ relate to reserved matters?

      “In particular, does it relate to: (i) the Union of the Kingdoms of Scotland and England (Para. I (b) of Schedule S); and/or (ii) the Parliament of the United Kingdom (Para. I (c) of Schedule 5)?”

      The submission says “the Lord Advocate does not have the necessary degree of confidence” to have answered the question herself.”

      So our Lord Advocate is lacking in confidence when it comes legislating for a consultative indyref. She refers her legal doubts to the UKSC in the knowledge that they will knock it back, was that the plan all along?

      I suppose if she and Sturgeon wanted to drag it out a bit longer they could’ve referred it to a lower court, and we’d wait longer as it bumped its way up through the system. I think the result will be the same a big fat no from the UKSC.

      Then we move onto the next GE as a plebiscite, that too will be challenged, and if form is anything to go by Bain will again be lacking in confidence. The COPFS is only confident when its prosecuting indy supporters and bloggers, or when its covering up for Sturgeon by giving her legal advice on how to get out of dodgy situations.

    104. James Che. says:

      Scotlands official contribution to national defence is this year is £63 million, which Boris took from Scotlands budget .
      Paying above our weight per head.

      And £30 million from Wales budget.

    105. Ruby says:

      That sounds about right Merganser!

    106. Merganser says:

      The BBC (yes I know) says that the Lord Advocate will argue the government case. While her own judgement is that the Act is a non-starter. If she tries that on before the court she’s toast. Shambles doesn’t begin to describe it.

    107. Andy Ellis says:

      Then we move onto the next GE as a plebiscite, that too will be challenged, and if form is anything to go by Bain will again be lacking in confidence.

      How would the result of a plebiscitary election be challenged? Either a majority vote for pro-indy parties standing on a platform of victory = de facto independence, or they don’t.

      If 50% +1 vote for parties with that mandate, it’s then down to the Scottish people (and presumably those representing them) to just make it happen?

    108. Bob Mack says:

      Javid and Sunak both resign. Johnston on brink

    109. Chic Murrays's Chiropodist says:

      Rumour that both Sunak and Javid have resigned?
      This could be interesting….

    110. Merganser says:

      Supreme Court Judge to Lord Advocate: ‘Could you set out in detail the reasons why you wouldn’t authorise the bill; thank you. And now the reasons why it should be authorised. Thank you.
      And which do you have most confidence in? Thank you. You don’t really need a judgement do you?

      As was predicted by Stu. Campbell a while ago, there will be no referendum in October next year.

      Next carrot.

    111. robbo says:

      Well there ye go. Tories in absolute disarray and we’re still scrambling aboot for a referendum

      Sunak and Javed have resigned- who’d of thot it!

    112. Mark Boyle says:

      Bob Mack says:
      5 July, 2022 at 6:19 pm

      Javid and Sunak both resign. Johnston on brink

      At the risk of tempting fate, no way can Boris survive this.

      Clearly Sunak and Javid have struck a deal where Sunak gets to be PM and Javid gets his old Chancellorship back.

      The Tories turn Thatcherite once more, and Sir Keir Starmer thinks it’s Christmas – suddenly he’s electable again.

    113. James Che. says:

      When looking at the question that NS approached the supreme court with at first I thought she had thrown Scottish sovereignty under the bus to the supreme court.

      But on reviewing this we must remember in Scotland the devolved parliament is not sovereign in Scotland nor as it happens sovereign in England.

      The Claim of Right did not belong to the old Scots Parliament of three estates either according to themselves in 1707.
      The English parliament settled on this belonging to the Scots. And later the British parliament settled this on solely the Scots on a number of occasions.

      NS can only borrow, lend or temporarily represent the Claim of Right, through the Scots, it never is owned by a political sphere or belonged to anyone but Scots.

      So where do we go when the supreme court says No,
      Do we allow ourselves to choose and organise a new government or Assembly outwith the frame work of UK,
      Remembering the Scots are not officially entered into the treaty of the union, and that the GB / Uk Gov, would have NO prove of ever having asked them to join in 1707 at the official start date, that the Sovereignty Claim of Right for Scots is official and recorded.

      We would have to withdraw our support for the devolved government on a certain date. How many Scots [ Are needed ] to Use our “Claim of Right”

      It started with sovereign Scots, it will end with Sovereign Scots overtaken the slow politics of the devolved government, the UK government and the supreme court, whom cannot rule on Scots Sovereignty or the right to choose a path to self determination.

    114. robbo says:

      James Che. says:
      5 July, 2022 at 5:40 pm
      Scotlands official contribution to national defence is this year is £63 million, which Boris took from Scotlands budget .
      Paying above our weight per head.

      And £30 million from Wales budget.

      ——————

      James I think those figures are from something else from last week. Not the defense budget- sumit else.

    115. Republicofscotland says:

      Mark Boyle @6.29pm.

      Possibly Sunak has resigned from Johnson’s cabinet to avoid any fallout landing on him. It wasn’t that long ago the media were hinting that Sunak might put his name for as PM, though Sunak denied it.

      As for Javid, I recall reading that when he was chancellor a while back Johnson and his cronies called him CHINO, “chancellor In nane Only” a term meant to be derogatory.

    116. James Che. says:

      Those resigning down south are re- positioning themselves to run for prime minster, second in command etc.
      Indications boris is going,

    117. Republicofscotland says:

      “How would the result of a plebiscitary election be challenged?”

      I’m not privy to the legalities on whether the Scottish government could or could not use the next GE as plebiscite, and if our Lord Advocates confidence is anything to go by neither is she.

    118. Bob Mack says:

      @James Che.

      That is the key issue. The Supreme Court MUST be made to rule solely on the sovereignty of Scots. Not that they exercise it through elected politicians.?

      Should that be achieved it opens up a Pandoras box for Westminster

    119. Effigy says:

      I am so sorry to hear the Crazy Criminal Scot Hating Pathological Liar PM Boris appears as a dead man walking.

      As he is completely devoid of any ounce of integrity or morality he will not be resigning but will need kicked out perhaps with another joke knighthood, an estate in Scotland, a blanc cheque PPE order and shares in British Petroleum that his party sold of cheap stealing from the U.K. masses just like exiled Roman Abramovich.

      Would anyone with experience of steaming off wallpaper costing £230,000 please contact No 10 Downing St ASAP.

    120. North chiel says:

      Here we go , another Tory coup & con job underway . After Bojo the “ new Tory messiah” will be installed by the puppet masters . His or her ? brief will be to promise “ a new beginning” ( will it be the “smiling assassin “ Gove supposed Scot )? Who will be given the brief of engaging Nicola for the Battle of Britain and the “ precious precious Union “ ? Or will they go for Ben Wallace with the “famous Scottish surname “ . The brief will be to calm & placate “ middle England “ and to promise “ the Jocks “ the usual “ land of milk & honey” within the Union .
      Or how about a “ post coup” General election to out manoeuvre Nicola ? , or even to bail out altogether and hand the “ starwars” duo the poisoned chalice ?

    121. Derek says:

      Liz Truss.

      Imagine the laughter from Europe.

    122. Mark Boyle says:

      Derek says:
      5 July, 2022 at 7:02 pm

      Liz Truss.

      Imagine the laughter from Europe.

      “Congratulations on your new job, Prime Minister Truss. We have some good news and some bad news for you.”

      “What’s the good news?”

      “The good news is the BBC aren’t going to send Laura Kuenssberg to interview you during your time in office.”

      “Thank goodness! What’s the bad news?”

      “The bad news is they’re sending Lexie Hill …”

    123. Derek says:

      Kuenssberg must be spitting feathers – Chris Madon has just taken her old job of Political Editor. She took over Emily Maitlis’ job, I think.

    124. Derek says:

      *Mason

    125. Andy Ellis says:

      Just think, if we had a nationalist government worth its salt, now might be a good time for it to force a plebiscitary Holyrood election…. 🙂

    126. Geri says:

      Original plan B all along.

      Holyrood election with indy front & centre.
      Win said indy majority.
      Hold advisory indy ref.
      Implement the result through Holyrood indy parliament.
      Done. Dusted.

      Any challenges?

      See you in court!!
      Meet you there, bye!

      M’ld, it worked for Brexshit. We said we’d implement the result. This what the people voted for.
      Shall we ask the intervention of an Int court to look at this for us?

      *Sturgeons plan was never set to work. How can you legally challenge what hasn’t taken place yet. That’s why we need an absolute rottweiler as FM. Not the wishy washy pretender we’ve landed ourselves with.

    127. Andy Ellis says:

      Holyrood election with indy front & centre.
      Win said indy majority.
      Hold advisory indy ref.
      Implement the result through Holyrood indy parliament.
      Done. Dusted.

      Why would we need and advisory indyref after winning a majority in a plebiscitary election?

    128. footsoldier says:

      When Tony Blair created the UK Supreme Court, was this not in contravention of the Treaty or Act of Union because Scottish Law was to remain under Scottish jurisdiction.

      If that were to be the case, why has it not been challenged and why are we seeking their permission on a referendum?

      I simply do not know but perhaps some legal minds on here have a view?.

    129. Effigy says:

      A Truss is used to stop a hernia from falling any further!

      Liz is the most arrogant obnoxious person who ever breathed.
      She is perfect to take over from the Bungling Buffoon Boris.

    130. Tinto Chiel says:

      In the midst of yet more irrelevant Tory jostling for the PM position tonight in the Sack of Rats, the most important question is who was Richmal Leotard?

      IIRC, he had more personality and credibility than Deep State plant Keir Stumer, which is admittedly rather a low base.

      Seems to me if Bojo or his successor were discovered in a four-poster with a choirboy, a slightly bemused tethered goat and a tub of vaseline, he would still be voted in if he promised lower taxes and firing off “undesirables” to Rwanda.

      Multiple shooty-in opporchancities for a real Scottish FM to wipe the floor with our opposition but instead she’s busy chasing Woke rainbows and tying herself up with self-imposed constitutional difficulties.

    131. Bob Mack says:

      @Footsoldier.

      Simple answer is no.

      Section 19 Act of Union clearly states Westminster has jurisdiction over law changes required for better maintenance of the law.

    132. Breastplate says:

      If Bojo goes then we have to wish for the most ridiculous alternative.
      Liz Truss is quite ridiculous but what about Jacob Rees-Mogg?

      It would suit us if Bojo can hang on to the top job, though, it’s very difficult to best him in the ludicrous stakes.

    133. Al-Stuart says:

      .
      Ruby,

      Methinks you protesteth too much.

      I enjoy reading the more forensic and decent, thoughtful posts. It becomes muscle-memory to scroll pass the trolls and abusers.

      But the majority of foul mouthed rants with a disgusting profligacy of the c u n t word appear to be authored by your pen.

      Rev Stu., seems to have put down a MARKER in an effort to calm down the ad hominem abuse.

      It isn’t just you that has been abusing all and sundry, AND YOU HAVE. Many BTL comments have been off-topic and abusive.

      But as a quiet lurker reader who does not post much can find it really difficult to scroll past troll type behaviour from some Amadans with a restricted vocabulary and who seem to think it is OK to use the c u n t word as if it has no consequences.

      You are doing a Putin or Trump here Ruby. Blaming others for your own infractions.

      I expect nothing but abuse from you in reply. That, ironically will prove my point that you are an habitual abuser and one that is in denial.

      PLEASE stop your efforts at blame-shifting and waffling off topic as if you fitted into that old phrase…

      HELL HATH NO FURY LIKE A PRONOUN SCORNED.

      In other words, please wind yer neck in, grow up, stop bickering and for the love of sanity, keep ON TOPIC and be respectful.

      P.S. Andy, thanks for reproducing that letter about the odious Nandy MP.

      Finally, in an effort to be ON-TOPIC, has anyone seen the answer on Twitter from Massie to this Wings article from the pronoun himself?

    134. Doug says:

      A snap general election? Before the so-called supreme makes a decision? And that decision may take much longer than we think if the so-called supreme court delays its decision by asking for Holyrood to pass a bill first. Does the FM turn round and say the so-called supreme court is now irrelevant and the GE will be a de facto referendum?

      She has frequently expressed her desire to obediently follow Westminster law. Is Scotland being suckered once again?

    135. Doug says:

      England’s problems are Scotland’s opportunities. They’d better be.

    136. Geri says:

      Footsoldier…
      As far as I’m aware & could be corrected as I’m no legal eagle –
      The UK became a *new state* under the takity boots of protestant England.
      Protestant England had it written in to the Acts, forever & ever (even after all Catholics are deid, buried, exhumed & burnt again just to make sure) that they reign supreme in all matters relating to the new state of the UK.

      This is where the stench of entitlement & supremacy reigns supreme in all matters of the new state they created & let no Jock, now or forever more, cast asunder.

      Scotland can keep its laws & it’s claim of rights – those apply to Scotland but those don’t apply to the *new state* they created & it’s rule of law.

    137. Derek says:

      Tinto Chiel says:
      5 July, 2022 at 9:02 pm

      In the midst of yet more irrelevant Tory jostling for the PM position tonight in the Sack of Rats, the most important question is who was Richmal Leotard?

      He was in charge of the Scottish Ladder Chanty for a bit, wasn’t he?

    138. Geri says:

      Anyone would think that nonsense is outdated but they’d be wrong.
      Why the Masons & Orange order is still a thing. WM has its own orange ludge.
      Why Her Maj is defender of the faith.
      Why we had staunch unionists trash places like George/freedom Square for what it represented during indyref.

      A challenge to their supremacy.

      *Said in Monty Python voice* Because it’s witten! That’s why.

      Blair couldn’t be arsed with those complexities so he created a body that would & the Supreme Court was appointed.

    139. robbo says:

      Nicola Sturgeon declares ‘the whole rotten lot need to go’ as Tories quit Downing Street.

      LMFAO. She’s a card ain’t she.

    140. Shug says:

      Well I suppose signing a section 30 might divert attention for a while but even if he did would it be worth the paper it was written on.

      Just as well the Nats are fixated with everything being legal eh!

    141. Geri says:

      Doug 10:42pm

      I can just hear the cabinet room now ‘Go on BoJo, take one for the team & save the Union’

    142. Saffron Robe says:

      If the SNP have not acted on any of the mandates they have accumulated up until now what evidence is there that they will act on any future mandates? Are they suddenly going to spring into action if they reach their magical threshold in a plebiscitary election? Anyone who thinks they will is drinking the same Kool-Aid that they have been drinking for the past eight years. There is a recurring pattern here and anyone who cannot see it by now I guess never will. The SNP could have turned the independence switch on at almost any point in the past eight years but have steadfastly refused to do so. Why? Because they are fakirs – they have no intention/capability of gaining independence, they only want to make it APPEAR so. As Sarah succinctly put it, they have neither the brains nor the guts.

      ScotsRenewables says:

      “If as some suspect this is a can-kicking exercise then the Lord Advocate is an accomplice. Let us hope this is not the case.”

      Unfortunately, ScotsRenewables, I think it is very much the case. They’re all in it th’gither to hoodwink the Scottish public.

      I don’t normally watch television but I had the misfortune to catch Kirsten Oswald on a BBC politics show. She was quite adamant in stressing that the SNP had the “constitutional right” to pass the GRA. Apart from the horrendous implications of the GRA, it made me angry that they are so forceful about transgender rights but have never once stood up for our constitutional rights as Scots.

      As an aside, I’ve been reading some of Thomas Ligotti’s short stories. He has an amazing vocabulary which is always the sign of a good writer in my book! I thought the following passage from “The Sect of the Idiot” sums up very well, albeit in a different context, the relationship between the masses and their governments, particularly in the West:

      “And what was imparted to my witnessing mind was the vision of a world in a trance – a hypnotised parade of beings sleepwalking to the odious manipulations of their whispering masters, those hooded freaks who were themselves among the hypnotised. For there was a power superseding theirs, a power which they served and from which they merely emanated, something which was beyond the universal hypnosis by virtue of its very mindlessness, its awesome idiocy. These cloaked masters, in turn, partook in some measure of godhood, passively presiding as enlightened zombies over the multitudes of the entranced, that frenetic domain of the human.”

    143. twathater says:

      @ Saffron Robe 1.30am I too had the misfortune to watch the same politics show and the comments of kirsten ( the same top and scarf to hide the bulk) oswald , as you say the righteous indignation that suella braverman dared challenge the SG’s GRA policy but NO CHALLENGE or highlighting of Scots sovereignty or Claim Of Right, Coburn fair highlighted the hypocrisy of the snp when it came to the GROPERS and the dealing with grady
      Non Scots stv also had a news article and interview with bunter blacktit challenging him on whether grady will return to the snp , as usual it was all bluster and pish never answering the question

    144. Geri says:

      Shug re legal.

      I know. We’re reduced to armchair expert international lawyers.

      *Sigh*
      If only some within the SNP had went to law school the day they taught law..
      ..Oh wait.

      They could’ve came out & put a lot of what they can do & what they can’t do to bed but instead chose Sturgeons best method – keep everything hidden, top secret & stop talking about it & the minions will eventually all just go away through boredom or (yous couldn’t agree the colour of shyte!) infighting.
      And Scots are renowned for both – *We’re a better class of indy supporters than those indy supporters over there – fkn splitters!* & We’ve suffered Labour for decades who is still trying to punt tales from the crypt that bored us all to death decades ago 😀

    145. Breeks says:

      I’m curious… It would seem a racing certainty that the Supreme Court will apply English concept of Parliamentary sovereignty and reject the sovereignty of the Scottish people. So in detail, where does that actually leave Scotland’s less than confident Lord Advocate? Has she just committed a shameless abdication of sovereignty, or given a hospital pass to the Supreme Court?

      At least when Joanna Cherry was contesting Johnson’s prorogation of Westminster, the Supreme Court could only endorse the ruling of the Court of Session, because it acknowledged it had no jurisdiction to overturn it. Victory for Scotland’s constitution, yes, and a modicum of integrity for the Supreme Court? Or was it resignation?

      In theory, they should do the same again, because the popular sovereignty of the Scottish people has not changed. But of course maybe the Supreme Court’s briefing has…

      But taking a step back, isn’t it academic asking whether Holyrood has competency to hold a referendum when the people voting in that referendum would be sovereign citizens? The whole theatrical production is just a pig in a poke.

      Cut to the chase.

      Is Holyrood superfluous to Scottish Constitutional democracy?

      Yes/No?

      And funnily enough, whether the answer is a yes or a no, the next stage of proceedings is the Claim of Right, and if the Claim of Right is shunned, then we’re surely at the SALVO prenuptial agreement which predicates the Treaty of Union by insisting the Claim of Right is acknowledged respected.

    146. Geri says:

      Holyrood is toothless for Scottish democracy.

      A Westminster puppet
      Tied to the Scotland Act
      Stuffed full of Westminster appointed civil servants
      Has to take an oath to a foreign monarch
      Has to stick to whats been devolved (& that can change so stay awake)

      Only way out for us, imo – is to Reconvene the real Scottish parliament & remove ourselves completely from the House of vipers too – giving both Holyrood & HoCs no legitimacy here at all.

      How we go about that when a foreign country holds our purse strings? – I have no idea! They’ve form on how they treat disobedience.

    147. Muscleguy says:

      You cannot challenge a plebiscite election. Parties sign up to support a single issue. Vote for them if you support it. Cannot be blocked. What happens next if we win is the interesting thing. WM can indeed just ignore it. BUT if we are Recognised by other states, especially those surrounding the UK then ignoring it becomes difficult to impossible for WM.

      States annoyed by their inaction could for eg ban flights to/from rUK airports but not Scottish airports. All sorts of realpolitik pressures can be applied. The S30 request and the supreme court thing are to establish that there is no legal route to a referendum to justify the plebiscite instead.

      Watch, the new PM will get a S30 request, just to keep that box firmly ticked.



    Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.




    ↑ Top