stooges of the Kremlin

Wings Over Scotland


The paper it’s written on

Posted on September 09, 2017 by

(Buy Chris Cairns’ second great book of cartoons here. Plus cuddly Hamish!)

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    1. 09 09 17 08:56

      The paper it’s written on | speymouth

    256 to “The paper it’s written on”

    1. Valerie says:

      Aye, Chris, there’s another merchandising opportunity.

      Hurry up, Hamish, and come to me for a cuddle.

    2. RenateJ says:

      A fine example fo toilet humour!

    3. Ken500 says:

      Deja Vue

      Once again the Tories are campaigning to ruin the Scottish economy. 30 years in the wilderness. Caught up in their own deceitful, ignorance and lies. Will they vote to try and bring down the economy at Westminster?

      Just vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence. Do not vote for any other Party.

      One question on the IndyRef ballot paper. Roll on.

      No period policies. Or lose votes. Put off voters. To many important issues. Makes a mockery.

    4. RenateJ says:

      John Bull won’t be filling his waistcoat so well once he can no longer gorge himself on French cheese and wine, salami, Prosseco… Just turnips and jam

    5. Baldeagle58 says:

      Yep, that’s about what the promises made to Scotland during Indy Ref 1 were worth.
      The Unionists knew they were lies even as the words were coming out of their mouths.
      Time to Wake Up Scotland. We won’t fall for them next time!

    6. Ken500 says:

      The ‘National’ has been great.

    7. galamcennalath says:

      Excellent!

      Promises made to the Scots to win IndyRef, WM had no intentions of keeping.

      Promises made to the English to win EURef, WM going to silly lengths to try to keep!

      A tale of two quite different countries.

    8. Undeadshuan says:

      You know the torys are desperate when they would rather have blair than may.

      And advocate getting ruth davidson to become an mp now, so she can lead the torys in 4 years time.

      http://archive.is/gfDir

    9. wull2 says:

      I did not use it the 1st time, now more people can see how thin it is, it is useless, most Scottish people could see right through it.

    10. Oh, Chris, that is brill.

    11. Malky says:

      Dear ol’ John Bull. The gift that just doesn’t know when to start giving.

    12. Joemcg says:

      John Bull. Apt name. That’s all we have been hearing for 300 years.

    13. colin alexander says:

      Excellent cartoon. Says it all about how an indyref campaign can be torpedoed by false promises.

      From today’s Herald regarding 20 years of devolution:

      Donald Findlay QC ( one of the people who opposed devolution said:

      “Our [Scottish] Parliament is not sovereign, because it is restricted in what it can do,” he argued.

      “But the notion of a parliament creates in the people the idea, ‘Well, if we have a parliament, why don’t we just have a parliament that deals with everything?’ And a parliament that deals with everything is the equivalent to seeking independence,” he added.

      Why don’t we have a parliament that is sovereign, that has the power to decide for itself what it wants to rule over?

      The Great Scottish Parliament power return.

    14. Richardinho says:

      Is this showing where the promises come from or where they are going?

    15. davidbsb says:

      @undeadshuan

      I had a conversation with a Tory of my acquaintance recently – he is in Coventry. The Mooth came up. For some reason she is rated down there. I very much suspect they believe the Daily Fail/ Express bollocks they are being fed. I laughed and told him the candid side of what is really going on here. He was unaware of the poor quality of their candidates or of the “Orangeism”, or even the contempt ( and boycotting of ) for what the Truth Ministry feeds us.

      If she is going to make a move she had better be quick. You cannot pull the wool over peoples eyes for ever.

    16. Street Andrew says:

      As John Bull cosies up to the US he will discover that in the field of political disingenuity he has a lot to learn from the masters.

      Keep em coming Chris. Wish I could afford your books, but John Bull has all my money.

    17. GrahamB says:

      But they did keep some promises though – Lord Darling of Somewhere, Baroness Mobarik of Somewhere Else, but poor Blair MacDougal must be wondering what he did wrong not to get his vermin robes.

    18. One_Scot says:

      When seen like that, it actually makes you wonder what crap they’ll try and make us swallow next time.

    19. The Isolator says:

      Ha ha Top Toon Chris, love it.

      Hope the Rev is one unhappy Dandy at 5 o clock today (insert maroon smiley here).

    20. starlaw says:

      Cartoon says it all, could use posters of this one for Indy 2. Get the boot in, stop the vows before they start.

      Cartoons on walls say much more than Speech’s

    21. call me dave says:

      All a tissue of lies.

      They have lots more in stock folks. 🙂

    22. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Bull – shits..

    23. Calum McKay says:

      You can add democracy to the list, the tories are hell bent on destroying and undermining democracy.

    24. Capella says:

      Not a pretty image – but apt.

      Remember Gordon Brown promising to end offshore financial tax havens?

      Just listened to a R Scot interview about Scottish companies being used as shell companies to launder corrupt Azerbaijani money in the UK. Just as it came to the bit about how financial regulation was a reserved matter so Scottish Gov couldn’t stop it and Companies House …

      Gordon Brewer cut him off with “sorry we’ve run out of time” followed by that inane time-filler jingle they use to cut into every discussion. Followed by the umpteenth round of sport, travel and weather – as if they are likely to change within the half hour.

      Hey Gordon – big boy radio doesn’t have jingles. The Today programme doesn’t have jingles. That’s for children’s radio and adverts.

    25. colin alexander says:

      Comment on Kevin McKenna’s Herald article:

      Big Brother is watching you ( especially if you aren’t middle or upper class), in the Scot Govt’s Named Person Scheme.

      Now it will be criminalising decent parents who discipline their children to keep them safe and well adjusted, with an occasional skelped bum as a last resort for really naughty / dangerous behaviour ( you can be sure it will be poor households that will be targetted).

      Criminalising benefit claimants with a much lower threshold of “guilt” in the draft social security legislation. Outdoing the Tories in criminalising the poorest in society (same again).

      Keeping financial advantages for private fee paying schools ( opposite treatment for the wealthier).

      Grants for those on incomes up to 57,000 a year, who can afford to buy a home. (same again).

      If Mr McKenna thinks this is a shift in policy to promote social justice and tackle inequality that will impress people in housing schemes across Scotland, who formerly voted Labour and like what Mr Corbyn has to say about Social justice, then I think he’s wrong.

      Like everything the SNP does, much of it is wishy washy and mediocre.

      Where it does go beyond mundane it seeks to criminalise the weak and vulnerable in society. Just what you would expect from a political class that has lost touch with the values and aspirations of the people who put them into power.

      An SNP that has become the Scottish Raj. Administrators of WM Govt in Scotland.

      Did their policies mention Scottish sovereignty or Scottish independence? No. Well, that’s to be expected that by now. It is the SNP we are talking about here. They don’t talk about independence anymore.

    26. Famous15 says:

      BULLSEYE !

      (A shipyard thinggy as in ‘can you look an eye ? ‘)

      I’ll get ma coat

      But before I go to get my National have read of the article by Mhairi Black llinked on twitter.

    27. Jim Morris says:

      Could also have a box of mansize paper napkins tomwipe off the mouth after talking so much bull… Sadly, I heard yesterday an educated person quoting Lord George Robertson who “must be right because he was in charge of Nato.

    28. heedtracker says:

      Loyal Britnats also dye their poo, red, white, blue.

    29. heedtracker says:

      “Lead the UK” is also triple ply, absorbs the most sticky shite off John Bull’s airse, or is that actually Blair MacThunderbutt?

    30. David Agnew says:

      How apt. The UK wiping its arse with the No vote. No more need be said.

    31. heedtracker says:

      http://archive.is/UlJ3S

      If you do run out of UKOK arse wipes, just use The Guardian. Today Graun tories say ofcourse Queensferry Bridge isnt Scotland, it belongs to the world. Graun tories not really thinking big enough though, Queensferry Bridge really belongs to the universe. Don’t we all know enough miserable auld red and blue tory Scottish gits.

    32. Robert Peffers says:

      @RenateJ says: 9 September, 2017 at 8:48 am:

      “John Bull won’t be filling his waistcoat so well once he can no longer gorge himself on French cheese and wine, salami, Prosseco… Just turnips and jam.”.

      Now I’m perhaps just a cynical old bugger but my impression of John Bull is that he is yer actual, archetypical English/British Tory. I first got the message of how that type think way back in the late 1960s/early 70s when I regularly had to stop overnight in London while attending regular courses for my work with the MOD.

      I used to exchange my MOD provided air travel tickets for an Edinburgh to London ticket for a Monday morning flight to one for a Friday night flight.

      The airline was delighted to do this as their aircraft were packed with Scottish business people going in the opposite direction at those particular times while the ones going in the other direction were flying with empty seats.

      This enabled me to pay for my wife to travel with me and we could spend the weekend in London before I had to attend the course on the Monday morning.

      What I soon discovered was the rich Tory Londoner’s attitudes towards anyone not in their well off privileged group.

      They didn’t care about paying a fine to park in places in London that the rest of us couldn’t afford to pay. The cost of a parking ticket got outside their chosen places was a tiny item on their, (probably), business expense account.

      In the central London areas there were places where just hanging your coat up cost you an arm and a leg but the John Bull Tories were happy to pay this as it kept the hoi polio out of their favourite haunts.

      Haunts where a humble cup of tea was outwith the average person’s budget but to John Bull Toryboy it was a mere bagatelle. Yet just round the corner, within a hundred yards, there would be an eating place with very, very cheap snacks and cups of tea. Much cheaper than in, for example Edinburgh or Glasgow.

      They used their wealth to keep the common people out of their privileged world. These people treat their pet animals better than they treat their servants.

      The reason is that while the most poor and vulnerable in this Tory United Kingdom are being sanctioned, starved and deprived of care and help. While the average wages of the lower orders are being eroded by not being increased in line with the cost of living and in actual terms decreasing in value due to inflation and, “Quantitative Easing”, the upper strata of the United Kingdom have more than doubled their personal wealth.

      i.e. while the poor get poorer the rich get richer and that means Tory policy is designed to take cash from the pockets & purses of the poor and deposit it in the bank accounts of the rich.

      John Bull is not suffering in any way for John Bull’s income is better than keeping up with the fall in the value of the pound and John Bull is doing this by simply taking from the poor. He doesn’t care if the NHS goes bust for he has private health care. He doesn’t care if the price of food goes up – for he is the one getting the extra money it costs the poor to buy food. Likewise fuel and accommodation.

    33. Andy-B says:

      Another excellent caption Chris.

      Here Boris Johnson, is desperate to accelerate trade negotiations, even though David Davis, admits that the EU divorce bill must be settled first.

      Mr Johnson wants trade talks to begin next month, however there isn’t even a consensus on what amount the divorce bill should be.

      The Foreign Secretary claims, confidently that the EU negotiations WILL be complete by March 2019. However both David Davis and Sir Keir Starmer, during the House of Commons meeting on the renamed EU Withdrawal bill, appeared to concede that the final exit date may need to be pushed back, possibly on several occasions.

      http://archive.is/lhErC

    34. Breeks says:

      Graf Midgehunter says:
      9 September, 2017 at 9:56 am
      “Bull – shits..”

      Ha ha ha.

      Come on Chris. When does the billboard campaign begin?

    35. heedtracker says:

      Mr Johnson wants trade talks to begin next month, however there isn’t even a consensus on what amount the divorce bill should be.

      Having stamped out Scottish indy, 2014, our imperial masters are very very hard at work now, on their Great Reform Bill, which will be the indy killer blow.

      Tory dingdongs like Bojo the Clown, are clearly working entirely on their Great Reform Bill, while EU brexit stuff is clearly a tory do fuck all fudge, or just more work for their BBC prooagandists, poor wee souls. 18 months from now, teamGB simply pays its EU bill and no EU treaty stuff applies to the UK.

      Tory ground zero. Be afraid.

      Tory beeb gimp propaganda, note how it makes no mention whatsoever as to what losing our EU citizenship means to actual real people, who work to pay for their garbage, and ofcourse, the usual no beeb gimp mention of its S_____d region and Brexit.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32810887

    36. Robert Graham says:

      Great cartoon. Chris this covers the essence of the Vow , in the end covered in shit .

      On a lighter note The Daily mails front page highlighted on the BBC website, Scandal Scots get more lottery money than the poor downtrodden English, then goes on to quote two English Tory MPs demanding an inquiry and instant changes, one of them uses the usual, they ( meaning us ) get more per head from the Union , and are doing really well, I am surprised they don’t add the usual free Precriptions , free this free that pish.

      A the poor English they really need their own Parliament to look after their needs, Oops they do where they outnumber us Jocks ten to one, they get what they want, when they want it and how it’s delivered, let’s hear the screams of derision if the tables were turned, I bet the mails Scottish edition doesn’t carry that little gem . What’s your opinion Ruthie ? . Oh no comment as usual .

    37. Dan Huil says:

      Great cartoon, again, from Chris.

      Britnats haemorrhoiding support?

    38. Robert Peffers says:

      @colin alexander says: 9 September, 2017 at 9:17 am

      “From today’s Herald regarding 20 years of devolution:
      Donald Findlay QC ( one of the people who opposed devolution said”

      Hilarious, Colin is now quoting as an authority a Queen’s Councillor, who was caught on camera and then done for singing sectarian songs. Ye cudna mak it up – but Colin can.

    39. Dan Huil says:

      National has story of Madrid security services searching printers in Catalonia for referendum ballot papers. Will they be smashing the Catalonians’ printing presses next?

    40. Grouse Beater says:

      That’s two weeks in a row, Chris, we’ve tackled the same theme. This week I’m mainly doing barely suppressed fury. Thanks again for your cartoon. I also mention toilets and defecation. A week’s free supply of toilet rolls is yours.

      Your unmissable weekend reading

      A nation of racists: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-jWt
      A racing nation: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-jW6

    41. Proud Cybernat says:

      Cracker Chris.

      But there would never be enough paper for the amount of Bull-flop they pour over us.

    42. David says:

      @ Call Me Dave, yes, Westminster gave us a tissue of lies in 2014.
      Luckily for us, just like real tissues, all those lies were for ‘one-time-only’ use – they won’t be able to re-use them in the run-up to IndyRef2…

      …oh they can try, but it would get very messy…

      🙂

    43. galamcennalath says:

      Dare I mention …. hedgehog?

    44. Jack Murphy says:

      TODAY. The Ruth Davidson John Bull Tories move into another parallel universe.

      [Tory Baron Harris of Peckham] “He said the Scottish Conservative leader should run for a seat in Westminster and would make a “great Prime Minister.”…………” !

      Philip Charles Harris, Baron Harris of Peckham (born 15 September 1942) is an English businessman, Conservative party donor and member of the House of Lords.

      He lives in London,and Cannes on the French Riviera.

      STV News:
      http://archive.is/emHiy

    45. heedtracker says:

      What a difference a UKOK decade doesn’t make. Hundreds of billions of not Scots oil and gas revenue pumped into England but

      http://archive.is/KPGrG

      “The truth of Scotland’s economy”, wrote Jenkins on Wednesday, “is that, like most of Salmond’s voters, it depends on London money and must be weaned off it.” No, Simon – the truth is that this both ignorant and patronising.

      http://www.sueddeutsche.de/auto/deutsche-bahn-die-neue-ice-strecke-ist-wie-eine-u-bahn-durch-den-thueringer-wald-1.3652420

      You can see why planet toryboy salivates over ultra quick train travel. They must go to countries like Germany for their hols. But as usual, their Scotland region can go fuck itself.

    46. Robert Peffers says:

      @David says: 9 September, 2017 at 11:59 am:

      ” … Westminster gave us a tissue of lies in 2014.
      Luckily for us, just like real tissues, all those lies were for ‘one-time-only’ use – they won’t be able to re-use them in the run-up to IndyRef2…
      …oh they can try, but it would get very messy.”

      Thing is, David, that much of the Toilet Tissue used these days is indeed remanufactured and recycled waste paper.

      An entirely different connotation of the term, “Waste”, paper.

    47. Tackety Beets says:

      So much for “Slacker” that’s 2 beauts in a row.

      The Isolator @ 9.48

      A REED Smiley right back at yea !

      Baaaa

    48. galamcennalath says:

      David says

      lies in 2014 .. they won’t be able to re-use them in the run-up to IndyRef2

      Definitely. Most ammunition spent.

      They know IndyRef2, which will be accompanied by a dire Brexit, will be hard for them to win.

      Already we can see a different approach. Clearly the plan is to prevent an IndyRef2 happening by whatever means. We’ve just had two elections where ‘No referendum’ was the sole Unionist policy when it was an issue relevant to neither vote. Now that is desperation!

      Their media are in full campaign mode permanently now. Only report the bad Scottish news, downplay the good news. Most of the time simply ignore Scotland, its parliament and all its elected representatives. They have taken this to the extreme where they now often ignore even Unionist politicians! Scotland must not be seen to exist.

      Their gameplay is to delay until the next Holyrood election and get seats filled with Uncle Tams. They hope the SNPBaaad campaign, combined by a more credible Labour and über British Tories, will cut back the pro Indy vote enough to deny a majority.

      If the succeed here, then they have probably won for a generation … a real generation of decades!

      So, we mustn’t let them win!

    49. Croompenstein says:

      Brilliant Chris.. you deserve a holiday after that one.. 🙂

    50. Valerie says:

      @ Dan Huil

      Twitter had a vid of police piling out of a van, donning vests, as they went into a building.

      I wasn’t sure whether to believe it, but I’m sure The National has verified.

      I find that highly worrying.

    51. Dan Huil says:

      @Valerie 12:36pm

      I hope the SG is keeping an eye on Catalonia’s predicament. There could be much to learn.

      And Catalonia has no oil, unlike…

      https://thoughtcontrolscotland.com/2017/09/08/an-additional-900-million-barrels-in-the-north-sea-by-raising-recovery-factor-from-only-42/#comments

    52. JLT says:

      A very good example of the lies that we were told over the last half decade, and how those lies have unravelled.

      I believe that the UK Government is slowly now beginning to resign itself to a ‘Hard Brexit’. Any hope that the EU would somehow, fold and offer forms of appeasement, are all but nil now. There will be no softening of the EU stance. Simply, the UK voted to leave, and as far as the EU is concerned, the demand seems to be ‘…then please leave, and do so quickly!’ This seems to be the EU attitude.

      There is no doubt about it. May is bricking it. Chaos, indecisions, opportunism and bitter rivalries plague her party as never before. As for David Davis, he is becoming the UK’s own version of the once mocked Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf AKA ‘Comical Ali’, the once-former Iraqi Information Minister who made wildly inaccurate statements about how great and influential the Iraqi Regime was under Saddam Hussein during the 2nd Gulf War. Davis has come to resemble Ali in so many ways. ‘All of them (Western European Nations) know that the impact of no deal would be quite dramatic, more dramatic than for us’. Simply put – what a load of nonsense. Germany who has the biggest trade with the UK out of the EU would lose something in the region of €30+ Billion Euros. Britain overall, would lose in the region of £100 Billion Pounds Sterling. When your biggest rival is only losing a third to your overall losses, I don’t see the rest of them (the Dutch, Belgians, French) losing much sleep. Annoying to a degree yes, but not catastrophic. For the UK, it is oblivion. So Davis is talking like Ali – delusional, grandiose drivel, and pretending that we are this major power that can still bully and intimidate other nations. The EU on day 1 after a Hard Brexit will swot the UK to one side in absolute disdain when it comes to trade and talks. The day a Hard Brexit happens, I expect Davis to vanish into the same place as Lord Lucan and Shergar are hiding as the realisation hits home that the UK is truly stuffed.

      When that day arrives when the UK hits its own D-Day with the EU, and is told to walk away forever if not agreeing to the EU demands, then that is the day I expect the SNP along with the Greens (and probably Scottish Labour to a degree) to explode in absolute fury; a fury that we have never seen. At the moment, Nicola is keeping schtoom …and quite rightly so! Let the Tories dig their own graves (and that of the UK State). Should Theresa gulp and decide to walkaway from the EU, then I expect Ruth Davidson will either swallow her pride and acknowledge that Scotland has to now look at all options, or she’ll run to the hills (along with Davis) to hide.

      And when that days comes, then that list that is in Chris’s drawing will be held up an example of how the British State has failed Scotland since late 2014, and should the argument be handled correctly, then I expect Scotland to demand an immediate Referendum to decide our future, and this time, it should not be a ‘No’ vote.

      We just quietly sit, watch …and wait.

    53. Andy-B says:

      Here a major donor to the Conservative party, puts the boot into the Prime Minister Theresa May’s somewhat lacklustre tenure. It does look increasingly likely that the British Prime Minister’s chances of remaining in office, after Brexit, are quickly evaporating.

      Lord Harris of Peckham, added that we would be better off with a Tony Blair administration.

      http://archive.is/NkrRX

    54. Robert Graham says:

      a bit o/t – further to the Lotto bit headlined in the Mail ,
      The comment section on this story should be interesting reading for all those proud union worshiping scots ,
      Just feel the love emanating from the Mail readers , is this really what they want to be better together with ,
      They seem to be pretty fair in their hatred , these people seem to hate everyone especially those foreigners who at the stroke of midnight the day england exits the EU will be forcibly removed by this caring sharing tory fascist regime .

      Aye Better together my arse , Suckers .

    55. heedtracker says:

      Great essay GB

      “Let the Scots in. Keep the Scots out. Stay with us and lead us. Stay out of English affairs.”

      Its not just Scots excluded from English affairs though.

      http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/theresa-may-rigging-parliament-committee-of-selection-standing-committees_uk_59b1a514e4b0dfaafcf68a04

      In what Labour called “an unprecedented power grab” ahead of Brexit and beyond, the Government is trying to give itself the power to dominate every bill committee from now until 2022.

      And this neo fascist planet toryboy have same Great Reform Bill plans for Holyrood. Unless we vote YES indyref2, its all over for Scotland’s much stamp on democracy, by BBC Scotland gimps especially, for another gen.

      This week, assorted tory reprobates have doing the beeb gimp network rounds, “Great Reform Bill is not a power grab,” says toryboy so and so.

      And that simply means, it really is.

    56. Capella says:

      Heydrich update: success at last. I’ve found some of the direct quotes in Doc 20, Lesson from History ed. Vaclav Kral 1961. Only arrived this morning so will post another update soon.

      In the section The depolitisation of the population:
      “… in order to convince the Czechs also from the point of view of their origin that they must be considered merely as a tribe and not a nation… so as to dilute the Czech national pride…”

      So that’s two ticked off he and his colleagues really did say this.

      Another interesting comment on the Czech Government:
      ” As the Czech Government is paralysed and weak at the moment, it is we who must remain active so as not to let it in any way become an intact and active government under any circumstances. We would not be interested in this, we would, hiowever, be interested in a well functoning Czech administration. But there must always be the opportunity to intervene… “

      These are minutes of a meeting held to discuss the germanisation of the Bohemian/Moravian Protectorate held on October 17th 1941 16.00 hrs.

    57. colin alexander says:

      @Robert Peffers

      Colin quoted Donald Findlay: “Our [Scottish] Parliament is not sovereign, because it is restricted in what it can do,” he argued.

      “But the notion of a parliament creates in the people the idea, ‘Well, if we have a parliament, why don’t we just have a parliament that deals with everything?’ And a parliament that deals with everything is the equivalent to seeking independence,”

      You, Robert give an ad hominem attack on Donald Findlay. The issue is not Donald Findlay but his legal / political assessment of devolution.

      If you won’t listen to anything Mr Findlay says because he sang The Sash, are you going to say the same about the Sewel Convention ruling by the Supreme Court?

      Scotland voted Remain and it counts for nothing.

      The Supreme Court (SC) on Article 50 (Brexit vote): the SC mentions Sewel 18 times in their ruling.

      What does it say about Sewel? The quick answer is – See the cartoon above. It’s best use is as bog roll, like all the other worthless rubbish from the UK Government / pro-Union campaign.

      The Scottish Parliament is a Mickey Mouse institution and the SNP administer Scotland for the UK Govt, like Scotland’s version of the Indian Raj.

      The Scottish Govt should be renamed The North Britain Raj.

      The position of First Minister should be re-titled Maharajah of the North British Raj.

      Holyrood should be renamed Bollywood.

    58. heedtracker says:

      Holyrood should be renamed Bollywood.

      That’s a very weak metaphor Colin A. You’re losing your sparkle of yooness Colin but its funny watching yoon stuff lose its phoney democratic sheen very rapidly.

    59. wull2 says:

      You are better using some news papers, they are much thicker, just like the people who contribute them.

    60. crazycat says:

      @ Capella

      Well done!

      I’m planning to take the Gerwarth book back to the library in Monday – I haven’t read the rest of it, and I think it’s of no further use. I can always borrow it again if that turns out to be wrong.

    61. Andy-B says:

      @Heedtracker 12.55pm.

      Yes I read that last night, the British government are attempting to gain dominance on every EU Withdrawal bill between now and 2022. They’re intention is to have majorities on all committie bills.

      I archived the link, best not give the Huff the clicks.

      http://archive.is/245mT

      A interesting thought crossed my mind after several commentors in here claimed the people of Scotland are sovereign. If that is the case, then why can’t we get rid of Trident once and for all ?

    62. colin alexander says:

      @Heedtracker

      Heedtracker said: “its funny watching yoon stuff lose its phoney democratic sheen very rapidly”.

      It took 10 years of devolution and Brexit for devolution to be revealed as nothing but a phoney democratic sheen.

      ————————————————————-

      That’s my last reply to reactions to my comments, as I just get (falsely) accused of attempting to dominate and divert the thread.

    63. Capella says:

      @ crazycat – Gerwath has a very extensive reference section. But I couldn’t find direct reference to the Heydrich quotes. Whereas the Callum MacDonald book had nearly all of them on one page – 135, if I remember correctly. But his references are vague. He does say Lesson from History 1961, docs 19 – 22 are the source. It’s taken some time to get the correct edition.

      Callum MacDonald could have told us had he still been alive.
      Will read through the docs and post any more quotes I find. There are 8 altogether.

      Of course, this doesn’t tell us who originally pulled these quotes together into such a chilling collection. But at least if we can find the originals it proves it wasn’t just made up by some random person.

    64. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      JLT @ 12:49,

      I agree that there is an almighty reckoning coming with the EU27. They hold all the high cards and the UK has a dud hand. Thanks to a supine MSM a lot of ordinary people still don’t realise that yet, but even the Beeb and all the rest of the BritNat media lackeys won’t be able to hide the reality when the crunch comes.

      We need to keep all our options open for then, not be panicked by one WM election result into giving ground beforehand.

    65. sassenach says:

      colin alexander says:

      That’s my last reply to reactions to my comments, as I just get (falsely) accused of attempting to dominate and divert the thread.

      Hallelujah, I thought – there is a merciful God after all.

      Then I realised he was not promising to stop posting – I’m an atheist again!!

    66. Grouse Beater says:

      Heedtracker: “ Great essay GB. “Let the Scots in. Keep the Scots out. Stay with us and lead us. Stay out of English affairs.” Its not just Scots excluded from English affairs though.”

      Much obliged, Heedtracker. This week I’m mainly doing anger!

      Had a read of your Huffington link – the extremists taking over the lunatic asylum. Also fascinating to read your never-ending battle with Colin Anderson’s racist dirge.

      More racism here for those who missed it: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-jW6

    67. Bob p says:

      Scottish unionists like mushrooms. Kept in the dark and fed on bulls**t.

    68. Macart says:

      An image of Better Together after three years Chris.

      It hasn’t worn well.

      Are we about done with this ‘Bull’shit yet?

    69. Tinto Chiel says:

      Another teaker, Chris.

      If only John Bull could stay locked in his smelly wee shunkie and do the rest of Europe a favour.

      O/T: Joanna Cherry great on Any Questions? at the mo. Her clear and intelligent answers to the Henry VIII discussion met by boos from the boors of Buckinghamshire. “Humankind cannot bear very much reality” it seems, down south, as the poet said.

      Great work, Capella. Once you’ve collected all the original short quotations you can then investigate who compiled them into the original statement in the first place 😛 .

      No-one said this was going to be easy…

    70. Liz g says:

      Sassenach 1.46
      Amen to that.

    71. heedtracker says:

      Keep it coming GB, its like WoS, you devour every word. Well I do.

      “Also fascinating to read your never-ending battle with Colin Anderson’s racist dirge.”

      Haha. Colin A’s an “I voted YES and SNP but…” man. UKOK unionist trickery, old school.

      All that’s really interesting is Colin does tend highlight the online suspicion, that there really is UK gov brigade 77 thingee, lots of dingdongs sliming around online attacking democracy in Scotland, to what is presumably both full on thuggery and sneaky creepy stuff like Colin’s.

      But if they weren’t btl WoS…

    72. Tinto Chiel says:

      Oh, and by the way, I predict Theresa will shortly go for FOBO in the EU negotiations: the Flounce Out and Blame Option.

      They’re a clueless and embarrassing bunch, these chancers.

    73. dandy dons 1903 says:

      British Nationalists vows and promises are not worth the toilet paper they are written on. Scotland can do a lot better for itself away from this fraud of a union.

    74. Capella says:

      @ Tinto Chiel – och, piece of cake 🙂

      Also, where did Heydrich get his ideas from? He doesn’t strike me as being an original thinker – malevolent and psychopathic obviously. But not a philosopher.

      He does mention the colonial policies of the old German Knights Orders. Or did he study the British Empire and its evil ways?

    75. colin alexander says:

      @Grouse Beater, who is Colin Anderson?

      If you are referring to me, the screen identity I use is Colin Alexander.

      Are you saying I have written a racist dirge?

      Racism: “Racism is discrimination and prejudice towards people based on their race or ethnicity.”

      What’s racist about comparing the British subjugation of India with the subjugation of Scotland under similar systems of colonial administration.

      A system that relies on elevating the ruling political elite of the subjugated people
      ( SNP Scot Govt = maharajas in India) to administer colonial rule on behalf of the British Govt and suppress the independence movement.

      I have praised the Indian people for telling the British Govt to stick their offer of increased devolution and for how they informed the British they will become independent. No referendum required.

      Scotland doesn’t even have proper democracy – as the EU referendum proved and Scotland’s Remain vote has proved.

    76. Grouse Beater says:

      Heedtracker: “Keep it coming GB, its like WoS, you devour every word. Well I do.”

      Good to know.

      At midnight last night I stared at a blank screen, not a single idea in my head except the Bell Pottinger fiasco. By 1.30am ‘Monologues of Demagogues’ was published. Ownership of one’s country is a great motivator.

    77. Robert Graham says:

      Tinto chiel – you mentioned Joanna cherry on any questions ? Can you elaborate please, thanks

    78. Abulhaq says:

      We could have an independent Scotland now. The problem is that too many of those in favour have the jam tomorrow or lets not frighten the punters mentality. Whether a majority support our case is actually irrelevant the issue is how stongly do we Nationalists desire our country’s freedom. How many of us are willing to overturn the encumbering clutter of historical junk furniture to get to the exit? How many see inherited politics, constitutions, parliaments etc as merely human confections to be discarded when no longer productive or serviceable?
      Scots have a reputation for rather conservative thinking. We are considered reliable and boringly predictable. Perhaps sometime soon we might let go of the guiding handrail of the rulebook and opt for adventure beyond the confines of the ‘safe’. We really do have nothing to loose but our political inhibitions.

    79. Grouse Beater says:

      Colin Alexander: “Are you saying I have written a racist dirge?”

      I can’t believe a word you write. Even you surname lacks authenticity.

    80. dakk says:

      Cracker Chris.

      I see the dirty arsed old bastard is all Union Jack waistcoat and nae knickers as well.

      Sums up the British persona perfectly.

    81. galamcennalath says:

      Tinto Chiel says:

      Theresa will shortly go for FOBO in the EU negotiations: the Flounce Out and Blame Option.

      All the indications suggest that. Blame Johnny Foreigner for being unreasonable. Or put another way, blame JF for not bowing before those with God given superiority.

      However, there still does seem to be a battle between the hard and soft factions. This cartoon from the economist captures the situation superbly …

      https://mobile.twitter.com/TheEconomist/status/906117506506555393/photo/1

      A crash and burn Brexit means IndyRef2 and under circumstances which make a YES win more likely. So it’s difficult not to wish for that outcome!

    82. heedtracker says:

      By 1.30am ‘Monologues of Demagogues’ was published. Ownership of one’s country is a great motivator.

      Well its historically great stuff, like WoS. Historians will be rooting around and presenting to Scottish history students in the future…look at what Scots were thinking back when Scotland was merely a region of greater England.

      I really mean that. Imagine what Scottish history alone would be like, if we could hear the voices of Scots that lived it, like we do in writers like you?

      It so hard to really know what the human experience of Scots was like, across 2000 years of Scotland.

      Its like, did you know, throughout the Highland Clearances, at huge colonial British Imperial shipping ports like Greenock, Scottish and English mill and mine owners, the British army and navy etc were waiting to recruit Highlanders? Some were lucky and were hired for the New Lanark cotton mills.

    83. galamcennalath says:

      Just a thought …. if the Tories do walk out of the Brexit talks, could they survive as a government? Many in their own ranks might rebel. Cause another election and new government which would aim for a soft Brexit.

      Perhaps, from a hard Brexiteers perspective, they might want to wait as long as possible before crashing out. That way Brexit will happen before an alternative path can be taken,

      Time will tell … undoubtedly!

    84. Petra says:

      The best cartoon ever Chris, imo, and could be made into a placard / car poster (as could some others).

      ……………………………..

      I see the British nationalist is still hanging around spouting propaganda on here by cherrypicking data, as per usual. Every agency concerned with the wellbeing of children in Scotland supports the Named Person Scheme and most people who are genuinely concerned about children, including child care professionals, support the SNP’s move to do something about children being assaulted.

      ……………………………..

      There’s a couple of articles in yesterday’s National re. Alex Salmond and EFTA, such as by Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp. As it’s subject to debate right now I’ll post some key points / comments.

      He (Alex) says that “one of the advantages of an independent Scotland being in the EEA, over being a full EU member is that it would allow the new state to decide whether it would be inside the Customs Union (like Liechtenstein) or outside the CU (like Norway) depending on the transitional arrangements Europe makes with our English neighbours. That can secure a seamless border on the Tweed just as membership of the single market will guarantee Scottish goods and people full economic rights from Reykjavik to Riga.”

      Asked if this is a departure from the SNPs independence in Europe position? He said, “Not really. EFTA membership can, if Scotland so wishes, be a prelude to full EU membership in the future. In any case in the Scotland’s Place in Europe document the Scottish Government have already proposed EFTA alignment for Scotland.”

      There’s much more of course. Far too much for me to ‘type out’ on here. If you want access to data that other newspapers are suppressing / pro-Independence individuals that they refuse to give a platform to you’ll have to start buying / subscribing to the National. In doing so you’ll be giving a massive boost to the Independence movement. More than anything thwarting the MSM’s propaganda agenda.

    85. heedtracker says:

      That’s my last reply to reactions to my comments, as I just get (falsely) accused of attempting to dominate and divert the thread.9 September, 2017 at 1:23 pm

      colin alexander says:
      9 September, 2017 at 2:23 pm
      @Grouse Beater, who is Colin Anderson?

      If you are referring to me, the screen identity I use is Colin Alexander.

      An hour is a long time in btl world. You’re a funny guy Colin A. Have to give you that much.

    86. crazycat says:

      @ Capella

      Having a final skim through Gerwarth, I’ve spotted a few things which may or may not be helpful (mostly they are his opinions), such as a quotation from Goebbels’ diary, reporting a conversation with Heydrich:

      …He emphasizes that the Slavs cannot be ruled in the same way one rules a Germanic people; one must break them or constantly bend them….

      Later, RG says:

      It has become popular among some historians to interpret the Third Reich’s war of conquest in the East in general and Nazi Germanization policies more specifically as a German form of colonialism…

      Yet such quotations [from Hitler and Himmler, eg about Russia being their India] are misleading. The actual policies employed by the Nazis in the governance of the occupied territories bore little resemblance to British or French colonial techniques, and in fact underlined how limited the Nazis’ knowledge of Western blue-water colonialism really was.

      I don’t think RG is blind to the realities of British colonialism, though he may not be as disparaging as you or I would be, so I am not interpreting the bit I have quoted as being a consequence of looking at the subject through rose-tinted spectacles.

      It remains one man’s opinion, though, and it may well be that RH was “inspired” by the empire on which the sun never set.

    87. Artyhetty says:

      Excellent image today. Tip of the iceberg. How anyone can believe the UKOKGov britnats on anything is a mystery. We are in the 21st century aren’t we, we do have the internet, yet some take as gospel the britnat lies fed into their living rooms and minds day in, day out.

      Toilet politics from Britnats at WM, and their compliant media, and the people of Scotland are not laughing.

      The britnat establishment is running scared.

    88. Alex Clark says:

      @Capella

      Very good work, I love seekers of truth and those that stick at it through thick and thin so I do. You’ll get to the bottom of this Heydrich quote with your determination.

      A great trait determination, many, many Scots have it. Must be in our genes.

    89. heedtracker says:

      What’s interesting about Goebbels’ diary, or the comparisons, is that its not that long ago. Look at the UK generation that fought the IRA. All of them are either 6 feet under today, propping up Home Counties golf clubhouse bars and regimental old boys officer clubs. If they were around today, Scottish democracy would almost certainly have far more violent and sinister opposition. Times change, hopefully.

    90. David says:

      Yes, @Robert Peffers, all that the unionists now have left for the next IndyRef campaign is recycled waste.
      They wanted to use smears against indy Scots, but the Britnats are the ones left with the nasty smell and the skidmarks.

      Their promises and vows were never fulfilled.
      Their threats happened anyway, even after Scotland voted No.
      Their thugs, once unleashed, have remained active and have grown bolder and nastier.
      And our EU citizenship is going to be ripped out of our hands.

      We as a nation have grown. We as a nation have unfinished business, which can only be remedied by holding another Indy Ref.

    91. colin alexander says:

      @Heedtracker

      I’m entitled to defend myself against false accusations that comparing the British Govt Raj in India with the British Govt Raj in Scotland is akin to racism.

      Raj means rule.

      Who rules Scotland? The British Govt.

      The Supreme Court ruled the keystone of devolution
      – the Sewel Convention – as worthless convention, not even useful as bog roll.

      For the SNP it’s, carry on regardless.

      A true independence movement would have done the same as India and told the UK Govt to stick their devolution, fake democracy.

    92. Capella says:

      @ Alex Clark – thx, I’m definitely on a mission here, but there’s still more digging to do. Perseverance – definitely a Scottish trait. aka thrawn!

      @ crazycat – I wonder if Gerwarth is well informed about British colonialism. Hitler knew about the concentration camps in the Boer war, and copied the idea. But we in the UK were not taught about that sort of thing.
      Listening to the Shashi Tharoor video is an eye opener too. I knew about the Bengal famine from Thomas Kinnealy’s book “Three Famines” but the detail is shocking, ditto the Irish famine and British collusion in starving the Irish people.

      Tharoor link for those who missed it 7 mins:
      https://twitter.com/TheMurdochTimes/status/904992137804111873

      What Heydrich seems to have done is formulate a few simple techniques for instant brainwashing of a population in order to prevent them from even dreaming of becoming independent. That’s interesting!

    93. Alastair says:

      May”s Goverments’ Brexit song…” Rule Britannia, Britannia waves the rules”.

    94. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Great ‘toon Chris.

      O/T

      I see the Radge is still bleating on about The Raj.

      Man at C&A,
      Please Go Away,
      You can cut ‘n’ paste your Gish another day

    95. Maryscot says:

      Approx 100,000 people marching in London today against Brexit. Not one single news site filming or mentioning it. So annoying. BBC and Sky news know about it but ignoring it.

    96. Petra says:

      Keep up the good work Capella. Yes I’m following you (et al) with great interest too and have tried to help out behind the scenes, to no avail. A study of Nazi policies, their mindset, aids our understanding of what’s happening currently, and in the past in Scotland, so extremely relevant.

    97. Ottomanboi says:

      The decision on what to do about the crumbling ‘Mother of Parliaments’ has been postponed for a further 18 months. Seemingly this symbol of British democracy will cost at the very least £6bn to conserve. I do hope we are quit of this equally clapped out British state when the final bill arrives. Besides the UK is no longer a model anyone considers worthy of imitation, least of all in Europe.

    98. Meg merrilees says:

      Undeadshaun

      Interestng link at the top of this thread re suggestion that (t)Ruthless could make a good PM.

      Crazy notion however if it causes May to think twice about listening to anything the (t)Ruthless says then it will have done its duty.
      Nothing like a wee bit of uncertainty between the two of them and let’s face it there’s probably no love lost between Arlene ( No to same sex marriage in my country) Forster and (T)Ruthless, so May may tend to go with the DUP more than the Scottish Tories for her majorities.

      What a mess!

    99. Breeks says:

      Andy-B says:
      9 September, 2017 at 12:51 pm
      “Here a major donor to the Conservative party, puts the boot into the Prime Minister Theresa May’s somewhat lacklustre tenure. It does look increasingly likely that the British Prime Minister’s chances of remaining in office, after Brexit, are quickly evaporating.

      Lord Harris of Peckham, added that we would be better off with a Tony Blair administration.

      http://archive.is/NkrRX“.

      Aye, so it begins. But this isn’t about getting rid of May, this is the onset of the campaign to reposition the UK’s position on Brexit. “Listen Europe, we’ve made a frightful mess of this. Can we buy ourselves some time to rethink Brexit if we present you the head of ANOTHER UK Prime Minister on a shiny platter?”

      I’ll make another guess that both Remainers and Brexiteers will try to engineer themselves into being the ones who get the credit for bringing down May for the bragging rights and political initiative that go with it once she’s gone.

      I would anticipate Europe’s response to be a very French “Pft” and outspreading of palms. Do what you like UK, but the Article 50 clock is still ticking.

      But hey, let’s suppose Westminster does manage to pull itself back from the abyss and either postpone Brexit, or cancel it altogether, where does that leave Scotland, with all its eggs in the Brexit Horribilus basket, wrong footed by Westminster again, like Theresa’s impromptu General Election, but having tacitly acknowledged that Westminster is the UK’s only sovereign player?

      The UK saved by the scruff of its neck, and Scotland fecked by the chain around its.

    100. Proud Cybernat says:

      Scotland, we are running out of time. FFS open your eyes to the coming calamity that is growing bigger by the day on the horizon and thundering towards us like hurricane Irma.

      Aye – BREXIT.

      It is time to THINK about this – I mean really think about the REAL HARM this Tory-UKIP ideologically driven clusterphuk will do to you and your family. It will not be good. Not remotely good.

      You need to seriously start thinking about your EFB (exit-fae-Brexit) strategy – and do it quickly. The London Tory Government clearly do not have the first clue of what they are doing in the Brexit ‘negotiations’. The media talk about soft or hard Brexit as though such a thing is in the UK’s gift to deliver. IT’S NOT.

      Any deal with the EU will be what the EU insists upon, NOT what a former member of the EU demands as some kind of god-given right. And any post-Brexit EU deal simply will NOT be as good a deal as being an actual member of the EU because to do so would undermine the whole idea of the EU itself. The EU is NEVER going to give the UK a better deal outside the EU because then all of the other 27 EU members would chuck the EU and demand the same better deal the UK is given.

      It is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. EVER.

      Have you seen the prices in the shops these days? Have you seen your insurance creep up, your holiday abroad creep up, the increased delays at airports, the businesses uprooting from the UK? Well, that is just a tiny snap-shot of what is in store for us with this head-smacked-on-concrete Brexit. Because that is where these so-called ‘negotiations’ are heading.

      If you utterly detest the SNP to the core of your very being – fine. If you wish the 10 plagues of Egypt on every SNP MP & MSP – FINE.

      But this is no longer about the bloody SNP.

      It is WAAAAAYYYY bigger than that now. And you have to get a grip of that fact right now as this is so bloody serious. By all means, continue to detest the SNP. But you need to start thinking really, really fucking hard about your future and that of your family, wife/husband and kids, elderly parents. You really need to open your eyes – NOW. You need to really get a grip of what is going to happen to this country (Scotland) if we cannot get our EFB plan together – and soon.

      If you hate the SNP that much that you would willingly inflict this coming pain and misery upon yourself and your wife and kids then, well, there’s nothing really that can be done for you. But for those of you that may just be beginning to see that this Brexit malarkey isn’t the solution to the UK’s ‘problems’ you thought it was going to be and perhaps now realise that Brexit will only create BIGGER problems, then I implore you to continue to hate the bloody SNP but FFS, when the time comes, damn well vote to save yourself and your family from this looming economic disaster the Tories are taking us into.

      Indy is our one and only Exit-Fae-Brexit chance. And voting for Indy isn’t about supporting the bloody SNP. If you hate the very thought of Scotland being Independent then think of your family, do it for them and vote till you boak for indy, probably our one and only chance to escape the utter lunacy that is Brexit.

      Sorry for the rant but this is beginning to get bloody serious now. And the clock really is ticking.

    101. Capella says:

      Spain’s Guardia Civil enters weekly publication newsroom in southern Catalonia searching for referendum material

      https://twitter.com/catalannews/status/906464821486518272

    102. stonefree says:

      @ colin alexander 1:08 pm
      “Holyrood should be renamed Bollywood.”
      That would entail the tank commander dancing without a bottle in hand, singing in tune and the rest of the stuff.
      The thought of Jackie Baillie in a bollywood persona scares the crap out of me…. Gees

    103. Alex Clark says:

      @Proud Cybernat

      Well said, I see it as being even worse since Brexit is really just the start of a process that the Tories are leading us into.

      This is a dark place, maybe even a very dark place. I’m talking of the scrapping of human rights legislation, a roll back of of health and safety laws and trade union rights crushed.

      A dictatorship in other words, are people really walking blindly into such a scenario or am I exaggerating and getting a wee bit carried away with myself?

      I’m naturally suspicious but to know that my own elected government intends to scap EU Human Rights policy sends warning signals right down my spine. I want nothing to do with a UK free from EU restrictions. I’ll admit such a thing worries me.

      I’ll take a free Scotland in the EU anytime over that nightmare scenario.

    104. Abulhaq says:

      @capella
      Where Spanish state goes, can British state be far behind? if only there were not that irksome Gibraltar thing….or even Melilla and Ceuta….oh that heavy colonial baggage!

    105. Marie Clark says:

      Proud Cybernat, you have absolutely nailed it. I’m like you, I wish to goodness some folk would open their bloody eyes and see what is happening now, and the even bigger calamity following on.

      They seem to wander about just thinking, well, this’ll no effect me really. I’ve got news for you folk, it sure will effect you, bigtime. It will effect all of us and it’s going to be a nightmare.

      In all my years, I have never come a cross such an incompetent government. They are so, so, extreme, right wing, xenophobic, and aye, if they push through what they have said that they intend to, it will be a dictatorship.

      I personally don’t believe that this crowd actually want a deal with the EU. They will just walk away, blame the furriners for no being reasonable, and the deil tak the hindmost.

      I’m like Proud Cybernat, I really don’t care if your hate the SNP, or Nicola or any of the others. We’re getting way, way, beyond that now. It’s Scotland we have to try and save, for the children and their futures. Stop being so selfish and wake up for god’s sake before it’s too late.

    106. willie fae kilwinning says:

      Proud Cybernat @ 4.18.

      Well said my friend.

      Ok to copy and post to my FB page, with your credit of course.

    107. Valerie says:

      Copy link to a vid here.

      Spanish military police looking for ballot papers, and citizens singing to them. 🙂

      https://twitter.com/CarlesCaballero/status/906489301030055937

    108. mike cassidy says:

      Here’s an interesting left-wing view of the Brexit negotiations.

      Corbyn’s failure to be a failure – though hardly a success – in the general election really seems to have stirred the loins of the political left.

      http://archive.is/0Y4fN

      Go to the actual page if you want to read the comments on the article.

      And, yes, the first comment did present me with an opportunity for an irresistible wind-up reply.

    109. mike cassidy says:

      Here’s an interesting left-wing view of the Brexit negotiations.

      Corbyn’s failure to be a failure – though hardly a success – in the general election really seems to have stirred the loins of the political left.

      http://archive.is/0Y4fN

      Go to the actual page if you want to read the comments on the article.

      And, yes, the first comment did present me with an opportunity for an irresistible wind-up reply.

    110. Tackety Beets says:

      The Isolator @ 9.48

      Ach weel its SNAP !

    111. yesindyref2 says:

      @Capella
      Great work, and worth when ready an article on Wings – well on topic for the Rev’s blog.

    112. mike cassidy says:

      Thoughts on devolution twenty years on from the 1997 referendum.

      http://archive.is/r2JBD

    113. yesindyref2 says:

      @Valerie
      Luckily we don’t have an equivalent of the Gaurdia Civil here in the UK, the nearest is the military police who only have jurisdiction over the military, though events earlier this year around Helensburgh, if true, are a bit puzzling. Perhaps that’s allowed by Police Scotland, or it being Rob Edwards who reported it in January, possibly a little exaggerated!

    114. Andy-B says:

      Spanish police enter premises in Catalonia looking to confiscate referendum materials.

      http://www.catalannews.com/component/zoo/item/spain-s-guardia-civil-enters-weekly-paper-in-southern-catalonia-searching-for-referendum-material?Itemid=101

      Could we be witnessing the beginning of putting down of the Catalonian people, just weeks before their independence referendum.

      It could in turn, lead to civil conflict within Spain. So far from what I can gather the Catalonia region, has failed to garner any international support, especially from Spain’s EU partners, for its possible secession from Spain.

      Still the right to self determination of peoples is a fundamental principle in international law.

    115. Robert Peffers says:

      @Andy-B says: 9 September, 2017 at 1:30 pm:

      ” … A interesting thought crossed my mind after several commentors in here claimed the people of Scotland are sovereign. If that is the case, …”

      There are no ifs buts or maybes, Andy-B.

      Scottish law is based upon the fact that the people, not either the crown nor the parliament, are sovereign. It isn’t an old out of date tenet of the Scottish independent legal system but is applied to everyday events in Scotland.
      I’ve, over the years, quote many examples but here are a couple that should make that point clear.

      There is no English style law of trespass under Scottish law because, as the people are sovereign then, as a body, the people own Scotland, just as under English law, (which applies to all three countries of the Kingdom of England), the Queen of England is legally sovereign but, after the English parliament rebellion of 1688, (The Glorious Revolution), when the English Parliamentarians deposed their monarch, who also wore the still independent crown of Scotland, to flee England and then the English Parliament invited Princess Mary of Orange to take, not just the crown of the English Kingdom but the crown of Scotland too.

      Trouble was that Scotland was still independent and that is what led to the Jacobite Uprisings that England still claim as a Jacobite Rebellion. However, you cannot rebel against a foreign country’s monarch and Scotland, in 1688, was still an independent kingdom.

      In any event Princess Mary declined the invite and the English Parliament then offered both the crown of England & Scotland jointly to Mary and her husband William. Thus the joint Monarchy of William & Mary. Scotland remained independent until 1707 but the English were still killing Scots at Culloden in the 1745 Battle of Culloden.

      Part of the English deal with Mary & King Billy was that they had to legally delegate their legal royal sovereignty to the Parliament of England. So, in 1688 the Kingdom of England, 3 countries, became a Constitutional Monarchy but Scotland remained independent until the 1707 Treaty of Union.

      Today we Scots still have right to roam and thus no law of Trespass. This also applies to private landlords who are not legally allowed to clamp, or tow away, a vehicle parked on private land as they do in England.

      There is absolutely no doubt that the people of Scotland are legally sovereign. This is a strength but also a weakness.

      The weakness being – how do you get a majority of the sovereign people of Scotland to agree to anything never mind to independence?

      Which is where the SNP come in. The other political parties in Scotland are all unionist and controlled from London. They all vote together on matters involving the Union and only together as the Unionists do they outvote the SNP.

      The only good thing about that is that individually all unionist parties have consistently been losing members. Sooner or later one of those unionist parties is going to be wiped out. We can see the cracks widen every day but that is the real reason the Labour Party moved rightwards some years ago but sooner or later they will fizzle out. If it wasn’t for the financial help of London Labour the Scottish Labour Party would have died years ago for lack of funds.

    116. wull2 says:

      One of the main things I like about this site , it directs me to things our media does not cover, 1000 eyes are better than 2.
      Indy first, then you can vote for whoever you like.

    117. Famous15 says:

      The one thing guaranteed to galvanise public opinion in Catalunya is for the police to act as they did in the Castro era dictatorship.

      It is game set and match for Cataluynan independence.

      FREEEDOM !

    118. Famou15 says:

      Raising Franco from the grave!

      Clever move Espana. Barcelona will love that!

    119. Capella says:

      @ Famous15 – do you mean Franco?

      @ yesindyref2 – still on the case 🙂

    120. Robert Peffers says:

      @heedtracker says: 9 September, 2017 at 1:16 pm:

      “Holyrood should be renamed Bollywood.
      That’s a very weak metaphor Colin A. You’re losing your sparkle of yooness Colin but its funny watching yoon stuff lose its phoney democratic sheen very rapidly.”

      Aye! heedtracker, Colin’s wee pretence at being for Scottish independence has lost its external sheen.

      Much like the rest of unionism has. He gets more and more attack minded, even within a single topic, and is often veering off topic from the outset.

      The unionism brass neck is just like every other brass item. The lacquer coating starts to decay and the verdigrises’ get down to bare metal and start to take over. Soon the entire sheen has gone and the deterioration continues. The outward appearance of golden beauty no longer fools anyone.

    121. Famous15 says:

      Yes of course I meant Franco. Castro was very popular in Catalonia !

    122. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Robert Graham: sorry, out at the fitba’. Joanna Cherry was dissecting the Henry VIII powergrab proposals by the Tories on AQ?, clearly showing how undemocratic they are and how they leave power in the hands of unscrutinised Ministers.

      She was her normal clear and articulate self and pointed out how dangerous such powers would be for the Scottish Parliament. She was booed by some yokels in the audience.

      Capella: all I know is that Goebbels was a great admirer of British propaganda and the BBC. To be fair, Lord Reith returned the compliment by greatly admiring Hitler and Mussolini.

      Proud Cybernat: as others have said, Yea, yea and thrice yea…

      Soft Noes: wake up, peeps, ffs!

    123. Andy-B says:

      Robert Peffers.

      Thank you Robert for that info, perhaps then you could furnish me with a answer to my other point. As to why the sovereign peoples of Scotland cannot remove WMD’s from their lands.

    124. Robert Peffers says:

      @
      colin alexander says: 9 September, 2017 at 1:33 pm:

      “That’s my last reply to reactions to my comments, as I just get (falsely) accused of attempting to dominate and divert the thread”

      Falsely? Perhaps, Colin, you are not the pest person on the thread to make that judgement. Your every argument is easily proven as a rather thin veneer of lacquer that is always an attack upon the SNP. whether that attack be aimed at the party or the Scottish Government. I suspect you follow the same mantras as RISE and the truth of that faction is they are going nowhere fast.

    125. yesindyref2 says:

      OT – defence – well waddya expect from me?

      Just noticed this from Fallon’s speech at the naming ceremony of the PoW carrier:

      From the banks of the Clyde to the shores of the River Torridge this has been a truly national enterprise: six UK shipyards, 700 companies, 11,000 experts, and a vast supply chain spending millions of hours manufacturing millions of parts.

      Proof in itself of two things:

      1). The £6-7 billion carrier spending wasn’t and isn’t all in Scotland as the Unionists and David Comerford of the Fraser of Allander Institute have casually claimed

      2). While the UK can say that the UK has a 14% proportion of all spending on the 3,000 F35B-s ordered in the UK and hence of benefit to the UK’s economy, this is because it can break this down because it’s international spending, with the US and e.g. Turkey as partners in the program.

      But the UK does NOT break down spending on the carriers for instance, by spending in Scotland, England, Wales, Northern Ireland, or indeed international spending.

      So Fallon has proven Richard Murphy’s point about GERS not taking account of the economic multiplier of spending IN Scotland as opposed to FOR Scotland.

      Thanks, Michael. You’re a good chap.

    126. yesindyref2 says:

      That by Fallon, by the way, is a classic case of the way the Union is so intent on promoting the Union, that it contradicts itself by wanting its cake – and eating it.

    127. Cirsium says:

      @crazycat, @capella

      The Nazis partly based their ideas on the policies used by Wilhelmine Germany in its colony in SW Africa. The Germans took the British idea of concentration camps to the next level and created extermination camps to get rid of the Herero people in 1907. The staff who were involved in the genocide resurfaced in 1914 when they had a hand in the atrocities in Belgium and northern France. They were also involved with the Freicorps in Eastern Europe after WW1.

    128. Robert Graham says:

      thanks – tinto chiel – as others have said ha ha i got of me arse and tracked it down , she always comes across as a very competent rep for the SNP , never flustered and usually to the point ,even if as usual all snp mps fight to be heard , it must be tattooed on their foreheads , rush , rush , rush hurry them up before they start to make sense to a usually hostile audience .

    129. Douglas Macdonald says:

      This is a little off topic given a close relationship between bog roll and the Daily Mail, but I have just completed a survey sponsored by the Scottish Daily Mail on certain aspects of current Scottish politics. Anyone else seen/completed it?
      Douglas Macdonald

    130. Tinto Chiel says:

      Robert Graham @6.32: yes, Joanna is always impressively unruffled. Nicola Sturgeon can’t be expected to take the strain indefinitely, however courageous she is, and someone as calm and unthreatening to wee sensitive Scotland-haters as JC might be a smart move.

      Although the Perpetual Two Minute Hate from the MSM might make Britnats hate even her.

    131. ALANM says:

      Genuine question for all wingers – which country is the most expensive in Europe to watch your football live on tv?

      At £1,200+ for a combined Sky/BT subscription, I’d say it has to be Scotland. Next question – where does all this money end up?

    132. uno mas says:

      In light of the Guardia Civil involvement of the past couple of days in the Catalonia referendum, tonights football match at the Camp Nou between Barcelona and Español should be an interesting affair.

      For those not familiar with Spanish Football, Español are the other team in Barcelona whose support base is mostly Spanish speaking and whose political allegiance is with the Madrid based government and so of course is extremely contra independence for Catalonia.

      There is never any love lost between the teams and supporters at the best of times.

      That the derby should fall today is noteworthy.

      Expect massive demonstrations in support of a free Catelonia in the ground during the match but don´t expect any coverage of same on the media.

      Sound familiar?

    133. Valerie says:

      Some of you may know James Patrick, quite a few Indy supporters follow him. He is ex cop, turned whistleblower of Met. Now a journalist doing investigative work.

      This is a good piece on Nazis in Britain. Brief history, and bringing the main players up to date.

      https://www.byline.com/column/67/article/1815

    134. Capella says:

      Quote no 3. Heydrich and colleagues were very preoccupied by how best to Germanise Bohemia/Moravia – referred to as “The Space” to minimise any national identification.
      They wanted to sort the population into those who were Germanisable and those who weren’t. They would be sent off to the Arctic circle to basically die. This level of evacuation was impractical at the time. It involved approx 7.5 million Czechs.

      Lesson of History Doc 22
      From a speech by R Heydrich Februry 4th 1942 in the “German Hall”. p. 136

      “ I have already said that it looks s if we wanted to Germanise this space, as if we wanted to degrade the Czech language to a dialect, as if we intended to gradually educate the Czechs to make them feel as Germans. I must do this…”

      This is slightly different from “propagate their language as inferior” but has the same meaning.

      See the current debate about teaching children in Scots rubbished by Stephen Daisley recently as “slang English”.

    135. Rock says:

      Dan Huil,

      “National has story of Madrid security services searching printers in Catalonia for referendum ballot papers. Will they be smashing the Catalonians’ printing presses next?”

      The UK security services would be doing exactly the same thing here when Saint Theresa refuses permission for a referendum before Brexit is completed.

      But they won’t need to because I can say with 99% confidence that Nicola will not dare defy Saint Theresa.

      By squandering a once in a 1000 years golden opportunity by wasting more than a year flogging a dead horse – a separate deal for Scotland which was never going to happen – Nicola has set back the independence movement by at least 620 years.

      So she is now flogging another dead horse:

      “Scotland is the best place in the world to grow up in and be educated”

      Why do we need “independence” in that case?

    136. Rock says:

      colin alexander,

      “Who rules Scotland? The British Govt.”

      How can Scotland be “sovereign”, as you and many others claim, if it is ruled by a foreign government which Scotland didn’t elect?

    137. Capella says:

      @ Valerie – thx for the link. Very interesting but scary read.

    138. yesindyref2 says:

      “The UK security services would be doing exactly the same thing here ”

      No, they wouldn’t.

    139. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ willie fae kilwinning

      Eff copyright nonsense, Willie. FB away tae yer heart’s content mate. The future of everyone in Scotland is at stake here and the sleepimg majority really need to wake up soon, read the firggin’ crap on John Bull’s bog roll and realise where the British nationalist Tories (red and blue variety) are taking us.

      To a very, very dark place indeed.

    140. One_Scot says:

      wull2, have not noticed you before. Great to see new contributors.

    141. Peter Newling says:

      O/T Another fundraiser in need of some help if anyone can manage it – the Brain family of Dingwall who have been hounded and charged a fortune by the Home Office for trying to remain in Scotland, have 3 days to reach £12000. Currently stands at £4443. justgiving.com/crowdfunding/gregg-brain

      [Apologies if this isn’t a link.]

    142. Dorothy Devine says:

      Brilliant cartoon Chris.

      We were driving home through Perthshire today and noticed a wee billboard in some daft farmers field ” Vote Ruth Davidson to stop the SNP” and it occurred to me that’ Vote Conservative to EU stop Farm subsidies ‘ would be a more appropriate billboard.

    143. crazycat says:

      @ Capella / Cirsium

      Catching up after being out, I have no idea about Robert Gerwarth’s knowledge of the Empire, but he was born and brought up in Berlin, studied there and at Oxford, and now lives in Dublin where he is Director of the Centre for War Studies at UCD (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Gerwarth).

      He’s written/co-edited a book about Wilhelmine Germany and Edwardian Britain, which covers the period Cirsium posted about at 6.26, so (without trying to get hold of that), I’d guess he has some idea, depending on his expriences at Oxford, perhaps.

      amazon has this to say about that book:

      This collection of essays sheds new light on Anglo-German relations during the turbulent decades before the outbreak of the Great War. Written by leading historians, the book demonstrates that Anglo-German relations before 1914 were characterized not only by rivalry and antagonism, but also by a remarkable degree of mutual admiration and cultural cross-fertilization.

      The single reviewer didn’t think much of the section on the colonies (the massacre Cirsium referred to is apparently barely mentioned), and the section on gender is dismissed as “prolix circumlocution”!

    144. CameronB Brodie says:

      “You know, coming back in time, changing history… that’s cheating.” – Captain James T. Kirk

    145. Petra says:

      There are loads of great Shashi Tharoor vidoes on Youtube. In this one he points out to Jon Snow that the real issue in relation to trade deals is ”If you don’t really want a lot of foreigners in this country what exactly are you going to give India in return for selling your goods to the the Indian market …”

      ‘Shashi Tharoor explains that colonial past rightly won’t hold favour with Indian business.’

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msToKOCAEKI

      ………………………………………

      Peter Grant MP in the Commons 7/9/2017

      ‘The Scottish people are Sovereign.’

      http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/0e0ba062-a673-45c4-bd02-bf412bed4b46?in=13:53:18

      ……………………………….

      ‘Mervyn King on Brexit, Scotland and the global economy FULL VERSION – BBC Newsnight.’ ”

      Governor of the Bank of England from 2003 to 2013.

      20:24 mins in.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMcuV5omfC0

      ……………………………

      ‘Church of Scotland minister who guarded Hess jail says Nazi’s cell was closest he’s been to real evil.’

      Worth pointing out that he never actually met Hess. Another Nazi. Different from the rest? One Nazi I’d like to know more about … the ‘untold’ story, that is.

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/15525211.Church_of_Scotland_minister_who_guarded_Hess_jail_says_Nazi___s_cell_was_closest_he___s_been_to_real_evil/

      …………………………….

      Crucial for us.

      ‘Port of Grangemouth eyes future growth.’

      Just adding to this as I’m sure you won’t be able to see it.

      ”Meanwhile, a multi-million pound ship to shore container crane (to increase terminal capacity and efficiency) and IT systems are due in 2018.

      http://www.thenational.scot/business/15525101.Port_of_Grangemouth_eyes_future_growth/

    146. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      O/T

      I see Colonel Gadaftie was awfy exited during her review of Trident carrying subs recently.

      https://archive.is/rOBQR

    147. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      I was pretty sure @Dorothy Devine says at 8:09 pm

      “We were driving home through Perthshire today and noticed a wee billboard in some daft farmers field ” Vote Ruth Davidson to stop the SNP” ”

      That you got fined if election material wasn’t removed within a stipulated timescale after an election.

      Something along the lines of “All posters must be removed within 48 hours of the close of the poll to which they relate.”

      Bwitania Waives the Rules as per usual in her Scottish Colony.

    148. crazycat says:

      @ Jockanese Wind Talker

      Yes, the Electoral Commission (http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0013/173020/UKPGE-Part-4-The-campaign.pdf) has this to say (p10):

      Make sure that outdoor posters are removed promptly
      after the election – you must do this within two weeks of
      the close of the poll.

      Councils certainly don’t appreciate election material being left tied to lamp-posts – they have to pay someone to remove it, which is probably partly why so many councils have banned such posters. But removal of boards on private land might be trickier to enforce.

    149. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Doesn’t matter @crazycat says at 8:34 pm

      “But removal of boards on private land might be trickier to enforce.”

      If it is against the rules then it is against the rules.

      Councils say they are strapped for cash so it is simple.

      They should fine the land owners for breach of Electoral Commission Rules.

      That’s not tricky.

    150. ScottishPsyche says:

      O/T

      Listening to Shereen this morning (as a passenger in a car) I feel I am listening to broadcasts by a foreign occupying power, Tom Harris, some Herald woman, and a Tory comms type person all wittering on like it is Scotland in the 1950s – one of them actually said he hoped the SNP would raise taxes so they would get voted out as people did not like their money being taken from them by government. I do not recognise the Scotland that is foisted upon us by the BBC.

      Then I go on the internet and it’s all Susan Calman and Strictly Come Dancing. Get us out of this Union soon, please.

    151. stewartb says:

      One thing that is really telling is when a contributor here on WoS quotes a third party source, in this case our FM, in order to make a negatively critical point about the FM/SG and misrepresents what was said. Candidly, it can only make one question the status of what else the individual contributor has written in the past and may write in future.

      The quote in question given at 7.35pm is: “Scotland is the best place in the world to grow up in and be educated” and then the contributor asks ‘Why do we need “independence” in that case?’

      But what the FM said was rather different. What was actually said in her recent speech on the programme for government (with my emphasis) is in full: ” .. we WANT Scotland to be the best place in the world to bring up children, the best place to grow up and be educated, the best place to live, work, visit, invest and do business, the best place to be cared for in times of sickness, need or vulnerability and the best place to grow old.

      This programme SETS OUT OUR NEXT STEPS in creating the BETTER FUTURE we all want for our nation.”

      To check that my reproduction of the FM’s aspirational statement is accurate see: https://beta.gov.scot/publications/nation-ambition-governments-programme-scotland-2017-18/

    152. Jock McDonnell says:

      Just repeat, slowly & often, the BBC are stakeholders in the union.

    153. Tinto Chiel says:

      Capella @7.33: I wonder if “The Space” would equate to modern Scotland or “Trident Park”?

      Glad you mentioned Mr Daisley. A wee ginger dug sure bit the erse oot o’ his well-padded breeks:

      https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2017/09/04/looking-under-the-bonnet-of-language/

      I’m sure Stephen’s complete lack of linguistic knowledge won’t stop him pontificating in the future, though.

      It’s the Union Dividend, don’t ya know?

    154. Petra says:

      “We were driving home through Perthshire today and noticed a wee billboard in some daft farmers field ” Vote Ruth Davidson to stop the SNP”

      Anyone living in that area? If so phone the Council and report it. I’m sick and tired of these Unionist thinking that they can do what they like. In fact more and more Councils seem to be taking the Saltire down. What’s that all about, as if we didn’t know? We should be complaining about that. I was in Millport recently and just turned the corner onto Marine Parade and there it was blowing in the wind (scunnered me right off of my visit). A MASSIVE Union Jack (within the Merchant Navy Red Ensign) and then at the end of the road someone had tied a Union Jack right across the front of their garden fence. There was also a US flag on the wall beside, which I didn’t actually mind. That house was a four in the block type and someone upstairs had covered their windows with SNP signs and had a Saltire flying at the side. Fair cheered me up. Then I went to Bute last week. Many more UJ’s than saltires. I’m off to Arran in the next couple of weeks. I wonder how many UJ’s will have appeared since I last was there? Time to fight back. Get the Saltires in the garden folks, posters in your windows and cars.

      …………………………………….

      Anyone got any idea how people are going to be able to post ballot papers in Catalonia and how they’ll be collected and counted?

      ……………………………………..

      We’ve got the man (woman?) back on here flogging his dead horse by telling us all for the hundredth time that Nicola Sturgeon has been flogging a dead horse. As someone said on here recently you can lead a horse to water but can’t make it drink. In fact if it’s a certain type of Scottish horse it’ll probably stick it’s head in the water and drown itself. Reminds me of you. Not quite a horse but this’ll do. You’re becoming a bit of a laughing stock on here with your cut and paste comments.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRK03q76GKU

      ………………………………………

      ”So she is now flogging another dead horse:“Scotland is the best place in the world to grow up in and be educated.” Why do we need “independence” in that case?”

      Strange statement coming from someone who professes to be Scottish.

    155. crazycat says:

      @ Jockanese Wind Talker

      Provided the posters were legal in the first place, it would not be the council who got the money from any fines, but the EC.

      Although they say “must” be removed, I have not been able to find a specific offence/punishment in their vast list of offences and sanctions:

      https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/106737/Table-of-offences-and-sanctions_for_EP.pdf

      So perhaps “must” doesn’t really mean “must“. Someone could try reporting Dorothy’s sighting, to find out. (Or not, since it probably isn’t that important.)

    156. Petra says:

      I posted something ages ago, but it hasn’t appeared. Too many links? Trying again by breaking it up.

      There are loads of great Shashi Tharoor vidoes on Youtube. In this one he points out to Jon Snow that the real issue in relation to trade deals is ”If you don’t really want a lot of foreigners in this country what exactly are you going to give India in return for selling your goods to the the Indian market …”

      ‘Shashi Tharoor explains that colonial past rightly won’t hold favour with Indian business.’

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msToKOCAEKI

      ………………………………………

      Peter Grant MP in the Commons 7/9/2017

      ‘The Scottish people are Sovereign.’

      http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/0e0ba062-a673-45c4-bd02-bf412bed4b46?in=13:53:18

    157. David P says:

      Plenty of Brexit discussion today, and no wonder. It’s an absolute mess already. My thoughts:

      The EU is a club, and the UK is currently negotiating to leave the club. The only deals currently being discussed are as follows:

      Option 1: The UK changes its mind and decides to stay in the club. However, the club have now changed their rules, and a condition of rejoining is that the UK is no longer eligible for its discounted membership fees.

      Option 2: The UK leaves the club, but it agrees to abide by some of the rules and is given some access to the single market. As a result, the UK becomes ~5% less prosperous.

      Option 3: The UK leaves the club, and does not agree to abide by any the rules, and is given no access to the single market. As a result, the UK becomes ~10% less prosperous.

      When the referendum comes, will the Scottish electorate really vote to remain in the UK, knowing that this is guaranteed to make them poorer?

    158. Petra says:

      ‘Mervyn King on Brexit, Scotland and the global economy FULL VERSION – BBC Newsnight.’ ”

      Governor of the Bank of England from 2003 to 2013.

      20:24 mins in.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMcuV5omfC0

      ……………………………

      ‘Church of Scotland minister who guarded Hess jail says Nazi’s cell was closest he’s been to real evil.’

      Worth pointing out that he never actually met Hess. Another Nazi. Different from the rest? One Nazi I’d like to know more about … the ‘untold’ story, that is.

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/15525211.Church_of_Scotland_minister_who_guarded_Hess_jail_says_Nazi___s_cell_was_closest_he___s_been_to_real_evil/

      …………………………….

      Crucial for us.

      ‘Port of Grangemouth eyes future growth.’

      Just adding to this as I’m sure you won’t be able to see it.

      ”Meanwhile, a multi-million pound ship to shore container crane (to increase terminal capacity and efficiency) and IT systems are due in 2018.

      http://www.thenational.scot/business/15525101.Port_of_Grangemouth_eyes_future_growth/

    159. The Isolator says:

      Tackety Beets @ 5.08

      Great day oot with both teams goin toe to toe.

      A credit to Scottish Football indeed.

    160. colin alexander says:

      Rock asked:

      How can Scotland be “sovereign”, as you and many others claim, if it is ruled by a foreign government which Scotland didn’t elect?

      Because the SNP let them.

      Nowadays they inhibit the independence / sovereignty campaign in favour of keeping themselves as the WM devolution administration.

      The North Britain Raj.

    161. colin alexander says:

      @Robert Peffers

      This is a pro-indy website. I’m pro-indy.

      You are an SNP member. That’s your democratic choice.

      I let my membership lapse and am now critical of SNP policies and practices.

      Devolution is rubbish. The whole principle of devolution is keeping Westminster as the big boss.

      The SNP to make the SNP look like big shots, got the Scottish Assembly changed to Scottish Govt. Mr Salmond clearly has a good sense of humour.

      To support devolution is to support WM rule. That’s why Labour are pro-devolution.

      The SNP now go along with whatever it takes to keep them as top dogs in Scotland.

      But I would be happy for the SNP to prove me wrong by fighting for independence or at least a sovereign parliament.

    162. yesindyref2 says:

      @yesindyref2
      What do you think?

      Well I think this.

      Oh yes, I think that, but did you think of this?

      Yes I did, you’re absolutely right.

      Talking to yourself is contagious 🙂

    163. Dorothy Devine says:

      Jockanese , Crazycat and Petra I have no idea if the law is used against private landowners and I confess I ‘d find it hard to pinpoint the location – corner of a field, close to the road somewhere in Perthshire, doesn’t make it easy to locate should any law enforcer take it as a serious offense.

    164. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Rock at 7.35.

      What utter and complete rubbish.

    165. Capella says:

      @ Tinto Chiel – good article by WGD.
      I watched a German film of Mary Queen of Scots recently. The French actress in the lead role was very tall and it was very authentic in most ways. The French characters spoke French with subtitles, the German characters spoke German with subtitles and the English characters spoke English without subtitles.

      Mary spoke English. she really would have spoken Scots and should have done, with subtitles.
      Think it was Netflix but there’s a youtube clip:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATr1MBzdX9M

    166. Graeme says:

      @colin alexander

      If what you say about the SNP is true then we really are screwed because The SNP are the only political party strong enough to win our independence, but they can’t do it alone

      You seem to have the impression that independence is there for the taking if only the SNP would get off there arses and take it, but you seem to forget 55% of Scots voted against independence at the last referendum, they’re the problem not the SNP not even the UK government because if Nicola could be 100% sure we would vote YES in another referendum she’d be calling for it now and I don’t think there’s anything the UK government could do to stop us.

      Also bear in mind the SNP are in power in Scotland, they have to govern for all Scots not just those who support independence, they have to win the others round in spite of the might of the British propaganda machine, a hostile press and arguably the most stupid electorate electorate on the planet that takes time and strategy, I’m prepared to give them that time because the next indyref could be the last indyref (at least in my lifetime) so for me failure is not an option

      I don’t agree with everything the SNP do but try to give them some credit Colin because so far they’ve done more to further the cause of Scottish independence than anyone else including you

    167. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Whoever owns that field can leave that poster up as long as he/she likes. We live in a democracy and free speech is central to that. People are perhaps confused with the rules regarding election material put up on council property.

    168. Hamish100 says:

      Are rock and Colin Alexander one in the same?……..
      I think they should be told.

      It’s the snp fault of course that they talk tosh.

    169. Meg merrilees says:

      I hear the Briton Jamie Murray won the Mixed Doubles title at the US Open today.

      What a surprise to know that there was any British player through to the final. He wasn’t mentioned as he progressed through the heats, especially prior to the quarter and semi finals.

      Mind you, we should be grateful for small mercies…. the Colonial Broadcaster states in the LAST line of the article that …. Scot, Murray, has now won 5 Open Titles ( think he won the OLYMPIC Gold Medal and was World Number One recently, but we’ll not boast.)

    170. Tinto Chiel says:

      Capella: thanks very much for that. I will watch tomorrow, since it’s Horlicks time for the decrepit.

      Now stop slacking and get on with The Heydrich Thing!

      😛

    171. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      I’d like to know what Colin Alexander’s real name is. I have heard the same sort of divisive stuff coming from another source.

      My real name is David McEwan Hill. I help in the Forward shop in Dunoon and I live at PA23 8RN the head of the Holy Loch close to Sandbank. I have been in the SNP since 1959 and held many positions in it. I have been on the SNP National Council (and my name is forward again this year)
      My phone number is 01369 700132 and my email address is dalinlongart [at] gmail [dot] com.

      How about you,Colin?

    172. crazycat says:

      @ Meg merrilees

      Jamie Murray was world no. 1 fairly recently, but he’s not done so well at the Olympics; no medals (yet).

    173. John Bull doesn`t wipe his own ass he has a herd of Scottish journalists for that job,

      they have been happily cleaning up John Bull`s body waste for hundreds of years,

      there is nothing more craven and wretched or has there ever been anything more craven and wretched on God`s green earth than a Scottish journalist (even more craven and wretched than Scottish Labour/leftards).

    174. Capella says:

      @ Tinto Chiel – the youtube link is just a clip. I think I watched it on Amazon video. The actress is Camille Rutherford.

      http://tinyurl.com/yas6tnb4

      Off up the little wooden stair myself. So research will have to wait till tomorrow.

    175. Fireproofjim says:

      Meg Merrilees
      When you add Andy Murray’s three opens and two Olympic Golds to Jamie’s five opens you have an unbelievable achievement which may never be equalled.
      Scotland is proud of you, boys.

    176. Meg merrilees says:

      Crazycat

      Correction… thank you…

      Wimbledon mixed doubles with Martina Hingis.

      Either way, well done that man.

    177. Meg merrilees says:

      PS
      and the Davis Cup

    178. colin alexander says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill

      I would advise against putting too much personal info online. You don’t know who might read it.

      I can assure readers that I’m not Rock and don’t use multiple identities. I post under this one only in the Herald, National etc.

      I’ve been an SNP voter for years, so that’s why I’m cheesed off with them. They have gone soft on independence and sovereignty in favour of devolution.

      __________________________

      @Graeme

      You are correct to say the SNP are the administration for devolved powers. I’ve repeatedly said they do a better job than Labour did.

      However, devolution was seen as the gradualist steps to indy. So, for many, myself included, I was strongly in favour of it.

      Labour was strongly in favour of it, cos they thought it would kill off indy.

      Indyref was worth a try to reach the final step to full indy. It failed.

      It’s conjecture to say Brexit would be or wouldn’t be the tipping point for an indyref2.

      I know many see a new bridge etc as examples of how Scotland could be better as indy.

      However, these are done under WM rule, not indy. If anything they are examples of what can be achieved under reasonably competent WM rule with some devolution.

      They are reasons why the SNP can say: vote SNP to run devolution.

      They do nothing to promote independence.

      The SNP have stopped doing anything to promote independence. They don’t talk about indyref or independence.

      Craig Murray says the same. We are not alter-egos of each other, just pro-independence supporters who are dismayed at the SNP putting independence in a box, in favour of being fairly competent administrators of WM devolution.

      It’s people on here that talk about it.

    179. Baldeagle58 says:

      Peter Newling says:
      9 September, 2017 at 8:00 pm
      O/T Another fundraiser in need of some help if anyone can manage it – the Brain family of Dingwall who have been hounded and charged a fortune by the Home Office for trying to remain in Scotland, have 3 days to reach £12000. Currently stands at £4443. justgiving.com/crowdfunding/gregg-brain

      I thought that the Brain Family’s fight to stay in Scotland despite the best efforts of the British Establishment had been won? What’s this about them having to raise £12,000?

    180. Tinto Chiel says:

      Thanks: silly me. But Capella, The Union never sleeps…….

      Up all night, masel’, and me wi’ ma bad leg tae.

      And Smallaxe on border duty, with his big balaclava.

      Scotland sleeps the better furrit, I’m siccar.

      When staying in Prague two years ago with The Home Secretary, we came across fresh flowers at a few spots where resistance fighters/priests had been shot against walls in WW2. Heydrich was an absolute psychopath, but why the British persisted in an assassination plot which would inevitably bring reprisals on the local population, I don’t understand. Probably complete lack of empathy, is my guess.

      Our excellent guide said that the assassins were mainly trained in Scotland. Haven’t checked this yet.

      He was a right Scottophile: when surveying the embassies from Prague Castle (mainly the American one with its big flag), he upset our English-speaking party by saying to us two: “No Scottish embassy yet. Never mind: next time!” He was also an expert on The Stone of Destiny. There was a similar object on the site of Prague castle at one time, apparently.

      And his favourite film? Trainspotting, particularly Renton’s Corrour Epiphany.

      Mind you, his English was better than mine.

      The world is with us.

      Anyhow, since you’ll now be asleep, happy breakfast tomorrow!

      *Flits noiselessly through lowland woods, ever alert*

    181. Petra says:

      @ colin alexander says at 9:46 pm … ”I let my membership lapse and am now critical of SNP policies and practices.”

      So much to say about the SNP, critical right enough … over and over and over again … but NEVER a mention of who you’ll vote for to get Independence. Advising us of who should vote for. Care to tell us who? What Scottish political party do you think will help get us to get our our Independence? *IF* that’s what you actually want?! Patiently waiting for your reply. Who do you think we should vote for? The Greens, Labour, Libdems or the Tories? Or do you have another party in mind?

    182. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      colin alexander at 10.52

      Everybody will have noticed you haven’t answered my question at all. As I expected. Why should I be worried about putting my personal details on line?

    183. Graf Midgehunter says:

      @ CAPELLA + CRAZY CAT from 7.33pm onwards

      The speech from the 4 Feb. 1942 in German, I sent you when we started with the Heydrich quote thingy. (I know you don’t speak the lingo..!)

      It’s 8, well filled A4 pages and the passages you or Robert Gerwarth(?) are quoting are part of pages 4-5.

      From what you posted it seems to me that it’s in bits and pieces and doesn’t give the context of the original in its whole meaning. As I don’t have the Gerwarth book I can’t compare what he’s written.
      I get a gut feeling that he’s put together some parts to make a larger quote which is why we can’t find anything up till now..!

      If I get some time in the near future I’ll translate some of the relevant passages. The Polar region bit wasn’t a “left to die” scenario.

      I don’t know where Gerwarth got the “Space” word from but he’s refering to the word “Raum” which had been in use for many years incl. Hitler’s “Mein Kampf”. It had nothing to do with Czechien but refered to the less populated areas to the east – “Der Raum im Osten” – the areas, regions, territories, expanse to the east.

      In the speech he even refers to moving the 11 mill. Jews to the eastern areas, a future homeland.

    184. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Petra at 11.11

      We’ve got him. I’ll check that claim up.

      Of course all he has to do is change his assumed name.

    185. crazycat says:

      @ Graf Midgehunter

      Thank you (again) for your translations. I’d moved on to considering whether the British Empire was an inspiration for Nazi policy, and was referring to Robert Gerwarth’s other research. He wasn’t responsible for the composite quotation that set all this off, but he did provide references we thought might help. The index to his book isn’t comprehensive enough to establish whether he ever uses the term “space” – though he does quote Hitler using it in reference to Russia – and I can’t find it with a quick skim-read, so I don’t want to ascribe that to him either.

      (Poor man – he wrote a book or several and has got dragged into our search for a quotation that may not exist in the form we started looking for it in!)

    186. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Aye it is true Tinto Chiel says at 11:04 pm that SOE, Commandos (Army and RM), SAS (UK, Free French, Free Belgian etc.) were trained in Scotland during WWII.

      Afghan Mujahideen were also trained in Scotland in the 80s how to conduct air ambushes etc. against the Soviet Army of occupation.

      UK SF and various others Norge SAS for example still use Scotland as their training area.

    187. crazycat says:

      @ Tinto Chiel

      Re: the wisdom of assassinating Heydrich and triggering reprisals

      My current favourite source, Robert Gerwarth, is of the opinion that the British authorities, struggling to regain initiative after Dunkirk, wanted to incite popular unrest in Nazi-contolled territories. But they had no understanding of the difficulties faced by the underground organizations, or of the complexity of conducting small-scale sabotage.

      The Czech government-in-exile were embarrassed by the lack of resistance, but although they nagged the local leadership to take their own actions, did not inform them of the SOE plan. SOE seem to have been counting on a general uprising if there were reprisals, and tried to portray their plan as a local initiative in order not to appear to be sponsoring terrorism.

      All that, of course, is the sort of cynical British Establishment attitude that prevailed even in periods of “peace”. Covert string-pullers regardless of the consequences, by which they were unlikely to be affected.

      (That last paragraph is mine, not Gerwarth’s.)

    188. colin alexander says:

      @Petra

      My advice is: Vote Yes, if there is an indyref2, if it’s a YES/NO type of referendum. The FM is supposed to be making an announcement about that in 1 year’s time.

      There are no elections, so I can’t give advice about who to vote for. I did advise people to vote SNP at the 2017 UK GE, despite my criticisms of the SNP.

      However, you are right to say, who else would bring indy? . That’s totally true. So, if the SNP can’t / won’t / don’t do it, we are currently snookered.

      The SNP have that devolution administration / independence conundrum. Which should have priority? Clearly, the SNP make devolution the priority.
      Many would argue they must do that to give the chance of delivering an indyref.

      I would argue for a return to a vote for the SNP is a vote for indy. No more indyrefs.

      But, I’m not in charge. They have the mandate for indyref2, so we’ll see what happens in a years time.

      I spent lots of time on here hoping to influence SNP supporters prior to the policy relaunch. I was hoping for a more pro-indy policy relaunch.

      Obviously, that was a waste of time. Contrary to some people say, I’m not at the wind-up or disruption at all. I don’t want to put off a single pro-indy supporter.

      The good news for the haters, is the attacks on Stu C and Craig M have made me consider stepping back from politics altogether.

      What’s the point wasting time arguing for indy and sovereignty when the SNP won’t, and the so-called YES movement slavishly accept whatever the SNP do as the right choice?

    189. colin alexander says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill

      1. Identity theft

      2. Stalkers

      3. Some Unionist people are extremists. Criminally so.

      Three good reasons for a starter why you should get Stu to delete your post.

      I don’t want your safety compromised to score a point against me.

    190. dakk says:

      @Colin Alexander
      ‘The good news for the haters, is the attacks on Stu C and Craig M have made me consider stepping back from politics altogether.’

      Lol.

      If you keep up your prolific SNP bad diatribes you are more likely to end with some sort of gong,or a deid stoat roon yur neck.

    191. yesindyref2 says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill
      Only if you can get someone to breach data protection, and breach it yourself.

    192. Petra says:

      @ Dave McEwan Hill says at 11:14 pm … ” Everybody will have noticed you haven’t answered my question at all (CA). As I expected. Why should I be worried about putting my personal details on line?

      Meanwhile the man from C&A hasn’t answered your question or mine as I requested. Time for the man from C&A to get lost. Just as I have been booted out of NUMEROUS Unionist sites for doing no more than quoting facts.

      I’ve been told that Stu doesn’t have the time to read every post on this site. Understandable. However I’m sick and tired of the person or persons (monitors) who are allowing this to go on. On one of my latter posts the ‘monitor’ seemed to point out that my complaints needed ‘clarity’. If that ‘monitor’ can’t see what’s going on, on here I’m seriously worried. In other words time for Stu to take over.

    193. Molly says:

      Colin Alexander

      WFI had their council meeting today, the launch of 4 Indy hubs in Fife, there’s just been a rally for Indy in Berlin, the Scottish Convention is coming up , numerous apps, FB pages and groups, the list goes on…

      None of the above are ‘slavishly ‘ following anyone but what they are doing is setting their own agendas and carrying out some really good stuff so will you lay off the YES movement.

      Some of us are doing what we can, with what we can and when your up at 6 on a Sunday morning, hauling stuff to a car boot sale, to raise money for a street stall to go out in our great Scottish weather, to speak to people and get the message out on your day off it’s because the Yes movement inspires many different groups

      its funny , none of the groups I know feel the need to seek anyone’s approval ( whether that be political party or Wings commentator) they’re too busy getting on with it.

    194. William Wallace says:

      /phones Dave Hill for a drunken blether at 1am 😉

    195. Robert Peffers says:

      @Hamish100 says: 9 September, 2017 at 10:17 pm:

      “Are rock and Colin Alexander one in the same?……..
      I think they should be told.
      It’s the snp fault of course that they talk tosh.

      Nah! Hamish100, I don’t think so. It is easy to change your on-line persona but a lot harder to change your style of writing and your use of language.

      If Colin is anyone else in disguise it would be sensibledave.

      In any case, for the most part, they both should be either ignored or ridiculed. They are, after all both clowns and neither has the capacity to offer a decent logical argument.

      It is all just pure hatered of the SNP and that, as we all know is a trait common among YoonYoonists. They really cannot put up a great argument against the SNP for the SNP make few mistakes.

      There are obviously things most members can find to personally disagree with the party about, myself included, but we don’t find everything the SNP does as being wrong like Rock and Colin do.

      That’s, of course, the clue to what drives them. It doesn’t come across so much as disagreeing with any particular matter but a burning hatred of everything the party does, That rather transcends disagreement and enters the realms of abject hate.

    196. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Robert Peffers –

      Sometimes (i.e. not *very* often) I miss ‘Norsewarrior’.

      🙁

    197. William Wallace says:

      He knows so little and knows it so fluently. Ellen Glasgow.

      To seize the flying thought before it totally escapes us, is our only contact with reality. Ellen Glasgow.

      All change is not growth; all movement is not forward. Ellen Glasgow.

      🙂 😉

    198. Cactus says:

      Greetings frae Gretna!

      Aweright Croomp n meg x

      John Bull’s shat it.

      Holiday time is over…

      We’re back to business.

      Cheers fae all!

      X.

    199. heedtracker says:

      Graun gits take another long hard piss all over Scotland this weekend,

      Rough Guide poll says Scotland’s the most beautiful country in the world. Up steps Sunday Graun with Kevin Mckenna and,

      “The cost of taking a family for a holiday, even a short break, in some of our most beautiful places is not cheap. How many of us would swap much of Scotland’s natural beauty for being able to reduce the huge number of our children who still live in poverty?”

      A gorgeous new bridge over the Firth of Forth is opened and up steps the Graun with a miserable old Scots git,

      “The bridge itself is rather beautiful, but the west side of the peninsula now gives a good impression of a freeway junction in New Jersey. Thick plantings of trees may improve it.

      What has been lost? Odd little things: a quiet piece of shoreline, a view, a further erosion of Fife’s separateness – which it could be argued is for the good”

      They’re only John Bull hacks but holy fudge they are such a bunch of SNP badders. When FM Anas does finally take up his right place as hammer of the vile seps, at least massed ranks of England’s propaganda gimps will start to say nice things about their Scotchland region, maybe:D

    200. Cactus says:

      Viva Catalunya!

      Your first.

      We’re next.

    201. t42 says:

      Andy-B says:
      “Spanish police enter premises in Catalonia looking to confiscate referendum materials.”

      Its not standard police either, these are stormtroopers known as “guardia civil”.

      Note the total silence from the EU. Junkers is about to give upbeat “EU state of the union address” while a member state orders paramilitary thugs to break printing presses.

      What is our elected MEPs saying about this on twitter?

    202. Petra says:

      @ Molly says at 12:50 am .., ”Colin Alexander …. WFI had their council meeting today, the launch of 4 Indy hubs in Fife, there’s just been a rally for Indy in Berlin, the Scottish Convention is coming up, numerous apps, FB pages and groups, the list goes on …… None of the above are ‘slavishly ‘ following anyone but what they are doing is setting their own agendas and carrying out some really good stuff so will you lay off the YES movement. Some of us are doing what we can, with what we can and when your up at 6 on a Sunday morning, hauling stuff to a car boot sale, to raise money for a street stall to go out in our great Scottish weather, to speak to people and get the message out on your day off it’s because the Yes movement inspires many different groups. Its funny, none of the groups I know feel the need to seek anyone’s approval (whether that be political party or Wings commentator) they’re too busy getting on with it.”

      GREAT post Molly. Good for you Gal. Keep it up and a great big thanks from me … and many others no doubt X. That’s the reality of what we are all facing. Just as you and I and thousands of others are still working our butts off (online and in the streets) the Rocks and Alexanders of this world are sitting behind their computers, tap, tap, tapping away (no rain, no effort) trying to undermine our movement. Rock with his lazy ‘armchair’ comments about us as he sits in his armchair with his life (and any neurons he has left) draining out of him and Alexander et al (he and his family) being hit big time in the very near future. He doing nought, like Rock, such as getting off of their butts and doing anything practical at all for the Independence movement, such as trudging through rain and snow. Meanwhile we have to listen to their armchair crap on here with no rebuttal from WOS monitors at all. What’s going on?

      More than anything what could account for the armchair anti-Independence rhetoric on here? Hundreds of reasons no doubt.

      But if it’s money (a financial return) the saddest thing, in all of this, is what one will do for money (are they being paid or not?) and then find that money won’t ever bring great health, peace of mind or happiness for them or any of their family members. Most true Scots have always been aware of this fact and that is why we continue to fight for and support a Government that shows signs of being empathetic and compassionate as well as being ‘economically wise’ and of course it’s on record that MANY other small extremely, successfull countries think likewise.

      The Unionists, on here and elsewhere, just don’t get it … US SCOTS … and that is where their downfall lies. In other words we are moving towards Independence, for all the right and humane reasons, in the VERY near future and they, the mosty despicable supporters of a horrendous Union (on record), are over and out.

    203. yesindyref2 says:

      @Petra
      Personally I’m still working on the expectation of Indy Ref 2 before March 29th 2019 (Brexit Day), and Independence in 2021.

    204. Petra says:

      Hey Indyref2 I was just thinking of heading off to bed. Stalling now, lol. I’m with you on this to some extent. I predicted (with a little help from my knowledge of astrology / psychic ability) before the EU Referendum that the leavers would win (against all odds and stated on here) and then predicted that we would win our Scottish Referendum before January of 2019. More than likely win Indyref2 in the autumn of 2018 and then get into the nitty gritty henceforth.

      We are on course.

    205. msdidi says:

      Baldeagle58
      The Brain family are being put through the whole sorry saga again by the Home Office. Gregg explains on their crowdfunder page. The appeal is not doing very well and will be closing soon. There have been nasty comments left on the page and the Just Giving website has removed a page set up to “raise money to send a family home to Australia. That page was set up by someone giving the name Stuart Campbell.
      This family need our support right now. https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/gregg-brain
      http://www.thenational.scot/news/15522632.Web_troll_targets_Brain_family_with_fake_funding_page/?ref=fbshr

    206. msdidi says:

      I keep reading/hearing about the ‘substantial number’ of yes voters who voted for brexit. I have seen a few comments on facebook from some (mostly BritNats who appear to be ignorant as to how EU membership works) who ask why we want to give up London rule to be ruled by Brussels but few who are admitting they are daft enough to move from YES to NO because they would rather stay chained to the rUK and leave the EU. How was this figure – of 1/3 of SNP voters opted for leave – arrived at? The only time I have been asked how I voted was in the SNP Questionaire but, as far as I am aware, data gathered from that has not been disclosed.

    207. yesindyref2 says:

      @Petra
      Building blocks maybe. There’s Murphy for one, and he’s apparently giving evidence to Holyrood about GERS on 19th September, with Graeme Roy who was GERS for a few years and very defensive about it. Hope that goes well. I hope Roy will explain if he understand what the difference between spending FOR Scotland is, and spending IN Scotland. And indeed what an economic multiplier is.

      Talking about FoAI, here’s something interesting I found:

      Deloitte forms partnership with Fraser of Allander

      https://www.sbs.strath.ac.uk/feeds/news.aspx?id=1310

      As far as I can recall, Deloitte were quite fair about the economy during Indy Ref 1, organising balanced debates. That new partnership just started might prod FoAI to drop its often one-sidedness and gloominess about Scotland. Here’s a report the FoAI produced shortly before it was announced that Scotland had 4 times the growth of the UK, rather than officially entering recession with two successive negative quarters!

      Fraser of Allander Economic Commentary: Scotland’s economy edges close to recession

      https://www.sbs.strath.ac.uk/feeds/news.aspx?id=1265

      FoAI with egg on the face, and klingons on the starboard bow, wipe them off Jim! Or Richard, we’re going to need more tissues.

    208. Petra says:

      What a carry on to get on here! It’s taken me over half an hour!

      As msdidi says at (3:18am) let’s just help this extremely, decent hardworking family. Are you going to let the bl**dy English Home Office get away with this folks? Help them please.

      I know that we are having to put our hands in our pockets constantly right now, but this won’t be going on for much longer. Please do something for this family. They are running out of time. 2 / 3 days.

      http://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/gregg-brain
      http://www.thenational.scot/news/15522632.Web_troll_targets_Brain_family_with_fake_funding_page/?ref=fbshr

    209. Breeks says:

      Proud Cybernat says:
      9 September, 2017 at 4:18 pm
      “Scotland, we are running out of time. FFS open your eyes to the coming calamity that is growing bigger by the day on the horizon and thundering towards us like hurricane Irma….”

      I’m no fan of the SNP as a consequence of the sophistry, indifference, and contempt with which issues of great importance to me and my business were met. There were catastrophic consequences for my business then, and enduring consequences ever since, and still obnoxious arrogance from certain SNP persons who won’t even answer a question. It creates a great dilemma for me, because I am a believer in Independence and have always been.

      I’m not a hater of the SNP, although I am very much entitled to be, but I very much do have the right to be acerbic and critical of the SNP if ever, and whenever, they are getting an issue wrong, or are simply being too facile and shallow, or selling out important principles for political expedience. I have suffered the consequences of that kind of political cowardice, and I now thoroughly detest it with a passion.

      A prime example of this, although in fairness a rather insipid low level example, is the sneering SNP thought police guff about “if you don’t vote SNP, then who are you gonna vote for? Eh? Eh punk? Who?” The immediate gut reaction to that is ” none of your business, but I’m pretty sure it won’t be effing you!” Its that SNP attitude to criticism which is much more dangerous and corrosive to the prospects of Scottish independence than considered constructive criticism. The SNP does, I promise you, have a very real capacity to get things wrong, and run and hide like the archetypal political reptile when it suits them.

      To put it concisely, I am a confirmed believer in Scottish Independence, but it’s the product inside the box that I want. I’m wholly indifferent to the SNP branding outside the box. If there was the same product available with a different brand, then yes, I’d buy that other brand instead. For the time being there isn’t. Independence is only available with SNP branding; not very appealing, but tolerable if you keep your focus and just keep telling yourself it’s the product that matters. As for those people who are yet to be convinced about the product… Hmmm, yeah. Tricky.

      And just for clarity, before the choir of SNPbad martyrs turn up, getting a lot of Policy correct and doing the right and honourable thing is a feature both present, and very welcome, across a broad range of SNP policy, but all the benefit of getting 9 out 10 things right can all be undone at a stroke by the one toxic mishandling of the 10th. In a fair world it would. I know. But hey, the SNP taught me a few lessons about fairness.

      Bitterness aside however, for me, that black mark No.10 issue is how the SNP is handling sovereignty.

      Handled correctly, Scottish sovereignty is the mother of all horseshoes to be putting inside our boxing glove. It’s the secret weapon that guarantees, yes, guarantees victory by a knockout, and spares us all the anxiety of a democratic points decision from a bunch of shady BritNat gangsters calling themselves impartial referees.

      You are absolutely correct Proud Cybernat, we are entering the end-game period, and it is now more critical than ever that the SNP starts getting it right on sovereignty, and that means standing resolute and immovable from Scotland’s sovereign decision to stay in Europe. And please SNP, for once be clear, the most critical issue is not our staying in Europe, (vital though that is), but defending our choice to stay in Europe.

      I said it in another post elsewhere but I’ll repeat it.

      In the 2014 YES referendum, we chose to remain in the UK, but the decision did not threaten or compromise Scottish sovereignty.
      In the 2016 Brexit referendum, we chose to remain in the EU, and that decision did not threaten or compromise Scottish sovereignty.

      However, for both Westminster, and Holyrood, to disrespect and seek to set aside Scotland’s sovereign decision to stay in Europe very much DOES threaten and compromise the principle of Scottish sovereignty. It is a brazen, all out bare faced direct challenge to our sovereignty and suddenly the game changes and becomes an altogether different constitutional battle which we CANNOT afford to lose. We defend our legitimate sovereignty or we resign ourselves to illegitimate subjugation, and Brexit is THE fulcrum that everything tips on.

      Let me turn the Vote SNP question on its head. If it’s not Scotland’s existing popular civic sovereignty you’re going to defend, then what other sovereignty are you going to defend? Eh punk?

    210. Petra says:

      @ Breeks says at 3:51 am …

      And after all is said and done, ALL that you have had to say, if you support Independence for Scotland (a confirmed believer… yeah), who DO YOU support? Who DO YOU vote for? Who should WE vote for as per your spiel to gain our Independence?

      Sick and tired of hearing so-called Independence supporters on here running down the SNP (with not one single mutter about Dugdale, Davidson or Rennie). Still waiting for every LAST ONE of THEM (and some of us know who they are on this site) telling us who we should support.

      What about you Breeks? Forget about all of the long and very personal posts, as per convoluted whoo-ha as usual. Tell us who we should support / vote for. Ruth Davidson? Anas Sarwar / Leonard? Rennie? Harvie or eh, doh, Nicola Sturgeon? Get it out. Spit it out.

      You sound like a bitter wee man right enough. ”Bitterness aside however.” What you have to ask yourself is did this personal trait appear long before the SNP appeared on the scene? Reflect on it.

      PS I’ve listened to your personal gripes about the SG (SNP) over many months now. Should I (we) actually believe you? I wonder?

    211. yesindyref2 says:

      “The site advocates Scottish independence, but is not affiliated or connected in any way to the SNP, and neither gives to or receives money from the party, nor indeed any other party. We have an inquiring mind, and welcome intelligent contributions from all sides of the political debate.”

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/about/

    212. Ken500 says:

      Scotland has never had such good governance than by the SNP. Eve. . Scotland is doing better than it has ever done. Despite £Billions still being illegal taken out by unionists liars and criminals. Wasting public money and embezzling £Billions. Illegally taking £Billions out of Scotland with bad governance and duplicity. Trying to hide it with fiddled accounts and fiddled fudged figures, False, fake accounting, Most of them should be in jail.

      A Westminster Gov arrogance and criminality. Killing maiming and starving innocent people. Most of them should be in jail for breaking International Law. Squander and wasting £Trns of public money. Causing the worst migration crisis since 11WW. Hardship worldwide. Lining their pockets with £Billions of public money. Embezzled and misused by them and their cronies,

      Now the Westminster criminals are trying once against to destroy the Scottish economy with false claims and fidfked about migration and migrants that they have caused. Trying to damage and destroy the Scottish economy getting rid of 10,000 people that Scotland needs and cause £Billions of damage to the Scottish economy. Just as the ignorant incompetents have been doing since 1928 and before. Going from one to another crisis after crisis bring down the world economy. Ignorant, incompetent misfits who do not have a clue what they are doing. From illegal crisis to crisis. A chequered history of inadequacy and debachery.

      In spite multipule obstacles the Scottish economy has never been doing so well than under the SNP Gov. While unionists/greens are trying to bring it down in every way they can. If people in Scotland let them. Vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence, There is no other way to protect Scotland and the Scottish economy. Simple. They are standing up for Scotland. To have a better run economy, more equal and prosperous society. More cohesive and happy, They care. Ordinary, talented capable people who care about their their communities, society and others.. Standing up for what is right after Scotland being so wronged for years. By dishonesty duplicity of other political parties who do not have people’s intesrest at heart. All they care about is themselves and personal gain. What they can get out if it. Criminal actions repeatedly.

      Just vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence. Join, donate and campaign. For a better more prosperous, equal cohesive, happy society and a better country. In spite of Westminster criminality. Stand up for justice. What is right over what is wrong. Right before might. Liars always get found out. That is what is happening. Stand strong and do not waver. Scotland will weather the storm with good folk supporting it.

      No wonder people are angry, annoyed and raging. at the Westminster circus, They could not make a bigger mess. Ruining the UK/world economy, again. For the sake of their ignorant ideology, incompetence, ignorance and greed. Despicable beyond belief. Deja Vue. History repeats itself again. Making the same mistakes over and over again. The duplicity and the lies. Trying and failing to hide it with SKy and the MSM. Any distraction to cover up for the rest of the UK economy tanking. Useless losers.

    213. Ken500 says:

      Punk spread your nonsense elsewhere, This is an Independence supporting site. Stu deal with the anti/Independence trolls please. Rev Stu is busy with other matters.

    214. Highland Wifie says:

      @Petra 3.05
      Just catching up this morning and saw your early morning post.
      You may well be spot on with your predictions . An eminent Chinese master living here was asked before the 2014 indyref if we would win and gain our independence. His response was no not yet. Too soon. He predicted it would happen but about 2020. On track I would say. That’s what I’m holding on to anyway.

    215. Ken500 says:

      The world in chaos but dance the night away. The BBC £3.7Billion. Enough to relieve poverty. BBC Scotland, the Labour Party Press Office. Against all legal regulations and allegations. Above the Law. The UK Law not enforced,

    216. Nana says:

      For those who missed the first part, I posted the link on the 8th at 8.29am
      Part 2 of an investigation into the resurgence of Nazis, covering Britain’s Nazi identity crisis
      J J Patrick writes
      https://www.byline.com/column/67/article/1815

      Facebook Wins, Democracy Loses
      http://archive.is/NzFJW

      https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2017-09-08/europe-sheds-its-brexit-baggage-and-aims-for-a-bold-new-relaunch

      Britain’s drugs trade in China: a true history
      https://twitter.com/crimesofbrits/status/906132516985344000

    217. Robert Louis says:

      t42 at 224am

      You mention the Guardia Civil looting printers in Catalunya, to stop the referendum. It is more serious than it seems. You see, when the brutal Spanish Dictator, General Franco ruled Spain, it was the Guardia Civil who were his ‘enforcers’ who were responsible for the many people from Catalunya who were beaten up tortured imprisoned and killed. Spain only started to transition to democracy , when Franco died in 1975.

      It was the Guardia Civil who suppressed the Catalan language and culture (sound familiar?). It was also the Guardia Civil who attempted a military coup to prevent the transition to democracy by storming the Cortes (parliament) and taking over TV and radio stations in 1981. (video link below).

      Their is still a bad taste around all of that and the Madrid centric Franco rule.

      The behaviour of the Government in Madrid is wholly undemocratic, it is bullying and attempting to thwart a wholly democratic vote.

      It is foolhardy in the extreme, and from my eyes, will only serve to strengthen. not weaken the resolve for Catalan independence. The Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy, is being very badly advised on how to handle this – or is himself a fool.

      The attempted coup against democracy by the Guardia Civil in 1981:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pcc0_8i0CYs

    218. bjsalba says:

      @t42
      To demand that Juncker speak out on Catalonia indicates that you do not understand how the EU is constituted.

      Just as the EU should have remained silent on Scotland they must remain Silent on Catalonia.

      In 2014 Barroso (then President of the Commission) appeared on the Andrew Marr show and made remarks about Scotland and Independence. Although he tried to categorize them as personal, they were not promoted that way by Marr.

      That interview killed Barossos’s career in any official body in Europe and the world – rumour has it that he was after the head of Nato position and that Cameron promised support if he publicly rubbished Scotland’s chances.

      I would suspect that that is one of the that Marr made such nasty remarks about Barnier being unwilling to give interviews.

    219. Ken500 says:

      Spain fleeces foreigners other EU citizens. 2008 financial crisis. Not exactly the image of virtue. Including Catalonia. On the Costas. Catalonia 20%. A fifth of the population. Can make own Laws and raise taxes, more autonomy. Not full fiscal autonomy. Building housing fraud gained from the London lending markets. Let them get in with it. The crash had to be bailed out. Leaving all citizens poorer. More atonomous rights. At least Spain/Gov puts the fraudsters in jail. They are prosecute and imprison criminals. They were facilitating the illegal wars. Until they bailed out. Spain vote for Rajoy. Split 50/50? Spain kept out of the Scottish Independence/EU debate. Pehaps Scotland should do the same. Nor cloud the issues. Wonderful country. Relatively new Democracy 1976. Democratic monarchy restored,

      Very different from Scottish Independence cause/history. Different history, rights and considerations. Different electoral system. Difference union aspects and legislation. Different Law and legal system. Provincial. Not a majority support for Independence. Scotland has higher ratio of support for Independence 50/50. Issues cannot be considered without considering the differences., Each case/cause different, Scotland, Catalonia, Quebec.etc All different, history, case causes. Not to be considered without considering the differences. Before comparison.

    220. Breeks says:

      “What about you Breeks? Forget about all of the long and very personal posts, as per convoluted whoo-ha as usual. Tell us who we should support / vote for. Ruth Davidson? Anas Sarwar / Leonard? Rennie? Harvie or eh, doh, Nicola Sturgeon? Get it out. Spit it out.”

      You just don’t see it Petra. Vast swathes of people aren’t going to vote at all because their vote is worthless; ignored by Westminster, and wasted on the SNP which doesn’t know what to do with the power that it has, cannot hold anybody to account, cannot deliver justice or contest injustice, it can’t even secure a TV channel, and cannot protect the people. Oh it’s safe enough minding local government and looking after the house while we’re on holiday, but we don’t want a government doing any big stuff.

      We are dangerously close to losing the best chance of Independence, and at the very time Scotland is being subjugated by a feeble and lacklustre lame duck Tory Government, sickened by the endless propaganda on TV, being dragged to the economic abyss of Brexit, and humiliated that our traditional hospitality to foreign visitors and immigrants is being grossly mishandled, there is no credible political opposition in Scotland, a Tory rump sustained by UK blood money, and a Labour rump which is just the same minus the money. And still, in the face of it all, the SNP cannot make headway.

      I was devastated and heart sickened the morning the 2014 Referendum, but I can honestly say I haven’t felt the draught of forward momentum ever since. Brexit was a gift from the Gods, a second chance. A gift from the gods but a Tory contrivance, but Scotland rose to the challenge and gave the SNP the sovereign mandate to stay in Europe. Do you understand that yet Petra? A SOVEREIGN mandate. An immovable constitutional obstacle to prevent Westminster dragging Scotland out of Europe. If the “UK” went ahead with its madness and Brexited itself, the rupture would not only occur mid Channel, but along the Scottish border too. It would be neither the state Europe nor static Scotland held accountable for the rupture, but the headstrong foolish bloody mindedness of the English xenophobes and soulless oligarchs who would tear the UK apart.

      We were there! Saved! But what does the SNP do with this pristine, unequivocal sovereign mandate to do nothing except hold our current position? Why it pisses it up against the wall, sidesteps the immovable obstacle, doesn’t recognise it as sovereign, and arbitrarily decides Scotland didn’t actually mean staying in Europe, but actually wants to join hands with Norway. Our Scottish government is not now fighting Brexit, but hoping for a playoff place in EFTA, having slipped out from under the mandate to remain in the EU.

      Don’t ask me who I’ll vote for Petra, I’ll vote for whoever is most likely secure our sovereign independence, but the SNP had my vote, had wall to wall majorities in Holyrood and Westminster, but squandered their winning hand because they didn’t understand Scotland’s unique sovereignty and weren’t smart enough to make it count for something. Now we are marching to victory under the rousing banner “let’s wait and see what Brexit looks like”. Not only is it “let’s wait and see what Brexit looks like”, but that’s yer lot! Nothing is happening until then. Wow. What ardent and passionate revolutionaries we all are, aren’t we???

      For the life of me, I cannot understand why the SNP shirks Scottish sovereignty as if it was poison, and suckles onto the teat of Westminster instead, which actually is poisonous. Europe knows the power of our sovereignty better than we do. We are amateurs and right now we are struggling.

      I wish I could make you see what I see.

      An independence campaign which has no grasp of its sovereign objective is a meandering, ephemeral and aimless waste of our time. Its like Groundhog Day, where Unionism returns no bore us to death day, after day, after day… the same old rejects appear every election.

      Put Sovereignty into the mix, that is Scotland’s unique and inalienable sovereignty, and everything changes. Scottish sovereignty is the thing which Westminster has no answer to. Sovereignty is where we start winning.

      I believe the SNP’s Autumn conference is the Last Chance Saloon. There is still time and opportunity for Nicola to retrace her steps back to the 2016 Brexit mandate which remains a sovereign redoubt, and invigorate the whole Independence campaign by placing our sovereignty at its core. Do that, and we can win. But deliver another round of insipid platitudes and eclectic aspirations, and however noble it might sound, all will be lost.

      Please SNP conference goers, Alyn Smith did not abandon Scotland. I beg you, do not abandon Alyn Smith. Fight to hold our place in Europe because ONLY that position respects the sovereignty of the people. You already have the democratic mandate to do it. Stand by it or be damned.

    221. Robert Peffers says:

      @t42 says: 10 September, 2017 at 2:24 am
      Andy-B says:

      ““Spanish police enter premises in Catalonia looking to confiscate referendum materials.”
      Its not standard police either, these are stormtroopers known as “guardia civil”.
      Note the total silence from the EU. Junkers is about to give upbeat “EU state of the union address” while a member state orders paramilitary thugs to break printing presses.
      What is our elected MEPs saying about this on twitter?”

      Aaaah!
      I’ve got it now!

      You are Colin Alexander and I claim my £5.00.

    222. Capella says:

      I missed a busy night here!
      @ Graf Midgehunter – the quote about ‘Germanising this space’ is on p.2 of Heydrich’s Feb 4th 1942 speech. In Vaclav Kral (ed) Lesson from History 1961. Doc 22. It’s a collection of documents concerning Nazi policies for Germanisation and extermination in Czechoslovakia.
      It’s in English translation from the original Czech.

      Callum MacDonald in ‘The Killing of Reinhard Heydrich, says :
      “Space was a word deliberately chosen to deny Czech nationhood and imply a cultural void waiting to be filled by Germany.” p. 135.

      Pressure to assassinate Heydrich came from the exiled Czech leadership in London, Eduard Benes. The Czechs had excellent intelligence which London wanted to keep.

      @ Tinto Chiel – modern Czechs will identify with a small occupied nation struggling against a big, powerful and bullying neighbour!

    223. Capella says:

      Should have made clear – the Vaclav Kral book would have been written in Czech but the documents referred to are, of course, written in German being memos, minutes and letters from their high command. There are photocopies of the original docs but not of Heydrich’s long speech So don’t have the original German word translated here as “space”.

    224. Breeks says:

      Last wee point… I’ll keep it short.

      In 2016, the sovereign people of Scotland voted to remain in Europe, however Westminster refused to recognise the sovereignty of the Scottish electorate, and insisted the Scottish vote was not sovereign and fell beneath the greater sovereignty of the unitary UK parliament, and as such could be overruled or simply ignored, and the will of Westminster held as supreme.

      If we do not protect our distinct Scottish sovereignty, then the above sentence will also apply to any and every future Independence referendum too. There will be no point holding any referendum.

      Defend the sanctity of our sovereignty, and even god forbid we vote No in the next referendum, it will still be the No vote of a people who are deluded and stupid, but yet remain sovereign despite their delusion and stupidity.

      But kneel in subjugation as Westminster forces Scotland’s exit from Europe against our sovereign democratic majority, and you become complicit with the selling out of Scotland’s sovereignty. We will not be sovereign any more. Don’t you dare ask for my vote of endorsement for that or anything after. Instead may your bones lie unburied on unhallowed ground to be spat on day and night in perpetuity by sovereign Scottish rain.

    225. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      msdidi at 3.47 am

      Exactly. I know a few but it is coming in at probably less than 10% and not one of them would vote anything other that YES in any referendum.

    226. Tinto Chiel says:

      Jockanese WT and crazycat: thanks for the info re. Scotland being a WW2 training ground for agents and armies.

      It doesn’t seem to be confined to the Highlands today. While climbing in the Dalveen Pass two years ago I was amazed to see a Hercules transport flying at what seemed to me to be stall speed THROUGH the pass, not over it. I was talking to a fisherman later who said helicopters took part in nocturnal flights there, dropping soldiers in training missions. Seems to be very common in that area.

      Capella @9.15: indeed. He knew far more about Scotland than most Scots but that’s not difficult, I’m afeared.

      *sighs*

    227. Andy-B says:

      The NHS in England, appears to be going from bad to worse, as a majority of senior doctors believes coming “reforms” will see staff lose their jobs, and hospital closures.

      Patients will also suffer long waiting times.

      Thankfully the NHS in Scotland is a separate entity, though if cuts are set for England’s NHS, then there could be a financial knock-on to NHS Scotland.

      http://archive.is/0PBif

    228. crazycat says:

      @ Tinto Chiel at 10.28

      Where I live (a few tens of miles south-west of your eponymous hill), low-flying aircraft have been using the river valley for training for decades.

      The local newsletter used to publish the dates in advance; I complained and the MoD sent a very charming policeman to see me. We had a very friendly chat, but we both knew he wasn’t going to convince me it was necessary/acceptable, and I wasn’t going to have any effect on MoD policy.

      The frequency of these “exercises” varies; for quite a while there were none, but they have started again. I also saw the Red Arrows on their way to the bridge last Monday. No coloured smoke for me, though.

    229. Petra says:

      @ Highland Wifie at 7:20am ……. “Eminent Chinese Master.”

      Like him, HW, I’m in no doubt that we will win the next Indyref2. Probably being held at the tail end of next year and of course at that point in time a date being set for Independence itself which would probably coincide with his 2020 date.

      He sounds like a very interesting man. You say that he’s a Chinese master. Does that title relate to education HW?

      ……………………………………

      Breeks as pointed out before the fact that 62% of sovereign Scots voted to Remain in the EU tells us nothing about the percentage of sovereign Scots who would vote for independence. That’s no doubt what weighs heavily on Nicola Surgeon’s mind and accounts for the steps that she takes.

      A third of all sovereign Scots didn’t vote in the EU referendum. A third of sovereign Scots, of those who actually voted, voted to leave the EU and we have no idea of the percentage of the 62% of remainers who actually support remaining in the Union: Not an independent Scotland.

      At the end of the day we need over 50% of sovereign Scots to support Independence and the ONLY party that’s going to help us to get there is the SNP. Strange that you, who purports to want Independence, can’t see that and spends so much time on here trying to turn everyone against them. How’s that going to help us to get our Independence?

      You never outline what Nicola Sturgeon should have done / do either (or if you have I’ve missed it). Should she have held another referendum following the EUref result, one that we would have most probably lost, for a multitude of reasons, or do you advocate her calling UDI which could result in a Civil War in Scotland? Neither of these scenarios appeal to me.

    230. Tinto Chiel says:

      crazycat: answered on the new thread by mistake.

      *beamer*

    231. crazycat says:

      @ Tinto Chiel

      I wasn’t expecting a positive outcome, but I agreed to the visit out of curiosity, and it was quite entertaining. (One interesting thing he did point out – which was obvious, but I’d never thought about it – is that if you’ve heard the noise, it isn’t going to crash on your house because it’s already gone past.)

      What I don’t know is whether peaks in activity here are indicative of heightened alerts overall, or whether they just move round the UK anyway, to avoid annoying the natives in any one place too much.

    232. Rock says:

      stewartb,

      “What was actually said in her recent speech on the programme for government (with my emphasis) is in full: ” .. we WANT Scotland to be the best place in the world to bring up children,”

      Meg merrilees says:
      8 September, 2017 at 12:54 am (Mascot Of The Universe):

      “Nicola’s rallying call:

      The message that I want to send out to people here at home, to people elsewhere in the UK and people internationally … is:

      Scotland is the best place in the world to grow up in and be educated,
      Scotland is the best place in the world to be cared for if you are sick or vulnerable or in need,
      Scotland is the best place in the world to grow old in
      and it’s the best place in the world because of our investment in infrastructure, in digital and in business support to invest and do business in as well.
      That’s the message I want to send to the world about Scotland and all of us need to make sure we do everything that is necessary to deliver that kind of world class nation.”

      Where is the WANT in the quote?

      Don’t blame me if Meg merrilees misquoted Nicola.

    233. Rock says:

      colin alexander,

      “Rock asked:

      How can Scotland be “sovereign”, as you and many others claim, if it is ruled by a foreign government which Scotland didn’t elect?

      Because the SNP let them.”

      Was Scotland “sovereign” during the Labour-LibDem governments?

    234. Rock says:

      Robert Peffers,

      “They are, after all both clowns and neither has the capacity to offer a decent logical argument.”

      You are an aggressive verbal bully here and almost certainly a nasty person in real life.

      If you are as clever as you think, why don’t you have your own site to flog your “knowledge”?

      Instead of contaminating every article on someone else’s website with your verbal diarrhoea.

      Why haven’t you ever written a book on the history of the union?

    235. Rock says:

      Gordon Brown might have called Scotland “North Britain” while it was a colony.

      But Robert Peffers insists on being “British” AFTER independence.

      Who is the bigger clown?

      Robert Peffers (4th February – The Sirens),

      “The Irish, whether they like it or not, live in the British Isles and are thus British. If they choose to claim not to be British then, like you, they have conceded their right to be British to the United Kingdom.”

      Rock,

      “”Conceded”?

      They escaped from being “British” after a long and bloody struggle.

      Who in their right mind in an independent Scotland would want to be called “British”?”

    236. Tinto Chiel says:

      I don’t think they care about the disruption they cause around Scotland, crazycat, but good on you for making them listen to your complaint.

      When I think of Faslane et al., I just get enraged.

    237. Highland Wifie says:

      @Petra
      He’s a genuine Feng Shui master who has studied this all his life (as opposed to someone who has done a short course!) and has the skills to predict events and read faces. He is indeed a very interesting gentleman. Some of his abilities are genuinely amazing. He does not court publicity and is a very private individual so I am reluctant to provide more detail.

    238. ItsAYesFaeGlesga says:

      This is the best one yet, love it! 🙂

    239. meg merrilees says:

      Rock and stewartb

      If you look back at the original post 12.54am Sept 8th ‘Mascot of the Universe’
      you’ll see that I identify the quote of Nicola’s speech as coming from FMQ’S earlier approx 12hours earlier.

      Facts dear boys, facts…always check the facts.

    240. Petra says:

      @ Highland Wifie says @ 8:53 pm ….. ”Petra … He’s a genuine Feng Shui master who has studied this all his life (as opposed to someone who has done a short course!) and has the skills to predict events and read faces. He is indeed a very interesting gentleman. Some of his abilities are genuinely amazing. He does not court publicity and is a very private individual so I am reluctant to provide more detail.”

      Hi HW. Thanks for getting back to me. I think I know who you are referring to (CKW?). If I’m right he’s very well known and respected.

    241. Petra says:

      Thanks for the links Nana, in particular the Richard Murphy / Tax Research.

      I see that Richard Murphy is appearing before the Economy, Jobs and Fair Work Committee of the Scottish Parliament at Holyrood on September 19th. He outlines that the committee is reviewing the quality of Scottish economic data with a focus on the following issues:

      1.Accuracy (how reliable is the data)

      2.Utility (how useful is it)

      3.Interpretation (how to make sense of it)

      4.Scrutiny (what are we measuring and does it encourage effective scrutiny)

      He concludes that GERS data:

      1. Has limited accuracy or reliability at best and with regard to the Scottish deficit is potentially misleading and inaccurate.

      2. Has limited usefulness as a result.

      3. Is not worth analysing in great detail because by design the information it presents does not make sense.

      4.Does not encourage effective scrutiny. Needs to be redesigned if it is to be fit for purpose.

      WOW! If he’s correct, and I’m sure he is, how will the Fraser of Allander Institute explain that one away?

      Check out his full submission.

      http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017/09/10/my-proposals-for-improving-scottish-economic-data-suggest-there-could-be-life-after-gers/

    242. Rock says:

      meg merrilees,

      “Rock and stewartb

      If you look back at the original post 12.54am Sept 8th ‘Mascot of the Universe’ you’ll see that I identify the quote of Nicola’s speech as coming from FMQ’S earlier approx 12hours earlier.”

      Either yourself or stewartb have misquoted Nicola. Don’t blame me.

      There was no ‘WANT’ in your original quote, on which I commented:

      Meg merrilees says:
      8 September, 2017 at 12:54 am

      “Nicola’s rallying call:

      The message that I want to send out to people here at home, to people elsewhere in the UK and people internationally … is:

      Scotland is the best place in the world to grow up in and be educated,
      Scotland is the best place in the world to be cared for if you are sick or vulnerable or in need,
      Scotland is the best place in the world to grow old in
      and it’s the best place in the world because of our investment in infrastructure, in digital and in business support to invest and do business in as well.
      That’s the message I want to send to the world about Scotland and all of us need to make sure we do everything that is necessary to deliver that kind of world class nation.”

    243. Meg merrilees says:

      Let me spell it out clearly Rock.

      https://www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/first-ministers-questions-september-7-2017

      Go to the above website and listen in about 12mins 16seconds.
      Nicola uses the word ‘WANT’ three times in the next 15 seconds or so, four times in all, and then delivers the speech printed above, word for word.

      At no time did I misquote her and here is the Holyrood transcript of her speech.
      Go to this website:
      https://goo.gl/zPYPRC
      select FMQ’s, followed by Income Tax, and then scroll to the FM’s last reply.

      The First Minister:
      What is damaging the reputation of this country right now is the isolationist, inward-looking Brexit approach of the Tories and things such as the leaked Home Office proposals showing how the Tories want to punish people who come from other countries and to introduce measures that would be devastating for our economy.

      As for the tax issue, we will have that debate and involve everybody, including business. Its views are hugely important, as are the views of those who work in our public services and the public at large. However, the message that I want to send about Scotland—and I want to send it to people here at home, elsewhere in the UK and internationally—is that it is the best place in the world to grow up and be educated in; it is the best place in the world to be cared for if someone is sick, vulnerable or in need; it is the best place in the world to grow old in; and because of our investment in infrastructure, in digital and in business support, it is the best place in the world to invest and do business in. That is the message that I want to send the world about Scotland, and we all need to make sure that we do what is necessary to deliver that kind of world-class nation.

      You’ll notice that Holyrood substitute Nicola’s repeated use of the word ‘Scotland’ with ‘It’ so in fact Holyrood have not transcribed a literal copy of her speech but you can listen to the Parliament TV video if you really want to split hairs.

      I did not apportion any blame to you, I posted in order to clear up an obvious misunderstanding. But since you insist on accusing me of false actions, an apology would be nice. I’m not holding my breath.

    244. Meg merrilees says:

      Rock

      I first quoted Nicola on Sept 7th 1.19 pm – ‘Under test conditions’ : – clearly contains the word ‘want’
      I copied and pasted the same speech on Sept 8th at 12.54 and 1.00am – ‘Mascot of the universe’ thread: – still contains the word ‘want’.

      Again on this thread clearly I’ve written ‘want’, Holyrood has written ‘want’ and you can hear Nicola say it clearly on video.

      Stewartb on Sept 9th@ 8.53 also includes the word ‘WANT’ in BIG letters in his quote so he isnae getting it wrong either.

      That’s two against one…

    245. Meg merrilees says:

      PS Rock

      Have you not twigged that ‘stewartb’ and I are quoting from two different speeches that Nicola gave on the same subject.
      Stewartb on her speech on the programme for government and me on her reply to Ruth Davidson at FMQ’s sept 7th

    246. Rock says:

      Meg merrilees,

      “PS Rock

      Have you not twigged that ‘stewartb’ and I are quoting from two different speeches that Nicola gave on the same subject.”

      I commented on your quote.

      You and ‘stewartb’ can decide who was quoting what.

      If Nicola said what you quoted her as saying, she was flogging a dead horse:

      Meg merrilees (8th September – Mascot Of The Universe):

      “Nicola’s rallying call:

      The message that I want to send out to people here at home, to people elsewhere in the UK and people internationally … is:

      Scotland is the best place in the world to grow up in and be educated,”

      Rock:

      “Is it really?

      What is the life expectancy in Glasgow, Scotland’s biggest city?

      What is it in her own constituency?

      Why do we want “independence” then?

      Nicola really must stop flogging dead horses and instead highlight what we could make better by becoming independent.”

    247. Rock says:

      Meg merrilees,

      I don’t know which other quotes you had posted.

      There is no ‘WANT’ in the quote I read and commented on.

      Meg merrilees says:
      8 September, 2017 at 12:54 am (Mascot Of The Universe):

      “Ghillie and
      For anyone who missed it today at FMQ’s

      Nicola’s rallying call:

      The message that I want to send out to people here at home, to people elsewhere in the UK and people internationally … is:

      Scotland is the best place in the world to grow up in and be educated,
      Scotland is the best place in the world to be cared for if you are sick or vulnerable or in need,
      Scotland is the best place in the world to grow old in
      and it’s the best place in the world because of our investment in infrastructure, in digital and in business support to invest and do business in as well.
      That’s the message I want to send to the world about Scotland and all of us need to make sure we do everything that is necessary to deliver that kind of world class nation.”

      Where is the ‘WANT’? Did I remove it?

      Stop blaming me. I did not mis-quote you.

    248. Meg merrilees says:

      Can’t make myself any clearer Rock.
      I’ve listed all the quotes I made containing Nicola’s speech and each posting is a cut and paste of the original. I’m unable to edit them after posting so I fail to see how there could possibly be a posting that does not contain the word ‘want’ or ‘WANT’ as you seem to want to shout!
      I transcribed a speech Nicola gave personally at FMQ’s in her reply to Ruth Davidson as displayed above. I have written it down word for word – every word that she says. ergo

      The message I want to send out to people etc.. is that Scotland is the best place in the world etc…

      The speech Stewart b is referring to is similar in sentiment to the FMQ version except it was given on a different day and in that version Nicola says :

      I want Scotland to be the best place in the world to grow up in etc…

      Perhaps it is the second speech example which you thought I was quoting from minus the ‘want’.

      I’m not blaming you for anything but I am pointing out that I have not misquoted the First Minister as you so wrongly believe. Listen to her speech on FMQ’S 7th September.
      I really can’t be any clearer and can’t spend any more time on this.

    249. Rock says:

      Meg merrilees,

      “The message I want to send out to people etc.. is that Scotland is the best place in the world etc…”

      stewartb,

      “we WANT Scotland to be the best place in the world to bring up children,”

      I leave it to you to figure out that your ‘WANT’ and stewartb’s ‘WANT’ are in different places, completely changing the meaning of the statement.

      I commented on your quote which was “Scotland IS the best place in the world”, which is flogging a dead horse, because why would Scotland want independence if it was already the best place in the world?

      “Scotland IS the best place in the world” is completely different from “we WANT Scotland to be the best place in the world”

      Or do you think they mean the same thing?

      My comment on your post is fully justified and if you don’t think it is, so be it.

      I can’t be any more clear than that.

    250. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      I believe the roman-à-clef genre has a lot to answer for.

      Some have it; most don’t. When you are between the hard place, you must be there, or elsewhere.

      http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/reviews/book-review-the-last-word-by-hanif-kureishi-9114752.html

      However, more meaningful input is found here:-

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/off-topic

    251. Meg merrilees says:

      Rock – no, you still don’t get it…

      My quote of Nicola begins AT the words, and has ALWAYS begun at the words:

      …”the message I want to send out.. is.. , that Scotland is the best place etc…”

      Your accusation was – if you can remember back half a lifetime – that I had misquoted Nicola. This is where you are wrong. I can assure you at all times I have quoted Nicola verbatim.

      It just so happens that she made two ‘similar but different speeches – not having heard the speech stewartb refers to, only her FMQ speech, I agree with you that the two speeches are subtly different but that is not the point being discussed here.

      I have never disagreed with you that the speeches had different meanings. All I have tried to do is clear up your misunderstanding regarding my supposed misquoting of the First Minister’s speech to FMQ’S Sept 7th 2017, a totally false accusation.

      THE END.



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