The bones of what you’ll believe
This is what the media is asking you to swallow today, readers:
“If Scotland wants to be like the vast majority of NATO members and have no nuclear weapons stationed on its territory, NATO will cut off its own nose to spite its face and reject Scotland as a member, even though that would leave the strategically-crucial North Atlantic Gate (also known as the ‘GIUK Gap‘) guarded by a non-member state and one with basically no military at all.”
Right.
Uh-huh.
Sure. Of course.
We’ve said it before, readers, and with the heaviest of hearts we must presume that we’ll have to say it many more times in the next 100 days: they think you’re morons.
(For more detail on why #1 is drivel, see here, here and here. For why #2 is cobblers, see here. For why #3 is a pile of dog’s doings, use your common sense.)
“They think you’re morons.” And if we vote no, they’re right.
I prefer the term dogs eggs 😀
John Reid is on the Sunday Politics show talking pure mince…
Labour heavyweight?? Labour deadweight more like…
Cheer up Rev, it’s only going to get worse ! Let’s take them on and win big, 74% YES for me
Reid Brewer BBC
Another Union BBC Broadcast. Reid is another deceitful piece of work, who is watching his own earnings and status.
A weasel, given a soft ride by Brewer. BBC at it’s best.
Yes, the test of whether we are morons or not comes on September 18th.
and if they starve us of Oxygen does that make us
Oxymorons.
If we think the media coverage of D-Day is crass just wait till the 1914 “commemorations” begin in earnest. Sickening.
Brewer says Reid brought in to appeal to male working class voters….
Male working class voters like “Lords”?
Aye – that’ll right… dream on.
There is a story in the Independent with a bazaar twist about the the MOD never having done any Nuclear clean up in the British Isles ever now being thrown ‘scary mounting delays’ due to Scotland becoming Independent:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/scottish-independence-yes-vote-could-scupper-nuclear-cleanup-9506957.html
Further information on this ongoing story here:
http://www.robedwards.com/2014/02/3600-tonnes-the-huge-radioactive-waste-problem-faced-by-rosyth.html
You are right Rev, all this is Union mince, there is no depth to which they will sink, much more will come as panic sinks in.
Stuff them, let all this go over your head, we are on our way to our destiny and will not be swayed by their crap.
John Reid: Baron Reid of Cardowan. Vermin in ermine.
So unelected Labour Lord for life John Reid ends lovely vote no puff from Sir Gordon Brewer’s vote no BBC and its vote no for “best of both worlds, Scottish parliament running Scottish affairs, Westminster running inaudible mumble…”
Nice summary Rev. Made me smile!
Ooh, a ChVrches headline. Trendy wee thing you.
Save your pennies, everyone, for the NOB-bands, launching tomorrow. And they need your pennies – their donate page shows a mighty 20 quid donated in the past week. Snigger.
The men who have died over the centuries in Britain’s wars didn’t sacrifice their lives willingly – It was the generations of Westminster politicians, that elite who revel in war for their own glory, that willfully sent them to their deaths.
I’ve just watched one of our hypocritical Labour Lords (working class Labour Lord, what a feckin’ oxymoron) being interviewed by Gordon Brewer – The one who goes to Parkhead and sings Irish rebel songs about getting the British out of Ireland, but doesn’t want the same for his own countrymen.
I’m surprised that Rooster Brewster didn’t ask John if he would get his guitar out and sing White Cliffs of Dover to see out the show.
Adrian B says:
Adrian, I think in negotiations with rUK following a YES vote. The SG should insist in a program of nuclear contamination. In Scotland HAS to be guaranteed in writing ( Undersigned by Obama, The pope, head of EU, er god!)
Otherwise we will demand immediate dismantling and removal of nuclear weapons. No time gap to help a country who has poisoned our environment. If it is not dealt with from the start, we will be left with their mess.
The New Statesman “blood and soil” article was well timed for the D-Day commemorations.
To smear 45% of the Scottish voting public as Nazis is maybe perceived as a clever way of framing their outrage from a position of weakness.
Who continues to buy the Scotsman? I struggled to read that.
I had a quick swatch at a Herald yesterday . . . full of the standard NO fodder but interestingly ALL the letters on the letters page were from YES supporters.
How long until another paper comes out for YES and which one will it be?
Lord Reid G4S
Baron reid of Cardowan. You just spoilt ma Sunday SLAB has a plethora of deadwood and ignorance at its disposal, unfortunately this one obviously escaped his escort today and was allowed to waffle like a budgie before they got him back in his cage to play with his mirror and bell. Ting ting, whose a pretty boy then.
So are they saying that all the voluntary money raised in Scotland for cancer research should be spent elsewhere just because Scotland makes its own decisions on how it wants to spend its taxes?
Not really O/T Rev. I have returned from my trip South and spent a few days at the Hay Book Festival. I purchased a new book “Super Highway, Sea power in the 21st Century by Chris Parry and had a brief chat with him whilst he signed my copy. He asked twice what I thought the referendum result would be. I replied that I didn’t know. He remarked “We don’t want you to leave”. He had served with some excellent Scottish people and volunteered the statement that the boats would be based in a US port if they had to leave Faslane.
For information Chris Parry is a retired Rear Admiral who now has a business addressing strategic naval planning. His book is well worth reading.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Parry_%28Royal_Navy_officer%29
Lord Parkheid was not asked about his disgraceful term in office or dirty sectarian propaganda.
Brewer is currently pussyfooting with Pauline MacNeil. I think I’ll switch over to Pepa Pig.
@Adrian B
Re Nuclear clean up
As part of the negotiations we just dock all clean up costs in Scotland off the amount of debt we accept. Then we pay for the cleanup. The ongoing storage of the waste is obviously something else for the negotiations.
I can see Scotland accepting very little debt in the final tally!
Those of us who come here aren’t morons; but we’re not the problem.
Ah..
He has been invited to Scotland by former Prime Minister Gordon Brown, who last night welcomed the scientist’s dramatic intervention in the separation debate
They clearly do think we are morons!
I am astonished that there is not greater reaction to the BBC role in Obama’s statement against Scottish independence. It is now confirmed that not only did No. 10 ask Obama to make the statement, they set up the BBC to ask the question that prompted it.
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/ on BBC lawbreaking
The trouble is I’m sure every independence supporter who frequents your pages will all know someone who believes shite like this without questioning the common sense of any of it.
NATO will abandon the strategic point of the GIUK Gap. Not they won’t; the author of the article might not understand what ‘strategic’ means but NATO certainly does. Total nonsense.
Independence will stop research across borders. But it patently doesn’t, because international research agreements are common as muck. Total Nonsense.
D-Day used to support the union isn’t crass? I don’t think I’ll bother saying just how ridiculous that statement is. It is very clearly just about the crassest thing that has happened in a whole campaign of crass things from the No camp. And it will remain that way right up until the ‘commemorations’ of the start of World War One which will then take over the title of Ultimate Crass.
The people who write on this site are well educated informed people. But the majority of the general public in Scotland could not tell you how many nuclear armed subs are based at Faslane They do not know that the NHS is being privatised in England.They do not know that one in four children in Scotland are born into poverty. They do not know the financial implications of more austerity cuts in the next parliament. In a recent poll 40% did not know who Johann Lamont was. I have said on numerous occasions how do you educate the uneducated
Lord Reid should have been asked what last weeks Newark by-election Labour disaster means for Scotland and Scotland once again ruled by another Tory.gov that Scotland will not elect 2015.
That’s the kind of question a decent honourable journalist might ask but instead Lord Reid is pleasantly fluffed by Brewer’s droop at Pacific Quay because Lord Reid appeals to working class men in Scotland and so £300 a day House of Lords ligger for Life Reid can make us vote no.
Who’s the moron again?
Der FUHRER Alicsammin causes CANCER!!! And he can’t wait to let the Russians invade Helensburgh to appease modern-day HITLER President VLAD the Impaler PUTIN!!!
Too wee? Drivel.
Too poor? Palpable nonsense.
Too stupid? Wouldn’t dignify it with an answer.
Too fearful? Well… that remains to be seen.
To win we are going to have to use every outlet, every meeting and every doorstep over the next 100 days to counter a cynically concerted campaign by the BBC, most of the press, and the entire machinery of Government.
Off out now to deliver some Yes material. Cheers.
So we’re to be alternatively lovebombed or threatened by these Labour “big beasts” on their flying visits to Scotland over the next 100 days. I’d like each time one of them trots out the mantra about how we have “financial security” as part of the UK, they are asked how this is the case when Chancellor Gideon has the country up to £1.4 TRILLION in debt – and rising by £1 BILLION A WEEK in interest repayments?
Oh dear, we can’t risk this! Scottish universities are the only ones in the whole wide world currently doing research into beating cancer. And if Scotland become independent there will be nobody left to do it.
Do they seriously think anybody falls for this nonsense?
Cheer up people, World Cup starts Thursday, wall to wall England this and England that. I fortunately live in a non football household, my sympathies for those who do not. The thing is if England does well, and we will ALL be supporting them this time won’t we? How much is it worth to YES?
@ donald
ha ha ha ma weans luv peppa pig.
Peppa talks more sense than reid.
Lard Reid`s political hero is aparently james connelly ha ha another historical icon who fought british rule.
Anyway whit a day i had yesterday.
Wife gave me £60 and telt me to go out and spend it on somethin that makes her look sexy.
You should have seen her face when i came hame pissed.
jon esquierdo says: How do we educate the uneducated, I have no idea but what we need it to hope they do not get out to vote.
@ jon “I have said on numerous occasions how do you educate the uneducated”
You talk to them.
Story #1- 46% for indipendence
Not all drivel then 🙂
How Brewer should have introduced John Reid:
“So, Lord Reid, if Scotland votes Yes, what is the likelihood that you will retain your lordship status? Do you think the public in England, or your colleagues in the chambers for that matter, would be happy to pay your expenses for the rest of your natural life given that you would come from a “foreign” conutry? And does that colour your outlook on the referendum?”
I still believe that many people voting ‘No’ (at this point) as well as many Undecideds will finally engage in August.
As my wife says, there are still folk in her section that believe they don’t have enough information (and as we all know, that is just nonsense).
When the time comes, these folk are going to run to the very folk who know best; the ones who have been engaged for the last two years. What they will want is the 5 minute short version of just give me the basic facts so that I’ll understand. Tell me why you believe we should be independent?‘
…and I’ll give it to them. I will balance it with what the UK intend to do if it is a ‘No’ vote. I will point out what they are not being told.
At the end of the day, I think many of them will vote with the heart because simply …it is Scotland.
Morons and our money? UKOK national debt £1.3 trillion, one thousand three hundred billion pound debt run up by dudes like Lord Reid, Crash Gordon, Scotttish nazi hunter Flipper Darling etc
So who owns UKOK national debt then? The City of London, charging usury £52+billion per year and who destroyed our banks, our savings, our business, our national security? Same City of London bankers that cost half a trillion sucker tax payer/national debt to save. Its the biggest ponzi scheme they could ever hope to concoct and who aided and abetted the super rich spivs, Lord Reids New Labour Party.
Hope Balls/Milliband/Lamont are not wondering why they’re out of power for a teamGB generation at least. Still let’s keep the union jacks flying over the sweaties.
Sadly, and I mean sadly, I can’t see England doing well at all. A run to the semis would normally be unbearable up here, as we wait for the “news where you are” but this year it would surely mean many more Yes votes. Not that we should want folk to vote Yes for those petty reasons but we will take them any way we can get them. No, I predict England home before the postcards with two defeats to Italy and Uruguay and maybe a scraped win against Costa Rica. But it will still be a Yes regardless!
They think we’re…
NOrons.
@Marker Post
Come to think of it, Caroline Aherne as Mrs Merton would do a better job of interviewing these people.
The Labour party had an overwhelming majority to get shot of the Lords,but just trimmed the edges,now we know why-they all wanted to be in there. Working class heroes that they are. 🙁
Reid managed to air brush history today on the Politics Show
“…We fought alone, England,Wales and Scotland ”
What happened to all those countries once ruled from London who took part ?
If we accept Reid’s argument for staying united then Canada, America, India, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand etc,etc must all be waiting their return to the fold. The Lard forgot to consider countries can co-operate without accepting London Rule.
Helena Brown I am out almost everyday on the streets and delivering yes fliers. At times I cannot believe what I am hearing. At times I feel like dauding ma heid af a brick wall
It’s good to see John Reid managed to make it to a military commemoration service for once. He once preferred to go and watch a football game rather than attend a local Remembrance Sunday ceremony in his own constituency when he was its MP. Which is especially ironic given that MP John Reid was a member of the Labour Government which actually ordered British soldiers to go and make the ultimate sacrifice in Afghanistan and Iraq (based on his own lies and propaganda but that is a different matter entirely).
MP Reid misses Remembrance service but goes to Celtic match
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/mp-reid-misses-remembrance-service-2601377
ps
Reid actually made a pathetic attempt to excuse his behaviour by claiming he stopped his car beside the road, on the way to the match, for 2 minutes of silence and remembrance.
Jon, you said “The people who write on this site are well educated informed people. But the majority of the general public in Scotland could not tell you how many nuclear armed subs are based at Faslane They do not know that the NHS is being privatised in England.They do not know that one in four children in Scotland are born into poverty. They do not know the financial implications of more austerity cuts in the next parliament”
This site is being viewed by literally hundreds of thousands of ordinary people. We are not all well educated. Many will have been informed by this site, many more are being directed to this site by the many who got informed by this site. Word of mouth is one of the best forms of advertising. Also this site is visited by our opponents…this site is under attack by DDOS’s, because they know the information on here is lethal to their propaganda.
Many may well not have known about the intricacies of the points you raise, they come to this site and others where they self-inform.
The last point you raise is that a recent poll showed 40% of repondents didn’t know who Johann Lamont was. When they do find out who she is…that is to our advantage, as they too see the irony in so called well educated informed people acting like ignorant huffy spoilt weans not getting their own way.
I keep saying this, people are not stupid. We are going to win.
Lard Reid`s political hero is apparently James Connelly
An Irish republican born in Edinburgh.
The massively contradictory beliefs Unionists are able to hold simultaneously amazes.
@Seasick Dave at 12.04pm
@Papadox at 12.08pm
Both comments had me in stiches. This is another reason I’m on this site daily the humour is so clever.
K1 at 1.24pm
Great note and so inspirational. It’s people like you that will make the difference in a new Independent Scotland.
Thanks for that.
K1 I had to look up DDOS
Scotland is as rich and productive as Britain is, to 99 parts in 100; if you don’t believe me look it up.
So if all these dreadful things are going to happen to Scotland if it tries to go it alone, then the same things are going to happen to Britain.
Who are you going to trust to fight your corner when this happens, a Scottish Parliament or a Tory, possibly UKIP + Tory, Government at Westminster?
Entry for John Reid on SourceWatch –
John Reid
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/John_Reid
Baron Reid of Cardowan – AKA plain old John Reid is a absolute British Establishment Patsy.
@ K1 I have no doubt you are correct, but if Chomsky’s 80% of the population are content to be distracted by footie news, tits on page 3, some family tragedy and which underpants Becks is wearing right now, getting to them is hard work.
I have done door to door and the issue seems to be that they have felt no ownership and been disassociated from decisions in their part of Scotland for so long they can’t give a toss. However it seems clear that enthusing one or two on the street can snowball and this is what we must believe these next 100 days.
What is also clear is, assuming a YES, how important it will be to include their previously silent voice in planning iScotland – we cannot allow Holyrood to become a mini-Westminster.
K1, well said!
I believe now that it is time for ‘Yes’ to run its own offensive campaign based on what is going to happen if there is a ‘No’ vote.
More austerity; more Tories/Ukip; more cuts in the Barnet formula; more spending on projects outwith Scotland e.g HS rail and London infrastructure (take your pick); more foodbanks; more attacks on workers’ rights; cuts on education and possible forced privatisation of the Scottish NHS etc.
Even a neutering of the Scottish parliament ( ‘settled will’ and all that Labour pish equalling no powers) seems certain. We need to remind the non-committed out there about the benefits it has brought and the reality of what total London rule actually means.
Make the brainwashed and unenlightened start to think about what ‘No’ will actually do to their lives, apart from just saying ‘Naw’.
Time to get the gloves off, no more nicey nicey. Hit these lying bastards where they live: the BBC, the tabloids, engage the foreign media.Whatever it takes to get through to the ‘soft million’ voters.
They have to wake up now to the impending apocalypse now, not on the 19th of September!!
Are you listening SNP?
Jon, well done with your activities on the streets, more of that & as for the rest of us get the You, Yes Yet posters etc, Sunday Herald front pages on house windows, Yes Saltires flying,(where are they?) these things will normalise the debate for those who have not caught on to the importance of this decision. 101 days, Partyyyyy. 🙂
joe kane says:
8 June, 2014 at 1:41 pm
Entry for John Reid on SourceWatch –
John Reid
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/John_Reid
Joe, great link which just shows who Reid really is, a good writer could demolish him effortlessly. Not read everything, but will, maybe the REV could do something on him.
Lochside says:
Yes, you are right, totally agree with you.
Clootie
Did he really miss out “Ireland” ? Lots of Irish people, north and south did their bit. He’s so befuddled with his Celtic connections and being a UK war minister at the same time, but the money’s good and the ermine’s warm.
O/T but SKY TV belatedly taking an interest in the Independence debate. Showed a poll about the number of Scottish people who thought English politicians should butt out of the debate(49%) and the number(44%) who thought they shouldn’t. Tomorrow morning we’re promised a piece by James Matthews going round Scotland interviewing various people. Hope it’s not a Ponsonby trip where no one is for YES.
Marker Post said: “Do you think the public in England, or your colleagues in the chambers for that matter, would be happy to pay your expenses for the rest of your natural life given that you would come from a “foreign” country?”
That applies to almost anybody given an honour of any sort awarded under the UK banner, including election to bodies and institutions, and honorary positions.
If after a Yes vote all such honours were annulled, made invalid, it would register the English as the pettiest nation on the planet, while confirming the general perception they always regarded the UK as England.
PS: We are retain the Union of the Crowns – the Queen – hence all such honours are fixed. For English to call for their removal would surely piss off her Majesty.
1. Nato is not a nuclear alliance. It is a military alliance comprising 28 member states of whom only 6 have nuclear weapons. It also has a strategic partnership programme to reach out to other states who do not desire full membership. This recently was extended to Finland. Which has no nuclear weapons and buys most of its hardware off the peg. It is also crucial to remember that the UK sought and obtained in 2009, special dispensation to reduce its naval commitments to Nato. The last exercise it took part in was 2009 and the UK’s sole contribution to this was a single minesweeper.
2. Scientists will not drop what they are doing and shift to substandard facilities. The stink of stupidity from this one, leaves me reeling.
3. D-Day – any attempt to use all those men who died. Canadians, New Zealanders, Poles, Free French, Scots and Englishmen, to lay on a guilt trip on the people of Scotland, is crass in the extreme.
This is the very best argument they can make for the Union.
In the end, they have no arguments to make. There really isn’t any compelling reason for the union to continue.
@Lochside
An advertising campaign under the heading ‘Vote No and repent at leisure’, or such like, would certainly be able to embrace the multitude of Westminster sins you outline.
I have expressed the wish before to hear, in this campaign, the voices of more people who are not professional politicians. Politicians live in their own world, talk in their own language, and score points according to the rules of the political game. The whole business is dominated by the demands of modern media management.
The resulting media-fear means that politicians on the Yes side frequently seem to be pulling their punches. Open goals are missed; hard, emphatic speech is not used where it ought to be; and it’s like a breath of fresh air when someone who doesn’t have to be mindful of being ‘on-message’ comes along to tell it like it is.
“We can lift ourselves out of ignorance, we can find ourselves as creatures of excellence and intelligence and skill”.
Jonathan Livingston Seagull.
@Lochside
Completely agree. And I also cannot believe why the Yes Camp is not asking for neutral election observers from the EU. Surely the time has come for that?
That second bit about cancer reminded me of an interesting bit of graffiti I saw once.
It said:
“What if the cure for cancer is trapped in the mind of someone who can’t afford a university education?”
Makes you wonder. Could we have cured cancer long ago if we weren’t always holding ourselves back with bits of paper and an obsessive dependence on the gathering of currency and denying people the resources to pursue their dreams and ideas?
Independence is our chance to climb up out of the pit Westminster keeps us in and start chasing our dreams…
Better late than never! 😀
The old expression, “even half the lies they tell are no true” has never more come into its own.
On the plus side I am finding that even undecided are dismayed by this obvious nonsense.
James Morton
As far as I’m aware only three NATO members have nuclear weapons – UK, USA and France
Not aware of any others
The same old scare stories, keep coming from the no camp, its like riding the ghost train at the carnival, after the 10th time you know what to expect.
O/T.
This sounds promising, African’s for Independence.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/africans-in-scotland-join-yes-campaign.24373082
Cringeworthy quote from Patricia Ferguson, Scottish Labour’s sport spokeswoman, on the STV Andy Murray article.
“With the Commonwealth Games just a few weeks away, and the eyes of the world on Glasgow, let’s hope Alex Salmond sees sense and leaves his Saltire at home.”
I guess she is unaware that Scotland is actually represented in these games.
I think Patricia Ferguson intends to wave the US flag if a Scottish sports person wins a medal.
Unfortunately Lochside, nobody seems to have realised that we needed an independent broadcaster and newspaper BEFORE the debate started. Who anticipated the overwhelming bias of the state broadcaster and other msm in the independence debate? If R&D bodies are so worried about money vanishing after independence, maybe they should be investigating the bias in this campaign, and give us all something to get our teeth into.
Has anyone from the NO side ever lucidly explained what they think might be wrong with Scotland as an Independent country?
Apart for it not suiting some agenda of theirs, of course?
Baron Dr. john Reid privy councillor: will be having a private meeting with all his trusted and loyal friends this evening. Sorry it’s been cancelled nae phone box available o and gorgeous George is washing whits left o his hair. Sorry.
Phew, back from delivering and talking YES stuff in a very showery Perthshire. So happens I was working a street of approx. 70 houses, all fairly well-to-do – one UKOK car sticker I counted, but 5 YES stickers.
Got talking with a few folk, including one fellow who happened to be street parking his car full of young family as I walked up to his door. He met me as I walked back down, approaching me with hackles up a bit, a protecting-my- wife-and-kids stance (I thought I looked quite innocuous but was a bit drookit, I suppose). Explained I was working on behalf of the Yes campaign.
He clocked the £5000 headline from the latest Yes newspaper and compared this to BT’s £1400 “better off” figure. “All promising us we’ll be quids in if we only vote for them – same as they always do.” He had a point. I said for me it wasn’t about being materially richer but have a richer society, one where bombs and bankers’ bonuses were no longer the priority but childcare, education, social housing were. No guarantees, I said, but they’ll be much closer and much more accountable than they could ever be down in Westminster. The guy shrugged.
Then his wife spoke up. Her workmate is active in Yes and they’d had been talking about it. She herself was on Facebook and she’d followed links this colleague and others had posted (Wings and Bella were mentioned after my prompting) and she was now a definite Yes, she said. Hated being lied to, hated being talked down to, and thought this might be the biggest chance for change we’ll ever get.
Her husband’s eyes were like saucers. He plainly had no idea of her opinion. I offered out the paper with our local contact number and Facebook page. “I don’t do Facebook,” he said. “I do,” she said, took the material and marched the kids inside.
The guy lingered for a moment – saving face a bit, I think – asking me some stuff about pensions and businesses moving away and so on, but also seemed more receptive, promising to read the stuff and give it some thought. He had a copy of the Sunday Mail; I suggested he try the Sunday Herald sometime, get a different perspective.
I think it might have been the lovely Choann La Moan who said this unnecessary campaign was needlessly dividing families. She was wrong, of course, as she is about so much. This is a debate about values, about core beliefs and understanding it’s good to talk about these. It’s about generating confidence in people to say what they think, and understanding how respectful discussion is absolutely essential to a healthy society.
After 18th September – whichever way it goes – we have to hold on to that.
Dr Ew – you are lucky. I delivered the paper earlier this year and just finished doing another two runs and the most engagement I got was one guy saying “it’s not more independence rubbish, is it?”. I handed copies to a few folk but no response, positive or negative. Did not see one Yes car sticker or Yes windae but I didn’t want to look dodgy by looking in all the windows so it’s possible I missed one or two. This in a relatively well to do part of Hamilton. I have seen three Yes windaes in the town and this past week have seen five or six new Yes cars.
I have posted a number of academic studies here, which have all pointed to a direct causal relationship between the level of economic growth a country achieves, and the level of parliamentary activity within that nation. This is not a new trend, and is evident across Europe since the 12th century.
The scientific research is out there, but HMG Better Together would have you believe night is day. Or the world is flat.
It might have been clearer if I had said that, economic growth is dependent on the level of parliamentary activity within a nation.
IMHO: I think the BT crew and HMG thought this nonsense of a referendum would have been done and dusted by now, and we Scots would have been licking our wounds in the cringe room, with our tail between our legs.
They are very worried that it’s still all to play for and if anything the wind is in our sales and god is at our back.
I sometimes get a bit down and self doubting but the power, depth and sincerity of all the wingers and the web sites gives me the uplift I need and want.
MAKE NO MISTAKE I WILL FIGHT THIS CAUSE TO ITS CONCLUSION HOWEVER LONG IT TAKES FOR MY GRANDCHILDREN. THERE IS NO GOING BACK.
The way to win Lab voters is simply to point out the multi-millionaire career politicians in charge, and ask them just how right wing do you want for the next UK Gov.Going from Very, all the way to Extremely.
“Tomorrow morning we’re promised a piece by James Matthews”
This was part of a post earlier by seanair (i think)
I was skimming through the comments and maybe its fatigue or fever, but all i saw from that comment above was “jam” and “tomorrow” lol…
There has been a few people seemingly frustrated that the Yes campaign has not went on the offensive yet.
My message is hold steady, long way to go yet, and when the offensive starts in earnest No and BT will not have time to simply put out pash because it will be them on the back foot fire fighting the points on two fronts from Yes, the more public forceful debunking of the BT pash and trying to keep up with the mountain of positive issues for voting Yes.
I have a growing feeling also that Yes will call for independent election monitors at a strategic point in time also. ( if this is even possible at a later stage?)
This could have the effect of a “mass debunking” of all the BT negative scaremongering nonsense, just in time for it to stick in people’s minds.
Imagine BT being unable to simply tell lies and be negative, they better start thinking of positive stuff to say now or they will have nothing to say at all soon.
Oh wait…..!!
Timing is everything here, as i said earlier, keep the faith, the No strategy has been non stop lies and abuse of power yet they are nowhere as far ahead as they are trying to fool people into thinking.
I reckon they are losing or level at best, and Yes have hardly started their big push yet. The Yes activists have built strong foundations for the Yes leadership to stand on.
The No campaign is built on lies and snake venom. One will catch you out, the other will finish you off.
60% plus for Yes imo.
Back in from a very tiring session. k1 How do we educate the uneducated
@Harry
I lucky to be in lovely Birnam this afternoon, a small, friendly place where people were working in their gardens on an (intermittently) fine June afternoon, so a wee bit of chat wasn’t difficult. Apart from the interaction I described in my previous post, it was mostly superficial but not unproductive – I think if people see Yes as a friendly face that does no harm. This is John Swinney / Pete Wishart territory, fairly strong SNP-land.
Back in January/February I trekked around bits of East Kilbride – cold, miserable and a lot of entrenched Labour voters. Came away from some of those evenings pretty discouraged, but only from lack of interaction rather than negative reaction.
Things have changed since the winter. Yes visions are stimulating discussion, stirring conversations. Almost everyone I’ve spoken with through April/May has expressed irritation about to the NO propaganda but the same people usually have at least one fear NO have stoked. The thing is to get them to talk about it – Scotland won’t have an army! The oil will be done in 10 years! I hate Alecsammin!
When they express these fears, actually put them into words, it’s amazing how a brief conversation helps them see these things for what they are – and where they came from.
This summer is the time to press home our case. As the day approaches I find people more and more willing to talk. And the more that happens, the more folk fall off the fence as they lean towards Yes.
@geeo
Great words from seanair and youself. I love the positive message and encouragement. I agree the fightback in the media will begin when the time is right. However we have plenty to do before then.
Just talk to one person each day, you know that not many yet are discussing the referendum well if we start doing it we get an advantage over the NO’s. I’ve just started but am vowing to do at least one everyday. This will pay off.
If 1000 readers of Wings do this we will reach 100,000 people before the referendum. If 10,000 Wings readers do this we will reach 1,000,000.
Get started tomorrow with 100 days to go.
@Dr Ew
Singing from the same hymnsheet 🙂
Don’t know about anyone else, but I’ve spotted more Yes car stickers, badges on people, and posters in windows in the past fortnight than in the previous six months. Seriously. Something’s astir…
(That’s between Irvine, Kilwinning, Stevenston, Saltcoats, Ardrossan and Kilmarnock. UKOK stuff as rare as hens teeth.)
Ireland, Sweden, Finland, Switzerland, Austria all seem to survive nicely not being in NATO. Its time we stood up to these unionists and said frankly we dont care if we are in NATO. Empty threat.
We don’t need anything nuclear.
http://aanirfan.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/major-find-of-oil-on-scottish-west-coast.html
@ Ian Brotherhood, an you will see a lot more, we gave away
600 badges/+car/window stickers yesterday.Hows yous fixed
for a Wings stall in your area.
Roseanna Cunningham and Michael Russell are not doing much for the YES campaign, reportedly.
http://aangirfan.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/spies-in-politics-murders-brainwashing.html
I don’t know about Roseanna but both she and Mike Russell have very strenuous jobs and are in Parliament most of the week. Michael Russell has been doing hugely successful and very busy village hall meetings weekly around the huge Argyll and Bute constituency. Careless comments are unhelpful
Aangirfan – I’ve read the page your link refers to, and I’m at a loss as to the connection between Roseanna Cunningham, Mike Russell and the YES campaign that you allude to.
@ Dave mc Hill / T Jenny, be ALERT on disinformation.
Ronnie Anderson – it’s not so much that I found it to be disinformation, more that it was, in the words of the REv, argle, bargle, fargle wargle. 🙂
@TJenny
Or just pure shite! As one is apt to say on occasion.
@ T Jenny ah used tae talk like that when ah hud that Worzel
Gummage heid ( argle fargle )lol.
@ Thepnr is that no trollies tolly’s
Ronnie Anderson – is that where argle bargle etc comes from. Never seen Wurzel Gummage and thought it a Rev original.
@ T Jenny he hud a misspent youth,I on the other hand could’nt avoid Wurzel Gummage, no when you have kids that is.
Was that the scarecrow who used to be Dr Who?
Excellent piece in the Guardian on the campaign. Sevvy won’t be happy.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jun/08/scottish-independence-referendum-galvanises-debate
@ Paula Rose yes John Pertwee, hear ah better watch oot am
lible tae develop ma brain again.
So the Great Gordo claims that Scotland will be, “left out of the loop”, of research funding if the North Britain Scots dare to vote to take their own future into their own hands, does he?
Well I know quite a few of his former loyal voters in this constituency who will most certainly be leaving GB out of the ballot box loop next time round.
Ronnie
Spot on
I think we will, most likely, lose in September. But the dirty tricks from the British State become ever more obvious. Every year they become weaker. And every year we become stronger. So if we, ‘lose’ we take a week off. And start again
Juteman
I have to say Libby really has brought a bit of balance to the Guardian coverage of the independence debate. She isn’t a Yes to Severin’s No but she is even handed and asks pertinent questions. She is also happy to come below the line and discuss points and check things out.
Buck up boys and girls have you all converted your one-a-day DK to Yes?
HandandShrimp.
Her article is probably the most balanced piece on the campaign that I’ve read in any UK paper so far. We don’t want or need Yes bias, just balanced coverage. More power to her pen/keyboard.
@Derik Tulloch 9.28. Ah hope that comments no directed at me
because you certainly dont have the advantage of other people
on here that know me very well.
LOSEING NEVER ENTERS MA FUCKIN HEID, AH HIV A MENTAL CONDITION AM NO DAFT.
O/t, I’ve just worked out where they can park their nuclear submarines which will make it a strategic asset which cant be negotiated! “Las Malvinas son Argentinas” “The Falklands are Argentinian”.
@Derick Tulloch
Tut Tut Derick shame on you for having evil thoughts such as losing. We will win and YOU know it.
Mike Russell speaking in Largs tomorrow evening. Brisbane House Hotel.
@Lochside
“Completely agree. And I also cannot believe why the Yes Camp is not asking for neutral election observers from the EU. Surely the time has come for that?”
I do get really nervous with the possibility of the NO side using any and every means available to them to secure a No vote and that they will try and rig it some way. Neutral election observers would be crucial to peace of mind.
ronnie anderson
Would I be wrong in suggesting it would be more accurate to describe you condition a neurological? You still get to rant. 🙂
Jon, I think both Dr Ew and Thepnr answered your question immediately following your post.
It’s a good and pertinent question. For me it’s easier to use an example as a means of articulating my understanding of educating in the context of discussing the referendum. So think of Alex Salmond, he’s very relaxed and non combative when discussing Independence and it’s a genuine sense of open stance listening when any questions are asked.
He explains in unqualified terms what his approach is, everytime he is asked, he states honestly that it took him a while to understand that two negatives campaigns; the worst one wins, a negative and a positive campaign; the positive…Always…wins. There is no mystery is what he is stating. He doesn’t get ‘down’ when others have a different outlook, opinion, they are quite rightly expressing their view. That goes for any view, whether formed from ignorance, or twisted vested interests logic, it doesn’t matter. He doesn’t decry the ignorant. His approach was and is: I trust the people of Scotland to make this decision.
The emphais is on what you can do, not on what you can’t do…Always! If you focus on what the ‘problem’ is according to your opponent, they have ‘catched’ you in their ‘outlook’. You then are on the backfoot trying to solve their problem as they have presented it. If you consistently trust your own understanding of the issues and remain resolute you don’t have to engage in any one else’s negative narrative.
We only need 50% + 1. If you meet a closed mind, walk away, go for the undecided, they will decide the outcome, because we know that when someone has an open stance of not knowing, they are still interested, and when pointed to the information the trend is: don’t know to Yes.
That is what is happening, that is a fact. In other words you don’t have to educate anyone, you just have to remain positive and consistent in your own appraisal of what the issues are and genuinely talk with others form your heart.
Isn’t Alex educating everyone by this approach?
The ignorant and twisted vested interests will always be with us…we can start that education after we win!
@Cameron B, dont need tae caw it anything that ah hiv trouble spelling Heidbanger an a kin still rant lol.
Yerkitbreeks, you said: “What is also clear is, assuming a YES, how important it will be to include their previously silent voice in planning iScotland – we cannot allow Holyrood to become a mini-Westminster.”
Absolutely!
TheItalianJob, Tree of Liberty, thank you for your kind remarks. 🙂
Rebut by all means. Turn the tables on BBC and other journalists over loaded questions and bias reporting. Hold them to account on blanking or belittling stories that are pro-Yes / anti-BT. But do not lower ourselves to their level. It’s what they want and it will only turn off the apolitical, the apathetic and the agonising – all the ones we need to vote Yes.
What is the strategy for the coming 100 days? I don’t really believe the bidding war on financial benefits will be a clincher come September; people believe the side they want to believe or, indeed, treat both sides as so much noise they always hear at election time: “Vote for us and you’ll be quids in!”
I’ve said this before, but I’ll keep on hammering the point: We need a simple, principled, bullet-pointed summary of a draft constitution.
If we make it clear, reasonable and radical, we will have a potential trump card BT cannot outbid and would struggle to even to criticise. So I suggest:
– Assert the sovereignty of the people over Parliament
(As opposed to “The Crown in Parliament” as with Westminster – they’ll hate that being even raised).
– All public representatives in elected office (presently MSPs and councillors) must publish an annual audited report of his/her attendance, voting record, employees, expenses, other earned income / employment, sponsorship and donations. (Let constituents see what their elected reps are doing, and who for. Public notices announcing websties and library copies will ensure the facts & figures are maintained in perpetuity).
– Elected representatives will be subject to recalled election for significant breaches of rules or other criminal offences.
(Not for minor misdemeanours – they’re only bloody human, after all – but fiddle their expenses or take freebies from comanies and they find themselves in a by-election.)
– Political parties can only raise funds equivalent to double that which they raise in membership fees. These will be audited annually by OSCR (or similar). Falsification will be a criminal offence and result in party fines.
(Let’s compel parties to recruit, involve and listen to its party members – otherwise what are they for?)
– Constitutional education will be taught in schools from primary 7 onwards, and the age of majority will be 16.
(That’s for marriage, sex and voting… though not necesarily in that order.)
– Citizens of Scotland will be treated equally under the law, without discrimination as to gender, sexuality, age (after 16), rank or office. Companies and corporations will also be subject to all laws without exemption.
(In other words, nobody can waive through amnesties for ministers, ex-Prime Ministers, bankers or CEOs. Nor can we create a Guantanmo on St Kilda. We need transparent procedures and no secret trials.)
– Responsibility of our Parliament, people, laws and institutions to protect and PROMOTE freedom of expression.
(Encouraging free speech is healthy, and puts a responsiblity on the media, politicians, religious leaders and ALL of us to not to try to proscribe opinion just because we do not agree with it. What a game changer that would be.)
– Any mobilisation of Scottish military forces, resources or land must be approved by a properly convened session of Parliament – unless we are under attack. All military actions must comply with recognised international law.
(i.e. no more illegal / imperial / immoral wars – and no more being used as an airbase for bombers or a stopover for torture flights.)
– All citizens will have equal rights to primary and secondary education, health care and social care provision paid for from public funds.
– Scotland will at all times strive to attain the highest international standards of democracy, encouraging informed participation of its citizens at every level of adminstration and government.
(So we don’t rest on our laurels, and get genuine freedom of information.)
– The media will be free to criticise and hold to account elected representatives, public officials, businesses, public bodies, suspected criminals and powerful vested interests. Personal privacy should be respected unless there are serious grounds for concern over criminality, corruption or compromising of public life. Concentrations of media ownership will be subject to intervention by Parliament, whose responsibility it will be to promote diversity of interests and plurality of opinion.
(Leveson was mostly hot air. This is about defining the public interest, respecting the privacy of ordinary citizens and, crucially, breaking up dominations of media barons. That said, I acknowledge this might not be the best one to put front and centre, tactically speaking.)
Just some stuff to get the debating ball rolling, I hope. Not comprehensive, and not a wish list. Just a setting out of fundamental principles around which we might build a great new consensus.
Independence cannot solve everything. Policies – including most of the White Paper – are only clothes we can choose to wear in hope they suit the circumstance. A constitution – a written constitution – should be the embodiment of our values; the body of a nation no less.
With the best will in the world our future politicians, officials and electorate will be conned, compromised and corrupted – but a constitution will put them on notice that they cannot hide and that we can hold them to account.
If we work hard and invest wisely we may be economically prosperous but it will never be milk and honey. If we devolve democratic power, budgets and responsiblity to local levels, neighbourhood levels where possible, then we may gradually give everyone a real say in how their society works. That will foster better education, a less passive, more engaged population, so promote fairness and equality.
I’m writing this because I believe it, but equally I think this is sound tactics for the campaign. BT will tie themselves in knots. The media will scream blue murder. But they can’t outbid it. And it will shift the focus on to what this is really all about – not the SNP, not £1000 a year, not even nuclear weapons: This is about bringing democracy in our country.
@Dr Ew –
IMO, that deserves to be a post.
Have you any thoughts on the Calton Hill Declaration? Seems to cover a lot of your points.
In any event, many cheers.
Couldn’t resist. 🙂
Graveyard Rock – Tarantula Ghoul and Her Gravediggers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wj_lxFAVhM
Thanks Ian. Very much appreciated.
Yes, I have seen the Calton Hill Declaration and that might have been somewhere at the back of my mind along with apile of other things (Norwegian and South African constitutions, the Declaration of Arbroath obviously) but, really, this came pouring out because when I’m speaking to folk at doorsteps or or on stalls, I feel the thing that gets them thinking is sovereignty, accountability, rights. Most of all it’s an opportunity for us to take the debate onto our ground and raise the tone in a way BT can never match.
Anyway… knackered. Work tomorrow, indy choir practice in the evening. Never a dull moment!
The best way to keep it simple is simply to say “we can do better than that crowd”
Dr Ew
Respect.
Dr Ew,
A lot of good stuff in your post but could I add a couple more.Recently on holiday,flicking through a local paper I noticed applications to tender for Govt/state/hospital supplies/contracts. Imagine if a list of all those with vested interests had to be transparent and the names published in your local/national paper, lordy,we could end up with the public really being able to be involved in local decisions !
Also, if someone or board in a position such as Fred the shred was or equivalent position a sort of ‘do no harm’ clause.
Slightly O/T,I read in the Herald the other day, the furor about money being due from the Councils who want to withdraw from Cosla. No where in the article did it say, who would be paying for this ? There was no mention whether it will be paid by the council tax payers of Glasgow/Aberdeen etc or as it is all Labour Councils, the Councillors have another plan. Anyway, in an Independent Scotland could we maybe have streamed Council meetings so the public could see how these decisions are made?
@ronnie anderson
From memory I think Worzel Gummidge used to call electricity “electrickery” , or was that his description of ‘fearmongering’? To check this I nipped over to Wikipedia and was amused at some of the episode names which may be useful as possible headlines for the Rev. They include; ‘A Fishy Tale’, ‘Moving On’, ‘A Fair Old Pullover’, ‘The Return Of Dafthead’, ‘Ten Heads Are Better Than One’, ‘Dreams Of Avarish’ and the confusingly titled “Worzel The Brave”.
Keep up the good work guys another week another seven conversions hopefully.