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Spanish non-bombs

Posted on April 02, 2017 by

A terrible article in today’s Observer nevertheless helpfully provides the most utterly categorical refutation yet of the endlessly-repeated Unionist lie that Spain would veto an independent Scotland’s membership of the EU.

The piece ran under the blatantly untrue headline “Spain drops plan to impose veto if Scotland tries to join EU” – it has NEVER had such a plan – and went on to propagate a whole series of further falsehoods asserted without any basis by reporter Jennifer Rankin, but such a spectaculary direct and unambiguous quote bangs yet another nail into a coffin that only the very stupidest of the nation’s pundits are still trying to insist contains a living occupant.

So let’s collect everything in one handy place.

Spanish government ministers have in fact been explicitly stating for more than HALF A DECADE that they definitely WOULDN’T veto Scottish EU membership provided that Scotland achieved independence by legal means:

The country’s then-Foreign Minister, Jose Manuel Garcia-Margallo, was quoted giving a quite stupendously unequivocal statement to that effect:

“If in the UK both parties agree that this is consistent with their constitutional order, written or unwritten, Spain would have nothing to say, just that this does not affect us.

No one would object to a consented independence of Scotland.”

(In case anyone hadn’t been listening, he said it again in December 2013.)

In any sane world, with a remotely competent and/or honest media, that would have been the end of the matter. Yet bizarrely, as recently as two days ago the Deputy Political Editor of The Sun (English edition) was still blithely honking this:

That’s despite it being only three weeks since Esteban Pons, an MEP from Spain’s governing party, said this to the BBC:

INTERVIEWER: [So] there’s no sense that Spain would want to veto Scotland joining the EU or anything like that?

PONS: No, because if you are thinking about Catalonia, the Catalonian situation is very very very different to the Scottish situation.

That interview took place just another three weeks after two MEPs from the Spanish government’s EU committee had reiterated the position yet again to Buzzfeed News, repeating the comments made by Garcia-Magallo five years earlier:

“I have never read such comments from any Spanish political leader. If Scotland gets its independence, in a legal referendum in the United Kingdom, if that is legitimate then Scotland will claim independence and be accepted by the international community.

If that happens, then the discussion will be whether Scotland should or shouldn’t join the EU. In that case, Spain would have nothing to complain about at all.”

Despite the Guardian’s headline, Spain’s position demonstrably hasn’t changed since 2012: namely, it’ll treat Scotland exactly the same as all the other newly-independent countries whose EU accession Spain has approved in recent years, including Latvia, Croatia, Lithuania, Slovakia, Estonia, and Slovenia. That’s not just an assertion, but what the Spanish government has consistently and explicitly said in public.

So you’d have to be some sort of absolutely epic, throbbing tinywit to still –

Sigh.

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      Spanish non-bombs | speymouth

    300 to “Spanish non-bombs”

    1. HandandShrimp says:

      I think it is some sort of Lib Dem misconception. They appear to equate being a politician with being a liar.

    2. Richardinho says:

      It notable that the general reaction in England towards the Spanish Gibraltar veto has been combative, yet the response from the Yoonstream is to tell us to cower before the terrifying menace of the mythical Spanish Scottish veto.

      God, they make me want to puke sometimes.

    3. WellReadNed says:

      This guy gets more and more like Ralph Wiggum every day.

    4. Croompenstein says:

      It all just makes you wish the Armada had succeeded in 1588 🙂

    5. Donald MacKenzie says:

      “So you’d have to be some sort of epic, dribbling tinywit to still –”

      But we know there’s a lot of them about.

      Yep that article was full of nonsense about having to sign up to the Euro and about joining this amazing queue that exists somewhere (or not), but at least it got the key point at the top of the piece.

    6. Dorothy Devine says:

      yet again I ask , ‘Just what is a Wullie Rennie for?’

      Am empty vessel that is allowed to make an awful lot of thoughtless noise in the media – while being the fourth party at Holyrood and Westminster.

      Mind you UKIP is nowhere near those dizzy heights but gets truly monumental media attention.

    7. Brochan says:

      “for more than HALF A DECADE” sounds a bit MSM to me. Over five years would have done. ;o)

    8. Paul D says:

      The “Ministry of Truth” are in full swing today. Just heard Radio Scotland announcer stating that the Spanish Foreign had “suggested” they would not veto Scotland’s membership of the EU. There was no “suggest” about it, it was a categoric statement!

    9. Simon says:

      “epic, dribbling tinywit” not quite as good as “unhappy Chappie retailer” using the coffee from mouth to keyboard scale, but still good.

    10. galamcennalath says:

      The ‘Spanish veto on Scotland’ convincingly debunked again.

      Unionists lie, they will continue to lie, it is all they have left to defend their Union.

      “I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crises. The great point is to bring them the real facts.” – Abraham Lincoln, he would have approved of WoS, I’m sure.

    11. Hamish100 says:

      Willie Rennie– his timing is just perfect. He proves once again he is a plonker.

      It shows up the Sunday Mail and so called journalists.

      Rock –Man and Boy and co.

      Do you think this paper is ok to read? lol.

    12. call me dave says:

      The journalist pool of deception gets shallower and the facts are nearer the surface but still need a snorkel.

      Sunny at Leven beach got a WiFi signal in cafe.

      Mr Peffer too. 🙂

    13. Bob Mack says:

      “Rule Brittania, Brittania rules the waves,
      Gibraltar never never never shall be slaves”

      That is all I get on my various media interests today. Some fool actually wants to send a task force!!!

      Oh I feel their pain. Bitten on the bum by their own guard dog of choice. Willie Rennie I have concluded after years of tenure in office remains a buffoon. The butt of jokes and insults. Nobody could take him seriously.

      The UK is sinking with all hands on deck, mustered and ordered not to panic as they slip beneath the waves. Must keep the stiff upper lip and all that. Show the world we accept our fate with steadfastness and resolve. Oh do piss off.
      Find me a lifeboat and be quick about it.

    14. thingy says:

      Ah but… you’ll have to join the queue to be forced to join the Euro.

    15. donald anderson says:

      Where will they put the Gibraltar monkeys, Orkney and Shetland?

    16. McDuff says:

      We really need to raise some serious money and find a way to counter the relentless lies being spewed by the MSM the Rev can`t do it all on his own. I don`t know what format that would take, billboards, or saturation of newsletters.
      Either way with a possible two year period before an indy vote we must find a way to inform the greater public of Unionist lies and distortions.

    17. Ken500 says:

      There are reports in the Press, the Tories would go to war for Gibraltar. Having ruined the world economy getting the UK into massive debt. Bombing half the world to bits. Causing the worst crisis in the world economy and the worse migration crisis since 11WW. The psycho bastard Tories want to cause a 111WW. They are at it again. Throwing their weigh around the world.

      They never learn, Never has there been such nasty, greedy, warmongering, lazy criminals in the Unionist Parties at Westminster/ Holyrood. Now creating a mess like never before. All for their own greedy personal ambitions to line their pockets and waste £Trns of public money. Killing and maining millions of innocent people all around the world. The Tory Unionists are absolutely appalling. The EU. US and China and Russia will be fit for them. If they start with them. They are the most disgusting creatures on the planet. May is an intransigent, incompetent, arrogant, ignorant person. Along with the rest of the party.

    18. Hamish100 says:

      maybe Willie Rennie would like to correct his statement in light of the facts. Could WoS ask him?

    19. Jimbo says:

      Willie Rennie – just another Yoon voice in the long queue of Yoons desperate to insult the intelligence of Scotland’s people and run Scotland down.

    20. theMadMurph says:

      wee Willie isn’t the brightest though. Bless him!

    21. Breeks says:

      I ask myself with similar cyclical regularity why would Scotland need to rejoin the EU if we are already a member.

      If a man and wife share a joint membership at the golf course, but split up and divorce, isn’t it just as easy to renegotiate a single ticket membership and stay a member, rather than exit the club and re-apply as a non-member? If it’s the spouse who chooses to leave, against the express wishes of the other, then why should “the other” suffer as a result?

      Yes of course, there is a need for some quick footwork to tailor the membership to accommodate the new single membership, adjust the membership fee for one, sign on the dotted line with a sovereign signature, but this is essentially administrative housekeeping, which in fairness may or may not require approval of all members. There isn’t any swearing in or induction process required.

      If Scotland exercises her sovereign right to end the Union, and remain in Europe, then if Europe recognises our sovereignty as a country, before we are out the EU, then doesn’t it follow it will also recognise our sovereign will to remain as EU members? After all, what mechanism does it have to expel a sovereign Nation against its will?

      Just as the British Press do not read what Europe has been saying for months, aren’t we guilty of the same? The EU has offered Scotland a transitional status; that is our EU membership is ours if we want it pending the successful realisation of our sovereign independence and the requisite administrative negotiation of our revised terms of membership.

      I again cite the precedence of Germany, essentially adopting a “Communist” East Germany into her existing EU Member status. Did East Germany have to apply for membership? No. A solution was improvised. A similar solution will be improvised for Scotland.

    22. Macart says:

      Round of applause for wee Wull. Only he would opt for the position of rentaquote on stories that get unequivocally dismembered same day. ‘Frenchgate’ anyone?

      When you stop for a second to consider it, you realise that Mr Rennie isn’t even a useful idiot at this point.

    23. Swami Backverandah says:

      @HandandShrimp
      “I think it is some sort of Lib Dem misconception…”

      added to a total ignoramus media misconception re the Spanish Gov’s concerns re Catalonia.

      The terminally tin-eared thought they were saying Caledonia.

    24. joannie says:

      The yoons will probably push the claim that Belgium will veto your membership now. Someone should ask the Belgian foreign minister what his government’s position is.

    25. DerekM says:

      lol brilliant trousers fall down,trip over your shoelace face first into a custard pie gag from wee Wull.

      What a complete idiot got to win zoomer of the week award.

    26. Proud Cybernat says:

      The colonial media know it’s pish, of course they do. But it helps their agenda which is to obfuscate and cause confusion among voters. Confuse voters enough then they will opt for the safety of what they know. Except this time round it is change all round. There is no status quo. They have to now consider what vote would give them the least disruption in their lives. That is what we have to show them–that a YES vote (to remain in the EU) will present them with the least disruptive option.

      http://imgur.com/DUDhBFz

    27. davidb says:

      @ Donald Anderson

      In the House Of Lords of course. They would of course have to be Primates Of The C of E .

      I’ll get my coat

    28. Dr Jim says:

      Willie Rennie like Davidson and Dugdale would stand in the face of the shining light of GOD and still lie if they thought it would get them a vote

      Remember the demographic of Sunday Mail readers they think a computer is something that some of the kids have tae play oan fur games innat

      Most of them don’t even know when there’s an election on till their carers or Unionist rep comes round to fill in their postal vote for them (or Jo Swinson) whoever gets there first

      Lieboral Democrats love doing this, give them their due it’s how they get votes, they fill them in themselves

    29. gus1940 says:

      Does anybody out there believe that in 1713 the Spanish Government voluntarily agreed to cede possession of part of their country that part being one of the most strategically important locations in the whole world?

      I agree that it was the subject of a treaty but what pressure was being imposed on the Spanish Government by Perfidious Albion?

    30. Jim Morris says:

      Clever man from USA says not enough to call the lie, first we have to reveal the truth that the lie is trying to stop us from knowing. Once people accept the truth, then we can say did you see/hear the lie spoken by so and so.

    31. Fran says:

      Good old Wullie, never fails to disappoint

    32. Robert Kerr says:

      @gus1940.

      Gibraltar was a small part of he Treaty of Utrecht which ended the War of the Spanish Succession.

      Read all about it.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Utrecht.

      Be thankful that we have an European Union now and despair of Brexit!

    33. Clootie says:

      …we should just accept that Unionists lie ( few better than Willie Rennie…although stupidity may be a contributory factor).

      When a story is proven false such as the “Spain veto” they spin this as “…threat withdrawn” in order to avoid the propaganda used during the last Referendum (Scottish) being highlighted to the public for what it was….A Lie.

      Our nation is being asset stripped and every year it is held is a gain for London.

    34. OT how can the E.U. Say that Britain owes them money when the E.U. Books have never been open to public scrunety ???

    35. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Off-topic and about sport

      Listening to Saracens v Glasgow Warriors on Radio 5 Live – cannot get it on Radio Shortbread, who are in full Sellick mode.

      In the first ten minutes, Jerry Guscott has been fairer to Glasgow than has Ian Robertson, who is, of course an Edinburgh-born UKOK Watsonian.

    36. call me dave says:

      Michael Howard, Baron Howard of Lympne, CH, PC, QC
      ‘suggests’ Theresa May would go to war to protect Gibraltar.

      Aye right! He makes even Rennie look relevant. 🙂 🙂

      https://archive.is/LLkxb

      How many Myths are left before some doubters see the light.

      Ms Sturgeon off to California to sow some seeds and raise Scotland’s profile but Aunties friends at home dis the idea over some tea and shortbread as they blether in the Nations earhole.

      Council elections next… step by step.

    37. admiral says:

      joannie says:
      2 April, 2017 at 12:40 pm
      The yoons will probably push the claim that Belgium will veto your membership now. Someone should ask the Belgian foreign minister what his government’s position is.

      Maybe they’ll ask former Belgian PM Mr Verhofstatd? LOL 🙂

    38. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Macart @ 12:30:

      Mr Rennie isn’t even a useful idiot at this point.

      Well said!

      While Unionists like him are desperately trying to stir up apathy, it’s becoming ever more counter-productive. Just like in the last few weeks of indyref1. And we still have some two years to go till the next!

      The Unionists blew everything last time thinking that they only needed to win once. Whereas it’s actually us who only need to win once. Now all their lies have been exposed, they have become the stuff of jokes. The more they try them, the less they are believed about anything.

      We should actually be grateful for useless idiots like Rennie and his wee band of LieDems.

    39. Robert Graham says:

      blair paterson -the EU books have never been audited – yep probably in the same way as Scotlands haven’t either , Westminster only release enough information to make the GERS figures look or seem believable it’s not what they release it’s the whole mountain of figures that support independence , this courtesy of Ian Langs little political Gem , this set in stone statement of Scottish Accounts has been used since its inception as a stick to beat us.

    40. Free Scotland says:

      When ah wiz a wean, Rennies wur fur kyoorin heid-aches. No oany mair, it wid seem.

    41. TheStrach says:

      Completely agree that we need to set out the consequences of remaining a part of Brexit Britain. The short list Proud Cybernat linked to is a good start.

      I’m sure a lot could be done to target specific consequences to target groups such as women and OAPs and explain how things could be much better if we had control of our own economy and remained in the EU.

      Last time it seemed we were always on the defensive and reacted to what was being thrown at us. This time we should be in a much stronger position and more able to set the agenda.

      As Brexit continues to unravel (one week in and some in the UK are already talking about going to war with Spain) it should become much clearer that it is going to be a disaster for our economy and society.

    42. starlaw says:

      Wiz Rennies no fur sare bellies .. this wan is mair o a pain in the erse…

    43. Marcia says:

      “Where will they put the Gibraltar monkeys, Orkney and Shetland?”

      In Willie Rennie’s home. They should feel comfortable there.

    44. Capella says:

      What about a special Wings Bingo Card for NewIndyref bingo? To be played each time there’s a Daily Politics, Vox Pop, “Debate” with 3 Unionists and 1 or 0 Independents, talking head “expert” “prof”, think tank officianado, etc etc. I seem to recall we had one for 2014?

      The Spanish Veto – tick
      The back of the EU queue – tick
      The £15b black hole – tick
      The drop in oil price – tick
      Fiscal transfers from England – tick
      What currency will you use – tick
      No Navy, Army, Nukes – tick
      No ships on the Clyde – tick
      Out of NATO – tick
      Putin will invade – tick
      Martians will invade – tick
      The Banks, Supermarkets, Entrepreneurs will all leave – tick
      You just hate the English – tick
      No Dr Who, Bake Off or Strictly – tick

      Have I missed anything?

    45. Ken500 says:

      The US/UK owe the EU/European countries €Trns for the mess they have made in Europe by illegally bombing the Middle East to bits for years. Killing and maining millions of innocent people. Causing the worse migration crisis since 11WW. US/UK owe countries in the Middle East £Billions for the reconstruct of the damage they have caused and the assets they have misappropriated.

      US/UK etc have also been illegally sanctioning North Korea and starving the people there for fifty years. Causing trouble in that region The Chinese help them out to stop them starving.

      Is there anywhere UK and the previous US regime does not case trouble in the world? Westminster disgusting, appalling unionist parasites. Absolutely repulsive behaviour. Causing the biggest migration crisis in the world. Then running away. Dirty cowards. Trying to threaten everyone else. They will get their comeuppance but innocent, vulnerable people will be killed and maim. Most of the Westminster unionistscriminals should be in jail.

      The US had taken 58,000 well heeled Iraqi refugees. In a US population of 320Million. The UK has taken 10,000 Iraqi refugees. A population of 62.5Million. The Tories criminals have refused to take 30,000 children who need protection, They are just appalling, heartless hypocrites. Sanctioning and starving the vulnerable to death. Without any empathy or humanity at all.

    46. galamcennalath says:

      I hope, believe even, that the EU will make their collective position clear and unequivocal with regards to Gibraltar, Northern Ireland, and Scotland before too long.

    47. mogabee says:

      Didn’t some journalist recently say that if they wanted a quote from a politician they called the LibDems because a call back was pretty much guaranteed in a short time…

      There lies the problem.

      The LibDems can lie so quickly now.:) 🙂 🙂

    48. Brian Powell says:

      The money that the UK will be required to pay to the EU is for those commitments already given, so the amounts are know.

    49. cctxt says:

      Much of this brexit shite is really all about the EU requiring more and more transparency from financial sectors which puts the regulatory cats among the corrupt tory troughers.

      https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2017/04/gibraltar-tax-haven-not-nation/

    50. Dr Jim says:

      Does this mean if Scotland enters the EU quickly that Scotland gets a veto in the Gibralter UK row, also given that Scotland owns 8% of Gibralter what’s in it for us, and if the UK decides to distract from their incompetency by shouting about wars with folk, if Scotland is Independent who’s side do we go on or do we allow them to use our 8% of the armed forces or ask for our money back

      All this is comedic conjecture of course but could we end up at war with the English
      It’s getting hilariouser and hilariouser and Maaad!

      I want my 8% of the Malvinas I might decide to finish my retirement down there, raise a sheep or two
      Mrs May and chums should hold their hands up now before it gets sillier than it already is

      BTW Nicola Sturgeon planned all of this with Alex Salmond and the EU because of their hatred of the English it’ll be in the Daily Mail soon

      Marvel will do a movie, Scarlett Johansson to play the FM Oooh! That guy that did Shrek for Alex part, Boris Johnson to play himself, Rev stu for Iron man, me bags Thor for I am mighty

      Politics is great eh, Brilliant!

    51. BJ says:

      Michael Howard “Theresa May will go to war over Gibraltar”

      If he means with bombs and tanks and stuff then I’m not going but I know someone who loves Riding tanks.

    52. galamcennalath says:

      If anyone across Europe had doubts left about the insanity of the Tories, they will now know for certain that they are absolute raving loonies!

      http://www.euronews.com/2017/04/02/uk-politician-compares-gibraltar-issue-to-falklands-war

      “Members of the UK’s ruling Conservative Party have warned Spain that the dispute over Gibraltar could end in war.”

    53. Breeks says:

      I think Europe is just fishing with Gibraltar.

      I don’t know what prospects of success Europe gives these Brexit negotiations, but personally, I hope Nicola keeps hold on the emergency parachute in the event the Brexit negotiations collapse and end abruptly, well in advance of 18 months.

      That’s £50billion on your Bar tab Britain, to be settled before we begin, oh, and if you want a trade deal, you’re gonna have to resolve Gibraltar with the Spanish. And if you start talking to anybody else about Trade Deals, then the talks are over.

      We haven’t even got to the Four Freedoms yet.

      No deal is better than a bad deal eh Theresa? Even a good deal would knock Britain on its arse, and rest assured, it is not going to be a good deal.

    54. Marcia says:

      Dr Jim

      Should it not be 25% rather than 8% as when the Union happened in 1707 we were 25% of the GB population then and there would not be that much changed between 1707 and 1713 when the Treaty of Utrecht was signed?

    55. clipper says:

      Sorry o/t this is about the LA elections but I need someone to help me out with this.

      On my Poll card it says that in my ward (Ward 16 Canal Glasgow) there are 4 councillors to be elected, but here on the actual Canal page it has 11 listed.

      https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=37312&p=0

      2 SNP and 1 Green so that’s the first three in that order I’ll vote for, but what about the rest? It’s all blue/red tories and “independents.”

      I’d normally be inclined to completely ignore them but I read on here somewhere quite recently that if you leave some out then that can actually end up increasing their chances of getting in. Could someone take a look at the page and advise?

      btw never voted in a LA election before, hardly even been aware they’ve been on. Fairly safe to assume turnout will be at least somewhat higher than usual this time. I think whoever’s best at getting their vote out will come out on top, as far as it’s possible to do so in these elections.

    56. Luigi says:

      Sigh indeed. But are we surprised? Nope, didn’t think so. 🙂 We are fast approaching the end game now, and the BritNats are becoming increasingly desperate. It’s going to get a lot worse. Expect record levels of unsourced, unverified information to be generated by the MSM during the next two years.

      These are the days of Fake News, after all.

      Sigh indeed.

    57. Stoker says:

      WILLIE RENNIE IS A LIAR, FACT!

      We know you read WOS, Willie, so there you have it. If you disagree just try and sue us. We know that you know that we are correct in our assertions and that you are a failed rejected liar.

      Our advice to you Willie is the same as always – Away and play tig with the traffic and leave the politics to the grown ups you sad demented lying creature.

    58. Dr Jim says:

      @Marcia

      I wasn’t going for total factual stuff there Marcia but if you say so I’ll get my Thor hammer and back you up

      Who are you going to be in the movie? I reckon we all deserve a part

    59. Dan Huil says:

      English/British nationalism results in Britnats desperately wanting another Falklands War-type-stooshie, this time over Gibraltar. May is desperate to do a Thatcher. Westminster continues to make enemies.

      The Scottish government is rightly developing closer ties with the rest of Europe.

    60. Marcia says:

      Clipper

      What is listed are the 11 candidates for the 4 seats. I would check the candidates biographies and then choose to rank the candidates. I would put the Labour Tory and LD at the end of the list and put the Independents ahead of them providing they were not fruitcakes.

    61. heedtracker says:

      Five years time, everything is going to look very different in northern Europe for Scots especially. We’re either Scottish EU citizens or the other option doesn’t bare thinking about.

      Carbuncle was on the Ligger Neil vote Tory explaining FibDem’s are “back in business.” Ligger told Carbuncle that FibDem’s are expected to do “pretty well in the elections.”

    62. clipper says:

      Marcia couldn’t I just ignore the rest after I’ve voted SNP 1, SNP2 and Green3? Or is it the case that by doing so I’m increasing their chances? (the unionists I mean)

    63. Stoker says:

      Clipper (2:38 pm),

      Try and do a bit of research into the 2 “Independent” candidates to see if they have any former party associations. I’ll also see what i can find if you give me their full names.

      Secondly, i know exactly how you feel, i’ve NEVER voted for a Unionist at any time in my life, not even tactically and i’m really struggling to bring myself around to doing it. I don’t know if i can to be perfectly honest.

      Thirdly, who is the traditionally successful party in your ward?

    64. clipper says:

      Sorry don’t want to interrupt thread, just looking for quick but comprehensive answer.

    65. Mike says:

      If the media are willing to publish it then you will find a politician willing to say it.

      That’s the way it works. Don’t go looking to the media to give you news they don’t do that anymore and haven’t for some while now.

      What they sell is popular fiction as long as you understand that you wont be disappointed.

    66. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Just to give you an additional flavour of the complete uselessness of Wee Willie’s wee band of LieDems, here is a brief extract from last Tuesday’s indy debate which illustrates far better their calibre than any clip shown by the BBC:

      Alex Cole-Hamilton (LD):

      The decision to withdraw from Europe broke my heart, but as an internationalist, my response could never be to up sticks from the one union of nations that I have left to me. Instead, I choose to stay to resist Brexit and to fight every election thereafter on a platform of re-entry to the European Union.

      There is no comfort for ardent Europeans in the SNP’s current vacillation.

      Tom Arthur (SNP), intervening:

      The Liberal Democrats have been fighting on a platform of federalism for more than a century and have yet to deliver it. Will it be a century before they can deliver re-entry to the EU?

      Alex Cole-Hamilton, continuing:

      That is my party’s policy. I have been fighting for lost causes all my life, but I will achieve that one.

      [Interruption.]

      “Interruption” in this case being everyone laughing their socks off.

    67. Mike says:

      It doesn’t matter if Willie Rennie or any other twat chooses to lie what matters is the fact that there is always a bigger twat available and willing to publish them.

    68. Bob Mack says:

      @Clipper,

      We covered this on a previous thread. Fill out all spaces, and do not just SNP 1 and. List unionist candidates as very last preferences.

    69. jfngw says:

      Typical bullshit from the Tories, I don’t believe Spain has threatened to invade Gibraltar but to veto any EU deal unless there is some agreement over its future.

      This is going well first a threat not to co-operate on terrorism, now a task force. They look well and truly in panic mode, this WM government is a shambles.

      It is beyond understanding why support for self determination is less than 90%. It’s hard to fathom people with such a low regard for themselves that they would rather have a bunch of incompetents govern them.

    70. Thepnr says:

      The usual crap is all so depressing but hear this. My wife is just an everyday housewife type of person. Votes SNP and Yes but absolutely no interest in politics other than making her vote.

      She is Mrs Mainstream and always doubtful about Independence through fear promoted by the media in other words.

      She mainly gets her view from facebook for example rather than me, anyway because of work I’m away and she sent me a text in response to a question I asked she said:

      “I think there is a bit of a change in social media. Much much more positive for indy than negative. Only noticed in the last few days.”

      I responded “That’s good news, thanks for telling me.

      She said “Maybe it’s just me but it’s quite noticeable I think”

      Make your own minds up but for me this is great to hear, believe me my wife has always been extremely doubtful. She’s of the “we cannae win” variety, not her fault it’s in her nature to be cautious. But now she tells me things appear to be changing then I’m paying attention!

      We’re nowhere near winning yet, we might not even be level but let’s do the best we can do and get stuck in there with the head down to make sure we do win.

      This for many of us will be the last opportunity ever of seeing an Independent Scotland. I will do everything I can to make that a reality I hope you will too.

      There will be no more chances in my lifetime. The time is NOW.

    71. Artyhetty says:

      Absolute freaking disgrace that these yoons can get away with outright lies, which some people really will take a gospel. These yoons are paid, very generously as well, from the public purse, it makes me sick. They are the lowest form of life for lying to the electorate.

      Heedtracker@3.02

      Maybe the loud, deafening, blinding, publicly funded state propaganda machine have been looking into their crystal ball again. Gowd knows it seems to be magicked oot the cupboard when any election is in the pipeline.

    72. Proud Cybernat says:

      @Clipper

      Here are a couple of good articles from James Kelly (scotgoespop) on why we should use our lower preference votes in the local elections:

      http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2017/03/for-example-of-why-pro-independence.html

      http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2017/03/a-bit-more-on-value-of-using-all-or.html

    73. heedtracker says:

      If you have a minute, BBC r4 lunchtime news today had two future UK prophesy things, from a pair of I think Lab and Con misery guts.

      Lab dude’s Brexit UK’s a dystopia but the tory is upbeat. He kicks off with 2020, Baroness Sturgeon of Glasgow South Side loses her independence referendum, 55/45, after that its not exactly rule Britannia Empire 2, but as good as. Toryboy says EU collapses but not completely, countries like Ireland and Greece bomb out like UK but Benelux countries stick it out and together and do prosper too.

      Cant believe these guys get paid hard cash BBC money for their crystal ball stuff but cheery times, in merry olde Brexiteerland.

    74. schrodingers cat says:

      clipper

      billy mcallister was snp but quit party
      http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14448372.Glasgow_SNP_councillor_quits__Stalinist__party/

      Angela McCormick the TUSC candidate is a YES supporter

      MIRZA, Amjad supports independence

      slab are running as glasgow labour in your ward, but i would put all of these 3 before any of the unionists

    75. Auld Rock says:

      Hi Dorothy Devine, The Fib/Dems are actually the fifth party at Holyrood, the Greens are fourth.

      Auld Rock

    76. Capella says:

      @ Proud Cybernat – snap! Sorry about duplicate link – was supposed to be the “for example” link but you have it covered anyway. Clipper should be an expert after today.

    77. Artyhetty says:

      re;jfngw@3.18

      I was just thinking that other day, 90%. Anyone of sane mind could be excused for wondering why anyone in their right mind would vote for a dysfunctional, bullying, destructive, so called union.
      I recently heard a no voting acquaintance, say that ‘brexit might not happen, maybe there will be another referendum’. Intelligent person, but sorely misled by the Graun, and such pretendy lefty rags.

      They are in for a huge shock when brexit really kicks in, as are many pro EU, anti Scottish independence folk.

    78. crazycat says:

      @ Clipper at 2.38

      I’ve had a look at your link and hope this will help:

      There are 11 candidates for 4 seats.
      You can rank as many or as few of those 11 as you wish.

      2 SNP, 1 Green should as you say be your starting point.
      You may get a leaflet from the SNP asking you to put their candidates in a particular order (to maximize the chances that both get elected, it helps if some voters rank them Gow1 – McLaren2 and others do the reverse). If they don’t send you such a leaflet, try to ask them which order to put them in.

      You can then stop if you want. But if you do rank other candidates, that cannot harm your higher preferences, because your lower preferences will not be looked at until those you’ve ranked higher have either been elected or eliminated (and thus not needing help, or beyond help).

      I would be inclined to put Angela McCormick (STUSC) 4th; I’ve not been able to establish her position on independence, but since these are council elections and we should also be considering making GCC (or rather you should; I no longer live in Glasgow) better overall, her other credentials are pretty good (works for refugees, etc.).

      You might want to read this: https://archive.is/MJ63P
      before deciding whether to vote for Billy McAllister – if it’s the same guy.

      There are umpteen people called Amjad Mirza, buit if it’s this one – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amjad_Ayub_Mirza
      he’s quite interesting and might be worth putting 6th.

      It probably doesn’t matter what order you put the last 3 in; McCormick possibly has the best chance.

      Sorry this is so long – it’s hard to answer succinctly. If you stop at 3, you are letting other people decide who wins the last seat, and possibly the last 2 if the Greens don’t have enough support. So worth using at least one more vote (in my opinion; I really don’t want to tell you what to do) if you can bear to.

    79. Graeme says:

      @Thepnr

      You just described my missus to a tee she’s also an SNP supporter but cautious about independence.

      Shortly after the EU ref she told me her facebook page was inundated with people saying they’ll vote NO in an indyref, I was so pissed off I posted on here that if we vote no again I’ll never admit to being a Scotsman ever and I still stand by that.

      I’ll have to ask her what it’s like now

    80. What an idiot this wee man continues to be. He sits there with his wee clan, Rumble, Bumble, Stumble and Grumble, getting money for nothing, belittling our country, lying through his teeth, and enemy of the People of Scotland.
      I shall boycott the products of any company subscribing to the Record/Mail.
      It is a disgusting wee Tory Unionist propaganda rag now.
      No more Mr Nice Guy. Rennie you are a weasel, a liar, and a disgrace to your country.

    81. crazycat says:

      @ Clipper

      I knew that while I was writing that, others would have responded.

      Good to see that Schrodinger’s Cat has more info on the independents and Angela. I suspected she was Yes, having heard her speak at rallies, I’m fairly sure, but wasn’t able to find confirmation when I searched.

    82. Stoker says:

      Clipper,

      Here you go, you don’t need to click on direct links to the BUM rag Herald to get the info you need.

      These could be your “Independents”….

      This guy supports Scottish independence
      https://twitter.com/amjadayubmirza1?lang=en

      Another independence supporter (don’t think he’s with SNP?)
      http://glasgowunihumanrights.blogspot.co.uk/2010/03/snp-candidate-billy-mcallister-who-took.html

      There are a few real dodgy Mirza’s in Glasgow so it’s important you get his/her full name.

      There is also one or two dodgy McAllister’s with connections to the Brit establishment.

    83. Tinto Chiel says:

      Capella at 1.49: one for your bingo list which I overheard last week in a train conversation, “Oor whisky’s runnin’ oot.”

      Really…

      Of course, maybe George Foulkes is back on the sauce again.

    84. schrodingers cat says:

      recap for ward 16 Canal

      1. Allan Gow SNP
      2. Jacqueline McLaren SNP
      *check with local snp which order they want you to vote in clipper
      3. Andrew Smith, greens
      4. Angela McCormick TUSC
      5. Mirza, Amjad SPP
      6. Billy mcallister independent

      i dont know these candidates very well, my only criteria was if they supported independence.

    85. Smallaxe says:

      Thepnr says:

      “This for many of us will be the last opportunity ever of seeing an Independent Scotland. I will do everything I can to make that a reality I hope you will too.

      There will be no more chances in my lifetime. The time is NOW.”

      I know that you won’t mind me saying, my Friend, that you also speak for me.

      Peace Always

    86. Thomas Valentine says:

      The only mystery about this is why Willie Rennie still gets interviewed. A total nobody.
      The Spanish veto nonsense will still be repeated just to get the NO votes of the few who just want to believe it. For the Unionist every vote counts and so it should be for the YES side. Independence supporters need to scrape the bottom of the barrel just as hard as the Unionists.
      We also need to start calling these “Smith” types on the BBC liars to their face. They can bluster but they can’t demand an apology when they are so barefaced.

    87. galamcennalath says:

      YouGov. Fear Brexit UK? You should!

      Leave voters said …
      53% want the death penalty
      48% want goods in pounds and ounces
      42% want corporal punishment brought back in Schools

      ( Remain voters answered 20, 16, 14% )

      Next it will be little red driving licences (I still have mine somewhere), unpasteurised milk, fish&chips straight in the newspaper, brightly dyed sausages containing heaven knows what …. and TV stopping at 11pm with GSTQ.

    88. clipper says:

      Thanks for all responses, I’ll look into all that info and decide soon and post back sometime on a more relevant thread as there undoubtedly will be one at some time or other before the elex.

      Stoker, not sure what you mean about clicking on herald links, that page I linked to is nothing to do with them it’s some LA thing. Like you and no doubt many others I’d never click on a direct unarchived link to a propaganda site if I could avoid it.

    89. Orri says:

      @clipper

      The way STV works in the council elections is you divide the number of first preferences cast by number of seats to get a quota.

      1) Anyone who gets above that is elected.

      2) Once they are elected you distribute the amount of votes they beat that by to the next preferences, if any.

      3) If after you’ve done that you have more candidates than seats you eliminate the one with the lowest number of votes and go back to step 1.

      The thing to bear in mind is that when votes transfer due to an election every single ballot they had is transferred. If a candidate had 125% of the votes needed for a seat then 4/5ths of each will go to them and the remaining 1/5th go to the next preferences. In theory that can happen multiple times in a single election.

      The problem you’ll face in this election is that the Conservatives are going to go big guns on the Unionist part of their name and persuade people that they should put them as a lower preference as that’d be better than the SNP. There’s no need to assume a given independent is a secret Tory. All you have to know is that if the vote you give a candidate helps push them over the threshold then the knock on effect will be dependent on how everyone’s next preferences are arranged. If they get their message across then there’s every possibility that the balance of the transfers from any independent candidate might be weighed more to the Conservatives than any other party.

      An example,

      Say it’s 100 votes for a seat. After elimination the final 2 seats were going to be A

    90. xaracen says:

      Capella, you missed the forced to join the euro – tick
      ;-D

    91. manandboy says:

      Delighted to know that Robert is OK and back online and on Wings.

      This link is to an article in the Guardian on the subject of online big money manipulation of elections. This is very scary stuff re ScotRef. The Electoral Commission are as yet impotent. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/01/dark-money-threat-to-uk-elections-integrity

    92. Dorothy Devine says:

      Auld Rock , so they are – I just forgot to count the top party! Started at second and proceeded from there!

      Fifth eh? Even better!

      Is it possible with our convoluted voting system to make them vanish? Pfft! as someone once said!

    93. Orri says:

      A bit of premature exposition there.

      Ok so without transfers suppose we had a final contest for the last two seats where 100 would clinch deal of A 98 B 97 C 96.

      If B is the independent the a transfer of just 3 more gets them the seat. Any more and the final seat depends on C getting fewer than 2 votes than A if a transfer is made.

    94. Stoker says:

      Clipper,

      I was referring to SC’ direct link at 3:26pm.
      __________

      If it was my choice i’d go:

      1 – SNP
      2 – SNP
      3 – Green
      4 – Billy McAllister
      5 – Amjad Ayub Mirza
      6 – Angela McCormick (STUSC)

      The remainder comes down to what colour of Tory, if you want to go that far.

    95. Stoker says:

      To all newbies lurking,

      Try and avoid aiding and abetting the Unionist cause by clicking on the direct link at 3:54pm. Clicking on that link helps to finance their fear, smear and lying campaigns against us.

    96. Polscot says:

      Capella’s bingo list*

      1. Well ‘ard border with armed guards, watch towers and huge queues. – tick
      2. All Scots will be furriners to their friends and families who won the war in 1966. – tick
      3. Exports will tank as England buys loads of stuff from us and no one else buys anything. – tick
      4. Pensions will be at risk. – tick

      *Some of these will not apply to Northern Ireland.

    97. crazycat says:

      @ Stoker

      The Herald link to which you refer appears in my post at 3.29 archived.

      Here it is again:
      https://archive.is/MJ63P

    98. Wulls says:

      Ah….,,wee willie wanky.
      A stain on the football sock of his father.
      It utterly beggars belief that he still pedals shyte like this……..As has already been stated , on the same day the issue has been comprehensively debunked.
      That takes a special kind of stupid.
      So…….we have a party with no MPs (UKIP) getting big time media exposure. A party that has 1 MP, a lying bastard at that, a collapsed voteshare, and a leader with his head in the clouds ( LibDems) and still getting media exposure.
      So there’s the answer.
      Fuck the party into oblivion.
      That way you get column inches 🙂

    99. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Clipper @ 14.38,

      I tend to agree with much of what other respondents have said, except that you don’t have to fill absolutely every position; you could well afford to leave both “Glasgow Labour” people out entirely and you won’t upset anything (except them, that is!).

      This ward is unlike many other “4-seaters” in Glasgow this time, where SLab are only fielding 1 candidate instead of the usual 2, on the grounds that they no longer have have the support to sustain that many. (Which says a lot about where they themselves feel they are now. Over the whole of Glasgow, SLab are fielding 43 candidates whereas the SNP are fielding a very savvy 56.) SLab must still fancy their chances somewhat in Canal, then, but that may be a miscalculation.

      You may like to note that in 2012, there was a straight win for one of SNP (Billy McAllister, who seems to be something of a loose cannon – not necessarily a bad thing in that ward! – and resigned from the SNP since.) and one of SLab (not re-standing), with SLab taking the 3rd place, likely on transfers from the 1st. So a lot of SLab votes then. There was a very close contest down to the 11th round between SNP and Green, with Green steadily accumulating more transfers from the various dropouts than the SNP.

      Now, all faces are different except McAllister (now independent but who may possibly still attract a personal vote and draw votes away from the “official” SNP two, so give him a ranking but not too high) and McCormick (who dropped out third last time just ahead of the LibDem with somewhat over 100 votes each, so neither of those will likely go anywhere next time in your ward.)

      Mirza appears to have been associated with the “Scottish Peoples’ Party”, which was pro-indy, so worth a decent placing.

      McCormick and LieDem are likely also safe to rate, and maybe even the Tory-“Unionist” =cough, splutter= in this ward, though NB: not necessary elsewhere in Glasgow.

      Hope any of that helps.

    100. schrodingers cat says:

      yoon poll 🙁

      POLL: Now that Britain is to once again be a SOVEREIGN NATION, which historic enemy should we start a war with first?

      spain presently out in front of france………….

      how did we lose to these numbnuts in 2014?

    101. jfngw says:

      @smallaxe & thepnr

      I think there is a few of us here who realise this is the probably the last chance in our lifetimes. In fact I thought the 2014 was probably it but did not allow for the machinations of the Tories to deliver another chance. The thought of another no is beyond depressing.

    102. Robert Graham says:

      Looks like lord Howard seems willing to reenact the falklands conflict with the assistance of Maggie Mk 2 to keep that bit of Spain known as Gibraltar in jolly old Blightys grasp .
      Well given the state of the British Army and armed forces through lack of personnel I hope you Jocks are ready when the call to arms is issued, and without question will come to the assistance of the Empire, Mayhem needs you, and your children in this time of need .
      This pish brings back memory’s of the falklands when it was mooted conscription might be necessary, the collective shout of AYE f/k you and yer war Maggie was heard from all the boys and apprentices in our work, I wonder how much support this Tory Regime are likely to get here for any conflict that they want to involve us in , come on the Spaniards Ha Ha .
      Then again all these Unionists should be happy to defend their Union so I guess the roads south will be blocked with willing volunteers, come on boys show the Spanish what’s what.
      And this is supposed to be the start of an amicable negotiation, it’s started well eh . Old habits die hard with the British establishment, gunboat diplomacy at work. They never learn do they.

    103. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Oops. That last caveat should read: NB: not necessarily elsewhere in Glasgow.

      And I should add, since the Tories will try to use their 1st-pref. votes as justification for their absurd “ScotRef not wanted” claim, a very low pref won’t help them with that one iota.

      OTOH, in your ward a very low pref probably won’t add up to a hill of beans for them either, so you could easily leave them out of the running also and still be able to keep your conscience and voting record clean!

    104. Brian Powell says:

      The EU must be laughing their lungs out at the UK’s spoon rattling over Gibraltar.

      Deep in army HQ they get out their DVDs of Sharpe’s Rifles to see what needs to be done, as they whistle Over the Hills and Far Away.

      Oh hang on, they were fighting the French in Spain, never mind, two birds with one illusion of grandeur.

    105. Capella says:

      @ Tinto Chiel @ Xaracen – thanks for the updates, I will amend my list! I also forgot about the “won’t pay your pension” racket as well.

      @ Stoker – what was that link to the glasgowunihumanrights site all about? It’s rabidly anti-SNP. Looks like a Scotland in Union affiliate. I’ve heard of George Laird before but can’t remember why. I shall stay well clear of that.

    106. Capella says:

      @ Polscot – more fodder! Thanks. It’s getting quite lengthy this list of scary things. Will update accordingly.

    107. Conan the Librarian says:

      @Capella

      I’ve known George for years. He’s fucking deranged.

    108. gus1940 says:

      Re our lunatic govt. at WM and talk of War with Spain:-

      Spain – Armed Forces

      Active Frontline Personnel – 125,000
      Active Reserve Personnel – 16,200

      Army

      Tanks – 327
      Armoured Fighting Vehicles – 2493
      Self-Propelled Guns – 96
      Towed Artillery – 143

      Air Power (Air Force & Navy)

      Total Aircraft – 540
      Fighters/Interceptors – 108 (includes Typhoons & Sea Harriers)
      Transports – 1
      Trainers -172
      Helicopters – 159 of which 9 are Attack Helicopters

      Navy – Total Strength – 46
      Aircraft Carriers – 1
      Frigates – 11
      Submarines 3
      Coastal Defence Craft – 23
      Mine Warfare – 7

      A not inconsiderable force who would be playing on their home ground.

      Also they have an operational Carrier with Sea Harriers unlike a Navy a bit nearer home.

      If The UK is daft enough to use force it is highly probable that Argentina might just show interest in their offshore islands again.

    109. Thepnr says:

      @jfngw

      Yeah me too thought 2014 was the end, it was done and it was over. For sure I’d be dead before Scotland became an Independent nation.

      But wait everything has been turned on it’s head. The Tories got in against all expectations in 2015, then the idiot Brexiteers cleaned up in 2016.

      So look where we are now! We only have one more final opportunity to tell these fuckers “no more” if anyone squirms at the sweary words then get out of my fucking way. We must win or suffer.

      THIS IS IT THERE ARE NO OTHER CHANCES. SHOW NO MERCY.

    110. gus1940 says:

      Have the WM lunatics stopped to consider all the British ex-pats living in Spain?

      I bet the other 27 are having a good laugh this weekend as they look forward to annihilating May’s Morons once negotiations start in earnest.

    111. Breeks says:

      Good heavens. I just took the dogs for a walk and suddenly we’re going to war with Spain??? which might escalate to WW3 according to David Cameron.

      They do realise threatening neighbours with war ranks pretty high up on the Fascist Dictators for Dummies checklist?

      Free Trade agreement? Having a laugh yeah? The way this is going Brexit is going to kick start itself with a trade embargo and sanctions.

    112. Ken500 says:

      Wait until the 2020 GE when the SNP could hold the balance of power at Westminster. If Brexit hasn’t happen. In that scenario Scotland can dictate the terms. Between two sets of Westminster criminals psycho bastards. There own description. Scotland will be Independent in the EU.

      Hope Scotland is gone by then. Have a bet on it again. Scotland will be gone any losses can be recompensed by the change and prosperity in Scotland society. Equality, fairness and happiness to come. Forward looking to a bright future.

    113. galamcennalath says:

      gus1940 says:

      look forward to annihilating May’s Morons

      The EU will be professional in their negotiating. Their objectives will be to do what’s best for the 27.

      BUT … who could blame them if they felt tempted to give the UK a ‘hiding’?

      The current Brexit loving Tories, full of arrogance, exceptionalism and entitlement, epitomise everything that the wider world despises about the UK.

      Imagine having to negotiate with them!? We may need to ourselves soon enough.

    114. ronnie anderson says:

      Wee Wullie’s crystal baws ur knackered , no long noo tae he’s applying fur ah joab as they green keeper at the Pitch n Put in Kelty, they’ll fill in the holes incase Wee Wullie faws doon wan.

      @ Robert Peffers Nice tae see you back online Robert. hoping your keeping well.

    115. Capella says:

      @ Thepnr – they are crafty though and long practiced in the arts of lies and mendacity. Besides the lengthy list of sticks with which to beat us, they have one carrot – MORE POWERS. Expect a sudden offer of “near federal” devolved powers. An offer to tempt the waverers. Repatriated powers from Europe, for example.

      I was reading the HoC Library research paper on the Quebec Referendums again. Much of the Unionist strategy echoes that of Canada. Worth studying (as I expect SNP have already done). MORE POWERS = none.
      http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/RP13-47/RP13-47.pdf

    116. Graeme says:

      @Thepnr

      In your earlier post you described my wife to tee she is also an SNP supported although wary about independence and she told me after the EU referendum vote that her Facebook page was inundated with people saying they’re gonna vote NO in an Indyref.

      I just couldn’t understand the rationale and so pissed off i posted on here that if we voted NO again I would never call myself a Scotsman ever (and I still hold to that) because if we vote No again we really are too stupid and I don’t want to associate myself with that

      Personally I don’t do any social media but I’ll have to ask her if she’s having the same experience as your missus

      Graeme

    117. galamcennalath says:

      “More powers”

      One simple way to test that as solution – implement it prior to ScotRef. No promises for the never never, get it established and running.

      Of course they won’t. Middle England will spit the dummy at more privileges and special treatment for Scotland (as they see it).

      There will be NO MORE POWERS, only worthless empty promises.

    118. bugsbunny says:

      HandandShrimp,

      You can’t become a Liberal Politician without first being a Certified Liar, the same way you can’t become a Labour Politician without being a Certified Thief or a Conservative Politician without being a Certified Pervert or a UKIP Politician without being a Certified Loony. It comes with the territory.

    119. Capella says:

      @ Conan the Librarian – deranged the poor chap is. But if he’s based at Glasgow University, perhaps he associates with Professor Smirky?

      Glasgow Uni is beginning to take on a rather sinister role IMO. Besides the mad Professor and deranged human rights activist, there is also the bizarre promotion of “Prof” Jim Gallagher.
      Eric Joyce has an interesting blog post pointing out that he is not an academic at all but a staunch Unionist ex civil servant. How come these guys get titles like “Professor” bestowed on them?

      http://www.ericjoyce.co.uk/2016/10/how-an-oxford-and-glasgow-university-laundering-operation-turned-a-retired-unionist-civil-servant-into-an-impartial-and-eminent-academic/

    120. bugsbunny says:

      Dorothy,

      The Liberals are not 4th in the Scottish Parliament, they are 5th, gaining 5 seats and 5.2% of the vote as opposed to the Greens 6 seats and 6.6% of the vote. The Liberals who were Government only 2 years ago have only 8 seats in Westminster. As my old Granny would have said, “Oh, how the mighty have fallen”.

    121. Roboscot says:

      If they’re looking for volunteers for war with Spain they can ask all those Loyalists who like to march through our streets with pretendy military uniforms. Go on boys, prove your loyalty.

    122. Ken500 says:

      The Tories won’t just be fighting Spain they will be opposed by the whole EU, US, Russian, China Japan – and the rest of the world. UN and NATO International Treaties. The nukes are stored in Scotland because the Tories dumped them there illegally. All so the Tories and their associates can evade tax. Would it not be better and easier if they just paid up?

    123. harry mcaye says:

      There’s a poll on http://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/nicola-sturgeon-not-seek-theresa-12833552#ICID=sharebar_twitter on independence that unbelievably is currently 66% No. It was 68% a few minutes ago so word is slowly getting out. Must have had a mass response from Sevco fans or something. Unfortunate choice of word there!

    124. manandboy says:

      https://archive.is/2UbXE

      This link is to an article in the Guardian on the subject of online big money manipulation of elections. This is very scary stuff re ScotRef. The Electoral Commission are as yet impotent.

      Compliments to Stoker for his words of encouragement.

    125. bugsbunny says:

      Ken500,

      The loyal men won’t be fighting anyone any time soon. It’s hard to fight slim trim Spaniarrds when your 22 stone of blubber that is 3 months away from a heart attack or a stroke. They prefer unarmed folks on their own whilst they are have 5 pals all armed to the teeth.

    126. crazycat says:

      @ Capella

      I used to work for Glasgow University. Quite a while ago (I can’t remember exactly when, but I left in 2010 and it was well before that) George Laird somehow managed to send a global e-mail to every single person with a .gla.ac.uk address about his travails.

      I think he had been working in some sports centre within the university and failed to get a promotion. It was fairly obvious from the deranged style of his missive that this was probably a good decision on the university’s part, but he would not let it lie, and was asking us all to complain on his behalf (I don’t remember the details but suspect his human rights came into it somewhere).

      As for a connection with Professor Smirky, GL was back then exceedingly unimpressed with the Law Department, who had not satisfactorily supported him in his complaints. One of the people he moaned about is a realtive of mine. If GL is still connected with the university, perhaps he has settled his differences – they were not pleased by his e-mail and sent us all another message to ignore it, apologizing that he had manged to access all our addresses.

    127. Stoker says:

      Sorry for delayed responses, was having my dinner.

      crazycat (4:08 pm)

      Well done and thanks!
      Never read your post due to focus on finding info for Clipper.

      Capella wrote (4:27 pm):
      “what was that link to the glasgowunihumanrights site all about? It’s rabidly anti-SNP. Looks like a Scotland in Union affiliate.”

      It looked pro indy to me. It even has links to some of our own.

    128. crazycat says:

      *relative*

      I don’t have realtives.
      Tssk.

    129. Ken500 says:

      Glasgow Uni the Labour Unionist stronghold. 1st class degrees to all the members. The tentacles spread out through Scottish society. Regurgitated 3rd raters. . They can’t count or read a balance sheet. Ist class degrees in economics with the the old nod, a wink and the handshake. Loads of honour and remuneration. Massive salaries while vulnerable people are illegally starved to death. Most of them should be in jail.

      Tommy Sheridan did more for the poorer in Glasgow. Fought the Poll tax and stopped warrant sales. Ist Class degree in Economics and Law. Blair the lying illegal warmonger got his criminal tax evading mate Murdoch and M15 to stitch Tommy up. They didn’t get away with it.

    130. Stoker says:

      manandboy wrote at 5:35 pm:

      “Compliments to Stoker for his words of encouragement.”

      Sarcasm, love it! At your age and with your experience you shouldn’t need words of encouragement. 🙂

    131. stewartb says:

      It doesn’t take long for the right wing press (notably The Telegraph) to further inflame Lord Howard’s jingoism with appalling stuff of their own, fed by a former very senior figure in the UK armed forces. Having stoked up anti-EU feelings over decades The Telegraph is now happy to generate and give space to war-mongering rhetoric.

      Here are extracts from what was published by The Telegraph today, on 2 April 2017 and written by Laura Hughes, their Political Correspondent:

      ‘Rear-Adml Chris Parry, a former director of operational capability at the Ministry of Defence,  has called on the Government to “appropriately” invest in Britain’s military capacity if it wants to “talk big” over Gibraltar.’

      “We are a lot less powerful than we were during the Falklands and we are much weaker. Our capacity for actually enforcing our will in military terms is significantly less.”

      It goes on:

      ‘However, he insisted that Britain’s military capability “vastly” outnumbers Spain’s and that if it came to a war, the UK is three times more powerful. But he added: “We could cripple Spain in the medium term and I think the Americans would probably support us too”.

      “In terms of military capability we would vastly outnumber them and our capacity to do them harm is far greater.”

      The very fact that such a ‘high ranking’ individual EVEN THINKS in these terms in the 21st Century far less spouts this stuff, and that a newspaper either seeks this out or agrees to give it profile, says so much about the state of affairs in this UK that we must escape from. What must sane people in Europe and the wider world think of us?

    132. Capella says:

      @ crazycat – interesting. Probably we shouldn’t give this person any more of our time. But Stoker, if you’re listening, heres an article which shows beyond doubt that he is no friend of the Independence movement. George is itching for a fight:

      “If Nicola Sturgeon wants a fight, then it is time to give her exactly what she wants, but this time, the rules will be set by Westminster. Westminster needs to start thinking of the concept that they can step in and overrule Holyrood, and with the SNP at the helm, this would be the first time since devolution”

      https://archive.is/gxoqf

    133. Stoker says:

      Heads up, troops, the Rev is trying to get the annual funds donations to hit the 300% mark. Less than one hour ago it was sitting at £1,652 short of the target with just hours remaining.
      https://twitter.com/WingsScotland/status/848569085038399492

    134. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      @ Ken500: “Bombing half the world to bits.”

      I think you’ll find that was mostly the yanks. Westminster was of course up to its neck in it, but dealt out merely a fraction of the damage. I hope an Independent Scotland has as little to do with America as possible.

    135. Stoker says:

      Capella,

      No, i’m not listening but i am reading and taking on board your advice. Will check it out more thoroughly later when i can be ersed. 🙂

    136. crazycat says:

      @ Stoker

      I’ve just had a look at George Laird’s site to see if I think it’s pro-indy.

      I’ve concluded that he is trying to promote “human rights at Glasgow University” but there is no evidence he still works there; it seems more likely he is pursuing his historic grudge.

      Beyond that, he’s very muddled. He’s fanatically anti-SNP and anti a second referendum. He’s pro-Brexit (I think; it’s a little contradictory in places). He boasts at the top about having “secured the first criminal conviction against one of the seven top cybernats outed by the Daily Mail”.

      His links include pro-indy people but Scotland in Union tops the list.

      So he’s bonkers (poor chap; not his fault and deserving of sympathy), but not, in my view, an ally.

    137. JLT says:

      Well …it’s been some 5 days.

      With the UK literally being handed its backside on a silver platter on a daily basis, we seem to have hit the nonsensical levels where old Tory ministers along with certain media establishments, all relishing the idea of a war with Spain.

      Seriously …the mind boggles!

      What some of these fools have forgotten (or were just plain ignorant to begin with), is that the EU was created, intentionally, to stop any future wars between France and Germany, but in a more general aspect, to stop any war in Europe overall.

      So, it’s good to see what happens after just 5 days of Article 50 being invoked, where the UK media are spoiling for a fight with Spain, as to who owns a mountain by the sea that contains a bunch of monkeys!

      If ever there was a reason to show why the EU stops wars …well, thank you Britain and Gibraltar.

      Makes you wonder what jaw-dropping nonsense will take place this coming week!

    138. Cactus says:

      Last night was fun 🙂

      Cheers again to all of you Sunday siblings.

      Et Viva Espana!

    139. Robert Graham says:

      How many days are the mayhem regime into amicable negotiations with the EU ? , four ,five at most and troops are being readied well f/k it’s all going well so far eh . it just goes to show how self controlled our Nicola has been , trying to , attempting to deal with this out of control loony Tory government.
      Next out of the blocks will be the Daily Mail closely followed by the Sun , I am getting the impression things are getting a tiny weeny bit out of control . Thank f/k Mayhems in the driving seat eh . Normal service will be resumed shortly chaps .

    140. Ian McCubbin says:

      Seems the whole unionist side is already at full better together 2 speed on every front. This time I hope most of their nonsense is even for what it is.
      As for Willie Rennie time he retired to a safe beach on Cost Blanca.

    141. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      There’s a war in the papers, dear writer, dear writer,
      There’s a war in the papers, dear writer, a war.

      With what shall I fix it, dear reader, dear reader,
      With what shall I fix it, dear reader, with what?

      With truth, dear writer, dear writer, dear writer,
      With truth, dear writer, dear writer, with truth.

      Oh is that the time already, dear reader, dear reader,
      I must be going now, dear reader, dear reader, good bye.

    142. Gary45% says:

      bugsbunny@5.40,
      Aye their usual cry is “come back you coward and fight the ten of us”.
      Cannot see the Spanish giving any notice to the “All new Empire Armada”, because the Empire wont have the Scots on the front line. I cannot understand the mentality of the sabre rattling at the moment, its time Angerland woke up and realised its a nobody, shouting and threatening just makes you look even more foolish.
      (methinks desperation)
      I will be in Spain shortly, our Spanish friends already know my feelings, I think a few new T-shirts will be getting organised so the airport staff know my feeling towards the EU and England. I am not connected with the racist bigots. Never have, never will be.

    143. Macart says:

      WTF?!? Falklands rhetoric? Don’t mess with Britain? Howard and Fallon are dangerous morons who should learn to keep their faces shut. Just when you need a minder (nanny in the case of Howard) to pounce on the halfwits before they get out of order, there’s no bugger to be seen.

      They are off their bloody heads. This will come nowhere near conflict of any kind.

      Bit of a reality check for both HMG and I’m afraid the people of Gibraltar. All it will take is two little words – hard border. Spain simply refuses to deal or trade with Gibraltar or England in any way shape or form. Stick their oar in to any negotiated trade deals brought before the EU for voting or indeed ensure that any and all tariff or VISA laws applicable come down on England or Gibraltar like a falling cliff.

      Not a single shot fire or a sabre rattled. A nation state simply adhering to the letter of EU law and procedure.

      So far this week since A50 was triggered. UK gov have threatened the EU with removal security sharing and conservative politicians seem hell bent on ramping up military rhetoric against a near continental neighbour.

      Brexit looking good so far folks? Still better together? Oh, and how’s that whole unifying the UK thing looking at this point?

      Maybe just me, but if the calibre of arrogant bumtrumpetry coming out of W1 is anything to go by, the future continental relations doesn’t look particularly bright.

      Now does it?

    144. Proud Cybernat says:

      Hey Kez, Rude, Wullie. War wi’ Spain – that what yae all voted against the Scottish Gov for? So – yupfurrit?

      Naw? Then damn well get yerselves right behind the Scottish Gov toot sweet (that means quickly Wullie) and tell the ultra-right, xenophobic, Brit Sabernats in London that Scotland will NEVER condone any such war. Do it and do it now. Stop your dithering and get behind the people of Scotland for once in yer miserable lives and tell the regime in London, loud and clear, “NO WAR!”.

    145. gordoz says:

      Can someone remind me what % of the vote Lib Dims are on ?

      Seriousy why cite these brit nat idiots ?

      Rennie you are a buffoon (like a petulent cat thats tips ormanets off the mantelpiece for attention; similar brain cells firing) you don’t speak for any significant section of our society but typical of the provoking style of the useless rag called the record(?) to cite anything from a has been since Labour are a tainted brand.

    146. gordoz says:

      Can someone remind me what % of the vote Lib Dims are on ?

      Seriousy why cite these brit nat idiots ?

      Rennie you are a buffoon (like a petulent cat thats tips ornmanets off the mantelpiece for attention; similar brain cells firing) you don’t speak for any significant section of our society but typical of the provoking style of the useless rag called the record(?) to cite anything from a has been since Labour are a tainted brand.

    147. Conan the Librarian says:

      The Spanish Foreign Legion stopped taking non Spanish citizens as volunteers in 1986 alas…

    148. call me dave says:

      @Macart

      arrogant ‘bumtrumpetry’ ??

      You’re competing with

      Jabberwocky and runcible

      Brilliant.

      But honestly… what are they Tories like!

    149. Cactus says:

      Here’s a handy tip if you’re ever in need of diffusing a heated face-to-face conversation with someone who constantly complains about and disses Scotland.. (it’s a state of mind that they’re in)

      Wait until they finish their questioning sentence, take a small pause and then launch into the first verse and chorus of ‘Caledonia.’

      I’ve trialed it out a few times, works wonders!

      Have also tried out singing ‘Caledonia’ when a live band played Leonard Cohen’s ‘Hallelujah’, it works mighty fine TJenny 🙂

    150. Stoker says:

      WOS archive links now showing over on O/T.
      __________

      crazycat,
      Yeah, think i have to come to a similar conclusion. Anyway, it all happened in my haste to get info to Clipper and provide a clear idea as to who Billy McAllister is. I’ll do a Capella and give it a wide birth from now on.
      __________

      Soaring towards 300%
      https://twitter.com/WingsScotland/status/848569085038399492

    151. TheBuchanLoony says:

      Scotland’s fishing waters in exchange for keeping Gibraltar tax haven…I’m sure Theresa will see that as a good deal!

    152. Croompenstein says:

      Choices, choices do I watch Inside Buckingham Palace on 5 or Dame Vera Lynn Happy 100th Birthday on EBC4…

      We don’t know how lucky we are.. 🙂

    153. Robert Graham says:

      Capella thanks for the link to the Eric Joyce piece ,if this was indeed his own work it turns on its head the notion of him being a deranged drunk , so far an interesting site and a good read , again thanks for posting .

    154. Marie Clark says:

      WAR!! Jeez oh, how to win friends and influence people right enough. It’s ma baw, an you”re no playing. Bloody hell.

      5 days in since article 50 was signed, and it ain’t going too well now is it. The EU must be splitting their sides laughing at these idiots. Nae clue, nae idea, just arrogance and threats. My, my, my.The sooner we go our own way the better for all of us.

      Well said Macart @ 6.26, very true.

    155. Breeks says:

      Are you YES yet? – Scarey bananas….

      Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

      1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism – Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.?

      2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights – Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of “need.” The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.?

      3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause – The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.?

      4. Supremacy of the Military – Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.?

      5. Rampant Sexism – The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.?

      6. Controlled Mass Media – Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.???

      7. Obsession with National Security – Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.?

      8. Religion and Government are Intertwined – Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government’s policies or actions.?

      9. Corporate Power is Protected – The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.?

      10. Labor Power is Suppressed – Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.?

      11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts – Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.?

      12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment – Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.?

      13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption – Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.?

      14. Fraudulent Elections – Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.?

      “They Thought They Were Free: The Germans 1933-1945”,
      University of Chicago Press. Reissued in paperback, April, 1981.

      And add to the list, seeking to suppress democracy in a breakaway Scotland, flood our airwaves with Unionist propaganda, and now, agitate for wars with peaceful neighbours over disputed territories.

      I wasn’t kidding before. Maybe Britain will indeed leave the EU and see itself ostracised and under UN sanctions.

      Referendum cannot come quick enough for me….

    156. mike d says:

      Galamcennalath 5.08pm.anyone in Scotland with half a brain knows there will be no more powers for Scotland. But ruthie’s loyal followers wont give a sh*t as long as we are in their precious ‘yoonyin’. They would rather see Scotland laid waste economically,industrially,and educationally.

    157. call me dave says:

      Yeah! I’m off Stu’s list. Beanie hat wae badges! 🙂

      WoS twitter is full of nuggets since this morning!

      So many uninformed Unionist folk getting their just deserts (archaic like their ideas).

      Right off to the movies. 123 free (try a google)

    158. crazycat says:

      @ Stoker

      Glad we agree!

      It’s always a pest when hurrying to answer a question, knowing full well that someone else is likely to have got there first, making your efforts redundant, but wanting to do it just in case no-one else picks it up.

    159. Marcia says:

      Maybe Trident will be moved to Gibraltar?

    160. crazycat says:

      @ Robert Graham at 7.03

      I went to an “evening with Eric Joyce” a few weeks ago, to see what he was like in person.

      My conclusion is that he’s embarrassed by some of his past, and doing all he can to further the cause he now supports (he was never as hostile to independence as his colleagues who remained in SLab, anyway, in my view). His blog is a good start.

    161. Bob Mack says:

      England has finally gone insane. I am changing my name to Pedro if the call comes. I would never, ever, ever, condone any military action against Spain.

      Sign up to the Caledonian front.I know which side I would be on.

    162. HandandShrimp says:

      A strange day, from being their own private army, Yoons are now spitting tacks at Spain’s cheek to question Gibraltar’s Britishness and to say that they won’t veto Scotland’s entry to the EU.

      How very dare they…do the Vulcan bombers still work?

    163. Breeks says:

      Sorry, in my previous post, the ? Marks were actually tick marks for check!

      The UK hit 12 out of 14.

    164. mike d says:

      Graeme 5.05pm spot on . after sep 2014 when i went abroad on holiday,although born in Scotland I have an Irish passport,and having lived and went to school there in my younger years before my irish dad and scots mum moved back to Scotland,(i do both accents in my sleep) I was so f****ing ashamed to speak with a scots accent after that shameful referendum result. Could you imagine an englishman/woman voting to let another country rule them . eu spring to mind.

    165. Stoker says:

      crazycat (7:11 pm)

      It’s the good in us, always eager to help.
      It’s what differentiates us from Unionists.
      We tend to think of others ahead of ourselves.

    166. Breeks says:

      In fact, make that 13 out of 14; Didn’t May say that God would see her through Brexit?

      That’s No 8 kinda ticked…

      Just leaves the rampant sexism unchecked.

    167. Graeme says:

      I don’t know what Eric done in the past that makes him so toxic to some people, I believe he gave a tory a slap (hardly the crime of the century in my book) but I read all his writings and he comes across to me as a common sense decent guy with a conscience a rare thing amongst the pond life at Westminster

      Graeme

    168. Capella says:

      @ Robert Graham – Stu rates Eric Joyce and his site, From No to Yes, is listed in the centre panel. So that’s good enough for me.
      The Jim Gallagher article is an interesting insight into how easily we can all be duped by clever sounding titles. I heard him interviewed on Radio Scotland in 2014 but had no idea he was a committed Unionist. The BBC doesn’t explain the background and bias of their pundits.

    169. Cadogan Enright says:

      @clipper 2 April, 2017 at 2:38 pm

      schrodingers cat is correct – follow what he said at 3.26 and after.

      BUT remember the SNP will want half the constituency to vote 1 for the first SNP candidate and the OTHER half of the constituency to vote 1 for the second SNP candidate

      Important to find out from SNP in your electoral area in which order your 1 and 2 should go to make sure both get in

      Then Green (unless you are green then its 1 for green with 2 and 3 for SNP)

      and after that wot schrodingers cat said

    170. Dr Jim says:

      Sturgeon accused in secret talks with Mexico against UK on Gibralter crisis
      Today First Minister of Scotland Nicola Sturgeon held talks with the Mexican government on bringing immigrant workers to Scotland for the building of a wall and border post between England and Scotland with the bill being levied by the EU on the UK as part of the UK settlement deal

      The new initiative is to be supported by President Trumph as he gets to get rid of some Mexicans while the UK gets rid of the Europeans
      Everybody wins said President Trumph

      Now that’s silly enough to be almost fact

      What a day what a day!

    171. Donald Maclean says:

      Michael Howard on the TV today saying Spain should be careful because the last time 35 Years ago a Spanish speaking country threatened uk interests, uk wit to war under mrs thatcher.

      Shaking our heads is not sufficient, idiots like Howard should be reported for inciting violence against people from other countries!

      tory voters, I hope you are proud?

    172. Breeks says:

      Sshhhh!

      The BritNats are spending £500million on changing their passports to blue…

      Don’t anybody say a word about the Unicorn on the front. Let us and Homer Simpson just keep it to ourselves for now…. Doh!

    173. ian m says:

      stewartb

      I thought you were having a laugh with your last post

      I mean seriously who is going to talk about going to war with another country when you have not even started negotiating with the parent organization.

      Has Spain even said a word to anybody recently?

      This is the type of folly that will have some people frothing at the mouth

      It may also be the “straw that breaks the camels back” and allows Theresa May to walk away, as has been suggested that she wants to do anyway

    174. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Here’s link to the GlasgowLive poll mentioned earlier. Now 58% ‘No’, down from 68% when Harry Macaye linked, so it’s going in the right direction.

      https://archive.is/qnhd0

    175. Graeme says:

      Trying to figure out what an independent Scotland would be like according to our colonial masters.

      well all our kids would have nits, accident victims would die for the want of a blood transfusion because their red white & blue blood would be no good to us anymore and even if it was they wouldn’t give it to us (no more than we deserve) our elderly would be begging in the streets because they’ve lost their pensions Russia would invade just because they could and aliens likewise (well you know what aliens are like), we’d have no money because England says we’re not getting any, we’d be trapped north of Berwick/Carlisle because there would be a great fucking wall there keeping us out and no point in looking to Europe for help because well the Spanish don’t like us do they

      All sounds pretty good compared to Brexit

      Graeme

    176. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      ian m @ 20:09,

      Nah, it’s not deliberate, it’s “mission creep”. The Mayhem Gang have been at it already for some time, surreptitiously slipping from the original Leaver platform during the EURef of staying in the single market into the current hard Brexit, as they slowly came to realise that they wouldn’t be able to square it with the EU immigration controls they wanted. (As opposed to the non-EU immigration controls they have always had but which don’t work anyway. =snarf=)

      A slippage, incidentally, completely ignored by a compliant MSM including the “let’s stick together” BBC. (Nothing new there, then.)

      Now that their dream bubbles are beginning to be popped by the EU27, they are being forced almost unwittingly into a harder and harder line.

      “Events, dear chap, events.”

      And they will probably take the vast majority of England with them, since anti-EU opinions there seem to be hardening among the general public as well. So no backtracking possible, even if they were tempted to.

      Think of the English what you will, at least they have the chops to get on with what they have decided regardless. Unlike all the sorry PSBs we’re saddled with here.

    177. Robert Peffers says:

      @Hamish100 says: 2 April, 2017 at 12:27 pm:

      “maybe Willie Rennie would like to correct his statement in light of the facts. Could WoS ask him?”

      D’ye think Wullie would listen any more carefully to Wings than he listens to the Scottish FM at FM’s Question Time, Hamish100?

      I get the impression Wullie would attempt to walk through the Pearly Gates of Heaven after St Peter had just told him to head back down the long golden stairway back to Earth, to turn hard left at the bottom, and take the fast one-way lift to Hades where they were expecting his imminent arrival.

    178. Robert Kerr says:

      @stewartb

      I have met Chris Parry at his book signing at the Hay on Wye book festival in 2014.

      Super Highway: Sea Power in the 21st Century. Elliott & Thompson. ISBN 978-1908739841.

      This was prior to the first IRef.

      A mild mannered RETIRED Navy man of Welsh origins.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Parry_(Royal_Navy_officer)

      He said we should stay in the Union and that there were some very good Scots people in the Navy.

    179. louis.b.argyll says:

      From the other side, it’ll soon be the..
      ‘I told him we already got one’.. (sniggers) negotiating strategy.

      UK government states that..
      ‘the union (the UK one) has brought 300 years OF PEACE AND SECURITY.. ‘

      Am I dreaming? Are they for real?

    180. Julian Smith says:

      Clipper, Cadogan Enwright’s advice is good. You don’t have to rank all candidates. So don’t rank any of the candidates from Unionist parties or any Independent candidates who don’t support Independence.

    181. louis.b.argyll says:

      Indeed Robert, Willie Rennie is an embarrassment to public service itself.

      Only the Scottish Lib Dems, scraping the barrel, would be so pathetic as to make him their leader. Even if they picked their leader by lottery, it’s hard to imagine a worse choice.

    182. galamcennalath says:

      louis.b.argyll says:

      300 years

      British Nationalist myth No 271 – their Empire was a force for good in the world.

      There is a very short list of countries which UKOK hasn’t actually invaded or gone to war with!

    183. Cadogan Enright says:

      we need more of this

      Labour politicians converting https://www.facebook.com/theSNP/videos/10155267265374078/

      Only take a few of these to swing it

    184. Liam says:

      Surely Howard’s and Fallon’s remarks just totally scuppered any remaining “Spainish Veto of EU membership” idea.

      After a tacit deceleration of hostility like that what Spanish politician wouldn’t want to stick the boot into the Westminster government by helping us all they could?

    185. harry mcaye says:

      Former Tory Leader Michael Howard calling for War against Spain vs Some Yes Stickers on Donald Dewar’s Statue.

      Kaye Adams certainly has a dilemma for tomorrow’s phone-in.

    186. call me dave says:

      WoS fund raiser over 300% by a good bit!

      Must have been a few like me leaving it to near the end or taking 2nd dibs.

      Excellent.

    187. Liam says:

      ‘declaration’ not ‘deceleration’ – damn!

    188. Iain More says:

      So there are liars and then there are damned liars then there are Yoon liars.

    189. Cadogan Enright says:

      @ Julian Smith 8:54 pm
      Clipper, Cadogan Enwright’s advice is good. You don’t have to rank all candidates.

      JULIAN YOU TOTALLY MIS-UNDERSTAND.

      It is right to list and vote for ALL 11 candidates in a 4 councilor election area.

      PLease go read schrodingers cat at 3.36 and Stoker at 3.58

      VITAL to vote done the list 1- 11 and miss none out

      Worst Yoon at the bottom – its down to maths – if you want deatail look at James Kelly’s site

      Or just trust us who have worked with the STV voting system for many years.

      Objective – Tory Party or Labour Party Council Leader at number 11

    190. marga says:

      Have you seen Tebbit’s Telegraph contribution – suggesting that if Gibraltar is to be used against the British, the British should use support for the independence of Catalonia against the Spanish.

      https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-sunday-telegraph/20170402/281646779983200

      Must admit to surprise that the old guy’s still on the go.

      Who said Scotland and Catalonia are internal issues? Gibraltar may be the key to unlocking a few doors.

    191. Robert Peffers says:

      @Swami Backverandah says: 2 April, 2017 at 12:33 pm

      “The terminally tin-eared thought they were saying Caledonia”

      I attempted to post the following already but it vanished into the Ether.

      The only person I can recall the UK Propaganda Wing ever quoting as claiming Spain would definitely veto any already independent Scotland application to join the EU, or would seek to expel a Scotland that had voted to remain as the member state when the United Kingdom had dissolved the Treaty of Union was in fact the oft (mis)quoted:-

      José Manuel Durão Barroso, (born 23 March 1956). who is a, PORTUGUES politician. (Now the current, non-executive, chairman at Goldman Sachs International). He was previously the 11th President of the European COMMISSION, (from 2004to 2014).

      Also he was the 115th Prime Minister of PORTUGAL (from 2002 to 2004).

      So he was neither Spanish nor an official spokesperson of the European Union and he always made a point of saying it was his own personal opinion and not that of the European COMMISSION.

      Do I really need to shout the facts out loud before they are understood? The Rev Stu correctly makes the point that NO official Spanish Government nor any official EU spokesperson has ever made such claims.

      In point of fact diplomacy dictates that no such official views, (one way or the other), would be made. In fact the EU made just such a point that the EU would not have any official dealings except via the official member state.

      What they did not point out was that in the case of the UK the title itself proves that the UK is NOT a member country because the UK is not legally a single country and it never, in its recorded history, has ever been a single country as the very treaty that formed it makes very, very clear.

    192. marga says:

      Tebbit: “If I were in no 10, I would let it be known that I was thinking of inviting Catalan leaders to London or even raising their desires at the UN”

      Your turn, Mr Rajoy, get the red carpet out for Nicola.

    193. Cadogan Enright says:

      @Julian Smith 8.54

      you mis-read what I wrote

      to play the STV system properly you have to vote RIGHT DOWN TO THE END OF THE CARD

      Best yessers at top

      worst yoons at bottom

      and any others in the middle – see schrodingers cat 3.36 and Stoker at 3.58

    194. Robert Graham says:

      On the BBC website ,Headline , First minister starts a five day visit to the USA ,
      Third line the Tory party has questioned her commitment and she should get on with the day job,
      It takes until the sixth line to mention that it is a trade visit and the Scottish parliament is in Easter recess. They must really believe we are bloody stupid
      No mention of Mayhem being on a visit to the Middle East , at a time when some of her colleagues are openly discussing ways of giving Spain a NATO ally, a right good kicking,
      My it’s good to get your news from a truly trusted outfit like the BBC isn’t it .
      A one off could be ignored when it’s every story you start to feel a bit paranoid, yep I am.

    195. Macart says:

      Hmmmm.

      Hols on the Costa should be a hoot this year. 😉

    196. Hamish100 says:

      Nice to see the RUK government will support Gibraltar to the end –even going to war— except of course that they will refuse to accept that Gibraltar’s democratic vote to remain in the EU- FUNNY OLD WORLD.

      Of course if Espana wished to walk into Gibralter they could. Years of defence cuts have taken their toll.

      Then the Moroccans could march into Ceuta (Spains, Gibraltar in North Africa). The old colonial past still haunts Spain and England.

    197. Mike says:

      So what happens when Scotland and NI refuse Westminsters call to arms?

    198. twathater says:

      What really rips ma knitting is this insignificant delusional TWAT is being paid 70k a year by us poor taxpayers to come out with utter lying pish like this , without being challenged and exposed as the incompetent shysters him and his party are by the very people who are giving them oxygen and a platform to spout this drivel

      The MSM would be better concentrating on the alleged frauds being perpetrated on the citizens by members of this idiots party and other supposed right honourable members ( what a bloody misnomer )

    199. Robert Graham says:

      Silly question, will English clubs be allowed to compete in the old European cup, champions league as its now known as, a lot of European countries are not particularly in favour of the annual ritual of hooligans doing their European tour with the associated damage and disruption it causes.

    200. Robert Peffers says:

      @Capella says: 2 April, 2017 at 1:49 pm:

      ” … Have I missed anything?”

      Aye! No Scottish political retirees elevated to the HOL.
      No English exports of Buckfast to Scotland.
      No English Football teams on Scottish National TV.
      All British Lions team members must have at least one Grandparent born in England.
      No Scots allowed in the English Olympics teams.
      All Haggis imports to England must either wear muzzles or have their teeth pulled.
      All sgian-dubh are banned from entry into England under English weapons control legislation but all forms of Nuclear WMDs are allowed.

      Oh! Nearly forgot that all English Hard Borders will be manufactured from biodegradable plastics.

    201. Pentland Firth says:

      Asked about his response to the Spanish Foreign Minister’s denial of a veto on an independent Scotland’s membership of the European Union, Willie Rennie was unusually unavailable for comment. His mother explained that “Willie is playing on his slide in the garden and will throw a tantrum if disturbed”.

      Annie Wells, however, offered the view that the Spanish “are at it”. She claimed that they were “lying through their teeth simply in order to embarrass her Britannic Majesty’s Government”. It was, she concluded, “proof that we were well out of the clutches of those foreigners”.

      Kezia Dugdale opined that “it was the sort of thing Spanish Tories would say. They are conspiring against the internationalist British working class in their support for reactionary Scottish nationalism.”

    202. So the Spanish FM says that Spain wouldn’t veto an independent Scotland’s application to join the EU.
      Stands to reason really, Scotland is a good friend to Spain.
      We engaged a Spanish architect to design our national parliament at Holyrood : Enric Miralles.

      Many young Spaniards who were unemployed in Spain are now working in Edinburgh and throughout our country.

      We won’t support the Tories jingoistic beating of the war drums against Spain which will used to stoke up more ill feeling against the EU by unionist press

    203. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Cadogan Enright @ 21:29,

      I hate to disagree with your evident experience, even ever so slightly, but it doesn’t make any difference to the result if you omit your very last choice, or even two, where those choices have clearly no chance of winning. (The last time in Canal, with a comparably long list of candidates, the count went to 12 rounds, and in such a case, such voter abstention would not even affect many eliminees’ final count.)

      Judging by past experience, this would likely be the situation with any Tory in the Canal ward of Glasgow, which was the particular situation under discussion. Which would let that voter off the hook if voting Tory was particularly repugnant to him/her.

      (This wouldn’t apply in general, though, obviously.)

    204. Robert Louis says:

      I thought I had seen everything, but the truly mad behaviour of the nutters running Brexit this weekend does make for remarkable reading. Clear threats of military action against Spain, delivered by a former leader, and cabinet member of the current ruling party in the Westminster Government. Un- freaking-believable.

      England is descending into madness. Literally, they have truly lost the plot. We cannot be independent soon enough from these madmen.

      O/T, but related,

      Not sure of all the countries being covered, but The National tomorrow starts a mini-series on small successful European countries. Starts with a small country, about the size of Scotland, rich in oil, like Scotland and a similar population. The only real difference, is that Norway isn’t run by an unrepresentative undemocratic Government in London, and is now one of the richest countries in the world. Series has a foreword by Alex Salmond.

    205. call me dave says:

      US tech firm Xilinx to invest in Edinburgh research base.

      Nicola Sturgeon said the move by Xilinx Inc would create 12 new jobs and protect 30 existing roles.

      http://archive.is/Ry4PC

      The Sunday Express traduced our FM and Scotland today a disgrace.

      Council elections first step by step! 🙂

    206. Robert Louis says:

      Call me dave at 1008pm,

      Exactly, inward investment by high tech industries into Scotland is something to be welcomed. Let’s hope it leads eventually to further increased investment.

    207. Robert Kerr says:

      Re council Elections.

      What is the word on the Wings regarding

      “Tommy Sheridan – Solidarity – Hope Over Fear” party?

      They should be above the yoons surely in the voting pecking order.

      Cadogen Enright tells us to “Vote till you Boak” Hard with some of the candidates.

    208. call me dave says:

      @Robert Graham

      Big Auntie darn Sarf radio 5 raked over the footie possibilities
      this morning I was tuned in.
      (Shortbread meanwhile was talking about anything not Scottish as usual not even Brexit. Oh apart from NS having a freebie in USA)

      Gist radio 5 was:
      Curtailing of foreign EU players in most English leagues and will apply to the Scots if Independent in EU. But accommodation will probably be agreed.

      Imagine the UK not able to pretend their team is only one country as they have been doing for years.
      Bonus is a Scottish Olympic team.

      British Lions rugby probably still OK as is the Ryder Cup etc.

    209. Chick McGregor says:

      On “Who Dares Wins”, a quiz show asking contestants to bet against each other to name as many items as they can on a list and which is renowned for its pedantry, allowed an answer of ‘England’ for ‘A European country’ instead of the correct answer of ‘The UK’. Says it all.

    210. mike d says:

      Robert Louis 10.04pm only problem Robert,countries like Norway got rid of ("Quizmaster" - Ed)s after the war . we still have them.

    211. Capella says:

      @ Robert Peffers – you jest!
      The football one is similar to the vexing question – will Barca be able to play in the Spanish league if Catalonia goes independent?
      Here’s an interesting Al Jazeera interview with the President of Catalonia Carles Puigdemont. Covers much the same ground as the Scottish situation.
      “What goes for Scotland, goes for Catalonia 25 mins:

      http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/talktojazeera/2017/04/puigdemont-scotland-catalonia-170401095538077.html

    212. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

      Tomorrow’s National front page:

      https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8boZxrXUAE-jbK.jpg

    213. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

      The National:

      “Tomorrow @ScotNational As Spain says it would not veto indy Scotland joining EU we launch a series on small countries and ask WHA’S LIKE US?”

      https://twitter.com/ScotNational

    214. ian m says:

      Half a league, half a league,
      Half a league onward,
      All in the valley of Death
      Rode the six hundred.
      “Forward, the Light Brigade!
      “Charge for the guns!” he said:
      Into the valley of Death
      Rode the six hundred.

      2.
      “Forward, the Light Brigade!”
      Was there a man dismay’d?
      Not tho’ the soldier knew
      Someone had blunder’d:
      Theirs not to make reply,
      Theirs not to reason why,
      Theirs but to do and die:
      Into the valley of Death
      Rode the six hundred.

    215. heedtracker says:

      April 2nd 2017 and BBC r4 tory gimps are actually sabre rattling at Spain.

      That is all.

    216. call me dave says:

      Tory grandee raises prospect of war over Gibraltar says Hootsman.
      He’s on Radio 5 live as I word process this.

      Back pedaling a bit! 🙂

      I occasionally take my snorkel and view the comments but here’s a funny thing lots of the comments that would normally ‘disappear’ are still up and links too.

      Scotbhoy: has three links up

      History of empire very damming pile of extracts and film going way back.

      One to todays Wings

      I wont post without archiving but for those interested worth a look.

      Howard has ‘chickened out’ never said it or implied it shurley schome mishtake…liar! 🙁

    217. Capella says:

      There’s a truly pathetic BBC piece on the First Minister’s trip to US. After a brief intro the reporter, Graham Fraser, asks Annie Wells – ANNIE WELLS – what she thinks of it. WHY?
      Guess what – she thinks Nicola should stick to the day job – even in her spare time (Holyrood is in recess). But Annie says Nicola won’t be meeting anybody important on this visit.
      She will be meeting the Governor of California, Jerry Brown. Nonentity.
      And addressing the UN. Presumably there won’t be anybody in. And giving a talk to an empty auditorium at Stanford, one of those hick US “universities”.

      They cannot resist saying that Spain doesn’t agree with independence, cutting to Mike Russell to make it look as if he agrees with that. Dearie me. Good material for an anti propaganda class.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39472483

    218. caz-m says:

      Just saw James Naughtie on a BBC News programme.

      Jesus, that brought back some bad memories from IndyRef1.

      He came up here and took over the whole of the Good Morning Scotland show.

      Even Gary Robertson legged it to America when Naughtie moved in.

    219. call me dave says:

      I love wings: Here’s NS & Friend of Gib redrafting that letter.

      Hope link from Revs WoS is OK.

      https://twitter.com/Munchbunch87/status/848656268235603968/photo/1

      Oops! Getting sent to bed… 🙁

    220. caz-m says:

      I wonder who England will go to war with first?

      Will it be Spain or Russia or Scotland?

      Or will England just take on the three of us at the one time.

      What a shower of zoomers the English Establishment are.

      They think they can still threaten countries and get away with it. Well not any more. They have met their match in the EU.

    221. heedtracker says:

      Capella

      That was awful. Even their camera angle of the talking head was totally weird. Spain foreign minister is opposed to independence says that beeb gimp, presumably interpreting what Graun reported today, so from “aghast” Spaniards to “not welcome,”

      “Alfonso Dastis, the Spanish foreign minister, made it clear that the government would not block an independent Scotland’s EU hopes, although he stressed that Madrid would not welcome the disintegration of the UK.”

      Sunday 2 April 2017 07.00 BST

      but at least Spain’s is cooling off a bit now, compared to 2 years ago in Graun reportage, now paradoxically becoming ever more nasty, Scotland wise.

      “The Spanish government has called the prospect of Scottish independence a catastrophe that would worsen the economic slump in Europe and risk the EU’s disintegration.

      In the strongest and most apocalyptic intervention from Europe to date in the increasingly divisive Scottish debate, Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy told parliament in Madrid that all of the EU’s leaders were aghast at the idea of an independent Scotland.”

      Ashifa Kassam in Madrid, Ian Traynor in Brussels
      Wednesday 17 September 2014 14.38 BST

    222. Still Positive says:

      call me dave @ 11.08

      Ha Ha Ha totally brilliant!

      Very O/T Watched ‘I, Daniel Blake’ earlier this evening – totally harrowing. Spent about 30 mins bubbling at the sheer scale of inhumanity. I have now vowed to put at least £10 worth of donations to my local foodbanks every time I do my shopping. Did so in the past but lapsed a bit recently.

      I would defy anyone who watches it and then votes No – this is not the kind of country any decent human being should want to live in. I certainly don’t and it will get worse after we are out of the EU.

    223. Robert Peffers says:

      ronnie anderson says: 2 April, 2017 at 4:55 pm:

      ” … no long noo tae he’s applying fur ah joab as they green keeper at the Pitch n Put in Kelty, they’ll fill in the holes incase Wee Wullie faws doon wan.”

      Nae pitch & Putt in Kelty, Ronnie. Mind ye Wullie micht gae doon ane o the muckle pothole in the roads or even jist doon ane o the auld mineshafts. I have a map of the known pit shafts on the west side of the Main Street between Kelty Cross and the top of Stuart’s Brae, (about 2 hundred yards), and it is just under 40, some just air shafts, though.

      A few years ago a whole block of Council houses just over the road from my step-son’s house had to be demolished as the water that used to run through culverts from Blairadam Forestry under Kelty to Loch Ore in the, “Meedies”, had diverted itself down towards Loch Fittie.

      To understand this I’ll explain – when they built the M90 they dug a cutting through five live burns that used to run down to Loch Ore but had been converted under the village and used as storm water drains.

      So the first problem was they found the M90 was actually floating on the five burns water that was then draining into the cutting on its way downhill to Loch Fittie.

      However, the culverts under Kelty were still carrying storm water from all the drain sievers in the streets. This is the water that carved out a giant cavern under the council houses.

      The new housing scheme built between my cottage and the main village has also had flooding problems, and mineral pollution, from those same cut & blocked off storm water drains.

      So there you go, Wee Wullie is always in danger of another hole suddenly opening up under his feet – unfortunately so are the rest of the villagers.

      There has been coal mines in Kelty since before the Reformation. One record shows that a man named Blackstock bought the mining rights from the Abbott of Dunfermline Abbey. Real local history is something that still affects us all today. We ignore it at our peril.

      “Nice tae see you back online Robert. hoping your keeping well.”

      I’ll never be well again Ronnie, but, “I’m as well as can be expected”, and I make the most of what I have.

      Old Indy campaigners never die – they just fade into the political background.

    224. Swami Backverandah says:

      @ Capella 1.49pm

      Have I missed anything?

      “You’ll make David Cameron cry”

    225. DerekM says:

      Have they gone completely stark raving mad i am going to Madrid in a few weeks i will be taking all my Scotland tops and my kilt with me and advertising i am not British where ever i go.

      Anybody got any “no i am not British” T-shirts written in Spanish i could buy? or a set of bagpipes you could lend me.

    226. boris says:

      Farming subsidy payments will be returned to the UK 2 years from now. Westminster is intent on retaining control and cutting the subsidies. This will most likely result in the farming subsidy allocation being set using the Barnett formulae. But Scotland’s share of the British Landmass is well in excess of 9.5%. Scotland’s allocation should be around 20%

      https://caltonjock.com/2017/04/02/scottish-farming-subsidy-payments-pilfered-by-westminster-and-given-to-obscenely-rich-slipper-farmers-and-absent-landowners-time-to-get-tough-and-demand-they-butt-out/

    227. Not Convinced says:

      In a development that will surprise nobody, the unionists are now changing their story!

      https://archive.is/bxatZ

      “The issue about an independent Scotland’s EU membership has never been about an individual country’s veto.” said a Tory MEP. Which is strange because I seem to recall it being very much about Spain’s (alleged) veto? And indeed if one was to take a cursory glance around a few prominent Conservative equivalents of WoS you’d find it was all about the Spain even in the past week or so!

    228. Elaine S says:

      Where is it we complain to when a politician blatantly lies to the readers? Rennie knows full well unless he has been head dead in cowshit in North East Fife…..this should be dealt with, politcians who knowingly lie should be made to make an apology to its readers, the Sunday Mail should make sure he does this or they are no better and that breaches code of journalism in accuracy or lack of it.

    229. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Robert Peffers Old Indy campaigners never die – they just fade into the political background.

      We’ll no be fading away anytime soon lol , but your info about Kelty mibbe’s wee Wullie will faw doon ah sink hole.

    230. Robert Peffers says:

      @galamcennalath says: 2 April, 2017 at 5:08 pm:

      ” … There will be NO MORE POWERS, only worthless empty promises.”

      There is history right there, galamcennalath.

      Here’s the simple facts laid bare :-

      The Treaty of Union is/was a legal agreement between two equally sovereign kingdoms to unite as equals.

      So on 1 May 1707 the new Union legally began as a bipartite partnership of Equals with a split new parliament of the United Kingdom.

      It chose to sit in the former building that previously housed the Parliament of, the now defunct, Kingdom of England. It was not, though, a continued Parliament of the Kingdom of England.

      Dateline 1 May 1707 – A new Parliament of a union of two Equally Sovereign Kingdoms.

      Dateline 1 May 2017 will witness the De Facto Parliament of the country of England ruling over all four other countries of the Union and, by devolving the powers of that de facto country of England’s parliament, is preventing all non-England MPs from voting on what the de facto parliament of England decides to do because they now operate EVEL.

      So, in spite of every single promise ever made by Westminster, The United Kingdom, as such, ceased to exist almost instantly on 1 May 1707. Not a single Westminster promise of a return of more powers since that day has ever been kept.

      The actual historic records, (Hansard), show that the reverse is in fact the truth. All former powers have been slowly removed from the Kingdom of Scotland that is one of the only two signatories of the Treaty that gave birth to the United Kingdom.

      There is no actual United Kingdom now. If any justice is to come from the European Union it must be made properly aware of the United Kingdom’s past history and its beginnings and the realisation of what it has now actually become.

      The De Facto Parliament of the Country of England.

      If we fail to effectively inform the EU of the stark truth of what the UK legally was, and what it has now become, then we will have failed Scotland, our children’s children – ad infinitem.

    231. Brian Fleming says:

      Re Clipper’s comment about the local elections: if there’s 4 councillors to be elected in his ward, why the F is the SNP only putting up 2 candidates?

    232. Ian Brotherhood says:

      The BBC is issuing sombre, respectful obituaries for Darcus Howe…

      Here, as a reminder of how the BBC really viewed him and his troublesome ilk, is a post-riot interview where the presenter managed to call him ‘Marcus Dowe’, repeatedly, before going on to traduce him.

      Please note the body language of the ‘anchors’ as the interview is put to bed:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzDQCT0AJcw

    233. heedtracker says:

      DerekM says:
      2 April, 2017 at 11:28 pm
      Have they gone completely stark raving mad i am going to Madrid in a few weeks i will be taking all my Scotland tops and my kilt with me and advertising i am not British where ever i go.

      Lest we forget the exact same psychopaths Baghdad shock and awe displays for the enemy, cruise missiles at around $1,000,000 each exploding all over that ancient city full of defenceless civilians and that there world famous precision smart bombing?

    234. ElaineS says:

      I see PCC has changed to IPSO https://www.ipso.co.uk/editors-code-of-practice/ I think Willie Rennie’s knowing lie about the veto and Sunday Mail must have seen mentions as well as footage that Spain would not veto yet they went ahead against the SPJ Sode of Ethics in Journalism https://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp

    235. Capella says:

      @ Swami – that’s a bonus point I think. Will post the updated list tomorrow so we are all singing from the same hymnsheet. First to get a full house gets a round of applause.

    236. heedtracker says:

      Someone on WoS last night said stop posting long comments but and so, if you cant sleep worrying about our psychopath tory masters, red and blue, destroying even more of our world, here’s one from a Scot who wrote for the Murdoch rags but he could turn it on when he wanted to.

      The late AA Gill, just before the unfolding Brexit catostrofuck referendum-

      “It was the woman on Question Time that really did it for me. She was so familiar. There is someone like her in every queue, every coffee shop, outside every school in every parish council in the country. Middle-aged, middle-class, middle-brow, over-made-up, with her National Health face and weatherproof English expression of hurt righteousness, she’s Britannia’s mother-in-law. The camera closed in on her and she shouted: “All I want is my country back. Give me my country back.”

      It was a heartfelt cry of real distress and the rest of the audience erupted in sympathetic applause, but I thought: “Back from what? Back from where?”
      Wanting the country back is the constant mantra of all the outies. Farage slurs it, Gove insinuates it. Of course I know what they mean. We all know what they mean. They mean back from Johnny Foreigner, back from the brink, back from the future, back-to-back, back to bosky hedges and dry stone walls and country lanes and church bells and warm beer and skittles and football rattles and cheery banter and clogs on cobbles. Back to vicars-and-tarts parties and Carry On fart jokes, back to Elgar and fudge and proper weather and herbaceous borders and cars called Morris. Back to victoria sponge and 22 yards to a wicket and 15 hands to a horse and 3ft to a yard and four fingers in a Kit Kat, back to gooseberries not avocados, back to deference and respect, to make do and mend and smiling bravely and biting your lip and suffering in silence and patronising foreigners with pity.

      We all know what “getting our country back” means. It’s snorting a line of the most pernicious and debilitating Little English drug, nostalgia. The warm, crumbly, honey-coloured, collective “yesterday” with its fond belief that everything was better back then, that Britain (England, really) is a worse place now than it was at some foggy point in the past where we achieved peak Blighty. It’s the knowledge that the best of us have been and gone, that nothing we can build will be as lovely as a National Trust Georgian country house, no art will be as good as a Turner, no poem as wonderful as If, no writer a touch on Shakespeare or Dickens, nothing will grow as lovely as a cottage garden, no hero greater than Nelson, no politician better than Churchill, no view more throat-catching than the White Cliffs and that we will never manufacture anything as great as a Rolls-Royce or Flying Scotsman again.

      The dream of Brexit isn’t that we might be able to make a brighter, new, energetic tomorrow, it’s a desire to shuffle back to a regret-curdled inward-looking yesterday. In the Brexit fantasy, the best we can hope for is to kick out all the work-all-hours foreigners and become caretakers to our own past in this self-congratulatory island of moaning and pomposity.
      And if you think that’s an exaggeration of the Brexit position, then just listen to the language they use: “We are a nation of inventors and entrepreneurs, we want to put the great back in Britain, the great engineers, the great manufacturers.” This is all the expression of a sentimental nostalgia. In the Brexiteer’s mind’s eye is the old Pathé newsreel of Donald Campbell, of John Logie Baird with his television, Barnes Wallis and his bouncing bomb, and Robert Baden-Powell inventing boy scouts in his shed.

      All we need, their argument goes, is to be free of the humourless Germans and spoilsport French and all their collective liberalism and reality. There is a concomitant hope that if we manage to back out of Europe, then we’ll get back to the bowler-hatted 1950s and the Commonwealth will hold pageants, fireworks displays and beg to be back in the Queen Empress’s good books again. Then New Zealand will sacrifice a thousand lambs, Ghana will ask if it can go back to being called the Gold Coast and Britain will resume hand-making Land Rovers and top hats and Sheffield plate teapots.

      There is a reason that most of the people who want to leave the EU are old while those who want to remain are young: it’s because the young aren’t infected with Bisto nostalgia. They don’t recognise half the stuff I’ve mentioned here. They’ve grown up in the EU and at worst it’s been neutral for them.
      The under-thirties want to be part of things, not aloof from them. They’re about being joined-up and counted. I imagine a phrase most outies identify with is “women’s liberation has gone too far”. Everything has gone too far for them, from political correctness — well, that’s gone mad, hasn’t it? — to health and safety and gender-neutral lavatories. Those oldies, they don’t know if they’re coming or going, what with those newfangled mobile phones and kids on Tinder and Grindr. What happened to meeting Miss Joan Hunter Dunn at the tennis club? And don’t get them started on electric hand dryers, or something unrecognised in the bagging area, or Indian call centres , or the impertinent computer asking for a password that has both capitals and little letters and numbers and more than eight digits.

      Brexit is the fond belief that Britain is worse now than at some point in the foggy past where we achieved peak Blighty
      We listen to the Brexit lot talk about the trade deals they’re going to make with Europe after we leave, and the blithe insouciance that what they’re offering instead of EU membership is a divorce where you can still have sex with your ex. They reckon they can get out of the marriage, keep the house, not pay alimony, take the kids out of school, stop the in-laws going to the doctor, get strict with the visiting rights, but, you know, still get a shag at the weekend and, obviously, see other people on the side.

      Really, that’s their best offer? That’s the plan? To swagger into Brussels with Union Jack pants on and say: “ ’Ello luv, you’re looking nice today. Would you like some?”
      When the rest of us ask how that’s really going to work, leavers reply, with Terry-Thomas smirks, that “they’re going to still really fancy us, honest, they’re gagging for us. Possibly not Merkel, but the bosses of Mercedes and those French vintners and cheesemakers, they can’t get enough of old John Bull. Of course they’re going to want to go on making the free market with two backs after we’ve got the decree nisi. Makes sense, doesn’t it?”
      Have no doubt, this is a divorce. It’s not just business, it’s not going to be all reason and goodwill. Like all divorces, leaving Europe would be ugly and mean and hurtful, and it would lead to a great deal of poisonous xenophobia and racism, all the niggling personal prejudice that dumped, betrayed and thwarted people are prey to. And the racism and prejudice are, of course, weak points for us. The tortuous renegotiation with lawyers and courts will be bitter and vengeful, because divorces always are and, just in passing, this sovereignty thing we’re supposed to want back so badly, like Frodo’s ring, has nothing to do with you or me. We won’t notice it coming back, because we didn’t notice not having it in the first place.

      You won’t wake up on June 24 and think: “Oh my word, my arthritis has gone! My teeth are suddenly whiter! Magically, I seem to know how to make a soufflé and I’m buff with the power of sovereignty.” This is something only politicians care about; it makes not a jot of difference to you or me if the Supreme Court is a bunch of strangely out-of-touch old gits in wigs in Westminster or a load of strangely out-of-touch old gits without wigs in Luxembourg. What matters is that we have as many judges as possible on the side of personal freedom.

      Personally, I see nothing about our legislators in the UK that makes me feel I can confidently give them more power. The more checks and balances politicians have, the better for the rest of us. You can’t have too many wise heads and different opinions. If you’re really worried about red tape, by the way, it’s not just a European problem. We’re perfectly capable of coming up with our own rules and regulations and we have no shortage of jobsworths. Red tape may be annoying, but it is also there to protect your and my family from being lied to, poisoned and cheated.

      The first “X” I ever put on a voting slip was to say yes to the EU. The first referendum was when I was 20 years old. This one will be in the week of my 62nd birthday. For nearly all my adult life, there hasn’t been a day when I haven’t been pleased and proud to be part of this great collective. If you ask me for my nationality, the truth is I feel more European than anything else. I am part of this culture, this European civilisation. I can walk into any gallery on our continent and completely understand the images and the stories on the walls. These people are my people and they have been for thousands of years. I can read books on subjects from Ancient Greece to Dark Ages Scandinavia, from Renaissance Italy to 19th-century France, and I don’t need the context or the landscape explained to me. The music of Europe, from its scales and its instruments to its rhythms and religion, is my music. The Renaissance, the rococo, the Romantics, the impressionists, gothic, baroque, neoclassicism, realism, expressionism, futurism, fauvism, cubism, dada, surrealism, postmodernism and kitsch were all European movements and none of them belongs to a single nation.

      There is a reason why the Chinese are making fake Italian handbags and the Italians aren’t making fake Chinese ones. This European culture, without question or argument, is the greatest, most inventive, subtle, profound, beautiful and powerful genius that was ever contrived anywhere by anyone and it belongs to us. Just look at my day job — food. The change in food culture and pleasure has been enormous since we joined the EU, and that’s no coincidence. What we eat, the ingredients, the recipes, may come from around the world, but it is the collective to and fro of European interests, expertise and imagination that has made it all so very appetising and exciting. The restaurant was a European invention, naturally. The first one in Paris was called The London Bridge.

      Culture works and grows through the constant warp and weft of creators, producers, consumers, intellectuals and instinctive lovers. You can’t dictate or legislate for it, you can just make a place that encourages it and you can truncate it. You can make it harder and more grudging, you can put up barriers and you can build walls, but why on earth would you? This collective culture, this golden civilisation grown on this continent over thousands of years, has made everything we have and everything we are, why would you not want to be part of it?
      I understand that if we leave we don’t have to hand back our library ticket for European civilisation, but why would we even think about it? In fact, the only ones who would are those old, philistine scared gits. Look at them, too frightened to join in.”

      RIP AA Gill, you magnificent tory bastard.

    237. Elaine S says:

      Thought I’d give it a go and put in complaint against the inaccuracy of that Sunday Mail article, Rennie for blatantly lying and Sunday Mail not checking it out to see if the facts were correct..will see if IPSO is any better than PCC, this was a much easier form to fill in, PCC one was a nightmare and I think the whole procedure was aimed at dragging it out over months with the odd email.hoping you’d get bored then they’d still get away with the inaccuracy. Will see what comes of this.

    238. Swami Backverandah says:

      cheers Capella
      I’m currently in an antipodean timezone and often don’t see replies etc, so apols to anyone i’ve missed.
      Look forward to the bingo list.

    239. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Brian Fleming @ 00:06,

      It depends on how well, from local knowledge, they believe they can do in that ward. This is one they evidently reckon is likely to be one of the few where Labour can still manage significant support.

      If a party fields more candidates than its support warrants, there is a risk that votes can spread too thinly with the consequent risk that it suffers greater losses than it would by fielding less.

      It’s a tricky calculation that needs to be made.

      What you perhaps don’t see though is the big picture. In many 4-vacancy Glasgow wards Labour are only fielding one (!) candidate, since they evidently feel that can’t even risk two.

      On the contrary, the SNP are in some cases fielding two candidates in 3-vacancy wards! They are evidently far more confident, but are applying their knowledge intelligently.

      You may have missed my earlier posting but in Glasgow the SNP are fielding a strong slate of 56 candidates, whereas Labour are only fielding 43. By contrast, the Greens and Tories are both fielding one candidate per ward (some largely token), while the LieDems can only manage to cover 20 out of the 23 wards.

      My impression, looking on from the outside, is that the SNP have this one just about right.

    240. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @heedtracker –

      🙂

      I’m sure he’d take no great pleasure in saying ‘told ye so’, but hey, he’s better off out of it.

      We, on the other hand…

      🙁

    241. Dr Jim says:

      I see the BBC is “accidently” mistranslating Spanish into English again and rearranging the words to suit themselves

      It’s just accident after accident with the BBC

      Try translating this word BBC “Conos” I can’t do the wee accent thingy over the n on my typey keys but a commonly used word the length and breadth of Spain applicable to the BBC

    242. Valerie says:

      @Heed

      Thanks, every word of that AA Gill piece is pure gold. What a writer he was, although when I read his reviews, I often thought he was cruel, but I know he was respected, and it was his trademark.

      The piece seems so appropriate today, and written by someone steeped in the London elite, but clear eyed about the failings of Little England and the Brexit bandwagon.

      All of this period must be having an effect on those we have to convince, surely? And, it will get worse.

      I suppose it must play out for some to wake up.

      Just blocked a Maths teacher, Labour, who, in return for me linking him to a Richard Murphy piece on Gers, gave me a link to dog food guy.

      They are a fricking cult! I really worry about folk like that who have no truck with facts.

    243. David says:

      Cheers, Heedtracker, a long read but well worth it!

    244. call me dave says:

      I’m back up again can’t sleep… 🙁

      Had peek at the shortbread web site and nothing on Spain or Gib but I was alarmed to hear that the red deer herd is being badly managed… (breaking news).

      Still I have Good moaning Scotland to feed me my breakfast porridge and expect all the news where we are. Aye right!

      Kitchen, egg, “boiled for 4 mins from the moment the bubbles appear on the top” , some toast & tea.

      Quiz! Who said that quote? ” ” no prizes.

    245. Swami Backverandah says:

      Will there be a national phone-in to name the new war with Spain?

      Will Boris et al commission the new Royal yacht as a first-line defence at Portsmouth?

      Will May repurchase the cluster bombs back from the Saudis on her trip?

      Will Hilary Benn and Co vote to bomb the shite out of the rebel forces on Gibraltar?

    246. TheItalianJob says:

      @Heedtracker

      Thanks for that article by AA Gill. How appropriate that article pre ref he wrote. Many moons ago I would read his restaurant reviews but as I no longer buy newspapers I would have never caught this article.

      Like Gill I voted to enter the EU as a young man and as a middle aged man voted to remain.

      Only way left for us now is to get our Independence so we can move forward rather than as Gill says go back to something that is no longer there.

    247. TheItalianJob says:

      @Swami

      Aye Hilary Benn.

      No doubt he will make a speech in the HoC to get the troops rallied to war. Just as he did to get the bombing started in Syria. Got a standing ovation for his speech. Two faced tosser.

    248. Swami Backverandah says:

      @TheItalianJob

      BennMk2

      “We will fight them on the Costas” 😀

    249. Dal Riata says:

      @heedtracker

      Aye, nice one there with the A.A. Gill article – and how correct was he with that!

      Pathetic Little England disappearing up its own fundament.

    250. Jim says:

      AAWWW ….. Poor wee Wullie, he’s made an erse o’ himsel again- has he no seen The Herald?!

    251. Jim says:

      @Swami

      With our zimmer frames and our eggNchips!

    252. Dal Riata says:

      Meanwhile, in BBCScotlandInUnion-land we find that: “Spain has confirmed that it would not initially [sic] block any attempt from Scotland to join the EU after Brexit.”

      Is that right, aye?!

      So, BBCScotlandInUnion-land, with its use of “initially” is implying that Spain wouldn’t? block, or veto, Scotland’s application to join the EU after Brexit… BUT, that it’s more than likely that it will later on in the discussions…

      Funny that, because if we look ATL up there ^ we find that he actually is quoted thus:

      “But asked directly whether Spain would veto an independent Scotland joining the EU, Dastis said: “No, we wouldn’t.””

      I don’t have any Spanish language skills so I haven’t read what Dastis actually said in his own language, but I haven’t seen that “initially” used anywhere else where his statements have been translated into English.

      So, is this? BBCScotlandInUnion-land finding itself mistaken in its translation, or… deliberately misquoting/misreporting/lying…?

      If it’s what I think it is, then it’s another fucking disgrace perpetrated on the people of Scotland by Scotland’s biggest ‘neutral’ broadcaster.

    253. Stoker says:

      So, Scotland’s First Minister has been invited to give a speech at Stanford University in California.

      During her 5-day trip to the States she will also be meeting the Governor of California for talks on climate change. Her visit will also be used to promote trade and investment.

      Meanwhile, in other news, a US technology firm is to invest £3.8m in its specialist research centre in Edinburgh, creating 12 new jobs and protecting 30 existing jobs.

      Over in Holyrood the back-door-failures demand that the First Minister gets “back to the day job.”

      I don’t know about anyone else but if that’s the FM avoiding the day job i can’t wait for her to get started, eh! She’s done far more for Scotland in her relatively short tenure than every failure in Holyrood put together ever have.

    254. Stoker says:

      In complete contrast to our First Minister, Treeza Mayhem is off on a jolly to discuss how to kill more unsuspecting civilians whilst improving her sabre-rattling skills.

    255. Basque_Spaniards says:

      What spanish politicians says is that if Scotland fullfill all requirements in order to enter in EU, Spain will never veto.
      The best example is Turkey: that country has tried several times enter in EU but has been rejected because doesnt fullfill them..

    256. Socrates MacSporran says:

      I enjoyed Heedtracker’s AA Gill piece. He was an amazing writer, even if he did have some dodgy friends such as that loud-mouthed “petrol head” from Doncaster.

      Gill, of course, was born in Edinbrgh, but removed to that there Lunnin when very young. I like to think enough Scottish air was ingested to make a difference.

      Anent we will fight them on the Costas. The flower of England’s youth, to be fair, has been fighting (usually with each other) on the Costas for a number of years now.

      I don’t think the Spanish police will be too-bothered about them.

    257. Ken500 says:

      May doing illegal deals with the most depot, absolute monarchy in the work. An illegal regime which does not recognise human rights. The Tories and the Saudis. A partnership made in hell. Both illegal regimes of despot monarchy. There are no elections in a Saudi Arabia. The electoral,system in the UK. Is flawed and corrupt. Gerrymandering, corrupt pollsters. Corrupt non declared illegal funding. Breaking electoral Law.

      The Tory committed electoral fraud in 31constituencies. They illegally cheated and lied to win a Referendum . They illegally cheated and lied to win an election. Then they illegally cheated and lied to win a Referendum. UKIP are a bunch of crooks. They have been commiting electoral fraud for years. Farague has been illegally, corruptly funding a political party with public money for years. Illegal tax evaded funding. Illegal obtained £Millions.

      The Tories are illegally starving more children. 1/4 Million more (women) and children are now being left in poverty because of May’s and the rest of the psycho bastards policies. The Tory Party evil and nasty. Tax evading crooks most of them should be in jail. Starve vulnerable people to death. They are responsible for maiming and killing millions of innocent people world wide.

      May is absolutely useless along with the rest of the Westminster unionists. Cruel, nasty evil people without a slight care or remorse for people. Hard hearted and intransigent. They are a complete and utter disgrace. People are starving and dying as they illegally waste £Trns of public money on death and destruction. They really are appalling. May mucks up in every office, causing the death of innocent people. There is a cover up. Kept secret under the Official Secrets Act. A ‘D’ notice is issued. Then another official is blamed and they lose their job.

      Osbourne 6 jobs, illegal, high tax regime on the Oil & Gas sector cost Scotland 120,000 jobs and £Billions of revenue. The Union costs Scotland £20Billion a year which could be better managed. Tory/Unionist mismanagement and illegal activities. They can’t count or read a balance sheet.with Oxford degrees, rank and privilege. Buying themselves degrees and privilege to embezzle from the public purse and illegal tax evade. That is why they want out of the EU. The Tories and their associates are multiple, manipulating total, liars. .

      The Tories are illegally wasting £Billions. £500Billion on Hinkley Point, HS2, Heathrow and Trident. All a total waste of public money, with more safer, cheaper, credible, renewable alternatives, the Tory/Unionists are cutting the NHS/Education and welfare to the bone. Killing and maiming millions of innocent people, causing the worst migration crisis since 11WW and borrowing and wasting public money. Getting the UK into even more £Trns of debt. So the Tories and their associates can continued to tax evade and embezzle more public money. Brexit over a cliff of greed and ignorance.

      The Tories are now threatening a Rock. Hard hearted psycho bastards. They are a menace to decent society. An embarrassment of corruption. How much longer can thus farce continue. Making people anxious and ill. The Tories mess is a complete and utter disaster. EU membership is the best bargain any country can get in the world. Leaving the EU would be a complete and utter unnecessary disaster.

      Graeme Smith the Herald editor is appealing for funding as the readers tank. The Scotsman is in it’s last legs. 2019 reconstructed debts should have an affect. These people never learn. They made their bed. Now they can lie on it. Printing a load of nonsense. When there is another spectacular alternative. Flying just like Wings above the rest. Still more funding to come, it will be over the line.

      Well done Rev Stu. Absolutely brilliant, thanks a billion.

    258. Robert Louis says:

      I see the democratically elected First Minister of Scotland Nicola Sturgeon, is working hard at carrying out her duties, by representing Scotland around the world, and promoting Scotland’s businesses and skills to potential investors in the USA.

      Meanwhile the lying ignoramus Ruth Davdison, who wasn’t elected as First Minister of Scotland, is moaning about somnething or other. She really needs to cheer up a bit

    259. mumsyhugs says:

      Good grief – Good Morning Britain actually have a factually correct banner at the bottom of the screen – “Spain will not stop an independent Scotland joining the EU”.

      Pass the smelling salts and pick me up off the floor!

    260. Hamish100 says:

      Ruthie is preparing for war. Donning her tank to head for the Gib.

      Unfortunately for her she has to drive through Johnny Foreigner country to get there. Now if only she was in the EU should could travel freely!

      The BBC suppression of the story that the Spanish won’t stop Scotland just proves to me the direct political intervention of the RUK state broadcaster.

      Let’s call the bosses back to Holyrood to explain. If nothing else it would be nice to see them squirm.

    261. Ken500 says:

      Gibraltar. UK tax haven. Centre of bucket shops. Crooks who were illegally cheating UK tax payers out of £Million. Pensioners etc losing their life saving on valueless shares being targeted by crooks in Gibraltar. Hacking into their data and personal details etc. The authorities saying there was nothing they could do about it. It was out of UK jurisdiction. The Westminster useless non entities.

    262. Grouse Beater says:

      Brit Nats should be more concerned about Gibraltar applying for Scottish sovereignty:

      Gibraltar not British: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-aI8
      Spain turn the screws on exPats: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-7vq

    263. Capella says:

      Has the BBC asked some minor opposition MP for their opinion on Theresa May’s foreign trip? If so, I missed it.
      Shouldn’t the PM be at home doing the day job? It’s not as if there isn’t plenty to do, sorting out the ENHS and their appalling shortage of teachers.
      Just for balance of course.

      And what is Spain’s view of BREXIT?

    264. Ken500 says:

      40Million Scottish disaporia. They had to leave Scotland their homeland, and migrate, because of Westminster illegal, crooked lies and intransigence.. 10% of US voters are of Scottish descent. Enough to swing a election. Scotland has friends and allies the world over.

    265. Macart says:

      Yoons have had a pretty torrid weekend to be sure. Spookily the only folk who don’t appear to have mentioned Gibraltar in the past few days have been the Spanish themselves.

      The EUs reply to May’s letter was measured, pointed and legally the required response on all fronts. Of course they were required to mention a UK sovereign territory right off the coast of the continent and the other party who had any kind of disputed claim.

      May’s excuse for not including specific mention of Gibraltar in her own missive? According to soundbite meeja, it was simply taken for granted that the Gib was not up for discussion. Which is kinda, y’know, scary that they considered a disputed piece of med geography wouldn’t be included in negotiatons about exiting the EU.

      Professionalism and statesmanship apparently not taught at Eton anymore… (cough).

      I mean they’re willing to negotiate using asset rich Scottish territorial waters and went to great pains to say exactly that in their Brexit white paper. So why not some other chunk of real estate?

      On the Gib though. Whether the poor folk living there like it or not they are and will be used as pawns in international politics. They are being used exactly as such right now by both sides and will continue to be used by one side or the other as suits the required pressure which needs to be applied. I can only say to them, welcome to our world and no you never get used to it.

      They are (near as anyone can see) about to lose their EU status and if it suits the EU members or UK gov, your votes will NOT be taken into consideration. You may get lucky and get some sort of preferential status. In fact I hope you do for purely selfish reasons of my own. How and ever be prepared for your world to change and probably not in a good way. At the very least I’d say Gibraltar will enjoy the unenviable status of being the unpopular and uninvited neighbour in the med. At the very least.

      As for expats the length and breadth of Spain and Italy? Watched a report this moring already where apparently attitudes have begun to change toward the UKs silver surfers and not in a good way. Watched a sniffy UK solicitor (who helps retirees relocate to their sun kissed villa of choice), being interviewed on the Beeb. She was extremely offended that the Italians have begun referring to such expats as immigrants and the term used is apparently more commonly associated with refugees.

      Oh the horror!

      I suspect that the exact repercussions of Brexit means Brexit and out means out, is suddenly beginning to dawn on some folks at this point.

    266. Orri says:

      Surely a pedantic answer to a list of European countries would include England, Scotland and Wales but not the UK.

      Also, I have to reluctantly agree that it was never really about a Spanish Veto. It was always about a specific member of the EU who have just voted to remove any chance they had of a veto. The EU aren’t going to allow the UK or rUK to dictate who can join now that A50 has been formally submitted.

      Finally in Northern Ireland voters rarely go beyond 5 preferences and on average give between 3 and 4. Let’s assume that “boke” means if it sickens you to the stomach don’t vote for someone.

    267. McBoxheid says:

      Bob Mack says:
      2 April, 2017 at 12:20 pm

      “Rule Brittania, Brittania rules the waves,
      Gibraltar never never never shall be slaves”

      ________________________________________________

      “Rude Britnatia, Britnatia waves the rules,
      Gibraltar never really was yours to rule!”

    268. Dorothy Devine says:

      OK I am confused . My ward has 3 councillors to be elected.

      Easy to find the three for which I will vote 2 SNP and 1 Green thereafter I wouldn’t give you tuppence for the other candidates .

      so , is it OK not to ‘vote ’til I boak ‘? Just vote for the three?

    269. You never see Jackson Carlaw and Anabel Goldie in the same room at the same time.
      If I had closed my eyes yesterday when Carlaw was on Brewer’s Sunday Politics add on, I swear that I was listening to the good Baroness, Deputy Lord lieutenant of Renfrewshire.
      I look forward to the day when Andra Neil announces, ‘It’s just gone 11.30. We say good bye to viewers in Scotland..for the last time ever.’
      I note the Lib Dems and Labour refused an invite to appear.
      Has Rennie gone into hiding? He would have been laughed off the screen.
      Have Dugdale and Davidson hightailed it over the pond to RAND for a re-programme seminar?
      Not one word on the savage benefits/pensions/disability cuts imposed by the Blue Tories this week.
      Brewer, it’s time you stopped banging on about Independence and concentrated on the day job: it is small wonder that Patrick Harvie eventually burst out laughing mid interview.
      £13 billion cuts by Jackson Carlaw’s Party and it doesn’t warrant a mention on Brewer’s watch.
      Mike Russell against the magnificent backdrop of the Kyles of Bute played Brewer like a tiddler in Whiteinch yachting pond.
      The Yoons are not even turning up in TV studios any more. They have nowhere to go. The UK is now an indefensible farce.
      May and the Four Brexiteers better ca’ canny over Gibraltar. Those Spanish guys know their onions. I’ll get ma coat.

    270. schrodingers cat says:

      Luckily we’ve spent the past decade infiltrating Spain with our pensioners, who will rise up when the war comes.

    271. admiral says:

      Dorothy Devine says:

      3 April, 2017 at 8:57 am

      OK I am confused . My ward has 3 councillors to be elected.

      Easy to find the three for which I will vote 2 SNP and 1 Green thereafter I wouldn’t give you tuppence for the other candidates .

      so , is it OK not to ‘vote ’til I boak ‘? Just vote for the three?
      Dorothy – my understanding is that you can vote for as many or as few candidates as you wish. Don’t even look at the Yoon names on the ballot paper – this is probably sufficient to count as a vote for them! 🙂

    272. schrodingers cat says:

      Dorothy Devine

      what ward are you in?

    273. Breeks says:

      I had to chuckle with one tweet I saw yesterday…

      “NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INTERVENTION”… lol.

      Monty Python just keeps giving.

      Not sure Brexit is part of a Monty Python script or that other 70’s series Tales of the Unexpected, complete with anticipation of the horrible twist at the end.

    274. Robert Kerr says:

      Perhaps the word is coños?

      I have in my possession a book “Hitler Triumphant”

      https://www.amazon.com/Hitler-Triumphant-Alternate-Decisions-World/dp/1853676993.

      Chapter 3 is “The Spanish Gambit” and shows how indefensible Gibraltar really was then.

      And now? Ah yes. But will the US give Teresa the launch codes and targeting data for Madrid?

      Spain is a member of NATO. “Article Five of the treaty states that if an armed attack occurs against one of the member states, it should be considered an attack against all members, and other members shall assist the attacked member, with armed forces if necessary”

      What time zone are these Tories on? Empire 2.0?

    275. pipinghot says:

      LMFAO Saw interview on the BBC yesterday with retired pensioner britnat type living in Spain, who agrees with BREXIT cos we have too many immigrants. The Irony 🙂

    276. Dorothy Devine says:

      Admiral, and Shrodingers cat , I am in Victoria Park ward and thanks for the advice Admiral – you are probably right about ‘even looking at them’ – I will not even look ‘askance’!

    277. woosie says:

      Interesting sequence; Barroso says Spain will veto Scotland. Scotland lose referendum. Barroso gets controversial top job. Spain says they won’t veto Scotland. England declares war with Spain.

      I’m off to Lanzarote on Saturday. Must get some new Scotia tops!

    278. Incidentally, the Prop Department of BBC Scotland’s soap opera ‘River City’ must be getting fed up with the producers of ‘Reporting Scotland’ and ‘Sunday Politics’ borrowing distressed display cabinets and burst sofas and dumping them on Govanhill pavements as a graphic illustration, because we thick viewers need all the help we can get, about how run down the FM’s constituency is because she has been posted missing by a holocaust denier and accused of neglecting her day job.
      Brewer’s Yoon show on Sunday did a wee piece on the impending LA Bun Fight ( or should it be ‘Bin’ Fight?).
      Is it an ongoing staged anti Sturgeon photo-propaganda wheeze, or does the Cleansing Department supervisor whose area this route covers need a boot up the erse for dereliction of duty.
      The sitting New Labour Councillor Soryia Siddique got a wee spot.
      It’s got nothing to do with her and Frank the Pieman’s GCC Administration?
      It’s nothing to do with the full time Glasgow Executives in charge of Refuse Collection or Housing on six figures salaries.
      It’s Nicola Sturgeon’s ‘day job’; it’s all that bad EssEnnPee’s fault.
      The Day of Reckoning is at hand for these freeloaders.

    279. Robert Peffers says:

      @Brian Fleming says: 3 April, 2017 at 12:06 am:

      “Re Clipper’s comment about the local elections: if there’s 4 councillors to be elected in his ward, why the F is the SNP only putting up 2 candidates?”

      I’m sure those with more expertise on such things will have answered you already, Brian, but my take on this is that the SNP Constituency Association canvassers will have a pretty good idea of the numbers of their likely voters.

      So if they put up too many candidates the votes will be spread across all their candidates and could see none of them elected. If the SNP stand too many candidates another party who put up just one candidate would get all their supporters vote for that one candidate who thus may get elected.

      Then, by the transferrable voting system, the unionist parties could get all the other seats with the overall larger vote for the combined SNP candidates being bigger.

    280. Soutron says:

      @Dorothy Devine Here’s a link to James Kelly’s recent post on the STV system/upcoming council elections and why it’s best to use as many votes as you can stomach (not voting is the same as abstaining).. http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2017/03/a-bit-more-on-value-of-using-all-or.html

    281. galamcennalath says:

      Dorothy Devine says:

      Easy to find the three for which I will vote 2 SNP and 1 Green thereafter I wouldn’t give you tuppence for the other candidates .

      It’s STV, a single vote which gets transferred.

      Imagine your vote wasn’t needed for the first SNP winner and so was ‘carried forward’. Then the second SNP and the Green are dumped in the following rounds. This is quite possible.

      If you only vote for three, then your vote is lost because there is nowhere left to transfer it to.

      Best to hold your nose and rank the other candidates too. It might be worth looking at the independents, what type of minority administrations might they support? Are they really Tories, as many seem to be?

    282. mike cassidy says:

      That man Gill could write.

      Why doesn’t the BBC just rename ‘Question Time’ “Bisto Nostalgia”?

    283. stu mac says:

      @Capella says
      =================

      Glasgow University is massive organisation by Scottish standards, with thousands of staff plus folk not regular staff but associated in some way. That includes folk of all political persuasions (including pro-Indy) and in any large group like that you’ll find a few dodgy people. So, no, nothing sinister is going on at Glasgow University and you only give unionists an excuse to label us “conspiracy theory nuts” by making statements like that.

    284. Robert Peffers says:

      @Ian Brotherhood says: 3 April, 2017 at 12:58 am:

      “I’m sure he’d take no great pleasure in saying ‘told ye so’, but hey, he’s better off out of it.
      We, on the other hand…”

      Yeah! Ian, As usual these days I’m playing catch-up with the comments, but this morning I thought to myself that a great soundbite slogan for the coming Indy ref would be:-

      “Come on Scotland – Get up and go.”

    285. schrodingers cat says:

      Ward 12 Victoria Park
      1.Feargal Dalton SNP (Nice guy, @FeargalDalton)
      2.Deirdre Parkinson SNP
      3.Allan Faulds greens
      4.Matt McGrath STUC
      Matthew McGrath Scottish TUSC council candidate for Victoria Park Ward Glasgow. Matthew is an NHS worker, member of Unite, was an organiser of the Socialist campaign for independence

      The rest are yoons

    286. Robert Peffers says:

      @Dr Jim says: 3 April, 2017 at 1:06 am:
      ” … “Conos” I can’t do the wee accent thingy over the n on my typey keys but a commonly used word the length and breadth of Spain applicable to the BBC”

      Here’s a wee tip for you Dr Jim.

      If you are using windows the easy way to get non-keyboard letters and symbols into your text is to use the Character Map, (charmap).

      Just type, charmap into the start menu search box and it will pop up.

      You can select any particular font set that is on your machine and it has wee boxes to select and copy the required letter or character to the clipboard. Then you go back to your text and paste it where you want it.

      BTW: There are the font sets for Webdings and wingdings that give you wee drawings and shapes. Mind you some of the places you try to use charmap to insert such characters are limited to the font sets of that particular program and will only allow the use of the font set by the program. Here’s an example – ?.

    287. Albert Herring says:

      @Dr Jim

      On a Mac it’s alt-n then n = ñ.

    288. CapnAndy. says:

      BuchanLoon.
      I have no doubt that was the plan. To trade the fishing rights for silence and no hassle with Gibraltar. However the fishing rights are off the table as with the possibility of independence they are no use whatsoever as a bargaining chip.

    289. orri says:

      @galamcennalath

      If you’re vote is more than what’s needed it’s not transferred. It’s split. So is every other vote for whoever gets elected. That’s where calling it a Single Transferable Vote is catching people out.

      If 125% of the required votes are cast for a candidate then 4/5ths of all of them are used up electing them. The remaining 1/5ths are then transferred to the next preferences, if any. That last part is where if you don’t fill in all your preferences some of your vote might be lost. However my point is that if any of your vote is used in electing someone then a fraction of all of the votes cast for them is then passed on to someone else.

      In reality I’d say what we’ve got is a single divisible vote. How it get’s divided is up to how all ballots, including that one, are laid out.

    290. Dorothy Devine says:

      Thanks everyone and I’m off to read young James.

    291. Bill McLean says:

      https://marksimonfrankland.blogspot.co.uk/2017/04/weve-asked-nicely-for-indyref-2-an Great blog by Marksimonfrankland.
      Hope the link works – it’s first time!

    292. Ian Brotherhood says:

      🙂

      Yesterday afternoon this Glasgow Live poll was 68% ‘No’ to Scottish indy.

      Have a swatch where it is now…

      https://archive.is/qnhd0

    293. Gary45% says:

      The English Empire “Just add Bisto” , its kind of catchy.

    294. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood the poll wont work when the link is Archived

    295. Fred says:

      Very good “Long Letter” in today’s National by Dr Mireille Pouget.

    296. DerekM says:

      @ woosie

      Yea and remember to mention you are Scottish not British before ordering food or drinks.

    297. fletch49er says:

      Poor old deluded Smiffy from the Bash Street Kids a.k.a. wee Willie Rennie



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