The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


An apology to Gordon Brown

Posted on March 10, 2014 by

Earlier today we may have given some readers the impression that Gordon Brown’s six-point proposals for the constitutional future of Scotland within the UK were weak, vague and essentially meaningless waffle.

However, now that we’ve seen the recommendations (in a report rather egotistically entitled “Campbell II”) also produced today by Sir Menzies Campbell of the Liberal Democrats, we’ve realised that by comparison Mr Brown has delivered a masterwork of comprehensive, considered and well-thought-out detail.

menziescampbell1

Get a load – and we do mean a load – of this, readers.

The seven findings, as identified by the BBC and translated by us, are:

————————————————————————————————–

The 2015 Queen’s Speech should include provisions to strengthen Scotland’s powers.

There should be new powers of some sort at some point.

Political parties should commit to this in their UK election manifestoes.

The Westminster parties should promise new powers of some sort at some point.

The UK government should look at all options to make the plans a reality.

There should be new powers of some sort at some point somehow.

The Scottish Government should make available its referendum research to inform the Campbell II proposals.

(No idea, sorry. How can you “inform” proposals that have already been made? What “referendum research” are we talking about exactly?)

The Scottish Parliament should ensure Scotland’s new fiscal body can cope with further devolved financial powers after a referendum ‘No’ vote.

Holyrood should be ready to have new powers of some sort at some point somehow.

The Secretary of State for Scotland should convene a meeting within 30 days of a ‘No’ vote to secure consensus for the devolution of more powers.

The Westminster parties should definitely have some kind of conversation about giving Scotland some new powers of some sort at some point somehow.

Further devolution of tax powers should be made through a further Scotland Act.

There should be new powers of some sort at some point.

————————————————————————————————–

Well, we’re glad THAT’S all been cleared up. The Scottish people can surely now be in no doubt whatsoever about the outcome of a No vote. Time well spent, Sir Menzies.

Print Friendly

    2 Trackbacks/Pingbacks

    1. 10 03 14 21:05

      More powers evitable | Arc of Prosperity

    2. 11 03 14 13:15

      Two stooges enter, and promptly exit, stage right | Alister Rutherford

    173 to “An apology to Gordon Brown”

    1. Kendomacaroonbar says:

      erm, Are you in any way connected to this chappie, Rev ?

    2. Drew says:

      Jam 19th September 2014, please. Vote yes.

    3. Stuart Black says:

      So, let’s see, are there some sort of new powers in the offing? Maybe?

      Thanks Ming, I’m reassured. Back to bed now…

    4. Annibale says:

      “Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing…”

    5. Bigdrone says:

      How do you spell ‘PISH!’ Are we to assume that the 3 ‘unionist-ish parties’ are going to agree on common ground and boldly go forward spreading jam all around. Not even in governmant and very unlikely to be anytime soon and no gaurantee or promise (do they know what that is?) of anything…………..got it ‘PISH!

    6. wullie says:

      IMHO daft auld second class englishman

    7. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      The funeral bells are tolling from the Cathedral next door.

      The Union’s tea is oot.

      Campbell used to be my MP, when I lived in the Howe. He gave cheque to a local sports club and claimed it on expenses.

    8. Roll_On_2014 says:

      Ming why wade through all that crap when we can just vote yes.

      Yes gives us what it says on the tin.

    9. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      What is Blue and red and smells of pish?

    10. John Gibson says:

      “There should be new powers of some sort at some point somehow”

      Aye… I’m gonny vote for that. Not.

    11. Murray McCallum says:

      Menzies should wear his old Olympic blazer and try and cadge a lift on the plane to Rio.

      Sack of shi* race.

    12. Triangular Ears says:

      I can barely tolerate listening to him with his arrogance and, as you have pointed out, ego.

      Surely people must know by now that LibDems just stand for talking about everything and doing nothing.

    13. Training Day says:

      This must be the ‘train of thought’ which Campbell pompuously maintained the listening proles would have difficulty following on GMS this morning.

      Well, he was right.

    14. Busy-Bee says:

      Blah di Blah di LibLab Blah…

    15. Heiskir says:

      Waffle from the ‘Ming dinna stay'(tks to @bigbuachaille for that one)

    16. Seasick Dave says:

      Should does NOT equal will.

    17. kim baraclough says:

      well I’m astonished that somehow at sometime we’re getting some sort of new powers someone said! !!! canny wait tae vote aye somehow! !!!

    18. Gillie says:

      Gordy and Ming, yesterday’s men both promising jam tomorrow.

    19. Seasick Dave says:

      Never trust a Campbell.

    20. Mary Bruce says:

      Thanks Ming, for confirming that a No vote offers more uncertainty than yes one does.

    21. pa_broon74 says:

      Campbell is a dusty old dodderer hiding behind the imaginary facade of statesmanship elder politicians like to think their advanced years gives them.

      It reads just like how he sounds: very boring with nothing new, original or certain. They talk about uncertainty coming from the Yes campaign – we’ve got nothing on the Libdems when it comes to uncertainty – its their motto.

      But we knew it would be this way didn’t we, same as the tripe Lamont’s Labour committee will come out with.

    22. HandandShrimp says:

      I suppose a summary translation would be

      “I intended to make a series of proposals but none of the other sods would talk to me…bastirts!”…..”By the way the SNP bastirts are Nazis”

      I agree, by comparison, Gordon’s is comparable to Thomas Paine.

    23. tartanfever says:

      So after 100 years of Liberal calls for ‘Home Rule’ and a couple of years to work on this current ‘plan’ – this is what Ming comes up with.

      Lord help us.

    24. Robert Louis says:

      OK, OK, I get it, this is a ‘spoof’ article from BBC Scotlandshire, isn’t it?

      I mean Menzies Campbell is an ‘elder statesman’, part of the Westminster elite. Surely his REAL report is much more definite in its proposals, much more comprehensive, and most certainly does not cite failed Prime Minister Gordon (an end to boom and bust) Broon as ‘evidence’ of anything.

    25. Elizabeth says:

      You can hear him waffling for Britain earlier today on Good Morning Scotland. He was not enjoying his encounter with Gary Robertson! Clip is courtesy of Peter Curran.

    26. CyberNiall says:

      “Somehow, some day, somewhere!”

    27. Gillie says:

      A new take of Lamont’s “something for nothing” speech.

      This time it’s Ming’s “something or nothing …….. I’m not quite sure”

    28. Inbhir Anainn says:

      What a complete and utter load of codswallop, a NO vote means the status quo and a YES vote means all powers to the Scottish Parliament. No-one with an ounce of sense will or should vote for the promise of jam tomorrow scenario.

      YES majority on the 18th September 2014 guarantees we rise and become a nation again.

    29. lumilumi says:

      So that’s Gordy Brown and Ming Campbell vaguely promising something better after a NO vote. Who’ll be the Tory “elder statesman” delivering the Tories’ empty promises?

      Because empty promises is all this waffle is.

      The Westminster Parliament has to vote to approve any meaningful (or, indeed, any) more powers to the Scottish Parliament. I don’t see much apetite for it in Westminster among the English MPs. They’re much more likely to vote for clawing back powers. They already took back the penguins in Antarctica and didn’t the unelected Lords just recently re-reserve something about energy policy or something (sorry, can’t look up the details just now).

      Make no mistake, Scots. As long as you’re not independent, the Scottish Parliament and its powers exist at the whim of Westminster.

    30. TheGreatBaldo says:

      “The Secretary of State for Scotland should convene a meeting within 30 days of a ‘No’ vote to secure consensus for the devolution of more powers.”

      Yes because to do so at any time in the 1000 or so days of the Indy Ref campaign….well that might be taken by the voters as an actual commitment to do something and we can’t have that.

    31. bunter says:

      Well I’m glad Ming has made things clear. When can I vote NO?

    32. patronsaintofcats says:

      Feck it, I say we make our own jam! Who’s with me?

    33. Iain says:

      Be fair. It’s all very well to laugh, but there are two other final recommendations not mentioned here, which emphasise the importance of the others.

      They are:

      – As soon as possible.

      and

      – If it’s alright with everybody else.

    34. Robert Louis says:

      From Menzies Campbell, quote ” of course there’s not a time frame for consensus”.

      In other words, vote NO and you’ll maybe get more powers sometime within the 21st century, but then again you might not.

    35. Vronsky says:

      Ming was a contemporary of mine as a rugby player. He was very fast, but couldn’t catch the ball. The story from his team mates was, if you wanted him to do anything you had somehow to sidle over and stuff the ball up his jumper. Seems someone has stuffed another ball up his jumper. Run Ming, run!

    36. HandandShrimp says:

      patron

      I love home made jam!

    37. Robert Louis says:

      patronsaintofcats,

      Aye, rhubarb and ginger.

    38. Stuart Black says:

      Just listened to that, wish I hudny. Pompous prick.

    39. fergie35 says:

      Clear eh?
      Last time the libs came out with their ‘leaked’ proposals for Federalism, Scotland gets to raise all her own taxes, but Westminster keeps the Whisky and oil revenues.
      So very kind of them!

    40. dramfineday says:

      Why am I reminded of the Outer Hebrides Broadcasting Corporation strap line “more nonsense in a minute”?

      The next phase of the no campaign comes into sight – what passes for blue sky unionist thinking – vague objectives, neither specific, measurable, achievable nor time-bound to fill the minds of the gullible.

      In short as Gillie exquisitely put it, “Gordy and Ming, yesterday’s men both promising jam tomorrow”.

    41. boglestone says:

      Minging (Menziesing).

    42. fergie35 says:

      Pompous pr!ck in red breeks!

    43. Vronsky says:

      @patronsaintofcats

      Feck it, I say we make our own jam! Who’s with me?

      Me. And with all that money sloshing about, the Rev could offer a prize for the best jam recipe. Anyone got a good recipe for Tomorrow Jam? It must be a raspberry.

    44. Oneironaut says:

      Soooo, the choices are:

      No – “Some new powers of some sort at some point, somehow.”

      Or

      Yes – “Definite new powers of definite sorts at a definite point, definitely!”

      Decisions decisions… 🙂

    45. Davy says:

      I can’t wait to see how Willie Rennie trys to spin that load of cobblers, and is what Gordon Brown and Ming offer the best the unionists can see for Scotland.

      Its like being offered a plate of mince & tatties, without any mince or tatties and being asked to pay for the plate.

      Vote YES, Vote Scotland, Vote for a full plate of mince & tatties,we deserve it.

    46. You and My Comb says:

      I listened to Ming the merciless on GMS. Happy to hear him put under pressure by the presenter. Clearly a case of Jam Tomorrow. Given the electoral status of the Lib Dems, I won’t hold my breath on it making any difference if we have a No vote. In fact, given. Brown has already announced he had retired and the age of Ming, I suspect they will be shuffled off to a corner somewhere.

      Let’s just remove the doubt.

    47. DougtheDug says:

      The waffle about “more powers” is endless.

      The kicker, the showstopper is as always that Scotland will not get more public funds per head than any other part of the UK. The current Barnett formula is a historical and unloved consequence of a change in population ratios in the UK between the home nations.

      This is a red line. Even Ming acknowledges it in his Campbell 1 report, “Federalism: the best future for Scotland”.

      “Fiscal federalism would be assisted by a new needs-based payment system, to be agreed by the federal United Kingdom Government, the Scottish Parliament and the relevant assemblies to ensure fiscal equity across the UK. The report accepts that the Barnett Formula would continue to operate until a new formula is agreed.” (My bold)

      In all the devolution proposals so far, and I await Labour’s with interest, the only way for the Scottish Government to obtain more funding is to raise tax rates above UK levels, in the main personal taxation, and that power’s been there from the start.

      Everything else is smoke and mirrors to try and disguise the fact that the devolution emperor has no clothes.

    48. Triangular Ears says:

      I mean, just look at the way he’s sitting there. He’s totally in love with himself.

    49. the Penman says:

      This is good. Mainly because this is as concrete as post-No powers will get – and we can shout this loud and clear. It’s no longer reading between the lines – wavering Devo-Max fans have to be pushed to Yes now with this.

    50. Gordon is an ambitious guy who wants to leave us with a legacy. Unfortunately it looks not dissimilar to the legacy of Sir Alex Douglas Hume prior to the 1979 Referendum. Maybe that’s where Gordon got the idea from. Well, at least we now know what failed former Prime Ministers of a Scottish extraction do with their time.

    51. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      My ex brother-in-law knew him professionally and had the same feeling for him as a Advocate.

    52. Gin says:

      We could make use of some new YES / Wings / Aye Right branded ‘Jam Today’ Labels. Could be stuck on gifts for doubting friends to get the conversation started. And if @Rev has any funds left perhaps they could be used to buy jam to be donated to Foodbanks. #2wins41

    53. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      “Good Evening.

      My name is Mingus Campbell and I used to be the Leader of the Liberal Democrat Party.

      Is there anyone here old enough to remember that?

      No not me, the Liberal Democrat Party.”

    54. bookie from hell says:

      whats the diff between home rule & devolution?

    55. Robin Ross says:

      Ming Campbell states if the independence referendum fails it’s “once and for all”. In among the word soup this was the only firm point he made and I’m sure that it is more than a straw in the wind. If Scotland does not vote for independence in September the only consensus from Liblabcon we can bank on is a determined effort to ensure that Scotland will never ever have the opportunity to hold another referendum.

    56. bookie from hell says:

      BT cant even get together

      gord independently on his own

    57. G H Graham says:

      Ming Campbell claims in his report that a consensus has been reached. Hoo-rah !

      Thus …

      That the Scottish Parliament’s financial
      powers should be expanded so that it is responsible for raising the taxes to pay for the majority of its spending.

      Eh, Ming, don’t you mean “collect taxes”?

    58. Peter Sneddon says:

      Campbell was a doddering old fool at 50! Nuff said.

    59. Marker Post says:

      Loved the piece:

      Gary Robertson: “Nicola Sturgeon said this morning..”

      Campbell: “Well, she would, wouldn’t she?”

      Timing obviously not…

      his strong

      point

    60. galamcennalath says:

      Do they believe London will take any notice? While we are in the Union, London decides. There is no chance Cameron and Miliband will agree and set any new powers in stone before September. They probably never will. That makes it all smoke and mirrors. We can see clearly through it though.

    61. BigSteveChisholm says:

      6mins15secs

      Gary Robertson: “Nicola Sturgeon says th…”

      The Ming: “Well she would, wouldn’t she.”

      !!!

      He’s on auto-pilot, leaning on the ‘Drone’ button.

    62. X_Sticks says:

      Is that one of the bedside tables in the picture? Or is it a different table paid for by expenses.

      Won’t get any more tables if Scotland votes Yes. Maybe that is what is bothering auld Ming.

    63. Betty Boop says:

      Hear Ming briefly on car radio this morning. Interviewer giving him a hard time by trying to pin him down as to when these proposals would be delivered. Stopped car, went to shop, and jings, he was still there on the radio. Interviewer still frustrated and said these proposals were just aspirations and would need consensus and when would they get that. Well, Ming was miffed and said, intemperately, they wouldn’t get it in a 5 minute interview on Good Morning Scotland!

      He just came across as a dithering idiot.

    64. Appleby says:

      This opposition is so absurd and hopeless I’m amazed that the Yes vote polls aren’t bringing in 90+% intention for Yes. Why on Earth would you decide these bungling idiots are the people for you?

    65. Clootie says:

      The worst of the unionist. A home grown ("Tractor" - Ed). One who has promised his betters a NO vote on the basis of selling this crap. His expertise is kicking things into the long grass.

      We know how much we can trust the LibDems e.g. Free education. The party who have been trying to sell off Scottish water for years (the sale was to have a spending spree when they were in power with Labour at Holyrood).

      Ming Campbell has only one interest in this life and that is Ming Campbell.

      Him, Malcolm Bruce, Beaker et al – I wouldn’t believe a word any of them said.

    66. Gillie says:

      bookie from hell says: whats the diff between home rule & devolution?

      Home Rule: The Scottish people have sovereignty. This means Scots decide who governs and how we are governed.

      Devolution: Westminster retains sovereignty, and so holds all power to decide who governs us and how we are governed.

    67. Vincent McDee says:

      Fellow Wingers:

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/sir-menzies-campbell-yes-campaign-is-a-totalitarian-regime.1394446231

      Sir Menzies Campbell: Yes campaign is a totalitarian regime

      A veteran Scottish MP tasked with finding a consensual cross-party alternative to independence has described the Yes campaign as a “totalitarian regime”.

      Former Liberal Democrat leader Sir Menzies Campbell contrasted the “emerging consensus” among the various unionist parties and non-party institutions for further devolution with the SNP, who are “totally dismissive of the ideas other than their own”.

    68. orkers says:

      Oleaginous old patronising patrician prick.

    69. Brian Powell says:

      Consider if there is a No vote with Ming Campbell, Gordon Brown, Alistair Darling, Willie Rennie and Blair McDougal claiming the credit.

    70. Vincent McDee says:

      Now don’t you go shooting me, I’m just the messenger.

    71. muttley79 says:

      @Robin Ross

      Ming Campbell states if the independence referendum fails it’s “once and for all”.

      Nice to see Ming Campbell living up to his reputation as a Liberal Democrat. I see he is calling the SNP totalitarians, at the same time as saying there is only going to be one independence referendum…

      O/T Does anyone know how you end italics and bold? I have typed i and b with the arrows, but it will not stop where I want it to stop?

    72. Appleby says:

      And cretins like Ming and co. accuse the Yes campaign of not answering questions or being vague about the future. Where is the certainty with this pile of nonsense? Why aren’t the media pressuring him on this as they would the other side?

    73. Brian Powell says:

      This would be like hanging a giant sign around our necks:
      “Kick shit out of us, we like it”.

    74. bald eagle says:

      gary nicola says th”

      minger well she would

      bald eagle minger what a’m i having for my dinner week monday

      minger jam tommorow

      bald eagle minger f£$k off

    75. Seasick Dave says:

      Muttley

      Use or to end.

    76. G H Graham says:

      Why would Campbell care how long it took to get a consensus anyway?

      He’ll be dead by the time they ever reach one & that’s a BIG if.

      After all, his party has been arguing for a Federal Britain for 100 years & they still haven’t reach a consensus with Labour or the Conservatives.

      This paper of his was nothing more than a exercise in distraction tactics initiated by Wee Willie, the Lib/Dem MSP.

      It is then a complete & utter waster of time because it neither promises nor guarantees anything, because the Lib Dems have no majority in Westminster & after a century has passed, still haven’t reached a consensus with the other two dinosaur parties in Westminster.

      Best thing Campbell can do now, is make sure he gives the tailor the correct measurements for his ermine retirement robe.

    77. Seasick Dave says:

      Muttley

      I bolloxed that one up!

      Use / before the closing i or b.

    78. Gillie says:

      One of the things that by implication will happen from Gordy’s and Ming’s contributions is it is now certain the Barnett formula will be scrapped.

    79. David says:

      But surely after a NO vote, Sir Menzies will have to change his name to Sir WH Smith ?! Why would he want that?!

      (His photo really does cry out “Look at me I’m wonderful.”)

    80. galamcennalath says:

      Gillie says:
      bookie from hell says: whats the diff between home rule & devolution?

      Home Rule: The Scottish people have sovereignty. This means Scots decide who governs and how we are governed.

      Home rule strikes me as an old fashiobned term. I have never felt it was the same as independence, being more akin to devo-max.

      http://www.thefreedictionary.com/home+rule

      “The principle or practice of self-government in the internal affairs of a dependent country or other political unit. ”

      Note internal and dependant. Not sovereignty.

      The Liberals have long proposed home rule for Scotland (and Ireland). They never had full independence in mind.

    81. G H Graham says:

      Formatting

      Hit the backslash key before the letter B or I and include the whole thing between the diagonal brackets to cancel the format.

    82. bookie from hell says:

      thx galam.gillie

    83. Findlay Farquaharson says:

      this mans belief in his granduer and self-entitlement is without doubt, this is the type of individual who cares for his lifestyle more than he cares for his people and his country, a truly despicable human being.

    84. sanz says:

      Dear oh dear. Ming remains as pompous and self-satisfied as he was when a prefect at Hillhead High School many years ago. “Cap on straight, boy!”

    85. bookie from hell says:

      twitter

      Toby Young ? @toadmeister

      Gordon Brown’s left out one critical element in his devomax plan – fewer Scottish MPs in Westminster

    86. CapnAndy says:

      So
      “Independence is something that isn’t just for Christmas”? Gee thanks Ming! I’d love Independence for Christmas which is why I’ll be voting YES!

    87. kininvie says:

      Dear Ming:

      Do you agree with David Steel and Jo Grimond that the Scottish people are sovereign and they should choose what powers to delegate and when?

      If you do, why do you refuse to back Yes?

      If you don’t, will you say why you disagree?

    88. R Whittington says:

      Almost (but not quite) as vague as the SNP “It’ll be alright on the night” approach to currency!

    89. Lanarkist says:

      Here is a Minging jam spoon! It is for the jam you might get tomorrow! It might be strawberry, raspberry or another unknown flavour and it might be not be tomorrow!

      However you now have a spoon, for jam, maybe a nice jam, sometime in the future or maybe not!

      If the jam does not arrive, flavour not specified, please return the jam spoon to:

      Houses of Parliament,
      Westminster,
      Londoom.

      Ps, you will have to provide your own carriage fee!

    90. Inbhir Anainn says:

      @Davy

      Willie’s spin is thus:

      “If you vote YES you can forget about getting anymore powers for devolution in Scotland.”

    91. G H Graham says:

      Campbell comes from two Gaelic words “Cam” and “Béal” meaning “Crooked mouth” or “wry-mouthed”.

      Rarely inherited by a more fitting, obfuscating expenses trougher.

    92. Lanarkist says:

      Dear R. Whittington,

      It will be the pound!

      Not a pound of jam but Pound Sterling!

    93. Edward says:

      Just watched what I think is supposed to be Brown’s big speech, with 2 fans of his sitting behind him.
      According to the BBC website this was today.
      But he is saying zip, just extolling that both parliaments should work together. If that’s it, god help us if Scotland votes No
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-26510735

    94. Jamie Arriere says:

      @Muttley,

      end italics with

      end bold with

      end Ming Campbell with

    95. DougtheDug says:

      @muttley79

      Italic
      <i>Italic</i>

      Bold
      <b>Bold</b>

    96. Grouse Beater says:

      H uses the same supermarket I frequent. I have a terrible urge to ….. [fill in the blank]

    97. Jamie Arriere says:

      What the hell happened there ? I lost my punchline! It was

      End Ming Campbell with

    98. Jamie Arriere says:

      Sorry last attempt

      It’s End Ming Campbell with open brackets slash “Get doon the corridor to the ermine Grandad” close brackets

      Not even funny now…

    99. steviecosmic says:

      Ming the Mercifully irrelevant.

    100. Big Jock says:

      My wife sent me to Tesco to buy some sort of flowers. When I came back with self raising,plain and corn. She was rather disappointed as it was not what she expected. Funny thing life you have to specify before you send someone to buy something on your behalf, or you won’t get what you think, they think you meant! Do you understand!

    101. muttley79 says:

      @DougtheDug

      Weird, that what I have been doing and it never stops… Do you do them in any order?

    102. Gillie says:

      galamcennalath:

      The Baltic countries are good examples of retained sovereignty when they were part of the USSR. Though they exercised limited control over their internal affairs during this period, their national sovereignty was never under threat from Moscow.

      In comparison Scotland is a nation without any sovereignty, except on 18th Sept 2014. For one day only Scots become sovereign. We should not waste that opportunity.

    103. DougtheDug says:

      @muttley79

      Are you sure you’re putting the / into the terminating bracket? The start and ends aren’t the same.

    104. bald eagle says:

      muttley’s drunk lets see how long it takes for him to notice

    105. G H Graham says:

      Prof John Curtice on the BBC’s Sunday Politics programme said,

      ‘I think there is a feeling inside the Labour Party that they want to feel ownership of more devolution …

      The trouble is all three parties are not just fighting for the referendum, they are positioning themselves ahead of the 2015 and 2016 elections and that does not encourage cooperation.’

      I rarely agree with him, but on this occasion, he said it better that I could.

      The chance of Campbell reaching a 3 party consensus is NIL.

    106. Seasick Dave says:

      It’s End Ming Campbell with open brackets slash “Get doon the corridor to the ermine Grandad” close brackets.

      You also forgot to finish with, “I’ll get my stoat”.

    107. You and My Comb says:

      O/T

      My wife is just back from an event organised by the Helensburgh Advertiser. On the No side was Jackie Baillie and David Mundell. the yes camp had a green cooncillor whose name my wife can’t remember and Mike Russell.

      My wife, who is more balanced than I am (and just moving from undecided) said that it was a win for Yes although no polling took place. Jackie Baillie played the fear card over the Base and one or 2 other things Labour in to the bargain. Apparently, Mundell, was able to alienate the audience with ease. He thought that Scotland wouldn’t be able to join NATO and laughed at the idea of a Scottish defence force.

      I understand that the young Hermitage Academy pupil on the Yes side acquitted himself well.

      I was only able to follow a bit on twitter as I was on puppy minding duties.

    108. Roll_On_2014 says:

      Ming it just smells like shoite:

    109. Dorothy Devine says:

      I am ready to slit my wrists listening to the waffling old duffer.

      Dear God!

      Please tell Sir Menzies Campbell he has said nothing ,offered nothing and any fool swallowing this guff should not be allowed to vote since they rather obviously are of an IQ which is questionable.

    110. bald eagle says:

      thats twice thats happened last post should have said

      muttleys drunk lets see how long it takes for him to notice the italics have gone

    111. G H Graham says:

      Mr. R. Whittington,

      Sterling (the UK Pound) is a freely traded currency on the open market. There are others; US Dollar, Japanese YEN etc.

      You can buy these and use them to buy stuff because they have a perceived value.

      Unless Britain defaults on its sovereign debts which the Scottish Government has offered to help pay down, the Sterling will still perceived to be worth something.

      Thus the Scottish Government can choose to use this currency with or without a currency union and neither you or anyone else can stop them.

      And if they chose the US Dollar, that would work too.

      Any more questions?

    112. Jamie Arriere says:

      @Seasick Dave

      🙂 That’s a stoatir!

    113. lumilumi says:

      @patronsaintofcats

      Here’s a quick and easy recipe for jam today, from Autralia that didn’t wait for jam tomorrow.

      INGREDIENTS

      4 large oranges
      1 litre (4 cups) water
      750g (3 cups) sugar, approximately
      1 tablespoon brandy

      METHOD

      Peel oranges thickly to remove all white pith, discard skins. Chop oranges roughly, discard seeds. Combine orange pulp and water in boiler, cover, bring to the boil, reduce heat, simmer 20 minutes or until pulp is just tender. Measure orange mixture, allow ¾ cup sugar to each 1 cup of mixture. Return orange mixture and sugar to boiler, stir over heat, without boiling, until sugar is dissolved. Boil rapidly uncovered, without stirring, for about 20 minutes or until jam will jell when tested on a cold saucer. Stand 5 minutes, stir in brandy, pour into hot sterilised jars; seal when cold.

      Makes about 3 cups.

      I suppose you could substitute the brandy with whisky…

    114. lumilumi says:

      Grrr! Australia! Damn no edit function!

    115. muttley79 says:

      @DougtheDug

      I have got it now thanks.

    116. Tamson says:

      Usual drivel from Hamish, not worth reading, frankly. He used to be a Scotsman journalist – ’nuff said.

    117. chicmac says:

      Micturating Ming at his best.

    118. Iain says:

      Listened to the broadcast: both sad and irritating. Sad because he clearly regards himself as a wise elder statesman and his self-esteem depends on it, yet he sounds like an old ditherer. Irritating because there’s no basis for that self-regard, indeed it’s ridiculous: he’s been around for a long time but has never held any position of responsibility in a government. He’s outranked by any junior minister in the Scottish Government.

    119. R Whittington says:

      G H Graham. If only the Scot government were so candid. Unfortunately in the light of all three westminster parties, the treasury, and the majority of the public south of the border not wishing a currency union only one of the scenarios you suggest seems likely (weirdly a currency union has to be agreed with the country you are proposing to have that union with). In any event, neither of the two options you have given would allow an independent Scotland to set its own interest rate. Not really my idea of ‘independence’, but I can see why the yes campaign would want to sweep the difficult issue away with vague and baseless reassurances.

    120. msean says:

      What powers exactly lol?All this time and they came up with this crud,so yes it is.They must think we are all kidding about independence.We are not.

    121. Pin says:

      Would love to see Alex Salmond debate Gordon Brown

    122. bald eagle says:

      o/t anybody

      is there anybody in glasgow able to tell me where to get a fan for this piece of scrap i keep being told to bring it in and get repaired

      im not paying for it to sit for days and getting charged loads by some spotty twit that just takes five mins to fix
      I would be very gratefull

    123. The Man in the Jar says:

      A new BBC series is starting soon.

      “The Great British Jam Off”

      Presented by Alistair Darling contestants will compete to see if they can make jam that will actually stick to something, anything! A panel of judges will decide the winner. The panel of judges will comprise of the people of Scotland.

    124. Les Wilson says:

      As I have said before any new promises that would make Scotland a better place would need to be underwritten by the EU, Nato, USA, The Pope, er God!

      For me to believe in ANYTHING, any of them say.
      Oh also noted in Brown’s speech, better in the UK sharing resources, well that means ours! He must think he is on a winner with that one, eh, not!

      Did no one tell him, given his upbringing, that charity begins at home. When we have sorted out the mess they have made in Scotland, then, and only then, we will afford to be charitable.

    125. bald eagle says:

      grrr deep breath f^&*%£g piece of crap

      please dont say pc world for a fan i got one from them and it
      nearly sucked the face off me when I switched the comp back on

    126. Lanarkist says:

      When are the Scottish Tories publishing their Devo proposals?

      Shame it wasn’t today, we could have had a hat-trick, of own goals!

    127. mogabee says:

      Are all these “elder statesmen” too doddery to include a very important reason why many people will vote yes?

      The permanent removal of W of MD.

    128. Lanarkist says:

      When G. Broon says we should all be sharing risk and pooling resources is he talking about another bank bailout or just that every town, City and village in U.K. Will get their share of London weighting back payed into their salaries?

      Just asking!

    129. Jamtoday says:

      WHAT DO WE WANT?
      JAM!!!!
      WHEN DO WE WANT IT?
      TODAY!!!!

    130. CameronB says:

      Thanks Rev. Finally, I now know who Papa Oom Mow Mow is.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFv-uc90-FM

      We should remain vigilant though, as Mama Oom Mow Mow is sure to ask for a debate this.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWFZLwbxKGI

    131. CameronB says:

      I should allow the heart rate to fall before posting. 🙂

    132. Helpmaboab says:

      Let’s not forget that Sir Menzies Campbell QC, MP has a cosy retirement set up irrespective of the referendum result.

      If we vote ‘No’ he’ll be give a peerage and spend the rest of his days slavering down an ermine robe.

      If we vote ‘Yes’ he won’t get the peerage but he’ll spend the rest of his days as Chancellor of Saint Andrews University slavering down a black-and-gold academic gown.

    133. Seer says:

      Ming’s tribute to Cyril Smith. Has any Scottish journalist asked him about his friendship? http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L5iL2dDSyl0

    134. EdinScot says:

      Ming is the typical Britnat Unionist politico trying to play with Scotland and the people who live and work here. His answer is that he cant and wont give an answer! He shames himself in trying to trick Scotland out of her rightful future. Unlordsmanlike behaviour.

      His answer can be otherwise translated Simple Mindedly as ‘Someone Somewhere in Summertime’. Stick your jam tomorrow Ming as Scotland has a ‘New Gold Dream’. Its called Independence and is the norm around the world.

    135. Jim T says:

      @bald eagle

      Good ol’ Amazon or Dabs.com

      If only buying one though, there will be postage damage to your wallet as well.

      Don’t know what PC you have but the fans are standard sizes and will (as you probably know) have two or three wires into a wee white/grey header plug that should be mated with a suitable point on the motherboard having “fan” written near it. Most PC MoBos will have a temperature controlled fan speed supply and that should eliminate the face-sucking effect shortly after switch-on 🙂 I hope …

    136. wee folding bike says:

      bald eagle,

      Try Priceless in Finneston, across the road from PC World, or their other shop in Commerce St.

      http://www.pless.co.uk/home.php?cat=108

    137. frazer allan whyte says:

      “The Secretary of State for Scotland should convene a meeting within 30 days of a ‘No’ vote to secure consensus for the devolution of more powers.”
      Why the rush? – the Liberals have been “supporting home rule” for over a century now without actually doing anything about it – it’s now as discredited as the failed politicians mouthing on about it.

      A century ago home rule would have – perhaps – been a sign that England was willing to recognize the equality of the people of the British Isles – it didn’t happen and so the Irish shot their way out. The Scots remained slavishly supine perhaps because centuries of massive emigration had drained the country of most of its self respect and it has only recently begun to de-colonialize. “Devo max” is just a deviant term for long lost “home rule”. It is a term whose term hasn’t only not come but went a few generations ago.

      Without the complete amputation of independence the patient is not going to recover but will just stagger about muttering irrelevantly and eventually fall mewling into a corner, helpless, senile and demented – a shell of what it could have been. Yes in September will be not just about “rising and being a nation again” but about whether Scots are bipedal and not just crawlers at the beck and call of a decadent and dishonest London clique.

    138. Paula Rose says:

      @lumilumi – that jam recipe sounds a bit marmaladish to me, can we include marmalade in this? – re jam, jute and journalism.

    139. RogueCoder says:

      So let me get this straight; the Yes campaign spend months researching and compiling a 670 page report detailing their plans for how an independent Scotland would work, including answering some 650 questions gathered from consultation, backed up by legal opinion and detailed economic research – and it get rubbished in the press, denounced as “notes on a fag packet”, and Alex Salmond is accused of being a “man with no plan”.

      Ming and Brown knock out LESS than half a sheet of A4 each with no plans, no timetable, no vision and no goals – and because they have no original ideas of their own or a CLUE what they are talking about, they have the astonishing, unmitigated GALL to demand the Scottish Government’s research in order to formulate some plans AFTER a No vote – and this gets lauded in the press?

      Brown and Ming; Read My Lips – F___ right off, ya pair of chancers!

    140. Ian Brotherhood says:

      (Almost) complete video of last Monday’s SSP Ayr meeting, with main speakers Colin Fox and Jim Sillars.

    141. Alfresco Dent says:

      That really is an exceptionally poor piece of work, is it not. I’m a manual labourer on not much above minimum wage and I would be ashamed to hand that to my boss. Dearie me.

    142. Papadox says:

      Today has been a wee bitty surreal, EBC appears to be reasonably well behaved relative to their normal biased performance. Anyone else get this impression?

      They are probably just having a wee rest today, we’ll see.

    143. Alfresco Dent says:

      Or what RogueCoder (you’re new) said above.

    144. Clootie says:

      It is important to note that the proposals are from two has beens with zero influence.

      They are sacrificial lambs who will be blamed post a NO vote (which hopefully will not happen).

      More than half the 650 MP’s will be required to turn these proposals into fact. It will not happen and it is an insult to suggest any additional powers will be granted. Oil money will continue to go South and the Barnett formulae will be CUT and CUT hard – 4Billion/ year at least.

      Look at all the evidence of Tory MP’s and Labour MP’s shouting for cuts (the Welsh FM could not have made it any clearer)

    145. Ian Brotherhood says:

      …and a much briefer video of Richie Venton winding-up the meeting –

    146. Grouse Beater says:

      Proposals of Hapless Gordon In Eptome:
      Alex Salmond should be dragged to the Grassmarket, placed in stocks, and pilloried.

      Proposals of Ming Campbell In Epitome:
      Alex Salmond should be dragged to the Grassmarket, placed in stocks, and pilloried.

    147. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Seer

      I got that in one.
      Anybody else?

    148. bjsalba says:

      As much good as a chocolate teapot.

      And isn’t Minging retiring to Ermine at the end of this parliament?

    149. Alfresco Dent says:

      Irrespective of what happens currency-wise after we vote yes – assuming of course that Westminster is not lying (stop laughing at the back there) – I foresee the fUK Pound sinking like a stone when the income from oil, gas, whisky, jam et al is removed from the fUK balance of payments.

    150. SquareHaggis says:

      Looks like the Ming/Broon lead balloon went doon wi a resounding pfffft…

    151. thorkil cretin says:

      Ming Campbell also thought paedophile Cyril Smith was a great chap. Kind of tells you all you need to know about this pompous mealy mouthed conman and his foul Fib-Dum ilk.

    152. Flower of Scotland says:

      I absolutely hate having SIR MING CAMBELL as my MP! He has never lived in the constituency ( but has a holiday home here ) Well good for him ! He’s another politician that lives in La La land! What gives him the right to propose any extra powers for Scotland! He has NO POWER to deliver these changes!

      As for Gordon Brown ! God why does Fife have all these Unionist MPs and MSPs Ie Willie Rennie as well! What have we done to deserve this!

      However,I’m not a Fifer,but I always work really hard for the causes of Self Determination! Just vote YES!

    153. Flower of Scotland says:

      BTW,my Scottish born but brought up in England cousin face booked me yesterday to say” There , there you are going to get more powers Ming and Brown said so! Big Sighs and lots of muttering and sweary words to myself!

    154. liz says:

      Had a quick look at the comments BTL on the BBC Scotland Broon report.

      It’s full of people complaining about England not having it’s own parliament and voting down reasonable comments from pro – Yes.

      I thought it was a BBC Scotland blog?

    155. caz-m says:

      Dear people of the Kingdom of Fife, look what your contribution has been to the YES campaign so far,

      Mingin Campbell – MP NE Fife.
      Gordon Broon – MP Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath.
      Willie Rennie – MSP Mid Scotland and Fife.
      Cara Hilton – MSP Dunfermline.
      Alex Rowley – MSP Cowdenbeath.

      FFS are you lot stuck in some kind of time warp, c’mon wake up over there, Scotland needs you.

      If not for your own future then for your children’s future.

      Turn Fife into a big YES.

    156. Alan Gerrish says:

      Sorry Ming – I still can’t follow your train of thought, even with Garry giving you plenty of space. Never have I heard such a garbled mish-mash of what you like to call “rational discourse” which as far as your contribution this morning is concerned is utter gollocks.

      “No timescale for consensus” you say, well, “Don’t call us, the people of Scotland, and we won’t be calling you, as we’re in a hurry to sort out all the mess created by you and your party in coalition with the Tories.”

      ps Did you perhaps realise before this interview that you have zilch to contribute to this debate? It’s just that, apart from the occasional slurred speech and the constant lack of anything substantive to say, as well as the constant put-downs of Gary Robertson for trying to get you to say anything substantive, I was left feeling that you were, well, totally ….useless. Please don’t try this a second time or I might have to throw something at the radio.

    157. geeo says:

      Gordon Brown, positioning himself for the next tory chancellor post maybe?
      As for mr campbell, did someone record him talking in his sleep then quote him?

      What a load of utter nonsense yet again from BT, mind you, it would be a shock if they suddenly started talking sense.

      Saying that, flash gordon and emperor ming as best buds, who would have thought it !!
      *sigh*

    158. SquareHaggis says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      Thank you posting that – this ii exactly what the BBC should be splashing ower the news bulletins. NOT fuckwits like Ming & Broon.

      Maks me wantae greet me bleedin een oot.

    159. Onwards says:

      It really is pathetic.

      Scots can accept some vague promises of a few more powers.

      Or we can just take ALL powers, and be done with it.

      Then we deal from a position of strength.

    160. Morag says:

      I had a row with Ming a couple of years ago at the Edinburgh Book Festival. About Lockerbie, obviously. He came out with a series of lies about the evidence, and then announced that because he was a lawyer he knew best and everybody else should just accept that.

      Someone else, referring to the non-jury trial, remarked that no Scottish jury would have convicted on that evidence. Ming said that was the problem with juries, they didn’t understand the law and stuff like that, which was why it was right to leave it all to lawyers and judges. Gobsmacked, the questioner asked Ming if he was against the principle of jury trials, but Ming refused to answer.

      My impression from that lot was that Ming is not very bright but has an enormous conceit of himself. He’s also perfectly happy to assert falsehoods without turning a hair, if they suit his position.

    161. I think you’ve unearthed something from the Ming Dysentery.

    162. Helpmaboab says:

      I’ve just had a flashback to April 2011…

      Standing in the BP petrol station of the A92 in Glenrothes while filling up my car my attention was drawn to a handsome purple Jaguar on the other side of the pumps. Its elderly male driver was filling his car while having a bad-tempered exchange with his wife sitting in the passenger seat. Out of politeness I tried my best not to listen.

      Only later I realised that the tetchy, geriatric Jag driver was Menzies Campbell. A few weeks later the subsequent election saw his party wiped out at Holyrood with the exception of that gap-toothed fellow whose name escapes me…

      I think that ever since then he’s been preparing for his ermine pension.

    163. lumilumi says:

      I just listened to that GMS interview with Ming Campbell.

      Apart from anything he actually said… well, waffled on about, I was appalled by the tone. Pompous, condescending, patronising.

      Fair do’s to Gary Robertson who tried to get some definitive answers from that pompous git. Ming’s “train of thought” was more like a slow-mo train crash.

      I think the bottom line was that this is Scotland’s one and only last chance to save itself before the likes of Ming Campbell spike the Holyrood Parliament and seek “consensus” in Westminster for another 100 years.

      Oh, @ Paula Rose, about the jam/marmalade recipe.

      You have to excuse me because I’m a foreigner and not familiar with all the subtle differeces, my language has different words for berry/fruit preserves. I found that recipe by 30 secs of googling and liked the fact it was Australian. From an independent country that cut the cord… Well, nearly. They still have the Queen as the formal head of state. Lizzy is quite popular in Oz but attitudes to monarchy might change after Charles III takes the throne.

      And more about jam. Maybe two years ago a picture of unionist jam tomorrow did the rounds in the cyberspace. I can’t find it anymore but it was brilliant. An empty (unused) jam jar with the label “Union Jam”. I saw a picture of a pretty young woman wearing a tight T-shirt with that jam jar picture. A thousand words and so on…

    164. gordoz says:

      Ming Campbell always reminded me of the firework that nver really went off properly as a kid. You know the one fizzes & splutters but ultimately very embarrassing for all concerned.

      Ming away hame & retire ya dud!

    165. X_Sticks says:

      Well Stuart, you made mincemeat of Ming’s jam. Ming’s fantasy jam has a whiff of camphor about it.

      @Papadox

      “EBC appears to be reasonably well behaved relative to their normal biased performance. Anyone else get this impression?”

      Yes, just saying that over on the Gordon Brown thread. I was surprised teh Broon one’s bolloks wasn’t top story. Embarrasment? Trying to appear impartial? The level of complaint about bias getting to bad to ignore? Strange days indeed.

      @liz

      “I thought it was a BBC Scotland blog?”

      They were ‘advertising’ it on the main page. We don’t get to have our ‘own’ blog. Bit like our country really.

    166. gordoz says:

      Dont know who this fits better ?

      Broon or Campbell – Rev you decide.

    167. lumilumi says:

      gordoz, thank for that apt musical clip. 😀

      But surely you are aware that people in an independent Scotland wouldn’t be able to listen to the Beatles. Just like people in independent Finland can’t listen to the Beatles… oh, wait…

    168. Papadox says:

      Did big Gordy today state that he wanted to see the 4 counties of the UK have equal say in the running of the UK:

      English MPs = 502
      Scottish =. 52
      Wales. =. 30
      NI. =. 16

      Well Gordy think you are either biased or stupid and dishonest, If you think that is honest and fair then I now understand you and SLAB.

      English MPs 502
      All others. 98

      Don’t sound to fair or balanced to me Gordy. There must be something I’m missing. £££££



    Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.




    ↑ Top