stooges of the Kremlin

Wings Over Scotland


A tale of two leaders

Posted on January 12, 2018 by

Ruth Davidson appeared on Good Morning Scotland today as part of their series of interviews with what they call “the leaders of the larger parties in Scotland”, which for some reason is also including the Lib Dems and Greens.

You can listen to the piece – which showcased the usual evasive, time-killing waffle technique Davidson employs as standard, noticeably uncomfortable only when Gary Robertson pressed her on welfare-cuts suicides – for yourself if you want, but in our Panelbase poll last month we discovered a difference between Davidson and Nicola Sturgeon we thought was quite interesting, so we’re going to talk about that instead.

At last year’s general election, Tory voters divided in a pretty even three-way split over their main reason for doing so, between Davidson personally, Tory policies, and trying to stop a second indyref.

But far fewer SNP voters cast a personal vote for Nicola Sturgeon, or in an attempt to either secure a fresh referendum OR block Brexit. By a huge margin – over half, and 37 points ahead of the nearest alternative option, SNP voters were simply voting for SNP policies, not personality or referendums.

That’s particularly strange in a Westminster election, where there’s little chance of ANY Scottish MPs, regardless of party, having a noticeable impact on government policy. But it does rather shatter the media myth about “Ulsterisation” of Scottish politics, where everything is supposedly seen through the prism of the constitution.

Even if you bundle independence and Brexit into one category under the constitutional umbrella, just over a third of Tory voters and less than a quarter of SNP voters voted primarily on either of those grounds, despite the campaign being fought almost entirely on independence (by the Tories) and largely on Brexit (by the SNP).

Those numbers suggest that despite a general decline in SNP support over the last couple of years, the Unionist parties are going to have ahard time shifting them from power. The Tories have a popular leader but that’s a fragile position as Davidson’s shine wears off, and of course Labour have neither a charismatic frontman in Scotland nor any discernible policies on most subjects other than raising everyone’s taxes.

A vote founded on domestic policy is a much stronger base than kneejerk opposition on any single issue (particularly when Scots want Holyrood, not Westminster, to make the big constitutional decisions), and Scottish voters still appear to be a little more sophisticated and sensible than the commentariat gives them credit for.

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    124 to “A tale of two leaders”

    1. Auld Rock says:

      Anyone surprised???

    2. bobajock says:

      I’m always befuddled when people mention an SNP decline.

      I saw the last GE as simply a Tory disaster for the UK, and thought (wrongly) that Scottish turnout would be low, and that the SNP would lose 3 or 4 seats just with tiny swings.

      The reality was mass media ‘stop indyref2’ and unionist pressure to vote to stop it – vs an SNP population that look on Westminster as a waste of time, and zero media presence to warn them of what the sneaky unionists were likely to get from losing 20 odd seats.

      There you go. A learning experience.

    3. Fraser Reid says:

      Leaders of what……..

    4. Macart says:

      Another myth neatly skewered.

      Much as I do actually like Nicola Sturgeon, I’d have to hold my hand up and say it was their overall policy approach which won my vote too.

      I associate the cult of personality with media and media with something stanky you find under septic tank these days. I prefer to check out what the party stands for, what it intends to deliver and what its representatives general record on delivery is.

      I reckon we’ve pretty much got the best government on these islands, given the nature of our democracy and practice of politics. I’m happy enough to vote for them again so long as they continue in the same fashion.

    5. Bill McDermott says:

      For Labour to go into a negotiation and not have a bottom line is ludicrous. These people are supposed to be knowledgeable about negotiation with their links to trade unions, but this proves otherwise. The first thing to do in a negotiation is to agree what you want out of it and then to assess what the other side will accept as its bottom line. After this analysis it is all compromise if needed.

    6. Proud Cybernat says:

      How could you not vote for the only party that actually thinks positively about Scotland; a party which does its damndest to deliver on its policies; a party whose first priority is to deliver a better life for everyone in Scotland?

      Voting any British Nationalist party is to simply vote for the clapped out, redundant, backward, containment, uninspiring ‘policies’ of the past. “Say nothing, Do nothing” – that way you can’t get the blame for anything when the shit hits the fan.

      Scotland’s done with all that. Scotland has big ideas and even bigger aspirations.

      Scotland’s confidence in ourselves, in our abilities grows each. Next stop indy – it’s the natural and obvious destination.

      Y’upffurritt?

    7. Donald anderson says:

      The SNP is the third largest party in the House of Horrors, yet you hardly see them on the English waffler’s chatterbox panels,talking about nothing.

      Mickey the Barrage Balloon is never aff the telly with no members in Westminster.

    8. Effijy says:

      How do the Tory and Labour leaders have the nerve to cast any shadows over the SNP Government when their own Tory and Labour NHS Services are vastly inferior to NHS Scotland?

      Its absolutely absurd to put forward that they would Improve NHS Scotland when they are destroying the NHS in their own back yards.

      Scotland has the most rural of areas to support, remote islands, a history of poor diet and of alcohol abuse, we have the worst of the UK weather that brings hypothermia, falls, car accidents and flu bugs in greater numbers, and we have not privatised 10%
      of the NHS like Tory England.

      I must congratulate the SNP Government as well as the wonderful people who make NHS Scotland the Best in the World.

      So Ruth and Leonard want to change that? People vote for that?

      PS I googled English A & E waiting times as it is using a different measure to Scotland, but nowhere can I find the difference documented on a government web site?

      Can anyone assist as I have a Daily Record reader with just enough brain cells to convince, if I can find it documented.

    9. auld highlander says:

      Never ever watch or listen that motor mouth Davidson, she reminds me of the old phrase, empty vessels make the most noise.

    10. Dr Jim says:

      Perhaps had the question been which party leader do you trust to do the best for Scotland the numbers may have looked slightly different

      Or which party leader would you invite round your house for coffee and a gypsy cream, my guess is the result would have been overwhelming

      Too many questions can be difficult for some but then again we’re told too few questions are divisive, or you could have thrown in another question at the last minute to totally swing the results, I remember folk doing that before

      I kinda favour Yes or No coz I’m more of a cult kinda guy, totally divisive and single minded

      Nail Hammer Done

    11. Proud Cybernat says:

      @Effijy

      Dr Philippa Whitford explains the difference to a stunned and awed HoC. She knows how NHS England works better than most of the stunned English MPs:

      https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/951152937551712256

      Storming performance from her. Hope that’s what you’re looking for.

    12. msdidi says:

      Effijy re hospital waiting times
      Dr Philippa Whitford SNP explains in HofC. It is on her facebook page January 10th at 6.06pm. I don’t know how to link this to here but hope you can see it and find it useful

    13. Robert Peffers says:

      Effijy says: 12 January, 2018 at 3:43 pm:

      “Can anyone assist as I have a Daily Record reader with just enough brain cells to convince, if I can find it documented.”

      The Difference is quoted at least once in the previous thread, Effijy.

      Do webpage search for it if you use Internet explorer or MS Edge and it should show up.

    14. Jack collatin says:

      You may recall that Findlay was anointed as the Tubby Czar by his party last year. He was going to cure Scotland’s obesity problem.
      Fat chance.
      The man has shit for brains if he thinks that ‘do nothing’ is a policy.
      Neil Findlay, we pay you to do ‘something’, anything, for the £1200 a week we pay you.
      You work for me. Get off your well larded arse and fight for the people of Scotland, 62% of whom voted, and Demand, to remain within the EU.
      Otherwise, get off the pot.
      Ruth Davidson has been side-lined by her pals in WM, perhaps ‘Big T’ is no longer her BF.
      We Scots after all will wreck the joint or steal things if we are let loose Down There.
      Fuckwit of a creature.
      She will be ennobled and stuck in the Scottish Office as Minister For Shoving Brexit Up The Scots’ Arses by April when the Yes Movement revitalises and Brexshit hits the fan.
      I have nothing but disgust for this wee chancer.
      We’re nearly there.
      My view is that Yoons vote SNP in SGEs because they like all the ‘freebies’, like a publicly owned HS, no prescription charges, free care for the elderly, atoll free run to work in Edinburgh, and so on.
      I doubt that any Yoon, apart from the Follow Follow WATP Two Jobs Tomkins OO God’s a Proddy and dinosaurs didn’t exist nutjobs of this world, seriously considers that the Red Blue or Yellow Tories could govern Scotland.
      Davidson Rennie or Leonard as FM?
      It would be funny if it weren’t so farcical.
      It’s comin’ yet for a’ that.
      Stu, you’re on fire since the turn of the year. OD-ing on sugar full Irn Bru?

    15. Highland Wifie says:

      For some strange reason Scottish Conservative voters in the GE I have spoken to still think that the drop in the SNP vote means a drop in support for independence. Where do they get that from?
      One such also thinks Labour is on the up in Scotland and is going to unseat Nicola!!?

      I don’t understand anyone who doesn’t vote for the party that is delivering for Scotland against all the odds. As long as the SNP are in power I feel safe for the time being from the utter insanity going on in the rest of this so called UK.

    16. SandyW says:

      Why didn’t you ask the obvious third question?

      You said you voted for Scottish Labour in this year’s General Election. You sad, deluded fool. What would you say was your main reason for doing so?

      A. Thingummies leadership
      B. Desperate to find out what their policies are
      C. To ensure that Brexit either does or doesn’t go ahead depending on what day of the week it is
      D. I’m a tree

    17. PictAtRandom says:

      What about a question beginning “You abstained in the 2017 GE…” (with a optional addition of “and voted *** in 2015″) Was there any particular reason for this?”

    18. jfngw says:

      @Donald Anderson

      Simple the BBC since the SNP are the third largest party by seats, representation on TV shows should be as if we use proportional representation. Of course UKIP are excluded from this, they appear more than the SNP despite polling lower than them in 2017. This despite UKIP only receiving 1.8% in all of the UK compared to SNP 3% in 59 seats.

      Admittedly I no longer often watch BBC politics programmes so are immune to their nonsense.

    19. Robert Peffers says:

      @Proud Cybernat says: 12 January, 2018 at 4:07 pm:

      “Dr Philippa Whitford explains the difference to a stunned and awed HoC. She knows how NHS England works better than most of the stunned English MPs:
      https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/951152937551712256
      Storming performance from her. Hope that’s what you’re looking for.”

      I have the greatest admiration for that great lady, Proud Cybernat.

      When she speaks in the Commons the Yoons sit up and take notice. This is the lady that the SMSM accused of, “Moonlighting”, for prifit by doing operations for the SNHS in her spare time to help out the service, (and probably to keep her surgeon’s hands in.

      Whether she got, or asked for, payment, is neither here nor there. Good consultant surgeons are scarce at any time and I would venture a guess the lady takes a pay drop in order to be an insider in politics. The SMSM numpties should hang their heads in shame – except that those brainless numpties do not know what shame is. They imagine themselves to be omnipotent. Yet a bigger group of brainless numpties would be hard to find anywhere on old Planet Earth.

    20. Without using big words could someone explain what Ulsterisation means, (prism of the constitution ?)

      Ta.

    21. Proud Cybernat says:

      “Ulsterisation” means David Torrance is a fecking eejit. Something like that.

    22. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Scot Finlayson @ 16:45,

      That a majority of people would vote fanatically pro-Union or anti-Union regardless of any other political issue, and refuse to compromise over anything much at all besides. With an implicit threat of violence being hinted-at by some within the Unionist camp.

    23. Phydaux says:

      I am heartened to read this and the previous poll.The people of Scotland have a positive attitude and outlook towards the continuing good governence of our country by the SNP. It’s what the government is actively doing, not what they say, not what they think that really counts.They work as an effective team and always show willing to work with others to do what’s best for Scotland.

      It also suggests the electorate are increasingly immune to the screaming headlines and snpbadnes. The Establishment needs a pathetic, celebrity-obsessed, grovelling population which worships the royals. The MSM seems increasingly unhinged by their loss of power and influence over us. They are fighting a losing battle, in my view, and are burning their bridges whilst we are building ours, world renowned and iconic. Quote from Dylan Thomas: ” When one burns one’s bridges, what a very nice fire it makes”.

      The self serving Scottish Unionist politicians are a bunch of useless anti-intellectual pillocks, where self congratulory ignorance has become a source of pride. They seem to have neither pride nor interest in our country’s progress. None of them could think their way out of a wet paper bag. The SNP does what it says on the tin.

    24. Bobp says:

      Scot, ulsterisation is the brainwashing of orange bigots to hate kaffliks.

    25. geeo says:

      Re Phillipa Whitford.

      I believe surgeons are required to do x amount of precedures to maintain their license to perform operations.

      Remember reading it somewhere (possibly here).

    26. Marie Clark says:

      I’m quite intrigued by folk voting for conservative policies. Really, whit policies might they be? Do they mean whatever Westminster dishes out to us, or the Scottish version, which only consists of SNP BAAAAAAAD. I mean Davidson at the election did not even admit to being a tory. It was the Ruth Davidson No to a 2nd referendum party. So what gives. MMHH>

      I voted SNP, not for Nicola or oor Eck when he was the heid bummer. Like others I voted for them, because THEY do actually have good policies for all of Scotland, and it’s so bad that the have to use their severely cut budget, to mitigate against daft policies for darn sarf.

      I will keep voting SNP until we get our independence, then, all options are open. I can’t see what use any of the unionist parties will be then, after all, they won’t have a union to support anymore. Good.

    27. Street Andrew says:

      People actually vote FOR Ruth Davidson?

      What am I missing?

    28. Dan Huil says:

      Always feel physically sick when I see a picture of Colonel Blimp.

    29. wull2 says:

      Ask yourself, do you love Scotland, If you answer YES, you have already answered the second question.
      You will never get rid of us, no matter how you try with your fibs.

    30. yesindyref2 says:

      @Scot Finlayson
      Ulsterisation is the reverse of vulcanisation.

      Vulcanisation is the process of repairing a hole on e.g. a car tyre or rubber balloon, and making it as good as new. A similar process was used on Spock on Genesis to bring him back to life.

      Ulsterisation is the process of taking a balloon and creating a hole, as used on David Torrance.

    31. PictAtRandom says:

      O/T:
      Farbeit from me to promote The Guardian — but I thought that it contained a noteworthy story re the company Carillion, whose shares have fallen by 90% recently.

      “Name an infrastructure pie in the UK and the chances are Carillion has its fingers in it: the HS2 rail link, broadband rollout, the Royal Liverpool University Hospital, the Library of Birmingham. It maintains army barracks, builds PFI schools, lays down roads in Aberdeen. The lot.”

      Seems there was a ministerial crisis meeting about the firm just yesterday. Depending on how this plays out it could be of significance when voters are thinking about the relative competences of Holyrood and Westminster. Stay tuned.

    32. Wullie says:

      I will keep voting SNP until we get independence. Thereafter I think a vote for any other party for at least a generation will be dangerous in the extreme. The unionist basterds will still be around doing their best to work against Scotland.

    33. Legerwood says:

      Effijy @ 3.43 pm

      This is a link to a UK Civil Service site about UK A&E waiting times

      At the bottom of the page there is a link to an Exel file which sets out the criteria used by each of the 4 NHS units in the UK to measure waiting times.

      https://gss.civilservice.gov.uk/health-waiting-time-statistics/

    34. shiregirl says:

      Bit o/t here but I have been sent a Scotland in Union invite to a burns supper??!! I don’t think I’ll be taking up the invite. Does anyone know how they get email addresses? hmm…

    35. CameronB Brodie says:

      This deserves some detailed analysis through a critical cultural realist perspective, focusing on Thatcherism and the rise of the New Right, the cultivation of an authoritarian social personality, blood-and-soil culturalism, open support for negative eugenics and stuff, but I’m a bit flat today. Tories are bad and are certainly not conservative, mky. More like neo-liberal, authoritarian, nationalist, cultists.

      N.B. The cult of Bentham employs quack science to give utilitarianism a veneer of morality. Malthus was wrong in the 18th century and he is still wrong today.

    36. shiregirl says:

      …excuse me as I read the Burns night invite…

      “We are excited that MP Alistair Carmichael (Scottish Liberal Democrats) and MSPs Johann Lamont (Scottish Labour) and Murdo Fraser (Scottish Conservatives) will all be speaking at the event.”

      Oh me…’scuse me while I choke on my mealie pudding.

    37. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Street Andrew @ 17:08,

      Someone who puts up a pretence of “down-to-earth straight talking” while in fact saying nothing at all except in effect “shut up and do what yer telt”.

      She is the objectification of “don’t want any of this very upsetting change” that the fearties have. A kind of authoritarian nanny figure to reassure them.

      Whereas for the same faint-hearts, Nicola (as Alex was before her) is the objectification of “untold and unwanted change”. It has nothing to do with either of them as actual real-life individuals or even in many cases their actual policies.

      The trick is to convince the fearties that the wee corporal is nothing but a fraud, a shallow con-artist who can’t be trusted and will sell them out into more bad change than they ever imagined, whereas indy is the only way that inevitable change can be managed optimally.

      Hence the importance of coupling Brexit with indy. If we’re still playing the game post-Brexit, we land on the last snake head and slide right back to square one.

    38. Robert Kerr says:

      @Shiregirl

      They got your email from the Secret Police.

      But

      Go Lassie Go.

      And report back.

      Good Luck

    39. Dan Huil says:

      @shiregirl 5:42pm

      You have my sympathies. The thought of breathing the same air as these three rabid britnats makes me ill – again – just as I was forgetting about the Colonel Blimp picture.

      I imagine them all tartan’d up gleefully doing down Scotland.

      Burns wid greet.

    40. Bob Mack says:

      Ms Davidson is everything Nicola Sturgeon is not.

      Ms Davidson actively recruited members of the Orange Order to stand in elections at various tiers of government. Now say what you like about ordinary people and religion, but the Orange Order are the ISIS of Protestant ism. I know this because members of my family were in it.

      They neither want nor welcome independence, and whether we like it or not, they have influence in local communities.

      That decision by Davidson was cold calculated and deliberate. Designed to galvanise people she believed, into religious factions,as Glasgow used to be in my youth. I am not talking about football here.

      I remember the head of the Lodge stating that they could now pursue their own agenda rather than that of the Tory Party

      Like me ,many people want to leave that nonsense behind, because it is nonsense.

      We are moving forward with or without these outdated tribal groupings

    41. Bradford Millar says:

      personally i don’t think the SNP has lost support … their last two campaigns were terrible the message was muddled and none knew what they were campaigning on … Derek MacKay as leader of those 2 campaigns should shoulder a lot of the blame for SNPs poor performance in the council and general election

    42. Dr Jim says:

      @Shiregirl

      Don’t go for God sake if they uncover your identity it’ll be straight downstairs to the basement with the rubber gloves chains and the zip up masks

      Save yourself

    43. Legerwood says:

      Robert Peffers @ 4.37

      I watched Dr Whitford’s, or should I say Ms Whitford since she is a surgeon, speech yesterday and agree it was a good one.

      I do not know if you noticed but one of the interventions came from a Labour MP, also a doctor, who said she had been working in a hospital over the break.

      When Dr Whitford was getting it in the neck from the media because of her stint in a hospital many MPs from all parties who are also doctors supported her.at the time and stood up in the Hoc to say so.

      PS. Flu. You be careful and take care. The after effects of the flu can be just as dangerous as the flu.

    44. HandandShrimp says:

      The fundamental error that Davidson makes over Ulsterisation is that if successful there would be no place for the Conservative Party, just a very unpleasant form of Loyalist, intolerant politics that would ditch her in a moment. Queen’s 11 zoomers like Murdo would tick the box though.

    45. Robert Graham says:

      Ruthies pals Labour in Scotland egging on the unions to start causing trouble by calling for wage increases way beyond the budget affordable by the Scottish government , instead of attacking the Tory Westminster crew they decide to join with the Tory party , if anyone is still in any doubt about there being a Unionist Bloc it’s there right in front of you .

      This Gorilla action will continue bit by bit chip chip chip it will be relentless the combined Unionist Bloc in Holyrood will seek to topple ministers with the help of the BBC and the other media .

      Personally I favour the Nuclear option ,

      Call an immediate election , Let’s see who blinks first , the mistakes made in the last Holyrood election won’t be repeated , this getting sideswiped by the BBC won’t be allowed again .

    46. Thepnr says:

      @Effigy

      The best information I have found describing what “waiting times” are is in a Briefing Report from Feb 2017 published by the HoC library. The are more than one type of measure though.

      You do get to see a comparison also between Scotland’s NHS and England’s. Might not tell you a lot that’s new though worth a read just to be better informed I’d say.

      http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN06964/SN06964.pdf

    47. Ann Rayner says:

      I got an invite too. Asked them to give me some ideas to pass on to the unconvinced as to why Scotland is better in the Union. Watch this space….

    48. shiregirl says:

      Robert Kerr / Dan Huil / Dr Jim

      Tempted (for a laugh) to attend and meet the Yoony Z list but it’s a long way from Cullen.

      But rubbing shoulders with all those swivel eyed yoons. What a night it would be. Anyone? 😀

    49. K1 says:

      Y’know, how could the reason from the perspective of ‘leadership cult’, that people voted for in any given party be one that the SNP would have a high score on? Nicola didn’t and doesn’t get the same coverage as Davidson got during the campaign?

      If Nicola Sturgeon did get the same coverage I’m almost certain those figures would be greatly improved on that front. Would go as far as saying that the SNP’s increase in that department would have generally increased the overall vote.

      Davidson was pushed into everyone’s living rooms on the lead up too, so the ‘exposure’ is the issue here.

      It’s all about keeping that ‘core’ group of fearties in place. The Tory policies are UK wide, SConservatives are the handmaidens of Westminster Tory policies in Scotland, they deflect from that reality by continually attacking the SNP as if they are the cause of all the problem in all the sectors affected by Tory austerity in Scotland.

      And that’s what we need to continuously focus on, Scottish Tory voters are backing Tory government policies at a great cost to the very fabric of Scottish society, where they are a minority party by a long shot in Scotland and only received increased vote share by electing bigots and incompetent right wing nutters into WM last year. All this on the back of a one issue campaign solely focused on ‘nae indy referendum’.

      SNP policies are what is keeping Scotland safe from those Tory policies and no amount of spinning SNP bad from the rags and Reporting Scotland and STV alters or decreases that ‘FACT’ remotely as these figure testify.

      The Tory voters are doing okay under the SNP too. They are suffering from cognitive dissonance, they want all the benefits that living in Scotland brings to them and their families and at the same time they want all the austerity that their chosen party’s policies inflict on Scotland, mostly affecting those less well off than they are. By voting Tory they are also making it increasingly likely that the very benefits they now partake of courtesy of the SNP, will be ripped away from them if the Tories got into power at Holyrood.

      Bunch of fucking idiots, the lot of them.

    50. call me dave says:

      Radio shortbread waxing lyrical re: Queenie and the ‘two’ crowns
      there and the Coronation 1953.

      Richard Fitz-williams the royal expert is asked about any Scottish connection??? which he obviously is trying to avoid hardly mentioning the Scottish Crown Jewels or the fact that Queenie had to click her shoes and get the royal train toot-sweet up to Edinburgh asap to be crowned the ‘Queen of Scots’.

      Aye Good old experts on Shortbread! 🙁

    51. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      shiregirl @ 17:40,

      I’m with Robert Kerr @ 17:47 on this one. What an opportunity to discover who’s there and what they’re up to. GO. Talk to as many as possible, be charming and think of Scotland. (Like medical procedures, just consider it a peculiar form of entertainment! =grin=)

      Then give us all the gen afterwards. Should be quite a hoot!

    52. shiregirl says:

      Robert J. Sutherland says @ 6:05

      take one for the team?

      I would need to be inebriated. Or on the cusp. Too much and I would go into vile nat mode and my cover would be blown 😉

    53. CameronB Brodie says:

      Hence the importance of coupling Brexit with indy. If we’re still playing the game post-Brexit, we land on the last snake head and slide right back to square one.

      Precicely. Post-Brexit will most probably result in austerity on stilts and the disassembling of Scotland’s organs of government, including Scotland’s public health and welfare systems. Scottish society will become more divided and our traditionally, communitarian culture further eroded to accommodate the more individualist nature of English culture, which is predominantly Tory in outlook, if not political affiliation. England’s cultural imperialism over Scotland will be complete, all in the name of Britain and the values of decency, of course. All that will be needed after that, is to bayonet the wounded.

    54. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry for the poor grammar, I was in a rush. 😉

    55. Movy says:

      I see, according to the MSM, that Ruth Davidson is staying put in Scotland. Pity

    56. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      shiregirl @ 18:21,

      Know exactly what you mean. Red mist descending and all that. =grin= TBH, don’t think I could endure it…!

    57. Ealasaid says:

      @ Scot Finlayson

      I have always understood Ulsterisation to mean the division of a country in the way that Ulster was divided off from the rest of Ireland. I take this to be because the 2 strongly held opposing positions in different geographical areas, can no longer exist peacefully within the single country.

      I have taken it to imply that disagreements within the country could be exacerbated deliberately by certain sections to cause this division.

    58. Morgatron says:

      That was a 5 min party political broadcast by the BBC and the mooth.Im fucking scunnerd by these twisted bastards.

    59. Gary45% says:

      A tale of two leaders?
      There is only one worthy of the Leaders accolade.
      The other is a two arsed pantomime horse.(plenty of work for “Blimp the mooth” at Christmas, when she eventually gets found out.)

    60. Sinky says:

      Morgatron says:@ 6.44

      Agreed saw that Reporting Scotland puff for Ruth.

      No hard questions on Westminster’s Power Grab or her changing position on Brexit or the bad deal for fishing.

      Also no TV apology for Sarah Smith’s 200,000 missed A & E targets.

    61. Vietnamisation,

      Nixon said `Vietnamization` had two components. The first was
      “strengthening the armed force of the South Vietnamese in numbers, equipment, leadership and combat skills”, while the second was “the extension of the pacification program, supplying military aid to civilians in South Vietnam.”

      Ulsterisation, (The name of the policy comes from a similar US strategy towards the end of the Vietnam War called “Vietnamisation,)

      it refers to one part “primacy of the police” of a three-part strategy (the other two being “normalisation” and “criminalisation”) of the British government during the conflict known as the Troubles,

      The strategy was to disengage the non-Ulster regiments of the British Army as much as possible from duties in Northern Ireland and replace them with members of the locally recruited Royal Ulster Constabulary and Ulster Defence Regiment.The objective of this policy was to confine the effects of the conflict to Northern Ireland,

      Ulsterisation brought about striking changes in the casualty patterns, with military/police casualties from Northern Ireland exceeding those from Britain for the rest of the conflict, reversing the previous pattern,

      basically means using the locals to do the dirty work and die so as to limit negative criticism at home,

      the West are still at it even though the process has produced some of the World`s worst terrorist organisations.

    62. galamcennalath says:

      So 31% of Tories support their party’s policies in a general election.

      I don’t believe that, at all.

      I’m not suggestion that’s not how they responded to the poll. But I do know from personal experience that it is very rare for Tory voters to actually name any policy they like, other than maintain their UK.

      Ask a Tory face to face to say which policies attract them to that party … and rarely can they answer coherently.

      What I do believe is that Tory voters (Union and Indy aside) have some vague notion that the Tories are for people just like them and from that they have faith that their interests will be looked after.

      That disconnect means that some actual policies might well not be in their interests!

    63. Robert Peffers says:

      Bradford Millar says: 12 January, 2018 at 5:52 pm:

      “personally i don’t think the SNP has lost support … their last two campaigns were terrible the message was muddled and none knew what they were campaigning on … Derek MacKay as leader of those 2 campaigns should shoulder a lot of the blame for SNPs poor performance in the council and general election.”

      Rubbish! The SNP and Greens were the only parties that stood as electing MPs to go to Westminster to represent the electorate in their respective constituencies for the General Election. It was A GENERAL ELECTION whose sole purpose was to elect MPs to represent constituencies at Westminster.

      Even if the Greens did, as was their right, stand candidates against the SNP.

      The rest colluded together on a stance that had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with electing MPs in a General Election to represent constituency, or Scottish Issues in the parliament of the two partner United Kingdom.

      In the council elections the campaigns were supposed to be to elect councillors to represent the electors at the local council and thus all about local issues – nothing whatsoever to do with BRUKEXIT, Westminster, Holyrood, independence or Uncle Tom Cobleigh and all, and all.

      But, of course the trolls have to get in with SNP BAAAD when all is said and done.

      “the message was muddled and none knew what they were campaigning on … “

      Then the fault is clearly that of the sheer personal ignorance of any voter who could not work out the simple facts that A General Election’s ONLY function is to elect Members of the United Kingdom Parliament at Westminster and, strangely enough, it is impossible for a GE to do anything else. Furthermore, Council elections are ONLY ever going to elect councillors to represent the electors in the ward the candidate stands in – nothing else.

      “Derek MacKay as leader of those 2 campaigns should shoulder a lot of the blame for SNPs poor performance in the council and general election.” Oh! So you admit you knew it was a general Election and a local council election yet you draw the rather strange illogical conclusion that Derek MacKay was somehow to blame for being the only campaign leader from the Scottish Political parties who fought the campaign properly?

      Come on! Pull the other leg.

      In real actual fact the campaign as fought by the unionists was a total farce and anyone fooled into believing otherwise only exposes their stupidity by being fooled by it. The stupidity was being strongly pushed by the dead tree press, the broadcasters and what operated as a single united kingdom unionist party against the SNP and note the united unionist party slogan “No Second Independence Referendum. That clearly warned any person with enough brain cells to cause synapse that they were attempting to fool them.

    64. Petra says:

      O/T

      Kezia Dugdale has announced (STV news) that she received £70,000 (before tax) for making a mug of herself in the jungle. She’s donating £5000 of that plus her three weeks wages to charity. The £5000 making up for the same amount that she previously stated, before the jungle fiasco, that she’d be donating to charity and then scrubbed it off. Kezia Dugdale now known as a miserly, wee con woman.

    65. Ken500 says:

      The SNP are head and shoulders above the rest. No one needs convincing. They are still winning every time. Never being defeated. The twisted Unionist politicans gang together to maliciously try to undermind them. The 3rd rejects cannot even compete never mind defeat the SNP.

      Just keep on voting SNPSNP. Vote for Independence.

      Everything is on the up. People who do not vote have no right to complain. At the Westminster repeated failure.

      The SNHS would be in the same state as the rest of the UK. If the SNP Gov had not put in more funding to mitigate the Tory healthcare cuts and put in the necessary extra funding. The Tories have cut NHS funding £4Billion a year from 2015 to 2020. £20Billion They have put in £2Billion to counteract the mess they are making.

      The Holyrood budget was genius. Money used to mitigate the cuts and support essential services. The unionists do not support. If they get anywhere near Holyrood. The unionist mess will just get worse. Brexit will finish them off. The Tories in the wilderness for thirty years, especially in Scotland. If the unionists get into power, goodness help people in Scotland. The damage that they do runs down the Scottish/world economy every single day. .

    66. mike cassidy says:

      OT

      But this is worth reading.

      Well done, young Scots!

      Enfranchise them and they will vote!

      http://archive.is/jVTCi

    67. Robert Peffers says:

      @shiregirl says: 12 January, 2018 at 6:03 pm:

      “Tempted (for a laugh) to attend and meet the Yoony Z list but it’s a long way from Cullen.”

      Whoa! There, Girl. The main object of these do’s is to raise funding and there are no freebies. They usually charge, (steeply), for the pleasure of mixing with the toffs and then they raffle of rather expensive and exotic foreign events.

    68. North chiel says:

      “Movy@0629pm” “ Ruthie staying in Scotland” , as she has no other option . The previous “ hysteria” in the media about her being a future leader of the let’s be honest English Tory party would never be tolerated by the “ sneering Tory establishment toffs” down there who might tolerate her at party conference “ making an oaf of herself “ and gleaning a “ laugh from her betters” ( as they unquestionably see themselves) . A recent “ glum looking Ruthie” signifies to me that the “ penny has finally dropped” and she now realised she has been “ played like a fiddle” by the English Tory hierarchy , “ leader of the jocks” is as far as she goes , unless she grovels for a few more years and is nominated by her betters for ermine. If not no doubt she will be offered a job with her old state “ SNP bad” propagandist employers

    69. Robert Peffers says:

      @Movy says: 12 January, 2018 at 6:29 pm:

      “I see, according to the MSM, that Ruth Davidson is staying put in Scotland. Pity.

      No, Movy, that claim came right from the mare’s mouth itself on the Radio Jockland interview. Now the facts speak for themselves as my wee pal puts it, “Ye canna trust onythin ava yon wee fat lyin bastirt says, ye ken”.

    70. brewsed says:

      @shiregirl says: 12 January, 2018 at 6:03 pm:
      There is a much better, and closer, option – Burns Night with Eck in Buckie on 20 Jan.

    71. shiregirl says:

      Robert Peffers says:
      12 January, 2018 at 8:26 pm

      Yes, too rich for my taste! But I would love a look inside their world and have a wee laugh….I could never understand their mindset but part of me wants to try to figure out what makes them think the way they do. Does that make sense?

    72. Macart says:

      @Smallaxe

      Mr Smith isn’t wrong and neither is M. Barnier. I don’t think ‘busy’ quite describes what happens next.

    73. shiregirl says:

      brewsed says:
      12 January, 2018 at 9:03 pm
      @shiregirl says: 12 January, 2018 at 6:03 pm:
      There is a much better, and closer, option – Burns Night with Eck in Buckie on 20 Jan.

      Yes – seen that. Sounds a good night. And cheaper taxi.

    74. Smallaxe says:

      Macart, Hi,

      My thoughts also, more like uncontrolled chaos. We really do have to get out, ASAP.

      Btw, Unionist = Enemy no matter what colour.

    75. wull2 says:

      Don’t reply to any Burns Invite’s you get,
      They are more than likely throwing something into the pool as ground bate to find out what emails are active and give a answer.

    76. johnj says:

      The Grin will be off as soon as she gets a safe constituency offer from English Tories.

    77. Les Wilson says:

      What really shows the subjugation of Scotland is how many of the britnat cult is sown into every institution in Scotland, they are in, almost, at the top of every major institution.

      Is that a coincidence? For many many years perhaps hundreds of years they are involved at all levels in the lives of Scots, every Scottish whatever has the english deeply installed. Museums, The national trust for Scotland, the Edinburgh Festival, the Unions etc etc. Such is the way they hold us down, by infiltration.

      Occupation just not by name, these people are a cancer to Scotland. They like the life here and yes they happily take what whatever they can from SG policies without complaint. Yet the majority work against us, some get it and will join us not hinder us. However, the resettlement of English to Scotland goes on unabated, such as it always has been it still is.

      We need somehow regain all our institutions and make them work for the people of Scotland, by not working to a Westminster colonial set up. We need that done now, Indy is the only way, come yea haste.

    78. Macart says:

      @Smallaxe

      I’m pretty much done respecting results myself at this point.

    79. Thepnr says:

      There was a YouGov poll in July of last year that asked similar questions as to why people voted Tory or Labour. There were quite a few more options offered though than the Rev’s poll.

      Interestingly only 5% of Tories voted because of Theresa May, the largest group at 21% said Brexit was their reason. I suppose this could be expected as achieving Brexit is much higher in the list of Tory priorities of those voters in England than it is in Scotland.

      The Labour results are interesting too, most by a large margin much like an SNP voter say they chose Labour because of their policies (do they have any?) and 13% because Labour was led by Jeremy Corbyn.

      Is this information of any use? I would guess that it is though I’ve yet to figure out why LOL.

      https://archive.is/Tj8Rg

    80. Smallaxe says:

      Macart,

      AUOB march 5th May 2018 Kelvingrove to George Square.

      We need to put so many people on the streets that we can’t be ignored, It’s the only way to get the word out to the general public. We need nurses, firemen, police etc. to try and wake people up.

    81. Bob Mack says:

      @Les Wilson,

      It is no coincidence that Unionists were always in top jobs. It was made so. I remember when there were many companies who would not hire anybody who was not COS.
      Today’s police force still have issues around freemasonry at the top and senior levels.

      A state only controls the elements that make up the Establishment by deliberately incorporating them into such.
      Think of all the people who now get OBE’so CBE’ s and suchlike. It makes them turn. Look at Billy Connoly (Sir).

      Used to detest the royals did Billy. Look at him now. Assimilated. Billy was a funny guy but learned about comedy from a guy in the yards who was called “the fish”.

      Cheap at the price.

    82. Robert Peffers says:

      @Macart says: 12 January, 2018 at 9:08 pm:

      “Mr Smith isn’t wrong and neither is M. Barnier. I don’t think ‘busy’ quite describes what happens next.”

      On the day the UK announced they were going to Brexit, (mind you at that time they hadn’t thought up the utterly stupid term, “Brexit”. The stupid part is that no matter what deal, or no deal, is the outcome, only at most the UK parts of Britain will be leaving the EU. The UK isn’t Britain it is only British by being parts of Britain.

      But I digress, On that day I said that under no circumstances would the EU allow the UK a good deal – if any. I based that opinion upon the whole ethos that is the EU. It exists for only one main reason and everything else is because of that one reason. Our common history until the EU was one of constant warfare and the original union was designed to stop European World Wars.

      Upon the formation in its present form it is not only the World’s largest free trade zone but has become a very democratic political union with common laws and aims but the ethos is of equality of citizenship of the peoples of the EU.

      So every EU Citizen is also a citizen of their home country. Now you cannot separate these two citizenships or you break the EU. The EU must be able to equally protect each of its citizens and they cannot do that with one member state exiting the EU but cherry picking which EU rules it will accept and will not accept. Or put another way, you cannot half-Exit the EU.

      You can either be in or out- The UK cannot choose to accept just the rules it likes and reject those it doesn’t like.

    83. Thepnr says:

      @Bob Mack

      There have always been plenty of very funny guys in Scotland like “the fish” you talk of. I worked in the early 80’s on the rigs with a guy who had the nickname “Bad News”. Because that’s all he ever spoke about was bad news, not just that but he made it all up. Every story he told you was a lie but he made it seem realistic.

      Could tell a tall tale and be very funny with it though. I wonder if Better Together ever got him on their books pre 2014 🙂

    84. Macart says:

      @Smallaxe

      Date marked.

      @Robert Peffers

      Ditto Robert. They could not and would not undermine the very charter the EU is built upon. The four freedoms. The UK, or those parts of the UK hell bent on self harm, will not be allowed to endanger the four freedoms. All the boneheads who insisted that the EU needed the UK’s business, that negotiation would sort it all out in their favour? If phase one of the talks left them a little grumpy, then they’re in for a hell of a shock as phase two progresses.

    85. carjamtic says:

      ….I’ve never seen a haggis knifing itself before..

    86. Iain says:

      A long, long, long, long time ago I surmised that Ruth Davidson was a nice girl who had just got in with the wrong crowd. But that sentiment was indeed a long, long time ago.

    87. Bob Mack says:

      Is the front page story in the National true about Marks and Spencer telling a customer

      “You’ve had your referendum and you lost, you’re part of England now”

      Is this for real? If it is they have lost a very very good customer, plus his missus.

    88. Bobp says:

      Bob mack.i see marks and Spencer’s profits were well down over Xmas. What a shame.

    89. Marie Clark says:

      Smallaxe, Dumfries 2nd June. Date noted, look forward to more details nearer the time.

    90. galamcennalath says:

      @Bob Mack

      Link about M&S?

      One of the many thing which grates in me with M&S is the way they correctly label Scotch Beef, which is a PGI (Protected Geographical Indication) on some of their beef, but the rest as British Beef.

      Where is British Beef supposed to originate? Can’t be Scotland because then it would have the important PGI.

      If it’s English, then say so. Or Welsh. If it’s from Northern Ireland it must be Irish, of course.

      I have absolutely no problem buying produce labelled English. Nice apples for instance, which are much better than watery French ones,

      I object to ‘British’. It’s like something labelled ‘Produce of Europe’. Nope. I need my food source to be a bit more specific.

    91. Thepnr says:

      galamcennalath

      Front page of the National, not a joke.

      https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/951931047985414145

    92. Robert Peffers says:

      @Bob Mack says: 12 January, 2018 at 10:57 pm:

      “Is this for real? If it is they have lost a very very good customer, plus his missus.”

      Do you mean this, Bob Mack?

      :-

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/15631673.Marks_and_Spencer_promoted__English__or__British__whisky_____but_refused_to_use__Scottish_/

    93. Smallaxe says:

      Marie Clark,

      I hope to see you there Marie, I also intend to be at the Glasgow rally. The more the merrier.
      😉

    94. Smallaxe says:

      Thepnr,

      Damn right it’s not a joke, it’s the ignorance of arrogance. Time to close these places down, don’t put a penny in the pockets of any establishment that would see our country subsumed into this total fuckup of Fascism.

      We will have the last laugh when these jokers are begging for our custom and our Scottish produce.

    95. heedtracker says:

      Good read. Ultimately we can speculate how different Scotland and England will be in say a Brexit decade.

      Even IF it does look like BBC Scotland may not get the SNP out by 2021, the English tories look they’re going to be in power for a long time too.

      What a bizarre New Labour legacy.

    96. Davie Oga says:

      Les Wilson says:
      12 January, 2018 at 9:42

      This post touches upon a very uncomfortable truth. There’s no easy way to change things either. Especially as any attempt to promote indigenes into positions of cultural influence will be decried as anti-English racism.

    97. ScotsRenewables says:

      Well, I know one thing – I am certainly not English any more. 50 years of living in Scotland has taken its toll.

      Just had my brother up from the deep south and had to throw him out of the house. Peddling anti-Islam hate speech about how the Muslim population of Europe is going to be over 50% by 2050 and other Britain First crap.

      This guy used to be an anarchist dope smoking freethinker, anti-establishment rebel etc. Too many years as a pilot married to a bookkeeper and living in Little England and as an expat in the sandpit has apparently taken its toll.

      Quite frightening when it is close up and personal.

    98. Patrick Roden says:

      RE: EU.

      I was watching 24 hour BBC news channel last year, the day that parliament was opening (I think).

      Someone from Brussels was being interviewed about Brexit, and he suddenly pointed out a large building behind the interview venue and asked the interviewer if thy knew what it was. (she didn’t)

      He then began to say that the building was the EU ‘Clearing-House’ for all the financial transactions to and from within the EU and that UK Financial trading went through this ‘Clearing-House’ largely ‘unregulated’

      He started to say that this would no longer be the case after Brexit as the UK would need to pay the Clearing-House for each trading exchange.

      Just then the BBC interviewer interrupted the guy, saying ‘sorry we must go over to London as something is happening’ at which the screen cut to inside the Houses of parliament, where absolutely nothing was happening!

      What the viewer saw was A few people dotted around waiting for the action to begin, with a close up of Dennis Skinner and some comment about how he traditionally makes an insulting comment every time ‘Black Rod’ enters the building.

      Did they cut back to the interview when they saw that nothing was in fact happening?

      Did they hell!

      If the EU charge for every financial transaction, the bottom will fall out of the UK financial markets and that will throw the UK stock exchange into a melt-down.

      High interest rates, mortgage failures, repossessions, bankruptcies the list goes on.

      Better Together? Hmmmmmm!

    99. Dr Jim says:

      @ScotsRenewables

      I’ve got family exactly the same but they don’t come to Scotland anymore they say they would’nt come here now because of that Sturgeon woman that we all hate and can’t get rid of and the Anti English Nats roaming the streets
      Coz we know that’s just what it’s like eh
      They feel sorry for me that I’ve been taken in by the vileness

      They feel sorry for meeeee?

    100. CameronB Brodie says:

      Re. who control Scottish cultural heritage and anti-English racism. I hate to sound as if I’m trying to sell critical realism but it does come in handy. The present day is not isolated from history. Cultural institutions often embody the ethnic stereotyping and cultural prejudices long-thought of as in the past. Such institutionalised prejudice will affect decision making and influence the direction of policy so as to undermine minority rights and influence (see Westminster, also Neil Oliver).

      Remember, Britain is an ideological construct. It is the product of three centuries of methodological nationalism, supported by an impressive and predominantly English culture industry.

      Is nationalism left or right? Critical junctures in Quebecois nationalism

      ABSTRACT.

      Sub-state nationalist parties of the industrialised West occupy different positions along the left–right political spectrum. Despite the similarities of their political agendas, these parties adopt different ideological identities. This paper seeks to explain the choice of party position and the long-term consistency of these positions by employing a path-dependent perspective. The focus is first, on the critical junctures during which such choices are made; and second, on the mechanisms of continuity ensuring the persistence of the left–right identities. The argument is explored within the empirical context of Quebecois nationalism.

      http://media.leidenuniv.nl/legacy/Erk%20-%20Nations%20and%20Nationalism.pdf

      Uncertainty and path dependence
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKfkQW7_-Pg

      Seventh nations and nationalism debate: Joep Leerssen’s National Thought in Europe: A Cultural History
      http://www.allardpiersonmuseum.nl/binaries/content/assets/faculteiten/faculteit-der-geesteswetenschappen/disciplines/europese-studies/recente-publicaties-europese-studies/seventh-nations-and-nationalism-debate-joep-leerssens-national-thought-in-europe-a-cultural-history.pdf

    101. yesindyref2 says:

      OT – Defence
      Interesting article in UKDJ about an RM exercise this past week off Kyle, Kishorn and Mallaig, with the LCACs I mentioned a few weeks back.

      https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/royal-marines-raid-scotland/

      It occurs to me that as well as having marines for offshore support such as rigs, we’d also need them just in case in future some invader took over say from Gairloch to Ullapool and needed to be driven back into the sea! Very limited access if any from land once they were established. So probably a larger marine force than might otherwise be thought neccessary. Duties would then include the increasingly accessible Arctic in future.

    102. Ghillie says:

      Does anyone remember, a couple of years ago maybe, a thinktank set up by someone in the House of Lords to look at ways to promote ‘Britishness’ and suppress ‘Scottishness’?

      Their document ran on for dozens of pages. Made chilling reading.

      This latest wiping out of Scotland as the country of origin for Scottish Whisky fits right in with that agenda and plan.

      Also, isn’t the very word ‘Whisky’ protected specifically for the Scottish Whisky?

      What is spectacularly difficult to believe is the gross stupidity of the M&S spokesperson who made that very insulting statement that Scotland was now just a part of England.

      No matter how bigotted and resentful of Scotland he may be in private,to attach that statement to his place of work was, I think a sacking offence.

      Marks & Spencers owe Scotland an apology.

      An apology that will only be believable and genuine when M&S rectify EVERY mislabeling of Scottish produce.

      Gauntlet thrown down M&S.

    103. CameronB Brodie says:

      Back on topic. (t)Ruthless Harrison may have a compassionate message of modern Conservatism but her party follows a neo-liberal line that adds to health inequality. I’d suggest this ‘working-class’ woman doesn’t understand the agenda her party promotes i.e. authoritarian nationalism mixed with social Darwinism (see Brexit and Austerity).

      A post-colonial perspective can help shed light on modernist discourse, to help determine whether they are emancipatory or neo-liberal and colonial.

      Irish Studies, Colonial Questions:
      Locating Ireland in the Colonial World

      ….The popularity of modernization discourse in both politics and academic milieu is at least partially explained by its discursive suppleness, and by its consequent capacity to lend itself to a wide range of political positions and agendas.12 ‘Modernity as such,’ Franceis Mulhern coments,’has no necessary social content: it is form of “temporalisation”, an invariant production of present, past and future that “valorise the new” and, by that very act, “produce the old”, along with the characteristic modes of its embrace, the distinctively modern phenomena of traditionalism and reaction.13

      https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/arts/english/currentstudents/pg/masters/modules/postcol_theory/cleary_locating_irl.pdf

    104. K1 says:

      Right…a wee bit of confusion going down here.

      This is tomorrow’s (today’s) front page of the National:

      https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/951931047985414145

      This is Robert’s (Peffers) link, in response to Bob’s (Mack) query about whisky being under the ‘British’ category on m&s website:

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/15631673.Marks_and_Spencer_promoted__English__or__British__whisky_____but_refused_to_use__Scottish_/

      The former is just the front page, not the article. The latter is from the National on the 1st November 2017.

      I mistakenly read the former believing it to be the same story. It may well turn out to be a follow up on the original person who initially emailed M&S about their website’s categorisations regarding Scottish produce, from the November article, it may not be.

      I’ve fired off emails tae pals etc saying boycott M&S on the back of the November article as I did not read the date and assumed they were one and the same article,

      Subsequently ah’ve demoted maself tae unalert reader status and for ma sins will now have to follow up with the new article to justify ma ire and demands that aw ma pals boycott them. A task I’m happily prepared to do, because a) I did not see the original article at the time and b) this second article highlights that there is clearly still some major issue with m&s and their branding of Scottish produce as British. Ergo M&S can get tae fuck and I definitely will be boycotting them and encouraging everyone else who gives a damn about our country and our produce to do likewise.

      Scottish produce suppliers to M&S should do likewise. They too will find their goods lying on M&S shelf’s unsold if they don’t.

      Absolutely disgusting behaviour from M&S, I await the current article to read exactly what the jumped up fuckers have being saying to enquiring customers regarding our produce being re categorised under British whilst England’s produce and other countries produce is categorised by country of origin. In effect they are damaging our brand…which is worldwide and renowned.

      We are not a fucking region of England, we are a thousand year old Kingdom with a phenomenal history of providing world class produce around the world. And if some jumped up little wanker thought he/she can get away with the response they’ve given to a customer rightly pointing out a cardinal error in terms of correctly assigning country of origin categorisation to Scottish produce by writing to that customer ‘You’ve had your referendum and you’re part of England now’ they are in for a huge shock.

      M&S are finished in Scotland, I don’t care how much they attempt to grovel out of it and say it was some lowly little cog…their original website issue regarding the exact same issue from November was only resolved when the National intervened. This speaks to a deliberate attempt to null and void Scotland as a nation, to relegate us to a region of Britain whilst promoting England and other countries produce under their correct designations. Fucking outrageous.

      Boycott campaign needed. Immediately.

    105. Elmac says:

      Re K1 @ 4.54

      Have boycotted M&S for years, Why pay double the price just for their arrogant label? Would never shop there – the sooner they are consigned to the dustbin of history the better.

    106. K1 says:

      I’ve just read the front page article. Aye they are blaming a cog that doesn’t work there anymore. The woman who wrote to them on the back of the November 1st article saying how awful that they were labelling Scottish Whisky as British but whisky from south of the border as English, she had noted in her letter to them that ‘it could be seen as an insult to Scottish people’.

      She then received the ‘rambling’ and ‘incoherent’ reply from customer services. She was prompted to contact the National now on the back of m&s’s failing profits and thinks M&S ‘need to be told why they’re losing money’.

      M&S spokeswoman says she’s ‘horrified and appalled’ by the customer service response and that senior management are taking it seriously.

      National also notes M&S along with b&q and timpson shoes warned against yes vote during campaign.

      ————————————

      My original assertion still stands. They deliberately altered their categories until the National intervened in November. This belated information merely confirms a culture of nasty vindictiveness at a corporate level.

      I wish too though that the woman had shown this letter to the National when she received it, we would have had a clearer picture of what has been taking place within that company and the attitudes of it’s employees since the referendum, as it is it is still a relevant piece of testimony to the poisonous culture that exists in M&S regarding Scotland’s place in the UK.

      The person who wrote it on behalf of M&S should be named and shamed. They represented that company when they replied to Ms Davidson’s complaint back in November. Are we seriously to believe that there was no supervisor overseeing emails to customers to ensure M&S values and professionalism are upheld, or is it more likely that this was a supervisor with some leeway and cocky self regard who thought himself above criticism?

      That part is neither here nor there. The fact remains M&S refused to correct their original policy of altering Scottish country of origin when the original complainant brought it to their attention and only altered it when the National intervened last November.

      They deserve their losses and I’m with Ms Davidson on this, they brought their losses on themselves and deserve to lose custom in Scotland. They have attempted to undermine our brands and reputation. That horrible little response merely confirms they are employing complete arseholes and have attempted to politicise our produce and reduce us to a region of Britian whilst promoting ‘English’ produce on their website. How much has Scotland’s brand been damaged by this blatant attempt to wipe out Scotland as a country of origin on their website and produce?

      They can fuck right off. Boycott now.

    107. mr thms says:

      With regard to integration of health and social care services, I have just been reading the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party Shadow health secretary Miles Briggs would like Scotland to follow Norway’s health model.

      I’m beginning to think the opposition parties are thinking independence is coming.

    108. TheItalianJob says:

      OT

      Yes we are too poor.

      The UK North Sea will enjoy a bumper year for production and new project sanctions in 2018, a new report says.

      Energy consultancy Wood Mackenzie (Woodmac) said final investment decisions (FIDs) for up 14 projects are expected this year, the most since 2013.

      FIDs include Premier Oil’s Tolmount project, Shell’s Penguins area redevelopment and Nexen’s phase two development of the Buzzard field.

      Production is forecast to reach 1.9million barrels per day, the highest level since 2010, thanks to the ramping up of fields brought online last year.

    109. Dorothy Devine says:

      Italianjob, I take it that news is all over the BBBBC website and every ‘Scottish’ newspaper ??

      As far as Marks and Spencers is concerned I will now completely avoid the place – not that they will notice.

    110. TheItalianJob says:

      @Dorothy Devine

      No. Nothing on the BBC main News, Business news or Scottish news.

      Though on the Business news they do report that Oil has “Hit a new 3 year high of $70”.

      But now mention of bumper year for production and projects in Scotland for 2018.

      Maybe afraid of the following prediction by a financial analyst Jim Rogers on the effect of Scotland leaving the U.K. and the implications for the pound.

      “Scotland leaving the U.K. will push the pound down to 80 cents.”

    111. Robert Peffers says:

      @Elmac says: 13 January, 2018 at 5:30 am:

      “Have boycotted M&S for years, Why pay double the price just for their arrogant label? Would never shop there – the sooner they are consigned to the dustbin of history the better

      The last time I bought anything from M&S was around 1970/1. They were on the slide even then.

    112. Its really frustrating at times trying to figure out the logic behind peoples thinking when it comes to them voting in elections.

      I had people tell me they like SNP policies but won’t vote SNP and there others who vote SNP but don’t support independence.

      As for Labour what can you say, I for one haven’t seen any original thinking from them for decades, they keep peddling the same meaningless sound bites time after
      time.

    113. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Beautiful stuff from The National on M&S. Looks like I’ve got to persuade a relative to stop the habit of a lifetime.

      Also just realised Ruth Davidson is the Mouth of Sauron.

    114. Smallaxe says:

      Reluctant Nationalist says:

      “Also just realised Ruth Davidson is the Mouth of Sauron”.

      I must correct you on that point RN. Ruth Davidson is the Arse of Sauron.
      😉

    115. Petra says:

      For those who don’t buy / read the National, they’ve been running a ‘protect Scottish brand name’ for months now with vigilant supporters sending them data / photographs from a number of shops. Also publishing articles from concerned farmers and so on. If you want to know what’s going on in Scotland buy the National.

    116. jfngw says:

      Is Annie Wells still working part time at M&S?

    117. Jack Murphy says:

      Petra said at 11:33 am
      “For those who don’t buy / read the National, they’ve been running a ‘protect Scottish brand name’ for months now with vigilant supporters sending them data / photographs from a number of shops.

      Also publishing articles from concerned farmers and so on. If you want to know what’s going on in Scotland buy the National.”

      I haven’t subscribed or bought The National but this is the nearest I can find re their campaign:

      4th November 2017
      “The National launches new campaign: It’s time to Save Our Scotland Brand”. 🙂

      https://tinyurl.com/y8dvkcg3

    118. Ottomanboi says:

      @CameronB Brodie
      ‘ethnic stereotyping’….might you be referring to those Scots who must wear a kilt etc to a wedding or attend an international sports event wearing a comedy fuzzy red wig (and kilt) or politicians who say self-reliance isn’t in the national DNA (Lamont) or joke that if its not nailed down a Scot will half-inch it (Davidson addressing an English Tory audience) ?

    119. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ottomanboi
      Them as well. 😉

      CFP: New Perspectives on Imagology, Wien (07.01.2018)

      Section 1: Rethinking Images: Imagology & Cognitive Sciences

      Stereotype/ethnotype, image, and cliché are omnipresent terms in imagology. They point to complex interdisciplinary questions about how we make sense of the world, which are not only situated in the field of comparative literature, but also in psychology, (intercultural) philosophy, and cognitive sciences. Oscillating between hetero-images and auto-images, the tendency to schematize is probably as old as humankind itself and, therefore, suitable to be discussed in a broader context. This is reflected in a growing imagological interest in the underlying cognitive processes of social thinking and categorization. As Leerssen puts it:

      The cognitive-psychological model of “frames” and “triggers” has deepened our understanding of ethnotyping, and of stereotyping in general. […] The experience of “triggers” activating pre-existing explanatory “frames” is close to the hermeneutics of reader response theory, the “frame” being fairly close to the social-psychological notion of prejudice, or what Jauss would call an Erwartungshorizont or horizon of expectation. (2016, 24)

      https://networks.h-net.org/node/79435/discussions/897963/cfp-new-perspectives-imagology-wien-07012018

      The psychology behind globalism, nationalism & political tribalism – Jonathan Haidt
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWgM2gBRQrA

    120. CameronB Brodie says:

      Who said, “Scots are not genetically programmed to make political decisions”? Are they still active in politics?

      Nationalism, Patriotism, and Group Loyalty:
      A Social Psychological Perspective

      The purpose of this essay is to introduce the reader to a social psychological perspective on the roots of nationalism. At its heart is the description of how individuals develop feelings about and attachments to groups-how they build loyalty to groups. The review explores how such loyalty can lead to hostile reactions to other groups, can become translated into stereotypes that are shared by individuals, can shape the collective behavior of groups, and can help differentiate the multiple groups that define any political environment.

      http://bev.berkeley.edu/Ethnic%20Religious%20Conflict/Ethnic%20and%20Religious%20Conflict/2%20National%20Identity/Druckman%20nationalism.pdf

      Searle-White on Hogan, ‘Understanding Nationalism: On Narrative, Cognitive Science, and Identity’

      Nationalism and Narrative

      The disciplinary lenses we wear shape what we study and how we understand it. Patrick Colm Hogan brings a unique dimension to the study of nationalism as he looks at it through the eyes of someone trained in narrative analysis and interested in cognitive psychology. This perspective allows him to illuminate some areas of nationalism that might otherwise be kept in shadow.

      Hogan begins, as all writers on nationalism must, by defining “nationalism.” As he notes, many political scientists insist that nationalism must be connected to a nation-state, which is a relatively recent entity. Hogan disagrees, offering a very broad definition: “any form of in-group identification for a group defined in part by reference to a geographical area along with some form of sovereign government over that area” (p. 4). As a psychologist, I agree with him; nationalism is indeed a kind of identity that can be tied to the modern nation-state. But psychologically, nationalism is simply a variety of group identity, and so as Hogan points out, it makes perfect sense to talk about nationalism even for groups that may have existed before modern nation-states….

      https://networks.h-net.org/node/3911/reviews/5995/searle-white-hogan-understanding-nationalism-narrative-cognitive-science

      Differences in gray matter structure correlated to nationalism and patriotism

      Abstract

      Nationalism and patriotism both entail positive evaluations of one’s nation. However, the former inherently involves derogation of other nations, whereas the latter is independent of comparisons with other nations. We used voxel-based morphometry and psychological measures and determined nationalism and patriotism’s association with gray matter density (rGMD) and their cognitive nature in healthy individuals (433 men and 344 women; age, 20.7?±?1.9 years) using whole-brain multiple regression analyses and post hoc analyses. We found higher nationalism associated with greater rGMD in (a) areas of the posterior cingulate cortex and greater rGMD in (b) the orbitofrontal cortex, and smaller rGMD in (c) the right amygdala area.

      Furthermore, we found higher patriotism associated with smaller rGMD in the (d) rostrolateral prefrontal cortex. Post hoc analyses revealed the mean rGMD of the cluster (a) associated with compassion, that of (b) associated with feeling of superiority, that of [c] associated with suicide ideation, and that of (d) associated with quality of life. These results indicate that individual nationalism may be mediated by neurocognitive mechanisms in social-related areas and limbic neural mechanisms, whereas patriotism may be mediated by neurocognitive mechanisms in areas related to well-being.

      Introduction

      A recent study showed that political orientation (conservativeness–liberalism) is underlain by human brain structures such as the anterior cingulate cortex (ACC) and amygdala1. However, human political opinions have axes other than conservativeness–liberalism. In particular, nationalism as defined below is an important factor that has pushed much of the world into chaos and war2. Most studies related to nationalism focus on two factors: nationalism and patriotism3,4,5, both of which are associated with conservativeness in the US4, although there are other parallel political opinions. It has been argued that the distinction between nationalism and patriotism is important3,4. There are several ways of defining nationalism and patriotism, but one states that nationalism is an identification with and a positive evaluation of one’s nation, which is inherently related to derogation of other nations5. In contrast, patriotism is defined as pride in one’s nation, which is based on a positive evaluation of the nation independently of comparisons with other countries5….

      https://www.nature.com/articles/srep29912

    121. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      It was this excuse for a human being MSPs Johann Lamont (Former British Labour in Scotland Branch Manager) @CameronB Brodie says at 6:28 pm

      “Who said, “Scots are not genetically programmed to make political decisions”? Are they still active in politics”

      http://archive.is/HiI3g

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBH55ZeZU4w

      And Aye, she is still active in Scottish politics and will be speaking at Scotlan in Unions Burns Nicht Soiree.

      http://archive.is/Stg6x

    122. CameronB Brodie says:

      Jockanese Wind Talker
      Well I’d suggest her brand of self-hating prejudice will be most appreciated in SiU. 😉



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