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A different country

Posted on March 05, 2019 by

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    1. 05 03 19 11:56

      A different country | speymouth

    317 to “A different country”

    1. winifred mccartney says:

      Welcome aboard – great to have someone who can come out and tell us why they have changed their mind and be proud about it. I am proud of your courage because it is not easy to be so public about a change of mind.

    2. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Great to see the series on the move again. One of the most effective ways of changing minds, IMO, by the example of others who have already done it.

      Many more, please!

    3. Mik Magnusson says:

      Thank you for bringing this series to my attention. I was not aware of it before. No animosity. No jingoism. No arrogance. Just concern for the local community and its compassion. That marks, to me at least, the true Scottish attitude to our nation.

    4. Ken500 says:

      Maybe people getting these disgusting registration letters will turn the tide. (10%?) Absolutely unnecessary. It is heart breaking to see people treated this way.

      It is disgusting that the Tories have used 217,000 mainly foreign students (fully funded) coming to the UK to studying to manipulate the migration figures. Without including these figures. Migration is under 100,000. Ie 65,000. Of which 15,000 have protected status. Including 8,000 asylum seekers 1000 from Libya. A minuscule figure in a population of 62Million. 50,000 people.

      The Tories have manipulated this total chaos.

      They are using the Brexit mess to cut funding for essential services. They have cut NHS, Education and Welfare. Sanctioning and starving people. Wasting £Billions on HS2, Hinkley Point and Trident. A total waste of money.

      May is an ignorant, arrogant person supporting total corruption at Westminster.

    5. Black Joan says:

      Well said. Thank you!

    6. galamcennalath says:

      Excellent video.

      She highlights the extent to which the UK folks voted to stay with certainly isn’t the one that exists now. It’s not what they voted NO for.

      Sad, but the reality is that Tory vandalism, desecration, and chaos is helping the Indy cause. They are causing so much damage to the UK, who in their right minds would still want to be part of it?

    7. Robert Peffers says:

      When the very obvious hits you then you wonder why it took you so long to see the very obvious. Well done that young lady and welcome to the cause,

    8. Ken500 says:

      These letters going out could turn the tide in Scotland/UK. (10%). Imagine Labour going along with this nonsense. Just appalling.

    9. Tackety Beets says:

      A hundred thousand welcomes to Jenny Constable

      We all have a different view but to say
      “Scotland and England are not compatible, we want different things”

      That was the most striking comment from someone who a few years ago argued to stay under the boot of WM

      Welcome to all NO to YES folk.

    10. auld highlander says:

      Well done kid, it’s good to see that you have seen through the bare faced lies and London propaganda that fooled a lot of us for years.

    11. robin says:

      welcome aboard
      the great thing is that once you make the decision it makes such sense and theres no going back

    12. Dr Jim says:

      This young lady saw that she clearly made a mistake in 2014 but now has the courage to correct that mistake and it should be an example to others that changing your mind isn’t admitting you were stupid, it’s realising you were conned by professional con artists and you’re not going to let them get away with it again, let’s hope the rest of the folk who were taken advantage of in this way open their eyes and see what this young lady now sees, and good on her for going public about it

    13. Doreen A Milne says:

      That was very moving.

    14. bobajock says:

      Odd – there is not equivalent .. I voted ‘Yes’ – now I am no.

      wonder why eh?

    15. Luigi says:

      Oh dear – it seems that quite a few of those switching (having been sold a pup on Europe – thanks Ruth) are now more determined than ever to right the wrong. Some of them, like this intelligent young lady featured here, worked so hard for BT in 2014, and I think many will double their efforts to help us secure a YES vote.

      Intelligent, hard-working converts: What an asset for the cause. 🙂

      IF there is another ref that is – I am beginning to wonder some big surprises are ahead of us. 🙂

      Can’t wait to see the sour BritNats’ faces when they realise the game is, finally over.

    16. Luigi says:

      Do not underestimate the zeal of BT-Indy converts.

      Just wait and see what they bring to the campaign. 🙂

    17. Clootie says:

      I still find it hard to understand why anyone watching Brexit unfold would want to choose Westminster to decide their future.
      LibDem Scottish politicians will accept a Westminster Tory Brexit rather than Indpendence.
      Labour Scottish politicians will do what London HQ dictates.

      All of those previous countries under the Empire rule must be baffled by our reluctance to simply vote for that which they had to fight so hard for.

    18. robin says:

      I was stuffing independence leaflets through doors in elections 45 years ago. It warms my heart to the core to see us getting so close.

    19. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      bobajock @ 11:29,

      Well, there are unfortunately (though they don’t often shout it out). Those who have been captured by the anti-immigration rhetoric of the EUref. And whether we are in the EU or out, Nicola has (rightly) made it very clear that immigration is important for Scotland’s future, so it may be hard to get those folk back, this being such a dog-whistle issue.

      The bitter irony for such backsliders is that non-EU immigration into the UK remains as high as ever, for all the anti-immigration rhetoric. And the power to control that lies solely in the hands of… guess who…? UKGov, untramelled by any EU control whatever. As it always has been.

      But you would never guess that listening to the R4 lunchtime news, as I did the other day.

      And you can bet your house on “immigration” being an issue at IR2, since the BitterTogetherers have only scare left in their barren inventory of lies.

    20. jfngw says:

      I spotted the STV interview of Tove McDonald on twitter. She is 87 and has lived in Scotland for 59 years, now has to register or leave. These people can’t wait 10 years for independence, there is a good chance they may have passed on by then, in someplace they no longer consider home.

    21. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      jfngw @ 11:58,

      There is potential for a poll-tax-type civil disobedience campaign arising out of this. It’s not a good look for an awful lot of decent folk to see white-haired grannies being arrested by the authorities and threatened with summary deportation.

    22. skydiver says:

      Looks like knife crime across the “country” is the latest squirrel to be used by the English media to talk about anything other than Brexit.

    23. skydiver says:

      And when they say “country”, they really mean England.

    24. Wullie says:

      Aye we need people. I read an article recently on population trends in Scotland, it concluded that by 2040 there will be no one resident / living north and west of Inverness.

    25. Iain says:

      As robin at 11.19 says, once you’ve decided that you support independence, there’s no going back.

      An accumulation of information and observations brings you to the decision. Amongst the electorate, there will be a small number who might vote SNP tactically, but supporting independence runs so much against the grain of all that we are encouraged to think and believe that it is hard won, and unshakeable.

    26. geeo says:

      The most powerful aspect of these No to Yes stories, is that the folk involved are not just sharing on places like here, but they are having direct conversations with family, friends etc about WHY they changed their views, and those groups will almost certainly contain other No voters from 2014.

      I would also imagine that if they now feel conned in 2014 by BT then their voices would be vocicerous when it comes to discussions with others.

      Within 5 years of a booming indy Scotland, you will struggle to find anyone willing to admit voting No.

    27. Marie Clark says:

      Welcome aboard Jenny. It’s never an easy thing when you realise that you were conned and lied to. It’s a truly horrible feeling, but once your eyes have been opened, you won’t be fooled again.

      Admitting that you were taken in, and being willing to say so publicly, and very articulately, gives a great sense of freedom. I bet some of these No to Yes folks will be the hardest working for Yes in the next indy ref. Well done that young lady.

    28. Craig P says:

      Somebody cheesed off that unionists lied to her. That Scotland has no voice in Westminster. That sticking with the union looks like a worse bet that independence.

      This seems astonishing because nobody who had paid attention at any point in the last forty years of British political history could expect anything different.

      The culprit I believe is the media. Anyone who took a superficial look at the issues got a very strong impression from the media that independence is some mad racist’s fantasy, an impecunious leap into the dark, compared to the stone-eteched certainties of British stability and tolerance.

      At least Brexit is now making some people look a bit deeper. Good on you Jenny for keeping your critical faculties open.

    29. Ken500 says:

      Immigrating is not high. It is mainly 217,000 foreign students (fully funded). They come here to study then go home. The Tories are including these figures. Without these figures included. There are 85,000. (Under 100,000). 15,000 have protected status. (Humanitarian etc) Including 8,000 refugees (including 1000 Libyans). Considering the carnage Westminster created in the Middle East these are low figures. 50,000 of a pop of 62Million is miniscule amount. Considering ebb and flow.

      No doubt they are under-estimating the figures leaving. With the underlining pop falling.

      The figure for Scotland are approx 5,000. A small amount. Scotland needs people. Westminster policies have depopulated Scotland. The populated in Scotland has stagnated since 1900’s It has only increased since Devolution 2000. Since 2000 from 5million to 5.2Million.

    30. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      A warm welcome to Yes young lady I hope you help many more to come across to Scotland’s side.

      In the end it will only be the very old, knuckle draggers and the daft who support the so called union.

      Nice one phantom films.

    31. gordoz says:

      All welcome to the movement of change and political emancipation.
      Great to have you on board !

    32. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Craig P @ 12:30,

      Aye, you are right there. Desperately trying to keep control of the narrative from up on high.

      I think it could possibly be a quite effective antidote to have “neighbourhood meets” where people could be invited for a quiet cuppa and a biscuit and hear a convert speak. Somebody who has gone through the process of waking up and can reach people ready to make the same journey.

      As Luigi @ 11:36 said, nothing quite so committed as a new convert. And with all due respect to the stalwarts, perhaps more able to convince other potential converts.

    33. Socrates MacSporran says:

      OFF TOPIC

      From the Rev’s twitter feed: Pocahantas McGlinchey.

      Surely that’s a name from a Chewin’ the Fat sketch, or part of Billy Connolly’s stand-up routine.

    34. Joe says:

      Child Abuse in the Towers ,,, ( You Know WHO you are ) , regime change ( IF there is enogh profit $$$€£),,, washing the money in London then ” off shore ” etc …
      A change is gonna come ! ?

    35. Republicofscotland says:

      A warm welcome young lady hop aboard.

    36. Hamish100 says:

      A different country. Apparently not in the BBC. “Britain” has a knife epidemic. A national crisis and emergency.

      or maybe they could just tell the truth.

    37. Republicofscotland says:

      O/T apologies.

      BMW, thinking about relocating the production of the Mini car out of Britain.

      http://archive.is/rgTR1

    38. scunner says:

      @bobajock

      Heard Curtice on Radio Shortbread last week suggesting Yes/Leavers now “No” are balanced out by the No/Remainers now “Yes” in the side-switching stakes.

      I don’t believe that. I know a few Yes/Leavers who will 100% back “Yes” for Indy given the chance. Would never pass up the chance for independence – not comparable.

      One regularly spouts “Britain’s full” while 100% “Yes”, others voted Leave to “give Cameron a bloody nose”. Job done, own nose sore, 100% “Yes”

    39. Ken500 says:

      Paediatric ‘shortage’. The report. Emergency admissions have increased from 45 to 57 (a year?). Like the NHS can’t cope with that. (£12Billion+).

      They are estimating there will be 100 more Drs needed in 10 to 15 years time. (Drs retiring). On today’s approximation. They don’t even know the figures in 10 to 15 years time. In the meantime there are 3 trainee applications for every vacancy. So basically they are being trained or in training in Scotland.

      This is a so called ‘crisis’. Invented by the Press. In the meantime the unionists pile in. Do they never get sick of perpetuating this nonsense against the hardworking, great NHS.

      Not a vote winner. The usual utter and complete, absolute nonsense. It is laughable.

    40. galamcennalath says:

      jfngw says:

      interview of Tove McDonald on twitter. She is 87 and has lived in Scotland for 59 years, now has to register or leave.

      Robert J. Sutherland says:

      poll-tax-type civil disobedience campaign arising out of this

      A point has to be reached where decent Scots need to say loudly, “Enough!”

      Indy will solve the problem, but even optimistically that years away.

      The Tories are exercising powers over Scots with non UK passports which goes completely against the wishes of the majority here. Perhaps this is perfect issue for the Scottish Government/Parliament to take a lead. Are we to accept that something being ‘reserved’ to WM completely overrides our sovereignty and our moral stance?

    41. Capella says:

      Bravo Jenny, for putting the case so clearly. Good luck with your journalism career. I’ll be looking out for articles. You certainly have a talent for getting to the heart of the issue and explaining it simply. Something that has eluded most of the other journalists in Scotland and the UK.

    42. Fireproofjim says:

      Knife crime in Scotland has halved since the SNP came to power. The police numbers have increased by 1,000 and a combined social and policing campaign has had great success. Murder is at anew low level.
      You would never know anything about that if you listen to the media.

    43. Ken500 says:

      Millionaire pollsters always gets things ‘wrong’ for money. Fraudulent Pollsters breaking electoral rules. Censored and fined many time. The Polls are illegally manipulated to influence the result . Total illegal corruption. Manipulated by the markets for fraudulent gain. The IndyRef. EU Ref Leave totally manipulated by crooks. Lies and more corruption. Breaking Purdah rules. Stolen data breaking data protection rules being sold illegally. May protects criminal politicians based in Downing Street. Given honours for failure.

    44. Ken500 says:

      They were no young people killed by knife crime (last year?) in Scotland. 35 in England?

    45. Macart says:

      Another exceptional vid from Phantom Power and welcome Jenny.

      There’s a lesson in all of these from no to yes vids for the UK’s political class. Not entirely sure they’re up to understanding that lesson though. It deals with concepts seemingly well beyond their abilities to comprehend.

      A wee clue for them… It’s not and never has been about how you make people do what you want (which is kinda where we’re at today). Folk tend to get grumpy when they feel they’ve been conned, short changed, sold a lemon, and their good faith betrayed.

      Worth a thought. 😎

    46. red sunset says:

      Ref the comments on knife crime and extra police in Scotland.

      A year or two ago I would see police on bicycles patrolling, regularly.

      Now I see police on foot, patrolling the streets in the area. Quite frequently.

      I’m sure this is an example of good policy put into practice.

    47. ronnie anderson says:

      O/T Joanna Cherry accused Chris Greyling & was pulled up by Big John & didn’t retract ( he’s lying comment )

    48. Breeks says:

      I’d be interested to know the extent to which No voters in 2014 were simply voting on automatic pilot, and the reason they’re moving to YES is quite simply they’ve actually started to actively think about things.

      It’s maybe not so much of a conversion as an awakening. People weren’t convinced to vote no in 2014, they simply weren’t persuaded to vote YES… largely I suppose because they didn’t engage properly but remained detached on autopilot.

      It’s less about what people were thinking, and more to do with how they were thinking… or not. (Anybody else smell media conspiracy?)

      I believe YES in 2014 was fundamentally about switching people on, whereas Better Together / BBC BritNatery was essentially about keeping people switched off, disinterested and disengaged.

    49. Robert Peffers says:

      @skydiver says: 5 March, 2019 at 12:06 pm”:

      ” … And when they say “country”, they really mean England”

      Yes skydiver and that little britnat slight of tongue has seen more than one Britnat hecht heid ain stopped in their tracks while on full flow in a speech.

      The wee question, “And which United Kingdom country is it you refer to”, Minister,?, is a real downer for the unionists. They just cannot get out of it no matter what they answer.

      If they say Britain they are doomed for Britain isn’t a country. If they say The United Kingdom they are even more doomed for that describes a two partner kingdom that contains four countries and as they actually meant the United Kingdom they have to explain why they called it a country.

      That simple wee question is actually devastating for unionists. Just try it out sometime – if nothing else it will interrupt the verbal shitstorm and take the wind out of the speakers sails. This has the effect of making them wary of what they say and they lose confidence in themselves.

    50. dakk says:

      Honest and articulate communication there Jenny.

      You are very welcome aboard.

      The UK lies about Scotland being kicked out of the EU are the tip of the iceberg when it comes to perfidious Albion.

      Lying about wmd in Iraq and committing war crimes on brown people,denying Chagos Islanders their human rights,stealing and lying about Scotland’s oil wealth,the list is endless.

      We can be so much better than that in an independent Scotland

    51. Scottish Steve says:

      I am sure there are many people like Jenny who feel their British identity is falling away because of how Scotland is being treated by Westminster. And who can blame them? She is absolutely right when she says it would be better for both countries to be independent neighbours rather than in a union.

      It’s folk like Jenny we need to convince. The Orange headbangers are a lost cause. Victory lies with swaying the soft No voters.

    52. geeo says:

      SNP MP’s having a field day today at WM over Alan Brown’s Emergency debate on No Deal brexit ferry contract scandal.

      Joanna Cherry really getting stuck intae thum big time.

      Want to know what the SNP are doing at WM, tune into the debate, they are eviscerating the tories today.

    53. One_Scot says:

      I just love these films.

    54. Jack Murphy says:

      Here’s the link to this afternoon’s Commons debate.

      Johanna Cherry QC MP, Scottish National Party, at 14:57:45

      Parliament TV:
      https://tinyurl.com/y6k32hbm

    55. ronnie anderson says:

      geeo In common parlance SHOT DOWN IN FLAMES by the SNP MPs

      Hancock / Greyling & the collective Tories in Cabinet LYING BASTARDS.

    56. Petra says:

      Thanks for telling your story Jenny and let’s hope that there’s a lot more like you out there. Best wishes for your future in journalism and don’t forget that in an Independent Scotland we’ll be needing journalists like you …. brave and honest.

      ……………………

      “How to be Scottish: You just turn up. I like that.”

      http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/11/it-s-going-have-be-snp-if-i-m-still-scotland-next-time-there-s-election

    57. Dr Jim says:

      Richard Leonard in the chamber moments ago referring to the circumstances that will affect *Scotland the UK and Wales*

      I’ve starred that comment deliberately to highlight once again that the Unionist opposition in Scotland refer to *England* as the UK but don’t mention the word England

      Scotland and Wales are both mentioned regularly but when referencing England it becomes the UK

      This is deliberate word twisting and each of the opposition parties regularly engage in it in the hope of implanting in voters minds the totally incorrect notion and fiction that England is the UK

      It is not and never has been, Scotland plus England is the UK not one or the other but both

      When Scotland decides to become Independent there is no Union, we don’t leave the Union, that Union ceases to exist, what England decides to call itself after that dissolution is entirely up to them and no doubt they will put their heads together and come up with something even more glorious sounding than before however that decision will have no bearing on Scotland because we will be exactly what we’ve always been…… Scotland!….but better!

    58. Referendum1707 says:

      Galamcenalath 1.32

      “Indy will solve the problem, but even optimistically that years away.”

      Care to explain what exactly you mean by that?

    59. Pogo says:

      Loved this film keep it up Phantom Power.

    60. call me dave says:

      Only a couple of Tory stooges left on the government WM benches as the SNP systematically destroy their credibility.

      A litany of Tory incompetence exposed by the SNP MPs with ‘Cherry’ on the top.

      What an embarrassment and anyone in Scotland watching all of this today or on many other days previously must surely be in no doubt that it is time for Scotland to move on from this pretend union.

    61. Craig P says:

      Breeks says:
      5 March, 2019 at 2:34 pm

      I’d be interested to know the extent to which No voters in 2014 were simply voting on automatic pilot, and the reason they’re moving to YES is quite simply they’ve actually started to actively think about things.

      That’s a good point Breeks… I remember watching Andy Murray being interviewed in a documentary and the interviewer asked his opinion on independence… he said he didn’t have a view yet but would research it carefully and come up with a view based on the evidence.

      At that point I knew he would come out for indy, because James Kelly (Scot Goes Pop) had just reported a poll that showed that people who researched the matter were more likely to be independence supporters. It’s the people who took the media headlines as gospel and gave the matter no further thought that voted for the status quo.

    62. Doug_Bryce says:

      ^ Andy Murray was always YES. Simply had to keep political opinion quiet after toxic UK press never forgave a 17 year old boy for suggesting he wouldn’t be supporting England at World Cup 2006. They hated him for that up until the day he won Wimbledon.

    63. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Referendum1707 @ 16:05,

      gala can of course speak for himself, but I took that comment to mean that even given there was a majority for yes in a proper referendum tomorrow, working out the fine details of a split would take a year or two of negotiations to formalise, and even then discussions about one thing or another would likely be ongoing for some time afterwards.

      However, it’s important to also realise that de facto we’re independent the millisecond a referendum result is declared, and no-one else can speak for us (or our resources) thereafter. We would, for example, be perfectly free to enter parallel negotiations with the EU, and vice-versa. And some of the more contentious aspects of UK legislation, while in principle still on the statute books, would in Scotland become effectively unenforceable.

    64. Ken500 says:

      Andy Murray has fans in UK and worldwide. Just like all the Tennis greats. A massive draw brings in investment to Scotland. Fans all over.

      Arron Banks Brexiteer in the spotlight again. May is protecting his illegal activities. Stop investigations.

    65. Robert Peffers says:

      @One_Scot says: 5 March, 2019 at 3:28 pm:

      ” … I just love these films.”

      You are far from being alone in that love, Scot. New ones are always looked forward to.

    66. twathater says:

      Jenny I echo the welcome sentiments from my fellow posters , it is young people like you , who will through your endeavours , along with ( I hope ) yir elders forge the bright new FUTURE of our unshackled newly self determining beautiful Scotland

      The future can and will be something to look FORWARD too , forget the old ways and the dinosaur politicians MIRED in corruption and SELF interest , YOU young ones and us AULD yins now have the ability to determine the direction of a better , more inclusive , politically and socially aware direction of travel for our country

      YOU young ones are the future for Scotland , you are a journalist get together with your fellow journalists and EXPOSE and destroy the corruption and lies being spouted daily by a coterie of scribblers and media presstitutes to ensure your future and country are hogtied to a fetid , rancid neighbour whose moral compass has disappeared

    67. Muscleguy says:

      Everybody has to be allowed a youthful indiscretion, but her definition of what it is it to Scottish and that a birth certificate doesn’t make her more Scottish was absolutely wonderful. I was born here but you wouldn’t know by talking to me because aged 6 we emigrated to NZ. Coming back I have always been welcome and EVERYONE who has enquired about my background due to my accent has absolutely accepted me as Scottish.

      But we first arrived from NZ into London and the number of English people who denigrated us because we were Kiwis was really quite awful. Just after Jonah Lomu ran over Mike Catt in the opening game of the RWC we wore our All Black jerseys to our usual, regular pub. We went on a Tuesday and were often the only customers but the barman saw our jerseys and threatened to ban us. There were no signs banning football colours etc.

      So we took our custom elsewhere. I’ve never had any grief wearing an AB shirt in Scotland. In small town northern France it got us drinks bought for us and a good natured Franglais discussion about various rugby players. The contrast is rather stark.

      The English to a large degree are not interested in how other places do things, even if they might do them better. There’s form of English exceptionalism and it seems to have grown after the Brexit vote and it is not a good look and they need to be careful not to deter tourists.

      I certainly have no particular desire to go down to England, there are far too many parts of Scotland to see first. I’ve never been to the Northern or Western Isles (bar Skye) and fully intend to rectify that when I get back on my financial feet. The prospect is a spur to me.

    68. Legerwood says:

      Ken 500 @ 1.28pm
      “”Paediatric ‘shortage’. The report. Emergency admissions have increased from 45 to 57 (a year?). Like the NHS can’t cope with that. (£12Billion+).””

      And

      Ken 500 @ 1.43 pm
      “”They were no young people killed by knife crime (last year?) in Scotland. 35 in England?””
      ……….
      The numbers of children attending A&E has risen from 45,400 in 2012/13 to 59,000 in 2017/18. This is around 4917 per month in 2017/18.

      For context there were 135,166 attendances at A&E in Scotland in November 2018 which is round about the usual monthly attendance at A&E.

      The knife crime statistics that you quote are for 2017. There were 35 young people killed in England and Wales in 2017 but none in Scotland during that period.

    69. Tinto Chiel says:

      “I believe YES in 2014 was fundamentally about switching people on, whereas Better Together / BBC BritNatery was essentially about keeping people switched off, disinterested and disengaged.”

      Indeed, Breeks.

      Remember Dr. John Reid’s immortally crass, “If you don’t know, vote No”?

      And to answer Mad Magrit Curran’s “Voting Yes will make my English relatives foreign” tosh, I find I strangely still love my French relatives a lot, despite them living in a foreign country.

      What’s wrong with foreign, anyhow? Foreign’s different and interesting in my book.

      Mags is, by contrast, same old same, old and deeply boring.

    70. AndyMcKangry says:

      Welcome to the light Jenny.
      We are all on the same journey it’s just that some of us are on different roads.
      As long as we all get to the same destination!!
      Make sure you bring your pals.
      Jump in the water’s lovely!!!

    71. Breeks says:


      Muscleguy says:
      5 March, 2019 at 5:38 pm
      Everybody has to be allowed a youthful indiscretion, but her definition of what it is it to Scottish and that a birth certificate doesn’t make her more Scottish was absolutely wonderful. I was born here but you wouldn’t know by talking to me because aged 6 we emigrated to NZ. Coming back I have always been welcome….

      There was a great wee video roundabout 2014 if I remember correctly, about an immigrant saying how he’d been welcomed into a community, never experienced resentment or hostility, and quickly settled in to make the place home, The twist was they weren’t his own words, but the words of a Scottish immigrant being welcomed into Canadian community in the 19th Century. I thought is was absolutely brilliant.

    72. sandy says:

      Wullie @ 12.17 pm.

      Come ashore, man, come ashore.
      You’d be amazed at the number of people migrating north, mainly Scots but many others, seeking a better way of life. The further north you get, the further away you get from the ignorant fascists south of the border.
      I hasten to add, not all are fascists but they are bound one way or the other by most of their political representatives, persons they vote for or are conned by. Let’s face it, they have only two parties to vote for. Discount the Libdems, they are like prostitutes, jump into bed with anyone for their own selfish gain.

    73. Lanarkist says:

      Nicola Sturgeon’ s motion passed 89 yes, 29 No, (?)

      Jackson Carlaw’s motion fails 29yes 89no!

    74. Lanarkist says:

      Sorry correction, Motion passed 87 to 29 to reject TMay’s EU deal and demand extension to Art50.

    75. jfngw says:

      @Sandy

      I like that, LibDem’s: political prostitutes across the UK.

    76. galamcennalath says:

      Referendum1707 says:

      Galamcenalath 1.32

      “Indy will solve the problem, but even optimistically that years away.”

      Care to explain what exactly you mean by that?

      Firstly independence means we can redefine who can and can’t stay here, and who is entitled to be Scottish. People who have lived here for decades should be allowed to stay, I would hope.

      Secondly, timescale for Indy? In 2014 the planned time from announcement of the referendum to indyday was something like 3-4 years. The time from announcement to IndyRef2 will no doubt be shorter. I can’t see one before September. If (when) YES win how long till Indyday? Personally I would say ASAP, but I’m sure it will be a couple of years.

      So, anyone faced with deportation SHORTLY, independence is an irrelevance.

    77. jfngw says:

      I see James Kelly is still tweeting about car parking. This is a man only in Holyrood because of party patronage, he was thrown out of his constituency seat by the electorate. He is now the BritNat Labour Finance Dunderheid in Scotland (a man that doesn’t even understand how the tax banding works).

    78. Ken500 says:

      The number being quote in the Report for emergency admission, not routine admission, increased from 45K to 57K. a year over five years. 2K+ a year. The report – on the report did quote 45 to 57 emergency admissions (false journalism) There is not a need, at present, for an increase of a 100 Drs to deal with 2,000 patents a month. (ie 20+ patients a month?) One a day? Which was what was being implied.

      The increase number of Drs, being approximated, at 100 increase is for 10 to 15 years time. (Because of approx future retirement). According to the report of the report. With every trainee vacancy attracting 3 applicants. So not a crisis situation but one being dealt with Drs in training, One reason quoted was more doctors are working P/T. If ten qualified Drs are trained a year. It would meet the target number.

      The population could fall. The way Brexit is going. They could be hardly anyone left.

    79. Ken500 says:

      Car parking charges another green diversion giving the unionists ammunition. Some people never learn. Misinformation.

    80. Moonlight says:

      Question. O/T a bit.
      Who do Police Scotland owe their loyalty to? In the final analysis who directs them?
      In the event that the Home Office sends a pack of it’s goons to Scotland, to deport an EU citizen, clearly against the stated policy of the Scottish Government are the Scottish Police required to assist them. Or, are the Scottish Police, by direction of the SG to stand back and only step in to prevent a breach of the peace, assault or other disorder.
      I’m sure someone here will have the answer to this.

    81. Robert Peffers says:

      @Lanarkist says: 5 March, 2019 at 6:17 pm:
      ! … Sorry correction, Motion passed 87 to 29 to reject TMay’s EU deal and demand extension to Art50.”

      Aye! Lanarkist, that was quite a significant debate in Holyrood today. I missed it due to medical appointments but have just finished reading it.

      The usual suspects saying the usual things and getting the usual weel skelpit erse frae Nicola.

      I also caught up on the sectarianism at football debate and that, probable deliberate, slip of the tongue about James Kelly was hilarious. All in all a most interesting day in parliament.

      On a more serious note the debate in the chamber about mesh implants was a bit more serious and had implications of possible attempts to put political advantage and SNP BAAAD! before the plight of the poor victims.

    82. Dr Jim says:

      In a measured reply to the vote taken by the Scottish and Welsh governments Theresa May said *Blah Blah Blah we don’t care England rules now shut up plebs*

      Well it was something like that

    83. Ken500 says:

      At present they can’t deport EU citizens because of freedom of movement. The people they are trying to deport are people from other parts. Many of whom have lived in the UK for years since they were young. Or changing the goal posts on visa procedure or changing qualification. Then trying to deport people. People having to spend £thousand going through court actions to appeal. Often because of Home Office intransigence and not listening to reason or common decency. What a way to treat people. Just appalling. Windrush people. It is even more terrible because many are elderly and need some support from their families etc. The Tories are even charging children born in Britain £1000 for the right to stay, There families are having to pay vast sums of money they cannot afford. Going through massive anxiety, worry and insecurity.

      The point is how EU citizens rights will be continued to be supported if there is Brexit. Especially in light of what is happening already. Not giving guarantees or respecting their rights. Millions of people. Trying to make them 2nd class citizens or giving them different status. Many have lived in the Britain for years. Pay their taxes and all their dues. They have children and family here. Especially in Scotland where people are needed to keep the economy functioning. There are reports that the Iran grandparents had to pay £20,000 in costs. Their grandson pays rugby for Scotland. It is just outrageous. What the Tory/unionists have done. Supported by Labour etc. What a way to treat people. Beyond comprehension.

    84. Legerwood says:

      Ken 500 @ 7.09 PM

      I do not know which report you are referring to when you talk about Emergency admissions. Or where you got the ‘3 applicants for every post’.

      The Royal College of Pediatrics and Child Health (RCPCH) produced a Workforce report this year and that seems to have been the basis for the reports in the media today. The RCPH produces a Workforce report every 2 years.

      You can read an overview of the report here and link to the full report from within this link.

      https://www.rcpch.ac.uk/resources/workforce-census-2017-overview-report

    85. Macart says:

      Oh this’ll leave a mark.

      https://archive.fo/p7z0r

      There really isn’t much doubt that Brexit will cause untold economic and societal harm to the populations on these islands. As for UK gov’s response to the Holyrood and the Welsh Assembly debates?

      https://archive.fo/AfOAS

      Tusk was right. There really should be a special place reserved for the architects of this idiocy.

    86. cynicalHighlander says:

      Moonlight

      Do they not take an oath to the Monarch?

    87. jfngw says:

      John Nicholson has castigated someone for referring to Ricahard Leonard as English, that’s fair enough if Mr Leonard sees himself as Scottish then who am I to argue as my ancestry is not Scottish.

      But the proof of the pudding is in the eating, does he respect the choice of the Scottish people to remain in the EU or does he support the decision of England to overrule Scotland’s choice.

      This is true for all the BritNat parties representatives in Scotland, do they side with Scotland’s voters or England’s voters. There is no middle ground on this, it is either respecting Scotland’s choice or England’s.

    88. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Macart @ 20:53,

      Unfortunately, the most likely effect of this mounting anti-“no-deal” pressure is merely to enhance parliamentary support for May’s “deal”. Which itself is by no stretch of the imagination “soft” in its consequences (intended and unintended).

      And I still fear that all the panic plus all the shameless bungs might just be enough to get Dis-May what she so desperately craves.

    89. Moonlight says:

      Cynical Highlander @ 9.14
      Which Monarch.
      Elizabeth the second, Queen of England or Elizabeth, Queen of Scots?

      Immigration is a retained power, policing is devolved.

      Future options of the people of Scotland in the event of a harsh reaction from Westminster may well be qualified by the answer to this question. Clearly the people would want to act lawfully, but who’s law, enforced by whom.

      As a for instance, in the event that there is an attempt to deport an Eu citizen, resident in Scotland, who’s friends and neighbours might wish to form a protective ring around that Eu citizen, what would the actions of Police Scotland be. Nobody would want to do anything unlawful, that’s not our way. But I would ask if a Home office goon has any authority in Scotland without the assistance of the Scottish Police.

    90. ronnie anderson says:

      Moonlight Sadly immigration isn’t devolved to the S Gov & there is Police cooperation UK & EU wide .

    91. Famous15 says:

      The oath of Scottish Police is not to the Monarch. It is as follows.

      “I, do solemnly, sincerely and truly declare and affirm that I will faithfully discharge the duties of the office of constable with fairness, integrity, diligence and impartiality,and that I will uphold fundamental human rights and accord equal respect to all people, according to law.”

    92. Macart says:

      @Robert J Sutherland

      Not entirely sure what’s more insulting by this point Robert. The false choices, the politicking, or the moronic scapegoating they employ?

    93. ronnie anderson says:

      Yes/No inside the Indy ref starting on Bbc new channel

    94. Famous15 says:

      To avoid confusion note all ranks up to and including Chief Constable hold the office of constable.

    95. Robert Peffers says:

      @ronnie anderson says: 5 March, 2019 at 9:49 pm:

      ” … Moonlight Sadly immigration isn’t devolved to the S Gov & there is Police cooperation UK & EU wide.

      In the end, Ronnie, it doesn’t matter for the ultimate question comes back to that same old question. Who is legally sovereign in Scotland and the answer is, The People of Scotland are sovereign under Scottish law and Scottish law is independent.

      Don’t even bother to bring up the hoary old chestnut that the people of Scotland claim is just, “Popular”, sovereignty. It isn’t – that is Westminster lies. There is absolutely no doubt that the people of Scotland are legally sovereign and that is reflected in many of Scotland’s laws. Including the fact that Scots have legal right to roam and that there is no English style law of trespass under Scots law. Furthermore international law recognises Scottish Law as independent.

      The International Law of the Seas recognises Scottish Jurisdiction as did international law recognise Scottish Jurisdiction over Lockerbie when both the USA and UK attempted to claim jurisdiction to try the accused Lockerbie Bomber – and both failed.

      So there you go the people of Scotland are legally sovereign and a sovereign’s word is law. We just need to get a majority of the legally sovereign people to finally put their foot down and claim their sovereignty as their legal right.

      International law has no option than to uphold our sovereign right. Even if they do not they have to uphold their own sovereign rights for the United Nations, The USA, The UK, the EU and Uncle Tom Cobleigh an’ all an’ all have all signed up to the Civil Rights Laws and high on that list is the right of any identifiable group of people to self determination.

      Scotland was an identifiable kingdom/country long before there was even an England, UK, USA or EU.

    96. Ken500 says:

      The press report was implying there are 100 paediatricians Drs short in Scotland for emergency admissions. With the unionists piling in. It was for 10 to 15 years in the future because of estimates of number of retiring Drs. The ‘3 applicants for each training place in Scotland’ was in the Press report. That could be wrong too?

      The Report : –

      ‘Recruit and train more paediatricians’

      2a ‘The UK Gov and the Govs in NI, Scotland and Wales to increase the number of paediatric training place in the UK to 600 in each training years for the next five years’

      That equates, on average, to approx 50 a year in Scotland for the next five years. (600 divide by 12 – Scotland 1/12 of the UK population). Ie 300 in total over the next five years. When there are already Drs in training.

      Nothing like 100 emergency admission paediatric Drs short in Scotland, at present.

    97. Ken500 says:

      @ ie 250 in total over the next five years.

    98. Robert Peffers says:

      @Famous15 says: 5 March, 2019 at 9:58 pm:

      ” … The oath of Scottish Police is not to the Monarch. It is as follows.
      “I, do solemnly, sincerely and truly declare and affirm that I will faithfully discharge the duties of the office of constable with fairness, integrity, diligence and impartiality,and that I will uphold fundamental human rights and accord equal respect to all people, according to law.””,

      Smack on the button there, Famous15.

      Note that they, just like MPs, are not required to swear an oath of loyalty to the monarch but they, “affirm”, their loyalty – to the law – and that law is the independent law of Scotland and legal jurisdiction in Scotland – over both land, sea and airspace is Scottish independent law.

    99. Cubby says:

      Does England own Scotland?

      Is Scotland inferior to England?

      Are Scots inferior to English?

      Get the cringe right out of Scotland for all time. Stop asking Westminster for permission.

    100. ronnie anderson says:

      Robert Peffers Like yourself im well aware of the Sovereignty of Scots & thats a issue that the Home Office ignores when making these removal orders on people living in Scotland . I would like to see a challenge in the Court of Sessions on these removal orders of people who have settled in Scotland

    101. sandy says:

      OT.

      This anti-semitism row. I am somewhat confused. However, I do have some views on this. Bear with me.

      I have little time for both the (predominantly English) parliament & the Israeli parliament. They both verge on fascist dictatorial principals.

      On saying that, I have no reason to generally dislike English or Jewish individuals. Who am I to judge persons I don’t know? However, those who choose to be in the limelight & utter dogmatic statements deserve all the negative criticism thrown at them.

      In hindsight, perhaps this is intended to divert problems that the English (Br- Enxit) WM & Israeli (land theft) are currently undergoing.

    102. Robert Peffers says:

      @ronnie anderson says: 5 March, 2019 at 11:18 pm:

      ” … Robert Peffers Like yourself im well aware of the Sovereignty of Scots & thats a issue that the Home Office ignores when making these removal orders on people living in Scotland . I would like to see a challenge in the Court of Sessions on these removal orders of people who have settled in Scotland.”

      Wouldn’t we all, Ronnie, but if you have been paying attention to the Westminster debating chamber and also the Holyrood chamber happenings you might have noticed the SNP have slowly been ramping up the way they are dealing and responding to the Britnats.

      I’m not party to what’s going on but I get the distinct impression they are up to something but they want the unionists to react to their more cheeky actions.

      The SNP is definitely trying to goad them into something. It just might be to act unlawfully and then hit them with court action. Anyway whatever is in the wind the SNP are getting more and more cheeky and treating the unionists with more and more disrespect. Sooner or later someone, maybe Bercow, is going to react.

    103. Petra says:

      @ Jack Murphy says at 3:33 pm…. ”Here’s the link to this afternoon’s Commons debate. Johanna Cherry QC MP, Scottish National Party, at 14:57:45.”

      Parliament TV:

      https://tinyurl.com/y6k32hbm

      ……………………….

      Thanks for the link Jack. You can see why the Tories absolutely detest, and are feart of imo, the SNP MP’s. Over and above coming across as being extremely intelligent, totally competent, industrious and honest, the antithesis of the Westminster cabal, they’re actually the only politicians at Westminster that are holding that bunch of corrupt chancers to account.

      Alan Brown SNP kicks the whole thing off (12:48pm) by asking Bercow if they can hold an emergency debate on the Eurotunnel fiasco. From then on until 15:45pm the Tories are hounded by the SNP MP’s in particular by Joanna Cherry, as Jack points out, at 14:57 pm. She’s like a dog with a bone and isn’t going to give up on this much to the chagrin of the Tories in general and Grayling in particular.

      Well worth a watch.

    104. jfngw says:

      BBC Doc on Indy Ref. Nothing really revealed that I’ve not heard before.

      Good to see Gordon Brown say that Labour leading Better Together were just a front for the Conservatives and were funded by them. It was really Westminster versus Scotland with the Labour Party providing a Scottish front.

      Darling showing his lack of self awareness always referring to SNP as Nationalists but totally missing he is a British Nationalist.

    105. Petra says:

      ‘READ: Nicola Sturgeon’s full speech on May’s ‘consistent contempt for Scotland.’

      The First Minister has hit out at the Prime Minister’s leadership on Brexit.

      Nicola Sturgeon said that Theresa May’s “one note of consistency in all of this has been contempt for Scotland”.

      She launched the scathing attack on Theresa May’s stewardship over Brexit while kicking off a debate at Holyrood.

      Later today, in a first since devolution 20 years ago, the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly will vote simultaneously on a motion declaring opposition to the EU divorce deal agreed by the UK Government.

      ……………………

      Read the First Minister’s speech in full below:

      “Presiding officer, in Cardiff this afternoon, Jeremy Miles, the Welsh Brexit Minister, will open a debate on almost exactly the same motion as the one we are debating here today. The Welsh First Minister will close the debate.

      It is worth emphasising that this is the first occasion in 20 years of devolution that the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly have acted in unison in this way.

      We have been brought together by our dismay – bordering now on despair – at the UK Government’s approach to Brexit. That despair is echoed across our countries.

      As recently as last summer, the Prime Minister confidently told me that by the autumn of last year, not only would we know the terms of exit, we would also know significant detail about the UK’s future relationship with the EU.

      And yet here we are, just 24 days until the UK is due to leave the EU. And still we don’t know if there will be any agreed terms of exit. We don’t know if there will be a transition phase.

      And the terms of the future relationship are not much more than a blank sheet of paper. The potential consequences for businesses, communities, individuals and public services grow more stark by the day.

      And in the face of all this chaos, the Prime Minister is showing no decisive leadership. Instead of doing the right thing and ruling out a no-deal exit at any stage, she insists on freewheeling the car ever closer to the cliff edge.

      She is trying to run down the clock, making undeliverable promises to hardline Brexiteers and offering tawdry, half-baked bribes to Labour MPs.

      Her one note of consistency in all of this has been contempt for Scotland. Seemingly, we aren’t even worthy of her bribes – though I think we should take that as a compliment.

      The domestic and international standing of the Westminster system of government has surely never been lower in any of our lifetimes. This fiasco should not be allowed to continue for even one day more. The Scottish and Welsh Parliaments are today making three demands.

      The first is that the prospect of leaving the EU with no deal is ruled out – not just at the end of March, but at any time.

      The second is that MPs must not allow themselves to be bullied into choosing between the catastrophe of no deal and the disaster of the government’s deal.

      And the third is that an extension of Article 50 is essential and urgent, and must be requested now. The demand to rule out a “no-deal” scenario is, I hope, supported across this chamber.

      The Scottish Government is doing everything we can to plan for and mitigate the impact of a no-deal Brexit.

      I am personally chairing our weekly Resilience meetings, looking at medicine and food supplies, economic and community impacts and transport links.

      But every aspect of that planning reinforces this overwhelming reality – no rational government acting in the interests of those it serves would countenance leaving the EU without a deal.

      The UK Government’s own forecasts predict that a no-deal scenario could reduce GDP by 9% over a 15 year period. But you just need to look at the nature of the preparations to know that the impact would be much more immediate.

      The UK government has been buying fridges to stockpile medicine. It has been testing motorways and airfields in Kent for use as lorry parks. It has been awarding and then cancelling ferry contracts to businesses which don’t even have ships.

      It has been taking steps which should be inconceivable in a developed economy in peacetime. And all of it to plan for an avoidable outcome which, if it happens, will be by choice.

      The approach of the UK Government is unforgivably reckless. ‘No deal’ should be definitively ruled out – and today, from Edinburgh and Cardiff, we demand that it is.

      However – and this brings me to the second purpose of today’s motion – the UK Government must not use the threat of no deal to blackmail the UK Parliament into voting for its current deal.

      The response to the rejection of Theresa May’s deal has so far been characterised by delays, denials, dishonesty and most recently desperate attempts at bribery.

      Ministers have wasted months pretending that significant changes to the Northern Ireland backstop are possible – despite all evidence to the contrary.

      Much better, surely, to face up to the fact that the deal is unpopular because it is a bad deal – for the UK, and certainly for Scotland. It would take us out of the EU, out of the single market and out of the custom union.

      But it provides no clarity whatsoever on what our long-term future relationship with the EU looks like. The UK Parliament is effectively being asked to approve a ‘blindfold Brexit’.

      To the extent that any direction of travel can be discerned, it points to a long-term social and economic disaster for Scotland. The red lines mean that we are heading towards a Canada style deal at best.

      And let’s focus on what that means – the Scottish Government estimates this could lead to a fall in national income of £1600 per person by 2030 compared with EU membership. Our services sector, three-quarters of our economy, will be particularly badly hit.”

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/17477833.read-nicola-sturgeons-full-speech-on-mays-consistent-contempt-for-scotland/

    106. jfngw says:

      MP’s can chose one of the three oaths below (I think Scottish ones only have the option of the first one). They all look like you swear allegiance to the monarch, hence why Sinn Fein will never take it.

      I (name of Member) do swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, her heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God.

      I (name of Member) swear by Almighty God that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, her heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God.

      I (name of Member) do solemnly, sincerely, and truly declare and affirm, that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, her heirs and successors, according to law

    107. chicmac says:

      Commendable bravery and a remarkably quick insight to the reality of Bringlish Nationalism for someone who has so recently undergone journalist ‘training’ in the UK.

    108. ronnie anderson says:

      Robert Peffers I do watch Westminster SNP debate today & later caught up with Holyrood I like yourself can only envisage what the Snp MPs are up to embarrassing westminster & demonstrating as to who the opposition is .

      Same applies to the unionist parties in Holyrood making them look stupid .

    109. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      ronnie anderson @ 00:38,

      Westminster is currently a genuine shameful unintentional circus of clowns, but I can’t decide whether the BritNats in Holyrood are deliberately acting as idiots in order to bring the institution into disrepute – and thus undermine it – or whether they are political barrel-scrapings without a damn clue.

      What a choice…(!)

    110. Still Positive says:

      Petra @ 11.47
      Joanna Cherry is an asset to our cause.

      I spoke to her, on her birthday, outside the SNP Conference in Aberdeen nearly 3 years ago.

      I congratulated her on her appearance on QT the previous Thursday when she told me that England was more or less imploding.

      She hasn’t got it wrong.

    111. mr thms says:

      #Petra 12:03 am

      Thanks for posting the FM’s speech

      With regard to this bit

      “Much better, surely, to face up to the fact that the deal is unpopular because it is a bad deal – for the UK, and certainly for Scotland. It would take us out of the EU, out of the single market and out of the custom union.”

      The PM’s deal is for a ‘blind’ Brexit on the 29th March with the UK still in the EU under ‘transitional arrangements’.

      I read somewhere that this scenario would make it possible for the UK to negotiate ‘special arrangements’ for Scotland, Northern Ireland and London.

      Something that cannot be done presently, because it is not allowed under the Treaty of Lisbon.

    112. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      mr thms @ 01:24:

      I read somewhere that this scenario would make it possible for the UK to negotiate ‘special arrangements’ for Scotland, Northern Ireland and London.

      And if you believe that’s going to happen, I have this old scrap metal tower in Paris to offer you at a very special price…

    113. Breeks says:


      Robert Peffers says:
      5 March, 2019 at 11:34 pm

      ….Wouldn’t we all, Ronnie, but if you have been paying attention to the Westminster debating chamber and also the Holyrood chamber happenings you might have noticed the SNP have slowly been ramping up the way they are dealing and responding to the Britnats.

      Here’s somebody else’s reaction to the SNP “slowly” ramping up the way they deal with the BritNats.

      https://www.arcofprosperity.org/launching-my-own-lifeboat-scotland-wont-escape-soon-enough/

      Incidentally, I hope somebody is keeping tabs on the number of pro Independence voices recently falling silent… I believe it’s being caused by political malnutrition.

    114. sassenach says:

      I’m also, like Robert P postulates, trying to read the signs that the SNP do have a plan for an imminent indyref ( or other process to dissolve the union!), but like others find it hard sometimes to keep up the enthusiasm in this period where it feels like we are “becalmed”.

      Joanne Cherry is a fantastic MP, and tenacious (a future SNP Leader?).

    115. Ken500 says:

      Just what the Independence Movement doesn’t need an ant- SNP blogger. Instead of attacking Westminster and the unionist Parties causing the mess and utter shambles. They attack the SNP/Gov trying to stand up for Scotland.

      The best time to have an Indy/Ref is when it can be won. Not is the Middle of this mess and shambles and lose it. It is better to be cautious. Have an Indyref when it can be won. In the meantime stand up for Scotland, which the SNP is doing quite successful. Support the SNP/Scottish Gov. The unionists are destroying their own Parties, A complete and utter shambles. The SNP will know when it is time. When it can be won. In the meantime hold the line for the sake of the economy,

      The Greens will muck up Independence. Constantky giving the unionists ammunition they can use to attack the SNP. Often over trivialities, that have little consequence in the grand scheme of things. How can they be so stupid. The most unpopular Party with the most unpopular policies. No wonder people will not vote for them. Helping May tell complete lies in the Commons about the Scottish economy. Getting second votes from SNP/Independence supporters to do it. Just plain ignorance and arrogance and stupid.

      There are enough forces lined up against the SNP/Independence as it is without helping them. An own goal. They should be attacking the Unionists Parties and Westminster. Who are causing the complete mess and utter shambles. An appalling situation causing people, senseless anxiety and worry. The SNP will know when to call it. When it can be won.

    116. Robert Louis says:

      LOOK AT THIS. Good people devoted to Scotland now leaving because they simply cannot hang on any longer wasiting interminably for the SNP to freaking well do something.

      https://www.arcofprosperity.org/launching-my-own-lifeboat-scotland-wont-escape-soon-enough/

      I totally, totally, agree with every part of the analysis by this guy.

      It is not the tories or labour who will be blamed for brexit damage in Scotland, it will be the SNP. You can argue all day about the technicalities and rationale of it all, but to the average joe, they will simply ask, ‘WHY for heavens sake did the SNP not even try to do something, like hold a referendum’.

      Too busy playing by rules which Westminster no longer recognises.

      Call the freaking referendum, instead of talking about it forever and a day.

      Good people are leaving Scotland, and many more, including talented Scots, will do so once brexit starts.

      NS needs to get on with it.

    117. Ken500 says:

      The Westminster Gov are going to collapse shortly. They can’t go on like this for much longer. Upsetting so many people.

    118. Ghillie says:

      Robert Louis, get a grip.

      And I certainly do not agree with ‘arcofprosperity’.

    119. Undeadshuan says:

      Until we know what form brexit takes we cannot hold a new referendum.

      May could though unlikely cancel article 50
      Agree to a second vote with remain in eu as 1 option and her deal as other.
      Parliamemt could force remain in single market and customs union.

      No one really knows where it will endup soon we will as may has run out of time to kick the can down the road.

      Once we reach brexits final destination, then is the time to annouce independence referendum.

    120. Maria F says:

      mr thms says:
      6 March, 2019 at 1:24 am

      “I read somewhere that this scenario would make it possible for the UK to negotiate ‘special arrangements’ for Scotland, Northern Ireland and London”

      That is very surprising.

      “Something that cannot be done presently, because it is not allowed under the Treaty of Lisbon”

      The Treaty of Lisbon? I think you find that alternative trade arrangements for any part of the UK goes in direct contravention of the articles of the Treaty of Union 1707, which for the case of the UK supersedes the treaty of Lisbon and does not stop applying after the UK leaves the EU.

    121. Breeks says:


      Undeadshuan says:
      6 March, 2019 at 7:44 am

      Once we reach brexits final destination, then is the time to annouce independence referendum.

      No. “Then” is too late. It’s too late to decide against pulling the trigger when you’ve already blown your brains out.

    122. Robert Louis says:

      Ghillie at 0738 am,

      …you talk of getting a grip, do remind me how many days it is until brexit – a brexit that Scotland did not vote for and does not want.

      Or should we just carry on ‘waiting to see..’, for another two years.

    123. Ken500 says:

      It is never too late. Pulling the trigger prematurely, and losing, it blows your brains out, They is still much to campaign for and win it. Holding the line against the abuses. A few months here or there could/should swing it.

    124. Undeadshuan says:

      No i disagree its not too late, the eu cant officially back scotland whilst uk is a member state.

      Brexit uk is on a hiding to nothing if it wants trade deals, canada already said irish border = no trade deal.

      Scotland can always disolve treaty of union as England has broken its terms by not adhering to soverign people of scotlands wishes.

      If scotland declares treaty null and void post brexit, more likely that uk will be in too much post brexit turmoil to do much about it.
      Think of collapse of ussr and what heppened there.

    125. Ken500 says:

      How many days to Brexit it could be years. The Westminster Gov will collapse before that. In a state of collapse now. The unionist Parties are destroying themselves.

    126. sassenach says:

      It is frustrating, the waiting, but the SNP are the only real vehicle to get us independent, and so, frustrating though it is – I STILL TRUST THEM.

      If I’m wrong we’ll soon know, when Brexit actually happens (or not!!). Hold, hold.

    127. Nana says:

      http://www.barrheadboy.com/the-abusive-relationship/

      https://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2019/03/abandoning-snp-for-new-pro-indy-party.html

      Martin Docherty-Hughes MP (West Dunbartonshire), says “there is no equality when you embed privilege”, underlining the SNP’s opposition to the inequality and privilege of hereditary peerages.
      https://twitter.com/MartinJDocherty/status/1102952882003943424

      Highlands and islands begin to feel the exodus of Europeans. Vital health service, teaching and public sector staff abandon the UK, in fear for their settled status.
      https://www.facebook.com/indycargordonross/videos/299971640692308/

    128. Nana says:

      https://www.centreonconstitutionalchange.ac.uk/blog/gm-foods-us-uk-trade-negotiations-and-scottish-food-production-heady-mix

      Brexit ‘likely to cause cancer test delays’
      http://archive.is/kROoa

      The new post-Brexit tariffs the Government is refusing to publish until after next week’s vote will devastate UK manufacturing and farming. No wonder they’d been trying to keep them under wraps! (As for future trade deals, we’ll have nothing to offer.)
      https://twitter.com/uk_domain_names/status/1103039727861682177

      The endless Brexit lies have left us in an Orwellian nightmare http://archive.is/o9P7m

    129. Nana says:

      Donald Tusk claims anti-European forces meddled in Brexit vote
      http://archive.is/qJlXb

      https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2019/03/04/its-time-that-the-uks-left-wing-economists-realised-that-this-is-the-time-for-risk-taking/

      The Head of the NI Civil Service has sent an updated no-deal Brexit letter to the local parties warning of “grave” consequences which could have a “profound & long lasting impact on society.”
      https://twitter.com/JP_Biz/status/1102959415269998593

      https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/bombs-sent-to-london-airports-and-waterloo-came-from-ireland-1.3815339

    130. skydiver says:

      Interesting debate now from yesterday on the BBC Parliament channel called,,,UK and Scottish government relationship.

    131. Nana says:

      https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2019/03/05/a-new-great-game-unfolding-priorities-for-a-new-eu-strategy-on-central-asia/

      Japan’s ambassador warns more firms could leave UK over Brexit
      http://archive.is/J02Bp

      Brexit discussions have focused 90% of the energy of politicians, negotiators, and the public on 20% of GDP: goods. What about services, which account for around 80% of all economic activity in the UK? My team and I have some fact-based analysis:
      https://twitter.com/BenShepherdEcon/status/1102852462602522624

      US warmongering
      http://archive.is/ihKyB

    132. mountain shadow says:

      I enjoyed the 1st episode of the Indyref documentary last night. The two things that stuck out for me were:

      1. The fact that Nicola is a pessimist. This explains why Indyref2 has not been asked for and that subsequently Scotland will likely leave the EU in three weeks time.

      2. “It’s the economy stupid” The chart which should that there is an extra 30 odd percent of Scots willing to switch to independence if the economic benefits can be proven.

      This is where we need to be working on. The Scot Gov should immediately ditch GERS and produce their own figures showing vast surpluses to counter the Treasury’s figures.

    133. mike cassidy says:

      Nana

      I’m too old to go back to using the Daily Record.

      And in the case of the United Kingdom, where the average resident uses an unrivaled 110 rolls of toilet paper per year, the highest figure in Europe, any meaningful measure of forward planning would require more real estate than is currently available.

      http://archive.is/GCeFb#selection-925.432-931.160

    134. Nana says:

      Morning Mike, thanks for the chuckle. I’m struggling to find reasons to be cheerful right now.

      I’ve linked to the arc of prosperity blog for quite a few years now and to see him and his family moving on as so many of EU nationals in my own area are also doing makes me very sad indeed.

      I fully understand why the are leaving, getting out of Dodge is imperative for us all.

    135. ronnie anderson says:

      Nana I had to laugh about your link on Hard times on the toilet , Its aw Bdtt fawt he;s been hoarding Toilet Paper for over a month I laughed when he told me that . Btw he’s got me at it i’ve got 3 big packs lol.

    136. auld highlander says:

      RP @11.34

      “but if you have been paying attention to the Westminster debating chamber and also the Holyrood chamber happenings you might have noticed the SNP have slowly been ramping up the way they are dealing and responding to the Britnats.

      I’m not party to what’s going on but I get the distinct impression they are up to something but they want the unionists to react to their more cheeky actions.”

      Yes indeed, almost like a sniper, slowly and steadily taking aim getting ready for the head shot.

    137. Nana says:

      Morning Ronnie.
      I’m all for a bit of forward planning Ronnie, life is hard enough already without having to resort to dock leaves 🙁

    138. ronnie anderson says:

      mike cassidy is the Sun still 10p lol.

    139. ronnie anderson says:

      Nana Shoosht thats the wipe of last resort an its only us aulder wans that know that , we dont want ah rush on raiding the patches of wild Dock leaves , they cultivated dock leaves hivnae ah patch oan the wild wans nae fibre lol.

    140. galamcennalath says:

      Nana says

      https://target59.wordpress.com/2019/03/04/lesley-riddoch-things-are-hotting-up-on-indy-front/

      A thoughtful offering from Lesley, as always.

      I think she’s right and things are hotting up. The Tories are shitting themselves and I do wonder if there is intentional misinformation being leaked by the SNP.

      This especially caught my attention …

      ” Once Britain has actually withdrawn from the EU, it’s likely that the EU and the smaller trade body EFTA will approach Scotland offering rival membership deals in the event of a vote for independence “

      … that would be a dream ticket during the IndyRef2 campaign itself. Scotland is the ‘jewel in crown’ of the UK (regardless of what English nationalists believe) and the EU and EFTA would desparently want Scotland’s membership. If they made that clear during the campaign by getting early offers on the table, it would help our cause enormously.

    141. Nana says:

      Ach Ronnie, having met me you know I’m just a young thing and couldn’t possibly have known about using dock leaves unless some old fella of my acquaintance had passed on this piece of useful information.

      What with conservation being an issue and paper may be hard to find after Brexit, it might be useful to brush up old country ways.

      https://www.plant-lore.com/news/query-dock-leaves-in-an-emergency/

      🙂

    142. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      auld highlander at 9.20

      Exactly. Loads of of pish on here this morning. The SNP should be doing something. Or it should be doing something. Or even it should be doing something or ah’m away in the huff.

      Actually it has done a very wise thing. It has shown generous concern for all the peoples of these islands and made it almost impossible for the forces ranged against us to have any opportunity to mount coherent attack on us.

      Meanwhile our branches are being given firm instruction to get themselves ready, to increase their visibilty,to prepare themselves for the distribution of new material while huge effort has been made behind the scenes to line up public figures and to go around the world seeking friends.

      As our opposition tears itself to bits and the Labour Party in Scotland commits a slow suicide.
      So happy to welcome more new members to our branch last night.

    143. mr thms says:

      I don’t pay much attention to news reports on the warring factions.

      I prefer to focus on timelines.

      The Treaty of Lisbon amends two treaties.
      and also renamed them.

      One of the renamed treaties was the Treaty of Rome.

      This report from 2010, is on the ‘internal enlargement of the European Union’

      https://ideasforeurope.eu/activity/publication/the-internal-enlargement-of-the-european-union/

      It says a simple amendement to the Treaty of Rome makes it possible.

      I believe this is what Brexit is all about.

      As a result of the Scotland referendum more powers were devolved to Holyrood under the Scotland Act 2016, the Act also put the Sewell Motion into statute. A simple procedure that with hindsight did anticipate the outcome of the EU referendum with regard to the EU (Withdrawal) Act 2018.

      The EU (Withdrawl) Act 2018 sets out some EU powers over devolved areas that will ‘temporarily’ be reserved to Westminster.

      Logically the ‘delayed’ EU (Continuity) Act 2018 could become law AFTER the ‘temporary arrangements’ mentioned in the EU (Withdrawl) Act 2018 has ended.

    144. Dr Jim says:

      Rub Dock leaves on nettle stings and like Cillit Bang the sting is gone

    145. galamcennalath says:

      Nana says

      The endless Brexit lies have left us in an Orwellian nightmare http://archive.is/o9P7m

      This paints an accurate picture of Brexit. It was never meant to happen and was unthinkable. When Leave did win, to make happen, history had to be rewritten. So not only did we get the lies by which Leave won, but we’ve had nothing but lies since.

      ‘Orwellian nightmare’, yes, but I also think there’s a bit of The Matrix about it all too! The Tories are trying to convince everyone that their alter reality physically exists when it doesn’t.

      The article shows just how many twist and u turns there have been, and how all of these have been from one set of lies to another! No sense can be made of any one it.

    146. manandboy says:

      https://www.marketwatch.com/story/luke-perrys-fatal-stroke-is-a-warning-for-younger-adults-2019-03-05?siteid=rss&rss=1&mod=mixi

      Apologies for this intrusion.

      People know more about preventing a shark attack than about preventing a stroke. Starting right now, around 26,000 people in Scotland of all ages will have a stroke in the next 12 months. You can make sure you’re not one of them.

      I never even thought about stroke. Till I had one.

      Don’t come here.

      Better to swim with sharks. At least you can see them coming and get out of the water.

    147. Nana says:

      @manandboy

      Thanks for posting that article.

    148. Breeks says:


      Ken500 says:
      6 March, 2019 at 8:01 am
      How many days to Brexit it could be years…

      23 days.

      In 23 days time, Brexit happens if there is no successful initiative to stop it, and to be a successful initiative, any and every such initiative requires the active consent of every EU Member State prior to the Article 50 deadline expiring.

      The EU cannot instigate either the revocation or extension of Article 50 unless the Westminster Government initiates the action first… something which May has categorically declared herself against.

      Even in alternate circumstances where the Westminster Government was disposed to request an extension to the Article 50, the EU is not obliged to grant any such extension unless it is persuaded the extension of time will bear productive dividends. There are currently no such productive dividends in the offing.

      Again, in my opinion, nothing short a second Brexit referendum scheduled to be concluded with result announced before the EU Elections in May will persuade the EU to grant an extension to Article 50, and time to hold such a UK-wide referendum has largely expired already.

      The United Kingdom is now on an unstoppable Brexit trajectory, and if Scotland wants to avoid being Brexited, the only option is “not” to be a part of the UK when it happens.

      The only route to avoid Brexit in the available timeframe is through the Constitutional route, through a defiant affirmation of Sovereignty that is equal to the task of disputing and overturning the perceived ascendency of UK Parliamentary Sovereignty. Again, we have 23 days in which to do this.

      For the growing chorus of people saying the SNP has something big planned, then that’s great. If it’s true. However emancipation from the Union via Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty does not require any democratic mandate, and even if it did, it already has one. Hence there is great confusion and anxiety stirred when the SNP’s rhetoric remains consistent with holding a referendum. A credible escape from Brexit before 29th March really needs to start embracing Constitutional Issues, Sovereignty, Legal Personality, International recognition… Democratic solutions are all out of time.

      In short, the IndyRef train has already departed the platform. If we want to avoid Brexit, we embrace the Constitutional route and pray we have left ourselves enough time to secure the recognition we are going to need.

      At the very, very, minimum, it might, repeat might be adequate merely to dispute UK Sovereignty right at the death, and leave the legal processes to catch up with the claimed reality of Scotland’s stand-alone Sovereignty, but strikes me that is extremely risky and relies upon the favourable disposition of other countries. We might be ok on that score, but I honestly don’t know whether the formal dispute and recognition of Sovereignty can be retrospective. I believe we would be out of the EU trying to get back in, but more critically, outside the jurisdiction of the ECJ and defending ourselves from a delusional UK Parliament and it’s pet Judicial process and ongoing media indoctrination.

      I ask the serious question trying to be constructive about it… what is it we are actually for? The trigger to save ourselves from Brexit surely cannot be Brexit itself.

    149. sinky says:

      AS usual in the latest Global Wellness Rankings small nations dominate the best places in which to live.

      https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-04/global-wellness-rankings-these-are-the-best-places-to-live

      We should point out that ten European countries smaller than Scotland run successful economies using their own currency but I can see the attraction of using Sterling on independence day and simply saying Scotland will adopt its own currency as soon as practicable thereafter.

    150. robbo says:

      skydiver says:
      6 March, 2019 at 8:22 am
      Interesting debate now from yesterday on the BBC Parliament channel called,,,UK and Scottish government relationship.

      Aye watched it.

      What a little rat of a man that Ross Thompson is, the cheek of the little fecker. Why isn’t he back home in Aberdeen sacked by now following this sexual harassment case . Is his case going to be a white wash- you bet it is.

    151. ronnie anderson says:

      Dr Jim 2 for the price of heehaw lol , there’s been ah lot of advancement in toilet paper production 1 ply 2ply 3 ply 4ply ( posh git ) , we were brought up in the days of IZAL skiteee lol.

    152. auld highlander says:

      manandboy at 10.05

      It’s all a bit scarey when you realise just how close to the edge that we are living/have been living. The same lousy diet and lifestyle go hand in hand when it comes to strokes and heart attacks.

      I thought I had a healthy living life weighing in at 80K and one afternoon I felt slightly dizzy and nauseous, it went away after a few minutes then returned after about half an hour later and stayed so I was dropped off at Raigmore hospital where it was confirmed that I had had a massive heart attack, later that night I was transferred to the ARI as they don’t do stents after five at Raigmore. That evening they had to jump start me twice but I have escaped the grim reaper for now and living a much healthier life thanks to the excellent staff at the ARI and Raigmore. These guys are so dedicated to their work.

      So good readers ditch the pies and the tasty pastries, the fatty foods too and get on yer bike to get the blood pressure down and with any luck you will get to vote in indyref2.
      Modern processed foods are also a no no.

    153. Capella says:

      Would it not be sensible to wait at least another week? Westminster has a series of votes on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday to decide whether to go for May’s deal, take no deal off the table, or ask for an extension of Article 50.

      If May’s deal is passed, then Scotland goes for independence.
      If no deal isn’t passed then Scotland goes for independence.
      If Article 50 extension is passed then another 2 month wait is likely. Scotland could still go for independence at that point.

    154. ronnie anderson says:

      They’ve lost the plot lol.

      https://www.facebook.com/carmen123456/posts/10217164837887550

      Now the People of England might wake up on seeing this vid .

    155. Cubby says:

      BBC Reporting Scotland – last night.

      First report of the night a broadcast on safety at football matches etc.

      So that’s FIVE reports by Reporting Scotland on the troubles at football in recent days and still no word about the repeal last year by the Britnats and greens of the Offensive Behaviour at football act. In Reporting Scotland world it doesn’t not seem to be the case that it ever existed.

      Reporting Scotland motto – ” thou shalt not criticise the British Nationalist parties but thou MUST criticise the SNP every day.”

      The controversial British state funded broadcaster called the BBC.

    156. jfngw says:

      Jackson Carlaw has announced he is against referendums. Well that’s good news as we can now use the WM system that only requires a majority of MP’s from Scotland supporting independence to end the union. Looks like he may be a closet independence supporter, all converts welcome.

    157. jfngw says:

      Herald ask why was Nicola Sturgeon abroad when she should have been in the kitchen where women belong. Paraphrasing but I think it catches the gist of their story.

    158. SilverDarling says:

      What a great series this is.

      For new readers to WoS would it be useful to have a thread about what brought all of us to the idea that Independence is the right thing now?

      It seems this place is not often so much a barometer of change rather than a cementing of views. Were there any doubters who went from No to Yes during or after the campaign?

      I was never a vocal supporter of independence until the referendum. It was being asked to decide that made me look at my own views. It was also then that I stopped voting Labour, the sense of betrayal then and now is something that still shocks me. I was worried I was doing the right thing but I am glad I did vote Yes, the doubts about that decision are long gone.

      We come to our own decisions in different ways. I never found tub-thumping persuasive in anything, nor being told I was stupid for not agreeing with people who were so sure they could not acknowledge doubt or uncertainty.

      That’s why this series is so good it allows people to talk without fear of ridicule or guilt about why they changed their mind. People swither and dither all the time – they should have room to do that, even here.

    159. Sinky says:

      Theresa May has just lied again in Parliament when she claims the SNP does not have a mandate for independence.

    160. mountain shadow says:

      This is where we need to get smart…

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47468571

      The fines for breaking electoral rules are so paltry that come Indyref2 (If Nicola ever has the bottle to hold it) we need to get smart and simply do whatever we like to get the end result we want.

      It worked for the Brexiteers campaign and could work for us too.

    161. Proud Cybernat says:

      “Theresa May has just lied again in Parliament when she claims the SNP does not have a mandate for independence.”

      It doesn’t. It has a mandate (triple-locked) to hold an independence referendum.

    162. Hamish100 says:

      Ian Blackford good again at PM Questions.

      Noticed that the Pm underlings didn’t even bother listening to her answer laughing and joking as she gave a tepid reply.

      If the tories don’t listen to their own boss why should we?

    163. Capella says:

      Apos if this has already been posted. Kezia Dugdale has criticised Richard Leonard for editing an MEPs statement before putting it out, without her permission.

      Thought to be part of Kezia’s exit strategy from SLab.

      http://archive.fo/cqB05

    164. Baldeagle58 says:

      Proud Cybernat says:

      6 March, 2019 at 12:46 pm

      “Theresa May has just lied again in Parliament when she claims the SNP does not have a mandate for independence.”

      It doesn’t. It has a mandate (triple-locked) to hold an independence referendum.

      So true Proud Cybernat.
      I hope it’s pointed out by SNP MPs that May is telling lies…. Oops ‘Being Economical with the Truth’ again!

    165. HandandShrimp says:

      I see an in depth BBC investigation has discovered that if you live a long way from a hospital you will wait longer for an ambulance than if the hospital is in the same street as your house.

      It is remarkable journalism…the sort that puts Watergate in the shade.

    166. HandandShrimp says:

      Is Kezia about to join the Independent Group?

    167. chicmac says:

      “If they made that clear during the campaign by getting early offers on the table, it would help our cause enormously.”

      I don’t think they would do that, it would be counted as interference and encouragement.

      Only the USA and England are allowed to do that sort of thing because they are exceptional.

      They could make it clear that should Scotland become independent and applied for EU membership then there would be no barrier to the fastest possible expedition of that but that is rather different.

    168. Breeks says:


      Baldeagle58 says:
      6 March, 2019 at 1:20 pm
      Proud Cybernat says:

      6 March, 2019 at 12:46 pm

      “Theresa May has just lied again in Parliament when she claims the SNP does not have a mandate for independence.”

      If Scotland is subjugated by Brexit, the Treaty of Union is irredeemably breached and Scotland’s Government does have a mandate for independence.

    169. Dr Jim says:

      @ronnie anderson

      Izal, there was a rough side and a smooth side, the smooth side skited aff yer Erse, and the rough side? well that’s the story of how Tarzan got his famous shout

      He yased the rough side Aghehahehaaaahh!

    170. msean says:

      Welcome to Yes.

    171. Cactus says:

      Hey Jenny, guid tae have ye wae us, aye we dinnae need tae now second-guess when we can Journey to Yes… 🙂

      Good setting from Elderpark Library, by the park, near Govan.

      “Grab your imaginary parachute ukBrexiters” from our INTERnational EU:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsZQnnolc50

    172. Baldeagle58 says:

      Breeks says:

      6 March, 2019 at 1:42 pm

      Baldeagle58 says:
      6 March, 2019 at 1:20 pm
      Proud Cybernat says:

      6 March, 2019 at 12:46 pm

      “Theresa May has just lied again in Parliament when she claims the SNP does not have a mandate for independence.”

      If Scotland is subjugated by Brexit, the Treaty of Union is irredeemably breached and Scotland’s Government does have a mandate for independence.

      Exactly Breeks, without the need of an IndyRef 2 either.
      If Westminsters actions clearly break the terms of the Treaty of Union, (in fact have they not already done so?), then the Scottish Government can turn around and tell them, as THEY broke the Treaty, that Scotland is an Independent Country once again.
      They can have their ‘Engxit’ and the Sovereign Will of the Scottish People can be upheld by our Parliament approaching the EU, asking to take up the British membership.

    173. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Capella @ 12:58,

      Hmmm, I wonder if Kezia has been talking to Jakey Rowling lately?

      Wonder if after being summarily “edited”, Catherine Stihler is thinking of following suit?

      Wonder how long the hapless Richard Who? will last before the poisoned chalice passes on yet again to the next barrel-scraped victim…?

      Questions, questions,,, =grin=

    174. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Capella @ 12:58,

      Hmmm, I wonder if Kezia has been talking to Jakey Rowling lately?

      Wonder if after being summarily “edited” by the Great Leader, Catherine Stihler is thinking of following suit?

      Wonder how long the hapless Richard Who? will last before the poisoned chalice passes on again to the next less-competent victim…?

      Questions, questions… =grin=

    175. Robert Peffers says:

      @jfngw says: 6 March, 2019 at 12:05 am:

      ” … MP’s can chose one of the three oaths below (I think Scottish ones only have the option of the first one). They all look like you swear allegiance to the monarch, hence why Sinn Fein will never take it.”

      No, jfngw, there is a very significant difference between the three choices.

      The third one does not refer to God. Now this may not at first seem significant but is greatly so. Let me explain:-
      The whole concept of sovereignty is based upon the idea that the Sovereign person or persons are chosen by God or that they are appointed by God.

      Now read number three with that in mind and remembering that the Queen is NOT sovereign, (i.e. appointed by God), in Scotland but that the people of Scotland are sovereign under Scottish Law :-

      “I (name of Member) do solemnly, sincerely, and truly declare and affirm, that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, her heirs and successors, according to law.

      Under Scottish Law the Queen/King is the leader chosen by the sovereign people as their defender of their sovereignty according to law.

      Scottish law states that the people can drive out a monarch the people judge not to be doing the job they were chosen to do and there is no mention of swearing by God but affirming by law and it is according to Scottish Law.

      Got it now? they affirm to be loyal to the monarch chosen by the legally sovereign people of Scotland according to Scottish Law.

      Or to put it another way they affirm, (not swear a oath by God), their loyalty to Scottish law that is the law of the legally sovereign people of Scotland. The monarch being NOT Gods representative but the people’s representative.

    176. Cactus says:

      Consider the journey former no voters, save yer ain mutton…

      Here be another ‘so-called Brexit’ analogy:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m2HJpGtv70

      After-WARNING: Viewer discretion NOW advised.

    177. Cactus says:

      Aye, there’s now nae need tae second-guess… just Journey to Yes.

      Be sure to take your Journey before:
      howmanydaystill.com/its/ukexit-1

      Tom Petty NOW playing on indylive.radio

    178. Robert Peffers says:

      @cynicalHighlander says: 6 March, 2019 at 12:27 am:
      ” … An awful lot of crowns there.”

      Aye! cynicalHighlander, but you entirely miss the point. It is so easy to fool the average person who does not usually give such matters some deep thought.

      The crown of Scotland means something quite different from the crown of England.

      The English crown represents the sovereignty of a legally sovereign monarch, and by legal delegation of the royal power of the divine right of kings, the sovereignty of the parliament of England, (not of the parliament of the United Kingdom).

      he Scottish crown represents the appointed defender of the legally sovereign people of Scotland and their legally delegated parliament of Scotland.

      In other words the Scottish crown represents the people of Scotland but the English Crown represents the monarch/kingdom of England parliament and there hasn’t been a legally elected parliament of England since 30 April 1707.

      That’s the big con Scotland has been fooled by for 312 years.

    179. Brian Powell says:

      I have heard that breaking the Treaties or Acts of the Union have been tested in UK courts as a means of dissolving the Union but didn’t succeed.

      I wonder if any cases have been taken to international courts to be tested, such as the European Court of Justice, or taken to body such as the United Nations, just for a ruling?

    180. Brian Powell says:

      I mean breaches of the Acts or Treaties.

    181. geeo says:

      I honestly have no idea why Breeks is not FM of Scotland, as he and he alone has a plan for indy.

      You have an OPINION, Breeks, not absolute fact that your way is the only way.

      Are you saying that you know better than Nicola, her legal advisors, and the collective intellect of the entire SNP ?

      Seriously ?

    182. K1 says:

      Glasgow Uni and RBS headquarters in Edinburgh have had ‘suspicious packages’reported. Uni has led all students and staff off premises.University avenue and area surrounding blocked off, just in case anyone in that area is wondering why. Not sure of situation in Edinburgh.

    183. Robert Peffers says:

      @Robert J. Sutherland says: 6 March, 2019 at 12:57 am:
      … I can’t decide whether the BritNats in Holyrood are deliberately acting as idiots in order to bring the institution into disrepute – and thus undermine it – or whether they are political barrel-scrapings without a damn clue.”

      Well, Robert, if they are acting they are all individually worthy of winning an Oscar and each one of them could earn big bucks treading the boards.

      I believe we can confidently conclude they are most decidedly the genuine article that fits your second speculation and could earn a crust scraping barrels – assuming, of course, they had enough savvy to figure out where such skills were in demand.

    184. geeo says:

      Come on then, Brian Powell @2.48pm, where did you hear that from ?

      Someone who clearly does not understand what a treaty is.

      If a treaty is a MUTUALLY AGREED set of terms and conditions, between 2 equal parties, then why would one party need permission from the other equal partner to end the treaty.

      That would not be a treaty.

      The Treaty of Union is a treaty between 2 LEGALLY EQUAL partner Kingdoms.

      It says so on the tin.

      So anyone telling you one party needs ‘permission’ to end it, from the other, is either a) deliberately misleading you, or b) has no idea what they are talking about.

      So again, i ask, where did you hear that from ?

    185. Robert Peffers says:

      @Still Positive says: 6 March, 2019 at 1:01 am:

      ” … Joanna Cherry is an asset to our cause.”

      Yes, a great lady. She isn’t alone. I think I can confidently say there has not been such a great representation of Scottish politics at Westminster in my lifetime.

      Not a low flying Jimmy or Jamima in the bunch of the SNP MPs. Some of the younger ones have been real surprises and mature well above their years.

    186. Cactus says:

      Turning out to be a sunny fun-day… it’ll soon be time to get a crowd ra-gither-again excellent Wingers… it’s gonna be a great great great weekend.

      Afternoon Tinto, ah’d never seen or heard this music video before that you played on off-topic… it’s a belter, worthy and ever-relevant of shareage on here, cheers bro:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzehb_yeZtU

      (NB The electro in the above reminds me of Devo’s “Peek-a-Boo” too hehe, aweright aweright aweright, ah’ll dae it, okay then:)
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eglgj77T0rk

    187. gus1940 says:

      Don’t forget Debate Night tonight.

    188. Clootie says:

      Can you all please stop pointing out the obvious ineptitude of Richard Leonard. It is important that we keep him in place. It could seriously damage our chances if he was replaced by a powerful charismatic oratory genius such as James Kelly.

      Willie Rennie and Richard Leonard are proving very effective for the SNP at present.

    189. Breeks says:


      geeo says:
      6 March, 2019 at 2:54 pm

      Are you saying that you know better than Nicola, her legal advisors, and the collective intellect of the entire SNP ?

      Can’t answer that until I know the final details.

    190. Clootie says:

      Geeo

      Don’t shoot the messenger!

      I think the unionists interpret the Act of Union as giving the “New Parliament” authority over the United countries.i.e. Scotland and England surrendered their authority to that “New Parliament”./ Union.
      Since the Parliament holds that power they are convinced one country cannot leave without Westminster approval.(The UK parliament)

      I may not agree but I see it being a challenge.

    191. Robert Peffers says:

      @Robert Louis says: 6 March, 2019 at 7:14 am:

      ” … LOOK AT THIS.”

      You are too late Robert Louis, Breeks got there before you but I’ve no doubt the other SNP deTRACTORS will be along shortly.

      You are all fully aware that posting such tripe on open forums harms the movement. You all also know that posting it on open forums will do nothing whatsoever to get the SNP to change anything.

      You all know that to make changes you need to engage with the party and not with commenters on open forums. What then is your real agenda?

    192. bjsalba says:

      Comment on one of Nana’s links
      http://archive.is/qJlXb Donald Tusk claims anti-European forces meddled in Brexit vote
      This is a Guardian article and it describes Donald Tusk as “a former prime minister of Poland and vociferous critic of Vladimir Putin.”

      That seems to be pushing the US and UK Tory line as to who are the bad guys. I don’t buy it as It leaves out the Cambridge Analytica connections to the USA far right and their accomplices including if somewhat indirectly, Facebook.

    193. Cactus says:

      Observe, look, learn, understand, realise.

      Complimentary countdown clock:
      https://howmanydaystill.com/its/mays-latest-no-deal

      With compliments.

    194. Cubby says:

      Clootie@3.27pm

      Did the UK ask for the EU’s permission before triggering Article 50 to leave the EU – no.

      Did Trump ask for Iran’s permission before leaving the International Treaty with Iran – no.

      Your ” message” is just Britnatliars propaganda. So I am shooting the message.

    195. robin says:

      I think ‘Robert Louis’s agenda is obvious as an anti independence troll, just wondering if he’s a red tory or blue tory , probably the latter as they are the ones who are so contorted with fury usually

    196. Nana says:

      Speaking of Scot govt’s Continuity Bill, Deirdre Brock asks whether the UK retrospectively changing the rules to make it more unlikely to pass isn’t a hostile action. Unsurprising response there came. Also, she asks about the new UK Govt in Scotland hub offices in Edinburgh. Hmm.

      https://twitter.com/RobDunsmore/status/1102953943812980741

    197. Cactus says:

      Hey Liz, thanks for these beauties xx!

      ‘Pog mo thon’
      ‘Thoir ifrinn ort’
      ‘Daireadh’
      ‘Rach’

      “Theresa May can pog mo thon!
      Her cabinet can, thoir ifrinn ort!
      Too daireadh true.
      Rach this fur a government”

      Ah’ll be sure to squeeze em in somewhere along the way…

      Rach them Rachers. 😉

    198. SilverDarling says:

      @Robert Peffers

      Not everyone who supports independence is a member of the SNP or even wants to be. Voicing frustration at the party who is in power at the moment is reasonable on an open forum, because that is what it is, an open forum.

      How does this ‘harm the movement’? People might come here for answers, not to be bawled at. Surely persuasive evidence that the SNP are doing the right thing from members in the loop is more helpful than telling people to shut and go away?

      Dave MacEwan Hill says that at his branch things are gearing up and they have been given instructions to be visible and presumably ready to go to battle.there will be more from delegates after the conference. That is helpful, it tells us stuff is happening.

      If you want everyone to speak with one voice, i.e yours, then start your own blog and get rid of all the dissenting voices. Until then it is up to the Rev who is allowed to say what.

    199. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Robert Peffers @ 15:31

      SNP deTRACTORS

      Enough of this. You have gone too far, you bumptious empty barrel. It seems that according to you there is no comment which transgresses your self-imposed interpretation of SNP policy that doesn’t qualify to be a complete betrayal of the cause. In your insufferable arrogance and intolerance you are absolutely poisoning free discussion on this site.

      It’s NOT an effing SNP fan site, much though you seem to wish it. What on earth do you mean to achieve, for example, by spouting screeds of waffle about SNP internal procedures, as you again did recently? Whom does that convince, exactly? The main intended effect seems to be to silence SNP members, and judging by your nasty remarks, the rest of us should shut up as well.

      Bollocks to that, self-appointed Commissar Puffer.

      Here’s a recent quote that presumably would fail the Puffer Piffle Test:

      Imminent announcements on indyref2 have been trailed so often that no one is taking them seriously now. […] Now is the time for action – action this day.

      And who was the author of this scandalous heterodox proposition? None other than Tasmina, who as far as I know is still an influential member of the SNP (despite the clumsily-written description “Ex-SNP MP” in The National).

      There is no-one on here who truly supports indy who doesn’t fully recognise the pre-eminent and well-earned position of the SNP. That’s doesn’t mean as critical friends we have to agree with every iota of what the party is about according to Puffer. After all, the party is a far broader church than you seem to believe, as that quote amply illustrates.

      A word is all that is required to the wise, but you seem to be impervious to any and all reactions, and if anything are getting ever more intolerant instead. Well, you can take the above toxic and near-slanderous comment and shove it, you buffoon.

    200. jfngw says:

      @Robert Peffers

      They are taking an oath to a Monarch, it doesn’t really matter which one.

      The phrase ‘under the law’ is vague enough to no doubt have lawyers occupied for some time as it doesn’t state which law (Scots or English). Are they using English law because they take the oath in England or Scots law because they are MP’s from Scotland. The oath doesn’t make a distinction.

    201. Ken500 says:

      Brexit in 23 days.

      Aye right. Joke of the century. Laughable. Hysteria.

      The Westminster Tory/unionist shambles is a world laughing stock. What a mess.

    202. Robert Peffers says:

      @Robert Louis says: 6 March, 2019 at 7:58 am:

      ” … You talk of getting a grip, do remind me how many days it is until Brexit”

      Oh! Dear! Have you forgotten already?

      Memory loss is such a terrible disease. With any luck your local Health Board consultant won’t be an EU person who will be going home due to the Westminster plans for exiting the Eu.

    203. Ken500 says:

      Tasmina is no longer an elected representative. Sorry.

      Last election some people in Scotland decided to vote Tory. Labour illegally told them to. It prevented a Labour administration and better SNP representation for Scotland. Some people never learn. Never trust a Tory/unionist or any of the rest of them. Now tearing their parties to bits, A toxic mess.

    204. Clootie says:

      Cubby

      I’m quite confident that those on here know my allegiance. Your examples are very poor. These were actions by recognised Nations. Unfortunately you have to be recognised as a nation by having followed due process. You may not like that but until the Saltire flies outside the UN this is the road you have to travel.

    205. Ghillie says:

      Robert Peffers, you have taken quite a battering on behalf of the Indy Movement.

      Wish I could buffer that for you.

      Some of it is fair debate and questioning of your take on the ‘union’ (which I find enlightening!). Some of it is just unionist shite.

      Please know that for each comment, their are hundreds who do not comment, but observe, who agree with you, who have your back.

      Keep going. We’ve got your back =)

    206. Legerwood says:

      O/T

      Not a good day in Court for the UK Government – again.

      Parts of its national* planning policy for fracking have been ruled ‘unlawful’. The judge also said that climate change can be used as an objection to planning applications for fracking.
      *England, of course.

      Report in the Guardian here:

      http://archive.is/MLckB

    207. SilverDarling says:

      @Ghillie

      Whoever or whatever Robert Peffers is, he is not the Independence Movement.

      I know some here think he is a sacred cow but really? The way he treats dissenting voices is shocking. Please know that for every comment slapping him on the back there are many who think what an absolute roaster.

    208. Ghillie says:

      Legerwood, fracking is not good anywhere, any time!

      A totally mad idea any where on this lovely Earth!

    209. Donald Mac says:

      SilverDarling @ 12.25pm

      I was always quite politically nieve but when the 2014 ref was announced I was pretty much leaning towards a Yes anyway. As the ref date approached I heard on BBC news something that worried me and made me question if I should vote yes. I can’t remember the news item specifically but it went along the lines of Scotland is too poor and disaster awaits a yes vote.

      After that news I remember thinking if I should vote NO so I went and had a look for more info. I had a look at the BBC site to read more then I went and had a hunt for more info online. As I searched I found more and more blogs and sites that confirmed what I’d heard on the news was in fact lies. From that moment on if I heard anything negative on BBC I took it with a pinch of salt and looked to see what alternative media was saying. It didn’t take long to make me 100% YES, before the referendum.

      Everyone will have a different scenario that led them to a YES vote. It was as simple for me as going on a wee fact finding mission, and once I’d seen that the BBC openly lied, I quickly saw through the other lies across the entire media and how these lies were perpetrated by the unionist parties. Until that point I genuinely believed that if it was on BBC it was true. I mean how could our state broadcaster blatantly lie? The idea seemed inconceivable to me until then!

      I then found Wings and became far more politically aware of the situation Scotland is in within the union. I lurk here daily but rarely post, just learn and research.

      Thanks to Stu, Wings and all informed contributors I’ve been able to educate myself enough to engage with people and have managed to convert quite a few No’s to Yes since 2014. One was even a Tory voter! All it took there was to point him to Wings and he did his own research from there. 🙂

    210. cynicalHighlander says:

      Robert Peffers

      Ta

    211. Ken500 says:

      Dugdale who illegally told people to vote Tory which helped prevented a Labour administration at Westminster and prevented better SNP representation in Scotland. Not happy with the Labour Party. Even more stirring. Another split. What a calamity.

    212. Cubby says:

      Clootie@5.21pm

      I never said anything about your allegiance. So why do you raise it? You won’t be the first independence supporter to fall for Britnatliar propaganda nor the last.

      The message is Britnatliar propaganda. Sorry you do not like my examples but they are examples of international treaties being terminated by one party to the treaty. The Kingdom of Scotland is a signatory to the Treaty of Union – one of two signatories – both sovereign. Both still sovereign.

      Sorry but your reply makes no sense to me. You are basically saying that Scotland has to be independent before it can terminate the Treaty. BUT if Scotland is independent then the Treaty must be terminated already. Independence is terminating the Treaty. A referendum on independence is one possible process to terminating the Treaty.

      It is not a matter of what I like. It is a matter of law – Scots law.

      This whole mindset of having to ask Westminster’s permission is just demonstrating a servile attitude. When where did Scotland become part of an unitary state? Even the Maybot goes on about the precious UNION. The UK is a union constituted by the existing Treaty of Union. I repeat it is not an unitary state.

    213. Ghillie says:

      Silver Darling, when I see your name I think of Lewis Grassic Gibbons’ novels and the fishing of the herring. All very close to my family history. So that, perhaps, incorrectly gives weight to your comments for me.

      Robert Peffers is a man, whose comments I have been following for some years. You and others are new to me.

      Yup, Mr RP comes down on us like a tonne of bricks when we forget the lessons he and others have laid before us. We, The Indy Movement, unlike the unionists, are on a learning curve.

      When I, and others, who are seasoned travelers on the Road to Independence, hear a voice that jangles, that does not sound like an interested and willing to engage individual, (and I can assure you, there is a distinct tone that is a tell tale) we do stand up for those we know to be true to the effort to gain Scotland’s Independence.

      I know that I can also trust the inteligence and discerning nature of readers of Wings 🙂

    214. geeo says:

      There has been a recent co-ordinated attack on Robert Peffers, which has never happened on Wings in the 6 years i have read this blog.

      Some of these posters are people who have NEVER reacted in such a way previously, so the question is an obvious one.

      Why NOW ?

      I doubt we need to take a wild guess as to that one.

      I have gently enquired if such a seemingly coordinated attack by multiple posters, old and new, is acceptable to the Blog Owner, bearing in mind the rules about not “playing the man” or in these recent cases, clear and obvious attempts at bullying by multiple posters.

      I have not reported names, YET.

      But if it continues and I consider it as bullying, i absolutely WILL report such actions.

      NOBODY comes on here to be bullied, and nobody is a shrinking violet, you can expect to hear the odd retort of “pish” in its many forms, but the difference between someone saying you are talking ‘pish’ then explaining WHY it is pish, is far removed from “ganging up” on someone for the sake of it.

      This place has had enough trouble with abusive posters recently, without regular posters employing similair tactics against a well respected contributor.

      Robert is brash at times, but are we all angels ?

      I know i am not.

      As is said on here a fair bit recently, “we see you”.

    215. SilverDarling says:

      @ Geeo

      Maybe some of us have just had enough? This site is for everyone regardless of whether you are in the SNP or not.

      ‘We see you’ How menacing is that?

    216. Maria F says:

      SilverDarling says:
      6 March, 2019 at 4:42 pm

      “How does this ‘harm the movement’?”

      Very easily:
      Divide an conquer and projecting over others are the two most frequent strategies used by the English establishment 3 political arms and their useful idiots.

      We have against us the entire force of the British Establishment, a british establishment that is stronger than us and that is desperate to retain control of Scotland’s precious assets.

      The only strengths we have are democracy and our own determination to win and will. It is only on a solid, united front that we will win. There is no room for hairline cracks that can be exploited to make a much bigger crack.

      You like it or not, the sNP is the only pro-independent party that is today in any position whatsoever to get independence for Scotland. If you really want independence you channel your energy on fighting for it, not fighting against those that are fighting with you for the same goal. Can you imagine in a war if a batallion of allies was fighting another batallion of allies instead of the enemy? No. Same here.

      We will only get independence through the SNP, so for the only ones that there is any use to chop the hand of the party that will bring independence for us is for those who don’t want us to get independence.

      Think about it. Do you want independence or not?

    217. Tackety Beets says:

      Donald Mac @ 5.34pm

      Good on you Donald.
      I’m 60+ & been Indy my whole life.

      On Sept 18th 2014 did my X & placed sheet in box & as I walked down the hall to exit a funny feeling of “I hope I have done the right thing” kinda overcame me.
      It was a very odd doubting myself feeling.

      I thought for a moment & concluded it must have been ALL the Lies on all TV stations falsehoods subconsciously working in the background.

      The evil of MSM etc Grrrrrr

    218. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Ghillie @ 17:23:

      their [sic] are hundreds who do not comment, but observe, who agree with you,

      Unsubstianted tosh. You did a poll I missed somehow?

      Being little god of a small coterie of faithful acolytes is all well and good, but if you think that adulation justifies the messiah bullying a perfectly decent pro-indy poster off the site, you haven’t been paying enough attention to the outside world lately.

      Sorcha was one such lurker, and her contribution the other day was as sharp and cutting as Toledo steel, but it contained some uncomfortable home truths (for some). (Even if she was unjustifibly harsh on Dr Jim, IMO) I held my wheesht then for the sake of peace, but today was just pushing the luck too far.

      I only wish that lurker would return and turn her evident talents outward instead of feeling the necessity to do it inward. We need to encourage people to post and discuss, not dismiss and intimidate them with cheap and unjustified imprecations.

      The pre-eminence of the SNP is precisely why we devote so much attention to its (complex) attitudes and actions. After all, its success is our success.

    219. ronnie anderson says:

      Silver Darling I Fekin see Ur posts attacking RP, am I menacing to your sensitivities Build ah Bridge an get er it .

    220. Ken500 says:

      The Terms of the Act of Union include the narrative that the terms can be broken by agreement (of each countries representatives). Especially if the terms of the agreement are broken. One of which is that Scotland had to be treated equally. That has never happened. There have been two different fiscal Laws implemented by Westminster. Scotland resources being taken to fund London S/E. Universal suffrage 1928. The Barnett Formula 1980’s etc ensure Scotland wealth and resources were taken secretly and illegally to fund London S/E. Facts kept secretly and illegally under the Official Secrets Act by Thatcher etc. Funding criminal banking fraud, tax evasion, building Canary Wharf and Tilbury Dock (26mls) and illegal wars etc.

      Scotland was to be treated equally. There was to be a shared Protestant monarchy and Scotland was guaranteed a separate Church (education), and legal system forever.

    221. Capella says:

      @ geeo – there has been a previous concerted attack on Robert Peffers. I don’t remember the individuals involved. But it coincided with an imminent vote (possibly the 2017 election).

      The purpose may be to undermine the very relevant historical information which Robert spells out. His message is quite unique and I am not aware of this information ever being broadcast before. So I appreciate Robert’s perseverance.
      Not eveyrone feels the same obviously.

    222. skydiver says:

      Tensions are growing the nearer we get to THE announcement.

    223. Ken500 says:

      One reason that Scotland achieved Devolution was because it was recognised there was so little Democracy for Scotland. A total deficiency within the UK Union. Comparable unfavourable to Eastern European states getting realised to self determination. That is why there had to be action taken (Blair) or the UK would have be thrown out of the EU. Westminster was breaking human rights principles. Still are. Every promise made by Westminster politicians at the IndyRef1 were immediately illegally broken. Why it would be declared null and void. Same as the EURef. Every electoral Law was broken by Westminster politicians and their associates.

    224. Dr Jim says:

      Aye, I’m an absolute sweetheart full of good humour and jolly japes with a winning personality

      How very dare she/he….kiss kiss xxx

    225. sandy says:

      Clootie @ 3.27 pm.

      I understand that the TREATY of UNION is made up of two ACTS, both Scottish & English. If a treaty is broken, it no longer exists, not at least until reparations have been made. (HOL trying to pull a fast one?)

      Further, here is an intriguing point. As the parliament of England no longer exists, where do we Scots stand in law? Have we been duped for all those 300+ years?

      Should every WM bill concerning Scotland be annulled henceforth?

    226. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      1. Robert Peffers has educated a lot of us over the past few years, particularly in respect of events leading up to the 1707 union and the actual Treaty of Union.

      2. For this we should express a big “Thank You”.

      3. Not all Yessers are members of the SNP.

      4. Not all Wingers are members of the SNP.

      5. Wings Over Scotland below the article/line (BTL) comments are open to anyone who wants to post a comment.

      6. Some comments will be posted by Yessers/Wingers who are not members of the SNP.

      7. This being the case, there is no point in suggesting that their comments/concerns should be raised at SNP branch meetings and not aired BTL on WOS. That would appear to be a curtailment of “freedom of speech” of those who are not SNP members.

      8. The (almost) infinite space below Rev Stu’s articles is there for public use as long as the Rev’s rules are followed. See under “COMMENTING” and “ETIQUETTE AND FORMATTING” at:-

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/about/

      9. The expression of frustration, caused by not knowing what is planned re indyref2 (or any other road to independence), can seem, to some, to be criticism of the SNP. Is it?

      10. I have read BTL quite a number of literal “attacks” on Yessers who have been commenting on here for years – some of whom I have met at Wings get-togethers or independence rallies. These “attacks” appear to be in answer by those Yessers’ “expression of frustration”.

      11. This saddens me. Most of us here are on the same pro-independence side of the argument. We should not be sticking virtual knives into each other.

    227. Dorothy Devine says:

      BDTT, well said that man.

    228. ronnie anderson says:

      BDTT I’ve lost count of the many times Wingers have been the subject for abuse from relatively new posters on some of our more distinguished Wingers , we’ve been well informed by the likes of RP & other distinguished Wingers/Commentaries, it comes & goes such is life .

    229. Robert Peffers says:

      @Breeks says: 6 March, 2019 at 10:26 am:

      ” … I believe we would be out of the EU trying to get back in, but more critically, outside the jurisdiction of the ECJ and defending ourselves from a delusional UK Parliament and it’s pet Judicial process and ongoing media indoctrination.”

      Very debatable. In the first place some elements of the Kingdom of Scotland’s case are already under examination of the ECJ and, in any case, on matters of ending the union there are only two kingdoms in the United Kingdom and they are, of necessity, equally sovereign. That means legally the Kingdom of Scotland has as much claims as has the Kingdom of England, neither can legally claim superiority. Legally, if either says the United Kingdom has ended then it has ended and there is an international Treaty of Union to prove those points.

      Second of all even if the ECJ has no jurisdiction the ICJ has and if it came to international recognition there are probably at least 27 other World States to recognise Scotland’s claims.

      Now I may be wrong but I’m always very suspicious when someone engaging in a legal argument automatically adopts the views of only one side of the opposing factions. Like you do by always seeing things from the unionist perspective.

      Now I’m most certainly biased towards the Kingdom of Scotland side of the debate but I do try to see things as they legally are and not as either side claims them to be.

      So:-
      The United Kingdom is constituted by the Treaty of Union 1706/7. It only has two signatory kingdoms 0n the Treaty of Union.
      It is thus a bipartite union of Kingdoms
      If either kingdom declares the treaty ended – it is ended.
      There doesn’t even need to have been any breaches of the treaty.
      The resultant breakup means there is no longer a United Kingdom.
      If there is no UK then there is no UK Government.
      On 30 April 1707 the Kingdom of England parliament ended permanently.
      On 30 April 1707 the Kingdom of Scotland Parliament was prorogued.
      On 12 May 1999 the first meeting of the adjourned Scottish Parliament took place when Winnie Ewing reconvened the parliament that was adjourned in 1707.

      Now those are indisputable facts. Upon the United Kingdom parliament ending by Scotland declaring the Union ended there is no legal parliament of England and no legal parliament of the United Kingdom but there is a legally elected parliament of Scotland.

      Just what legally elected parliament is going to dispute Scotland’s claim?

    230. Maria F says:

      sandy says:
      6 March, 2019 at 7:07 pm
      Clootie @ 3.27 pm.

      “I understand that the TREATY of UNION is made up of two ACTS, both Scottish & English”

      I believe there is a Treaty of Union and there are two Acts, one passed in the Parliament of Scotland and another passed in the Parliament of England that approved and ratified that treaty.

      It is a bit like May’s dodgy EU deal: there is a political agreement with the EU (aka the international treaty or withdrawal agreement) but this is totally worthless unless it is approved by an Act in the UK parliament and another in the EU parliament. The same here.

      The articles of the Treaty of Union (the political agreement/treaty, if you like) were agreed on 22 July 1706 and this is indicated in the Acts of Union themselves. However the Act of Union with England in the Parliament of Scotland was not passed and signed until January 1707 and that was after some amendments of the articles of the treaty. The Act of Union with Scotland was passed in the Parliament of England soon after. The Treaty of Union received the royal assent in March 1707.

      It is not like in the case of the 1800 union with Ireland where there were only 2 Acts passed. In the case of Scotland and the Kingdom of England, there were many long and hard negotiations among commissioners (and bribes) before reaching a political agreement/treaty was possible. But then Ireland had already been annexed by the Kingdom of England. Scotland was never annexed by the Kingdom of England and was a completely independent state acting as a completely independent state.

    231. Gary45% says:

      Mr Peffers, just keep “doin whit yer doin”, when they attack you personally they are losing.
      Yoons will never “Get It”
      Simples.

    232. Cubby says:

      A question which people should ask themselves is: why is so little (if anything) taught in schools etc about the Treaty of Union 1706/7 and subsequent 2 Acts of union in 1707 that created/ constituted the UK that we all live in.

      Surely this should be top of the list for anyone in the UK to understand what it is and why it was created.

      Similarly, another question is: why does Westminster claim there is no written constitution for the UK when most of the rest of the world have written constitutions. Did Harry Potter just magic up the UK using his wand.

    233. Robert Peffers says:

      @sinky says:6 March, 2019 at 10:26 am:

      ” … I can see the attraction of using Sterling on independence day and simply saying Scotland will adopt its own currency as soon as practicable thereafter.”

      Nope! Scotland has no need to adopt anything. The Treaty of Union clearly states that both of the only two kingdoms that signed the Treaty of Union would adopt the Pound Sterling. It thus belongs equally to both kingdoms of the United Kingdom.

      BTW: England does not own the Bank of England as it was nationalised by the Two Partner United Kingdom in 1946. It thus belongs to both partner kingdoms.

      But I digress – The pound Sterling is the legal currency of both UK kingdoms and Scots Banknotes are distinctively Scottish. It is not unknown for separate countries to use the same currency. There are several countries that use the dollar and some even use the USA dollar and even tie its value to the USA dollar.

      For an example of two countries using the Dollar but not tied to each other Canada and the USA both use the Dollar but the two currencies are not tied to each other. Far as I know there has never been any problems. However even Hong Kong uses the dollar but it too is not tied to the USA or Canadian Dollar.

      There simply are no problems in Scotland keeping the pound Sterling as the Scottish Currency. They could tie it to the English pound then when it was a suitable time let it float on its own merits.

      In fact the infamous McCrone Report’s main threat that scared the shit out of Westminster warned Westminster that a independent Scotland with a pound tied to the English pound would seriously embarrass England by becoming far too strong against the English Pound.

      Far from the English pound harming the Scottish economy The McCrone Report predicted that the Scottish Pound would harm what he called, “The United Kingdom”.

      Thing is as I keep pointing out to wingers, who just cannot get their heads around the truth, when Scotland leaves the United Kingdom ends. We won’t be leaving the United Kingdom we will be ending it and what we leave behind will be the Kingdom of England.

      Thing is that now the effect that McCrone warned Westminster about will be much, much worse for England. Now we not only have the oil & gas but electric power, food, water and other exports we didn’t have when the original McCrone was frightening Westminster stiff.

      So we keep the pound, tie it to the English Pound until it hardens enough to threaten the English economy and forces them to untie the two currencies or they adopt something else. Don’t take my word for it go read the McCrone Report. That was the main fear that McCrone warned them about.

    234. Cubby says:

      Geeo@3.06pm

      Well said.

    235. Essexexile says:

      @BDTT
      Very good points.
      The lack of acceptance of new Yessers by some of the more extreme members of the indy movement is a real concern. It may well be a big contributing factor as to why the polls appear so stubbornly against a major swing to Yes.
      There are seasoned Wingers who will doubtless be determined to ‘out’ Jenny Constable as a Unionist plant, tell her to f**k off and call her a loser and a c*nt (all of which was directed at me in my early days as a recent Yes convert on Wings).

    236. Iain mhor says:

      Frequently I see an error leading to discord. For example, the SNP is not YES. It is a party tool to help achieve independence.
      SNP voters constituted circa 54% of the 45% YES vote in 2014. Around 34% (of the 45%) came from voters of “Other” parties. An additional circa 10% came from non-voters. An apolitical section of the electorate who do not vote in elections.

      Pardon? I’m getting there. The NO vote in 2014 was comprised of only circa 34% of “Other” parties. The additional 20% came from that same pool of non-voters. That’s right, on a 90%+ turnout for a referendum, circa 30% were non-voters who neither vote for parties or participate in elections.

      Eh? A further example: Of the actual ‘politically engaged voting electorate’ – the core YES voters are greater than the core NO voters by around 10%…yup, really. The focus and targetting obsessed with party politics is an error in relation to an Independence referendum – it’s talking and arguing with the wrong people.
      If independence is to be achieved without a referendum, by the electoral process (a majority of the voting electorate) then the SNP is very important.
      Other than delivering a referendum, the SNP is less important and the most important element is the 30% of the non-voting (though enfranchised) people of Scotland, who only turned out during Indy1 and by 2-1 decided on the status-quo.

      My figures? A lot of crunching and re-analysis of tables, turning up a fatal error, I and many others have made about polling data, surveys, exit polls and elections. All the above is there in freely available published data – but this site always has you questioning your prior judgement (often abrasively directly) so I kept returning to the data and there it was hiding in plain sight.
      If you are rightly skeptical of any of the above, consider how it tallies with a circa 60%+ turnout for elections – whither the ‘missing metric” on a 90%+ referendum turnout?
      Take it or leave it.

    237. wull says:

      Well said, Brian Doonthetoon, at 7.32. I agree with you on all the points you raise and, in regard to your point 11, feel the same way as you do. I am sure many, indeed most other readers of this site will concur.

    238. Legerwood says:

      Ghillie says:
      6 March, 2019 at 5:33 pm
      Legerwood, fracking is not good anywhere, any time!

      A totally mad idea any where on this lovely Earth!””

      Never said it was a good idea. This ruling from the courts give people in England more ammunition to oppose fracking. The situation is quite different in Scotland thanks to the Scottish Government and the stance it took against fracking

    239. Robert Peffers says:

      @mountain shadow says: 6 March, 2019 at 12:43 pm:

      ” … The fines for breaking electoral rules are so paltry that come Indyref2 (If Nicola ever has the bottle to hold it)”

      Bloody hilarious, A brave commenter on an open forum thinks The First Minister of Scotland hasn’t got the bottle.

      That lady goes out and walks among the people on the streets. Now compare that with how Theresa or any other high profile Westminster political figure acts. Theresa arrives in a well armoured vehicle, is shepherded into wherever she is to hold her meeting flanked by armed guards, (and the meeting is by invite only), gets shepherded back out again and is driven off at speed in a convoy of security forces vehicles.

      Nicola has more bottle than you will ever have, mountain shadow.

      ” … we need to get smart and simply do whatever we like to get the end result we want.”

      No we do not if it involves doing it wrong. Just look at some of the media campaigns that have been waged against totally innocent SNP people and think what the media would do to someone caught out doing wrong.

      There is a name for people who infiltrate a group and attempt to get them to break the law – agents provocateur.

      Strange that Wings is seeing more and more of them just now – Mind you I’m encouraged by their numbers – it indicates the unionists are really, really worried now.

    240. Ken500 says:

      The English Parliament/representatives wanted Union with Scotland to tax Scotland to pay for the English Wars with France. People in Scotland were totally against it. There was unrest for years. Riots and Partitions from all over Scotland. It was one of the most unpopular actions that even hapoened in Scotland. War was threatened if Scotland did not agree, The Jacobite Rebellions followed, Brutally put down. The Highland Clearance.

      The Terms of the Treaty of Union were never honoured. Ever. The Highland Clearances. The Treaty was just used to take tax from Scotland to fund the rest of the UK. Leaving Scotland in poverty. The Enlightenment. Scotland was always supposed to have it’s own Domestic Laws. That never happened. It was a trade treaty. Scotland was supposed to be agreeing to keep it’s own identity and it’s own Domestic Laws. The UK Parliament kept imposing unpopular damaging Laws on Scotland. Totally breaking the terms of the Treaty. Dishonesty, dishonourably and illegally. Nothing changes.

      Scotland reps. 16 MP 45 Peers. UK Parliament/Treaty of Union. Totally over ruled.

    241. CameronB Brodie says:

      One thing I’ve noticed in all the Brexit analysis is there’s a distinct lack of a Scottish dimension, such as our desperate need for immigration. A bit like the invisibility of a Victorian wife or slave who lacked political agency, I imagine. It’s all about England, see, and returning to a bygone era of “paternalistic” state authority.

      It’s NOT the economy, stupid: Brexit as a story of personal values

      ….Britain’s choice to vote Leave, we are told, is a protest by those left behind by modernisation and globalisation. London versus the regions, poor versus rich. Nothing could be further from the truth. Brexit voters, like Trump supporters, are motivated by identity, not economics. Age, education, national identity and ethnicity are more important than income or occupation. But to get to the nub of the Leave-Remain divide, we need to go even deeper, to the level of attitudes and personality.

      Strikingly, the visible differences between groups are less important than invisible differences between individuals. These don’t pit one group against another, they slice through groups, communities and even families. Our brains deal better with groups than personality differences because we latch onto the visible stuff. It’s easy to imagine a young student or London professional voting Remain; or a working-class man with a northern accent backing Leave. I doubt that’s what the majority of Leaver’s imagined when they were voting to “take back control”.

      Open and Closed personalities are harder to conjure up: yet these invisible differences are the ones that count most – around two or three times as much as the group differences. A second problem is that many analyses are spatial. Don’t get me wrong: I love maps and differences between place are important, especially for first-past-the-post elections. However, some characteristics vary a lot over space and others don’t.

      https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/personal-values-brexit-vote/

      #DissolveTheUnion

    242. Robert Peffers says:

      @Breeks says: 6 March, 2019 at 1:42 pm:

      … “Theresa May has just lied again in Parliament when she claims the SNP does not have a mandate for independence.”

      When is it going to sink in? Of course the SNP has a mandate for independence and they always have had it.

      Their entire raison dêtre is to regain Scottish Independence. It is their whole reason for existing – everything else is secondary and anyone voting for them knows that to be true. Any vote for the SNP is a vote for independence.

    243. Ken500 says:

      @ Just looking at that exact Prof David M. Walker – Journal article, but could not link.

    244. Robert Louis says:

      Robin at 430pm,

      Oh dear. I guess no matter what I say would convince you otherwise. Perhaps you might like to take a wee look back to the morning of the 19th September 2014. Some of my comments, when I look back at them are a bit cringey, but it was a difficult morning for everybody, and I hadn’t slept. I was trying to stop folks from despairing. Have a look. Still want to call me a unionist troll??

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/us-now-or-never/

      Just because I am not happy with the SNP right now, does not make me a unionist. Or a troll.

      For example;

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/heads-you-lose-tails-you-lose/#more-16801

      Yip, that was me defending the SNP Scottish Government and Alex Salmond from hysterical unionist attacks in 2012.

      Oh, and I have been commenting on this site and on newsnetScotland before it, for a lot longer than you – whoever/whatever you are.

    245. Cubby says:

      Dr Doom strikes again with his usual Britnat crap.

      Dr Doom making a play to take over from Rock for repeating the same crap.

    246. Robert Peffers says:

      @Brian Powell says: 6 March, 2019 at 2:49 pm:

      ” … I mean breaches of the Acts or Treaties.”

      No, Brian, the acts, both of them, are not important. They are both Acts of Parliaments that immediately then put themselves into recess. In the case of the Kingdom of England permanent recess and in the case of the Kingdom of Scotland it was prorogued and not reconvened until the Holyrood parliament was reconvened by Winnie Ewing.

      The purpose of the individual Acts were to wind up the parliaments that passed them. It is the Treaty that is the legal agreement between the two kingdoms.

      That means if either Kingdom declares the treaty is over the agreement to unite is over and the United Kingdom Parliament immediately ends. Thing is the Old Scottish Parliament was only prorogued but the English Parliament was ended.

      Thus on Scotland declaring the union is over the Westminster Parliament of the United Kingdom ends and there has not been a legally elected Parliament of England since 30 April 1707. Westminster is not the legally elected parliament of the Kingdom of England.

    247. Capella says:

      bjsalba says:
      6 March, 2019 at 3:37 pm
      Comment on one of Nana’s links
      http://archive.is/qJlXb Donald Tusk claims anti-European forces meddled in Brexit vote
      This is a Guardian article and it describes Donald Tusk as “a former prime minister of Poland and vociferous critic of Vladimir Putin.”

      That seems to be pushing the US and UK Tory line as to who are the bad guys. I don’t buy it as It leaves out the Cambridge Analytica connections to the USA far right and their accomplices including if somewhat indirectly, Facebook.

      Coming back late to the thread – just want to say I agree with you. The far right destabilising of Europe is much more connected to the US alt-right.
      Add Middle East, South America, Asia and Far East.

      I read that Colombia has joined NATO. Columbia!
      https://www.reuters.com/article/us-colombia-nato/colombia-to-be-natos-first-latin-american-global-partner-idUSKCN1IR0E8

      We’ve been here before and know that this warmongering ends in tears for us plebs but mega bucks for the few. The Russian people know this too. Of course they will have spies and armed forces. They would be stupid not to. They saved Europe from the nazis at great national cost. The resurgence of nazism in Poland, Ukraine and Hungary should be a wake up call to all of us.

      But instead, Westminster sends spoilt brat Gavin Williamson to talk nonsense and tell Russia to “go away and shut up”.
      Pathetic.

    248. Hamish100 says:

      Whether you have been on this site for the first time tonight or over the past few years surely does not matter.

      Brexit is https://howmanydaystill.com/its/brexit-6 away.

      What options do we have other than fight for our independence.

      Lets be positive

    249. Ken500 says:

      IndyRef 25% -30% of (usual) non voters. Ie Turnout, usual 55% – 60% of Electorate. IndyRef turnout 85%?

      Lower (usual) turnout of Electorate for Holyrood Elections.

      GE – FPTP (different qualification for participation)

      Holyrood D’Hond’t (imposed by unionist Parties without a mandate) different qualification for participation. Lower participation ie turnout. 50% to 55%?

      Local Elections (usually) an even lower turnout, 40%-50%? STV imposed without a mandate. Leslie Evans – non elected.

      Rest of the UK. Elections all FPTP.

    250. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      I’ll just leave this here:

      “When you resort to attacking the messenger and not the message, you have lost the debate.”

      or to put it another way:

      “Play the ball not the man/woman.”

    251. Ken500 says:

      They want another war with Russia. The warmongering never stops. Trump would not entertain it. Or they would have been at it already. It would have been going on now. More carnage. Johnston was trying to insight the US. Trump refused. Still getting stick for it from some quarters. Wanting endless world strife. They don’t know what to do next to cause more trouble.

      Williamson is a total embassassment in league with Johnston. The criminal.

    252. Dr Jim says:

      Lawyers can batter back and forth all their arguments and all the history of their arguments and interpret them as they see fit from their side of a particular argument to gain victory for their premise

      From my simplistic point of view if you recognise Scotland is a country then it follows you must recognise the people of a country have choices not only legal but social and humanitarian, the modern world recognises that even if the historic world at times did not

      The Act of Union was organised and instructed by dead Monarchs at a time when being powerful outweighed democracy
      The populace of Scotland were neither consulted nor informed of any such decisions taking place at that time and probably the same applied to England so I kinda don’t believe that depth of argument in law will ever be necessary and that the thrust of any argument should be made on the moral imperative of a nation country or peoples right to govern themselves as laid down in the UN charters

      If England under its then Monarchy had the legal right to *subsume* Scotland in my view they would have changed the name by their interpretation of the law and called Scotland something else, like England, but they didn’t so we’re still Scottish and they’re still English so they even by default or mistake recognise who we are, even if they don’t like it

      The legal arguments that Westminster may decide to put up may be long but I don’t believe in todays modern legal interpretations they have a leg to stand on or some of the Baltic states would still not be Independent due to archaic draconian claims and laws

      Some of these countries are now EU members, do we think in any scenario these countries will support England’s claims to ownership of Scotland after what they’ve been through to gain their own freedoms

      I doubt it, everybody sing *Can I get a witness*

    253. CameronB Brodie says:

      OK, time to get serious. I for one do not wish to die in an English dictatorship, a.k.a. Brexitania. Force-ably amending our European citizenship is the first step in stripping Scotland’s people of our legal personality and rights, what future will generations of our ancestors face as second class Brexitanians?

      Brexit, psychotherapy and moral psychology:
      individualism versus the common good

      So, following Brexit in June 2016, should we rename our journal The European and Un-United United Kingdom Journal for Psychotherapy and Counselling? And, what role if any should psychotherapists have in influencing clients’ politics?

      There are many possible theories we might draw on in exploring conscious and unconscious forces in the UK voting for Brexit. We might, for example, look to our theories in attempting to explain apparent instinctual reactions about immigration and giving away money ‘without getting anything in return’. However, I would like to focus on the extent to which psychological therapists’ default position is the promotion of individualism at the expense of the common good (and, it might be argued, the individual).

      Also how together with the rise of the populist likes of Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Marine Le Pen and other politicians across Europe who some would see as encouraging racism, moral psychology is also, perhaps helpfully, in the ascendency. This notion of how we consider right from wrong, regardless of whether we see it as ‘universal’ or culturally influenced’, is not usually directly a subject for psychotherapy training. So is there perhaps too much of a tendency to attempt to free our clients from the constraints of others and not enough attention paid to how our clients constrain and detrimentally affect others’ lives?

      https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/13642537.2016.1215812

    254. Capella says:

      Royal navy tracking Russian frigate in international waters. Shock.

      Royal Navy Commander Richard Hewitt said: “We will continue to work with our allies to shadow Russian ships passing through international waters close to our shores, to ensure the Russian navy follows the correct protocol on its journey.”

      I think he will find that the Russian Navy will follow the correct protocols to the letter.

      This is in the BBC Scotland section of the website because, as we know, the broad shoulders of the UK… etc etc
      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-47469463

    255. Essexexile says:

      @Grubby (well, if making up insulting names for fellow Wingers is your thing, then you had that coming),
      Please, just take a moment to absorb the detail of my posts without just reacting in the same predictable manner EVERY single time. You are doing more harm to the indy movement EVERY time you post.
      Whether you like it or not, I am the mainstream of the Yes movement. You are the extreme fringe which is necessarily tolerated, for now.
      I will be courted by the power brokers in an independent Scotland towards defining the Country’s future. You will be dropped as an embarrassment.
      That’s not meant as a personal attack at all. It’s just a fact, I’m afraid. You really need to wake up to the damage your ilk are doing.

    256. Capella says:

      Complete ignoral everyone. Do not respond to the provocation. It’s the only answer.

    257. geeo says:

      Essexexile @10.44pm

      Comedy Gold !!

      You are always good for a laugh. At you, mind !!

    258. cynicalHighlander says:

      Somebody mentioned a poll a few day/s ago results of which will be released at an opportune moment no doubt. 23 days to brexit before hell is let loose.

    259. Ken500 says:

      Prof David M. Walker’s relevant argument is ‘it was not an Act’ . It was not possible for one country to impose the (an) Act on another ie Imposed by one Gov. without authority It was intended to a Treaty (of Union) between two Gov./country. Under International Law. A Treaty of Union. Ratified by the representative (separately) by terms (supposed) to be agree between the separate representatives. Then passed at different times (separately) by both Parliament.

      It was totally never, ever honoured. Any of the terms. In any way shape or form. which totally makes it irrelevant. With no legality under International Law.

    260. Capella says:

      @ Ken500 – not to mention Scottish Contract Law. We could sue for breach of contract and losses incurred.

    261. Essexexile says:

      geeo @10.57
      Well, as ever your little clique will move to defend itself whenever challenged.
      You are not elected, you do not have any power, you don’t represent the vast majority of the Yes movement.
      But, you have a big gob and an inflated opinion of yourselves which is a huge turn off for undecideds.
      Stop doing what you do and there will be many more Jenny Constables.

    262. Robert Peffers says:

      @Clootie says: 6 March, 2019 at 3:27 pm:

      ” … I think the unionists interpret the Act of Union as giving the “New Parliament” authority over the United countries.i.e. Scotland and England surrendered their authority to that “New Parliament”./ Union.”

      Nah! Clootie, it is not about countries – the clue is in the name, “United Kingdom”, and only two kingdoms signed the treaty. What’s more, in order to be able to legally sign an international treaty both parties must have been equally sovereign.

      ” … Since the Parliament holds that power they are convinced one country cannot leave without Westminster approval.(The UK parliament)”

      Thing is that on 1 May 1707 the parliament that was convened was a spanking new parliament called, “The United Kingdom of Great Britain Parliament”, it was not a continuation of the parliament of the Kingdom of England. The closest it got to being so was it was convened in the former Parliament of England building.

      The claim, as made on TV by David Mundell who was quoting a claim from a paper commissioned by the Westminster Parliament was, “The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as the United Kingdom.”, is arrant nonsense. The treaty of Union says no such thing.

      ” … I may not agree but I see it being a challenge.”

      There is no challenge here are no doubts. It is crystal clear.
      There are only two kingdoms with signatures on the Treaty. Both were equally sovereign kingdoms. The Treaty of Union is undoubtedly a bipartite treaty between two equally sovereign kingdoms. Even if it was true, which it is not, that the treaty extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland it would have equally extinguished the Kingdom of England when it created the United Kingdom. It most certainly did not change the name of the Kingdom of England to be the United Kingdom.

      If you have the slightest doubts consider this – The Treaty of Union states that the two legal systems of the two kingdoms must remain forever independent of each other and they have remained so to this day. Now the Law of the Kingdom of England holds that the Monarch of the Kingdom of England is legally sovereign but had to legally delegate their royal powers to the Parliament of England. (see the English Glorious Revolution of 1688). This made ONLY the kingdom of England into a Constitutional Monarchy. But The Kingdom of Scotland was legally NOT a constitutional monarchy. In 1320 the Scottish Kingdom was recognised by the then international authority as having the people, not the monarch, as legally sovereign. The Monarch was declared the Defender of the people’s sovereignty and was known not as King of Scotland but King of Scots.

      Furthermore the Declaration of Arbroath not only declared the people were legally sovereign but that the people could drive out any monarch they judged to not be doing the job of monarch as the people thought correctly. That is, to this day the law of Scotland and our monarchs are titled Queen/king of Scots.

      Not so long ago the Scottish Law Lords took that claim of right to the Westminster Supreme Court and surprise! Surprise! the English legal Lords did not challenge it. It has since been dealt with in the ECJ and they ruled in favour of the Scots.

      The Scottish Claim of Right is rooted in the Declaration of Arbroath and I refer Wingers to this Holyrood report :-

      https://www.theyworkforyou.com/sp/?id=2012-01-26.38.0

      It may explain to some who doubt things often claimed here on Wings that seem not to be well known to many Wingers. Note that the person behind this Holyrood thingy was none other than Nicola Sturgeon – a trained lawyer. It may explain to some why the lady does nothing without a mandate from the people of Scotland.

      She quite obviously believes in the legal rights of the sovereign people of Scotland. That belief is that the people’s legal sovereignty is lent to their elected representatives and they, the elected, are the servants and the people are sovereign and the masters.

      However, my main point is that the law is on our side and it has been tested in the Scottish High Court, the English Supreme Court, the ECJ and I believe but not sure, the ICJ.

    263. Ken500 says:

      Sue. Scotland has lost £Billions because of the illegal ‘Union’. It has cost Scotland £Trns. Totally unaccountable. Totally undemocratic. That is why it was imposed, forced on Scotland. To impose and get taxes from Scotland to fund the rest of the UK and pay for illegal wars. Trident illegally dumped on Scotland etc, etc.

      Jacobite Uprising, the Enlightenment, the Clearances. The mass migration caused by Westminster undemocratic unequal policies. Secrecy, illegal lies. Breaking International Law repeatedly. Kept secret under the Official Secrets Act. Illegal wars. Iraq, Dunblane, Lockerbie kept secret for 100 years. The list and legacy goes on and one and one. Endless.

    264. skydiver says:

      Looks like the EU have sent Teresa’s little helpers home with their tail between their legs, again.

      Entering some strange times because it is almost certain now that she will lose the Meaningful Vote next Tuesday.

      Then what?

      Who knows.

      Maybe shirt technical extension to sort out tariffs etc…

    265. Lenny Hartley says:

      Cynicalhighlander, you better get on to the rev then , its him that did the poll 🙂

    266. geeo says:

      Silverdarling@6.22pm

      “We see you” means ‘We see what you are up to’ and are not my words.

      After 6 years of Roberts educational prose and occassional barbs, you have decided NOW that “some of us” have had enough” huh ?

      Who is “some of us” and are you the ‘spokesperson’ for ‘that group’?

      Looks like yer slip is showing.

      Lay off the bullying, because bullying and inciting others to join in, IS ‘menacing’ and not acceptable anywhere.

      Will you pledge right now, to stop bullying Robert Peffers, Yes or No ?

    267. cynicalHighlander says:

      Lenny Hartley

      Which is why I put “opportune moment” in that coment.

    268. Fireproofjim says:

      Debate Night on the new BBC Scotland channel has again been balanced and fair, with an audience which appears to be mostly very sympathetic to independence.
      Stephen Jardine is an excellent host.

    269. geeo says:

      More Comedy Gold from essex, just think, after a Yes vote, you will be an international comedy star…!!

    270. William Wallace says:

      Sorry folks that last comment was meant for off-topic. I was wondering why I couldn’t see it on there when I refreshed the page about a dozen times. I’m seriously not ageing well at all. 🙂

    271. cynicalHighlander says:

      William Wallace

      You do have a statue though! 🙂

    272. William Wallace says:

      @ cynical

      Aye and even that’s functioning at a higher level than I am the now. 🙂 Probably more mobile as well at the current time.

    273. Cubby says:

      Geeo@11.32pm

      Just had a great evening watching Manu win a tremendous match. To then be followed by reading Dr Dooms comments made me laugh out loud. What a night. LOL.

    274. cynicalHighlander says:

      William Wallace

      Get better soon as Scotland needs all those like minded souls, all the best.

    275. Dr Jim says:

      The new debate show is indeed a cut above the English version and Stephen Jardine is indeed a fair and balanced host
      but I’ll never watch another one of these types of programmes ever again in my life because I don’t believe that anyone in the audience who takes part in them is prepared to alter their view one iota, nor do I believe the folks at home are open minded to it either, because the premise of these programmes always ends up with the same argument from Unionists inasmuch as we must all find a way to agree the UKs position on all things and that no matter whatever happens Scotland should have no part in that except to agree that we’re not in charge and never will be so forget all the Independence stuff and let’s just get on with what England decides it’s going to do to us

      Our role is to find a way to live with it just because

      If I hear the word mitigate one more time or have to look at Anas Sarwars coniving lying face again as he attempts to grovel his way through a situation when he knows everybody knows he and his party are the biggest liars on the planet

      Or pathetic schoolmarm Liz Smith trying her twisting lying best to convince people she respects any decision they would ever make, especially viewers in Scotland

      Or some lady who voted something sometime who used to be something in the EU but doesn’t like them now and Brexit’s good

      Or the nice American lady who barely knows what day it is because she’s never been skint in her entire life but cares deeply about something to do with womens issues that she finds amost impossible to describe

      Then we have the lovely Kate Forbes who unfortunately suffers from being quite young and attractive so that’s her written off no matter how intelligent or clever she is

      There it is, Scotland’s representative panel and audience of folk who have already made their minds up before they ever entered the building

      What the F..k’s the point

      Yeah I know I’m in a mood….still though!

    276. CameronB Brodie says:

      OK, time to go the full Bunna. A bit of Popular Psychology, Post-colonial Theory and related ‘psycho-babble’ re. Britain’s England’s post-colonial malaise.

      What we’re reading now: Ruling Minds: Psychology in the British Empire by Erik Linstrum

      As I argue in my book, Ruling Minds: Psychology in the British Empire, techniques for managing minds did indeed go global — but the results they yielded fell far short of British imperialists’ most ambitious blueprints. It is important to ask why a field of expertise that gave rise to critical and subversive questions about empire nonetheless continually inspired so much enthusiasm from imperial rulers.

      Drawing on archives in five continents, I trace how ideas about the mind operated in contexts far removed from the laboratories and consulting rooms where they originated. Like other technologies which appeared to move seamlessly across borders, the tools of psychology made the imperial ambition of global governance seem possible, promising to generate useful knowledge about workers, students, soldiers, rebels, and other colonized groups.

      But the same techniques also challenged the hierarchies underlying British rule and revealed the frailty of British blueprints for social change overseas. Tracing the history of exchanges between intellectuals and officials makes clear that the combination of science and empire — what Edward Said termed a “logical alliance” — was a tenuous collaboration marked by mistrust and misunderstanding instead.

      http://www.bbk.ac.uk/hiddenpersuaders/blog/reading-now-ruling-minds-psychology-british-empire-erik-linstrum/

      A critical psychology of the postcolonial
      eprints.lse.ac.uk/950/1/Criticalpsychology.pdf

      Can Brexit be explained by the theory of Collective Narcissism?
      https://blogs.canterbury.ac.uk/psychology/can-brexit-be-explained-by-the-theory-of-collective-narcissism/

    277. William Wallace says:

      @ Cynical

      Thank you. I’m working on it. I’ve got to go back for another CT scan as there is a small lump poking through around one of the surgical entry sites (possible incisional hernia). It seems to go down when laying down so I’m hopeful that it won’t require further surgery (same thing happened to my nephew but, his settled and required no further treatment).

      The surgeon told me it was a less than 5% risk but, when reading up on it, I found that it is a far more common risk (30%). I will find out by the end of the week (fingers crossed).

    278. Old Pete says:

      Debate night was fair and balanced again.

    279. Essexexile says:

      Or….keep doing what you do, and then wonder why the polls haven’t shown any meaningful shift despite EVERY single star being aligned.
      It’s a cop out to continuously blame the MSM for holding back indy when the damage is being done from within.
      We must present ourselves as an inclusive, welcoming and forgiving movement or we will be forever damned.

    280. cynicalHighlander says:

      William Wallace

      I can only repeat all the best, good luck.

      No need to respond unless you feel it helps.

    281. robertknight says:

      Robert Peffers writes…

      “Thing is that on 1 May 1707 the parliament that was convened was a spanking new parliament called, “The United Kingdom of Great Britain Parliament”, ”

      No, it wasn’t…

      In 1707 Westminster was styled the Parliament of Great Britain. It was the legislature of the united (note lower case) Kingdom of Great Britain.

      Westminster was only referred to as the Parliament of the United Kingdom from 1801, when it became the legislature for the (note upper case) United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.

      You, of all people, should know this.

    282. Cubby says:

      I always thought I was a weegie but now a poster thinks I am an ilk. I have been to Ilkeston in the Midlands. But how does Dr Doom know this?

    283. cynicalHighlander says:

      Essexexile

      From where?

    284. sandy says:

      Dr Jim on the debate panel next week?

      Don’t worry. folks, he has all the answers.

    285. William Wallace says:

      @ Cynical

      I’m just making idle chatter really as I can’t sleep and I thought it might break up the vitriolic nature of the MT as it currently stands. It’s more than a little disheartening to see so much falling oot. It seems to be happening a lot on my twitter feed too between good people.

      Your kind wishes are very welcome but, I’m not feeling sorry for myself or seeking sympathy ;). I just want to get back to normal really and get whatever else that needs doing – done. I don’t like being pinned down like this one bit and am eager to be cutting aboot again with a full health bar. Especially given that marching season is nearly upon us.

    286. Cubby says:

      “……or we will be forever damned” Hilarious stuff from Dr Doom.

      He has obviously been watching too many Dads army repeats – we’re doomed I tell you doomed. Dads Army must be a mandatory watch for Britnats. They won the war, did the Essex Britnats, you know.

    287. cynicalHighlander says:

      William Wallace

      It’s called frustration.

    288. Petra says:

      There’s no doubt that Debate Night, presented well by Stephen Jardine, is a cut above Question Time in relation to the audience and panel member selection. None of this four to one that prevails on QT. And for folks who watched it wasn’t it great to hear the audience react strongly to Liz Smith, at the beginning of the programme, put her foot right in it when she said that the country had voted for Brexit. Wee Freudian slip! You could see that from then on she realised that she would have to watch her step. Good reaction too from the audience member who said that England should leave the UK if it wants to Brexit. Lots of slamming of Westminster and Big T too throughout the programme (Smith’s face like fizz). Can’t wait now to see people like Dirty Money Davidson (unable to escape questioning) and Joanna Cherry et al getting an invite.

      ………………………..

      Professor John Robertson versus the BBC.

      ‘Reporting Scotland and Coverage of Child Health Report, Complaint.’

      https://thoughtcontrolscotland.com/2019/03/06/reporting-scotland-and-coverage-of-child-health-report-complaint/

      ……………………..

      ‘10% of the population yet 13.2% of the paediatricians: why the health of Scotland’s children is NOT being put at risk by staff shortages.’

      https://thoughtcontrolscotland.com/2019/03/06/10-of-the-population-yet-13-2-of-the-paediatricians-why-the-health-of-scotlands-children-is-not-being-put-at-risk-by-staff-shortages/

    289. William Wallace says:

      @ Cynical

      For the most part yes.

      It’s understandable but, we should be wary of turning inward and fighting amongst ourselves. It’s been our Achilles heel historically speaking. Eyes on the prize. We can do all our falling oot later when we are building an independent Scotland.

    290. cynicalHighlander says:

      NEW POLL
      Holyrood voting intentions (region):
      SNP 36% (nc)
      Con 26% (-1)
      Lab 19% (-4)
      LD 9% (+2)
      Grn 6% (nc)
      UKIP 3% (+2)

      Panelbase (1002 Scottish voters, 2-6 March 2019) Chgs from June 2018

    291. William Wallace says:

      Holyrood voting intentions (constituency):

      SNP 41% (nc)
      Con 27% (nc)
      Lab 19% (-3)
      LD 8% (+2)
      Grn 3% (+1)
      UKIP 2% (+1)

      Panelbase (1002 Scottish voters, 2-6 March 2019)

      Chgs from June 2018

    292. So, believe it or not- headline news on the BBC world service is that T may is expecting to lose the vote on her deal next week and Downing Street is making plans for that possible outcome. The plans include intending to put her deal to the House again after a couple of days!!!

      Unbelievable that a Prime Minister would knowingly put the entire UK, the finances and livelihoods of a lot of Europe at such dire risk with wider implications for the rest of the world economy.

      Reckless doesn’t even begin to describe what she is doing.

    293. Dr Jim says:

      The 62% of people in Scotland who voted against Brexit should be taking a good hard look at themselves right now and understanding what’s happening, the Westminster government keep telling you every single day Scotland doesn’t count and won’t ever count no matter what you vote, they don’t care

      So will you not just take the bull by the horns and stop waiting for Westminster to change, they won’t, so vote for Independence and your vote will count in the country you live in, England doesn’t want your opinion or care a jot about what you think, stop waiting for them to like you, they don’t

    294. CameronB Brodie says:

      Dr Jim
      82% of Britain’s black and Asian minorities voted to Remain. That, the blind eye HMG views international human rights law and the deaf ear Westminster turns to Scotland, tells us all we need to know about the cultural pedigree of contemporary British nationalism, articulated through the full English Brexit.

      P.S. How does a racists priorities between hating different Others?

      P.P.S. How’s that silly dog-food salesman getting on with his graphs and stuff? 😉

    295. Dorothy Devine says:

      well I was going to watch the debate last night as so many praised it on here but as soon as I saw the Scottish representative of labour I remembered the ‘Top Secret” folder of the pre indy debate and switched off .

      Obviously I missed the even handed Mr Jardine who will now be getting more pelters from some obnoxious nobody for being an SNP/Yes sympathiser – I hope he has the strength and the backing to continue but I suspect the unionists will have him redeployed as they did with Isobel Fraser or the chap called David somebody, once on Reporting Scotland who was wheeched off overnight never to be seen again.

      I have no trust in BBBC Scotland and like the soul to the body , it will never return – somebody tell Donalda that I am far from alone!

    296. gus1940 says:

      Re last night’s Debate Night – are BBC Scotland up to their old QT editing tricks?

      An English woman in the audience made a lengthy comment on English people fleeing north to Scotland and supporting Indy.

      Given that there was fair sprinkling of obvious Indy supporters in the audience I would have expected some applause when she finished her comment.

      However, as soon as she finished there was an immediate cut without any audience reaction to the chair who made no response to her comment.

      Did anybody else noticed this or am I just being unduly suspicious of the BBC?

    297. Nana says:

      Putting the morning links here as I don’t want to spoil the latest thread

      https://www.gov.scot/news/mental-health-care-for-new-mums/

      Baby Grace, you’ve got the cutest little
      https://twitter.com/BBCScotlandNews/status/1103293122744930305

      Dozens of new jobs as ex-BiFab yard lands windfarm deal
      http://archive.is/QmtvN

      Time for a wee thread. 1/
      https://twitter.com/thecommongreen/status/1103324131016273925

    298. Nana says:

      Visions for a Scottish local democracy
      https://yrs.scot/craig-dalzell

      http://www.businessforscotland.com/pupils-climate-change-strikes-offer-a-beacon-of-hope-for-politics-and-sustainability/

      https://inews.co.uk/news/scotland/scottish-labour-sinks-into-red-donations-dry-up/

      Tommy Sheppard, MP for Edinburgh East, invites you to a Public Meeting – Scotland and the Brexit Crisis.
      What does Brexit mean? How do we stop it? What if we can’t?
      Tommy will be joined by Dr Kirsty Hughes, Director, Scottish Centre on European Relations, and Kirsty Haigh, Scotland Organiser for Another Europe is Possible, to discuss the current situation and its implications.
      https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/scotland-and-the-brexit-crisis-tickets-56918835770

    299. Nana says:

      https://www.stirlingsnp.com/high-noon-beckons-again/

      Scotland and Wales say “no” to no deal and May’s brexit plan. Both parliaments together at the same time.
      Scotland holds talks with Nordic nations over shared defence alliance, post Indy and brexit.
      https://www.facebook.com/indycargordonross/videos/308654493180159/

      Liam Fox has just admitted in a committee hearing that the Cabinet have signed off on the UK’s post-Brexit schedule of tariffs. So there’s absolutely no doubt they exist. The Government’s just choosing not to publish them, for fear they will affect next week’s votes.
      https://twitter.com/uk_domain_names/status/1103249617741848576

      Secrecy, inadequacy & gibberish: The Brexit betrayal of the new tariff rates
      http://archive.is/2aZKe

    300. Nana says:

      https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/transport/road-transport/opinion/road-haulage-association/102331/through-no-fault-its-own

      In this footage, wealth manager Mariana Schroeder tells an undercover Times reporter how wealthy Britons who have “tax problems” because of high income can legally set up their residency abroad even if they “don’t really live there
      https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1103348325271699457

      https://www.rt.com/uk/448393-chris-williamson-integrity-initiative-rt/

      England’s NHS privatisation gathering pace
      http://archive.is/qAKwh

    301. Nana says:

      Expert panels to advise on Irish backstop alternatives in Brexit talks
      http://archive.is/6KpP0

      May is a dictator
      “She [Theresa May] hasn’t been listening to what’s going on and it’s not good enough” – Lord Stevens, former Commissioner of the Met Police.
      https://twitter.com/Rachael_Swindon/status/1103366020553691136

      Meanwhile in London, ministers begin to panic and predict “a party meltdown nationwide” if PM’s deal falls next week. Brexiteer minister: “If we lose on Tuesday, absolutely everything is going to be shit”.
      https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1103420437776744450

      https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/killings-by-british-soldiers-during-troubles-were-not-crimes-karen-bradley-1.3816483

    302. Robert Peffers says:

      robertknight says:7 March, 2019 at 12:18 am:

      ” … Robert Peffers writes…
      “Thing is that on 1 May 1707 the parliament that was convened was a spanking new parliament called, “The United Kingdom of Great Britain Parliament”, ”
      No, it wasn’t…”

      Dammit! Where did they nit go? Wee buggers are illusive.

      BTW: I didn’t say that was it’s title – I said that was what it was called. Like I get called Auld Bob but my title is Mr Peffers.

      The point being it was not the parliament of the continued kingdom of England nor was it the kingdom of Scotland parliament it was the parliament of the union.

    303. Ghillie says:

      Legerwood @ 9.18 pm (6th March) re your comment @ 5.29 pm (6th March)

      Sorry Legerwood! I was not disagreeing with you.

      That court ruling is indeed good news for England and will hopefully go some way to protecting the folk of England from the ravages of fracking.

      Totally agree that ‘the situation is quite different in Scotland thanks to the Scottish Government and the stance it took against fracking’. 🙂



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