What’s going on
The weekend just past saw a convulsion as big as any we can ever recall witnessing on Yes social media, triggered by a series of tweets by Nicola Sturgeon which caused an extraordinary negative reaction out of all proportion to their ostensible content.
The reason was that the First Minister – who had remained silent about countless episodes of hideous misogynistic abuse aimed from her own side at MPs and MSPs like Joan McAlpine and Joanna Cherry – had chosen to suddenly leap into action in defence of the toxically divisive horror that is Glasgow councillor Rhiannon Spear after Spear had been widely criticised for making blatantly false claims in a video promoting her attempt to be selected as the candidate for Argyll & Bute.
(Sturgeon had no such public condemnation for the torrents of abuse the SNP Twitler Youth then unleased on Kirsten Thornton, the female SNP activist and Generation Yes founder who’d pointed out Spear’s untruths.)
The move sent the party’s woke and sane factions into a frenzy of bloodletting which in itself will have little if any impact on the wider electorate, but nonetheless threw into sharp relief the life-and-death battle currently going on for the SNP’s soul.
And since that’s related to what we’ve been writing about on Wings for the bulk of this year, it seemed worthwhile to get some things down on the record once and for all.
Because 2020 has been the least fun year in the almost-decade-long history of this site. It feels like we’ve spent most of it criticising the party that leads the independence movement, from the pitiful let-down of Brexit day to the shameful failed stitch-up of Alex Salmond, through countless other idiocies and failures and terrifyingly bad ideas, right up to the current incredibly dodgy shenanigans around the NEC.
But all of that lies squarely at the door of the SNP leadership. Through either shocking incompetence or malicious intent (or both) the party which was once a byword for discipline and common purpose has been allowed to descend into an appalling fractious mess of bitter infighting, to the point where its own MPs are openly calling for the suspension of the CEO (who also happens to be the husband of the leader).
Unlike most pro-indy sites, Wings hasn’t shied away from highlighting these issues. That’s because we’ve never been an SNP website, we’re an independence website, and that means fighting anyone who’s an obstacle to or an enemy of independence, whatever side they purport to be on. And the cold harsh truth is that right now that category includes a substantial chunk of the SNP.
It would be naive to expect a lot of thanks for such scrutiny, and sure enough it’s brought a tsunami of abuse down on our heads, of which these – from just one person in the last few days alone – are a pretty mild example.
The accusations of being secret Unionists, MI5 plants and so on are plentiful, although awkwardly if you’re suggesting Wings is now a British secret service operation working to undermine independence then you have to say the same thing about Alex Salmond, Craig Murray, Robin McAlpine, Joanna Cherry, Kenny MacAskill, Angus MacNeil, Chris McEleny, Joan McAlpine, George Kerevan, Iain Lawson and too many others to list.
(To say nothing of the 25% of sitting SNP MSPs who are standing down at next year’s election even though we’re apparently on the very brink of achieving the thing most of them have worked for their whole adult lives and their decades of experience would surely be vital in any campaign.)
Meanwhile Murray “The Vow” Foote works for the SNP. Hmm.
(Wishart is only the most brazen of the party’s elected representatives when it comes to openly expressing his utter contempt for the rank-and-file. He’s very far from alone.)
But hey ho. Years of poisonous hatred and abuse from Unionists never stopped us and nor will it do so when it comes from nicely-featherbedded Westminster MPs or blind party loyalists, because independence is far too important a cause to give up on when things get difficult or uncomfortable.
Unfortunately, “difficult and uncomfortable” is how things are going to be staying in the immediate future, because the clear, inescapable conclusion of all our analysis – and whether you like it or not, you know what our track record of analysis is like – is that the only hope of securing independence in the next decade is to get rid of the current leadership of the SNP and all their acolytes.
It’s not the first time you’ve heard us say that. But it perhaps does need to be starkly laid out that as far as Wings Over Scotland is concerned, expelling them should be by far the most pressing goal of the Yes movement at this critical point in history.
Be under no illusion – everything we’ve all fought for since 2007 is at stake right here and now, and this time it’s not the Unionists or the media who are the problem.
If Nicola Sturgeon and Peter Murrell are allowed to lead the SNP into the election – if that election actually happens at all – then our view is that there will be absolutely no prospect of another referendum in the next term of the Scottish Parliament, which immediately boots even the theoretical possibility down the road to 2027, by which time there’ll probably be effectively no Holyrood left.
That’s because the current leadership has no plan whatsoever to achieve it other than meekly asking the UK government for something it’s rejected three times already, continues to flatly reject at every opportunity, and which it has a clear and proper electoral mandate – and a 500+ Parliamentary majority – to reject.
All an SNP majority under this leadership will achieve is five more wretched years of indignant, hollow posturing, like all the times Ian Blackford stood up in the Commons and proclaimed that Scotland would not be dragged out of the EU against its will, right up to the day when Scotland was dragged out of the EU against its will and all the SNP had to offer by way of a response was “Right, we’re going to jolly well ask for a Section 30 again, in a year and a half’s time, if we win the election”.
We are told with monotonous regularity that attacking the SNP at this point is stupid, because they are the only party that can secure independence and any alternative would take many years to build. The latter part of that is unquestionably true. This site does not dispute that the SNP is the only current plausible vehicle to independence.
But if you’re in a vehicle with a burst tyre and smoke pouring out of the engine whose driver is going the wrong way and refuses to listen, you don’t have to smash up the car and start walking, and nor do you just have to shrug and go “Well, this is the only car we’ve got so I guess we’re just stuck”. You change the driver, you change the tyre, you fix the engine and you get back in and turn it round, even if that takes some hard work and you’d rather not be doing it because it’s cold and raining.
It’s at this point that the other tedious mantra of the loyal Sturgeonettes usually raises its head. “But what would YOU do, then, clever-clogs?”, cry people who haven’t been listening for the past three years every time we’ve patiently explained it.
So one more time for the slow kids at the back, here it is. (Note that this plan excludes things which should have been done but are no longer possible, such as exploiting the SNP’s rare arithmetical leverage at Westminster from June 2017 to December 2019.)
(1) The first, most absolutely basic necessity is to finally definitively establish whether Holyrood in fact already possesses the legal power to hold an independence referendum, something this site has been explicitly calling for for years and which would and should have been concluded long before now.
This is still very much an unresolved matter in law, and the Scottish Government should have been pursuing it since the day after the EU referendum in 2016. Not only has it NOT done so, in a massive dereliction of duty, but it has attacked and actively obstructed the efforts of others to do so.
The attempts by Martin Keatings to bring the case to court have sucked hundreds of thousands of pounds from grassroots Yes supporters’ pockets that could and should quite properly have been spent by the Scottish Government in legitimate pursuit of its clear manifesto mandate from the 2016 election, backed not once but twice by votes of the Scottish Parliament.
(And would have been peanuts in governmental-expenditure terms.)
Instead it has wasted a pile of money on hiring lawyers to oppose Keatings for several months before shambolically withdrawing from the case, exactly as it did in the judicial inquiry over the Alex Salmond allegations, having first pointlessly blown well over half a million pounds on it. (And in reality twice that.)
A newly-led SNP should offer to take over this case from Keatings and devote all necessary resources to it.
(2) There are three possible outcomes of such a case. Firstly, we could win and hold a referendum any time and as often as we liked. Secondly, we could win and the UK government could immediately cheat by amending the Scotland Act to overturn the court’s decision, rather like it did with the Brexit continuity bill. And thirdly, of course, we could lose.
Not one of those outcomes leaves us any worse off than we are now, so there’s nothing to fear. The first would be revolutionary but the third, and especially the second, while legally useless would be politically powerful in demonstrating that Scotland was effectively being held prisoner in clear contravention of Article 1 of the UN Charter and entitled to take other steps to secure its lawful rights.
(3) The nature of those other steps would have to be determined at the time and dependent on the prevailing circumstances, but could include the dissolution of Holyrood (theoretically prohibited but de facto possible in the event of a pro-indy majority existing) and the immediate conducting of a plebiscitary election, and/or the route outlined in compellingly-argued detail by Craig Murray in January.
Everyone would prefer a nice consensual road to independence, but in the face of complete intransigence from the UK government the only options are to fight by all peaceful democratic means possible or to just meekly give up forever.
For as long as the SNP backs down from that fight, abrogates its duty and insists that a referendum can only happen with Westminster’s approval, there is no downside for the UK government in simply refusing indefinitely. And the current SNP leadership has made it abundantly plain time and time again that it will only act with Westminster’s permission, knowing with absolute certainty that it will be withheld.
Having finally grudgingly allowed at least a debate on a Plan B at next month’s party pseudo-conference, it’ll be extremely interesting to see what position the leadership takes on it, whether it passes, and what happens if it does. We will be amazed if they back the motion – athough we can think of no possible justification for them not to – and therefore astonished if it passed. The signals from the party canaries so far have been very clear about which way they’ll go.
If it doesn’t, every last sliver of doubt will have been removed and it will be unarguable that the current leadership has no meaningful intention of delivering independence. This site lost all that doubt some time ago, but perhaps this is one of those very rare occasions when we’ll have been wrong about something.
Unless it is, we’re afraid that if you haven’t been enjoying the last few weeks and months, it’s not going to get better any time soon. Wings Over Scotland fought for independence when it was easy and fun to do so, and we’ll keep doing it when it’s ugly and grim, until such times as there’s no hope left.
We don’t think that will be the outcome. It’s our belief that the leadership cannot and will not survive until next May, and every day they cling desperately on to power and money just damages the Yes movement a little bit more. It’s also our belief that they know that. We will fight with every fibre of our being to stop them, whatever it costs. Scotland deserves better.
.
SOMETHING IS DEFINITELY HIDDEN FROM SIGHT WITH NICOLA STURGEON.
This is all wrong.
Pete Wishart needs a rocket up his arse. If all it takes to decide a viewpoint is how contrary you can be then you lack the critical thinking to understand the issues.
Chapeau bonnie lad???
Well said old boy, it is a pity that it has come to this.
Two options are good people join/ rejoin the party or a new party is started.
I reluctantly resigned from the SNP deciding that I was not giving such types more of my money.
I know starting a new party will take time, effort and money but it may be the only way forward.
Should we just all join/ rejoin the SNP and put serious pressure on the branches is there a sufficient number of good people to do this?
It may take a word from the mouth of Mr Salmond to push things in a particular direction.
Serious question –
Who should be hoofed first, Nicola or her man?
Or should they go down together?
Very well written. I agree 100% and more if possible. Like everyone else I was horrified when I saw that. I couldn’t quite believe she would have been so brazen as to come out batting for Spear as she did, not after everything she had allowed before. As you say as long as she behaves like this and encourages her MPs or Msps to behave as Stuart McDonald (and he’s the good one normally) did to Ruth Wishart the more damage will be done to independence. I had hoped she’d keep doing the covid stuff, which has undoubtedly help keep her profile high and has gone some way to get unionists to see her positively, and leave other stuff to get on as they’ve been doing then she could be an asset even for independence even perhaps against her will. But when those nationalist like ourselves, who’ve been paying more attention, see such behaviour we are turned off in far greater numbers than any unionist she can bring over.
She is damaging the yes movement deliberately now, something we may have feared for a while. Any scrupulous leader, as I once believed her, because of the fact she misled parliament would have stepped down temporarily already to clear her name. After this I now think it high times she did that gracefully, but still fear she won’t. Salmond stepped away rather than damage the movement, if she refuses to see how much damage she has done these last few days then she should be removed.
Nail on the head stuff Stu. I struggle to understand why people can’t or won’t see it. Folk like to say Scotland is politcally engaged but I’m beginning to think they’ve stuck their heads in the sand over this.
Well said, Rev.
Very good article.
The awkward thing about this is that, as a result of her handling (or the bungling mishandling down south) of Covid, the FM has become more popular – certainly amongst the people I speak to who have previously either been anti-indy or indy-agnostic. I wonder what the effect would be if she was removed. If she steps down, it looks to me like Angus Robertson is waiting in the wings.
Having quit, and choked all donations to the SNP, I’m now seeking a new cause, a new purpose for my independence-furthering cash.
Let us know when you need to top up your Scottish Independence-seeking war chest, Stu. The more the SNP leadership rails against independence, the more I’ll cough-up for your voice.
Fantastic work, man
We should be moving on from this stuck in the rut snp nonsense,
By all means call them out, and we’ll done to the likes of yourself and Craig Murray for doing so,
However while we focus all our attention on what they are up to we move no further forward to benefit ourselves,
We either take back control of the snp, as a matter of urgency, by everyone en masses going on Facebook and Twitter, emailing the snp , tell them to use the mandate they have now to call a vote on wether we want to end the treaty with immediate effect. Let them know it’s what the people want, do it every day repeat it for a number of weeks, don’t let them miss it, THE SOVEREIGN Nation of Scotland’s PEOPLE will have spoken for all to see,,
What is the point of the people in Scotland being sovereign and having the right to chose whom
governs us if we do nothing to participate. We must do more than sit and moan, and it’s very important to speak up before it’s to late.
This is your finest post in a long time Rev.
If we are to regain our Independence any time soon:
STURGEON MUST GO.
We need a credible LIST-only truly Independence party as an immediate spur for the remaining true-believers in the SNP (the vast majority outside of the leadership – I believe).
It would be even better if Alex Salmond would get involved.
Then we need the recall of all Parliamentarians to Edinburgh to form a National Convention ahead of the pursuit of independence by all available mean.
Forget Westminster.
Does anyone know where I can get a decent priced supply of Chinen Salt
Thank you
I hope I am wrong, but I think the Murrels will cling to power
until it is prized from their fingers.
Then they will laugh and tell us there is no money left in the kitty to fight for independence.
The whole edifice of the party is rotten. Full of people who are comfortable to jog along talking the talk but have no interest in moving forward. (I’m looking at you Wishart).
The SNP is a functioning political party. We haven’t time to start up a replacement. Its leadership team obviously has to go, and quickly, but we must look harder at its public face – MSPs and MPs. They could easily accomplish change but most have sat back for the last six years enjoying the fruits of SNP inaction. Away from their constituencies what have they done that the ‘low flying jimmies’ didn’t do? Independence? What’s that without a s30 that’s been refused? ‘Woke’ policies? Fine with us as long as the expenses come through. Brexit? These things happen when you’re outnumbered 10:1. Alex Salmond? Who’s that? So the Scottish justice system is a wee bit bent? What can we do about it? Question the Boss? Aren’t her outfits just lovely?
We need rapid reconstruction or we’ll soon be living in the final days of a beaten nation.
Removing Murrell, might lead to the domino effect, Murrell must go, no if’s no buts. Plan B must be passed, and implemented if Johnson continues to say no to a S30.
The pro-indy minded within the party must overcome those who are not, no matter who they are, we the public will always back them.
Great stuff from Wings. Many SNP members saying the same thing on twitter, including me!
Since Brexit day at the end of January, many of us have come to realise that the leaders of this SNP have no intentions of regaining Scotland,s Independence.
I was horrified when Nicola Sturgeon jumped into twitter at the weekend to pour rebukes at all those criticising Ms Spears. Spears had lied on Twitter and the FM of Scotland jumped in quickly to defend her.
I’ve been voting for and been an activist for the SNP and I have been proud to do so for 56 years. I do have a right to call on our leaders to RESIGN! And now! They have brought the SNP into disrepute with a prosecution of Alex Salmond, a stalwart of the party, and I’m so angry with them.
There will be NO Independence if they are not booted out or resign.
@ James Che
‘We must do more than sit and moan, and it’s very important to speak up before it’s to late.’
I agree but not everyone is on Facebook or twitter, so what about both of them plus email and snail mail campaigns? But I think if it was done electronically or via social media might be better choosing a day to deluge them so it makes more impact. Also not all are members, or members any more, so we have to include a way for every independence supporter to make a mark and to make any such campaign cohesive.
It is not about the party, it is not about the snp, they as a government are not sovereign, wake up.
We are the only ones that can do this.
ScottieDog @ 1.35pm.
I wonder what the effect would be if she was removed
The union is damaged irreparably, with or without Sturgeon, most Scots see the benefits of independence and have now arrived at that natural decision regardless of who’s in charge of the SNP. I think Scotland’s more than ready.
Robertson: unless Marco Biagi – already very popular in Ed Central – somehow manages to clutch defeat from a local victory, it’ll be a case of meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
As I feel the SNP’s now completely busted, I’m dearly hoping Cherry, Whitford, Angus and other independence-supporting SNPs have a plan for a new party.
what happens if … the murrells divorce and the queen passes away?
I know you are right Stu. It has become impossible to make some others see what is happening. I believe it is because it would be too painful for them to accept.
I have one hell of a decision to make. Do I vote SNP to keep the illusion of Independence ( for that’s what it is) alive or do I cut the losses and abstain from voting ? Some choice eh? .Apart from an Indy party list vote that is.
Either the SNP comes back to its roots or I will have to find something different to believe in which will accomplish my hopes for a free Scotland.
This is very hard indeed to accept.
The amount of time, money ,and effort gone to waste is choking.
@Bob Mack –
The ‘party’ is inanimate. It isn’t to ‘blame’ for anything.
It’s the people running it right now who are to blame and our problem is that they have a big covid-shaped excuse to stay there for as long as they decide we have a ‘national emergency’.
We do indeed have a national emergency – it’s just not the one Nicola would have us believe.
Excellent piece. I’m sure detractors will find the sections, ‘for the slow kids at the back’, with links to previous articles, particularly helpful in answering any questions.
In Scotland’s long history of glorious defeats & futile victories, the pitiful refrain of, ‘Scotland won’t be dragged out of the EU against its will’, is worthy of a latter-day dishonourable mention for impotent fury.
I had suggested some time ago that rallies outside HR demanding NS ‘Use the mandate/s or resign’ might have had more purpose than marches/rallys in Glasgow etc (good as they are for morale).
But we’re way beyond that point, the Murrells have to go.
Great article.
Miss you on twitter btw.
Polly I to a certain extent agree, but that does not stop those that can and do use social media from using it right now as a public voice, enough time is unnecessarly passing, we the people must act,
The Scottish government are not sovereign, we the people are.
Waiting for someone or some party to organise could be a long wait, a wait that makes Scotland’s people miss the boat for independence, time is of the essence here,
We have a way of making our voices heard right now, and meanwhile we all could help others to find a voice, why keep putting it off?
That makes us work along the same lines as the snp does it not?
Unequivocally, Independence is the first, second and only option for our country. Forget referendums, the result of a Scottish Parliament vote in favour of Independence is the justification for resiling from Treaty of Union and self determination. We need a party which has this as the one and only objective. Forget side issues such as gender identification, socialism, etc. Once we have Independence we can determine social direction of the country according to the majority view, after the election.
I don’t know how you managed to get down on “paper” everything I am seeing and feeling about the current situation mate but thank God there’s some sanity out there. I have no idea how you’ve stuck it out this long with the abuse, I’ve barely scratched the surface and it’s doing my head in. I know if you remember me from twitter you’ll know we didn’t always see eye to eye stu but I’m glad you’re still around man.
Section 30 was only granted for 2014 because the British knew Alex Salmond would hold a vote even if they refused
It was the best option for them; a vote without their blessing would have severely handicapped the NO campaign. An added bonus was creating a slight precedent -which the current SNP leadership have made worse.
The British know that the current SNP Leadership are very unlikely to go against them, that is why they have no fear rejecting S30
You’d think other SNP politicians have noticed this cul-de-sac situation too. You’d think they’d be well aware their seats could be in jeopardy if enough folk feel they can’t vote for woke or the HCB or just the lack of the enthusiasm for indy. You’d think they’d coral the wagons and think about overthrowing the Murrells and going for indy. If not that, is it too late to register another iParty that they could all defect over too?
What’s stopping them from doing something? Fear? Finance? Confidence?
Are they really just going to let Scotland slide into chaos and uber poverty when these MSP/MP’s could do something to prevent it?
Ohhh to know what Alex is making of all of this, the party he built is unrecognisable today. I keep hoping that he will come back with his own party, he still has many supporters who KNOW He is the one leader of the past 13yrs of SNP governance that has the actual courage to take WM on..
I doubt very much he will ever again try to be Mr Nice Guy When dealing with WM. Even if he could not beat St NICOLA Outright, he most certainly would be a jaggy thorn in her side. when he won his seat in HR.
He would be able to swipe her down in HR & show her up for what she is. A Careerist who toes the line in the name of her & her nasty husbands lifestyles. I don’t attack her out of nastiness, It is through hurt at the actions of what I honestly believed Was ALEX MK2, ignoring the yes movement to the extent she did. Not even popping out to speak to the 120,000+ that Marched & assembled in Edinburgh.
To watch her fight to save England from their stupidity of BREXIT, yet that all makes sense now, cause BREXIT was her fear of forcing her into probably having to act on INDY.
But the treatment & Betrayal of ALEX, was Just too much for me to ever continue supporting the party I have been voting for over 50yrs. With St Nic at the helm & her partner in crime being the nastiest piece of work within the SNP party.. They have managed to ruin the party that was once solid.
Much more open & honest & transparent than any of the UNIONIST Parties.. Not only have they replaced LABOUR, As the main party in Scotland, but have taken on all of Labours corrupt conniving Sneaky traits, even to losing all respect for their voters, & Insulting them beyond belief.
I will NOT give her my vote again, & unless there is another party standing for INDY or even an INDEPENDENT, Then I will be casting 1 vote only on the list for the ISP..
Do we remember all those on here who have stated again and again that NS has never formally requested a S30?
From Martin Keatings tl yesterday he had a quote of K***N H***E, bumping his gums saying ‘the question has always been when will the SNP ask for it (S30) and Sturgeon wont ask for it until she thinks she can win it.
Martin replied:
‘Kevin Hague wrong again. She’s already asked twice and been told no. I know this because the second time was the final criterion which caused us to move forward with the #peoplesas30.’
So another entrenched fallacy blown.
I cant see Pete Wishart without sighing. The mans statement of HofC says it all and sums up the whole charade.
SNP now in with the bricks. If they manage to get rid of the Joanna Cherrys of the party then heaven help us all.
PS – Is That Rhiannon link correct?
Excellent article! And one that finally makes my mind up. I will be spoiling my ballot if we get to another election and the same scum are still in charge of the snp. There is no difference between Sturgeon & Co and the BritNats.
I’ve been voting for a party that will bring us to indy ASAP, I’ve no intentions of voting for a glorified council run by self-serving powertrippers intent on ramming their pet projects down our throats. That party of indy no longer exists under the current leadership.
Oh, and I’ll *never* again vote in a Westminster general election. I’m not helping to send anymore trough feeders to that place.
I think “Ian Brotherhood says” they are a package and have to be treated as such. If there was honesty or integrity about them they would be looking for an appropriate moment now.
Six years is a decent stint as FM and stepping down would allow new leadership to bed in for an election and give them a chance to leave with a reasonably intact reputation in the eyes of the public.
I fear that removing them will be like taking a limpet from a rock and the tide may wash over us before we are done.
I wonder, would a split of the SNP into two parties help the fight for independence?
What if, two strong independence parties emerge from the next election in Scotland?
The SNP would provide 48 MSPs, the new independence party get 24 MSPs and the Greens may pick up 5 or more seats. This would force the SNP into a coalition with the new independence party and that new party would have the power to force the SNP into action.
I also believe that such a new independence party may attract votes from people that want independence but don’t support the SNP. The Greens are no alternative for some Labour orientated voters that want independence. That brings up the question about the orientation of such a new independence party. Historically, Scotland has a “left” or “social” orientation, therefore I would think of a Labour oriented party, that can “steal” voters form Scottish Labour.
Would that be possible? Would this be a game changer?
Certainly, once Scotland gains the independence the political landscape will change and the SNP will lose their purpose.
Thinking of that, here we have the true reason why the SNP alone will not deliver independence to Scotland.
Sturgeon and Murrell are Scotland’s very own Bonnie and Clyde.
And to answer a question up thread from Ian Brotherhood,
Yes Ian,,, they should go down together.
And we should hold a raffle to see who gets to pull the trigger.
What another brilliant article. Really excellent.
I still can’t believe Sturgeon took that “not at this time” slap down from May. That was the real turning point for me. May was a ridiculously weak PM and Sturgeon let her do that…
Anyway, contrary to one of the article’s themes, I actually am happier about the state of affairs now than I have been for about 3 years. In a sense it might seem grim and chaotic, but at least we are discussing things honestly today.
And it was impossible to discuss things honestly when everyone was going around blindly praising Sturgeon and the SNP. Those were the worst years for me, when every time I said a thing I got accused of being an MI5 plant, etc.
I hope people have learned that blind loyalty is a major barrier to progress, in every context. It’s particularly irrational, stupid, and counter-productive in politics.
Nicola could go with a halo citing exhaustion from Covid-19 and leave the field open for someone with real Independence fire like Joanna Cherry.
Alternatively she could delegate the responsibility of an Indy campaign.
Alternatively she can sink in the mire of her own making.
The SNP’s reason for being is Independence, not devolution, not woke gender bending philosophies and it is certainly not to be comfortable and hide behind the NEC and cohorts.
I want my party back!
Slightly off topic but have just seen someone ask on twitter for a list of prospective candidates by constituency and which of these are the beardywokes. Can anyone point me in the right direction, thanks?
@ James Che. says:
28 September, 2020 at 2:01 pm
I agree and have seen voices raised since this latest storm and long may they continue. Before Sturgeon’s latest badly advised intervention to protect Spear I had hoped she might remain until after the next election, despite inquiry, no push for independence etc., even if only as a figurehead and to not cause great destabilisation with leadership change before we’re fully out of EU and before such a momentous election coming up. After that though I now feel she should go as quickly as possible or be got rid off. So the more voices who speak out and the louder the better for me.
But when you talked of all speaking out I feel speaking out together, at same time, with same words can make more impact. I remember someone suggesting something along the lines of emailing/letter writing campaign before. That or a physical rally outside Holyrood – probably impossible for a while – would show the will of people power. I would hope we could do both individual and collective complaint against their policies and find ways going forward to coalesce together.
Tremendous work Stu!
They must be quaking in their boots at the thought of you coming off your holiday break and hitting the work full time 😀
I’ll play devils advocate here and make an assumption – one which will never be proved.
NS and her hubby, Wishart and his backer Swinney – have been nobbled. It doesn’t need to have been with bribes or dirt, it can be as simple as pointing out how easy it would be for the Brit Nat establishment to arrange for a fatal accident to happen to one of their loved ones. Prizes and sweeties then follow to sweeten the pill, and keep them compromised.
We know that the media, always so keen to find SNP bad at any turn, have been ignoring these concerns, these valid questions, and all this ammunition, in a way that is completely out of character.
NS is the new Tony Blair – she is there to manage the expectations of the Indy Movement, and keep kicking the can down the road until Brexit is delivered, and Devolution destroyed. Job done.
The SNP accounts have been published, but the Indy Fund not. Had the first not been published they might have had an opportunity to transfer moneys from one to the other. That avenue is no longer available.
So, NS keeps on the Brit Nat track, or – if the money from the Indy Campaign fund (ring fenced don’t you know) has been used for other purposes, there will be a criminal investigation for fraud. Big scandal, just in time for HE.
We know that those ‘silent majority’ tory types don’t like to publicly campaign. But from memory, they did when it came to the ‘named person’ policy. GRA will see them hit the streets big time, and for once they will have a legitimate point. Just in time for HE.
The Hate Bill is incompetent, ill thought out, and decried by everyone from Police, to Judges, to artists. Bad publicity – well earned – just in time for HE.
Anyone seeking comfort from the SNP riding high in the polls needs to wake up, and do it fast.
We need legitimate, electable candidates for Indy. We need to lance this boil as soon as possible, and we need to get support for Indy over 60% before years end – with or without the SNP support.
We need a mandate to which Independent Indy candidates can sign up to. We need them to stand for the list seats, and we need valid seconds, potentially able to sign up for the mains seat at HE, should the SNP continue with this, ‘we need another mandate, the electorate isn’t ready to vote for a plebecite HE’. Not once support for Indy is over 60% it’s not.
It’s too soon for Scottish voters to lose Holyrood, its too soon for them to lose their NHS, its too soon for them to lose Scottish Water, to lose the renewables, to lose the remaining oil and gas, too soon to lose their Human Rights, to lose their jobs, their farms and fishing, their food standards, its too soon for them to lose their country.
And we can do so much better than Boris.
It should be borne in mind that a certain proportion – perhaps a significant proportion – of those who contribute to Nicola Sturgeon’s and the SNP’s high ratings do so because they know she’s lukewarm at best on Independence, or certainly Independence soon.
They are very probably – like Sturgeon et al – willing to split the difference and settle for increased devolution (fat chance but there we are) as a means to achieve an eventual de facto Independence (if they want Independence at all, that is) which can then be easily made de jure.
The interim misery aside from suffering such a long-term goal, the problem with this strategy is that an Independent Scotland achieved in this way will inextricably have all the mechanisms and structures which make the UK such a pig’s arse of a State. There will be no blank canvas, no blue-sky thinking, no hope for a better, fairer place to live.
“Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.”
Pointless.
Sturgeon is a self-serving powertripper hiding behind Covid as an excuse. Maybe you should produce an article, Rev, on all the other countries on our planet who seem to be holding votes etc as well as getting on with the usual business of governing. Here’s a starter: https://archive.is/ul5C0
The woke are deservedly getting it in the neck…..at long last.
The many,many fence-sitters in the SNP (Councillors, MSPs and MPs) better pick a side now. There is a split in the party the woke 2% against the rest of us. Sadly the woke control the NEC…. at the moment. They are finished.
Excellent article .
Again I ask Stu – Could you name the wokeratti, fence-sitters and sane candidates for the SNP.
P.S. This puts a new light on the murrells unstinting pursuit of genderwoowoo; their thought crime bill; failure to attend a single yes march; the immediate suspension of sane members of the SNP; unquestioning support of the yoon media( and failing to call out their lies); the lack of comment regarding the vile attacks on SNP politicos by the wokeratti and their utter failure to prepare for indyref2.
So we can basically count on that shitspittle Spear getting the nomination as MSP then.
Bang on – as always.
And another thing.
NS and her husband, are not going anywhere. There will be no great exposure of her and her husband, unless they stop playing ball. The Brit Nats will invoke D Notices, and Interdicts preventing any negative publicity. If they haven’t done so already.
Of the remaining SNP loyal brigade – There are those who still believe, and those who know fine well its a cluster f@@k and have made a calculated decision to double down on it and hope it goes away.
The whole Yes Movement still needs them, along with former No voters. We attack them, and their thought process at our peril, they will dig in even further.
We have common ground – we campaign (Covid appropriate methods) and we get support for Indy over 60% before years end.
Nicola will hate it;)
Oh Dear you can almost hear the keyboards tap taping away with indignant venom, Tut Tut from the Brain Dead Lurkers , how upsetting eh ? ,
Well counter the arguments offered , don’t just Snipe and make Snide remarks in your many comments on other platforms , defend your vision of the Nirvana you believe you have been promised , justify the actions of the SNP leadership and not least ” The Plan ” what’s the next Cunning Move eh ? , I hope it’s better than the Last Cunning Move and that was ” Make Alex defend himself on as many fronts as possible ” as offered by wait for it Drum Roll Mr Moneybags himself Mr Murrell ,
Loyalty is really admired and a truly commendable virtue, BUT ,
Blind unquestioned Stupidity is just that.
Hint for those of diminished critical thought and in big letters STUPIDITY just in case you are blind as well as Bloody Dumb as the day you were born .
@Daisy Walker
What if the nobbling was to suggest distance from AS (the real threat to the UK) and delay Independence or they (the SNP heid yins) might would be implicated in the case that they all thought they would win?
Maybe Sturgeon’s next letter will deploy three consecutive exclamation marks and the British state will crumble.
-Rev Stu-
Summed up perfectly. What a terrible state of affairs! I’m not sure I agree that Sturgeon and Murrell will be gone that soon, why do you think so?
-Daisy Walker-
As usual you are right.
What a great article Rev and long overdue..!
As a Johnny Foreigner, “on the outside, looking in”, the last 3-4 years I have to admit, have been one long stream of bizzare madness and incompetence from WM.
Opportunities galore for the SNP/SG to hound the Brit Nats from court to court, clear the path for the constitutional sovereign questions, drive the YES movement forward. Etc, etc.
NS had the chance to make history alongside AS, Wallace and the Bruce. Scotland forever independent.
Instead she became a small-town manager with big salary, devoid of courage but addicted to very strange people around her with weird minority ideas or visions of vengence.
Thankfully the Rev kept plugging away and now the dam’s got a couple of rapidly expanding holes in it. 🙂
Spot on Rev,
time we got this show back on the road, before the stable door gets welded shut – coming soon.
If this is the most powerful weapon in the snp armoury we’re fucked: https://twitter.com/ScotGovEurope/status/1310534564956250119
Sums up exactly how I feel.
So on the long road to Independence, I now have to vote to give the SNP a majority at next years Holyrood Election which they claim will force Johnson into granting a Section 30 order for another referendum. Highly dubious.
In return I have to give up my lifelong beliefs in Sex not Gender and if I raise protest against such policy I can now be jailed for speaking my mind. It will become Hate Speech.
Granting the SNP a large majority next year will come at a huge cost. Why on earth are they forcing voters to make this choice ?
This is exactly the type of powerful article I’ve been waiting for, time is too short to hold back on laying the truth out, some still won’t want to accept the truth but if we’re ever to see independence we must give the vehicle an urgent MOT.
The online National appears to consider this newsworthy.
https://www.thenational.scot/news/18752331.many-new-eye-problems/
Could think of more hot news items than a reader’s hypochondria.
However, might Nurse Nicola do a briefing on these novel symptoms?
Could offer an extra reason to quarantine ie repress the people.
It would be interesting to know how robust Daddy’s power base is atm. Is he really content to sit back and let Angus R assume the mantle of chosen one without a fight? He strikes me as the more ambitious man.
NS gave a good press conference again today. I’ve been noticing how similar her syntax and pacing is to Salmond’s own. I wonder if she knows just how much he still influences her?
‘SilverDarling says:
28 September, 2020 at 2:58 pm
@Daisy Walker
What if the nobbling was to suggest distance from AS (the real threat to the UK) and delay Independence …’
We will never know. AS getting on TV (when so much of the media is agin us), AS working as a free agent (with all his experience and contacts) along side NS – should have been a game winner, as every Yes supporter thought at the time… except NS for some reason.
We will never know for certain. And part of what makes nobbling so effective, is those betrayed spend a long time, wasting time and energy sifting through the tea leaves, looking for evidence for and against.
What we can prove is ground not covered when it should have been and ground still needing to be covered by Yes supporters of all ilks – with or without SNP leadership approval.
The SNP under NS said Lend us your votes.
Now Yes supporters need to say to those still loyal to NS/SNP ‘lend us your campaign time and energy and get support for Indy over 60% before years end’.
Martin Luther King – just prior to the world changing march in Washington where he gave his ‘I have a dream’ speech had a meeting with President Kennedy.
Kennedy told him, ‘make it so I have no choice but to do what you ask.’ Which is what happened at the march.
We have to make it so that this gradualist attitude is out of date, that events and support blow it out of the water, we have to make it so that NS ‘has no choice’. We have to make it so that we have alternative democratic candidates to vote for.
But mostly we have to win.
I now have my doubts about the Independence for Scotland Party. One of the co-founders has returned to Twitter and supports Trump (first follow from new account), anti-lockdown, herd immunity and seemingly wants to work for Andrew Neil’s new right-wing GB News.
That is not a party for me.
https://imgur.com/a/Np4ctIQ
Personally, I don’t think there is any intention to hold indyref any time soon.
I’ve said this before – I do not believe the current leadership want the responsibility of the transition period. Whoever takes that on will have a major task. Much simpler to bide some time and build up those all important contacts for a life after government.
So thankful for your spirited writing.
I’ve been a keen Scottish Independence supporter for many years and feel supremely cheated by Nicola Sturgeon, her husband and friends. Surely now a majority of SNP members can see what these people are up to and oust them from power.
@ SilverDarling says:
28 September, 2020 at 2:58 pm
‘…the case that they all thought they would win’
This is what I still find hard to believe. Anyone looking at the claims and actual testimony, minus the lurid newspaper headlines (and even when unhampered by listening to the defence witnesses statements as most newspapers didn’t report) even just going on accusers words alone, I don’t see how anyone looking at it critically could ever believe it would stand up and lead to conviction. There was a real incredulity at some things being termed sexual assault, and even with the ‘more of’ collective accusations it amounted to so very little. Possibly just keeping him out of action as they have was enough, they didn’t need to believe winning was worthwhile.
But then as you imply, why didn’t they take time to ensure their own tracks were better covered so they might not later be implicated? It benefits only the union if SNP Scottish government are implicated in scandal.
Considering what they tried to do to Alex Salmond, and the dirty sleazy underhand manner in which they conducted and continue to conduct themselves throughout, I will not be holding my breath that they are going to ‘do what is best’ for the independence movement or the SNP. Quite the opposite is what they will do and as they have been doing for quite some time now.
These people are psychos or are being blackmailed. But whatever the explanation for their unbelievable treachery I’d be amazed if they just resigned.
What worries me is that if their helpers think she is going to be ousted they will deploy some sort of Samson option. Either grant NS indyref2 to lose it. Or use her to blow apart the SNP before she goes.
Murrell is definitely the weakest one. That is who should be targeted first, especially after his disgusting comments were leaked about pressuring the police to go after Alex Salmond (north and south of the border), make as many fronts as possible… what a total backstabbing cunt. Especially when Alex Salmond made the guy. It is beyond belief, it really is.
So go after Murrell first. He is the one who is most vulnerable. Who knows what might happen once he gets ousted. How is he even in the job at this point after that leak. How does anyone think Nicola is not up to her eyeballs in all of this. I cant believe how many people are still clinging to the hope she is not a huge rat.
Forget independence with this lot running the SNP. You would not want them in charge of indyref2 or an independent Scotland (should Team Murrell somehow fail to lose indyref2, they are spectacularly incompetent after all, this is what happens when you surround yourself with woke psychos instead of clever, competent people).
I really don’t get the attribution of gravity and power that people give to Pete Wishart.
The guy played in a shite Highland pop group and I use the word pop in it’s loosest possible sense. I’m reading on WIKI that he’s in a ‘parliamentary'(!!!) rock band. WTF?
In short, why do people treat him as if he’s smarter, cleverer and knows more things than anybody else? I reckon the guy’s pig shit thick and I personally wouldn’t give him the time of day, so I’m at a loss to understand why so many people take him seriously.
Anything he says is meaningless pish. His ‘opinions’ are no more and no less valid than anyone elses.
A ‘parliamentary’ rock band FFS! The guy’s off his fucking head.
Joanna Cherry has tweeted that sometimes it takes years for what people have been up to to reach beyond the political bubble but now it’s all starting to unravel for……Trump.
Yes Joanna, we know who your tweet was really about.
I do not believe, unless Nicola Sturgeon can turn all this around now, that she can possibly survive into the next election. She is under tremendous pressure with Covid, but she could still pull the poker out of the fire if she appoints a champion now to push ahead with independence. After that, she must put some space between her and the trans lobby/wokerati wing and pull the NEC into order. The UKG changes the goalposts and the rules at the drop of a hat, and that is precisely what the NEC did, too. Sheer hypocrisy.
The legal advice she gets is ordure of the first order and she has allowed herself to be seduced by the siren voices of the trans lobby. To be fair to her, so has just about every other leading politicians in Europe, America and Canada. Denton Solicitors are their legal advisers, apparently, or so it says on their website. Positively crowing about it. If I were you, FM, I’d be seeking their advice on how to extricate yourself from the mess their clients have made for you and how to extricate Scotland from the Union at the same time. If you don’t have the dosh to pay these legal eagles, crowdfund. Then ask yourself how the trans lobby can afford these high flying international lawyers?
See you, Duncan Macniven, I don’t know about the Rev, but I am heartily sick of hearing how the Campbells did this, that or the other against Scotland. A few facts, laddie: the Campbells supported, and fought and died for, The Bruce, throughout his campaign; put your money where your big mouth is and go along to Culloden, where, on Drumossie Moor, lie the bones of dead Campbells, cut down by the Redcoats and their cannon as they took part in the Highland Charge for Prince Charles Edward Stuart (albeit they were there to try and re-establish an independent Scottish homeland).
Some Campbells did support the British, and I’d bet some Macnivens did, too. That was the way of the Clan system if you didn’t want to lose all of your lands to the British government and its supporters. Never read R.L. Stevenson? Scottish literary culture too barbarian for you?
All you wokerati and foot-draggers who are just too pure and moral to come down to the level of the rest of us – where sanity resides – get your middle digits out of your nether regions and start thinking about the people who put you where you are – the people who are not cushioned by large salaries and gold-plated pensions and who are terrified about what is coming down the road to meet them because you have done nothing to stop it. If you don’t, the dam will burst and you will all be swept away. No threat that you can use as a weapon, just a prediction.
It defies belief that the Chief Executive is not answering anybody about why he sent those messages about Alex. Not to his wife even who leads the party. That is what they ask you to believe. Me neither. She knew all right.
Do we know if any journalist, print or broadcast, has even tried to contact Peter Murrell?
Do we know if he’s even in the country or not?
When was the last time he was seen in public?
He still hasn’t responded to the Harassment Committee’s request for further details after his impertinent response to their first letter.
Why is he invisible/untouchable?
Someone, somewhere (apart from NS, obvs) must know.
Epic article…
But the polls! The polls!
The fucking polls.
Right now we have scraped a tiny majority for independence which is certain to melt away as soon as the onslaught of “Project Fear – The Return” begins, which will happen as soon as any new independence project starts.
Where might the polls have been if for the past six years we had had an SNP leader who had been vying to bring together every strong voice for independence – inside or outside the party – under one roof, instead of trying to get as many of them as possible chucked out of the party or thrown in jail?
Where might the polls have been by now if for the past six years we had had an SNP leader who had been at the forefront of as many independence events as possible, instead of trying to get the organisers thrown in jail while she crawled up the arse of folk like Alasdair Campbell at English anti-Brexit events?
Where might the polls have been, if we had had dedicated groups of experts, organised under the banner of the SNP, working for months to provide answers to questions like the currency issue – issues that so many ordinary activists find so hard to deal with? Instead we have an odious little control freak telling us that absolutely nothing can be done as long as the Black Plague (aka a bad cold) is on the prowl.
And don’t even get me started on the Wokeys.
Polly again I do not entirely disagree with you, you are at least realising that this is no longer about a political party alone, and for that you have my respect,
But to explain my self better.If we wait for this to become organised under one umbrella, by a group say, we will be to late.
As stu is well aware, as he indicated on Facebook the opposition is looking for the slightest excuse to call Britain into a state of emergency whereby all control will be taken from the devolved governments,
There will be no platform for anyone in the whole of Britain, not just Scotland, no snp, no Holyrude, and no ability to vote for anything. No jobs, no money, no business, no heath care,
I have noticed headlines hinting that Boris Johnson is on the way out, infact I believe bookis are taking bets on it. I have noticed hints that the monarchy is on the way out after queen 2 goes.
It will become a military dictatorship, While we sat around on our hands mentally stuck on snp and who will speak up for us.
We risk becoming permantly attached to this possible new regime that’s coming.
We as a nation do not have time to wait for a hero,
Besides does anyone realise that any kind of petition signed, no matter by how many people, it is classed as only one voice. As one protest. What they don’t tell, won’t hurt you, well it does.
We need to speak up separately, and all together over weeks, we do not need to copy an exact word for word text as long as it involves, “ I “ as a sovereign person living in the country and nation of Scotland declare my right to be governed by the people and nation of Scotland,
What is very very important, is that we never ever say, by a government in Scotland’. Because that gives your sovereignty to a government, and you lose yours.
Ian @3:51 pm
“When was the last time he was seen in public?”
Presenting iron crosses to the Twitler Youth.
I know I’ve already written too much, but just one more thing: those of us who are trying to take the SNP and the SG back to sanity and their primary purpose are NOT agents provocateur, nor are we double informers. If the people who says these things had any wit, they’d know that you need power to overturn a government or a movement. In NI, the ‘("Tractor" - Ed)s’ were right beside the leadership of Sinn Fein and the IRA, and were present throughout the organizations, and had been so for more than 20 years, and they didn’t criticize the party or the movement – EVER.
Mist001 @3.46pm
Hold on there Mist Wishart might be a trougher at Westminster content to sit back and finish out his career there, whilst carping from the sidelines.
However Runrig are not a shit band, Loch Lomond is one of the most famous and widely sung songs in Scotland, especially at events and football matches.
Cuphook,
That made me laugh.
Thank you, Rev, for enduring all you have to put up with and for continuing to insist that 2 + 2 = 4.
The Harassment Inquiry ought to be the end of the Murrell tyranny as CEO and it should also shine a light on the whole murky GetSalmond business, with a consequent clear-out of any conspirators. What hope is there of that?
Maybe the appalled reaction to the NS pro-Spear tweets will give MSPs and MPs the courage to challenge the Inner Party?
Would a grassroots Yesser twitter/e-mail/actual letter-writing campaign help to fortify any waverers to do the decent thing?
On Radio 4 Any Questions last week Joanna Cherry said she expected to see independence in the next . . . TEN YEARS.
Do we despair or do we fight?
“Do we know if any journalist, print or broadcast, has even tried to contact Peter Murrell?”
Yes, I know several who have tried. They just get totally blanked, not even a “no comment”. It’s the standard SNP response to tricky queries. I know a couple who’ve asked about the “ring-fenced” finances and had the same.
I hope the selection folk in Argyll and Bute appreciate the toxic Spears has already given the LibDems and Conservatives ample “copy” for their usual leaflet blitz prior to next May.
And surprisingly (for the LibDems) the leaflets will not be stuffed full of lies.
@ Black Joan, 10 years?. Can you postal vote from heaven, or the other place?
A quote from previous article discussing the Murrels keeps echoing in my head.
“If they had delivered independence they would have lacked for nothing.”
So true and so sad.
I will piss myself laughing if Sturgeon announces that the Holyrood vote will be a vote for Indy as Westminster is refusing a Sec30.
Gaun yerself, Stuart.
If you are receiving abuse from ‘Devolutionists’ in the SNP (aka unionists), you are on the right tracks.
Lorna, I too have had a lot to say today, and I am hoping that the people in Scotland pay heed,
It does not matter wether you are English, Scots, Irish, or born of a different nationality taking up Scotland as your home,
The important thing is to remember, that should Scotland and its people escape from the new dictatorship that is coming by the skin of its teeth, it would provide a sanctuary for other nations of people in Britain too.
We must do this, we cannot wait for someone else, and we need to take action sooner than later.
Man, I might become somewhat intemperate in my language and practice, if folk don’t stop misrepresenting the ‘progressive’ wing of the party as being WOKE. This is the sort of language use we get angry about from ‘One Nation’ yoons who describe Britain as a “nation”. The ‘progressive’ wing are simply regressive in their approach to the law, and as far from supporting the rights of women and ethnic minorities as it gets. So they are not WOKE. In fact, their legal ignorance and tendency towards aggressive authoritarianism, poses a serious threat to open democracy and global sustainability.
SAGE Books
Interpretive Phenomenology: Embodiment, Caring, and Ethics in Health and Illness
Chapter 4: Hermeneutic Phenomenology: A Methodology for Family Health and Health Promotion Study in Nursing
https://sk.sagepub.com/books/interpretive-phenomenology/n4.xml
I just looked at Wisharts ‘vile’ tweet.
That in itself is unsurprising given the number of times this site has handed him his arse.
It’s the replies that make you wince….there’s such a culture of both utter irrational hatred of Stuart personally, combined with a ‘stick your head in the sand…or up your own arse…you choose’ desperation to see the FM as some sort of saint and Wishart as a lauded disciple.
If you best you can come up with by way of a rebuttal of this piece is ‘Hillsborough’ then you are pretty much fucked for an argument.
Still…the replies are a good start for a blocklist of ‘Yesser’ (I doubt some of them) sycophantic nutbaggery.
@ Republicofscotland
No. They’re shite.
Donnie Munro was sitting in his car outside my house in Edinburgh one day when I came out the front door and the guy stopped reading his Daily Record and gave me a good checking out, which I thought was a bit weird and unsettled me a bit.
But to give him his due, I think Donnie Munro is a very, VERY good painter and easily the most talented out of all of them. If I had more money, I’d buy some of his stuff, that’s how highly I rate it!
Shame he fancied himself as a politician too. Must be a fucking Highland thing.
But regarding Pete Wishart, what makes him so special, that he knows more stuff about stuff than anybody else? Just ‘cos he played in a pishy pop group, he’s suddenly afforded all this importance?
You can see from what he writes, that he’s not overburdened in the thinking department.
@ Black Joan: 10 YEARS? Kill me now, please.
I have alerted my branch to the problems at the top of the party and am feeling a tiny amount of the odium that the Rev has received over the years. It is a very unpleasant feeling indeed. So again, thank you, Rev, for fighting the good fight. I share your belief that the truth is sacrosanct and will continue to fight for it as best I can.
I have joined the facebook group SNP Members for Independence, in the hope that if it gets mega-members it might encourage some more MPs/MSPs to act. The group has 326 members so far – up 200 over the weekend – but it needs many many more.
Oh dear.
https://twitter.com/PeteWishart/status/1310580144713732096
@ Rev re PW and followers: there’s none so blind as those who will not see.
Rev Stu @4:22
That from Wishart was clearly aimed at Kenny MacAskill. They’re really rattled now.
@kapelmeister at 4:27
Absolutely
A rousing post. Better than Bella 😀
“No. They’re shite”
Mist.
Well each to their own opinion, but I have to disagree. As for Munro, I’m not interested in what paper he reads, just the music.
Pete Wishart has lost it completely!
Maniac.
As we all know the Internal Market bill, will ride roughshod all over devolution, I’ve even read that it will affect the Barnett Formula reducing Holyrood’s spending powers. However, that’s not all, the Westminster government will be able to supercede Holyrood on a whole host of currently devolved matter, and in effect virtually negate Holyrood, turning it into a talking shop.
We did hear a similar outcry from the SNP government, on Brexit, Ian Blackford stood up regularly in the HoC, and bellowed out Scotland will not stand for it (Being dragged out of the EU), we all know how that turned out.
Knowing the above, and Sturgeon must also know it as well, why isn’t she screaming for a Plan B from the rooftops of Holyrood. Our parliament is under threat, our economy is under threat, the only way to save both is independence, don’t they realise ifwe go down so do they.
‘Slippery character dropped article about that arsewipe!’ (4,7)
What did PW’s tweet say? I get interference every time I log on twitter.
re. Pete Wishart. Have clown-shoes become party uniform, or are they simply an affectation of those who lack moral and intellectual substance?
Remember, the GRA amendments are not compatible with EU Health law, though neither is Brexit. In fact, one of the main reasons for Brexit, is English Torydum’s pathological need to separate those living in Britain from international human rights law and the precautionary principle. This will liberate their ideology so that they can get down to some real social re-imagination. So it’s wankers like PW we can thank for our subjugation through and by arbitrary and dogmatic legal practice.
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/80778293.pdf
All true.
There have been many instances where NS should have shut down the bullies, woke types, misogynists, etc., and she didn’t. She chooses which people to ignore or help. Her unfairness in such matters shows her lack of fitness to lead.
She’s supporting Spear who is apparently “happy” with devolution. If that’s the extent of their ambition for Scotland then God help us.
Scotland has been insulted time after time in the last few years since the referendum. The Vow, EVEL but not SVSL, Brexit, Continuity Bill overridden and now the Internal Market Bill. Add to that a weak, useless PM in May and now the blithering idiot Johnson, more mandates you can shake a stick at and yet, here we are trapped by the malign, corrupt Westminster – the SNP Government unable (or unwilling) to free Scotland.
Too many on the green benches are feathering their own nests. Anyone with any pride would walk out. Wishart is particularly arrogant and reminds me of the Labour MPs who thought the gravy train would last forever.
If not now then when?
The SNP are pushing – against popular opinion – some of the most science and reality denying shite. How the hell can I vote for them?
As I am in possession of a little too much (solid but rumour-based) knowledge and an over-developed sense of melodrama, suffice to say….
Watch out my fellow five-eights, there’s dastardliness about – and you won’t read about it in the newspapers.
Re Sturgeon and the wokeness. I’ve said plenty of times the higher ups at the SNP know exactly what’s going on with that and the GRA, now with this support of a prominent gender advocate I’m of the opinion they fully support the Trans ideology. God help Indy if Sturgeon is asked the same question as Swinson, What is a woman? as I think the result will be the same: a total collapse of confidence in the person who can’t answer such a simple question and the public realising they are a nutter. Indy can be shot down with that sort of thing.
Maybe Tweety Petey is trying – to use Mr Oliver’s phrase – to act as a lightening rod and heroically deflect the pelters away from his beloved leader.
CameronB Brodie says:
“Man, I might become somewhat intemperate in my language and practice, if folk don’t stop misrepresenting the ‘progressive’ wing of the party as being WOKE”
I think “Progessive” is a very good description of these people.
I grew up in Kilmarnock, when Willie Ross was MP. The local Tories did not stand for the council as “conservative” but as “progressive”in an attenpt to fool some people.
So I think “progessive ” is a very good name for the type of person who would sell their granny for soap, in order to get into power.
Would be useful to know who not to vote for like Spears while continuing to support the remnants of the decent SNP. A good guy / wank list of all MSP candidates.
Without the support of the decent folk still left supporting the SNP I doubt the woke wanks could get elected. Sends a clear fuck you message to the rats at the top as well. We can afford to lose a few MSPs. No point voting for these woke rats anyway so why not specifically start targeting them for explicitly no support.
We need to go on the offensive here. These wankers are much weaker than we realise.
@Oneliner (4.54) –
Blimey, that’s cryptic!
Go on, give us a wee clue…
😉
I see poor Pete Wishart is crying into his slippers about this article , backed up by a tragic bunch of unthinking sheep who hang on his every word.
These people are cultists, licking the boots of a man who laughs at them while living on a huge salary and expenses.
@Oneliner says:
28 September, 2020 at 4:54 pm
“Watch out my fellow five-eights, there’s dastardliness about – and you won’t read about it in the newspapers.”
Wacky Races? Or is it Operation Stop that Pigeon with a big stick?
Ian Brotherhood @4.43pm ‘dropped article about that arsewipe!’ (4,7)
Very nice one! Anagrammatic nominative determinism lives.
Daisy Walker, I almost copy and pasted it here so you could read it. However, I then thought about whether there may be a defamation suit in the offing and decided not to. Sorry.
Kapelmeister got it right. It was clearly intended as a swipe at Kenny MacAskill. Indeed, I read it as a personal attack on Mr MacAskill. I believe that is a breach of party rules.
Black Joan, there is only one way to find out, and at this stage the people of Scotland have nothing to lose and everything to gain
@ Skip-SN
Very cryptic. Many thanks for trying.
Daisy Walker, the words “Vile” and “Hate-fest” were used. To quote Mr Wishart, (don’t look).
IF, IF, IF AUOB would be up for organising a Covid friendly Demo for outside Bute House and give it the title of:-
“Murrell Must Go”
then I’m right up for it.
Howz about it Manni???
deerhill
That’s rather twisted logic which supports right-wing authoritarianism and totalitarianism. There is nothing wrong with a progressive legal agenda when put into effective practice. The emancipation of slaves springs to mind, though that is still an unfinished project the radical right wish to undermine.
There is nothing progressive about the GRA amendments, which simply undermine the normative foundations of culture, by articulating a dogmatic legal rejection of contemporary political theory and bioethics. This is exactly what the Nazis did, i.e. the practice of EUGENICS. So at least the GRA amendments are legally coherent and compatible with Brexit and British constitutional practice.
http://www.jceps.com/wp-content/uploads/PDFs/03-1-08.pdf
I wonder what the resulting furore would be were Angus McNeil or Joanna Cherry to cross the floor and join the ISP which may then entice A S Back into the fray as its figure head…I have a feeling that the Murrells would fill their pants!
Did anyone see or hear Sturgeon’s song and dance act today, aka the corona briefing?
I only caught the end of her speech but it sounded to me like a goodbye speech.
This got me thinking about her tweets at the weekend. Is it possible she was speaking generally to newbies coming into politics and simply wishing them well, etc?
Is it possible she was wishing them well in the sense that she won’t be here but good luck in the future…
It could be that this latest article by Rev has led to some sort of overdose of positive energy in my head, but I’m feeling some sort of ripples in the force today… I think she’s about to resign.
It would be a good time for her to go in terms of the story she could tell;
when I was there we won all sorts of elections and broke records, we did all this great stuff and support for Indy was 55%, etc., etc…. then this terrible corona came along and the pressure was immense, on top of that these vile cybernat keyboard warriors were hounding me and I decided enough was enough…
Stories matter.
Rev Stu,
It’s not just question about Murrell that get totally blanked. Ordinary members emails to party headquarters go unanswered. The party is broken on every level and all through the malign mismanagement of the coterie of control.
That the party leadership is now at war with the rank and file who previously trusted them all trust is now gone. Totally and utterly. There is nothing they can do to redress what they have systematically done.
Will she try to cancel the election in May. Well she might try. The electoral commission have been looking at options of delaying till December. They have also been looking at turning any election a postal only election – and that tells you how desperate they are.
And the option of Direct Rule by Westminster. Well that is more than an option as the U.K. Internal Internal Market Bill strips the Scottish Parliament and its bodies of all powers. Westminster didn’t set up the new UK Government in Scotland hub building in Edinburgh for no reason.
Like Austria in the 1930’s the Reich and its supporters are all in place tooled up ready to go.
And the vile cybernats that Sturgeon now darkly complains of – well we know how the Reich dealt with dissenters!
Daisy Walker 4.47
Here are Pete Wishart’s pearls of wisdom
Bought from Ratners, obviously
“What an absolutely vile creature ‘Wings over Scotland’ is (don’t look). The very worst of the #SNPbad blogger demagogues. How any SNP Parliamentarian could ever think about contributing to his hate fest is way beyond me.”
I’ll say it again we have the war to win there will be political Casualties on the way but this should stop us from highlighting the disease that is unionism so stop the pettiness bickering and concentrate on winning as this site is now becoming painful to follow.One of the reasons i say thus is people i know have stopped reading the site which has still so much to offer
How come Mr Murrel’s wikipedia entry is so short on detail.does not say where he was born nor anything about his close family anybody know where he was birn , who his parents are/were , where he went to primary school. Etc?
It seems the only hope we have left, to gain our freedom is to vote for the torieswe have more chance of them delivering it than the SNP
And that’s a fact
There is much beyond the scope of Mr Wisharts understanding. Including Independence and how to get it.
@ Dave Somerville
AUOB are a social organisation, not a political group so the chances of them doing anything worthwhile are zero. Don’t look to them for help.
On a seperate issue – I see the SNP accounts are up on the electoral commission website.
@Alasdair McLean.
Win what exactly? An independence referendum? Good luck with being allowed to have one
It strikes me that seeing the responses to Pete Wishart’s tweet, even on his own timeline, that there is now pretty clear ideological water between party loyalists / supporters of the gradualist weltanschauung, and the attitude of pro independence folk who are appalled with it and support a more realist approach to ensure a vote or plebiscitary election happens sooner rather than later.
To that end I think it is now time to accept that many of us have no desire to return to supporting (still less joining or rejoining) the party even if Sturgeon and the Wokus Dei enemy within are removed. Who cares what Pete Wishart tweets, or whether Sturgeon fully supports Rhiannon Spears?
It’s not my party any more. I wouldn’t campaign along side any of them, or those that shared their views. Just because we all share independence as a common goal doesn’t mean I am obliged to kow-tow to their deeply regressive, a-scientific and misogynistic platform, any more than I’m obliged to do so with pro-independence libertarians or blood and soil nationalists.
The SNP is no longer fit for purpose, nor can it be rendered so. Hoping against hope that its membership will wake up and smell the coffee is a forlorn pursuit; it is in fact the very definition of banging our heads against a wall, it’s just that it’s taken some of you longer to admit that it hurts.
Enough and more than enough. Let’s do something different. There is probably too little time to make much difference with Holyrood 2021, but since the SNP haven’t a scooby what they are doing anyway, we may as well start laying the foundations for the kind of alternative party we need, a party that is truly committed to taking independence, not asking for it.
As soon as Wishart attempted to become Speaker, he lost any lingering credibility as a campaigner for independence. Anyone who purports to stand for Scottish independence should aim to depart that accursed chamber as quickly as possible; if that means destabilising the functions of the house and becoming an utter nuisance in the process, so be it.
The SNP appears to be two parties, not just factions, within the one body. The key players on either side are readily identifiable, but the direction of travel of the the fence-sitters in the near future will be most revealing
I can’t fault your analysis:
“And the current SNP leadership has made it abundantly plain time and time again that it will only act with Westminster’s permission, knowing with absolute certainty that it will be withheld.”
But huge questions remain:
Why?
What’s in it for the leadership if they know they’re losing support and are deliberately acting in ways that encourage loss of support?
Why don’t they want Independence?
Some good posts on here today. It would seem to me that we are all frustrated. No input into life changing decisions. That’s not the Scottish people. We are pragmatic and sensible. Some of the decisions being made seem bizarre. Bunker mentality rules OK?.
@Lenny Hartley at 6:02pm People Scotland (National Records) MURRELL PETER TIERNEY 1964 Ref 685/2 1497 Registration District St Andrew (Edinburgh).
Alasdair MacLean, we do have a political war to win,
I tend to ignore the piranhas in the bowl, and not take my eye of off the prize,
Independence is not a party fight, it is the people’s fight, a fight to have a decent country and to live in peace.
There are serious issues for any country, and who would disagree, except maybe those wanting to control.
@indyfan 6.12pm
Thanks for the link……
…..oh wait…….
Hatuey: “Did anyone see or hear Sturgeon’s song and dance act today, aka the corona briefing?
I only caught the end of her speech but it sounded to me like a goodbye speech.”
Didn’t see it but if so it will be largely because of an evil, cat-stroking, Bath Oliver-munching demagogue who communes (allegedly) with bears in public parks.
I would suggest Wishy Washy would be better employed finding a pantomine gig but even that’ll be out this winter.
Message for Pete W. More of a bullseye rather than bullshit. Way too comfy in their pretendy governance.
Hmm. Very well, if we do replace the SNP leader, who’s next?
SNP members would be thrusting a new First Minister upon Scotland with only six to nine months to establish them before the election. That might be sufficient, but it might not.
The selection pool is effectively down to the 40 or so SNP MSPs not already standing down, unless we want to open the can of worms of having a First Minister who isn’t a MSP. Do you have a nomination?
Excellent analysis and I agree with every word. Murrell.sturgeon have NO intention of going for independence. They enjoy how things are right now.
Both need booted out the party, for the squandering of one golden opportunity after another.
Nicola will tell folk she takes her role as FM very seriously indeed, but here’s the problem, she was elected very, very clearly to keep us in the EU and gain independence. She has attempted neither, and THAT is a direct dereliction of duty to Scotland and the people who elected her and her party.
Section 30 is utter nonsense and just a rather convenient excuse to do nothing.
Then thewir is the utter sh*te of blocking Joanna Cherry from standing for MSP in Edinburgh. Utterly shameful behaviour and let’s never forget, the NEC is lead by Nicola Sturgeon.
At every turn, no matter how you look at things she has betrayed her voters and betrayed the independence movement. She fiddles while Scotland burns, no matter how mant people tell her to change tack, she refuses to listen, cheered on by perhaps one of the most condescending MP’s in the HoC, Pete Wishart.
The whole thing stinks, and she has to go (and her husband). And her wokey beardy friends should be booted out the party too, because they have ZERO interest in independence. They are leeches, sucking the blood out of the party.
We need an SNP leader whol will actually stand up for Scotland and its constitutional rights. We are not a vassal state, we are a country in a union with England, which can be ended anytime we choose. It is time fr the SNP to stop talking and start actually fighting for Scotland – something they should have been doing since 2016.
We want an independence referendum and we want to stay in the EU. You have the votes and the clear democratic mandates, SNP, so get on with it. This is it. This is Scotland’s moment, it is NOW, not next May.
Scotland is getting abused on a daily basis and needs leadership that weill actually stand up for us, rather than just talking about it in conceptual terms.
Ian Brotherhood @ 1.27pm
“who should get hoofed first?”
Either, or Ian,but lets also get rid of the main conduit to wm, Leslie Evans.
Re. some of the comments on wisharts twitter.i come here because if you like it or not, the man gets to the truth,if we had more people in SG with as much conviction as the Rev/Mr Murray have with their work, we,d be independent by now.
Anna Nemus says:
28 September, 2020 at 6:14 pm
As soon as Wishart attempted to become Speaker, he lost any lingering credibility as a campaigner for independence. Anyone who purports to stand for Scottish independence should aim to depart that accursed chamber as quickly as possible; if that means destabilising the functions of the house and becoming an utter nuisance in the process, so be it.
—————————————————————-
That is so true Anna, Pete Wishart is an embarrassment to the independence cause, he is a devolutionist and a British parliamentarian, I believe he holds the distinction of being the longest serving SNP MP a record he’s apparently proud of but to stupid to realise it’s a record he should be utterly ashamed of and his attempt to be speaker of the HOC shows us all clearly where his loyalties lie
Here’s WishyWashy Wishart’s latest attack on WOS & Stu Campbell:
https://archive.is/FSekW
Funny that from Mr Wishart. I remember him well appealing to people to overthrow bad Tories because they don’t care about ordinary folk. He had mouthed them at every question and gave the usual Scotland can do better rhetoric.(in his case)
I wonder if that is where he learned about being a Demagogue. On our doorsteps. Pot, kettle ,etc.
Scrap that- just realised its last years accounts:((
So Wishart is having a go at MacAskill, with his tweet about WOS, lets just say of the two politicians, I know know who I believe who actually wants independence, and its not Wishart.
Funny isn’t it how multi millionaire MPs like Pete Wishart, and aspirant for the job of House of Commons speaker, now sees independence supporters as the enemy.
More Tory than a Tory, more establishment than the establishment, he’s no friend of independence.
Maybe he should do us a favour and stand for an English seat. He’s clearly rattled by observant criticism as his attack on Wings and the Rev shows
Keep it up Rev Stu. Expose him for the sell out merchant that he is. He’s got a very soft underbelly for criticism.
We need a credible LIST-only truly Independence party as an immediate spur for the remaining true-believers in the SNP (the vast majority outside of the leadership – I believe).
We already have one, it’s the ISP.
Pete ‘Wannabe House of Commons Speaker’ Wishart crowing to his pals the Tories (as they sneer and jeer at the humiliation-loving’House Jock’) aboot his cybernat-troll-controlling prowess…just seems to utterly utterly sum up the situation in a microcosm. Hilariously disgusting. Away and fuck off back up Big Ben, Peter, dear boy, seeing as how you love it so much, and don’t ever come back down.
Awaiting the ‘withering put down’ in reply, and laughing as I do. Tally-ho, you bounder, you cad, you footpad, you poltroon! Toodle-pip and poodle-tip!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48118739
The only conclusion I can come to is that NS has been “got at” it can be the only explanation for her dismantling of the SNP.
So our choices are get rid of her, or pursue independence as best we can through other means (Wings party?).
I am no loner involved with the SNP so the only option for me is the latter. Meanwhile if the SNP can somehow get back on track I’d be a happy bunny.
Great article Stu, agree with every word, where would we be without you?
Many thanks.
Mac says @5:09 pm
Would be useful to know who not to vote for ..
Check out #DontVoteWoke campaign on twitter. Divulges the Woki as they emerge!
What a ridiculously vain little man as well. He challenges people to ‘come to his page’ where he ‘will eat them for breakfast’ which apparently amounts to ‘banning them instantly’ while ‘posting a withering response’… it is laughable stuff.
Pete we know you are reading this. You are a clown… a useful one.
“On a seperate issue – I see the SNP accounts are up on the electoral commission website”
No they aren’t.
What is to be made of this?
Daisley says Murrell is bombproof.
https://twitter.com/yona1959/status/1310643072968073216?s=20
Thanks Rev…
You’ve produced an exact summary of my thoughts and opinions of the current state of the SNP.
If anyone asks my opinion on the subject, I’ll simply point them in this direction.
“Why don’t they want Independence?”
Dude, we’ve covered this a LOT ?
To get angry or cry.. both maybe, good article Stu.
I think the only person that can sort this is Alex Salmond. Not by his resurrection, but his revelations which would surely topple the Murrells?
100% agree with the Rev. I am a Fundy and unless we confront and win battles we will stumble on to devolution….gradually whittled away and demoralising the indy movement.
I glanced at Sturgeon’s Twitter account. She’s breathlessly extolling the virtues of some Scottish novel she read aboot the working class, nominated (no chance of winning, just ask James Kelman) for the Booker Prize. I saw that people replied that they had instantly bought it on her recommendation. I have to wonder, half-seriously, if she is ever paid to advertise the books she recommends, to help their sales. Certainly reading some grimy realism novel is the closest she will ever get to the Scottish working class, anyway.
I answered sturgeon on Twitter with regards her post defending women and name who she says get abuse ..also calling anybody who the likes of on this site keyboard warriors..I replied to her that men get abuse to and also told her to get the job done for what she was elected for GETTING INDEPENDENCE DONE..not long after I had females attack me..telling me I have no right to tell Sturgeon anything..I answered back many times.. friends told me they where WOKE..I’d never heard of that before so I basically told them they where keyboard warriors and blocked them..then I answered a Pete Wishart post where he attacked the plan B motion…I asked him why he was against it and if he was just another career politician..he replied ..SLIPPERS ON IM A CARRER BLOCKER and blocked me…ive been voting SNP since 1979..now im fed up with what’s going on..the Alex Salmond set up..the SNP turning into The Scottish feminist party..the hate crime shit..the gender shit..I’ve realized after reading here today they have no interest in independence..we need a complete clear out of Holyrood from the top down..none of them are interested in independence.. ! They are all happy leading us a merry dance .collecting big wages and taking us for fools..another poster was correct..where has Nicola or any of others been at the massive rallys? I wish Alex would come back..I think Angus Brendon McNeil, Chris Mcelveny , Joanna Cherry, and a few others do want independence..its the corrupt ones in Holyrood that need the clear out
Got blocked by Wishart ages ago with many other Yessers, keeping a tally of what he is known as, the list keeps growing, checked the twitter link, no matter how many Yessers he blocks he still doesn’t get a free ride on his posts.
Wisharted
Whiny Wishart
Trougher Pete
Comfy Pete
Pete the Helmet
Wishy, washy Wishart
Pistol Pete
Wishart appears to have become conditioned into the ways of his oppressor, which suggests a deep colonisation of intellect. I had hoped it might be a ploy to camouflage a lethal attack on the British state, but alas, he appears to be have been fully domesticated.
From constitutional to human rights: on the moral structure of international human rights
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/207129976.pdf
The SNP might be the only realistic vehicle we have to achieve independence but should it still be under the current leadership and infested with the rats that infest it now there is nothing on earth could make me vote for them, I’d rather waste my first vote and my list vote is going to ISP either way, I’ve known for a while that 10 others throughout my family are also determined they’ll never vote for them while under the present administration, strangely enough had a message from two others this morning who have cancelled their memberships and are done with the party, I can’t imagine mines is the only family where previously SNP votes will be lost, it’s the reason I’m not taking the polls to heart, if anything should there be no changes made by next year I believe the party is in for a massive shock.
I’m beginning to think Nicola has been a unionist plant all along and the marriage is a cover. The strain is beginning to show on her.
Curious to know what Ms. Spear said in that video that has so many people up in arms.
Here’s a tip for those trying to get a gauge on my psychology, my spelling, grammar and syntax all get a bit ‘rough’ when I’m angry, but also when I’m hungry. 🙂
Cultural and social psychology is strongly shaped by constitutional law. Brexit articulates an approach to the law which supports misogyny, racism, and authoritarianism. So I’d suggest the gradual-ists are endangering Scottish democracy and civic society, by acquiescence with and submitting to Westminster’s ill-founded legal authority. Which simply articulates misogynistic and racist cultural paternalism towards Scotland.
Bibliography on ‘race’, ethnicity, culture and racism
For registrants of the BPC
Developed with the BPC Ethnicity, Culture and Racism Task Group
https://www.bpc.org.uk/download/764/BPC-Bibliography-race-racism-and-ethnicity-.pdf
I have had the feeling that things were not quite right with the “high hied yins” for some time now, reading this item I am convinced of it….thank you for the push, I think I needed it.
Just had a thought. In a recent article on WOS Kenny MacAskill told a story of how there was 2 Tory journalists waiting outside the snp office every night for a certain couple of (unnamed) snp members who would all then troop off for a beverage or five. I wonder if Wishart was one of them hence his dig at MacAskill & Stu? Think i’d put money on that one. Interesting, no?
WhoRattledYourCage says: 28 September, 2020 at 7:27 pm
I glanced at Sturgeon’s Twitter account. She’s breathlessly extolling the virtues of some Scottish novel she read aboot the working class, nominated (no chance of winning, just ask James Kelman) for the Booker Prize. I saw that people replied that they had instantly bought it on her recommendation. I have to wonder, half-seriously, if she is ever paid to advertise the books she recommends, to help their sales. Certainly reading some grimy realism novel is the closest she will ever get to the Scottish working class, anyway.
It has been commented that Nicola Sturgeon the image we see on TV is different from Nicola Sturgeon the person. There is no doubt that she has a very polished and relatable media image.
I am not saying that in a negative way. Politics and image has been gone together since the dawn of time. You just need to look at Caesar to see that this isn’t a new thing. Any politician that wants any chance of success and keep it needs to a carefully cultivated public image and Sturgeon isn’t any different.
The problem is though that the image needs to appeal to a politicians core support as well as thosethat he or she want wants to win over.
Sturgeon didn’t help herself with the tweets at the weekend. Given that she has such a polished image and for the most part hasn’t made any mistakes, I wonder if her twitter account is actually done for her or at least vetted beforehand by somebody media trained? If so, what has happened recently?
Oops, forgotten to put in blockquotes.
It has been commented that Nicola Sturgeon the image we see on TV is different from Nicola Sturgeon the person. There is no doubt that she has a very polished and relatable media image.
I am not saying that in a negative way. Politics and image has been gone together since the dawn of time. You just need to look at Caesar to see that this isn’t a new thing. Any politician that wants any chance of success and keep it needs to a carefully cultivated public image and Sturgeon isn’t any different.
The problem is though that the image needs to appeal to a politicians core support as well as those that he or she want wants to win over.
Sturgeon didn’t help herself with the tweets at the weekend. Given that she has such a polished image and for the most part hasn’t made any mistakes, I wonder if her twitter account is actually done for her or at least vetted beforehand by somebody media trained? If so, what has happened recently?
gordon says: at 2:41 pm
“Slightly off topic but have just seen someone ask on twitter for a list of prospective candidates by constituency and which of these are the beardywokes. Can anyone point me in the right direction, thanks?”
Hi gordon, these few tweet from a few days ago might help as have info on constituencies and candidates.
NB: Some constituencies have only one candidate so are uncontested and they are listed on 2nd link.
https://twitter.com/BlackIslePMD/status/1309587730976960513
https://twitter.com/BlackIslePMD/status/1309588864282099713
Updated here.
https://twitter.com/BlackIslePMD/status/1309958454552023043
Talking of Pete Wishart & Co…
“The term ‘going native’… implies the loss of all objectivity, complete socialisation or immersion into the culture, and probably abandonment of the project”.
(SAGE Key Concepts Series. Key Concepts in Ethnography. O’Reilly, K. 2009. ISBN: 9781412928656)
WhoRattledYourCage says on 28 September, 2020 at 7:51 pm: “Curious to know what Ms. Spear said in that video that has so many people up in arms.”
She boasted of being responsible for the formation of the biggest Yes group of the 2014IndyRef campaign. The name of that large group was ‘Generation Yes’.
Trouble is she did no such thing, it was another young lady and her male colleague. They asked Spears to come in, at a later date, and help promote it but she was not responsible for forming the group.
It was *not* her idea/baby. She was caught taking someone else’s credit. And as far as I know that young lady has been removed from her snp job by the bully Fiona Hyslop over all this.
What Spear video?
Its an interesting article however I’m not sure how realistic it is to oust sturgeon or to have a new party challenge at the next elections.
For Sturgeon to go either something scandalous is going to have run in the press that she can’t get away from or the Party is going to have vote her out. The later isn’t going to happen and for the former well we’ve already had Murrell’s whatsapp messages make the news but barely register. I don’t pretend to be in the know but what other information is still waiting to be declared that will penetrate. Assuming nothing penetrates Sturgeon will win the election with the only question being will she have a majority.
Is Sturgeon did go who is the replacement? Joanna Cherry is capable but she would have to get elected by a party that has a large facion that doesn’t appreciate her. Beyond that I struggle to think of any serious candidate that would alter the party’s direction in any serious way.
On the other hand if we back a new party how does it make enough impact to gain any seats next May or gather enough voters to make the SNP change course as per the Brexit Party and the tories?
To do that would require a figure the disenfranchised Independence voters could get behind and who could also unnerve Sturgeon. That pretty much means it would need to be Alex Salmond.
For Alex Salmond to make a comeback, which I would love to see, would require the truth to come out in a way that makes it clear he was wronged to the general public. The media weren’t fans of Salmond when he was in power and now that a few have attached them to the witch hunt how does he get his message across? Thats a tough ask and to do it in less than 7 months looks impossible.
More realistic option is a Salmond comeback post May 2021 when he has had more time to get his message out and some more Independence voters get frustrated at the lack of progress of the SNP giving him more of a target market.
I think Sturgeon’s plan, if you can call it a plan for Indepedence is that Brexit will be so bad that something will happen without her having to make it happen. She is I believe hoping that her ability for public speaking makes her government look capable and so it will lead to a panicked Scottish public shocked by the disaster of Brexit marching on the UK government premises demanding their Independence. Sturgeon will not break the law as per the Catalonian politicians so she is I think expecting the masses to do it for her.
Its fanciful stuff and the equivalent of betting on the mystery box. However between now and next May its all we realistically have.
Like everyone one here it seems we have been having an internal debate with ourselves for a while. It goes like this…
‘Do we attempt to retake the SNP or is it better to abandon it and start a new party.’
This prick Wishart makes it clear. We take the SNP back.
Seriously are we going to give up on the SNP, write it off and start again because NS was a rat and brought in a bunch of wokeratti arseholes.
Naw. That is not the way we are going out. We have to take it back. They have had help but these woke balloons are weak, thick, pillows. We will rout them at the first challenge.
Let’s start getting stuck into these pricks at every political angle we can think of. They are bullies. And we all know what you do with a bully.
Helen Yates says: 28 September, 2020 at 7:39 pm
While it is understandable to feel anger, frustration and disbelief amongst other emotions towards the SNP leadership, it would be sheer madness for anybody who want independence not to give the SNP their first vote.
Whether you like what individual SNP candidates believe and are helping to collectively push, a first vote not cast for them is helping a unionist get elected in that candidates place.
While the SNP does have the independence movement over the barrel, we have an alternative with list parties who are pro-independence. If enough are elected then they can go into coalition with the SNP and blunt at least part of their woke aspirations for the next parliament, if elections get held next year that is.
Lets just take a collective deep breath, stop for a pause and watch that in getting angry at the SNP that we don’t do any harm with the goal of independence by throwing the baby out with the bath water.
PacMan wrote: “I am not saying that in a negative way. Politics and image has been gone together since the dawn of time. You just need to look at Caesar to see that this isn’t a new thing. Any politician that wants any chance of success and keep it needs to a carefully cultivated public image and Sturgeon isn’t any different.”
I once read a book on ‘Power’ and in that book it spells out in very great detail the importance of ‘image’ and it teaches us that we all have one (an image) whether we like it or not. It goes on to stress how we need to manage the bad as well as the good.
To show proof of its claim about us all having an image whether we like it or not it gives a small experiment for the reader to carry out. It tells you to think of someone you know who isn’t presently with you. Point proven! And that image you hold will either be positive or negative because we hold images even for those we dislike.
‘PacMan says:
‘The problem is though that the image needs to appeal to a politicians core support as well as those that he or she want wants to win over.’
Who says she WANTS to appeal to the Scottish white straight working class, especially men? It’s clear she utterly despises us, wishes we would just go away and die off (see that SNP MSPs now are doing fucking ‘unconscious bias’ training, the latest pseudo-scientific rubbish to escape over the not-high-enough walls of the American lunatic asylum).
Then she and her wee band of deranged wannabe-American nutters could take over and rule the Shiny Happy People Scotland (TM) that the world (read: them) wants and needs. And then they would quite happily only ever meet the (ewww, gross, dude!) Scottish working class in the pages of dirty realist novels, understand nothing, shiver at the end, say “There but for the grace of money and class and breeding and unconscious bias training classes go I”…and put on a cup of organic goatshit tea, with minced dove’s arsehole crackers to go with it.
The FM comes off like she’s trying to be the white Oprah Winfrey. Ms. Winfrey had a book club where she would recommend some shitey middle class ‘worthy’ tome and all her (often white middle class) cultists would eagerly buy it. It’s incredible how (poorly copied) white American middle class some of these SNP dolts come across as, with their Beyonce obsessions and their BLM black power salute Twitter icons (having no real idea what it even means) and their warblings aboot Zen fart-inducing yoga and self-help books and swishing aboot in stylish macrame capes and such utter Guardianista shite.
I saw this decorticated dross first-hand for years in America, and it made me fucking sick. Now we have ostensibly ‘Scottish’ women ‘educated’ way beyond their intelligence levels, jumping on every new flashfloodfad American trend instantly to try to appear au courant. Ironically proving, in the process, that they are nothing but lazy, shiftless awgollygeeshucks yankeedoodledandee wannabes who can’t even be bothered to look beyond a shitty popular culture tsunami from an insane country they are constantly spoonfed. Fucking laughable. Or would be, were it funny.
Sorry, my very conscious biases are showing. 🙂
https://www.fastcompany.com/90515678/science-explains-why-unconscious-bias-training-wont-reduce-workplace-racism-heres-what-will
mike cassidy says on 28 September, 2020 at 8:14 pm: “What Spear video?”
Her snp promo-video for nomination/support to stand as candidate for Argyll & Bute etc.
@Garavelli Princip
http://www.isp.scot note what the i stands for. I’m a member and on the policy committee. We are absolutely and utterly for Independence by whatever democratic route it takes. We are also very much in favour of women’s rights by which we mean people with two X chromosomes which shouldn’t need pointing out but we live times when apparently it does.
We are standing on the List to take those seats the SNP will not because it will have taken all or the vast majoirty of the constituencies so face huge divisors on the List. We will stop unionists getting seats. They attack us just like the SNP do, they know we are coming to deny them seats.
If you want to see the likes of Murdo Fraser, Annie Wells or James Kelly then this is the way to do it. If the idea of a genuinely Yes opposition at Holyrood floats your boat then vote for us and help spread the word and join us if you are so inclined. We will all get to vote on policy, once those of us in the committee have thrashed out what it might be.
WhoRattledYourCage says: 28 September, 2020 at 8:29 pm
I do agree that Sturgeon to have swallowed this American nonsense hook, line and sinker. It wouldn’t surprise me that some internal focus group suggested she did this.
Regardless, this is Scotland we live in, not America. However, the finger can’t be pointed solely to Sturgeon and the SNP because we have had this cultural creep everywhere in our society for the past couple of years and it has intensified over the couple of months with the BLM thing.
I don’t know if this stop but the backlash is starting with the Tory takeover of the BBC and the creation of two right wing TV new channels. It is going to get worse and we are going to have a culture war that has nothing to do with the UK but based on what is happening there. Why don’t the people who peddle this foolishness be honest go the full hog and just develop an American accent?
@laukat
I think you’re off the mark. The current SNP are resigned to a gradualist prospectus that defers indy for at least this Westminster term and the next, and they’re quite happy with it. They won’t state it publicly of course, but it is the inevitable consequence of their current policy. That’ll only change if the ranks and file membership rise up soon and depose Sturgeon and her team: while possible that’s hardly likely.
If big hitters like Salmond and Cherry announced soon they were setting up a “real” independence party, the SNP would lose a big section of its current support in an instant. Sturgeon has no interest in riding to the sunny uplands of independence on the back of a mass movement of horrified post hard brexit voters: she’s no Carme Forcadell. The wet nats are content to be allowed independence: there isn’t a hope in hell they’ll take any meaningful steps to take it.
Assuming however that a new party doesn’t happen either, then the only plausible response for those who don’t support the gradualist prospectus is to advocate for a new party built from the ground up. Realistically that’s no worse a prospect than hoping that the SNP will somehow grow a pair of political bollocks, because that’s about as likely as people being able to change sex.
“Is Sturgeon did go who is the replacement? Joanna Cherry is capable but she would have to get elected by a party that has a large facion that doesn’t appreciate her. Beyond that I struggle to think of any serious candidate that would alter the party’s direction in any serious way.”
The party has widespread and growing support, though that is most probably a function of Scots waking up to the dangers of English Torydum. The FM has managed to successfully punt and sustain a civic agenda towards our self-determination, no matter the lack of policy coherence towards the ultimate goal, and those of global sustainability. This broadening of the party’s political base was necessary, but the political gain is now being undone through a political determination to force Scots law and society to reject a legal respect for the Moral law.
The moral value of our goal is not diminished by those who are unable to follow political and legal practice that is compatible with the Common law. So we just need better party management and a rubber ear towards Scotland’s legal Establishment. Who appear “ambivalent” towards the Natural law and the legal principle of UNIVERSALITY.
Governance,
International Law &
Corporate Social
Responsibility
https://www.usp2030.org/gimi/RessourcePDF.action;jsessionid=9P8VFZph3glwo7GzZqbr9jpLsvZ2ZWrtnFjzLFTBcbg6cw6b4aO6!1883341381?id=33461
Pete Wishart plays in a Commons band with Tories and Liberals. He thinks that’s what we sent him to do.
He has gone native. You don’t fraternise with your political opponents if you want to stay true. It rubs off on you. You inadvertently develop misguided loyalty to your enemies.
Bear in mind that the SNP are not just another party. Not a shade of blue or red. This isn’t an argument about social policy or a difference about economics. That you can just lay to one side.
This is about a nations sovereignty , and it’s right to exist. There should be no chummy parties or hobbies between the SNP and the English parties.
They were sent to break the system, not settle into it. When a prisoner becomes friends with a prison guard , it never ends well.
The Board
Baroness Smith of Gilmorehill: Member of the board of several organisations with interests in Russia and FSU countries. Very influential politically has had a very long career near the top of the British secret services. Widow of the late John Smith, Labour Party Leader.
Catherine Smith: An Advocate. Daughter of Baroness Smith. Vice Chair of JUSTICE Scotland, the Scottish arm of the London NGO. Involved in work promoting the rule of law and human rights in developing democracies and sustainable development in societies in transition.
Craig Oliphant: Senior Adviser at the Foreign Policy Centre, in London. (1)
Stephen Gethins: Former SNP Member of Parliament for North East Fife. Worked with Craig Oliphant in Eastern Europe before entering politics for the SNP.
Craig Oliphant, is a senior member of the Integrity Initiative/Cluster/UK/Inner Core.[1]
And the Integrity Initiative is:
In 2006, NATO Special Advisor Chris Donnelly co-founded a charity, the “Institute for Statecraft and Governance” (IfS) together with Daniel Lafayeedney, a man previously condemned as untrustworthy in business matters by a judge.
The IfS which authored and published articles on threats to NATO imperialism, the biggest being Russia, was registered to a semi-derelict mill in the Fife constituency of Board member and ex-SNP MP Stephen Gethins.
https://caltonjock.com/2019/04/30/the-john-smith-trust-centre-masters-of-propaganda-delivering-the-westminster-unionist-agenda-and-gethins-turns-up-again/
Stoker says: 28 September, 2020 at 8:27 pm
Thanks for that Stoker, very interesting.
I know that we have been turned off by the media trained politicians like Blair, Cameron etc with their moral vacuum and shallowness but image has always been part of politics and as you mention image is essential to success. Therefore, there shouldn’t be any criticism of Sturgeon, the media image.
WRYC 8.29
Now we have ostensibly ‘Scottish’ women ‘educated’ way beyond their intelligence levels
Your biases really are showing, aren’t they?
Glad to see you’ve read up about the s.30 judicial review Stu.
I wrote this comment on Iain Lawson’s blog yesterday:
“The SNP, the SNP – we have all put our trust in them, backed them, invested our votes and belief in them – that they deliver what they promised. We have backed this monolithic structure, and allowed it to happen.
We and the SNP have a massive opposition, the forces of the establishment that have no fear of using whatever tools they have at their disposal (which are all the tools; power, money, media, surveillance etc) to work against us – so the real message doesn’t get out, so people don’t believe that independence is normal, can be done, would be better for us.
The SNP haven’t just been doing nothing for independence in the past few years, they have been actively working against us, they are doing the British establishment job for them, their popularity does not translate as a vote for independence – it translates into support for devolution, for the status quo, because that’s all they stand for now. They pay lip service only to independence to cash in on the hopes and votes of independence supporters.
I hear the mantra ‘there are a lot of good people in the SNP’ and ‘it’s just (!!) the leadership that’s at fault’ – well, sorry, but if you are compliant; you are complicit. The leadership is like that and still there because it is supported. See when people are dying, not just with Covid, I mean things like drug deaths, our poor longevity etc because all we have is this status quo, this devolution, I have no patience any more for the denialism and beliefs that the SNP have some secret plan to save us all – not only do they patently not have any plans, they patently have no intention of enacting any plans put forward to them. The delays to bringing about independence will cause more deaths and more hardship. The only way we will ever reach ‘economic recovery from Covid’ is by becoming independent. To put a caveat on independence, that we get it only after an event that will never happen, is yet another example and speaks volumes to me about how far the SNP is going to go to avoid it. Most people seem to blandly accept these bland sound bites.
It’s like the ‘it’s a power grab’ sound bite: that has become bland and ineffectual and has been used already – to continue to use it for that bonkers internal market bill is pathetic – it is literally going to rip apart all our institutions that we’ve barely managed to hold together all these years. Whinging about it but not doing anything,,, well, that’s our modern SNP isn’t it? ‘A big boy did it and ran away. Wisnae us’. Bland and ineffectual.
The SNP, by corralling us into the one place – reliance on them – to bring about independence, and then acting against our best interests, have done us, and them, a disservice. The leadership have put themselves in this position and have not behaved in a manner that suggests they are aware of the forces arrayed against them. Glasgow city council – what high hopes we had, but now worn down. Too many expectations on our part?
In conversation yesterday (I occasionally talk to real live people) – I was met with some of the usual things that folk bandy about – we should have 60% vote for yes to ‘be very sure’ – eh?, says I, where does this 60% come from (various excuses about vague ‘it’s accepted internationally’ – no it isn’t, that’s not how countries normally get independence – etc) – and why would we want to go down some route of moral purity when we have centuries of propaganda to contend with, we have government’s arrayed against us with no qualms about acting illegally (the vow e.g) – people will be told they’ll lose their pension, when they won’t – why wait to achieve a mythical 60%, spending time and effort convincing people they are being lied to when we know for absolute certain they are. 50% + 1. That’s all I want, and all I expect. What we DO need, is the political will and force to enact it. That is all that is missing at this point in time.
Also in conversation I got the ‘we can’t have a referendum during covid’ (well, Covid ain’t ever going away, diseases rarely just disappear, but the pandemic will end at some point). My point was on timing – and not taking the moral purity stance, that the fear surrounding Brexit is the best we can hope for for a large number of easy votes in favour of independence – let’s use that, lets cash in on that. Excuses that we can’t ‘campaign properly’ (properly? Oh-oh, do I detect moral purity creeping in again?) during Covid,,,
So then I’m asked how would I vote in the election: what election, asks I? The May election, I’m told. What makes you think there will be one, asks I? What do you mean, I’m asked in confusion. Well, I said, you’ve just told me there can’t be a referendum because of Covid, and Covid won’t be gone in May next year, so why would they hold an election if it can’t be done?
I think, perhaps, people aren’t thinking things through for themselves. Where is the logic? A referendum is a vote, same kind of set-up needed as for any election. People are repeating sound bites and mantra phrases,,, 60% is a made up figure, all the excuses – that’s all I hear are excuses about why we can’t do this or that to gain independence – are excuses to wriggle out of actually doing it. I want to hear independence supporters discussing what CAN be done, how we CAN do it, instead of repeating all those excuses – and that’s the SNP that are peddling them (s.30 ones included) – what are the solutions? I want to hear people thinking for themselves instead of relying on constant negative excuses that are spoon fed to us. Yes, there are obstacles, lots of them – so, let’s find a way round them.
To be frank, I’ve never thought of Nicola Sturgeon as particularly capable – has the skills required – to drive and negotiate our independence, but if her popularity and the skills she does have (speeches, debating, good acting) bring on independence I’d be happy, because there are lots of capable people in the SNP to actually do the hard lifting, if she were to appoint people based on skill. I have yet to see her negotiate her way out of a paper bag herself – if anyone has evidence to the contrary let me know, I could have missed something. She doesn’t appear to be inclined to appoint people based on skills either by the looks of things. And I think negotiation will be sorely needed between a vote and setting ourselves up. If she isn’t even going to drive us towards getting that vote,,, meh.
Thanks for your article Iain, and I have noted there are some rumblings from activists within the SNP taking action so maybe things will get ,,, sorted. Sometime. We have all invested so much into the SNP – whether that’s time, money, belief or votes (or all of these) – it would be the best option if the SNP survived in some capacity. The thought of having to start over again from scratch ,,,
But – we CAN do it, if needed.”
Well – I thought it was worth posting again for your delectation.
But you know what, on further thought – I mean, the SNP are putting up candidates that don’t even vocally support independence and expecting them to win?? They are living in a fantasy land. – fuck em, they should go; the SNP has been the party of independence since its inception, if you have no belief in independence, go find or found you own party. The SNP will continue.
The SNP leadership are delaying – that’s the biggest problem right now – delaying action on most things but in particular the harassment committee inquiry (withholding evidence etc). It is possible Nicola Sturgeon could have to step down if she is found to have been lying to parliament – I believe the Ministerial Code demands it, rather than any need for votes of no confidence. Why the delay? The only reason I can see is so that her disgrace has the worst impact on the Holyrood elections – the MSM are holding back on all the juicy stuff to have the biggest negative impact on the SNP during election time, and so on our hopes for independence.
We need it speeded up,,, force their hands.
Mike Cassidy @ 8.14 pm
Here’s the link to the R Spears video from her twitter, I haven’t watched it myself as I wouldn’t give her the time of day .
https://twitter.com/RhiannonV/status/1309164908559429642?s=20
Andy Ellis.
That’s two posts today when I have agreed with each and every word.
For me, that’s saying something.
@Helen Yates says:
28 September, 2020 at 7:14 pm
“We need a credible LIST-only truly Independence party as an immediate spur for the remaining true-believers in the SNP (the vast majority outside of the leadership – I believe).
We already have one, it’s the ISP.”
Just make sure that suitable candidates are selected. As well as being pro-independence, they must be able to display the right attributes to undertake the role of an MSP, and have a solid background. No social media skeletons in the closet.
If there is a delay in the Scot Parly elections until December 21 as commented on above, this might work in favour of the ISP, as it would give them more time to get some solid organisation in place. At the moment, most people have not heard of them.
The Rhiannon Spear promo video
https://twitter.com/RhiannonV/status/1309164908559429642
The controversy is her lie about founding ‘Generation Yes’
https://twitter.com/Kirst_Thornton/status/1309254902548516864
‘mike cassidy says:
28 September, 2020 at 8:51 pm
WRYC 8.29
Now we have ostensibly ‘Scottish’ women ‘educated’ way beyond their intelligence levels
Your biases really are showing, aren’t they?’
Yes. And I very clearly state it. I am no diplomat, I’m not looking to get elected, I can say what I want. I am talking about a very specific sub-genus of the young Scottish SNP, of whatever sex, really. It’s all the same ball of shite. They are (wittingly or unwittingly) destroying the SNP and our chances of independence with their pissing aboot in the American sandpit with this utter shite for morons. I have absolutely zero time for it. Zero.
How cum Spear has to get elected and not just get parachuted in as a regional list MSP,
and if Spear doesn`t get nominated to represent A&B can Spear still become an MSP through list.
MaggieC says: 28 September, 2020 at 8:51 pm
Is it just me or does her accent change when she starts talking about her candidature for Argyll and Bute?
Personally words spoken and actions are more important than accents but it is a bit off putting when people pop in an out of their current and native accents.
‘PacMan says:
Why don’t the people who peddle this foolishness be honest go the full hog and just develop an American accent?’
Because they’re so stupid they don’t even know they HAVE developed an American accent and American thought processes. But they definitely have done so. The intersectionalist arseholery is their accent, the deranged, mentally challenged, fundamentally erroneous way they communicate and try to ‘educate,’ like we’re all fucking racist sexist homophobic chicken-molesting halfwits who need nutters telling us what to think and say and do. It’s, so, like, awesome, dude! Get with the modern American illness programme or be, like, a everyfuckingthingphobe, Scotty! (Laughing here)
I wonder whether the reaction to the recent restrictions has startled NS and caused this weird mini-meltdown? For the first time the trendy, young section of Scottish society is furious with her. She might be too used to adulation.
I hope this doesn’t sound like gloating, it’s just a possible explanation.
Scotland is quickly being colonised by English emmigration. Scottish independence will be a dead duck in 5 years time population wise. Sorry but that’s the truth.
@ Stoker at 8.03
Don’t think so; Wishart has always been at Westminster, and this is talking about MSPs, in the period before the construction of the current Parliament at Holyrood.
Also, it wasn’t Kenny MacAskill, but Campbell Martin, who told the story – here:
https://campbellmartin.blogspot.com/2020/09/british-spies-in-snp.html
(4th paragraph from the bottom).
WhoRattledYourCag
You’re simply hostile towards stuff you lack knowledge of, which isn’t as good look frankly, and betrays a latent sexism in your outlook. Which appears to be one that supports cultural parochialism. Just my opinion. 😉
Muscleguy 8.33pm
You are promoting this ISP party a lot, and since you are on the policy committee, perhaps you can enlighten me as to why they don’t bother to reply to emails? Some of us, feeling currently disenfranchised, want to find out a bit more about the people who have set this new party up? And to judge whether they might deserve our votes. After all, it is we disillusioned previously-snp supporters and activists, complete with votes, who would be most likely to become isp voters.
My reaction to my email query being ignored, I don’t mind saying, is to now dismiss this party as a bunch of careerists seeking to jump on the Holyrood gravy train with the least effort possible. They certainly don’t show any interest in the views of prospective voters/supporters/activists.
This is important, I believe, because my opinion is that the best way forward is to agitate to get rid of the Murrells and with them, their wokistazi clique. Then, to give all the remaining snp politicians a really good hard hoof up the hole to get them busying themselves in working hard towards indy before it becomes too late. Which isn’t far away. And that hoof needs to come from a second indy party being voted in on the list, as well as withdrawal of funds and active support till they, (snp politicians) remove their digits from said holes. Therein lies the problem that there is not a lot of time to establish such a new party in time for the HE if it happens next May. There are no big names to support the ISP at present, so it will be very hard for them to even register in voters’ minds unless they recruit a well-known face. Hence it seems really quite lazy and not very intelligent to ignore prospective voters and their views at this early stage in the creation of the new party. What the ISP need to get their heads round is that many of us are sick to the back teeth of having our views and hopes and wishes ignored, we have dreams of a better country, we have worked and waited for that better country for lifetimes, and we are not going to be taken in by more of the same old.
Mike , Scotland has been culturally colonised for years.
You only have to listen to Radio Scotland. This is supposed to be Scotland’s people’s radio station. Yet whenever they need an expert they turn to an English expert. Whenever there is a box pop, it’s usually 3 to 1 English voices. The heads of this and that are English.
Our islands are largely run by English incomes. Our institutions, universities, arts, media. For only having 10% of the population. The English have already managed to take over our voices.
Big jock, very hard to break the 300 yrs + brain washing. (Celtic and rangers) gave them a big leg up there. Even my non political English wife thought nicola would have delivered indy by now on the back of Brexit. But as others on here have said, they obviously have something on her and murrell.
A Person: interesting conjecture. She loves playing the wacky, permissive, critically acclaimed-and-adored older auntie to her extended rainbow family. Chuckling.
I watched that Spear video. Interesting exercise in narcissism, though I do tend to think that decrying somebody as narcissistic is kind of academic in the modern, media-saturated world. Rainbow flag clearly on display to show her allegiances, right, okay, expect that. Bookcase on the right to make us think she reads a lot. There was a photay of her recently in the media standing in front of a bookshelf displaying a lot of tomes on war in Syria. She doesn’t exactly strike me as the Syrian-war-aficionado type, though I suppose you never know.
I did like the fact she started out by trying to impress people watching the video by listing telly programmes (sorry, shows, showing my age there) she has worked in like :
Location, Location, Location – reality telly sell-a-home slop.
The Big Questions – religious telly.
Fifteen to One – quiz show.
Note that none of the ones she mentioned has any kind of political dimension whatsoever, though maybe a more thorough perusal of her CV might refute that. They’re all populist pap pablum, really, so basically she was a gun-for-hire. Nothing wrong with that. She also worked for Frankie Boyle. Too controversial for the islanders she wants to woo politically? The appeal first and foremost to their populist telly-guzzling sensibilities was very telling, though. Chuckling.
Says she founded Generation Yes. Disputed. Okay, fine, whatever. The wee misandrist has been claiming this for a while (and, as usual, us horrible white men are to blame for all the world’s ills):
heraldscotland.com/opinion/16399128.rhiannon-spear-loud-white-men-must-get-times-risk-losing-us-support-independence/
Says she’s been convenor of the notoriously reactionary YSI for two years. She doesn’t even elaborate on what the acronym might mean for people who might not know. Is the viewer (I know, I am not the target audience, and never will be) meant to be impressed by this reputation-precedes reference?
Of course, she had to include the short-woman-syndrome phrase “A world leader in this area” at some point. Magic! Chuckling here.
“I am a councillor in Glasgow, and understand the importance of the relationship between Councillors (her capitalisation), MSPs, and MPs which will be crucial as we move into an independence referendum, but also the local government elections in 2022.” Interesting statement. Nowhere during this video are the electorate actually physically mentioned. At all. There is no sense of any wider communal engagement in this video, which, as befits somebody seeking political election, a list of her achievements, but it’s clear she enjoys making often-female-based policies in her own manhater image, and wants to dig her teeth into the party for the foreseeable. I do get that this does not seem to be for the consumption of the wider general public, really it’s more (internecine) party political though it’s presented on a public forum.
She mentions digital connectivity, “which is important now more than ever in a post-COVID world.” Did I miss something here? When did the pandemic stop?
“I really look forward to speaking with you…” American use of speaking ‘with’ you instead of ‘to’ you. Tiny linguistics detail, but I’m a crank for this sort of stuff, so (chuckling) what can I say?
“Let’s keep Argyll and Bute independent, and onwards to an independent Scotland.” I like that her subtitles add ‘move before ‘onwards’ post-taping, to make it more grammatically correct.
I dunno, I really don’t care anymore. This sort of stuff has gotten way beyond tiring. I have absolutely nothing against Ms. Spear (good luck to her with her new baby), or even any of these other young starryeyed staryeyed faux-American zealots, and find their delusion and transatlantic brainwashing quite sad. You can’t even truly get angry anymore about this. Getting angry aboot all these people is like getting angry at an amoeba, or something unicellular and non-sentient and hardly responsible for its actions. The world is fucked, and this is just yet another schismatic tragic symptom of all this and that.
Celtic vs Rangers thereon lies the problem. Ask Orkney or Shetland or anybody that lives on the East Coast or Highlands. The SNP have to govern for the whole of Scotland. We are govern for Govan. End of.
As a long term contributor and critic of Sturgeon’s SNP, I have been awaiting for the Rev’s current take on the impending implosion about to take place with the SNP ‘leadership’.
I agree with his article…apart from the constitutional requirement that critical disengagement with the corrupt and bogus ‘UK’ must be the withdrawal of our Sovereign Representatives in the Parliament at Westminster. It must start there and a Declaration of Intent to start the dissolution of the Union. The Holyrood talking shop can seek legitimacy with the English legal overlords if it likes, but the real refusal to collaborate and creation of the New Scotland starts at exiting W/M.
And then only if the Pete Wisharts and fellow travellers refuse to do this then a caucus of true nationalists, politicians and civil leaders will have to make the declaration from Holyrood instead.
Laukat’s (@ 8.14 )analysis is correct: a takeover by Joanne Cherry is unlikely and the paucity of choice beyond her and Whiteford is staggering; a divided SNP competing against each other in May will be disastrous; Alec Salmond is toxic to many ‘new covid recruits’ and does not have the time , energy? and money; and Brexit is an unknown disaster which could involve anything from Direct Rule to and including open disorder across the UK.
The absolute necessity is a sustained campaign to drive the Murrells and their acolytes out, rescue the SNP/Movement back to Indy or bust via a plebiscite. And this must occur within 7 months. Time is against us..but events are conspiring to prevent us with Johnson’s nascent facist state emerging daily..The problem is: who is fearless, strong and savvy enough to lead us?
@Mike d says:
28 September, 2020 at 9:24 pm
“Scotland is quickly being colonised by English emmigration. Scottish independence will be a dead duck in 5 years time population wise. Sorry but that’s the truth.”
Bollocks.
For the record, I personally know four people who were born in England and have lived here at least 20 years, one of whom is a close relative. Not a single one of them is against independence.
I think you’ve got Braveheart “we’ll breed them out” on the brain.
Norway count the votes manually in all elections; with separate papers for each party.
The voter put it into an envelope. This single envelope is then publicly dropped into the voting box.
Afterwords it is publicly opened and counted, manually, twice.
Postal votes cannot be as secure, but the problem is reduced by the election day voting taking precedent, and by the public and transparent nature of the election system i Norway.
It is extremely important that the election is genuine. I’m horrified by the rapid decline in trustworthiness of elections around the world.
I’m aware that election officers in Britain reported that they were certain that the official result from their district were incorrect, but I don’t know the details, just that they simultaneously went mum.
Nomination or Election;
It is absolutely imperative to make sure the reported result match the votes.
Or it is all for naught.
Big Jock @ 9.36
Spot on re the cultural and linguistic (Anglophone) imperialism imposed on Scots, which Hechter (1998) suggested led to an ‘ethnic division of labour’ in the ‘internal colonialism model’. All discussed at length in my book ‘Doun-Hauden’ (‘Oppression’).
On the matter of decolonisation (ie independence) globally:
– no other British colony required a ‘Section 30’ from Westminster for independence
– most colonies did not require a referendum which, as a matter or law, is not a requirement for independence either
– most colonies were not even signatory to a Treaty (of Union) enabling them to lawfully withdraw from any such union under international law
– the fact is independence is in general inevitable once a Nationalist majority is elected to the national assembly
Scotland is therefore already arguably de facto independent given Nationalist majorities have been elected (now on numerous occasions). Unfortunately for the independence movement, Scotland’s Nationalist majorities appear to prefer the status quo, ie colonialism and its resulting oppressions.
Beaker, blah blah blah blah. You cant argue with statistics you prat.
Here some practical knowledge that might be applicable to our situation. 😉
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1057/9780230288331_5
Beaker: you’re talking bollocks: 72% RUK voted against Independence in 2014…lowest ‘Scottish Identification’ in ‘settled’ areas: Highlands; Perthshire; Borders; Edinburgh; Aberdeen etc.
The Brits succeeded in fucking up Ulster..the most ‘Irish’ part of the Island of Ireland, via the ‘Plantation’. We’ve been experiencing a new ‘Plantation’ for 40 years and the numbers will eventually tip the balance.
It’s IDENTITY stupid not fucking Braveheart!
‘For the record, I personally know four people who were born in England and have lived here at least 20 years, one of whom is a close relative. Not a single one of them is against independence’
Well fucking whoopdie do, I personally have met and know dozens of RUK who voted ‘no’ AND WILL AGAIN…It’s called IMPERIALISM.
Beaker, I personally know 2 families who have moved back here to England, who gleefully told me they voted no in 2014. So GYTF
P.S. Support for genderwoowoo in law is inescapably racist social practice, as it supports a legal psychology that is blind to logic and phenomenology, so articulates a perverted form of western, Christian, liberalism. This is simply incompatible with a critical approach towards multi-cultural tolerance and social harmony. 🙁
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw9oX-kZ_9k&ab_channel=UkarauF.Kakepare
Alex Salmond will never lead the SNP again, his time is over, he’s yesterdays man. At best, he’d become a SPAD but that’s about it.
I don’t get the fuss about Joanne Cherry. OK, she won a legal case against the UK government last year but then any competent lawyer have done the same. What has Joanne Cherry done to display her leadership qualities? Let’s face it, she’s pretty anonymous.
There is nobody within the SNP that you can look at and say ‘that’s a leader in the making’ and this is the SNP conundrum.
Sturgeon has no serious challengers to her leadership and even if there were, the backing that she gets from the UK media would ensure that the challenge was defeated before it even began.
The SNP as a body has no challenge to its position in Scottish politics. There is no alternative to the SNP in Scotland, it’s essentially a one party state.
I’ve said it before and I think it bears repeating. We need the English to help deliver independence for Scotland. The way it stands just now, we’re in no position to do it for ourselves.
The way forward might be for a radical English party to field candidates in Scotland. In return for a guarantee of independence or at least a referendum, we’d give them our support instead of the SNP.
Something radical has to happen to break the current political deadlock in Scotland.
We have to start thinking outside the parochial box, however unpalatable it may seem.
WRYC. I think you know what we’re talking about.
WRYC, unless your one of those scots who stick their head up their arse.
Several posts recommend using social media to counter harm done to the independence movement. You may, but shadow-banning, deplatforming, and other nastiness will follow for anything that works. We can know because it is already happening.
Interestingly Craig Murray rapports gradual shadow-banning, with fewer articles reaching readers for important articles. Instead of just all or nothing.
Do not trust social media, and do not trust Google and the other search engines.
I’m suggesting the party is now being run by a bunch of rather unsavory characters, who’s ideological naivety or malice poses a serious threat to open democracy in Scotland. And our judiciary are either “ambivalent” towards the workings of the Common law and its’ relationship with Scots law, or are part of the project to deny its’ justice to Scots.
https://www.degruyter.com/view/journals/mopp/3/2/article-p247.xml?language=en
This seems like a genuine move, AFAI can judge from the thread
the SNP are being taken to court over the NEC decision to effectively debar Joanna Cherry and others standing for Holyrood on the basis it broke the Constitution and Standing Orders
https://mobile.twitter.com/ILawson27/status/1310136027915452416
Mist001. A radical English party standing in Scotland to guarantee us independence or at least a referendum.??? Are you taking the piss?
PacMan @ 9.05 pm
As I said in my earlier post I’ve not watched the the R Spear video as she’s has the post of the Snp Women’s officer but you have to be the right sort of “ woman “ to get her support .
Beaker @ 10.03
It is people who vote, hence demographics is a key determinant of independence, and indeed this topic justified a whole chapter in by book ‘Doun-Hauden’. The census tells us that approx on average 50,000 people from rest-UK make the move to Scotland each year; that is half a million people every 10 years and some one million since Holyrood was established. Voting intention surveys and post referendum research confirmed this group to be the most strongly opposed to Scottish independence (over 70%). Historic census data indicates that the rest-UK population resident in Scotland (incl rest-UK ‘extraction’) may now be at least between 1 and 2 million people, and also worth noting the mass displacement of Scots over much of the union period. In other words around half the ‘No’ vote (1 million) comprised people from rest-UK, which in census and colonial terminology may be defined as ‘settlers’. This also fits with Scotland’s national election results where unionist parties are winning seats in constituencies which have a higher ‘rest-UK’ resident population. It can therefore be reasonably argued that a large and growing rest-UK population in Scotland accounting for perhaps as much as 50% of the No vote helped to block Scottish independence in 2014, and may do so again. In addition it does not help the cause of independence that the irregular Scottish ‘national’ franchise is similar to a local council franchise in other countries, i.e resident-based rather than ‘national’ based (e.g. parental descent).
Another related conclusion from relevant studies is that peoples’ seeking or/opposed to self-determination tend to be divided linguistically (e.g. Francophone/Anglophone in Quebec; Catalonia, N. Ireland etc) and a linguistic divide (i.e. Scots/ Anglophone) arguably prevails in Scotland’s case; most yessers being Scots speakers, whilst a far higher % of ‘No’ voters are Anglophone. Language (and culture) of course form the basis of (national) identity and sense of belonging, this playing a decisive role in any Yes/No decision on Scotland’s nationhood.
At least some good news , After Jo Swinson claimed that she would be Prime Minister at last years elections I see that she is not going to stand for the Holyrood Elections . HURRAY . She’s now got a nice cushy number as a visiting professor . She was useless as a mp for her constituency and all in East Dunbartonshire worked bloody hard to get rid of her . Willie Rennie will be upset tonight as he was desperate for her to stand next year .
From the National “ Jo Swinson will not be standing in next years elections at Holyrood ,
https://archive.vn/nY5qh
For a little light relief before bed
Cancel culture thirty years ago
The long-lost Hitler sitcom that caused outrage
https://archive.is/K2nJT
And if you can’t sleep
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf9jJx0NSjw
It’s a simple fact that courts, especially the court of session don’t rule on hypothetical issues.
If there was a bill before parliament that’s one thing, but you can’t appear before a judge asking “if we did this thing we were thinking about, would that be ok?”
When will Pete Wishart cross the aisle and join the Tories, he’s already halfway there.
That speakers job is quite tempting.. or??
If you’ve ever seen the scarily prophetic 1976 film about television ‘Network’
Then here is Channel 4’s Jon Snow going full Peter Finch
I wonder if it’ll cost him his job
https://twitter.com/JamesCopley_/status/1310689361579696134
Re tomorrow’s Harassment and Complaints Committee meeting ,I see by the agenda it’s another meeting in private .
https://www.parliament.scot/HarassmentComplaintsCommittee/Agenda(1).pdf
Letter sent from John Swinney to the committee where he says that the Scottish Government have released another 127 pages of documents to the committee , no doubt this is what they’ll be reviewing at the meeting ,
https://www.parliament.scot/HarassmentComplaintsCommittee/Letter_from_the_Deputy_First_Minister_-_21_Sep_2020.pdf
Detailed chronology of Scottish Government participation in the judicial review given on 21st September ,
https://www.parliament.scot/HarassmentComplaintsCommittee/SP_committee_-_JR_-_detailed_chronology_-_21_Sep_2020.pdf
@polly 1.43 pm
SNP leadership can ignore limitless amount of email and snail mail. And it would be as if it were never sent. Just as it ignores members.
@Kevin Kennedy 2.01 pm
Marches/rallys is still the most efficient tool for independence. That’s probably why the SNP incarcerated the organizer. And now there is the Covid-19.
A large amount of people physically meeting could cause exchange of knowledge, and abrupt changes in voting habits even. Did SNP quench democracy?
Fancy a peek at what we are up against, from a post-colonial perspective anyway?
https://www.compas.ox.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/WP-2005-014-Grillo_Diversity_European_Cities.pdf
Cornton Road, Bridge of Allan
27 December 2018, 11.10pm
Has any newspaper ever disclosed who was driving the Land Rover?
Accidental findings in The Company’s filings:
search term= location:”FK9″
refine= location:”EH8 8PJ”
The Rev has got to be the most committed and effective fighter for Independence.
Here are the 47 currently sitting SNP MSPs presumed to be standing next year:
Adam, George
Adamson, Clare
Allan, Alasdair
Arthur, Tom
Beattie, Colin
Brown, Keith
Coffey, Willie
Constance, Angela
Denham, Ash
Dey, Graeme
Doris, Bob
Dornan, James
Ewing, Fergus
Ewing, Annabelle
FitzPatrick, Joe
Forbes, Kate
Gibson, Kenneth
Gilruth, Jenny
Gougeon, Mairi
Grahame, Christine
Harper, Emma
Haughey, Clare
Hepburn, Jamie
Hyslop, Fiona
Kidd, Bill
Lochhead, Richard
MacDonald, Gordon
MacGregor, Fulton
Mackay, Rona
Macpherson, Ben
Maguire, Ruth
Martin, Gillian
Mason, John
Matheson, Michael
McAlpine, Joan
McKee, Ivan
McKelvie, Christina
McMillan, Stuart
Robison, Shona
Somerville, Shirley-Anne
Stewart, Kevin
Sturgeon, Nicola
Swinney, John
Todd, Maree
Torrance, David
Wheelhouse, Paul
Yousaf, Humza
Out of that lot, I would have favoured Humza Yousaf. But given that he holds the Justice brief, I suspect you would rule him out.
Adding MPs(or councillors) to the list would be problematic in that it undoes the self-inflicted damage of the Tories appointing DRoss as leader(mitigable by actually having a leadership election). Parachuting an unelected person into the office of the First Minister is borderline insane. Who could handle that?
Alf @ 10:51
Good to see a old warrior return
Anyway agree the 2014 vote YES would have won , if it had been restricted to Scottish by birth its easily proven both by the result and by the ease of confirmation (i.e.) birth Certificate and current place of residence ,
I don’t think any other country in the world would allow what are essentially immigrants to determine their countries future , my brother in law lives in Thailand he can’t buy property in his name or vote in their elections , my Sister in law lives in California same position until she applies or is granted citizenship by becoming an American citizen ,even then I believe a time element is involved length of residence being the main one
If you want to see a nation disappear just assimilate the indigenous people , alter their culture by appointing and putting in place people from a different nation and mindset , all the top positions in Scotland are filled by people who don’t speak like Scots have not been born in Scotland so it’s obvious they would want to change things to suit their country of origin.
So Jocks are way down the pecking order when it comes to important decisions even to hiring new staff , example being Civil Servants at the current Holyrood inquiry you would be hard pushed to detect a Scottish accent , I imagine it’s only human nature and in the same situation most of us would do the same as they are doing
welcoming their own .
There’s wheens of Scottish schools that turn out kids armed with plumy, Anglicised, ascents. So I’d suggest accent is not a particularly good indicator of political prejudice, though it does suggest limited real life connection with the harder side of life. Subsequently, this can be expected to undermine empathy for the less fortunate, though it’s no grantee the individual is prone to Torydum.
A Study of the Concept of Prejudice with Particular
Reference to Geography Education
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/33677667.pdf
I agree Robert Graham @12:17. We are a colonized people at the moment and everyone’s culture is more worthy than ours.
Rev kept the juiciest best bit for the last paragraph;
“It’s our belief that the leadership cannot and will not survive until next May… It’s also our belief that they know that.”
I read a bunch of tweets from the usual loyalist types supporting Pete Wishart today in his attack on Wings. I suspect there’s a lot of dishonesty and denial in what they say but maybe we should give them the benefit of the doubt and just assume they are dumb.
But, surely, they must know the game’s up. The leadership absolutely know that, as the quotation suggests.
The only way the SNP leadership can avoid stepping down, when you think about it, is by resorting to even more underhand tactics, and going down that road has serious implications – not just for the SNP and politics, but for the whole system of Government and law in this country.
To tell the truth, I don’t know what would be more satisfying; an ignominious dismantling of the SNP leadership or watching them trash the whole system just to keep their selfish snouts in the trough.
For the independence movement this is going to be a positive, healing, and energising process. Boris might intervene with some Stormont-styled closure of HolyRaj but that would only strengthen resolve and hasten progress towards independence.
Someone posted a tweet under Nicola Sturgeon. Included in it was the phrase:
“the blogger who shall not be named”
Lord Voldermort?
Or perhaps “Hastur” – say his name three times and there will be… trouble 🙂
“the blogger who shall not be named”
They want to drench everything in nastiness. It’s policy; frame everything in the context of standing up to nasty vile cybernat keyboard warriors.
The obvious goal is to distract and divert attention from the very serious issues that Wings is drawing attention to.
It won’t work.
@ Polly 2.42pm and James Che I put forward a proposition for a individual declaration from voters to tell NS and the SNP that I would NOT vote for them in ANY forthcoming elections unless and until NS removed the GRA and HCB from policies to be considered and until she stated categorically and publicly a date for a new indy ref, this was to be posted to my MP ,MSP and NS
I approached SC for permission to upload the declaration to enable people to individually download and sign it as their own declaration but didn’t hear back, and quite honestly I think it is well beyond that stage now
Juteman @ 4.09pm
I will piss myself laughing if Sturgeon announces that the Holyrood vote will be a vote for Indy as Westminster is refusing a Sec30.
————————————-
If Sturgeon did announce that it would show how effective indy supporters unrest and WOS posts have been, but I will say don’t buy the tena males just yet
Lochside says:
28 September, 2020 at 10:00 pm
…..Laukat’s (@ 8.14 )analysis is correct: a takeover by Joanne Cherry is unlikely and the paucity of choice beyond her and Whiteford is staggering; a divided SNP competing against each other in May will be disastrous; Alec Salmond is toxic to many ‘new covid recruits’ and does not have the time , energy? and money; and Brexit is an unknown disaster which could involve anything from Direct Rule to and including open disorder across the UK.
I suppose that’s true, but internal SNP popularity aside, I think Joanna Cherry would still be a safe pair of hands in Constitutional terms, and would either deliver “technical” Independence by legal distinction and only needing democratic ratification, or even at a minimum, I think she would buy Scotland more time to sort itself out and undo the damage to the SNP and chronic lethargy suffered under Sturgeon.
Joanna Cherry as Leader but MP rather than MSP still leaves Holyrood in need of a First Minister, and between those tainted by Sturgeon’s legacy and those MSP’s stepping down, there’s slim Pickens for choice…
But! If Joanna Cherry really hit the ground running with Constitutional Independence and Sovereignty, the current landscape of having MP’s and MSP’s would very quickly be an obsolete doctrine, because neither Holyrood nor Westminster would exist or operate as they currently do. Scotland would have one seat of Government, not two. It might mean a bit of a white knuckle ride for a few weeks, but if it means the end of the Union, buckle up and hold on to something.
Depending how cynical you want to be about Nicola Sturgeon, you might assume it’s no accident that we have no obvious successor, but then, if people have lost faith in Sturgeon, then her preferred successor would hardly be an automatic choice anyway. It’s a proper mess.
Pity it has come to this, but the warning bells have been ringing for a long time. Rev Stu has been asking people to think the unthinkable for a long time, and that’s not a pleasant experience for some people when it brings their faith and optimism crashing down to Earth, but the SNP under Sturgeon has lost it’s way, and most people know it, even if some refuse to admit it. Whatever has gone wrong needs fixed, because our current trajectory is dismal.
I also think people get riled up about Wishart unnecessarily. He actually reminds me of George Galloway. He exists in a world of his own, he’s articulate-ish, but nobody sensible takes him seriously because whatever good he might be capable of, needs to be offset against him being a bit thick, a Maverick liability, and an outspoken loose cannon who doesn’t know when to shut up and stop drawing attention to himself.
Labour MP attacks the Tories horrific management of the Civid crisis.
Lib Dem Leader attacks the incompetent Tory handling of the Covid Crisis.
The 3rd largest Westminster Party says support Trans & Spears??
@Effijy (5.40) –
And just to make up the full set, here’s a Tory attacking the Tories’ horrific and incompetent management of the Covid crisis –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqIYDTIdg2o&ab_channel=ProductiehuisEU
CBB @ 12.31
Scotland has rather a segregated school system, which perpetuates a privileged elite meritocracy (Elitist Scotland? Report 2015) that is mostly unionist and tends to be more Anglophone than Scots speaking. On the subject of “plumy, Anglicised, ascents” check out the Tory benches at Holyrood, or witnesses at Holyrood committees most days. Scotland’s meritocracy is Anglophone and therefore reflects the colonial reality as well as an ethnic division of labour.
You can’t buy Scottish vegetables in supermarkets in Scotland only British, we can’t hear Scottish news in Scotland, all the experts as one person said are english, it’s not Scotland anymore it’s north britain, Scots people voted to stay in Europe but we forgot Scottish votes don’t count, Scottish history is non existent, has the Scottish race ever existed? are none of this SNP politicians who got into Holyrood and westminster to push for independence ever going to show some pith, what an absolutely bunch of money grabbers, the 21st century and we still have to beg our neighbors for our own money back, no media, no powers, no borrowing, no money, no fight, the politicians seem more interested in allowing men into ladies toilets than fighting to end the union, nae wonder real Scots are pissed of just now.
The subtle difference between AS leadership & NS is that Alex led us to a Indy Referendum
Wee Nic is leading people down the garden path to obscurity.
Cant get the faithful who can’t see that they are getting played for fools.
I reckon the Tories have more chance of holding a Ref 1st so that they can nail the issue long term and call the current SNP’s bluff !
Oh great.
Stoking up more division in the lead up to an independence vote.
A split vote is exactly what we do not need.
Historically as a nation Scotland seems incapable of working together.
I am beginning to worry that independence will now be difficult to achieve.
Can anyone here think of what COULD be going on behind the scenes assuming SNP Leadership still want indy?
Back channel Deal with the EU?
I do think there’s a belief that the indy doubters have to feel the pain of a Tory brexit before they’ll change their mind.
gullaneno4.
I think a great many folk in the SNP would love a debate with the science -denying transgenderwoowoo woke.
However they shut down all debate, insult those who are against them, issue death threats regularly, falsify statistics, bully academics,police ,civil servants and the media (Man has baby pish) and tell lies ( Rhiannon Spears etc.).
If we don’t get rid of them all – the SNP will become unelectable.
The wokeratti are the intransigents not the other 98% of the party.
Rm @7:37am
Agreed. The slow erasure of identity is pernicious and probably more effective than the nobbling politicians by the agencies charged with maintaining control over Scotland. The frog of independence can be boiled slowly and then it’s gone for ever.
This is relatively easily countered but it needs vigilance and determination which are really hard to galvinise across the board and really hard to maintain over a long period of time.
Every assertion that shows Scots are different from the English makes their job of subjugation a little harder and spreads the message that yes, we are different and no, we won’t be subsumed.
I do have to take issue with the idea of a Scots race. Being, probably, of Pict and Viking origin the idea that there’s one bloodline for Scots rankles a little. It also ignores the contributions of all who have settled here and denies the great contributions they have made to our culture, whether they’re from Poland, Italy, Pakistan and so on.
Alf Baird
I appreciate that, as I’m a scholarship kid who went to one of the posh schools. Why do you think I’ve such a pathological hatred of snobs? 🙂
I was making a rather simplified political point, without trying to sort out the cultural divides within Scotland. Though we’ve a lot of souls damaged by British nationalism, our true enemy is authoritarian English Torydum, which is inescapably racist and fascistic in nature. So it’s even more disappointing that the FM is content to stand under Westminster’s illiberal diktat, which is clear indication she does not know how to support the rule-of-law.
Lifelong SNP supporter (first vote in the dark days of ‘83). I have voted for no other party in my lifetime. Westminster, local elections, European elections and Holyrood. SNP1 & 2.
Until now. Sick of the party and what it has become and I lay the blame full square on Nicola who has been allowed to indulge herself with absolutely no opposition. I renounced my membership because of the control freakery and the perception that it had become a party within a party.
Have joined Independence for Scotland Party because they at least are focussed absolutely on Independence and not GRA etc etc.
ISP are list only and I’ll have to hold my nose this time to vote SNP on the constituency vote, but it will be the last time I vote SNP unless a radical change in leadership and direction occurs.
Meantime: Can I commend the ISP to you all? They will open up a second front on independence and hold the SNP to account! isp.scot
P.S. The FM simply appears to be the latest in a long line of British politicians who lack a respect for international law. Unfortunately, if you lack respect for international law, you can’t support the Common law. So the FM apparently considers her judgement to be superior to the Common law, as well. That might explain her support for genderwoowoo.
“A split vote is exactly what we do not need.”
The underachievers of the world think this is an argument for unity.
It’s actually an argument for abusive relationships and staying in them.
@ James Che. at 3.52pm
‘We as a nation do not have time to wait for a hero’
Obviously not, for so far none is forthcoming. As Daisy Walker has said before, and I agreed with, since the party isn’t doing what they were elected to do, we must. But how and in such a short timescale now – and even worse, when so many still believe fervently that Nicola will lead them to the promised land – well that’s the question exercising all our minds. I too have been worrying for some time about the plans Westminster have for post brexit security against mobs and protests and how that might/will be used against us up here. My worry is everything has been left too late for any manoeuvre we try to have much chance of success, but my long delayed letter of complaint to Sturgeon is in the post all the same.
@ Alan D at 6.31pm
‘unless we want to open the can of worms of having a First Minister who isn’t a MSP.’
If they insist on being in Westminster and that Westminster’s granting on a S30 is imperative then that is exactly where the leader of the SNP should be.
@Fionan
I’m not surprise paranoid questions about the party which refuse to accept the truth given to the senders do not get a reply. Why should they reply to conspiracy theorists who see things which don’t exist?
Colette Walker founded the party, she is leader. As a member of the policy committee I have no information or access to party funds. We are all unpaid volunteers.
The ISP is a WYSIWG party. You can believe what is on the website. Colette is upfront and very keen for the party to succeed. She is incredibly busy. She thus cannot reply to every question peddling conspiracy theories.
Stuart- I always like the Pat Kane quote -when Scottish Labour come out with the “I am an internationalist” hackneyed line.
Pat said:” In order to have the word internationalists, nations must therefore exist”.
Being a nation starts with identity , culture, social attitudes and economics, and in that order. The Unionists love the economic argument , so they always put that first instead of last. They don’t want to get into a debate about culture and Scottish identity.
So they paint us all as British. This homogenises the different cultures of the British Isles into one Anglo Saxon nation obsessed with money and class.
Yet look at Scotland and we are not remotely like the English or British. The language, celtic heritage, folk music, bagpipes, Kilts, whisky, Gaelic, Scots. The Highlands , islands , Burns, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Dundee. At heart very Scottish places.
When people come to live in Scotland they embrace the culture and the traditions. From Asian Scots to Italian Scots. This is what a nation is about.
When England puts a Union Jack on our whisky. You know that they are trying to ignore our existence and steal our culture as their own.
I have never met Professor Alf Baird, but I have read his scholarly articles and excellent book on the tsunami of English culture and identity which has been powering towards and over us.
You will not hear his book being discussed or analysed on any BBC or msm outlet because he speaks of the nation ( not race) which must never be acknowledged by the propaganda machine that runs our little colony.
The supreme irony is that we are led by a party which is obsessed with ‘identity’ which revolves around their gender, when all we wanted was one that focused on our national, cultural and historical rights and identity.
They have allowed a centralised metropolitan hub to be created in Edinburgh…anglicised and Scottish neutral in nature.Devolved power was required around Scotland with jobs and opportunity divested to all airts and pairts. Instead a flood of carpetbaggers and ‘investors’ have followed in its wake and our Capital city is full of empty unregulated properties owned by rich RUK ‘investors’ placing their student progeny in large numbers.
Hence we have ‘Call UKAYE’ whining about ‘Human Rights’ for students whilst our country is slowly being written out of history.
So Willie Rennie has vowed his LibDems (Remove the democrats bit, he, they oppose democracy by refusing our right to hold an indyref) will vehemently oppose a a second indy vote.
We must assume that the likes of Rennie and other British nationalist MSP’s at Holyrood, know fine well that the Internal Market bill will virtually neutralise our own parliament Holyrood, in favour of a foreign parliament Westminster, and in the process not just remove our chances of becoming an independent nation once again but also lower our living standards as well.
People like Rennie must be treated with contempt, contempt that he has for his fellow country men and women. Rennie and Co would rather see great harm come to Scotland than allow Scotlnad a way out of this madness.
https://www.thenational.scot/news/18754537.libdems-vow-reject-indyref2-say-boris-johnson-not-helping-case-uk/
@Gullane no4,
If we take your view, then we would not complain about what happened to Alex Salmond. We would not complain that the SN P Chief Executive urged the police in the UK to find evidence to convict him.
We would not complain that common everyday speech could land you in jail We would not complain that senior positions in the party are being filled with devolutionists rather than Independence minded individuals.
We would not complain about the NEC actively plotting to get rid it very competent MPs because they don’t agree with a minority in the party.
We would not complain when SN P great it’s own voters as constant trash.
You can accept all that if you wish. My mother brought me up to fight injustice rather than aid it’s progress.
It should be apparent to all but the willfully blind, that the FM doesn’t have the character or intellectual skill needed for this fight. It is also apparent the party’s management couldn’t run a piss-up in a brewery. So I think it will be left to the people to pettirion international law, as the SNP appear to be far too parochial for that sort of nonsense. We will simply need to do a better job of defending ourselves from expansionist English nationalism, as we can’t trust Scotland’s law officers.
https://www.supremecourt.uk/docs/speech-180216.pdf
The hypocrisy of Westminster really does know no bounds as Westminster’s bars and restaurants are exempt from the 10pm curfew, not only that there is also no requirement to gather contact details from those who enter the bars. Add in that there’s no stringent rules at all around the use of face coverings, which applies to other licenced premises.
The rule of thumb is do as I say not as I do from Westminster.
Samuel Coleman says:
28 September, 2020 at 7:44 pm
‘I’m beginning to think Nicola has been a unionist plant all along and the marriage is a cover. The strain is beginning to show on her.’
The strain has been starting to show for a while but I think the rant over Spear is when she lost it. It was obviously badly judged to start a moral intervention again after such a long lapse from her, when she no longer had the credibility to cover her hypocrisy, but I feel it was a desperate move. She is crumbling. I disagree on the unionist plant all along bit – otherwise Salmond must have been taken in all that time. He left the party in their hands as Colin said before and that’s more than enough culpability. I can’t believe he was so nïave as to have been gulled for years before it.
@ PacMan at 8.07 pm
‘I wonder if her twitter account is actually done for her or at least vetted beforehand by somebody media trained? If so, what has happened recently?’
I’ve always thought it was her own voice and very well presented, she’s good that way verbally in interviews too after all practically speaking in paragraphs not just sentences. Just like the clothes and style change, which now seems part of her, she honed it over time. She’s a worker, she tries hard at it, even when she’s better than most, you have to give her that. As you say, presentation is (almost) more important than content. It’s no surprise she might be going to pieces now though – since the Salmond stuff is almost upon her, many yessers are now worse critics than unionists, her chosen successor hasn’t yet been voted in, brexit is not far off and time is running out.
I do not follow any of those fools, I have no interest in what any of them have to say, I have never read anything they say apart from what others put on wings
They cannot last the course because they seem to be to stupid to understand the basic principle of running a political party
The voters put you where you are, and if you do not do what the voters want, the voters will turn on you, and that will be the end of your political career, cause where can you go after the SNP
Your what they call, a busted flush
Polly – Sturgeon is a machine politician. If you watch her long enough she comes across as such.
She isn’t a passionate Scot in the sense that I would say I am. I am an old fashioned nationalist. Don’t get me wrong. I am not insular, as I believe Scotland is for everyone that lives here. But I am passionate in my identity as a Scot. Do you think Nicola is?
As for the marriage. That was a business partnership. Murrell came out of the shadows and now he is in a role he created for himself.
He has been an abysmal failure , or a very successful double agent. You decide?
Salmond did a fabulous job.
He took a devolved executive and turned it into a Government. He secured a majority government. He introduced some fantastic policies such as free prescriptions, tuition free education, removal of bridge tolls, and much more. And then he took us to a referendum where, against the mugh5 of 5he UK state he nearly succeeded taking the independence vote from 28% to 45%.
But in losing the vote, Salmond in his wisdom decided to step aside and let his able deputy to get on with a party and a movement in great heart and great shape. But where did it go from there. What new policies were introduced. What new campaigns were enacted. What promises were delivered to the faithful. More austerity, another Tory Government, dragged out of Europe against our will?
And now a party a movement in revolt at not just having been sold down the river by a First Minister who is nothing more than the Establishments girl in Scotland, but a First Minister who’s ruling clique will stop at nothing to destroy political opponents through methods most foul.
Sturgeon is a thug. Her husband is a thug. Many of their accomplices are thugs – and the Salmond affair most certainly shows how vile she is. There is no place in Scotland for people like her.
And now, in a barrage of criticism she turns on ordinary rank and file supporters calling them threatening and abusive – which most certainly tells you how the Hate Crime Bill is going to be used.
Well, her time is up. Thuggish as she and her husband may be, their time is up. And get this Sturgeon, and get this good, no amount of police, the army, the fiscal service are going to keep you in power. You will be gone. Democracy will prevail.
Big Jock
I think you nailed it – never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity, or perhaps, mediocrity.
Sturgeon expected independence to be delivered so she took the time to push the Women First and Progressive parts in order to “modernise” the country in preparation for it’s freedom. Must have come as quite a shock that she also needed to do the work to get us out of the Union as well.
In the meantime all the riff-raff that showed up on the doorstep with the new identity politics were let in as a result of poor leadership and the whole train went off the rails as a result.
Just got the latest threatening letter from the TV LICENSING scam in the last 10 minutes
To The Legal Occupier
Their is nobody in my house called The Legal Occupier, so why has it been put through my letterbox, and why in the name of the wee man, the big man, and next door’s cat do they even think they will get any kind of answer from this person called The Legal Occupier, who I have never heard of
The Legal Occupier whoever that is, has to act now to avoid further investigation, if I do happen to come across him on my travels I will be sure to let him know that his letters keep getting put through my letter box, and warn him that there will be a huge administration cost if I have to send them to his present whereabouts wherever that is, because the guy seems to be living everywhere, and being invisible nobody know’s who he is, or what he is, maybe he is a figment of someones imagination, that must be the answer, he is someone’s imaginary friend, ahhhhhhh bless, lol
@crazycat 9.24: thanks for that Campbell Martin article, which was written with a long-term insider’s insight. Nothing really surprising but it certainly seems to explain the way the party has gone in the last six years in particular.
If I may, I’m just going to repeat a section of Alf Baird’s comments at 10.09 above:
“On the matter of decolonisation (ie independence) globally:
– no other British colony required a ‘Section 30’ from Westminster for independence
– most colonies did not require a referendum which, as a matter or law, is not a requirement for independence either
– most colonies were not even signatory to a Treaty (of Union) enabling them to lawfully withdraw from any such union under international law
– the fact is independence is in general inevitable once a Nationalist majority is elected to the national assembly.
Scotland is therefore already arguably de facto independent given Nationalist majorities have been elected (now on numerous occasions).”
This clearly shows reminds us what a self-defeating dead end a Section 30 strategy represents. It also got me thinking of exactly when a simple majority of SNP seats at WM was abandoned by the party as a means of achieving independence. Even Thatcher accepted this as being democratic, admittedly because she probably thought it would never happen. Perhaps a better question would be who proposed such a change in SNP policy and with what justification?
Does anyone remember/know?
It is the Natural law that ties the Common law to international law. So Scots simply need to wake up to the fact that both Westminster and Holyrood appear desperate to reject legal judgement and practice that is compatible with the Natural law. This means both parliaments are legislating in a manner that is hostile to law and order, though supportive of authoritarian totalitarianism. I would have expected Scotland’s legal Establishment might have kicked-up about this sort of stuff, but apparently they are supportive of arbitrary legal dogmatism.
Fordham Law Review Volume 23 Issue 1 Article 2, 1954
The Natural Law and Our Common Law
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/144224477.pdf
Everybody here is talking about cultural assimilation by England. Why is nobody talking about the fact that the USA is culturally colonising both England AND Scotland at this very moment, 24/7 365? That seems to me to being a much more advanced cultural-agency-nullifying agenda, in some ways, but people still don’t seem to have noticed the extent to which this is genuinely happening. I just don’t get it.
Maybe it was coming back to this country and seeing it through eyes educated through over a decade of living stateside, but the extent to which we are becoming Little America is depressing, disturbing and disgusting, as the intersectionalist dross under discussion is testament to.
America is swallowing us whole, in a cultural and culinary and linguistics and anti-intellectual blight. People seem to be not noticing their ever-quicker assimilation into monosyllabic, fast food-gulping, superhero-film-worshipping, fat blank brained nothing ciphers. Or, even worse, enjoying it.
Cliche sera sera.
Dave Caledonia @10:20.
Do t stress dude,mI got one to, never open them just put them in a file waiting for the day they turn up at my door so I cam hand them over, with a smile of course.
Don’t oops!
The unionist parties look and see how ineffectual Sturgeon is at fightng for Scotland. This has emboldened them to rachet up their colonialism. Would the Tories’ power grab be so extreme and broad, would the Lib Dems opposition to an indyref be so emphatic, if someone far stronger and shrewder than Sturgeon was at the helm? Of course not.
But the situation is making us genuine nationalists find the determination required. So Sturgeon is doing Scotland a favour in that sense.
Pete Wishart has lost all pretence of being polite to his constituents. I can only conclude that he will retire at the next UK General Election, which is not until at least 2024 or 2025.
For those 5 years he will earn £80,000.00 basic pay plus another £16,500.00 for chairing the Westminster Select Committee on Scottish Affairs. On top of these ‘basics’ he is reimbursed for all his ‘consequential’ expenses of simply being am MP. This, unlike the rest of the workers in the UK, includes the ‘consequence of being an MP’ that he has to eat, travel and find a roof over his head. He would still need to eat, travel and have a roof over his head, if he was not an MP. That’s what the rest of us in gainful employment must do.
No wonder Pete was jumping up and down with glee when he won last December! He had just won £482,500 over the next 5 yrs plus expenses. But MP’s salary is dwarfed by how much they can claim in expenses each year.
Ask yourself if you were on a gravy train for the next 5 years, would you be working your socks off to bring that gravy train to an end? Of course not.
Could someone have a word with Pete and tell him to get his teeth seen to, asap? His open mouth on zoom camera resembles an ancient graveyard of brown, lichened, broken, gaping horrors. Quite put me off my tea.
I think that a two pronged approach by independence supporters is the best way to go. First, those who are in the SNP should work to taking back control over the party. Second, those of us who are outside the SNP should look to support an alternative independence party. An alternative will take many years to become effective but the best time to start something is straight away.
I believe the Independence for Scotland Party (ISP) is the best currently available option but I could be wrong. If a Wings Party was started then it would be the one I would support.
I am not optimistic about the prospects for the SNP. I believe that electorally successful political parties tend to become increasingly corrupted over time. An expression about eggs and baskets comes to mind.
I’m a pretty easy-going guy, but 2027? After 2014 I reckoned we would have to wait a few years, but we had better not have to wait that long… 🙁
Muscleguy ”
I’m not surprise paranoid questions about the party which refuse to accept the truth given to the senders do not get a reply. Why should they reply to conspiracy theorists who see things which don’t exist”
Precisely what paranoid questions are you referring to? Precisely what ‘truths’ given to ‘the sender’do you refer to? Precisely what conspiracy theories do you refer to? Precisely what things do you think I see that don’t exist? Your response tells me you have no idea what my email concerned and what query I made. This tells me all I need to know about your party. I remain disenfranchised. But please, do answer my questions so that everyone can see what a concerned and genuine party the ISP is, and how keen they are to a) establish what concerns re policies their prospective voters hold, and b) represent their voters – both of which are promises which have been made by the ISP, and which are now obviously to be broken.
Hopefully Wings and/or some of the most influential and truly pro-independence figures will now look at forming a genuine list group, for a genuine list group which gains the trust of sufficient voters to gain seats is exactly what is needed to provide a strong incentive to the snp to start putting independence back at the top of, and the only item for now on, the agenda.
@ Northman at 11.44 pm
Undoubtedly they can – and have – ignored people in the past. My point was more a concerted deluge all together at the same time might make more impact. We can’t have mass rallies but we could all send emails or tweets, Facebook messages or even old fashioned written letters at the same time. They might end up overloaded and if it comes at once they’d be in no doubt it was coordinated. Whether it would work? But sheer weight of numbers of complaints is important, especially before elections.
@ twathater at
I agree it is probably beyond that now, time is so scarce. Yet there is the feeling we must do something.
Juteman at 4.09pm
‘I will piss myself laughing if Sturgeon announces that the Holyrood vote will be a vote for Indy as Westminster is refusing a Sec30.’
I’ll laugh along with you in relief if that’s the case.
@ Big Jock at 9.51 am
We do have room for different kinds of nationalists though, ones like you, Salmond, Sturgeon, me or even the reluctant ones because of brexit. Room for them so long as they advance independence anyway. I don’t believe Murray Foote has, despite it bringing him a new income on party expenses, I don’t believe Spear ever has, and since the outburst about Spear I don’t think Sturgeon is any longer either. Murrell? If Sturgeon has been following his advice these last few years then yes he’s an enemy, and even just on the WhatsApp stuff alone, and I’d bet that’s only a fraction of it, then he’s dangerous and needs to go.
Interesting comments Lesserprawn.
An alternative party would I suspect not take years to establish.There are enough highly skilled, highly motivated individuals able and willing to migrate over into an alternative list party. Get some big names moving over, giving the signal and it would happen.
This would be no rookie party and a strong list party would without doubt take many many seats.
Like most of us our preferred strategy would be to get the SNP back on track and do well in the constituency seats with a list party picking up a huge number of list streets to deliver a super majority. Moreover, with a super majority list party in the Wings, what place for any devolutionist time servers.
Moreover, with targeted high profile candidates standing as independents,, then high profile sitting targets could be taken out in the constituencies. Think of Salmond standing against Sturgeon and you get the general idea.
Yes, we can take our party, our movement back, and to quote Lesley Evans, we can win the war.
@Republicofscotland says:
29 September, 2020 at 9:41 am
“The hypocrisy of Westminster really does know no bounds as Westminster’s bars and restaurants are exempt from the 10pm curfew”
They made the decision to close at 10pm a couple of days ago, almost as soon as teh hypocrisy was pointed out.
Gullaneno4 @8:29
“I am beginning to worry that independence will now be difficult to achieve”
The penny finally drops!
99% of visitors to this site would agree with you there, but not for the reasons you think.
The reason that Independence will now be difficult to achieve is because the current SNP leadership do not regard it as being necessary nor indeed desirable in order to achieve their goals.
To them , Independence has become a distraction, an irritation, possibly an obstacle to the type of Scotland they want to see in place before going anywhere near IndyRef2.
Their gender woo-woo/hate speech nonsense can only get done with the help of short-money from Westminster, favourable parliamentary arithmetic at Holyrood and a complicit and supine NEC. Lose another IndyRef and all that is put at risk.
Best for them to keep kicking the Independence can down the road for now; there are too many policies to which a higher degree of priority is attached to be bothering with Indy.
They can get back to that, eventually, but in the mean time tell keep telling the plebs that everything is in hand and keep blaming Westminster for it not happening sooner.
How convenient…
Interesting article in the Press & Journal from Campbell Gunn , “ End secrecy surrounding Alex Salmond inquiry or risk costly cover-up claim “ .
A couple of quotes from the article ,
“ In some ways, the Scottish Government has been fortunate in the timing of the parliamentary investigation. “
“ But the danger for the Scottish Government is that the Salmond inquiry and the emergence of new and damaging revelations could continue for months, perhaps beyond the end of the year.
By that time, Covid will hopefully have receded and the media’s focus may well return to the Salmond affair. “
https://archive.vn/aaGgR
As Campbell Gunn has said the press will be waiting to pounce on the inquiry and then it will hit the headlines on every newspaper , it’s time for the Snp and the Scottish Government to cooperate with the inquiry .
In an independent Scotland, gender woowoo laws and Yusuf’s hate crime bill would have to go through two chambers with all the necessary scrutiny. It may then require separate signing by a separately elected head of state.
In a devolved Scotland… one chamber controlled by SNP, which can rely on votes from similarly aligned MSPs for a majority.
Why do you think the current composition of the SNP, especially given the First Minister’s VERY CLEAR leanings, would want a two-chamber parliament in an independent Scotland?
@ MaggieC at 11.41am
Campbell Gunn is always interesting to listen to and being involved in the judicial review with Salmond at the time makes his statements more interesting. Thanks for posting the article Maggie. Your links to the inquiry are always welcome too since particular items are not always easy to locate.
“It’s a simple fact that courts, especially the court of session don’t rule on hypothetical issues.
If there was a bill before parliament that’s one thing, but you can’t appear before a judge asking “if we did this thing we were thinking about, would that be ok?””
(1) What we originally said back in spring 2018 was that the Scottish Government should take action such that would trigger a legal challenge (eg just going ahead and initiating the referendum process, at which point someone would have to object, be it the UK government or a local council or some random citizen), thereby rendering the situation non-hypothetical.
(2) If what you say is true then it seems terribly unethical of Aidan O’Neill QC to have taken Martin Keatings’ money to undertake a course of action with absolutely no hope of success. I have to assume he’s formed the case in such a way as to be at least potentially viable or surely it would have been thrown out before now.
Me @ 11.41 am
More from the Press & Journal about Campbell Gunn’s article ,
“ Salmond inquiry : Campbell Gunn fears probe secrecy could derail Snp’s Independence bid “ by columnist Calum Ross ,
https://archive.vn/YREpX
Apparently the Scottish Government will not consent to the power grab bill as it breaches international law, though no doubt some other highly qualified and extremely well remunerated pinhead dancers will see things differently…
https://www.thenational.scot/news/18754851.holyrood-refuse-consent-tories-power-grab-bill/
guiianeno4 @ 8:16.
Not quite sure how closely you have been following events and comments here , no one is suggesting splitting any vote , most people get where we are ,we can’t vote for any Unionist party so are left with one option at this late stage in the game we are political hostages right now and wether by accident or design the SNP despite all their faults are the only option .
Again to clarify even after all the moaning about the direction the current leadership are going in most if not all are having to shut their eyes and hold their noses and put their X against a SNP MSPs name , Now the List Vote is an entirely different story this is a real Chance to send a final message to the current management this is your last chance , change or we will change You .
No one is saying don’t vote for the only party who can if we push them hard enough deliver a second Indy ref , I think you might have got the wrong end of the stick , ok a lot of us moan it doesn’t mean we are totally bloody stupid ,
Has anyone answered the post about N.S. Husband Mr., Murrell ???his background family etc., Hilda Murrell the English lady was found dead in suspicious circumstances and like Willie Macrae was said to have been murdered by MI5 was Hilda related to Nicolas husband ??? And do MI5 have some hold on him ???
I Agree with this entirely.
Blair Paterson that’s a very interesting question. I wonder how common the name Murrell is
Hmm… All those SNPers pure outraged at Trump’s Deterrence Project to disenfranchise certain demographics from voting, whilst their own Party attempts to implement shit policies the electorate don’t want thus effectively disenfranchising and deterring folk from voting coz there’s no sensible option.
*Reasonably minded folk would quite rightly have a choice not to cast their vote rather than vote for a Party with bonkers policies that will erode their rights.
Obviously both the above scenarios differ, but neither is the action of democratically minded folk representing the electorate.
* And this is an interesting point as similar techniques have been used by Cambridge Analytica in the form of their voter disengagement campaigns.
@ Dan at12.46 pm
Talking of Cambridge Analytica I take it you’ve seen this about Nix?
http://archive.is/aPeAr
You only have to look at the difference in fines levied to see how little they’ll regard UK regulations.
That’s certainly reassuring that Scotland devolved administration is finally referring to international law, but that should have happened the minute Westminster legislated consent for Berxit. Which simply shredded about every constitutional legal principle there is. I had a sneaking suspicion that English Torydum’s fascistic tendencies would lead them to destroy the legal foundations of the yoonyawn. This was apparent under Thatcher, and now appears to be happening thanks to international dark money funding radical right-wing populism.
Remember, all Scots are agents of international law, no matter what England’s legal Establishment might say about the matter.
International Law Clients: The Wisdom of Natural
Law
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/144228657.pdf
‘No punches being pulled by MSPs on Holyrood’s Salmond inquiry – Linda Fabiani says they’re “completely frustrated” by a lack of evidence “and quite frankly obstruction” they face, with “responses still outstanding” from the government, SNP chief Peter Murrell and Salmond himself.’
https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1310909160654020612
Why is Linda Fabiani citing Alex Salmond?
Do we know what it is he’s supposed to have withheld?
Is she just trying to project a semblance of ‘balance’?
Ian@1:10pm:
Wasn’t Alex Salmond warned against releasing some material? That might be the very material Linda Fabiani is seeking although I am speculating, I have to say.
MaggieC 11.41
Thanks for the link to the Campbell Gunn article Maggie. It’s interesting that he still seems to have faith in Nicola Sturgeon.
“No-one wants to see Scotland head for independence more than me. And I firmly believe that Nicola Sturgeon is, by a distance, the best person to lead us to that goal.”
@ Ian Brotherhood at 1.10 pm
‘Why is Linda Fabiani citing Alex Salmond?
Do we know what it is he’s supposed to have withheld?’
Perhaps the fact his legal team objected to the governments attempt to introduce (unasked) their review of him, which was more or less struck down in the judicial review as ‘tainted by apparent bias’? That’s all I’ve heard of anyway. Perhaps they think all should come out. If so, I disagree with that, since it could, and obviously was attempted to be, yet another way of maligning him.
@robertknight 1140
‘in the mean time tell keep telling the plebs that everything is in hand and keep blaming Westminster for it not happening sooner.’
That is not the script – the official line is – the voters in Scotland are not ready, it is not the yes supporters NS and SNP have to convert over, no way would the electorate be willing to vote for a plebiscite HE on indy, without first having the S30 debacle issue settled.
And stage 2 of that policy is to ensure that all and any ground that could be and should be covered, in order to convert those voters former no voters over to indy, is not being done… Covid don’t you know – even for Billboards.
And stage 2 is the bit we need to politely ignore. Or else we are done.
To be a mature independence movement we need to stop looking for saviours. Yes, great orators have their place but I was put off by the adulation given NS. Nauseating. Let’s get off our knees.
@Johnny/Polly –
Yeah, that could be the material that Rev has already dealt with here – it’s already been discredited and its exclusion should not, surely, be construed as ‘obstruction’?
@Ian Brotherhood, 1.01pm
Is Mr Salmond’s response not outstanding because he has been threatened with contempt of court if he does submit the relevant documents? If that is so, Ms Fabiani is pulling her punches.
The only way to treat legal evidence that is deamed to be ‘tainted by apparent bias’, is to keep it out of public circulation. Seeking to make it available in the public domain, is simple incompatible with the principles of “natural justice” and the “doctrine of bias”. So any legal bod trying to achieve such, needs to be cautioned and a detailed examination undertaken into their approach to legal practice.
https://lexlife.in/2020/05/18/principle-of-natural-justice-rule-against-bias/
@ Willie at 1133
‘An alternative party would I suspect not take years to establish.There are enough highly skilled, highly motivated individuals able and willing to migrate over into an alternative list party. Get some big names moving over, giving the signal and it would happen.’
One reason the Brit Nat establishment and the current SNP leadership is bricking it about Holyrood election is the 2 votes.
It allows for voters to ‘not have all their eggs in one basket’. This means vote one for SNP and protest vote on the list – with a good chance of them being elected.
That second vote is a bit like a local council vote (I would suggest) folk vote for someone they know, and someone they respect – even if they don’t agree with them on every issue.
Which is why one does not need a second Indy Party, it needs good local candidates and a common purpose mandate to which all these List Vote candidates can sign up to.
By making it a common mandate, publicly accessible – potentially even SNP candidates can sign up to it. (Think the womans charter).
For example, Indy first, Hate Crime Bill and GRA bill real concerns for public safety – put on back burner until Indy achieved.
The essence, the origin of the “scottish cringe” comes down to this –
if you are a smart kid, trying to get somewhere, at some point you stand in front of some english/anglophone-unionist guy – an interviewer, an examiner
AND YOUR JOB IS TO WIN THEIR APPROVAL
– this behaviour gets ingrained, and the higher you go, the more you do it. It is so deep, you don’t notice it.
So this is where you end up – frightened to mention what is in front of your eyes, in case you get called a “racist”; or being a “nationalist” but trying to create a nationalism that The Guardian approves of. We are the “regged kilted philanthropists” willing to give it all away, in case we get accused of “blood and soil”.
Alf Baird’s posts have been sharp, on point.
– the english have stuffed our public life and quangos with their 3rd rate dregs for a long time; we are overdue for a clearout.
This applies doubly to people like, Lesley Evans, who is almost certainly a spy, but also to those down the running order – their very presence creates an ambient background of englishness.
There is an old Grouse Beater article about him trying to get work commissioned at BBC Scotland, getting the cold shoulder – “we aren’t doing regional drama” – which shows how the problem exists all the way down the line.
It’s amazing how easily the Holyrood inquiry has dropped off the radar if it wasn’t for the comments above I wouldn’t have known it was sitting or the proposed time table , I gather the next instalment is on the 6th of October , at this rate we , well most of us here will be Deed before it concludes.
On a totally unrelated issue Holyrood , is it beyond the Wit and imagination of the MSPs at Holyrood to propose the Claim of right is prominently displayed at the entrance to our Parliament in order to remind anyone and all who enter this is and forever will be the settled will of The Scottish People and that is .
Our right to choose our government whatever political persuasion we choose , in big unambiguous text, OUR RIGHT TO CHOOSE IS NOT AND NEVER WILL BE NEGOTIABLE , maybe that will remind those who represent us they are there to do OUR bidding not the other way round.
British nationalism and its’ associated world view and political identity, is the product of intensive “methodological nationalism”. This nationalism has traditionally sought to privilege Parliamentary sovereignty, over the principles and necessary legal infrastructure to support cultural pluralism.
So it’s no wonder a British nationalist cultural bias has penetrated our judicial systems. This is the very nature of colonialism, which fundamentally shaped the nature of British politics, and which Brexit seeks to bury out of sight. So Scotland simply needs to wake up to the ambivalence towards law and order that appears to permeate the Scottish justice system.
https://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/MonashULawRw/2013/11.pdf
Replying to Scottie Dog,
Angus Robertson ma arse, the greedy selfish fat twat is only after his cosy seat. No interest in independence
Nicola should be ousted, cherry for PM
This twitter thread should scare the shit out of any democrat or even someone who likes truth and fairness.
It’s a fucking litany of cultish sheep.
https://twitter.com/suleskerry/status/1309989169079480320
Big Jock at 0848pm,
Totally agree. Some SNP MPs have been taken in by all that is Westminster. When Wishart decided he would like to be speaker of the HoC, you knew his opinions on independence were irrelevant. he should be settling up, not settling in. He has become consumed by all that goes on in Westminster. The jokey chuminess behind the scenes, a joke over drinks here or a chat over drinks there, and the general agreement that ‘it is all just a game’ with folk on different sides. Just a job.
I find it very sad. This is why Sinn fein is correct to not take their seats. Make no mistake, from the moment those MP’s like wishart entered the HoC, people will have been assigned to befriend them, slowly, oh so slowly, and work on their views and hostility to Westminster, to make them see, that in reality they really could have a say in things in the ‘big boy’ parliament. And so, we have Pete Wishart regularly bragging about how he chairs the Scottish affairs committe, a role which gives him a title but zero power, as the people on the committee are appointed by UK gov. It means nothing, nothing at all.
It is very, very sad to see how easily some SNP MPs have been manipulated, and played, and still even now, they cannot even realise what has been done. Instead they just refuse to engage with those in the indy movement and SNP who are unhappy with them.
I expected the SNP to be wise to all of this, but sadly it doesn’t seem so.
We can all see how they have been played, sadly they themselves don’t, and likely never will.
It is, to say the least, going to be interesting to see just how committed the SNP are to gender reform in light of what’s happening in England
The sexist pseudoscience of gender identity
https://archive.is/Q40ms
You are very much correct Daisy Walker when you say that the Establishment will be having concerns about the two vote system.
D’hondt was deliberately introduced to stop a party having a majority and that is exactly why 953,000 votes at the last election delivered 4 SNP seats.
But if the SNP do well in the constituency and an Independence List Party does well in the list vote, then a super majority ensues.
What not to like about that. And of course that is maybe why the current SNP devolutionist leadership has turned its face away from any options other than a} SNP 1 and 2 – give us another mandate, and B} now is not the time for a sometime referendum that someone might or might not decide to grant us and C} we have no constitutional arguments or treaty arguments capable of pursuance in either the UK courts or the international courts and D) Scotland although we said otherwise is now out of the EU irrespective of the majority of Scots voting to remain.
I’ll be your First Minister for another five years was the claim only a few months ago. ( Having settled the EU matter I’m now on Covid – eh!)
Well that is not going to wash no more Mrs Murrell. The jail more like I think. The members and the movement are back.
Remember, law which lacks a concern for logic and phenomenology, and which also lacks respect for Natural law (see the GRA amendments and Brexit), IS NOT LAW. It is dogmatic adminstrative decree that lacks respect for the Moral law, so the diktat holds no legal force.
The law simply becomes a tool of totalitarianism, if emptied of concern for the Moral law. Apparently Scotland’s legal Establishment are ambivalent towards this characteristic of the law.
https://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=5253&context=faculty_scholarship
Seems I can not add much to what has already been said, most of which I agree with, But if the SNP membership is mostly made up from members of the Yes movement following up from the 2014 failed referendum, why would it take years to set up a new party, all it would take is a big hitter to get them to move over to the new party, it would be the same party just a different name.
I agree with Stuart’s critique, especially the analysis of the consequences of a legal test/challenge. I also agree that there are seat-warmers, time-wasters, time-servers and some off-the-wall one-issue deflectionists (I just invented that word to convey the meaning of being so focused on one pet issue that the ultimate goal is compromised). There are quite a few on the NEC who need to be jettisoned, and I am in complete agreement that Peter Murrell is a liability and lacking in competence. He must go.
However, Nicola Sturgeon’s popularity is immense in the wider Scottish public beyond our own bubble, and her perceived statesmanship has won over many of those folk to the cause of independence. As a historian by profession, I see a rough parallel in the Viet Cong’s and North Vietnamese’s long war of independence. Most people think that Ho Chi Minh was the architect of the winning strategy which drove out the USA. This was not so. It was General Giap and the coterie around him who developed and put into practice that strategy. However, they were savvy enough to realise that Ho was a hugely popular figure, both among the Vietnamese and internationally. Consequently, they softly moved him aside in the decision-making process while simultaneously loudly praising him, declaring that he was their guiding light, and maintaining him as the figurehead leader. Whatever you think of Nicola Sturgeon, she is too valuable an asset to be ditched. And I strongly contend that she really does believe in the independence cause. Just like those who have questioned Stuart’s commitment to independence, it is equally insulting and wrong to say that she is not sincere. We can validly argue that her strategy and tactics might be at fault, but like Ho Chi Minh, her loyalty is genuine. And like Ho, we need to leave her in place while peeling away the dross around her.
Robert Louis.
I think you are correct in your analysis of Peter Wishart and I couldn’t help but think of Robert Burns who in his immortal words he describes arrogant Westminster toadies like Peter Wishart.**
Barron Wishart no doubt if he were given the chance!
( **in a Man’s a Man for A That )
@Walter Hamilton
Completely agree. The problem is which big hitter holds enough sway? As much as Cherry has had a promising start she doesn’t carry enough with her to do that. The only one who does is Alex Salmond but he’s out of the picture until all matters outstanding are resolved.
Pete Wishart
Slowly transforming into Samuel Jackson in ‘Django Unchained’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNrG5lD2zmQ
@tridentitycrisis
Sturgeon may be an asset to the short term aspirations of the SNP and to the enrichment of her own household but she is most certainly not an asset to the cause of Independence.
Her apparent popularity is driven by a marketing phenomenon called ‘Top of Mind’. It is why big brands exist and why they always outsell cheaper products that are qualitatively just as good. Brands don’t invest in the quality of what is delivered they just invest in building brand recognition. Stop me if this is sounding familiar…
Go back and look at the polls in the run up to the 2016 election. You will see several showing SNP support in the high-50s and low-60s in February and March – but watch what happens when the campaign actually started. She lost between 10% and 15% support by the time the election came around.
And remember – those levels of support were achieved without the benefit of her daily briefings and Boris Johnston’s shitshow as a comparator.
Make no mistake, these daily briefings of hers are nothing but a cynical exercise in building brand Sturgeon. It’s almost as if she feels she needs to get something in the bank to help fight off something else.
This guy is quite offensive, but this proves that they are starting to notice what’s happening up here in the SNP.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBCixEwOZhY&feature=youtu.be
Re “ Dan says @ 1211p.m. Well worth following the link to the National story on the Mike Russell “ power grab bill “ story and scrolling down to the “ comments” and reading the really “ crux of the matter” excellent comment from Lorna Campbell relating to the Treaty of Union in the context of the “United Kingdom” ( Equal partner kingdoms of Scotland and England) devolving powers to Holyrood without the exact same powers being “ devolved “ to an exact equivalent “ English” government .
Tinto Chiel @ 10.30
Does anyone remember/know?
Great question – I thought someone from the cognoscenti might have answered you by now.
I, for one, was unaware of Section 30 until Alex Salmond (re)produced it. I think, however, it might have been a trap designed by Donald Dewar?
Perhaps someone on the SNP’s Treaty of Union Dissection Committee has the answers.
This is the first time ever that I have little choice but to abstain from voting: my values (e.g. State transparency & accountability) cannot bend to a ROTTEN SNP, while a vote for any British unionist party is out-of-the-question.
Essentially, ROTTEN (shady, conniving, duplicitous, perverting & obstructing) SNP has left me with no viable option.
HELL MEND YOU ROTTEN SNP BANANA…
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-54343018
Our Justice Minister appears to think a pretense to administrative correctness provides sufficient connection with the principles of legal doctrine, to ensure the law’s decree holds legal force. So I really am beginning to wonder about BritNat plants in the party, as his approach to the law would deny Scots the benefits of democracy. Surely we have better trained legal minds in the party?
Down Tinfoil, down. 😉
Book Review: Cultural Backlash: Trump, Brexit and Authoritarian Populism by Pippa Norris and Ronald Inglehart
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2019/06/09/book-review-cultural-backlash-trump-brexit-and-authoritarian-populism-by-pippa-norris-and-ronald-inglehart/
As disgraceful as all of this is by her and the rest of them who are doing literally nothing to achieve independence, they will never be able to top their backstabbing of Alex Salmond.
I gave them the benefit of the doubt for a good amount of time, trying to tell myself the SNP were slow to react, etc. I didn’t want to believe Rev Stu was correct, but he was.
Just because nobody ever discusses the disastrously negative effect America is having on Scottish (and world) culture, doesn’t mean it’s not happening. We are being assaulted on two simultaneous fronts culturally, one hard – England and its cynical Scotophobic rebranding strategy – and one soft (power) – America’s insidious homogenisation of the world through its empty-headed, crass, unhealthy (chlorinated chicken) corporate grasp on hearts and minds and bellies through its worthless popular culture exports.
Both are clearly having a Scottish-culture-eroding effect, though historically only the Auld Enemy’s attempts at silencing us historically and in modern times are ever groaned and moaned aboot. But both history-and-culture-silencing influences are equally damaging,though eating shit fast food and watching pathetic superhero swill seems to be being unthinkingly embraced by a lot of younger Scots these days. The weans jist love the Disneyland, ser! Sad and horrible, as this historic amnesiac cultural erasure us being done with the full compliance of a lot of the populace. Tragic.
I think you are wrong about Sturgeon’s strategy. I can see why it you have little faith in it, and I can see why it can fail. But I can equally see it being successful – in fact the very nature of Sturgeon’s defensiveness could be seen as reasonable and in her favour after the election. I think if after election there is a general feeling that this is an important issue and that she is reasonable, then it will not be easy for Johnson just to keep saying no.
And what is more, I think you are very wrong about *your* strategy. Again, I feel quite a bit of the criticism of Sturgeon appears justified, esp. concerning Salmond and the SNP internal fights. But let’s be clear, it 100% certain that calling for Sturgeon’s head now will only lead to more fighting and will reduce the likelihood of another referendum and independence within the next few years to zero.
As it is, while I think your writing is really good in galvanising latent sympathy for independence or converting the previously indifferent (esp. the blue book was and is very good), I do not believe anyone who is not already involved in the SNP fights will listen, and thus you will have no effect on Sturgeon’s leadership or on the election…
Tinto Chiel at 10.23
‘this clearly shows reminds us what a self-defeating dead end a Section 30 strategy represents. It also got me thinking of exactly when a simple majority of SNP seats at WM was abandoned by the party as a means of achieving independence. Even Thatcher accepted this as being democratic, admittedly because she probably thought it would never happen. Perhaps a better question would be who proposed such a change in SNP policy and with what justification?
Sorry Tinto auld pal, can’t give you a definitive answer, but about a year ago I pointed out on here that the 2015 GE with all the seats in Scotland being SNP apart from 3 and the popular vote being 50% SNP plus the GREEN Party vote, numbering tens of thousands satisfied that criteria for Dissolution there and then. With Evel declared and Brexit on the immediate horizon, there has never been a more legitimate time to strike.
On that point,to my dismay, the ‘SNPBrilliant’ mob told me to ‘waken up at the back’ and many other zealots as such entities such as the ‘CAT’ and other deluded contributors that somewhere ‘around 2011’ AS had engineered the move away from simple majority of seats to the move to devolved and subsequent REF routes to Independence. This was news to me, despite being a supporter all my adult life, and a member from 2015.I thought it was written down as the DNA of the party’s raison d’etre, but apparently not.
At that point I lost all belief in the SNP and their deluded followers…and in the leadership going back to AS.I deplore his political and personal destruction, but I have believed for a long time that the current movement needs to shed the SNP leadership in its entirety, with very few honourable exceptions, as the vanguard body and move to a more civic based broad approach, such as the YES campaign was…but without Brit ‘plants’ such as Blair ‘BBC’ Jenkins.
Does anyone remember/know?
tridentitycrisis@3:01pm, thank you for the insight. We are a very late stage already to mount an effective new political party against SNP, especially with the pandemic still running amok. This is the time when rallies will actually make a difference.
I would further add, due to this, as much as we don’t agree with SNP leadership, we all have to vote them strongly in the constituency seats in order to game/free the list seat. A >65 SNP constituency MSPs will render the SNP list votes useless. I reckon if we manage our votes for an alternative independence single issue party, 5-8K votes would be sufficient to sneak in one list MSP. 0ne in each region would result at least 8 MSPs and that would be sufficient to cause embarrassment to the SNP (leadership).
If the SNP gets <65 MSPs, their list votes may be useful to sneak in one/two MSPs via the list votes. Notwithstanding everything else, it is very important to manage the list votes in order to game. As such the alternative party must put out a clear message; that they are a single issue party unencumbered by policy matters, and they only want list votes.
As this site/Rev has stated multiple times, the list vote is much more important than the constituency vote.
There is a way Scotland can avoid the impending disaster of a hard covid-Brexit, but only if we figure out how to force our law officers to start respecting and supporting the law, rather than British nationalism. We do have Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, as well as Biological and Environmental rights, even if Scotland’s legal Establishment would rather ignore these characteristics of the modern legal personality.
http://www.legalserviceindia.com/article/l25-Nemo-in-propria-causa-judex,-esse-debet-THE-RULE-AGAINST-BIAS.html
“it will not be easy for Johnson just to keep saying no.”
It will be astonishingly easy for him. Have you ever SEEN Boris Johnson?
.
It is 219 days until the Holyrood election of 2021. As things stand, Nicola Sturgeon will milk her CovidTV Channel appearances for long enough to get herself and the subservient SNP careerist Wokeist followers re-elected on 6th May 2021. If that happens, she has won. Game over.
Another 5 years of Indy kicked into the long grass under Indy-denying Sturgeon.
It is around 170 days when the phoney election war ends and the proper campaigning starts.
1). Is 170 days enough time for enough of us to rejoin the SNP and let our former (mostly oblivious) ordinary and honourable SNP members know that St Nicola of The Covid TV Channel is a busted flush? That she has been rumbled. A proven liar and her fingerprints all over the assassins tools in the efforts to jail the finest First Minister Scotland has ever had, just to keep her and corpulent Mr Murrell in the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed?
OR…
2). Is 170 days enough time to establish a Scottish IndyRef2 Guaranteed List Party? To organise; to fundraise; to secure a leadership; to write a manifesto; to sort out a constitution; to navigate the Electoral Commission process?
Stuart, this is your website. This article has crystallised much of the problem.
The majority on here have read, understood and agree with the library of articles and vast amount of research published. But Sturgeon currently controls a suspiciously compliant Unionist media. The majority of SNP members have no idea Nicola is an IndyBlocking self aggrandising IndyKiller.
In the name of the wee man, will someone, somewhere give us some red meat so we can do something positive?
Aye we cannae give the opposition too much lead-in time as they will get their publicity nukes aimed at us. But surely that is a good thing? It will wake up the normal and honourable members in the SNP who still think Nicola, the polished PR performer is the answer to Indy when in reality she is the ONE main thing BLOCKING IndyRef2.
In short, time is becoming short.
There is a lot of heavy lifting to be done and basically choosing between the two options above. Otherwise Nicola gets her NEXT 5 YEARS AS FM AND YOUSAF GETS HIS ORWELLIAN 1984 HATE CRIME BILL PAST ROYAL ASSENT.
Immediately after ROYAL ASSENT Humza’s Law gets enacted GAME OVER.
Wings Over Scotland is closed down.
Craig Murray is closed down.
Even Wee Ginger Dug and Barrhead Boy + Grousey get the CLEAR THREAT they are going to jail if they dare publish one word against the Sturgeon and Wokeists that they take offence to.
FFS, I’ve been in the wee house on Jura where George Orwell wrote 1984. But would never have thought the real 1984 would start in my beloved Scotland.
170 to 219 days is all we have.
Time to start getting this sorted ourt.
Alex S., and Joanna C., if you are reading this, PLEASE consider getting your plans into action.
Stu., you have done so much, but there is clearly a LOT more to do. Nobody said getting Independence would be easy, but few thought it would so hard and rotten. The torture of watching Alex Salmond’s apprentice turn from our Great Hope to the horrendous bag of worms that the lying treacherous self-interested sharp-clawed windbag we now have squatting in Bute House.
I see WGD has written ‘Tories are bad…just one more mandate will change it’ article again.
From memory the Brexit Party was very quickly formed and was hugely successful in Euro election.
Alliance for Yes does exist, doesn’t it – or did the dear old Electoral Commission put a spanner in the works?
But if Alex Salmond supported a list party, even if not being part of it himself, that would attract votes, I would think. Say the party was called All for Scotland – the initials are right and it would be top of the ballot paper.
Gregor says:
29 September, 2020 at 3:59 pm
“This is the first time ever that I have little choice but to abstain from voting: my values (e.g. State transparency & accountability) cannot bend to a ROTTEN SNP, while a vote for any British unionist party is out-of-the-question.”
…and that’s how the Unionists win. The reason for the SNP’s poor showing in 2016 had almost nothing to do with the other parties’ appeal. It resulted from thousands of previous SNP voters staying at home. If we want independence, we can’t be holier-than-thou. We have to get into bed with people we really don’t like. I presume all of us would welcome Tory converts to YES, even if we hate their other political views.
Earlier (3.01pm) I wrote a comment about Ho Chi Minh and Nicola Sturgeon as popular figureheads. Let me give you another example from South-East Asia. In 1979, the murderous Khmer Rouge were driven out of Cambodia by the Vietnamese. The leadership and several thousands cadres fled into the jungle, emerging months later after a prolonged period of ideological purification of the Party. They were now more Khmer Rougey than they had ever been – but there were only five of them left after their purges.
The moral of this tale is to hold your nose and vote for the SNP at CONSTITUENCY level, and whoever you think will aid the independence cause the most on the LIST. And keep criticising the failings of the Party. Stuart made the point that it is not the SNP which he opposes, but its leadership (and the shadowy advisers, NEC members, administrative office holders and various MPs and MSPs). Personally, I can’t stand Fergus Ewing, but I would still vote for him if I were in his constituency.
@tridentitycrisis
The problem with your analysis is that the SNP aren’t going to deliver a vote, still less independence in any reasonable timescale. Unless you’re content with the gradualist wet-nat prospectus that it will happen *sometime* as long as just keep voting SNP 1&2, keep the faith and incrementally grow support to the fabled 60%.
Of course, they could poll 60% at Holyrood 2021 and it won’t make a blind bit of difference. No British nationalist party will support #indyref2 or give the Scottish Government a S30 order.
Given the above, you could even make an argument that it would be better to vote tactically to try and ensure the SNP DON’T get a majority, but have to depend on a “real” independence party with seats won on the list.
Sadly I don’t think Scots voters have the smarts to do it, so we might as well accept that independence isn’t happening anytime soon, and start building a viable “full fat” alternative to the SNP.
Given the party’s direction of travel, we have nothing else to lose.
Robert Dickson says:
29 September, 2020 at 4:34 pm
I see WGD has written ‘Tories are bad…just one more mandate will change it’ article again.
——————————————————————-
The thing is Robert a lot of what he says is true, I’m as angry and disillusioned with the SNP as anyone but if we want independence we have to be realistic, the SNP are the only hope we have of achieving it in the near future, even Stu agrees setting up another party before the 2021 election is delusional, I think we need to get this Alex Salmond thing behind us and get the party back on track and win big next year otherwise independence will be light years away and none of will see it in our lifetimes
“The thing is Robert a lot of what he says is true”
Indeed it is Graeme. That doesn’t make it anymore palatable to accept what’s happening within the party I’ve supported for over 40 years.
I’m afraid I’m just not willing to overlook the deceptive attitudes, the plotting, the attitudes of elected members toward legitimate voter concerns. Don’t even get me started on the tiny wee squad of GRA nutters who seem to have unbelievable influence with the leadership and within the NEC.
What was done to Salmond (a man I was never overly fond of) is nothing short of despicable and borderline criminality.
So for all those reasons…I will not vote for my party again this side of a referendum. If my small missing vote means that I’ll be lectured (A Twitter prerequisite) on how that means I won’t get that referendum…so be it. There are plenty of other voters out there willing to look the other way for the cause.
I won’t.
Al-Stuart, what have Wee Ginger Dug and Barrhead Boy had said to them aboot the potential ramifications of negative SNP reportage? I know all aboot the tragic and disgusting Grouse Beater case. Genuinely curious, though, at this crazy stage of the game, absolutely nothing would surprise me.
Robert Dickson says: at 4:34 pm
“I see WGD has written ‘Tories are bad…just one more mandate will change it’ article again.”
Ahh, I think I now see the plan… Rather than going down the conventional political or legal routes to progress Scotland returning to re-governing itself, they are going down the relatively lesser known and even lesser utlised topographical route.
For those not aware of this rather novel approach, it is where one uses the ever increasing physical weight of a zillion accrued mandates to exert pressure on the UK landmass till it finally sinks into the sea with Westminster Parliament succumbing to the rising waters and no longer being a seat of power.
It’s a bold move, but it might just work…
Scotland simply has no sustainable future as a nation. if we do not figure out how to get our law officers to stop supporting British nationalism. There was no legal need for Brexit, which will significantly undermine the liberties and quality of life enjoyed by most in Scotland. As we voted to remain, Brexit articulate an absolute rejection of the legal doctrine of “proportionality”. So Westminster has simply lost all respect for the Moral law, and our government has simply rolled over and relinquished the constitutional right for Scots to have legal rights.
So I have to ask the pregnant question, is there anyone in Holyrood and our legal Establishment, who actually understands constitutional law? Or are they all minions of positivist law and dogmatic, neo-colonial, cultural paternalism?
http://www.lawjournals.org/download/119/3-3-16-196.pdf
@ Graeme and Robert
The thing is the Dug ISN’T right tho’ is he? It just isn’t true that the SNP are our only hope, and it’s even less likely they will deliver soon. Unless you term soon at the end of this decade.
Unless there’s a place coup against the gradualists fairly soon, you’re stuck with a party that has accepted we need a S30 granted by Westminster to even have a referendum, having painted themselves into a “Gold Standard” corner that a S30 sanctioned vote is the sole path to independence.
A turd, however lovingly polished, remains a turd.
@Andy Ellis
I get it Andy. Where I digress from your view and agree with his is…the SNP have been and are…the ‘only game in town’
That never bothered me before….but it does now.
I’m afraid I can’t see a solution beyond removal of the current cabal in leadership….and frankly I think that’s a long shot.
Any new party without the heft of a name such as Salmond, is electorally doomed.
In short….we are fucked.
@ Oneliner 3.58 and Lochside 4.22: “Does anyone remember/know?”
Looks like a bit of digging will be required on this one, men.
Glad to see you back here, Lochside. Have missed your frank contributions.
In an nutshell, Britain’s isolation from the international rule of law, has finally brought forth the reality of a neo-fascist state. Which I’m sure will please a number of our legal officers and so-called legal scholars.
https://www.textroad.com/pdf/JAEBS/J.%20Appl.%20Environ.%20Biol.%20Sci.,%204(9)68-72,%202014.pdf
Scotland won’t even exist in fifty years, except as a ‘plaid tea towel’ seaside resort for bored yanks, if Johnson sells the island to his yank countrymen. Our ever-quicker absorption into the grand, vast, insane, unstoppable anachronistic American project will continue far, far faster. We’ll be paying for medical attention, and crying aboot it…even as we guzzle shit American fast food and binge on shit American telly box sets. I may come across as being one-note here, and tiresome, but the existential threat caused to us by the English-American attack nexus has never been explored before. And it’s cos too many people still like the third world Hellhole America, cos they like it’s popular culture, or…
…fuck it. There’s no point, there really isn’t.
“I may come across as being one-note here, and tiresome, but the existential threat caused to us by the English-American attack nexus has never been explored before. And it’s cos too many people still like the third world Hellhole America, cos they like it’s popular culture, or…”
There’s wheens of study an analysis of American cultural imperialism’s impact on our culture and society. Largely in the shape of the British Cultural Studies movement, on this side of the pond anyway, which spearheaded the fight against the legacy of Britain’s colonial history, i.e. an intensely regressive and authoritarian institutional legal culture, and an institutional culture of racist exceptionalism. 🙁
youtube.com/watch?v=Qw9oX-kZ_9k&ab_channel=UkarauF.Kakepare
As I was saying.
Remember, Scots are already an ethnic minority within the British state, and appear to be threatened with becoming a minority in our own homeland, as a result of inward migration from England and a our low birth rate. So please get busy peeps. 🙂
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1057/9781137284662_3
@ tridentitycrisis says:
29 September, 2020 at 3:01 pm
‘We can validly argue that her strategy and tactics might be at fault, but like Ho Chi Minh, her loyalty is genuine. And like Ho, we need to leave her in place while peeling away the dross around her.’
I believed most of this and argued for it. It made the most sense, even if she wasn’t genuine. I know nothing of Ho Chi Minh or that area but interestingly had similar train of thought about Che Guevara and Fidel who was quite happy to encourage Che to continue revolutions elsewhere once he had Cuba. Like it or not lots of yessers and many SNP members still fervently believe in her, and some unionists (relatives of mine included) approve of her handling of covid despite disliking her and are even gradually thinking maybe we should uncouple from the madness of covid disaster down south. It makes sense to keep her in post at least until after the next election.
But then she came out in support of Spear, not only publicly came out in support of Spear, but attacked those calling Spear out. She chose to do that. And to do that for Spear after ignoring so many other instances of real abuse in the last couple of years, yet she had not the understanding of why that might be a dangerous move for her to make for her own standing or for her party at the next election – or she didn’t care. Either of those options shows her lack of judgement is far worse than I thought and is now dangerous. Anyone with half the political savvy any leader of a political party, far less an independence movement, would need should have known such naked unflinching hypocrisy would create blowback. Anyone that out of touch, or heedless, or hubristic is a danger to independence now – for what unwise action might she trip into next? She is likely to lose far more Yes support than she is to bring no voters over with behaviour like that.
There’s a bestseller backstory here to the whole Murrells saga, inc. the degree to which it was a bad choice of husband, or a match made in Heaven, turned to Hell. Can’t wait to read it.
Lochside @4:22
The reason the 2015 election result couldn’t be taken as a mandate for dissolution is that Nicola Sturgeon had been going around telling everyone that the election was “not about independence”.
This actually seemed quite reasonable at the time seeing we’d just lost a referendum.
She repeated the trick in 2017 and we lost a shitload of seats.
Why has my comment with a list of SNP MSPs been deleted?
Ok, fair enough, it was long-assed. But the point I raised with it stands – if not Sturgeon, who should be the next SNP leader and First Minister?
Come on, let’s have some of that formidable strategical analysis. With Sturgeon out, the pool of candidates only contains 46 names. If she goes, what’s next?
@ Alan D
It has the been deleted. I can still see it with a list, unless there was a second?
But no doubt you don’t see my response to your post either? So I’ll repeat it now.
If they insist on being in Westminster and that Westminster’s granting on a S30 is imperative then that is exactly where the leader of the SNP should be.
So why insist they stick to the idea the leader has to be in Holyrood?
* has not been deleted
@Polly I see it again. Weird, it had disappeared for a bit. I apologise for the previous accusation.
I just don’t see how it’s credible to put forward a First Minister who is only a MP in a foreign parliament which we want to withdraw from. Or isn’t even that.
In any case, I’m still waiting for a credible successor to be put forwards. Joanna Cherry was a great option, until she didn’t call the NEC’s bluff and agree to resign(as another SNP MP has), but even that was only plausible in the long term; if she does become a MSP after all, she’d still need a couple of years carrying a ministerial brief to get there.
The same, I’m afraid, goes for any of the other MPs at Westminster.
Is it just me, or is displaying a rainbow flag on social media the modern equivalent of ‘whit fit ye kick wi?’ in contemporary Scottish political circles?
“Compliance is forced less by the state than by elites who form public opinion, and by private corporations that, thanks to technology, control our lives far more than we would like to admit”.
Which brand of totalitarianism citizen, HARD or SOFT?
Which brand is the First Citizeness’s choice?
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/live-not-by-lies-soft-totalitarianism-at-the-art-gallery/
“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one. Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism. Orwell feared that the truth would be concealed from us. Huxley feared the truth would be drowned in a sea of irrelevance. Orwell feared we would become a captive culture. Huxley feared we would become a trivial culture.”
Neil Postman..[Amusing Ourselves to Death]
https://unherd.com/2020/10/would-you-like-endless-pleasure/